Top 10 Mistakes Made by Entrepreneurs

Speaker 0:00 [ on hold music]

Speaker 0:06 Um, so the first question, uh, why did you become an entrepreneur? And if anybody can, you know, go first. Gee?

Speaker 0:17 Uh, well, I started my entrepreneur journey, you know, unconventionally. I actually dropped out of high school when I was 16. So, uh, actually what caused me to become an entrepreneur was a little bit different. My family was going through little hardships, so I was trying to go ahead and help out and, um, you know, basically try it out. Uh, my first job and only job was trying out for McDonald's, and they rejected me. So I realized-

Speaker 0:40 [laughs]

Speaker 0:40 ... uh, hey, there's something called the internet, and, uh, looked at-

Speaker 0:43 [coughs]

Speaker 0:43 ... uh, what was going on. I mean, just the, the euphoria of it, and, uh, fell in love with the whole online advertising space. And, uh, you know, the, the beauty of the internet is you don't need the, uh, the stigma that's attached to kind of business as it was probably 50 years ago. I mean, you can be a 16-year-old in a bedroom and start a business that two years later you can sell for $40 million. And, uh, you know, that's probably wasn't possible 50 years ago. So, you know, partly, you know, survival helped me become an entrepreneur, but on top of that, I, I love building stuff out of nothing. So I'm passionate about it. As long as you have it in your DNA, you can be successful.

Speaker 1:21 So I, I became an entrepreneur pretty much out of necessity. Um, I had been, um, working at a, uh, a public accounting firm, um, been passed over for partnership, um, two times, and I could see that the third was coming up, and the only reason was because I was a woman. Um, and at this point, there were zero women in the partnership, um, across the world. And, um, that just wasn't okay with me. [laughs] Um, but I, um, had butted my head up against, uh, the glass ceiling, uh, at, enough times and, um, at this point had, um, enough visibility across the, um, the whole firm to, to know that-

Speaker 2:05 [coughs]

Speaker 2:07 ... I wasn't personally going to, uh, be able to change this organization from the inside. So, um, I left and, um, turned around and offered them my services, um, for basically the exact same thing that they would have, um, had if I had made, uh, partner within their, um, structure, and, um, asked them to pay me three times as much. Um, they agreed-

Speaker 2:33 [laughs]

Speaker 2:35 ... which was the amazing part, uh, provided me a, um, a, an office and, uh, let me keep my, um, administrative assistant, uh, for the first six months, and I was totally billable from the very, very first day. Um, and that grew into a, um, an organization that had employees across the world. And, um, and then, you know, kind of once you get the bug, it just kind of starts taking over. And so it's like, well, you know, there's a problem here, I can solve it by doing this, and there's a problem there, and I can go solve that by doing this. And, um, I love it.

Speaker 3:18 [coughs]

Speaker 3:21 Yeah. Um, so I, I guess the, the best answer that I can give is that I didn't, uh, decide to become an entrepreneur, and, and I mean that in two ways. One, I'm actually not quite an entrepreneur. I don't really deserve to be called an entrepreneur, unlike all the other people up here. I've, I've always sort of helped entrepreneurs. Um, I joined the LinkedIn and Facebook before we raised venture funding, uh, before the companies were built and so on, so very, very, very early in those companies.

Speaker 3:48 You're a risk-taker.

Speaker 3:49 But, but sure.

Speaker 3:49 [laughs]

Speaker 3:50 Um, but always sort of liked helping entrepreneurs. They used to call that being a venture capitalist, but that means something else today, I guess.

Speaker 3:56 [laughs]

Speaker 3:57 Um, the, um, uh, so the second way in, in which I mean that and, and just really amplifying what Carol just spoke to is I, I think a lot of the time, uh, people who end up being entrepreneurs don't really exactly decide to become entrepreneurs. It's not like being an accountant where you say, "You know, I'm gonna go out and, you know, take a test and get a license and go become an accountant." You know, "I'm gonna go to entrepreneur school and become an entrepreneur." It's a little bit more organic than that a lot of the time, in my experience. Um, and it's just something that almost happens to you or that you get the bug for, like you said, usually because something's broken that you wanna fix or because something doesn't exist that you think should exist, and you just decide, "You know, I'm gonna do it." Um, and that can take lots of different forms. But, uh, I think it's a more organic process than a lot of other so-called career paths.

Speaker 4:49 [coughs]

Speaker 4:52 Um, I actually never aspired to become an entrepreneur. Um, I was working as a research scientist, and I thoroughly enjoyed that. Uh, so I never aspired to become an entrepreneur, working as a manager or working in business in, in the first place. But, uh, the thing that, uh, made an impact on me was that I was actually reading the specification for Netscape 2.0 some ye- some years ago. Somebody may remember the browser Netscape. Uh, but I was reading the whole night, and I was really taken by this, and it had an enormous impact on me. So the next day, I actually quit my job and started my first company. And I had no idea what kind of business idea [laughs] I was going to pursue. Uh, I really didn't have so much of a plan, but it was more this incredible passion I felt for internet. I could just sense that internet was going to be really, really big. I felt it was too big thing, uh, too big of a thing to walk away from. So that's actually why I started.

Speaker 5:47 So, uh, l- in the life of an entrepreneur, now you've been all living the life of an entrepreneur, uh, what is it you like about the life of an entrepreneur? What is it you don't like about the, the, the, uh, the path that you have chosen? Anybody. You can just go in any order you like. Yeah.

Speaker 6:05 I guess what I love about it is, uh, yeah, it's probably goes both ways. I love creating something out of nothing, and seeing that impact, it's almost like you can see it nurture. And, uh, you can see the positive result as quick as you can kind of make it, make it happen. The downside of, of being an entrepreneur is that it's not as, uh, you know, posh and stable as a typical company where you have enough things in place where you don't have to worry about the revenue, you don't have to worry about profitability, you don't have to worry about the individual things, so you end up losing a few hairs almost every day. So part of being in a startup is, uh, you know, you have your good days and you have your bad days, but, you know, you fall down and you get up and you keep going.

Speaker 6:45 So, um, in the corporate world, I used to be called a workaholic. Um, and I'm a pretty passionate person and, um, when I'm on a project or working on, uh, trying to get something done, I pretty much stay focused on, on that. And, um, and that used to be considered a bad thing. And, um, when I became an entrepreneur, everybody just started saying, "Oh, but she, she's an entrepreneur. It's, it's okay." And, um, and, and so I suddenly became [laughs] socially acceptable about the fact that, um, my work life and my personal life had a very, very blurry line.

Speaker 7:27 Blurry line if you're lucky.

Speaker 7:28 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 7:29 [laughs] You know, uh, you know, the best thing about it is that it's amazing and all-consuming and exhausting and crazy, and the worst thing about it is that it's amazing and all-consuming and exhausting and crazy. Um, it, it will become your life if you're lucky and you're, and you're doing it well.

Speaker 7:45 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 7:45 And there's trade-offs in that. But, um, you know, I feel like the last 10 or so years of my life are more or less this vortex of nonstop startup-ness. Um, which is great, I wouldn't trade it for anything, but it's, uh, it, it... I think it almost becomes an either/or decision at some point if you're lucky enough to be facing that problem.

Speaker 8:07 Hmm.

Speaker 8:09 I think for me the biggest thing is c- the dream, you know? That you are, you can allow yourself to dream. You can allow yourself to, you know, you're going to create a company, you're going to have an impact over the world, you know? And it's, at the end of the day, it's really all up to you. I think that's a fantastic luxury, that there's really no limitation. It's all about your capability, your creativity, and your hard work, that end, at the end of the day, hopefully you will be able to accomplish what you set out to do.

Speaker 8:39 But, you know, one of the, um, things that all of us are, are talking about is that, um, we're doing it because we have some passion about what, what we're doing and, and with whom we're doing it. Um, and, you know, one of the things that you'll hear people give you advice about over and over again is, um, stay focused on your passion. And the reason is, if you hate what you're doing, you won't be successful in- as an entrepreneur, because it requires too much extra effort. And you have to really love it to, um, to make the sacrifices that are necessary to be successful.

Speaker 9:15 Y- you also have to be a little bit crazy to enjoy the ups and downs of it.

Speaker 9:18 [laughs]

Speaker 9:18 Because there's a lot of ups and there's a lot of downs along the way.

Speaker 9:21 Yeah.

Speaker 9:21 But I think the-

Speaker 9:22 You get the spikes.

Speaker 9:23 Yeah. And I think the other key thing is, like, if you look at just how the business world works, you know, big companies get to run it, but in a startup you get to change it. And, you know, if you look at, uh, you know, companies like Facebook, Twitter, and just social media in general, that's really transpired the way we communicate. Uh, big companies are now falling onto that. So I think that's the, the highlight of being an entrepreneur is when you can make that big of an impact, and if you're part of that genre, you can really go ahead and see, wow, you know, you're, you're passionate about it, you're making a change, and, and it's, and it's a lot of fun.

Speaker 9:54 I think I perhaps also add, um, that you have a phenomenal luxury when you're entrepreneur, and that is to pick the people you actually are going to work with. And I think that really makes a big difference. You know, one thing is to have this objective or dream or desire, but you can actually work with people that are phenomenally inspiring, people that are fun to hang out with, people that you really care about. And regardless of where you want to go with the company, regardless what you want to accomplish, just a luxury that every day you go to work, you work with people that fundamentally are people that you like and you want to hang out with. I think that is, um, a phenomenal perk, if you can put it that way.

Speaker 10:31 So that's a, it's a great segue [clears throat] to the next question. Um, and so we have some, we have both pure entrepreneurs and we have some, uh, venture capital experience here, so you can answer it from either perspective. Um, do you think it's better in the construction of an entrepreneurial company to partner, to have a partner with, uh, someone that maybe has complementary skills or vision or whatever, or is it better to go it alone?

Speaker 10:58 No, I think it, it, it's a frustrating answer, but it depends on the person.

Speaker 11:01 [laughs]

Speaker 11:01 And, and, and, um, you know, it, it's, uh, there are people who are absolutely solo creators who have a very individual drive, and that's the way they function, and there are, are people who, you know, thrive and need a partner. Um, I think, you know, the funny thing about, about startups is this whole thing is driven by exceptions. You know, you, you, you can, you can create any rule you like. You know, oh, you know, startups where the husband and wife are founders together, that always fails. Well, except for Cisco.

Speaker 11:36 [laughs]

Speaker 11:36 You know, startups where... I mean, it, it, no matter what you pick, there are always exceptions. So it's very hard to generalize out of those things. Um, uh, you know, I've been involved in companies b- where there were kind of co-founders and a founder and co-founders and just a founder, and I think all of them can work. The most important thing if you're starting something yourself, I think, is to ask yourself what's the right thing for you. And just like with a lot of the other things that we've been talking about, it really should be a sort of organic process, I think. If you sit down and say, "All right, today I need to go out and find myself a co-founder," that's probably not gonna succeed.

Speaker 12:13 I, I think, uh, it's all about, you know, to, to, to, a couple ways to look at it. Part of it is finding your dream team, and, you know, y- they're all your co-founding employees, and that's really essential for any startup. Your first five people make it or break it to actually seeing if it's gonna survive. Your first 20 people make it to see if it's gonna be a large company or not. And, you know, when you get to that standpoint, you gotta go ahead and realize who your right partner's gonna be, and partner can be beyond co-founder. It's really VC. And, uh, you know, just a short plug for Stanford. Stanford's actually an investor in G Wallet. So I think we got, uh... You know, w- we picked the right investors for the right reasons, and partly it's because, uh, you know, they can actually add a tremendous value. I mean, if you look at my first company, I actually took no funding whatsoever. I bootstrapped it, uh, mainly because nobody wanted to fund me. I was 16, 17, 18. So no offense on that, but, uh, you know, what I learned on the second time around is when I actually raised venture capital is, uh, it, it matured me as an entrepreneur. It actually, uh, brought a different perspective on how to grow a large company, how to actually sustain certain things that you do, international expansion and so forth. And, uh, picking that right partner is key because if you pick the wrong one, you know, VCs can either add a lot of value or they can take a lot of value out. So that's the, uh, caveat. No offense, but that's the, that's the big, uh, formula into finding the, the right magic in that partnership.

Speaker 13:35 Yep. So, you know, the other part is, um, um, whether or not to do it alone or in a team is also based on, uh, if you need outside money, you know, how, how are you going to get it? And in the venture world, one of the, um, conventions is basically never invest in a single, uh, entrepreneur. Um, and the bottom line is if that entrepreneur gets hit by a bus, you know, what do we have? So if you have at least two, um, people on a team, then... And one person gets hit by a bus, then at least theoretically there's somebody to, um, kind of go forward. Um, and so, um, typically by the time you see them, um, any entrepreneur company coming forth to a venture capital firm, you'll see that they have, um, you know, gotten to a point where they have the, at least the outward appearance of being, um, a, a team.

Speaker 14:35 Which doesn't always work that way afterwards, right?

Speaker 14:37 Right. [laughs]

Speaker 14:38 [laughs]

Speaker 14:39 Um, angels, um, kind of go back and forth and, um, and since I happen to, um, straddle both communities, um, you know, there, there are lots of, um, angels that will, uh, fund a, a single entrepreneur and then tell them, "You have to go find, you know, other co-founders." Um, but...

Speaker 15:04 Try again.

Speaker 15:04 You know, it depends on how much money you need.

Speaker 15:06 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 15:07 I think the question whether you, you need a co-founder or not, I... Perhaps the most important thing is who you choose as co-founder, and in the heat of the moment or in excitement o- o- or actually, uh, hatching an idea, I think that it's easy to find somebody that is your soulmate right there and then, right? They're all excited, "Oh, let's do this," and, you know, and, and, uh, they're all worked up, uh, about it. But if you, in a co-founder, are looking for somebody that can help you build a company long term, I think it's very important to, to dive below the initial excitement, right? What is that, what is that person's long-term contribution, and what is that person's long-term commitment and, and aspirations for the project? And I, when I've seen some startups, uh, fail and, and succeed, I've seen a lot of startup fail because the, the, the founding team was the wrong, uh, founding team, and the peop- and the founding team did not have long-term aligned objectives, and perhaps one was, was want- wanted to work really hard for a long time, and the other one decided to, it was fun for a year or two, but then later, uh, the person was not willing to, to work as hard anymore. And if they didn't then have a shareholder agreement that regulated for whatever reason was going to happen down the road, it creates a lot of tension, right? Then one person that was a part of the founding team has a large stake with the company but is really moving on to do something completely different. So that can create a lot of issues and, and problems for, for a, a company, I think.

Speaker 16:42 And just to, just to add on that, I think it's pretty crucial when you actually find that person or find the, your dream team is to find the right DNA that has the, the hunger because partly even when hiring, you know, my third company, it's, it's, uh, you know, you would assume I would have the pick of the draw in, in, in hiring the best talent, and fortunately there is that pool there, but it's really, really hard when you can look someone in the eye and say, "Is this person hungry or is this person just expecting a great outcome?" Because any startup, uh, regardless of it doesn't guarantee an outcome, and it's really, really hard to go ahead and find out that the consensus DNA is gonna go ahead and do what it takes to make the exit happen or make the positive outcome happen. And probably 1% of the people I interview, I can see that hunger. 99% just don't have it. So it's really finding that 1%, especially in that first five employees, especially when the first 20 employees, because if you don't, uh, you're gonna set yourself up for disappointments and failures.

Speaker 17:39 So, um, this is one of, one of the questions that I personally can relate to. Um, have you ever experienced a black day? Uh, now I describe a black day as all despair and no hope. Uh, and so if you have, could you tell us about it? Sh- share the, you know, kind of anecdotally share it with us, and then tell us, you know, how you dealt with it internally, 'cause it's certainly difficult, and how did you deal with it with your company? So I think everybody probably has a story. It may not, but...

Speaker 18:11 I, I, I think for any successful entrepreneur, you have to have a few black days 'cause they ground you and they also Teach you a lot. That's something that, something school or textbook-

Speaker 18:19 You've had more than one.

Speaker 18:21 I've had my fair share.

Speaker 18:22 [laughs]

Speaker 18:23 Probably more than, more than I wanted. But I think the, the primary one that sticks to mind was I was 16, six months into my business, dropped out of high school, was doing $200,000 to $300,000 a month in revenue, highly profitable, uh, and started hiring the right people. And I didn't have any formal contracts in place with the primary engineer person that I had that was managing the, the, the, the technology. And I just got a threat from them that if, uh, I did not give them a third of the company, they would shut me down. And again, 16 and a half years old, uh, did not have any idea, so I was trying to play poker. And, uh, obviously it didn't work in my favor, and they actually did shut me down. And obviously when you're underfunded, you don't have a board, you're 16, nobody's gonna really take you seriously. So imagine all the odds against you and imagine completely being out of business for a full week. So imagine no Facebook for a week. Imagine your email not working for a week. No, imagine whatever service you're running is gone from the internet, and the internet's a 24/7 business, right? So that happened and it took me a, a week to go, to go ahead and recover from that, uh, until I recovered from the servers, until I got the right people to turn them back on and, uh, you know, it was a mess. It was a mess. And what I realized is that there's a couple things you gotta do. Number one, never keep yourself vulnerable. If you're an entrepreneur, always have a backup plan. Always have someone else that's gonna have your back, uh, or you better make sure you have that skill set on yourself because if you don't, you're gonna have situations like this. Number two, always surround yourself around people that wanna make you win and see you win. And, uh, you know, make sure you have the right rock stars with you because, uh, if you don't have those right people, you're gonna have, uh, uh, you know, so many of these horror stories over and over. And, you know, I learned a lot from that. And I wasn't cheap on employees. I wasn't cheap on any of the structures I needed to do from there on. And, you know, a year and two months after that point is actually when I sold the company for $40 million. So, uh, yeah, that was probably the most black day of any teenager's life, uh, that you can imagine. But, uh, you know, it ended up becoming a positive outcome because I learned a lot from it. And a lot of it, you know, f- from, at least from my entrepreneur journey, came from making these mistakes and actually seeing these disappointments come to life because, you know, they ground you and they teach you a lot, uh, and they prepare you for, for the future.

Speaker 20:44 So I, I think there's probably two kinds of, of black days. There's the black days which Mark defined as days where there's truly all despair and no hope. And I, we've all had those days in our lives in different ways. Um, you know, this is just part of life. So these things happen. I think with startups, um, in my experience, it usually takes one of two forms. Either you've had some great momentum and it's suddenly stopped, or it's just slowed down dramatically and you don't see how you're gonna find your way back out of that, or a people issue. Um, and you know, those take all kinds of forms. But there's also a lot of black days where there actually is some hope in there if, if you look at it closely. Um, and so in terms of how, how you deal with it, um, I think trying to find that, that, that hope and, you know, trying to find the kernel of, of what's gonna enable you to turn this around, whether it's something specific and tactical or something emotional, is really important. Um, you know, a personal example of that, uh, which has been talked about a lot is when we launched the News Feed at Facebook in the fall of 2006. And we had a product that we had a lot of conviction around and felt was a great product, um, which was a great product. We just did a really, really incredibly terrible job of actually launching it and preparing people for it, or not preparing people for it. And the reaction was, you know, unbelievable. Uh, we had 10% of the user base actively protesting against us. 10% of the user base, a million people actively protesting. We got a phone call from the Palo Alto Police Department saying, "Turn it off right now because there's gonna be a protest rally in downtown Palo Alto on Monday and we can't, we don't have the infrastructure to support a protest rally in this city, so you have to stop it." Um, camera crews coming up the windows of the office, peering into the office to, you know, try to get pictures of people. Just a, a really unbelievable amount of, of, of, uh, of, you know, bad feeling and pressure coming from the entire outside world. But what was so meaningful about that moment for me was that was the moment when I fully understood for the first time just how important this was to people, that people cared about this so much that they would get this upset about it in large numbers. I said, "My God, this is, there is something going on here, um, which is really, really rare and really special and, and we have a problem that we need to deal with. But, you know, underneath it all there's something very powerful here that we can harness, you know, if we do it in the right way." So there are situations in life, whether in your startup or in y- the rest of your life, where things are just bad and there, and there just is no, nothing you can do about it but get through it. Um, but a lot of times there's actually something more in those situations. So I'd encourage everybody to at least ask the question, is, is there something else to this story?

Speaker 23:47 I'd actually, um, like to answer the question in a slightly different way. Um, I'm a little bit older than most of the other panelists, so I think I've had probably more black days. But, um, what's gotten me through them is that, um, I picked up the phone and, um, and talked to, um, an advisor. And, um, and the advisor helped me put the, uh, situation in, um, perspective. And, and one of the attributes about a really bad black day is, the reason why we call it black is that things went from gray to black.

Speaker 24:27 The, the w- the black days, they're really black.

Speaker 24:30 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the, I mean, all you can see is bad and negative and, um, and y- your normal personality of positive and seeing the silver lining and all suddenly just left your body. And, um, and it was that ability to reach out and, um, and have perspective brought back in. Um, and it's, um, amazing, when I look back through my life and I l- look at those black days, it was literally less than 24 hours before I was able to reframe that as, this is when the universe changed-

Speaker 25:09 Mm

Speaker 25:09 ... rather than, this is a black day. And, um, I've now gotten to the point where when I hit black days, I'm like, "Oh, the universe is about to change. Okay." Um, and, um, and I actually now try to very actively, um, be that special advisor for our portfolio companies. Um, and, um, I, I hope I'm the one that, um, when they get in trouble, that I'm the one that they call.

Speaker 25:44 Yeah, I think, um, yeah, one example of black day for me would be a, um, complete R&D dead end. So this was this, uh, fingerprint, uh, research, uh, uh, company that I started, Genki. So this was a very ambitious project, and i- initially we thought it was going to be fairly easy. We were going to revolutionalize how fingerprint matching algorithms were done.

Speaker 26:07 [clears throat]

Speaker 26:08 But it turned out to be much, much harder than we thought, and on the way, we actually found a textbook saying that this, uh, was actually not possible. This was theoretically an exciting idea, but in practice this wouldn't work. Uh, but we, of course, that made us more excited, and we wanted to, to go on. But as time goes moving on, we were really not getting any progress. And, and I, and this, we had spent, I think three and a half years, and I spent, uh, several millions in funding this. And it was to the point when the engineers on the team, they didn't believe it anymore, and everyone else was questioning whether it was possible to move forward. And I had a wake-up call one day when one, one of my friends there, which I trust really well, said, "Jørn, you're so stubborn. Why is it that everyone else in the world believes that this is impossible, even your engineers working in R&D team, and still you believe that this is doable?" You know? And then I started to ask myself, am I delusional?

Speaker 27:06 [laughs]

Speaker 27:07 Am I completely irrational? Am I just trying to pursue a dream that is really not ever going to happen? And that was a really tough moment for me. And I was really mulling this over, and I was thinking, the only rational thing actually is to throw in the towel, right? Everyone around me told me that that was going to be the case. But the thing that made me not throw in the towel was that when I was really feeling, uh, really thinking through it, uh, deeply, I realized that if I throw in the towel now, I would never be able to forgive myself. I would always going to continue in my life asking, what if I didn't throw in the towel? And when I came to that realization, I decided that, you know, whatever it takes, okay, I set a- aside this amount of money, and whatever it takes, this amount of money I'm able to set aside. And I'm going to go all the way, all the way to the absolute point where there's no hope whatsoever that this is, is going to, to be successful. And then I'm willing to, to throw in the towel when I know for sure that I have done everything I can. And after that, it wasn't so black anymore because then I wa- then I kind of felt good, then I had a, kind of a plan. And, uh, what happened was that we actually had, had to, to, um, get a completely new R&D team, so I moved the whole R&D to the US. And slowly as, and, and, and securely, we are able to turn around, and we were able to get the breakthroughs that we were hoping for three years later.

Speaker 28:39 Did you ever reach a point where-

Speaker 28:41 [clears throat]

Speaker 28:41 ... you felt like, "All right, I've done everything I can. That's it. I'm throwing in the towel"?

Speaker 28:46 I was very close at that point, right?

Speaker 28:47 [laughs]

Speaker 28:48 But I decided that, I decided, okay, whatever it takes, this is the money that I'm willing to spend.

Speaker 28:53 Right.

Speaker 28:53 This is the, the, th- this is how far I'm willing to push it, and I was thinking about selling lots of things I had and whatever, you know. I'm willing to bring it to this point. And once I had that, made that mental decision, I was kind of ready to go. And then it wasn't that black anymore.

Speaker 29:08 Mm.

Speaker 29:08 I think the, the flip side of that is I think a lot of people when they walk into what they wanna do, they walk in with fear, and they walk in with failure. So, you know, they're basically saying, "Okay, I got this great idea. I wanna go out and work on it." And then they're spending 80 to 90% of their energy on the fact that it's gonna fail already versus that 10% on, okay, maybe it won't fail, right? So I think it's great when you can go and set aside, okay, this is my plan, and this is my point of how far I'm gonna take it, and I'm gonna give it my all.

Speaker 29:38 Mm.

Speaker 29:38 And I'm gonna spend that 100% of my time in making it happen.

Speaker 29:41 Mm.

Speaker 29:42 The flip side of that is that when you ev- when you haven't even started it, when you have nothing-

Speaker 29:45 [laughs]

Speaker 29:45 ... to even go ahead and, and, and, and, and do it, and you're consuming yourself with all this negative energy, where you're like, "Oh, my God, am I gonna fail? And if I fail, my family's gonna think this, my f- friends are gonna think this," and-

Speaker 29:55 Right

Speaker 29:55 ... I think that's really where when you're starting off as an entrepreneur, you gotta clear s- cl- you know, clear your head on that and just walk in that fa- failure is not an option, and you're gonna give it all, your all from day one.

Speaker 30:06 Mm.

Speaker 30:07 Actually, I think that's one of the big characteristics of a, a really successful entrepreneur, is that they actually never recognize that they could fail.

Speaker 30:16 It's part stubborn, part ambition.

Speaker 30:17 Yeah.

Speaker 30:18 Yeah, I, I have a feeling-

Speaker 30:19 Traditional

Speaker 30:19 ... I have a feeling that Bjorn was never actually gonna reach that point where he said, "You know what? I've done everything I can do." [laughs]

Speaker 30:25 [laughs]

Speaker 30:25 [laughs]

Speaker 30:26 No, it w- it was, there was no money left, you know, there was no, nothing left, right? [laughs]

Speaker 30:31 I would go raise some more money.

Speaker 30:32 You know, every, every, every-

Speaker 30:32 No, no, no. It was my money

Speaker 30:33 ... every great entrepreneur that I've ever worked with, when they hit that point, somehow managed to go find some more money.

Speaker 30:40 [laughs] Exactly.

Speaker 30:41 Right.

Speaker 30:41 You know, uh, just to, 'cause I've maybe, I don't know if I've seen more black days than anybody else, but boy, I've seen my share.

Speaker 30:47 [laughs]

Speaker 30:47 Uh, and, uh, over time I've actually come to look at them as opportunities, leadership opportunities. You know, you can-

Speaker 30:53 Hmm

Speaker 30:53 ... you know, everybody looks at the, at you, the leader of the company, and, and, uh, everybody's down and, you know, they're looking at you and, and you're down. Uh, but it's an opportunity to say, let's do something. Let's take action. Let's, you know, create a plan. And if you prevail, uh, you actually build tremendous bonds in that leadership team-

Speaker 31:12 Hmm

Speaker 31:12 ... and, and the team inside the company. So, and, and, you know, if you can kind of step out of the blackness just for a moment and say, "Is there an opportunity here?" There really actually is. I mean, that's, that's kind of one of the things I've seen. Um, but keying off of, uh, Car- Carol's comment, um, the next question I had was, what are the characteristics of an entrepreneur? And what are the... I mean, and there's many. I mean, I, I certainly have, uh, as I teach this, the subject matter, and I've come up with lists of 20, 30, you know, different words that, that... What do you think are the characteristics that are, uh, that are central to the, uh, to the character of an entrepreneur?

Speaker 31:49 [laughs]

Speaker 31:54 All right, I'll start. [laughs]

Speaker 31:56 [laughs]

Speaker 31:57 So I think the details actually vary a little bit by market. Um, but to abstract out from that to what some of, we've all been talking about, um, uh, I think that the most important thing is that it's something that comes from passion for whatever it is that you're doing, whatever it is you're building, whatever it is you're making, whatever problem it is you're solving, whatever new thing it is you're bringing into the world. That can manifest itself in lots of different ways. Um, there are a few people out there for whom that passion is actually the act of entrepreneurship. Um, and those are people who I think generally are called serial entrepreneurs. Um, but for, for those people, it's, it really is like entrepreneurship itself is the thing that they're passionate about. Some people are like that. A lot of people who are great entrepreneurs aren't really like that, and don't even necessarily sort of self-identify as entrepreneurs and just self-identify as, yeah, I'm doing this thing. You know, it's just this thing that, that I, not that even that I want to do, it's just like, yeah, this is just what I do. I ha- I, I do this. I have to do this. Um, and so I do think the details vary a little bit by market, but the best abstraction that I can, or the best example template that, that I can think of for that, um, particularly for the areas that I focus on, is Martin Luther. That's sort of the template that I always hold up for somebody who's a great entrepreneur. And the reason that I say Martin Luther in particular is you, you need to sort of be, you know, just a little bit crazy, completely convicted that, you know, your, your idea and your way is the way the world needs to go. Um, but not sort of to the point of, of irrationality and self-destruction. Um, you know, there's a difference between somebody who's an evangelist and, and a, and a creator, and somebody who's a martyr. Um, and you know, I, I hear people talk about, you know, Joan of Arc as an entrepreneurial architect sometimes. I would argue that's a little too much martyrdom and a little too little impact. Um, so you know, getting the balance on that right is, is very tricky. But, um, it's that just conviction that's completely transcendent to everything and is just something that the, that the person does, must do. It's just, you know, it is what it is. Um, that's sort of the, the architect in my, in, in, the, the archetype in my mind.

Speaker 34:21 I think, uh, one characteristic you gotta swallow really, really hard is you gotta embrace rejection, and sometimes the hardest thing to do as a human being. But, uh, if you can swallow it and understand how to, you know, deal with it, uh, you're gonna probably solve 80% of your problems. And I mean, if you just look at my career path, uh, nobody wanted to fund me at Click Agents. I was doing millions of dollars in revenue and millions of dollars in profit, but nobody wanted to fund me because I wasn't part of the, the dot com, you know, uh, euphoria and in the way things looked at least back in the heyday. And then at Blue Lithium, I had three different venture capitalists, uh, pull away from, uh, doing a deal with me at the last minute. So imagine like doing high fives with your employees and realizing, oh, we're gonna get millions of dollars in for the company, and then getting it pulled. I even had one very famous venture firm in the valley told me that, uh, I was gonna miserably fail at Blue Lithium and that I should, uh, listen to them and, you know, divert my attention to something that's actually gonna work. So, and I wonder where he is now, but, uh, I'd love to have a drink with him. But, you know, if you look at that and then just kind of look at, uh, even the, um, you know, other industries. You know, look at Garmin, that, uh, you know, the founder of that company tried 88 times till he got an investor to actually say yes. And then if you look at J.K. Rowling as, as an author, it's the most respected, most, uh, I mean, it's a billion dollar billionaire author, and she got rejected seven times from her first book. So all of that comes down to the human nature of realizing what your pain tolerance is for embracing rejection. And so long as you can, uh, grow a thick skin, drown out the noise, and focus on that objective, I mean, you will prevail.

Speaker 36:12 Um, I think, I think, uh, the way I look at an entrepreneur is really that entrepreneurship is really a way to express yourself In the same way an artist is creating a, or painting a painting or a composer ri- writes music, I think fundamentally an entrepreneur creates a company, builds a great organization i- in a way to express himself or herself. Um, so, so there's a, an underlying passion and this underlying desire to contribute in some way, to get their voice heard, to, to, to, to add to the world or make the world in, in a tiny w- way, uh, a little better. Um, I think the... Perhaps there are three qualities that, um, I would on the top of my head think of that is important qualities. And I think one is that you are very optimistic, you know? If, if you have a... If you see the world through an, a positive lens, every person you meet is a potential partner or an employee or a pers- or a client, right? If you have a negative perspective, every person you meet is a competitor or some, or, or there's an obstacle towards your su- success. So have that positive mind- mindset I think is hugely, uh, im- important because then you see the opportunities that you will, that, that comes your way that you perhaps didn't even think about initially. The second one is the same thing as, uh, Gi was talking about, the ability to absorb rejections, the ability to absorb, uh, disappointments, setbacks, because it is going to be a long way, it is going to be a way with a lot of setbacks. And to, to withstand that I think is es- essential to be successful as an, an entrepreneur. And perhaps this last thing is a way to impact people around you. Because an entre- and as an entrepreneur, typically you, you have to create a phenomenal team around you for the company to be successful. And you don't need to be the, the, the, the, the, the light of the party. You dont need to have phenomenal people skills, but at least there's something with you that, that you are able to inspire other people. Perhaps you are the best developer that you, that, or you're extremely passionate about what you do or con- you have this strong conviction that other people see, they like, and they want to follow you. So I think there is an element of having ability to, to influence and attract and inspire other people as a key ingredients i- in that. So being positive, absorbing rejections, and, um, and, and affecting people in, in one way or another.

Speaker 38:53 Carol, you have anything to add?

Speaker 38:55 Um, uh, the only thing I wanna just add to this conversation is, um, in, in my mind, there is a gigantic difference between an inventor and an entrepreneur.

Speaker 39:05 Mm. Mm.

Speaker 39:06 And, um, and in Silicon Valley, we tend to blend the two. Um, and, and I think that's a big mistake. There are lots of people who can create interesting technologies, but they can't deliver. And, um, and so for me, the entrepreneurship part shows up in their, um, ability to, um, deliver. And, um, and, and that's a very vague term, but, um, anybody that's been an entrepreneur will understand, um, that that is where the rubber meets the road.

Speaker 39:47 It's a, it's a great point, and I, I think a lot of where that delivery happens, just as Jorn said, is around people, people, people, people.

Speaker 39:54 Mm.

Speaker 39:54 The people you can rally to work with you and help you, the people who you can inspire who are going to be your customers or y- or your users or your other constituents-

Speaker 40:04 Investors

Speaker 40:04 ... the people you're going to inspire to invest in you.

Speaker 40:06 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 40:06 Exactly.

Speaker 40:07 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 40:07 Um, that, that ability to not just create something, but to inspire others with, with your creation, I think is-

Speaker 40:14 Mm

Speaker 40:14 ... the thing that propels you forward from that initial ideation to actually succeeding.

Speaker 40:19 Well-

Speaker 40:19 I think entrepreneurship is kind of like, it's like an art, and there's probably three stages of it. And I mean this in, in, in wholeheartedly. There's probably the first stage where you're the creator and you're the inventor and you're trying to prove a concept. The second stage is you're the manager. You're actually trying to go ahead and scale the company. You're actually trying to build. You're actually trying to go ahead and prosper in that regard. And the last part is you're the, the executor. You're actually executing against, uh, a potential outcome, and that itself is a different strategy. So all three require a completely different approach, and it's up to you as an entrepreneur to see if you can mold yourself as the company grows so you know exactly how to go ahead and act. Uh, 'cause you can't act like the creator when you're already at a company that's already doing $100 million in comp, uh, uh, in revenue and you're trying to go ahead and have a potential exit. You gotta be a completely different CEO. So partly it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, uh, the problem that, that I see in most entrepreneurs is that they get way too emotional with certain things, whether that is owning certain amounts or controlling certain amounts. But I think the best thing about being an entrepreneur is being able to adapt to the different changes that you're able to do in the various stages of entrepreneurism.

Speaker 41:29 On the other hand, though, um, I, I wanna make sure that, um, people are clear about the fact that, um, entrepreneur does not necessarily mean founder. I mean, there are lots of people that were extraordinarily entrepreneurial at Google or at Intuit or at Cisco and at Yahoo. I mean, pick the company. I mean, being entrepreneurial is a state of mind. It, it isn't, um, you know, the fact that you're the, um, the founder.

Speaker 42:02 How, how do you, uh, in this character, uh, issue, how do you feel about, uh, you know, risk-seeking, risk avoidance kind of thing? Would... A lot of people describe entrepreneurs as, um, as risk-seeking. Do you, how would you, how would you comment on that?

Speaker 42:19 Um, so I, I, I think your, um, a- ability to live in a risky environment, um, is pretty important, um, as an entrepreneur. Um- You know, the, the whole concept of, you know, can you sleep at night, um, becomes a, a, a big one. And, and, um, if you're gonna put your health at risk, um, being an entrepreneur probably isn't the right, uh, thing for, for you. Um, and you know, there are, uh, times in your life where you can't afford to take, um, a risk. You have too many other individuals in your life that are, um, uh, depending on you. Um, and, and so I think there's some, you know, kind of reality checks that you n- need to, um, have about, um, your, your risk levels. Having said that, um, m- most of the, uh, entrepreneurs that have been incredibly successful are the ones who took risks at extremely inappropriate times in their lives. And, um, and so to [laughs] Matt's point, you set a rule down and somebody's gonna think of an, uh, an exception to it, so.

Speaker 43:35 Sure.

Speaker 43:35 Um, but, but risk, being willing to live with risk-

Speaker 43:40 Right

Speaker 43:41 ... is, is a big one.

Speaker 43:42 That's a big distinction. The distinction between being okay living with risk, being risk-tolerant, and being risk-seeking.

Speaker 43:49 Yeah.

Speaker 43:49 You know, I think it's, it's s- kind of crazy to be risk-seeking, per se. I think great entrepreneurs tend to be change-seeking, and when you're trying to change things, risk is inherently a part of the process. You have to be okay with that. Um, but i- people who sort of seek out risk for the sake of seeking out risk, maybe you'll get lucky. [laughs] Um, but that, that doesn't seem like the, you know, the, the way to make things happen to me.

Speaker 44:16 Actually, you know, in, in, in many cases, I think, um, especially when they're starting up the company, you don't see the risk.

Speaker 44:23 Yep, absolutely.

Speaker 44:24 I mean, you're so clear about your vision-

Speaker 44:26 Right

Speaker 44:26 ... of the future-

Speaker 44:27 Exactly

Speaker 44:27 ... that the, um, to, to Jee's point, failure isn't an option.

Speaker 44:32 It's blinded by the vision, right?

Speaker 44:34 Yeah.

Speaker 44:34 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 44:34 Um, so yeah.

Speaker 44:36 But I, I agree with that, you know, because a lot of times when you talk about entrepreneurship, a lot of people talk, talk about risk or taking risk, and there's something with that that rubs me the wrong way because I don't think necessarily entrepreneurs are taking risk. At least I don't look at myself as taking risk. On the, on the contrary, I feel that I continuously try to minimize risk. Uh, but what I do try to do is pursue opportunities I see. But I don't look at myself as a risk-taker. I'm willing to live with risk. I'm willing to tolerate or to live with risk.

Speaker 45:07 Right.

Speaker 45:07 But I'm, I, I'm not a risk-taker. I minimize risk for what e- w- whatever ability, uh, I'm capable of, of, of, uh, doing, you know? So it's more, I think that's a big distinction.

Speaker 45:17 But, but, but in reality, um, the, the fact that you're willing to, um, operate without a net-

Speaker 45:24 Yeah

Speaker 45:24 ... by definition-

Speaker 45:27 I think I-

Speaker 45:27 ... moves you into the risk kind of-

Speaker 45:29 Yeah, perhaps, but, but more risk-tolerant. Once you say that-

Speaker 45:32 Yeah

Speaker 45:32 ... you are a risk-taker, I feel like you're, you're stepping over a, over a line-

Speaker 45:36 Right

Speaker 45:36 ... that I'm not comfortable, uh, uh, associating myself with.

Speaker 45:39 Right.

Speaker 45:40 Well, I also think there's two types of risks that entrepreneurs take. I mean, there's also two types of entrepreneurs. Uh, I'm, uh, you know, there's a type of entrepreneur that says, "Okay, I'm gonna change the world, so I'm gonna go with the crazy idea, and nobody's done it before. And I'm gonna try to go ahead and prove myself right."

Speaker 45:56 I love those.

Speaker 45:58 I'm not one of those. Uh-

Speaker 45:59 [laughs]

Speaker 45:59 [laughs] Uh, I, I'm one of the, I'm the, I'm on the second category, which is basically saying, "Okay, I recognize that there's enough people doing this, and I understand this may be a crowded space, uh, but I'm gonna copy exactly what they're doing. But I'm gonna go ahead and catch up to them by executing them better, and then I'm gonna innovate." And if you kind of think about that, that's how majority of all the successful companies in Silicon Valley have, have actually started. I mean, if you look at, you know, kind of Friendster and MySpace, you know, MySpace was just copying Friendster, but it could scale, right? And then if you kind of look at MySpace and Facebook, I mean, Facebook, yeah, is very different now, but it had the same functionalities at a certain point, too. And, you know, that's really where I think the, the, m- my recommendation to entrepreneurs is that don't put yourself... I mean, again, I know you love the first category, but I, I kind of fear that if people try to go ahead and prove something that haven't been proven before, you're walking into a, a, a room that is gonna already disqualify you. So you know, that, that-

Speaker 47:01 So some, some of that happens with, um, depending on industry. So I mean, for instance, the area that we've made the most amount of money is in medical devices, bar none. Um, and, um, and the reason why our companies have been, um, successful and have made us a lot of money is 'cause they did something totally new and different.

Speaker 47:21 Hmm.

Speaker 47:22 And, um-

Speaker 47:24 I like that, too.

Speaker 47:25 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 47:25 [laughs]

Speaker 47:26 So I mean, you know, uh, it, it-

Speaker 47:28 Sure

Speaker 47:28 ... there, there's room for both.

Speaker 47:30 Sure. But, but I think there's, all I'm saying is there's a lot of risk in putting something in a category that hasn't been proven. I mean, just based on enough data that supports, you know, new investments that haven't been proven versus going after a category that is already out there and you're competing against it. There's always gonna be a leader. There's always gonna be a, an incumbent. That mean, that's just the nature of business. All I'm saying is that, at least for me as an entrepreneur, I reside in the latter, where, uh, I'm not gonna take that risk of coming up with something completely different, uh, and, uh, you know, be left kind of-

Speaker 48:04 Okay

Speaker 48:04 ... you know, cold shoulder-ish, uh, in the marketplace versus kind of going in with it-

Speaker 48:08 Yeah

Speaker 48:08 ... and, you know, replicating something and then innovating it by out-executing them and, you know, after I've reached a certain point.

Speaker 48:16 John?

Speaker 48:16 But I think when it comes to risk, I, I, sometimes I'm not sure if I'm understand all the discussion either because what are you risking, right? Uh, there's an under- underlined assumption that there's sp- something specifically that you're risking, and I think that people have different aspects of- What is worthwhile risking or what is worthwhile not risking, right? So the, so if you don't have a good understanding of what you're risking, then the discussion becomes very abstract, too. And I, and I, the way I look at it is that you, you have a certain amount of time on this planet. Tomorrow, you can be hit by a truck. [coughs] And do I, do I want to live my life doing something that I don't feel fulfilled with? [coughs] That's a bis- big risk that you live the whole life and being miserable, right? So, so it, it depends a little bit on what it is that you really want to do and what you are willing to risk, and, uh, in that perspective, I think, yeah, I understand that risk is associated with entrepreneurship, but I don't like the notion risk is put on a, a entrepreneur saying that this person is a risk taker.

Speaker 49:19 Let, let, let me move to one more issue of this entrepreneurial character that I think, uh, is, is, uh, interesting to discuss. Um, you know, in my thinking over the years about, uh, what motivates entrepreneurs, I've kind of come with three categories: change the world, build a great company, get rich. Um, so-

Speaker 49:38 All three's okay.

Speaker 49:39 Yeah, so, so w- what is the... [clears throat] I think all three's fine, but some people are driven more by one than by others. So how would you describe, you know, those three words for yourselves in terms of how would you, how would you kind of slot yourself or profile yourself relative to those things? And do you think those are relevant to entrepreneurial motivation?

Speaker 49:59 I mean, I would say, uh, I mean, I, I never did anything for the money, and I think that anybody that walks into an entrepreneurship endeavor [coughs] to get rich has already failed. And, uh, I mean, monetary exits, cash that you make is really comes after all the hard work, and you can't even think about that from day one. And if the minute you do, you're gonna start making, you know, short-term decisions that are gonna go ahead and affect your business, uh, uh, decisions that you should be making. So for me, it's always, uh, been about being successful and, and proving myself that I can do it again and that I know the formula. And so long as I know the formula, I wanna challenge myself for the next opportunity. And, you know, sure, the money that comes along, it's like keeping score, but that's about it.

Speaker 50:43 A- a- I think the, the change the world idea, um, or variance on that, like for me, the way I would articulate it personally is sort of, you know, be involved with the most interesting things I can be involved with, um, is that's it. Um, and all the best entrepreneurs I know tend to look at the building of a great company and the making of a lot of money as means to the end of accomplishing the goal that they're trying to accomplish. You know, the idea that I want this to be structured as a company because a company is the best vehicle to accomplish what it is that I'm trying to accomplish. If there were a better vehicle, I would use that other vehicle instead, but this is the best vehicle, so that's what I'm gonna do. Um, that's the mentality that resonates most with me, and I think, you know, can get you to, to the biggest and, and most exciting places.

Speaker 51:38 I think changing the world is such a big term.

Speaker 51:42 Yeah.

Speaker 51:42 But I think definitely, uh, there is a part of me that perhaps try to contribute somehow in my little way. Um, so I think, and, and the reason why I think that is important because I think everyone, you're looking for some kind of meaning or purpose with what you do, that you actually see that what you do has a positive effect. And that I think is a important part of, of, of my drive. In addition to that, I think it is, going back to what I talked about earlier, working with people that you really care about, working with people that you're really passionate about, and indirectly, that it's really building an organization that you, that you take pride in.

Speaker 52:22 Carol, do you have anything to add?

Speaker 52:23 So, um, you know, I think the, um, the kind of the core motivation and where the company is, um, in its growth process is gonna, uh, motivate where the money sources are coming from. Um, and so if you're, um, trying to change the world, but there's no clear, uh, path to making money, the type of investor that you're going to attract is going to be very different than, um, one that you come in and say, you know, "Here's, here's the plan. I'm gonna do this. This is gonna happen, and, um, and you're gonna get your money back in three years at, you know, X percentage." Uh, having heard that speech a lot of time, I'd never believe it. But, but the point is that it, it attracts a different type of, um, investor. And, um, and so part of the game, um, and, and one of the things that craters any startup, um, is not being properly capitalized. Um, and so part of the game is figuring out where are the right pockets of, uh, of money for your startup. And, um, I think, I think you need to understand when do you need to at- um, attract money because of passion? When do you need to, um, attract money out of greed? Um, and, um, and where do you need to, um, at- attract money out of, um, the, uh, philosophy of, of building a, um, a bigger, stronger company?

Speaker 54:05 So, uh, one of the questions I think, um, is generally interest, certainly to the students that, uh, I teach is, where do great ideas, great insights come from? And if you're willing to share, what's hot now? [laughs]

Speaker 54:25 I, I would say, uh, social gaming and social media is probably from a sector, probably one of the, uh, interesting sectors, uh, that, uh, that I see right now. I mean, hence I'm in it. Uh, but in terms of ideas and execution, I mean, part of my philosophy is that idea, when you get it, is 1% of the journey. 99% of it is all execution So I know a lot of people that get wound up because they see a hot idea or a hot sector, and, uh, you know, they basically... I mean, I, I even get crazy emails saying, "Hey, I have the next trillion dollar idea."

Speaker 54:56 [laughs]

Speaker 54:57 I don't even know if that idea exists, but still, in terms of people's mindset, they think this idea is gonna make them rich or this idea is it, that's it. That's, that's 1% right there. You know, 99% of how you actually execute from starting a company, making it into something, and going through the ups and downs that you're gonna have to go through, is really the outcome that you should focus on.

Speaker 55:20 Yeah, I, I refuse to even answer the question because, um, y- it's not what anybody should be thinking about if they're thinking about starting something. You need to be thinking about, you know, what you wish were hot tomorrow, not what's hot now. Um, the, uh, you know, my job is to spot what's hot now before anybody else spots what's hot now, but that's a different topic. That's being a venture capitalist. Um, you know, the entrepreneur's job is to do the thing that they wanna do.

Speaker 55:50 Mm.

Speaker 55:51 Um, and so I w- I wouldn't worry about what's hot now. Actually, the o- the, the only extent to which I'd worry about what's hot now is if you really wanna do something, and you look and you say, "You know, this is really hot right now," that's probably a bad sign. Um, but beyond that, just forget it. Don't, don't, don't, you know, don't look at it as a positive or a negative. Just ignore it. Just ignore everything. Just do, do what you wanna do.

Speaker 56:16 Mm.

Speaker 56:17 Uh, I would strongly support what you are saying, Matt. I, I totally agree, and I, I think that sometimes there's a little bit of a fever that we are chasing what is hot, you know? And, and, and that... I think that is a, a big mistake you do, that you try to come up with something that is hot. You know, it must be something that you're passionate about. It must be something that you, you can really see that this will have an impact, that this will really create value. And, and where to look, I ha- you know, I have no idea really, but, uh, I love internet. I think internet is, is fantastic, and particularly when you think about combining that with mobile phones. And I think that... Well, some people say that all innovation on the internet is done. Some people say that so- social media and, and social network is the last big innovation on the internet. I don't think that's true whatsoever. I mean, we are the first generation that grew up with computers. Internet has just come up, uh, in, in the la- late f- uh, in the last few years. Uh, social media didn't come, uh, until one, one year ago. So within that space, there are just phenomenal and phenomenal opportunities to, to come with innovative products and services, and I'm sure that, uh, we just scratch the surface of what we, what, what we pop- uh, what, what we're going to see going forward.

Speaker 57:32 Carol.

Speaker 57:34 Um, you know, there, there are so many, um, problems in the world. Um, and, you know, kind of the core areas that tend to trigger people's passion is that they're trying to solve a problem or, um, they're, um, fantasizing a, um, a different world. Um, so, um, y- you know, the current, um, state of the transportation industry drives me nuts. A- anybody that can do beam me up, Scotty, I'm like so there.

Speaker 58:05 [laughs]

Speaker 58:06 Um, you know, I'm, um, um, concerned about, um, health, and, um, uh, I know that there are, like, s- several core things that I need to do. Exercise and sleep, um, and w- and what I eat are the, um, three, you know, big things that'll impact my health. So, um, you know, anybody that can make that easier and simpler and, you know, I can eat anything I want and never put on a pound would be fabulous.

Speaker 58:36 [laughs]

Speaker 58:37 I mean, you know, you could... I mean, you start working through, um, you know, what's wrong in the world. Where are the big problems? Where are the big trends? I mean, we have a huge bunch of people, um, that are, um, crossing the 50, um, year old, um, line, and the world is different when you're 50. And, um, and so how do we meet those needs? Um, we have a, um, a younger generation that, um, is moving into a global world, not a village world. Um, how does that impact? I mean, pick an area and, um, and you can discover that there are problems, and the minute you discover the problems, you start fantasizing about how to solve it and bingo.

Speaker 59:27 You know, pe- people talk about this idea of changing the world a lot. I think a lot of the times what they really mean is, is changing your world, you know? Um, the really great things that people create and build and turn into big companies, I think they usually come from very personal places.

Speaker 59:46 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 59:47 Um, and so, you know, you, you have to sort of find what's personal for you and what is it about your life that you wanna change, and I think it, it could be subtle, but in lots of ways, um, that extension is, is, is the driver for people. Um, when you start thinking about problems at sort of grand levels of abstraction, I think you risk getting into sort of dangerously unemotional territory. This is hard, right? It's really hard to do this. You have to really, really, really wanna do this all day and all night, seven days a week for the next... Assume it's gonna take 20 years, you know? And completely disrupt and interfere with and screw up the rest of your life. So it better be really, really, really, really personal. So it's great to wanna change the world, but I think a lot of times when people talk about changing the world, they're really talking about changing themselves and, and changing their world and changing the world around them. Um, and that may sound selfish, but, you know- Emotions are important.

Speaker 1:00:45 Yeah, we, when, when we talk, when I, when I talk about it in class, I always talk, I use the word authentic, that there's an authenticity.

Speaker 1:00:51 Yeah.

Speaker 1:00:51 That great ideas come from personal experience, the ability to be unhappy with something, see an opportunity to change it, and apply that, and then that's, you know, that, that yields, uh, ideas. And on the, on the what's hot now question, which I, you know, al- always ask, it's, uh, kind of like the, the, the Groucho Marx quote, which is, you know, "Who'd wanna be a member of a club that would have me?" Um, and you know, what's hot now is, if I knew that, I would be sitting, you know, I'd be out doing it instead of it, sitting here talking about it, right? [laughs] Um-

Speaker 1:01:21 But, but, you know, the, the thing that I wanna make sure that, um, that at least I'm communicating is that, um, entrepreneurship is not limited to technology. Entrepreneurship happens in all walks of life and in all business segments. And, um, there are investors that will, um, support that. Um, we happen to have a particularly high concentration of technology-based investors here in Silicon Valley, but that doesn't mean that that is the world. And, um ...

Speaker 1:01:57 Yeah, they built Starbucks on a great cup of coffee, and there's nothing high-tech [laughter] about that, so.

Speaker 1:02:01 Who'd have thunk?

Speaker 1:02:01 Let's, uh, we have five minutes left. Uh, let's open it up and see if there's any questions from the audience for all or any particular panelist. Any-

Speaker 1:02:08 You spoke about surrounding yourself by great people. When you go back sort of to startup mode, you don't have much credi- credibility behind you. Not many people know you. You have this, what you think is a great idea. How do you actually hire these A players? Like, what are some practical sort of steps from the knowledge you know now of how you would go out and try to influence these people to come on board?

Speaker 1:02:32 Well, there's, there's probably, uh, there's two categories of rock stars. There's the first category of the, the founding employee sweat equity rock star, and then secondly, the rock stars you hire at a second stage of the company. I think you're asking about the primary stage. And just a quick story on my side is that when I started Blue Lithium, uh, I actually, uh, found a company in Belarus, of all places, through the internet. And, uh, you know, they had a great technology. I actually went down there, visited them, and they were just scrappy entrepreneurs building code in, you know, an apartment building with, you know, next to about 18 different computers. And I love that. I love the, the scrappiness, the bootstrapness. And, uh, you know, when I looked them in the eye and said, "What do you want for your company?" And they basically said, "A half a million dollars." And I said, "Okay, how about if I can give you more than that?" And when I can go ahead and what... Well, in a different way. And the way was, uh, you know, for them to buy into my vision of what I wanted to create. And, you know, you gotta understand, when you're trying to look for that rock star, you gotta have people that wanna take that risk. And when they take that risk, they're gonna go ahead and, you know, work their ass off for that, and when they do, they'll deliver it. And that, that risk where they ended up taking a stake in my company rather than, so wallpaper rather than a half a million dollars, three years later ended up becoming $15 million for them. So when you look at it from that context, there are enough people out there that are hungry. It's not that many, but there's enough out there. And when you can find them, uh, you know, everybody's after the same journey, and everybody's after the same goal.

Speaker 1:04:05 So I, I totally agree with, with a lot of that. One thing that I would, uh, amplify and give a little bit different view on is, um, there's lots of different ways to be hungry. And some of the ways to be hungry can be very destructive for your company. Some of the ways for people to be hungry can be incredibly powerful for your company. Um, I think you really wanna find people not who are low ego, which is what people always talk about, but rather who have a strong ego and a desire to sublimate that completely into what it is that the company is doing. Um, which is a different thing, but is very important distinction. So how do you do that? Um, you have to be really careful to find people who are... You know, no one will ever be as, as deeply passionate about what the company is making as the founder, perhaps. But you need to find people who are really, really passionate about what the company is doing, as opposed to the fact that the company is hot, or the company is, you know, in an interesting space, or the company has funding from good investors or whatever. Um, that's hard to do. I think there's some tactical ways you can do it. Um, you know, at some of the companies I've been involved with, we've had people take title deflation on coming into the company, which is a somewhat contrarian thing. A lot of management theorists say that's a very bad thing to do. Um, but actually, I think it's a very good litmus test for why is this person here? Why are they coming here? Um, there's lots of other ways you can do that too, but the, those subtle differences can have a huge impact on how things go.

Speaker 1:05:39 I think we, I think we're actually a little past our time, but let me say thank you to all the panelists. I assume that some of you will be available for some people to come over and say hello to afterwards. Thank you very much. [audience applauds]