10X: Leadership in Innovation | Kamal Haasan | Talks at Google

Aparna Chennapragada 0:02 So Mr. Kamal Haasan absolutely needs no introduction, but I'm going to do it anyway, uh, because I'm a huge fan. Um, you know, he's an actor, he's a screenwriter, he's a lyri- lyricist, director, producer, choreographer, dancer, singer, um, across South Indian and Bollywood movie industries. And the other thing that's amazing is he's won several, uh, film awards, including, um, Filmfare Awards, 19 Filmfare Awards, um, four National Film Awards, and with seven submissions, he's starred in the highest number of films submitted by India in Academy Award foreign language film. [audience cheering] But I think the most interesting and, uh, you know, the... to, to us as, uh, Googlers, the most powerful thing that, uh, Kamal Haasan embodies is this love of technology and innovation. He's a 10X thinker, as we like to say, and he's a pioneer in bringing technology to Indian cinema. Uh, be it the, uh, first Indian movie in digital format with Mumbai Express, or, uh, bringing Auro 3D sound in Vishwaroopam, uh, he's truly been a pioneer. And one of the things I want to call out today is that he's here not to promote any specific event or not to promote any specific movie, but really as a thought leader in the industry. So I look forward to hearing him. [audience cheering] So I'll start off, uh, speaking of 10X, I'll just start off with a little 10X experience myself. Um, I was 10 years when I first saw this movie, uh, and then I s- probably saw it easily 10 more times, and then I, uh, watched songs from this movie easily 100 more times. I'm Telugu, and I'm talking about the movie Sagara Sangamam, um, where-

Kamal Haasan 1:48 [cheering]

Aparna Chennapragada 1:49 ... and, um, where the song was, uh, Takitata Timi. Um, and this morning, you know, and b- before this, I played it 10 more times. [laughs] I just wanted to let, uh, folks know that. Um, uh, with that, I want to actually start off, given this audience, um, we are all about building products, building products that millions of users love, which if you look at it, that's what you've done. You've done it over many years, over many movies, many times. So I want to kind of get your sense of how... want to pick your brain on the creative process, right?

Aparna Chennapragada 2:20 When you think of a movie like Nayagan or Guna or Hey Ram, where do you get that initial spark of inspiration?

Kamal Haasan 2:27 I, I get terribly scared. Hi, everybody. [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 2:31 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 2:34 I jump into fork and knife. [laughs] When appetite is good, then you jump straight to the act. Um, I get terribly concerned when people ask me, w- how do you do market research?

Aparna Chennapragada 2:49 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 2:53 I, I don't.

Aparna Chennapragada 2:54 Yeah.

Kamal Haasan 2:54 Th- that's the thing. There's something much deeper and bigger than the... It's, it's, it's, it's your mind, what you love most. Because if you truly believe that you're part of a crowd, then your assumption, your need, your, uh, your passion will be emulated by the crowd.

Aparna Chennapragada 3:20 Mm.

Kamal Haasan 3:21 Because you are one of them. You, you've learned your, your accent, your, your weaknesses, your anger, your food taste. It's all from one place. So it's, it's confusing for me to go compute. If I had done that, I would have been in school. I'm a dropper.

Aparna Chennapragada 3:40 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 3:42 I, I couldn't, uh, go that route. But instead of going on an outward travel, I always travel inward. It's a bigger space. Everybody's space is bigger than what they can possibly traverse with available transport. When you travel inside, it's, it's fantastic distances you can cover, and you don't even have to be there, but you'd have been there before Neil Armstrong. That's what Jules Verne did.

Aparna Chennapragada 4:17 Mm-hmm. In his mind. Yeah.

Kamal Haasan 4:19 He s- he specifically described what almost 80% right, the way the rocket launch took place and how the capsule fell back into the sea. So he's done the travel much, much before America even thought of it. The government, I mean.

Aparna Chennapragada 4:42 Yeah.

Kamal Haasan 4:42 So that's what I meant, that I... When you make a product, you go with that feeling. People call it gut. Pe- some say mind, some say manasa. There's this c- constant, uh, trouble when they say manas in, in, in our language. They touch here. That's not where it is. It's here.

Aparna Chennapragada 5:04 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 5:06 But there's, there's this confusion, location, address confusion-

Aparna Chennapragada 5:11 Wrong buffer

Kamal Haasan 5:11 ... which, yeah, I, I, I live between the two ears. It seems like a narrow place to live in, but it's a, it's a lot of Lebensraum, as Hitler would like to call it, living space.

Aparna Chennapragada 5:24 Yeah. Yeah. And when you, uh... I guess related to that, right? So when you c- have this, you know, gut, um, and as you develop the idea, right, uh, can you think of, can you share any anecdotes of where the... where you landed was completely different from where you started, right?

Kamal Haasan 5:39 Well, that, that happens with every film, you can say. I wanted to m- make a thriller when I started off with Hey Ram. It was basically a thriller I wanted to make. It's like Day of the Jackal.

Aparna Chennapragada 5:57 Mm.

Kamal Haasan 5:58 I started there, but then suddenly when I did research, I thought, it's very trivial To go that route, I, I thought I would make a film that at least I won't forget. But there are people who will join me in saying they can't for- forget the film. It's not one of those commercially, uh, I, I mean, um, blockbuster box office record-breaking film, but it is... it got me a special respect. But then business is not all about respect.

Aparna Chennapragada 6:33 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 6:37 So it started off, probably I started off right, and went towards something that will make- uh, which will live longer than I do. The bottom line might die before I die because I might break it with another hit.

Aparna Chennapragada 6:52 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 6:54 But these are things that might survive even me, so I'm not unhappy about it. And, um, if you take... Le- let me talk about Pushpak.

Aparna Chennapragada 7:07 Yeah.

Kamal Haasan 7:07 When Sangeetham came with the idea, he had, um, a film called... It, it, it was fully there in his mind. It was called Advaita. The duality, non-duality. No, not duality, but the non-duality of it. So, um, and it was a serious film about rich and the poor and, uh... I, I said, "I'm not part of this film if it is going to be this way." Because it'll die a death with sarangi playing in the back.

Aparna Chennapragada 7:42 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 7:43 It'll become an art film. The shots will be lengthy and people will, will... You can hear people changing positions in the seat.

Aparna Chennapragada 7:52 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 7:53 I don't wanna be a part of that film because that's how... And he has tremendous sense of humor, and he laughed. And it's actually asking somebody to, to do a total 360 change on-

Aparna Chennapragada 8:07 Yeah

Kamal Haasan 8:08 ... what he thinks is his favorite subject, but he did it. And that was a great writing experience for me. People always ask him [laughs] , "Well, what do you write in a silent film?"

Aparna Chennapragada 8:19 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 8:21 That's why you have to write a lot and rehearse a lot, because every detail will have to be perceived by the audience, understood by the audience. It's a cognizance that you'll have to forecast, foresee, and also not come right on the nose and make it-

Aparna Chennapragada 8:40 Obvious

Kamal Haasan 8:41 ... obvious. So that was a, a, a great experience. The way Appu Raja was-

Aparna Chennapragada 8:47 Mm-hmm

Kamal Haasan 8:47 ... Appu Rusadar was born-

Aparna Chennapragada 8:50 Yeah

Kamal Haasan 8:50 ... was I take all my ideas to my mentor first, Mr. KB. "I have an idea." "Okay." It's like Martin Luther King who says, "I have a dream." I keep going to him. [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 9:01 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 9:01 "I have an idea," and he would sometimes encourage it, sometimes craft it. Sometimes it's made my career better, but he always chiseled it-

Aparna Chennapragada 9:11 Chiseled

Kamal Haasan 9:11 ... to a better, uh, viewable shape. So when I took this idea of playing a short man for the film, he just looked at me, sighed, and said, "Relax. What are you eating nowadays?" [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 9:26 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 9:28 "Don't be hyper like that. It's not practical. Why would you want a filmmaker to suffer? You are good enough a suffering [laughs] for a director like me. Why would you want him to go into this? I can't even think of the mind-boggling, uh, complications that will come out of it." I said, "No, it can be done." "No, I will write a small scene for you. You can play a short man and be done with it."

Aparna Chennapragada 9:51 In that scene. [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 9:53 And I did it. And that was the... And I was even more convinced. I went to him again and said... I begged him, but he, he was not sure for that. So it fell into Raj Kamal's lap, and, uh, that was before CG. None of the effects that you see in Appu Raja were, uh, done, uh, post. It was already done in camera. And all... [clapping] And another thing about the film is I told them I know how to make the dwarf work. So I knew two tricks, but you can't pull off a whole film with just two tricks. But I was so excited wanting to try it. I, I didn't tell the crew that I didn't know any more except the two tricks.

Aparna Chennapragada 10:51 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 10:52 So it was unbelievable. It's the biggest con game I pulled on my own-

Aparna Chennapragada 10:57 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 10:58 ... whole crew. And it came to me. I wasn't cheating anybody except myself. So [laughs] well, it came to me the first 15 days of a shoot, which is a lot of money, was crap. Because I suddenly realized I was thinking only about how to play short-

Aparna Chennapragada 11:15 Yeah

Kamal Haasan 11:15 ... and had left screenplay story to somebody else, so it was not working. So I reworked it with another writer for a month. And, uh, Appu was supposed to have a small role because it's difficult. I, I put it on the head and said, "Appu is the hero." Which means we'll break our back every day and, uh, we will shoot the scene and, um, they'll take it to the lab and we can't move on to the next shot. Till they come back from the lab we'll be looking at the car and, um, as they drive in somebody will have the thumb down like this.

Aparna Chennapragada 12:06 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 12:07 Say, "Okay, break for lunch and we're doing it again," and we'll go back again. We got so upset with it, I came up with another idea of just taking a clip of it and doing the washing and printing of the, uh, on the spot-

Aparna Chennapragada 12:22 Yeah

Kamal Haasan 12:22 ... and so that we can see whether it works or not. And that's how... So much so that towards the end of the film, we started shooting inside the laboratory, film laboratory.

Aparna Chennapragada 12:32 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 12:33 [laughs] Because we-

Aparna Chennapragada 12:34 Launch and iterate. [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 12:36 [laughs] So I, I, I can even, uh, laugh at it now because none of it is required now. You know, then-

Aparna Chennapragada 12:45 It's easy

Kamal Haasan 12:45 ... on a screen you can match everything put together and go back to sleep.

Aparna Chennapragada 12:53 Speaking of, uh, kind of re- taking risks and, you know, trying to push the limit, right? So you've done nearly 200 films, um, in Tamil, Telugu, uh, Hindi, Kannada, Malayalam. You act, direct, write screenplay, uh, you play many parts. Um, as my friend and many fans call you, you're Sakala Kala Vallavan, right?

Kamal Haasan 13:13 [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 13:13 You're versatile. Um, how do these elements play off of each other, right? How do, how does your directorial sensibility affect your writing and acting and can you share some insights?

Kamal Haasan 13:24 I, I think this, uh, specialist situation is a very modern situation. E- even in times of lore, people wanted a, a good intelligent man is supposed to be Ashtavadhani. He must do eight things at a time, and there were special group people who did 100 things at, at a time.

Aparna Chennapragada 13:51 Wow.

Kamal Haasan 13:51 And they were tested for it. Like, someone will ask him a mathematical question. Someone will ask him, uh, to create poetry in iambic pentameter, and somebody will be dropping flower petals on his back. He'll have to count that also. By his sensibility, sensitivity, everything was tested. And then they'll blindfold him, and he'll have to... The whole thing will be happening like that.

Aparna Chennapragada 14:18 Wow.

Kamal Haasan 14:18 The, the... These are things that we've heard. It's all part of being, uh, ambidextrous and working on multi-platform is what we call it now. We're coming back to it.

Aparna Chennapragada 14:33 Android and iOS. [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 14:35 Yeah.

Aparna Chennapragada 14:35 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 14:36 You're, you're doing everything.

Aparna Chennapragada 14:37 Right.

Kamal Haasan 14:37 The, the specialist thing is only for those who are actually creating something. The actual user is becoming a Sakala Kala Vallavan, everybody. So I don't take that as a special title, uh, entitled, but I think it is like, uh, [laughs] being everybody else. [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 14:57 I guess related to that, uh, have you found, um, this, you know, your directorial sensibility? How does it work with different director styles? Like KB is very different from, say, Mani Ratnam from Kamal Haasan.

Kamal Haasan 15:07 Yeah, KB, KB is, uh, something like what you would say of your father, parents and things.

Aparna Chennapragada 15:16 Yeah.

Kamal Haasan 15:16 I have done 36 films with him, and 36 is a long time to either love or hate somebody.

Aparna Chennapragada 15:21 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 15:22 [laughs] I think we went through all the ups and downs of emotion. Finally ended up saying goodbye with a lot of love, because he, he knew he was going to go away. So that's how we came together in Uttama Villain.

Aparna Chennapragada 15:38 Uh-huh.

Kamal Haasan 15:39 And, uh, so it, it's a very rare relationship. And, and the man is tenacious. I'm not saying it because, one, he's not gonna hear it. Two, it's not out of gra- gratitude that he made my career, truly. Singularity, like a father would do. "Okay, now you're done schooling. Go to college. Now you're done college. Do your doctorate. Now you're done doctorate. Don't worry about the job. Continue doing what you like."

Aparna Chennapragada 16:09 Mm.

Kamal Haasan 16:09 That kind of support.

Aparna Chennapragada 16:11 Yeah.

Kamal Haasan 16:11 And only a father would do that. And for me, I keep telling everyone, it's rare in this century, or any century for that matter, to find a guru who paid you to teach-

Aparna Chennapragada 16:24 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 16:26 ... so that you could learn. That's always happened in my career. So I, I become very emotional, indebted when I talk about gurus. And I use the word guru, though I've lost my gods, I have not lost this part of me. I think it's very important to have a guru. But only thing is we are fixed with a, a format of a guru. A guru need not be older than you.

Aparna Chennapragada 16:59 Right.

Kamal Haasan 16:59 A guru need not be somebody who comes from outside. It could be a friend. It could be a daughter. She could be your daughter, a son, anybody. So it... That's why we have even in our mythology, um, that Shiva takes advice from Lord Muruga. He, he's called Thagapán Sámi in that. So it can come from anywhere. Yes, every director is different, like every interviewer is different.

Aparna Chennapragada 17:28 Right.

Kamal Haasan 17:29 Some mock the interviewed. Some want to prove that they are better than the man being interviewed. There are various ways of looking. Some people make both of them look good, and that, those are the kind of directors I respect a lot. They're not trying to save themselves and use rest of them as, uh, fodder for the critical canons. The... KB would make it look like his life was at stake when an, uh, an actor, a postman didn't render his line properly. It was... Time was not of essence. Nothing was... You'll work on a small detail over and over, over again. That's why a small bit part player in his film ended up being his partner in screenwriting, me. I started as a bit part player who couldn't sort of mumble his dialogue well. From there it started the relationship. That's so special. We'll not compare him to anybody else.

Aparna Chennapragada 18:39 Yeah.

Kamal Haasan 18:39 Mani Ratnam is another person. Sometimes when you look at a peer, you wonder that is this guy really as old as he says he is?

Speaker 18:49 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 18:50 Or is he older? You know, the, the, the behavior is not young. It's very wise and old. I always found that with Mani. When he was about 24, 23, that's when I saw him and he had that calm which none of us had. And deliberate looking. It's, it's, it's like a seasoned gladiator who's not panting and up with a sword. He just lets it loose hang and looks for an opportunity. That's what I found even more cooler for both of us, we learned some lessons from that guy is Balu Mahendra, who's no more. He learnt it actually from a film institute. Of all the directors I'm talking about, he is the right, uh, uh, what do you call? Pathfinder. Because he had a map.

Aparna Chennapragada 19:46 Mm.

Kamal Haasan 19:47 All of us, including Mr. Baruch Chandar, built and went on a journey without a map. It's difficult, I do understand, but why not take that education for cinema? And I always admired, uh, Balu Mahendra for coming prepared to the film industry and leaving it with many prepared students who are now making good films. That's what he left behind. The legacy of Balu Mahendra is something that will live on. He did lesser films, but he compensated by m- making more directors. These are special people. Singeetam, of course, is one of the youngest directors I know. He's only 87 or 86 now.

Speaker 20:34 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 20:37 And K. Vishwanath Garu.

Aparna Chennapragada 20:38 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 20:40 Naturally your favorite-

Aparna Chennapragada 20:41 Yeah

Kamal Haasan 20:41 ... of the last but not the least. And they're all special people. And, uh, with this you can say clearly my career was made, with these few people.

Aparna Chennapragada 20:53 Is there any, uh, art form... Again, like, you know, you've done so many of these different art forms, right? Is there anything beyond, like, writing screenplay? I- is there anything that you feel like you haven't had the chance to explore?

Kamal Haasan 21:04 Oh, so many. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm not as a tech-savvy person as everyone thinks, uh, that I am. Um, but what I like about cinema is moving images. Let's not even call it cinema. It's a very versatile medium. It'll absorb anything that comes its way, and continue telling stories. With all the coagulating, coming together of platforms, moving away images are still gonna be there, and still going to excite even more than it did before. And, uh, what I've not done is so many things. What... I always say, "What do you aspire to be in this film? You have done this." Most directors strive for this. Some have succeeded, some have not. To become truly a humble audience again. We lose it with all the technology. Well, for when you see something, a, a, an architecture computer stuff-

Aparna Chennapragada 22:12 Mm

Kamal Haasan 22:12 ... you're looking at the corners, you're looking at the engineering, you're looking at the inside, missing all the fun out of it.

Aparna Chennapragada 22:18 Mm-hmm.

Kamal Haasan 22:20 Beca- being computer engineers, you look at the architecture. What it is, what could have been? And you, and you totally miss out the fun where a common man has. It's how do you regain the naivety?

Aparna Chennapragada 22:32 Mm.

Kamal Haasan 22:33 How do you... It's not even unlearning. It is like meditation.

Aparna Chennapragada 22:37 Oh.

Kamal Haasan 22:37 You just leave it aside and enjoy. Go back. And that's what I would like to be, a true good audience. You know, when that happens, I will not be making flops.

Speaker 22:49 [laughs] [clapping]

Aparna Chennapragada 23:01 So this, um, question came up from... Again, we, uh, collected some of the questions from, uh, rest of us at Google. You know, at Google and in Silicon Valley in general, we talk a lot about taking risks. You know, we say, how, how do you go 10X? How do you bet big, take bold be- bets? Of failing, trying, experimenting. I can't think of anyone that embodies the spirit of experimentation and taking risks other than you, uh, in, uh, cinema. So you've taken many risks. Can you share some thoughts on how you think about that, right? How do you actually think? So think about maybe the South or how do you actually come up with these big, bold bets? And actually, Appu Raja is a great example where, how did... How do you think about taking risks and failure?

Kamal Haasan 23:44 I don't think it is a risk. That's, that's point number A.

Aparna Chennapragada 23:48 Right.

Kamal Haasan 23:49 If you, if it... If I thought it's a risk, I won't do it.

Speaker 23:51 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 23:53 Because-

Speaker 23:53 [clapping]

Kamal Haasan 23:56 So only when I'm convinced, only when I know that my bungee will stretch to its made out of right material and I won't swing and hit the rocks. Taking this, I might still die. But then where's the fun of bungee jumping? Then don't do bungee jumping. Just jump on where you are, six, seven, eight inches [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 24:22 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 24:23 Be happy with that. But that's the way man has always moved forward by taking that step forward. We were walking on fours, all four. And then when he became biped, somehow we thought this is the direction to grow. I always question that: Why should this be the direction to grow?

Aparna Chennapragada 24:46 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 24:47 Why not this one? Why don't we think laterally? Why don't we learn from a crab? It moves faster in all directions this way. And we tend to also, uh, complacently lean back on previous success.

Aparna Chennapragada 25:03 Mm.

Kamal Haasan 25:03 Biped man thinking everything is up there is also part of that. He should think, uh, laterally. And about taking risks, I'll have to use a dialogue from, uh, The South Era: Would you run a marathon with 40 million people and try to still win? All of us here have run that marathon. We had 40 million sperms [laughs] and we are the winners.

Aparna Chennapragada 25:35 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 25:37 This room is only full of winners.

Aparna Chennapragada 25:39 [laughs] [clapping]

Kamal Haasan 25:46 And I'll go even further. This world has only winners. If you're not a winner, you wouldn't have come here at all. You would have been with those other brothers and sisters you lost, who stayed outside mama's womb, kun- knocking and dying outside, and you're the only person who made it. So when somebody th- thinks of killing themselves, I tell them this: It's up to you to make a loser out of a winner. We always try to do that. That's why that gives me the confidence that I've won before. Why not try again?

Aparna Chennapragada 26:27 [clapping]

Aparna Chennapragada 26:33 So, Marudhanayagam. Um, you know, one of the things at least is that the technology at that time wasn't there, right? So, and you've been thinking about this around how technology can really shape... What are your thoughts? Do you think that's, uh, the time has come or?

Kamal Haasan 26:47 No, no, when Marudhanayagam stopped for reasons, uh, that very few know, everyone was sad. Somebody said, "It's a disaster. It will be like Kiwi via Mexico for..." I, I liked the comparison, so I enjoyed it. But, um, what I told them for fun or in anger, I said, "So what? Part of Marudhanayagam was going to be in film. The rest was going to be digital." And they all laughed because it was 2000.

Aparna Chennapragada 27:22 Hmm.

Kamal Haasan 27:24 But that's what will happen when, if and ever Marudhanayagam is made, part of it will be in film, the rest of it will be in digital domain. Who knows? IMAX.

Aparna Chennapragada 27:35 So, uh, I want to switch gears to technology and what we do here. There's one big shift, at least many big shifts actually, in entertainment, right, with mobile phones. Um, but for us, one of the biggest things is we can... we see is YouTube, right? That, uh, you know, there's a lot more of entertainment reaching people, not through this mega, you know, mainstream, uh, huge marketing machines and mainstream pictures and so on. Uh, and then there's the other shift with Netflix, for example. There's original series, right? With really talented actors like Kevin Spacey in House of Cards. Netflix is coming to India, too. So how do you think about how film industry is adapting to it and how it should adapt to it? What are your thoughts?

Kamal Haasan 28:17 I'm the bleeding, injured example of why the film industry is not adapting to it. Because when I wanted to go simple, it's very simple thing like putting it on DTH.

Aparna Chennapragada 28:30 Hmm.

Kamal Haasan 28:31 They're out to, uh, kill me [laughs] literally throw me out of the industry for trying to do that. I think this intramural entertainment is going to be at the will of the consumer, wherever he wants. It cannot be within four walls. He's going to take it to his bedroom, he's going to take it to work for a lunchtime viewing of a part of my film, and he's going to watch at will. And the platform is irrelevant anymore. He's going to... I even told the d- people who opposed the theater owners that, "Tell me, with all calendar printing of, uh, Tirupati Venkata Chalapathi's photograph, has the crowd in Tirupati reduced?"

Aparna Chennapragada 29:22 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 29:30 [clapping] There is, there is a ritual that they believe in. They like to do that, uh, journey. It's... That's why they go. Even wine shops print Venkata Chalapathi things. Venkata Chalapathi wines, and we have that.

Aparna Chennapragada 29:48 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 29:49 I've seen so many, and you've seen him. So what is the thing? God is everywhere, isn't it?

Aparna Chennapragada 29:54 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 29:56 According to Prahalada is there in, in atom and i- in, in, in a pillar, in you, in me, in everybody else. So why not in a calendar? Why won't we settle down to it? It's an experience. How many ever treadmills you make, people would like to walk the earth in bad weather. They'll wear all sorts of rain gear and still run on open space. Like that, there is this congregation. You want to enjoy this conversation. You can read about it. You can see it on your thing. But sitting here is something special for people, especially for me. So I can't just do this on Skype and be happy about it. It can be done, but it, this is another experience. Likewise, cinema is a choice. You can-

Aparna Chennapragada 30:55 Mm-hmm

Kamal Haasan 30:55 ... to go or hear. [laughs] That's what you'll have to ask. And the- and they should encourage, uh, allied businesses because it's going to promote the central goal even more. One thing, as long as indus- industry does not allow transparency in business, they are not going to allow any new technology either. It should be... The correct way to run the business is the collection of a film should be seen by everybody, all the players. There should be transparency. I think there's a hole in the bucket. We are carrying a bucket with holes on either end.

Aparna Chennapragada 31:42 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 31:44 I'm just a middleman, a stupid middleman, who likes his art and somehow trying to wet his tongue when there is a river running, and I'm scooping what comes in a ho- bucket with two holes on either end. So I, I think they must adapt. I'm using this to warn those old people who are hugging their, uh, uh, investments which, which will become archaic. It'll crumble. The edifice will crumble [laughs] in, uh, on themselves, and people will keep marching on. They can't stop Netflix. They can't stop YouTube. They can't stop anybody coming in and entertaining. And the democracy of enjoying art will be fully enjoyed by the world. Uh, no business strategy can stop it. No Hollywood, no Bollywood can stop it.

Aparna Chennapragada 32:42 [applause] Some of your fans wanted to know when are you, uh, going to be on YouTube? [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 32:50 Yeah, I'm, I'm already there so... [laughs] But without monetizing it. [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 33:02 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 33:02 [applause]

Aparna Chennapragada 33:03 So you're at Google. We are all nerds here, so it's time for a quick trivia quiz. Uh, but I thought first let's see if we can ask Google some questions about you before I ask some questions.

Kamal Haasan 33:13 [laughs] Yeah.

Aparna Chennapragada 33:14 Um, let's see if this, Google's smart enough to know this. I'm gonna try this. Okay, Google. [Google beeps] Where was Kamal Haasan born? [Google beeps] He was born in Paramakudi, India. Is that right?

Kamal Haasan 33:27 [applause]

Aparna Chennapragada 33:33 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 33:34 We'll keep it to ourselves.

Aparna Chennapragada 33:35 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 33:37 I was born in Ramanathapuram. This is something I always wanted to correct.

Aparna Chennapragada 33:41 All right, let's fix it. [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 33:43 Let's fix it. [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 33:43 [laughs] [applause] So let's ask you some questions just for fun. Um, uttama comedy. A, Pushpak; B, Michael Madana Kamarajan; C, Avvai Shanmughi; D, your choice.

Kamal Haasan 34:00 I would say in spite of, uh, um, Ka- Kameswaran being everybody's favorite, I would say Pushpak is unique because it do- didn't speak. And I think truly uttama comedy is that which is done without, not at anybody's expense. That is truly noble comedy, where you laugh. They ask me... W- it, it's a known... [applause] Yeah. If you can do that, you're a fantastic comedian. You can make people laugh. You can call a, uh, obese man obese, short man short, tall man tall. It's very easy to make fun of people. That's why they say that w- when they explain tragedy and comedy, they say when it happens to you, it's a tragedy.

Aparna Chennapragada 34:48 Yeah.

Kamal Haasan 34:48 When it happens to somebody else, it's a comedy.

Aparna Chennapragada 34:50 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 34:51 Simple. That, that's our attitude. Within that attitude, if you can bring nobility without hurting anyone, then that's great comedy, and Chaplin was that. Buster Keaton was that. Well, P.G. Wodehouse was that. He, he made fun of people, but people with cold, and he changed the spelling for every word to explain... In writing, how do you explain a person has cold? He said, he said, "I am C-U-B-B-I-N-G. I'm cubbing."

Aparna Chennapragada 35:23 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 35:25 Because he had a cold. If you start phonetically pronouncing it, you feel that you're talking with a cold. That's the brilliance of... He's actually making fun of anyone with cold, including yourself, and you start doing it. This must have, he must have written 100 years ago. So that, that's good comedy, uttama comedy for me.

Aparna Chennapragada 35:47 Um, we al- al- al- already covered some of it, but, uh, uttama director, I'm not including KB in it because I know he's a different, uh, category.

Kamal Haasan 35:55 Well, in his absence, I'll have to promote somebody I love equally well, me.

Aparna Chennapragada 35:59 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 36:01 [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 36:01 [applause] It was one of my choices, which is-

Kamal Haasan 36:08 Thank you. Thank you

Aparna Chennapragada 36:08 ... Viswanath, Mani Ratnam, Kamal Haasan. [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 36:11 Yeah, but, uh, I have a commitment.

Aparna Chennapragada 36:12 Fair enough. [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 36:15 [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 36:16 Um, uttama film.

Kamal Haasan 36:19 Uttama film is yet to be made. I'm trying to.

Aparna Chennapragada 36:26 [clapping]

Aparna Chennapragada 36:28 So I'll turn to some questions that we collected from the audience and the rest of Google. So I'll share some of them. So one of them is that, you know, there's so much exciting work going on in South Indian region cinema, but these films are relatively difficult for other parts of the world to access. I mean, forget even other parts of the world, other parts of, uh, the country too, right? So for example, often they don't have subtitles or, you know, they don't have distribution. Do you... What are your thoughts on how do we bring these fantastic films to the rest of the world?

Kamal Haasan 36:55 I think we'll have to... This world and that world will have to sit together. [clears throat] And probably there are going to be vested interest, earlier champions who won't like... It's, it's, I call it the Herod and Kansa syndrome. Kill the child so there won't be an opposition, which is a very wrong thing. It's against humanity. You cannot kill a nascent industry because you're worried that it'll affect it. Invention will have to thrive. Somebody asked about CERN, what is the use of spending billions of dollars on this? What do we get out of it? I said, uh, for which he said, "I, I don't know." The lady who was-

Aparna Chennapragada 37:43 Mm

Kamal Haasan 37:43 ... leading it, she said, "I don't know." We scientists do not think of that. When Marconi made radio, he was not thinking of the commercial value of it. He was inventing something. The businessman will always find use for any invention.

Aparna Chennapragada 38:02 [laughing] [clapping]

Kamal Haasan 38:06 So we must keep working on innovative, if not inventions all the time, innovative co- permutation combinations. And now I think cinema should get more democracy. It cannot be with the money bag. No country should be held by federal banks.

Aparna Chennapragada 38:25 You've been a trailblazer in bringing technologies, like Auro 3D is a great example, right? What can we expect next, and what drives you here?

Kamal Haasan 38:32 Well, I, everyone thinks I jump at everything that's new. I was very angry when digital, uh, uh, revolution was delayed by laboratory owners, studio owners, camera rental owners, and people who simply were attached to film, like Mr. Nolan, Christopher Nolan.

Aparna Chennapragada 38:52 Mm.

Kamal Haasan 38:53 It's, it's something like saying I'm a vegetarian, I'll never touch meat, or vice versa.

Aparna Chennapragada 38:58 [laughing]

Kamal Haasan 39:00 So it is like that. But at that time, I think the world digital cinema revolution was delayed at least by 10, 15 years by vested interests. And in India, add five more, and that five more was too much for me. So what I did was, they were making big things, bringing in a lot of big gizmos. So I made a film called Mumbai Express with a camera which is lesser than the one that's shooting me now. I made a point. We carried... Even now I'm saying that there were times when we had a camera and we changed costly lenses. Now we can put a camera for every l- perspective we want. So it's going to be the change of cameras rather than-

Aparna Chennapragada 39:51 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 39:52 ... the change of lenses. It's going that direction. And it's going to be like lollipop, where you can turn the camera 360 degrees. It's there and you can choose. Now you have light through, which fixes focus anywhere you want. The photographers say that's cheating.

Aparna Chennapragada 40:09 [laughing]

Kamal Haasan 40:13 So is knowledge.

Aparna Chennapragada 40:14 [laughing]

Kamal Haasan 40:16 You know better than him and you retain that knowledge what's gonna happen tomorrow. You see in King Solomon's mind, there is a scene where he forecast darkness that will come on Earth. Actually, he knows from his calendar there's going to be a solar eclipse.

Aparna Chennapragada 40:32 [laughing]

Kamal Haasan 40:34 And that sort of... The people there believe that he is godly. That is, that's cheating. But you can do that with the knowledge. That's what others, the great priests were doing. They... With their knowledge. Now is the time when you have to really give it to the people, let the c- customers, the inventors, and the, uh, content makers almost touch each other. It's gonna be like live performance. So that's where we are heading towards. It is a live performance. If, if you telecast it now, right now, it is live performance. So we are going in the direction, and we will have partners, but unfortunately they're all going to be young.

Aparna Chennapragada 41:18 [laughing]

Kamal Haasan 41:21 That, that's the only way to go, because the older people seem to, uh, believe in s- stagnancy and rigidity. That's perfect recipe for atrophy. I, I just spoke about that in Harvard. I said, "When you hold on and think I believe in this, there's no settled science. Shouldn't be." Then we would be only believing in penicillin. There won't be antibiotic and further on and on. Now we're reversing and teaching our body to take care of it.

Aparna Chennapragada 41:55 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 41:55 That's where the medicine should go. That's where cinema should go. I think the audience are gonna drive the content, not like designers making a thing. We'll be... It'll become so natural and, uh, harmonious, you won't even know who is directing the film now.

Aparna Chennapragada 42:14 Yeah.

Kamal Haasan 42:14 I, I will live to see the day, hopefully. Work fast.

Aparna Chennapragada 42:17 [laughing]

Aparna Chennapragada 42:19 So, so if you were at, uh, Google, like what would be your 10X project? What would, uh-

Kamal Haasan 42:26 You ask a child, "What do you want?" He say, "A big lollipop." [laughing]

Aparna Chennapragada 42:31 [laughing]

Kamal Haasan 42:32 So it's like that. And I would say that- You should get into moving images content dispersal

Aparna Chennapragada 42:41 Mm.

Kamal Haasan 42:42 How you do it, how you encourage the existing industry to accept you and not tolerate you. That's it. You must become- [audience clapping] part of that industry, whatever it takes. If it, if it means waging battle, time for battle

Aparna Chennapragada 43:02 Mm-hmm

Kamal Haasan 43:02 ... because otherwise it's going to slow down. And why slow down technology when all could enjoy it? Why slow down knowledge? It should be though. So I think we should all set sort of huddle together. The game has begun already. The, the, the, the, the ardent fans cheering for the game to go. They don't care about winners and losers. They enjoy the spectacle, so we must give it to them. And the spectacle will be when we fully understand that cinema or any entertainment medium is about the content and the performance, and above all, the enjoyment of the larger majority, not the enjoyment of a few who are playing on the stage. They both enjoy equally, but this enjoyment comes from the... They cannot perform on their own and feel the same happiness. So we, it's time that we get together and connect that last mile. And that last mile might be uphill, might be a bloody battle, but it has to be done, and I'm not going to die in the battlefield. [audience laughing] [audience clapping] I won't run away from it either. [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 44:26 So the next question from the audience was: If you were to make a Hollywood movie today, what would be, what would it be about? And-

Kamal Haasan 44:32 Oh, they already made it. Whenever I think of something, they make it.

Aparna Chennapragada 44:35 [laughs] [audience laughing] [audience clapping] And who would your co-stars, co-stars be?

Kamal Haasan 44:43 There's so many talented people here, like it makes me wanna cry.

Aparna Chennapragada 44:48 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 44:49 That's how many talented people there are. Uh, some names I don't even know, but you look at Ryan Gosling, you look at Tom Hardy. Tom Hardy is somebody who I could either applaud or kill.

Aparna Chennapragada 45:01 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 45:03 I'll only do two, two things for that man, but he'll have to keep that performance going. Like it... He's doing what Brando and all did with tremendous pace. I don't know what variety. I mean, he's every actor's envy. And, uh, that's the way to go. And, uh, there are so many people and so many things to do. And, uh, like, Revenant is a film I always wanted to make because it was already made as Lost in the Wilderness.

Aparna Chennapragada 45:38 Mm.

Kamal Haasan 45:38 It's, it's from a, a, a lore that... It's a true story, but it has happened before. I- when I saw that film, one day I would make that film. And Mr., uh, Alejandro beat it to me.

Aparna Chennapragada 45:53 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 45:54 He did. It's a fantastic film. But it gives me more energy, anger, because I can feel the breath of man behind me, and I can see the kicking of the dust of the man running in front of me is coming. I can taste the earth [laughs] that's coming from his foot, and the lion is there. We can see. But it's fun. I enjoy it. I, uh, I am in this... They ask me, "What are you working as, and, uh, how do you manage?" Everybody asks me those questions. I give a very disappointing answer: I don't work anymore. It's about 20, 25 years since I stopped working. I still get paid. I still make movies. I love it. So- [audience clapping] I don't, I don't consider that as work at all. I'm so grateful with- for whatever money they give me. I'm so happy because-

Aparna Chennapragada 46:56 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 46:57 ... nobody pays you for your holiday.

Aparna Chennapragada 46:59 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 47:00 [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 47:01 You've done a variety of genre films, right, in different parts of filmmaking. Is there a new genre, is there something new that's on your mind recently that you wanna explore?

Kamal Haasan 47:10 Oh, there's so many. It's gonna happen. It's, uh... As a matter of fact, for Marathan, I come, uh... Jean-Claude Carrière and I had a thought because we wanted to shoot it with multiple cameras. Of course, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's, uh, the nightmare for every producer-

Aparna Chennapragada 47:28 Mm-hmm

Kamal Haasan 47:28 ... when the camera, when the director says, "I want multiple cameras." That means cost will go up. A take will, to become perfect, will take too many takes. So, but what we wanted to, uh, do is work with three primary cameras and many more, but three primary cameras where the French film will have a different cut, perspective. English and Tamil in one film. We'll send it to those areas with those point of views.

Aparna Chennapragada 48:06 Yeah.

Kamal Haasan 48:06 Like, when we want to see this film, uh, of us talking-

Aparna Chennapragada 48:11 Right

Kamal Haasan 48:11 ... where would you want the camera to be? Here. [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 48:16 Mm.

Kamal Haasan 48:16 Not there.

Aparna Chennapragada 48:16 Right.

Kamal Haasan 48:18 So, or probably here and here. That's what pleases us.

Aparna Chennapragada 48:24 Yeah.

Kamal Haasan 48:24 So we... The, the script was written in that way. We didn't even share it to anyone because if we had, that would have been another reason to stop the film. [laughs]

Aparna Chennapragada 48:34 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 48:35 So there are so many things that we could do, innovative things.

Aparna Chennapragada 48:39 Mm-hmm

Kamal Haasan 48:40 Now you have so many things coming. You, you can make the, uh, audience look around as, and still have content everywhere. And this is nothing new for me. When I was about five year or six year old, there was a exhibition called Circo Rama, which came to my town, Chennai. It was a big tent, tent they built. The audience were herded inside a huge circus tent, and all the projection rooms were outside.

Aparna Chennapragada 49:16 Mm.

Kamal Haasan 49:17 And I saw, um, a speech by, uh, Abraham Lincoln, Gettysburg speech or something. I, I didn't know much English then. Something was happening in English, and you had this Lincoln Memorial thing, and we were in the middle. It was an astounding... You have to stand and watch. So when, when they say 360 degree camera now, I say, "I've seen it."

Aparna Chennapragada 49:46 [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 49:48 So that is technol- That's how delayed technology becomes sometimes, for good reasons and bad reasons.

Aparna Chennapragada 49:55 It's a related question to what you just said, which is, what, what role do you think personally you wanna play in, like, pushing this, you know, technology towards the, you know, towards the frontier? You know. You've always been, as you said, like, the bleeding edge [laughs] .

Kamal Haasan 50:11 Simply get in there and do it. Don't keep deliberating and talking about it.

Aparna Chennapragada 50:16 Mm.

Kamal Haasan 50:16 What's the worst thing that can happen is you'll fail. That's data for future work.

Aparna Chennapragada 50:21 [laughs]

Speaker 50:28 [clapping]

Aparna Chennapragada 50:29 The, the last, um, request was, can we take a group selfie with you? [laughs]

Kamal Haasan 50:33 Yeah, we can. [laughs]

Speaker 50:35 [cheering]

Kamal Haasan 50:35 I don't know how it works. [clapping] [camera clicking]