A Rare In-Person Random Show with Kevin Rose! How to Shape Your Mind, Books, Movies, and More

1. 0:00 – 0:18

   Start

   1. TFTim Ferriss0:00

      [upbeat music] Let me hit record.

   2. KRKevin Rose0:15

      [laughs]

   3. TFTim Ferriss0:16

      Here we go.

2. 0:18 – 4:40

   Why we're recording this in Los Angeles.

   1. KRKevin Rose0:18

      All right. Cheers, Kevin.

   2. TFTim Ferriss0:19

      Cheers. [glasses clink]

   3. KRKevin Rose0:20

      Clink, clink.

   4. TFTim Ferriss0:20

      Good to see you. Clink, clink. So where are we and what are we drinking?

   5. KRKevin Rose0:24

      Are you supposed to say, "Welcome to the show," and shit? You're already hammered?

   6. TFTim Ferriss0:26

      [laughs] I'm not already hammered.

   7. KRKevin Rose0:29

      [laughs]

   8. TFTim Ferriss0:29

      I just feel like in my current state of mind and affairs of skipping the preamble, skipping all the foreplay-

   9. KRKevin Rose0:37

      Going straight in.

   10. TFTim Ferriss0:38

       You know?

   11. KRKevin Rose0:38

       Just raw.

   12. TFTim Ferriss0:38

       If my audience has been [laughs] if my audience has been with me for 700 of these, I'm like, "You know, you guys are probably pretty limbered up by now."

   13. KRKevin Rose0:45

       That's... Limbered? [laughs]

   14. TFTim Ferriss0:47

       Limbered up.

   15. KRKevin Rose0:48

       Love it.

   16. TFTim Ferriss0:49

       Yeah. Welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show, everybody. This is a special edition random show. It's been a few months at least.

   17. KRKevin Rose0:56

       I know. It's good to see you. We're-

   18. TFTim Ferriss0:58

       Yeah

   19. KRKevin Rose0:58

       ... we're actually next to each other.

   20. TFTim Ferriss0:59

       I know.

   21. KRKevin Rose1:00

       If you're watching the video, we are sitting next to each other-

   22. TFTim Ferriss1:02

       Yeah

   23. KRKevin Rose1:02

       ... on my floor, which is, is crazy.

   24. TFTim Ferriss1:05

       Yeah. This is old school. I like it.

   25. KRKevin Rose1:07

       Yeah.

   26. TFTim Ferriss1:08

       In front of, in front of a recording couch.

   27. KRKevin Rose1:10

       Does my audio sound weird to you? Listen to this. Tell me if that sounds weird to you. Test one, two, three. Hello, hello. How's it going? Does that sound weird? Watch. [taps chest] See?

   28. TFTim Ferriss1:23

       Talk, talk, talk.

   29. KRKevin Rose1:23

       Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. You sound good, right?

   30. TFTim Ferriss1:26

       Doesn't sound weird.
3. 4:40 – 7:16

   What are we drinking?

   1. TFTim Ferriss4:41

      So sitting on the floor with a beverage in hand.

   2. KRKevin Rose4:46

      What are you drinking?

   3. TFTim Ferriss4:47

      That's a great question because this is something of yours. I am keeping it simple and having some tequila. Missing a little bit of Texas perhaps. Dos Artes 100% agave blanco. I wanted something that would maybe be less likely to donkey punch me in the head hangover-wise, and so I chose this as much for the blanco-

   4. KRKevin Rose5:09

      Beautiful bottle, right?

   5. TFTim Ferriss5:11

      ... as for the bottle itself. I mean, the actual ceramic container is gorgeous.

   6. KRKevin Rose5:18

      This is one of our, our favorite tequilas. I gotta say a big thank you to Anish who introduced me to this tequila, bought me a bottle of this as, I think, a birth- birthday gift or something. It just blew my mind. So really good. Not, not crazy expensive, uh, like middle of the road kinda world.

   7. TFTim Ferriss5:34

      Yeah.

   8. KRKevin Rose5:34

      But just awesome tequila.

   9. TFTim Ferriss5:36

      Yeah, I have no idea. Just for the bottle alone, I'm imagining this costs a fair amount to make. Which is true for a lot of the premium alcohols. Like, you're paying 20% of the price or 30% of the price for the glass or the crystal-

   10. KRKevin Rose5:49

       Right

   11. TFTim Ferriss5:49

       ... or whatever you're actually not keeping most likely. So what are you drinking?

   12. KRKevin Rose5:54

       I am having a little bit of champagne, uh, just because my wife bought a bottle and we opened it Uh, [laughs] I am [laughs] drinking a really douchey champagne. It's, it's not douchey, but it's like-

   13. TFTim Ferriss6:06

       [laughs]

   14. KRKevin Rose6:06

       Can I just say that on your podcast?

   15. TFTim Ferriss6:07

       Yeah, you can say whatever you want. [laughs]

   16. KRKevin Rose6:08

       Okay, so it, it's, um... This is the funny thing. Daria came back from, from the champagne store, which, [laughs] the grocery store.

   17. TFTim Ferriss6:16

       [laughs]

   18. KRKevin Rose6:17

       And she, she was like, "I, I saved $300." And I'm like, "Cool. What'd you get?" We don't ever drink this champagne, but there was apparently a sale on something called Ace of Spades-

   19. TFTim Ferriss6:26

       [laughs]

   20. KRKevin Rose6:27

       ... which is Jay-Z's champagne. It's actually quite good. It's actually quite good. So-

   21. TFTim Ferriss6:30

       Well, I'm just laughing because as soon as you mentioned that before we were recording, and I was like [laughs] ... And you also have a red wine with Snoop Dogg's face on it [laughs] next to your sink.

   22. KRKevin Rose6:41

       That's-

   23. TFTim Ferriss6:41

       I'm like, "What is it?" [laughs] Tupac-

   24. KRKevin Rose6:44

       Listen-

   25. TFTim Ferriss6:44

       ... uh, you know, grass-fed butter. What's next?

   26. KRKevin Rose6:46

       So we, we-

   27. TFTim Ferriss6:46

       What's coming?

   28. KRKevin Rose6:47

       So they're... Not too far away from us is a grocery store that basically has Snoop Dogg's wine, and it's like, kind of like a table wine. And, and Daria needs it for cooking, so she bought Snoop Dogg's... It was like a six... It was like, I think, $10 bottle of wine.

   29. TFTim Ferriss7:01

       [laughs] I don't judge the cost of Snoop Dogg's table wine.

   30. KRKevin Rose7:04

       [laughs]
4. 7:16 – 17:27

   Why I aim for evergreen interviews over gotchas on this show.

   1. KRKevin Rose7:16

      man.

   2. TFTim Ferriss7:16

      Good to see you, man. Yeah, it's been a long time since we've done one of these in person.

   3. KRKevin Rose7:18

      I know. It reminds me of the old school episodes that we used to do back in the day.

   4. TFTim Ferriss7:20

      We used to do these all the time in San Francisco.

   5. KRKevin Rose7:22

      Yeah.

   6. TFTim Ferriss7:23

      And even with the glass background, it makes me think of one of your places-

   7. KRKevin Rose7:27

      Mm-hmm

   8. TFTim Ferriss7:27

      ... in San Francisco.

   9. KRKevin Rose7:28

      Totally.

   10. TFTim Ferriss7:29

       Where all those people showed up angry.

   11. KRKevin Rose7:32

       Oh, the protesters.

   12. TFTim Ferriss7:33

       The protesters.

   13. KRKevin Rose7:34

       Yeah. I-

   14. TFTim Ferriss7:34

       That place. That, that particular place

   15. KRKevin Rose7:35

       ... had a few of those. Have you been protested yet?

   16. TFTim Ferriss7:37

       I have not [laughs] been protested yet.

   17. KRKevin Rose7:39

       That's interesting.

   18. TFTim Ferriss7:40

       Yeah, well, I-

   19. KRKevin Rose7:41

       I think that's gonna happen, actually, with your-

   20. TFTim Ferriss7:43

       Ugh. I-

   21. KRKevin Rose7:43

       ... secret thing you're working on

   22. TFTim Ferriss7:44

       ... oh, God. I'm not sure. [laughs] People's imaginations will, like, go wild with what horrible thing I'm concocting. But I have not been protested. I'll take the counterpoint, and this is... I don't wanna give him credit, because I don't know if he would want it. But a friend of mine who has this theory, and I tend to agree with it, that people are going to be 10% less famous every year if they're already a public figure. If they're not in rapid ascension, if they're not exploding, and even if they are, if we go over a longer timeframe, like it's one thing to be popular on TikTok for a month.

   23. KRKevin Rose8:22

       You're on TikTok, right?

   24. TFTim Ferriss8:23

       I'm not. It's quite a different thing-

   25. KRKevin Rose8:24

       Oh, shit

   26. TFTim Ferriss8:24

       ... to be popular for, like, 10 years on, 20 years.

   27. KRKevin Rose8:27

       Yeah.

   28. TFTim Ferriss8:28

       And I just think that is going to become harder and harder to do.

   29. KRKevin Rose8:32

       Because there'll be more of a pool of people that'll be-

   30. TFTim Ferriss8:34

       Oh, yeah.
5. 17:27 – 18:53

   Where Kevin wants me to take this show.

   1. TFTim Ferriss17:28

      What do you think I should do with the podcast?

   2. KRKevin Rose17:30

      Honestly?

   3. TFTim Ferriss17:31

      Yeah.

   4. KRKevin Rose17:31

      Because I love you, I want you to move to Los Angeles [laughs] and have a live show.

   5. TFTim Ferriss17:35

      [laughs]

   6. KRKevin Rose17:36

      'Cause I think a live show would be ...

   7. TFTim Ferriss17:37

      Yeah.

   8. KRKevin Rose17:37

      'Cause it, here's the question. Like, I guess what I was trying to hint at with the Joe Rogan piece is that I believe when I watch Zuck on his show, and I watch a lot of people, Aaron Rodgers and a few people that I've watched recently-

   9. TFTim Ferriss17:51

      Mm

   10. KRKevin Rose17:51

       ... the reason why he can get them to share intimate details is-

   11. TFTim Ferriss17:55

       Yeah

   12. KRKevin Rose17:55

       ... because of that. I mean, Aaron Rodgers is sitting there smoking a cigar on his set, right?

   13. TFTim Ferriss18:00

       Yeah.

   14. KRKevin Rose18:00

       And they're just kinda chilling out, like, having fun. It's the Elon moment with the weed cigarette-

   15. TFTim Ferriss18:05

       [laughs]

   16. KRKevin Rose18:05

       ... you know, all that shit. But, like, that, that magic can't happen remote, you know?

   17. TFTim Ferriss18:10

       Yeah, it's a lot harder.

   18. KRKevin Rose18:11

       It's a lot harder. So I don't know. I mean, I, I would, i- if- If you, if you're gonna go for it, like, I'd love for you to move to LA, dude, but that's just me personally, 'cause I haven't wanted to have you more in my orbit and hanging out more often, you know?

   19. TFTim Ferriss18:23

       [laughs] Yeah. You know, I've thought about doing a limited edition live series. I was actually looking at it right before COVID hit.

   20. KRKevin Rose18:32

       Well, you did that series, that television show, right?

   21. TFTim Ferriss18:33

       Yeah, yeah, Fearless.

   22. KRKevin Rose18:34

       Yeah.

   23. TFTim Ferriss18:34

       And, and I enjoyed that, and I would do it again, and there is a magic, a connection, also an audio/visual component if you wanna show photographs or video-

   24. KRKevin Rose18:46

       Sure

   25. TFTim Ferriss18:47

       ... that is very hard, if not impossible, to replicate live.

   26. KRKevin Rose18:50

       It's the Oprah thing.

   27. TFTim Ferriss18:51

       I also just like having...

6. 18:53 – 20:11

   Scenes: Austin vs. San Francisco

   1. TFTim Ferriss18:53

      I think having an audience is a lot of fun.

   2. KRKevin Rose18:55

      Well, think about what Oprah did, right?

   3. TFTim Ferriss18:56

      It's like being an athlete and having to compete. It's going from training to competing.

   4. KRKevin Rose19:00

      Yeah.

   5. TFTim Ferriss19:01

      And since I don't do live very often, I get a cheap thrill out of it.

   6. KRKevin Rose19:04

      Yeah.

   7. TFTim Ferriss19:05

      Uh, but what were you saying about Oprah?

   8. KRKevin Rose19:06

      I was just saying that she was able to break down... I mean, a lot of the intimate stuff that came out was because they were sitting across from each other, right?

   9. TFTim Ferriss19:13

      Yeah.

   10. KRKevin Rose19:13

       You felt like you were just with her-

   11. TFTim Ferriss19:15

       Yep

   12. KRKevin Rose19:15

       ... uh, during that moment. Why don't you do six months out of the year out here?

   13. TFTim Ferriss19:19

       [laughs]

   14. KRKevin Rose19:20

       A little studio, a little s- series. It could be cool, actually.

   15. TFTim Ferriss19:22

       Maybe one month.

   16. KRKevin Rose19:23

       [laughs]

   17. TFTim Ferriss19:24

       But the fact of the matter is, I moved to Austin because I wanted to leave a scene also. I mean, there are tons of reasons, but-

   18. KRKevin Rose19:31

       I remember you were in SF, right?

   19. TFTim Ferriss19:33

       Yeah, and I was just-

   20. KRKevin Rose19:33

       And you were just kinda getting burnt out on that shit

   21. TFTim Ferriss19:34

       ... I was done. I was done for a couple of years before I left. And then I got there, and then COVID happened, and what I thought was gonna take, like, five to eight years happened in 18 months, and now Austin is a scene. And it's like-

   22. KRKevin Rose19:47

       Right

   23. TFTim Ferriss19:48

       ... "Fuck." [laughs]

   24. KRKevin Rose19:48

       Well, because [laughs] I remember one time I ta- I talked to you, and I don't know if you wanna keep this in or not, but, like, there was one time where you were like, you moved to Austin kinda hoping to kinda, like, get away from that shit-

   25. TFTim Ferriss19:58

       Yeah

   26. KRKevin Rose19:58

       ... and then you're going to coffee shops, people are, "Tim!" Like [laughs] like-

   27. TFTim Ferriss20:01

       [laughs]

   28. KRKevin Rose20:01

       ... recognizing you and just being like... You're like, "Fuck, I just wanted to come here for some peace."

   29. TFTim Ferriss20:05

       Yeah. You know, and it's, uh-

   30. KRKevin Rose20:08

       Like, you're hearing tech conversations over coffees?
7. 20:11 – 26:57

   I did not start the conspirituality.

   1. TFTim Ferriss20:11

      It's the tech stuff.

   2. KRKevin Rose20:12

      Yeah.

   3. TFTim Ferriss20:12

      Because if, if somebody listens to the podcast and they say hi, honestly, there are days when I need it. Like, it feels good.

   4. KRKevin Rose20:19

      Yeah. But it's the-

   5. TFTim Ferriss20:20

      But, but, but I'll t- I'll paint a picture. If I'm... This, this, like, actually happened to me, something very similar to this. If, however, I, like, spot a guy in a man bun who has more tattoos than, like, a Brazilian MMA fighter who's been to prison, and has, like, an ayahuasca T-shirt on, and is wearing, like, a Bitcoin bracelet, and comes over to me and he's like, "Yo, bro. Yeah. Well, I used to listen to your stuff, but I'm more of a Lex Fridman fan" [laughs] Like, what is this interaction?

   6. KRKevin Rose20:49

      More of a what?

   7. TFTim Ferriss20:50

      Lex Fridman, who's actually a great podcaster. But somebody says this to me and I'm like, "What is this interaction about?" Like, this is such a bizarre interaction. That, like, archetype, which is at the nexus of a bunch of circles, including something called conspirituality. Whoever came up with that, high five, one of the best words ever. But this, like, conspirituality that seems to have taken as its HQ Austin-

   8. KRKevin Rose21:16

      You started this shit

   9. TFTim Ferriss21:17

      ... drives me cuckoo bananas. I, I did not start the conspirituality.

   10. KRKevin Rose21:21

       I mean, you... No, but you were one of the first people I heard talking about ayahuasca and shit.

   11. TFTim Ferriss21:24

       Well, yeah, that's true, and then as soon as something... As, as soon as something is popular enough that people are doing it because it's popular, then I'm, I'm like, "I wanna just exit stage left."

   12. KRKevin Rose21:34

       Yeah.

   13. TFTim Ferriss21:35

       I saw this piece in the New York Post about socialites using ayahuasca to do God knows what, and it's just the same status bullshit, the cars, the good, the goodies that you show to your friends. Like, all the status stuff that drives me completely nuts. And, uh, look, I'm sure I play some of those games myself, because we're human and we all play some of those games.

   14. KRKevin Rose21:59

       I don't know that you do. Like, I know you-

   15. TFTim Ferriss22:01

       Well, I've never-

   16. KRKevin Rose22:02

       Yeah

   17. TFTim Ferriss22:02

       ... seen you drive a crazy car.

   18. KRKevin Rose22:03

       No.

   19. TFTim Ferriss22:04

       You always have shitty cars. [laughs]

   20. KRKevin Rose22:06

       Yeah. Yeah.

   21. TFTim Ferriss22:07

       It's true.

   22. KRKevin Rose22:07

       I do. It's true. It's true. And yeah, I don't... I- in that way, I don't play any-

   23. TFTim Ferriss22:11

       Yeah

   24. KRKevin Rose22:12

       ... of those games, uh, or I try not to.

   25. TFTim Ferriss22:13

       And your houses have always been very reasonable.

   26. KRKevin Rose22:15

       Yeah. Yeah, they're modest.

   27. TFTim Ferriss22:17

       You know?

   28. KRKevin Rose22:17

       Uh, I-

   29. TFTim Ferriss22:18

       You have a private jet, but that's-

   30. KRKevin Rose22:21

       [laughs] Yeah, you know, aside from my fleet of Gulf-
8. 26:57 – 32:20

   Opening the doors of perception with prescription and meditation.

   1. TFTim Ferriss26:57

      Why would you want to do, say, ayahuasca? What would, uh, what would the, the pull be potentially?

   2. KRKevin Rose27:04

      Well, I mean, for me, I, I have had a few experiences on, on psychedelics that every drug that you take is a little bit different, right?

   3. TFTim Ferriss27:16

      Mm-hmm.

   4. KRKevin Rose27:16

      Like, you have a different door open, right?

   5. TFTim Ferriss27:18

      Yeah.

   6. KRKevin Rose27:18

      Like, high-dose weed is gonna feel d- very different than high-dose mushrooms-

   7. TFTim Ferriss27:22

      Yeah

   8. KRKevin Rose27:22

      ... 'cause it's gonna feel very different than microdosed acid, which I'm just talking about the things that I've, I've tried.

   9. TFTim Ferriss27:28

      Mm.

   10. KRKevin Rose27:29

       So I imagine there's another door to open there.

   11. TFTim Ferriss27:31

       Poofing ketamine, different door.

   12. KRKevin Rose27:33

       Ketamine, very different.

   13. TFTim Ferriss27:34

       [laughs]

   14. KRKevin Rose27:34

       I've done, I've done ketamine before in a therapeutic setting, and it was, it was, it was actually the most pleasant, like, chill thing I've ever done. Like, it's just, like, just chill, [laughs] you know?

   15. TFTim Ferriss27:42

       [laughs] Watch out for the long-term brain damage if you guys ever do it.

   16. KRKevin Rose27:45

       Yeah.

   17. TFTim Ferriss27:46

       [laughs] We'll, we'll get into that in another episode.

   18. KRKevin Rose27:47

       Yeah, so, you know, for me, I'm trying to figure out, and this is w- on, onto my first point about my, my seven-day retreat that I'm gonna do.

   19. TFTim Ferriss27:56

       Wow, that was, that was a good head fake. Did you answer my question? [laughs]

   20. KRKevin Rose27:58

       No, no, no. What I'm, what I'm saying is that I, I wanna, I wanna open as many doors as possible during this lifetime.

   21. TFTim Ferriss28:04

       Ah.

   22. KRKevin Rose28:04

       Like, why not, you know?

   23. TFTim Ferriss28:05

       Yeah. Okay. All right. Hey.

   24. KRKevin Rose28:07

       It's not to say I'm gonna go and, and, and stick to one door and be down that path for the next, you know-

   25. TFTim Ferriss28:11

       Yeah

   26. KRKevin Rose28:11

       ... six months, but why not just try it? Like, I'm, we're gonna be dead in 40 years.

   27. TFTim Ferriss28:14

       [laughs] True, despite, despite all the people-

   28. KRKevin Rose28:18

       Yeah

   29. TFTim Ferriss28:19

       ... skipping lunch and dinner [laughs] in hopes of-

   30. KRKevin Rose28:21

       Exactly
9. 32:20 – 44:38

   Movies we've been watching.

   1. KRKevin Rose32:20

      anything you've enjoyed watching recently? Yes. I was gonna get into some of the... I figure we could do, 'cause it's been a while since we've hung out, and I'm sure, you know, with COVID and everything else- Yeah ... we, we've hit some good movies. Yeah. I was gonna give you, like, my- Favorite porn search terms? [laughs] ... five bullet, five bullet movie list. [laughs] 'Cause I know you love five bullets. I do. I actually have five bullets right here. Oh, look at that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love bullets. All right. [laughs] You love those bullets. Uh- I do ... how about my five bullet movie list, and then you tell me yes or no, whether you like these, whether you've seen them. Oh, great, yeah. That's easy. And then you do the same for me. You got five? I do not have five. I have one. All right. But, uh, [laughs] Good, good, good job. [laughs] But it has six episodes- Okay ... so technic- technically, I think I have six and you have five. Okay, sweet. Okay. [laughs] So. Six-bullet Friday. [laughs] All right. So the new Top Gun, fucking great. Fantastic. Can you believe that he did all that flying himself? It's unbelievable. I mean, the, the fact that he is still doing so many of his own stunts is- It's insane ... incredible. And it's, it's got- Makes you wanna pick up Scientology. [laughs] You know, you're in the right place. Yeah, exactly. [laughs] It's true. The, the real reason that Kevin moved to LA. Yeah. [laughs] That is not the case. [laughs] I, I thought Maverick was fantastic. So good. Saw it in IMAX. I hadn't seen anything on IMAX in a long time, and I was like, "All right, like, if we're gonna do it, let's actually do it." I really went into it being like, "Oh, Jesus. I hope they don't ruin this," you know? Yeah. Like, another Top Gun. Yeah. Is this gonna be cheesy? And I walked away being like, "Damn, that was good." Oh, it was great. It was really good. It was fantastic. And, uh, I mean, it's... There have been also a lot of filmmakers who have enjoyed it, not that that's my indicator. I just thought it'd be fun to go see a old school, all the tropes- Yeah ... like, use all the cliches because they work. Oh, the music. [sings] Yeah. Uh, yeah, absolutely. It's so good. Just you know exactly what you're signing up for. Yeah. And it's like having something that reliable and uplifting is feel like really reassuring in a world of increasingly chaotic uncertainty. It's like, yeah, you know when you go to see fucking Maverick, it's not gonna end with, like, an orphan kid dying. Right. You know that that's not the ending. [laughs] All right. So the next, next movie, The, The Price of Everything. Have you seen that? Price of Everything. Is this an art doc? Yes. Yes. It's a good- I saw it a long time... Yeah, I saw it quite a few years ago. Yeah, I really, really enjoyed it. Okay, cool. So why don't you... You've seen it much more recently, though. Yeah. I mean, it's, it basically just gives you, if you're ever curious, uh, kind of the behind the scenes of the contemporary art world, what goes on at auction, how these artists make their art. They actually, which is crazy, they actually hire, like, people to do the art for them. Some of them do, yeah. Yeah, some of them do. It's just a crazy behind-the-scenes view of the art world. And for someone that's into NFTs, it was just like, I learned a lot. So highly recommend it. It is a wild romp through contemporary art. And if you're in the camp of, let's just say, advocate, right, you really enjoy contemporary art, you'll get a lot out of it. And also if, if you think that much of contemporary art is complete horseshit, you will also get a lot out of it [laughs] because- Yeah ... neither camp is gonna be disappointed. [laughs] Yeah. Uh, hey, love, can I have a little sippers of something you find? Thank you. Uh, not a beer, just, like, any wine or anything. Thank you. So The Price of Everything. The next one, Elvis. I have not- The new Elvis film. Oh, look at that. There we go. Bam. Thank you. Look at that bling. [laughs] So the new Elvis film, so here's the deal, I don't care about Elvis. Who cares about Elvis, right? Like, I, I didn't think- [laughs] Okay. No, seriously. Yeah. I, I was like, Elvis, old people, blah, blah, blah. You watch Elvis, this, this new movie- So why did you go to it? [laughs] Um, Conan Gray actually told me it was fantastic. Oh, all right. And so I put it on, and I was blown away. Oh. Because Elvis was a misfit. Like, he grew up in a Black neighborhood. Yeah. That's wh- how he got a lot of that kind of soul vibe, like, that came through in his music. Yeah. And then also he was, like, thrown in jail because of the way he moved his hips and shit. [laughs] Like, that, these were the times back then, right? Yeah, yeah. And so, like, he got on stage and would, like, just, like, make his finger move and stuff to, like, like, get the crowd going and shit- [laughs] ... 'cause he couldn't move his hips otherwise he'd be thrown in jail. It's a brilliant story. Then it shows how he got hooked on drugs. Mm-hmm. Whenever I thought of Elvis, I thought of this, like, kind of Vegas singer, overweight, passed away. Oh, I don't know much about ... I learned a lot, and he reminds me of just any other icon. I, I can see why he's so massive. I l- I ... It was like a history lesson in a movie.

   2. TFTim Ferriss36:51

      Cool.

   3. KRKevin Rose36:51

      So I highly recommend it.

   4. TFTim Ferriss36:52

      Yeah.

   5. KRKevin Rose36:52

      Yeah.

   6. TFTim Ferriss36:53

      I'll check it out.

   7. KRKevin Rose36:53

      You should.

   8. TFTim Ferriss36:54

      I'll tell you, it looked like the cinematography was beautiful-

   9. KRKevin Rose36:56

      He-

   10. TFTim Ferriss36:56

       ... just based on the preview.

   11. KRKevin Rose36:57

       Fantastic. Yeah. I w- I was not expecting to love an Elvis movie. That is not me, right?

   12. TFTim Ferriss37:02

       Right. Yeah.

   13. KRKevin Rose37:02

       But I, I walked away being like, "He was a badass," a lot cooler than I thought.

   14. TFTim Ferriss37:06

       Cool. I'll check it out.

   15. KRKevin Rose37:06

       Yeah. Um, next one, Everything Everywhere All at Once.

   16. TFTim Ferriss37:10

       Yes.

   17. KRKevin Rose37:11

       So good.

   18. TFTim Ferriss37:12

       It was great, and I'll, I'll give you a bit of trivia maybe if you have not heard this already. I was watching it and Michelle Yeoh's husband, from within 30 seconds I was like, "I know that guy."

   19. KRKevin Rose37:27

       You mean Goonies?

   20. TFTim Ferriss37:28

       Yes, exactly.

   21. KRKevin Rose37:29

       Yeah.

   22. TFTim Ferriss37:29

       I was like, "Data from The Goonies," within, like, 30 seconds. I'm just so glad that that guy got work again. [laughs]

   23. KRKevin Rose37:37

       He's still around.

   24. TFTim Ferriss37:37

       Yeah. I mean, he could have ended up in a million different places, and the fact that he's in ... He, he ... I'm s- sure he's m- maybe been in-

   25. KRKevin Rose37:44

       He looks good, too

   26. TFTim Ferriss37:44

       ... s- m- been in maybe many, many, many other films. But to end up in this as such a, I don't wanna say sleeper hit, but, like, unexpected, I would imagine, mega hit-

   27. KRKevin Rose37:54

       He just ... Well, so I, I made Daria watch it and, and she was just like, "What the hell am I watching?"

   28. TFTim Ferriss37:58

       [laughs]

   29. KRKevin Rose37:59

       It's a weird ass film.

   30. TFTim Ferriss38:00

       It's a super bizarre movie.
10. 44:38 – 50:55

    A peek into a world-building, fictional foray.

    1. TFTim Ferriss44:38

       recommendation.

    2. KRKevin Rose44:39

       Can I pick your brain a little bit here, or just maybe get you to divulge a little bit here?

    3. TFTim Ferriss44:44

       [laughs]

    4. KRKevin Rose44:45

       You've talked, you've mentioned now a couple times about doing a little bit of writing in this genre. You're not doing a book.

    5. TFTim Ferriss44:52

       No.

    6. KRKevin Rose44:53

       But you're doing something ... I mean, I think now's the time to start kinda teasing things out a little bit. Can you just tell us what, what is Tim working on these days? Like, and you don't have to go into a lot of detail.

    7. TFTim Ferriss45:03

       [laughs]

    8. KRKevin Rose45:04

       But can you, can you give us a little bit of like, "I'm, I'm fleshing out, uh, doing this," or maybe pushing here, or can you-

    9. TFTim Ferriss45:10

       Well, I, here's what I'll say. I'll say that, that I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna ... Hey, Toasty. I'm not gonna divulge too much. But I will say that I've been experimenting with fiction for about a year and a half, two years.

    10. KRKevin Rose45:25

        Well, you did the NFT with, with us, which is great to bring up.

    11. TFTim Ferriss45:27

        Well, I was just about to bring it up.

    12. KRKevin Rose45:28

        Yeah.

    13. TFTim Ferriss45:28

        So my first NFT experiment, thanks to your encouragement, was-

    14. KRKevin Rose45:32

        Mm-hmm

    15. TFTim Ferriss45:32

        ... a short fiction piece called, uh, If You Want to Start a War. And I really enjoyed the process of putting that together, and specifically the writing process of playing with fiction, and in that particular case, it was very strongly based on real events. It's fiction, but a lot of it was based on real people and real events, which makes it even spookier, if people want to [laughs] check that out. Uh, and we did that through Grails-

    16. KRKevin Rose46:04

        Mm-hmm

    17. TFTim Ferriss46:04

        ... which was great. And I'm continuing to work those muscles after a lot of conversations with people like Steven Pressfield and others who n- who have been very encouraging. I may have some stuff to show in the next few months.

    18. KRKevin Rose46:21

        Cool.

    19. TFTim Ferriss46:21

        I'll, I'll, yeah, I'll, I'll put it, I'll put it that way. But it has been a great excuse to read and watch a lot of fiction, sci-fi and, and fantasy primarily, and have learned so much. I've ended up going really deep. So with Ursula K. Le Guin, for instance, who was a huge influence on Neil Gaiman, whose writing I've loved for a very long time, including books that I've recommended probably on previous Random Shows many years ago-

    20. KRKevin Rose46:51

        Mm-hmm

    21. TFTim Ferriss46:51

        ... like The Graveyard Book, which is just fantastic. If people only read nonfiction and you want a easy gateway drug, try that out. The audiobook by Neil Gaiman is fantastic. In any case, so I'm, I'm working as I'm thinking about fiction through these influences and lineages, right? So I'm looking at Neil Gaiman, like all sorts of aspects of his process and writing, and then I hear him talking about Ursula K. Le Guin. Then I go on Twitter and ask people, "If I'm only gonna read one of her books, which one should I read?" Get a whole host of answers. Start with The Wizard of Earthsea. That leads me somewhere else. Then I watch a PBS documentary on her life, and then learn about A, B, and C, and just following the breadcrumbs-

    22. KRKevin Rose47:39

        Yeah

    23. TFTim Ferriss47:39

        ... of my curiosity in that way has, has-

    24. KRKevin Rose47:42

        So Tim, I've seen you like-

    25. TFTim Ferriss47:43

        ... been a while

    26. KRKevin Rose47:43

        ... I've seen you like this of a handful of times.

    27. TFTim Ferriss47:45

        Yeah.

    28. KRKevin Rose47:46

        I've seen you write a handful of books now. We've been friends that long.

    29. TFTim Ferriss47:48

        Yeah.

    30. KRKevin Rose47:49

        And I see when you go down rabbit holes, and I, I n- I see this, I see this.
11. 50:55 – 52:05

    Are we too old for podcasting?

    1. KRKevin Rose50:56

       Sweet. Should we-- I've got a couple-- I know we're coming up on an hour here, but I've got a couple more quick little things that are fun to, to-

    2. TFTim Ferriss51:02

       I'm gonna put it on an hour? How old are we? Jesus. [laughs]

    3. KRKevin Rose51:04

       I know. [laughs] It's like, like it's time to go to bed. It's nine, it's 9:45.

    4. TFTim Ferriss51:08

       It's 9:45, time to have my warm milk and go to bed.

    5. KRKevin Rose51:12

       Exactly.

    6. TFTim Ferriss51:12

       Put on my overalls. [laughs]

    7. KRKevin Rose51:15

       Can I have a little more Champarz love? Thank you. Tim needs a little splash of something too.

    8. TFTim Ferriss51:19

       Oh, absolutely. Carbonated water's great for me. [laughs]

    9. KRKevin Rose51:23

       [laughs] Um, so this is a fun one actually. This is completely off topic, but I thought it was just, it's such a fun little hack.

    10. TFTim Ferriss51:32

        [laughs] I love how this is off topic for the Random Show.

    11. KRKevin Rose51:35

        Yeah.

    12. TFTim Ferriss51:36

        Let's go.

    13. KRKevin Rose51:36

        It's gonna be worth it. Thank you very much.

    14. TFTim Ferriss51:37

        Exactly. Really appreciate it.

    15. KRKevin Rose51:39

        So one of the things that I love about the Random Show is we can bring up anything, and it's just like, it's like what are we excited about? What little hacks are we finding? And we used to do a lot of that back in the day.

    16. TFTim Ferriss51:48

        [laughs]

    17. KRKevin Rose51:50

        Now that we're old-

    18. TFTim Ferriss51:50

        Now we're just old and lazy.

    19. KRKevin Rose51:51

        Yeah, we're like-

    20. TFTim Ferriss51:52

        Tired

    21. KRKevin Rose51:52

        ... we, we could-

    22. TFTim Ferriss51:53

        Hacks? Who has time for that?

    23. KRKevin Rose51:55

        We were definitely joking about this before we went live. We're gonna talk about, like, what cholesterol medicine we're on and shit. [laughs]

    24. TFTim Ferriss51:59

        Oh, yeah, I was just saying the 20-year-old versions of us would be so disappointed.

    25. KRKevin Rose52:03

        So disappointed.

    26. TFTim Ferriss52:03

        [laughs]

12. 52:05 – 54:45

    Should you buy I bonds right now? (Reminder: not financial advice!)

    1. KRKevin Rose52:05

       Um, so inflation is, is, is, uh, is a bitch right now, right?

    2. TFTim Ferriss52:10

       Yeah.

    3. KRKevin Rose52:10

       It's, it's kinda going crazy. One of the things that-

    4. TFTim Ferriss52:14

       It's like $34 avocado toast here in Santa Monica.

    5. KRKevin Rose52:16

       Yeah. It's, it's not cheap.

    6. TFTim Ferriss52:17

       People are hurting.

    7. KRKevin Rose52:18

       We gotta go tomorrow, by the way.

    8. TFTim Ferriss52:19

       Yeah. [laughs]

    9. KRKevin Rose52:19

       I know a great place we're gonna take you to. So one of the things that I've always generally avoided are just bonds, government bonds in, in, in... Because the, the interest rates have been shit, right?

    10. TFTim Ferriss52:30

        Yeah.

    11. KRKevin Rose52:31

        So they have something called the I bonds. And so I bonds-

    12. TFTim Ferriss52:36

        I, letter I.

    13. KRKevin Rose52:37

        Yeah, letter I. And so I bonds, um-

    14. TFTim Ferriss52:39

        Dumb, dumb question.

    15. KRKevin Rose52:40

        Yeah.

    16. TFTim Ferriss52:41

        I bonds?

    17. KRKevin Rose52:41

        Yeah, exactly.

    18. TFTim Ferriss52:42

        EYE.

    19. KRKevin Rose52:42

        Not the EYE.

    20. TFTim Ferriss52:43

        [laughs]

    21. KRKevin Rose52:44

        So the letter I bonds, um, you can buy directly on TreasuryDirect.gov, which is the government website. And I've done this over the last couple of years, and it, it's really, it's great. They max out at 10K, so the most you can put in is 10 grand, and you can do it for you, your spouse can have one, and then also you can do it for your kids as well. And right now, the I bond is based on the, the current inflation plus interest on top of that. So you get 9.62% from the government.

    22. TFTim Ferriss53:17

        Hmm.

    23. KRKevin Rose53:17

        Like, that's good, right?

    24. TFTim Ferriss53:20

        Yeah.

    25. KRKevin Rose53:20

        And, and granted, that can change with inflation and all that, but, like, I'll lock in that rate any day. Like, I'll go for that for sure.

    26. TFTim Ferriss53:26

        Yeah.

    27. KRKevin Rose53:26

        So, you know, I, you can g- if you have $100, you can do it.

    28. TFTim Ferriss53:29

        Yeah.

    29. KRKevin Rose53:29

        This, this is applicable to pretty much everyone, right?

    30. TFTim Ferriss53:31

        Hmm.
13. 54:45 – 57:31

    Lessons from Amy Tan.

    1. KRKevin Rose54:45

       So I got a couple... I, I'm not sure this is count as a hack, but I'll just, I'll lump it in

    2. TFTim Ferriss54:50

       Or include it because it relates to thematically the stuff that's going on in my mind, and that is I watched a Masterclass, so company's Masterclass, they have all these various instructionals with people in every discipline you can imagine, including a number that I've already mentioned, like Neil Gaiman. And they had one with Amy Tan, who's a very famous novelist, and the first few segments in particular I found incredibly compelling, and she's so eloquent also. She's [laughs] she seems to speak in finished prose, and I only know a few people like that, and it always just blows my mind that they're able to do that. Sam Harris would be another one. Oh, man. Waking Up app. Remember, a [laughs] side note, I don't think Sam would mind me asking, at one point I was listening to his many meditations, and I listened to one and I texted him and I said, "Sam, is there any chance I could get the text for, like, the X, Y, and Z episode?" And he's like, "What do you mean the text?" And I'm like, "The script that you used for recording the A, B, and C part of that episode." And he goes, "Oh, I don't, I don't use scripts." [laughs] I was like, and I was like, "Oh, yeah, you and I are just different animals." [laughs] Different species entirely. So the- That's impressive he just wings it- Oh, man ... 'cause it's good, it's good content. I mean, he is... Yeah, he just has different hardware. Uh, and it's, it's not just a, it's not born that way. I recognize it's also a skill that he's developed. But Amy Tan, similar. Very, very well-spoken and extremely good at explaining how she approaches different facets of fiction and how she has pulled from her own life. She also has an entire segment where she goes through a- all of the rejection letters, or at least some of the, some of the most notable of the rejection letters that she got in the beginning. Just rejection after rejection after rejection. What was cool that you don't see, at least I didn't see when I got a lot of my rejections, is fiction editors in a number of cases gave her great feedback on her manuscripts. So they read the whole thing, and then they were like, "This is, this is what you could do to improve this part, and here are three other things you could do to really strengthen this aspect of it." You just, at least in my experience, don't get that from rejections in nonfiction. So it was, it was cool to see- Hmm ... not just how she thought about responding to criticism, she was actually really grateful for a lot of the letters, but also how much she gained from the feedback and then- Hmm ... used to iterate her fiction, which is just fantastic.

14. 57:31 – 58:36

    How we get suckered into paying for services we haven't used in years.

    1. TFTim Ferriss57:31

       Do you do the monthly on that Masterclass, or do you do the yearly? I did neither. In this particular case, I got a- A freebie? ... a freebie on, like, Delta Airlines or United or somewhere. Oh. Yeah. I just keep getting billed for that shit. [laughs] It drives me nuts. I always think I'm gonna, like, watch a bunch of them, you know? Yeah. [laughs] And I sign up for- I mean, I'm still paying for Match.com and, because I could not figure out how to cancel the thing. [laughs] And it's like I haven't used Match in, [laughs] like, 20 years. So you're welcome, Match.com. Yeah. [laughs] I still get fucked on a few things. Sponsor some episodes. [laughs] There's like two or three things I just can't figure out how to cancel. [laughs] Like, seriously. And, and you know what's funny? Is they, I figured it out. They only bill you close to midnight- Yeah ... because they know the push notifications come through. The other night I was up late and it was like 11:30 and I had one of those pop down and it was the yearly thing. Oh, clever. Yeah. Clever. And I'm like, "You fucker," and then I went to bed and I just [laughs] forgot even know who it is. [laughs] I forgot. But they, they got me. [laughs] It sucks. Ugh, you know? Hey, that's what growth hacking's for. Yeah, exactly. [laughs] Uh, let's see here.

15. 58:36 – 1:00:55

    Fat, bald, and bastardly is no way to go through life, son.

    1. TFTim Ferriss58:36

       So physical training, I've been thinking a lot about physical training. I have a- You've got a gut now, dude. [laughs] I have a little bit of a gut. Geez, yeah, I mean, look, look at, look at this shit. Don't be talking about it. [laughs] You're, you're as fat as I am. You're like Fat Bast- You're definitely as fat as I am. I'm not. I'm not. Are you kidding me? No. You're, like, f- Pull up your gut ... you're like, you're like Fat Bastard from- Let me see. Let me see ... [laughs] Austin Powers. Let me see it. Let me see. Okay, I'm definitely skinnier than you, dude. What? Are you jo- You won't even... Oh, no, no way. Let me feel that. Okay, you're a little skinnier. [laughs] Not like I'm not proud of that. I'm not so, I'm not proud. Uh, and I'm not gonna blame it on age, although I guess [laughs] I will say things are slowing down, [laughs] that's for sure. Yeah. Uh, but I have actually lost a decent amount of this baby fat using a couple of- It's not baby fat anymore, dude. [laughs] It's geriatric fat. Yeah. Uh, [laughs] with a few simple things. One is a sled. So I have something called the XPO Trainer that is a mechanically assisted, or I should say mechanically resisted sled, so you don't have to load it with plates, and it's on inflatable, I think they're inflatable, one may be solid rubber, tires so you can use them on, say, a driveway. And I've been using the XPO Trainer plus some jump rope, which is very minimal. Like- Jump rope is hard, dude. It's, yeah, I'll, I, I do that for, like, 5 or 10 minutes. It's- Doesn't it kill you? I did jump rope recently and I was, like, dead afterwards. It's hard, yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of the point in the beginning. So- Yeah, I know, but, like, I- [laughs] ... I thought it was gonna be, like, some schoolyard shit. That shit's difficult. [laughs] Oh, no, it's hard. It's hard. So I'll do, I'll do the jump rope, then the XPO Trainer, and then kettlebells, and I have some alternation, but most mornings I will do some combination of those things. And I've been doing, I mean, it's pretty easy for me to do intermittent fasting, so I'm just doing late lunch, early dinner- Hmm ... typically. Can we get one of those croissants in the morning I was telling you about? [laughs] I mean, look, man, I haven't seen you in what? Like, 27 years. So- You're on vacation. Yeah. Just, like, I mean, if I use travel as vacation equals I can eat butter cookies anytime I want- [laughs] ... I'm gonna turn, I will turn into Fat Bastard from Austin Powers, which is not the look I'm going for, especially, like, imagine bald Fat Bastard. That's not good. No, you don't want that. No. All right. What else you got here? Um, yeah, so-

16. 1:00:55 – 1:02:18

    Supernatural fitness: the only thing Kevin likes about VR.

    1. KRKevin Rose1:00:55

       I think the last thing for me was that I, I did one of these full-body scans. What? Oh, yeah. So, yeah, Daria's telling me it is true. [laughs] I do, I do Supern-

    2. SPSpeaker1:01:05

       We're gonna cut in a video of you doing Supernatural

    3. KRKevin Rose1:01:06

       ... no, we're not cutting a video of me doing Supernatural. [laughs] I do a VR workout called Supernatural three times a week. Have you tried this? I have no idea what you're talking about. Oh, my God. We c- have to get Tim to do it right after this, right? Yes. You're gonna freak out, dude. Okay. It's really good. I hate VR. It's stupid. [laughs] Yeah, you- This is amazing. Yeah, well, I, I love that you've been [laughs] like short VR for like the last 10 years. W- w- And I've made good money being short VR. But you, you now own a VR device. Yeah. Well, I've had a VR device. You have to play with all the latest shit if you're a technologist. Yeah, all right. I'm just saying that like it's dumb except for this app. [laughs] This app's amazing. So Supernatural is a, is, it's a, like you have two lightsabers. Okay. And you have to slice shit in the air, and it sounds like... It, it's not Fruit Ninja. It's like way better than that. [laughs] It's done to music. It's choreographed to music. It's amazing. [laughs] Okay. Tim, you're allowed to do it. Watch. Sounds amazing. I mean, fuck, lightsabers, chopping things. Yeah, you'll love it. Choreographed to music, I mean, that's three for three for me. Exactly. [laughs] So... Anyway, Supernatural's how I get my, um, my hit in every, almost like every other day pretty much. Okay. [laughs] So, so more, [laughs] more slicing and less jump rope. Yeah. It's, it's- You'll like it. [laughs] We'll try it. And more, more croissants. We're gonna try it afterwards. [laughs]

17. 1:02:18 – 1:11:01

    Why you might want to consider getting a full-body MRI scan.

    1. KRKevin Rose1:02:18

       Um, so that's my big thing. The other thing I was gonna say is I did one of those full-body MRI scans called Pronova. Oh, yeah. Pronova. Yeah, I know we should talk about this. This is something I need to get on. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I, you know what? Honestly, it was like, I don't know if it was my mom getting cancer, I think I did it before that, but like it was just one of those things where I got to the stage r- in life where I, I had a couple little girls and I'm like, uh, you know, I... Yeah, Tia was telling me. Mm-hmm. He was like, "Hey, you know, you can do these. You're at the age now where it makes sense. See if anything shows up." They can detect like, it, it's, it's, it's something like 80% of cancer is at stage one- Yeah ... which is amazing. Yeah. And so I was like, "Okay, let's do it." So I went and did it two years ago, came back. You know, all the standard stuff like, "Oh, we see this here, but, you know, that's normal," la, la, la. Like, "This is a little bit weird, you have an extra vertebrae," which I actually do, which is weird. Um, so o- o- A little vestigial tail. Yeah, [laughs] exactly. A bunch of shit like that. Hey, ladies. [laughs] So, uh, I, I do that and then I go for year two, and I go and get the scan again, and they call me up and they're, they're like, "Yeah, it turns out you have a little brain aneurysm, a little s- a little small brain aneurysm." Oh, man. And I'm like, I'm like, "What the fuck?" Like, "This is crazy. Okay, tell me more." And then after the fact, like a month later, or not a month later, but a few weeks later, my doctor, uh, calls them and says, "Hey, what, what, what did we see on the first scan?" They found it on the first scan as well. It hadn't changed, which is great. Yeah. And it's super tiny. It's the smallest... My doctor said if they hadn't been using the latest tech, they wouldn't even have detected it at all- Yeah ... 'cause it was so small. So it's only one millimeter, and they don't treat them till they get to seven millimeters. Yeah. So it's like it's totally fine. You wanna keep your blood pressure low and all that. But it's also, it's weird because in some sense, like you wanna detect those stage one cancers, but there's a lot of false positives. Not that this- Yeah ... is a false positive. It's something to pay attention to. Certainly changing my dietary actions in terms of keeping sodium low and like lowering my blood pressure. Yeah. But it's something you should do. You know? Which is why we're having croissants and coffee tomorrow. [laughs] Exactly. Well, I mean, that's not gonna mess with my blood pressure. I'm just fucking with you. [laughs] But, you know, it's, it's like- So h- I mean, was that, I would imagine that to be terrifying. I... Yeah. It's 45 minutes, so it's fast. And they- Not the procedure, the review of the results. Yeah, I mean, you go through it, and I have a couple spots on my brain, and they, they told me you're allowed one per decade, and so they're like, "You're fine. You have, you know, two or three, whatever. That's fine." I'm like, "Okay, this still doesn't sound good." [laughs] Like- "Don't worry." Yeah. "It's like a bruised apple, but that's fine." [laughs] Yeah, and then they're like, they're like, "Your lymph nodes..." This is the first scan. They're like, "Your lymph nodes are really swollen on the left side." I'm like, "Cool. Like what does that mean?" [laughs] And they, they're like, "Did you get your, your COVID vaccine on that side?" I'm like, "Yeah, I did." And they're like, "Okay, that's why." Mm. And then that would turn out to be fine. And then, you know, they found like some other shit, like there's a little bit of like, uh, a little... [laughs] A little tail? [laughs] No, there's like a, a little like, like I have this little tiny bulge in my right nut sack. [laughs] That, that, it, it's just, it's kinda like the, the little stringy thing that connects to the sack- [laughs] ... kinda bulges out a little bit. And they're like, "That's totally normal." Yeah. "It's not cancer. You're fine," blah, blah, blah. So like, you know, it's just [laughs] little shit like that where you're just like, "Cool." Oh, my God, I can't wait until our [laughs] random shows when we're like [laughs] in our 60s and 70s. It's just gonna be a litany- My prostate ... of injuries and prostate complaints. Exactly. Oh, my God. So- I still have humidity ... let me just rewind. So I make sure- Wait, well, well- No, just m- make sure I'm hearing you correctly. So were you pissed that they did not tell you the first time? That it hadn't changed, yeah. That they didn't spot it- You know- ... first time around ... I think it was, it was so small that they just, they have different... It's not a radiologist, whoever it is that reviews it. It's probably a radiologist. Is it? I think it is. I think the first person w- was like, "This is so insignificant, I don't even need to call it out," and the second one called it out. Yeah. They were just like... And then they compared the notes and it was fine. This is the story I haven't told. A friend of mine went in, had a scan. They found a growth in his brain, non-cancerous, a decent size. Operated, removed it. He's fine, but he didn't even know he had it. Yeah. And he was just going in for, for a thing, and it was growing. Yeah. And, and it saved his life most likely. Yeah. That's, that's wild. And so it's shit like that, and the, and the, the radiologist, when I talked to him, he said the number... He goes, "I don't really drink." He goes, "But the number of bottles of wine I get in the mail from people that are like, 'You saved my life because you found this at stage one or stage two'" Yeah. I don't know. It's just one of those things where get your diagnostics, folks. And I mean, do it more fre-

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:07:01

       Hesitate to say this, but like, don't, don't push out the interval. If you're supposed to get something every five years, if anything, get it more frequently. Don't push it out. I had... So I've have recently had the opposite experience with a friend of mine who went in for a routine exam, stage four cancer, terminal.

    3. KRKevin Rose1:07:21

       Holy shit.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:07:21

       And I just, uh, spent several days with him and, uh, not be-

    5. KRKevin Rose1:07:27

       Which type of cancer?

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:07:27

       Not because... I don't wanna give specifics just in case people, like-

    7. KRKevin Rose1:07:30

       Yeah

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:07:30

       ... triangulate stuff, but it's metastasized. And at this point, surgery, at least some type of surgery don't make any sense. And man, if you want a proof point for what someone can do with decades of meditation practice, he is incredibly upbeat. He's super happy. He is as productive as he can be. He's spending a lot of time with loved ones, of course, but he is consciously choosing, of all the decision trees, a path of gratitude and not naive optimism, but optimism in the sense of looking at everything as-

    9. KRKevin Rose1:08:23

       Mm

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:08:23

        ... the glass half full. And I was so inspired by this because I'm going through some hard stuff myself, and to see someone in those circumstances able to demonstrate that, it just blew my mind.

    11. KRKevin Rose1:08:39

        Yeah.

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:08:39

        And I've spent... I know him well enough, and we've had enough interactions. I, I know it is not an act. It is not an act.

    13. KRKevin Rose1:08:45

        Oh.

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:08:45

        And I'm really impressed because that's not automatically the case. I mean, there are people, including famous, famous meditators who are world-famous teachers, who on their deathbeds or in the process of going through hospice, just say over and over again to their closest friends, like, "I don't wanna die. I don't wanna die. I don't wanna die," and they're afraid, which is understandable. I might be that person. [laughs] I mean, certainly. I have no confidence that I would end up responding the way my friend is responding, but it's been incredibly inspiring.

    15. KRKevin Rose1:09:17

        Wow.

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:09:18

        Yeah. And, uh, I mean, it's certainly sad in its own way, but a real gift that he's also giving those around him. It's incredible.

    17. KRKevin Rose1:09:28

        How are you doing with dealing with all that?

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:09:30

        [sighs] Uh, w- you mean with, with his situation?

    19. KRKevin Rose1:09:33

        This could be hard being a friend, is to having a friend go through something like that, you know?

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:09:37

        Uh-

    21. KRKevin Rose1:09:37

        Are you gonna see him again, do you think, before he passes, or is it something that's like-

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:09:40

        I would like to. I would like to. I mean, it's... I, I don't know how long the time horizon is. It's, it's, uh, it may not be that long. I am doing well with it because of how he is able to choose to respond to this unfolding story.

    23. KRKevin Rose1:10:06

        Yeah.

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:10:08

        Of course, it's sad on a number of levels, right? But I mean, we're all, we all have a one-way ticket as far as we know.

    25. KRKevin Rose1:10:15

        Yeah.

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:10:15

        You know? [laughs]

    27. KRKevin Rose1:10:16

        My, my dad, before he passed, said there's no lease on life. He just, like, wanted to remind me of that.

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:10:21

        Yeah.

    29. KRKevin Rose1:10:21

        Like, just like, you know, it's coming for all of us.

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:10:23

        Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, and it's not something you wanna think about all the time.
18. 1:11:01 – 1:13:38

    Mind over matter.

    1. KRKevin Rose1:11:01

       You know, um, I had Sam Harris on the podcast a while ago, a couple years ago, and we talked about the Buddhist monk that was sitting in a meditative pose on the cover of Rage Against the Machine.

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:11:12

       Yeah.

    3. KRKevin Rose1:11:12

       That had doused himself in gasoline in defiance of local government and lit himself on fire and did not flinch, and this has been recorded.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:11:23

       Yeah.

    5. KRKevin Rose1:11:23

       And there was pictures and everything else.

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:11:24

       Video. Video too.

    7. KRKevin Rose1:11:25

       He did not, did not move.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:11:27

       Yeah.

    9. KRKevin Rose1:11:28

       Holy shit. You wanna talk about meditation really working, like, oh my God. [laughs]

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:11:33

        Yeah. Yeah, I can't do that.

    11. KRKevin Rose1:11:35

        [laughs] Yeah. Jesus.

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:11:36

        I c- I could barely stay in a cold plunge this morning for three minutes. [laughs]

    13. KRKevin Rose1:11:39

        [laughs] So yeah.

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:11:42

        Yeah.

    15. KRKevin Rose1:11:42

        I was in the sauna today. I was like, "Oh, 15 minutes. I can make it 20? Okay, we're gonna go for it." [laughs] It's like-

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:11:47

        Yeah.

    17. KRKevin Rose1:11:47

        Yeah.

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:11:48

        Yeah, it is. It... I mean, it's, uh... You know, all these things are kind of pointing at... By all these things, I, I guess I'm bookending some of our earlier discussion that touched on psychedelics, and I mentioned psychiatry and these sort of tectonic plate shifts that I think are h- are currently underway but will be most noticeable five, 10 years from now. And the types of feats that we're describing all point to severe, I think, underappreciation for what we are capable of in terms of-

    19. KRKevin Rose1:12:29

        Yes

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:12:29

        ... shaping mind and consciousness.

    21. KRKevin Rose1:12:34

        Yeah.

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:12:35

        Right? Because lighting yourself on fire and not flinching should not be possible.

    23. KRKevin Rose1:12:38

        No.

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:12:38

        [laughs] Like, I'm not... [laughs]

    25. KRKevin Rose1:12:41

        Yeah.

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:12:41

        Clearly-

    27. KRKevin Rose1:12:41

        Not even David Blaine can do that shit

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:12:42

        ... like, no one... [laughs] Yeah. No one wants to end up having to test that.

    29. KRKevin Rose1:12:46

        Right.

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:12:47

        But there are a lot of outcomes that we're seeing, say, in treating various diagnoses related to, I don't wanna say mental illness, but psychiatric conditions that are considered intractable or extremely difficult to treat. And some of the outcomes that we're seeing, which are not solely- Produced through psychedelics. I don't want to make psychedelics sound like a panacea of any type. They're not. They have s- in some cases, very significant risks. But it's, it's clear that many of the paradigms through which we've treated patients, specifically with any type of what we would consider mental illness, is, is likely resting on a number of assumptions that are completely untrue.
19. 1:13:38 – 1:21:53

    What the current state of medicine hints about its future.

    1. KRKevin Rose1:13:38

       I remember our friend, Dr. Weil, 20 years ago, was speaking about chemotherapy and said how barbaric it will look in the future.

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:13:49

       Hm.

    3. KRKevin Rose1:13:49

       And it turns out that is actually true. We have immunotherapy now. My mom's going through it. Like, there's a lot of these things that are very, very promising, and we're just, like, a few years away from some s- really exciting breakthroughs. I'm not sure if you saw that, that New York Times article about the, uh, it was like eight out of eight patients cured with this new type of immunotherapy in cancer.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:14:07

       No.

    5. KRKevin Rose1:14:07

       Did you see that?

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:14:08

       Mm-mm.

    7. KRKevin Rose1:14:08

       It was a groundbreaking, crazy study about this new type of immunotherapy that's just now coming out here soon. But I'd imagine the same is true for psychedelics, right? Like, you know, 20 years from now, they'll have honed it in-

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:14:20

       Yeah

    9. KRKevin Rose1:14:20

       ... and figured out the right dose, the right... I mean, they may even modify those molecules. Like, who knows where it's gonna go? But it's gonna be exciting.

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:14:29

        It, it is gonna be exciting. I, I think the... You know, we're all driven by our beliefs, right, these thoughts we take to be true, and assumptions. Even scientists are subject to this, right? I mean, scientists are not robots. And so you have anyone doing anything comes in with a certain set of, of, uh, biases or biases. And in psychedelics, you see also, in the, in the psychedelic for-profit sector, you see a lot of motivated reasoning where you, you have a number of split camps and different kinda schisms within these communities, and one of them is between camp A, and camp A believes that many of the clinical outcomes for depression and PTSD and so on are driven by the content of an experience and the narrative that you can restructure, uh, after you observe it for the first time, perhaps, right? The software that's r- that's behind many of your decisions, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They think it's the content, in which case, if that is your belief, and in an ideal world you would be able to test these things definitively, and many people are making attempts at this, but it's, it's really challenging, then you want enough workspace to allow all that to play out. So let's just say psilocybin and having a session of four to six hours would be viewed as a feature and not a bug. Then you have camp B, which is saying, oh yeah, all those hallucinations, terrible side effects. Really what's happening is on this structural level and this type of XYZ is happening to this receptor and da, da, da, da, and we can do all of that if we change the molecule without the psychedelic effects and also press it into, like, a 30-minute session, and that will copy and paste into our current medical formatting-

    11. KRKevin Rose1:16:36

        Mm

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:16:36

        ... much more easily. But there's a profit motive there, right? Because if you ca- if you can scale something in that way and reduce some of the, quote, unquote, "side effects"-

    13. KRKevin Rose1:16:46

        And also patent it

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:16:47

        ... Yeah, and p- absolutely patent it, and then also make it a drug that you need to take at least twice a week or maybe even every day instead of once a month or once every three months, that there are e-

    15. KRKevin Rose1:17:00

        Is that necessarily a bad thing, though?

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:17:02

        It's not automatically a bad thing, but I just think it's important for folks to be aware of incentives and to track incentives.

    17. KRKevin Rose1:17:09

        Sure.

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:17:09

        Right? So.

    19. KRKevin Rose1:17:10

        'Cause then it just turns into another, a better antidepressant, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:17:14

        It's not necessarily a bad thing. It depends on how the antidepressant is achieving its effects, right?

    21. KRKevin Rose1:17:18

        Mm-hmm.

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:17:18

        And there are immediate, there are immediate changes that can be beneficial in a whole host of different situations with medicine, generally speaking, right? So with the pharmacological intervention, it's like if you're, if you're bleeding out and you need a coagulant, like, you don't want the [laughs] you don't have to wait a long time for that to work. And similarly, it's like if you are suffering from suicidal ideation and are at risk of harming or killing yourself, you need something that's gonna work really quickly, s- in which case, just putting this out there, is intravenous ketamine-

    23. KRKevin Rose1:17:55

        Right

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:17:55

        ... treatment may be-

    25. KRKevin Rose1:17:56

        It's the number-one thing, right?

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:17:57

        May be a, may be something you consider. It's not going to fix all of your problems, but it's gonna stop the immediate bleeding, so to speak, right?

    27. KRKevin Rose1:18:05

        Isn't that what they do if someone comes in and they're about to commit suicide, don't they give them IV ketamine? Like, I've heard that's a thing.

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:18:12

        I don't know what it looks like. Actually, I'd love to hear from people in the audience who, who know how something like that is triaged in an ER, right?

    29. KRKevin Rose1:18:20

        Yeah.

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:18:20

        If somebody shows up, and maybe a loved one brought them, and they're like, "I'm gonna blow my head off," uh, I would, I mean, I would have to imagine there's, like, sedation. Maybe they use some hypnotics. They might use ketamine. I don't know. But in a-
20. 1:21:53 – 1:23:35

    Parting thoughts.

    1. KRKevin Rose1:21:53

       Awesome. Anything else you wanted to cover?

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:21:56

       I think that's it for me.

    3. KRKevin Rose1:21:58

       Yeah. I'm, I'm good as well. That was awesome.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:22:02

       Yeah.

    5. KRKevin Rose1:22:02

       It's good to see you, brother.

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:22:02

       Yeah. Good to see you too, man. Thanks for, thanks for having me over for dinner.

    7. KRKevin Rose1:22:06

       Yeah, sitting on our, our couch here. Mr. Toast is in the background for those watching in the audience.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:22:10

       Yeah, yeah.

    9. KRKevin Rose1:22:11

       12 and doing well.

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:22:12

        Yeah.

    11. KRKevin Rose1:22:13

        Passed out.

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:22:13

        So, you know, not that long... Well, it is, I mean, it is long ago. Not in like historical, uh, evolutionary terms, but in like our lifetime terms, a while ago, like we had a, we had a shop very much like this in San Francisco in one of your [laughs] like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna say first apartments, but, uh-

    13. KRKevin Rose1:22:31

        A shitty apartment

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:22:31

        ... ear- earlier apartments with a couch like this, and Toast walked by as a puppy and chewed through one of these-

    15. KRKevin Rose1:22:39

        Audio cables

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:22:40

        ... XLR cables.

    17. KRKevin Rose1:22:41

        [laughs] Totally.

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:22:42

        Back then, I had a little bit of hair.

    19. KRKevin Rose1:22:44

        That's right.

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:22:45

        Yeah, yeah.

    21. KRKevin Rose1:22:45

        Isn't that crazy that you had hair back then?

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:22:48

        Yeah, it's weird. It's weird. Somebody was asking me, they're like, "Yeah, but you could probably figure out how to regrow hair." And I'm like, "Yeah, but if I just suddenly like disappeared for six months and then reappeared with like a huge mop on my head, I think [laughs] ..."

    23. KRKevin Rose1:23:00

        I mean, that's what Elon Musk did. Did you see the early Elon Musk pictures where he was bald?

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:23:04

        Oh, I have. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    25. KRKevin Rose1:23:05

        You could do it.

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:23:06

        I could do it, but I, A, I don't, I don't feel the need. B, I just think, especially from my friends, I would get so much endless shit.

    27. KRKevin Rose1:23:15

        Do you think you should do it? Dar- Well, I asked Daria right now. She said no.

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:23:18

        No. No.

    29. KRKevin Rose1:23:19

        Yeah.

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:23:19

        No.

Episode duration: 1:23:56