Jason Nemer Interview (Full Episode) | The Tim Ferriss Show (Podcast)

1. 0:01 – 2:46

   Duck Shit Tea and How Tim Met Jason

   1. TFTim Ferriss0:01

      Jason, welcome to the show.

   2. JNJason Nemer0:02

      Thank you.

   3. TFTim Ferriss0:03

      What are we drinking here?

   4. JNJason Nemer0:04

      Ah. [laughs] What a great way to start.

   5. TFTim Ferriss0:06

      I enjoyed the label. I enjoyed the label so much, I have to share it with the world.

   6. JNJason Nemer0:10

      It's, uh, Duck Shit oolong tea.

   7. TFTim Ferriss0:13

      Duck Shit oolong tea.

   8. JNJason Nemer0:14

      It's true.

   9. TFTim Ferriss0:15

      What is the story behind the Duck Shit portion of that?

   10. JNJason Nemer0:18

       Well, back in the day, I hear, uh, in a region in China, there was this amazing tea, and it was so good that they had to play it down. So they called it Duck Shit tea.

   11. TFTim Ferriss0:28

       Okay.

   12. JNJason Nemer0:28

       And it was played down for however many centuries until it's been discovered as an excellent tea.

   13. TFTim Ferriss0:34

       [laughs] It's not bad, I gotta say. I'm enjoying the, the Duck Shit fragrance oolong tea. And, uh, it is almost as odd sounding as our first encounter. And I remember-

   14. JNJason Nemer0:47

       [laughs]

   15. TFTim Ferriss0:47

       ... the dinner at which we met, and this was in LA, probably Venice, maybe Santa Monica.

   16. JNJason Nemer0:54

       Santa Monica.

   17. TFTim Ferriss0:55

       And it was at whose home? Was it Andrew's?

   18. JNJason Nemer0:58

       Dean's. Dean's home.

   19. TFTim Ferriss0:58

       Dean. And I was with my buddy Travis Brewer.

   20. JNJason Nemer1:03

       Mm-hmm, the ninja.

   21. TFTim Ferriss1:04

       The ninja, who is very much worth checking out for those people who have not seen him in action, American Ninja Warrior and so on. And we were sitting somewhere close to each other, maybe next to each other. And-

   22. JNJason Nemer1:16

       We'd captured a bunch of photographs of the day, just running around and doing craziness.

   23. TFTim Ferriss1:20

       Oh, that's right. At the, at the Santa Monica Green-

   24. JNJason Nemer1:22

       Uh-huh

   25. TFTim Ferriss1:22

       ... and elsewhere.

   26. JNJason Nemer1:23

       Right.

   27. TFTim Ferriss1:24

       And of course you are the co-founder of AcroYoga, but I didn't have much in terms of exposure to AcroYoga.

   28. JNJason Nemer1:30

       Right.

   29. TFTim Ferriss1:30

       So I said, "Well, what is AcroYoga?" And you said, "I'll show you." And that led to an Instagram photo that I posted-

   30. JNJason Nemer1:36

       [laughs]
2. 2:46 – 10:55

   Origins of AcroYoga and Sports Acrobatics

   1. TFTim Ferriss2:46

      what are the origins of AcroYoga? How did it come to be?

   2. JNJason Nemer2:52

      Well, you know, anytime we talk about origins, there's my version of my experience of the story. There's the historical perspective. So what I'll do is I'll share from my perspective what and how this all came together. Basically, I had a lot of acrobatic experience. I started when I was 12, and I competed in sports acrobatics, which is basically like gymnastics and figure skating put together. It's a routine with partners, music, dance. So I competed in that for many years, found yoga in college, and then ended up in San Francisco where I met Jenny, the co-founder. And Jenny had a background in the therapeutic flying. So what you were describing, being upside down and being massaged, that's something that I learned from Jenny. She learned it from other people. So AcroYoga to me was me and Jenny meeting and pretty much putting together our bag of tricks.

   3. TFTim Ferriss3:43

      And that bag of tricks, so I will say, just in terms of personal experience, has been incredible because you have not just the sort of acrobatic, and, uh, this is a term that maybe, uh, you would not use, I don't know, but a very kind of yang-driven-

   4. JNJason Nemer4:03

      Mm-hmm

   5. TFTim Ferriss4:03

      ... strength, athleticism component, which is the, the acrobatics. But then you have the very yin, very restorative therapeutic Thai massage.

   6. JNJason Nemer4:13

      Right.

   7. TFTim Ferriss4:14

      There's more to it, of course. But my hips, after now doing this reasonably consistently, in particular the last two months, but for the last however long since we met.

   8. JNJason Nemer4:23

      Year, year, year plus. Yeah.

   9. TFTim Ferriss4:24

      Yeah, yeah. Year plus. Good Lord.

   10. JNJason Nemer4:26

       [laughs]

   11. TFTim Ferriss4:27

       I realized today that I've been a professional writer for 10 years.

   12. JNJason Nemer4:30

       Wow.

   13. TFTim Ferriss4:31

       Almost to the dot.

   14. JNJason Nemer4:32

       Wow.

   15. TFTim Ferriss4:33

       I was like-

   16. JNJason Nemer4:33

       Well done

   17. TFTim Ferriss4:34

       ... man, that, that explains the hair loss.

   18. JNJason Nemer4:35

       [laughs]

   19. TFTim Ferriss4:36

       It's been a long fucking time. But the, my hips, my knee issues, uh, ankle fl- uh, flexibility, my progress from a grumpy baby position. For those of you who know yoga at all, imagine you're laying on your back, kind of holding onto your big toes and pulling your knees under, like, into your armpits.

   20. JNJason Nemer4:57

       Yeah.

   21. TFTim Ferriss4:57

       Uh, historically, very uncomfortable for me. Still not my favorite place to be, but much improved. And I feel years younger. I mean, athletically speaking, more mobile than I was even when I was competing in wrestling and juj-

   22. JNJason Nemer5:12

       For sure

   23. TFTim Ferriss5:12

       ... and judo and whatnot. Uh, what, uh, what was the, the birth moment of AcroYoga, per se? Like, when did that meeting turn into acro, which is now practiced, I don't know, by in how many countries would you say?

   24. JNJason Nemer5:27

       We have 55... I went and counted it recently. 55 countries that there are certified teachers, but it doesn't mean that the reach isn't bigger than that.

   25. TFTim Ferriss5:35

       Right.

   26. JNJason Nemer5:35

       But it's, uh, it's definitely a global practice at this point. The, the creation story is actually pretty magical. Uh, Jenny and I had been hearing about each other, and we were training at the same circus center. She was doing contortion during the day. I was teaching trampoline at night. So we kept orbiting around each other and had a lot of common friends, but just didn't meet, didn't meet. When we finally met, we got together at a party, and I immediately put her into a hand to hand where it's she's doing a handstand on my hands, and then she put me in folded leaf, which is, uh, you would say the down dog of therapeutic flying. It's where my body's in a hanging surrendered position, my head's in her belly, and she's supporting my weight. And that was the first time as an acrobat that I felt what it was like to be inverted but not be engaged. 'Cause acrobats are very controlling and controlled in their body. But to surrender It was amazing, just those two poses. And then we were up until 5:00 AM talking about this practice that would use all these different skill sets. And we saw how things like partner yoga would help people communicate, and that the basic therapeutic flying that's not very advanced teaches people acrobatics in a soft way. And we put really all the pieces together that night.

   27. TFTim Ferriss6:49

       So it came toge- I mean, it was, it was orbiting, orbiting, orbiting, and then-

   28. JNJason Nemer6:53

       Collision [laughs]

   29. TFTim Ferriss6:54

       ... collision and synthesis.

   30. JNJason Nemer6:56

       Yeah.
3. 10:55 – 14:51

   The Dark Side of Acrobatics and the Ferrari Engine in a Hyundai Body

   1. JNJason Nemer10:55

      I heard a very similar story, and this is, um, something that I see as the pitfall of acrobatics, a potential pitfall. I trained in Bulgaria when I was 15 with the Bulgarian national team. The year before, we brought them to California, took them to Disneyland, blew their minds, and learned from them. And I heard a few years after that, that the men's four, same thing, wanted to intimidate the other men's four. So what I was describing are these four-high pyramids. They were doing a four-high one-arm pyramid, and they fell. And the kid broke most of his bones. He didn't die, but it was the end of his career. And I think also for the, uh, 2008 Olympics in Beijing, there were a number of Chinese gymnasts that died trying vaults, trying to do these very difficult vaults. And yeah, the dark side of acrobatics can be when your body's an obstacle to your goal, and this is where the yoga and the acrobatics can weave so intelligently the dynamic power of acrobatics, but the reality that you've got your body for your whole life, and how do you make these educated steps towards what you want.

   2. TFTim Ferriss11:55

      And this, this comes back to the surrender component.

   3. JNJason Nemer11:59

      Mm-hmm.

   4. TFTim Ferriss12:00

      Which may sound very woo woo to some people listening, and that's okay because we're in San Francisco.

   5. JNJason Nemer12:05

      [laughs]

   6. TFTim Ferriss12:06

      So suck it up and-

   7. JNJason Nemer12:06

      Woo woo

   8. TFTim Ferriss12:07

      ... and take it. Uh, we're not gonna get too crazy. Maybe we will. But, uh, the... I, I, flashing all over the place. I know this is a bit like Memento, but one of my other influences, this coach named Jerzy Gregorek, who's the Polish Olympic weightlifting coach I've mentioned a few times.

   9. JNJason Nemer12:26

      Mm-hmm.

   10. TFTim Ferriss12:26

       62. ... uh, leaner, stronger, uh, more mobile than I am by many, many factors. Uh, and he's probably 135, 140.

   11. JNJason Nemer12:36

       Mm-hmm.

   12. TFTim Ferriss12:36

       Can get on an Indo Board, like a balance board, and hit a perfect snatch with a barbell loaded full of weight, ass to the floor, and, uh, then stand up and put it back on the floor, uh, just in, with, uh, effectively no warmup. Like, cold.

   13. JNJason Nemer12:53

       Right.

   14. TFTim Ferriss12:53

       He's just an extremely impressive athlete, and his longevity is phenomenal. And, uh, he said to me at one point, because my habit of course is push, push, push, break.

   15. JNJason Nemer13:02

       You, push?

   16. TFTim Ferriss13:03

       I know.

   17. JNJason Nemer13:03

       [laughs]

   18. TFTim Ferriss13:04

       Stop everything for a while because I'm incapacitated.

   19. JNJason Nemer13:06

       Mm-hmm.

   20. TFTim Ferriss13:06

       Push, push, push, break. And he said, "You have a Ferrari engine," and paraphrasing here, but he said, "You have to remember, you have a Ferrari engine in a Hyundai body."

   21. JNJason Nemer13:16

       [laughs]

   22. TFTim Ferriss13:17

       Like, you're going to just blow yourself apart. Or it's like your mind is willing, but your body is not adapted.

   23. JNJason Nemer13:23

       Mm-hmm.

   24. TFTim Ferriss13:23

       So you need to, not his words, mine, but like chill the fuck out-

   25. JNJason Nemer13:26

       Yeah

   26. TFTim Ferriss13:26

       ... and play the long game, which, uh, I'm- I'm becoming better at. And part of what has aided that is the therapeutics.

   27. JNJason Nemer13:34

       Yeah.

   28. TFTim Ferriss13:35

       And, uh, something as simple as, uh, you mentioned surrender. So in the type of training that I'm focusing on right now, I'm actually doing the gymnastic bodies-

   29. JNJason Nemer13:45

       Mm-hmm

   30. TFTim Ferriss13:45

       ... work with Coach Summers.
4. 14:51 – 19:35

   Demo: Folded Leaf and Therapeutic Flying

   1. TFTim Ferriss14:51

      would you say that is a good place for people to start with acro?

   2. JNJason Nemer14:55

      There are a lot of gri- good places to start. Therapeutic flying, what I like about it is it's very soft and gentle. If there's extreme mobility issues, I think there are other things that people can do to gain confidence and to learn how to communicate what they need. The way that we teach the practice is base, flyer, spotter. So the spotter can not only keep it safe, but they can also make sure that the base is in the correct alignment. So it's, uh, too hard to say that this pose is- is the exact place to start.

   3. TFTim Ferriss15:22

      But it's one place to start.

   4. JNJason Nemer15:24

      It is a, it is a good place to start.

   5. TFTim Ferriss15:24

      Now, when you say base, flyer, spotter, that is simply to say that generally you're practicing in groups of three.

   6. JNJason Nemer15:29

      Yes.

   7. TFTim Ferriss15:30

      Right. Uh, let's- let's just show, and, uh, for those people who are listening to audio, uh, I'm sure I mentioned it in the intro and I'll probably mention it at the outro. Uh, if not, you can check in the show notes 4hourworkweek.com/podcast. But we're capturing this on video.

   8. JNJason Nemer15:45

      Yeah.

   9. TFTim Ferriss15:45

      So we might as well do some stuff-

   10. JNJason Nemer15:46

       Might as well

   11. TFTim Ferriss15:46

       ... that's well-suited to video, and we'll- we'll talk through it. But let's, uh, let's just go to this mat here. And, uh-

   12. JNJason Nemer15:54

       Oh, wait. We gotta do it the right way.

   13. TFTim Ferriss15:55

       Ah, I was gonna catch you.

   14. JNJason Nemer15:57

       My Dutch friends, my Dutch friends would kill me.

   15. TFTim Ferriss15:58

       So the, uh, yeah, this is, uh, so the, yeah, at the end then I lay in back, and then we bring the partner down. So apparently the Dutch acrobats get very upset if you don't do that.

   16. JNJason Nemer16:06

       [laughs]

   17. TFTim Ferriss16:07

       And I've gotten to the point where I'm like, "You know what? I've had enough of the Dutch."

   18. JNJason Nemer16:10

       [laughs]

   19. TFTim Ferriss16:10

       I love the kickboxing. Ernesto Hoost, love you, but from all the jujitsu, I'm just like flop.

   20. JNJason Nemer16:16

       [laughs]

   21. TFTim Ferriss16:17

       I've- I've, uh, made a lot of, I'm not gonna say enemies, that doesn't really happen in acro. So, uh, I am standing with my feet reasonably close to your hips.

   22. JNJason Nemer16:25

       Yep. I wanna be able to touch my flyer's feet.

   23. TFTim Ferriss16:28

       Yep.

   24. JNJason Nemer16:28

       My feet are turned out just below the hip bones.

   25. TFTim Ferriss16:30

       Mm-hmm. I am standing straight up. It's almost as if you've seen the UFC. You're like open guard on your back.

   26. JNJason Nemer16:37

       Here we go.

   27. TFTim Ferriss16:37

       This would be where I try to punch you, and then you kick me in the face, but that's not acro, that's MMA.

   28. JNJason Nemer16:41

       All right.

   29. TFTim Ferriss16:42

       And then flyer, fingers forward.

   30. JNJason Nemer16:44

       Flyer. You got it. You got the acronyms and everything.
5. 19:35 – 25:40

   Leg Love and Restorative Partner Work

   1. TFTim Ferriss19:35

      Yamon. So those are some basics of therapeutic flying. And some people who heard a bunch of grunting and-

   2. JNJason Nemer19:41

      [laughs]

   3. TFTim Ferriss19:42

      ... weird noises and just don't know what the hell is happening, or for people who might have seen the video, I have... Actually, let's demonstrate one more thing because I, uh, was in South America doing an immersive-

   4. JNJason Nemer19:55

      Mm-hmm

   5. TFTim Ferriss19:55

      ... which was a great experience, meaning a two-week intensive of AcroYoga training. First week was dedicated to the acrobatics-

   6. JNJason Nemer20:04

      Mm-hmm

   7. TFTim Ferriss20:04

      ... second week to the therapeutic flying and Thai massage. And, uh, I was visiting a friend of mine, uh, named Chris, who has developed some lower back and hip issues from a lot of s-

   8. JNJason Nemer20:16

      Mm-hmm

   9. TFTim Ferriss20:16

      ... from a lot of sitting. He's a, he's a former high-level athlete.

   10. JNJason Nemer20:18

       Right.

   11. TFTim Ferriss20:19

       And I gave him what is sometimes referred to in the Acro community as, uh, leg love.

   12. JNJason Nemer20:26

       Mm-hmm.

   13. TFTim Ferriss20:27

       Uh, which is typically done, uh, for those of you who just saw it, or I'll just describe it. So Jason was on his back basing me, supporting all of my weight on his legs in effect. That can get tiring.

   14. JNJason Nemer20:38

       Yeah. [laughs] For sure it can.

   15. TFTim Ferriss20:39

       And, and so after you've received effectively massage, being floated on someone's feet, you then help to, uh-

   16. JNJason Nemer20:48

       Release the tension

   17. TFTim Ferriss20:49

       ... re- release the tension in their legs and restore their legs a bit.

   18. JNJason Nemer20:51

       Exactly.

   19. TFTim Ferriss20:52

       And so I did that to... Actually, you know what? Why don't I demonstrate?

   20. JNJason Nemer20:55

       All right.

   21. TFTim Ferriss20:55

       Okay. So-

   22. JNJason Nemer20:55

       Bring it.

   23. TFTim Ferriss20:56

       [laughs]

   24. JNJason Nemer20:57

       This podcast is getting better and better.

   25. TFTim Ferriss20:59

       Yeah, yeah. So what I did for, for Chris, and, uh, this is something I've done for a number of people now, and obviously consult your qualified AcroYoga professional. I'm no doctor. Don't play one on the internet.

   26. JNJason Nemer21:11

       [laughs]

   27. TFTim Ferriss21:11

       But is... So let's say we just came down, right?

   28. JNJason Nemer21:15

       Mm-hmm.

   29. TFTim Ferriss21:15

       So we, mm, we came down, and we're here. There are a couple of very easy things you can do. So just from this squat position, I'll, I'll s- get his legs straight, then I'll actually just hold his feet-

   30. JNJason Nemer21:26

       Mm
6. 25:40 – 31:59

   Lu Yi, Scott Blossom, and Healing Philosophy

   1. TFTim Ferriss25:40

      could you talk about Lu Yi and your experience with your healing teacher?

   2. JNJason Nemer25:44

      Yeah.

   3. TFTim Ferriss25:44

      And just give some context on who these people are.

   4. JNJason Nemer25:46

      Sure. So Lu Yi is a Chinese acrobatic master. He's a circus master. He, uh, traveled throughout the world back in the '50s. He was actually telling me a story about when he performed in Africa and they had this, uh, act where you throw these big pots around and the pots land on your head, and the Africans carry things on their heads, so they weren't impressed. They didn't clap. They had to take it out. So he's just a treasure trove-

   5. TFTim Ferriss26:09

      [laughs]

   6. JNJason Nemer26:10

      ... of really amazing stories about circus. And he's been in the Bay Area for quite some time now. I met him about 13 years ago. We have a little short story about this. I met him. I go into the circus center. You know, I competed high level acrobatics, but I hadn't trained high level in a while, and I see him training people in one-arm handstands. And I as a base never learned how to do a one-arm handstand on the ground by myself. So I'm like, "Mr. Lu Yi, you're, you s- look like such an amazing teacher. I would be so honored to work with you. I just did a yoga teacher training." And yoga is a four-letter word.

   7. TFTim Ferriss26:41

      [laughs]

   8. JNJason Nemer26:41

      I might as well just spit in his face.

   9. TFTim Ferriss26:43

      [laughs]

   10. JNJason Nemer26:44

       So literally for the next three years, every day I would see him in the circus center. "Mr. Lu Yi, I'd love to work with you." "Oh, you have too much experience. Oh, you very old. Uh, my way different way."

   11. TFTim Ferriss26:55

       [laughs]

   12. JNJason Nemer26:55

       And when I speak with my pretend Chinese accent, it's in-

   13. TFTim Ferriss26:58

       It, it's still-

   14. JNJason Nemer26:59

       ... so much love

   15. TFTim Ferriss26:59

       ... it's still pretty good.

   16. JNJason Nemer27:00

       [laughs]

   17. TFTim Ferriss27:01

       I mean, having spent a lot of time in China. Um.

   18. JNJason Nemer27:03

       Oh, my God. So this, this is Lu Yi. And Lu Yi has been, um, a mentor in a lot of ways, and he has a lot of different techniques. He's, he's right when he says that because he came from circus and I came from sports acrobatics. One day I go into the circus center and he's teaching a kid how to ride on a bicycle backwards by sitting on the handlebars. Like, he knows so many random things. And recently, just this year, he has sciatica and he got into a car accident and it got worse, and he's basically been out of commission now for quite a while. And I've been trying to connect him with one of my other master teachers, who's Scott Blossom, who's amazing Chinese medicine doctor, acupuncture, Ayurveda, which is an Indian science of medicine, and he's also a Shadow Yoga teacher. And in the world, I think there are 20 certified Shadow Yoga instructors. That's a whole nother conversation. But he's basically a triple threat, amazing human. And today, before this interview, I finally, I went to Lu Yi's house. I picked him up. I took him over to Scott's office. And Lu Yi doesn't speak English very well, and I understand him and we have a good rapport, so it was really good to be there. And for about s- I don't know, six to eight minutes, he was just reading his pulses, just feeling his hands. And from there, he basically did needles, did a lot of different, uh, techniques. And before he got him on the table, I was in a moment where I just sat on the floor when they were doing the pulses. I closed my eyes and I did a metta practice. Metta means loving kindness, and this comes from Thai massage. Thai massage is an amazing practice that weaves spirituality and healing. So as I close my eyes and I'm meditating, my heart's pumping. My hands are getting hot. I'm just basically cultivating all this chi. And I didn't think I was gonna be able to lay hands on Lu Yi at all. But then when he got him on the table, he's like, "Jason, feel here. Okay, put an elbow there." So I got to do, you know... I have two of my masters here and I get to give love basically to this man who with his hands has sculpted my handstand, my one arm handstand. So it was just a really cool thing to feel how acrobatics is really powerful, but nothing is more important than your health until you start losing your health. And to have these tools to help people feel better, there are very few things in life that I think are more noble to dedicate to than learning techniques to help people. And, you know, metta, loving kindness, compassion, meditation, these are things that are very easy for everyone on the planet to start practicing as soon as they build the desire. And I think human nature is such that we have the desire that we wanna help people. We wanna make people feel better. So yeah, that was an amazing way to start my day to see these two masters come together.

   19. TFTim Ferriss29:48

       I've been very struck by, by a few things, uh, just related to what you just said. The first is that a lot of people who come into healing have a history of being injured themselves-

   20. JNJason Nemer30:00

       Mm-hmm

   21. TFTim Ferriss30:00

       ... or even injuring other people.

   22. JNJason Nemer30:02

       Yeah.

   23. TFTim Ferriss30:02

       A lot of, uh, judoka in Japan-

   24. JNJason Nemer30:04

       Mm-hmm

   25. TFTim Ferriss30:05

       ... end up then going into bone setting or just, uh, you know, traditional, well, let's just call it not traditional, but Western medicine.

   26. JNJason Nemer30:12

       Right.

   27. TFTim Ferriss30:13

       And, uh, the second piece is that w- I was very surprised when I did the immersive. I, I hadn't had any real in-depth exposure to the therapeutic flying. That having been so aggressive in all of my s- individual sports to date, I've always, since I was introduced to acro, been obsessed with the more dynamic-

   28. JNJason Nemer30:36

       Mm-hmm

   29. TFTim Ferriss30:37

       ... violent perhaps, uh, fast-

   30. JNJason Nemer30:39

       The, the shiny objects.
7. 31:59 – 38:40

   Cross-Pollination: A New Handstand and Shadow Yoga

   1. TFTim Ferriss31:59

      What, uh, is the handstand approach that you thought of this morning?

   2. JNJason Nemer32:04

      [laughs]

   3. TFTim Ferriss32:04

      So you mentioned this, and I said, "Save it for the podcast. I don't wanna hear about it." So tell us.

   4. JNJason Nemer32:09

      Okay. So-

   5. TFTim Ferriss32:09

      A lot of people listening are interested in handstands.

   6. JNJason Nemer32:11

      Yeah.

   7. TFTim Ferriss32:11

      There are a lot of crappy handstands out there.

   8. JNJason Nemer32:13

      I've seen most of them. [laughs]

   9. TFTim Ferriss32:15

      [laughs]

   10. JNJason Nemer32:16

       In different shapes and forms. Well, this is where, again, I feel like the acrobatics and the yoga start to mix. I've been doing shadow yoga for about six years now, and there are three prelude forms.

   11. TFTim Ferriss32:27

       Does Ra's al Ghul run... He's the bad guy in Batman. He doesn't run shadow yoga.

   12. JNJason Nemer32:31

       [laughs]

   13. TFTim Ferriss32:31

       Sounds like something out of- [laughs]

   14. JNJason Nemer32:33

       Marvel Comics?

   15. TFTim Ferriss32:33

       ... out of, like, the Avengers movie. Okay.

   16. JNJason Nemer32:35

       Kind of. Zhandra Remete is a Hungarian martial artist who came up with this. So there's-

   17. TFTim Ferriss32:38

       Sounds like Ra's al Ghul.

   18. JNJason Nemer32:39

       Yeah.

   19. TFTim Ferriss32:39

       Okay.

   20. JNJason Nemer32:39

       There's, there's, there's some, there's some darkness to it.

   21. TFTim Ferriss32:41

       [laughs]

   22. JNJason Nemer32:42

       Um-

   23. TFTim Ferriss32:42

       We'll come back to that. Okay. So we'll, we'll dig into shadow, but, uh, please continue.

   24. JNJason Nemer32:46

       Well, it came from my shadow practice this morning. So there's a pose where... I'll just do it real quick.

   25. TFTim Ferriss32:51

       All right.

   26. JNJason Nemer32:52

       There's a sequence, and one of the, one of the poses is with the fingers interlaced and straight down like this.

   27. TFTim Ferriss32:57

       So you're just... If you could just describe. So you're standing feet shoulder-width apart-

   28. JNJason Nemer32:59

       Mm-hmm

   29. TFTim Ferriss33:00

       ... roughly.

   30. JNJason Nemer33:01

       My finger-
8. 38:40 – 52:50

   Handstand Fundamentals: Alignment, Tightness, Balance

   1. TFTim Ferriss38:40

      ... although, yeah, he might not put up with me. That's, that's, that's a separate issue altogether. Bone stacking. Uh, let's talk about handstands for a second again. Uh, and I always mess this up. Is it ATB?

   2. JNJason Nemer38:52

      ATB.

   3. TFTim Ferriss38:53

      Ooh, look at me.

   4. JNJason Nemer38:53

      Well, you also learned it in Spanish. That was A-E-B.

   5. TFTim Ferriss38:56

      A-E-B. That's right. That was a whole, that was a whole thing in and-

   6. JNJason Nemer39:00

      [laughs] I bet

   7. TFTim Ferriss39:00

      ... of itself. I did my entire immersion in South America in Spanish. Uh, there were a number of people translating for a handful of folks who only spoke English, but I found it more entertaining to, uh, see how badly I could mangle things by running on the Spanish alone. So let's talk about ATB. Should we just do a, a little demo of what that means?

   8. JNJason Nemer39:16

      Yeah, let's... Maybe I'll talk a little bit first.

   9. TFTim Ferriss39:18

      Yeah.

   10. JNJason Nemer39:18

       I'll paint an analogy. So I like the analogy of bridges. So the alignment is basically-

   11. TFTim Ferriss39:24

       So ATB stands for what?

   12. JNJason Nemer39:26

       Alignment, tightness, and balance.

   13. TFTim Ferriss39:28

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JNJason Nemer39:28

       So, and I like it in that order because until the body gets aligned in the most efficient way possible, you are losing energy for every second you're attempting the handstand. So alignment is the holy grail of all acrobatics. And what's great about these ideas, the ideas are really simple. The practice is a pain in the ass. It takes sometimes decades to get a straight handstand, but alignment is straight. Straight is strong. So if you learn how... And our bodies are not made straight. Our cells are circular. Our bones are not two-by-fours. So it's, it's a impossible task that we try to do to turn our bodies into these knives that cut through gravity.

   15. TFTim Ferriss40:08

       What are some of the things that, uh, Lu Yi says as, like, short expressions-

   16. JNJason Nemer40:13

       [laughs]

   17. TFTim Ferriss40:14

       ... for people doing handstands?

   18. JNJason Nemer40:15

       Well, so today his, his leg isn't working very well, one of his legs. He can't walk up the stairs very well. And, and I, I joked at him, I said, "Lu Yi, your body's not one piece." 'Cause he says, "Make body one piece." [laughs]

   19. TFTim Ferriss40:26

       [laughs] One piece.

   20. JNJason Nemer40:27

       Yeah.

   21. TFTim Ferriss40:27

       One piece.

   22. JNJason Nemer40:27

       He, he likes the body to be unified. And then I have a Russian coach that says, "Make body one bone." Same, same.

   23. TFTim Ferriss40:32

       Same, same.

   24. JNJason Nemer40:32

       It's basically unifying the body, and that's the second part of the ATB. It's tightness.

   25. TFTim Ferriss40:36

       Okay.

   26. JNJason Nemer40:37

       It's integration.

   27. TFTim Ferriss40:37

       And if you see, for instance, for, uh... I know you've seen this, but for people listening or watching, if you see a photograph of a gymnast midair-

   28. JNJason Nemer40:47

       Mm-hmm

   29. TFTim Ferriss40:47

       ... or a diver, for that matter-

   30. JNJason Nemer40:49

       Mm-hmm
9. 52:50 – 1:02:03

   Dharma Mittra and the State of Yoga

   1. TFTim Ferriss52:50

      what other teachers, uh, or mentors have had a big impact on you?

   2. JNJason Nemer52:56

      Dharma Mitra yogically, um, has been an amazing teacher. He's a Brazilian yoga teacher. Uh, he was born and raised in Brazil, and he came to New York and met his guru, Yoga Gupta, in I th- wanna say the '70s, the mid-'70s. And out of everyone that I've met in the yoga world, he is... He does the practice. He's super deep. He teaches psychic development techniques. He-

   3. TFTim Ferriss53:23

      Psychic development techniques?

   4. JNJason Nemer53:24

      Yeah.

   5. TFTim Ferriss53:25

      What are we talking about here?

   6. JNJason Nemer53:25

      [laughs]

   7. TFTim Ferriss53:26

      [laughs]

   8. JNJason Nemer53:27

      I mean, there's, there are things that he learned from his guru. Um, the practice is a lot of visualization and breathing techniques, some humming sounds that unlock vibration in the head. And I was studying with him for a nu-

   9. TFTim Ferriss53:40

      Some trippy thing to do in a sensory deprivation tank-

   10. JNJason Nemer53:43

       [laughs]

   11. TFTim Ferriss53:43

       ... actually, which I've, I've experimented with-

   12. JNJason Nemer53:46

       I bet

   13. TFTim Ferriss53:46

       ... a bit.

   14. JNJason Nemer53:46

       I bet.

   15. TFTim Ferriss53:47

       Uh, that is, yeah, full, full-blown psychedelic auditory experience without psychedelics, but that's maybe for a different podcast.

   16. JNJason Nemer53:54

       You know, vibration is vibration. There's a lot of ways to unlock those things.

   17. TFTim Ferriss53:57

       Hitachi Magic Wand?

   18. JNJason Nemer53:59

       Exactly. [laughs]

   19. TFTim Ferriss53:59

       Okay. [laughs]

   20. JNJason Nemer54:00

       You have one, too.

   21. TFTim Ferriss54:02

       Which, by the way, was, was recommended to me by a Russian medical massage expert, uh, a- and, uh, not, not in the red-light district, for, uh, relaxing hypertonic forearms.

   22. JNJason Nemer54:13

       Yep.

   23. TFTim Ferriss54:14

       Uh, the original version, plug-in version- [laughs]

   24. JNJason Nemer54:17

       [laughs]

   25. TFTim Ferriss54:18

       ... which you can get at your friendly neighborhood sex store, uh, on high, as it turns out. But, um, so, so was that, now is that... I'm gonna get my terms wrong here. Not Swami. Guru? No. Something Gupta.

   26. JNJason Nemer54:31

       Uh, Yoga Gupta.

   27. TFTim Ferriss54:32

       Yoga Gupta.

   28. JNJason Nemer54:33

       That was-

   29. TFTim Ferriss54:33

       Are you referring to-

   30. JNJason Nemer54:34

       His guru.
10. 1:02:03 – 1:14:21

    Corkscrews, Hand-to-Hand and Human Chaos

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:02:03

       what, uh... what do you think about doing a little bit of, I guess you would call it solar-

    2. JNJason Nemer1:02:11

       Acrobatic flying?

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:02:12

       ... acrobatic flying?

    4. JNJason Nemer1:02:13

       You basing or flying, or both?

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:02:14

       Either. I'll, I'll fly.

    6. JNJason Nemer1:02:16

       Okay.

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:02:16

       I've only been doing basing for the last couple of, uh, months. This ought to be entertaining. Uh, so I'll be, uh, I'll be the spry flyer. But I don't know what you think would be, uh, of interest to folks. What I will say, I'm just gonna demo something really quick. Uh, don't know which. Primary? All right. So what I'd encourage people to think about, just so we have some shared vocabulary here, is think of bending at the hips as piking. All right? If your legs... Uh, this is very oversimplified. Legs apart, straddle. Okay. So this is going to be a very sort of common position, and you can think of it just as, like, sitting down on the floor with your legs spread and back straight. This gives you a 90-degree angle here. This is shelving. It is gonna be used a lot in acrobatics. So just so that I don't have to explain that when I'm upside down. [laughs]

    8. JNJason Nemer1:03:15

       With that great description, I think we should play with corkscrews.

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:03:18

       Corkscrews. Okay.

    10. JNJason Nemer1:03:19

        All right. Have you done corkscrews?

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:03:20

        Uh, I've based it. I don't know if I've flown it.

    12. JNJason Nemer1:03:23

        Today's your lucky day.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:03:24

        Today is my lucky day. Okay.

    14. JNJason Nemer1:03:24

        Let's go star.

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:03:26

        Star? Yep. This is a hand-to-hand grip. You're gonna have these two fingers on the wrists.

    16. JNJason Nemer1:03:34

        So basically I wanna keep the arms strong and the legs receptive, and you can jump when you're ready.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:03:38

        Okay.

    18. JNJason Nemer1:03:42

        And let's do, um, up and down to straddle about a few times just to calibrate.

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:03:46

        Sure.

    20. JNJason Nemer1:03:52

        Good. I'm gonna go to the other side.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:03:54

        Mm-hmm.

    22. JNJason Nemer1:03:54

        The other side is, no, this one. All right. Let's go 180 to the front plank.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:04:04

        180 front plank.

    24. JNJason Nemer1:04:05

        Uh-huh. Good. That's it. Arms strong. We'll switch the hands. Switch again. Straddle and go slow.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:04:14

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JNJason Nemer1:04:14

        I gotcha. Look at you, twinkle toes.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:04:18

        [laughs]

    28. JNJason Nemer1:04:18

        Nice one.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:04:19

        Thanks.

    30. JNJason Nemer1:04:19

        Awesome.
11. 1:14:21 – 1:22:08

    Sequencing AcroYoga: Bolero and a Unified Field Theory

    1. JNJason Nemer1:14:21

       Well, this doesn't surprise me because in the year plus that I've known you, you've asked me so many seemingly gentle questions that have rocked my world, and one of them that you asked recently was, "Is there a sequence that basically puts together all of the important poses in AcroYoga?" And I don't know if you know Bolero. Do you know that?

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:14:42

       Don't.

    3. JNJason Nemer1:14:43

       It's a classical song.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:14:44

       Oh, [laughs] I do. Is Bolero the one that's played in Ten?

    5. JNJason Nemer1:14:47

       Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:14:48

       It's the one that's played in Ten with Dudley Moore-

    7. JNJason Nemer1:14:50

       Yes

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:14:50

       ... and Bo Derek. [laughs]

    9. JNJason Nemer1:14:51

       And also, uh, Caveman-

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:14:52

        Oh, God. [laughs]

    11. JNJason Nemer1:14:53

        ... if you, if you've seen that movie. But basically, the guy that wrote that, I think it's Ravel, uh, he wrote that to educate people in all the different pieces of the orchestra.

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:15:03

        Oh, cool.

    13. JNJason Nemer1:15:03

        So it starts with violin and viola, and it's actually a beautiful song. But [laughs] I thought, "Okay, I have to make this sequence that basically strings together every pose that I can think of in AcroYoga. I wanna put Bolero in the background. Just this, this a very educational thing. It is gonna be beautiful. It's not about the sequence." And basically what I've done is I've made these grids with front plank, reverse front plank, back plank, all of these different things on one column, and then all at the top, and then I cross-reference. What is it like to go from a throne to a reverse front plank? Is it beginner, intermediate, advanced, or an expert, or not possible? So basically what I wanna do is go in the lab, which is with me and a friend, and just do all these different transitions and then basically try to get a unified field theory of AcroYoga, basically. So Einstein's one of my heroes, and he worked on this most of the end of his life. He was trying to see how the strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force, gravity, and electromagnetism were all related. And I feel like something that I wanna do with AcroYoga in my life is to keep pulling out these equations, pulling out these similarities between these seemingly unrelated things that once you crack the code, and this is very Tim Ferriss, 'cause you asked the question, once you crack the code, if I can come up with a five-minute sequence that has all of these very important basic moves, that's what unlocks the human potential for very complicated flying transitions. So yeah.

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:16:32

        And also pro- And, and it also provides... Well, number one, I can't wait to try it. Number two, it also provides motivation for the student, and I think that, uh, if you look at, for instance, and this is part of where the thinking came from, uh, because my, the frustration was born of... And frustration, I think, in many cases, is a good thing.

    15. JNJason Nemer1:16:50

        Mm.

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:16:50

        It just, it's just, it gives you an itch-

    17. JNJason Nemer1:16:52

        Mm-hmm

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:16:52

        ... that needs to be scratched, and you need to figure out how to scratch it. And in this particular case, uh, in any physical practice that is not regulated in some way by high-stakes competition, which has its own kind of filtering and self-selection.

    19. JNJason Nemer1:17:09

        Mm-hmm.

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:17:10

        Um, but it's totally different because, like, let's say you're in China and you're putting together a national gymnastics team. You don't care if you completely destroy 999 athletes to find the one who can tolerate-

    21. JNJason Nemer1:17:20

        Right

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:17:20

        ... an just unhuman amount of workload and has freakish joints.

    23. JNJason Nemer1:17:24

        And that's how the Chinese train.

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:17:25

        Exactly. And it's also how, uh, I mean, a lot of military train dogs, for instance.

    25. JNJason Nemer1:17:30

        Mm-hmm.

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:17:30

        Like, they don't care if 99 of the dogs get completely messed up-

    27. JNJason Nemer1:17:35

        Right

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:17:35

        ... as long as they find the one that's gonna save 100 lives in the field-

    29. JNJason Nemer1:17:38

        Right

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:17:38

        ... or whatever it might be. I shouldn't say they don't care, but it's just a, an unfortunate common side effect.
12. 1:22:08 – 1:28:55

    Role Switching, Compassion, and Balancing Strength with Mobility

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:22:08

       Uh, left shoulder already has pins in it. I don't need more of those. The, um... What was I gonna say? I was gonna say that, uh, the, I really implore people, and you can find, I'm sure, s- synopses of this online, but get ahold of the meta learning section of The 4-Hour Chef because it talks about how to work on one skill to develop it in such a way that it transfers to many other skills.

    2. JNJason Nemer1:22:30

       Mm-hmm.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:22:31

       Right? So for instance, if we're looking at sequencing-

    4. JNJason Nemer1:22:34

       Mm-hmm

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:22:34

       ... and role switching, I think this is really helpful for any type of partner practice.

    6. JNJason Nemer1:22:38

       Mm-hmm.

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:22:38

       In the, in the world of tango, when I was in Argentina, I learned the female role before I learned the male role.

    8. JNJason Nemer1:22:43

       It's that much easier in dance.

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:22:44

       That seems really weird. But working with Alicia Monte, who's an incredible world-class dancer, learning the female role because we had to. We didn't have enough women in the class.

    10. JNJason Nemer1:22:54

        Mm-hmm.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:22:55

        That's how it came about. And it was like, hey, when Buenos Aires was being populated by immigrants, like, the dudes would dance with one another. And it's like, hey, this isn't just for the Castro.

    12. JNJason Nemer1:23:03

        Right.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:23:03

        This, this is actually, there's a functional purpose here. And after learning the female role, it made it infinitely easier-

    14. JNJason Nemer1:23:10

        Mm-hmm

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:23:10

        ... for me to learn the male role. Now, in acro, it's not a strictly male/female thing, as we just saw. Uh, but very often, because men are sometimes or often bigger than the women, they end up basing.

    16. JNJason Nemer1:23:21

        Mm-hmm.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:23:21

        And they're just not very flexible oftentimes. You are. But guys will be like, "Ah, I have strong legs. I'll just hold you on my legs."

    18. JNJason Nemer1:23:27

        Mm-hmm.

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:23:27

        Uh, and the, uh, the, even though I'm kinda chunky by acro standards, uh, as a flyer, like, I try to fly whenever possible. When there's someone like you-

    20. JNJason Nemer1:23:40

        Mm-hmm

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:23:40

        ... or Justin Bent or Daniel Scott or some of these guys who are just incredibly solid bases, I wanna fly because-

    22. JNJason Nemer1:23:47

        Right

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:23:47

        ... it helps my ability to base. Uh-

    24. JNJason Nemer1:23:50

        It also, um, one step further than just understanding is compassion. If you're always basing, and you're saying to the flyers, "Why are you so scared?" And then you fly, you're like, "Oh my God, this shit is scary."

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:24:02

        [laughs]

    26. JNJason Nemer1:24:03

        Or vice versa, if you're the flyer, and you base a little bit, you're like, "Why are you so wobbly?" And then you try, like, "Oh, I understand why you're wobbling."

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:24:09

        [laughs] Well, that's-

    28. JNJason Nemer1:24:10

        It's hard

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:24:10

        ... well, in South America, there's this one, uh, one woman, very nice, uh, very super flexy, uh, flyer who was... And I, I, I take it that this is a common term, bossy flyer.

    30. JNJason Nemer1:24:23

        Yeah.
13. 1:28:55 – 1:39:12

    Rapid Fire: Success, Books, Nomadic Kit and Frisbees

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:28:55

       let me ask some rapid fire questions.

    2. JNJason Nemer1:28:58

       The usual.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:28:59

       So when you think of the word successful, uh, who is the first person who comes to mind, or people?

    4. JNJason Nemer1:29:07

       It's... I got a, I got a tie. Um, Gandhi, super successful, and, um, Einstein, and from very different spectrums of humanity. And they actually met in South America while they were both alive. I would have loved to been the fly on the wall for that one. Um, what I see in Einstein that I really appreciate is he had all the proof he needed to just keep moving forward with the, the way that, that people understood the world, and he basically stopped listening to everybody. He really went inside. He thought about things. He worked them out. And he changed the world just from his mind, and the ability to be self-reliant, to believe in yourself, and to change the world because of how brilliant you are and how open your mind is, like, that's, that's a high bar. And, you know, I've read more about his life, and he writes about love beautifully. And some of his quotes, one of my favorite quotes of his, I'm, I'm not gonna say it right 'cause it's in German, uh, he says, "I like to cut wood because I can see the fruits of my labor." And just a lot of really simple things. Like, as much as he was, you know, in the stars, he was very pragmatic. And Gandhi, similarly, he didn't see the world in the box that he was born into. And when I see people that really don't take the world as it's being presented and they have a vision of how things can be, and just that resolve, I feel like both of them were so committed to their vision and had so much resolve, and both of them changed the world in such big ways. So that's, uh, a big, uh, definition of success for me.

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:30:45

       S- and I wanna, to highlight something you just said, because the, uh, the ability of Einstein to comment on beauty is something that I think, or to speak on the qualitative aspects of life, uh, with the The, the sort of razor sharp perception of a trained scientist-

    6. JNJason Nemer1:31:07

       Mm-hmm

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:31:08

       ... is, uh, something that's under appreciated, I think, by people who might be inclined to view scientists as very clinical and dry. Richard Feynman, uh, another great example. Physicist, but phenomenal teacher. Um, Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman, is one of my sort of, uh, it's not sort of, favorite books of all time. Do, do you have any particular books you've gifted most to other people?

    8. JNJason Nemer1:31:31

       The Prophet.

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:31:33

       The Prophet?

    10. JNJason Nemer1:31:33

        Yeah.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:31:34

        Who... Uh, The Prophet. These are pa- uh-

    12. JNJason Nemer1:31:36

        He's a Leb-

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:31:37

        ... lessons from Jesus?

    14. JNJason Nemer1:31:39

        Uh, no. He's a Lebanese, uh, guy. I don't remember exactly his name. It's with a K. First name with a K, last name with a G. I cannot pronounce it. He's actually-

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:31:48

        That's all right.

    16. JNJason Nemer1:31:48

        Yeah. And it's basically he says he's, he's this guy who is speaking to a crowd, and somebody in the crowd will say, "Speak to us of pain." And he'll say, "Pain is the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." Speak to me of love. Speak to me of, uh, being a father. And there's this... I love really... Uh, the hairs are standing up as I, as I think about it. I love really accurate, condensed, sh- Shakti filled, energy filled, uh, statements. Something that you can read in a few minutes or you can read for your whole life. So the Tao Te Ching, it would be a close second, and I feel like they have similar themes where there's so much energy in each passage that you can sit down and speed read it, but the depth of these ideas and these concepts, that's actually the book that I have on my traveling altar, 'cause all I do is travel. So I have the Tao Te Ching, and oftentimes I'll just, before meditation, open it up randomly to a page and read about something and then just have that be what I steep in as I sit.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:32:50

        So I have to ask, because you just reminded me of it, w- you are constantly traveling.

    18. JNJason Nemer1:32:56

        I-

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:32:56

        You have a very nomadic existence. Now-

    20. JNJason Nemer1:32:58

        Not very. I am fully nomadic.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:32:59

        Fully nomadic. [laughs]

    22. JNJason Nemer1:33:01

        Yes.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:33:01

        What, what belongings do you travel with?

    24. JNJason Nemer1:33:04

        Well, I have a rolling suitcase, a backpack, and an ukulele. Um, in the backpack I have my computer, a bunch of notes that are gonna turn into a book sometime probably this year. Uh, and it's really dangerous.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:33:14

        Non-fiction?

    26. JNJason Nemer1:33:15

        Uh, and it's AcroYoga.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:33:16

        Got it.

    28. JNJason Nemer1:33:16

        AcroYoga stuff. Um, I have my altar items in my backpack.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:33:20

        What are in your altar items?

    30. JNJason Nemer1:33:22

        Uh, different things from different places. Things that I've been gifted from students.
14. 1:39:12 – 1:47:17

    Trusting Strangers, Losing the Van, and Becoming Nomadic

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:39:12

       what do you believe that other people think is insane?

    2. JNJason Nemer1:39:16

       That you can trust people. You can trust a lot of people, that you don't have to live in fear of strangers. I... Strangers are just people you haven't flown yet, and I've been all over the world. Uh, my mom was not happy when I was gonna go to the Middle East for the first time, and I was actually in Boston about to lead a teacher training, and this is when the Boston Marathon bomber happened. And I had 15 students that were on lockdown for 24 hours, and I got on the phone to my mom like, "Look, Mom, you think Israel's dangerous. I'm in Boston." Like, you cannot, you cannot hide from danger, but I don't think that's a reason to not trust people. I'm a very trusting person. I've traveled the world in some very sketchy places, and I've never had anything bad happen to me. And I, I assume the best in people. I assume that I can trust them until they prove me wrong, and I think a lot of people think that's crazy. But when you do this practice enough, trusting is like a muscle that you flex. And it doesn't mean that I'm a cowboy with it. Like, I have really good, uh, credit assessment. You know, I can tell-

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:40:16

       [laughs]

    4. JNJason Nemer1:40:16

       ... is this person, uh, trustworthy for this engagement I'm about to have? But just in general, having an open mind, having an open heart, believing that people have good intentions, yeah.

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:40:28

       How much of that do you think is bad things not happening to you versus seeing things in the most positive light, right? Because you had your-

    6. JNJason Nemer1:40:35

       True

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:40:35

       ... throwing knives left in Panama.

    8. JNJason Nemer1:40:37

       True.

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:40:37

       So, like, shit happens-

    10. JNJason Nemer1:40:38

        Yeah

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:40:38

        ... right? I'm imagining.

    12. JNJason Nemer1:40:39

        Yeah. Um, well, one of the, one of the things that happened to me that was really amazing was I had all of my objects liberated from me.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:40:48

        [laughs]

    14. JNJason Nemer1:40:48

        I was living in a van in San Francisco, and I had my 30th birthday par- I basically, I didn't wanna work in restaurants. I was like,, "I'm a yogi. I'm gonna do this. I don't care how hard it is. I love this. Boom." So I was living in my van. My 30th birthday, my friend throws me a party, and that night I got a book on Buddhism, a case of coconuts, hung out with my friends. The next day, my van's gone. My home's gone. Everything is gone. So I go, crack a coconut, and start reading about Buddhism 'cause [laughs] what, what the fuck else am I gonna do?

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:41:17

        [laughs]

    16. JNJason Nemer1:41:18

        And page four is talking about homelessness and wandering. I'm like, "That's what I'm gonna do." And that started my nomadic traveling. And if I stayed in San Francisco and tried to make it as a yoga teacher, AcroYoga wouldn't be a worldwide practice. So the ability to let go of what's not working and really assess what is working and what can I be excited about, it's true. It's not that bad things don't happen to me. I don't label a lot of things good, bad. Can I evolve from this? What do I want now? Where is my center now? And this is all from yoga. Well, not all. My parents, a lot of other things, but yoga is the daily practice that helps me bring this wisdom into action steps in my life.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:41:59

        So you mentioned something that, that I've never heard you talk about, and we've never talked about before, but the restaurants and then the decision, "Fuck it, I'm gonna do this full time." Uh, walk me through, like, the 24 hours that led to that decision because at the time, was... Did you realize it was financially feasible, or was it just a Hail Mary, this is what I'm meant to do? Walk, walk me through, like-

    18. JNJason Nemer1:42:23

        Yeah

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:42:23

        ... the 24 hours before you're like, "All right. I'm pulling the trigger. This is what I'm doing."

    20. JNJason Nemer1:42:26

        Well, I, I made up my resume for restaurants, and I was living in San Francisco. We had a rent-controlled house that three yogis were living in because the people that had the rent control left town, and, and, you know, I was like, I was dirt baggin' it. But at that point, all I needed was yoga and food. Like, I didn't need money. I didn't have other ambitions. I wasn't traveling the world. So if I had enough money to take yoga classes and to eat well, that's all I needed. When I got to that point of do I get a job or do I really dedicate to the yoga thing, it really wasn't a choice. It was, it was such a big thing that happened in my life when yoga really hit me over the head. This is all I wanna do, and if I do these other things, I'm not being true to the, the practices that I've been learning about. Like, this is, this is time for me to really dedicate to this. And my mom had a van, and she was, she didn't need it. I'm like, huh, I never thought I would live in a van. But San Francisco was and still is super competitive with yoga, and yoga teachers are some of the most underpaid people on the planet because they have the potential to really bring a lot of beauty to people's lives. And, you know, they get paid 30 to $100 a class, depending on what city you're in. So If I didn't live in the van, there really weren't a lot of other solutions I saw. And until the van was liberated, then I saw the other solutions. And living on the road actually, you know, you're never, you're never really successful, at least I haven't been, in the cities where you start things. It's, you know, you go further away from where things started and you're more luxurious and more exotic. San Francisco is still a difficult city to fill a room for me. So if I would have kept hitting my head against that wall, I wouldn't be here. The practice wouldn't be here, so.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:44:07

        I love it. I love that. So we're gonna wrap up with just, just a few last questions. Uh, suppose this is as good a place as any to ask, if you had a billboard, could put anything on it, what would you put on it?

    22. JNJason Nemer1:44:22

        Play. Play more. Play. Yeah. I, I feel like people are so serious, and it doesn't take much for people to drop back into the wisdom of a childlike playfulness. So I think that's, that's... If I had to prescribe two things to improve health and happiness in the world, it's movement and play. Those two things. 'Cause, you know, you can't really play without moving, so they're, they're kind of intertwined. Um, but if you're just moving and you're not enjoying yourself as you're move- If you're on a treadmill, treadmills kill your spirit. I mean, not, there are reasons and times to do treadmills, but if that is your only way of moving your body, you're selling yourself short. There are way cooler ways to move your body.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:45:08

        [laughs]

    24. JNJason Nemer1:45:08

        And way more fun things, and I just happen to have the good fortune to learn a lot of these really cool things and, yeah, so play.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:45:16

        Awesome. Uh, Jason, where can people find you online? What would you like them to check out?

    26. JNJason Nemer1:45:23

        Acroyoga.org is the website, and there are free learning opportunities. Uh, AcroYoga International is the name of the company that I run, and on YouTube, you can go there and see a bunch of free videos that get you started.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:45:37

        What is the handle on YouTube?

    28. JNJason Nemer1:45:39

        AcroYoga International.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:45:40

        Okay. AcroYoga International.

    30. JNJason Nemer1:45:41

        Yeah.

Episode duration: 1:47:17