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Tim FerrissTim Ferriss

LeBron James and His Top Secret Trainer, Mike Mancias | Interview on The Tim Ferriss Show

This episode represents the first time that LeBron James has been interviewed alongside his very below-the-radar, some might say top-secret, athletic trainer about details of training, recovery, diet, and even how much longer he hopes to…

Tim FerrisshostLeBron JamesguestMike Manciasguest
Dec 20, 20181h 7mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 4:57

    Cold open banter and show identification

    1. TF

      Optimal minimal. At this altitude, I can run flat-out for a half-mile before my hands start to shake.

    2. LJ

      Can I ask you a personal question? Now would seem an appropriate time.

    3. TF

      What if I give you alchemy?

    4. LJ

      I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

    5. MM

      The Tim Ferriss Show.

    6. TF

      [upbeat music] This episode is brought to you by 99designs. 99designs is the global creative platform that makes it easy for designers and clients to work together. From logos to apps and packaging to books, 99designs is the go-to design resource for any budget. I've used 99designs for many, many years now. I've used them for book covers, for instance, mock-ups for The 4-Hour Body, which went on to become a number one New York Times bestseller, illustrations for my multi-volume The Tao of Seneca, and other graphic design projects. And I've been really impressed by the quality of their designers and the designs that I've ended up using. Most recently, I used 99designs to update the illustrations and layouts of my Five Morning Rituals e-book. This covers my most consistent morning routines and rituals. And I offer that as an incentive for people to sign up for my newsletter. So this is a PDF bonus that acts as a carrot to increase the number of email subscribers. The illustrations inside are gorgeous, and I loved working with the designer who we selected for the project. So you can check it out. Take a look at that at 99designs.com/tim. That's the number, 99designs.com/tim, and you can see exactly what I'm talking about with a real-world example of what has come out of working with them. 99designs' designer search tool connects you directly with one designer based on a design category or an industry specialization, style, skill level, availability, and more. So you can really c- check all the boxes that you need and see who matches up. Or you can start a contest, and that means you invite the entire community to take a shot at your project, then you pick your favorite. Right now, you guys, my listeners that is, can receive a free $99 upgrade on your first design contest. So check it out. To see what it looks like to get your first free upgrade, please visit 99designs.com/tim and click on the link in the landing page. So again, check it out, 99designs.com/tim. [upbeat music] This episode is brought to you by Peloton, which I've been using probably for about a year now. Peloton is a cutting-edge indoor cycling bike that brings live studio classes right into your home. You can also do on-demand, which is what I do. We'll come back to that. So you don't have to worry about fitting classes into a busy schedule or making it to a studio or gym with a hectic or unpredictable commute. I, for instance, have a Peloton bike right in my master bedroom at home, and it's one of the first things I do many mornings. I wake up, I meditate for a bit, then I knock out a short 20-minute ride in my undies, hard to do that at the gym, take a shower, and I'm in higher gear for the rest of the day. It's really convenient and has become something that I look forward to. So you have a lot of options. For one, if you like, you can ride live with thousands of other riders across the country on an interactive leaderboard to keep you motivated. There are also up to 14 new classes added every day with more than 8,000 classes on demand, and you can pick based on length, 45 minutes, 20 minutes, whatever, music, hip hop, rock and roll, or, say, low impact versus high intensity or interval. You can pick the class structure and style that works for you. And in my case, I quite like Matt Wilpers, and I tend to do on demand and listen to a lot of and watch many of the same classes over and over. But I'm kind of promiscuous and also enjoy classes from a lot of the other instructors. They have, Peloton, an amazing roster of incredible instructors in New York City with a whole range of styles and personalities, so you can find what you're in the mood for. You also get real-time metrics that you can use to track your performance over time, and that will help, I would say, catalyze you to beat your personal best. Now, that all sounds good, right? Gamification, yada, yada, yada. I didn't think that it would work for me or in any way incentivize me, but they really 100% hit the nail on the head. I was very, very impressed with how motivating it was, [swallows] and it worked tremendously to keep me pushing, uh, which quite honestly takes a fair amount. I can get quite lazy, particularly with anything that edges on endurance, which is kind of more than five reps of anything for me. So check it out. Discover this cutting-edge indoor cycling bike that brings the studio experience right to your home. Peloton is offering listeners of this podcast a limited time offer. Go to onepeloton.com. That's O-N-E, Peloton, P-E-L-O-T-O-N.com and enter the code TIM, all caps, at checkout and get $100 off of

  2. 4:57 – 5:27

    Tim frames the episode: why this LeBron + Mike interview is different

    1. TF

      accessories with your Peloton bike purchase. So get a great workout at home anytime you want. Check it out. Go to onepeloton.com and use the code TIM to get started. [upbeat music] Hello, boys and girls. This is Tim Ferriss, and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. This is a very special episode because it represents the first time that LeBron James has been interviewed alongside his very below-the-radar, some might say top-secret, athletic trainer about details of training, recovery, diet,

  3. 5:27 – 9:58

    Who LeBron and Mike are (and why they’re here)

    1. TF

      and even how much longer he hopes to play in the NBA. And I did not have, as you might expect with King James, the usual two and a half, three, three and a half, four hours, so it is a neat 60 minutes, might come in a tad under that. And I was nervous and perhaps even a little over-caffeinated to make the most of the time, so you have that going for you. LeBron James, who is that, @KingJames on Instagram and Twitter, lebronjames.com, is widely considered one of the greatest athletes of his generation and is regarded by some as the best basketball player of all time. This interview was recorded the day after he passed Wilt Chamberlain's all-time scoring record. LeBron's accomplishments on the court include four NBA Most Valuable Player awards, MVP awards, three NBA Championships, and three NBA Finals MVP awards, two Olympic gold medals, and an NBA scoring title. He is the all-time NBA playoffs scoring leader and has amassed 14 NBA All-Star Game appearances, 12 All-NBA First Team selections, and five All-Defensive First Team honors. Throughout his career, James has used his platform to inspire and empower others through his LeBron James Family Foundation, which you can find at lebronjamesfamilyfoundation.org, that helps at-risk students in his hometown earn life-changing educations, culminating most recently in the opening of his I Promise School, which you can find at ipromise.school. He's also involved with SpringHill Entertainment, the entertainment company he co-founded with Maverick Carter that produces compelling and aspirational content for a cross-cultural audience on a variety of platforms including digital, film, and television, and Uninterrupted, a digital media company he and Carter co-founded that provides athletes with a platform to tell their stories. LeBron has a really diverse business portfolio. We won't be able to get into all of it right now, but includes all sorts of innovative endorsement deals and have established him as one of the most influential figures in all of sports. James has appeared on Forbes' list of the World's Most Powerful Celebrities, Time's annual list of the 100 Most Influential People in the World, and Bloomberg Businessweek's 100 Most Influential People in Sports. And now, LeBron, along with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Cindy Crawford, and Olympic gold medalist Lindsey Vonn, has founded Ladder, a health and wellness platform and brand that is launching today. The site, weareladder.com, is a resource for reaching fitness, nutrition, and health goals with tools and scientifically supported insights for addressing any frustrations or roadblocks along the way. Ladder also offers a community of experts for holding you accountable and nutrition products that are all NSF certified for sport, which is considered the gold standard for sports testing and approved by all major sports teams and the IOC, that is the International Olympic Committee. Ladder products contain no artificial ingredients, no artificial sweeteners, no fillers, and no proprietary blends. Now, allow me to introduce the other person in this interview, and then we'll get right to it, Mike Mancias. Mike Mancias, @mikemancias1, that's M-A-N-C-I-A-S, on Instagram and Twitter, is LeBron James' athletic trainer and recovery specialist, a position he's held for 14 years and counting. A veteran in the world of training professional basketball players, his experience also includes working with NFL, MLB, PGA, and top NCAA athletes. Throughout his tenure with LeBron, Mike has quietly developed a winning human-performance blueprint that encompasses everything from preventative medicine, strength training and rehab, nutrition, and the latest in recovery techniques, some of which we talk about in this interview. Mike's philosophy is one that is now commonly accepted by many athletes and trainers as the ideal 360-degree approach to wellness and performance. It was through this focus on nutrition, performance, and recovery that Mancias aided in developing the Ladder brand and its products. Originally from Brownsville, Texas, Mancias attended the University of Texas Pan American and graduated with a degree in health education. He's licensed and nationally certified by the accredited National Athletic Trainers Association and is a 14-year member of the National Basketball Athletic Trainers Association. That is the introduction, and without further ado, please enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with none other than King James, LeBron James, and Mike Mancias. [echoing electronic music] LeBron and Mike, welcome to the show.

    2. MM

      Thanks, Tim. Thanks for having us.

    3. LJ

      Appreciate it. Thank you for having us.

  4. 9:58 – 11:41

    How LeBron and Mike met, and what makes the relationship work

    1. TF

      My pleasure. I am thrilled to have the two of you on, in part because it is so difficult to do research on the two of you together, which is f-

    2. MM

      [laughs]

    3. LJ

      [laughs]

    4. TF

      ... fascinating to me. Mike, you're like the Banksy of elite trainers. Y- I see your, your art that is the product of the work that you do on television and everywhere, but you are like Batman. It's impossible to do research on you, which is, is really, uh, exciting for me as someone who's made a job of doing that. So I thought we could jump right into questions on my mind and questions on many minds, and, uh, we'll begin with a little bit of context, and maybe LeBron, if you wanna take this. How did the two of you first meet? You seem to have a very special relationship. I'd love to just get a little bit of background and your thoughts on what makes the relationship work so well.

    5. LJ

      Yeah, my second year, um, in the NBA with the Cavs, um, Mike was, was interning, um, with the Cavs at the time. And, um, you know, every day you kinda... I was trying to figure out a way how I could be more consistent, um, with my training and, uh, be more consistent with, you know, just trying to make the jump from my rookie year to my second year. And, um, you know, not only from afar, but from up close, I, I saw the, um, the demeanor and, um, the laser focus in Mike every single day on what he was doing, and I kinda resonated with that. And I just, you know, we started to have conversations. We started to, to talk more and more every day, um, and the relationship started to grow every single, single day. And, you know, I, I believe, you know, you know, the rest is history at this point. [laughs]

    6. MM

      Mm-hmm. [laughs]

  5. 11:41 – 14:37

    Recovery between games: assessment, food, hydration, and cold therapy

    1. TF

      S- so, so you two have done so much together, spent so much time together. Mike, uh, I'd, I'd love to dig into, I suppose, more than a few things, but to begin with, recovery and injury prevention. I mean, LeBron, you had such a momentous evening last night, so congratulations, of course-

    2. LJ

      Thank you

    3. TF

      ... on that. And, uh, you're a bit of a unicorn in the sense that you've played more than, as I understand it, 50,000 minutes in your career. Most hit a wall and deteriorate after, say, 40,000. So you're defying all the predictions of player decline. Uh, so Mike, maybe you can give us a window into some of that. And I've, I've, in the course of trying to do research, read about, say, recovery between games, which I, I've, I've picked up, maybe not true, electrostimulation machines, air pumped compression sleeves, soft tissue. Could you walk us through some of the tools of the trade and the approaches that you use to help with recovery in between games?

    4. MM

      Yeah. Yeah, Tim. Well, I think with, with LeBron, um, with any, any, you know, elite athlete, I think the one thing that we, we all as trainers and therapists have to keep in mind is that recovery never ends. Recovery never stops. Um, you know, i- if, if LeBron plays 40 minutes one night, if he plays, you know, 28 minutes one night, we're still going to, um, keep recovery as a number one focus. Uh, whether that being nutrition, whether that being hydration, uh, more flexibility exercises, stuff in the weight room. I- it's, i- it's this, it's a never-ending process, really. And I think that's the approach that we must take, um, i- in order for us to be successful, um, and provide longevity for these guys.

    5. TF

      Mm-hmm. And i- if, uh, if we look at just, say, the first few hours after particularly intense games, what, what is, what is some of the triage that you pull out of your, your bag to use?

    6. MM

      Yeah. Um, well, we'll, we'll do, like, a quick Q&A, uh, in, in, in the, in the locker room. I k- I kind of get a quick assessment as to, okay, how did the game go? You know, how, how was this feeling? How was this feeling, et cetera. Uh, and LeBron will give me some feedback on how he felt, uh, after each and every game, uh, believe it or not. So we'll, we'll, we'll do that, number one. Uh, and then we'll, then we'll start our process of, uh, hydration and nutrition, you know, 'cause he's, uh, he does, uh, spend a lot of energy out there, so we need to make sure that, um, that, that we feed him the right, the right calories. Uh, calories in, uh, like a protein shake, et cetera. Um, you know, a water or a sports drink. Um, and I, and, and number one, frankly, just, you know, some good food, some good high quality food. Uh, so that's, that's n- number one, right, like, right off the bat after a game.

    7. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    8. MM

      It's, uh, it, it's, uh, nutrition. Um, from there we go into, uh, you know, like a, a cryotherapy, either a cold tank, ice bags, uh, cryotherapy chamber, you know, whatever may be available at that particular night.

  6. 14:37 – 16:10

    Injury prevention philosophy: assessment first, then tailored training

    1. TF

      Mm-hmm. And if, if we're looking at, uh, general injury prevention, are there any particular... And I'll give one example. I've interviewed a number of Olympic sprint coaches, and in some cases they'll take something like the deadlift, but they'll, they'll modify it so that they're only lifting to the knee, and they'll drop so they're not risking hamstring injuries with the negatives. Are there any particular exercises that you feel are tremendously important for injury prevention, uh, or any that you avoid because you think that they could produce injuries?

    2. MM

      Um, well, I, I think with that question, I think, um, every athlete is different, you know, based on their, um, you know, j- just, just based on their, uh, on their body makeup. And so we have to, n- number one, you know, before we even prescribe any exercises, we have to do a quick assessment of their body. You know, is, uh, you know, do, do, do they have any factors that are limiting their range of motion? Uh, we'll start, you know, we'll start, uh, from the very bottom, and that's, uh, that's the big toe. You know, how much movement do you have in your big toe? And then you go up the chain, you know, the ankle, the knee, the hip, uh, the low back and the shoulders, et cetera. Um, once you get a quick assessment, then you can, uh, start to, uh, you know, kind of tweak your, uh, your workout routine, uh, by adding or subtracting, uh, you know, diff- different exercises. The second part of that is, okay, who are you dealing with? You know, LeBron's been in the league, this is, he's starting his 16th year, uh, in the NBA. Uh, he's played a lot of minutes, a high, uh, you know, high quality minutes, and so, you know, you, you just have to be smart as to, uh, your, uh, your prescription.

  7. 16:10 – 23:38

    LeBron on longevity, leadership roots, and the Man in the Arena mindset

    1. TF

      Mm-hmm. And L- LeBron, do you think that, uh, if you look at, for instance, the big names that came into the league around the same time that you did, it's, it's staggering to see how few of them are still playing, and yet here you are playing as the best in the NBA. Uh, are there any particular approaches you've taken or things that you attribute that to?

    2. MM

      Um, well, I can't speak on, on, on any other players or, or anybody that came in around my time or a little bit after me, or not too far when I came in, but I, I know me personally, I've just been very consistent with the process. I've been very consistent with training my body, rehabbing my body, um, you know, eating, you know, you know, having my body be very clean, uh, throughout this journey, because I've always wanted to have a, a long, um, you know, long career, or, or as long as I could be, you know, in, in this, in this, uh, in this, in this space. So, um, I've always kinda... You know, some- a, a friend of mine when I was, like, 13 years old, he used to always tell me, um, you know, "Play hard, have fun, and then, and stretch."

    3. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    4. MM

      You know, every game. Always play hard, have fun, and stretch. And, and that kind of always kind of stuck with me to when, even when I got in the NBA, like, always stretching and keeping my body flexible, keeping my limbs flexible. Um, so, you know, I can contribute to that, and doing it consistently. Just like leadership, you know. Leadership is not, uh, a one-day thing or you do it for two days or two months. Leadership is consistent, you know-

    5. TF

      Mm-hmm

    6. MM

      ... and I believe, you know, having longevity in the space that I'm in is also consistency as well, not only on the floor, but off the floor as well.

    7. TF

      Mm-hmm. So I'm glad you mentioned leadership. I was gonna get to it, but since we're already on topic, I spotted a, a picture of you with a copy of Leadership in Turbulent Times, which is a, a book by Doris Kearns Goodwin, uh, who's, who's also been on the podcast. And I've had a number of people Ask me to ask you about leadership. Uh, are there any particular leaders you admire or, or look to and study who come to mind?

    8. LJ

      Um, [sighs] you know what's crazy, Tim? I, I, I never grew up, um, looking for other leaders and saying I wanna be them or, or using what they did to incorporate it into me. Um, I, I believe that it was, you know, it was put on me before I even wanted to be a leader. Um, my grandmother passed away when I was three years old, and she was kind of the staple of the home. Um, and my mother had me when she was 16, but she was still in school. So, you know, I, being an only child, being one of the few men in the house, I kinda had to grow up and be kinda one of the leaders of the household very young, before I even wanted to, before you would want any chil- any child to become a leader. And then once you get into team sports, um, and you, you, you find some success, but you see how you're succeeding, you understand that it's not just about you. You understand that, you know, in order for you to continue to be successful, everyone has to feel important. Everyone wants to, you know, feel like they had something to do with the success and be a part of it, and I sensed that, um, you know, at a early age. And it's just continued until, you know, my adulthood as well. So I can't even sit here and say that I've, um, looked, you know, for leadership throughout others. Now, I've admired leaders like, you know, uh, Martin Luther King, um, is one of the greatest leaders I've ever, um, had an opportunity to just read about and, and, and watch, um, from a f- from afar, obviously. Um, you know, Muhammad Ali as well, um, you know, is one. Um, Barack Obama, um, i- is another. Um, and then my mother. I mean, I believe my mother is one of the greatest leaders and just in the fact that being a, a single parent mother in the inner city without any financial stability and then being able to raise a kid on her own at age 16. So, um, I, I had, um, you know, those examples. Um, but for me, I've always kinda learned on the fly as well.

    9. TF

      Y- your, your mother, the, the more I've done research, the more incredible your mother seems to me. H- how is-- how has she impacted the way that you think about parenting or being a father?

    10. LJ

      Um, well, from the beginning, you know, being a part of a single-parent household, when I, you know, when I fi- when I f- decided I wanna have a family, um, I was like, "I'm, I'm always gonna be a part of my kid's life." And, uh, no matter what, what goes on in my life, I, I just can't, you know, have my kids have some of the same why questions that I had when I was younger. Um, and then it's about, you know, the perseverance and, um, the patience, um, of being a parent is what I learned from my mom. My mom was just so perseverant. Um, and, and to-- for, for me, she never, um, had me in a situation where I felt like I wasn't special.

    11. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    12. LJ

      Like I wasn't, uh, one of the, the, the best kids in the world. And, um, and then from, you know, the, the, like I said, that leadership standpoint, she was just always a rock. No matter what was going on, she was always a rock and, and, and very patient with the process. And I, and I've taken that not only to being a father, but, you know, in life in general. I always preach this process thing because I, I, I just fell in love with it. I fell in love with the process throughout my whole life and throughout my basketball career to a point where, um, I, I don't, I don't like to look at the ending, you know, because I like to just live in, in the moment.

    13. TF

      And, uh, the, it's the, I think the consistency, which is, is, is such a focus for a lot of, at least my listeners, when they're looking at your career. It's, it's been astonishing to watch over time, and many people wanna know about the habits or the reminders, things along these lines. And one of the things I came across, I don't know if it's true, you could tell me, but did you at, at one point have Theodore Roosevelt's Man in the Arena quote in your locker?

    14. LJ

      Uh, still do.

    15. TF

      You still do.

    16. LJ

      [laughs]

    17. TF

      Why, why is, why-

    18. LJ

      I write it on, I write it on my shoes every game, too.

    19. TF

      All right. Why is that important to you?

    20. LJ

      Um, it's impo-- it just hit home for me at a point in time where, um, I was listening to people that I shouldn't have been listening to. Meaning, you know, there are always people out there that are gonna judge you and critique you and say that you should do this or you shouldn't do that. And, and at that point in time, um, you know, I wasn't mature enough to just believe in the decisions that I've made. And I'm a true believer in the more and more that you listen to things like that, then it'll creep into your mind, and you start to believe it. And once I started to study some of the great leaders that we've had in our, in our, in our time, uh, I ran across that, that quote from Theodore Roosevelt, The Man in the Arena, and it basically, um, for our listeners that don't know about it, it's basically saying that it, it truly doesn't matter, uh, what anyone says, um, because they, they've never stepped inside the arena. They've never had the blood and the sweat and the tears or paid their dues, um, inside the arena, so they can't really understand or critique you about what you're, what's going on in your life. And that, and that hit home for me, um, and that stuck with me for, you know, to this day.

  8. 23:38 – 29:04

    Sleep as a performance tool: environment setup and nightly habits

    1. TF

      Yeah, it's such a tremendous, tremendous quote. Uh, Mike, I'd love to come back to something you mentioned earlier, which was, uh, recovery never ending. And if-- I'd like to talk about the, I suppose, third of our lives or so that we spend asleep. Is there, is there-

    2. LJ

      [laughs]

    3. TF

      How do you think about sleep, and is there anything you do to optimize sleep or to help, uh, LeBron and others to optimize their sleep?

    4. LJ

      By the, by the way, Tim, he gets on me every single day.

    5. TF

      [laughs]

    6. LJ

      Every day. "Hey, hey, how much sleep, how much sleep did you get last night? How much sleep? How much sleep?" He gets eight hours, he gets nine hours, all, all the time.

    7. TF

      [laughs]

    8. LJ

      [laughs]

    9. MM

      Yeah. Hey, uh, Tim, by the way, that, that muffling you hear in the background is LeBron actually removing his ice bags.

    10. LJ

      Oh, yeah. Sorry.

    11. TF

      [laughs] No problem. [laughs]

    12. MM

      [laughs] Like, like we just said, recovery never stops, right?

    13. TF

      Mm.

    14. MM

      Well, we're, we're, we're sitting here doing this podcast, uh, in Los Angeles, um, and LeBron is, is, uh, is continuing to ice his knees and, uh, and the rest of his body right now in the middle of this podcast.

    15. TF

      [laughs] And s- s- so, so Mike, I'd, I'd love for, to, to hear your thoughts on sleep. This is something that a lot of people struggle with, and it would seem to be a very important potential asset for someone who is taxing his body as much as LeBron is.

    16. MM

      Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, um, you know, we, we've always learned and we always told LeBron about, um, the body does recover and it heals itself while, while we're asleep, while we reach our, our REM sleep and our deep sleep. Um, so any athlete, any... And you don't have to be a professional athlete. You, you know, whatever athlete at whatever level. You can be a, a, a businessman, a w- you know, a doctor, lawyer, et cetera. You know, you need your sleep, guys. And you, uh, you must sleep in, in, in order to recover from, from w- whatever it is. Either playing an NBA game or, uh, you know, a, a big night or, or a big day in the courtroom, you know, in the hospital room [laughs] or whatever. Um, you know, sleeping is, is when the body heals itself. So it's, it's, it's, uh, it's very, very important.

    17. TF

      Are there any particular techniques or tools or recommendations that, uh, that you've found to be helpful with athletes or that you've, you've tested and found effective?

    18. MM

      Yeah, um, you know, w- without, uh, you know, give, give- giving everybody, uh, all of our secrets, right? Um, you know, it, number one is, is, is be very, very comfortable, you know, in, in that room. You know, just create an environment. Um, you know, uh, for us [laughs] it's always, you know, for LeBron it's always in, in his hotel room. Making sure the temperature is set at, at, at a particular, you know, uh, probably 68 to 70 degrees is probably optimal.

    19. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    20. MM

      Um, ma- making sure the, the, the room is completely dark. You know, you have no distractions. Trying to turn off, you know, your, your-

    21. LJ

      Electronics

    22. MM

      ... your, all your, your electronics. Your TV-

    23. LJ

      TVs, all that stuff

    24. MM

      ... your televisions-

    25. LJ

      Yeah

    26. MM

      ... you know, your phones, et cetera. Just turn everything off, um, probably a half hour to 45 minutes before you actually, um, you know, want to go to sleep, and just really committing yourself to that, you know? You know, we, we, we all love to scroll on the internet and, uh, in our social media accounts, uh, at night, you know, to catch up on everything. But, um, you know, you owe it to yourself and you owe it to your recovery, uh, just to, just to commit to just, uh, creating an environment. Um, again, um, the room at an optimal temperature, uh, a dark, dark room, uh, you know, a, a, a comfortable bed, et cetera. And, um, you know, h- some people even use, uh, sleep apps.

    27. LJ

      [laughs]

    28. MM

      You know, like, uh-

    29. TF

      Mm-hmm

    30. MM

      ... you know, like soft music or-

  9. 29:04 – 34:36

    Diet, experimentation, and what they avoid in-season

    1. TF

      It, it, o- one thing I've also s- seemed to, uh, pick up just as a pattern is your willingness to experiment, and, uh, I'm, I'm sure that goes for both of you. But, but-

    2. MM

      Yes

    3. TF

      ... uh, the t- the topic of diet is one I'd love to discuss because it seems like you've tested many different diets ranging from low carb to probably high carb and everything in between. Could you give us an example of, of where you are now? Like, let's take just yesterday. Uh, could you tell us about some of the meals that you had or some of the food that you consumed yesterday?

    4. LJ

      Yeah.

    5. TF

      What that looks like?

    6. LJ

      Hold on. Let me, let me think about it. [laughs]

    7. TF

      Yeah.

    8. LJ

      Uh, yesterday I had a egg white omelet with the, um, with smoked salmon, um, and, uh, gluten-free pancakes with, uh, just, uh, berries. Um, that was my breakfast. Uh, for lunch I had whole wheat pasta, salmon, and vegetables. And right before the game I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And at halftime I had, uh, sliced, uh, apples with almond butter on top. Um, right after the game Mike gave me a protein shake, uh, to put in my system right after. I downed that right after the game last night. And then, um, for dinner I had, um, I had chicken parm with a rocket salad and a beautiful glass of Cabernet.

    9. TF

      [laughs] You have no idea how happy that detail makes me. Thank you for that.

    10. LJ

      [laughs] That was, that was my full day of, uh, yeah, that was it right there.

    11. TF

      You also have a very good memory. Uh, and-

    12. LJ

      [laughs]

    13. TF

      And, uh, I've been meaning to, I wasn't sure how to shoehorn this in, but you gave me an opening. You enjoy your wine.

    14. LJ

      I do.

    15. TF

      Do you, do you have any favorite wines that you can, uh, that you can mention or types of wines?

    16. LJ

      Um, y- uh, I have so many, Tim. I can't sit here and say what is my favorite. Um, but I am definitely a Bordeaux f- uh, fan, huge Bordeaux fan. Um, there are some, um, you know, Cabs that I love as well. Um, but there's some brands that I love as well. I love, you know, when you, we get to the higher level as far as, you know, like, um, um, you know, Screaming Eagle, um, you know, uh, Quintarelli, um, you know, uh, Rothschild. Um, there's s- s- like a whole, uh, [laughs] Latour. Um, there's so many different, uh, wines that I actually love. Um, so we, we, we, we'd be sitting here all day if I-

    17. TF

      [laughs]

    18. LJ

      ... if I get you a full list of my, uh, of my cellar that I got going on at home.

    19. TF

      That's, that's round two. Uh-

    20. LJ

      Yeah. [laughs]

    21. TF

      King Ja- King James sommelier.

    22. LJ

      Yes. [laughs]

    23. TF

      That'll be the, the next episode. Is there, is there anything that, and this, this, this can, uh, go out to either of you guys, but anything that you will not touch? Is there, be- besides the obvious kind of out of bounds, uh, illicit stuff, but are, are there any foods or drinks, anything in the food realm that you really just try to avoid 100%?

    24. LJ

      Yeah, I think, um, right now what we try to stay away from, and, you know, I don't wanna say even try to stay away from, we haven't had in a long time, is artificial drinks.

    25. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    26. LJ

      Uh, artificial sugars, um, and, uh, fried foods.

    27. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    28. LJ

      Um, kind of, we kind of stay away from the fried foods, at least during the season, and, and that's the both.

    29. TF

      Yeah.

    30. LJ

      That's the both accounts. You know, I, I have, you know, artificial drinks, you know, from time to time in the off season. Um, but during the season I don't, I, I pretty much don't have any fried foods, and I don't have anything that's artificial. We wanna keep it as, um, you know, as, you know, just natural sugars, um, and, you know, foods as, as, as much as possible. Just try to be clean as possible throughout the season when I'm burning so much and, and trying to get the recovery back.

  10. 34:36 – 36:44

    Mental preparation, self-talk, and learning from losses

    1. TF

      Thank you. Uh, LeBron, I, I would, uh, love to chat about, uh, self-talk for a minute because, uh, I've, I've watched you playing, I've watched video footage of you throughout your life, and it's, it's obvious, to me at least, it seems that, that there's quite a bit going on behind, behind the scenes, meaning in your own head, and that you're very good at centering yourself. What do you say to yourself or is there anything in particular that you say to yourself as you're getting prepared for a big game or right before a big game, uh, or after a hard loss, for instance?

    2. LJ

      Yeah, I think for me personally, before a big game I'm, um, I, I'm pretty consistent with my routine. And, uh, you know, I try to do the same thing, um, every single day on a game day, um, because that's just how I lock in.

    3. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    4. LJ

      And so right before I run out on the floor I'm just basically thinking about, um, the game plan that the coaching staff has given us. Um, what do I need to do personally not only for me to be successful but for my teammates to ultimately be successful and how I'm gonna lead these guys throughout good times and bad times throughout the course of a game, because that's what happens. Um, it's inevitable that that's gonna happen. Um, and then, um, to, to your notion of after a bad loss, I'm kind of re-thinking about and replaying the game into my head. Um, w- what happened, um, throughout the course of the game that made this loss become a bad loss? What did I do? What did I not do? What did we not do? Um, you know, because I wanna be better. I don't wanna dwell on that loss, um, but I do wanna know what there were things that I could've done or we could've done to prevent it if it happens next time.

    5. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    6. LJ

      Because I always preach, you know, the best teacher in life ex- is experience. And, and it's okay for you to experience defeat, but when you, when you're at, at a position where you may have to cross that, that threshold again, do you approach it the same way or do you learn from that? And that's what I try to do. I try to put myself in a mental state of how do I learn from that defeat? How do I learn from that loss?

  11. 36:44 – 41:13

    Leading a team: patience, individualized communication, and values

    1. TF

      Mm-hmm. And, and you're the leader of- Guys on a team who are, uh, all multimillionaires, some of the best athletes in the world with all sorts of different personalities, how do you, how do you think about supporting them when things go sideways or when, uh, people get frustrated? Uh, how, how do you th- how have you learned to be most helpful and effective in those circumstances?

    2. LJ

      I think if, one, the number one thing is patience. Um, and I think when I talk about patience, um, it comes back to being a father.

    3. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    4. LJ

      Um, you know, I have three kids and I want the best out of my kids, just like any parent in the world. But what I've learned is that to get the best out of my three kids, I can't approach them all the same way because they all have different personalities. They all are different. And I, I had to find out how do I tap into each one of my kids to get the same result but teach them differently? And, and that's the same with being the leader of a basketball team, uh, the leader of a franchise. You may not-- You can't, you can't express or talk to everyone the same way and expect to get the same result or get the most out of them because every personality is different. So one thing I may say to one player may trigger a s- a certain re- a different response than another player, and that's where the patience comes in, Tim, because you have to learn that.

    5. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    6. LJ

      You can't go in and say, "This is how I'm gonna lead." Yes, I'm a leader, but there's ways to lead because you have to learn those things that you can... You know, how do you approach this manner? If this happens, you know how you can speak to him. You know how you can speak to, to this player, to that player to get what you want to get out of them. So, um, it comes back to that, that, that patience of learning their mindsets, learning how can you get the most out of them, what triggers them to be best, to be their best, what triggers them to not be their best. So you, you, you learn that over time.

    7. TF

      Uh, and in the case of your own pregame routine, uh, y- I, I, I'm fascinated by the repetition of, of routines that work. As it, as it stands right now, what, what do you have in your pregame playlist? What is, what is, what is the music that, that you listen to?

    8. LJ

      Uh, it's gonna be hip-hop for sure.

    9. TF

      Uh-huh. Any s-

    10. LJ

      It's gonna be-

    11. TF

      Any specifics?

    12. LJ

      No. There's-- You know what's crazy, Tim? There's no specifics. It's like when I, when I-- once I start my routine, what-- Basically, once I get to the arena, that's when I start my routine as far as music. It, it's just, it's a feel for an artist that particular time that I know is gonna get me going. And it, and it could be a artist from, um, from New York. It could be a artist from California. It could be a artist from Florida, from Texas, from the Midwest. It all depends on what, what artist pops into my head that I know is gonna get me going, get my juices flowing, um, and get, and get my routine going. So I, I don't have like a, just a set game day routine. It-- I'm all over the place. And, and that's, that comes also from being a, a, a, a historian of, of, of music as well.

    13. TF

      Mm-hmm. What is, what is your tattoo-- I've, I've wanted to ask this. There's no real, uh, obvious segue for this, but I've wanted to know, uh, 'cause it seems to be an important theme in your life. Uh, the, the tattoo that you have loyalty on your side, can you explain what that means to you?

    14. LJ

      Yeah. Um, and on my other side it says family.

    15. TF

      Right.

    16. LJ

      So, um, you know, it's basically, it's self-explanatory. You know, when I talk about my family, um, you know, my family's, i- everything to me and I, and, and it's, it's a personal mantra of mine to always be loyal to my family. You know, not... You know, you're gonna have ups and downs, um, with your family. That happens. Um, there's gonna be times where, you know, you don't like what your family do or your family don't likes what you do. But at the end of the day, we're all loyal to, to one another and, you know, and, and that's okay. That happens. That's what a family is. A family, you know, is not a bed of roses. It comes with thorns, and you have to understand that. But at the end of the day, we will never let someone else infiltrate those thorns. And, you know, so when I got that tattooed on my, on my ribs, um, that's basically what it came down to, family loyalty and, and us always sticking together no matter, um, the trials and tribulations, the turbulence, the good, the bad, the ugly, uh, the sunshine and the thunderstorms. So-

    17. TF

      Mm-hmm

    18. LJ

      ... uh, that's what it came down to.

  12. 41:13 – 45:30

    Trainer support during setbacks and the off-season training balance

    1. TF

      And m- and Mike, if I could, uh, s- use that to lead into a question for you. How do you support your athletes when they're going through a difficult time, whether that is an injury, an unexpected setback, uh, psychologically having trouble contending with something that has, that has happened, whether it's on the court or, or off the court? Are there any particular approaches that you've found to be helpful, uh, whether it's in the last few years or just over the course of your career?

    2. MM

      Yeah. I, I think, uh, I think the, the number one thing for me has always been remain consistent. Remain consistent through the ups and downs and everything, uh, in between, as, as LeBron said. Um, you know, 'cause there, there-- I-if, if there is a setback, if there is, you know, something, something, uh, going on, um, you know, I always have to remain consistent, uh, with, with my job and with what I do. Now, I can always add or augment, uh, you know, something that, uh, that, that I feel might be beneficial. You know, i-i-if it's something as small as, uh, I don't know, a, a, a, a certain gift of kindness, uh, you know, just asking about the family. You know, are, are, are things okay outside of basketball? Are things okay outside of, uh, you know, the, the athletic realm, the athletic world? Um, and just try to, just to try to be there for them. Just try to be there for them through, uh... Again, it, it, it's all great when, uh, you know, we're scoring forty-five points a night and, and doing all these, all these wonderful things, but, um, is the athlete okay? Is the athlete doing well, uh, uh, mentally and spiritually? And so I, I try, I try to address it, um, you know, in a, in a multifaceted fashion.

    3. TF

      Mm-hmm. And for, for, for you, Mike, in the off-season, how, how do your priorities change, if at all, for, say, LeBron, in terms of, of training and anything else that comes to mind?

    4. MM

      Um, I, I think, uh, in the off-season we, we have to be smart. You know, um, um, LeBron gives everything he has, uh, for, for these nine months. Um, you know, and so m- m- my, my job is to be, uh, is to be smart about what we're doing, uh, as far as the volume of training that we're doing. Um, you know, and, and how, how much I see him. Uh, although we do, you know, tend to see each other pretty much, uh, every other day in the summertime, but it's, it- it's what we're doing and it's, uh, you know, managing and gauging his body throughout the summertime.

    5. LJ

      Yeah, he's, he's a lot more calm than I am, Tim, in the summertime.

    6. TF

      [laughs]

    7. LJ

      He c- c- he consistently tells me, "Hey, listen, man, you need to take a little bit more time off."

    8. MM

      Yeah, yeah.

    9. LJ

      We just went for nine and a half straight months-

    10. MM

      Yeah

    11. LJ

      ... and I'm like, "No."

    12. TF

      [laughs]

    13. MM

      Yeah.

    14. LJ

      I need to get back.

    15. MM

      Yeah, we gotta, we have to pull the reins a little bit sometimes.

    16. TF

      [laughs] Uh, do you, LeBron, have any, uh, any particular favorite exercises or forms of, uh, physical recreation in the off-season? I've read about yoga, Pilates. Versaclimber has come up a lot. Uh, are there-

    17. LJ

      Mm-hmm

    18. TF

      ... are there, are there any, any particular ingredients that li- you like to regularly inject into your off-season?

    19. LJ

      Yeah, be- besides the Versaclimber, I actually really like running on the football field.

    20. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    21. LJ

      Um, f- for two reasons. Um, you're outside, uh, which is always a, a cool way to, to exercise, and then it, it kinda takes me back to my high school days of playing the game of football.

    22. TF

      Yep.

    23. LJ

      You know? And, um, and I just have a, a huge, deep-rooted love of the game of football, so you know, get- being able to get that conditioning and get that cardio, being outside, but also being back on the football field, it, it just does something for me personally.

    24. TF

      Mm-hmm. And what, what might one of those workouts look like? Are you doing 400-meter repeats? Are you doing long, steady and slow?

    25. LJ

      It's more like-

    26. TF

      What do you, what type of workout?

    27. LJ

      Yeah, it's more like 100 yard, it's more like 100-yard sprints.

    28. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    29. LJ

      You know, from end zone to end zone, and we, we don't never have, like, a set number of how many we wanna do.

    30. TF

      Mm-hmm.

  13. 45:30 – 48:21

    Lessons from Tim Grover: consistency and being available

    1. TF

      Uh, Mike, a, a name that's come up a lot in, uh, doing research for this conversation is, uh, Tim Grover, and, uh, could, could you explain who that is and, uh, what you've, what you've learned from him?

    2. MM

      Well, uh, me growing up, you know, uh, I'll take it back a little bit. You know, I was a big, uh, Jordan fan.

    3. TF

      Mm-hmm.

    4. MM

      I was a big, you know, Chicago Bulls fan. Um, and so I was doing my own research, you know, back when, uh, you know, all you had was, uh, you know, [laughs] you know, press instead of, uh, in, in, uh, the internet. And so I was doing, uh, just asking around, you know, reading, uh, you know, reading up on, uh, on Jordan and the stuff that he was doing for his body. So his name came up a lot of times, and so I finally, uh, I gathered the stones to, uh, to, to, to get, to, to reach out to, to Tim. Um, you know, just some- somehow I tracked down his number and I told him what I wanted to do. I wanted to learn from him. Um, and he says, "Okay, well, um, why don't you come up to Chicago, um, and, you know, kinda intern or intern for us for, uh, for a couple weeks? Uh, M- MJ will be with us. He'll be, uh, getting ready to work with the Washington Wizards." You know, he just signed his deal with the Wizards. Uh, and so, "I'm in the middle of doing that, so, uh, you're more than welcome to come up." And, you know, uh, thank God, uh, thank God that I caught Tim in a, in a great mood that day.

    5. TF

      [laughs]

    6. MM

      Um, and so, uh, you know, so he invited me up to Chicago and I spent a few weeks with them, with him and with, uh, along with MJ, and, uh, I learned a lot. I learned a lot in those two weeks. I learned, uh, you know, how, how to, um, how to work with an elite athlete, uh, of, uh, of, of Michael's stature. So, uh, it was, uh, it was, uh, invaluable. I learned what to do, what not to do, what, you know, stuff I should stay away from, stuff I should really augment. Um, so it was, it was a great education, uh, great educational experience for me.

    7. TF

      Mm-hmm. In, in terms of, uh, things to stay away from, was there, was there anything that sticks out in your mind as a, as a key learning or takeaway in that department? Or it could be one of the other categories, but is there any, anything specific that, that, that comes to mind?

    8. MM

      Um, anything specific as far as an athlete training, working with a, with an athlete of that caliber is to remain consistent. To remain consistent. Um, you know, it, it, it's no particular exercise. There's no particular stretch. It's all about, uh, your own mindset and, and your own confidence working with, with someone like Mike and, and now obviously working with someone like, uh, like, uh, like, uh, LeBron. So i- it's all about how to approach it mentally and how to be consistent for that athlete. Again, just to just be that rock.

    9. TF

      Consistency.

    10. MM

      Yeah.

    11. TF

      So, so this, this is a good opportunity-

    12. LJ

      And, and available.

    13. TF

      Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

    14. LJ

      And available.

    15. MM

      And available, uh-

    16. TF

      Mm-hmm

    17. MM

      ... you know, 24/7.

    18. LJ

      Yeah, I may wake up at, like, 3:00 in the morning wanting to get a workout in.

    19. MM

      Yeah.

    20. TF

      Mm-hmm. [laughs]

    21. LJ

      It's happening.

    22. TF

      On d- on demand.

    23. LJ

      Yeah.

  14. 48:21 – 58:07

    Ladder: why they built it, what’s inside, and what it’s for

    1. TF

      Which, which I think is, is a good window to start chatting about a new collaboration, uh, that, uh, you're both involved with. I mean, LeBron, you've, you've become a very active businessman and investor over, uh, the course of your career, and there, there are many things we could discuss related to that. But, uh, one that I think is very relevant to our conversation right now is, is Ladder. And, uh, there are a lot of people out there who, uh, are constantly asking themselves, and every time they get to New Year's, make resolutions related to loving and not dreading- ... fitness and wellness and of trying to f- trying to find an, an, a way to attack it that leads them to passion and not feeling burdened with responsibility. Could, uh, could you guys, uh, and either one of you can, can grab this, uh, explain what Ladder is and, and what is, what is the purpose behind it?

    2. MM

      Um, I, I think what the, what, with the whole idea behind Ladder and, you know, starting this company, um, it, it, it started way back probably around 2014. Uh, we were, we were, uh, kind of at a crossroads of, uh, okay, what else could we add to our, to our, uh, to our, uh, to our routine as far as nutrition goes, you know? Uh, I felt like we were just beginning to scratch the surface as to what was available out there. Um, but unfortunately we found that, you know, some of the stuff that, that, that's out there, you know, they, all these big companies have all these proprietary blends, and we weren't sure, you know, okay, what, what exactly is in these proprietary blends? And so, uh, we, you know, we, we will start, we will start with a company, we'll start with something off the shelf, uh, that was NSF certified, but, you know, we just didn't, didn't wanna take the chance of, of, of, you know, to continue to use these products. Uh, and so, you know, we, we, we got together with, with LJ and said, uh, you know, "Let's really do some more research as to what, what is out there that, uh, that, that is not available for us, um, and, and, and why not?" And so we, we started to do some more research, um, after 2014 when unfortunately he experienced, uh, you know, I think, uh, the, the much publicized, uh, and critiqued, uh, cramping game in 2014 during the finals. Um, you know, that's when, when, when LeBron and I really got together and said, "Okay, what are we missing here?" You know, "What, why are we cramping here? Uh, we're doing everything we can for hydration. Now let's, let's, let's dive deeper into this 'cause it's obviously affecting our performance and, and our productivity." You know, maybe to some degree it cost us a championship. So, um, we, we, we started doing, like I said, more and more research as to what's out there, uh, and just, we, we finally came up with the [laughs] with the right ingredients. And you know what? L- like we mentioned earlier, we kept it simple, Tim. We kept it really, really simple and very transparent, uh, to the public as to what, what we were, um, w- w- what's, what's in these products.

    3. TF

      Right. And it, it's, it's, uh, you mentioned a few things that I wanna underscore for folks also. You know, the NSF Certified for Sport, which is, you know, effectively considered the gold standard for testing and approved by s- not only the major sports teams, but the IOC and so on. So for, for, for competitors, extremely important to, to know exactly what you're putting into your bodies for, uh, any, any number of, of, of reasons. Uh, but f- and, and for, for people who are, uh, looking for supplementation or, uh, tools to augment, uh, their physical activity, uh, you've, you've also assembled a, a, a very strong team of, of founders. Um, so I, I was wondering if you could chat a little bit about the, the people involved and why that particular team has been assembled for this.

    4. MM

      Um, well, I can, I can talk about that, Tim. Um, you know, obviously, um, two of our, our founders are, are Arnold Schwarzenegger and, and Cindy Crawford, and, um, and I can speak upon, uh, Arnold. For one, we, we, we've been in business for quite a while now together, um, through a mutual friend of ours, and obviously his history, um, of what he's done in his career as far as nutrition and, and, and, and, and training and things that, um, goes without even noted, without even talking about. We, we know how unbelievable he's been, um, in, in his career, so that, that makeup and that match fit perfectly. And also the same with, uh, Cindy Crawford as well. You know, she's, um, you know, been doing, um, the wellness and the health and, and the training and everything she's been doing throughout her whole life and, and it made sense, uh, for her to be a part of the team as well. Um, and we also, um, have, um, you know, Lindsey Vonn as well, um, you know, one of the greatest, um, you know, athletes of, of, of her s- um, genre, um, in, in, in her craft as well. Um, so we wanted to be able to, to assemble, uh, not only people that's actually lived this life, but also people that people can relate to as well. Um, so it, it all made sense for all of us.

    5. TF

      Mm-hmm. And, and looking at the, the materials that, that I reviewed, you know, the, the, the message in effect of life is a workout-

    6. MM

      Yes. Mm-hmm

    7. TF

      ... and recognizing that the physical part of your life is really part of everything, right? I mean, it is-

    8. MM

      Absolutely

    9. TF

      ... the, it is the vehicle for everything else, and your mind is part of your body. Uh, so if you want to care for that, you also have to care for the overall package that is your physical totality. Uh, is... LeBron, you must have thousands of opportunities come to you and get pitched to you, uh, I, I would imagine on-

    10. MM

      Right

    11. TF

      ... not just a annual basis, but a monthly or weekly basis.

    12. MM

      [laughs]

    13. TF

      I mean, you could drown in the number of pitches you would receive. Why is this important to you?

    14. MM

      Um, well, I think it goes back to what Mike was, was speaking upon. You know, when we had that, that moment, uh, during the finals, um, we were kinda mind-boggled because we, we know how much, um, you know, we know how much we, we, we take care of the body. We know how much we, um, you know, put into the body, what we put into our body. We know how much, uh, liquids and throughout, throughout the whole day. And for that to happen at, at a very important moment in my career, um, we were searching for answers. And, uh, for us to get to this point now where we found the answers, I told Mike, um, "Listen, you go out and, and, and, and do the research. Um, I trust you. I've been with you for over a decade plus now. Um, only thing I ask is that we make sure that everything is clean, um, because that's, you know, that's what's most important than anything, you know? I, I, you know, I've trained, uh, my body, we've trained our body throughout this whole process, um, and, and you know my body more than I know it."

    15. LJ

      Um, so that's how it all got started. And, and I think, you know, everything that I've ever done, Tim, has always been authentic to myself. I mean, you know, authentic to what I do on a day-to-day basis. If, if it's from, you know, a few years ago having a bike-a-thon in my hometown, is ... It, it all stemmed from me, uh, training, uh, riding mountain bikes in the summertime for, uh, getting back into shape. Uh, you know, so that's how that came about. If it's, um, anything that I've done in my career, it's always been authentic to who I am. You, you look at, like you said, some of the things that I'm doing now as far as the production of TV shows and things of that nature, it stems from me, uh, loving TV and loving the fact that being that to engage, uh, people's mind and emotions and things of that nature is authentic to myself, and that's what, um, that's what Ladder is all about as well.

    16. TF

      Mm-hmm. And, uh, it, uh ... Is Ladder also going to have an editorial resource component? Because of the, the, uh, the URL, weareladder.com, um, as I understand it, is, is also going to have a lot of answers to questions with scientifically supported-

    17. LJ

      Absolutely

    18. TF

      ... responses to topics ranging from, you know, fitness to nutrition, uh, to various types of, of health problems. How do you, uh, envision ... You know, Mike, maybe if you wanna chat-

    19. MM

      Yeah

    20. TF

      ... uh, on that side of things. How do you, how do you envision that serving people, and what would people go there to find?

    21. MM

      Yeah. I mean, uh, it- it's, uh ... You know, we wanna provide a, a, a, uh, one-stop shop, uh, for, for athletes and for, uh, you know, for ev- everyone else, you know, who's, who's interested in, in, in maybe, you know, getting some sort of gain, uh, from, from not only a product but, but from, uh, just a lifestyle stance here. Um, you know, we could all improve. We could all improve in, in, in whatever field that we're in, um, whether, [laughs] you know, we, we, we take it by leaps and bounds or we take it by inches. Uh, you know, we could all c- we could all improve. And part of it is creating that environment. Uh, you know, w- by, by, by, by environment, I'm meaning, uh, that website, you know, the social media stuff where athletes can go in and, and tap into our resources. And our resources, um, you know, it's gonna be a panel of, uh, of, of, of experts, uh, in, in, in their field, you know, and not only athletic performance but, uh, you know, um, social behavior, psychological behaviors, mental stuff. It, it's, it's, it's all vital. It's all vital. And it's more about, uh, the athletic realm. It's, it's about living your best life, I guess, um, you know, and, uh, and improving.

    22. TF

      Uh, this is, uh, uh, I ... This is something that, that fits a very particular, uh, sort of Venn diagram for me, which is something that was born out of the two of you scratching your own itch, right? You mentioned the, the cramping, uh, in 2014. And, uh, I, uh, I'm always most interested when a service or product is born out of an unaddressed need, an unmet need from one of the founders themselves. And, uh,

  15. 58:07 – 1:01:12

    How long LeBron wants to play, plus wrap-up and where to follow

    1. TF

      it seems like you'll be making tools available to people that would otherwise, uh, well, perhaps be, be limited to some of these high-level athletes you mentioned, and that's exciting. Uh, I would, I would also be remiss if I didn't ask you, LeBron, and, and we'll, uh ... I know we, we have just a few minutes left here, but, uh, how many more years would you like to play?

    2. LJ

      Um, I would love to see the floor with my, uh, son.

    3. TF

      Mm-hmm. Amazing.

    4. LJ

      Yeah. Uh, my son is in eighth grade now. Um, if he continues on the path that he's on right now, he could possibly be in the NBA in five, six years. So-

    5. TF

      Amazing

    6. LJ

      ... we, we ... That would be, um, that would be a unbelievable moment for not only myself but for my family, for my, for, for everybody. So we'll see. Um-

    7. TF

      Yeah

    8. LJ

      ... obviously taking care of the body is number one, and we will-

    9. TF

      [laughs]

    10. LJ

      You know, we will c- continue to do that. But more importantly, taking care of the mind. If your mind's not fresh, then your body will fall at the waistline. So, um, through the, through the grace of the man above and through, um, everything that myself and Mike and, and, and my support team do, um, that would be, um, that would be pretty dang on cool if I'm able to be on the NBA floor with my, uh, my oldest son.

    11. TF

      That would be amazing. Well, I look forward to watching that. And you guys have been very generous with your time. I appreciate you making it happen. And, uh, I'm very excited to see what both of you do and, uh, what Ladder does. People can find Ladder at weareladder.com. Of course, LeBron, you're everywhere @KingJames on Twitter and Instagram. [laughs] LeBron on Facebook. Uh, Mike, I, I'm not sure. Smoke signals? Uh, carrier pigeon? H- how should people-

    12. MM

      [laughs]

    13. TF

      How should people find you if there is a way to find you? Or should they just, just watch your good deeds through the, through the athletes that you work with?

    14. MM

      Y- y- you know what? Um, I think, um, our body of work together, you know-

    15. TF

      Mm-hmm

    16. MM

      ... uh, with LeBron on the court, I think that's, um, that's, uh, that, that, that's proof, proof in itself. If you do wanna follow on Instagram, it's, it's @mikemancias1. Um, and that's ... And th- I think I have the same Twitter handle as well.

    17. TF

      Perfect.

    18. MM

      Um, I'm pretty sure.

    19. TF

      [laughs]

    20. LJ

      [laughs]

    21. MM

      But, uh, you know. But, uh, it's, uh, it's all good. It's all good, and, uh, it's an exciting journey for me.

    22. LJ

      Absolutely.

    23. TF

      Beautiful.

    24. LJ

      Bless.

    25. TF

      And, and I will link to everything we've discussed, people listening, in the show notes as per usual at tim.blog/podcast. And LeBron, we didn't have time today to get into the Family Foundation, but you're doing incredible work. And I wanna, uh, just thank you, among many other things, for doing so much for the kids of Akron. Uh, I think it's, it's really tremendous.

    26. LJ

      Oh, app-

    27. TF

      I've looked very closely at it myself, uh, for, uh, inspiration for things I hope to do. So I, I, I appreciate you putting that much time and effort and care back into the community that you came from.

    28. LJ

      I appreciate it, Tim. Thank you very much.

    29. TF

      All right. Well, guys, I will let you get running. You have, you have icing to do. You have-

    30. LJ

      [laughs]

  16. 1:01:12 – 1:07:02

    Post-episode notes: Five Bullet Friday and additional sponsor mentions

    1. TF

      All right. Thanks very much. Bye-bye. Hey, guys. This is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up [laughs] in the, uh, the world of the esoteric, as I do. It could include favorite articles that I have read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little, tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com. That's fourhourworkweek.com, all spelled out, and just drop in your email, and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it. This episode is brought to you by Peloton, which I've been using probably for about a year now. Peloton is a cutting-edge indoor cycling bike that brings live studio classes right into your home. You can also do on-demand, which is what I do. We'll come back to that. So you don't have to worry about fitting classes into a busy schedule or making it to a studio or gym with a hectic or unpredictable commute. I, for instance, have a Peloton bike right in my master bedroom at home, and it's one of the first things I do many mornings. I wake up, I meditate for a bit, then I knock out a short 20-minute ride in my undies, hard to do that at the gym, take a shower, and I'm in higher gear for the rest of the day. It's really convenient and has become something that I look forward to. So you have a lot of options. For one, if you like, you can ride live with thousands of other riders across the country on an interactive leaderboard to keep you motivated. There are also up to 14 new classes added every day with more than 8,000 classes on demand, and you can pick based on length, 45 minutes, 20 minutes, whatever, music, hip hop, rock and roll, or, say, low impact versus high intensity or interval. You can pick the class structure and style that works for you. And in my case, I quite like Matt Wilpers, and I tend to do on demand and listen to a lot of and watch many of the same classes over and over. But I'm kind of promiscuous and also enjoy classes from a lot of the other instructors. They have, Peloton, an amazing roster of incredible instructors in New York City with a whole range of styles and personalities, so you can find what you're in the mood for. You also get real-time metrics that you can use to track your performance over time, and that will help, I would say, catalyze you to beat your personal best. Now, that all sounds good, right? Gamification, yada, yada, yada. I didn't think that it would work for me or in any way incentivize me, but they really 100% hit the nail on the head. I was very, very impressed with how motivating it was, and it worked tremendously to keep me pushing, uh, which quite honestly takes a fair amount. I can get quite lazy, particularly with anything that edges on endurance, which is kind of more than five reps of anything for me. So check it out. Discover this cutting-edge indoor cycling bike that brings a studio experience right to your home. Peloton is offering listeners of this podcast a limited time offer. Go to onepeloton.com. That's O-N-E, Peloton, P-E-L-O-T-O-N.com, and enter the code TIM, all caps, at checkout and get $100 off of accessories with your Peloton bike purchase. So get a great workout at home anytime you want. Check it out. Go to onepeloton.com and use the code TIM to get started. This episode is brought to you by 99designs. 99designs is the global creative platform that makes it easy for designers and clients to work together. From logos to apps and packaging to books, 99designs is the go-to design resource for any budget. I've used 99designs for many, many years now. I've used them for book covers, for instance, mock-ups for The 4-Hour Body, which went on to become a number one New York Times bestseller, illustrations for my multi-volume The Tao of Seneca, and other graphic design projects. And I've been really impressed by the quality of their designers and the designs that I've ended up using. Most recently, I used 99designs to update the illustrations and layouts of my Five Morning Rituals e-book. This covers my most consistent morning routines and rituals. And I offer that as an incentive for people to sign up for my newsletter. So this is a PDF bonus that acts as a carrot to increase the number of email subscribers. The illustrations inside are gorgeous, and I loved working with the designer who we selected for the project. So you can check it out. Take a look at that at 99designs.com/tim. That's the number 99designs.com/tim, and you can see exactly what I'm talking about with a real-world example of what has come out of working with them. 99designs' designer search tool connects you directly with one designer based on design category or industry specialization, style, skill level, availability, and more. So you can really check all the boxes that you need and see who matches up. Or you can start a contest, and that means you invite the entire community to take a shot at your project, then you pick your favorite. Right now, you guys, my listeners, that is, can receive a free $99 upgrade on your first design contest. So check it out. To see what it looks like to get your first free upgrade, please visit 99designs.com/tim and click on the link in the landing page. So again, check it out, 99designs.com/tim. [upbeat music]

Episode duration: 1:07:17

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