Lessons Learned and Mantras Used After 1,000,000 Arrows — Olympic Archery Medalist Jake Kaminski

1. 0:00 – 0:44

   Start.

   1. JKJake Kaminski0:00

      My coach/mentor at the time, Harry Stabel, would come downstairs, 'cause it was down in, like, a, a secondary level below, and he'd have a metal ashtray. Back then everybody smoked.

   2. TFTim Ferriss0:11

      [laughs]

   3. JKJake Kaminski0:12

      And he would just throw it randomly on the concrete ground when I'm at full draw. And, "Ugh, ugh," [laughs] and I have to regain composure and shoot a shot, right?

   4. TFTim Ferriss0:19

      Yeah.

   5. JKJake Kaminski0:19

      So there was all sorts of weird stuff that happened all the time.

   6. TFTim Ferriss0:22

      Some, some Mr. Miyagi-

   7. JKJake Kaminski0:23

      Yeah, yeah

   8. TFTim Ferriss0:24

      ... action going on.

   9. JKJake Kaminski0:24

      [laughs] There was a lot of stuff that happened that definitely would not fly in today's day and age.

   10. TFTim Ferriss0:29

       [laughs]

   11. JKJake Kaminski0:30

       So it's like, "Oh, you're dropping your bow arm." That's, like, a, a thing that when you shoot the shot, you have to maintain the bow up. You don't wanna drop the arm.

   12. TFTim Ferriss0:37

       Yeah.

   13. JKJake Kaminski0:37

       So he'd take his pocket knife out, flip it open, turn it upside, and say, "Don't drop your arm."

   14. TFTim Ferriss0:41

       And put it under your arm.

   15. JKJake Kaminski0:42

       Under my arm.

   16. TFTim Ferriss0:43

       [laughs]

2. 0:44 – 0:57

   Greetings

   1. TFTim Ferriss0:45

      Jake Kaminski.

   2. JKJake Kaminski0:46

      Tim Ferriss.

   3. TFTim Ferriss0:46

      Nice to see you, man.

   4. JKJake Kaminski0:47

      Yeah, nice to see you, too.

   5. TFTim Ferriss0:48

      So glad to be doing this. I was joking before we recorded that we could just treat this like conversation 678, something like that. We've had a lot of conversations.

   6. JKJake Kaminski0:56

      Might be double

3. 0:57 – 5:23

   A glimpse into the high-precision world of Olympic archery.

   1. JKJake Kaminski0:57

      that.

   2. TFTim Ferriss0:57

      It might be double that.

   3. JKJake Kaminski0:58

      Yeah.

   4. TFTim Ferriss0:58

      It is probably double that if we count texts in the many, many thousands, and [laughs] then videos. It just goes on and on.

   5. JKJake Kaminski1:03

      Yeah.

   6. TFTim Ferriss1:03

      So let's give people some context. We're gonna do a deep dive into the world of archery. We're going to do a deep dive into the world of high performance-

   7. JKJake Kaminski1:12

      Mm-hmm

   8. TFTim Ferriss1:12

      ... which transcends archery. So if you think to yourself, "Archery, meh, I'm not interested in flinging arrows," still listen. There's gonna be a lot here. And we're also gonna talk about your coaching-

   9. JKJake Kaminski1:24

      Mm-hmm

   10. TFTim Ferriss1:24

       ... and our experience, coach and student, and what we did with that, which I think is pretty special and fun to unpack. So we're gonna go in a lot of different rabbit holes, but let's start for people who are not familiar with Olympic recurve, what does that mean?

   11. JKJake Kaminski1:44

       So the sport of Olympic archery, as I grew up it was just called recurve-

   12. TFTim Ferriss1:49

       Mm

   13. JKJake Kaminski1:49

       ... 'cause that was the discipline, but now it's known as Olympic archery because there's many different disciplines that have spun off from that kind of bow. But essentially what it is is a, a sport of hyperprecision. It's just how good can you work with a machine, your bow, to produce the exact same result every single time at an extreme distance. So when I grew up, we shot up to 100 yards, which is easy to see. It's end zone to end zone on a football field. But now the Olympic distance is 70 meters or 77 yards or 237 feet. So that's, you know, about three-quarters of the way down the football field.

   14. TFTim Ferriss2:22

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JKJake Kaminski2:22

       So we're shooting an arrow that distance. The arrow reaches 12 to 13 feet in the air in an arcing trajectory to the target.

   16. TFTim Ferriss2:30

       No magnification, all-

   17. JKJake Kaminski2:32

       Zero magnification. No rear sight, in fact.

   18. TFTim Ferriss2:34

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JKJake Kaminski2:34

       So you don't even have something to align up in the back-

   20. TFTim Ferriss2:37

       Mm

   21. JKJake Kaminski2:37

       ... other than a string. You're using a blurry string that is very imprecise in your reference.

   22. TFTim Ferriss2:42

       And for people who are trying to get an idea of what it means to perform at a very high level, the center of the target, how large is that, and what does that mean for the amount of motion that is permissible at the arrow point?

   23. JKJake Kaminski3:03

       The 10 ring, the maximum scoring ring, is 12.2 centimeters or about the size of a CD. You have to not only take into consideration your alignment with that arrow and that bow, but also you have wind.

   24. TFTim Ferriss3:15

       Yep.

   25. JKJake Kaminski3:15

       So there's a lot of factors that are-

   26. TFTim Ferriss3:16

       Or precipitation.

   27. JKJake Kaminski3:17

       Or, yeah, anything.

   28. TFTim Ferriss3:18

       [laughs]

   29. JKJake Kaminski3:18

       Anything but lightning.

   30. TFTim Ferriss3:19

       Yeah.
4. 5:23 – 12:55

   How Jake and I connected.

   1. TFTim Ferriss5:23

      let's back up and share some context on how we first connected. So the world of archery is, I'm not gonna say it's opaque, because it's not opaque, but it can be difficult n- to navigate. And when I was first trying to find potential coaches, and I can come back to why I was doing that, I went where? I went online, I went to YouTube, but one of the challenges, as most people will recognize, is that, let's just say for trick shooters, and there's some amazing trick shooters, which is not to discount that as a discipline- But people can take a thousand attempts and then show their best outcome. And we were talking about this [laughs] earlier, but when they actually go to retrieve their arrow, look at the rest of the target face

   2. JKJake Kaminski6:14

      Not only retrieve their arrow, just look at the target in frame behind them. Oftentimes it's like there's a burlap wrap over the target, 'cause people use bag targets, that's what they're called, and you know how worn out they can get.

   3. TFTim Ferriss6:25

      Yeah.

   4. JKJake Kaminski6:25

      Yours are nowhere near as worn out as 90-plus percent of those trick shooters.

   5. TFTim Ferriss6:30

      Yeah.

   6. JKJake Kaminski6:30

      And yeah, they show you that one impact, but look at the target behind them.

   7. TFTim Ferriss6:34

      I think what you're alluding to is that if, if you're hitting the center of the target consistently, you're basically gonna carve out a sweet spot, and then you have to replace that portion of the target face if it's replaceable. There's a lot of, I suppose, selection and highlights online, and it can make it very, very difficult, es- particularly if you're coming in as a novice, you don't know how to sort or separate fact from fiction, you don't know where to go. And so what I ended up doing was asking myself a question I ask a lot, and for people who've read The 4-Hour Chef, which is actually about accelerated learning, this approach will sound familiar, but this is a chance to see it unfold in recent history and sort of in real time, 'cause we're still training.

   8. JKJake Kaminski7:16

      Mm-hmm.

   9. TFTim Ferriss7:17

      How can I find an objective measure for this sport, for this discipline? And there are almost always options. For instance, I've had Susan Garrett on this podcast. She is a multiple time agility champion, so a dog agility champion. She's a multiple national time champion. That is an objective competition with set scoring, with set penalties, under time, and there's-

   10. JKJake Kaminski7:49

       In front of an audience

   11. TFTim Ferriss7:49

       ... and there's nowhere to hide.

   12. JKJake Kaminski7:50

       Yeah.

   13. TFTim Ferriss7:50

       Right? There's nowhere to hide.

   14. JKJake Kaminski7:52

       Yeah.

   15. TFTim Ferriss7:52

       So that is how I ended up having Susan Garrett on the podcast versus a million celebrity dog coaches where it's impossible to actually know what you're buying, because you don't have any of the outtakes, you don't have a lot of objective measurement. And in this case I was like, "All right. Well, I think archery's in the Olympics. Let me look this up. [laughs] Oh, it's in the Olympics. Great. Let me try to use that as a sorting mechanism." And that is how I found your amazing YouTube channel. You wanna give it a plug? What's-

   16. JKJake Kaminski8:21

       Yeah. It's just Jake Kaminski.

   17. TFTim Ferriss8:22

       Yep. I mean, when we have gone anywhere related to archery, it's like trying to move around with The Rock or Lady Gaga or some combination of the two. [laughs] You just get mobbed, because in a world where it can be very difficult to decipher what is legitimate, you offer the bona fides and a lot of really good technical instruction. So that's how I found you.

   18. JKJake Kaminski8:45

       Mm-hmm.

   19. TFTim Ferriss8:45

       And then reached out.

   20. JKJake Kaminski8:46

       Yeah.

   21. TFTim Ferriss8:46

       And then lo and behold, here we are, and it's, it's really worked out incredibly well. And my background, just quickly, it's not that extensive, but I've been bow hunting for at least 10 years, a bit more than that. Did rifle prior to that. First hunt ever was with Steven Rinella during the writing of The 4-Hour Chef, so thanks to Steve Rinella. People can check him out, everything meat eater. Also an amazing writer. And I'll give people a bit of a flash forward, and then we can talk about all sorts of stuff, including your kind of training regimen for yourself and development and so on. But began taking barebow archery, we can talk about what that is, but it's effectively, for the purposes of this conversation, it's a competition classification, and it dictates that you basically strip off all the stabilizers, the clicker, don't worry about these things, the sight, et cetera, from an Olympic bow.

   22. JKJake Kaminski9:43

       Essentially all the aids.

   23. TFTim Ferriss9:44

       Yeah, all the aids.

   24. JKJake Kaminski9:44

       Everything that makes it simple.

   25. TFTim Ferriss9:46

       Yeah, you take off-

   26. JKJake Kaminski9:47

       Relatively

   27. TFTim Ferriss9:47

       ... all of the performance aids, and then you shoot with-

   28. JKJake Kaminski9:51

       Mm-hmm

   29. TFTim Ferriss9:51

       ... that particular bow. And I became interested in barebow for a few reasons. I saw it online on YouTube while I was tooling around trying to find something, and there is something called Lancaster Classic.

   30. JKJake Kaminski10:04

       Mm-hmm.
5. 12:55 – 15:48

   Jake's auspicious introduction to archery.

   1. TFTim Ferriss12:55

      but let's talk about Jake. [laughs] So, so how did the archery thing start? Why don't you just take that and run with it, and then I might pepper in questions along the way.

   2. JKJake Kaminski13:06

      Sure. So I grew up in a very small town in Elma, New York, kind of south of Buffalo, New York, and my dad was a volunteer fireman at the local fire department, and they have a spring and a fall gun raffle every year. And, you know, they raffle off guns and a canoe full of beer or whatever else, right?

   3. TFTim Ferriss13:25

      [laughs]

   4. JKJake Kaminski13:25

      And one of them was a bow.

   5. TFTim Ferriss13:27

      Yeah.

   6. JKJake Kaminski13:27

      And he won the bow gun raffle. I was five years old. And of course, this was a, you know, hunting bow for an adult, so there's no way a five-year-old's gonna use that. So we found, I think we went to Kmart and bought a bear hunting compound for a kid, just fiberglass, super cheap, very basic. My parents bought me that for my sixth birthday.

   7. TFTim Ferriss13:48

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JKJake Kaminski13:48

      So on my sixth birthday, after we got hay bales from a local farmer or whatever, threw up a target, and I shot my first arrow at 20 yards. And 20 yards is more than double the distance that you would really wanna have any person, not just a kid, shoot their first arrow. I vividly remember my very first arrow I ever shot because I literally shot an inside out X on my very first arrow.

   9. TFTim Ferriss14:12

      [laughs] You should explain what that is.

   10. JKJake Kaminski14:13

       So inside out X, meaning if you have your, your 10 ring, like the maximum scoring ring, inside the 10 ring is a X ring. It's about the size... It's like a, between a dime and nickel.

   11. TFTim Ferriss14:24

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JKJake Kaminski14:24

       About that size. And inside out meaning I put the arrow in the dead center of the target where it did not touch the ring of the X.

   13. TFTim Ferriss14:32

       Yeah.

   14. JKJake Kaminski14:32

       So it was inside of a dime, roughly.

   15. TFTim Ferriss14:35

       Yeah.

   16. JKJake Kaminski14:35

       My very first arrow.

   17. TFTim Ferriss14:36

       [laughs]

   18. JKJake Kaminski14:36

       We won't talk about the next several hundred arrows. [laughs]

   19. TFTim Ferriss14:39

       I mean, thank God for that first arrow, right?

   20. JKJake Kaminski14:40

       Yeah, I mean, I was hooked.

   21. TFTim Ferriss14:41

       I mean, it's kind of crazy, I've heard this story, to think, like if your first 20 arrows had been all over the place, would it have been a different story? Like maybe, you know?

   22. JKJake Kaminski14:52

       Maybe.

   23. TFTim Ferriss14:53

       It's crazy.

   24. JKJake Kaminski14:53

       Yeah.

   25. TFTim Ferriss14:53

       Who knows?

   26. JKJake Kaminski14:54

       Yeah, really no way to know.

   27. TFTim Ferriss14:55

       Yeah.

   28. JKJake Kaminski14:56

       And I was with my brother Matt, he was out there shooting with me.

   29. TFTim Ferriss14:58

       Yeah.

   30. JKJake Kaminski14:59

       And I don't know if he shot before me, but after I shot the X, he's like, "Give me that thing." And of course, he hit the target either.
6. 15:48 – 16:36

   Why you (Yes! You!) should try archery.

   1. TFTim Ferriss15:48

      So l- let's pause for a second.

   2. JKJake Kaminski15:49

      Yeah.

   3. TFTim Ferriss15:49

      Just for people who have no archery context, and by the way, my not-too-secret agenda for this is I want everybody to go out and try archery. It is, it has been such a godsend for me to have that constant for a million reasons. It f- it turns into a form of meditation. It can also be just as frustrating, if not more frustrating than golf, but [laughs] let's put that aside for now. It, it has been such a gift to my life to have archery and to be able to train with you. It, it's really been tremendous. So I have this not-so-secret agenda of getting as many people as possible who are listening to try archery, which by the way, is very much within reach for basically everybody listening.

   4. JKJake Kaminski16:32

      Oh, absolutely.

   5. TFTim Ferriss16:33

      If you have a smartphone and you're listening to this-

   6. JKJake Kaminski16:34

      You can do it

   7. TFTim Ferriss16:35

      ... you can try archery.

7. 16:36 – 19:53

   The differences between bows.

   1. JKJake Kaminski16:36

      100%.

   2. TFTim Ferriss16:36

      You do not need to buy anything. But let me explain a term. So long bow is about the simplest thing you can imagine. Let's call it a stick. It's bent, and then you have a string attached to it, and you'll see this in many different indigenous hunting cultures. You'll see it all over the world. Recurve you'll also see all over the world because they figured out, well, you can make the bow a lot shorter-

   3. JKJake Kaminski16:58

      Mm-hmm

   4. TFTim Ferriss16:58

      ... and have the ends of the bow recurve out, like, kind of towards the target to apply more tension.

   5. JKJake Kaminski17:06

      It's like a advanced long bow using laminations of wood instead of just a stick.

   6. TFTim Ferriss17:10

      Exactly. So now you have this laminated bow, and you see that all over the world, right? It's all over the world, and there are different iterations of that. You've got the, well, slightly different idea, but horse bow, which I'm, of course I'm, I'm in love with. That's a whole separate, uh, podcast, and so on and so forth. So if you imagine, like, a Robin Hood bow in your mind, I think it was a recurve, in maybe the cartoon at least, made out of fancier materials, whether it's carbon or aluminum or something else, then you have the idea of what I'm shooting when I'm doing, say, barebow.

   7. JKJake Kaminski17:49

      Sure.

   8. TFTim Ferriss17:50

      And then a compound has various cams. You can think of them almost like cams on a weightlifting machine. Actually-

   9. JKJake Kaminski17:59

      Or like pulleys.

   10. TFTim Ferriss17:59

       Yeah, pulleys.

   11. JKJake Kaminski18:00

       Yeah.

   12. TFTim Ferriss18:00

       Pulleys and cams. So it's like when you are in a gym using a machine, pushing or pulling, there's a strength curve, so the amount of exertion required changes over the course of that full range. And in the case of a compound bow, very similar. And what makes it such an efficient, amazing hunting tool, there are a few factors. One is- In the beginning, it's hard, it's hard, it's hard, and then there's a let-off. So you might have, I'm making up these numbers, but 60-pound draw weight, and then you're holding, what would you say?

   13. JKJake Kaminski18:33

       Maybe between 8 and 12 pounds-

   14. TFTim Ferriss18:35

       8 and 12 pounds

   15. JKJake Kaminski18:35

       ... depending on if it's a hunting or a competition bow.

   16. TFTim Ferriss18:38

       Yeah, right. So 8 or 12 pounds when you're at anchor, and to define that, that's when you have your, very simple terms, your hand that is attached to the string, whether you're using fingers or a mechanical release, when your hand is kind of glued to your face, and you always glue it to the same place to set up the rifle barrel, so to speak. That's one element of what makes compound so interesting. The second is when you have these additional mechanical aids, let's just say, the speed of the arrow-

   17. JKJake Kaminski19:08

       Mm-hmm

   18. TFTim Ferriss19:08

       ... is just-

   19. JKJake Kaminski19:09

       Dramatically more

   20. TFTim Ferriss19:10

       ... dramatically, dramatically more. All right, so-

   21. JKJake Kaminski19:12

       The main difference-

   22. TFTim Ferriss19:13

       Mm-hmm

   23. JKJake Kaminski19:13

       ... in a compound versus everything else is there's one string on every other bow called a single string bow, whether that be a, a trad bow, a stick bow-

   24. TFTim Ferriss19:22

       Traditional bow, yeah

   25. JKJake Kaminski19:23

       ... yeah, recurve, a bear bow-

   26. TFTim Ferriss19:25

       Mm-hmm

   27. JKJake Kaminski19:25

       ... whatever that is, whereas compound has three strings, essentially.

   28. TFTim Ferriss19:28

       Yep.

   29. JKJake Kaminski19:28

       When you look at it, you can see multiple strings because the string tension, as you pull it back, it builds, but then it transfers that tension into the cables, which are the other two strings that the arrow's not attached to.

   30. TFTim Ferriss19:39

       Yeah.
8. 19:53 – 21:08

   The admirable proficiency of Shot IQ's Bodie and Joel Turner.

   1. TFTim Ferriss19:53

      Maybe you s-

   2. JKJake Kaminski19:53

      That's where, that's where I started

   3. TFTim Ferriss19:54

      ... maybe you stay with compound.

   4. JKJake Kaminski19:55

      Yeah.

   5. TFTim Ferriss19:55

      And at the highest levels, they do some absurd, absurd things.

   6. JKJake Kaminski19:59

      Yeah. Yeah.

   7. TFTim Ferriss19:59

      Actually, I just have to give credit where credit is due, so also have had some fantastic conversations with Joel Turner, Shot IQ, his son, Bodhi. Do you wanna just explain what he's capable of doing?

   8. JKJake Kaminski20:12

      Sure. So you know that X that I shot the inside out on my first arrow? So he will shoot that X, so that same hitting that dime, for about 120 arrows in a row, essentially, under pressure when there's $100,000 plus on the line.

   9. TFTim Ferriss20:31

      Yeah.

   10. JKJake Kaminski20:31

       And you would not know just looking at the kid. He is just stone cold, like ice in his veins. You'd have no idea that he even had a heartbeat just watching him shoot because he's incredible. To be able to hit that thing repeatedly with so much precision and repeatability under pressure, most importantly, it's just, it's ridiculous.

   11. TFTim Ferriss20:50

       Yeah.

   12. JKJake Kaminski20:50

       It's, it's different, you know. We'll get to talking about, a little bit about compound and how there's a, I guess, a less steep learning curve. You get really good really fast as far as precision-

   13. TFTim Ferriss21:01

       Yep

   14. JKJake Kaminski21:01

       ... but still to win with a compound in a competition, it still requires immense amounts of effort and energy-

   15. TFTim Ferriss21:07

       Yeah

   16. JKJake Kaminski21:07

       ... and training.

9. 21:08 – 24:08

   Ethical bow hunting, performing under pressure, and transitioning from rifle to bow.

   1. TFTim Ferriss21:08

      So we're gonna come back to your trajectory in a second, pun intended, but let- let's mention that briefly because I didn't really fill in the gaps. The compound bow that I used for hunting-

   2. JKJake Kaminski21:20

      Mm-hmm

   3. TFTim Ferriss21:21

      ... was fantastic. I thought it was a great transition for me because I was more familiar with rifle and so on.

   4. JKJake Kaminski21:26

      Sure.

   5. TFTim Ferriss21:26

      It was actually a fantastic transition. I would hunt once a year, let's just call it, something like that, use everything, eat everything, for those people wondering, and the hop from rifle and so on to compound was actually quite easy. And I, I needed to brush up on a few things, obviously learn some technical details, think about back tension a bit, et cetera, but for someone with a sports background, it was pretty straightforward.

   6. JKJake Kaminski21:56

      Yeah.

   7. TFTim Ferriss21:56

      And if you're thinking about the target size, right, the kinda kill zone on whether it's a deer or an elk, I mean, certainly a lot larger on an elk, but to... You can get to a point if you have some kinesthetic awareness very quickly, I would say within a week for a lot of folks maybe. Maybe it's-

   8. JKJake Kaminski22:17

      Yeah, so to be, like, ethical as a hunter-

   9. TFTim Ferriss22:20

      Yeah

   10. JKJake Kaminski22:20

       ... to, you know, know that when you take the shot, you're not gonna do the animal any suffering. It will-

   11. TFTim Ferriss22:25

       Yeah

   12. JKJake Kaminski22:25

       ... be a very, very painless and fast end.

   13. TFTim Ferriss22:29

       Yeah. It takes more time to get to that point, yeah.

   14. JKJake Kaminski22:31

       It, well, depends. It depends on the distance that you're shooting.

   15. TFTim Ferriss22:34

       Yeah, yeah.

   16. JKJake Kaminski22:34

       So say, we'll say 20 yards, right?

   17. TFTim Ferriss22:36

       So what I was gonna say is 20 yards-

   18. JKJake Kaminski22:37

       Yeah

   19. TFTim Ferriss22:37

       ... just, just as people can imagine.

   20. JKJake Kaminski22:38

       So 20 yards, your average person, I could get them to hit that pie plate. It depends on the coach, of course, and depends on explanations and the individual person as well, but I would say easily within a week you're gonna hit that thing nine to 10 times out of 10 every time.

   21. TFTim Ferriss22:54

       Yep.

   22. JKJake Kaminski22:54

       Within a day, you'll hit it probably six to eight times out of 10-

   23. TFTim Ferriss22:57

       Yep

   24. JKJake Kaminski22:57

       ... because it's just easy, relatively speaking-

   25. TFTim Ferriss23:00

       Yep

   26. JKJake Kaminski23:01

       ... to get to that level-

   27. TFTim Ferriss23:02

       Yeah

   28. JKJake Kaminski23:02

       ... real quick.

   29. TFTim Ferriss23:03

       And there are a lot of reasons for that, right?

   30. JKJake Kaminski23:04

       Yeah.
10. 24:08 – 25:01

    Why I wouldn't have cut it as a competitive archer in Korea.

    1. TFTim Ferriss24:08

       We'll probably end up talking about Korea later, and maybe we can just give a sneak peek. I know we're going all over the place, but I remember you said to me at one point, and please correct me if I'm getting this wrong, if, if each country could field as many athletes as they wanted for a given sport, that Korea would probably place one to 100

    2. JKJake Kaminski24:27

       At minimum. Bare minimum, yeah.

    3. TFTim Ferriss24:29

       Yeah.

    4. JKJake Kaminski24:30

       Yeah.

    5. TFTim Ferriss24:30

       It's basically their, let's just call it basketball, football, baseball all wrapped into one.

    6. JKJake Kaminski24:35

       Yeah.

    7. TFTim Ferriss24:35

       Right?

    8. JKJake Kaminski24:36

       It is their national sport.

    9. TFTim Ferriss24:37

       Yeah, I mean, they are obscenely, obscenely good.

    10. JKJake Kaminski24:39

        Yeah.

    11. TFTim Ferriss24:40

        And you'd said to me before, if you or I were scouted and assessed early on, we wouldn't have made the early cuts.

    12. JKJake Kaminski24:49

        No, you would've immediately-

    13. TFTim Ferriss24:50

        'Cause I'm cross-eyed, dumb, and-

    14. JKJake Kaminski24:51

        Because of your eye dominance-

    15. TFTim Ferriss24:52

        Yeah, I'm right-handed-

    16. JKJake Kaminski24:53

        ... I'd immediately been discarded

    17. TFTim Ferriss24:54

        ... but my left eye is my aiming eye.

    18. JKJake Kaminski24:56

        Yeah.

    19. TFTim Ferriss24:56

        So I would've been gone. I would've-

    20. JKJake Kaminski24:57

        And I get a little bit too excited.

    21. TFTim Ferriss24:59

        Yeah.

    22. JKJake Kaminski24:59

        So I would've also been discarded.

    23. TFTim Ferriss25:00

        You, you'd have been cut.

11. 25:01 – 30:53

    Mindful archery and training hard to make competition easy.

    1. JKJake Kaminski25:01

       100%.

    2. TFTim Ferriss25:01

       So what are some maybe good decisions or habits that you made early on, let's just say before you ended up in San Diego, that you think helped you to perform the way you performed in those early stages? I think I can think of one example, but I'll hold it for now, which is where you're placing yourself in the gym and how you're training.

    3. JKJake Kaminski25:25

       I would say for me, one of the biggest advantages w- as a human, not just as an archer, but as a human, was the same kind of thing that you saw, was a meditative escape, right?

    4. TFTim Ferriss25:40

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JKJake Kaminski25:40

       Because when you're shooting archery, that's the only thing you can focus on, 'cause if you're thinking about anything else, your scores go down, your groups open up.

    6. TFTim Ferriss25:46

       Yeah, you know if you're meditating poorly very quickly.

    7. JKJake Kaminski25:49

       100%.

    8. TFTim Ferriss25:50

       [laughs]

    9. JKJake Kaminski25:50

       So I think for me that, that gave me a place to kinda go to.

    10. TFTim Ferriss25:56

        Mm-hmm.

    11. JKJake Kaminski25:56

        Like, I escaped to archery, right? So I feel like that was definitely a big factor as to what led to that. Just, it naturally worked for me. It wasn't, wasn't difficult for me. It is hard. It's hard to stay focused on something so simple and repetitive over and over again, but it was very enjoyable because it's just me, the bow, and the arrow.

    12. TFTim Ferriss26:19

        Mm-hmm.

    13. JKJake Kaminski26:19

        I love competing as well. I used to play baseball when I was a kid, and that competed with my archery time, 'cause I was trying out for the state team in baseball and, or about to, and winning nationals shooting archery. So it's like, I kinda had an easy decision there to make because I was already winning nationals in archery, so I went with that. But the overall just enjoyment of shooting archery and enjoying that me and the bow and no one else is gonna prevent me from beating someone else. It's not like they're interfering with me-

    14. TFTim Ferriss26:49

        Mm-hmm

    15. JKJake Kaminski26:49

        ... or trying to prevent me from shooting my arrow. It's very nice, and it's also 100% objective. There is no, no subjectivity. There's no way for anyone to influence the outcome other than maybe at some weird m- position a judge to make a bad call, but it's almost n- never happening.

    16. TFTim Ferriss27:07

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JKJake Kaminski27:07

        It just doesn't happen because it's such a small community, and everybody holds each other accountable, which is also an- another amazing thing about the community of archery.

    18. TFTim Ferriss27:16

        Mm-hmm.

    19. JKJake Kaminski27:16

        So I think that was a big factor there. As far as, you know, what you're alluding to-

    20. TFTim Ferriss27:20

        Mm-hmm

    21. JKJake Kaminski27:20

        ... and, and bringing up and, and saying is I choose to make things as difficult as possible when I'm practicing. Like say if I'm out at a range, I'll choose the lane nearest the wall so I have the least amount of space, and we'll probably get into why we do that-

    22. TFTim Ferriss27:36

        [laughs]

    23. JKJake Kaminski27:37

        ... in, in a little bit here, but I would suggest you to do the same thing as we were working together-

    24. TFTim Ferriss27:41

        Mm-hmm

    25. JKJake Kaminski27:41

        ... and you at first were like, "Why? Why would I do that? It's much better to just stand by myself out in the open and have no influence."

    26. TFTim Ferriss27:46

        Yeah.

    27. JKJake Kaminski27:47

        Well, it's because when you're shooting at, on a line in a tournament, you have 24 inches of space roughly for yourself, and you're, the next guy's 24 inches, then the next guy, and so you're stacked in there like a can of sardines. Like-

    28. TFTim Ferriss27:59

        Yeah, we can get a photo of me at Lancaster-

    29. JKJake Kaminski28:01

        Yeah

    30. TFTim Ferriss28:01

        ... for people who wanna see what it looks like.
12. 30:53 – 33:52

    What Jake did when compound bow archery started to get boring.

    1. TFTim Ferriss30:53

       And let's... And if I'm skipping any important chapters, let me know.

    2. JKJake Kaminski30:56

       Sure.

    3. TFTim Ferriss30:56

       But I wanna know when KSL entered your life, and who or what is KSL?

    4. JKJake Kaminski31:03

       Sure. So quickly, before, before we get into KSL-

    5. TFTim Ferriss31:07

       Yeah, yep

    6. JKJake Kaminski31:07

       ... so started shooting compound.

    7. TFTim Ferriss31:09

       Yep, right.

    8. JKJake Kaminski31:09

       The easier sport to get into. Shot that for six years, and then some other of the friends that I developed at the, the archery range that I was going to were going to the Empire State Games. It's like a mini Olympics.

    9. TFTim Ferriss31:21

       Mm-hmm.

    10. JKJake Kaminski31:21

        And it's for all of the regions of within New York State, and they compete against each other, different events. You go to a place, there's opening ceremonies, closing ceremonies.

    11. TFTim Ferriss31:29

        And they have this for a bunch of sports.

    12. JKJake Kaminski31:31

        It's amazing.

    13. TFTim Ferriss31:31

        Yeah.

    14. JKJake Kaminski31:32

        And so I, I wanted to do the archery thing, but compound wasn't in it, only recurve.

    15. TFTim Ferriss31:36

        Uh-uh.

    16. JKJake Kaminski31:36

        And I had really debilitating target panic, basically dealing with aiming in the middle and the irrational fear to aim in the middle with the intention of shooting the shot.

    17. TFTim Ferriss31:45

        Which is quite common.

    18. JKJake Kaminski31:46

        It's a common thing. So I wanted to shoot recurve because it's a change, something different. Archery was starting to become un-fun for the compound side of things because of that target panic, so I picked up the recurve and it has a device called a clicker, which is essentially a psycho trigger that is a, both a draw check to make sure your draw length, the distance you pull the bow back, is the same every single time, but it also gives you a cue to tell you when to let go. So it allowed me to aim in the middle with more comfort to disassociate from that fear of letting go-

    19. TFTim Ferriss32:17

        Yeah

    20. JKJake Kaminski32:17

        ... and missing the middle, right?

    21. TFTim Ferriss32:18

        So let me give, let me give people a visual that might help you imagine what a clicker is. It's a flat piece of metal that it, it, that it goes on the outside of the arrow. I actually used one for the first time today, and holy God, is it challenging to figure out.

    22. JKJake Kaminski32:30

        [laughs]

    23. TFTim Ferriss32:31

        But if you were to imagine, let's say you're using a slingshot. Most people know a slingshot. But let's say instead of shooting a ball bearing, you're shooting an arrow out of this slingshot, and there's a piece of metal that is leaning against the arrow as you pull it back in the slingshot. Once it flips past the very front of that arrow point, this is not the perfect analogy, but it works, and clicks onto another piece of metal, that's when you let go.

    24. JKJake Kaminski32:59

        Correct.

    25. TFTim Ferriss32:59

        Whether you think you're ready or not, right? And what that's gonna do is standardize how much you pull it back.

    26. JKJake Kaminski33:04

        Mm-hmm.

    27. TFTim Ferriss33:05

        Right? And it also takes away the decision to let go.

    28. JKJake Kaminski33:10

        Let go. Yes.

    29. TFTim Ferriss33:10

        Right?

    30. JKJake Kaminski33:11

        Exactly.
13. 33:52 – 37:08

    Meeting legendary Coach Kisik Lee (KSL).

    1. JKJake Kaminski33:52

       And just continued to do that, shot up through the ranks, started winning nationals as a junior, and then at a tournament called the... Well, actually it was Junior World Championships at US Target Nationals, I was shooting against some other people that had just moved to the training center to work with KSL, who we'll get to in a second, and I was the only person to beat the person who was working with KSL. And he came up to me after the match and said, "Hey, you're pretty good, and I'd like you to come out to the training center and work with the junior dream team." It was a squad at the time that would go out there maybe once a quarter. And I said, "Actually, I just applied to become an RA, a resident athlete. I'd like to, you know, move out there full-time in a couple months." And he said, "Great. I'll keep an eye out for your application and keep it up."

    2. TFTim Ferriss34:41

       Mm.

    3. JKJake Kaminski34:41

       And he disappeared. And so KSL is Kisik Lee, my coach, and he is the godfather of archery in Korea, essentially.

    4. TFTim Ferriss34:51

       Mm.

    5. JKJake Kaminski34:51

       He essentially left Korea and went to Australia for a few years.

    6. TFTim Ferriss34:55

       What did he do in Korea?

    7. JKJake Kaminski34:56

       Oh, he was the national head coach of the Korean archery team and formulated the entire, mm, program-

    8. TFTim Ferriss35:03

       Mm

    9. JKJake Kaminski35:03

       ... that is the current Korean archery training regiment to develop archers.

    10. TFTim Ferriss35:09

        Mm-hmm.

    11. JKJake Kaminski35:10

        And to put it, like as a quick example as to the, the type of celebrity level that he is, any time we would fly to Korea, a limo would show up. He didn't order it, but the limo would show up. We flew there for a tournament and a limo showed up, and he said, "Can't fit the team in the limo. No, thanks." And I'm at a tournament in Puerto Rico, we're in a sauna, me and another archer, with some other random Korean, he looked Korean, and he ended up being from Korea, and he said, "Oh, why are you guys here?" "We're here shooting archery." "Oh, did you know archery is a national sport in Korea?" "Yeah, we do actually, and our coach is actually Korean, it's Kisik Lee." "Kisik Lee? Oh my God." Do you have any idea, like, the level of, you know, celebrity and how important he is to the country, like culturally?

    12. TFTim Ferriss35:56

        Yeah.

    13. JKJake Kaminski35:57

        Just random sauna in Puerto Rico, you know?

    14. TFTim Ferriss35:59

        Yeah.

    15. JKJake Kaminski35:59

        I don't know. [laughs]

    16. TFTim Ferriss36:01

        Yeah.

    17. JKJake Kaminski36:01

        So that kind of level.

    18. TFTim Ferriss36:02

        Yeah.

    19. JKJake Kaminski36:02

        And so he left Korea, went to Australia, worked with them to develop a national program. I think before he was working with them officially, he w- went to biomechanics school to try to apply more efficient movements to his method. And he also, prior to that, to jump backwards, part of the development of the Korean national program was looking at the, the US program back in the '80s. We were dominant worldwide and hadn't lost a world championship for decades, and were just powerhouses on the international scale. And so he mimicked the program that we were doing, or at least the movements, positions, that kind of thing, and implemented that in Korea as a national system that would start from grassroots from day one no matter what. And then that's why we would be thrown out, 'cause we didn't fit the mold.

    20. TFTim Ferriss36:50

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JKJake Kaminski36:50

        That's how strict they are. So- He went to Australia, made a better program, and then ultimately ended up coming to the States. And so he just got hired in 2006 in, like, January.

    22. TFTim Ferriss37:02

        Mm-hmm.

    23. JKJake Kaminski37:02

        So just before Junior World Championships, I moved out to the training center and started training under Coach Lee in 2006.

14. 37:08 – 39:24

    The upsides of having no social life as a kid.

    1. TFTim Ferriss37:08

       Okay. So we're gonna pick up there in a minute, but I wanna just pause because you're already doing very, very well.

    2. JKJake Kaminski37:16

       Mm-hmm.

    3. TFTim Ferriss37:17

       Right? So you mentioned a few things that influenced that, right? You found it appealing, easy to use archery as maybe an escape, right?

    4. JKJake Kaminski37:27

       Mm-hmm.

    5. TFTim Ferriss37:27

       A meditation. You made training as difficult as possible. Do any other things come to mind-

    6. JKJake Kaminski37:34

       Yeah

    7. TFTim Ferriss37:34

       ... that were decisions you made or things you did differently that you think contributed to those successes prior to moving out to the training center?

    8. JKJake Kaminski37:43

       Yeah, I think one of those things, honestly, was I did not really mesh well socially with other kids.

    9. TFTim Ferriss37:50

       Yeah.

    10. JKJake Kaminski37:50

        And so I didn't really have a ton of friends.

    11. TFTim Ferriss37:53

        Yeah.

    12. JKJake Kaminski37:53

        It was a very odd situation. I think, uh, definitely a lot of it is I'm an intense person as it is.

    13. TFTim Ferriss37:58

        [laughs]

    14. JKJake Kaminski37:59

        And so I take things very seriously.

    15. TFTim Ferriss38:01

        His, his, his wife is laughing from-

    16. JKJake Kaminski38:02

        [laughs]

    17. TFTim Ferriss38:03

        ... around the concrete pillar. [laughs]

    18. JKJake Kaminski38:04

        Yes. So, uh, yeah, so I take things, yeah, very seriously.

    19. TFTim Ferriss38:09

        [laughs]

    20. JKJake Kaminski38:10

        And as a kid, that can make things difficult.

    21. TFTim Ferriss38:12

        Yeah.

    22. JKJake Kaminski38:13

        Even though talented in sports, baseball-

    23. TFTim Ferriss38:16

        Mm-hmm

    24. JKJake Kaminski38:16

        ... just any throwing sport really, and archery. And just didn't fit in in school. So I, I basically built a shell around myself, didn't talk to anyone in school because I got made fun of and got, just overall, not attacked because it wasn't physical really.

    25. TFTim Ferriss38:32

        Yeah.

    26. JKJake Kaminski38:32

        It just, just wasn't something I was interested. I wasn't wanting to participate in social life.

    27. TFTim Ferriss38:36

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JKJake Kaminski38:36

        So I just made a shell around myself and stayed inside of that in school.

    29. TFTim Ferriss38:41

        Mm-hmm.

    30. JKJake Kaminski38:41

        And in archery, I didn't have that identity.
15. 39:24 – 40:24

    The welcoming weirdness of archery communities.

    1. TFTim Ferriss39:24

       And I want to, this is as good a point as any, to say that part of what got me excited about archery was realizing how welcoming-

    2. JKJake Kaminski39:37

       Mm.

    3. TFTim Ferriss39:37

       The communities are.

    4. JKJake Kaminski39:38

       It is.

    5. TFTim Ferriss39:38

       Right? And there are different personalities, right?

    6. JKJake Kaminski39:40

       Yes.

    7. TFTim Ferriss39:40

       It's like compound crew is different from the Olympic crew, which is different from [laughs] the bare bow crew, which is very different from the horse bow crew.

    8. JKJake Kaminski39:46

       Oh, yeah.

    9. TFTim Ferriss39:47

       They're all, like, different, uh, [laughs] very different, Burning Man camps with super different personalities.

    10. JKJake Kaminski39:53

        [laughs]

    11. TFTim Ferriss39:54

        But broadly speaking, incredibly welcoming.

    12. JKJake Kaminski39:57

        Yes.

    13. TFTim Ferriss39:57

        People are happy to give you advice, give you pointers, help you out, and I mean this in the best way possible, it's also kind of like weirdo-palooza. I mean, it's like-

    14. JKJake Kaminski40:06

        Oh, for sure

    15. TFTim Ferriss40:07

        ... like, and it doesn't matter.

    16. JKJake Kaminski40:08

        No.

    17. TFTim Ferriss40:09

        Right?

    18. JKJake Kaminski40:09

        No.

    19. TFTim Ferriss40:09

        It's like, okay, like there's some dude in a kilt. Okay, whatever.

    20. JKJake Kaminski40:12

        Whatever.

    21. TFTim Ferriss40:12

        And then there's like some-

    22. JKJake Kaminski40:13

        That's normal

    23. TFTim Ferriss40:14

        ... emo chick with a Mohawk. Yeah, okay, whatever.

    24. JKJake Kaminski40:16

        [laughs]

    25. TFTim Ferriss40:16

        And everybody's just doing their thing.

    26. JKJake Kaminski40:18

        Yeah.

    27. TFTim Ferriss40:18

        Shooting.

    28. JKJake Kaminski40:18

        Yeah.

    29. TFTim Ferriss40:18

        And it's, of course, that's not every archery range. [laughs]

    30. JKJake Kaminski40:21

        No.
16. 40:24 – 45:28

    For the sake of form, Coach Lee shakes things up.

    1. TFTim Ferriss40:24

       you see everything.

    2. JKJake Kaminski40:25

       Yes.

    3. TFTim Ferriss40:25

       And those people will be right next to a dyed-in-the-wool hunter who was born and raised in Montana who's getting ready for hunting season, and e- everybody's cool.

    4. JKJake Kaminski40:34

       Yeah. Yeah.

    5. TFTim Ferriss40:35

       So that's part of what I really have enjoyed about it. All right, so, da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da, Austin Powers.

    6. JKJake Kaminski40:42

       [laughs]

    7. TFTim Ferriss40:43

       [laughs] Fade back to KSL. So you get to the training center, and technically you're perfect and he's just like, "Let her rip, son. Just move forth, be bold and prosper," or was there more to it? [laughs]

    8. JKJake Kaminski40:59

       Uh, well, yeah, so perspective is I moved out there, I believe in the end of August of 2016, World Championships, Junior World Championships, the trials-

    9. TFTim Ferriss41:09

       Mm-hmm

    10. JKJake Kaminski41:09

        ... that I met him at. It's the first and only Junior Worlds I'd ever go to. And when we first moved there, we being other people, 'cause I also had another buddy of mine, Dan Schuler, who moved out there with me, n- my number one competitor head-to-head since, like, 14 years old, and we just kind of pushed each other and kept competing and moving up the ladder as we got older and older. And so we both moved out to there at the training center at the same time, and Coach Lee said, "W- I won't change your form at all. Don't worry. You know, train and compete through the World Championships, and then we'll work on your form." Because part of the reason of going to the training center was to learn from Coach Lee, to really learn how to be a real archer.

    11. TFTim Ferriss41:48

        Mm-hmm.

    12. JKJake Kaminski41:48

        Because up until that point, my shot cycle, which is a thing that you do for archery, it's the same method over and over again. It's like a mantra-

    13. TFTim Ferriss41:57

        Mm-hmm

    14. JKJake Kaminski41:57

        ... but physically.

    15. TFTim Ferriss41:58

        It's like a physical recipe-

    16. JKJake Kaminski41:59

        Yes

    17. TFTim Ferriss41:59

        ... right? In a sense.

    18. JKJake Kaminski42:00

        Exactly.

    19. TFTim Ferriss42:00

        Just like someone who's, let's just say an Olympic diver, right?

    20. JKJake Kaminski42:03

        Yeah.

    21. TFTim Ferriss42:03

        They're gonna have their routine, never deviates.

    22. JKJake Kaminski42:05

        Yep.

    23. TFTim Ferriss42:06

        They're probably toweling off in the same way.

    24. JKJake Kaminski42:07

        Probably.

    25. TFTim Ferriss42:07

        They're putting things in the same place.

    26. JKJake Kaminski42:09

        They probably fold it the same and put it in the same place on the railing.

    27. TFTim Ferriss42:11

        Exactly.

    28. JKJake Kaminski42:12

        Yeah.

    29. TFTim Ferriss42:12

        Exactly.

    30. JKJake Kaminski42:12

        Yeah. Because all of that genuinely matters at a high level.
17. 45:28 – 52:21

    "I am." — an affirmation for apathy adjustment.

    1. JKJake Kaminski45:28

       of how things were going.

    2. TFTim Ferriss45:29

       How long did it take you to build back up to the same scores or superior scores?

    3. JKJake Kaminski45:35

       I would say probably three to four years.

    4. TFTim Ferriss45:40

       Oh, my God.

    5. JKJake Kaminski45:41

       Yeah.

    6. TFTim Ferriss45:41

       So what are you saying to yourself mentally over that period of time? 'Cause I would imagine that would, could be incredibly demoralizing.

    7. JKJake Kaminski45:49

       Yes.

    8. TFTim Ferriss45:49

       And you would have, I would think, moments of doubt, and I'm curious what kept you going and how you kept yourself going during that period of time. Because, I mean, look, I think I'm a glutton for punishment and have pretty good pain tolerance, uh-

    9. JKJake Kaminski46:07

       [laughs]

    10. TFTim Ferriss46:08

        ... physical and mental [laughs] but I don't know if I could do that.

    11. JKJake Kaminski46:12

        Yeah. So to put it in context, so it took me three to four years to get back to zero-

    12. TFTim Ferriss46:16

        Yeah

    13. JKJake Kaminski46:16

        ... square one, whereas my buddy, Dan Schuler, three months.

    14. TFTim Ferriss46:20

        Oh, wow.

    15. JKJake Kaminski46:21

        Maybe. Maybe less.

    16. TFTim Ferriss46:23

        Huh.

    17. JKJake Kaminski46:23

        Yeah. So I don't know why, but maybe three months or so for him.

    18. TFTim Ferriss46:28

        Yeah.

    19. JKJake Kaminski46:28

        So I see somebody who went out to the training center with me at the same time. I was at the same level, if not potentially a little bit better, at least the way I saw it-

    20. TFTim Ferriss46:36

        Yeah

    21. JKJake Kaminski46:36

        ... than him, and then, you know, extend my timeline times m- 15 times.

    22. TFTim Ferriss46:42

        Yeah.

    23. JKJake Kaminski46:42

        That's how long it took me, much longer to take me to get back to zero. And so, yeah, it was definitely very difficult mentally and emotionally, for sure, because it was more than challenging, to say the least.

    24. TFTim Ferriss46:54

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JKJake Kaminski46:54

        And not only that, adding in physical challenges, too, because prior to that, prior to moving to the training center, I was maybe shooting, uh, maybe 100, 120 arrows at the most I could ever shoot in a single day.

    26. TFTim Ferriss47:05

        Mm.

    27. JKJake Kaminski47:05

        And I would maybe shoot that once a month.

    28. TFTim Ferriss47:08

        Mm.

    29. JKJake Kaminski47:08

        I would shoot often, don't get me wrong, but maybe it would be 50 to 60 arrows a session at the most.

    30. TFTim Ferriss47:12

        Yep.
18. 52:21 – 1:02:44

    London, 2012 Olympics: when it all starts coming together.

    1. JKJake Kaminski52:21

       Yeah.

    2. TFTim Ferriss52:21

       All right. So you're rebuilding, rebuilding, three to four years. Good God, I mean, it's an entire college experience, basically.

    3. JKJake Kaminski52:29

       Yeah.

    4. TFTim Ferriss52:29

       Talk about brutal. But you've made all of these decisions. You've had all this training. You've got Coach Lee's input. You have the positive affirmations. You've developed, maybe fine-tuned your shot sequence, right?

    5. JKJake Kaminski52:44

       Mm-hmm.

    6. TFTim Ferriss52:45

       You're no longer just-

    7. JKJake Kaminski52:46

       Yeah

    8. TFTim Ferriss52:46

       ... staring at the middle of the target-

    9. JKJake Kaminski52:47

       Yeah

    10. TFTim Ferriss52:47

        ... and waiting until the clicker-

    11. JKJake Kaminski52:49

        No

    12. TFTim Ferriss52:49

        ... clicks. When does it all come together?

    13. JKJake Kaminski52:52

        Ultimately, it really came together in 2012 at the Olympic Games in London. So put it in perspective, as we talked about Korea already, Korea's a powerhouse now. What the US was in the '80s, Korea is today.

    14. TFTim Ferriss53:05

        Yeah.

    15. JKJake Kaminski53:06

        Just dominant for decades at this point.

    16. TFTim Ferriss53:08

        Yeah, so j- just to put that in perspective, like if we take, could be the, the women's team or the men's team.

    17. JKJake Kaminski53:13

        Mm-hmm.

    18. TFTim Ferriss53:14

        Like, how dominant? If you look at their medal record over time, what does it look like?

    19. JKJake Kaminski53:20

        With the exception of the Korean men, the Korean women haven't lost a gold medal, individual or team round, in I think, like, 28 years or something crazy.

    20. TFTim Ferriss53:32

        [laughs] Yeah.

    21. JKJake Kaminski53:32

        It's... I, I don't know exactly. It's an absurd statistic.

    22. TFTim Ferriss53:35

        It, it, it is as impeccable a record as a country can possibly have.

    23. JKJake Kaminski53:39

        Correct. The only reason that I say with the Korean men as an exception is because they didn't have an individual male Olympic gold medal for quite some time.

    24. TFTim Ferriss53:47

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JKJake Kaminski53:47

        They just recently got one, finally.

    26. TFTim Ferriss53:49

        Why is that?

    27. JKJake Kaminski53:50

        I don't know. Maybe the pressure.

    28. TFTim Ferriss53:52

        Yeah.

    29. JKJake Kaminski53:52

        I don't know. There's a lot riding on it.

    30. TFTim Ferriss53:54

        Yeah.
19. 1:02:44 – 1:10:01

    How does teamwork play out in archery?

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:02:44

       Yeah, yeah.

    2. JKJake Kaminski1:02:44

       And so it was, you know, just this level of intimacy per se as a team-

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:02:48

       Yeah

    4. JKJake Kaminski1:02:48

       ... that no one else had in the world because they all trained as individuals, not as a team.

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:02:53

       So couple of questions then because I guess to even me listening, I'm like, "Well, it's still kind of an individual thing." I used to wrestle-

    6. JKJake Kaminski1:03:01

       Mm

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:03:01

       ... way back in the day.

    8. JKJake Kaminski1:03:02

       Sure.

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:03:02

       Right? And it's like, okay, yeah, you're a team and you wanna be supportive. The backup bow, using someone else's primary as your backup is super interesting. This is the first time I'm hearing of it.

    10. JKJake Kaminski1:03:11

        Mm-hmm.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:03:12

        Are there any other strategies where, let's just say, I'm making this up, but okay, it's like the wind is gusting and the first person up is gonna have to deal with the brunt of it you think, so you pick the person who seems to be best in high winds.

    12. JKJake Kaminski1:03:25

        Mm-hmm.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:03:25

        I'm making that up. I have no idea. But is there any other strategy that you can build around the team?

    14. JKJake Kaminski1:03:33

        Yes. So for us, and the wind actually was part of it, we'll get to that in a second.

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:03:38

        Yeah.

    16. JKJake Kaminski1:03:38

        But if you approach team rounds as an individual, you're working on your own shot, and that's it.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:03:42

        Yep.

    18. JKJake Kaminski1:03:42

        So you, you either shoot a 10 or you don't and your teammate-

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:03:45

        Mm-hmm

    20. JKJake Kaminski1:03:45

        ... who's also your opponent in individuals-

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:03:48

        Yep

    22. JKJake Kaminski1:03:48

        ... either shoots a 10 or he doesn't.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:03:49

        Mm.

    24. JKJake Kaminski1:03:49

        And that's just how it normally works. But what we did was we worked with each other to understand a little bit more about each other's shot cycle, each other's mental approach, what makes someone better than doesn't. Like, do you want to hear your name when you're at full draw? Like, "Come on, Tim, shoot a 10."

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:04:07

        Yeah.

    26. JKJake Kaminski1:04:07

        Or do you want just, "All right. Strong shot."

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:04:09

        Yeah.

    28. JKJake Kaminski1:04:09

        Something that's general, but not specific to you.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:04:12

        Mm-hmm.

    30. JKJake Kaminski1:04:12

        And so there's little things that you learn, but then also there's a supreme trust in each other. And so in, in team rounds, you have to communicate with each other how the shot went, and then ultimately where did the arrow go compared to how the shot went, and then the next shooter makes adjustments based on that because the wind is always changing.
20. 1:10:01 – 1:13:50

    My own experience with Coach Lee.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:10:01

       That's an incredible story. That's crazy. I've never heard a bunch of these. This is wild-

    2. JKJake Kaminski1:10:04

       Yeah

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:10:04

       ... like, in all the time we've spent together.

    4. JKJake Kaminski1:10:06

       [laughs]

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:10:06

       It's nuts. [laughs] All right. So let's... Well, actually, you know what? Let me, uh, just for comedic relief, you mentioned the Korean media interviews and them looking shocked talking to Coach Lee. So I'll just share a sidebar on Coach Lee. [laughs]

    6. JKJake Kaminski1:10:23

       [laughs]

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:10:23

       So I've had a little bit, a little bit of interaction. So flew to San Diego because we did a little bit of training together, and I wanted to meet this famous Coach Lee. Why not?

    8. JKJake Kaminski1:10:32

       Yeah. So I made the introduction and said, "Hey, Coach Lee."

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:10:35

       Yeah. [laughs]

    10. JKJake Kaminski1:10:35

        "Tim would like to work with you."

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:10:36

        Yeah. And so [laughs] I land in San Diego, and a few things that are, I think, fun to share. So the first is we meet at this outdoor range, and I'm gonna be shooting mostly at 20 yards to 60 feet, let's just call it, roughly. And we hang out for 45 minutes. I'm taking copious notes. He's giving me some pointers. And then we stop, and he's like, "Okay. I think, uh, you have, uh, plenty to work with, and I, I don't think you need my help anymore." And I was like-

    12. JKJake Kaminski1:11:07

        [laughs]

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:11:08

        ... uh, 'cause I had flown down planning to be there [laughs] for a week or something. Five days, something along those lines. And we're-

    14. JKJake Kaminski1:11:13

        Not just to be there for five days, but to-

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:11:15

        To be there explicitly to train with him.

    16. JKJake Kaminski1:11:17

        Yeah.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:11:17

        And so [laughs] at some point, I'm like, got a bit crestfallen. I'm like, "Oh, man," you know? Letting my head hang like Eeyore. I'm like, "Well, fuck. I do feel like I need more help." [laughs]

    18. JKJake Kaminski1:11:32

        [laughs]

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:11:33

        And somehow we get talking about firearms and guns, and he is very interested in marksmanship and all things firearms.

    20. JKJake Kaminski1:11:42

        Yeah.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:11:42

        And so he gets more excited, and we're chatting, we're talking about this, that, and the other thing, and then he asks me, "So what brings you to San Diego?" [laughs] And I was like, "Well, maybe this sounds strange, but I flew here to train with you." [laughs]

    22. JKJake Kaminski1:11:56

        [laughs]

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:11:56

        And he's like, "Oh, okay. All right. Tonight's Korean barbecue." [laughs]

    24. JKJake Kaminski1:12:01

        [laughs]

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:12:01

        And so we go out to dinner and end up having a, an amazing time training with him, and he's really one of a kind.

    26. JKJake Kaminski1:12:08

        Yeah.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:12:09

        And also, the reason I was mentioning the shocked look on the faces of the Korean media is you do not worry about Coach Lee speaking his mind. [laughs]

    28. JKJake Kaminski1:12:19

        Oh, no.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:12:20

        He-

    30. JKJake Kaminski1:12:20

        So direct.
21. 1:13:50 – 1:21:57

    The trials of training and traveling.

    1. JKJake Kaminski1:13:50

       [laughs]

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:13:51

       Let's talk about your coaching and what we ended up doing.

    3. JKJake Kaminski1:13:56

       Yeah.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:13:56

       And all the experiments along the way, because you mentioned, for instance, you know, Coach Lee's feeling the legs, the leg hair and the movement, and you're providing feedback. You're getting familiar with one another's shot cycles. The little things matter. It is hard for me to explain verbally just how many tiny, tiny, tiny details make a huge difference-

    5. JKJake Kaminski1:14:23

       Sure

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:14:23

       ... with archery.

    7. JKJake Kaminski1:14:24

       Yeah.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:14:24

       And just the way you hook your fingers on the string, like the exact placement, how far it is from the fold of one joint, the amount of curl of the fingers, how much you're using, in this case, index, middle, and ring finger, the degree to which you can see or not see as a coach-

    9. JKJake Kaminski1:14:45

       Mm-hmm

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:14:45

        ... my nail on my ring finger-

    11. JKJake Kaminski1:14:49

        Yep

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:14:49

        ... and the difference that makes.

    13. JKJake Kaminski1:14:50

        Yep.

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:14:51

        The angle of the back of the hand and the difference that makes.

    15. JKJake Kaminski1:14:55

        Mm-hmm.

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:14:56

        The level of detail is really unbelievable when you want to start training and performing with precision.

    17. JKJake Kaminski1:15:03

        Absolutely.

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:15:04

        Okay, so I find you, we meet up, and then ultimately, about six months out from Lancaster, decide to take it seriously. Now, there are a few constraints, right? One is you live in Florida.

    19. JKJake Kaminski1:15:17

        Mm-hmm.

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:15:17

        I do not live in Florida.

    21. JKJake Kaminski1:15:18

        Nope.

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:15:19

        Right? So we have limited in-person training-

    23. JKJake Kaminski1:15:22

        Mm

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:15:22

        ... although I think we did a good job with that. What would you say, maybe on average, was it like a few days a month or like a week every six weeks, something like that?

    25. JKJake Kaminski1:15:32

        Probably somewhere in that timeframe. I think I was maybe there for three to four days once every six weeks.

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:15:38

        And we're doing a lot of virtual training.

    27. JKJake Kaminski1:15:40

        Mm-hmm.

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:15:41

        I travel a lot.

    29. JKJake Kaminski1:15:42

        Yeah.

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:15:42

        So if there are awards for most varied training environments, I think I would win that one hands down. [laughs]
22. 1:21:57 – 1:25:43

    Blank bale practice.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:21:57

       Um, and there were many aspects to that, and then we can talk about some of the technical stuff, but just from the physical workaround perspective, when I started practicing, there were a few things that I would do, and all of this we talked about. I was building off of your advice. So rather than doing one session, break it into two sessions.

    2. JKJake Kaminski1:22:17

       Mm-hmm.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:22:17

       Right? And also start and end your sessions with blank bale practice.

    4. JKJake Kaminski1:22:23

       Yeah.

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:22:23

       All right, do you want to explain-

    6. JKJake Kaminski1:22:24

       Sure

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:22:25

       ... what blank bale is?

    8. JKJake Kaminski1:22:26

       Yeah.

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:22:26

       Because this avoids the target panic that you mentioned earlier.

    10. JKJake Kaminski1:22:30

        Correct. Yep.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:22:30

        And it, I think is an incredible tool.

    12. JKJake Kaminski1:22:34

        Sure.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:22:34

        That I found in- very, very helpful. What is blank bale practice?

    14. JKJake Kaminski1:22:37

        So blank bale is, so the bale, the target bale, is blank. There's no target face on it, nothing to aim at.

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:22:44

        Mm-hmm.

    16. JKJake Kaminski1:22:44

        Not even a spot, a shadow, a hole, or whatever. You can do small amounts of aiming per se, but it is not for the sake of precision.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:22:54

        Mm-hmm.

    18. JKJake Kaminski1:22:54

        It's not trying to hit the 10 ring or anything like that. What it does is it removes the aiming requirement or the aiming distraction from-

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:23:02

        Mm-hmm

    20. JKJake Kaminski1:23:02

        ... the process.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:23:03

        And when you were at the high level using blank bale practice, how far away from the target are you standing?

    22. JKJake Kaminski1:23:11

        Generally speaking, for blank bale, I would be eight feet-

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:23:16

        Yeah

    24. JKJake Kaminski1:23:16

        ... or so from the target, so you're never gonna miss, and so you're just simply going through repetition. It's like a palate cleanser almost.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:23:23

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JKJake Kaminski1:23:23

        So you go through your motions, you go through your shot process, but you're not aiming at anything, so you can confidently move through the movements without being careful or overanalytical or get yourself in a bind that can happen when you're aiming at a target.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:23:36

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JKJake Kaminski1:23:36

        So it allows you to ingrain your technique to a level that really trains the subconscious brain to try to take over when you're in pressure situations.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:23:46

        Mm-hmm.

    30. JKJake Kaminski1:23:46

        And it also allows you to put in a lot more repetition without so much time spent walking the distance to go down to the target. So for me-
23. 1:25:43 – 1:27:40

    Layering, biomechanics, and other early points of focus.

    1. JKJake Kaminski1:25:43

       For sure.

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:25:43

       Right? You're not gonna be able to divide your attention- And maintain any type of, of performance-

    3. JKJake Kaminski1:25:52

       Mm-hmm

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:25:52

       ... in the beginning. So a lot of what I found so valuable with your coaching was the layering.

    5. JKJake Kaminski1:25:57

       Sure.

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:25:57

       Right? When do you choose to introduce certain things?

    7. JKJake Kaminski1:26:00

       Sure.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:26:01

       And I also really liked the focus on biomechanics. So the blank bale you could think of in a way as if, let's just say you're... I don't even know if they do this, but I'm making it up. Let's just say you're a Major League pitcher, and it's like, all right, you're trying to focus on some aspect of your throw without the distraction of trying to put it right into the sweet spot of a catcher's mitt. Then let's just say you had a very, very large net hanging, it's like 20 feet just hanging down, and you were just throwing the ball into this net-

    9. JKJake Kaminski1:26:34

       Mm

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:26:35

        ... right? And working on the biomechanics.

    11. JKJake Kaminski1:26:37

        It would be similar to, like, dry fire training with a pistol.

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:26:40

        Yeah.

    13. JKJake Kaminski1:26:40

        Or something like that.

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:26:40

        Yeah, exactly.

    15. JKJake Kaminski1:26:41

        Yeah.

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:26:41

        Very similar.

    17. JKJake Kaminski1:26:42

        Yeah.

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:26:42

        Yeah, similar to dry firing, which you should never do with a bow. We talk about that-

    19. JKJake Kaminski1:26:45

        Correct

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:26:45

        ... in our video. [laughs]

    21. JKJake Kaminski1:26:48

        [laughs]

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:26:48

        Unless you want your bow to explode-

    23. JKJake Kaminski1:26:50

        Do not do that

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:26:51

        ... literally.

    25. JKJake Kaminski1:26:51

        Yeah.

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:26:51

        Don't do that. And I'm trying to think in the early stages what... Because it was a detective process, right?

    27. JKJake Kaminski1:27:00

        Mm-hmm.

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:27:00

        And, you know, my mind is a little unusual at times, and I process things a little differently. So do you recall, like, what some of the early most important things were that we focused on in training?

    29. JKJake Kaminski1:27:12

        A lot of them were conceptual things.

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:27:14

        Yeah.
24. 1:27:40 – 1:31:19

    The underrated importance of follow through.

    1. JKJake Kaminski1:27:40

       exactly. So not how to put it in the middle, how to shoot a good shot, right?

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:27:43

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JKJake Kaminski1:27:43

       And so there are some really key factors that are super important to actually shooting a good shot.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:27:50

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JKJake Kaminski1:27:50

       One of those is follow through.

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:27:52

       Mm.

    7. JKJake Kaminski1:27:52

       It's a very simple thing to explain. If you think of somebody, say, throwing a ball or kicking a ball, the moment of contact of the foot hitting the ball when you kick the ball is when you let go of the string for shooting archery, or when you let go of the baseball when you're throwing it, that's the moment you let go of the string in shooting archery. And so follow through is what happens after that motion. No one ever in any other sport, including baseball and soccer, stop their motion of their foot or their arm the moment they let go of the object or make contact with it.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:28:24

       Yeah.

    9. JKJake Kaminski1:28:24

       Just doesn't happen. Same thing with golf, right?

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:28:26

        Mm-hmm.

    11. JKJake Kaminski1:28:27

        So stuff happens afterwards. That's a follow through motion. That is a maintaining of your... In, in archery we call it tension and direction. You maintain that through follow through.

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:28:37

        Mm-hmm.

    13. JKJake Kaminski1:28:37

        So tension and direction being you pull back the bow, it's wanting to collapse you.

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:28:41

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JKJake Kaminski1:28:41

        So you have to build tension against the bow, the system, and whatever direction that is going, back with the, the string hand and forward with the bow hand, that tension and direction has to maintain exactly how it is when you're at full draw through the release until the follow through finishes.

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:28:59

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JKJake Kaminski1:28:59

        So that would be the principle of, like, tension and direction and just follow through in general. It's a very simple concept to imagine, but it's quite difficult to kind of implement. So we worked a lot on the technical aspects of how to apply that physically-

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:29:15

        Mm-hmm

    19. JKJake Kaminski1:29:15

        ... throughout the months or years. We've been working together for a couple years now, but-

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:29:19

        Mm-hmm

    21. JKJake Kaminski1:29:20

        ... really, you know, that, that last six months leading up to Lancaster, trying to hone that in to be fluid. One motion, not fake.

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:29:27

        Mm-hmm.

    23. JKJake Kaminski1:29:27

        Not two points. So not letting go of the string, losing all that tension of the string hand, and then faking a follow through motion.

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:29:34

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JKJake Kaminski1:29:34

        So it's like, for those that are watching, the, the motion would look something similar as the hand touching the face at anchor, the fingers opening, the arm not moving, and then moving back in a second motion.

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:29:45

        Yeah.

    27. JKJake Kaminski1:29:45

        So a, a good follow through would be the same fluid backward motion of the elbow the same exact time that the fingers are pushed out of the way of the string.

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:29:53

        Mm-hmm.

    29. JKJake Kaminski1:29:53

        And then that tension just continues until you run out of range of motion with the shoulder.

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:29:58

        Yeah, I mean, imagine for a visual for folks, if you had like a TheraBand or a giant rubber band, and you got into an archery position and you're holding that rubber band at max tension the way that it would simulate holding the string of a bow, and then you closed your eyes and somebody walked up and just cut the rubber band.
25. 1:31:19 – 1:32:08

    Coach Lee's take on follow through vs. release.

    1. JKJake Kaminski1:31:19

       So one of the things that I talked to Coach Lee about somewhat recently when I had dinner with him about a year and a half ago or so was, "So anything new to share?" And, well, he chuckled first, and then his response was, "You're not going to like this, or others won't like this, actually." And he said Release is not a step anymore. We do not release the string. And I said, "Tell me more." He said, "Well, if you, if you follow through and your main primary focus when you are at full draw before you let go of the string is to follow through correctly, the release will take care of itself."

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:31:51

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JKJake Kaminski1:31:51

       If you maintain and execute a good proper follow through, your release is good.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:31:55

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JKJake Kaminski1:31:55

       But if you're focused on the release, you cannot then switch your brain fast enough to the follow through motion, because the follow through is, it's frankly a reaction, not an action. So it tells you everything about the tension that you've built up in the system when you're at

26. 1:32:08 – 1:33:31

    Gauging tension and intention as an instructor.

    1. JKJake Kaminski1:32:08

       full draw.

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:32:08

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JKJake Kaminski1:32:08

       So it's my job to watch you and see the motion that the elbow moves and the hand moves and the bow hand moves, and all sorts of different spots of the body, even your head movement. The moment the string comes off your fingers, what direction does a particular body part move? And the, the motion of that body part tells me the tension that you have at full draw.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:32:27

       Yeah.

    5. JKJake Kaminski1:32:27

       Because I've shot enough arrows and I've watched enough people with a, enough intention and attention to look at their form, analyze it, and just overall watch-

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:32:37

       Mm-hmm

    7. JKJake Kaminski1:32:37

       ... I can see where the tension is built. And then a lot of the stuff that we did working together was when you're at full draw, I'm behind you, and I'm like, I'm making motions and doing things to feel what you're feeling.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:32:51

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JKJake Kaminski1:32:51

       So I can assume that if the hand's coming out, there's a change of tension going outward of the release hand-

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:32:57

        Mm-hmm

    11. JKJake Kaminski1:32:57

        ... coming away from your face when you let go, instead of maintaining that line along your neck as it comes back off your face.

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:33:03

        Mm-hmm.

    13. JKJake Kaminski1:33:03

        So if I mimic what you're doing, I get a bit of an insight as to what you're feeling, and then I can communicate with you nearly at the same language, hopefully.

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:33:12

        Right.

    15. JKJake Kaminski1:33:12

        Maybe not using the same words, but at least trying to-

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:33:15

        Yeah

    17. JKJake Kaminski1:33:15

        ... meet you where you're at.

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:33:16

        Or tap the muscle I should be feeling-

    19. JKJake Kaminski1:33:18

        Correct

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:33:18

        ... as a primary mover-

    21. JKJake Kaminski1:33:19

        Correct

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:33:19

        ... when I'm supposed to feel it.

    23. JKJake Kaminski1:33:21

        Correct, yes.

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:33:21

        Yeah.

    25. JKJake Kaminski1:33:22

        And I only get that based on looking at what you're doing and just overall trying to really tear down the shot-

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:33:28

        Mm-hmm

    27. JKJake Kaminski1:33:28

        ... and see what's happening on the inside.

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:33:30

        Yeah.

27. 1:33:31 – 1:35:33

    Attention to grouping over hitting the bullseye.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:33:31

       So flashing back then, thinking about, say, the six months leading up to Lancaster, a couple of things. So one is I, for a very long time, people are gonna find this pretty funny, number one, I didn't care about hitting the bullseye. I did care about grouping.

    2. JKJake Kaminski1:33:47

       Mm-hmm.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:33:48

       Right?

    4. JKJake Kaminski1:33:48

       Yep.

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:33:48

       So I wanted arrows to land very close to one another.

    6. JKJake Kaminski1:33:52

       Correct.

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:33:53

       But if they were bottom left, top right, my assumption was, and I'm sure this is based off of conversations we had, if you're shooting consistently, if you're getting good groups consistently, it's not just a one-off kinda lucky bunch of arrows, then moving that on the target face is, I'm not gonna say necessarily simple, but it ended up being pretty straightforward-

    8. JKJake Kaminski1:34:19

       Sure

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:34:20

       ... as we got-

    10. JKJake Kaminski1:34:20

        Yeah

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:34:20

        ... further down.

    12. JKJake Kaminski1:34:21

        Yeah.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:34:21

        But doing the blank bale, right, it's ... I mean, it g- got to the point with the blank bale where, where it's like, granted, it's like, for me, 10 feet away, 12 feet away, whatever, that these arrows are just getting clumped, like right on top of one another.

    14. JKJake Kaminski1:34:34

        Mm-hmm.

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:34:34

        Even if I shot, I know this is maybe not your favorite thing, but I did this too, like sometimes releasing with my eyes closed.

    16. JKJake Kaminski1:34:40

        Sure.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:34:41

        And then later, how long before Lancaster did I start aiming with the crest of the arrow tip?

    18. JKJake Kaminski1:34:48

        About two weeks. [laughs]

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:34:49

        [laughs]

    20. JKJake Kaminski1:34:50

        So, so what Tim was doing was-

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:34:52

        [laughs]

    22. JKJake Kaminski1:34:52

        ... having blind faith that-

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:34:54

        Yeah

    24. JKJake Kaminski1:34:54

        ... the arrow would land in the middle by using instinctive aiming, per se.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:34:59

        Well, I was also doing a few things that you recommended.

    26. JKJake Kaminski1:35:01

        Mm-hmm.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:35:01

        Right? Because in fairness, we tried to have me aim earlier.

    28. JKJake Kaminski1:35:06

        Yeah.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:35:06

        And I had for the first time target panic.

    30. JKJake Kaminski1:35:10

        Mm-hmm.
28. 1:35:33 – 1:38:02

    Making adaptations for physical limitations.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:35:33

       right? So we-

    2. JKJake Kaminski1:35:34

       And we also hadn't adjusted your bow either.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:35:36

       Yeah.

    4. JKJake Kaminski1:35:36

       'Cause we did make compromises within your equipment to help work with the shoulder-

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:35:41

       We, we did-

    6. JKJake Kaminski1:35:41

       ... and other things

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:35:41

       ... a bunch of stuff. We, that we won't necessarily get into 'cause [laughs] it-

    8. JKJake Kaminski1:35:44

       Yeah

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:35:44

       ... gets really technical. But a lot of things that would confuse even certain experienced folks, like the, the upper and lower limbs, right, where you would put, attach the string, switching those-

    10. JKJake Kaminski1:35:56

        Mm-hmm

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:35:56

        ... and making all sorts of tweaks-

    12. JKJake Kaminski1:35:58

        Yeah

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:35:58

        ... to the equipment to compensate or to allow this compromised shoulder to function.

    14. JKJake Kaminski1:36:04

        To work with you.

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:36:05

        Yeah.

    16. JKJake Kaminski1:36:06

        Not against you.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:36:06

        Yeah, exactly. I mean, because for instance, like the more weight, I mean, there's a point of diminishing returns, but since you can't put stabilizers on a barebow-

    18. JKJake Kaminski1:36:15

        Mm-hmm

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:36:16

        ... people add weight. They just have to keep the weight very close to the bow because this ring has to be able to pass over the whole thing for you to use it in competition. But people add quite a bit of weight.

    20. JKJake Kaminski1:36:26

        Yeah.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:36:26

        And it helps to stabilize things.

    22. JKJake Kaminski1:36:29

        Yes.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:36:30

        But I could not... Tried.

    24. JKJake Kaminski1:36:33

        Yeah.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:36:33

        But I couldn't do it.

    26. JKJake Kaminski1:36:33

        Yeah.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:36:33

        My, my shoulder would develop all sorts of pain and tendon issues, and just couldn't do it.

    28. JKJake Kaminski1:36:39

        And ultimately, you could only shoot 60 arrows in a session.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:36:43

        Yeah, exact-

    30. JKJake Kaminski1:36:43

        You couldn't put in the amount of arrows that was actually required to be proficient.
29. 1:38:02 – 1:40:56

    The ups and downs of our patented "Jesus take the wheel" instinctive approach.

    1. JKJake Kaminski1:38:02

       Yep. Yep.

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:38:03

       Then, [laughs] so in terms of my instinctive approach, where we found a, found a compromise was, all right, you're not gonna try to put the arrow tip or the crest of the arrow on the bullseye. Again, for simplicity, just saying that. However, there are a few things you are gonna do, right? You're gonna burn a hole into the very center of the target with your eyes.

    3. JKJake Kaminski1:38:26

       Mm-hmm.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:38:26

       And you're going to... People think of shooting an arrow, if they haven't had a lot of experience, as, like, pulling back and letting go, but you have this equal and opposite action-

    5. JKJake Kaminski1:38:37

       Mm-hmm

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:38:37

       ... in pushing forward with the bow hand.

    7. JKJake Kaminski1:38:39

       Correct, yeah.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:38:39

       And there's a lot of technical detail that goes into how you do that, but basically pushing a portion of your palm, kind of the right next to your lifeline, in the kind of meaty pad of the thumb, let's just say, roughly, uh-

    9. JKJake Kaminski1:38:56

       Kind of where your wrist meets your palm.

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:38:58

        Yeah, exactly. And pushing that also, so you're burning a hole into the target in a very dead center.

    11. JKJake Kaminski1:39:04

        Mm-hmm.

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:39:04

        And you're pushing that point on your palm also towards the exact center of the target.

    13. JKJake Kaminski1:39:11

        Despite whatever you're seeing-

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:39:13

        Right

    15. JKJake Kaminski1:39:13

        ... as far as your sight picture, per se.

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:39:15

        And so wh- and s- your sight picture, right. So don't worry about where the tip of the arrow is.

    17. JKJake Kaminski1:39:18

        Mm-hmm.

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:39:19

        [laughs] And maybe I said it, maybe you said it, I can't remember, we ended up calling this the Jesus takes the wheel approach. [laughs] You know, Jesus take the wheel.

    19. JKJake Kaminski1:39:26

        [laughs]

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:39:26

        And it was shocking-

    21. JKJake Kaminski1:39:29

        Yeah

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:39:29

        ... to see what happened, because more often than not, I would shoot better-

    23. JKJake Kaminski1:39:35

        Mm-hmm

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:39:35

        ... with that type of approach.

    25. JKJake Kaminski1:39:37

        Yeah. And it worked surprisingly well.

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:39:39

        It wo- it worked surprisingly well. I mean-

    27. JKJake Kaminski1:39:42

        Until... [laughs]

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:39:43

        Yeah, yeah. It s- it worked surprisingly well until.

    29. JKJake Kaminski1:39:46

        Yeah.

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:39:46

        I guess we just decided, I mean, there were just-
30. 1:40:56 – 1:45:31

    Warm-up tournaments, barebowing, black bales, and string walking.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:40:56

       Lancaster was... I mean, I don't recommend this, guys. So [laughs] like, if you can do a ton of [laughs] warm-up tournaments-

    2. JKJake Kaminski1:41:02

       Mm-hmm

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:41:02

       ... before the big tournament, I highly recommend doing that. Just didn't really work out that way, but we went to a number of league nights and s- two small events at the Easton Range in Salt Lake City, which is-

    4. JKJake Kaminski1:41:15

       Yeah

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:41:15

       ... awesome.

    6. JKJake Kaminski1:41:16

       I think you shot, like, Utah State shoots or something like that.

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:41:20

       Yeah, I went in and basically-

    8. JKJake Kaminski1:41:22

       Yeah, as a guest or whatever

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:41:22

       ... just, like, audited the thing.

    10. JKJake Kaminski1:41:23

        Yeah.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:41:23

        Right?

    12. JKJake Kaminski1:41:24

        Yeah.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:41:24

        And to try to get competition condition experience.

    14. JKJake Kaminski1:41:28

        Mm-hmm.

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:41:28

        And there are a few things that we noticed. One is, in that environment, the bale, so the canvas upon which you put the target, right?

    16. JKJake Kaminski1:41:38

        Mm-hmm.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:41:38

        The backstop, is black.

    18. JKJake Kaminski1:41:41

        Yep.

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:41:41

        Right? And all of a sudden my eyes started doing funny things, and I couldn't see the arrow tip. Now, the reason that's relevant is, and I wasn't trying to place the tip of the arrow in the center of the target, but I would try to see it so that I could tell if I was roughly in the center of the target. Right? So I would pay attention to the left, right.

    20. JKJake Kaminski1:42:01

        And just really quick, for those that don't know, with barebow, you use the tip of your arrow as your aiming reference.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:42:07

        Yep.

    22. JKJake Kaminski1:42:07

        Part of the game is there is no sight.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:42:09

        Yep.

    24. JKJake Kaminski1:42:09

        So you're using the tip of the arrow as your aiming reference, and then you're placing that in a particular place every single time to shoot a group-

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:42:16

        Yep

    26. JKJake Kaminski1:42:16

        ... in the middle.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:42:17

        Exactly. So all of a sudden, and thank God we did these test events, which I always have done in any other sport also, right? You, you just do not know what's gonna happen and how you're gonna respond in competition conditions until you do it.

    28. JKJake Kaminski1:42:30

        Yep.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:42:31

        So there are a few things I think we did right. There are a lot of things we did right, but doing those warm-up tournaments, thank God those were there.

    30. JKJake Kaminski1:42:39

        Yeah.
31. 1:45:31 – 1:49:54

    Recovering from the disaster that made me rethink Lancaster.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:45:31

       So keeping all this in mind, when I got into those lighting conditions, with everything at play in competition [laughs] it was a disaster. I mean, it was all over the place.

    2. JKJake Kaminski1:45:44

       Yeah.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:45:44

       And-

    4. JKJake Kaminski1:45:44

       It was the worst score you had shot by a long shot.

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:45:47

       Yeah, and I was like, "Oh, fuck me." I'm like-

    6. JKJake Kaminski1:45:50

       This is three weeks-

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:45:51

       I'm-

    8. JKJake Kaminski1:45:51

       ... two weeks before Lancaster

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:45:52

       ... yes, maybe three weeks out.

    10. JKJake Kaminski1:45:53

        Yeah. Yeah.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:45:54

        And I was like, "Well, keep this up, I'm definitely not going to Lancaster."

    12. JKJake Kaminski1:45:58

        [laughs]

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:45:58

        'Cause I will just, it'll just be a complete clown car disaster.

    14. JKJake Kaminski1:46:02

        Heather and I were looking at, my wife and I, we were looking at each other after that day and we were like, "I really hope Tim still wants to go to Lancaster." [laughs]

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:46:10

        [laughs] Yeah. That was the most frustrated I, I think you guys have ever seen me, was probably after that one.

    16. JKJake Kaminski1:46:14

        There was a lot of statements you were making in regards to never being on such an emotional roller coaster from day to day.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:46:22

        Yeah. Yeah.

    18. JKJake Kaminski1:46:22

        Because that timeframe was really challenging for you.

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:46:25

        Oh, it was wild-

    20. JKJake Kaminski1:46:25

        Yeah

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:46:25

        ... because I would go from one setting, and we ended up shooting at a CrossFit gym from 7:30 to, like, 10:30 at night. That was the only time and the only location that we could find, and thank you to those guys. What a lifesaver. Chris Spieler, I think it was.

    22. JKJake Kaminski1:46:43

        I believe so.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:46:44

        Park City Fit.

    24. JKJake Kaminski1:46:45

        Yeah.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:46:46

        Amazing gym, the cleanest gym I've ever seen. It was-

    26. JKJake Kaminski1:46:48

        Yeah, you could eat off that floor

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:46:48

        ... you could eat off the floor.

    28. JKJake Kaminski1:46:49

        Yeah.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:46:49

        It was incredible. So thank you to those guys. So we were training late at night, very different lighting conditions, but I would have a day where I'm like, "Man-

    30. JKJake Kaminski1:46:58

        I can't miss
32. 1:49:54 – 1:55:33

    Rebalancing gear: arrows and arrow rests.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:49:54

       because we also discovered, for instance, that when we upgraded from a very, very narrow arrow, so the shaft of the arrow, and therefore the head of the arrow as well in this particular case, 'cause there are no broadheads or anything, going from a very, very thin arrow to a v- the maximum allowable javelin-sized arrow.

    2. JKJake Kaminski1:50:14

       Yeah.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:50:15

       And, uh, what's the reason for that?

    4. JKJake Kaminski1:50:17

       So basically in archery, when you touch the higher scoring ring where your arrow lands, you get the higher value. So all you have to do is touch that ring. You don't have to break the line. You don't even have to be inside out. You just Just have to touch it, and that's enough to get you the higher score. And statistically speaking, somebody did a study and analysis of scores, uh, across the board at indoor archery tournaments, and if you're in that range of score where you were actually targeting to be to be at Lancaster, there's a very statistically significant impact on your score going up by a tremendous amount. I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of eight-plus points-

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:50:55

       Hmm

    6. JKJake Kaminski1:50:55

       ... every 30 shots, which is a massive jump.

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:50:59

       That's a lot.

    8. JKJake Kaminski1:50:59

       A massive jump at that 280, 270 range, somewhere in there.

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:51:04

       Hmm.

    10. JKJake Kaminski1:51:04

        The bigger arrows make, statistically speaking, a huge difference.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:51:07

        Yeah.

    12. JKJake Kaminski1:51:07

        At the highest level, the guys that win the tournaments when they're shooting, say, one or two points down from perfect, they do not make any difference at all.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:51:17

        Yeah.

    14. JKJake Kaminski1:51:18

        Like statistically, it's a zero sum g- there's no, no additional benefit to shooting-

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:51:22

        Yeah

    16. JKJake Kaminski1:51:22

        ... the fat arrows.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:51:23

        But for me.

    18. JKJake Kaminski1:51:23

        But for you, statistically-

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:51:25

        S-

    20. JKJake Kaminski1:51:25

        ... it made sense.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:51:26

        Yeah, it made a lot of sense. What that meant though is we had to adjust a bunch of the gear.

    22. JKJake Kaminski1:51:30

        Yeah.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:51:31

        And when you put the arrow on your bow, all right, I'll just keep it simple, you have an arrow rest.

    24. JKJake Kaminski1:51:38

        Mm-hmm.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:51:39

        And we had an arrow rest that had been working great, fantastic.

    26. JKJake Kaminski1:51:43

        Absolutely.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:51:43

        It had been working so well with the little tiny darts that I would- had been using. Once we put the much heavier arrows on, I guess, what is the model of those arrows?

    28. JKJake Kaminski1:51:56

        So the arrows you were using was the Easton RX 7.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:51:58

        RX 7.

    30. JKJake Kaminski1:51:59

        And before that you were using a Easton Advanced, Avance, I don't know how to say it.
33. 1:55:33 – 1:58:52

    The importance of practicing in tournament-like conditions.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:55:33

       Yeah. And then I should highlight that there's so many reasons in any sport to mimic or rehearse competition conditions, but in the case of archery, one is you wanna get used to being crowded, right? If you're training by yourself, that's not the way it works at any of these larger tournaments. Like, you're gonna be on a line and literally could have somebody, I don't know, how far away were folks with me?

    2. JKJake Kaminski1:55:57

       Less than a foot.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:55:58

       Less than a foot-

    4. JKJake Kaminski1:55:59

       Probably

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:55:59

       ... in front of me and behind me.

    6. JKJake Kaminski1:56:00

       Correct.

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:56:01

       And I mean, you just wanna hope if you're right-handed, you don't have a left-handed person right next to you on your right side, 'cause you're gonna basically be eye gazing them the whole time. [laughs] It's really distracting.

    8. JKJake Kaminski1:56:12

       Although I encouraged you during your training at Gotham-

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:56:15

       Tried that

    10. JKJake Kaminski1:56:15

        ... to go find a left-handed guy and stand-

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:56:17

        Yeah

    12. JKJake Kaminski1:56:17

        ... right in front of him.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:56:18

        Yeah, yeah, totally.

    14. JKJake Kaminski1:56:18

        Yeah.

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:56:18

        So I did that.

    16. JKJake Kaminski1:56:19

        Yep.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:56:20

        So I had the practice. [laughs] But that is one reason. Another is to see what happens to your mental state-

    18. JKJake Kaminski1:56:28

        Mm-hmm

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:56:29

        ... if and when, I guess it's not really if, I mean at my level, when you make mistakes.

    20. JKJake Kaminski1:56:33

        At my level too.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:56:34

        Yeah. It's like what-

    22. JKJake Kaminski1:56:35

        Of course

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:56:35

        ... what happens?

    24. JKJake Kaminski1:56:35

        Yeah.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:56:36

        Right? And For those who play poker, like do you go tilt, monkey tilt? Like how bad does it get?

    26. JKJake Kaminski1:56:43

        Mm-hmm.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:56:43

        And can you recover-

    28. JKJake Kaminski1:56:45

        Mm-hmm

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:56:45

        ... if and when that happens? And I was, the wheels came off. [laughs]

    30. JKJake Kaminski1:56:49

        Yeah. Yeah. It did.
34. 1:58:52 – 2:03:10

    Securing convenient fuel.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:58:52

       Yeah. All right. So other things. Mentioned standardizing as much as possible. So one was, and look, guys, I'm not proud of this, but I'll admit it, figuring out expedient fuel-

    2. JKJake Kaminski1:59:04

       Mm-hmm

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:59:04

       ... that you can get or bring with you everywhere.

    4. JKJake Kaminski1:59:07

       Yep.

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:59:08

       Right? Especially with the amount of travel I was doing, that was actually very good practice, and it's like, okay-

    6. JKJake Kaminski1:59:12

       Yep

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:59:12

       ... let me know like how much caffeine I can tolerate.

    8. JKJake Kaminski1:59:15

       Mm-hmm.

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:59:16

       Right? What am I gonna use?

    10. JKJake Kaminski1:59:18

        Mm-hmm.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:59:18

        And does it help at all?

    12. JKJake Kaminski1:59:20

        Yep.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:59:20

        Right?

    14. JKJake Kaminski1:59:21

        Sure.

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:59:21

        Because oodles and oodles of liquid anxiety does not help you shoot better.

    16. JKJake Kaminski1:59:25

        Not at all.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:59:26

        Yeah, which is why also why beta blockers are not allowed in competition, unless you get deliberately fat enough that you have a prescription for them. That's a whole separate story. [laughs] There are actually people who do that, just like the sprinters in the Olympics who, oh my God, happen to all be narcoleptics.

    18. JKJake Kaminski1:59:40

        Oh, no.

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:59:41

        So they can take Modafinil.

    20. JKJake Kaminski1:59:42

        Yeah.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:59:42

        What a coincidence. All right. Putting all that aside, so what does that mean? That means that I wanted to be able to fuel myself from things I could get at any convenience store.

    22. JKJake Kaminski1:59:52

        Mm-hmm.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:59:52

        Almost any gas station.

    24. JKJake Kaminski1:59:54

        Mm-hmm.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:59:54

        So it would be some form of basic protein.

    26. JKJake Kaminski1:59:58

        Mm-hmm.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:59:58

        Don't judge me, but like, you know, maybe it's like Muscle Milk or whatever. And then having almonds. I had tolerated Maui Nui venison sticks-

    28. JKJake Kaminski2:00:08

        Mm-hmm

    29. TFTim Ferriss2:00:08

        ... really well. We knew that I could digest that reasonably quickly, so always traveling with that. Then figured out a couple of other things, so I'll, I'll give a couple of shout-outs, because these products ended up being really, really helpful. So Pique Tea, P-I-Q-U-E, which are basically, if you think about matcha as whole leaf, these are pu-erh, oolong, they're all whole leaf. They're powdered, so you can mix them instantly.

    30. JKJake Kaminski2:00:31

        Even in cold water?
35. 2:03:10 – 2:08:13

    Lancaster preparation logistics (with special thanks to Heather Kaminski and Rick Simpson Oil).

    1. TFTim Ferriss2:03:10

       challenges.

    2. JKJake Kaminski2:03:10

       For sure.

    3. TFTim Ferriss2:03:11

       And that's why with Lancaster, like most high-level competitors, how early, like how far before their first shooting do they arrive at Lancaster?

    4. JKJake Kaminski2:03:22

       Most pro shooters?

    5. TFTim Ferriss2:03:23

       Yeah.

    6. JKJake Kaminski2:03:25

       45 minutes.

    7. TFTim Ferriss2:03:26

       [laughs]

    8. JKJake Kaminski2:03:27

       Half hour, an hour.

    9. TFTim Ferriss2:03:27

       Right, but when, when would-

    10. JKJake Kaminski2:03:29

        Like it, it, it depends

    11. TFTim Ferriss2:03:29

        ... but when would their plane land?

    12. JKJake Kaminski2:03:31

        Oh, sorry. A few days.

    13. TFTim Ferriss2:03:33

        Yeah.

    14. JKJake Kaminski2:03:33

        You know, you know, well, it depends. Depends on the season.

    15. TFTim Ferriss2:03:35

        Yeah.

    16. JKJake Kaminski2:03:35

        Because if the season's really crammed in, you may land the night before the competition starts-

    17. TFTim Ferriss2:03:40

        Yeah

    18. JKJake Kaminski2:03:40

        ... because one just ended somewhere across the world.

    19. TFTim Ferriss2:03:43

        Yep.

    20. JKJake Kaminski2:03:43

        But ideally, you try to get there a couple days early, so that way you shake off the jet lag, you get used to the bed. You just-

    21. TFTim Ferriss2:03:49

        Yeah

    22. JKJake Kaminski2:03:49

        ... get used to where everything's laid out and, you know, you kind of just see how things are going. But if you've been to the event before-

    23. TFTim Ferriss2:03:55

        How early did we get there?

    24. JKJake Kaminski2:03:56

        10 days, 12 days early, I think. Something like that.

    25. TFTim Ferriss2:03:59

        Yeah, yeah, yeah. So again, this is just if it's helpful for folks, I do this whenever I'm competing in anything new, right?

    26. JKJake Kaminski2:04:06

        Mm-hmm.

    27. TFTim Ferriss2:04:06

        So figure out where you are, figure out your food options.

    28. JKJake Kaminski2:04:09

        Yep.

    29. TFTim Ferriss2:04:10

        Figure out your bed. For instance, I slept really poorly-

    30. JKJake Kaminski2:04:13

        Mm-hmm
36. 2:08:13 – 2:11:46

    The glue that holds us together: note-taking and training logs.

    1. TFTim Ferriss2:08:13

       this is as good a point as any to mention the glue that holds this all together, which is note-taking-

    2. JKJake Kaminski2:08:21

       Yes

    3. TFTim Ferriss2:08:22

       ... and training logs.

    4. JKJake Kaminski2:08:23

       Yes. Entirely.

    5. TFTim Ferriss2:08:24

       Right? Because-

    6. JKJake Kaminski2:08:25

       This is such a pivotal thing to consistently performing under pressure.

    7. TFTim Ferriss2:08:30

       Yeah.

    8. JKJake Kaminski2:08:30

       You might get hot once and shoot great and win a tournament, but if you didn't know what you did-

    9. TFTim Ferriss2:08:35

       Yeah

    10. JKJake Kaminski2:08:35

        ... that led up to that, how are you gonna repeat it?

    11. TFTim Ferriss2:08:37

        Yep.

    12. JKJake Kaminski2:08:38

        And so you have to blueprint, as Joel says in his system, the Shot IQ, how do you blueprint an ideal shot or an ideal tournament?

    13. TFTim Ferriss2:08:46

        Mm-hmm.

    14. JKJake Kaminski2:08:47

        And leading up to that, a training session, whatever it may be, what can you do to replicate that every time?

    15. TFTim Ferriss2:08:52

        Yep. So a few things that were surprising to me. For instance- If I felt like I'd just been put through a meat grinder, right, I would maybe, if left to my own devices, look back one training session, maybe two training sessions. But often it's five days ago.

    16. JKJake Kaminski2:09:10

        Yep.

    17. TFTim Ferriss2:09:11

        Five training-

    18. JKJake Kaminski2:09:11

        Yep

    19. TFTim Ferriss2:09:11

        ... sessions ago.

    20. JKJake Kaminski2:09:12

        Yep.

    21. TFTim Ferriss2:09:12

        You have to look back further than I would've expected.

    22. JKJake Kaminski2:09:15

        Yeah.

    23. TFTim Ferriss2:09:15

        That is going to be beyond your memory.

    24. JKJake Kaminski2:09:17

        For sure.

    25. TFTim Ferriss2:09:18

        Right?

    26. JKJake Kaminski2:09:18

        How many arrows did you shoot?

    27. TFTim Ferriss2:09:19

        Yeah.

    28. JKJake Kaminski2:09:19

        What did you do that day?

    29. TFTim Ferriss2:09:21

        Yep.

    30. JKJake Kaminski2:09:21

        Did you strength train as well? How about massage therapy? What did you eat?
37. 2:11:46 – 2:13:43

    Even counterintuitive consistency is key.

    1. JKJake Kaminski2:11:46

       And I think this applies to way more than archery.

    2. TFTim Ferriss2:11:49

       Yeah.

    3. JKJake Kaminski2:11:49

       If you're not really paying attention to what you're doing and maximizing your chances for success, and ultimately maintaining what you're doing and training or leading up to an event, whatever it may be.

    4. TFTim Ferriss2:12:01

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JKJake Kaminski2:12:01

       If you change everything at the event because I'm at the event, I should probably clean up my diet. Why would you do that?

    6. TFTim Ferriss2:12:08

       It's too late.

    7. JKJake Kaminski2:12:09

       It's too late. If you're eating Cheetos at home, as much as you shouldn't be eating Cheetos at home, you should probably just do it at the tournament.

    8. TFTim Ferriss2:12:15

       Yeah.

    9. JKJake Kaminski2:12:15

       If you drink 7UP or you have a beer the night before or whatever it is, you should probably continue to do that.

    10. TFTim Ferriss2:12:20

        Yeah.

    11. JKJake Kaminski2:12:20

        You don't wanna all of a sudden sober up at the event and deal with withdrawal syndromes from not having enough sugar because you used to have, you know, whatever, Cap'n Crunch for breakfast. I don't know.

    12. TFTim Ferriss2:12:29

        Yeah.

    13. JKJake Kaminski2:12:29

        Whatever it may be-

    14. TFTim Ferriss2:12:31

        Yeah

    15. JKJake Kaminski2:12:31

        ... you might wanna just maintain the same thing.

    16. TFTim Ferriss2:12:33

        Yeah.

    17. JKJake Kaminski2:12:33

        And so this applies to so many things, not just archery-

    18. TFTim Ferriss2:12:37

        Yeah

    19. JKJake Kaminski2:12:37

        ... I think.

    20. TFTim Ferriss2:12:37

        Oh, absolutely.

    21. JKJake Kaminski2:12:38

        Yeah.

    22. TFTim Ferriss2:12:38

        And also, if it's helpful to people, when I would take notes, I mean, you can even kind of s- I, I won't show off all this 'cause you, some of these are top secret in this one, but I also basically draw a little square, you've seen these, in the bottom right of each page in this training log, and my training log is actually, like, this big. It's larger paper.

    23. JKJake Kaminski2:12:59

        Yeah. It's, like, bigger than an 8.5 by 11 sheet.

    24. TFTim Ferriss2:13:01

        Yeah. It's a large notebook. And in that bottom right corner, I... So I'm not only taking notes, I'm also reviewing all of those notes-

    25. JKJake Kaminski2:13:12

        Mm-hmm

    26. TFTim Ferriss2:13:12

        ... after the session.

    27. JKJake Kaminski2:13:13

        Mm-hmm.

    28. TFTim Ferriss2:13:13

        And in the bottom right, I am putting my next actions or key takeaways to focus on for the next workout.

    29. JKJake Kaminski2:13:20

        Yeah.

    30. TFTim Ferriss2:13:20

        And so when I land at the gym, or in this case the range, the next day or two days later, I know exactly where I'm picking up.
38. 2:13:43 – 2:22:51

    Our experience at Lancaster.

    1. TFTim Ferriss2:13:43

       Then what happens at Lancaster?

    2. JKJake Kaminski2:13:46

       Well, at Lancaster-

    3. TFTim Ferriss2:13:46

       Well, and, and, like, what, what's the g- what's the goal? Like, what are the expectations, hopes? Like, from your perspective, I'd be curious to hear.

    4. JKJake Kaminski2:13:53

       I would say my number one hope was just that you'd be happy-

    5. TFTim Ferriss2:13:56

       Yeah

    6. JKJake Kaminski2:13:56

       ... with how it went, no matter what.

    7. TFTim Ferriss2:13:58

       Yep.

    8. JKJake Kaminski2:13:58

       Because ultimately, there's no way to know how it's gonna go.

    9. TFTim Ferriss2:14:01

       Yeah.

    10. JKJake Kaminski2:14:01

        Would it be great if you made the cut? Would it be great if you won the event? Sure.

    11. TFTim Ferriss2:14:05

        Yeah.

    12. JKJake Kaminski2:14:05

        That'd be cool.

    13. TFTim Ferriss2:14:05

        Yeah.

    14. JKJake Kaminski2:14:06

        But how is it going to go? No one knows. Competition is very interesting. It really is just unknown until you do it.

    15. TFTim Ferriss2:14:15

        Just a quick side note. [laughs] So I remember, I don't wanna mention his name, but I was training somewhere and I saw my first barebow shooter who was, in my eyes, really good.

    16. JKJake Kaminski2:14:26

        Mm-hmm.

    17. TFTim Ferriss2:14:27

        And in practice, just incredible.

    18. JKJake Kaminski2:14:30

        Mm-hmm.

    19. TFTim Ferriss2:14:30

        And do you remember what you said to me after that? I can tell you.

    20. JKJake Kaminski2:14:33

        Um, go for it. [laughs]

    21. TFTim Ferriss2:14:34

        You're, you're like, "Pra- practice scores don't matter."

    22. JKJake Kaminski2:14:36

        Oh, yeah. [laughs]

    23. TFTim Ferriss2:14:36

        Yeah. [laughs] Now, on some level, yes. I mean, consistent practice scores-

    24. JKJake Kaminski2:14:42

        Sure

    25. TFTim Ferriss2:14:42

        ... are one indicator.

    26. JKJake Kaminski2:14:43

        Yeah.

    27. TFTim Ferriss2:14:43

        But competition is just a different-

    28. JKJake Kaminski2:14:46

        Totally different animal

    29. TFTim Ferriss2:14:46

        ... different animal.

    30. JKJake Kaminski2:14:47

        And so you can expect to falter.
39. 2:22:51 – 2:26:34

    "The goal is to do the least necessary, not the most possible." — Henk Kraaijenhof

    1. TFTim Ferriss2:22:51

       so.

    2. JKJake Kaminski2:22:51

       Yeah.

    3. TFTim Ferriss2:22:51

       So great experience. Thanks so much for the amazing coaching.

    4. JKJake Kaminski2:22:54

       Yeah.

    5. TFTim Ferriss2:22:54

       Heather, thank you for keeping my body in one piece. And I'm just trying to think of, of what else we could mention just in terms of approach or anything else that's worth adding. I think, you know, one approach maybe, and this is particularly given some of my orthopedic issues and just like tendinosis limitations and so on, this isn't totally right, and I'll explain the modification, but this actually comes from a very famous track coach with many, many world records to his athlete's credit, Henk Kraaijenhof or something like that. I believe he's Dutch.

    6. JKJake Kaminski2:23:30

       Yeah.

    7. TFTim Ferriss2:23:30

       I'm sure I'm messing up that, but it's in The 4-Hour Body if people are looking for the actual name. And he said, effectively, the goal is to do the least necessary, not the most possible. And the way that ties into the training is, I found if I really, really overdid it, then I might need four or five days off-

    8. JKJake Kaminski2:23:52

       Yeah

    9. TFTim Ferriss2:23:52

       ... if my shoulder's really inflamed and problematic.

    10. JKJake Kaminski2:23:54

        For sure.

    11. TFTim Ferriss2:23:54

        So it's like, okay, how can we use smaller doses with higher frequency-

    12. JKJake Kaminski2:23:59

        Yeah

    13. TFTim Ferriss2:23:59

        ... to make this work?

    14. JKJake Kaminski2:24:01

        Ultimately, that's super beneficial in archery. So if I were to wave a magic wand and try to make things better the next time, it would be doing archery more often.

    15. TFTim Ferriss2:24:10

        Yep.

    16. JKJake Kaminski2:24:10

        So it's not about how many arrows you do in one session, it's how many sessions in a week can you do.

    17. TFTim Ferriss2:24:16

        Yeah.

    18. JKJake Kaminski2:24:16

        And how many days in between each session are there?

    19. TFTim Ferriss2:24:19

        Mm-hmm.

    20. JKJake Kaminski2:24:19

        Anything more than one is too many-

    21. TFTim Ferriss2:24:21

        Yeah

    22. JKJake Kaminski2:24:21

        ... in my opinion.

    23. TFTim Ferriss2:24:22

        Mm-hmm.

    24. JKJake Kaminski2:24:22

        So if you could standardize your schedule better, better for the sake of archery performance.

    25. TFTim Ferriss2:24:27

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JKJake Kaminski2:24:28

        That, of course, requires sacrifice elsewhere.

    27. TFTim Ferriss2:24:31

        Yeah, yeah.

    28. JKJake Kaminski2:24:31

        Time hanging out.

    29. TFTim Ferriss2:24:33

        Yeah.

    30. JKJake Kaminski2:24:33

        Time working, whatever it may be.
40. 2:26:34 – 2:30:20

    Learning by observation and conversation on the practice range.

    1. JKJake Kaminski2:26:34

       But something that was interesting that you kinda discovered watching people on the practice range the day after-

    2. TFTim Ferriss2:26:40

       Mm-hmm

    3. JKJake Kaminski2:26:40

       ... you competed or whenever that was-

    4. TFTim Ferriss2:26:42

       Mm-hmm

    5. JKJake Kaminski2:26:42

       ... and you learned some things. You were watching a couple of different shooters out there. There was a, I think the number one ranked barebow shooter that won the ranking round that year and set the, the new Lancaster record for the ranking round.

    6. TFTim Ferriss2:26:53

       Mm-hmm.

    7. JKJake Kaminski2:26:53

       You were watching him shoot, and you first pointed him out to me and said, "Hey, keep an eye on him. See if there's anything that he's doing that maybe I should start to work on-

    8. TFTim Ferriss2:27:01

       Mm-hmm

    9. JKJake Kaminski2:27:01

       ... as, you know, just maybe there's something I'm missing."

    10. TFTim Ferriss2:27:04

        Yep.

    11. JKJake Kaminski2:27:04

        And, you know, I, I watched him for two arrows, and I think I just walked right over to him. I said, "Hey, how's it going? What's your name? How long you been shooting?" Oh, I was a successful recurve archer, 'cause his, his form looked recurve-like. There's a very distinct look to that.

    12. TFTim Ferriss2:27:19

        Yeah.

    13. JKJake Kaminski2:27:19

        And he shot as a junior competitively nationally, I believe, for Canada, if I remember correctly.

    14. TFTim Ferriss2:27:26

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JKJake Kaminski2:27:27

        And then he shot all through college, shooting recurve competitively, and then he started shooting compound for a while and kind of set down the bow, came back to it, like, four or five years later and started shooting barebow.

    16. TFTim Ferriss2:27:40

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JKJake Kaminski2:27:40

        And so he already had a decade plus of archery experience doing essentially the same thing, the same kind of form.

    18. TFTim Ferriss2:27:46

        Mm-hmm.

    19. JKJake Kaminski2:27:46

        And then you pointed out some 13, 14-year-old Korean kids or something like that-

    20. TFTim Ferriss2:27:51

        Yeah

    21. JKJake Kaminski2:27:51

        ... Korean American kids that were just pounding.

    22. TFTim Ferriss2:27:54

        Yeah.

    23. JKJake Kaminski2:27:54

        Like, they're, they were just stacking the arrows in at the center.

    24. TFTim Ferriss2:27:57

        Yeah. And when you say stacking, it's like if, if I-

    25. JKJake Kaminski2:27:59

        Shooting six arrow ends in the size of the s- the okay symbol that you can make with your fingers-

    26. TFTim Ferriss2:28:04

        Yeah, yeah

    27. JKJake Kaminski2:28:04

        ... basically.

    28. TFTim Ferriss2:28:04

        Yeah.

    29. JKJake Kaminski2:28:05

        Like, and that's impressive-

    30. TFTim Ferriss2:28:06

        Yeah

Episode duration: 2:40:04