Sir Richard Branson Interview | The Tim Ferriss Show (Podcast)

1. 0:00 – 8:08

   Intro

   1. TFTim Ferriss0:00

      Optimal minimal. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start to shake. Can I ask you a personal question? Now would have seemed an appropriate time. What if I did the opposite? I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton. The Tim Ferriss Show. This episode is brought to you by Ascent Protein, the cleanest, least processed protein I've ever consumed, and I have tried just about everything. [laughs] Since well before The 4-Hour Body, I've started my day with 20 to 30 grams of protein. First thing, that has been part of my routine. But I don't always have the time or necessarily the desire to cook an entire meal, so what to do? Protein powders can be a fast way to get this protein need met, but most products are full of crap. They're bleached, they have excess sugar, terrible artificial sweeteners, or just straightforward low-grade, low-quality protein. Ascent contains zero artificial ingredients, and the parent company is actually a cheese manufacturer, so they produce their own native proteins. It's, it's really fascinating, and I've looked at their processing. It takes, or it took them about five years to develop. You can mix the protein in as little as four ounces without any clumps or issues of mixability whatsoever, and they nailed the taste. They tested [laughs] for instance, for the chocolate version, 282 different versions. They put a lot of money and a lot of time into R&D for this particular product. And they have both whey and micellar casein, so if you want to, say, improve body composition and recovery overnight, slow release, you can take the micellar casein, or in my case, whey protein, I would take post-workout, for instance, or in the morning. So check it out. These guys are really fascinating. Visit ascentprotein.com/tim. That's A-S-C-E-N-T-P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com, Ascent, like first ascent going up. ascentprotein.com/tim, and you will receive 20% off your entire purchase. If you want a very quick 20 to 30 gram dose to start your day or after workout, this is a fantastic option. It is arguably the best that I've found. So again, check it out, ascentprotein.com/tim. [electronic music] This episode is brought to you by WordPress.com. I love WordPress. I have used it for so many years. It's my go-to platform for blogging and creating websites. I use WordPress.com for everything, every day. My site, tim.blog, is built on it. The websites for my books, including Tools of Titans, Tribe of Mentors, it's all on WordPress.com. And the founder, Matt Mullenweg, one of my close friends, has appeared on this show many times. Just search Matt Mullenweg, Tequila Ferriss for quite an exciting time. [laughs] Whether you're looking to create a personal blog, a business site, or both, you can make a really big impact right out of the box when you build on WordPress.com. And you'll be in good company. It's used by The New Yorker, Jay-Z, Beyoncé, FiveThirtyEight, TechCrunch, TED, CNN, and Time, just to name a handful. And one of my friends at Google, she'll remain nameless, has told me [laughs] that WordPress.com offers the, quote, "Best out of the box SEO imaginable," end quote. And it's one of the many reasons that nearly 30% of the internet is run on WordPress. You do not need experience or to hire someone. That's perhaps the best part. WordPress.com guides you through the entire experience. They have hundreds of designs and templates that you can use, and it's easy to get started. There's no need to worry about security, upgrades, hosting, any of that. They offer 24/7 support, and they're very, very responsive. If you have questions, they get right back to you, and this allows you to create the highest quality with the least amount of headache and friction. So if you're building a website, period, when my friends come to me and ask what I use, what I recommend they use, the answer is WordPress.com. So check it out. If you wanna get started today, learn more with a 15% discount off any new plan. Go to WordPress.com/tim to create your website and find the plan that's right for you. So learn more. Take a look. WordPress.com/tim for 15% off a brand new website. Check it out. [electronic music] Hello, ladies and gentlemen. This is Tim Ferriss, and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. I am so giddy, so excited about this episode, [laughs] and it is one in a series of close to 300 episodes now, where each time around, I try to deconstruct a world-class performer and share with you the stories, the habits, routines, beliefs, negotiating skills, in this particular case, that you can test and apply in your own lives. These are the skillsets that help each of these interviewees become the best at what they do. And our guest today is none other than the one and only Sir Richard Branson, @RichardBranson in pretty much everything. He's, uh, Richard Branson on Twitter, Richard Branson on Facebook, RBranson on LinkedIn. And if you don't know who he is, Richard Branson is the founder and chairman of the Virgin Group. He is a world-famous entrepreneur, adventurer, activist, and certainly business icon. He's launched a dozen billion-dollar businesses and hundreds of other [laughs] companies. The origins are crazy. The later stories are even crazier. And his new autobiography, Finding My Virginity, and I have a, I have a long history with Richard's books, which we get into in this episode, but his new autobio, Finding My Virginity, shares the candid details of a lifetime of triumphs and failures, both of which have been very spectacular, and provides an intimate look at his quest to push boundaries, break rules, and seek new frontiers. This episode was recorded as he was bouncing around the globe, and primarily in Marrakesh, or Marraketch, depending on how you wanna pronounce it, Morocco. So the music you hear in the background [laughs] is due to that. We worked very hard to get this scheduled. I loved this conversation. I've heard a lot of conversations with Richard before, including in person. I think this one really delivers the goods. We covered a lot and got into a lot of details, talked about many things I'd never heard him talk about before, including his thoughts on clean meat, if you don't know what that means, we'll get into it, blockchain, cryptocurrency, how he's coped with dyslexia, and how his parents helped make him resilient, the behind-the-scenes stories of deal-making, PR stunts, big wins, and, in some cases, big losses, the habits and life decisions he's used to maintain high energy levels for decades now, how he caps or limits downside risk even though he's perceived as a risk-taker, how and why he takes, say, regular one to two-month, sometimes longer, breaks from alcohol, favorite books, lessons learned from Nelson Mandela, and many others, and much, much more. We cover a ton. I was really nervous about this episode for a host of reasons and could not be happier with how it turned out, so I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed it, and definitely find Finding My Virginity at all fine booksellers. You can check it out. Uh, I'm certainly gonna be digging in myself. And without further ado, please enjoy my extremely wide-ranging conversation with Sir Richard Branson.

2. 8:08 – 13:40

   Sheltering during a hurricane

   1. TFTim Ferriss8:09

      Richard, welcome to the show.

   2. RBRichard Branson8:10

      Thank you very much. Very nice to talk to you.

   3. TFTim Ferriss8:13

      I have been looking forward to this conversation for more than 20 years [laughs] and-

   4. RBRichard Branson8:20

      All right. Well, that, that's, that, that's, that's a lot to live up to. [laughs]

   5. TFTim Ferriss8:25

      [laughs] It is a lot to live up to.

   6. RBRichard Branson8:26

      Um, but, uh, anyway, congr- congratulations on all you've, you've achieved as well, so-

   7. TFTim Ferriss8:31

      Thank you. No, I appreciate it. We've, uh, we've bumped into each other here and then, uh, different points around the world, but, uh, I've always wanted to sit down and very selfishly ask you a lot of questions ever since I bought your first autobiography, uh, Losing My Virginity, and have carried it with me since college through starting all of my businesses since. I thought we could just begin, I suppose, with current events. I've been following you around the planet to have this conversation, which I'm thrilled that we're able to have because you've gone through some pretty extenuating circumstances recently. Could you describe for us, I saw your Instagram post, for instance, about retreating into the wine cellar under your, uh, home or the main building, I suppose it was, on Necker Island. Uh, where are you right now, and, uh, could you describe what that experience was like?

   8. RBRichard Branson9:26

      It's a strange thing to say, but I've, I've, I've had the privilege of being through four hurricanes before this one, and, uh, about one every 10, 10 years in the Caribbean. And, um, you know, a Force One, Force Two hurricane, by and large, is magnificent. It's, you know, it's dramatic. The sea, uh, the sea troughs, the, the trees bend, the, you know, incredible lightning storms, and, and it's one of the sort of m- marvels of life. And, you know, yes, there's damage. Um, you know, trees come down and... But generally speaking, you know, the, the damage is, you know, you can, you can overcome that damage. Uh, this hurricane was altogether different. And I mean, the... Uh, you, you've got sort of Force Five... Category Force Five hurricanes is the highest it goes. Uh, the hurricane that was coming to hit us was actually Category Seven. They d- they didn't even have it in the books. Uh, you know, I was definitely gonna stay on island 'cause we had 60 members of our staff on island. Uh, but I knew that it w- it would be foolish, uh, to be, you know, up in the main house, you know, watching nature at its worst. We had to, um, get into a, a very, very, very secure area. And so the moment it started hitting, we went down into a sort of concrete bunker, uh, at the bottom of the house. And for five hours, I mean, it screamed. I mean, it was, um, you know, the whole concrete bunker shuddered and, uh, you know, the, there were, you know, young girls as well as the guys or a couple of children in the bunker. Uh, there was, there was a number of tears. Um, water was pouring through. Um, uh, but I don't think any of us feared for our lives. We knew that we were in a, in a strong area. Um, we, we felt for, uh, the 600 flamingos on the lake. We, we, we felt for the lemurs that, that were still outside. We, we felt for the people, uh, of the rest of the Caribbean and the British Virgin Islands who lived in, you know, wooden shacks and, uh, and buildings that weren't, were nothing as strong as strong. And then equally, suddenly it stopped. I mean, it was suddenly, there was complete hush outside, and we waited 15 minutes, and we couldn't work out whether this was the end of the storm, uh, or whether we were in the eye of the storm. And, um, we, we stuck our head out of the door, and I just looked at complete, utter devastation. It was as if a hurricane had hit, hit the island. Um, and, you know, I don't often cry over possessions or, you know, s- you know, being damaged, but, uh, yeah, definitely, uh, um, I think all of us had tears in our eyes. Within five minutes, the other side of the storm hit, and we threw ourselves back in- To the hurricane shelter, and we huddled there for another four or five hours. And, um, when we finally came out, um, we, we surveyed the damage and, you know, on our own island it was pretty devastating, uh, to say the least. Within 24 hours we'd, we'd started going around the c- the, um, uh, the rest of the British Virgin Islands and, I mean, 90% of homes were destroyed or nearly destroyed. Uh, incredible, uh, that, uh, more, more life wasn't lost. I mean, and incredible the resilience of the, uh, Caribbean people. I mean, stories, you know, that they told, you know, like, you know, one, one person told me of, you know, the house disappearing above their head with their children and their grandchildren in it, uh, running to the neighbor's house. Um, that then disappeared. You know, running to a wall, uh, the wall started collapsing, uh, and they ended up, all the whole family, in a cesspit up to their, uh, knees in, uh, in shit [laughs] . And, and but they survived it. And, uh, you know, there's a thir- there was a 13-year-old girl who within three days was, uh, set up a, a, a makeshift school, uh, um, out- outside teaching kids younger than her. And, um, so anyway, very resilient people and, and, you know, the last couple... the last month I've just spent trying to work out ways of seeing whether the whole of the Caribbean, but the whole of the British Virgin Islands, um, can come back better and stronger and, um, uh, and, you know, cleaner and, you know, see if we can get some positive things to come out of what's obviously been, um, you know, been, um, a sad

3. 13:40 – 29:20

   Richard’s near-death experiences

   1. RBRichard Branson13:40

      event.

   2. TFTim Ferriss13:41

      So I'd love to dig into your, I suppose we could call it familiarity with, [laughs] uh, what some people would look at as near-death experiences. Uh, th- this is from a New Yorker profile, but you hold records and the, the writer observed you might also hold the record for the number of highly publicized near-death experiences. So if, uh, this was, this was some time ago, I mean, this is 10 years ago, 2007, but pulled from the sea five times by helicopters, once from a frozen lake during one of your attempts to circle the globe, crashed into the Algerian desert. The Chinese Air Force threatened to shoot one of your balloons out of the sky at one point, and it goes, it goes on and on. When you are in circumstances like that, and you mentioned you had a lot of staff, uh, down in the, in the basement with you, what did you say to those people, if there were people there who were very, very worried or perhaps panicking in some, in some sense? What did you say or what did you do in those circumstances?

   3. RBRichard Branson14:39

      Uh, I think hu- humor is important. You know, putting on a brave, [laughs] putting on a brave face. You know, cr- cracking, you know, cracking, cracking jokes. Um, plenty of hugs. I mean, I think, uh, um, hugs are important [laughs] . You know, but I think, you know, like when we were all down, all down in the bunker, um, I mean, just to try to reassure them that, you know, that- that- that we, we, that the, the, that even 200 mile an hour winds were not going to, uh, bring a sort of concrete, you know, concrete bunker down. You know, with, with some of my other, some of the other adventures where we were, you know, in, in a, in a, um, a capsule up in the, um, you know, fly- flying, you know, flying, um, around the world and when things went wrong, you know, there were just two of us generally, and you, you, you know, both of you have got to try to keep the spirits of the other, the other person up. And, um, if you're gonna survive, the only way you're gonna survive is, uh, by keeping focused, by, you know, staying positive, even if you are facing almost certain death. I mean, it's, um, that, you know, you're, you're, you're definitely, you're definitely going to die unless you, uh, stay focused and stay positive and, uh, and fight to the bitter end. Um, and you know, there have been circumstances where, you know, on paper [laughs] we had a, well over a 90% chance of, um, not coming home. And, um, and I think by staying focused, by staying positive and, and with, you know, a, a, a big dose of good fortune, um, we made it all the way back.

   4. TFTim Ferriss16:09

      So if we rewind the clock then, I mean, these are some of the exploits that you're known for, but if we rewind the clock back to childhood, I'd read that one of your headmasters had observed, or he'd said to you actually, "I predict you will either end up in prison or a millionaire." I don't know if that's true. This is [laughs] ... You have to be careful what you read on the internet. But if that is true, what, what do you think this headmaster saw in you or observed in you at such a young age that would, that would, uh, lead to such a statement?

   5. RBRichard Branson16:42

      Uh, it w- it is true. Uh, it was his parting words to me as I left s- left school-

   6. TFTim Ferriss16:47

      [laughs]

   7. RBRichard Branson16:48

      ... um, a- a- a- aged, um, uh, just, just turning 16. And, you know, I think that, you know, I, first of all, I, I am dyslexic. I was dyslexic, so conventional, um, schooling definitely passed me by. And I was somebody that, uh, you know, felt very strongly about some of the issues in the world. The biggest issue in the world at that time was a very unjust war, the Vietnamese War. I mean, most wars are very unjust, but, uh, but this was, you know, yet another very, very unjust war. Uh, and I, like many young people, was, was determined to try to campaign very hard, um, to stop the war. And, and I thought maybe the best way of doing it was to launch a magazine for young people that, um, could be distributed not just amongst schools, but universities as well, which would be a, a campaigning magazine, and it would give young people the voice that they didn't have. You know, I, I, I started planning this magazine at school and working out of the school phone box trying to sell advertising and, you know, ringing up James Baldwin or Jean-Paul Sartre or, or, you know, Vanessa Redgrave or any- anybody I'd felt who, you know, Tariq Ali and, uh, you know, uh, Bernhard Conin Bendit from, from Germany. Anybody I felt that, you know, could, that could contribute to- a magazine, a campaigning magazine like this, um, and getting them to contribute. And, um, uh, and surprisingly, you know, managed to get enough advertising to cover the printing and the pa- paper costs of the, of the first issue. And so when the headmaster called me in and said, "You know, you c- you, you, you either must stay at school and stop doing this magazine idea of yours and just concentrate on your schoolwork, or, uh, you're gonna have to leave school to run your magazine," uh, it was an easy decision for me. [laughs] And, and, um, uh, and I, I'm grateful to the headmaster for, for being, uh, such a foolish headmaster. I mean, obviously-

   8. TFTim Ferriss18:50

      [laughs]

   9. RBRichard Branson18:50

      ... it would be much better if, if I, if I, if I could, if I could have, if I could have done both, then I think it would've been good for the school. But, um, and I met him a few years later and, you know, and, um, uh, you know, he, he was, he was very gracious and, um, you know, congratulated us on our success and so on. But, but I think, you know, I did end up in prison for a night, um, a few years later. Um, and I definitely, uh... And that was before I'd become a millionaire. So, so I think, um, you know, I remembered the headmaster's words, and I remember how unpleasant being in prison for a night is, and, um, and saying to myself, you know, "I will never, ever, ever do anything that warrants me going to prison again." So it was a, it was, it's... I think everybody should spend a, spend a night in prison.

   10. TFTim Ferriss19:34

       [laughs]

   11. RBRichard Branson19:34

       Uh, so he a- so he actually got it, he actually got it right on, on both, both counts.

   12. TFTim Ferriss19:38

       [laughs] What did you do that led, or what happened that led to that night in prison?

   13. RBRichard Branson19:45

       What happened was, um, that, uh, whilst we had the magazine, w- we started, in the magazine, a little mail order company for, uh, people who wanted to buy music, and we called this mail order company Virgin Records. Nobody had sold music cheaply before, so we, we, you know, we discounted it by 10 to, you know, 10 to 30% off. And, um, and we sold music that we loved, so, you know, Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, ro- you know, it was rock and roll music rather than, uh, the, the sort of Andy Williams and the mixture of, you know, rubbish that, w- you know, other rubbish that was out there. And, um, and so y- you know, the public loved it. It, you know, it resonated with young people. Um, and it, it, we had good taste, and we were aiming at, at kids with good taste. And, um, and then one day, um, somebody ordered some, um, records from Belgium, uh, from us, a big, uh, you know, a big group, a big, large, you know, amount of records from Belgium. And so we've, you know, we got a lorry, and we, we, we drove across the, um, drove down to Dover, Dover and across to France. And when we got to France, they said, um, "Where are you taking, where are you selling these records?" And we said, "In, in Belgium." And they said, "Well, you're not allowed to come through France and sell them in Belgium without a carne, which means that you're not going to leave them in France. Um, so you're gonna have to go back to England." And as we were driving back to England, we realized that we had all these pieces of paper signed that said that we'd exported them, and now if we could sell them in England, [laughs] we wouldn't have to pay the 35% tax. Um-

   14. TFTim Ferriss21:24

       [laughs]

   15. RBRichard Branson21:25

       Uh, so foolishly, we sold them in England. And, you know, what we didn't realize was that there were other, bigger retail chains doing something very similar in a, a much more professional way, and there was a, you know, a group of customs and excise people who, uh, were investigating this, uh, th- this idea. And anyway, so, uh, we got busted and, uh, fortunately didn't get a criminal record 'cause, you know, they, they said, "You're gonna, you can, you can pay the fine off over three years, and as long as you pay the fine off, you won't get a criminal record." And, um, and actually, it spurred on the opening of... You know, we had to open 30 or 40, uh, record stores in order to pay off [laughs] Richard's fine and-

   16. TFTim Ferriss22:04

       [laughs]

   17. RBRichard Branson22:04

       ... keep myself out of prison. And, uh, so, uh, very g- very grateful to, to customs and excise for, um, giving us that incentive.

   18. TFTim Ferriss22:12

       What did your parents say to you at that time when you got in trouble and ended up in jail, and, and how old were you at, at the time, if you could place us?

   19. RBRichard Branson22:21

       I was 19 years old, so still a teenager, still just about allowed to be naughty.

   20. TFTim Ferriss22:27

       [laughs]

   21. RBRichard Branson22:27

       I remember I was at, in, in Dover Magistrate's Court, and the judge said he wanted, you know, £10,000 bail, and, and I said, "Look, there's no way I can afford £10,000 bail." And so he said, "Well, you know, I'm, I'm sorry, but you'll have to go to prison and wait, await, and await the trial then." And my mother stood up and said, "Well, what, what, what, what about if I pledge the family home? Um, would you, would, would that, would that be all right?" And the judge was good enough to, you know, say, "That, that would be fine. If you pledge the family house, you, you, you... That would be fine." So then I gave my mother a very, very big hug. Uh, and many, many years later, I mean, you know, right, right, you know, 50 years later nearly, you know, we're now working very hard in America to try to, um, uh, help people who can't afford bail get bail. And, um, you know, there's this awful situation in the States, for instance, where, you know, where if you've got money or if you've got a house to pledge, you don't go to prison for six months waiting, awaiting your trial. But if you're, if you're poor, often Black, uh, im- you know, um, you end up languishing in prison for a few months while waiting for your trial, even although you can be completely innocent. So, uh, so, s- obvio- obviously, lots of personal experiences come back and m- and, and, uh, have influenced my life later on.

   22. TFTim Ferriss23:46

       Well, I, I'd like to talk about influence. You mentioned your mother, and in preparing for this conversation, I, I took a, a closer look at your mom, [laughs] and I have to say, what I was going to do is not mention the last name and read this description. But your, so your mom also wrote a book called Mums the Word: The High Flying Adventures of Eve Branson. I just have to read a few lines here to give people some context. "A classically trained ballet dancer, she appeared in racy West End productions, disguised herself as a boy to take glider lessons, enlisted in the Women's Royal Navy Service, and then embarked on a series of harrowing adventures as a Star Girl air hostess on the ill-fated British South American Airways." And it goes on and on. This seems to potentially explain a lot. Uh, [laughs] and I was, I was curious to know, uh, specifically when you were a kid struggling with dyslexia, and I'm not sure if it was even properly diagnosed at the time, but h- how did your, your mom, uh, respond to that? What did she tell you when you were having trouble with school or having trouble reading? H- how did your parents or your mother help you navigate that? What, what was the experience like?

   23. RBRichard Branson25:00

       Yeah, first of all, I'm lucky. I mean, I, uh, I have a very [laughs] extraordinary mother and a, a, and a lovely father, and we're, we're a very, very close-knit family, and that's fortunately continued with myself and my wife and, and children and so on ever since. So, uh, so that's given us a fantastic foundation as, as, as a family. When I was young, the, the word dyslexia I don't think existed. I don't think the word entrepreneur existed either, uh, except maybe in the French dictionary. And so they, you know, they, they... so it was just assumed that I was thick and, you know, they, they just got used to, you know, th- these dreadful marks that came back on, on, um, you know, my math paper or my English paper and so on. Um, and, um, uh, and, and I think that made it that much easier when I actually said, you know, that I want to leave school, um, you know, age 15, uh, I think. Although the- my dad walked me around the garden, you know, three times instead of just once, um, you know, by the end of the walk, and I remember him saying, you know, "Look, at least you know what you wanna do. At 15, I didn't know what I wanted to do when I was 22. It, I, I respect you for, for that and go give it a go, and if it doesn't work out, we'll try to help you get an ed- you know, a pr- a formal education again." You know, my mother, you know, she, you know, her whole approach in bringing up her children was one where she would, she would've been arrested today. In those days she could get away with it. So, you know, uh, you know, at age four or five she would, you know, shove me out of the car, you know, two or three miles from grandmother's house and tell me to make my own way there. She would, you know, put me on a bicycle age seven or eight and tell me to ride, you know, 300 miles in the pouring rain, uh, again, to grandmother's [laughs] house. And her attitude was, you know, if we survived, you know, we'd be the stronger for it. She wouldn't allow us to watch television, for instance. We had to get out there and do things. And, um, uh, and, you know, so she would push us out of, out of the house and, you know, tell us to come back in the evening and, you know, g- and, um, you know, get out there, go and climb trees, rescue cats, you know, um, and, um, I'll see, see you tonight. So, you know, we lived in the countryside and, um, you know, it was a, it, you know, it was a, it was a fun, a fun upbringing, um, and, um, very, but a v- very loving upbringing. I mean, it may not sound like it. She wasn't actually trying to kill us.

   24. TFTim Ferriss27:21

       [laughs]

   25. RBRichard Branson27:21

       She did love us as well. [laughs] Um-

   26. TFTim Ferriss27:25

       What, uh, what would she say to you, one, for instance, it's raining out, you're in the car, would she give you any warning? And what, what would she say to you if w- if it was raining and she wanted you to get out and, and ride a bike home in the pouring rain? Was there any, uh, any kinda lead-up, any less-

   27. RBRichard Branson27:44

       [laughs]

   28. TFTim Ferriss27:44

       ... any lesson that she would impart before that? I'm just thinking, I don't have any kids myself, but I think about parenting a lot. What, what, w- like c- can you replay for us just one of those scenes so we, we know how it was presented to you?

   29. RBRichard Branson27:56

       I think the getting out of the c- the pushing us out of the car was most likely, I was most likely having a little debate with my younger sister and, and, and so it wasn't really, you know, this is, this is gonna be a life lesson. It was more, um, you know-

   30. TFTim Ferriss28:10

       [laughs]
4. 29:20 – 39:14

   Richard on mitigating risk

   1. TFTim Ferriss29:20

      So I, I think that many people have the impression of you as a fly-by-the-seat-of-the-pants entrepreneur who throws caution to the wind and bets the farm on many, many things, and, uh, what I'd love to talk about is maybe the, the alternative to that or the complement to that, we don't have to do either/or, which is risk mitigation. Because the m- the more I look at what you've done, in many cases, not all cases, but in many cases you seem like a master at mitigating risk and capping the downside. So I was, I was hoping maybe you could talk about, I believe it was, uh, I think you were en route, c- if you could clarify for me, to BVI and, uh, there was a flight canceled in Puerto Rico.

   2. RBRichard Branson30:10

      Mm-hmm.

   3. TFTim Ferriss30:10

      But how you actually ended up in the, uh, airline business, uh, because I, I, I, I find it such an illustrative and helpful story, if you wouldn't mind telling people a little bit about the origins.

   4. RBRichard Branson30:24

      Well, uh, I was in my 20s. Um, I'd been away from my girlfriend for three weeks. I was- ... uh, coming back to see her that night, I was, um, in Puerto Rico, about 6:00 in the evening. I was heading to the Virgin Islands, and, um, American Airlines announced that they were going to move the flight to the next morning because they didn't have enough passengers, and I was damned if I was gonna wait till the next morning. My girlfriend hadn't seen me for three weeks, and I hadn't seen her for three weeks, so I was determined to get there that night. So I went to the back of the airport, hoping that my credit card wouldn't bounce, and I, I rented a plane. I'd borrowed a blackboard, and as a joke I wrote, "Virgin Airlines, one way, $29 or $39 to the, uh, British Virgin Islands," and I went out amongst all the people who'd been bumped, and I filled up my first plane. And as we arrived in the BVI, you know, about 8:00 or 9:00 that night, one of the passengers, you know, tapped me on the shoulder and said, um, "You know, sharpen up the service a bit, Richard, and you could be in the airline business."

   5. TFTim Ferriss31:33

      [laughs]

   6. RBRichard Branson31:33

      And, um, so, um, so that ... it got me thinking. You know, airlines do bump people. Uh, you know, most airlines, you know, uh, don't look after people. You know, the, the staff generally don't smile. The food was dreadful. I mean ... And so the next morning I was on Necker Island, and, and I rang up Boeing, and I asked to talk to the sales department. And, and a wonderful man, who I got to know, know very well over the years, called RJ Wilson, answered the phone. And, um, the call went roughly like this. I said, um, "My ... You know, my name is Richard Branson, and, um, I'm interested in buying a secondhand 747." And RJ Wilson said, "Well, you know, would you mind telling me, you know, what you do?" I said, "I'm in the record business. I've got the Rolling Stones, I've got the Sex Pistols, I've got Janet Jackson, and, you know, lots of wonderful artists." And I could sort of feel that he was, you know, like, um, fee- feeling that I was slightly wasting his time, and, um-

   7. TFTim Ferriss32:28

      [laughs]

   8. RBRichard Branson32:29

      But he said, um, "And you're, you're based in England?" I said, "Uh, uh, well, our, our company's based in England." And so he carried on talking bec- ... And, and, and, and subsequently I learned that he carried on talking because they were so fed up with British Airways always legging, legging it over them because they had no competition. They thought ... You know, in the back of his head, his mind, he was thinking may- maybe the ... you know, by having a competitor to British Airways they'd be able to have a bit more leverage. So, so he said, um, "Look, I'll tell you what. I'll, I'll come and see you. Uh, you know, we do happen to have one secondhand 747, but with a name like Virgin, um, I really feel you should change the name. With a name like Virgin, people will think you're not gonna go the whole way." Um, [laughs] so-

   9. TFTim Ferriss33:09

      [laughs]

   10. RBRichard Branson33:09

       ... I, I, [laughs] I, um, uh, I said, "Well, I'll, I'll, I'll s- I, I thank you for your advice, and I'll, I'll think of, I'll think about that." So I then, you know, talked to my fellow record company team, and, and they went into complete pa- panic mode. I mean, you know, "What on earth are we, uh, is Richard doing thinking of taking us into the airline business? Uh, we, we have the most successful independent record label in the world. We're ... You know, we, we, we, we've just signed the Rolling Stones. We've got ... You know, we're, we're ... Everything's going from strength to strength. Um, and, um, you know, he, he's putting every- he's gonna put everything at risk by going into the airline business." And so what I said to them was, "Look, I promise that, you know, I, I'll, I'll, I'll only go into the airline business on one condition, and that is if I can persuade Boeing to let me hand the plane back at the end of the first year." I ... You know, to protect the downside, so I knew that the worst that could happen would be, you know, maybe six months of the profits of Virgin Records we would lose if it didn't work out. And, um, Boeing agreed to it, and, you know, when the end of the first year came, instead of handing the plane back, people loved Virgin Atlantic, and, you know, we had a, you know, you know, people flocked to it, and we had a spirit about it which was very different from British Airways. We ended up buying a couple more seven- secondhand 747s from Boeing, and, uh, and then, you know, over the years since, we've bought, uh, some hundreds of planes [laughs] from, you know, uh, for var- three or four different airlines that we set up over the years, from Boeing. So RJ Wilson, you know, certainly deserves some, a pat on the back at Boeing, I think.

   11. TFTim Ferriss34:42

       [laughs] So how did you convince RJ b- to agree to allow you to return the plane if things didn't work out? What was the, what was the pitch, or what was the, what was the approach?

   12. RBRichard Branson34:56

       Well, we liked each other, which, which I think is always important in, in, uh, any negotiation, and, you know, he admitted that, you know, one of the reasons they wanted to see us in business was to, you know, to enable them to have a little bit of competition with British Airways. And, you know, I think, I, you know, I, I, I, you know, I think we, we showed him that we'd managed to build a, a very successful global record company. And, you know, unlike other people, I mean, uh, you know, I argued that, um, being in ent- you know, being in entertainment, actually, you know, that's important in the, in the airline business, that, you know, that most airline owners just, um, uh, just, you know, see airlines as a, as a way of transporting people from A to B, um, but actually entertaining people, uh, i- is, is important, and if people are locked in a tin can for eight or nine hours or, or 12 hours, they, they want to be entertained, and that, you know, that I felt we could bring our entertainment skills to that. Uh, you know, when British Airways heard that we were going to go into the business, they, they dismissively said, Lord King famously said, um, "Too young to fly, too old to rock and roll."

   13. TFTim Ferriss36:02

       [laughs]

   14. RBRichard Branson36:03

       Um, uh, and followed up by saying, you know, "What on earth is somebody from the entertainment business going into the airline business for?" But of course that's just what British Airways didn't realize was they were not ... Y- you know, they, they were dumping a bit, a lump of chicken on somebody's lap. They were, uh, showing, you know, maybe one film, if people were lucky, on the screen to children, to grannies, to business people. You know, there was no choice. There was ... You know, they had cabin crew who weren't given the c- tools to do a good job, and therefore they never smiled. And- And so it went on, and so, you know, exactly what the airline industry, what needed was, uh, an airline that, that could entertain people. You know, so we, when we launched Virgin Atlantic with our one plane, you know, we had standup bars. We had, uh, you know, we had cabin crew who were absolutely delight, you know, delightful and, you know, loved what they were doing. Uh, we had humor. I mean, we, like, we, we showed the film Ar- Airplane on the first flight. You know, when, when we ... in the cockpit, we had, um, you know, we sh- we, we, we told our passengers that they were gonna see the, the, the pilots and s- you know, the screen came on, and there was the backs of the heads of the pilots, and-

   15. TFTim Ferriss37:15

       [laughs]

   16. RBRichard Branson37:16

       ... you know, became ... it became, became apparent they had quite long hair and, and then, you know, two famous cricketers turned around and handed each other a spliff. They were the, the front pilots, and then I took the spliff. I was the pilot just behind them, and, um, and it was deathly hush in the plane and, uh, uh, just as we took off and-

   17. TFTim Ferriss37:34

       [laughs]

   18. RBRichard Branson37:34

       ... and, and, and then I, I stood up so they could see I wasn't actually in the cockpit, and-

   19. TFTim Ferriss37:39

       [laughs]

   20. RBRichard Branson37:39

       ... uh, uh, we, we, we pre- pre- prerecorded that the day before, and, um, and the whole plane, the whole plane just fell about laughing. And you know, the journey, the journey over, the ... more champagne was drunk, I think, than on any, any flight before or after. And, um, you know, the pilot, you know, he would, you know, he got into the sense of humor. So you know, he'd be flying along, and he would le- he would have the plane slightly leaning to the right and, um, um, uh ... and then he would ask all the passengers on the right-hand side of the plane, "Sorry. Look, there's just too many people passing on the right. Would some of you move over to the left, please?" And then he would [laughs] swing the plane a bit to the left.

   21. TFTim Ferriss38:17

       [laughs]

   22. RBRichard Branson38:18

       And anyway, the, the, the ... it was, uh, the, the ... it, it was a laugh a minute the whole way. But for anybody who's thinking, "My God, I would never fly on this man's airline," you know, we, we got ... I got the chief technical officer of British Caledonian to actually run our airline. You know, obviously safety is paramount if you're running an airline, and 35 years later, you know, we have many airlines, and we've, you know ... and it's been ... they've all been wonderfully run. But that doesn't preclude you entertaining people. That doesn't preclude humor. That doesn't preclude ... You know, we're always trying to be cutting edge, um, you know, w- whether it's seat-back videos. We ... You know, we, we, we pushed the industry to invent a seat-back video, and we were five years before British Airways with seat-back videos, giving people a choice. And, um, you know, so we, we love trying to, you know, cut through and do, do things, um, differently and, you know, from, from others. And, and I think that's why, you know, Virgin Atlantic has survived. The, the airlines have done

5. 39:14 – 50:44

   British Airways launches the “Dirty Tricks” campaign against Virgin

   1. RBRichard Branson39:14

      well. I mean, when, you know, when I, when we set up with one plane, we were competing with TWA, with Pan Am, with Air Florida, with Laker Airways, with, with People Express, and so on, uh, with hundred ... all of these, most of these airlines with hundreds of planes, and we had one plane. And the, the, the graveyard of airlines was massive. I mean, like people who'd just tried to go into the airline business and failed, and over the next three or four years, pretty well all these airlines, including a lot of others, Air Europe, Dan-Air, all went bankrupt. You know, and somehow this l- th- this little, um, uh, David versus, you know, these Goliaths survived, you know, because, you know, because we offered a better product. And, and British Airways did not like it. I mean, they, they were absolutely determined to, um, drive us out of business and, and as they had driven out of business a lot of these other airlines. And, um, they launched something called the Dirty Tricks campaign. I mean, it wasn't publicly known as the Dirty Tricks campaign in the early days because nobody knew it was going on. Um, but they, you know, they set up behind closed doors a group of people who illegally tapped our computer information, and they would ring our passengers. They would pretend, for instance, to be from Virgin, and they would say, "Very sorry. Your flight has been delayed, but we can move you onto a British Airways flight." Or had people going into the nightclubs that we owned in London. Uh, we had a big gay nightclub called Heaven, and they would rustle through the, uh, rustle through the, uh, the bins outside and try to find needles or anything that, that would, um, uh, look like maybe drugs would be taken in the club. And then they would, you know, leak the stories to the News of the World, um, Rupert Murdoch's papers, and, uh, try to damage us that way. Or they would have people going through my own rubbish bins, uh [laughs] , which they got caught doing, uh, and, um, journalists' rubbish bins that, you know, that, that, that we maybe had, um, had talked to or ... an- and they would try to spread stories about our finances. And, um, and in, in the end, we decided to take them to court, and it was Christmastime. And, um, we won the biggest libel dam- damages in history against British Airways, and, and we distributed it to all our staff equally. And, um, because it was Christmastime, it became known as the British Airways Christmas bonus.

   2. TFTim Ferriss41:35

      [laughs]

   3. RBRichard Branson41:36

      Um, a- and, and, and, and, and I think our s- our staff, staff are hoping that British Airways will get up to their tricks again. But I mean, I mean, you know, that, that helped, uh, helped anyway keep them, keep them on ... slightly more honest as, as the time went on.

   4. TFTim Ferriss41:50

      How did you identify the Dirty Tricks campaign? How did, how did it become discovered?

   5. RBRichard Branson41:56

      It was generally speaking British Airways staff that came to us, um, I mean, particularly one, one particular individual who actually worked in the, the locked ... behind the locked doors tapping our computer information, uh, who felt very uncomfortable about it. You know, and, and oth- others, I mean, you know, for instance, they were, they were ... they had teams of people in New York who were going up to our passengers that got out of their limousines to board a Virgin plane, uh, again saying, "I'm sorry, but the Virgin plane has been delayed or has a problem, but I, we ... I've been sent here by Virgin to take you over to British Airways." And some of our passengers managed to rumble them on this one. And, and, and let us know. So, you know, so it was a combination of different things. I mean, there was one person who was just caught red-handed, uh, going, going through the rubbish bins. Uh, yeah, so we were luck- lucky to get it exposed. I mean, you know, one of the sad outcomes of this was, uh, they, they, they, they were also dumping capacity on, on the few routes that we had. Um, and that's, that's the normal trick of a, you know, big airlines against small airlines. They can afford to lose money on a few routes to drive a competitor out of business, and then they'll jack the prices up once that competitor's out of business. You know, and it was beginning to cost us some money. So, um, so I had to make a, a difficult decision. We had the, you know, the most successful independent record label in the world, uh, by then, and, um, you know, I knew that the only way of being completely sure of keeping the airline going and saving all the jobs for the record company was to sell one or the other. Now, the, the airline we could never sell, so we talked to Thorn EMI and, um, and they bought, they bought the record company, and, you know, it was a billion dollars, and so, you know, it should have been a happy day, but actually it was one of the saddest days of my life 'cause, you know, selling a company is selling people. Um, we built this company up from scratch. Uh, it had been tremendous fun building Virgin Records. But, you know, we now had the fire power to be sure that the, the staff of the record company's jobs were secure, but, you know, under, under different ownership and, uh, and the airline was secure, and with that billion dollars, we knew that British Airways would, um, have to think twice before... You know, they might, they most likely would realize that we were, we were here to stay.

   6. TFTim Ferriss44:23

      Thank you for that explanation and context because it gives me a number of jumping off points. Uh, the, the first being, I suppose, opportunity and, and risk assessment. So you strike me as a really good negotiator. By, by necessity, you'd have to be. If you had, say, a would-be entrepreneur or a university senior, someone who's about to graduate and go into the real world, and you wanted... They tell you that they want to become a very good negotiator, a very good deal maker. How would you train them or what would you recommend they do or read to become a better negotiator or deal maker? Because you seem very, very astute and subtle in structuring things i- in, in very smart ways. What would you say to someone who wants to develop that skill set?

   7. RBRichard Branson45:12

      I'm sure there, there must be ways of being taught it, but in my opinion, nothing beats, um, beats, you know, personal experience. You know, my education was, you know, being thrown into the jungle, being thrown into the real world age 15 or 16 and having to survive, uh, and it was an incredible education and, you know, I, I learnt about everything in, in life. You know, um, you know, I traveled a lot. I met, met people all over the world. I, you know, I had to, you know, do a lot of different negotiations. You know, I think as I've got older, I've realized the, the, the... one of the most important things about a negotiation is striking a deal that, that is, uh, fair to both sides. I also realized as I get older that you're always gonna come across the same people time and time again in life, and so your reputation is everything. You know, in my new book, Finding My Virginity, I talk about our dealings with Delta and how, you know, the fr- they, they felt that they'd legged us over on, in, in, in a, in a clause in a contract and how they, they, they came to us to rectify it, and, you know, that's, that, that's something I'll never forget and, and most likely will, will be, you know, partners with Delta for the rest of my life because of that, you know, that, you know, that, that kind, that kind of approach. Um, you know, so I think, you know, if you, if you realize that your reputation is all you have and your personal reputation, the reputation of your brand, then you've got to, uh, make sure that you're, you're, you're negotiating a deal that, that you're not gonna be unhappy with and, and that, uh, and you think of all the things that could potentially go wrong and how you can get out of it if something goes wrong. But equally important is, you know, is strike to, trying to strike a, a fair balance with the people you're negotiating with.

   8. TFTim Ferriss47:00

      And when, uh, when we're looking internally, you mentioned how your teammates at the record company thought you were crazy when you brought up the airline. Are there any business ideas that you're glad your coworkers or team have prevented you from doing?

   9. RBRichard Branson47:16

      As, as you know, my nickname is Dr. Yes.

   10. TFTim Ferriss47:18

       Right. [laughs]

   11. RBRichard Branson47:19

       And, um, you know, I, I, I have books like Screw It, Just Do It, and I think, to be honest, if I want to do something, one of, one of the advantages of owning the company is I can normally ultimately get away with it. I mean, I'll try obviously to carry, carry people with me, but, um, and I s- and [laughs] and I'm sure there've been one or two things which I, where I have bull- uh, bullied the process through where I've regretted... Well, not regretted. I've never regretted anything, but where, where, uh, perhaps, um, uh, I should have listened more to others. But, um, I can't think of anything that, uh, where, you know, where they persuaded me not to do it. I think most likely, you know, when it comes to a decision about whether to do something or not, I'm, I like to think of myself as a benevolent dictator. [laughs]

   12. TFTim Ferriss48:01

       [laughs]

   13. RBRichard Branson48:03

       I get... That's the one, that's the one thing I sort of generally get my own way on. We, look, we would never have gone into space travel, we'll come to that I'm sure later on in this talk, you know, unless I was willing to, to do, to do things against the, against the sensible, you know, what would, you know, on paper be sensible advice of my, uh, fellow directors.

   14. TFTim Ferriss48:22

       [laughs] We, we will definitely get to, to space travel. What I'm curious about, uh, because it seems if I look at many of the businesses that you've started, the positioning is often against a particular incumbent, in the case of, say, airlines, for instance. That seems to be a common element in a lot of the company or, or product launches, and I wanna connect that with s- just some of your well-known adventures, and you'll see where this is going in a second. I mean, you've driven a tank down Fifth Avenue, crossed the English Channel in an amphibious car, took a 407-foot jump off the Palms Casino Resort in Las Vegas, uh, gone from Morocco to Hawaii in a hot air balloon. Y- you, you are very, very adept at PR stunts, getting attention for the things that you do and the companies that you do. Is, is... Are there any particular best practices or a playbook that you have found to be very, or principles for that matter, helpful with the launching of a, a new company, uh, or product?

   15. RBRichard Branson49:28

       I don't think so. I mean, I, I'm a great believer in trying. If, if, if your team worked really hard to, to launch a new business with you or for you, the least I think I can do is, is make a fool of myself, make sure that, uh, that new business ends up on the front pages of the newspapers rather than an anecdote on the back pages of the newspapers. So if that means having to use myself to, you know, put the new company on the map, I will do so, and I will try to do it in a way that makes people smile and that, that doesn't horribly backfire on me. It's like occasionally it has backfired, you know, and I suppose it's like being a host to a party. I mean, if you're the host of the party, if you, if you stand in the corner of the room and you sip your sherry and stand around with your fellow directors all in suits, everyone's gonna have a thoroughly dull party and, yeah, no- nobody'll have a good time. If you're, you know, the host of the party and you're the first in the swimming pool and, and everybody else jump in too, uh, yeah, they may be a bit cold for the rest of the evening, [laughs] but you know, they, they, they're gonna have a great evening, and I think, you know, the same applies when you're launching a business. You know, to, you know, make, make sure that you, um, put it on the map and, um, um, and just occasionally, uh, it will, it will backfire.

6. 50:44 – 58:51

   Why did Richard write Finding My Virginity?

   1. TFTim Ferriss50:44

      You mentioned space travel, which I do want to use as a touching off point to ask you, f- roughly 50 years after starting your first business, why, why write Finding My Virginity? What was the, the catalyst for that? Why do it?

   2. RBRichard Branson51:00

      I actually think every- everybody should write, um, a book about their lives. I've persuaded a number of people to write books about their lives. Steve, Steve Fossett, for instance. Um, anyway, and a, a number of people. Um, but it, you know, you don't have to have led a very public life. I think ev- everyone's led interesting lives. Uh, your, your children and your grandchildren, you know, will be fascinated by the lives, the lives you lead. And so I wrote a book find- um, Losing My Virginity when I was a young man about all, all the adventures. Um, you know, it became a bestseller and, and sold millions of copies. But, you know, I was qu- I was quite a young man when I wrote it, and the last 20 years, uh, or so have, uh, um, I've [laughs] been very full and, and very rich and ex- you know, extraordinary. So, um, so I thought I would write, um, in a sense a sequel to Losing My Virginity, which, which we called Finding My Virginity. And, uh, and if I live another 20 years, uh, uh, Virginity Found, I suspect, will be my last book. [laughs]

   3. TFTim Ferriss52:02

      [laughs]

   4. RBRichard Branson52:02

      Um, but, uh, we're, we're, we're, we're, we'll, we'll see how we go. But no, but I think, uh, you know, I think it's important. I, I love reading, reading and learning, and I think other- others might enjoy, hopefully will enjoy it. And you know, when I write books, I try to, I, I try not to make them like a, you know, and, and then, and then we did this and then we did that. Just try to make it a really good, gripping read and, and an enjoyable read and, and not try to sort of, you know, cram in everything one's done in 20 years. But, um, and, and hopefully people can get a few gems from it as well.

   5. TFTim Ferriss52:36

      Uh, well, I'm looking forward to, to reading it certainly. I mean, given how dog-eared and how worn my paperback copy of Finding, uh, My Virginity is, uh, I-

   6. RBRichard Branson52:47

      Of Losing, Of Losing My Virginity.

   7. TFTim Ferriss52:49

      Uh, yes, I'm sorry. That's, uh, I need more coffee.

   8. RBRichard Branson52:52

      [laughs]

   9. TFTim Ferriss52:52

      I just had some pu-erh tea, but it's a, it's a, it's a little light on the octane.

   10. RBRichard Branson52:55

       Right. [laughs]

   11. TFTim Ferriss52:56

       Uh, but I know exactly where it is. It's actually kept on a bookshelf. This is just a, a slight digression, but, uh, there are a handful of autobiographies and biographies that have had a, a large impact on my life, uh, and/or that I find very beautiful in many ways, and they are lined up on one shelf in my house so that I can see the spines, and yours is there. Uh, Open by Andre Agassi is there, and there are a handful of others. Uh, so it's very meaningful, so I'm looking forward to, to reading this. And as a meta question, what are the practices, if there are any practices or habits or, or anything for that matter, that helps you to keep your energy level as high as it is over so, over so many years? I've, I've seen you, for instance, uh, y- you seem to exercise a lot. I've seen you just go for hours and hours skiing, uh, swimming around Necker, kiteboarding. But, uh, could you speak to what helps you to maintain such a high level of energy and output over so long? It's, it's, it's really mind-boggling to me to even observe from afar.

   12. RBRichard Branson54:04

       Well, looking after yourself is, um, is, is, is obviously absolutely key to everything else and every- everything stems from, uh, you know, how healthy and well you are, both, you know, physically, mentally, and, and so on. I generally do it through sport. Uh, I'm, I've been very lucky that for many years I've lived on an island, and so I can get up early in the morning. I'll, I'll play a very hard game of singles tennis against somebody who's better than me. Uh, I'll then go kitesurfing, um, maybe go surfing, and then have breakfast and, and, and the day begins and, and I'll repeat that, uh, most likely later on in the day, um, and, you know, maybe swim around the island as well. So generally, I think I, I, I stay healthy and fit. As a family, um, you know, my kids are now taking my adventurous streak on board. So, uh, every year they set us a, a challenge which we do together. So, uh, [laughs] so just to, uh, to, uh, give you a taste of it, la- la- um, last year they set the challenge that we would start at the Matterhorn in Switzerland. We'd do an eight-day hike across the mountains. Uh, we'd then get on a bicycle. We'd dri- we, we'd ride 100 miles a day on the bike through the mountains all the way from the north of Italy to the southern-est tip of Italy. Then we'd swim to Sicily. Then we would do another bike ride, a marathon, and then we'd end up at the top of, um, Mount Etna. It took us a month. You know, I was [laughs] shattered about halfway through it. But by the end of it, I felt like a 25-year-old, and then I just have never felt so fit, you know, uh, since I was in my 20s. And, um, and obviously, you know, we'll, we'll try to raise money for a good cause at the same time. But the ve- the very fact that, um, you know, we set ourselves these challenges, something like tomorrow... I'm, I'm, I'm now in Morocco today and, um, you know, tomorrow we're, we're, we're about to climb Mount Toubkal, which is the highest mountain in, um, North Africa, together and, and a few other little things like bike rides and hikes and things thrown in. You know, s- setting ourselves challenges, doing it together as a family, you know, involving friends and, um, and, um, and, and trying to raise money for, for good causes, um, you know, that, that, that keeps you fit and healthy and your mind, your mind good so that you can then do a lot more as a result.

   13. TFTim Ferriss56:25

       S- so speaking of, of doing good, which you can certainly do through nonprofits and through for-profits and other vehicles, uh, many of my listeners wanted me to ask you to expand on your reasons for investing in Memphis Meats and clean meat. Uh, and so, so looking forward to your next 20 years of adventures, could you talk about that, that decision?

   14. RBRichard Branson56:49

       I mean, if you take this beautiful world we live in, y- you know, one of the things that make it so beautiful is things like the rai- the rainforests. And, um, the rainforests are rapidly disappearing, uh, because of our demand for, um, for beef, basically. You know, for every, e- every hamburger we eat, the amount of land that is needed to produce it, uh, is considerable. And as we're more and more successful at bringing more and more people out of poverty on a global basis, more and more people are starting to eat meats. So the only way of addressing this problem is either to persuade people not to eat meat, which is... I don't think is gonna be, you know, some- something that we can be successful at, or coming up with alternative forms of, of meat. So, um, you know, there's, there's, um, a wonderful company I think called Beyond Meat which produces hamburgers that, uh, taste absolutely like hamburgers but are made of, are made of vegetables. You know, there, there's the other company you just mentioned that we've invested in that is literally, you know, growing, uh, you know, taking a little, tiny little bit of a live animal, uh, without killing it and then growing it in laboratories so, um, you know, so you can have, uh, y- you know, you, you, you can have beef or you can, uh, you know, have chicken or pig or even, even, um, even fish they believe they'll be able to do. And you can make it even healthier than, um, the, the, the beef or the, or the, or the meats that you get from, from live animals. So the challenge obviously is producing it in quantity. They believe they will be able to do that. And if they can do it, hopefully one day we won't have to cut down the rainforests and, and therefore kill, kill animals i- in order to get our meat consumption. And, um, and I suspect, you know, when, when, when that happens, we'll actually look back at the, the wholesale slaughter of animals and the way that we did it and be slightly embarrassed about it. My ma- main reason for this is more to do with, um, trying to protect what's left of our beautiful

7. 58:51 – 1:01:34

   Views on cryptocurrency and blockchain

   1. RBRichard Branson58:51

      Earth.

   2. TFTim Ferriss58:51

      And if, if you're looking at other areas of interest, I mean, living as I did for a long time, 17 years, in Silicon Valley, the, the question of this sort of protein paradox or protein challenge is a very big one, so some people are looking at insect protein, like you mentioned. Some people are growing meat in laboratories. Others are looking at vegetable options. Another really active area of discussion is, uh, cryptocurrency or blockchain, and/or blockchain. Uh, how do you think about, if you do, cryptocurrency? I mean, when you're hearing all of the news and so on, are you engaging with that at all? Uh, are you s- choosing to step back? How are you thinking about cryptocurrency?

   3. RBRichard Branson59:35

      I, I mean, I f- find it... I don't spend a lot of time on this. I, I find blockchain very exciting. I think the fact that, um, you know, uh, uh, Hernán de Soto has written some wonderful books about how do you pull people out of poverty and, um, you know, he's say, taken Egypt as an example. The, the 90% of people who live in Egypt live in houses, but the, but the, they built those houses just on public land, and they have no, uh, piece of paper showing that they own that land. Um, so if they want to start a business, they can't mortgage their home, you know, or, you know, to, uh, start a business. They can't, um, use their asset to borrow money to send their children to school. And so blockchain, for instance, would be the perfect place you could go and register, you know, the, the millions, well, billions of homes around the world that have no ownership on blockchain and, you know, it can all be in one place and I, and I think it could s- it could start a revolution of, um, you know, wealth amongst for, for poor, for very poor people. You know, cryptocurrency, it's not something that I, I've spent a lot of time on, but I think I marvel at, uh, Bitcoin and, and, and the genius of the man who invented it and, you know, what it's achieved so far and, you know, and what it could possibly achieve in the years to come and, uh, and Ethereum and some of these other cryptocurrencies that are coming up. Again, you know, hats off to these geniuses [laughs] who have, you know, who, who are producing them and, you know, but m- more of my energy, to be honest, is now spent on, you know, on different kinds of issues. But I mean, it, it, I, I, I'm fascinated by everything in life, and this is one of those fascin- fascinating areas.

   4. TFTim Ferriss1:01:17

      I wanna be respectful of your time. I know we don't have a whole lot left, so I'd love to just ask a few of the audience favorite rapid-fire questions. Uh, and then I know you're bouncing from point to point right now around the world, so I'll let you get going. Uh, but the, the first question

8. 1:01:34 – 1:03:19

   Books Richard gifts or recommends

   1. TFTim Ferriss1:01:34

      is: what is the book or books you've given most as a gift, and why? Uh, outside, outside of your own, uh, books, are there any particular books that you've given or recommended to others the most?

   2. RBRichard Branson1:01:48

      Well, climate change is something which I've, I've spent a lot of time on. I would highly recommend a book called, by Tim Flannery called The Weather Makers, which, uh, was one, one of the books that opened my eyes to the problems that we have in the world. I'm, I'm just reading, um, um, Homo Deus, which, which I find is, um, uh, you know, um, and I g- I will carry on to read Sapiens, his, uh, his first book, um, or one of his first books, and I just love, love, you know, uh, you know, love the style of his writing and, and, you know, I love books where you're learning, you're learning something from them and, um, uh, rather than if I, if I want to... If I want fiction, I'll, I'll get a good film out. Um, so, um, if I'm, if I'm reading books, I like to read books which have got some substance. I love autobiographies or biographies as well.

   3. TFTim Ferriss1:02:37

      Do you read most of your books as text, or do you listen to audiobooks? I'm just thinking back to the challenges you had with dyslexia as, as a younger person. Have you, uh, learned to cope with those and now read mostly text, or is audio something that you use much?

   4. RBRichard Branson1:02:53

      Um, I have largely coped with these things now and enjoy, you know, a, a good solid [laughs] book with, a hardback book. I'm just waiting, I'm just doing my own audiobook for, uh, Finding My Virginity. It take- takes a long time doing them. [laughs]

   5. TFTim Ferriss1:03:09

      Takes a long time, yeah.

   6. RBRichard Branson1:03:10

      Uh, yeah.

   7. TFTim Ferriss1:03:10

      [laughs]

   8. RBRichard Branson1:03:11

      And, um, uh, so, um, but, but anyway, I know that more and more people do enjoy audiobooks, so it's, I'm sure it's worthwhile.

9. 1:03:19 – 1:04:45

   What new belief, behavior, or habit has most improved Richard’s life?

   1. TFTim Ferriss1:03:19

      In the last, let's just call it five years or so, what new belief, behavior, or habit has most improved your life? Or it, what, what habit has improved your life? Could be any new belief, behavior, or habit that has, uh, markedly improved your life.

   2. RBRichard Branson1:03:35

      If we could go back a bit further [laughs] than the last five years, I think, I think-

   3. TFTim Ferriss1:03:38

      Oh, yeah, we can, no, we can go back. We can go back as far as you like.

   4. RBRichard Branson1:03:40

      Yeah.

   5. TFTim Ferriss1:03:40

      Absolutely.

   6. RBRichard Branson1:03:41

      One of the, one of the best things my parents taught me, I'm going back a long way, uh, if I ever said anything ill about anybody, um, they would, um, sit me in front of the mirror and, um, for 10 minutes and in order to sort of let me know how badly it reflected on me. So, uh, you know, I like to think I've, I've never s- gen- you know, I've generally n- never spoken ill about other people, and I think that's been one of the, one of the, you know, best bits of advice that I've ever given, uh, sorry, I've ever received or, and, and obviously then given. Archbishop Tutu, who, uh, chaired The Elders, which is an organization that we've run for, for 10 years now, um, uh, you know, he was the epitome of forgiveness with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa, um, w- when, um, Nelson Mandela, you know, took over power and, um, you know, I think just, you know, people, nations, you know, uh, should try to, we should all try to run based on that philosophy. Um, and I think w- w- the world would be a happier place if that,

10. 1:04:45 – 1:06:21

    Key lessons from Nelson Mandela

    1. RBRichard Branson1:04:45

       if that happened.

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:04:46

       You, you mentioned Nelson Mandela. This is clearly not one of my, uh, stock rapid-fire questions, but, uh, I've, I've heard you refer to Nelson as a mentor. Uh, are there any key lessons or takeaways or memorable sentences or anything that come to mind when you think of your interactions with Nelson Mandela?

    3. RBRichard Branson1:05:07

       Well, you know, I was lucky enough to, um, get to know him very well over the years, even to the extent that, uh, on July the 18th, we shared a birthday and, and he would ring me every single birthday to wish me a happy birthday and, you know, I remember, yeah, the sadness when I didn't get that call not so many years ago. You know, he had an absolute joy for life and, um, you know, he would dance, he would smile, he would embrace everybody, but he had a, a tough side to him as well and, um, I remember one lunch I had with him, uh, early on in our relationship where, um, you know, I'd been warned that he was always trying to, uh, extract money, uh, for, for good causes. So, you know, we had the first course, then we had the second course, then we had the pudding, and we were onto the coffee, and I thought, "My God, I've got away with it." And, um-

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:05:57

       [laughs]

    5. RBRichard Branson1:05:58

       And, and, [laughs] and then, and then he turns to me and says, "Ah, Richard, um, last week I had lunch with Bill Gates and, uh, he gave me $50 million for such and such a cause." [laughs] And, um, anyway, so he did not miss an opportunity. Yeah, yeah, many, uh, uh, I've, I've, I've not... Apart from maybe Archbishop Tutu, I've, I've really never met and haven't met anybody a- as extraordinary in my lifetime as

11. 1:06:21 – 1:08:04

    How Richard deals with overwhelm or lost focus

    1. RBRichard Branson1:06:21

       him.

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:06:22

       When you yourself feel, and, uh, maybe you don't feel this, but, uh, I'll, I'll assume for the moment that you do, uh, when you've felt overwhelmed or un- unfocused, uh, or if you feel like you've l- temporarily lost your focus, w- what do you do? Or what have you found to help? Uh, you know, what questions do you ask yourself? Is there, uh, w- in, in those cases, what have you done historically that is, that has been helpful?

    3. RBRichard Branson1:06:51

       You know, I personally believe that the majority of people who Have down moments in their lives, they can, they, they can actually trace it back quite often to alcohol. You know, so the, uh, perhaps the only days of my life that I feel lethargic is, you know, if instead of having, you know, two glasses at nighttime, I had five or six. And if I find that's happened, you know, on more than one or two occasions, I then give up, uh, completely for, you know, a month or two and, uh, and feel absolutely fantastic, of course. And realize that I'm never going to drink another to- touch of alcohol again until I actually do. And, and, um, you know, fortunately I, you know, you know, I'm so busy that I, that I just can't afford to let myself down, um, too often. But my guess is that, um, you, for the, for the vast majority of people, you know, if you can, if you can be high on life and fit and healthy and, uh, and you know, if you, if you do find that, um, that something like alcohol is, uh, is, is, is just beginning to, beginning to dri- to g- go a bit too far, uh, you know, being high on life is just so wonderful com- you know, so.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:08:03

       [laughs]

12. 1:08:04 – 1:09:36

    “Consuming alcohol is borrowing happiness from tomorrow” —Matt Mullenweg

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:08:04

       Uh, for a friend of mine, a entrepreneur named Matt Mullenweg, he's been on this podcast as well. He's the CEO of a company called Automattic, uh, which is behind WordPress, which powers around 37% of the internet right now. And, uh, he told me at one point that he had learned something long ago, which was, uh, alcohol is borrowing happiness [laughs] from tomorrow. [laughs] And, uh, certainly seems to be the case.

    2. RBRichard Branson1:08:29

       I think that those are b- those are, those are beautiful words and, and they're very, very, very true words. Um, you know, I mean, my, my, you know, my, my son's just had a year o- off alcohol and, and, you know, look, uh, you can tell he's just so high on life. He's just enjoying, enjoying it like, uh, like he's never enjoyed it before. And, and, you know, so like, you know, if you could do it in moderation, that's great. Uh, you know, I tell the story in the book, there was one, one night in, when, when we, when, when we won the, um, Grand Prix in Melbourne and, um, anyway, I let my hair down to such an extent that it would've made, um, uh, the film Hangover look like a, a children's, children's film.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:09:11

       [laughs]

    4. RBRichard Branson1:09:11

       Uh, and, um, and, [laughs] and, uh, the next day I woke up and anyway, I ga- I gave, I gave up for six months. And, um, so it, you know, it doesn't happen to me too often. Um, but, um, but I think, you know, gen- generally it's, yeah, generally when the, the, you know, that's the one area that, uh, I think a lot of, a lot of people who do, you know, run into problems in lives is, is just from sligh-

13. 1:09:36 – 1:11:37

    How Richard goes off alcohol

    1. RBRichard Branson1:09:36

       slightly too much.

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:09:37

       Now, w- during those periods when you go off of alcohol, do you avoid circumstances where other people are drinking? Or is there something that you say to people if you are in those circumstances? How do you ensure that you don't have just that one drink that then triggers more drinks if you're trying to take time away from alcohol?

    3. RBRichard Branson1:09:55

       My trick is simply to have, uh, cranberry and soda in a champagne glass. [laughs]

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:10:02

       [laughs]

    5. RBRichard Branson1:10:02

       People don't know, you know, then, you know, we, I, I, I just will take cranberry and soda in a champagne glass and... But I think, look, I think for a lot of people, y- especially when people first give up anything like that, drugs, alcohol, they need to walk away completely for a while. Fortunately, you know, I haven't gotten, you know, I've never let myself get to that s- that, that stage, but, you know, but I think that, you know, the best advice is, is to, you know, get, you know, get, get it, you know, just, you know, just say, "I, I need to go to bed early tonight," and, and walk, walk away. Um, otherwise it's very difficult I think for people to stay with it. Are you s- are you, are you somebody who drinks or not, or not?

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:10:40

       Uh, I don't drink a whole lot. I do enjoy wine.

    7. RBRichard Branson1:10:43

       Yeah.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:10:44

       Uh, fortunately, I, I don't feel like I've had any, um, issues with alcohol.

    9. RBRichard Branson1:10:48

       Yeah.

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:10:48

        Although genetically my family seems to have that predisposition. I certainly have a fair amount of alcoholism in my extended family, so I do, I think about it quite a bit. I, I can s- I can tell that I think I have the potential to abuse it, but I haven't up to this point.

    11. RBRichard Branson1:11:05

        I think that you and I, you and I have such fascinating lives that, that, um, you know, that, that, that is the best way [laughs] of keeping, you know, keeping these sorts of things in check. You know, we just, you know, we want to, we, we, every day is so interesting that, um, you're just not gonna wanna waste, waste a day by, you know, let- let- letting something like that take over your life.

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:11:24

        Right. No, definitely. And, uh, just, just two more questions from me. This is one, uh, really intended just to give people a window into how you cope with some of the harder times.

14. 1:11:37 – 1:13:48

    Richard’s favorite failure

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:11:37

       Uh, do you have a favorite failure of yours? And what I mean by that is, uh, how has a failure or an apparent failure set you up for later success? Are there any particular examples that come to mind?

    2. RBRichard Branson1:11:50

       Yeah, I mean, look, I think on the, um, uh, on the adventure side, um, you know, the first time we crossed the Atlantic and, um, a boat, we were trying to break the record for the fastest crossing of the, of the Atlantic and getting the Blue Ribbon back and, um, you know, and we sank and then the next day we built a new, another boat, and we, we were successful. And the British people love people who are un- are underdogs and, uh, and it taught me that actually, you know, failing and then being successful most likely [laughs] was better than just going out there and being successful the first time round. I mean, the, the overcoming difficulties, uh, the public almost preferred than someone who's just successful the first time round. Maybe, maybe not so much in America, but in, in Britain anyway. I suppose the most notable business failure that we've ever had was taking on Coca-Cola, uh, with Virgin Cola. And for a while it really looked like we were going to, um, topple Coke and Pepsi, and we were outselling them in the UK. Uh, the Virgin brand resonated. The, the, the, you know, people loved the drink. I mean- And then, you know, we landed in Times Square with the, with the, with the Sherman tank and, you know, we, we, um, took on Coke in their homeland in America, and Coke decided to fire back, and they filled up, um, DC-10s full of money and hitmen and hitwomen, and they, they landed in the territories that we had launched, and they... Suddenly, Virgin Cola started disappearing from all, all these shelves. And I think the lesson I learned from that was, you know, if I'm going to take on a Goliath, I've got to be, we've got to be different, and we've got to be much better than they are. And, you know, with a cola, you're just another cola. You're not... You, you can't be fundamentally different. You can be cheaper, but you can't be fundamentally different. So anything we've launched since then, we've got- we've only launched new businesses if, if we, if we can make a fundamental difference.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:13:44

       I love it. Yeah, that's so, so important to underscore,

15. 1:13:48 – 1:16:23

    What would Richard’s billboard say?

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:13:48

       I think. This is the last rapid-fire question. If you, if you could have a giant billboard anywhere with anything on it, so me- and this is metaphorically speaking, so getting a message out to millions or billions of people, what would it say and why? It could be a few words, could be a paragraph, could be a, a quote you live your life by, yours or someone else's. It... D- does anything come to mind if you could get a message out to billions of people, what would you... what, what might you put on that billboard?

    2. RBRichard Branson1:14:16

       Trouble is, I think I, I'm gonna sound like a, a, a, um, a model, um, on stage, um-

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:14:22

       [laughs]

    4. RBRichard Branson1:14:24

       ... about, about-

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:14:24

       Admit, admit that-

    6. RBRichard Branson1:14:25

       [laughs] about the, the need to bring peace to, peace to the world. Uh, and, and, and-

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:14:29

       [laughs]

    8. RBRichard Branson1:14:29

       ... therefore I will in, in- instead go back to be a businessman, which is... You know, I think just something like nothing ventured, nothing gained. I think, I think that in life if people, uh, you know, if people, you know, try things and, uh, stick their neck out, they're gonna have a lot more fun than, than if they s- sit at home watching other people do it. And, um, so yeah. So I think that old, that old quote, nothing ventured, nothing gained, is important. Having said that, you know, I've, I've, um, you know, I've been involved for 10 years now in this wonderful group called The Elders and, um, and Nelson Mandela set it up, and it's now run by Kofi Annan, and I, and I really do believe that, uh, in my, in our lifetime, I've seen so many unnecessary wars. I've seen the Vietnamese War, I've seen the Iraq War, the Libyan War, and these were all incredibly unjust wars which have, you know, gone on to s- spawn awful things like ISIS and so on, which would not have happened, uh, if it wasn't for actually the West, uh, taking it upon themselves to interfere in other countries' business and, and killing and maiming thousands of people. And, you know, we, we, we, we must make sure that we don't have any wars in the future, and I think it, it, it takes business people, uh, it takes society, it takes all of us to really make sure that our politicians never, never take us down that path again. I mean, one of the saddest things I think about the invasion of Iraq was, you know, yes, there were thousands of people on the streets. There should have been hundreds and hundreds of thousands, just like, uh, the Vietnamese War to, to stop such a foolish, um, excursion. You know, all, all conflict should be able to be resolved by negotiation and, you know, even if you don't get exactly what you want out of it, um, that is better than, better than the, the, than all, all the bloodshed that flows from,

16. 1:16:23 – 1:21:44

    The failure of the War on Drugs (and the solution)

    1. RBRichard Branson1:16:23

       from conflict.

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:16:24

       I, uh, I think that's a perfect place to wrap up because it ties in so much. I think that for people listening, whether you want to leave your mark on the world as a businessperson, as a philanthropist, there's actually a very common skill set when you look at the highest levels. You need to be able to negotiate. You need to know how to deal make. Uh, and you, you were talking about, say, ventures, nothing ventured, nothing gained, which also ties nicely into adventure if people look at the etymology. I mean, these are very closely related concepts. Uh, and I'm just so thrilled that, uh, we were able to find the time to jump on the phone, Richard, and have this conversation, and, uh, certainly recommend, uh, because I will be reading it along with everyone else, that people take a look at Finding My Virginity. Uh, I can't wait to pick up where I left off i- in, uh, [laughs] in the previous installment. Is there anything that... anything else you would like to recommend to everyone listening, to the millions of people hearing this, uh, that they do or try, ask themselves, any- anything at all, any next action or anything else that you'd like to, to leave with, um, as parting words?

    3. RBRichard Branson1:17:41

       Well, I've thoroughly enjoyed talking to you [laughs] and, and, and, um, um, would like, would, um, obviously, uh, look forward, look forward to seeing you again soon. I was just thinking on, um, we were talking about alcohol. I mean, no, I think the, I think the converse is true. I mean, and, and, um, to, to, uh, what we were talking about on alcohol and, and, and that is that, I mean, if you say take the, take the war on drugs, um, that's been going on now for 50 years. As a businessman, I would have cl- closed down the war on drugs 49 years ago. I mean, it's been an abject failure. And yet governments have continued to, to perpetuate this war on drugs, which has resulted in, you know, hundreds of thousands of people being put in prison, yet hundreds of thousands of casualties. It's resulted in, you know, 390 billion a year going to the underworld, and yet there is, there is a simple answer, and that is if you, uh, treat drugs as a health problem, not a criminal problem, and you help people with drug problems, countries that do that are getting on top of it. So, you know, as... and, and we as a g- you know, business leaders are trying to educate governments into seeing, you know, opening their eyes and saying, "Look, you know, if Portugal can do this," say, "for heroin takers, you, America, should do the same thing." They, they had a, a massive heroin epidemic in the year 2000, and You know, by embracing those heroin addicts and helping them, uh, become normal members of society again, they managed to solve the problem. America now has the biggest, um, heroin epidemic in, in, in history, and, uh, and yet the way they're dealing with it is the same old, old War on Drugs. And, um, the way to deal with it is, you know, you, you ask these people to come forward, you, you help them with their fixes initially, um, you, you supply them with a product, you stop them having to break and enter into people's homes, y- and, and you make sure that, uh, when they're ready to, uh, wean themselves off, that you help them wean themselves off, um, and you make them me- useful members of society again. You know, I'm part of something called the Global Drug Commission, and, uh, we've got 15 people who used to be presidents of their country coping hands on it, and we've done a lot of studies on, on, on, on this subject. And, you know, we believe that every single drug should be regulated and taxed and, uh, and warnings should be very firmly put on these drugs in the same way you have warnings on cigarettes or warnings on alcohol. Um, but, but that is the way to overcome the, the, you know, this problem, not to carry on having, having a war on drugs.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:20:11

       I think this is tremendously important, and I'm really glad that you brought it up. Just having seen my best friend growing up, I grew up on, uh, in rural Long Island. My, my best friend a few years ago died of an opiate overdose, and, uh, it's, it's a hugely important problem that is not being-- It's being addressed in the most counterproductive of ways, as you noted. And, um, I'm actually-- This is probably something we could, we could talk for a long time about, but I'm involved with supporting research at places like Johns Hopkins, looking at even using certain things, uh, like, say, ps- psilocybin for the treatment of certain forms of addiction and end-of-life anxiety and so on. But the important component of that, or one of the components of that being looking at how to reschedule and properly supervise and regulate these compounds as opposed to immediately criminalizing them and just compounding the problem with another hundred problems, uh, that, that end up fixing nothing. So I, I, I very much appreciate you bringing that up.

    5. RBRichard Branson1:21:19

       Yeah. Well, thank you. I think, um, yeah, I mean, it is, it, it, it's sad and strange that, um, yeah, that ye- year after year goes by and, um, it's, it, it's-- You just-- If you talk to gov- to people in, uh, who are, you know, in, in positions of power, they, they actually individually, they know [chuckles] what the right thing is to do, they just don't have the courage to do it. And, um, a- and, and we just need a little bit more courage, I think, with some of our politicians.

17. 1:21:44 – 1:27:39

    Parting thoughts and where to find Richard

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:21:44

       Well, Richard, uh, thank you so much for being an, an agent of change and also sharing your stories in such a way that you inspire other people to do the same. And, uh, I'm, I'm really excited to see what other dents you put in the world. And, uh, for people listening, they can find you on social media, Richard Branson everywhere. Certainly, they should check out Finding My Virginity. And, uh, to people listening, I will link to everything, including the, the new book in the show notes at tim.blog/podcast. And Richard, you have, uh, so many projects and so many things to keep you high on life, so I will let you get back to it. But thank you so much for taking the time to chat today.

    2. RBRichard Branson1:22:27

       Thanks so much, Tim. And c- once again, congratulations. Talk to you soon.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:22:31

       All right. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks. [upbeat music] Hey, guys. This is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up [chuckles] in the, uh, the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I have read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com. That's fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out, and just drop in your email, and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it. This episode is brought to you by WordPress.com. I love WordPress. I have used it for so many years. It's my go-to platform for blogging and creating websites. I use WordPress.com for everything every day. My site, tim.blog, is built on it. The websites for my books, including Tools of Titans, Tribe of Mentors, it's all on WordPress.com. And the founder, Matt Mullenweg, one of my close friends, has appeared on this show many times. Just search Matt Mullenweg, Tequila Ferris for quite an exciting time. [chuckles] Whether you're looking to create a personal blog, a business site, or both, you can make a really big impact right out of the box when you build on WordPress.com. And you'll be in good company. It's used by The New Yorker, Jay-Z, Beyoncé, FiveThirtyEight, TechCrunch, TED, CNN, and Time, just to name a handful. And one of my friends at Google, she'll remain nameless, has told me [chuckles] that WordPress.com offers the, quote, "best out of the box SEO imaginable," end quote. And it's one of the many reasons that nearly thirty percent of the internet is run on WordPress. You do not need experience or to hire someone. That's perhaps the best part. WordPress.com guides you through the entire experience. They have hundreds of designs and templates that you can use. And it's easy to get started. There's no need to worry about security, upgrades, hosting. any of that. They offer 24/7 support, and they're very, very responsive. If you have questions, they get right back to you. And this allows you to create the highest quality with the least amount of headache and friction. So if you're building a website, period, when my friends come to me and ask what I use, what I recommend they use, the answer is WordPress.com. So check it out. If you want to get started today, learn more with a 15% discount off any new plan. Go to WordPress.com/tim to create your website and find the plan that's right for you. So learn more. Take a look. WordPress.com/tim for 15% off a brand new website. Check it out. This episode is brought to you by Ascent Protein, the cleanest, least processed protein I've ever consumed, and I have tried just about everything. Since well before The 4-Hour Body, I've started my day with 20 to 30 grams of protein. First thing, that has been part of my routine. But I don't always have the time or necessarily the desire to cook an entire meal. So what to do? Protein powders can be a fast way to get this protein need met, but most products are full of crap. They're bleached, they have excess sugar, terrible artificial sweeteners, or just straightforward low-grade, low-quality protein. Ascent contains zero artificial ingredients, and the parent company is actually a cheese manufacturer, so they produce their own native proteins. It's really fascinating, and I've looked at their processing. It takes, or it took them about five years to develop. You can mix the protein in as little as four ounces without any clumps or issues of mixability whatsoever, and they nailed the taste. They tested, for instance, for the chocolate version, 282 different versions. They put a lot of money and a lot of time into R&D for this particular product. And they have both whey and micellar casein. So if you want to, say, improve body composition and recovery overnight, slow release, you can take the micellar casein. Or in my case, whey protein, I would take post-workout, for instance, or in the morning. So check it out. These guys are really fascinating. Visit ascentprotein.com forward slash Tim. That's A-S-C-E-N-T-P-R-O-T-E-I-N dot com. Ascent, like first ascent going up. Ascentprotein.com forward slash Tim. And you will receive 20% off your entire purchase. If you want a very quick 20 to 30 gram dose to start your day or after workout, this is a fantastic option. It is arguably the best that I've found. So again, check it out. Ascentprotein.com forward slash Tim.

Episode duration: 1:27:56