Steve Young — From Super Bowl MVP to Managing Billions

1. 0:00 – 0:41

   Preview.

   1. SYSteve Young0:00

      You've been fear-based." And I was like, "Oh my gosh." And you just wanted to ex- excise it. Now, it doesn't happen overnight.

   2. TFTim Ferriss0:06

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SYSteve Young0:07

      But I remember soon after that, that season ended and the whole off-season. And, and so the next year we're playing the Cowboys. They're the best team in the league, right? And I think to myself, "This is where you find out, right?" And I remember running up to Troy Aikman, and we're warming up, and he's a friend, and he's a quarterback for the Cowboys. And I'm like, "Troy, it's so great that you're here, man, because I'm on this quest to see how good I can get, and I can only find out against the best, and so I'm so glad that you're here."

   4. TFTim Ferriss0:34

      [laughs]

   5. SYSteve Young0:35

      And I remember Troy looking at me like, "Fricking weirdo. What's, what's wrong with you?"

   6. TFTim Ferriss0:38

      [laughs]

   7. SYSteve Young0:40

      But that's what I

2. 0:41 – 4:06

   The full circle of Josh Waitzkin.

   1. SYSteve Young0:41

      was about.

   2. TFTim Ferriss0:42

      Steve, thank you so much for making the time.

   3. SYSteve Young0:43

      You bet, Tim.

   4. TFTim Ferriss0:44

      It is so nice to see you.

   5. SYSteve Young0:45

      It's an honor, man. Hopefully I can add something to the amazing stuff that you've done for a long time. So-

   6. TFTim Ferriss0:50

      Oh, I-

   7. SYSteve Young0:50

      We'll see. We'll see. It's yet to be determined.

   8. TFTim Ferriss0:53

      I am sure that'll be the case. And I have to give you... We'll first point out the pink elephant in the room. Welcome to my temple of Tim. [laughs]

   9. SYSteve Young0:58

      I love it. I love it.

   10. TFTim Ferriss0:59

       [laughs] Which I-

   11. SYSteve Young1:00

       I've, I bowed to the-

   12. TFTim Ferriss1:01

       [laughs] Welcome to the-

   13. SYSteve Young1:02

       To the greatness.

   14. TFTim Ferriss1:02

       [laughs] And, and also, this has been, for me, two or three years in the making, sort of a slow build, because a friend of mine sent me a Bloomberg article about you that talked about-

   15. SYSteve Young1:16

       Oh, right

   16. TFTim Ferriss1:16

       ... the, the many chapters of Steve Young.

   17. SYSteve Young1:19

       Uh.

   18. TFTim Ferriss1:20

       And at that time, as is true now, I've been incredibly interested in people who successfully navigate these phase shifts.

   19. SYSteve Young1:30

       Mm.

   20. TFTim Ferriss1:31

       And I do not follow football. I have a lot of respect for football. God knows every time I see one of the car crashes, AKA collisions, I think that one hit and I would be done, right? I don't know how you guys do that.

   21. SYSteve Young1:41

       It's insane. I, even now as I watch now, I'm like, "Did I actually do that?" [laughs]

   22. TFTim Ferriss1:45

       It's, it's just remarkable how durable players are. I, I have no idea how you guys do it. But what I've been hoping to dig into is the psycho-emotional-spiritual-mental side of things.

   23. SYSteve Young1:59

       Right. That's football.

   24. TFTim Ferriss2:01

       That's football.

   25. SYSteve Young2:01

       Weirdly.

   26. TFTim Ferriss2:01

       That's football.

   27. SYSteve Young2:02

       Yeah. It's crazy. We'll go on for that for a little bit too.

   28. TFTim Ferriss2:05

       Yeah. Yeah, we'll definitely get into that. And I thought we would start... Actually, I'll start with a wave hello. I don't think you guys know each other, but you might have had a connection decades ago. A friend of mine who's a bit of a recluse named Josh Waitzkin, he was the basis—he would hate me to introduce him this way, but [inhales] he was the basis for Searching for Bobby Fischer, the book and then the movie-

   29. SYSteve Young2:26

       No way

   30. TFTim Ferriss2:27

       ... Chess Prodigies.
3. 4:06 – 10:04

   The Stephen Covey plane ride that changed everything.

   1. TFTim Ferriss4:06

      But I'm going to invoke a name that was very meaningful for me in terms of writing way back in the day, and that is Stephen Covey. So could you describe-

   2. SYSteve Young4:17

      Wow

   3. TFTim Ferriss4:18

      ... meeting Stephen Covey-

   4. SYSteve Young4:20

      Wow

   5. TFTim Ferriss4:20

      ... and who Stephen Covey is?

   6. SYSteve Young4:23

      In the '80s, '90s, even the aughts, I guess you'd call them, he was writing books, Seven Habits books.

   7. TFTim Ferriss4:29

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SYSteve Young4:30

      And really, I'd known his kids, but I'd never met him. And I was... I gotta give a little background.

   9. TFTim Ferriss4:38

      And you had known his kids through the, through the church?

   10. SYSteve Young4:40

       At school, yeah. No, at school, at BYU.

   11. TFTim Ferriss4:41

       At school.

   12. SYSteve Young4:42

       Like, I'd met them-

   13. TFTim Ferriss4:42

       Mm-hmm

   14. SYSteve Young4:42

       ... and they played football and so, but I'd never really met him. I got, give a little background here. So I'm, I'm playing for the 49ers. Joe Montana and I had been... We were on the same team, [laughs] and I, we both wanted to play, and he was the king, and I was this kid that wanted to... I didn't want to just sit there, you know? I finally got my chance to play in 1991, and it didn't go great.

   15. TFTim Ferriss5:04

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SYSteve Young5:04

       And I always joke about walking around town and, you know, the, like, and how I describe it is, you know, telling people, "No, I think he did throw an incomplete pass once." You know what I mean? "I think he did lose a game. In fact, I think he's thrown an interception or two." Like, uh, 'cause the memory of someone who's great-

   17. TFTim Ferriss5:21

       Mm-hmm

   18. SYSteve Young5:21

       ... is only great, and here's this kid trying to live up to all of that. And I was pouring myself into it. I mean, I was over-indexed on trying to figure out how to... And all I could look around was everyone who wasn't.

   19. TFTim Ferriss5:37

       Mm-hmm.

   20. SYSteve Young5:37

       And how everything was my fault, and everything, no matter what happened, I went anywhere, it was like, "Well, yeah, Steve Young sucks," you know? "It's, uh, it's Steve Young's problem." So, and I, I found myself, middle of the season, middling around, and I noticed that I was, like, depressed. I was miserable. Felt like I was, like, at a bottom of a hole. We lost a game against the Raiders in front of 100,000 people at the LA Coliseum. Jerry Rice is open in the end zone to win the game, and I never... He's literally waving. Like, you know? [laughs] And I didn't see him. And it was just like the epitome of, like, everything that could go bad. And so I was miserable. I'm, I'm... I, I need to give you that backstory-

   21. TFTim Ferriss6:14

       Mm-hmm

   22. SYSteve Young6:15

       ... 'cause you have to know my state of mind. I was miserable, and I got on a plane, 'cause Tuesday is a day off in the NFL. So Monday night I got on a plane, went to Salt Lake City to see my brother, 'cause he was in University of Utah Med School. I was like, "Man, maybe he can, I don't know, help me get out of this funk. I mean, this is just terrible. I'm not sleeping well. It's just miserable." And I walk [laughs] around the town with him. He's like, "Steve, I got two kids and broke in medical school. Like, your life s- looks sweet to me." So [laughs]

   23. TFTim Ferriss6:41

       [laughs]

   24. SYSteve Young6:41

       He didn't help very much. And I was like st- uh... I don't know. I had to tell him I didn't know how I was gonna get to Christmas. So I get on the plane to come back, sit down, and Steve Covey's sitting there, and he says, "Hello." And I'm like, "Oh my gosh. It's been... You know, I've always wanted to meet you." And w- and he goes... He, he asks a simple question. "How you doing?" And I'm in a state of mind where I was pretty, uh, vulnerable. I s- just told him, kind of recited everything that I just said to you and how m- kind of miserable I was. And, uh, I got done with it. You know, f- 25, 30 minutes later and he goes, "Huh. Wow. Man, I, I can feel that. Like, I can feel all of that, the expectations, the... How tough it is to not get the help that you think that you need and things that are working against you and... Man, can I ask you a couple questions?" And I go, "Yeah." He goes, "Your owner, Eddie DeBartolo, tell me about him." "Oh my gosh. He's the only owner in football that ever saw players as partners. I mean, he's amazing." And I went on about that. And then he said, "What about your coach, Bill Walsh?" And he's like, "Yeah, he's, like, a guy that talks about hydration and nutrition and sleep and mental health, and you talk about partnership. No one's doing what he's doing. His West Coast offense, that guy is amazing." And he goes, "Yeah, I'd, I'd heard that. I'd, I'd love to meet them both, you know, 'cause let me ask you one last question. I- is Joe Montana on the team?" I'm like, "Yeah, he's hurt, and that's kind of the problem." And he's like, "Well, if you had to ask him for mentorship, go ask him questions to help your game, could you do it?" I'm like, "Yeah, I could." And he goes, " [exhales] All right. Well, I want you to know what I do. I travel the world looking for platforms, companies, organizations that create the ability for the humans on the platform to see how good they can get, and iterate, and find out. Because that's, that's what life sh- should be about. As I travel the world, I'm always looking for it, and I, I'd love to talk to those guys about their platform. But I gotta step back, Steve, and tell you that from my perspective, the platform that you're on, the th- the place that you are, I think might be the greatest one that I've ever seen."

   25. TFTim Ferriss9:04

       [laughs]

   26. SYSteve Young9:06

       And I was like, "Wait. Did you d- didn't you hear me? Like, bro, this is miserable."

   27. TFTim Ferriss9:13

       Things are terrible.

   28. SYSteve Young9:14

       Things are terrible.

   29. TFTim Ferriss9:14

       [laughs]

   30. SYSteve Young9:15

       But it stung me. It, like, went through my heart. It was like, oh my gosh. My first thought was, I think I might have screwed this whole thing up. Like, oh. 'Cause to have him say that truth to me. He goes, "Let me ask you a qui- one last question," 'cause it's scary. He goes, "I always wonder if people are willing to take the chance to find out how good they are."
4. 10:04 – 12:53

   Overcoming victimization: The hole you dig, then jump into.

   1. SYSteve Young10:04

      gosh." I realized right there that the hole I was in, that I thought so many people had dug, that I had dug it. I had no idea that I dug the hole.

   2. TFTim Ferriss10:17

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SYSteve Young10:18

      And I had thought that everyone pushed me in, and I didn't realize that I had jumped in.

   4. TFTim Ferriss10:24

      Hmm.

   5. SYSteve Young10:25

      And so it was that... You know, we talk about victimization for a long time, 'cause it's such an important thing to ferret out in your own life over and over again.

   6. TFTim Ferriss10:32

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SYSteve Young10:32

      Like, never stop. It was the realization that I had played the victim and had jumped in a hole, dug it and jumped in, and I am the author of it.

   8. TFTim Ferriss10:43

      Hmm.

   9. SYSteve Young10:43

      Like, that's what the shock was. Like, I authored this. And, and I remember getting off the plane as if I was transformed. I don't wanna say it lightly. It was as if I now knew if I was gonna do anything, I was gonna be about this. And I remember not sleeping well that night, but for a different reason. I thought, "Oh my gosh, I think I've screwed this up enough," that on Wednesday mornings when you get fired in the NFL. And I'm like... I'd heard rumors about maybe getting benched and I'm like, "Oh crap, don't tell me that I have screwed this up so bad that I don't get a chance to go fix it."

   10. TFTim Ferriss11:21

       Hmm.

   11. SYSteve Young11:22

       And I screamed down at practice the next day as energized as ever. Like, "I've g- just please don't bench... Please give me another..." And I didn't get benched, and I did play, and, and I was about it. And it was fun because it, it's like something that's true, like truly true, like universally true. When it's that way, it, it doesn't waver.

   12. TFTim Ferriss11:42

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SYSteve Young11:42

       It doesn't... You don't have w- iterations of it.

   14. TFTim Ferriss11:45

       Right.

   15. SYSteve Young11:45

       Like, it's like, it's just true.

   16. TFTim Ferriss11:47

       You're not second-guessing.

   17. SYSteve Young11:47

       I don't have to worry about... Like, a- it is... And he said, "It's not gonna be..." Like, people are really afraid. Like, it's hard to find out how good you are, 'cause you might find out you're not very [laughs] nearly as good as you thought you were.

   18. TFTim Ferriss11:58

       Mm-hmm.

   19. SYSteve Young11:59

       You gotta make that okay, and that now I'm gonna be... iterate and find out- How good I can get.

   20. TFTim Ferriss12:03

       Hmm.

   21. SYSteve Young12:04

       So it's really about fear.

   22. TFTim Ferriss12:05

       Mm-hmm.

   23. SYSteve Young12:06

       And if you can lose that fear, and that's basically what you're dealing with, is a fear-based-

   24. TFTim Ferriss12:10

       Mm-hmm.

   25. SYSteve Young12:11

       You've been fear-based. And I was like, "Oh, my gosh," and you just wanted to ex- excise it. Now, it doesn't happen overnight.

   26. TFTim Ferriss12:17

       Mm-hmm.

   27. SYSteve Young12:18

       But I remember soon after that s- that season ended and the whole off season and, and so the next year we're playing the Cowboys. They're the best team in the league, right? And I think to myself, "This is where you find out, right?" And I remember running up to Troy Aikman, and we're warming up, and he's a friend, and he's a quarterback for the Cowboys, and I'm like, "Troy, it's so great that you're here, man, because I'm on this quest to see how good I can get, and I can only find out against the best, and so I'm so glad that you're here."

   28. TFTim Ferriss12:46

       [laughs]

   29. SYSteve Young12:46

       And I remember Troy looking at me like, "Fricking weirdo. What's, what's wrong with you?" [laughs]

   30. TFTim Ferriss12:51

       [laughs]
5. 12:53 – 17:58

   How taking ownership led Steve from rock bottom to NFL MVP in one season.

   1. SYSteve Young12:53

      And to finish the story, I think I have to finish it kinda honestly and authentically. I was MVP of the NFL that year.

   2. TFTim Ferriss13:00

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SYSteve Young13:00

      And you think back to being in the bottom of a hole, running to my brother to see if, like, I could get out of this depression, and it's just amazing to me the perspective, a truthful, universally authentic fact can make that kinda difference in somebody's life. I owe him the greatest debt, right?

   4. TFTim Ferriss13:21

      Hmm.

   5. SYSteve Young13:21

      Because you think about angels in your life-

   6. TFTim Ferriss13:23

      Yeah

   7. SYSteve Young13:23

      ... or people that show up. It was almost like It's a Wonderful Life moment. Like-

   8. TFTim Ferriss13:28

      [laughs]

   9. SYSteve Young13:28

      You know what I mean? Like-

   10. TFTim Ferriss13:29

       Yeah

   11. SYSteve Young13:29

       ... you almost think, "Was he really there or was I imagining, like, this guy that's sitting next to me?" So that's the Stephen Covey story.

   12. TFTim Ferriss13:35

       What a wild sliding doors moment, right? Just the happenstance of that interaction and how it changed things. It's so remarkable to reflect on.

   13. SYSteve Young13:45

       And it really never ended. Because it's true, I now seek out that victimization in my life, watch it for other people, try to help because it's such a nefarious-

   14. TFTim Ferriss13:57

       Mm-hmm

   15. SYSteve Young13:58

       ... common state of being.

   16. TFTim Ferriss14:01

       Yeah.

   17. SYSteve Young14:02

       And totally rationalized to, I always talk about the entropic world that we live in. It's, like, super transactional, eat what you kill, sweat in your brow. Like, it's all the conditions of the world. Like, victimization feels almost rational.

   18. TFTim Ferriss14:18

       Mm-hmm.

   19. SYSteve Young14:19

       But it's kinda death.

   20. TFTim Ferriss14:20

       Yeah.

   21. SYSteve Young14:21

       Right? And so that's the thing that I watch in my own... Like, I swear, you know. And that, that feeds to accountability. It feeds to who authors all this. You think that someone else is authoring it, but you continue to author it and don't take it, you know. That's what I was missing, right?

   22. TFTim Ferriss14:35

       Yeah.

   23. SYSteve Young14:36

       I'm, I'm actually... And so that's why the perspective was so powerful. I, to this day gives me little chills. Like, I'm so grateful. 'Cause I was about to walk down a path that was gonna be miserable.

   24. TFTim Ferriss14:50

       Mm-hmm.

   25. SYSteve Young14:50

       And I would have said, "It wasn't fair."

   26. TFTim Ferriss14:53

       Mm-hmm.

   27. SYSteve Young14:53

       You know? "How can anyone..." You know, "This is not right." You know, "I need another chance 'cause it w- you know, I want a better shot. No, I want people who will support me more," or, you know, you come up with all kinds of stuff, and that's what would've happened.

   28. TFTim Ferriss15:04

       Mm-hmm.

   29. SYSteve Young15:05

       And who knows where I may be, but yeah.

   30. TFTim Ferriss15:08

       Would've been a different life.
6. 17:58 – 22:41

   Interceptions and the truest truth about accountability.

   1. TFTim Ferriss17:58

      Mm-hmm.

   2. SYSteve Young17:59

      I'm using football to describe a lot of stuff that are very important concepts, but it's like when you throw an interception.

   3. TFTim Ferriss18:06

      And for people who don't know football, what does that mean?

   4. SYSteve Young18:08

      So I have the ball, I'm the quarterback. I drop back to pass to win the game.

   5. TFTim Ferriss18:13

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SYSteve Young18:13

      The last minute, the last seconds, the crowd is screaming with anticipation. 80,000 people, you can feel the emotion of like, "It's happening. We're gonna... We're winning this game." And then I throw it, and the other team, the defense that's on the field, they intercept it. They take it. And there's this moment where 80,000 people with all this anticipation is like, "Oh."

   7. TFTim Ferriss18:37

      Ah.

   8. SYSteve Young18:37

      Like, "Whoa," and sports is that cool because that's, that's hard to get those moments-

   9. TFTim Ferriss18:43

      Yeah

   10. SYSteve Young18:43

       ... where they're like binary moments where it's like... And then the emotional swing, like, to get that kind of a swing with-

   11. TFTim Ferriss18:50

       Sure

   12. SYSteve Young18:50

       ... 80,000 people, it's kind of crazy cool.

   13. TFTim Ferriss18:54

       Yeah.

   14. SYSteve Young18:54

       I can't believe I'm saying that 'cause it wasn't that cool at the moment.

   15. TFTim Ferriss18:56

       [laughs]

   16. SYSteve Young18:56

       But it was cra- it's crazy to feel that.

   17. TFTim Ferriss18:59

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SYSteve Young18:59

       Right? And I spent a long time with my teammates at that moment when they would look at me and say, "Hey, we watched you do this, and it felt like you threw it right to them."

   19. TFTim Ferriss19:13

       Hmm.

   20. SYSteve Young19:14

       Like, there's an underpinning of it, like, "We know you didn't do it on purpose, but kind of looks like you did." [laughs]

   21. TFTim Ferriss19:21

       [laughs]

   22. SYSteve Young19:21

       And so as a human behavior emotion, I'm like, "Oh, I gotta show them that, uh, uh... Like, this was a mess."

   23. TFTim Ferriss19:28

       Hmm.

   24. SYSteve Young19:28

       Like, you turned the wrong way, or you didn't block your guy, or something else happened.

   25. TFTim Ferriss19:32

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SYSteve Young19:32

       Mitigation.

   27. TFTim Ferriss19:33

       Right. That's the-

   28. SYSteve Young19:34

       Mitigation.

   29. TFTim Ferriss19:35

       That's the instinct

   30. SYSteve Young19:35

       That's... I, I, I take the, the banner-
7. 22:41 – 28:08

   What separates good from great quarterbacks: Adrenaline alchemy.

   1. TFTim Ferriss22:41

      And as a muggle, right, someone who's looking at football and I, I don't understand all of the technicality behind it and the strategy, but I respect the athleticism. I look at a quarterback and I wonder, if you were to try to explain it to someone like me who's a, a layperson per se, what separates good from great quarterbacks?

   2. SYSteve Young23:03

      [laughs]

   3. TFTim Ferriss23:03

      Are there any particular elements that you see consistently in great quarterbacks that are absent, not paid as much attention to or otherwise?

   4. SYSteve Young23:16

      Yeah.

   5. TFTim Ferriss23:16

      I mean, they could be physical, but I'm wondering if-

   6. SYSteve Young23:18

      Yeah

   7. TFTim Ferriss23:18

      ... if anything comes to mind.

   8. SYSteve Young23:19

      [laughs] There's not a long enough form for this.

   9. TFTim Ferriss23:22

      Yeah.

   10. SYSteve Young23:23

       'Cause think about it, how many very, very smart people have been looking into college to predict who can be great in the NFL? And h- there's no worse results-

   11. TFTim Ferriss23:35

       Yeah. [laughs]

   12. SYSteve Young23:36

       ... than trying to predict that.

   13. TFTim Ferriss23:37

       Trying to do that.

   14. SYSteve Young23:38

       And that's why, why is college not a great predictor?

   15. TFTim Ferriss23:42

       Yeah.

   16. SYSteve Young23:42

       You know what I mean? What's happening-

   17. TFTim Ferriss23:43

       Yeah

   18. SYSteve Young23:43

       ... in the NFL that's-

   19. TFTim Ferriss23:45

       What do you think? Is it something internal-

   20. SYSteve Young23:46

       So it's insane. So it's-

   21. TFTim Ferriss23:46

       ... like their ability to learn in a certain way? What is it?

   22. SYSteve Young23:49

       Okay, here, I, I've been trying to melt it down to something that people can just grab.

   23. TFTim Ferriss23:53

       Yeah.

   24. SYSteve Young23:53

       Like, this is the truth. One thing's for sure, human behavior, human mind... You know, I don't know what the right way to think about it, but when there's adrenaline and focus and pressure and opposition... I mean, how many games are ... someone's paid to actually screw you up, like physically. Like I c- I, I'm paid to grab you and throw you to the ground and m- you know, hurt, hurt you. [laughs] Like, you know what I mean? That's my j- I'm paid millions of dollars. So it's all in that moment, in that kind of dynamic, that you now have to ferret through... And I w- Tim, I wish everybody who loves football could stand with a helmet on, right? With... And at 6'4" or 6'3" or whatever, 6'2", whatever anyone, like, like Russell Wilson, 6, 5'10". Stand there and ferret through bodies in motion, the fastest, most athletic humans on Earth, on both sides, and try to figure out how to th- And that's why when you talk about the, the difference in the NFL is the speed.

   25. TFTim Ferriss25:03

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SYSteve Young25:03

       It's the athleticism, and your brain can't... A lot of times people's brain can't process that fast.

   27. TFTim Ferriss25:10

       Right.

   28. SYSteve Young25:10

       They were processing fine in college.

   29. TFTim Ferriss25:12

       Mm-hmm.

   30. SYSteve Young25:12

       They were processing great in high school, but it's just an elevation. Gladly for me, there's not a super pro.
8. 28:08 – 29:06

   Alex Honnold and the genetics of not panicking.

   1. TFTim Ferriss28:08

      I wonder if it's something, just thinking out loud, I interviewed someone named Alex Honnold on the podcast before he did his big run, which turned into a documentary called Free Solo, but he climbed-

   2. SYSteve Young28:20

      Oh, my

   3. TFTim Ferriss28:21

      ... I think it was El Cap. I can't remember the exact face.

   4. SYSteve Young28:23

      It was, and it's like-

   5. TFTim Ferriss28:24

      With no ropes

   6. SYSteve Young28:24

      ... it's insane.

   7. TFTim Ferriss28:25

      And so I interviewed him.

   8. SYSteve Young28:26

      I, I, I can't watch it.

   9. TFTim Ferriss28:27

      It's too-

   10. SYSteve Young28:28

       I can't

   11. TFTim Ferriss28:28

       ... I mean, my hands are sweating just talking about it.

   12. SYSteve Young28:29

       Honestly, I can't. My, my, honestly, I can't. I literally can't watch it.

   13. TFTim Ferriss28:32

       [laughs]

   14. SYSteve Young28:32

       I wanna watch it. I can't watch-

   15. TFTim Ferriss28:35

       Yeah

   16. SYSteve Young28:35

       ... life and death like that.

   17. TFTim Ferriss28:37

       His brain responds differently to-

   18. SYSteve Young28:40

       Exactly

   19. TFTim Ferriss28:40

       ... the circumstances.

   20. SYSteve Young28:41

       100%, and that's-

   21. TFTim Ferriss28:42

       Yeah

   22. SYSteve Young28:42

       ... the only way.

   23. TFTim Ferriss28:43

       Yeah.

   24. SYSteve Young28:43

       Because all of us watch it go, "Oh, no."

   25. TFTim Ferriss28:45

       Panic and fall.

   26. SYSteve Young28:46

       No way.

   27. TFTim Ferriss28:46

       That's, that's what happened.

   28. SYSteve Young28:47

       No way. Every grip-

   29. TFTim Ferriss28:48

       Yeah. [laughs]

   30. SYSteve Young28:49

       ... has to be life or death.
9. 29:06 – 31:56

   Learning to actually throw a football at BYU.

   1. TFTim Ferriss29:06

      Is there anything that when you look at your trajectory that was learnable or coachable that you absorbed by watching other people? Like, what did you improve most at? So there's a lot out of the box, right?

   2. SYSteve Young29:20

      It's really interesting.

   3. TFTim Ferriss29:20

      I mean, you were successful as a younger athlete, and read some great quotes from your dad [laughs] about this. But you were successful as a younger athlete. You seemed to have some hard wiring out of the box that was very helpful.

   4. SYSteve Young29:31

      Yeah.

   5. TFTim Ferriss29:32

      But you didn't just hit the ground running in the NFL and-

   6. SYSteve Young29:36

      No

   7. TFTim Ferriss29:36

      ... you were top of the game. There was something that improved, I'm wondering, or many things.

   8. SYSteve Young29:40

      So one fundamental thing had to happen, which was how to throw the football. It's not intuitive, kind of like golf.

   9. TFTim Ferriss29:47

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SYSteve Young29:47

       Golf is not i- Like, you think great golf swings, when you grab a club as an adult, you're not gonna do it right.

   11. TFTim Ferriss29:53

       Yeah.

   12. SYSteve Young29:54

       And as a kid, I grabbed a football, and because I didn't want to be embarrassed, I wanted it to spin-

   13. TFTim Ferriss29:59

       Mm-hmm

   14. SYSteve Young29:59

       ... perfectly. I would spin it out of my hand, and that's how I did it. But you can't get behind to throw it hard.

   15. TFTim Ferriss30:07

       Ah, I see.

   16. SYSteve Young30:08

       This was not something that was, like a s- deep, dark secret, but in Greenwich, Connecticut- So, and some, some people grab it, grab a golf club, grab a football and it's just like, "Oh yeah, that's how you must do it."

   17. TFTim Ferriss30:17

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SYSteve Young30:18

       That's not how I did it. And so I got to college. I'd faked my way into playing college quarterbacking without really understanding it, and Jim McMahon was the quarterback at the time at BYU. Incredible. Like, he w- second in the Heisman. Like, he was amazing. But he was righty and I was lefty, and I was like, "How is... He's throwing it different."

   19. TFTim Ferriss30:38

       Mm-hmm.

   20. SYSteve Young30:38

       And then when I realized that you have to, you turn... Instead of spinning it out, like to spin it, you actually go the other direction using the tension inside your arm as you hold it, and then just go in.

   21. TFTim Ferriss30:50

       Oh, wow.

   22. SYSteve Young30:50

       You actually spin it. It comes out and spins, but now you can throw it, like, with all your power.

   23. TFTim Ferriss30:56

       Right. Right.

   24. SYSteve Young30:57

       And that was, you're talking about what I... I had to have that. And-

   25. TFTim Ferriss31:01

       I mean, those are v- those seem... You know, I've, I've played a bunch of sports, certainly at a very JV level.

   26. SYSteve Young31:05

       Seemed like that'd be table stakes, right?

   27. TFTim Ferriss31:06

       Well, no. It seems like rebuilding your swing in golf or something.

   28. SYSteve Young31:09

       A little bit.

   29. TFTim Ferriss31:10

       Yeah.

   30. SYSteve Young31:10

       But, but it was such an unlock.
10. 31:56 – 34:04

    Recovering from the offensive coordinator who wouldn't coach southpaws.

    1. SYSteve Young31:56

       throw it... And what's ironic is that the coach, who was the offensive coordinator at the time, soon after, because no one knew. This is all happening. I was eighth str- I was no one. I was nobody.

    2. TFTim Ferriss32:09

       Yeah.

    3. SYSteve Young32:10

       No one knew my... But I had figured it out and it, it had clocked in. It was clocking, right?

    4. TFTim Ferriss32:15

       Yeah.

    5. SYSteve Young32:15

       And so I think for me, he pulled me aside later in the year. He goes, "By the way, I don't, I don't coach lefties." He said it to me, "I don't coach lefties." And I'm like... And so I was moved to defense-

    6. TFTim Ferriss32:29

       [laughs]

    7. SYSteve Young32:31

       ... at the end of that season.

    8. TFTim Ferriss32:32

       Mm.

    9. SYSteve Young32:32

       Because Lavell Edwards, the coach, said, "Look, you're super fast, super athletic. We have 10 quarterbacks. Like, you, we want you on the field if you play." And so I started in the winter, m- practices, winter, as a safety in a defense. Holy position I couldn't stand. I hated every second of it. Soon as practice ended, the quarterbacks would throw after practice. I'd go throw.

    10. TFTim Ferriss32:57

        Mm.

    11. SYSteve Young32:57

        And in the interim, that coach who told me he wouldn't coach lefties took a head coaching job at San Diego State. Another coach, Ted Tollner, came in, and I'm throwing with the quarterbacks after practice. And he goes, "Steve, I thought you played quarterback."

    12. TFTim Ferriss33:11

        [laughs]

    13. SYSteve Young33:12

        I go, "I, I do, but they told me I'm lefty, so I have to play defense." [laughs]

    14. TFTim Ferriss33:17

        [laughs]

    15. SYSteve Young33:17

        And he goes, "That's ridiculous. [laughs] That's stupid." I go, "I know. [laughs] It's insane."

    16. TFTim Ferriss33:22

        [laughs]

    17. SYSteve Young33:22

        Pl- And then I screamed out, "But I, and I learned how to throw too."

    18. TFTim Ferriss33:25

        [laughs]

    19. SYSteve Young33:26

        Like, so I have this thing that, you know? And he's like, "Let me go see if I can fix it."

    20. TFTim Ferriss33:30

        [laughs]

    21. SYSteve Young33:30

        So he goes in and changes it.

    22. TFTim Ferriss33:33

        Wow.

    23. SYSteve Young33:33

        And that spring, spring ball was a month.

    24. TFTim Ferriss33:35

        Mm-hmm.

    25. SYSteve Young33:36

        You know, 30 days of practice. He got two weeks for me to, to practice before I, you know, they made a decision, and by the end of the two weeks, because of this new gift-

    26. TFTim Ferriss33:46

        Mm-hmm

    27. SYSteve Young33:47

        ... that was it.

    28. TFTim Ferriss33:48

        Wow.

    29. SYSteve Young33:48

        That was it. And what that changed, everything, 'cause I was fast. I could run. I could throw it hard. I could process. The game wasn't too fast for me. It kind of all made sense to me. I just hadn't unlocked that one-

    30. TFTim Ferriss34:01

        Mm-hmm
11. 34:04 – 40:10

    The vulnerability prerequisite.

    1. SYSteve Young34:04

       [laughs]

    2. TFTim Ferriss34:05

       Yeah. It's so fun having this conversation. I've been looking forward to, to it for so long and, and, uh, before I forget, I just wanted to say again on a very reduced junior varsity level, but I wrestled my whole life basically. And-

    3. SYSteve Young34:16

       Oh, I have total respect.

    4. TFTim Ferriss34:17

       Yeah. It's-

    5. SYSteve Young34:18

       I wrestled in ninth grade.

    6. TFTim Ferriss34:19

       Yeah. It's a tough sport.

    7. SYSteve Young34:20

       I will never-

    8. TFTim Ferriss34:21

       Yeah

    9. SYSteve Young34:21

       ... wrestle again.

    10. TFTim Ferriss34:22

        It is a tough sport.

    11. SYSteve Young34:22

        It is brutal.

    12. TFTim Ferriss34:23

        [laughs] Yeah.

    13. SYSteve Young34:23

        There is no good news.

    14. TFTim Ferriss34:24

        No, [laughs] there's no good news.

    15. SYSteve Young34:25

        You work, like, I remember-

    16. TFTim Ferriss34:27

        [laughs]

    17. SYSteve Young34:27

        ... the first wrestling, I go to this, uh, just to break into your story. I w- you know, it's like three one-minute, three one-minute, or three minute. I can't remember how long it is.

    18. TFTim Ferriss34:35

        Yeah. Yeah. It's tough.

    19. SYSteve Young34:36

        And so by the first one was over, I was done. The people are in the best shape, the greatest athletes. I, when I see wrestlers, I tip my cap.

    20. TFTim Ferriss34:43

        [laughs]

    21. SYSteve Young34:44

        I walk away, man. I'm like-

    22. TFTim Ferriss34:46

        It is a suffer fest-

    23. SYSteve Young34:47

        It is brutal

    24. TFTim Ferriss34:48

        ... no matter what. And just a brief digression here, but I spent a year abroad in Japan in high school, which was my first time really outside of the United States f- from, [laughs] from Long Island to Tokyo, which changed my whole life.

    25. SYSteve Young35:02

        Wow.

    26. TFTim Ferriss35:02

        But I competed in judo while I was there.

    27. SYSteve Young35:03

        Wow.

    28. TFTim Ferriss35:03

        Then I came back for my final year of wrestling in high school, and I was doing really, really well. But I hit a wall, and the reason I'm bringing this up is not at all to compare apples to apples.

    29. SYSteve Young35:14

        No, no, no. Uh, but I get it. Respect.

    30. TFTim Ferriss35:16

        But I somehow found a book called Mental Toughness Training for Sports by a guy named James Loehr, spelled L-O-E-H-R, who Josh Waitzkin actually also knows. And I read that book, and the key piece of that, it talked about different approaches to mental toughness, but it had an assessment, and it asked you to give this assessment to close friends, coaches, teammates, and it just made all of your strengths and weaknesses. Had them rate you on all of these different aspects, toughness, performance, resilience, et cetera, psychology. And once I had those report cards from all of these people, and I was able to see and accept strengths and weaknesses, I don't think this is unique to me. It, there really was a before and after, right? Like, the next practice was different, and that's when everything hockey sticked and ended up having just an incredible season. But to people who are listening and are, haven't experienced what, say, Steve experienced on that plane ride-
12. 40:10 – 45:03

    Separation anxiety: Thriving by day, terrified by night.

    1. TFTim Ferriss40:10

       else. I wanna ask you about one of those [chuckles] one of those quotes from your dad that I was alluding to earlier. So this is from the Bloomberg piece, and the URL has in it, "Steve Young is an athlete who's actually good at finance" [laughs] which I just-

    2. SYSteve Young40:25

       [laughs]

    3. TFTim Ferriss40:26

       I, part of me loves.

    4. SYSteve Young40:27

       It's a true statement. It's-

    5. TFTim Ferriss40:27

       Part, part of me-

    6. SYSteve Young40:28

       ... backhanded compliment. [laughs]

    7. TFTim Ferriss40:29

       Yeah, yeah, love, just love that. So your dad was b- bewildered by-

    8. SYSteve Young40:33

       By that fact. [laughs]

    9. TFTim Ferriss40:34

       Well, well, well, he was bewildered by how well you did at football at different levels, and then this last line is the one I wanted to ask you about. It says, "Honestly, Steve's personality is probably a better fit for law or business," [laughs] right?

    10. SYSteve Young40:46

        Hmm.

    11. TFTim Ferriss40:47

        As compared to professional athlete.

    12. SYSteve Young40:49

        Hmm.

    13. TFTim Ferriss40:49

        Why, why would he say that, do you think?

    14. SYSteve Young40:52

        I think he's referring to... And I, look, we, we should just, we should, we should talk about it. So when I was a kid growing up, f- you know, first grade, second grade, third grade, I was a kid that when the first day of school, like, I would turn to my mom or dad and say, "Look, I'm not going."

    15. TFTim Ferriss41:14

        Mm-hmm.

    16. SYSteve Young41:15

        And they're like, "Why? It's super fun." And I'm like... And my brain was processing it in fear, and a new place, new people, and that seemed super scary.

    17. TFTim Ferriss41:28

        Mm-hmm.

    18. SYSteve Young41:28

        And that's, I think clinically would be called separation anxiety.

    19. TFTim Ferriss41:33

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SYSteve Young41:34

        Childhood, you know, and I think p- people listening, I'm sure they know somebody probably that had that as a kid. And so that didn't really show up in my life 'cause I realized very young that I was not gonna be, like, s- going on vacation with my friends and-

    21. TFTim Ferriss41:49

        Mm-hmm

    22. SYSteve Young41:49

        ... you know, I was gonna be home.

    23. TFTim Ferriss41:51

        Sleepovers, not so much.

    24. SYSteve Young41:52

        Not so much. But during the daytime, I was killing it. Like, I, you know, I mean, only for context, like, all-state in three sports, captain, straight As. Like, not because I was tiger parents or tiger person, like, I just, the day was awesome.

    25. TFTim Ferriss42:11

        Mm-hmm.

    26. SYSteve Young42:11

        I can't wait. It's gonna be great. And at night it's like, "I'm home."

    27. TFTim Ferriss42:14

        Mm-hmm.

    28. SYSteve Young42:14

        And I didn't realize it, how, how much I had of this is when I went to college-

    29. TFTim Ferriss42:19

        Hmm

    30. SYSteve Young42:19

        ... and had to go through a ... a process of geography change that was, like, existential.
13. 45:03 – 49:43

    Tears in the Candlestick Park training room.

    1. TFTim Ferriss45:03

       Was there a, a point where... I mean, this is gonna be a strong way of, of putting it, but you know, I've experienced this in my own life and have talked about struggles. Some of it I think is hereditary with generalized anxiety. I've had depressive episodes, which I've seen throughout my family, and appreciate how open you've been about discussing some of this. And I'm curious at, at what point you realized you didn't need that kind of monkey on your back, and specifically-

    2. SYSteve Young45:35

       Hmm

    3. TFTim Ferriss45:35

       ... I'm thinking about in the course of doing research for this, reading a New York Times piece, and it mentions Dr. James Clint and Reggie, I guess-

    4. SYSteve Young45:46

       Hmm

    5. TFTim Ferriss45:46

       ... and you approaching Reggie at one point. I think it was after what, three sleepless nights? Something like that.

    6. SYSteve Young45:51

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    7. TFTim Ferriss45:52

       And I guess I'm wondering what was happening, right? For people who don't know what the context is.

    8. SYSteve Young45:57

       Yeah.

    9. TFTim Ferriss45:58

       And then what happened afterwards that helped?

    10. SYSteve Young46:02

        So that's interesting. So it's kind of a bookend, actually tight bookends, between the Stephen Covey story and the Jim Clint story.

    11. TFTim Ferriss46:10

        Mm-hmm.

    12. SYSteve Young46:11

        Because just before that, and maybe that's what leads to the vulnerability, I, in the depth of what I just described and where I was in a hole and victimized and depre- There was a game starting like Thursday night. The good news about all of that anxiousness around playing, I always slept.

    13. TFTim Ferriss46:28

        Mm-hmm.

    14. SYSteve Young46:28

        So it was like you could deal with it. And all of a sudden I wasn't, and so it was a game where people that I was near were like, "Steve, you're a mess."

    15. TFTim Ferriss46:37

        Hmm.

    16. SYSteve Young46:37

        "You gotta talk to them. Like, you can't play."

    17. TFTim Ferriss46:40

        Yeah.

    18. SYSteve Young46:40

        And I'm like, "Oh, no. We're, we're," [laughs] you know, "That, that's not an option. Like, we're playing." And I remember telling them as I left for the game in such a state, I just, I'd probably never been s- quite like that.

    19. TFTim Ferriss46:54

        Hmm.

    20. SYSteve Young46:55

        That I s- I promised them. I said, "Look, if we win, I'll talk to the team doctor. Just tell him like I'm not... Something's going on, you know? But if we lose, I can't. There's no place to, to be able to make an ex-" like-

    21. TFTim Ferriss47:11

        An excuse.

    22. SYSteve Young47:12

        Yeah.

    23. TFTim Ferriss47:13

        Mm-hmm.

    24. SYSteve Young47:13

        That's just the way my brain was working. So we won. I played pretty well.

    25. TFTim Ferriss47:18

        Yeah.

    26. SYSteve Young47:19

        I was like, I don't suggest by the way that that's how you prepare.

    27. TFTim Ferriss47:21

        [laughs] Right.

    28. SYSteve Young47:22

        But after the game I'm sitting in the training room, towel, ice pack, and I see Reggie, and he's old. He, you know, he's been around. He'd been around all the Super Bowls. He was somebody that, like, I, I promised my friends that I would do this, but I didn't want to, you know? And we won.

    29. TFTim Ferriss47:41

        Yeah.

    30. SYSteve Young47:42

        So, like, we're good for a little while, right?
14. 49:43 – 55:47

    The diagnosis that made the puzzle pieces fit.

    1. SYSteve Young49:43

       gonna get to the bottom of it." And it wasn't... Maybe two days later, he sent me up to a child psychologist, psychiatrist, I'm not sure, and they gave me a test of 10 questions that would describe things that happened in your life, and that would be, if you answer it yes to eight of them, then you're kind of undiagnosed childhood separation anxiety as an adult. And so I was nine of them, right?

    2. TFTim Ferriss50:04

       Yeah.

    3. SYSteve Young50:04

       Like, so but he says, "Most people, Steve, who have this going on in their life, they're, like, self-medicating, right? They're in the basement. They're, like, you know. But you're the MVP of the NFL, so I think we're just gonna let you keep rolling," [laughs] you know what I mean? "And find your way through it." I did find solace in the knowledge.

    4. TFTim Ferriss50:24

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SYSteve Young50:25

       Recognizing what had ha- 'cause until that point, I had subconsciously always known that I didn't like being at other people's houses when I was a kid, or, you know, in other places where... But my life was so full and amazing that I just kind of, we just made, made our way.

    6. TFTim Ferriss50:41

       Mm-hmm.

    7. SYSteve Young50:42

       And so this was a point where, now bookended with Stephen Covey maybe three weeks later.

    8. TFTim Ferriss50:47

       Mm-hmm.

    9. SYSteve Young50:47

       Like, these are pretty vital, big changes that happened that I think allowed me the place to kind of find peace about it all.

    10. TFTim Ferriss50:57

        And so was the, the diagnosis in itself the treatment, in the respect that you finally had a label to apply, a way to-

    11. SYSteve Young51:08

        Yeah

    12. TFTim Ferriss51:09

        ... think about it so that it wasn't this nebulous set of worries? Or what allowed you, I guess, to-

    13. SYSteve Young51:16

        So it was-

    14. TFTim Ferriss51:17

        ... go back to sleeping?

    15. SYSteve Young51:17

        It was actually super cool, because I didn't think about it as a stigma.

    16. TFTim Ferriss51:22

        Yeah.

    17. SYSteve Young51:22

        Like, I thought about it as like, "Oh, that makes sense."

    18. TFTim Ferriss51:25

        Yeah.

    19. SYSteve Young51:25

        You know?

    20. TFTim Ferriss51:26

        Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

    21. SYSteve Young51:26

        And then as I told my parents, we found out that, like, in my mom's side of the family, this is a thing.

    22. TFTim Ferriss51:32

        Yeah.

    23. SYSteve Young51:33

        And explained all kinds of craziness that was going on that now everyone would go, "Oh!"

    24. TFTim Ferriss51:38

        Now the pieces fit. [laughs]

    25. SYSteve Young51:39

        So now, like, I pay it, like, it paid forward. You know what I mean?

    26. TFTim Ferriss51:42

        Yeah.

    27. SYSteve Young51:42

        So in its own way, that was-

    28. TFTim Ferriss51:44

        Mm-hmm

    29. SYSteve Young51:44

        ... the n- the knowledge was the key. And then because I was functioning through it, like, it was, it was, it was helpful. Didn't make playing in front of 80,000 people and trying to be a great player, it didn't make it simple.

    30. TFTim Ferriss51:56

        Mm-hmm.
15. 55:47 – 58:36

    Dad's philosophy: Dream (1%) and Plan (80%).

    1. TFTim Ferriss55:47

       So Steve, I have to ask you about the following. This is [laughs] , this is the law degree. Over the course of seven off-seasons, he pursued a law degree at BYU. Side note, this is, this is from the Bloomberg piece, his great-great-great-grandfather was Brigham Young himself. That's wild. I mean, I've spent a lot of time in Utah.

    2. SYSteve Young56:07

       [laughs]

    3. TFTim Ferriss56:07

       That's a, maybe a whole separate chapter for another time, but why the law degree? Why did you pursue that?

    4. SYSteve Young56:15

       Huh. My dad, when I was growing up, 'cause I had a picture of Roger Staubach, who was a famous quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys, on my wall. He'd tell me, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" And I'd be like, "I wanna be a quarterback like Roger Staubach." And I'd look at my... You know, and he'd go, "Well, that's a great dream, son. That's a great dream, and dreams are less than 1% chance."

    5. TFTim Ferriss56:36

       Mm.

    6. SYSteve Young56:36

       You know? "But dreams are important. Like, have a dream. Like, I love it, have it, but that's very unlikely. I need you to make a plan that's 80% chance."

    7. TFTim Ferriss56:46

       Mm-hmm.

    8. SYSteve Young56:47

       And so I would tell him, "80% chance, I'll fake it and tell you that I'll go to college, and then I'll go to law school."

    9. TFTim Ferriss56:52

       [laughs]

    10. SYSteve Young56:53

        "Uh, like you, Dad."

    11. TFTim Ferriss56:54

        So that, that was just like a-

    12. SYSteve Young56:54

        "And I'll be, I'll be a lawyer."

    13. TFTim Ferriss56:55

        Okay, so your dad was a lawyer.

    14. SYSteve Young56:57

        And my dad, my dad's a lawyer. And I kind of liked what he w- you know, he described law, and I was like, "I think I could do that." So then I would tell him that. He goes, "You know, I think there's an 80% chance that you can do that."

    15. TFTim Ferriss57:06

        Hmm.

    16. SYSteve Young57:06

        "So that'll be the plan. That's the plan, and now we have a dream and a plan." He was always about that. Even, he turned 90 in February, and I recently asked him, like, "So what's the dream, Dad?" You know, 'cause he always-

    17. TFTim Ferriss57:18

        Yeah

    18. SYSteve Young57:18

        ... he'd be like, "110."

    19. TFTim Ferriss57:19

        Yeah. [laughs]

    20. SYSteve Young57:19

        You know? Like he has it in his mind.

    21. TFTim Ferriss57:21

        Yeah.

    22. SYSteve Young57:21

        Like, that's the dream.

    23. TFTim Ferriss57:22

        Mm-hmm.

    24. SYSteve Young57:23

        So then I had a dream and a plan. So then I go to college, and I end up going, you know, pro, and, and I'm like, the dream comes true, right?

    25. TFTim Ferriss57:31

        Mm-hmm.

    26. SYSteve Young57:32

        I'm like, "Dad, [laughs] so much for 1%, bro. It's 100% now."

    27. TFTim Ferriss57:36

        [laughs]

    28. SYSteve Young57:37

        You know? And then he would always say, "Well, what? An average career is three years." You know, and then I played for six years. And he, I... And he's like, "Well, what are you gonna do the rest of your... You know, you're gonna retire at 35, and then what? You got another half of your life. What are you gonna do?" So he just kept, you know, kind of-

    29. TFTim Ferriss57:52

        Dog, dog-

    30. SYSteve Young57:53

        ... putting in my head.
16. 58:36 – 59:55

    Law school between Super Bowl parades.

    1. SYSteve Young58:36

       blah, blah, blah. So over seven years, six for-credit semesters, I went back. And what was funny now, but wasn't funny at the time, is we went to three Super Bowls in that time, and the Super Bowl's in February. You know, end of January, February. School starts right after the new year. So I'm showing up a month late, and no one in law school cares. You still gotta do the work.

    2. TFTim Ferriss59:00

       Yeah.

    3. SYSteve Young59:00

       So I remember going to parade down Market Street in San Francisco and jumping on a plane, the Delta plane, back to Salt Lake City at la- evening. And then the next morning in class, in every class, the five first, you know, whatever class I... They're usually five or six classes. Every class, it's Socratic method. They walk in and they say, you know, "Miss Jones, can you please brief us on blah, blah." The whole day was, "Mr. Young,"

    4. TFTim Ferriss59:26

       [laughs]

    5. SYSteve Young59:26

       "Could you please brief us on..." [laughs] So I'm just scrambling, trying. But I think I loved that in a weird way. But I look back as like, what are you doing, man?

    6. TFTim Ferriss59:35

       [laughs]

    7. SYSteve Young59:36

       What are you doing?

    8. TFTim Ferriss59:36

       [laughs]

    9. SYSteve Young59:37

       But my dad was right. I'm now at f- 25 years in private equity.

    10. TFTim Ferriss59:41

        Mm-hmm.

    11. SYSteve Young59:41

        And the only way I was able to cut the line, being late to the party, was because I had an advanced degree. That's how I did it. And so he was right.

    12. TFTim Ferriss59:53

        Yeah, it served its purpose.

    13. SYSteve Young59:54

        Dream

17. 59:55 – 1:06:20

    Trading locker room access for venture capital deals.

    1. SYSteve Young59:55

       and plan.

    2. TFTim Ferriss59:55

       All right. So you're doing, you know, these seven off-seasons. [laughs] You're flying back. Parade, get on a plane, fly back. Next morning, "Mr. Young." Right? So you're doing that. How do you make the hop to finance?

    3. SYSteve Young1:00:09

       So-

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:00:09

       How does that even materialize?

    5. SYSteve Young1:00:10

       Yeah, no, I... Okay, so you gotta remember, the 49ers in 1988 were given land in Santa Clara by the city of Santa Clara, 'cause there was nothing going on down there, to build a training facility and try to attract more business. And it's funny now, 'cause Silicon Valley, you know-

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:00:30

       Yeah

    7. SYSteve Young1:00:30

       ... you know Santa Clara is [laughs] middle of this.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:00:32

       The center. [laughs]

    9. SYSteve Young1:00:33

       Like, it is the epicenter of, of Silicon Valley. And so that's where I worked all the years.

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:00:39

        Mm-hmm.

    11. SYSteve Young1:00:39

        And so as we worked and watched- ... the explosion of Silicon Valley and technology. We're sitting in the, in the locker room, and there's five or six of us, a lunch group, that we would figure out, okay, look, how do we get in on all this venture investing and all this stuff that's going on, all these businesses? Guys were leaving Stanford Business School, literally in the middle of class would get a text or something, and they would take the CEO job of a new startup-

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:01:05

        Yeah

    13. SYSteve Young1:01:05

        ... and walk out.

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:01:06

        Yeah. Yeah.

    15. SYSteve Young1:01:06

        You know what I mean? And so how do we get in the middle of it? So we started trading access to the locker room from these guys on Sand Hill Road for venture investing. So we started to get everything they did. We'd give them $50,000 of what they were doing. We'd split it up.

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:01:18

        How did that relationship happen?

    17. SYSteve Young1:01:21

        Well, it was-

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:01:21

        'Cause it doesn't seem like the Venn diagrams would totally overlap.

    19. SYSteve Young1:01:23

        Well, no, because, like, Doug Leone was a great guy and a great friend.

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:01:26

        Doug Leone is... He's one of the greats.

    21. SYSteve Young1:01:28

        He was one that said, "Look, we didn't make a trade."

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:01:31

        Yeah.

    23. SYSteve Young1:01:31

        It wasn't a transaction. It was more like, "Hey, we'd love a relationship. Come in the locker room, be a part of our life, and let us be a part of your life," essentially.

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:01:40

        Mm-hmm.

    25. SYSteve Young1:01:40

        And so he was somebody that I think really appreciated the complexity of what we were doing and the high function that we were doing, and then we obviously appreciated the high function and complexity of what he was doing, and so we shared in that, and I think that that was... That started a process. I was asked by Brian Maxwell, who's now passed away, but he started PowerBar. That was a meal replacement for marathoners, right?

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:02:04

        Oh, I remember. I remember back in the day.

    27. SYSteve Young1:02:05

        But for a single guy, that was my... It was meal replacement, like, not for a marathon, for-

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:02:09

        Life [laughs]

    29. SYSteve Young1:02:09

        ... like day to day, right? [laughs] And so it kinda got famous around the Bay Area that I was... PowerBar. He asked me to be on the board and, and I was like, "Well, I've never done that before. I'll try that." At first board meeting, Larry Sonsini, one of the-

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:02:22

        Yeah
18. 1:06:20 – 1:09:33

    Mourning old identities and heeding Roger Staubach's transition advice: "Run."

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:06:20

       I'm looking right over your shoulder at looks like maybe a tweet from Rich Lawson, your partner. It says, "Very proud to break into the top 20 of 500-plus private equity firms globally in just over the decade," da, da, da, da, dum. Okay. So I mean, you've had these, these multiple chapters. How did you connect with Rich Lawson? That's actually... You can see-

    2. SYSteve Young1:06:43

       [laughs]

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:06:43

       ... Rich Lawson right there. So perfect timing. How did you manage to-

    4. SYSteve Young1:06:48

       Well, let's back up-

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:06:50

       Yeah

    6. SYSteve Young1:06:50

       ... 'cause- What you're alluding to, I think, is that what we've been talking about really for the whole time is transition.

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:06:55

       Yeah. Exactly.

    8. SYSteve Young1:06:56

       And the difficulties. Like, 'cause I love football and I was very successful at it, I run into a lot of people who played in high school and loved it. Like if they... Their dream. Like they would give their arm or leg to be able to play in college and keep the dream going. And I always think about how when I left the game, it wasn't necessarily forced, but you do age out, like it just sooner or later. Even Tom Brady aged out at 45. Like, it's a young man's game. The day I retired, I was known for this thing that I had been able to do worldwide even. The next day I remember waking up, and now that that's gone...

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:07:36

       Now what?

    10. SYSteve Young1:07:36

        Yeah.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:07:37

        Yeah.

    12. SYSteve Young1:07:37

        And what I've learned about transition, at least to Rich Lawson, how I describe it, that everyone, and even the high schooler, that the last day they play and it has to be put away, needs to recognize and treat it like a death, to mourn it and go through all the steps of mourning it and, and burying it, and actually having it as a place that you can keep referring to as almost like a grave site. Like, you know, because otherwise you carry it around.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:08:07

        Mm.

    14. SYSteve Young1:08:08

        And it never gets... You never transition. Transitioning is about actually moving from to, right?

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:08:15

        Mm-hmm.

    16. SYSteve Young1:08:15

        And so I'm really grateful my... Roger Staubach, the poster on my wall, I got to know him.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:08:21

        Mm.

    18. SYSteve Young1:08:22

        He became a friend. [laughs] Like he... Like it's insane.

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:08:25

        Yeah. How cool is that?

    20. SYSteve Young1:08:26

        And, and he famously transitioned, probably the most successful transition in history of the NFL.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:08:32

        What did he transition to?

    22. SYSteve Young1:08:33

        He built The Staubach Company, was a real estate business that he was hugely successful. And I remember asking him towards the end of my career, "Roger, what do I... Give me some tips." He goes, "Run." I'm like, "Run? Run where?" He goes, "Just run away." That was his tip. Because he said, "The game will never leave you, but you need to leave it. You need to move on." And I thought that was just simple but really important.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:09:00

        Mm.

    24. SYSteve Young1:09:00

        And I tell people today, and I really wanna write a book about transition-

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:09:03

        Yeah

    26. SYSteve Young1:09:03

        ... because everybody is constantly transitioning, whether they like it or not. Most of it forced, right? But if there's a authentic, vulnerable way to transition and bury and mourn, you can wake up the next day, realize I was great at something, and now I'm not even good at anything else, but you know what? I'm gonna-

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:09:23

        Learn and grow

    28. SYSteve Young1:09:23

        ... we're gonna learn and grow. [laughs]

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:09:26

        [laughs] Thought I'm slow, but I'm getting there.

    30. SYSteve Young1:09:30

        Whoa. [laughs]
19. 1:09:33 – 1:17:11

    Rich Lawson walks out of Morgan Stanley: "I'll be the CEO."

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:09:33

       What did mourning football look like to you? What did running from it look like, and what did mourning look like?

    2. SYSteve Young1:09:39

       It's funny. So you lead to Rich. So as we built this business, and I was still playing, I was getting ready to run, and I was already running away from it even before it was over. I think there was a fear-based, which is not necessarily the best way to do this, that if I didn't run really fast, that it would somehow keep me from getting really clear of it all.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:10:04

       Mm.

    4. SYSteve Young1:10:04

       And so I just started... You know, we had that business and we were just running. And so he was a banker at Morgan Stanley. We took this idea that Warren and, and Larry had said, "Great."

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:10:14

       Mm-hmm.

    6. SYSteve Young1:10:15

       My buddy Jim Herman, and he said, as we went to go get financing for this business, we ran into Rich, who was a very successful banker in Morgan Stanley, but young, recognizing everything that's going on. He says, "You need a CEO." And I'm like, "Yeah, you're right. We do." He says, "I'll leave Ban..." Uh, you gotta be in the late '90s in technology.

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:10:33

       Yeah.

    8. SYSteve Young1:10:33

       He's like, "I'm walking out of Morgan Stanley. I'm gonna be the CEO."

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:10:36

       [laughs]

    10. SYSteve Young1:10:36

        And so we've been together ever since then.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:10:38

        [laughs]

    12. SYSteve Young1:10:38

        And so the transition you're talking about as far as, I think because of that energy around great mentors, I mean, I'm very, very lucky. Like, I didn't have to do it raw.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:10:50

        Mm.

    14. SYSteve Young1:10:50

        I didn't have to do it alone. I didn't have to... Like, that would be super difficult. I had all this mentorship, all this ex- modeling, all this example from Roger, from, you know, from everybody. So to me it was just can you just go enact what is obvious to go do. And I really appreciate it 'cause the game never does leave you.

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:11:12

        Yeah.

    16. SYSteve Young1:11:13

        I traffic in memorabilia for our golf tournaments for Forever Young Foundation, and so we need constant signatures from jerseys from players and hockey players and/or, or Hollywood or... And so I, to this day, you can't imagine how many signatures that I do that as part of the memorabilia company, and they pay me-

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:11:32

        Mm

    18. SYSteve Young1:11:32

        ... in stuff, so we can use it for the tournaments. You know what I mean?

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:11:37

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SYSteve Young1:11:37

        If you'd have told me in 2025 I'd still be signing-

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:11:39

        [laughs]

    22. SYSteve Young1:11:40

        ... my name on Steve Young jerseys or helmets, it blows the mind.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:11:44

        Mm-hmm.

    24. SYSteve Young1:11:45

        But we're still trafficking in it-

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:11:47

        [laughs]

    26. SYSteve Young1:11:47

        ... because it funds the foundation and we have great golf tournaments and we make-

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:11:52

        Yeah

    28. SYSteve Young1:11:52

        ... a lot of good things happen. So it's like a virtuous cycle that we got going, but...

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:11:56

        It seems also really fortunate, we were chatting just when we took a break briefly, and we won't get into the details of that, but about some of the former military kinda tier one operators-

    30. SYSteve Young1:12:08

        Yes
20. 1:17:11 – 1:21:02

    30 years of partnership: Yin, yang, and existential crises.

    1. SYSteve Young1:17:11

       all.

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:17:12

       I mean, I have a lot of friends in the investing world writ large, but I have quite a few in the private equity world as well. And I mean, how long have you guys been partners now?

    3. SYSteve Young1:17:20

       That was 1997.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:17:21

       All right. Yeah, it's been a minute.

    5. SYSteve Young1:17:22

       So almost 30.

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:17:23

       Yeah, 30 years. Why has it worked? What are-

    7. SYSteve Young1:17:26

       That's interesting.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:17:27

       Right? Because a lot don't.

    9. SYSteve Young1:17:29

       None do.

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:17:29

        Very... Yeah, right [laughs] . There we go.

    11. SYSteve Young1:17:31

        First of all, I think that there was a clarity early on that the things that he's really good at, I really am not good at.

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:17:39

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SYSteve Young1:17:40

        And the things that I was really good at wasn't his strongest suit, you know? So there's a yin and yang kind of feel to it. And then there's a trust that gets built that just works. Like, it either does or doesn't, and it gets tested. I mean, the times that in 30 years are you gotta be kidding me, there are existential moments when it felt like, "Well, that was fun," you know?

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:18:02

        Yeah.

    15. SYSteve Young1:18:02

        "See you later." [laughs]

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:18:04

        What types of, if you're, if you're able to talk about it, like, how do those precipitate?

    17. SYSteve Young1:18:08

        Private equity-

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:18:08

        Yeah.

    19. SYSteve Young1:18:08

        Private equity, if you think about it, is a really unique business because you go globally to find investors to believe that you can go now deploy capital in businesses to return, you know, significantly more over a period of time than the public equities or other, you know, bonds or anything else. And so private equity's got this fuse-

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:18:29

        Mm-hmm

    21. SYSteve Young1:18:30

        ... of capital that has to be great. And you have to be great in kinda 10-year increments-

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:18:38

        Mm-hmm

    23. SYSteve Young1:18:38

        ... so that as you go out and you raise the money and you go do it, every few years you're gonna have another referendum on whether you're in business or not.

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:18:47

        Right. Based on your report card.

    25. SYSteve Young1:18:49

        Truly, you could be out of business. That, and it, so it's a crazy world. To now try to build continuity from fund to fund and a business that reflects the values that you want, like in the middle of... The truth of it is like there's a referendum every few years, and it might go away. [laughs] And so when you're getting started, like any startup, there are existential moments that feel... I look back and it probably wasn't truly existential, but it felt it, and that builds trust or scar tissue that... I mean, to me, the most interesting people in the world have lots of scars, right? And have found the bounty in it, right?

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:19:36

        Mm-hmm.

    27. SYSteve Young1:19:36

        The, the, the good in it.

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:19:38

        Mm-hmm.

    29. SYSteve Young1:19:38

        And so that's how it's worked. It's... And like we, we had our, our holiday party yesterday, last night, and here we are sitting together just chopping it up, like how amazing what's happened, but yet what we can do, you know? So it's just Henry Kravitz and George Roberts both I've had the pleasure and the honor of knowing, and that's one of the great partnerships of all time.

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:20:01

        Hmm.
21. 1:21:02 – 1:23:24

    HGGC: The name nobody can pronounce (and why).

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:21:02

       Looks pretty cool as a background with the camera facing this way. [laughs]

    2. SYSteve Young1:21:04

       There you go. [laughs]

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:21:07

       So HGGC, Handsome Good Guy Company? What does that stand for? [laughs]

    4. SYSteve Young1:21:10

       It's... Historically, it was Huntsman Gay Global Capital. At the time, back in 2008, '07, Rich and I were the younger partners-

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:21:19

       Mm

    6. SYSteve Young1:21:19

       ... founders, and the two older partners, Jon Huntsman and Bob Gay with Greg Benson, and, and Jon wanted his name on it.

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:21:27

       Mm.

    8. SYSteve Young1:21:27

       And Bob didn't want his name on it. But then Jon won, so it's Huntsman Gay Global Capital. But then Jon was selling his Huntsman chemical business, but in the 2008 credit crisis, it... You can read the story, it's an amazing story, where Leon Black at Apollo had bought it, signed it, but then didn't fund it.

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:21:46

       [laughs]

    10. SYSteve Young1:21:47

        Because everything had gone crazy.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:21:49

        Right.

    12. SYSteve Young1:21:50

        And then what ended up happening is the con- transaction did not get funded. They broke it. There was a huge lawsuit and billion-dollar settlement, but the net of it was Jon Huntsman never was able to come over. So here we are-

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:22:03

        [laughs]

    14. SYSteve Young1:22:03

        ... raising money as Huntsman Gay Global, and we don't have Jon. And then Bob left for full-time church service three years later.

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:22:10

        Hmm.

    16. SYSteve Young1:22:10

        So then we go to fund two and it's like, "We're Huntsman Gay Global Capital. No Jon Huntsman."

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:22:14

        [laughs]

    18. SYSteve Young1:22:14

        "No Bob Gay. But we have Rich Lawson and Steve Young. What do you think? Let's go." [laughs]

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:22:20

        [laughs] That's... I'm so glad I asked. [laughs]

    20. SYSteve Young1:22:24

        So then we have a decision to make in 2012.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:22:27

        [laughs]

    22. SYSteve Young1:22:28

        What do we name ourselves, you know? 'Cause we can't stay with that name.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:22:31

        Yeah.

    24. SYSteve Young1:22:31

        And there's a little panic like, "Can we even raise a..." I mean, again, existential crisis.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:22:36

        Can, can we even raise?

    26. SYSteve Young1:22:37

        Can we raise a fund? Let's melt it down so at least it's a reflection of something that was existing. And I honestly, and everyone around my the firm knows this, I can't stand our name because HGGC is hard to say.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:22:49

        Yeah.

    28. SYSteve Young1:22:49

        So you stand up in a very formal setting, and you're trying to express the values and this incredible partnership culture that you've built off of the back of my his- my previous life in football and how you have to come together and, you know, Perry Pursue, we can lock arms, strategic vision, we can go, you... And, and, you know, everyone here at HGGC, you know? [laughs]

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:23:07

        That's a lot of syllables. [laughs]

    30. SYSteve Young1:23:07

        Yeah, it's like... So my great idea is to call it Ca- you know, I used to play at Candlestick Park, so it was Candlestick Ventures-
22. 1:23:24 – 1:28:04

    Faith evolution: From Boy Scout theology to something deeper.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:23:24

       You mentioned something that actually might be a nice segue to where I was planning on going next anyway. You said left for full-time church service, and I was gonna ask about faith.

    2. SYSteve Young1:23:37

       Yeah.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:23:37

       The role that faith-

    4. SYSteve Young1:23:38

       Sure

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:23:38

       ... not only plays in your life now, but has played. Has it, has it changed form over time? I don't know if it has or not, but-

    6. SYSteve Young1:23:45

       Yeah. No, it always does

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:23:46

       ... but, uh-

    8. SYSteve Young1:23:47

       It should.

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:23:48

       Yeah.

    10. SYSteve Young1:23:48

        Learn and grow, right?

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:23:49

        Mm-hmm.

    12. SYSteve Young1:23:49

        I mean, that's just... As a young kid, you know, like it was, it was formative, right? Like, it gave you a sense that God's with you, like cheering you on. I always... As a kid, I always felt like, you know, even in the hardest times, like, no, God's cheering you on. Like, I never felt this wrathful.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:24:10

        Mm-hmm.

    14. SYSteve Young1:24:10

        Like when I read the Old Testament, I'm like, "Eh."

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:24:13

        It's pretty rough.

    16. SYSteve Young1:24:13

        "Not really."

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:24:14

        Yeah.

    18. SYSteve Young1:24:14

        "That doesn't make sense to me."

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:24:15

        Leviticus doesn't have a big smile on him.

    20. SYSteve Young1:24:16

        Yeah, but it's a lot... But it doesn't... It actually... And I was able, as a young kid, to kind of ferret through the things that resonated and the stuff that, like didn't.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:24:24

        Mm-hmm.

    22. SYSteve Young1:24:25

        And so my theology is really wrapped into what I would call... You know, being LDS is like complex because it was a, you know, we claim this kind of restoration, so it was a res- essentially a restart, and in the restart there's... I mean, you look back at the history in the last 200 years, it's pretty chaotic.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:24:45

        Mm-hmm.

    24. SYSteve Young1:24:46

        And so for me, I don't have to carry all that.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:24:48

        Right.

    26. SYSteve Young1:24:48

        The things that resonate, the things that are beautiful are rooted in that event. So it's like, to me, it's always resonated. It's always been something that... And I don't have to carry- What I see as kind of the chaotic parts of a young organization. So in that way, I'm... Like, I still... I tell my wife, you know, she, she got me started on, you know, really questioning and challenging the culture-

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:25:15

        Hmm

    28. SYSteve Young1:25:16

        ... as a cultural experience because true faith can't be cultural, right? It has to be rooted in, in something actionable that is beyond you, you know? And so I find myself more energized than ever around faith and around the potential of organized religion and its beauty, yet recognizing how devastatingly painful and difficult and all the other parts of it.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:25:47

        Mm-hmm.

    30. SYSteve Young1:25:47

        So ferreting through all that, I find myself more energized than ever at how I feel around faith and connection and relationship, 'cause I, I learned somewhere in there that if you're not careful, go back to what we talked about around entropy and rotting and transaction and... Like, if you're not careful, religion becomes like what I call Boy Scout theology. Kind of go get a merit badge, you know, do the work. It's, it's good work. It's not bad work. Go get a merit badge, put it on your sash, and then wear it around town so everyone knows what an amazing Boy Scout you are.
23. 1:28:04 – 1:31:20

    The Law of Love: Bill Walsh's secret weapon.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:28:04

       No need to apologize. I mean, this is an exploration, and I wanted to ask for a number of different reasons.

    2. SYSteve Young1:28:12

       Mm-hmm.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:28:12

       One of them, I mean, and this, this is a reflection of sort of the antithesis of, of insular also in my reading of The Law of Love, your book, which was sent to me by Greg McKeown, who wrote Essentialism.

    4. SYSteve Young1:28:23

       Oh, wow.

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:28:24

       And ended up listening to it.

    6. SYSteve Young1:28:26

       Seriously? [chuckles]

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:28:27

       And-

    8. SYSteve Young1:28:27

       Oh, man

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:28:27

       ... and I listened to it.

    10. SYSteve Young1:28:29

        I apologize for that.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:28:30

        Well, [chuckles] no need to apologize, but-

    12. SYSteve Young1:28:32

        Well, no, it's written for my LDS brothers and sisters. Like, we're in a place where our roots are incredibly non-transactional and yet have allowed for the, the rational... I shouldn't say infection, but allowing for the transactional to actually l- lead in places that it-

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:28:49

        Mm

    14. SYSteve Young1:28:50

        ... needs to be kind of excised, and so that's the book is about, is that there's a law governing the universe, universal law for all humans, that says to see the full measure of something, you have to lose the self-interest.

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:29:04

        Mm-hmm.

    16. SYSteve Young1:29:04

        I was brought here by Bill Walsh, my coach in the Forty-Niners, who used to talk about every year he'd stand in front of the team and say, "I don't care what play we call. I don't care what defense we run. We're gonna win because we have shared common experiences amongst each other and an element of love for each other." And it was like, "That's how we're gonna win football games?" And it was actually true.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:29:25

        Right.

    18. SYSteve Young1:29:26

        All the way to all elements of my marriage, my family, my, my relationships. It was, it was all as I sought the higher ground, I guess you would call it. It w- it just started to resonate, and I wanted to write about it.

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:29:42

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SYSteve Young1:29:42

        It was my journey. It was my, you know, led by my wife, who I just think s- like I'm so much better rubbing up against her every day, you know, shoulder to shoulder. Like I just... I always say she gets the barnacles off my boat.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:29:53

        [laughs]

    22. SYSteve Young1:29:53

        You know what I mean? Like, like [chuckles] I love her for that. And so that's... I don't even know what the question you were... I kind of lost myself in it, but...

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:30:02

        I'll pick up where, where you just left off with respect to keeping this lo- not necessarily... It's not the loss of self-interest. It's, it's also this love of the collective. That might not be the best way to phrase it, but self-transcendence maybe would be one way to put it. How do you, how do your wife, how do you guys, your family, keep it at the forefront? Maybe it's a question for you. Like, how has that become more important? How do you keep it, like you did the accountability after that plane ride, something that you have as a lens on a daily or weekly basis?

    24. SYSteve Young1:30:39

        I think that's where the theology really is important, is how you see, how you define the crazy world that we have, you know? I mean, I just noticed a fiery orb that came through the sky again today. Amazing how it just comes in and makes Palo Alto, you know, sixty-seven degrees and-

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:30:56

        Right

    26. SYSteve Young1:30:56

        ... perfect. You know what I mean? [chuckles] Like, the things that are going on, the miracles that happen every... I can't... You know, I had breakfast, but I don't digest, digest my food. I don't know ... vitamins and minerals that body needs. Like, there's just this intelligence that's out there that is universal. And dang, I forgot your question because I got lost.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:31:13

        Oh, that's okay. No, I was, uh, just asking the law of love, how you keep that-

    28. SYSteve Young1:31:17

        Oh, in the forefront

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:31:18

        ... in the forefront.

    30. SYSteve Young1:31:18

        Yeah.
24. 1:31:20 – 1:42:38

    Divine humanity and the irony of losing self-interest.

    1. SYSteve Young1:31:20

       typical of me, I was gonna go f- a roundabout.

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:31:23

       Oh, you can take the roundabout.

    3. SYSteve Young1:31:24

       Yeah, but I-

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:31:24

       The scenic, the scenic route

    5. SYSteve Young1:31:24

       ... but I think what, what I was trying to say is that, again, it's an intent, and it's really about recognizing and defining... That's where I was going. It d- it's defining kind of the conditions of our life that I think God authored. The whole, you know, it's a body. There's agency, choices to make. There's opposition everywhere. And so with that kind of as an ingredient, that's our laboratory-

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:31:51

       Mm-hmm

    7. SYSteve Young1:31:51

       ... for learning and gr- it goes back to learning and growing. That's the laboratory. So in that laboratory, as we define each other, how are we related? And so my theology is that God, Mother and Father, we are, are durable spirits inside of us that are not from this place. We take a body for learning and growing, but then when we die, there's this physical entity of spirit that's durable and that it's divine. Like, so that every human is divine. So in that way, as you start to define things that are every day, how you relate with them, it's in the definition is how you actually act.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:32:30

       Mm-hmm.

    9. SYSteve Young1:32:30

       And so if I see everyone as divine and more eternal, like you see someone on the street and you say, "Oh, they're in a bad spot. I mean, that's terrible. I have... They chose their way. That, what a bad life. What a ba-" And it's like, no, let's back out and recognize that there's a broad, big spectrum of experience, and let's see and have the curiosity for how to help those around us learn and grow as well. Like, and because we're, we really are related. We were all together. We all chose to take a body. And so in that theology, there's this universality. And so if you talk about the law of love, it's really just a fulfillment-

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:33:09

        Mm-hmm

    11. SYSteve Young1:33:09

        ... of the relationship that's already true. So it's not like I have to go through all kinds of mental machinations to, to make myself see others as literal family. Like, it's in the roots. It's in the dirt. You and I are related in that way. You're divine. We're both divine, so let's be about it.

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:33:29

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SYSteve Young1:33:29

        And so in that way, the intent of the law of love, it says the full measure of what I can get out of this life cannot be a transaction. God cannot be Santa Claus.

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:33:43

        Yeah.

    15. SYSteve Young1:33:44

        As much as Santa Claus is a cool idea, and that, like, if I'm super good, I get a gift, at its root, it's self-interested and it can't last. It can't... If there are durable spirits inside of us that are more in perpetual, the law that leads us cannot be self-interested because it will rot. It will rot like everything else in the... Everything around us is deca- I looked in the mirror today. Tim, it's not going good, bro.

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:34:08

        [laughs]

    17. SYSteve Young1:34:09

        Like, it's going the wrong direction. So in that way, the law of love is really about saying there is a law that is decreed from, like, the origins of the universe that says if I can lose the transaction, if I can lose myself and be curious about you and be curious about where you've been, there's an element that's pure in that, that you take in in a different way. If you and I have a transactional relationship, it's gonna, it's gonna feel that way, and there's a lot of bounty in it, a lot of profit. There's a lot of m-money run around the world. There's a lot of fame. There's a lot of everything. There's a lot of goodness in s- many ways. But in the end, if it's purely transactional, if my marriage is purely transactional, at some point it's gonna break.

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:34:53

        Mm-hmm.

    19. SYSteve Young1:34:53

        It has to, in self-interest. And so if you ask me the intent or how to, how do you live it, you have to defi- to me, the definition's important, right? Because otherwise you'd be like, "Screw that. I'm, I've been curious about people, and I've been hurt."

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:35:07

        Mm-hmm.

    21. SYSteve Young1:35:08

        "And I'm done with that, and I'm tired of being left behind." And then, um, the victimization shows up. Let's say we have themes, right? We got... And all of a sudden it's like, "Well, the world's against me, and now I'm gonna, I'll, you know, and I'll take my part."

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:35:20

        Look out for number one. Come on.

    23. SYSteve Young1:35:21

        "So I'm gonna take my part."

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:35:22

        Mm-hmm.

    25. SYSteve Young1:35:23

        Right? And as soon as you do that, yeah, there's a mitigating truth to it. It all makes sense in my brain. [laughs] But, but that's-

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:35:29

        Yeah, it, yeah, it makes sense. Like, just because you can identify truths in a scene or situation, it doesn't mean that by focusing on those particular truths or those mitigating factors, that you produce any type of durable good for yourself or others.

    27. SYSteve Young1:35:46

        No, the idea is that the full bounty of a relationship, for, for... put religion aside again. Just put it all aside. The full bounty of a relationship is actually ironic. In an unfeigned love, care, concern, even a fairly well hello, you know, just something that says, "I am about your well-being. You're... Hope you have a great day."

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:36:11

        Mm-hmm.

    29. SYSteve Young1:36:11

        You know? In that simple statement that's not, I'm not looking for anything, just I, "I truly hope you have a great day," in that element, I believe is, unlocks an irony of how you actually receive a great day.

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:36:24

        Mm-hmm.
25. 1:42:38 – 1:44:24

    Parting thoughts.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:42:38

       it's so critical. Steve, I, I know you've been very generous with, with your time. I really enjoy this. Is there anything else that you'd like to share or talk about before we wind to a close?

    2. SYSteve Young1:42:49

       I will tell you, Tim, that you're really good at this.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:42:51

       Thank you.

    4. SYSteve Young1:42:52

       Because I don't know that I've ever had a conversation like this. I leave with the, that unsettling feeling like I've really shared, you know?

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:43:02

       [laughs]

    6. SYSteve Young1:43:03

       Like, I'm like, you know, overshared [laughs] possibly.

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:43:06

       [laughs]

    8. SYSteve Young1:43:06

       And I f- I'm like, "Oh, man." But I'm at a place in my life where I just, I'm curious about, you know, about that, you know what I mean?

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:43:16

       Mm-hmm.

    10. SYSteve Young1:43:16

        I'm not... It's like I'm not worried about it. I just like... But thank you for a chance to put into words. And like I wish... I already feel like, "Oh, I wish I could have said that differently," or I could have... You know, 'cause it was so raw in some ways.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:43:29

        Mm.

    12. SYSteve Young1:43:29

        So I'm gonna... I'll get better at that, but I really appreciate that, for me, the depths of how you took me to places that I really appreciate. I will not listen to it-

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:43:40

        [laughs]

    14. SYSteve Young1:43:40

        ... 'cause it's just too much, too much. [laughs] I'll get responses from people.

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:43:44

        [laughs]

    16. SYSteve Young1:43:44

        But thank you for the gift of, of vulnerability-

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:43:49

        Mm

    18. SYSteve Young1:43:49

        ... and the gift of expressing kind of my, you know, my story. I appreciate it.

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:43:55

        Yeah. Thank you. I've really, really enjoyed it. Folks can find you on Instagram @steveyoung, on X at @steveyoungqb. You've got the hggc.com website, of course. Also, people should check out Forever Young Foundation, and we'll link to many other things in the show notes for everybody at tim.blog/podcast. And until next time, as I always say, folks, be just a bit kinder than is necessary to others, but also to yourself. And thanks for tuning in. Thank you, Steve.

Episode duration: 1:44:34