Strength Training, Shredding Body Fat, and Increasing Testosterone and Sex Drive | Charles Poliquin

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Tim Ferriss 0:23 This episode is brought to you by 99designs, your one-stop shop for all things graphic design related. I've used 99designs for everything from banner ads to book covers, including sketches and mock-ups that led to The 4-Hour Body, which later became number one New York Times, number one Wall Street Journal. And the brainstorming, a lot of it took place with designers from around the world. And here's how it works. Whether you need a T-shirt, a business card, a website, an app thumbnail, whatever it might be, you submit that project and designers from around the world will send you sketches and mock-ups and designs. You choose your favorite, and you have an original that you love or you get your money back. It's that straightforward. And many of you who are listening have already used it and created some amazing things that I'll be sharing in the future. But in the meantime, if you wanna see some of my competitions, some of the book covers, as well as get a free $99 upgrade, go to 99designs.com/tim. That's 99designs.com/tim. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, "If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?" And my answer is inevitably Athletic Greens. It is your all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body, did not get paid for that. And I travel with it to avoid getting sick. I take it in the mornings to ensure optimal performance. It just covers all my bases if I can't get what I need through whole food meals throughout the rest of the day. And you can get 50, oh my gosh, 50% off. Yes, 50% off if you go to athleticgreens.com/tim. That's athleticgreens.com/tim. Check it out. It's tasty, but more important, it will help you not screw up when you're doing your nutritional planning. So for me, just covers the bases, takes a load off my mind, puts a lot in my body. And, uh, check it out, athleticgreens.com/tim. Hello, ladies and germs, and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my

Tim Ferriss 2:26 job to deconstruct world-class performers, whether they are chess prodigies, hedge fund managers, professional athletes, musicians, actors, politicians [laughs] , you name it. Arnold Schwarzenegger's been on the show. We have people like Josh Waitzkin, who's been on the show, the inspiration for Searching for Bobby Fischer. But this time we have one of your favorites. Categorically, you guys love these episodes. And we have a strength coach, a hypertrophy coach, and a nutrition coach all in one. Charles Poliquin is his name. Charles Poliquin is one of the best-known strength coaches in the world. He has trained elite athletes from nearly 20 different sports, including Olympic gold medalists, NFL All-Pro’s, NHL All-Stars and Stanley Cup champions, and IFBB bodybuilding champions. His clients include all sorts of folks, but in that list you would find long jump gold medalist Dwight Phillips, NHL MVP Chris Pronger, and MLB, that's Major League Baseball, batting champion Edgar Martinez, among many others. Charles is currently teaching advanced hypertrophy, nutrition, and strength seminars alongside one of my favorite athletes, Olympic weightlifting icon and medalist Dimitry Klokov. You have to look this guy up. And there is a photo of Charles, who's now over 50 years old, training with Dimitry, and it looks like Charles' arms might be bigger, amazingly [laughs] . This guy is a specimen, both of them. In any case, Poliquin has authored more than 600 articles on strength training. He is prolific, and his work has been translated into 12 different languages. He has also written eight books, and his latest work is Arm Size and Strength: The Ultimate Guide. And he certainly walks the talk with that one. You have to see it to believe it, and I'll certainly put some photos in the show notes and links and everything at 4hourworkweek.com/podcast. So you can find links to everything. That, that includes our conversation on blood testing, neurotransmitter optimization, hormone replacement therapy, the good, the bad, and the ugly of that, what to do with loose skin or stretch marks. We covered just about everything, his ideal breakfast. And, uh, he is an amusing fellow. So if you've never thought of, uh, penis skin on your abs, well, he will give you some imagery that will help you remember all sorts of useful tidbits [laughs] , that among many others. You can find a lot more on Charles and his latest at strengthsensei.com. But in the meantime, this conversation covers a lot. I had a blast. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did, and here is Charles Poliquin. Charles, welcome to the show.

Speaker 5:06 Thank you, Tim. Uh, I really appreciate you asking me to be on your podcast.

Tim Ferriss 5:11 I'm, uh, excited to dig into all sorts of good stuff. You and I have spent some time together, and I st- I still remember, I'm not sure if it's post-traumatic stress disorder-

Speaker 5:20 [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 5:20 ... but the ART that you did on my shoulder [laughs] at one of your seminars, oh, where I was, I was held down. I felt like it was a scene out of Oz or something.

Speaker 5:29 [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 5:30 But the, uh, the, yeah. You have a very wide-ranging, uh, a very wide-ranging, uh, expertise, and that, that goes all the way from, you know, ART, active release technique, and doing this manual therapy to the training, the nutrition, the supplementation. When someone asks you, "What do you do?" what is your answer?

Speaker 5:52 I simply say I'm a strength coach. Uh, but the tools I use, I guess, are a bit more varied than some of my colleagues.

Tim Ferriss 5:58 [laughs] And, uh, how did you first become ... fascinated by, by strength. And also d- uh, closely related to that, is English your f- is E- is English your first language?

Speaker 6:09 Not at all. It's French. I didn't speak English actually till I was 17. And then actually learned English because I wanted to be really good at strength training. So the, the story behind that is that, you know, as a kid, uh, I remember looking at Tarzan comics or watching Captain America cartoons, and I was a- I always wanted a big physique. I thought that was, like, the ultimate hero. But what happened is that when I was about 14, um, you know, as ... I'm a recovering Catholic, so I had to go to Catholic church every Sunday. And to be frank, I hated it, and I only went there to perv on this girl called Lucy Lemire.

Tim Ferriss 6:46 [laughs]

Speaker 6:47 [laughs] Who was, who was very hot. And then one day she didn't show up, so the next day on Monday I say, "Lucy, you weren't at church yesterday." She goes, "No, I'm 14 now and my parents say you can decide whether you go or not." So I said, "If it's good enough for her, it's good enough for me." So what happened is I, um, uh, there was a university library, the University of Ottawa, was right beside the church. So I said instead of wasting my time listening to what I thought was bullshit, I'm gonna go to the university library. And I was on the magazine section, the periodicals, and I saw a, a French, uh, magazine, a periodical from Belgium called Kinesiology, Kinesiology. And they talked about arthritis in the knee. And I, I, so I read it. It was in French, so I could understand. And I didn't speak English at the time, so then it didn't take a long time to go through everything in French that was about strength training. So then I said, "Okay, I've got to learn English." And I, I distinctly remember having to look up what bicep peak meant, like I said. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 7:48 [laughs]

Speaker 7:48 So I would use the English dictionary. I said, "A bicep peak?" And then I remember peak as in peak of a mountain. And I go, then I go, "Okay, it's a figure of speech," blah, blah, blah. And then so I learnt e- everything in English, uh, rather quickly because I had passion. And then I realized that all the best stuff was in German, so I decided to learn German, and that's how I started. I, I al- always, always wanted to be ahead of the game. So I always figured out who's the best teachers and then learn from them. And I remember at, I was 21, I would save my money up, and I went to Germany to meet Rolf Faser, who I took the, uh, German volume training from. And I would see all the experts. Then I went to Finland to meet Paavo Komi, and I met Pete Marczewski, Bleeker. So whoever was the best at the time, I went to learn from them. So, uh, you know, that's how I started actually.

Tim Ferriss 8:39 And you have just a, an astonishing memory, a factual recall ability.

Speaker 8:44 Mm-hmm. Mm.

Tim Ferriss 8:45 Is that something that, uh, your parents also had?

Speaker 8:49 My father, uh, spoke 14 languages, so-

Tim Ferriss 8:51 [laughs]

Speaker 8:53 ... I guess he did, uh, uh, have a great memory. I think that's, uh ... I l- I basically taught myself how to read. Uh, my parents realized I knew how to read before I went to school. So the way I figured it out is that, you know, we had a lot of ... I was the fifth out of eight boys, so there was a lot of books around, a lot of comic books in French. And there would be, like, these, uh, word, uh, illustrated dictionary books.

Tim Ferriss 9:19 Right.

Speaker 9:19 S- so let's say I saw fire truck, you know, in French, camions de pompiers. Then I said, "Okay, the code for fire truck is this." And then after that, I started to read a comic strip called Asterix. And-

Tim Ferriss 9:30 Oh, great, great comic strip.

Speaker 9:31 [laughs] So my father came back from Paris, and he told my mom, "Yeah, he's pretending he knows how to read." And my mom said, "No, he knows how to read." And she goes, "That's impossible. He, he has a good memory. He, his brothers read to him, and he, he just recites like a, you know, parrot, parakeet." And then she goes, "No." She goes, "I, I have the ultimate test." So the French edition always came out six months before the Canadian edition. And since my father knew that all his boys like Asterix, he would always buy the latest Asterix. So he pulled it out. He says, "Read this." And I read it, and he was astonished I could read it. And then my mom said, "I told you. He, he taught himself how to read." So, uh, apparently, my oldest brother did the same thing. So it's, uh, I just wanted to learn. I was bored to death, so I, I would pick up reading.

Tim Ferriss 10:16 [laughs] That's, that's incredible. I... Did your brothers also have an interest in strength training, or was, uh, were you the, the odd one of the group?

Speaker 10:25 Uh, [laughs] my brothers' interests are quite different than mine. I, I ... I'm the odd one in the family.

Tim Ferriss 10:31 Got it. And, um, I'm gonna, uh, ask a, ask a question, the wording of which might be a little weird. But I, I think you're known for quite a few different things. What do your best friends think you're world-class at that perhaps the rest of the world doesn't know?

Speaker 10:47 Probably, uh, people say that I'm the best friend to have, the worst enemy to, to have. So they all say that I'll, I'll jump in front of a bullet for them. But before I jump in front of the bullet, I'd rather kill the guy myself.

Tim Ferriss 11:00 [laughs]

Speaker 11:02 So, [laughs] so, but, uh, people say that, um, w- the most, uh, uh, the compliment I appreciate the most is when people say to me, "I wish I had a father like you." So when they see me interact with my daughter and the way she behaves and the way she learns, and they said, uh ... And I'm really well known to teach people how to have confidence. That's what they say I'm world-class at. So for example, I had a friend of mine. She's a single mother. She, her, her kid's dad was absent. So she left him with me for the day. And when she came back, the kid knew how to swim and knew how to ride a bicycle without training wheels. And she goes, "You did that in a whole day?" I said, "Well, teaching how to swim without fear takes five minutes." She goes, "Are you serious?" And I told her how I d- teach it. And she goes, "Wow, that's very simple." So, uh, I guess I'm world-class at solving problems. Uh, and at ... People love my cooking, anybody that's been to my house. But, you know, I cook man food, you know? So-

Tim Ferriss 12:00 [laughs]

Speaker 12:00 ... for example, I, I make a chili with yak, uh, buffalo, and elk, and ostrich. And, you know, people have six, seven servings. They feel like cage.

Tim Ferriss 12:09 [laughs]

Speaker 12:10 But, you know, I like to, I like to cook. I think that's a, a great way to be creative. Um, uh, I guess being creative is one of my biggest assets. Um, I, um... And I, I love to take, like, a recipe and then improve it, you know? So, uh, I'm not one to stick to rules so much.

Tim Ferriss 12:32 W- what is your... So your, your chili sounds like the Noah's Ark chili.

Speaker 12:36 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 12:36 It's got like a bit of every animal imaginable. [laughs] So what, what is, what are the ingredients in the chili? What's the key to making good chili?

Speaker 12:43 I think the key to making good chili is actually blending the meats. For example, ostrich is a really high iron content, but you might as well chew on a Eleiko barbell plate when you eat the ostrich, right?

Tim Ferriss 12:54 [laughs]

Speaker 12:54 It's, it's... So, and then y- I take, I use something with a higher fat content, uh, like the yak, and then that kind of offsets it. And I used to use elk, but elk for a lot of people tends to be too gamey, right?

Tim Ferriss 13:08 Yep.

Speaker 13:08 Uh, but when you b- but I have a buffalo, it kind of equals it out. So, uh, and I've played with ratios over the years, but I think I've got the recipe down pat. But the, the, the secret is it- the yak. I think the yak makes a huge difference on the, on the palatability of the meal.

Tim Ferriss 13:24 Got it. And is that, that's the partially thanks to the fat content?

Speaker 13:29 Yeah, and also because, y- you know, all the animals I pick tend to have, um, higher omega-3 fat in them because of what they eat. I mean, the best meat to eat in the world is wapiti, which is a type of deer that, uh, lives in northeastern Canada, and you can only shoot it from a helicopter because there's no roads to where the wapiti lives. And that meat is chased by wolves all day. So besides the fact that it eats grass taller than the animal itself, which is really high in omega-3, the animal is chased multiple times a day by, uh, wolf packs, which makes the animal make glycogen, which makes the meat, uh, fatty and sweet at the same time.

Tim Ferriss 14:08 Oh, wow.

Speaker 14:08 You know, it's like a, it's almost like a fudge in the meat. [laughs] So-

Tim Ferriss 14:12 Yeah

Speaker 14:12 ... uh, but the problem is, is you're not allowed to import it into the US, so I only make it when I go see my folks in Canada.

Tim Ferriss 14:20 Got it. Yeah, you have, have to, uh, pretty high barrier to entry if it requires a helicopter ride and-

Speaker 14:25 [laughs] Yeah

Tim Ferriss 14:25 ... and sniping skills from the air. [laughs]

Speaker 14:28 Basically. So it, it, you know, when I go to Montreal, I know where to buy it, and there's a place where my sister lives in Gatineau where they have it in stock year-round. Uh, but it, it is the best meat. If you ever come and see me or in Montreal area, I'll take you to eat that meat.

Tim Ferriss 14:44 Oh, I'd love to. Love to do that. I've never been to Montreal. They have very good tango there as well from what I hear. But, um, the, um, the next, the next question's kind of a, a sidestep, but you, you have these, these little nuggets, and I remember one question that I get asked a lot you had answers to, which was how to get rid of stretch marks. So what happens quite often is I'll, uh, people will follow any given diet or maybe the di-

Speaker 15:08 Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 15:08 ... one of the diets in the 4-Hour Body or whatever.

Speaker 15:10 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 15:10 And they'll lose a lot of weight, and then they'll have this loose skin or stretch marks to contend with. Um, how do you recommend people, uh, mitigate or, or get rid of stretch marks or, or loose skin? What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 15:24 I mean, if you're the type of guy that's lost so much weight that you can actually windsurf with your, uh, scrotum-

Tim Ferriss 15:29 [laughs]

Speaker 15:30 ... uh, then here's the solution. The, the... There's an herb called gotu kola, and that herb will... And I learned this from Mauro Di Pasquale, who's one of my early mentors.

Tim Ferriss 15:42 Yep.

Speaker 15:43 Will get rid of what we call unnecessary scar tissue or unnec- unnecessary connective tissue. The truth of the matter, though, is that you will see zero progress, uh, for the loose skin, uh, for six months. So people say, "Well, it's not worth it." But I, I tell people, "Just keep doing it for six months," and then it's almost like overnight. There seems to be a saturation point where then the, the body gets the message to cell signaling, and then in a matter of days... I've had, for example, people who look like they have, uh, 15% body fat, and they're actually 6% body fat when you measure them on a DEXA scan. And then when they do this, uh, supplement for an extended period of time, which is two tablets, uh, three times a day, then, uh, overnight they tighten up. Uh, you know?

Tim Ferriss 16:36 Got it.

Speaker 16:36 And it's, this is not an exaggeration. Everybody who's tried it said, "Yeah, it's, it's exactly what it is." I mean, I had a... One of my sh- best students who was a former pro bodybuilder, he had a, a client come in, and he weighed 480 pounds, and he decided to lose weight because he would, you know, select his clothes the night before, and he realized his pants covered a whole bed.

Tim Ferriss 16:57 [laughs]

Speaker 16:58 So, so he, he went to this gym, and after a year and a half, he was down to 200 pounds. So he had lost 280 pounds, but, I mean, the, there's enough loose skin to bury five cadavers inside of him. So we, um... I told my friend, "Just give him that." And a year later, I met that guy. He was so thankful for that trick. He goes, he finally got rid of the loose skin. So, uh, gotu kola is the herb you want to use for that.

Tim Ferriss 17:23 Got it. G-O-T-U K-O-L-A, is that how you say it?

Speaker 17:26 Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's two separate words, yes.

Tim Ferriss 17:28 And, uh, are you using anything topically as well, or is it all, uh, consumed, all consumable?

Speaker 17:34 There are some compounding pharmacists that will make you a gotu kola, uh, bioabsorbable cream. That works a lot faster. I, I would say if you could find a co- compounding pharmacist that will do that, and it's a biologically active form, uh, you could get the same results in about two to three months. In Canada in the early '80s, you could actually buy this as a prescription.

Tim Ferriss 17:56 Got it.

Speaker 17:56 But, but it wasn't popular. That's what Mauro used to recommend. And then when the cream, uh, fell out of the marketplace, the, the best alternative was to use the oral.

Tim Ferriss 18:06 I see. And then this is, you seem to find, uh, be- because you have so many contacts and you work with so many coaches, not only coaches, but also doctors in different countries, I'm, I'm constantly astonished by the, um, I wouldn't say shortcuts, but just, um, very elegant approaches that you can find to all of these different problems. What are, what are things that you believe that most other people think are crazy?

Speaker 18:36 Uh, I think that ... Well, now, okay, you, we all know about the Chinese five elements, correct?

Tim Ferriss 18:43 Right.

Speaker 18:44 And then-

Tim Ferriss 18:45 Well, may- maybe you could give an overview for folks who aren't familiar, but, uh, yeah.

Speaker 18:48 Okay. Okay, so in Chinese medicine, they believe there's five elements that regulate, uh, health. Fire, water, earth, metal, and, um, met- um, metal and water. So the, the point is, is that, so in Chinese medicine, they'll describe a condition as, let's say, excessive fire or not enough fire or fire deficiency or water excess. W- and this was very poetic, but now science has backed up what it means. So in Chinese medicine, for example, osteoporosis and adrenal fatigue are the same thing, while in Western medicine it's not. So years ago, I'd observed that train ... The training of athletes has to be individualized. So for example, you know, when you talk, like, let's say about squat, two of my favorite people on, on Earth are Ed Coan and John Broz, and they know how to get a big squat. But if you look at the way they get you to have a big squat, it's diametrically opposed. But the, the key is not to say, well, one is better than the other. What the key is, is what is best for you. And I, I studied the Chinese medicine approach on it. What I've figured out is that it's actually a neurotransmitter dominance, if you want to explain it into the modern world. So some athletes make a lot of dopamine. They need a lot of variation in their workouts. They need to go balls to walls every workout. Uh, but they need variation. If they don't have variation every workout, they don't make progress. While some people are what I call earth type, which have ... don't have a, any dominance, and then they, they, they're more like Thomas the Tank Engine. It's slow progress. All the training methods is based on patience. They never miss a lift, you know, and that method works for them. And in bodybuilding, you've seen that. You've seen it in every sport. Well, even, even look at wrestling. I coach three girls on our national team, and one is dopamine dom- dominant, and she's like a, a mongoose on PCP when she fights.

Tim Ferriss 20:53 [laughs]

Speaker 20:55 [laughs] You know? She's really hard to predict what she does. And then you have, you know, acetylcholine dominant one, where she's, she has a style that, uh, confuses people. And then I have a earth type wrestler who's number one in the world right now, and she's very patient when she fights. And, you know, she'll arm block you, and then she waits, she waits, she waits, and she tires you out. And she's not, uh, dominant in any neurotransmitters, which would make her, her earth type, you know? So over the ... So now people, when I start to talk about the elements, people say, "Oh, he's a granola head, bullshitter," blah, blah, blah. And then now my most popular course is actually advanced program design. And if you look at the reviews on my website, people say, "That's the, the fastest way to individualize the training process." I'm really big on individualization. I think that people want a cookie cutter approach, and they don't like the fact that when I answer a question ... You know, if you ask me a question, "What's the best way to screw a screw?" I'll say, "A screwdriver." And they'll say, "Why didn't you say a saw?" Well, I don't have time to explain to you that a screwdriver is the best tool. So I've been considered rigid in my, um, approach, but I'm not. I've done a lot of trial and error. But if you're gonna ask me for, uh, a solution, I'll tell you the quickest way to get there. I, I, I don't, I don't have time to educate everybody, you know?

Tim Ferriss 22:16 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 22:16 So-

Tim Ferriss 22:17 And w- with the neurotransmitter dominance, how do you determine, or how does one determine, uh, if, which category they fall into?

Speaker 22:26 Actually, I think ... I mean, there's been a lot of efforts clinically to do, let's say, saliva work or urine work. And even the labs who've done the research says it's kind of, uh, useless, okay? So if you look at Kathrine Wilner, who has won the, the Nobel Prize for functional medicine, she is a big advocate of, um, the Braverman test, which you could download for free. Uh, you just Google Eric Braverman, the Braverman test, and it's a multiple, uh, a question and answer type of, uh, format. And I found, she found, and so did Bill Balik, who's another neurotransmitter expert, they found it to be the, actually the most accurate, uh, test. But you can only do it once in your life, and because if you redo the, the questionnaire, you know the questions, and then you'll, there'll be an internal bias to the answer. But if you answer it truthfully, um, and then what you find is that this true complete dominance is rather rare. But you will find that you're, say, more firewood or what I call dopamine acetylcholine dependent, so you need both. And there's always a limiting factor when you do the test. So you could have, let's say, be Johnny Dopamine, but you lack GABA. So y- your biggest limiting factor is you can't have what we call centered calmness, you know, which is what the GABA is a neurotransmitter for. So, or it could be dopamine dominant, like uber dopamine boy, but what happens is that you have no serotonin, so you don't have any fun in your life. And the fact [laughs] that you don't have any fun is actually a, a limiting factor to, to your progress. So I think it, you know- They say know yourself. Uh, uh, yeah, that's the first thing you should do. So I, when I teach the class, I, I make all my students do the test, and then for three days I explain how to individualize depending on what physical quality you want. So let's say if you want to get big and you're dopamine de- dependent, this is how you should do it. And then I give the in-betweens. And then the most common comment is, "Now the progress I achieve with my students or my clients is much faster." And, you know, for years, I remember when I wa- I had my facility in Phoenix, I would have, let's say 10 hockey players training at the same time, and the guys would look at each other's program, and they thought maybe I had some favorites, and I did. Uh, uh, everybody had their best program for them, you know?

Tim Ferriss 24:55 Right.

Speaker 24:55 Uh, so the, uh ... I think that's one of the keys to success. I mean, there's a lot of ways to get there, but you got to find what's the best way for you, you know? Um, I mean, if you look ... Go ahead.

Tim Ferriss 25:09 Oh, no, I was just gonna say, I think you also touched on something that's very important, which is the testing effect.

Speaker 25:15 Mm.

Tim Ferriss 25:15 So you'll ... In so many different areas of life, whether it's athletics, academics, uh, even very smart people make the mistake of looking at someone who, say, or a cohort of people who take the same test multiple times-

Speaker 25:30 Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 25:30 ... and they assume that some type of intervention, whether it's a supplement or a training program, is improving their performance. But it's like, no, you have to, you have to at least ask the question, what if they're only getting better at the test, right?

Speaker 25:42 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 25:42 And, and, and that, that, that ... I think that is probably has a lot of implications for di- diagnosis with, with athletes as well. I don't, I don't know. But-

Speaker 25:51 I mean, yourself, you're the epitome of self-testing, right? [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 25:54 Yeah.

Speaker 25:54 So I mean, that's one of your, uh, keys to success. You're willing to be the lab rat for all of us, right? So e- the advantage with me is I've had a lot of lab rats who wanted to go to the Olympics, and I tried different things. But, you know, one of the critiques I often get is you're not scientific or you don't like science. Well, here's my answer to these detractors. Clinical experience out- uh, beats, uh, cl- um, research studies. I'll give you an example. In February 2008, in the Journal of Applied, uh, Strength and Conditioning, there was a paper, Cluster Training: A Novel Approach to Strength Training or the Development of Relative Strength. Okay, that's February 2008. I learned how to do cluster training in 1975. I was 14 years old. So if ... I used cluster training with all the sports where I needed relative strength. I started to be a strength coach in '78. So if you look at it, uh, the difference between '78 and 2008 is very big. Quite a few Olympics in between, right? Do you agree? So if you look at that, if I waited for research to do the right type of training that produced Olympic medalist, I would have wasted about a few dozen Olympics, right? [laughs] So the thing is that, and if you include, uh, winter and summer. So the point is that when the article came out, I said, "That's interesting. It's novel," 2008. So I asked my coach, "Where did you learn about cluster training?" He says, "I learned it in '68-

Tim Ferriss 27:27 [laughs]

Speaker 27:28 ... in Paris." And I said, "Okay. Where do you think it came from?" And we did some background research, and we think it was first developed by a Bulgarian coach in 1948. Okay? So then we add about 60 years, uh, of between when the clinician developed the method and when the research was actually done, right? So for example, I used to re- early on, I've been recommending high dosages of fish oil, 30 to 45 grams, and then the biggest amount of research, uh, fish oil used in research at the time was seven grams with, uh, med school students. And then I convinced Mark Houston, who's an MD, to use high dosages. And then he says, "Wow, it's really good for dyslipidemia, high blood pressure, cardiovascular risk, and it doubled my business." I said, "Why did it double your business, Mark?" "Well, because my patients are losing fat, and now people are coming in for fat loss and not for [laughs] treating, uh, vascular disorders." And five or seven years after I convinced him, there was a Canadian research paper that came out that said to treat obesity, the best dose of fish oil was 60 grams.

Tim Ferriss 28:38 Wow.

Speaker 28:38 And, and that, uh, Ma- Mark sent me an email, and the title was Clinicians Always Ahead of the Curve. And he says, "I don't know if you read the study," and he showed it to me. And then the, the interesting thing was is that why did I come out with 30 to 45 grams of fish oil? Okay, I did not have peer-reviewed, uh, studies, but the human genome evolved most dramatically once we got our omega-3s to 300 to 400 grams per week. You know, we used to eat, uh, animal brains, and we used to suck on femurs of, uh, antelopes and stuff like that. And when the human start to ingest a lot of omega-3s, particularly DHA, our brains develop very fast. We were able to develop tools and so on. So a lot of the stuff I do may not be peer-reviewed based, but in essence, basic science is basic science, you know? And then if you, if your principles are sound, then, and, uh, to, to, to be frank, I don't really give a shit about the detractors because, you know, uh, research always backed me up, but sometimes 20 to 40 years after I've done it. So clin- clinical experience, uh, you can't beat that.

Tim Ferriss 29:49 Yeah. And I, and I, I, I think it's important also for people to realize that the, there's a value and a place for peer-reviewed placebo-controlled studies, but they're also very slow. They require funding. Uh, there are a lot of regulations in, in different areas, uh, related to those types of studies. And like you said, science is not a ... a study. Science is, scientific thinking is scientific thinking, right? I mean, you're forming a-

Speaker 30:14 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 30:14 ... hypothesis, you're testing that hypothesis, trying to disprove it, looking at alternative explanations for the outcome, and kind of rinsing and repeating. So I, I, I think that it's, uh ... There's a really good book on this called Bad Science by a guy named-

Speaker 30:28 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 30:28 ... Ben Goldacre that-

Speaker 30:29 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 30:29 ... I think everybody should be required to read just so they can parse, um, kind of the sensationalist bullshit that they see in, say, the newspaper from what the real science actually says. Uh, quick question on the fish oil. Is there-

Speaker 30:42 Uh, just, uh, just on that, furthermore, I think it should be, uh, required reading to have a Facebook account because this way you would stop making those dumb comments [laughs] if you read that book. And instead of ... Because, you know, I, I agree 100% with you. The other thing too is that we don't know if one of the subjects did ecstasy on a weekend and stayed up. You know, there's a lot of shit we can't control. So, um, uh, yes, you do have to have a scientific basis to what you do, and I'm in full agreement.

Tim Ferriss 31:13 Yeah.

Speaker 31:13 Uh, continue.

Tim Ferriss 31:14 Well, what, what's also kind of frustrating for me is that, uh, people give so much credence to, say, long- longitudinal observational studies-

Speaker 31:23 Mm

Tim Ferriss 31:23 ... when ... that are depending on people self-reporting when they can remember or misremember whatever they write down. But they discount the sort of small sample size experimental studies that, for instance, you've been doing with athletes for decades.

Speaker 31:37 Mm.

Tim Ferriss 31:37 Uh, it's very, very frustrating. Uh, but the, um, quick question on the, on the fish oil is, uh, is there any risk of, uh, a- any type of intestinal bleeding or anything like that with extremely high, uh, what, what most people would consider high dosages of fish oil?

Speaker 31:54 I've never seen it, but when I use fish oil in high dosages, I never use it more than six months. The reason why I found that I don't need to go longer than six months is in six months you should have attained your body composition goal. But if you do free fatty acid profiles, uh, on a regular basis, you find that after six months everything is pretty well set, and then you only do... need a maintenance. And if the person eats a lot of wild meat, a lot of, uh, sea products, I, I give them no fish oil. So for example, myself, uh, from May to October, I don't take any fish oil because I'm back home, I eat the wild meat I like to eat. I eat the fish, blah, blah, blah. But of course, if I go to England where their concept of a steak is more like a hockey puck-

Tim Ferriss 32:41 [laughs]

Speaker 32:43 ... yeah, you, you won't, you won't have good omega-3 supply. But even, uh, you know, I get regular blood work and I found that for me at age 54 when I am on a fish oil program, it's two grams a day, which is nothing, right? But, you know, the every s- single gene in the human genome has a receptor site for omega-3s. So Mauro Di Pasquale taught me this in '94. He says, "If you look at any medical scientific database, it is impossible not to find a study where omega-3s alleviates symptoms of all disease known to man." And I said, "That's bullshit." So he had, uh, his own database. He had 8 million scientific references. He says, "Punch in whatever you want." So punch preeclampsia. I told him come up with anything you like, uh, ADD, ADHD, uh, trisomic children, whatever. And then in every single, uh, ailment I punched in with the keyword omega-3, I found at least one study. Okay? But I redid the, the, the test two years ago, and the minimum amount of studies I found where there's a beneficial outcome with omega-3 therapy was 14 for any disease I could punch in. So, uh, you know, D3, omega-3, and thyroid are necessary for every gene in the human genome. That's what we know so far. Uh, there's probably more, but, um, uh, as far as intestinal bleeding, clinically I've used very high dosages, like 60 grams, and I've never seen it. But maybe it's the whoever you work with. I tend to work with healthier than average, uh, population. And but then again, you know, according to Dr. Rakowski, only 2 to 3% of Americans would be considered healthy.

Tim Ferriss 34:35 [laughs] Oh, God. Yeah. The... N- now speaking of, um, you, you mentioned Mauro Di Pasquale. So he, I think, introduced me first to what h- what he was calling the anabolic diet when I was-

Speaker 34:48 Correct

Tim Ferriss 34:48 ... when I was in high school. Uh, which if I'm remembering correctly, it was, um, on some level a cyclical ketogenic diet. Uh, am I... I, I don't think I'm butchering that, but-

Speaker 35:00 No

Tim Ferriss 35:00 ... I, I, I was also introduced to your writing through Muscle Media 2000-

Speaker 35:06 Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 35:06 ... way back in the early days. Uh, what have you changed your mind about over time? What are, uh, what are things that you've most ch- changed your mind about over, over the last, you know, decade or two?

Speaker 35:18 The most important thing that I've learned about nutrition is you need to deserve your carbs. So if you look at the world average carbohydrate intake should be about 40%. That would be healthy carbohydrate. That's the average. It's not the individual. So if you're dealing with an Inuit from Tuktoyaktuk in the Canadian North, healthy carbohydrate intake for him is probably 2% because he eats whale blubber, narwhal, uh, seal, and so on. So I had a guy who played in the AHL. He was fat, and I said, "You know, you're a native, uh, Inuit. Why don't you eat like a native Inuit when you go back home?" And he went, and he went from a, some, like, a 21% body fat to a 6% body fat eating 70% fat and 30% protein and zero carbohydrates, right? So I find that you, you have to figure out what's your set point for carbohydrates, but most people eat too many carbohydrates or actually drink too many carbohydrates, and then they eat carbohydrates but eat the wrong type. People perceive me as a carbohydrate guy Nazi and not, you know, or anti-carbohydrate Nazi. The thing is, is that I've got some of my athletes who do best on 70% carbs, 20% protein, 10% fat, but they deserve their carbohydrates. They got a great pancreas. They're insulin sensitive, blah, blah, blah. They've got a lot of muscle mass. But some athletes, you know, they are allowed 10 licks of a dried prune every six months.

Tim Ferriss 36:43 [laughs]

Speaker 36:44 That's, [laughs] that's all they deserve, and that's all they'll get. And after six months, they're actually allowed to look at calendar pictures of cakes, you know?

Tim Ferriss 36:51 [laughs]

Speaker 36:52 Once a week. But, but I think that the, the most important thing I learned from Mauro is that ... I remember asking Mauro this question. He, he's one of the best people I've ever had the chance, you know, and the honor to talk to, and he told me, he says, "In nutrition, there's what we call the 70% rule," and I find that to be true in training. 70% of the advice is good for 70% ... I mean, 7% ... The advice is only good for 70% of the population, and yet you got 15% on each side that are outliers. So the 70% rule for carbohydrates should be 40% if you are healthy. Okay?

Tim Ferriss 37:29 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 37:29 And then some of the guys do very well on 70%. Okay? So, uh, I think that you, you have to monitor yourself with things like your morning insulin, your morning glucose, your reactive insulin test, your HB1AC. You do those four tests, and you start with a starting point, and, uh, you do these tests for the ... Every eight weeks would be enough, and then you'll find what's best for you. That's what I tell my students to do. Uh, and then-

Tim Ferriss 38:02 Could you, could you elaborate on the, each of those tests just so people can ... Uh, and, and we'll put this in the show notes as well, but I think, I think people would love to know, uh, if, if you could just go through those, those bullets a- and just describe a little bit for context each of those ... uh, well, the purpose of each of those tests.

Speaker 38:18 Well, morning glucose, morning insulin, you know, are basal tests. So it gives you a reference value. But one thing you have to be wary of is what we call the norms. When you think norms, you should think of Homer Simpson. Okay? So for example, morning glucose, the norms according to most American labs is 70 to 99 in the morning. Okay? That's after a 12-hour fast. The problem is, is that your risk of cardiovascular disease increases 5% after every single digit above 70. So in other words, you could have 99 and be in a normal range, but your cardiovascular risk is actually 145% greater than if it was 70, right?

Tim Ferriss 39:03 Right.

Speaker 39:03 So, so there's a difference between normal and optimal. Okay? So, uh, I'd rather you have 70 than to be between 70 and, and 99. The, the next value I like to check is, um, HB1AC, which is basically measures how much your hemoglobin, which is your oxygen carrying molecule, has been damaged by glucose. And then, uh, when ... Depending on the country, you know, the alarm point is set differently. Some people it's 5.9, some people it's at 6.9, but the, the truth of the matter is the lower your score is, the better it is. That means you have less damage done to your hemoglobin. But it ... What's interesting is that, you know, when you cut ... It's a, it's a lie detector test for carbohydrate intake. So in other words, you come to see me. Let's say you bring a friend who's obese, and you say, "Charles, take care of him." And I do that test, and he's 5.9, and he goes on a low carb diet, and he shows up at 6.1 six weeks later, well, he's a bullshitter, I just ... because [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 40:04 [laughs]

Speaker 40:04 You know? The ... You cannot fake that test. The, the ... So one thing that I found over the years w- is that actually the amount of magnesium, supplemental magnesium you consume is the fastest way to drop that value. So magnesium is probably one of the best anti-aging, uh, minerals. And they say that basically you age at the rate you produce insulin. So the HB1AC will t- tell me what was your average insulin over the last three months. You know? So that's a good key. And another test I really like is the reactive insulin test. So you submit blood, uh, for the morning draw, and then you eat two rice cakes with, um, jam on it, uh, let's say a tablespoon of jam. And then you wait one hour, and you measure your postprandial, uh, insulin, so after the meal. And then that value should be about between 12 and 17. If it's above that, you could have norming, normal morning insulin, but the problem is, is that normal morning insulin is like having a normal ECG. It's quite possible that you have a normal ECG at rest, but you exercise for 10 seconds, and your ECG is all over the place, right? So, uh, an organ, you can only see it's really healthy if you stress it. Okay? So when you give a dose of really fast carbohydrates in the morning, and your ins- insulin goes through the roof, it means that you don't have a good panc- uh, pancake, pancreatic health, and your insulin resistance is horrendous. So I like that test. But we found, for example, in a lot of physique competitors, they got great morning, uh, glucose and insulin. But when you do the reactive test, they fail miserably. So, you know, so what they ... A lot of things that make them lean is not actually s- so healthy for them. So I, I, I think the reactive insulin test is the most underrated test, uh, in health.

Tim Ferriss 42:07 And how should people select their doctor, the person that will help them administer these tests? 'Cause you and I know there's, there's the good, the bad, and the ugly. I remember this MD friend of mine said, uh, P equals MD, you know, pass equals MD, [laughs] and-

Speaker 42:21 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Tim Ferriss 42:21 ... uh, th- there are a lot of shitty doctors out there. There are also some great doctors, but h- how ... How would you suggest someone find a doctor who can competently administer and interpret these tests?

Speaker 42:32 I think the best g- way to find them over the years is I go to acam.org. So it's the American College for the Advancement of Medicine. It's the college that certifies people do chelation therapy, uh, to treat, uh, vascular disease. What I found is that the guys who have an interest for that therapy tend to have an interest on functional medicine. So there's a good... it's a good cross-reference. It's not 100%, uh, but when I tell my students who are asking e- the exact same question as you to do that, they, in more than 9 out of 10 cases, they report that they're very happy with that new doctor. Um, the thing is, is that the length of time they spent with you on the first visit is probably your best indicator. I find the best doctors out there take about two hours to do a medical history. Uh, another way to find a good one is just ask around. I mean, when people ask me, they said, "Do you know somebody here?" And I say, "Yeah, I know a guy." So in most large American cities, I find some of them. But for example, recently, I had a student of mine from Luxembourg, uh, who's an MD, and I got talking to him, and I, I realized how way ahead of the curve he was. So there was, you know, a lot of students in a class from 14 different European countries. I say, "You guys are looking for a good doctor, go see him." And then a female doctor from the Netherlands, and she was very open-minded, and, you know, she really was looking for c- a different way to treat, uh, her patients. And then I... So I found somebody in Holland then. So there, there's a lot of good people, but the best is to ask around. But one of the key points is that if they don't do a two-hour medical history, uh, you're not at the right place.

Tim Ferriss 44:17 Yeah, no, this is, this is, uh, I think worth digging into a little bit because, uh, for instance, I mean, one of the red flags for me, and I'm not a doctor, don't play one on the internet.

Speaker 44:24 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 44:25 But I've, I've, uh, broken myself enough [laughs]

Speaker 44:27 Mm-hmm. Yeah

Tim Ferriss 44:28 ... and done enough experiments that I've, I've, I've, uh, h- had a chance to sample a lot of doctors at the-

Speaker 44:33 Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 44:33 ... kind of medical buffet.

Speaker 44:34 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 44:34 And, um, whenever I have someone respond very definitively to a single blood test-

Speaker 44:40 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 44:40 ... I always get very worried.

Speaker 44:42 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 44:42 Um, they... If they don't ask if I had anything to drink, if I didn't... if I did or did not do a workout before-

Speaker 44:48 Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 44:48 ... the test. If they don't ask some of those questions, um, and they're simply trying to prescribe some type of medication, say, to address, uh, slightly depressed-

Speaker 44:57 Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 44:57 ... testosterone-

Speaker 44:58 Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 44:58 ... well, they're, they're not doing their homework, right? They're not really doing their detective work properly. Um, at least th- if... That's my preference. But are there any other kind of red flags or pet peeves that you would use to disqualify doctors?

Speaker 45:11 Well, I would truly agree with you. Here's a classic example. There's someone that you and I both know, uh, sends me an email freaking out. He's been diagnosed with cardiovascular disease, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, "Send me your blood work." So he sends it to me. And again, I'm not a doctor, but I asked him, "Hey, let me guess. You ate before the test, and you had a 36 set, 12 reps per workout, uh, per exercise before you did the test." And he goes, "How'd you know?" "Well, because of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And I said, "That test is not valid. Redo the test, 12-hour fast, and then send it to me, and I'll find you the, the right doctor." So, [laughs] you know, the, the, the point is, is that the, the doctor who read the test told him he was going to die.

Tim Ferriss 45:54 [laughs]

Speaker 45:54 And I said, and I said, "No, because you've biased the test by doing these two stupid things. And the doctor should have asked you, did you exercise? Did you eat before the meal?" Was that it? You know, whatever. So, um, and, and I agree with you 100%, Tim. The... There's some basic questions that they should ask to eliminate error. You know, one thing that I in- insist on is that they always do it 12... exactly 12 hours after the last bite. Why? Because I want pre and post measures that are valid. Because, you know, you could... your glu- morning glucose could be all over the place because you fasted an extra two hours.

Tim Ferriss 46:30 Yeah.

Speaker 46:30 And it's not valid.

Tim Ferriss 46:31 Yeah, totally agree. And this is, this is... I, I... and I, I don't want to harp on this too much, but I think it's really important, so it's worth underscoring for people, and that is the... Well, let me bitch for a second first.

Speaker 46:43 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 46:43 In that the, the same people who would criticize you for not-

Speaker 46:46 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 46:47 ... uh, sort of walking a, a strict line with clinical studies-

Speaker 46:51 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 46:52 ... are the same people who don't pay attention to any of these variables-

Speaker 46:55 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 46:55 ... when they're dealing with their patients directly. And it, it's just... it makes me insane because you have to control these variables. Like you said, it can't... you can't have one blood test six hours after you ate because you had a late night and ate a burrito after getting shit-faced.

Speaker 47:09 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 47:09 And then the next time, do it on a Wednesday after no drinking, after a 12-hour fast. You c- those... that's apples to oranges, and you're not going to be able to get any good data out of that. Um, but the, um... For, for people out there, I mean, the one thing that I've always asked friends, because f- I, I've... People come to me just as they... your friends come to you.

Speaker 47:30 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 47:30 And they're like, "Oh my God, I'm freaking out. My doctor wants to do A, B, C, D and E." And like I said, everybody, just so, so I don't have to deal with the stupid, um, legal issues, I'm not a doctor.

Speaker 47:39 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 47:40 But what, what... Well, what I'll, what I'll ask is I'll say, "Well, when did you take... What day of the week did you take the last test, and when did you take this test?" And, and lo and behold, it, it's almost always like after a, a shitty three days of, of sleep, or it's after, uh, binge drinking for two nights and their testosterone drops 200 points. And also the blood test was done at, say like 10:00 AM instead of 8:00 AM. And I'm like, all right, well, [laughs] like you can't... You have to have some standardization for these numbers to be meaningful in any way.

Speaker 48:11 It's very true because y- y- alcohol, for example, if, you know, I used to train a lot of, uh, pro athletes, but they would... they have, let's say, a stag party in Vegas. [laughs] What goes on in Vegas stays in Vegas. But by Monday when they- ... gave blood work, I could tell they were in Vegas. Just, you know, and there's things like, for example, a massage could throw your CPK through the roof if it was fairly aggressive. And then people say, "Well, you know, you, you c- you have a kidney issue," or whatever they... their bias is. And for example, in the liver enzymes, I get this one all the time, "My liver enzymes are elevated." So then I tell... I send this study from Sweden. People who lift weights three days a week have chronically 20% higher than normal l- uh, elevations in liver enzymes, and it's non-pathological. So [laughs] I say, "Show that to your doctor before they put you on some liver drug," you know? So the, the, there's a... The thing though is that it's not the doctor's fault. The, the... Like you say, P equals MD. So the thing is is that they, they're not forced to keep up with the literature, and we know that the books they study in medical school are already nine years outdated. For example, if you look at Blastocystis hominis, if you look at the-

Tim Ferriss 49:28 I'm, I'm sorry. If we look at... What was that?

Speaker 49:29 Blastocystis hominis, one of the intestinal, uh, pathogen.

Tim Ferriss 49:33 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 49:34 You... According to the most recent book on parasitology, it's not bad for you, it should not be treated. But there's good studies done on, uh, Iraq War veterans that show that that, uh, intestinal pathogen leads to gen- degeneration of eyesight, uh, because it blocks the absorption of vitamin A, and it also leads to, uh, degeneration of joints. But there's two good papers that are published in '94 that are not in the book of parasitology, but so it... We're like in 2015, and the research was done in '94, and it's not even in the current books that medical students read. So a lot of people have, you know, could have bad eyesight or osteoarthritis from untreated intestinal pathogen, you know? And then they tell me there's no research on that. Uh, there is research. I mean, the thing... O- one of the most common comments is, "There's no research on that." Uh, dude, did you even try to look at it? So [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 50:33 [laughs]

Speaker 50:34 You know, and then there's... For example, there was some guy on... harping on that my dosages of leucine were too high. They, they were not backed up by research. Well, the two best research papers on leucine in really hard training people were done by the same group of researchers in France. They only published the results in French. So I can't blame for the guy to say he didn't read... He could say at least I didn't read anything on it, but to say that it doesn't exist is a lie because it did exist, you know?

Tim Ferriss 51:01 Where, where are your favorite sort of go-to sources for doing searches for research? I mean, there's PubMed, of course.

Speaker 51:08 But-

Tim Ferriss 51:08 Uh, but, but, um, what, what, what are sort of your go-to top sources?

Speaker 51:13 Actually, my top source is PubMed, but the thing is is that you have to learn a few things about how to search. For example, schisandra berry, which is a great herb, uh, to treat, uh, too much oxidation in the liver, right? Well, there's 88 synonyms for it in the literature. Uh, if you look at, uh, holy basil, it has so many different names. So what I use is, uh, a product called The Natural, uh, Database, and then they give you all the synonyms for each, uh, natural compound, and then I search under, uh, the different ones because, for example, for holy basil, you can find a lot of research, but the, the, um... It's not, it's not the w- This is the most commonly used name in English, but you have to look under the different Hindi names for it to find all the research because a lot of research, uh, clinically on it was done in India or done in Thailand, and it's peer reviewed, but they'd only use holy basil as a keyword. So, you know, you... The, the Natural Medical Database is a good tool for finding out the synonyms if you're looking at a nutrient, but the... Nobody beats PubMed, in my opinion.

Tim Ferriss 52:32 Yeah. It's... This is really, um, excellent advice, and I just want to kind of reiterate for folks that you, you have to search for the synonyms. And not only that, I mean, so for instance, you can take like alpha-lipoic acid and then thiaoctic acid or whatever.

Speaker 52:48 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 52:48 But, but not only that, but like you said, if you have studies being done in, say, India, uh, with Ayurvedic medicine, like what are-

Speaker 52:55 Mm

Tim Ferriss 52:55 ... the herbs that contain a lot of fill in the blank, right?

Speaker 52:59 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 52:59 So you can find these natural sources which then are also sometimes studied even if the isolated nutrients aren't studied. And it sounds like a lot of work, but it's not, uh, it's not that time-consuming once you just have, you know, ch- step one for the checklist. There's a great book called The Checklist Manifesto that I think-

Speaker 53:14 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Tim Ferriss 53:15 Yeah.

Speaker 53:15 That's one of my favorite books.

Tim Ferriss 53:17 Oh, it's so good, by Atul Gawande-

Speaker 53:18 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 53:18 ... uh, who's an MD. And so it's like, what is your checklist for doing research? It's like, okay, number one, go to Natural Database, find some synonyms, right?

Speaker 53:25 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 53:25 Then go to, uh, PubMed and do this following search. And then if you've read, say, the, uh, Bad Medicine, it's like, okay, what filters do I run this through? What are the 5 to 10 questions that I ask myself to make sure I don't fool myself, right?

Speaker 53:38 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 53:38 You know, is this introve- how is it delivered, right? You can't just take oral dosages a- and, uh, or intravenous dosages and assume that you're gonna get the same effect from oral consumption, right?

Speaker 53:49 Exactly.

Tim Ferriss 53:49 Um, question for you on, um, hormone replacement therapy.

Speaker 53:54 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 53:54 So a lot of, a lot of people are fascinated by hormone replacement therapy.

Speaker 53:58 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 53:58 Um, uh, how have your thoughts on hormone replacement therapy, uh, changed or evolved? Uh, and, and we could make it specific to guys, but we don't have to. It's, uh...

Speaker 54:08 Well, I think that there's a stronger place for it than ever before because, you know, it, it... People ask you, "Well, it's not natural," blah, blah, blah. Okay. All right. Let's go back a second here. One thing that distinguishes humans from animals is goal setting. ... and progress, okay? So I don't think eagles gather up together in January and say, "Okay, this year let's eat 78% more rats."

Tim Ferriss 54:37 [laughs]

Speaker 54:38 And I want to expand, right?

Tim Ferriss 54:41 Yeah.

Speaker 54:41 So they... I mean, animals that do... are animals, they do what they do. But we, whoever you want to blame for them, we're blessed with a brain that can learn and evolve. And then the, the reality is, is, and, and this is the World Health, uh, Organization statistic. Test- average testosterone level has decreased 1% per year since 1950. So what was considered good testosterone levels, and then the norms tend to change per country. So for example, uh, DHEA sulfate in the UK, if you have between s- 1.6 to 1.8, it's good. If you have 1.9, you're considered to have high elevated androgens. But in Canada, the norms are 3 to 10. So if you're a British male at 1.9, you don't exist in the medical norms in Canada, okay? So you don't qualify as a male. Uh, you may be a male in the UK, but you're not a male in Canada.

Tim Ferriss 55:32 [laughs]

Speaker 55:33 So, so the, the, the reality is that, okay, we, we've softened up on the norms, but we should look at optimal versus, uh, normal, right? So with hormone therapy, one thing we also know is we have 100 times more stress than our grandparents. Our grandparents didn't have iPhones. They didn't have to answer 70 emails an hour, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, uh, and there's also the radiation, which is now more and more well documented, and all these things, uh, suppress testosterone. So HRT I think is viable, but you have... It's like your carb order. It's, you need to deserve it. So for example, I see a lot of kids who go on growth hormone, and they're, they're, they're still making plenty, and by doing growth hormone too early, they're actually shutting down their production. Same thing with testosterone. But the, the attitude varies a lot from country to country. For example, there used to be a drug, uh, in France called Parabol, which is Trenbolone. I forget the, uh, e- exact ester. But if, if you look in the companion in the '80s, they, they would encourage doctors to give it to kids who were bullied at school, so they could race. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 56:45 [laughs] Trenbolone. Oh my God.

Speaker 56:48 So basically they said... The, the, the attitude was different. Like, okay, the kid has low muscle mass, low self-esteem, put him on Trenbolone.

Tim Ferriss 56:54 [laughs] Oh my God.

Speaker 56:56 So, but you know, a, an American doctor that would do that would get, you know, castrated and sent to jail-

Tim Ferriss 57:01 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Speaker 57:01 ... for 40 years, right?

Tim Ferriss 57:02 Yeah. Ju- just to put this in perspective for people, so Trenbolone, correct me if I'm wrong, um, pretty... It's hard for a lot of people to come by who are, say, like p- world-class powerlifters. So they'll take c- they, they'll take capsules that are in- intended to be injected into cattle.

Speaker 57:14 [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 57:15 And basically, you know, dissolve them into a liquid so they can inject them. And this was, so this was prescribed to children who were getting bullied.

Speaker 57:22 Yeah. So you know, you know, Trenbolone in the bodybuilding world or powerlifting world is one of the most potent drugs, right? But the attitude was very different. There's a friend of mine who's a pharmacist who has actually studied that, that, uh, concept, and he said, like, attitude towards drugs is very different. For example, in a lot of South American countries, they think that putting stanozolol in multivitamins for kids is good.

Tim Ferriss 57:47 [laughs]

Speaker 57:49 So they can, so they can gain weight. But the thing with, uh, HRT, what, what I see is that a lot of people jump on the bandwagon because they can make money and, and charge, you know, a horrendous price for testosterone. And then, which is, makes, costs $2 a cc to make, and they charge you $150 a cc. But the, the, um, uh, the therapies... The, I would say in the US, there's probably only three guys that know how to do it properly. And so if I have an executive that says to me, "You know, my t- my testosterone's the same as a Catholic, uh, church mouse, what could I do?" Well, I send them to these three docs, and they do a good job, but they, the, uh, it takes monitoring. You have to monitor your estrogens, you have to monitor your cardiovascular risk factors, and so on. Uh, but if it's done properly, it's very good. I think the, the more exciting realm now is actually the use of peptides. Um, but the peptides, it, it's the, the frontier right now in everybody's... But I've met a guy in Australia recently who probably has done the most clinical research on it, and when he explained to me how to use them, his view on how to use them and tandem was diametrically opposite to, uh, what the cowboys on the internet recommend.

Tim Ferriss 59:15 [laughs]

Speaker 59:15 But, but when I was in the waiting room, it was the who's who of the strength world [laughs] was waiting for an appointment. So o- obviously, his clinical e- experience was very good. And then, um, but he was really, really, uh, far ahead. But for example, for repairing joints, you know, there's two peptides are gaining a lot of popularity, and they work very well. Uh, now they're just for research purposes, but I think that HRT, if it's done properly, it's quite validated. As long as you're not in a, a drug-tested sport. If you're a 40-year-old stockbroker and you have zero sex drive, and y- you've shaped like a Perrier water bottle, then yeah, go get some testosterone therapy. Because, but you know, the other thing is that, that I think is underestimated, is the balance between DHEA sulfate and the testosterone, and that has to be kept in balance because DHEA sulfate is the mother of all androgens. And if you don't take care of that at the same time, you can get into a lot of trouble. So, uh-

Tim Ferriss 1:00:20 What... Could you elaborate on, uh-

Speaker 1:00:23 Because-

Tim Ferriss 1:00:23 ... what, what type of trouble?

Speaker 1:00:24 Well, for example, you know, every molecule can be linked to an emotion, and you really think about... I mean, Candace Pert wrote a whole book on that. But DHEA sulfate is the molecule- I think for me of motivation or one of them. Okay? And if you take so much tests that you don't have enough DHEA sulfate, you could... You're just a big lug with, you know, no drive. So, uh, you have to keep the DHEA sulfate, and also you have to balance that with how much q- uh, salivary cortisol you make. It's not, uh... You... When you look at hormone therapy, you can't look at the world through a straw. In other words, taking a shitload of testosterone is not gonna solve your problems. The best guy, uh, the, uh, the best educator on HRT is Thierry Hertoghe from Belgium. He lectures all over the world.

Tim Ferriss 1:01:21 How do you spell his name, Charles?

Speaker 1:01:23 Thierry is T-H-I-E-R-R-Y. And his family name is H-E-R-T-O-G-U-E or T-H-O-G-U-E. Thierry Hertoghe. And he's, um-

Tim Ferriss 1:01:36 [laughs] I'm glad I asked. I never would've gotten it close.

Speaker 1:01:39 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:01:39 Okay. [laughs]

Speaker 1:01:40 Yeah. But he, he's easily found on, uh... He teaches all over the world. He's probably teaching three weekends out of four, always to endocrinologists or the anti-aging circle. But, you know, he'll talk about, for example, balancing things like, uh, oxytocin, uh, with your testosterone. He... So he has a, a very good approach. And, uh, he's big on monitoring where you store your body fat, uh, a- as it relates to hormones. He, he has... I mean, his books are very expensive, but they're really worth the investment. But he, he'll explain how hormone deficiencies manifest in physically outward symptoms. Like, what happens when you're GH. This is what happens to you if you, if you have too much GH, this is what happens to you. If you don't have enough T3, you... Too much T3. So he's... he is... He has made a lot of links between physical medicine and endocrinology, and that's why he's very well-respected. Uh, and I find the best endocrinologists have studied under him. Because he has a very, um, eagle's view of the hormonal system. It's not like looking at the world through a straw. "Oh, yeah, you're low in testosterone. Here, take a gram of testosterone a week." Like, you take a gram of testosterone a week and you don't control your estrogens, you'll have bigger tits than Pamela Anderson within a month, you know?

Tim Ferriss 1:03:06 [laughs] Well, not m-

Speaker 1:03:07 I mean-

Tim Ferriss 1:03:07 Well, not to mention, I mean, your lipid profile's gonna-

Speaker 1:03:10 Ah.

Tim Ferriss 1:03:10 I mean, yeah. Your, your, your lipids are not gonna look so, so impressive.

Speaker 1:03:15 And you'll have nipples the size of Frisbees. So, you know. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:03:18 [laughs]

Speaker 1:03:18 And maybe that's one of your goals in life. I don't know. But the, the point is, is that HRT is a viable tool. It has to be done properly. And it's... If a guy just comes in and tests your tests, and he wants to give you a prescription, run out of there because he needs to look at a lot of things.

Tim Ferriss 1:03:34 Yeah. Yeah. No, completely. Uh, let me ask you just a, a random question. I mean, I talked about this very openly in The 4-Hour Body.

Speaker 1:03:40 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 1:03:40 And this is something that bugs me. We can bitch and moan-

Speaker 1:03:42 Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 1:03:43 ... about the internet another time. But the fact that I wrote an entire s- I wrote an entire, I think, four or five pages on, like, Anabolics 101.

Speaker 1:03:50 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:03:51 And on Wikipedia, it says, "Tim Ferriss ad- admits to have used [laughs] anabolic agents." And I'm like, admits is such a weaselly word. I wrote a fu-

Speaker 1:03:59 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 1:03:59 ... fucking chapter about it. So I've used different anabolics, uh, uh, with medical supervision after surgeries. And, um, one of the, uh... I, I don't know if it's an urban myth or just one of the common beliefs among athletes is that Deca-Durabolin helps with joint repair. But I've never been able to come up with a plausible explanation for why nandrolone versus other things would have that effect. And I'm just curious if you think that has any validity, and if so, what the plausible explanation might be.

Speaker 1:04:32 Actually, there is a paper on that. Uh, it's about five years old. Um, I, I dug it on actually PubMed. The, the... [sighs] After we do the call, I'll, I'll... I'm pretty sure I got it in my, um... An email because a, a medical doctor asked me a question. And out of interest, I did find a paper. This... According to your urban legend, you know, you have more fluid in the joint, which decohabits the joint, which allows the cartilage to regenerate, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But, um, this particular study was on the regeneration of connective tissue, and they did, they did find a positive influence from... I think in this study was nandrolone phenylpropionate, if my memory serves me right. But the, um... I mean, okay, again, you have clinical versus anecdotal evidence. But many old-time powerlifters will tell you that when they self-administered nandrolone drugs, they did, uh, see a decrease in joint pain. But I do know there's at least one Swedish study on the benefits of nandrolone in, uh, joint health.

Tim Ferriss 1:05:49 Cool. I'll check it out. Uh, yeah. Nandrolone is just also... I, I mean, I've always, uh... I guess it's probably a legal issue. Um, and, and just for those people listening who are like, "Let me run out and buy some nandrolone."

Speaker 1:06:01 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 1:06:01 Uh, uh, the, the legal side effects of trying to do this stuff on the black market can be, uh, just as harsh as the physical side effects of using them improperly.

Speaker 1:06:11 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 1:06:11 So caveat emptor.

Speaker 1:06:12 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 1:06:12 Don't, uh, you know, go find your local meathead and just inject whatever, um, you know-

Speaker 1:06:17 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 1:06:17 ... cooking, cooking oil he happens to sell you.

Speaker 1:06:19 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:06:19 But, um, you know, nandrolone I find really interesting just from the standpoint of, um, aromatization and dealing with some of these other issues-

Speaker 1:06:26 Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 1:06:26 ... um, that, that you mentioned. But anyway, that's a whole separate conversation. With... But on the, uh, kind of non- um, non-drug standpoint or, or from that perspective, what are- Approaches that you take. What, what are things that you eliminate from your household or try to avoid, f- whether that's due to environmental estrogens or, you know, phytoestrogens or whatever the hell, synthetic estrogens or otherwise? Um, what, what are things that you keep, try to keep out of your house or away from your, your body?

Speaker 1:06:57 Well, the thing is, is that there's quite a few estrogens that come in from the cosmetic shampoos and so on. So a, a very simple tool is to go to ewg.org, and they rank, uh, in quality all the common household products, shampoos, moisturizers or whatever. So for example, there's one that comes to mind that is given for free in the Canada's biggest health chain. It has, uh, five types of parabens, and parabens is linked to all forms of cancer, but they got five isomers of paraben in it. Uh, I'm not gonna name the company, but it's a very well-known company. So people go get buffed at, at the gym in Toronto. They take a shower, and winter is dry, so you got dry skin. They put that thing in, and they're basically lathering on [laughs] crushed forms of, uh, oral contraceptives. So-

Tim Ferriss 1:07:48 [laughs]

Speaker 1:07:49 Yeah. [laughs] So, so, you know, so I only buy organic, uh, certified organic products for body care. Um, my... Actually, the, my maid at the house is very conscious of that stuff, so she only uses the best products. And everything is verified with ewg.org, and it's free. So, uh, and it's high quality. Uh, I've donated it to them in the past. I think it's a great organization. Uh, the thing is, is that I've learned this from you actually, is the concept of batching. So I batch my email work, I batch my cellphone work. So I try to minimize all radiation forms as much as possible. Um, over the last three years, I always take the month of July off, and that's when I have time to read stuff for my upcoming classes. And three years ago, I started to look at the research, peer-reviewed research on, um, electromagnetic pollution, and it was quite a bit staggering. A lot of the leading work has been done in France, but i- it's not encouraging by any means. Um, things like, uh, dopamine... You know what I call phantom message watching. So a lot of people will look at their iPhone, for example, to see if they've got a message. They, they don't batch it, so they, they're obsessed with, or they want to see who, who posted what on Facebook. They found in Korea that it actually messes up with dopamine receptor site location, and it puts people into a s- a state of hyper, um, vigilantism, you know? So they, they always... They're, they're basically like a Navy SEAL in the middle of Iraq, uh, hanging by their toes on a clothesline with an American flag on their back, you know? So they're always ready for battle, and there's no need for it. So, uh, I found one of the best ways to actually manage stress, which I learned from The 4-Hour Workweek, was to batch my emails, batch my cellphone, uh, work, and I found it's a great stress reducer. And, and of course, biggest added benefit is you're far more productive, you know? Um, the, the, the food, the quality of the food, you could say I'm quite, uh, um, enthusiastic about. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:10:16 [laughs]

Speaker 1:10:16 Uh, so what I... You know, what you put in your mouth is a stressor, and what you say that comes out of your mouth is also a stressor. So at least you have control on both. So when I'm here, uh, in the US, it's very easy for me to have the best food. But when I travel overseas, actually where I teach is dictated by the, the quality of the food. So for example, I partnered up with Nick Mitchell for his Ultimate Performance gym in Marbella. Because, A, I don't mind sunshine. I'd rather teach in sunshine. So I do most of my European seminars now in Spain. But in Spain, I found this guy, uh, Michael Antonio, who finds me boar and deer and, you know, and the quality of the fish is very good. So if I teach six weeks in Spain, I got the best food. Uh, if I teach in Northern Europe, I'll either go to Denmark or Sweden for the same thing because it's fairly good quality. But in England, it is a challenge, but still feasible. I've edu- I've educated enough students that they've dug out the best places, you know. Even when I was in Manchester, uh, two weeks ago, I could find some good food. So it's, um... The Europeans are catching on quicker to this, and the Southwest of the US. So for example, if you go to Phoenix, it's very easy to eat organic. You go to Rhode Island or Boston, y- you're shit out of luck, you know? So...

Tim Ferriss 1:11:40 [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:11:42 Uh, when you think of the, the typical gym in the US, let's just say, what m- what drives you nuts about warmups? What are people doing incorrectly for warmups for weight training?

Speaker 1:11:58 Uh, the foam roller. That is such a waste of time, and plus it leads to more scar tissue. So I only like the foam roller to distract vertebraes. That's about it. Um-

Tim Ferriss 1:12:11 [laughs]

Speaker 1:12:13 The, the warmups... Okay, there's very good, uh, evidence by Magda Adas that warming up on a treadmill or using a treadmill precipitates insulin resistance by 46%. So all electronic cardio equipment, in my opinion, should be banned. So let's say tomorrow you name me emperor of all galaxies, and I got all power. I would take all that cardio stuff and throw it out of gyms. Uh, I would just replace it with strongman equipment. Uh- The, also, the, the concept of train your core using unstable surfaces, if you look at the actual research, you will find that it, it helps for about six weeks, but after that, there's no added benefit. And the best way to strengthen your core is are compound exercises like squats, deadlift, chin-ups, dips, and so on. So, uh, what drives me crazy is the gyms where I go and everything is done ... Like, you'll see a, a woman do a, on a BOSU ball, on one leg, doing a contralateral dumbbell curl, and switch legs and arms. You know, what does that do? Fuck all.

Tim Ferriss 1:13:25 [laughs]

Speaker 1:13:27 Uh, you know, she'd be better l- learning how to squat properly and do a set of 20 to exhaustion. That'll, uh, bring, you know, more heat shock proteins, which are, have been associated with, uh, fat loss and muscle building. So the, the ... There's actually, uh, a trend now. There's two gym chains around the world that have, uh, hired me to develop educational seminars to get rid of all those balance exercises.

Tim Ferriss 1:13:56 [laughs]

Speaker 1:13:57 Uh, one of them that leads the education is a student of mine, and he just won a bodybuilding contest. And his physique's changed completely. And, and even now the owners of the chain are going, "Wow, you know, uh, what changes did you make?" And he said, "Well, I started to do real strength training." And, um, so ... And then one of the biggest chains in England has also asked me to revamp, uh, that system. Because the, the rule is, it's like, the basics are the basics, and you can't beat the basics. And, uh, as my first mentor told me, there's three rules of success in strength training. One is hard work. Two is hard work. Three is hard work. So [laughs] you can't replace quality hard work, you know?

Tim Ferriss 1:14:40 And if ... So if you were designing the, the perfect warmup routine ... So you're able to, you know, throw the BOSU balls in the dumpster.

Speaker 1:14:48 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 1:14:48 You're able to get rid of all of the cardio equipment.

Speaker 1:14:50 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 1:14:51 Um, and let's just for the sake of simplicity say someone ... And you can tear this apart.

Speaker 1:14:55 No.

Tim Ferriss 1:14:55 But just because people have heard of it, I'll say somebody's getting ready for, like, a five by five squat workout-

Speaker 1:15:01 Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 1:15:01 ... let's just say. What ... W- uh, would you have them do any particular type of warmup? The perfect warmup for that?

Speaker 1:15:07 Yes. Of course, because here's the ... There's two rules about warming up. The brain should know what the range of motion is. And two, that the weight's gonna get heavier.

Tim Ferriss 1:15:18 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:15:18 So, so for example, you want to do five by five at 100 kilos, at 220 pounds.

Tim Ferriss 1:15:24 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:15:24 So you go to the gym. If it's squats, well, there's a lot of research that shows that mobility in the ankle is what, uh, decreases, uh, the probability of any lower extremity injuries, whether it's ACL tear or hamstring pull or groin tear, whatever. So the first thing I would do is I would go on a calf machine and stretch the calves. Uh, and then go down s- all the, uh, statically the stretch for eight seconds. Then I finish off with a c- a voluntary contraction, because it resets, uh, the pattern, uh, for strength. Research is clear. If you do static stretching and you don't finish with a contraction, you're more likely to get injured.

Tim Ferriss 1:16:08 So you do the eight-second stretch, let's just say, at the bottom of the-

Speaker 1:16:12 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 1:16:12 ... calf machine. And then you would go up to sort of a peak hold? Or is it just one? Or-

Speaker 1:16:16 Yeah. You, you, you con- concentrate on, on lifting the weight, actively contracting, uh, the calf. So the weight should be enough to stretch you. If it's heavy enough to stretch you, you won't be able to lift it. But you should do a voluntary contraction for two seconds at the end of the stretch to reactivate, uh, the, the power in your muscle. So I would make my ankles flexible. Then I would take the bar. And depending on which muscles are tight, let's say if it's quad or hamstrings or whatever, I would do the same principle. Get into a, uh, position where I'd basically do PNF stretching, right? And then, uh, do those exercise. Then I mobile for the range of motion. Then I ... If the goal is 100 kilos for five sets of five, then the first warmup set would be the bar, just the bar. Four reps. Then I would go to 60 kilos, which is 60%. So my body knows what the range of motion is. Then I put 60 kilos, which is 60%. I would only do about three reps. Then I would go to 75 kilos. I would do two reps. I'd go to, uh, 85 kilos, do one rep. 90 kilos, do one rep. 95 kilos, do one rep. So all those weights just tell me the weight is gonna be coming soon. And then squat 100 kilos for five sets of five. So I, I've accomplished my goal. I know what the range of motion is, which allows me to have great mechanics. And then I, um, I warmed up psychologically and physiologically speaking to handle the weight. Some people do what they call over warmup. So if they want to train at 100, they'll do a set, let's say 95. Then they go to 110 to a- activate the, the nervous system. But they only do one rep. So they don't really go to failure. They just tell the body, "Hey, 100 kilos is gonna feel lighter." They w- uh, Paul Carter is a big ad- advocate of this. But the first time I read it was from a, a weightl- a powerlifting coach in 1973. I mean, that's when the article was published, but it was from Finland. And they have a name in it in Finnish which has about 96 letters, but it means pro-

Tim Ferriss 1:18:23 [laughs]

Speaker 1:18:24 It mean, it means proprio- proprioception set. Um, so-

Tim Ferriss 1:18:29 Prop- uh, yeah, proprioception set. Okay.

Speaker 1:18:31 So they make it short as P set.

Tim Ferriss 1:18:33 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:18:33 But that's a way to warm up, uh, where you go up o- over, uh, the set. I mean, and, and that's the one thing. Paul Carter figured it out by himself. But- ... and there's such a thing as universal intelligence. There's nothing new, really. So, uh, you know, I could find in '73, and, and that's all the research I did on it, but maybe somebody figured it out in 1908 by himself. I mean, in my house here, I got everything that's ever been written on weight training since 1896 in multiple languages. Like, for example, Fred- Frederic Delavier's anatomy books, I've got them in 15 different languages, okay?

Tim Ferriss 1:19:11 [laughs]

Speaker 1:19:12 So, so, it, it just, I find it's a good way ... You know, I love learning languages, but you, you should r- learn things you're passionate about. So, you know, I think that you can learn a lot of grammar o- o- on explaining how s- somebody how to squat, right? It's like you learn directions and whatever. So I, um, I've used that as a tool for learning languages. But the point is, is that when people say, "Oh, I've invented this," I say, "Bullshit." Like, it was invented in Egypt, 1923 or 1908 by Bob Peoples, or whatever it is. It, the, the ... What's new is combinations, um, you know, or applications. But, m- like, fa- uh, fat grip dumbbells is not new. I mean, that's 1896. So, um, what I did with the fat grip dumbbells, I, I made them revolve so they're easier on your joints. So I designed them for, uh, Watson Gym Equipment. They're calibrated. They're nuclear attack resistant, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But all I did is made some, uh, ameliorations, yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:20:17 Right, a new application of an old idea.

Speaker 1:20:19 Yes, yes. But there's nothing new in weight training.

Tim Ferriss 1:20:23 S- s- so, so speaking of, uh, the, the squat routine that you sort of led up to, what are the most common mistakes that people make after they finish their work sets or, or after a workout for that matter?

Speaker 1:20:38 I am a really, really big believer, Tim, in immediate recovery. That's from personal experience, okay? I mean, there's some research from Australia and South Africa to back me up. But over the years is cortisol used to be considered the enemy. Now, in the last four years, we figured out that the more cortisol you make during training, the greater training response. So people used to take cortisol blockers before training. That's stupid. It leads to no gains. But I think that the effect of the cortisol is transitory. So you induce the message, then you got to get rid of the message, okay? So, uh, you know, um, as, uh, what's that guy? Uh, Charlie Sheen. "I don't pay women to have sex. I pay them to leave after sex." [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:21:30 [laughs]

Speaker 1:21:30 So well, cortisol's like that. It's like the prostitute that-

Tim Ferriss 1:21:33 [laughs]

Speaker 1:21:34 ... you got to get rid of the, of, uh, the prostitute, so you got to get rid of the cortisol. So I know my analogy's a bit out there, but, uh, people like graphic stuff. So they remember far better. So you want to get rid of cortisol. So m- in my opinion, is you got to suppress cortisol immediately after exercise. Um, of course, you know, people say, "Well, why don't you put that down that?" Hey, I don't think medicine's 17 disper- sports. That's my data. So I've tried not to do it, and I, you know, I, I've gone away from it. I've tried different ways. But I really believe you got to bring that cortisol down. The, the best way to do that is to make yourself more insulin sensitive. So you do ... You go through steps to make yourself insulin sensitive. But somebody who trains really hard, let's say he weighs 200 pounds. I really like to have, uh, 200 grams of a carbohydrate blend right after exercise with about 50 grams of a high-quality protein. A lot of people are intolerant to whey and they don't even know. I really like, uh, essential amino acid blends. So if you're a 200-pound man, I, I developed a product, uh, for ATP Lab out of Canada. It's called PentaCarb. It has cyclodextrins, some dextrose, and three forms of, uh, non-GMO, uh, maltodextrin. I give that to people with, uh, about 50 grams of essential aminos in most cases. If they can handle the whey protein, I give them whey protein because it's way cheaper. Or sometimes I give them goat whey because they're not intolerant to goat whey, but they may be intolerant to cow's whey.

Tim Ferriss 1:23:09 Where does someone find goat whey, just out of curiosity?

Speaker 1:23:12 I mean, I make no money telling you this, but my favorite brand is Tierra's Whey. T-I-E-R-R-A-

Tim Ferriss 1:23:20 Okay

Speaker 1:23:20 ... apostrophe S whey. You can find it at Whole Foods, but on Amazon, they'll split your ass to ship to you within 24 hours. Uh, that's where, that's where, [laughs] that's where I get mine. Um, and it's ... I find it personally to be more anabolic than, uh, cow's whey. That's my personal preference. But I use, uh, uh, for my amino acids, one of my students out of Germany makes a amino acid/electrolyte complex, and I use that. I mean, I, it's something I never run out. It's ... I, I come back from a trip, I put two canisters back into my luggage. I don't want to forget it.

Tim Ferriss 1:24:01 [laughs]

Speaker 1:24:02 So.

Tim Ferriss 1:24:03 And with, with, say, the PentaCarb-

Speaker 1:24:05 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 1:24:05 ... just so, just so people don't, uh, take, uh, take the, the wrong or interpret it the wrong way.

Speaker 1:24:14 Mm.

Tim Ferriss 1:24:14 At, at what point have you earned that, say, you know, 200 grams of carbohydrates, 50 grams of protein, for instance, if you're a, a larger athlete? Because I know that you ... I, I'm sure you've seen it. I've seen it. I go to the gym, and I see somebody do 10 minutes on an elliptical while watching, you know, part of a Game of Thrones. They get off, then they, they drink 500 calories of carbohydrates.

Speaker 1:24:37 Yeah. No.

Tim Ferriss 1:24:37 Um, at when, when does it make sense to consume this post, uh, this post-workout, and when does it not make sense?

Speaker 1:24:46 You have, you have to deserve your carbs, and I'll repeat myself on that. And to deserve that many carbs post-exercise, you need to be sub-10% body fat. And the quickest way- To know if you have sub 10 body fat as a male is can I see the linear alba on your abs? In other words, can I see all ab rows? One ab row doesn't count. [laughs] You gotta see them all, okay?

Tim Ferriss 1:25:06 [laughs]

Speaker 1:25:07 So in other words, you have to have penis skin on your abs.

Tim Ferriss 1:25:09 [laughs]

Speaker 1:25:12 Uh, you know, if you could pinch an inch, you, you certainly don't deserve carbohydrates. So, you know, if you, if you can see visibly your abs, then that's when you deserve it. Until then, I s- I sh- I think you should stick to, uh, either whey or essential amino acids, and more branched chains, and some glutamine, because you don't deserve it. But one of the things that increases anabolism is to be insulin sensitive. What makes you insulin sensitive? Losing body fat. I mean, Nick Mitchell sent me some pictures yesterday of this, uh, journalist that he's training. A- and this guy looked like a human foie gras, and in nine weeks, the guy's got abs, right? I mean, [laughs] he was considering calling his book How to Polish a Turd, but, uh, [laughs] no kidding. But the thing is is that he took this guy who looks horrendous, and it's all documented, so there's no, like, Photoshop and bullshit, and he took him from a, I would estimate a 23% body fat to a 9% body fat in nine weeks. What did he do? He restricted his carbs. But now that he's lean, he's jacked up his carbs. So you gotta deserve your carbs. But until, you know, if you don't deserve it, don't have them. You'll just get fatter.

Tim Ferriss 1:26:26 What, um, what are some commonly neglected ways to decrease body fat, aside from restricting carbohydrates?

Speaker 1:26:36 I think that the biggest mistake is to do steady state cardio. You wanna get fatter, go right ahead. Uh, the second most biggest mistake is to use the low-fat approach. So some people will restrict their carbohydrates, but they restrict their fats too. So that's a big mistake. If you're gonna go high protein, low carb, you need to have high fat. Uh, so you cook your meats in olive oil and butter, uh, you put butter on your vegetables, and so on, and you take coconut oil. And, uh, that would help you, uh, get more insulin sensitive. The thing, too, is decreasing cortisol. Cortisol is a great enemy when we're talking about ins- developing insulin resistance. How do you de- how do you decrease cortisol? Well, you manage your stress. How do you manage your stress? Well, you, you get effective work habits. You eliminate distractions. When you're at work, turn off your email. Only answer your email right before lunch and right before you leave work. I mean, there's a lot of ways to manage your stress. One of the books I really like and I recommend to all my students is 59 Seconds from Richard Wiseman.

Tim Ferriss 1:27:47 Oh, I've never heard of it. Yeah.

Speaker 1:27:48 Okay. Uh, uh, Tim, you gotta read that book. It, it, it ... I would say it's one of those best book you could ever read, because what he does, he, he takes a critical look at the self-help industry. And one of the tests he makes you do, he describes 10 self-help techniques that are repeated over and over, uh, in the self-help literature, and he asks you to identify which ones work. I won't tell you the answer, but I would ... I, I had 100%, uh, on the test, because I was ... I identified the ones that don't work and the ones that do work. So for example, one of the common ones that you read in every book, imagine the body that you want, blah, blah, blah, you know?

Tim Ferriss 1:28:29 [laughs]

Speaker 1:28:29 That's ... Well, all it does is it encourages you to be delusional. What works is a plan with an action step. You wanna get lean, you need a plan. If you've, uh, fail to plan, you plan to fail. So, and in the book, what he does, he, he, he answered a challenge from his friend Sophie. Sophie said, "I'm busy. I wanna help myself, but I want stuff that is science-based, and I want to, uh, not take a lot of time." So he says, "So I could give you a, an answer under one minute?" She goes, "That's right." So that's why the book is called 59 Seconds. And in the book, he, it'll go over anything from building relationships to, uh, goal setting, and he destroys a lot of myths about goal setting and these bullshit studies that were never actually done. And, but he does like everything, uh, so you would love it. And it'll talk about anything from increasing your height, your odds to getting picked up when you hitchhike, to whatever. It, it's a very ... He's a very funny guy, and he's written a lot of very good books. Uh, he's the one who wrote Quirkology.

Tim Ferriss 1:29:37 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:29:37 Uh, he's a magician besides being a PhD in, in psychology, and you could see his magic tricks on YouTube. He's a pretty interesting guy. He's, um ... So that, that's probably the best self-help book. But I tell people, if you really wanna change, read that book. Um-

Tim Ferriss 1:29:52 59 Seconds.

Speaker 1:29:54 Yeah, by Richard Wiseman.

Tim Ferriss 1:29:55 Very cool. What, um, what other books do you gift the most to other people or recommend the most?

Speaker 1:30:02 I give that one often. The other one I really like to give is The One Thing.

Tim Ferriss 1:30:05 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:30:06 I'm actually, uh, lecturing with one of the authors in Texas, uh, in November. So if you want to join up, it ... Just go look at, um, the, uh, powerfulexecutive.com. Uh, uh, there'll be a page with how to register. But, uh, Jay Papasan wrote The One Thing with, uh, Gary Keller. Um, uh, it's very similar actually to The 4-Hour Workweek in a lot of points. I mean, success rules are success rules, right? Uh, but when I read your book, uh, and I tell my students to buy your book, what I learned from you was I work way too hard and I had no fun in my life.

Tim Ferriss 1:30:44 [laughs]

Speaker 1:30:46 So, [laughs] so after reading your book, a- and Jay Papasan and Gary Keller recommend the first thing you should plan in a year is your vacation. So after reading both of these books, I mean, when I'm at home, I work two and a half to four hours max. I take the month of July off. I take the first two weeks of August off. I don't work the month of December until about, uh, end of January. And a week a month I take off, okay? I've never done that in my life unless, w- w- until the last four years. But what I learned with The One Thing is that you have to pick one activity per day that will change the rest of your life. So for example, doing a podcast with you is my one thing today because you're a very popular author. I mean, Schwarzenegger, who's another one of my heroes, was, uh, uh, on your podcast recently.

Tim Ferriss 1:31:38 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:31:39 Uh, actually, Arnold Schwarzenegger is probably the most inspiring man you could listen to. I was very fortunate to be invited by Tony Doherty to teach at the Arnold Classic last March in Australia, and on Sunday morning there was a small group of us, uh, were invited to listen to Arnold Schwarzenegger. And coming out of that lecture, I don't think in my life I've ev- ever been that fired up. What I like about Schwarzenegger, he's very honest, and the thing he talked the most about was actually his mistakes. And, uh, you know, it takes balls to do that and, um, how you learn from them and so on. So the, the, uh, but The One Thing is one of my favorite books I tell my students because it gets you organized and makes you focused. Um, it- it, uh, success rules are universal, you know?

Tim Ferriss 1:32:34 No, it's just like strength training, like you said.

Speaker 1:32:35 Mm.

Tim Ferriss 1:32:35 I think there, there are old ideas and new applications. And, uh, I remember I was on the BBC once, and it was, it was kind of funny because I knew that they were gonna set me up. Uh, they were ... It was a, it was a segment on self-help, and I was like, "Okay, well, if it's, if, if they're calling it self-help, this is gonna be an attack piece," and I knew it was-

Speaker 1:32:52 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 1:32:52 ... I was, I knew it was coming. So I sat down, and they were like, "So Mr. Ferriss," you know, and they said this in the, in the most British way imaginable. I mean, it was very polite but very condescending. [laughs]

Speaker 1:33:01 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 1:33:02 And they said... Not all British people are, are like that, but it is a superpower in the UK. And, um, and they said, uh, "So how would you defend, you know, uh, people in the self-help genre who this, this, and this?" And I said, "I wouldn't. I think they're full of shit." [laughs] And I said, "I think that for the most part, you know, you should only take advice from people who have a track record-

Speaker 1:33:22 Mm

Tim Ferriss 1:33:22 ... of implementing that same advice." And, uh, you know, if y- I identify more with, uh, or if, if, if you ask me who my favorite self-help author is, I'd probably say Ben Franklin, right? [laughs] I mean-

Speaker 1:33:33 That's right

Tim Ferriss 1:33:34 ... I'm looking back. Or Seneca maybe, you know?

Speaker 1:33:36 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:33:37 Really rewind the clock. And I think that The One Thing, uh, is, is just the title itself after you've read the book-

Speaker 1:33:44 Mm

Tim Ferriss 1:33:45 ... I think is very helpful because whether you look at Seneca, you look at some of the top performing CEOs in Silicon Valley who actually have lives outside of the businesses they're building, they're constantly asking d- a, a question that is some variance of, like, what is the one thing on this list that really matters, right?

Speaker 1:34:03 Mm.

Tim Ferriss 1:34:03 What is the one thing on this list that will make all the other things easier, unimportant, or whatever, right? There's al- there's always some variation to that question.

Speaker 1:34:10 Correct.

Tim Ferriss 1:34:11 And it's, um, but I, I, I think it's, it's so valuable for people to hear you say what you did, which is you're planning vacation first, right?

Speaker 1:34:20 Mm.

Tim Ferriss 1:34:20 You're blocking out times for the fun things because if you don't do that, then work will simply swell to fill those times and fill those-

Speaker 1:34:30 Exactly

Tim Ferriss 1:34:30 ... those voids. What do you do with your, uh, when you take, say, the month off? What are the, what are the things that you now do?

Speaker 1:34:38 Well, I'll give you an example. My daughter loves martial arts, and last two summers we went to Sweden, Stockholm, and she trained with this, uh, sensei in Brazilian jujitsu. And so she trained three times a day. Twice l- uh, twice in jujitsu, once in lifting. And but in between, we would do, uh, things like visit Viking museums. We would do some type of touristic learning experience, right? And we'd go off, uh, visit the islands off Stockholm for one day, whatever that is. I think that, you know, when I'm raising her, I, I try to make her visit as many countries as possible every year so that she doesn't ... You know, 80% of 15-year-old Americans can't put the US on the world map. That's, that's a big issue. So, you know, by going here, there, and then every day ask her three questions. And, you know, I always ask her, and I've been doing that since she's a toddler, since she could speak, is one is what have you done today to help someone? And then she'll say whatever. And then the second question is always what has someone done nice for you today or to help you out? And then the third question is always what did you learn? And then, you know, so one time we went to visit a lady while we were in London, who's an expert on mammals. She wrote a book on mammals that my daughter read when she was five or six years old. And so I, I booked a brain picking fee with the lady. She, she was kind of puzzled why I wanted to do that. And I asked my daughter, said, "You could ask her whatever sh- uh, uh, you want about animals." And then she, uh, you know. And the lady was surprised how much my daughter knew about things and how smart the questions were. But, you know, a life not examined is not a wor- a life worth living. So I think it's really important that you pause at the end of the day to see what have you done. And I, you know, I religiously, uh, donate 10% of what I make to different causes. So for example, on the weekend I, I adopted another tiger. And, uh, this afternoon when we hang up, I'm making a donation to the Navy Seal Foundation. So it's, it really important that w- and one of the principles in life if you want to be, uh, successful is to give what you want So if you give away money, you'll receive money. Uh, if you-

Tim Ferriss 1:37:09 I like that.

Speaker 1:37:10 No

Tim Ferriss 1:37:10 I like that.

Speaker 1:37:10 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:37:11 Yeah.

Speaker 1:37:11 So, you know, if you're not willing to give it away, you won't attract it. I know that sounds a bit hokey, but it's very true. And my father taught me that a long time ago. He, he had the same practice. But I remember in university having zero money. I mean, I was so poor, the furniture was painted on the walls, you know? So [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:37:30 [laughs]

Speaker 1:37:31 I, uh, I donated 150 bucks. I had 50 bucks left in my account after that, to a, uh, homeless, uh, people shelter. And the next day I sold one of my university papers to two different federations, and each paid me... One paid me 600 bucks, and the other one paid me hun- 1,200 bucks for the same chapter. It was a chapter on training for vertical jump in volleyball. But, so the return on investment was immediate. But I'm a big believer, if you want more money, give more away. And, uh, you know, we... For example, why the Navy SEAL Foundation? Well, those guys take care that we can live the way we want to live, uh, but our government doesn't support them very well once they've used them, right? So I, I leave clear instructions that I want them to... The money to be used for rehab. A lot of guys get injuries, and no one takes care of them, right? But it doesn't matter if you give to Doctors Without Borders or, or whatever else. It, I mean, the thing is that if you leave this planet without making it better than when you were born, you didn't live a good life.

Tim Ferriss 1:38:38 Yeah, what's the point?

Speaker 1:38:39 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:38:39 Yeah, agreed. Uh, the, um... When you... What are questions that you ask yourself at the end of the day or the end of the week? Just like you had the questions that, uh, your daughter asks, uh, or that you ask your daughter rather. Are there, are there questions that you revisit on a regular basis?

Speaker 1:38:59 Uh, well, it's always, "How can I make this better?" Or, "How can I make the teaching more effective?" You know? I realized over the years that, that [laughs] you have to simplify more and more and more and more. So, uh, it, what ha- if there's one thing I've learned in this 40, 54 years on Earth, is that, uh, as Einstein said, there's genius in simplicity.

Tim Ferriss 1:39:29 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:39:30 So, yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:39:31 And one thing I've, I've always admired about, um, the way you teach also... Well, the two things really that I've observed. Uh, number one is you use metaphor and analogy in a very memorable way. And, uh, I mean, people, if I ask them what the Charlie Sheen point was, it's [laughs] they're gonna remember cortisol. And it's, it, but it's, it's funny, yes, and it's, uh, it's, it's very Charles, yes. But it's, it's also memorable. And I think that, uh, you know, simplifying and pegging these concepts to memorable imagery is something you're very gifted at. Um, and, um, you're also not, uh, you're not overly easy on your students, which I appreciate because, for instance, I'm training with this, uh, this, uh, this older Polish trainer in his 60s. And I've, I've, I've generally not worked with trainers on a regular basis. I've worked with coaches, but not... I, I suppose he could be considered a coach.

Speaker 1:40:26 Mm.

Tim Ferriss 1:40:26 And we're working on, uh... He, he has four world records in Olympic weightlifting. And, um, he, the first time I met him, he w- he's like, "Take off your shirt." And he walked over and just kind of pinched my left tit and said, "You're too fat." And that was the first thing he said to me [laughs] . And, uh, it was really refreshing-

Speaker 1:40:44 [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:40:44 ... because in the US, uh, we have a- adopted and developed this, you know, you get a gold ribbon for 18th place type-

Speaker 1:40:54 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 1:40:54 ... of culture, which is ultimately, I think, a disservice to-

Speaker 1:40:58 Exactly

Tim Ferriss 1:40:59 ... the students we're trying to help.

Speaker 1:41:00 Mm.

Tim Ferriss 1:41:01 Uh, so it was very refreshing. And, and he's, uh, I mean, he, he's not always belligerent just for the sake-

Speaker 1:41:06 No

Tim Ferriss 1:41:06 ... of being belligerent, but he's very brusque when it serves a purpose. And, um, uh, I'd, I'd love to just hear from you what you think... What are common mistakes that teachers make, aside from not simplifying something, uh, enough?

Speaker 1:41:22 I, I think the whole purpose behind what I do i- is based on a Japanese concept. You're only a good teacher if you leave a student that's better than yours. So I always try to make somebody better than me, you know? And I've had many students over the years, and I got a few out there now that I, I could say I'm starting to get happy with. But one thing when people are successful, and you're never happy, right? [laughs] So that's the, what the similarity is between the eagles, right? The, the eagle won't fix new goals every year, so, um. And I... And what makes me really happy, Tim, is when I see somebody who they, like they say, is first world champion in jujitsu or an Olympic medalist in kayak or, or... The other day I was in Stuttgart, and some Dutch student brought the equivalent, the Dutch edition of Men's Health or Men's Fitness. And they were talking about one of my Dutch students who trained an Olympic medalist in rings. And the guy gave me credit for that, uh, which was nice to see in a foreign language, you know, that, uh, my name gets out there. But, you know, my, my ultimate goal is to have one of my students beat my record of, uh, Olympians and world record holders. I mean, next year we have the Olympics in Rio, and I'm training girls in wrestling, and I've never had an Olympic medalist in wrestling. So that would be 18 sports. So that's... I found that you, even though I teach on strength training almost every day, I think you still have to keep your finger in the pie because, you know. So with the, uh, the three girls I coach, I'm really applying that neurotransmitter theory in all of them. But here again, what about mindset? We're in Cuba. Each one of my girls won the gold medal, okay? Uh, and Very definite, uh, wins. But the interesting thing, Tim, is that they, as soon as they get off the mat, within two minutes they were sitting beside me asking me to evaluate what I thought they did right or wrong. And what could I infer from their fighting into their strength training program design? So there was, for example, Elena Pietruskova. And I said, "You know what? Your wrists are way too weak." I said, "So we're gonna work on your wrists." And then Helene Maroulis, I said, "Your lower back is too weak." She goes, "How can you say that?" I said that, "When you move up and down, it's way too slow. Your lower back is weak." And then with this other girl, uh, we- uh, with Vicky, I said, "You need, uh, to do, uh, more slow strength. Your power is very good, but you need more s- slow strength." Which is ... W- I rarely have to say that, but in her case, yes. That's the one that's a mongoose on PCP. So-

Tim Ferriss 1:44:08 [laughs]

Speaker 1:44:10 [laughs] So, you know, so the, the, the point was that, uh, people who are winners always have a growth mindset. And I, you know, I remember in '88, my first day with national ski team. And I said to ... After one workout, I pointed out to one girl and I said, "You know, she'll be really good one day." And they all looked at me like, "What the hell do you know about alpine skiing?" They says, "She'll- she won't make it more than one year." She was 15 at the time. She was very young to make national team. And in 1994, she was ... In '93 she was world champion.

Tim Ferriss 1:44:49 What did you see in her? What did you notice?

Speaker 1:44:51 I ... Well, what I call the growth mindset.

Tim Ferriss 1:44:54 Ah, I see.

Speaker 1:44:54 In a sense that she would come after a workout, you know, "Can I do this? What can I do?" So I find that my best athletes ... And the thing that I see, and it's hard to measure or hard to explain, um, Reg Park talked about, he, he called it the intangible, is that it's the attitude while they're doing a set. One of my all-time favorites was a girl named Karen Percy. She won a bronze at the Olympics and two silver ... Uh, two silvers at the worlds. Or t- a silver and a bronze, something like that. But she could be friendly with her teammates in between sets. But when she picked up the bar, she was in some other galaxy. You could tell by her eyes that she was just doing the set. But there was nothing. You could have let off a hand grenade beside her, she wouldn't have even jumped. And I, I look at all the guys I've coached or ladies I've coached who, who've won Olympic medals. They all have that, you know, fifth dimension look. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:45:59 Teleportation ability.

Speaker 1:46:01 Yes. B- because they, they live in the moment. And they are absorbed in what they do. And there's nothing that will disturb them. Uh-

Tim Ferriss 1:46:11 I was just gonna say, you mentioned, um, these female wrestlers.

Speaker 1:46:14 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 1:46:14 And, uh, a couple of questions came from fans of mine about training, uh, female clients.

Speaker 1:46:22 Mm.

Tim Ferriss 1:46:22 And so I'd be curious to hear what you think the perhaps biggest mistakes that are made by trainers who train women. Or, uh, just the, the biggest mistakes that, say, women make if they're training, not necessarily to win an Olympic gold medal, but just for, for the usual set of goals, right? To, to lose fat, to look a bit better, to be a bit stronger. Um, and I, I'll follow up with some o- some other questions related to athletic g- goals. But what, what are some of the mistakes, in your mind, that you see most frequently with, um, with trainers with female clients?

Speaker 1:46:58 I would say the biggest mistake is not wanting to get strong. You know? The ... Getting strong doesn't make you a bad person. So the ... I, I would say from the outside, if I were to criticize the industry or give a f- fair evaluation, there's not enough time spent on overload with women. You know, in the sense that they, they don't have goals to ... for strength. So, you know, they, they, they should have short-term goals to comply to. Because, you know, whether it's a deadlift or ... You look at ... One of my top students, her name is Kelly Martinovic. She's out of Perth, Australia. You go to her gym and be really impressed with the quality of physiques of, of people that work in opal mines or dental assistants, whatever. All the females she trains are in great shape. And they could be, like, 70 years old. Uh, but, uh, one of my students, Jess in Sydney, she has a lady that's over 80. And this woman is deadlifting, you know, some pretty big weights with good form. And there's no excuses. So I, I find that where women lack the most is guidance to how to get strong or the, or being sold on the ability to get strong. Because, uh, in body composition, you need to build lean tissue. When you build lean tissue, you're more insulin sensitive. The more insulin sensitive you are, the easier it is to burn fat, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, uh, what I don't like is what I call enter training. So they keep the people happy and busy. But busy doesn't mean productive, okay? So I like people to have productive outcome. Um, one thing that has helped the industry tremendously actually is CrossFit. Um-

Tim Ferriss 1:48:50 Yeah, that, that was actually the next question, was sort of the, uh, what you, what you take from CrossFit that's good, bad, or in between.

Speaker 1:48:57 Okay. People think I'm anti-CrossFit for some unjust reason. But I think CrossFit ... What, what I ... I'll tell you what I like about it. One, they work hard. Do they work smart? Uh, not so much. But [laughs] they do work hard. So the intention is there. Okay? So, uh- One of ... There's a very good Hungarian proverb. If you only got one ass, you can't sit on two horses.

Tim Ferriss 1:49:21 [laughs]

Speaker 1:49:22 So, [laughs] so the, the problem in most CrossFit boxes is they're trying to accomplish too many things. Like I said, simple is, is better. And, you know, those guys with the CrossFit Games, and I know for a fact they're trained by good strength coaches, but to comply with politics, they say they do the WOD, the workout of the day, which is complete bullshit because I've done consulting for those coaches on how to train for CrossFit events. So for example, Klokov, uh, my co-lecturer in the series, he does very well at CrossFit Games, but he certainly doesn't do the workout of the day to get there. So the, so the intention is good. They use basic, simple, result-producing exercise that, that I like. What I don't like is that there's no screening before people come in. So what they don't do is that they don't look at people's orthopedic issues. So what ... If I were, again, emperor of all galaxies and you wanted a CrossFit license, people should be screened orthopedically. And then usually within eight to 12 weeks, you could straighten out somebody, and then they can do CrossFit. But I find the best CrossFit boxes are all in Scandinavia.

Tim Ferriss 1:50:40 Ah.

Speaker 1:50:41 Uh, they tend to do a more intelligent approach to that. And then m- Dmitry and I have been all over the world teaching, and he's, he's been in a lot of CrossFit boxes. And I asked him the same question, and he says, "Yeah, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, they tend to do a better job." Uh-

Tim Ferriss 1:50:57 Why, why do you think that is?

Speaker 1:50:59 I think that it's just, has to do with education. The trainers over there are better educated. And the third thing I like about CrossFit is that there's, they're big onto the paleo eating. Uh, so they're more conscious about their nutrition. You go to Planet Fitness, there's chocolate milk and pizza night on Friday, right?

Tim Ferriss 1:51:17 [laughs]

Speaker 1:51:17 Like, what, what the fuck's the point? Why do you want to eat pro-inflammatory foods? So, um, so the, so the, the way to make CrossFit better is actually ... For example, there's an accident where a guy severed his, his spine.

Tim Ferriss 1:51:32 Yeah. That was, uh, with a s- ... It was, I think he was performing the snatch, right?

Speaker 1:51:36 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:51:36 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Speaker 1:51:36 Well, one of the first things he ... That was learned, that was taught was how to get out of trouble. So [laughs] they say the bar, if you feel it goes like this, get rid of it by dumping it backwards or forward, and you jump accordingly depending on the direction of the bar. Well, obviously someone didn't teach him that because he made a rookie mistake by dropping it improperly. Um, so, you know, the Olympic lifts are complicated things. And to do Olympic lifts for repetitions is utterly stupid. So I don't believe in that. Um, my colleague Klokov is a bit less diplomatic than me, if you can believe that. He will-

Tim Ferriss 1:52:18 Is this, what is Klokov's ... Is that his last name or his first name?

Speaker 1:52:21 Last name. Dmitry Klokov. He was-

Tim Ferriss 1:52:23 Oh, Dmitry Klokov. We're talking about the guy with the thunder thighs. I mean, an incredible lifter.

Speaker 1:52:28 Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:52:28 Oh, yeah. Dmitry is amazing. Okay. I didn't realize you were co-lecturing with him. That's incredible.

Speaker 1:52:32 Yeah. Yeah, I did ... Uh, I'm doing another tour with him. We're going to Toronto, Las Vegas, and four places in, uh, Australia.

Tim Ferriss 1:52:39 Yeah.

Speaker 1:52:40 But I teach with him. We split the days. But he'll say something, "This is typical American CrossFit bullshit." And-

Tim Ferriss 1:52:47 [laughs]

Speaker 1:52:49 And then, [laughs] you know, he educates. But all the CrossFit attendees love him because he's got solutions to CrossFit problems. And the thing with Dmitry, I love lecturing with him because he will make sure that 100% of the students learn. He'll go to every single person. And I've been in this business 38 years, and every ... Uh, some of the stuff he's shown how to learn an exercise, I've never seen. So the Soviet approach, they, they don't like to teach you by talking. They teach you by what in French we call educatif, so educational exercise. So he won't say, "Put your hips forward." He'll make you do an exercise to make your hips go forward. Or if you ... Uh, so all, all corrections are done to a specific exercise which corrects the technical mistake. So e- there's, uh, very little talking. A- and it, a lot of it is, is about kinesthetic learning. Uh, I really like that.

Tim Ferriss 1:53:49 Yeah. No, just to, to add to that, um, and I haven't had a lot of experience with the Eastern European strength coaches, but the, uh, the Polish gent that I'm working with right now is exactly the same way. You know, I asked him his opinion, I won't mention names, but of a very famous woman who teaches posture, improving posture. And he said, "Well, I think it's bullshit because you can't just tell someone to improve their posture. You have to take them through movements that force them to improve their posture." [laughs]

Speaker 1:54:12 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:54:13 And, uh, it's, it's been really fascinating to work with him because like you said, it's, it's very light on words, but, uh-

Speaker 1:54:20 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 1:54:20 ... high on sort of progressive exercises. Um, what are some of the CrossFit problems that Dmitry has helped athletes, uh, fix for themselves?

Speaker 1:54:30 Well, when you take a seminar, the first thing he, he ... What, the way he does it is that ... I, I teach in morning, right? Some stuff. And he ... I'll tell you what he does. He shows up and he works out. He does one or two exercises in front of everybody. But th- this guy is amazing. I was in Montreal. He, it was the day after he landed from Moscow, so he was supposed to be jet-lagged. He slept in the van 20 minutes of the 40-minute ride. Didn't drink water. Didn't drink coffee. Didn't have breakfast. He shows up. Six warm-up sets. He takes 180 kilos, so 396 pound, power cleans it, and push presses twice.

Tim Ferriss 1:55:07 [laughs]

Speaker 1:55:10 Okay?

Tim Ferriss 1:55:10 And, and just so people, uh, can imagine this, Dmitry does not look like ... Uh, he, he's not a big, fat powerlifter.

Speaker 1:55:18 No.

Tim Ferriss 1:55:18 Um, this guy looks like Hercules.

Speaker 1:55:21 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:55:21 He is not- It remotely ... I mean, what do you think his body fat has to be? I mean, it's-

Speaker 1:55:25 Well, it, it's about 6%, but-

Tim Ferriss 1:55:27 Yeah

Speaker 1:55:27 ... right now he weighs 118 kilos, and he's about six feet tall. So he's about 260 at six feet. I mean, you could see his pancreas make insulin when he has a-

Tim Ferriss 1:55:36 Yeah

Speaker 1:55:36 ... a pizza. So, but, uh, he's ... I mean, we ... There's a lot of funny stuff, like we were in a restaurant in Montreal and the girl goes, "Sir, what would you like to drink?" He goes, "I want Coke." And the girl goes, "What?"

Tim Ferriss 1:55:49 [laughs]

Speaker 1:55:50 So I said in French, "No, he wants a Co- Coca-Cola." And of, and of course Paul Carter was there. He, he didn't want to be left out. So when the girl asked him, "What would you like to drink, sir?" He says, "A Diet Coke." But-

Tim Ferriss 1:56:01 [laughs]

Speaker 1:56:03 [laughs] But, you know, so we, we had to correct his English a bit, but it's a lot better now. [laughs] But, but I've never seen a freak. Uh, every day that he teaches, he does 95%, 200% of the world record as like, uh, the first demonstration.

Tim Ferriss 1:56:21 [laughs]

Speaker 1:56:22 Then, then we, we break for lunch, then I teach mobility for the Olympic lifts. And, uh, then Dimitry will say, for example, the first day it'll be snatch. And he'll go all, all these progressions. So the CrossFitter will know on Friday how to snatch properly. And, and he, uh, he, he says, "If you don't do PB, no dinner for you." So that's his word line. So everybody has to do a PB.

Tim Ferriss 1:56:48 Personal best.

Speaker 1:56:48 Then the next ... Yeah. Then the next day you'll do some other freak lift. Then he'll teach clean and jerk. So they'll all ... So I teach how to get flexible for the clean and jerk, because a lot of people do the exercise, but they shouldn't ... They don't deserve to do it. So I show them about an hour and a half how to be deserve, uh, deserve to clean and jerk. And, uh, on Sundays he teaches them how to squat. Uh, he teaches a bunch of, uh, different, uh, corrective lifts. Um, and, you know, they, they work their butts off, uh, with him. But the big ... What the CrossFitters get out of it is actually how to do the lifts, but also how to teach them, you know?

Tim Ferriss 1:57:30 Yeah.

Speaker 1:57:31 And-

Tim Ferriss 1:57:31 That's very important

Speaker 1:57:32 ... I think he could seriously teach somebody how to snatch in 20 minutes.

Tim Ferriss 1:57:36 Wow.

Speaker 1:57:36 But, uh, and the, the technique would be perfect, but it's, it's not what you see in CrossFit boxes by any means.

Tim Ferriss 1:57:42 Now s- so speaking of, say, the snatch.

Speaker 1:57:45 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 1:57:45 The, um, technically can be a pretty subtle, uh, nuanced movement.

Speaker 1:57:51 Mm.

Tim Ferriss 1:57:51 What, what are your favorite mobility exercises? You mentioned the m- mobility exercises for preparing someone for a movement like the snatch.

Speaker 1:58:02 The biggest problem in a snatch usually is, uh, how to activate the external rotators of the shoulder and how to make the internal rotators loose. So I spend a lot of time on different flexibility exercise. Sometimes I teach them acupuncture points that instantly correct the, the issue. I mean, you, you took that class in New York. So they, they're a lot of time savers. And, um, the, the biggest issue in a snatch is actually how, uh, good your rotator cuff is. And, uh, we spend an hour and a half on that. Uh, obviously it's hard to do by podcast to demonstrate them, but we, we go through sequences. And I also show them how to identify why the bar's not going into what we call the slot, right? And then, um, we, we also show them, uh, corrective exercises they could do on their own to strengthen those muscles so they can put the bar into the slot.

Tim Ferriss 1:59:03 And, um, is there ... Maybe we can, we can approach this from a different angle. Are, are there mobility exercises for the shoulder? Let's just say it's in the context of Olympic lifting or overhead lifting-

Speaker 1:59:15 Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 1:59:15 ... that you think should be thrown out or that, uh, that you would not recommend people do?

Speaker 1:59:23 Actually, I can't [laughs] answer that. I, I, I, I like to teach the correct way, so I'm not-

Tim Ferriss 1:59:30 Got it

Speaker 1:59:31 ... you know, I'm not over-focused on the bad way really.

Tim Ferriss 1:59:34 Yeah. I just know so many people who have injured shoulders. Um, what are exercises just ... Uh, I'll try this one more time. If you, if you don't want to answer it's fine.

Speaker 1:59:45 It's all good.

Tim Ferriss 1:59:45 But are, are there any exercises that you would ... Aside from the, the, the, the balancing sort of contralateral stuff and the cardio machines, are there are other free weight exercises that you, you think you would remove for novice and intermediate trainees?

Speaker 2:00:02 I, I would ... There's some that I would remove for all cases. One, the goblet squat. That is such a moronic exercise. Basically, you're limited by the strength of your rhomboids, your anterior deltoids, and your elbow flexors. So if you can do a, a goblet squat and overload your legs, that means you got a really, really [laughs] weak legs. You should be in a wheelchair. So that's a moronic exercise. Uh, a lot of the kettlebell stuff, like the kettlebell swings. If ... Ask any chiropractor, they'll tell you their business went up for disc injuries when they had a CrossFit box opening up next door that did a lot of kettlebell swings. Um, I think the kettlebell swings is very harmful to the disc structure. But the thing is, it ... the, the way it harms you, it's like a dental cavity. It doesn't happen overnight. So, uh, you know, you don't brush your teeth on a regular basis, one day you'll have a cavity. But people don't make ... You know. So the ... They don't make the link between the kettlebell swing and their back problems. Uh, that's an exercise I really hate. Um, one exercise I find overrated is the plank. Uh, another one I find utterly moronic is glute, uh, bridges. Um-

Tim Ferriss 2:01:19 Got ... Like, the, uh, the kinda supine glute bridges?

Speaker 2:01:22 Yeah, yeah. In fact, that's- There's so many exercises that recruit the glutes more effectively than that. And if it was that great, all Olympic lifters and powerlifters would do it because success in Olympic lifting and high jump, long jump is glute strength dependent, and no one does that exercise because it's a moronic exercise. Uh, it ... The thing, the, the load if you're any strong, the load ... First of all, when does it ever happen that the load is on the, uh, anterior pelvis area in, in real life? Only if you dismount an obese sexual partner, right?

Tim Ferriss 2:01:57 [laughs]

Speaker 2:01:58 I mean, that, that, that movement pattern with an overload never happens in, in life. So, I, I mean, unless you like to date obese women. But, uh, it's, it's a non-functional pattern. And, uh, a- and again, for cervical health, I'm not convinced it's the greatest thing for you. But because it's like cavities, the damage is done over time, people don't associate the problems. Uh ...

Tim Ferriss 2:02:23 What are good exercises for glute activation or engaging the glutes?

Speaker 2:02:28 The, the ... You can't beat deadlifts and squats and any type of split squat. I mean, those will transfer to ordinary activities, you know, everyday life activities. They'll improve your vertical jump. They'll improve your, uh, horizontal jumping ability, and so on. Um, but the thing is, is that you look at the guys who advocate those exercises, look at their track record. It doesn't exist. They, they, they've never produced anybody. But what I see in this industry is, you know, it's a very normal human nature to s- figure out where you are in the food chain, and these guys wanna move up the food chain by sa- saying something different. And I always use your analogy of, uh, s- if you're gonna do something different, it has to be an improvement or it has to be more fun. And I use the analogy you give about wearing your underwear over your jeans.

Tim Ferriss 2:03:20 [laughs]

Speaker 2:03:21 So, [laughs] so I thought that's a good example. But, uh, the, a lot of the new stuff is like wearing your underwear over your jeans. It, it's no improvement and it's ... The only thing that it's fun for is the people watching you, you know?

Tim Ferriss 2:03:36 [laughs]

Speaker 2:03:36 Because they make fun of you wearing your underwear over your jeans. So the, the, the ... Like I said, there's nothing new since 1896 in my opinion. So, uh, there's better ways to do the stuff from 1896, but the concepts were there a long time ago.

Tim Ferriss 2:03:53 Now, do you think ... There's a question about swings, with the kettlebell swing. Do you think that kettlebell swings are harmful? Or I, I guess I'm curious, the, um ... Are they harmful in any tech- gi- given any technique for the swing, or is part of the harm i- from, say, a kettlebell ... I'm sorry, a CrossFit box in the way that they perform the kettlebell swing?

Speaker 2:04:18 It, it actually ... There's no safe way to do the kettlebell swing. There's an exercise called a lumberjack where you use a, A, basically a loaded post. But in, in the lumberjack, the bar is moved vertically, not into a swing process. So people say, "Well, you recommend the lumberjack." Yeah, but the lumberjack is like a different load pattern for the power snatch. If you look at ... You know, Klokov and I, we talk about this when they ask us about the kettlebell swing. The goal in weightlifting is to lift the most weight in the most vertical way. So the, the, the best way to lift a lot of weight is to actually keep the weight in a straight line. The more horizontal displacement there is to the bar, there, there's more wasted effort and less weight is lifted. So, you know, that has been studied in biomechanics for years. It, it, it ... There's no, there's no two ways about it. So the ... What I don't like about the kettlebell swing is that the, the weight displaces away from the dish, not cl- uh, i- in squatting, uh, or snatches or clean jerk, the bar always stays close to the center of gravity.

Tim Ferriss 2:05:28 Got it. So I have a couple of questions from, uh, fans of the podcast who have, uh, put things out on, uh, Twitter and Facebook. So you've, you've answered quite a few of them already. But this one is from Mia, Health Urbanista. Uh, what are your thoughts on achieving maximal strength on a plant-based diet? Only plant place- plant-based diet.

Speaker 2:05:53 Never seen it.

Tim Ferriss 2:05:54 [laughs]

Speaker 2:05:56 I, I mean, my answer's quite, uh ... Because you need meat to get strong. Uh, I mean, I eat my vegetables through the animals I eat. I mean, they did the vegetable eating for me. So [laughs] the ... To be serious, I have never seen a world-class strength athlete that was only on a plant-based diet. I've seen octo-lacto vegetarians. Uh, uh, I've seen one who you could call a vegetarian, but they still had, uh, egg products and dairy products. But a vegan super strong athlete, never seen it.

Tim Ferriss 2:06:39 Got it. Uh, next is from Emily House. High-bar versus low-bar squat, sumo versus conventional deadlift, pros and cons.

Speaker 2:06:48 They all have pros and cons. They, they ... I- in regarding to the deadlift, uh, they're both good. I would say, uh, okay. The question is, what is the goal? You wanna move a lot of weight for a short distance so you can win a c- a priority in competition? Well, most world record holders do it in the sumo because it got better mechanics. But for training purposes, I think you should train both. For powerlifting, the goal is, can I displace the highest amount of weight for a given range of motion? So the low-bar squat will allow you to do that. Now, if you think about long-term health, uh, you look at high-bar squats. The reason why I say that is that you look at the incidents of hip replacement in powerlifters versus, uh, weightlifters, it's much greater in powerlifters because-

Tim Ferriss 2:07:42 Yeah, really high. Yeah

Speaker 2:07:43 ... bec- because of the, uh, my good friend, uh, Ed Coan had hip re- total hip replacement. So the, the fact that you restrict the range of motion doesn't allow the piriformis, for example, and the, all the rotators of the hip to gain, uh, optimal range. So if you are comp- Again, it goes back to the goal. Do you wanna compete in powerlifting and you wanna be world champion? Well, you gotta have a much higher squat with a low-bar squat. But if you're looking at, uh, squatting with a lot of carryover to a lot of different activities, I would say the high-bar squat, if you're gonna pick one, is your best investment.

Tim Ferriss 2:08:20 If you, if you had to pick the high-bar back squat, front squat, or overhead squat as the only squat you could use for athletes you work with, which one would you use?

Speaker 2:08:34 The front squat. And this I have a lot of statistical data on that because it is impossible to cheat on the, uh, front squat. But I'm talking ass to the grass front squat, meaning you leave a stain in the carpet in the bottom position. Uh, in my opinion, for athletic purposes, all squats should be done that way. The overhead squat is a screening exercise. So it's very good to assess just with an empty bar or even a broomstick the potential for lower extremity injuries. But as far as a training exercise, you're gonna be limited by your shoulder girdle strength. So I think that you could do it as a, you know, what I call a change-of-pace workout, but I wouldn't use it as a training exercise. That's for sure.

Tim Ferriss 2:09:27 And with the, with the front squat from a technical standpoint, do you have any particular ... Assuming people aren't competing in Olympic lifting-

Speaker 2:09:34 Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 2:09:34 ... do you have any preference in terms of arm placement? Do you have the arms kinda folded back with the elbows elevated? Do you have them crossed over? Um-

Speaker 2:09:44 No, they should use it the way the Olympic lifters do it. So, uh, slightly wider than shoulder width, elbows up as high as you can, and actually the elbows in. That locks the bar, uh, into right in front of your throat. If you can ... If you find the exercise comfortable in the front squat, you're not doing it correctly. Uh, you should feel some restriction in, uh, the neck when you front squat properly. O- of course, after, uh, a few weeks, you won't feel the ... It's like if you wear a wet T-shirt. It's uncomfortable for the first five minutes, then after that you get used to it. So people, you know, will tolerate the stress of not breathing properly within a few workouts. But, um, for example, in sports, in a lot of sports, I've developed formulas where if I know your front squat ... Let's say your incline press and your power snatch, I can tell how fast you can speed skate or how fast you can push a bobsleigh or whatever else. Uh, the ... I call them predictor formulas. But when I use a squat for prediction purposes, uh, I only use a front squat.

Tim Ferriss 2:10:49 Got it. This next question is from John Fox, uh, who's apparently a very big fan of your blog. Literally check it every day for new articles. [laughs] And that's, uh, that's Strength Sensei?

Speaker 2:11:01 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 2:11:02 Is it? Yep. strengthsensei.com. Uh, his question is ... He had quite a few questions, but I'm selecting a few here. Uh, one is, what are the most bang for your buck things that people can do to improve testosterone and sex drive?

Speaker 2:11:14 [laughs] Some people won't be happy with the answers. Change sexual partners. But [laughs] I mean, the, the ... As a rule, the ... For testosterone ... Actually, the, the best thing to increase testosterone is to lower cortisol because the same, uh, raw material that makes testosterone and cortisol is called, uh, pregnenolone.

Tim Ferriss 2:11:46 Right.

Speaker 2:11:47 A- and then under conditions of stress, your body is wired to preferentially go towards the cortisol pathway. So anything that lowers cortisol, uh, will increase testosterone. So for example, diminishing the amount of, uh, radiation exposure like cell phones, computer use, blah, blah, blah. Get off the fucking Facebook. That would be one of them. So, uh, that. Um, high zinc, high protein-containing foods, i.e. meat. Uh, there's a lot of research that backs up meat consumption for improving testosterone. So, uh, eating more meat, more red meat. Uh, but of, of course, you know, the, the quality of the meat makes a big difference. Cold exposure to cold baths will increase testosterone.

Tim Ferriss 2:12:41 What type of duration or frequency or, or, um, protocol would you suggest?

Speaker 2:12:48 I'm not up to date on the literature. I mean, you know more about this topic than I do. But that's one thing that, uh, I've seen some papers on, but I didn't really expand on it. But the ... I think reducing stress and the quality of sleep. Quality of sleep is underrated for, um, producing testosterone. Uh, so you need to do what you need to do. So one of the things I recommend to people is to sleep in a bat cave. So the room you sleep in should be as dark as possible. It's one of the things I talk a lot about at seminars. Like in that powerful executive seminar, one of the topics is the importance of sleep on regeneration. But I think it's the most underrated one. Uh, it's not a question I can answer in five minutes, but sleep, meat- Uh, cold baths and decreasing stress are the four, four most, uh, bang for your buck. Um [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 2:13:44 And, and failing all that, a new sexual partner it sounds like.

Speaker 2:13:47 That's right. That's right.

Tim Ferriss 2:13:48 [laughs]

Speaker 2:13:48 Because the, the, the, the thing is, is that, you know, it... th- this is a reality, y- whether it's animal or, or h- uh, human evidence, the, uh, changing sexual partners increases testosterone. But-

Tim Ferriss 2:14:04 [laughs]

Speaker 2:14:05 ... you may not, you know, it's not for everybody. But the point is, is that, you know, yes, that question I'll answer you truthfully.

Tim Ferriss 2:14:11 [laughs] Uh, so this question, uh, I, I, I could add a lot of caveats to this question, but this is John's question, and I think it's a very common one. Um, what supplements should everyone take, uh, whether men, women, or all people in a, in a broad age range?

Speaker 2:14:28 I think the most underrated supplement, if you have a perfect diet, which is rare, is magnesium. Even with a perfect diet, you can't get enough magnesium. I don't care what you say. I, I've measured people's red blood cell magnesium for years. If there's one thing I consistently see low is that one, and when you consistently improve it, you see changes all across blood work, right? So how much magnesium? I think males should take four grams a day, females 2.4. Uh, the second one, it depends-

Tim Ferriss 2:15:04 What type of magnesium? Sorry to interrupt.

Speaker 2:15:06 I... Magnesium, I think the best magnesium out there is magnesium threonate if I, if I were to pick one. But I prefer the different chelates, so I use glycinate, I use orotate. If you look at the physiology behind it, and there's a lot of good research that you easily find, is that every form of magnesium tends to go to a specific tissue. So for example, magnesium glycinate has a prefent- preference for liver and muscle tissue. Magnesium orotate tends to work more on the vascular system. Magnesium threonate is more of a GABA inducer, therefore it improves sleep. So personally, I take, uh, two grams of magnesium threonate as a last meal before going to bed, and I use various forms of chelates, uh, like magnesium glycerol phosphate from GABAmag. I use that. I use, uh, magnesium lysinate, glycinate. Uh, I use... And it's good to vary your forms because as the research shows, it tends to go to different tissues.

Tim Ferriss 2:16:07 Got it.

Speaker 2:16:08 The second most important supplement in my opinion for the average person would be a good, uh, fish oil, and you should vary the fish oil. But when they add fish oil, I prefer the brands like the Omega Avail from Designs for Health, which has, uh-

Tim Ferriss 2:16:23 Can you, can you say that name one more time, please?

Speaker 2:16:25 Omega Avail from-

Tim Ferriss 2:16:27 Avail. Got it

Speaker 2:16:28 ... yeah, from, uh, Designs for Health. So this... Where do you have added D3, K1, and K2. When you add D3, K1, K2, the cardiovascular benefits of that fish oil go exponentially. Uh, number three, it depends where you live around the world, but if you certainly live in the UK, Ireland or Australia, you are zinc deficient. So again, I prefer to use multiple forms of, uh, zinc chelates, like glycinate, uh, orotate, blah, blah, blah. And, uh, so broad-based zinc intake. Uh, in testosterone levels, zinc is underestimated. Uh, you will find, for example, when I worked a lot with hockey players, uh, guys were trying to add, let's say, by the time they came to see me, they usually were in their 30s. They had usually two kids, but they're always trying for a third or fourth child, and they became fertile after about four months of, uh, mag... uh, sorry, zinc use. So f- fertility is highly associated with zinc status. But if you look at the research, zinc status is one of the best predictors of, quote-unquote, maleness. So the more androgenic you want to be, the more zinc you need. But to detoxify foreign estrogens, the enzymes that do that are also zinc based. So it, it works in multiple patterns. You know, zinc is known as a great organizer in human tissues, so you, you can't organize chemistry properly if you don't have enough zinc. Uh-

Tim Ferriss 2:18:08 What, what type of, uh, dosages do you typically recommend?

Speaker 2:18:13 First time clients, uh, you'll be surprised, I use about 180 milligrams a day for about six months. Uh, and if you ask Mark Houston or Esther Bloom, anybody who does clinical nutrition on a regular basis, they will agree with that value because, uh, 30 millig- And the thing is, is that in the early, late '70s, you could change a guy's testosterone fairly rapidly with only 30 milligrams of supplements a day. But I don't see that anymore. The doses you need are at about six times greater in the last 30 years.

Tim Ferriss 2:18:43 Is that just due to ground soil depletion or what is the cause?

Speaker 2:18:46 Multiple factors. I think there's, uh, ground depletion, uh, the type of fertilizers we use, but also the stress of the toxic load from the environment. So if you're, let's say, putting a shampoo that has a lot of estrogenic properties, you'll need to detoxify those molecules. And those molecules in hepatic detox- detoxification processes always, almost always use zinc as one of the co-factors to detoxify those xenoestrogens.

Tim Ferriss 2:19:18 That makes perfect sense. All right. Uh, let's shift gears just a little bit. Have, uh, just a couple more questions, and then, um, would love to hear, of course, where everyone can find more information on everything you're up to. What, uh... Before we get to that, when you think of the word successful, who is the first person who comes to mind?

Speaker 2:19:39 Actually, Winston Churchill

Tim Ferriss 2:19:42 Why is that?

Speaker 2:19:43 Well, [laughs] this guy had balls. I mean, he, he stood up to Hitler. He rallied the, the United Kingdom. He refused to surrender. He's a Nobel Prize winner in literature. Very few people know that. Um, he was named Britain most, uh, valuable Briton 2002. I mean, he's the one who, uh, contributed to the defeat of the Nazi empire. Um, I think that, uh, his attitude and his, um... He applied a lot of the success principles too, like napping and so on. And he, uh, he predicted a lot of things that the Americans did not listen to. For example, he predicted the Iron Curtain. He told, uh, Roosevelt that he was getting screwed at Yalta by Stalin. You know, Roosevelt conceded way too many things to the Russians. And we've had many problems since then, but he was a visionary. Uh, and he was... He took a lot of decisions that were unpopular at the time because they required balls, and he was later found through history to have been right i- in the first place. So, uh, I think that if you wanna study success, you should study, uh, Churchill.

Tim Ferriss 2:21:08 Yeah, Churchill's a fascinating, fascinating character, and also a great example of, um, how, how incredible- how incredibly productive you can be with some, um, very widely perceived weaknesses as well. I mean, just a... I mean, definitely a, a whole character, and, uh, I think a good exemplar of how to focus on your strengths.

Speaker 2:21:32 Exactly.

Tim Ferriss 2:21:33 Uh, what is your favorite documentary or movie?

Speaker 2:21:37 You know what? As far as movies, I tend to have laser-like focus all day. So for me, a good movie involves 60 people getting killed in a gruesome way in the first 30 minutes.

Tim Ferriss 2:21:47 [laughs]

Speaker 2:21:48 Like [laughs] like I said, something like John Wick. I mean, I watch movies to distract me. So if you ask me movies I like, I like The Last Samurai, I like Gladiator. You know, I like movies where the hero has to struggle, uh, and overcome difficulty. But, you know, uh, there's a movie like, uh, called The Imitation Game, which has none of these, uh, descriptions, uh, and I really liked it. I, I, I'm a big movie buff, but for me, movies is to take my mind away from what I do, uh, every day. Uh, you know, obviously I run high on dopamine and acetylcholine, so action movies are a far better choice for me than Sleepless in Seattle.

Tim Ferriss 2:22:30 [laughs]

Speaker 2:22:31 So [laughs] yeah. But I, uh, I, you know, the thing... I, I really like National Geographic, uh, the documentaries they have. I really like, uh, learning about animal life. You know, my daughter and I share that stuff. Um, I really like to learn about ecosystems. So those ch- You, you know, I like the History Channel. I'm not a big movie, uh, TV watcher. If I'm gonna watch something, it's usually a movie that I, that I rent. Uh, when I'm overseas and I'm sick and tired of teaching, I'll go watch a movie to take my mind off. I find it's a good, uh... I like Quentin Tarantino movies. I mean, I like, I like usually action-based stuff.

Tim Ferriss 2:23:17 There's, um... I have, I have a movie recommendation that you might enjoy. There's a movie called, and I'm gonna butcher this, but, uh, Un Prophète.

Speaker 2:23:24 Uh, uh.

Tim Ferriss 2:23:24 So a, a Prophet, about this young Middle Eastern kid who gets thrown into a French prison and gets adopted by the Corsican mafia.

Speaker 2:23:32 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 2:23:32 And it tracks his growth from the lowest on the totem pole to the highest on the totem pole.

Speaker 2:23:37 Oh, really?

Tim Ferriss 2:23:38 It's an amazing action movie. Yeah.

Speaker 2:23:40 Okay.

Tim Ferriss 2:23:40 Really, really good.

Speaker 2:23:41 Did you see, uh, 22 Bullets?

Tim Ferriss 2:23:43 No, [laughs] I haven't seen 22 Bullets.

Speaker 2:23:45 That, that's another French movie with Jean Reno, which is a great movie about, uh, a guy that tries to retire from the mafia and they don't let him. It, it's a... If you like action, that's a great movie.

Tim Ferriss 2:23:57 22 Bullets. I'll check it out.

Speaker 2:23:59 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 2:23:59 Uh, in the last, say, six to 12 months, um, what $100 or less purchase has most positively impacted your life?

Speaker 2:24:09 Actually, it was a gift, so I'm not sure what the price was, but it can't be that high. It's called the bamboo bench. I featured it on my website. All it is, it's a, a sliced foam roller inside a leather condom with Velcro straps, and you put it over a regular bench. And it has this half-moon shape where your spine rests. So when you do pressing movements, you can drop the elbows much further, uh, than with a regular bench. It allows for a more free scapular, uh, movement. And it, uh, allows for a greater range of motion when you lift. But it allows you for pain-free upper body pressing.

Tim Ferriss 2:24:53 Huh. And it's called the bamboo bench?

Speaker 2:24:55 Yeah. All it is, it's like a, a condom that you put on a bench that has a half-moon, um, f- uh, s- spine roller inside of it, and it allows you... If you go to my website and you search under bamboo bench, there's a video that I shot in Stuttgart explaining how to use it. But for, you know, for what it costs or what you have to invest, it's a great, uh, investment on the health and strength of your shoulders.

Tim Ferriss 2:25:25 Very cool. I... [laughs] That sounds like my next purchase.

Speaker 2:25:29 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 2:25:29 Uh, the, uh... What does, uh, what does the first 60 to 90 minutes of your day look like? People are fascinated by morning rituals. So just in your ideal sort of... Let's just say it's a workday.

Speaker 2:25:41 Hmm.

Tim Ferriss 2:25:41 What does your, what does your ideal 60 to 90 minutes look like?

Speaker 2:25:45 It depends if I'm on the road or not, but-

Tim Ferriss 2:25:47 Let's say you're not on the road

Speaker 2:25:48 ... okay, like today. So I wake up early. I tend to wake up at 4:00. Why do I wake up at 4:00? Well, nobody's gonna bother me. [laughs] So I got two hours to myself. So if that week I have my daughter, I can do whatever I want to do for two hours before I wake her up, make her breakfast, and drive to school. So I wake up with a ravishing appetite. So every day I start, when I'm at home, with some type of wild meat, some type of nuts, and sometimes berries or avocados. So, uh, I eat that, then I make coffee, and I'm quite, uh, fanatical about the way I make coffee. Uh, so-

Tim Ferriss 2:26:30 How do you make your coffee? [laughs]

Speaker 2:26:32 Well, for example, the wa- there it has to be near freezing point. The reason why I do that is that it takes longer to warm up the water. Because it takes long- er, to warm up, then there's more time for the steam to diffuse through the coffee beans. Therefore, the coffee has more caffeine, more, uh, of all the antioxidants. So when you drink that coffee ... If I make you a cup of coffee, Tim, today, you may fall asleep Valentine's Day. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 2:26:59 [laughs]

Speaker 2:27:00 So, so people who've been to my house and drink my coffee, you know, they start having convulsions in their faces after two sips. But I, I really like very cold coffee. Uh, and one thing that is high in pesticides is actually, uh, coffee. It's one of the most sprayed plants on the planet. So I get my beans either from the Dominican Republic. I've got a, a client who owns their own plantation, and when I go to DR I stock up. Or, uh, one of my assistant teachers, Carlos Castro, is from the Colombia, and he brings me in, uh, organic coffee from Colombia. Or I buy the one from Kona island in Hawaii. So I really like the c- coffee beans, uh, to be of, of choice. So I drink a cup of coffee. And then typically-

Tim Ferriss 2:27:46 Ju- ju- just black? Or how do you take your coffee?

Speaker 2:27:48 Like my soul.

Tim Ferriss 2:27:49 [laughs]

Speaker 2:27:50 Black. [laughs] And sometimes I put, uh, actually coconut oil in it, uh, if I need to get a bit more wired. Uh, sometimes I use very, very heavy cream, like about 35%.

Tim Ferriss 2:28:04 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:28:04 Uh, it's funny because I was in London at the Marriott, and there's a Polish waiter. And I s- asked for coffee, and the guy comes in with already the, what the, the British call double cream in it. And I go, "How did you know I like my coffee like that?" And he says, "I read your post every day." [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 2:28:20 [laughs]

Speaker 2:28:20 And so ... But I ... Sometimes I use cream, but probably 70% of the time I drink it black like my soul. But the, um ... And then I read. I like to read one hour on, uh, non-specific-to-my-job stuff. So I may read, let's say, a biography on Churchill, or I may read, uh, a book like 59 Seconds. Uh, uh, they're more what you would call self-improvement books. I read recently a book ... I probably read a book a day. So I read, uh, I'm a very good speed reader, so I, I read a book on resilience. Or this morning at breakfast I was reading a French book on German grammar because- [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 2:29:03 [laughs]

Speaker 2:29:04 ... you know, I was recently-

Tim Ferriss 2:29:04 Sounds like, it sounds like a page-turner. [laughs]

Speaker 2:29:06 Yeah, I love it. I was in, in Germany, uh, last month, and I realized I'd lost a lot of my German. So I, I said, "Okay, I've got to catch up my, my German." So ... Or sometimes what I do is I'll type in sentences on Bing Translate, and I look at the German equivalent or the Swedish equivalent, whatever language I want to learn, just so ... They, sentences I use all the time in my practice. So like keep your back straight, go lower in a squat, blah, blah, blah, you know? So, uh, I do that. And then, yeah, they're not page-turners, but it's stuff I like to read. Or even when I'm overseas, I buy classic comic books like Asterix in, let's say, in Swedish, or Lucky Luke in Swedish or whatever, and I read those because it's a fun way to learn a foreign language without really, uh, stressing myself.

Tim Ferriss 2:29:54 It's, it, that's exactly the same thing that I do also.

Speaker 2:29:57 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 2:29:57 Uh, by ... Because it's also, um, heavy on dialogue, so you get-

Speaker 2:30:01 Yes

Tim Ferriss 2:30:01 ... so you get conversation.

Speaker 2:30:02 I, I know how to say, "You're under arrest," in 76 languages. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 2:30:08 [laughs]

Speaker 2:30:08 But the thing is, is that, uh ... And then a- after that I read, I read one hour specific to my job. So ... And I like to read a lot of my colleagues' stuff. So one guy I really like is Josh Bryant. So he just wrote a really good book on interval training. So that's what I'm gonna read tomorrow. Um, and then I don't read much on the internet because I find there's too much bullshit. So, uh, I, um, I, I use a Kindle a lot because it allows me to flip the pages faster. And what I like about the Kindle is I can actually highlight what I find interesting. And then a- at the end of my reading, I reread what I ha- highlighted, which increases your retention by another 70%. So, uh ... And then on Sundays, I tend to reread the highlights of all the books I read. So, you know, that goes up to 95%. People always wonder how come I got a good memory. Well, there's some tricks to it, you know? So repetition is important. And then, um, after that, then I start my day at work. So I'll write or I'll coach or whatever I need to. On the road ... Oh, I, usually if I drive my daughter, as soon as I get back I train. I've got a very good gym in my house. Um, if I'm on the road, I wake up, I eat breakfast, I do some reading. It depends on the distance of the gym.

Tim Ferriss 2:31:37 What is your go-to breakfast, uh, at home?

Speaker 2:31:42 It's always a wild meat. Always.

Tim Ferriss 2:31:44 How do you prepare that typically?

Speaker 2:31:46 I typically, uh, fry it in goat butter

Tim Ferriss 2:31:49 Got it

Speaker 2:31:50 Uh, so it could be... So this morning was chicken breast, but, uh, and I rarely eat, uh, chicken for breakfast. It's always a red meat. But I'm showing something different today. And then I always have a nut, uh, whether it's walnut. I really like macadamia nuts, but I vary that so I don't develop intolerances. And then in Colorado, you can get very good berries year-round, so I eat sometimes berries or I eat avocados. Um, and then, like I said, the coffee. On the road, it's one of the reasons why I stay at the Marriott worldwide is it's the only place that'll serve steak and eggs. So [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 2:32:32 [laughs]

Speaker 2:32:32 You know, it's really a hot... Like, when you ask for steak in, like in Italy, you might as well a- ask the question with an aquarium on top of your head. They're like, "What? Steak?" You know, "You eat for breakfast?" So, uh, in Sweden, they have these, uh, ethnic shrimp that I like. Uh, they're very small shrimp. So I'll buy it out of the supermarket, keep it in my mini bar. So in the morning I may have shrimp and cashews for breakfast. So one thing that I don't negotiate on ever is breakfast. I am a maniac about breakfast. I don't want to eat croissant or fucking prison eggs, as my friends would call them-

Tim Ferriss 2:33:12 [laughs]

Speaker 2:33:13 ... for breakfast. And the, the salmon is always farmed salmon. It tastes disgusting. So, uh, in Manchester, there was no way I could get steak and eggs for breakfast, so my assistant and I, we bought sardines. So I had sardines and Brazil nuts for breakfast the next day. So I, I, I don't negotiate on that. For me, I either have meat, fish, or seafood s- and some nuts. But I find f- for me, it's been one of the secrets to my success because when you teach, you gotta pay attention. You gotta remember what you gotta say. You gotta be enthusiastic. And if I were to eat what hotels typically give, uh, I wouldn't do so well. Even when I fly, if I go to Europe, I only fly, uh, uh, Swiss Air or, uh, Air France because if I land, I always have a connection. And Air France has the best business or first class lounge in the world. Second is, uh, Swiss Air. And when I fly west, if I go to Australia, I always fly with, um, Air New Zealand because, again, the, the quality of the lounge is important to me, you know.

Tim Ferriss 2:34:23 For the food.

Speaker 2:34:24 Yeah, for the food and, you know, can you take a shower? Can you... You know. American-based, uh, airlines are useless. United-

Tim Ferriss 2:34:34 [laughs]

Speaker 2:34:34 ... Delta, American, fuck. You may fly with Air Botswana. You'd probably get better [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 2:34:42 [laughs]

Speaker 2:34:42 Better service. And, you know, I find with these a- airlines I named, they, they actually believe in quality service, you know. And, uh, for example, I think Air France is great. Like, I landed from Dusseldorf. In Paris, somebody was there to pick me up, with my name. He drove me to the first class lounge. I didn't have to clear customs. They take your passport for you. They go do it for you. Lufthansa does the same thing, so does Swiss Air. And, you know, uh, people say, "Well, you waste money traveling first class." I don't believe that because I give a much better seminar if I fly first class than if I fly economy. I can... And, you know, one of my unique abilities is I, I can fall asleep in a shooting yard. I can sleep anywhere, anytime, but I need to sleep when I fly over. And when you fly first class, you're guaranteed quality sleep because there's no one-year-old kid crying, you know, uh, uh, some guy opening up his Tupperware with fucking microwaved broccoli, you know. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 2:35:44 [laughs]

Speaker 2:35:44 So you, you could say I'm a snob. Yes, I am. But e- everything over the years, even as early as 1982 when, when I was paying for my own flights, I've always flown business or first because the quality of your teaching will dictate the success or the quality of your coaching will dictate the success, and that will pay way b- uh, enough, your first class tickets. So I, I, you know... I've had discussions with people about that. But I, I still believe. And also, it's a mindset, you know. You want a first class life, fly first class. You know.

Tim Ferriss 2:36:17 Yeah. I've, um, I've found for myself, you know, it took me a long time. Yeah, my family didn't grow up with a lot of money. It took me a long time to, to make the transition from economy to business, and the only reason that I made that jump was because I tried to save money on an international flight specifically and had to do a speaking engagement the next, next day, and it was a disaster because I couldn't sleep. And it was, uh... It, it all came down to preserving the ability to sleep if there's some type of, of business engagement on the other end. Um, if you could have one billboard anywhere, uh, what would it say and where would it be?

Speaker 2:36:57 That's an interesting question. Probably it, it would say know yourself.

Tim Ferriss 2:37:05 And where would you put it?

Speaker 2:37:07 Times Square.

Tim Ferriss 2:37:08 Times Square. [laughs]

Speaker 2:37:09 I mean, [laughs] highest pop- population density because the... I, I look at, you know, in my industry, but I take shooting lessons, right? I love to shoot. I think it's a great relaxation exercise. And I, and I said to him... And, and my shooting instructor follows a lot the strength industry. And he said they have the same issues in the shooting industry with people wanting the attention of, of the consumer, right? And I think that, uh, the, the key to, to success in anything is Know yourself first and then, you know, uh, uh, Klokov, he was telling his students that there's one thing that he keeps constant is his weightlifting prep. He's learned over the years not to mess with that. But he says the other, uh, 45 weeks or so left out of the year, he goes on a day-to-day basis. And he says, he says, "Training is like food. Sometimes you eat more, sometimes you eat less. You have to eat when you're hungry." So y- you know, if you look at his... It, it's a very simplistic way to explain training, but it's very true. So, you know, he, he, he explains why he only squats twice a week. A lot of guys in his field will squat nine times a week. But if you look at his longevity, it's really high. Uh, he's remained pretty much injury-free. Um, and the, the thing is, is that, you know, for example, Ed Coan, he has a way to train that's very different than what Klokov would do, but I respect Ed a lot. But I found over the years all these successful people figured out what worked best for them. And, uh, it's correct to ask guys like me, you know, the so-called gurus or the senseis for advice, but at the end of the day, you have to make a decision. I mean, I can make you make a more enlightened decision because I've made a lot of mistakes. I mean, the only guy I know who's never, never, never made a mistake in his life pumps gas in a gas station in British Columbia, in Kelowna.

Tim Ferriss 2:39:25 [laughs]

Speaker 2:39:26 You know, he, he's my age and never made a mistake. He still makes 8 bucks an hour. So you learn by making mistakes. And, you know, they, they, they... There's a saying, "Good judgment comes from experience, but experience comes from ju- bad judgment." So I tell that in my seminars. I often tell stories of how I screwed up medals at the Olympics, but I didn't make that same mistake twice. And, you know, that's why I like in speed skating, it's probably the sport that I'm most successful in because, and early on I made quite a few mistakes, and I learned not, not to do them again.

Tim Ferriss 2:39:59 What advice would you give to your 30-year-old self?

Speaker 2:40:06 Stop working [laughs] so much. I used to work 20 hours a day, Tim.

Tim Ferriss 2:40:12 That's a lot of hours.

Speaker 2:40:13 Plus I would train an hour. So y- I thought that sleep was for wimps. Well, it's not true. I mean, [laughs] it, you know... I think there's another book that I read in '91 which changed my outlook. It was called Life 101. And, uh, it, there's... It, it depend- It's an old book, so sometimes you'll find there's two authors, sometimes there's one author. But there was actually only one real author to the book. So eventually, it was Peter McDowell. But he taught me how to distinguish the difference between a fantasy and a goal. And I won't give you the, the, the punchline, but it has to do a lot with, uh... You, you have to do the exercise in the book. So in the book he'll say, he'll give some theory, always in a funny way, then he'll say, "Do you have 20 minutes? Yes or no?" If it's yes, well, do the exercise. You don't have 20 minutes, don't keep on reading. And the people who keep on reading never get the full essence of the book. If he s- if he asks you, "Do you have 20 minutes? Yes or no?" You don't have 20 minutes, put the book down. Next time when you have 20 minutes, do the exercise. But that was a, a life-changing book for me. And after that, my, uh, success at the international, uh, international level skyrocketed when I applied those principles. But if I were to, to think back on my life, I should have had more fun and I should have worked a lot less. And then actually when I read your book, I wa- I was always starting to evolve towards more free time and better organization. And you recommended to me in personal conversation more books, like the one by your friend, I think it's Edward Baruta or, uh, the... It, it's about s- simplify your life. I forget the, the author. Anyway, I read him. I decided to have less goals. And the more I evolve, it's again simplify, simplify, simplify, simplify. And, um, uh, I tell that to some of my best students. Like I say, "Hey, go on vacation." Uh, it's not so hard with my non-British, non-American students, but Canadians, Americans, and British tend to way overwork. You know?

Tim Ferriss 2:42:31 Yeah. I agree. It's, um, blocking it out ahead of time, really, really, really critical. Putting those things on the cal- the calendar so that work doesn't swell to fill all of the voids.

Speaker 2:42:43 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 2:42:43 Well, Charles, this has, this has, uh, been a lot of fun. I always love chatting and catching up. Where can people find everything about you, and, uh, what would you like them to check out?

Speaker 2:42:56 The best, uh, place to find my stuff is, uh, strengthsensei.com. Uh, and then if people want to attend seminars, there's an envelope called, uh, calendar of events, and it's probably the most simplistic way to... It's a world map and there's like arrows. So if you don't want to travel so much, and let's say you live in Australia and you see I'm coming to Perth and click the Perth flag, and then it'll tell you which seminars there are. But also there's different ways to search if you, based on topic, what type of class you want. And, uh, my next project is I'm working on a membership-only site. The reason is, is because of social media, people ask these questions. I don't have any time on social media to explain them. But on a membership site, people will be able to say... I'll say, for example, uh, this month I'm gonna really go into detail on choosing the right set, choosing the right rep range, right? And I'll talk for, for let's say 90 minutes. So people will be able to watch that, and I'll give routines and recipes and tips. B- And anticipate it to be a very successful site, uh, because there's a demand for it, and people are willing to pay a nominal fee, which is less than 20 bucks a month to get top-level information. Because, you know, Facebook is nice. I leave tips there, and I, I leave links to my website. But it, it never allows for... And I got this advice from you, actually, for videos on me explaining something. The written word never really catches everything. Uh, and there's a lot to be learned from body language. And if I explain a technique, I, I can explain it in writing, but you could tell by the questions that people didn't understand it at all. So most people are visual learners. So the, uh, membership site, which should be out within the next three months, will be up soon. And of course, we'll broadcast that.

Tim Ferriss 2:44:48 And you'll announce that on strengthsensei.com.

Speaker 2:44:51 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 2:44:51 Uh, where can people find you on social media if they want to just receive those updates as you publish them?

Speaker 2:44:57 Uh, Strength Sensei on Facebook.

Tim Ferriss 2:45:00 Got it. All right.

Speaker 2:45:01 And-

Tim Ferriss 2:45:02 Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2:45:02 Go, go ahead. And I've got a Strength Sensei equivalent in German, Spanish, Russian, and French. So if you go Strength Sensei Deutsch, it'll, uh, be the German version. And in French, Sensei de la Force, and then in S- Sensei de la Forza in Spanish. So, uh, so f- depending on your, uh, native tongue, uh, the same information is there. And I've got about a dozen translation in different languages to my site. So if English is not your first language, and you're more comfortable, let's say, with German or Dutch or French, uh, the most popular articles get translated. Um, and even in Russian. So, uh, it's, it's picking up. I mean, my website, this sm- ending, I think it's 83,000 on Alexa. So for, for being in, in that new business for a year and a half, it's a pretty good score.

Tim Ferriss 2:45:57 Yeah. And I will, obviously, everybody listening, link to all of the sites and, uh, to Charles on social media in the show notes.

Speaker 2:46:06 Mm-hmm.

Tim Ferriss 2:46:07 Uh, so you guys could find the links and resources and so on at fourhourworkweek.com/podcast, all spelled out. Uh, any parting, parting comments or parting words, Charles?

Speaker 2:46:18 Well, uh, uh, the, the parting words is thank you. I mean, you... It's a, a great honor for me to be in the same list of, uh, uh, invitees as Schwarzenegger and Anthony Robbins. I mean, th- those are big names. So, uh-

Tim Ferriss 2:46:34 You're a big name, too.

Speaker 2:46:35 Yeah, but you know what? It's like, uh, i- it's a big pleasure for me, and I really appreciate your time and the ability to be, uh, reaching your audience. I think that what I want, be most grateful f- for is that I think that people who have a ill-perceived notion of me, uh, will know more of my human side. And, um, I think that's a big factor, uh, in life. And I'm, uh, forever grateful for that opportunity, Tim.

Tim Ferriss 2:47:02 Oh, my pleasure. I really wanted people to have the, the chance to kinda sit down with us at the table and, and really dig deep and, uh, get to know you a bit. So I, um, I really appreciate it. I'm sure people will, uh, let us know if they want a round two, which I'm sure will be the case. And, uh, until next time, everybody, thank you for listening.

Speaker 2:47:22 Thank you, Tim. [upbeat music]

Tim Ferriss 2:47:28 This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, "If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?" And my answer is inevitably Athletic Greens. It is your all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body, did not get paid for that. And I travel with it to avoid getting sick. I take it in the mornings to ensure optimal performance. It just covers all my bases if I can't get what I need through whole food meals throughout the rest of the day. And you can get 50... Oh my gosh, 50% off. Yes, 50% off if you go to athleticgreens.com/tim. That's athleticgreens.com/tim. Check it out. It's tasty, but more important, it will help you not screw up when you're doing your nutritional planning. So for me, just covers the bases, takes a load off my mind, puts a lot in my body. And, uh, check it out, athleticgreens.com/tim. [upbeat music] This episode is brought to you by 99designs, your one-stop shop for all things graphic design related. I have used 99designs for everything from banner ads to book covers, including sketches and mock-ups that led to The 4-Hour Body, which later became number one New York Times, number one Wall Street Journal. And the brainstorming, a lot of it took place with designers from around the world, and here's how it works. Whether you need a T-shirt, a business card, a website, an app thumbnail, whatever it might be, you submit that project, and designers from around the world will send you sketches and mock-ups and designs. You choose your favorite, and you have an original that you love, or you get your money back. It's that straightforward. And many of you