Tim FerrissThe Blind Card Magician Phenom Who Will Blow Your Mind — Richard Turner
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
120 min read · 23,835 words- 0:00 – 0:15
Intro
- TFTim Ferriss
[upbeat music]
- 0:15 – 2:07
The Magic Castle: the premier stage for magicians
- TFTim Ferriss
I'm just gonna start at the beginning. Richard, welcome to the show, and thanks for coming to Austin.
- RTRichard Turner
Tim, I'm honored to be here. It is very much my pleasure.
- TFTim Ferriss
And I was mentioning this before we started recording, I have had you at the top of my list for people I wanna spend time with, because I find just about everything about you fascinating, [laughs] and I've wanted to ask so many questions. And, uh, I thought we would start maybe in a place that, that would be unexpected for people listening. I'm not gonna start way at the beginning in childhood. We'll probably get there.
- RTRichard Turner
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
But let's start with The Magic Castle.
- RTRichard Turner
Okay.
- TFTim Ferriss
What, what is The Magic Castle?
- RTRichard Turner
The Magic Castle is to magic what the Grand Ole Opry is to country western music. It's the premium place for magicians to perform around the world, and they have what is the equivalent of the Oscar, the Academy of Magical Arts Awards, AMA Awards. And, um, but we, uh... It's a 27,000 square foot Victorian mansion built in 1907, and there's... You go in, it's strictly for adults 21 or over, must have ID. M- Back to the old days, you have to have coat and tie. You cannot overdress. If you're underdressed, they don't let you in. They don't like the way you're dressed, they don't let you in. And, uh, and it's by invitation only, but it's just a very, very fun venue and place to perform. I just got returned from performing at the Castle la- night before last. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
I just flew in last night.
- TFTim Ferriss
You have one of the busiest schedules I've ever heard of, and I've met some very, very, uh, driven-
- RTRichard Turner
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
... busy people. Uh, The Magic Castle has been this vision in my head, or it was I should say, for many years, and I had the opportunity to go there for the first time just last year-
- RTRichard Turner
Oh
- 2:07 – 5:01
Dai Vernon and the guarded world of gambling sleight-of-hand
- TFTim Ferriss
... with, with a member, and I- it just blew my mind to see the variety of skill and the level of skill in the various rooms. Because there are these, these, uh, different rooms for different perform- performers and different types of performances. Could you speak to, and I, I, I hope I'm getting this name right, Dai Vernon.
- RTRichard Turner
Oh, yes, you got it right.
- TFTim Ferriss
So who, who is Dai Vernon, and how did you first meet?
- RTRichard Turner
Well, Dai Vernon, first of all, was born in 1894. He lived to be over 98 years old. My wife, my beautiful wife, Kim, and I threw him his 98th birthday party two months before he passed away. And he was known as the man who fooled Houdini, and that took place 100 years ago this year.
- TFTim Ferriss
Wow.
- RTRichard Turner
100 years ago. And Houdini had a book, said he could, if he saw the same trick three times, he could figure it out. Vernon did, did it for him five times, he couldn't figure it out. And, uh, so he was known as the man who fooled Houdini, and for over a half a century, he was the best in the world with a deck of cards. And there's different types of magic. There's the big, what we call furniture movers, the big illusionists, and most of those things, those, that type of show, is really money, uh, more than talent. You just have to pay $200,000 to buy this big illusion that turns a cat into a person, you know, inside of a cage or whatever. And then there's the parlor magician with the, the link rings and make eggs come out of their mouth or whatever, something along those lines, where, uh, a smaller audience, but, uh, that's called parlor magic. Then there's the close-up magician, who will do stuff right in front of your eyes. Like, they'll make coins jump from one hand to the other, and, or they'll do card tricks. But the, uh, the most difficult of all forms of sleight-of-hand is the work for the card table, the gambling work. And that work is the most closely guarded information of all sleight-of-hand. Nowadays with the internet, just about everything is exposed. And Vernon, um, wanting to know about more ga- about, more about the moves of the gamblers, first read a book in nine- written in 1902 called Expert at the Card Table by S.W. Erdnase, and nobody's knows who Erdnase was. And the, at that time, the magicians in the 19- teens and '20s, they, "Oh, we don't care about that book. That stuff's too hard to learn." And Vernon had it mastered by the time he was, like, 12 years old.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
And, um, and so he spent his life hunting down hustlers. He's the first one that found Alan Kennedy in 1930, '31, who supposedly could deal cards from the middle of the deck, which no one thought that was possible. And, uh, so that, and that information was the most closely guarded pieces of sleight-of-hand that you can get ahold of if you get ahold of it, and he'd pass it on to just special people like Charlie Miller and a few others. And, uh, he,
- 5:01 – 7:52
How Richard first met Vernon: suits, stunts, and a hustler’s edge
- RTRichard Turner
I met him in 1975. Uh, I'll give, I'll tell you a quick backstory. [laughs] Kind of funny.
- TFTim Ferriss
Oh, it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't have to be quick.
- RTRichard Turner
Okay.
- TFTim Ferriss
Please go ahead.
- RTRichard Turner
I was working with a guy named Bob Yerkes, Y-E-R-K-E-S. He was just at my show on Sunday. He's gonna turn 87 next month. He's been in stunts, he's been in the stunt business for 73 years. His first movie was in 1947 with Elizabeth Taylor, and he's doubled everybody under the sun. Literally thousands of stunts in, on television and thousands of stunts in film. Like in the movie Earthqu- uh, Towering Inferno, or Earthquake, he died seven times in Earthquake.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
No, died a mult- multiple times in Towering Inferno and on and on. He was on the mo- recently with, uh, uh, Tom Hanks on, on Angels & Demons. He was the minister that was being burned alive, and they forgot to turn the fan on to blow him out.
- TFTim Ferriss
Oh. [laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
And Tom Hanks says, "Well, at least you didn't have to act," 'cause he wasn't acting. He was screaming, "Turn the f- I'm, oh, I'm hot!"
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
Anyway, but anyway, so I was working with him. We were training. It was a show called Circus of the Stars, where we trained celebrities to do circus acts, and I was- For better or worse, I'll just call him my, my go- his gopher.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm.
- RTRichard Turner
And, um, but I lived with him, and he's a dear, dear, dear friend for, has been for 50, almost 50 years. And, um, [smacks lips] and so w- we were training, uh, for the Circus of the Stars and, uh, a Lynda Carter show called Wonder Woman. And, uh, I, Dai Vernon heard I could do some very, uh, difficult moves with the cards. I'd just turned 21, and I fou- and I was gonna meet him at the Magic Castle. And I found out the night before I had to have a suit to get into the castle. At that time, I couldn't afford a suit. I didn't have a suit. And so I thought, "Okay." I had my gambling money. I always had a, you know, at, at that time, stacks of 20s, which was a lot of money for me. And, uh, and so I went to the Northridge Shopping Center, set my deck of cards on a coat rack, started thumbing through coats. The sales guy comes up to me and says, "I'll cut you a high card for that coat." And I thought to myself, "This is my lucky day."
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
I said, "Okay, I'll go for that." And he go, and he backs off and said, "No, no, I'm just kidding." And I said, "Tell you what." I took out two twos and a queen. I said, "Come over to your desk here." I moved them around. I said, "If you tell me where that queen is, I'll pay you double for the coat I picked out. If you get it wrong, you give it to me for free." And he goes, "Really?" And I said, "Really." Well, I threw those cards, and darn if he didn't miss it. I said, "Tell you what. I'll bet the coat against a pair of pants, give you a chance to get your coat back." And he goes, "Okay." Lost again. I said, "Tell you what. Coat, pants against a shirt and tie." He said, "Okay, but this is the last one." And, uh, he lost again. So I walked out of there di- with a brand-new suit, didn't pay a dime. And if I would've known he was gonna, uh, go for it, I wouldn't have picked out the cheapest coat in the place. It was a r- tan corduroy piece of crap that I still have today because it's how I first met Vernon.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- 7:52 – 11:00
Tony Giorgio, "won’t get the money," and what real table deception looks like
- RTRichard Turner
And so I still have it as a souvenir. But anyway, so I get to the castle, and, um, and f- uh, he, Vernon, there was two guys in the room, Dai Vernon in the, this was in the library, which was separate-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- RTRichard Turner
... uh, closed off to the, the public. And, uh, and another guy named Tony Giorgio, who's best known as the actor in the movie Godfather. He prayed, played Bruno Tattaglia, which was Vito Corleone's toughest henchman.
- TFTim Ferriss
Ah.
- RTRichard Turner
And there's a scene in the movie where a guy takes a knife and stabs it in his hand on the bar.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- RTRichard Turner
The guy with that knife, that was Tony Giorgio.
- TFTim Ferriss
That's Tony.
- RTRichard Turner
And he was a bust-out man back in the '40s and '50s.
- TFTim Ferriss
What is bust-out man mean?
- RTRichard Turner
A bust-out man is somebody who a casino will have on hand, "Oh, hey, that's Tim Ferriss. He's got some money. Okay, Tony, take him out fast." So a bust-out man means they're gonna take you down. They're gonna take you down quick, get that money from you. Or if it turns out that, "Man, that Tim Ferriss, he was just too lucky. Okay, Joe, you're out of here. Tony, you're in. Get that money back."
- TFTim Ferriss
And getting back-
- RTRichard Turner
Means bust you out fast. That's what a bust-
- TFTim Ferriss
Using card techniques?
- RTRichard Turner
Yeah, using sleight-of-hand, using card techniques, exactly, gambling moves, whatever, whatever his artifice was.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
Pro- probably in his, in that case, a peek with a second deal. And, uh-
- TFTim Ferriss
Say that one more time.
- RTRichard Turner
A peek. In other words, he would peek the top card-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- RTRichard Turner
... would know which top card it is, and then he would deal the card under the top card. So you see that card on top? What's that card?
- TFTim Ferriss
That's five of hearts.
- RTRichard Turner
Okay. And as, as he would deal to the other players, see-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
... that top card is not moving.
- TFTim Ferriss
Hey. [laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
It's, and for the-
- TFTim Ferriss
Right
- RTRichard Turner
... for those that can't see what we're doing, I'm dealing the cards in slow motion. And the top card is not moving as the second card comes out, but it looks as though it's the top. And I can, like, here's even with one hand.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- 11:00 – 12:49
Obsessive practice and inheriting Vernon’s most guarded knowledge
- RTRichard Turner
Exactly. Won't get the money. He, you know, you get a double banger. You get shot twice. And, uh, and so but Vernon, uh, then I showed him the move I just showed you, and that technique, he thought that was kind of clean because it was more natural. And, uh, so I remembered what he said. And, uh, I went home, and I practiced what he said. "I don't care how much you move your hand. Uh, no matter how fine that brief is, it's unnatural action." So naturalness, and that's what I learned from Vernon at Vernon, naturalness. You have to be natural in your execution. And, uh, and so I practiced. And the next time he saw me, he goes, "Now, that's better. That's better." And he took a, and he took a liking to me because he would see that I would put in... I practiced at the time, and this is, I, and it's not an exaggeration, even though I almost wish it was, because I, I, I would practice an average of 14 hours a day. That was my average time practicing. But sometimes it might be only 10 hours because I spent extra time in the gym because I was training for some kind of a fight. Or on other days, I got up at, uh, 6:00 in the morning, went to bed at 3:00, and I might have, may have practiced 20 hours that day. But my average practice time was 20, it was 14 hours. And that was sustained for 26 years, seven da- seven days a week. And Vernon saw this obsession in me, and so he took me on as a pr- uh, well, a student protege. And to cut to the choi- chase, I became the recipient of a century worth of his most guarded card table artifice, the techniques that he traveled the world, uh, finding down these hustlers and learning their moves. And, uh, and he- and I still have things today that only he and I know, and I've created things today that only he and I know, and he's not telling anybody. I think it was, uh, uh, Be- what is it? Benjamin Franklin said, "Three people can have a secret, but you have to kill two of them."
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- 12:49 – 17:26
What makes good practice: perfect practice, dead deck, and eliminating tells
- TFTim Ferriss
So if, uh, if we talk about your practice, because your, your practice and work ethic, it, it struck me when I first saw Dealt, it struck me as I've done homework in preparation for this meeting. [sighs] What makes good practice? Because there are people who practice a lot, they put in a lot of hours, but their skills don't improve or improve much. So what, what makes good practice for you?
- RTRichard Turner
Very, very, very good question, Tim. First of all, I, I say practice does not make perfect. Do they say practice makes perfect? No, practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- RTRichard Turner
You can practice something wrong, when you're done, it's perfectly wrong, and I see it in my industry all the time. They'll practice se- a second deal in some aw- awkward fashion where, uh, by... The most common one is a strike second, and I'll give a visual clue, uh, uh, picture. The card is turned face up on the deck. They'll, they'll hold... First of all, usually they hold the deck in real tight, what's called a mechanic's grip, a real deep grip, and I'll lighten up the grip a little bit. And then, um, when they go to take the card, they'll bypass the card they're taking, and so they can hit the second card and deal it out. And, and that, this Ti- this is the standard second deal that you'll see people do.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
But it has all kinds of tells.
- TFTim Ferriss
It has a lot of tells.
- RTRichard Turner
First of all, you're pushing the top card over to receive it with the other hand. So why is the right thumb bypassing the left thumb? And it's because, so they, it's exposure of the top of the deck where that second card is, to get ahold of it. That is a totally unnatural action, but you'll see it all the time. And then, then, and then you don't have a dead deck. Uh, one of Vernon's students, and who became a peer of Vernon's, was a guy named Char- Charlie Miller, who I had the privilege of spending time with, and they grew up all through the '30s, '40s, '50s, '60s, '70s, '80- '80s. And M- M- Miller talks about a dead deck. When you're dealing the top card, everything below it, there's no movement.
- TFTim Ferriss
Ah.
- RTRichard Turner
And so if there's movement being made when you're taking the second card out and the top card is going back, you don't have a dead deck. You have movement of two different movements. There's second card coming out, the top card going back. Now, watch my second deal. There's the, there's no... I'm not, I'm not crossing the thumbs at all, and my left thumb is, uh, uh... There's no leaking of the card-
- TFTim Ferriss
Right
- RTRichard Turner
... at the other, other corner, and I'm not going anywhere near the top of the deck. And this, um, that particular second deal, I, I have practiced, well, I've done it in front of a live audience about 5 million times, and in practice I've done it over 100 million times, that one move. And I, I proclaim, or s- I say that it's probably the most difficult move in all of sleight-of-hand, because there's only two, three other people that are getting it down, and one guy's been working on it, after he, after he watched my videos, for 30 years now. And, uh, and, but it just takes a long time. But anyway, I get off, off, uh, track. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect ma- practice makes perfect. Same thing with, in the martial arts.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
You know, you saw a side kick. You know, the people, they'll swoop their kick up as they go. You lift it and you shoot it in like a, like a, like a blade.
- TFTim Ferriss
Like a piston.
- RTRichard Turner
You practice it wrong, you sit there practicing it wrong, when you're done it's, it's not wrong, it's perfectly wrong.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah. [laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
Okay, and then, and then there's another thing I, I, I like to say. Um, uh, uh, discipline breeds discipline. Uh, they say, "How do you put in time?" And when I'm telling people when they wanna train or something, I say, "The more you do something, the more you can do of it. Discipline breeds discipline."
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
You do something, and then the more you're able to do it, and the better you do it. And so, and then they say, "Well, I just can't run a marathon." I say, "Don't run a marathon. Right now, I want you to just walk down the distance of two houses and walk back. Make it so easy you can't talk yourself out of it."
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- RTRichard Turner
"The next day, walk the distance of three houses. Come back. Then the next day, jog down the distance and come back. And then eventually, your body starts adapting to the habit, and those endorphins start getting released. And then after a certain period of time, it's like, will you get back in the house? Does it have to be a marathon?"
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
You know? So discipline breeds discipline-
- TFTim Ferriss
I love that
- RTRichard Turner
... and perfect practice makes perfect.
- 17:26 – 41:43
Why training mattered: losing sight, fear of weakness, and early influences
- TFTim Ferriss
So let, let's talk about your physical practice, the training. And I have so many notes here in front of me. Uh, it's an embarrassment of riches, as, uh, s- as, uh, as I have written down here. CBS producer David Rubin, "Turner's life story is too incredible for fiction," and there's, there's a lot to that statement we'll get back to. You mentioned the stunt work. Uh, you've flown on a trapeze, tightrope walks. You have-
- RTRichard Turner
High falls
- TFTim Ferriss
... yeah, high falls. You've done an, uh-
- RTRichard Turner
Cliff diving
- TFTim Ferriss
... you've done an incredible amount of physical cultivation.
- RTRichard Turner
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
And I have, have a line here, "So on March 5th of this year, you will have not missed a workout in 49 years."
- RTRichard Turner
True.
- TFTim Ferriss
All right Why is training important to you? Why would you go to the trouble, as I have down here, in the '70s, there were no gyms when you were on tour, so you traveled with a wooden briefcase with 120 pounds of weights inside. Sounds like a workout in and of itself. Why is it so important to you?
- RTRichard Turner
Um, well, part of it is when I was growing up, I was always the second smallest or second smallest in my class.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
And I would get beat up, or I'd get pushed around. And, um, then we watched, uh... and then w- we haven't really got off on this point yet.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- RTRichard Turner
At nine years old, I started losing my sight.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- RTRichard Turner
My sister, Laurie, uh, who I call my genius sister because she's brilliant, and I, we both got scarlet fever. I was nine, 1963. She was five. And that caused with, for me, within a matter of moments, I'm fourth grade watching this chalkboard, and all of a sudden it just went blurred. It was like someone took the chalk- the chalkboard and smeared the chalk.
- TFTim Ferriss
It was that sudden?
- RTRichard Turner
It was that sudden, and the same thing with my sister. One minute, uh, in the, she went from, from full sight to legally blind. And, um, so now I'm... We, we were forced in second, third, and fourth grade to watch a movie called Lord of the Flies.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm.
- RTRichard Turner
And, and I, to this day, don't know why they made kids watch a horrifying movie like that. And what it was about was a group of kids stranded on an island, and the b- a group of boys, they were all, like, between probably eight to 12 years old, somewhere in that age frame, and there was one boy called Piggy.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
And he was a chubby boy, and he had to wear glasses, and he had asthma. And they found out that they could use his glasses to make a fire. And because he was chubby, they called him Piggy. And so he was picked around, and he had asthma, and then, and when, at 10 years old, I found out that I had asthma. All of a sudden I'm just deathly sick. Because we, we were very poor, our house literally was a structure sat on a ditch, about a six-foot di- foot ditch, and my dad poured concrete down in that ditch to make my bedroom. And during the winter, I'd, my bed would have four, five, six inches of water under it-
- TFTim Ferriss
Wow
- RTRichard Turner
... which means molds, and I was deathly allergic to molds, and I would just get extremely ill. And so I was, now I'm blind, had asthma, and I was skinny. He was chubby. Piggy was blind, asthma, and he was chubby. And so I thought, "I don't wanna be a Piggy. I don't wanna be a coward." And I was afraid I was gonna be a coward because I was afraid, and I was afraid of getting beat up, and I was afraid when I'm walking down the street, a guy named Leland, you know, picks a fight with me and, and, and I get hurt. Doug Ferguson beat me up, and, uh, others. Anyway, so I, I didn't want that. And then there was another show that, uh, affected my, what kind of caused me to go o- off the charts the other direction, was called Lost in Space.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
And there was a little boy on there, Billy Mumy, uh, played Will Robinson, and there was a man on the show, Dr. Smith, who was the man, the coward, hiding behind a rock while this goofy-looking monster made out of papier-mâché would come walking up, and Billy Mummer- Mumy would save the day, the little kid. And I thought, "He's brave," and the, and I was afraid of turning out like Dr. Smith.
- TFTim Ferriss
Hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
And then the, and then the third thing was Tarzan movies, that you'd see them walk across a, a tree go- spanning two cliffs that may be a thou- 100 feet down, 1,000 feet down, and then, uh, there was always the guy that'd turn around and say, "Whatever you do, don't look down." And then there, the next guy would be the coward would look down and, "Aah," go screaming to his death. And I was afraid I'd be that coward that would look down and, and, and panic and fall down. So I started just taking things to the outer limits as far as pushing myself, and I'd, and, and growing up, I had three, three movies on the other side that affected me. One was, uh, Ben-Hur-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- RTRichard Turner
... starring Charlton Huse- Charlton Heston. There's a scene in the movie where he's pulling the oars with his big bulging biceps, and that image of strength wa- you know, made me wanna be stronger. I wanna be strong. I wanna, I wanna be strong like him. Ano- another one was, um, The Green Hornet starring Bruce Lee as, as, uh, Kato.
- 41:43 – 45:54
Anger, rebellion, and the drug years—then a turning point
- TFTim Ferriss
So I, I would love to ask you about, and this is ver- from the very first moment that I saw the documentary, I've, I've wanted to ask you about anger-
- RTRichard Turner
Hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... and rage, because, um, one of my first thoughts, um, upon watching the documentary, which was very emotional for me, to be honest, um, was that any woman who ever dates me should have to watch this movie, because it'll give her a better understanding of how consumed, in a different, for different reasons, but consumed I was by anger. Um, or driven by it, at the very least. How did you, uh, how did you relate to anger, or what purpose did it serve for you then, and, and how do you relate to it now?
- RTRichard Turner
Well-
- TFTim Ferriss
And that's a big question-
- RTRichard Turner
Yeah, it is
- TFTim Ferriss
... so you can break it up into any-
- RTRichard Turner
Segments, yeah. At the time, I, I try to, uh, just describe how I dealt with some of my anger, and that was self-destructive. And I had gotten into other self-destructive behavior, and I, it was the late '60s, beginning '70s, and so for about three years, drugs was a part of that, as an act of rebellion And, um, and, and, and purposely not trying to do my best. The only thing I did worked at, it worked at was cards, and, uh, I would play cards with people, and I would, uh, I would take their money. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
And, uh, and w- and my drug d- my drug-dealing partner named Doug Ferguson, who died from hepatitis from dirty needles.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm.
- RTRichard Turner
And, um, uh, he would have me, he would have me play cards against other drug dealers, uh, to cheat them or trick them out of their money, and that's how we, we supported ourselves, and we, uh, well, we made our money to buy and sell.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- RTRichard Turner
Um, and so that was kind of, uh... I, I, actually, that was kind of a pow- the only power that I had. The rest of the time, I was laughed at. Um, uh, and, and there would be times where we would be doing something drug, and then when I'd come, come out of a stupor, a blur, they'd be laughing at me.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm.
- RTRichard Turner
And, uh, and, and they were just, they were... At first, they were the only people that accepted me 'cause they, you know, I was-
- TFTim Ferriss
This is the drug-dealing crowd?
- RTRichard Turner
The drug, the drug crowd. They accepted... They don't, "We don't care if you can't see, you know. Come on over." And, uh, where the, the s- the regular students were, were more discriminating, uh, towards, uh, some of us in the VH, uh, rooms. And then, uh, and so the drug people, they didn't care. But then when it got right down to it, it was more of, I was more of a tool of, uh, of their, of amusement for them.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
Um, and, and then, then, then I, I, I met a guy, and, uh, and, and now we get off on another little tangent here. You know, there was a, you know, a verse in the Bible said, "God created us in his image," and that always fascinated me, in his image. And so I thought, "Okay, I'm in the image of God. What did God take dirt and made a person? God took, God took dirt and made a eyeball. God, God took dirt and made a brain. God took dirt and made a bird." And, uh, and, and I, I remember watching an episode of, uh, of Kung Fu, and they said, "Who will teach me about the universe?" "The universe will teach you." And I, and I thought, "Well, that's like saying the wall will teach me, but who built the wall? The wall..." You know, who built the Statue of Liberty? There's... It wasn't... The Statue of Liberty didn't build the Statue of Liberty. So then I started thinking, "What, what, what, uh, me in the image of God? Okay, God created a bird. Man took dirt and created a jet."
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm.
- RTRichard Turner
"God took dirt and made eye. We took dirt and made a camera. They're staring at us all over the place."
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm.
- RTRichard Turner
"God took dirt and made a brain. We took dirt and made a computer." What's the, the chip in our ears? It's made of sand, dirt. Just about everything in this room, in one fashion or another, came from dirt.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm.
- RTRichard Turner
And so I thought, "Okay, that means I can create."
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm.
- 45:54 – 1:02:33
Karate under John Murphy: brutal tests, asthma, and relentless preparation
- RTRichard Turner
And so, um, I went another direction. I got heavily into the martial arts, started in 19, uh, March 5th, 1971, and, uh, my karate instructor was a man named John Murphy.
- TFTim Ferriss
May I pause you for one second?
- RTRichard Turner
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
So what precipitated that 90-degree turn or that 180? Was there a conversation or a particular day-
- RTRichard Turner
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... or what catalyzed-
- RTRichard Turner
What, what catalyzed that turn was I was with, um, some friends, and they wanted to watch a movie called Fantastic Voyage, which was a movie about shrinking down a s- a s- a, a, a s- ship, a submarine, and then sending it into a bo- guy's body-
- TFTim Ferriss
Oh, goodness
- RTRichard Turner
... to go into his heart to try to fix it, okay? And they said, "Hey, the Fantastic Voyage is on. Let's get some angel dust and, uh, watch the movie." And then they... And, and so I, I realized, "I gotta stop this." And there was something out there saying, "You need to stop it, or you're gonna end up dead like Billy McComb." And I had a half a dozen, well, a dozen friends who have now OD'd and were dead. And, and I thought, "I, if I don't stop this, I'm gonna be next." And I realized, "I need some help." Anyway, so I went to, I went to these people at this park, Wells Park, and I asked them if they, uh, had any angel dust. They said, "We have something better." I said, "What's that?" They said, "A relation with the Creator of everything you see." I said, "Do you mind if I sit down and tell me what you know?" And they're the ones that told me that we're not here by accident, we're here by design, and that there is a Creator. And so it was at that moment that I said-
- TFTim Ferriss
Wow
- RTRichard Turner
... I was gonna, uh, change my direction.
- TFTim Ferriss
Turn around.
- RTRichard Turner
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
And, and then you mentioned the martial arts.
- RTRichard Turner
Uh-huh.
- TFTim Ferriss
And, uh-
- RTRichard Turner
And that was-
- TFTim Ferriss
... John Murphy.
- RTRichard Turner
That was, that was m- that was... I'm a very... I can... Every moment of my life is like a, a, a video. I can watch and pin in on every, any exact image or moment. That was, uh, February 13th, '71. You know, three weeks later, you know, March 5th, um, my brother, who was seven years younger than me, he was nine, and he was taking karate. And, uh, and I wanted to take karate because I was tired of, I would get, I would get beat up. I, I, I'll get off on a little tangent. I entered another, uh, art competition when I was 11, and I was... I had to have my nose, like, two inches from the canvas as I painted these three vasses, vases with proper shadow, lights coming in. It got first place. These two boys didn't like that this blind kid got first place, and they called me Mr. Magoo. There was a cartoon out at that time-
- TFTim Ferriss
Oh, right
- RTRichard Turner
... starring Jim Backus called Mr. Magoo. It was this kind of this goofy s- sight-impaired person that just went through life jolly, uh, uh, just missing trains and planes, trains, and automobiles, and that was me. And so they would say, they'd flip a bird in front of my face and say, "Hey, Magoo, how many fingers am I holding up?" And while I was distract, distracted, this Friend picked the wallet out of my back pocket, then dangled it in front of my face, said, "Hey, Magoo, got any money?" And when I grabbed for my wallet, he then threw it over my head to his friend behind me in a cruel game of keep away. And they kept, every time I turned around, grabbed it. They'd just keep going back and forth over my head. And then finally, one of them started literally slapping me across the cheeks with my own wall- wallet saying, "Got any money, b- blind boy?" And the other kid jumped on my back, drove me to the ground, kicked me in the ribs, and they ran off laughing saying, "Thanks for the hot dog, Magoo." 'Cause I had $3 in there. For me, $3 was a ma... That was all my entire life savings, card play, and everything all rolled up into three bucks. And so I was so upset about that. And, uh, so that jumps forward to, uh, uh, the martial arts. Is that where we, we- Yeah ... we wanted to head? Yeah. And, um, uh, anyway, so my brother was taking karate, and, uh, so I, I wanted to go down. And they, they gave a warning. "Well, you know, this guy can't see." And, and Murphy, he didn't care if you're blind, deaf, or dumb. This was, this was the- He beat, he beat everyone equally ... the teacher. He was my sensei. Mm-hmm. Sensei John Murphy. He was a year ahead of Chuck Norris. He was, uh, class of '57. Norris's cla- started in '58. And, uh, he opened up, Murphy opened up his school in Tijuana in 1960. And he, uh, was the first white guy, what was called white guy, Caucasian, he was I- uh, I- Irish, to get a black belt in Japan, um, i- in this particular system, Wado Kai, which is a kind of a cross between Shotokan and Taekwondo or, you know, it, it combines hands and feet, where Shotokan, strict Shotokan, which is the number one style, was really basically mainly hands. Anyway, he, um, he said, "We'll, we'll take him. We'll take him." Then, uh, at first he told them, "Don't hurt him." And the gir- uh, at first, and the girls, I'd get beat up by the girls. I'd be, get beat up by the old ladies, ladies that we would... Noelle, who would be their driver, you know, old enough to be my mother. And, uh, it was all I could do to keep from ending up on the, ending up on the floor. And so I realized, "Okay, I gotta, uh, I gotta start, uh, uh, getting better at this." And at that time, I weighed 110 pounds, and I had my full height of 5'9". And Murphy said, "Okay, I want you to start taking, uh, you need to start lifting weights, 'cause you gotta put some meat on those bones." So I started punch and pushing weights, and I went to Gene Fisher's gym. And, uh, Fisher, um, he hel- held the world's record for the curl at that time, 1963, 221 pounds. Uh- [laughs] That's so much weight for a curl. 221 pounds recorded and 226 unrecorded. [laughs] And, and of course, he was in the 200-pound category. Yeah. And so at that time, I weighed 130, uh, well, 130 pounds. I got up to 130 pounds. And at 130 pounds, I could pull down 220, and he would have to pull me down, lock me in, do my reps, lift me back up. I could, uh, I was about 250 on the bench at that time at 130 pounds. And, uh, um, uh, and, and then Murphy would say, uh, uh, push me to the point where I could do 500 pushups in 12 minutes, 9 seconds, which is my record. But it usually is 500 pushups, maybe 15 minutes, which, um, uh, was actually wor- world-class time, the record at the time was- I don't think I could do 500 pushups in 15 days. Yeah. [laughs] I, I, I know that is a bluff on your end. Everybody out there that just listened to Tim say that, Tim is an athlete. Tim is probably just as crazy as I am. Oh. He's being modest right now. I'm just telling you. [laughs] Because he doesn't want to speak for himself, listen to what I'm saying, everybody. [laughs] Tim, I, I felt Tim out when we first got together. Yeah. And, and I mean that in a nice way. Okay. [laughs] I checked those forearms, his forearms. Popeye, I know, jealous. Popeye, you're jealous. Olive Oyl, he's over here. [laughs] So 500 pushups- In 12- Thank you for saying that. Yeah. And, uh, but, but- Yeah ... averages should be 15 minutes Earning, earning the 20 that I said to you earlier before the recording. But, but the world record at the time was nine- 20, 1900 an hour. So I was wor- I was world-class time, uh, you know, 15 in, uh, in one quarter of the time, uh, one-fourth and a quarter of the time, so it was... And then, um, and that's when I'd travel around with that, uh, briefcase with 120 pound, 20 pounds, uh, in dumbbells that would be broken apart, put together on the road, do my exercises, and so on. Anyway, so then Murphy says, uh, "You, okay, you need more weight." And so he said, "Tell, why don't you take vitamins, vitamins every day." So I started taking vitamins. And he said protein powders. So I've, from, for the past 50 years, almost 49 years, every morning I'd throw everything onto the s- I even throw my vitamin tablets in the blend and blend them up with, uh, with, uh, protein powder. And then I came up with the, the best drink for if you wanna... You have two choices: burn up or work out like a madman. And I call it Liquid Hell. All right. And what it is, you take water as your base. Yeah. And then I'd put in Schiff's brewer's yeast, which really is tasty, tastes bad. Yeah. I'd put a half a banana for potassium and three to four to six jalapeno peppers. [laughs] Blend it up. [laughs] And it, it, you had two choices. You either worked out or you just, sweat just started pouring out your head. [laughs] And my, my workout partner, Jim Blowers, who, who you s- probably saw in Dealt, he was the one that was talking about riding on the back of my motorcycle telling me where to go. And, um, he said, uh, when he first started col- college, I, I said, "Okay, you have to have some Liquid Hell." And he, the first time he did it, he threw up in the sink. And I said, "You're not wasting that Liquid Hell. You drink the rest of that." And so he got it down, and it, and, and he couldn't go through a final without having a, his Liquid Hell- [laughs] ... because it stimulated his brain and his body. [laughs] Anyway, so, uh, [laughs] but it's not for sissies, I'll just say that. Anyway, so, uh, that's what I would drink to, uh, to just boost the, the energy level. And, uh, um, anyway, so I, I finally p- uh, put on some weight. And then I remember 19- 80 is when I broke 100, and I broke 160, got up to 160 pounds, and then I kept pressing and I got up to... I, I worked out with, uh, at, um, Jo- Doug McNally, who was Mr. Universe, uh, at his place. And, uh, um, he ha- I got up to 340 on the bench. That's what I topped out at, and I weighed in at 168. And, and today, uh, when I got my first black belt, my first degree black belt, and Murphy wanted the hardest test, uh, and it was considered the hardest test at the time. You had to fight a 10-round bout with a fresh fighter each round, 10 three-minute rounds. And he didn't care, uh, about, he didn't want to deal with lawsuits, so most of the testing and training took place across the border of San Diego and Tijuana.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
And, uh, so that's where his school, he had s-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- RTRichard Turner
... school in, in the States and another main branch in-
- TFTim Ferriss
Quick question for you.
- RTRichard Turner
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
Is it true that you were offered an honorary black belt?
- RTRichard Turner
Yes, because I-
- TFTim Ferriss
And, and you did not accept?
- 1:02:33 – 1:19:11
Visualization as a performance engine: CBS, mental imagery, and strength output
- RTRichard Turner
was 10 two-minute rounds.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- RTRichard Turner
And I managed to, and then I of course on that one, I, oh, I trained like a mad dog, 'cause I wasn't gonna have that, that last experience. So I made that, and then from brown to black was such a jump, it took me another 10 years before I was able to take on the 10 fighters. And just to give you a quick rundown of what my workout looked like to prepare for it, I'd warm up with a four-hour weight workout.
- TFTim Ferriss
Four hour?
- RTRichard Turner
Four hour. And I would start minimum weight all the way up to maximum weight, and I'd do as m- now when you get to the maximum, I'd do wei- lift as many times as I could with a few seconds, uh, as many times as I could, then I'd slowly up just five pounds at a time from 300, from three, about 300 pounds, 395, uh, down to 295, 290, all the way down to, uh, where I had just the bar, which was a 45-pound bar. And, uh, and then that, and then I'd do that with every muscle group. And then I would do 500 kicks on the heavy bag. You know, 10, uh, 10 roundhouse kicks with this thing, 10 with this one, 10, 10, do 100 of that. Then I'd do 10 side kick with this leg, 10 side kick with this leg, 10 side, another 100, 10 back turning kicks, 10 side, whatever. I would step up cross side kick.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- RTRichard Turner
But just did five different kicks 500 times. Then my, uh, trainer, he would have a, well, it looked like a motorcycle seat, but it was a bag, and he would hold it, and, uh, and with his hand, and then I would have to do 100 kicks in three minutes. And so simulating the three rounds, so I would just bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, punch, kick, punch, kick. Mainly kicking, 'cause that, uh, that ex- that exhausts your oxygen supply faster than punching. That's why in kickboxing matches, you, they're required to throw a minimum of, of, of, I think six kicks or eight kicks. And that's because after you start getting tired, you just wanna punch. Takes a fraction of the oxygen just to take to lift these big muscles up in the air. And so I'd do that, and I'd take a, first I'd take a twen- 10-second break, do another 100, take another 10, 20-second break, 100. I'd do 1,000. I'd do it 10 times, it'd be another 1,000 kicks. From there, I would do a five-mile run, and I lived in San Diego, and those hill, they had big hills there. And I would r- one of the hills was a mile and a half down, a mile and a half back up, and when I got to the top, I would sprint the distance of a house, and then run the distance, sprint, run, sprint. And then I would do 10, uh, quarter-mile wind sprints, and then I'd throw up. And then I'd go do my show, then I'd go perform. I'd perform at night. And then every other day, I would go rounds. You know, Murphy Douglas would have me, uh, go, you know, two, uh, uh, five rounds, you know, five rounds, building up to it. And sometimes two on one, 'cause you don't have time to, to rest at that. And but that's, that was, uh, and I, I sustained that particular w- uh, discipline for eight months, and Douglas said I overtrained, you know, I went too long. But my problem was asthma. 'Cause, uh, you know, uh, uh, being asthmatic, uh, you know, if I, uh, uh, sometimes fear can trigger an asthma attack, and that's what happened on that green belt that I described. Uh, you know, and you can't fight if you can't breathe. And so I had to train my mind to not become afraid. You know, fear can paralyze. You know, we can be so worried about doing the wrong thing that we do nothing.
- TFTim Ferriss
Hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
There's actually an English proverb that says, "A man that's afraid to make a mistake is unlikely to make anything." In other words, totally worthless. Fire the bum.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
Fear of failure, when left unchecked, can actually lead to the failure we fear.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah, yeah.
- RTRichard Turner
And so, um, I, I just started, like I said, putting myself in con- positions and conditions to help my mind overcome those effects. And I did things, uh, we just talked about the physical. I did mental things, like [laughs] eating live cockroaches, live grasshoppers.
- TFTim Ferriss
Oof. [laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
Um, uh, the most absurd things, rotten fish guts that sat in the sun for a week to, uh... In Dealt, you'll s- you saw the, where I ate the, I chomped down on the eyeball of the mahi-mahi. And the thing is, if you don't have, if you, if you can't take it, you'll, the person would throw up.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- RTRichard Turner
And some people that were watching almost threw up.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
One, on one of, when I did the guts, they did throw up. Um-
- TFTim Ferriss
Don't try this at home, kids.
- RTRichard Turner
Don't try this at home. But it was-
- TFTim Ferriss
This is a closed track with a trained professional.
- RTRichard Turner
Yeah. It w- but it, it was just to train my mind to be able to take whatever is being dished out.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- RTRichard Turner
And if I can control my mind and body, then I, I can make it. And, and, and that triggers another thought real quick. I'm gonna, uh, go back to the Charles Bonnet Syndrome, Charles Bonnet.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- RTRichard Turner
And how, how that can create strength. One of the ways I use it the most, and that we haven't even mentioned, is in training As what I, um, I can do tremendous numbers of reps. When I took my fourth degree black belt test, I was in my late for- I was 47 or 48. I lifted 222,888 pounds using 3,190 reps, and the 24-year-old 220 pound black belt who trained alongside me could not do 50% of the number of reps or weight, and that's because I don't get ac- lactic acid buildup because I would combine the mind with the body. Now, you'll see weight, people do this, they'll say, " [grunting] Come on, move it. [growling] " You know, they're trying to convince their body to do it. You follow what I'm saying? Yeah. When you combine mind and body together, they're not doing that. And what I would do is when I'd get to the point of exertion, and I would then ch- transfer, I'd use my V- CBS. I, like on a, on a, on a bench press. I would see a cable, or a, a, on the bench press, I'd see a cable going up, across of it, across two pulleys. On the other end is this Grilla-shaped thing, or an Arnold Schwarzenegger and Grilla together, pulling on that thing, pulling that weight up, and I would focus on that image, pulling the weight up, and during that moment, I would no longer feel the stress as my muscles continue to press. Hm. And I have exercises for every, I have a mental visually, uh, exercise I'll use for, uh, uh, each exercise. Like, the quadricep extension. You know, you're, you're in exertion when you're straightening your legs, right? Mm-hmm. Right. And so what I would see in front of me is a big giant rubber band. When the band is stretched down, when the, when the weights are down, and then it would, the, it would, when the, it, it would, the rubber band would go up and it would just go wide, and that's when it's pulling the weight up. So I'd watch it and I would see it pulling the weight up. So when I'm doing the exertion is when I'd feel it the least. Or another image, like when I'm doing a, a hammer, like I'm laying on my back doing a tricep, I would see a hammer falling. Okay? And when the hammer's falling, it's the least amount of effort, right? Yeah. 'Cause the hammer, the weight of the hammer's going down, but when I'm like this. So I'd see the hammer falling and, but that's, that's when the tricep is being engaged. Yeah. And I taught my wife, I, uh, when I taught my wife this, and, and within a month's time, she... What she would do, I'd say, "Well, look at yourself in the mirror, your reflection, and when you get to the exertion, like, exam, like a bench, uh, uh, military press." Yeah. At the point of exertion, so you're at, you wanna do, we'd always do sets of 52 reps. And when you get to, uh, 48, w- then transfer that, seeing that image of that reflection pulling those weights up. And then, and she got to the point where she increased her muscular endurance 30% in a month time, and she was already in top shape. Oh, so, really- And, and, in fact, now I could give you an example of that if you, if we were standing, if you wanted to stand up. Mm-hmm. Um, but I would like, I, and of course, now I'm s- almost 66, so I don't know if I... I, I used to have a, a s- a demonstration that I would do where I would bend the arm of the person, and I just not, there's only one person's arm I was not able to bend in doing, doing this demonstration for 40 years, and no one has ever bent my arm. But if you wanna stand up, I can, uh... I don't know if this is- Sure. Let's try it. But I'm not gonna try to bend your arm because I'm, because of surgery. I'll- Just get on this side of me. All right. And see, you, th- look at those muscles. [laughs] Oh. Now, and now usually I put myself up a- against a back so I'm pinned in. Mm-hmm. Now I'm gonna have you put your ha- arm right here. Okay. Your other arm here. Yeah. Okay? Not, not on the wrist, I want it, the wrist. And, and your job, your, your, this is what you, all you're gonna do- Okay ... is just bend this little elbow here. All right. Okay? Yeah. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. And look, I'm not, I'm not using- Yes. Go. Come on, come on. It's not gonna happen. I'm not, and I'm not doing any, I'm not using any strength at all. Look at my arm. Yeah, yeah. Totally relaxed. Yeah. Now I'll tell you how I did it. Okay. It's, it's, once again, it's creating mind and body together. What I did is I envisioned my arm as a fire hose. Yeah. Shooting out that fire hose is 1,000 gallons of water a minute. Yeah. You can't bend a fire hose, I'm sorry. Yeah. Right? If you're to think about a fire hose when the fire's- Yeah ... when the w- water, water's shooting, you're not gonna bend a fire hose. So I get that image in my mind, I'm just shooting that fire hose. And, uh, and I've never had anyone ever bend my arm. And yet, you know, without that, until I showed them, they could, they learn how to do that, then they can bend their arm. But before... But anyway, that's just kind of a little side, side note about how I've used my CBS- Yeah ... to, uh, create a lot of strength. And, uh, I also used it in my training with the cards. Hm. When I would train, when I, when I analyze moves and break them down. And, and what I would do, I, I'm, I'm just kind of transitioning [laughs] into- Yeah ... something else here randomly. But what I would do, and why I was able to put in so many hours, is I would analyze the move. Say, okay, I want to, I want to second deal a certain way. So I'd analyze the move. Okay. Okay, I want the, I want the, I want no leaking. And so I'd analyze what I wanna do, and I'd practice it in slow motion till every exacting element of the muscle memory was firmly embedded in my brain. Okay, then I would turn it into a subconscious habit. We all have, uh, habits where we're tapping the pen, right? Yeah. Tapping our feet. That's idle energy wasted. It's like the, an engine of a car running, going nowhere. Idling. Just idling. That's s- still energy expelled, right? So what I did is I turned, I learned to take all that energy and funnel it into just my hands and what's in my hands. And so that's why I would, I would take it and I'd turn it into a subconscious habit. And that move, I would then sit there and practice it th- hundreds of times. Uh, I'd do it, uh, thousands of times, tens of thousands of times, hundreds of thousands of times. Then maybe two or three years later, I'll look down and go, go, "By golly, I got it." And then, and then, and some of the things Vernon would say, "That's not possible to do." And, and, and, and so I would figure it out, analyze it, and show it to him. And then, and then he'd go, "I don't understand how you can do that." [laughs] Well, what I loved-
- TFTim Ferriss
Discovering in the process of prepping for this conversation, and I wanna put a button in the black belt test in a second, but that Vernon would describe to you the ideal of how something would be performed even though, uh, in reality, he hadn't seen it executed that perfectly. And you, with your powers of visualization and the way that you would digest his teaching, would then go and develop the ability to do what he thought could not be done. At least, that's, that's my understanding.
- RTRichard Turner
That's exactly right. And, and he did that for, I had the privilege of being with Professor Vernon for 17 years, and those first five to six, 10 years, like you said, he would describe to me. He'd say, "Richard, this is the way it has, this has to be done. Your hands have to be natural. You don't want this deep grip when you're going to deal a second or a bottom. Your fingers need to be on the sides because it's more natural. That's more the way you're gonna see a gen- uh, your, your general per- person in the public hold a deck of cards. And so, you don't wanna create any unnatural suspicion by your actions." And so, he would tell me, "Okay, you have to be able to do it with those fingers on the side." And so, okay, fingers on the side. "And you don't want, you don't want, uh, any of this action here." So, so I'd practice with my hand on the table, uh, without moving it. And so, I would take the pieces what he said, and I would practice it. And he, he would actually tell me, he'd say, he would say, "Feel my hands. Feel the position my hands are in." I would feel his hands. Okay, got it, got it. Okay. Oh, okay, I got it. So I'd see the picture in my mind of what his hands were showing me, but he never did it because he, it's an action. I really couldn't see him do the action because then my hands would get in the way of him executing the action.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- 1:19:11 – 1:24:22
Dreaming, perception quirks, and the sensory rules of Richard’s inner world
- TFTim Ferriss
And so, that begets the question, what is dreaming like for you?
- RTRichard Turner
Ah, very good, very good question. Uh, 'cause, you know, like, uh, like you were saying, I see my subconscious in external space. So, um, you know, and it's just a constant, uh, s- stagnant situation of all these colors, patterns, just there-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- RTRichard Turner
... until I wanna bring them into play. And it doesn't matter if it's day, night, if my eyes are open or closed, I see the exact same thing.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm.
- RTRichard Turner
With my eyes, uh, covered up in a vault, uh, I'll see these vivid, bright colors when there's absolutely no way of light getting in.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
Now, when I dream, in my dreams, I'm never sight impaired, and I see, I dream in full color with audio and visual, and I see perfectly. And everybody I see in those dreams is perfectly clear.
- TFTim Ferriss
Hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
Which I, you know, uh, that, that, uh, someone brought that to my attention in some questions that I was asking, and, uh, and I thought, "Well, I, I guess that's kind of unusual." But yeah, I'm ne- uh, uh, I'm never, like I said, part of the dream is never that I'm part, uh, sight impaired, nor do I see any of the CBS-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- RTRichard Turner
... the se- uh, symptoms in any of my dreams.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
Now, if I wake up in the middle of the night, say, um, and I had to take some Tylenol or something f- uh, from some surgery, I've had 24 surgeries from all my high impact living, and, um, medication, when I wake up, will turn everything into a metallic colors, and usually, a lot of times, it's purple.
- TFTim Ferriss
This is if you wake up in the middle of the night?
- RTRichard Turner
Mi- middle of the night on, after taking some kind of medication from some kind of a, an injury that I'm, uh, on. Medications turn it metallic, and it turns it, uh, usually a purple, which is not, it's not a pretty purple to me. Uh, I don't like it.
- TFTim Ferriss
You mentioned maroon was one of your favorite colors.
- RTRichard Turner
Mm-hmm. And then royal blue on the blue spectrum.
- TFTim Ferriss
What other favorite colors do you have? And did you have them before losing your sight, or did you develop them afterwards?
- RTRichard Turner
Uh, I probably wasn't aware of, of favorite colors before-
- TFTim Ferriss
Right
- RTRichard Turner
... um, so much as I am now, because I see them all the time, and, and the, the different shades depending on the time of year, depending on the particular day. Uh, sometimes it's just really vivid blues, and I just, it's just beautiful sometimes when I'm w- out walking with my beautiful wife, Kim, and, uh, I, my, my CBS will create a skyline, okay? In other words, the things will be darker here, and then like the, that's the skyline, and then it'd be lighter, uh, shades-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- RTRichard Turner
... to cr- give the image of, uh, you know, earth, s- s- sky, okay? And then, and then I go in, and I have to ask my wife, "Is it still light out?" 'Cause it, it, uh, it will stay there, and sometimes it's late into the night, and I can't get that, the, I can't get rid of it. Sometimes it does, can bother me, because I want that to go down, because it's now nighttime. Um, so there are, there are some, uh, times that it will be a bit of a distracting sign.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm. W- what, uh, I have as a note to ask, I didn't want to get any of the details beforehand, but a note to ask you about your experience of wind.
- RTRichard Turner
Ah, that's a fi- I, I can see the wind blow. Whenever I'm walking down the street with my, with, with Kim or whatever, if the, I w- of course, I automatically see the, the images of, of trees, but they're more like clouds, and they, and they'll be green shapes and, uh, colors to, to replicate, give the image of, of trees. Okay. But whenever the wind blows, everything, all my, all my visualization things that I see will go with that wind. They will gust. If it gusts, they'll move a little bit more. I, if I do this, everything just now just went, "Oop."
- TFTim Ferriss
If you tap the si-
- RTRichard Turner
It jerked. If I tap my side, side of the head, do, it, everything just jerked over and went back straight. Just weird little things. Like when I go in, and I, I'm in a pool. My eyes are closed the whole time, 'cause I know I, I don't have need to, need, need my eyes open when I'm swimming. I don't have to worry about the chlorine and stuff.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- RTRichard Turner
And so when I'm above the pool, there, there's a sh- a certain hue. Le- in other words, a, a, a level of brightness of a color. When I go under the water, I actually see myself going underwater, and the hue changes. The, it deepens, like putting on sunglasses.
- 1:24:22 – 1:28:20
Adventure over relaxation: injuries, surgeries, and reframing obstacles
- TFTim Ferriss
Uh, so I'm just following my own interest. And I wanna talk about, um, the enjoyment of not relaxing. That's more said, uh, with a smile, but when we took a little break to have some water, uh, you said, "To me, relaxing is not relaxing." And you talked about how being, being told to relax or asked to relax is like being punished and put in the corner for misbehaving at school, uh, for you. In that case, given your obsessive compulsive dedication to training, to card mechanics, to, uh, movement, how do you replenish? H- what, what activities do you find recharge your batteries? And maybe you could just elaborate on, "To me, relaxing is not relaxing."
- RTRichard Turner
Okay. Yeah. Uh, and I'm gonna bring up a friend of mine who's like a brother. His name is Luke Korem.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
He was the director of the film Dealt that you mentioned.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
And, and I'll just say something quick about the film.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
If it wasn't for Luke, in particular, probably I'd say 80% Luke, and then Bradley and Russell, the producer and the writer, but Luke was the one that just had the creativity. If, if I, if they would've let, if they would've listened to me, and they listened zero to me-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
... they did, uh, that, I would've screwed up the film.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
The, the brilliance of that film is I, I lay it at the feet of the director, Luke. And he would tell me, and he actually lived with me. He had his own place in my house when, at, at certain times, Luke's Room. And I'd never have, my, many times I didn't know if the camera was on or off. And he would say, "Well, let's chill," you know, and, uh, you know, which I found out is a word for relaxing. And chill? I don't wanna chill.
- TFTim Ferriss
What, what is this chill? [laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
It's not fun. And I said, "Relaxing? For me, relaxing is not fun. Relaxing is like when I was a kid and I was being punished, and my, my parents, as a punishment, I'd have to stand in the corner for an hour and just stare at the corner. To me, chilling is not fun. Chilling, relaxing is not fun. To me, relaxing is adventure." And I, I would tell people and I, and I'd tell Luke, I'd say, "Don't worry about the end result. When the film is done, it's gonna be a piece, it'll be what it is, and it will be finished. Enjoy the journey." Okay? You, and look at every obstacle, and every challenge, and every hurt and pain that you come across as part of the adventure of the journey. When you read a book, you don't want a book that, oh, he went and he entered this, uh, race and he won, and then he entered that one, no trouble he won, and he climbed this mountain and he won. Uh, y- that's boring.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- RTRichard Turner
You have to have antagonist, protagonist, and you have to have challenges, you have to have things that you have to overcome. So I would tell people, whatever the situation is, look at it as part of the adventure. I, uh, my livelihood w- almost came to an end five years ago. Well, multiple times. Like I said, I've had 24 surgeries. I had to recount them just last week, going, "Well, am I at 23, or 22, 23 or 24?" I realized I've had, I have two steel knees from all the years kicking. I took a shot here, roundhouse kick here, and at first I did surgery and finally had to be replaced. And just, you know, millions of kicks just finally did 'em in. I've had five hernia surgeries. I've had, I did a back flip off my front porch, landed on my fifth disc on my ba- on my back on the brick, drove it out my belly button. I've had three back surgeries. And uh, and then fortunately, what finally, and they, and that's so complicated, they just, doctors, it's just they have a hard time with backs. And then I, they have this thing called a neurostimulator that Medtronic makes, and I have that, and it short-circuits the pain from the back to your brain. Amazing. Ever since that, like my wife said, gave our life back.
- 1:28:20 – 1:37:16
Card-table demonstrations: wild cards, Hold’em, Stud, and "not a move was honest"
- TFTim Ferriss
We have, we have this table available. We have some cards. Uh, would you like to, like to show anything?
- RTRichard Turner
Sure.
- TFTim Ferriss
Or do anything?
- RTRichard Turner
Oh, yeah. Uh, you have a deck of cards there for yourself, right?
- TFTim Ferriss
I do.
- RTRichard Turner
Shuffle 'em up.
- TFTim Ferriss
All right. We'll see this, how, how amateur this shuffle can be here.
- RTRichard Turner
Yeah, you just do what you do.
- TFTim Ferriss
I can barely shuffle with two hands.
- RTRichard Turner
Well, then use one.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah. [laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
I just showed you how.
- TFTim Ferriss
All right.
- RTRichard Turner
Okay.
- TFTim Ferriss
All right, we're good to go.
- RTRichard Turner
Switch decks with me.
- TFTim Ferriss
All right.
- RTRichard Turner
Okay.
- TFTim Ferriss
Here you go.
- RTRichard Turner
Now, in poker, you've heard of, like, w- wild cards, like deuces are wild.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
Uh, baseball have multiple wild cards.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yes.
- RTRichard Turner
Other games. So just cut a card, that'll be the wild card. Just cut off half the deck.
- TFTim Ferriss
I'm gonna move. There's one card left over here.
- RTRichard Turner
Oh, will you put-
- TFTim Ferriss
I can-
- RTRichard Turner
Please put it-
- TFTim Ferriss
Put it on my deck?
- RTRichard Turner
Yes. Where, put it there
- 1:37:16 – 1:41:20
Behind the scenes of great cards: analyzing manufacturing quality for USPCC
- TFTim Ferriss
Roughly, roughly 52 in there, I suppose. All right Oh, wonderful. So you, now you, uh, just, just because this was mentioned before we started recording, you, uh, audit cards. Is that right?
- RTRichard Turner
Well, uh, well, I'm, uh-
- TFTim Ferriss
Or, yeah, what's the right term?
- RTRichard Turner
Analyze.
- TFTim Ferriss
Analyze.
- RTRichard Turner
I, I, I, yeah, I, uh, US Playing Card Company is the largest, uh, maker of cards in the United States.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
And, uh, they just merged with, uh, Cartamundi, which is the biggest card maker. They've been, started making cards 18- 1765, and US Playing Card Company since 18... They've been around for s- for, for 150 years.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
And Bicycle is the most recognized pack of cards in the world.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
And has been for over 100 years. And in 1990, uh, 1988, I got some cards. They were so bad. I told them, "These are not the cards you've been making. I can prove, prove that you are subcontracting your paper out, blah, blah, blah." Anyway, they sent a rep. I proved to him, and they said he was been proven right. Then in 1993, they started miscutting their cards. I turned the things over, I said, "These are not the cards you've been making for 100 years. I can prove it." And the, at that time, they were getting flack from the casinos, 'cause their cards, the casinos were not, not, uh, happy with the cards. There was something wrong with them. And I'm the one that identified the problem, and, uh, and that was the blade was going through the wrong side of the card, which affected the integrity of the card and the, the ability for it to, to, to properly be, be handled properly. And, uh, so then they finally put me on retainer in the 1990s, and, uh, they, I helped them make the best card in the world, and they do make the best cards in the world. And, and, uh, just to give you an idea how far, uh, the, their director of research and development would push me, he would send me out, okay, usually it was two dozen decks, or, like, 20 decks.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- RTRichard Turner
But I'll make it real small so you can understand. We'll say six decks.
- TFTim Ferriss
Okay.
- RTRichard Turner
So there's, w- it would, it would be, if it was two dozen, it'd be, there would be 12 pairs.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
Okay? 12 pairs. So w- w- w- w- we would just small, reduce our, our illustration to down to six pa- six decks. There's three pairs, and one of the decks-
- TFTim Ferriss
Three pairs of decks
- RTRichard Turner
... Three, three, three pairs, yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- RTRichard Turner
Six cards. Six decks-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- RTRichard Turner
... which is three pairs.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- RTRichard Turner
Okay, so we're down to six decks, which would be three pairs. And then when I say pairs, um, each, the, the, the, each pair was ran together. That was a particular run of that deck.
- TFTim Ferriss
Okay.
- RTRichard Turner
Okay? And so they would, they would say, "One of the decks, they just changed one of the chemicals in the coating." This was probably the, the most elaborate one that I did.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- RTRichard Turner
Just one of the chemicals was changed, not the whole chemical, not the whole process. One of the chemicals was changed in their coating. And so not only did I have to say, uh, "Deck one and three are a match. Two and four are a match, and five and six are a match."
- 1:41:20 – 1:57:45
Closing stories: a crushed thumb, Penn & Teller, and earning "that’ll get the money"
- TFTim Ferriss
Very, very close by. Um, I'm, I'm curious to know, and this, uh, this, this is sometimes a difficult question, but, um, I'll just, I'll ask one or two more questions. Um, if you could put a message, a quote, anything non-commercial on a billboard to get a message out to millions or billions of people, is there, is there anything that comes to mind that you might put on that billboard?
- RTRichard Turner
Yeah. In the Unit- in America, we have opportunities. Success depends upon the use we make of those opportunities.
- TFTim Ferriss
Hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
That would be one. Another would, would be, not going down.
- TFTim Ferriss
Not going down.
- RTRichard Turner
Not going down.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- RTRichard Turner
Another one would be, um, consider every obstacle, as I mentioned, every obstacle, challenge, hurt, pain in your life as part of the adventure of life. That's what give li- gives life spice.
- TFTim Ferriss
Hmm.
- RTRichard Turner
You know, we, uh... Oh, and then, and circling back to, um, when I was talking about the surgeries-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- RTRichard Turner
... and how my career was almost at an end, I was at Penn and Teller's theater. I was gonna be on their show, uh, their fourth season, and, third season, and I was in the gym, the real gym, where else, with my friend Doug Gorman. And, uh, I said, "Okay, I paid $17 for my workout." Uh, that's a ridiculous workout price. And so I was, I, as soon as I got in there, one of those benches that you set them up, upright, upright like this to, like you're doing standing curls.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- RTRichard Turner
Or, you know, your sitting curls, or you can recline it back for, like, tri- you know, triceps, or lay it all the way back, like if you wanna do sit-ups on there.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- RTRichard Turner
Or, or-
- TFTim Ferriss
Adjustable bench
- RTRichard Turner
... dumbbell, yeah, adjustable bench. And it was propped like this.
- TFTim Ferriss
At about a 45 degree.
- RTRichard Turner
At a, yeah, a 45 degree angle, and I couldn't, I pulled that thing, I couldn't get it to go down. And I felt up, it s- it was butted up against the wall.
- TFTim Ferriss
Huh.
- RTRichard Turner
And so I took that bench and I moved it over like this, and wham! My thumb was here, and, and it was, you know, those commercial-grade-
- TFTim Ferriss
Oh, God
- RTRichard Turner
... benches. The steel bars that went right around here, and the steel bars that, that was the frame of the bench just came down and crushed my thumb. What did I do? I know he's crazy, and you're, people that are listening and watching are saying, "Yeah, he's a little on the crazy side." And, oh, okay, don't let me get off track on here, but did you know I'm a cert- I'm, I'm a certified oddball?
- TFTim Ferriss
A certified oddball.
- RTRichard Turner
I am certified.
- TFTim Ferriss
I d- I did see your card.
- RTRichard Turner
Yeah, yeah. Well, well, I, I explain. You've heard of Ripley's Believe It or Not, right?
- TFTim Ferriss
Yes.
- RTRichard Turner
Uh, in 1984, I was on a TV series, Ripley's Believe It or Not, hosted by Jack Palance. I'm also an exhibit in the second-largest Ripley's in the country, and I'm in the 2015 issue of Ripley's Believe It or Not Book of Eye-Popping Oddities.
Episode duration: 1:58:06
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Transcript of episode JuDn9QoDjz0
