The Incredible Kyle Maynard — Fear{less} with Tim Ferriss

1. 0:00 – 0:01

   Intro

   1. TFTim Ferriss0:00

      [instrumental music]

2. 0:01 – 2:42

   Fear{less} setup and Kyle Maynard’s introduction

   1. TFTim Ferriss0:01

      I'm Tim Ferriss, author, entrepreneur, angel investor, and now, TV host. I've spent my entire adult life asking questions, then scouring the globe to find the answers. On this show, I'll share the secrets of pioneers who have faced their own fears. We'll dig into the hard times, big mistakes, tough decisions, and how they got through it all. The goal isn't to be fearless. The goal is to learn to fear less. [clapping] Welcome to Fearless. I'm your host, Tim Ferriss, and on this stage we'll be deconstructing world-class performers of all types to uncover the specific tactics they've used to overcome doubt, tackle hard decisions, and ultimately succeed on their own terms. My guest tonight is a member of the National Wrestling Hall of Fame, New York Times best-selling author, and has summited Mount Kilimanjaro, among others. He inspires audiences around the world with his message, and he conquers challenges with his own unique style. Please welcome to the stage athlete, author, and mountaineer, Kyle Maynard. [clapping]

   2. KMKyle Maynard1:12

      Thanks.

   3. TFTim Ferriss1:14

      What's up? [clapping]

   4. KMKyle Maynard1:15

      [laughs] Do a little around the world. What's up, everybody? [laughs]

   5. TFTim Ferriss1:20

      How's it going, boom. [laughs]

   6. KMKyle Maynard1:29

      You want to do it, man?

   7. TFTim Ferriss1:30

      Awesome, man.

   8. KMKyle Maynard1:31

      Thank you.

   9. TFTim Ferriss1:31

      Happy to have you here, man. All right. You guys ready to get the show started?

   10. SPSpeaker1:41

       Yes.

   11. KMKyle Maynard1:41

       [laughs]

   12. SPSpeaker1:42

       Whoo. [clapping]

   13. TFTim Ferriss1:42

       All right.

   14. KMKyle Maynard1:43

       [laughs]

   15. TFTim Ferriss1:51

       It's so nice to see you, man.

   16. KMKyle Maynard1:52

       You too, man.

   17. TFTim Ferriss1:53

       It's been fi-

   18. KMKyle Maynard1:53

       Nice to see you

   19. TFTim Ferriss1:53

       ... been five years. We met a while back up in Napa, had quite the adventure.

   20. KMKyle Maynard1:59

       It was. I don't remember most of it, but-

   21. TFTim Ferriss2:01

       Yeah. [laughs]

   22. KMKyle Maynard2:03

       [laughs]

   23. TFTim Ferriss2:03

       But I do remember, in the sort of flashes of consciousness-

   24. KMKyle Maynard2:07

       [laughs]

   25. TFTim Ferriss2:07

       ... in between too much wine, everyone being really, really impressed and inspired by you there. I mean, it was just, it was such a wonder to behold your effect on people.

   26. KMKyle Maynard2:19

       Like, how could that guy be so drunk and still stay in his wheelchair? I was like-

   27. TFTim Ferriss2:22

       I was like, how does he remember-

   28. KMKyle Maynard2:24

       [laughs]

   29. TFTim Ferriss2:24

       ... these one-liners-

   30. KMKyle Maynard2:25

       Right
3. 2:42 – 3:46

   Starting with struggle: early wrestling losses and emotional toll

   1. SPSpeaker2:42

      Every weekend we'd go to the tournament, and he would, uh, he would get beat. He would lose, and we'd go, and we'd get up at, you know, 6:00 in the morning and drive across the, the, the town, uh, and go wrestle. And he would get beat, and then I would drive home with him crying, because, uh, that emotional side of the, of the sport, you know, that's, you know, that, that's what was, that was happening that I didn't want to have happen.

   2. TFTim Ferriss3:10

      All right. Tell us about your first wrestling season.

   3. KMKyle Maynard3:13

      [laughs]

   4. TFTim Ferriss3:13

      Then we're gonna back into all the rest, but as a former wrestler-

   5. KMKyle Maynard3:16

      [laughs]

   6. TFTim Ferriss3:16

      ... I like talking about wrestling, so let's start there.

   7. KMKyle Maynard3:18

      Oh, yeah, we could geek out on that.

   8. TFTim Ferriss3:19

      [laughs]

   9. KMKyle Maynard3:20

      I, um, yeah, I was... I mean, it's a short story. I was terrible. I mean, it was like b- basically, people were almost saying it was borderline child abuse that my mom and dad were having me do this, you know? It was, um, it was just crazy. And I think the craziest part of it, too, is if, if my dad were sitting here with us, and he'd been a wrestler, and he'd kind of been the one to encourage me to go and do it, if he were being honest with us, he would say that he didn't think that I would ever have won a match.

4. 3:46 – 4:07

   From winless beginnings to a standout senior season

   1. TFTim Ferriss3:46

      What was your record like the first season?

   2. KMKyle Maynard3:48

      I lost every match that first season and halfway through my second season, so I hadn't, still hadn't won a match.

   3. TFTim Ferriss3:53

      What was your last season like?

   4. KMKyle Maynard3:54

      So senior year of high school, had, uh, won 36 varsity matches, beat the state champ from Alabama, Louisiana, went to the nationals, and placed one match from being a high school All-American.

   5. TFTim Ferriss4:05

      So. [laughs]

   6. KMKyle Maynard4:06

      Right. [clapping]

5. 4:07 – 6:28

   Congenital amputation, childhood environment, and expectations

   1. TFTim Ferriss4:07

      All right. So yeah, I, it was tremendous. Uh, and we, we are gonna dig into a lot of the wrinkles of that, so I don't wanna jump too far ahead, but can you explain for people what congenital amputation is?

   2. KMKyle Maynard4:23

      Yeah. Honestly, I have no idea. Like, really, doctors don't know.

   3. TFTim Ferriss4:26

      Yeah.

   4. KMKyle Maynard4:26

      Um, I'm not even joking when I say that, but, like, when I was born, there was no known cause. And, um, you know, my mom and dad, they were young, they were in their early 20s, and, and really they kind of thankfully stopped looking for an answer.

   5. TFTim Ferriss4:38

      Mm-hmm.

   6. KMKyle Maynard4:38

      They, maybe there's some genetic link, but they don't know.

   7. TFTim Ferriss4:40

      Mm-hmm. Where did you grow up? What was your child- How would you describe your childhood? And in, in-

   8. KMKyle Maynard4:45

      Yeah

   9. TFTim Ferriss4:45

      ... the sort of ear- in the, in the early days

   10. KMKyle Maynard4:46

       In the early days. So I was born at, uh, Walter Reed Army Medical. It, so it's where so many of our, like, veterans that have gone through an amputation have come back to do their rehabilitation, which is crazy that... I mean, just, it, there was no other reason. They had no idea that I was gonna be born an amputee.

   11. TFTim Ferriss5:00

       Yeah.

   12. KMKyle Maynard5:00

       Like, no idea at all. The ultrasounds appeared normal. Um, so it was a big surprise at first. And, um, you know, I say my mom and dad kind of pulled the ultimate, my mom especially, at least, like, this Jedi mind trick where it was like, "You're not disabled." And I'm like, "Cool, I'm not disabled." You know, it was like this kind of attitude of normalcy.

   13. TFTim Ferriss5:17

       Yeah.

   14. KMKyle Maynard5:18

       And I think that they saw that if they could s- if they saw me as normal, then I would see myself that way.

   15. TFTim Ferriss5:22

       Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, it's- [clapping] I think we'll talk a lot more about this, but I mean, you definitely, child or adult, you sort of conform to the expectations of the people around you, right? So if, if your parents-

   16. KMKyle Maynard5:35

       Yeah

   17. TFTim Ferriss5:36

       ... are presenting you with-

   18. KMKyle Maynard5:37

       Totally

   19. TFTim Ferriss5:37

       ... that image of yourself, then it makes sense.

   20. KMKyle Maynard5:39

       I just like kind of sometimes, too, I mean, this is kind of, this is, like, a small thing, but and it's, it's, and it's really not. Like, I hear parents that are like, "Oh, my kid's bad at math." I'm like, "What?"

   21. TFTim Ferriss5:47

       Yeah.

   22. KMKyle Maynard5:47

       Like, "He's not," you know, maybe s- you know, whatever, he might be lazy. That might be true, but- [laughs]

   23. TFTim Ferriss5:52

       No, yeah

   24. KMKyle Maynard5:52

       ... they say that, like, "My kid's lazy," or, "My kid's bad at math," or something like that. They don't realize how they're actually, like, I think in a lot of ways, like, they're creating that, right?

   25. TFTim Ferriss5:59

       Yeah.

   26. KMKyle Maynard5:59

       How they go and see their kids are gonna be how the kids see themselves.

   27. TFTim Ferriss6:02

       Totally. Yeah.

   28. KMKyle Maynard6:02

       So-

   29. TFTim Ferriss6:02

       Self-fulfilling prophecy.

   30. KMKyle Maynard6:03

       Yeah. But my mom, I mean, she was the coolest with this, where it was like, you know, she wanted me to have friends in the neighborhood, and she knew that the socialization aspects of things were gonna be the most critical to my development. And, like, so she would org- she'd be out, like, you know, corralling other kids to play, like, neighborhood street hockey games, and, you know- She was working as, like, a temp secretary and my dad was in college at the time. They didn't have money, but she, they would buy, like, the Super Nintendo, so, like, you know, the newest gaming system so they'd have friends come over and wanna play.

6. 6:28 – 9:16

   Learning independence: eating skills and letting go of prosthetics

   1. TFTim Ferriss6:28

      Cool. How did you, for instance, just things that I think all, uh, many people in this audience, probably all of us take for granted, like, how did you learn to eat, for instance?

   2. KMKyle Maynard6:38

      Yeah, it was, um, so that was an example of where my mom wanted to help, you know. She wanted to go and do it for me. My dad, he knew that, you know, there was gonna come a time to, um, you know, that I wanted to go and do, w- I would wanna be able to go and do that on my own, right? So I used to use a prosthetic spoon and, and a lot of times we would forget it and leave it at home, and I'd be dependent on my mom or my grandma to feed me. And, you know, it was... He kinda brought up the point, and I, I kinda say this, like, jokingly now, but it, it's true, right? Like, can you imagine, like, senior prom date or something like that, I'm not gonna want, like, my mom or grandma hanging out behind me, like, "Oh, here's a bite, Kyle." Like, "Oh, you know-

   3. TFTim Ferriss7:13

      [laughs]

   4. SPSpeaker7:13

      [laughs]

   5. KMKyle Maynard7:13

      ... cool." It's kinda like th- he got the bigger picture of the fact that, like, you know, the w- the world was not tailored for, for someone that was born like me. So then I'd have to be able to adapt to go and figure it out.

   6. TFTim Ferriss7:26

      What was the process like?

   7. KMKyle Maynard7:28

      I mean, I don't, I was two or three years old, right? Barely have any conscious, like, m- memory or recollection of this. But I'd probably dropped the spoon, like, thousands of times.

   8. TFTim Ferriss7:37

      And did you ever wear prosthetics or consider prosthetics?

   9. KMKyle Maynard7:42

      I did. Um, I wore 'em up until I was in, uh, kindergarten. And, um, for, like, a little bit on and off, I hated 'em. They weren't natural. They were big, bulky, and like, it just, they slowed me down more than they helped. It was more of a cosmetic reason that I decided to wear 'em.

   10. TFTim Ferriss7:55

       Mm-hmm.

   11. KMKyle Maynard7:56

       But it was, um, actually one day, um, you know, I, sitting like this in a, uh, a chair, um, surrounded by, you know, my, like, kindergarten classroom, and it was my turn to do, like, show and tell, and I had these big prosthetic arms on, and I'm trying to, like, I brought this, like, toy machine gun to school, which wouldn't really fly, but I'm like, nowadays, right? But I'm, like, taking the, the hooks from the prosthetic and trying to make the sound with the gun. And, like, I fumbled with it and dropped it on the ground, and I couldn't pick, jump out and grab it. And, um, I was so embarrassed. I wanted to come to school without the arms and legs the next day. And, like... And my mom just, she just, she called the teacher and just talked to her. And, um, the teacher was like, "Yeah, bring Kyle to the second half of school tomorrow. I'll talk to him in, in the morning with the kids." And 'cause apparently, I mean, this is a group of, like, kindergartners, right? So, like, it took, like, three hours to explain to the class, like, why Kyle had arms and legs yesterday, but he's not going to today.

   12. TFTim Ferriss8:52

       [laughs]

   13. SPSpeaker8:53

       [laughs]

   14. KMKyle Maynard8:54

       You know? It was just-

   15. TFTim Ferriss8:56

       Yeah

   16. KMKyle Maynard8:56

       ... kinda, like, trip the kids out-

   17. TFTim Ferriss8:57

       That's a lot to absorb

   18. KMKyle Maynard8:58

       ... a little bit, right?

   19. TFTim Ferriss8:58

       Yeah.

   20. KMKyle Maynard8:58

       Totally.

   21. TFTim Ferriss8:59

       [laughs]

   22. KMKyle Maynard9:00

       And they-

   23. TFTim Ferriss9:01

       Like, I know we're working on letters, but take a second, we're gonna-

   24. KMKyle Maynard9:04

       Right. [laughs]

   25. SPSpeaker9:05

       [laughs]

   26. KMKyle Maynard9:06

       But the kids, at the end of the day, they told the teacher, they said that they liked me better like that.

   27. TFTim Ferriss9:11

       Mm-hmm.

   28. KMKyle Maynard9:12

       And, uh, 'cause I got to jump around, I got to go and play with them and all that, and that was the last time I ever wore 'em.

7. 9:16 – 13:24

   Fear of girls, fear of the future, and the idea that fear doesn’t vanish

   1. TFTim Ferriss9:16

      When you were growing up, what were you most afraid of? What intimidated you the most, or what was harder than you thought it would be?

   2. KMKyle Maynard9:24

      Uh, definitely girls.

   3. TFTim Ferriss9:25

      Girls.

   4. KMKyle Maynard9:26

      Yeah, 100%.

   5. TFTim Ferriss9:26

      Yeah.

   6. KMKyle Maynard9:27

      Yeah.

   7. TFTim Ferriss9:27

      That seems pretty common. [laughs]

   8. KMKyle Maynard9:28

      Yeah, for anybody really.

   9. TFTim Ferriss9:29

      Uh, but yeah, for anybody.

   10. KMKyle Maynard9:30

       Yeah.

   11. TFTim Ferriss9:30

       But how did you contend with that?

   12. KMKyle Maynard9:33

       I was a, I mean, you know, a, it, it was, it was actually, you know, it's a lot of probably at 10 years old and started to become, like, attracted to girls and stuff, it was like that was a lot of probably the questioning of, like, what is the rest of my life gonna go and look like, you know? That was a big part of it. I know, you know, it's like with anybody with any type of, like, physical difference, you know, it's a big thing. It's like, am I gonna s- be able to find or seek companionship or all that, right?

   13. TFTim Ferriss10:01

       Yeah.

   14. KMKyle Maynard10:02

       And, um, you know, like, probably the most fear-filled moment of my entire life to date was, uh, you know, not, like, Kilimanjaro or, like, stepping into a cage and fighting MMA. It was, like, asking my senior prom date out, you know? [laughs]

   15. TFTim Ferriss10:14

       [laughs]

   16. KMKyle Maynard10:15

       And 'cause it, but at the same time too, it's then, you know, now fast-forward to where life is, it's like I've had an amazing dating life. I've dated some amazing girls. You know, my mom's ticked off that I haven't, like, settled down to, like, find the right one yet and give her grandkids, but, you know, something-

   17. TFTim Ferriss10:31

       Sounds like a lot of moms.

   18. KMKyle Maynard10:32

       Yeah. You know, I remember, uh, meeting at the event with you. Neil Strauss was there, right?

   19. TFTim Ferriss10:36

       Yeah.

   20. KMKyle Maynard10:37

       And I was thinking, like, you know-

   21. TFTim Ferriss10:38

       So Neil Strauss, he's written eight New York Times bestselling books, uh, including The Game. So.

   22. KMKyle Maynard10:44

       Yeah, and, you know, it was like, we should totally have, like, a pickup seminar for guys in wheelchairs.

   23. TFTim Ferriss10:49

       Yeah.

   24. KMKyle Maynard10:50

       You know? [laughs]

   25. TFTim Ferriss10:51

       Well, you know, I wasn't, I was gonna wait until a little bit later to, to ask this, but let's say if you meet a vet who's newly-

   26. KMKyle Maynard10:57

       Mm

   27. TFTim Ferriss10:57

       ... an amputee and they have some of these concerns, right? What's the rest of my life gonna look like? Am I gonna have companionship? What do you say or do in that situation?

   28. KMKyle Maynard11:06

       You know, I think it's really tough because being born the way that I was, yes, like, in, in, you know, these earlier years, there were a lot of those difficult emotions to process, right? There were a lot of, like, painful times. I mean, when I was 10 years old, kind of swirling with a lot of the stuff of, like, what, what is the future gonna be? I mean, I got to a point where I did not see, like, I didn't wanna go on living at 10, you know? It was, like, 10 years old. Obviously now being able to look back, it, it just, you know, it's... I couldn't even imagine what life would be. And I want them, you know, for someone that if they were a veteran or if they went through some type of accident or injury, to be able to see that hope and that future, right? But at the same time, have to go and realize that right then for them in that moment, it's way hard, and it's 1,000 times harder, in my opinion, to go through and, you know, if you live 20 or 30 or 40 years with arms and legs and then you lose them, your brain and all of its neurology, right, is hardwired to, like, when, you know, they go to pick up a coffee cup, they go to pick it up with their hand, right? I've never had that programming. So all of my motor development, all of everything was developed around what I have currently, being since it was congenital. So I think it, you know, and now they're also dealing with all of, like, the emotional processing side of things too. But I just, I really want them to know that they are capable of living whatever life it is that they set out, that they can still create the life that they, they want to, right? It's, it's not gonna be easy, not gonna be, like, they don't have to process some of this stuff and deal with some of this stuff. But just in like the topic of the, I mean, the show, it's like, right? Like fear is, is ubiquitous. I mean, it's, like everybody experiences it all the time.

   29. TFTim Ferriss12:49

       Yeah.

   30. KMKyle Maynard12:49

       The difference is the people I think that have a great life versus someone that, that sort of just getting by or struggling is they think at some point maybe the fear is just gonna go away, and then they'll be able to start or something like that. You know, I, I think you just have to be able to jump in and find a way to be able to live your life now, you know?
8. 13:24 – 15:06

   A turning point: first football tackle and the power of flow

   1. KMKyle Maynard13:24

      I, I think, um, if I had to pick like a moment in time, it was making my first tackle in football.

   2. TFTim Ferriss13:30

      Okay. Let's talk about it.

   3. KMKyle Maynard13:31

      Yeah.

   4. TFTim Ferriss13:31

      Tell us about it.

   5. KMKyle Maynard13:33

      Um, I was convinced I was gonna be the quarterback on the team. You know, [laughs] I was like, "No question they're gonna make me the quarterback," and they told me to line up as a nose guard, so defensive line. And first day of practice, we weren't even like in full pads, but just wearing helmets and stuff, and the center went to go and snap the ball between his legs, and I'm lined up right across from him, and they told me my job was to like follow the ball, and he basically just like stood straight up. And so I just dove under his legs. [laughs]

   6. TFTim Ferriss13:56

      [laughs]

   7. KMKyle Maynard13:56

      Smashed my helmet in the quarterback's legs, knocked him over, first play, got the sack. Came home that night and called my dad. He's out of town on a business trip, and I was like, "I think we're done with youth football. I'm going straight to the NFL." [laughs]

   8. TFTim Ferriss14:07

      [laughs]

   9. SPSpeaker14:08

      [laughs]

   10. KMKyle Maynard14:08

       And-

   11. TFTim Ferriss14:10

       So there's a good photo.

   12. KMKyle Maynard14:12

       Right. [laughs]

   13. TFTim Ferriss14:13

       So that, that was one of the moments.

   14. KMKyle Maynard14:14

       Big time, 'cause it was like at that moment, I, it was like this moment of achieving something I never thought that I could before, and like, you know, being a part of the team, and the camaraderie, and all that, right? So it was like, you know, a- all of these like psychological studies and books on like, you know, en- engagement and flow and all that, right? You know, you, when you are in that flow state, then it's like you aren't thinking about anything else, right?

   15. TFTim Ferriss14:36

       Right.

   16. KMKyle Maynard14:36

       That's why I love like jujitsu or mountain climbing, that kind of stuff now, 'cause it's like when I'm doing that, you know, if I think about like, "Oh, man, I gotta go do my taxes," then I get choked, right?

   17. TFTim Ferriss14:45

       Yeah, right. There's an immediate penalty.

   18. KMKyle Maynard14:47

       Yeah, big time.

   19. TFTim Ferriss14:47

       [laughs]

   20. KMKyle Maynard14:48

       So-

   21. TFTim Ferriss14:48

       You're not just sitting on a couch meditating trying to get into the zone.

   22. KMKyle Maynard14:51

       Right.

   23. TFTim Ferriss14:51

       There's like an immediate repercussion.

   24. KMKyle Maynard14:52

       Immediate repercussion. But like in that moment, it was like I, I wasn't worried about am I gonna have to live at home with my mom and dad forever.

   25. TFTim Ferriss14:59

       Yeah.

   26. KMKyle Maynard15:00

       Am I ever gonna have a girlfriend? You know, all of those fears and doubts and those questions started to kind of loosen the grip on that.

9. 15:06 – 16:49

   The wrestling ‘lie’ that fueled persistence—and the first win

   1. TFTim Ferriss15:06

      And your dad want, your dad suggested the wrestling? Is that how that started?

   2. KMKyle Maynard15:10

      Yeah, he basically tricked me into coming out. So the rule was is that if, if for me or my sisters, if we signed up for any type of sport or activity, we had to finish it. Like at least finish the season. You know, we didn't have to sign up and do it again, but you had to like sign up, you know, and, and finish that season. So I did sixth grade, didn't wanna ever do it again. I was like done. And, um, seventh grade signups came up, and my dad was like, "Yeah, maybe you should try it again," you know, blah, blah, blah, and I'm like, "No. Absolutely not." And he said, "You know, I wanna tell you something I never really talked to you about." He said, "I didn't win a single match my first year either." And I knew that he'd become a good, a really good wrestler like in high school and college and stuff later on. I was like, "Wow, really?" And he's like, "Yeah, nobody ever wins a match their first year in wrestling. It's actually really common." He said, "But everybody wins a match their second season because you'll find somebody who's their first season, and you'll beat up on them, right?" [laughs]

   3. TFTim Ferriss15:57

      [laughs]

   4. SPSpeaker15:57

      [laughs]

   5. KMKyle Maynard15:58

      So I was like, "Awesome, sign me up."

   6. TFTim Ferriss15:59

      [laughs]

   7. KMKyle Maynard16:00

      And to make a long story short, I was interviewing, uh, my [laughs] dad's dad, my grandpa, for my book when I went through to, when I was writing, and, and I was asking him, I was like, "Did, when my dad was losing all his matches his first year, like did he wanna quit, too?" 'Cause I did. I begged to quit all the time and, and they would drag me out to these tournaments. And he was like, had no idea what I was talking about 'cause that whole story had been a complete lie.

   8. TFTim Ferriss16:22

      [laughs]

   9. SPSpeaker16:22

      [laughs]

   10. KMKyle Maynard16:24

       So based my entire life off of that lie.

   11. SPSpeaker16:26

       [laughs]

   12. KMKyle Maynard16:27

       Right? And so then the first kid that I beat, I see this like, you know, before the match started I hadn't beat him, like this kid's like, "Oh, that kid's a first-year wrestler? He's pretty scrawny." I was like, you know, "He's not even warming up the right way. Like look at him jumping around like a..."

   13. TFTim Ferriss16:38

       [laughs]

   14. SPSpeaker16:39

       [laughs]

   15. KMKyle Maynard16:39

       We shook hands. I was like, "He had a weak handshake."

   16. TFTim Ferriss16:40

       [laughs]

   17. SPSpeaker16:41

       [laughs]

   18. KMKyle Maynard16:41

       Like took the kid down and landed on top and was like, "Whoa, this is awesome," and I was like more shocked than he was. Like-

   19. TFTim Ferriss16:46

       [laughs]

   20. SPSpeaker16:47

       [laughs]

   21. KMKyle Maynard16:47

       ... I'm just gonna keep doing it, so.

10. 16:49 – 19:50

    Onstage technique breakdown: closing distance, duck-unders, and the ‘Jawbreaker’

    1. TFTim Ferriss16:49

       So let's, uh, let's pull up a video of one of your wins.

    2. KMKyle Maynard16:52

       [laughs]

    3. TFTim Ferriss16:52

       Let's take a look.

    4. SPSpeaker16:55

       Come on, Kyle, let's do it.

    5. KMKyle Maynard16:57

       There you go.

    6. SPSpeaker17:03

       Grab legs. Grab legs. Yeah, Kyle, you got it. Come on, yeah. Yeah, woo. Woo-hoo.

    7. TFTim Ferriss17:14

       So-

    8. SPSpeaker17:15

       [applause]

    9. TFTim Ferriss17:16

       So we also have some photos, and when they have a chance, I want them to pull up a photo-

    10. KMKyle Maynard17:20

        Okay

    11. TFTim Ferriss17:20

        ... of like a low leg attack. I was really-

    12. KMKyle Maynard17:22

        Yeah

    13. TFTim Ferriss17:22

        ... amazed when I saw this photo. So-

    14. KMKyle Maynard17:23

        I could demonstrate one right here if you want, you know.

    15. TFTim Ferriss17:25

        Yeah.

    16. KMKyle Maynard17:26

        [laughs]

    17. TFTim Ferriss17:26

        Let's do it. So yeah, yeah.

    18. KMKyle Maynard17:27

        Yeah, let's do it.

    19. TFTim Ferriss17:27

        Let's do it.

    20. KMKyle Maynard17:28

        All right.

    21. TFTim Ferriss17:28

        All right, let's... [laughs]

    22. SPSpeaker17:30

        [applause]

    23. KMKyle Maynard17:31

        I mean, I knew at some point this was gonna happen, right? [laughs]

    24. TFTim Ferriss17:33

        Please, please do not break my knee. All right.

    25. KMKyle Maynard17:35

        No, we'll go through it slow.

    26. TFTim Ferriss17:36

        All right. So how, how do you want to, how do you want to do this?

    27. KMKyle Maynard17:37

        So like, you know, a normal wrestling match starts, we come out, we go and shake hands.

    28. TFTim Ferriss17:41

        Yeah.

    29. KMKyle Maynard17:41

        Right? And a lot of times, like guys would like push on my head and-

    30. TFTim Ferriss17:44

        Yeah
11. 19:50 – 23:12

    Hall of Fame reflection, ‘cultivated advantage,’ and the fear of seeming helpless

    1. TFTim Ferriss19:50

       Yeah, no. Of all the people I'm gonna pick. So you were inducted into the National Wrestling Hall of Fame. That's a big deal.

    2. SPSpeaker19:57

       [clapping] Whoo. Whoo.

    3. TFTim Ferriss20:02

       That's a big deal.

    4. KMKyle Maynard20:02

       Thanks.

    5. TFTim Ferriss20:03

       I mean-

    6. KMKyle Maynard20:04

       It's, uh-

    7. TFTim Ferriss20:04

       My heroes are in that Hall of Fame.

    8. KMKyle Maynard20:07

       Totally. Mine, too.

    9. TFTim Ferriss20:08

       How did, how did that feel? How did that happen?

    10. KMKyle Maynard20:12

        [sighs] It was... I mean, i- in, in contrast to how bad I was when [laughs] you know, when I started, it was really just a cool moment to be able to kinda like reflect and look back and see, you know, how just, just how, I mean, how far we've gotten to come. I mean, it was really, it was really pretty wild. There was a big argument in, um, when I was competing in wrestling and jujitsu a- as to whether or not I was unfairly advantaged, you know, which is an interesting juxtaposition-

    11. TFTim Ferriss20:40

        Yeah

    12. KMKyle Maynard20:40

        ... of like kind of like how bad I was, like I talked about when I first started, to then, you know, later people were saying, "Yeah, he's unfairly advantaged," 'cause I was competing against... You know, in high school I weighed 103 pounds, and you know, many moons ago, and you know, I'm going up against these 103 pound kids, and weren't huge kids, right? And I had a bigger upper torso than, than the kids I was going up against. And you know, some of the, probably some of the similar people [laughs] that were saying that like, "Oh, man, this is like child abuse, that his parents are making him doing this," are now saying like, "He's got an unfair advantage over these kids."

    13. TFTim Ferriss21:10

        Wait, you're like, "You just pinned my son." [laughs]

    14. KMKyle Maynard21:11

        Yeah. [laughs] Exact-

    15. TFTim Ferriss21:12

        "I changed my mind."

    16. KMKyle Maynard21:13

        [laughs]

    17. SPSpeaker21:14

        [laughs]

    18. KMKyle Maynard21:15

        And it happened quick. It was really interesting. It was, um, you know, and to, but to me I think in a lot of ways, I think that with the wrestling and all that, in particular it was a cultivated advantage.

    19. TFTim Ferriss21:26

        Mm-hmm.

    20. KMKyle Maynard21:26

        And I'm all about, you know, you're all about those like, you know, advantages that you cultivate, give you an edge.

    21. TFTim Ferriss21:32

        What did you, what was the most valuable thing that you took from that whole experience?

    22. KMKyle Maynard21:36

        It wasn't until pretty recently, within the last two or so years of doing some like deeper self-reflection that I realized, um, I could kinda summarize my biggest fear was being seen as helpless. You know, and you can imagine like as a kid I, of course, like I would s- just like if other kids were laughing or joking or making fun of me I would, would wanna like prove to them that I wasn't helpless. So wrestling, mountain climbing, those are sports that, you know, are, I mean, have a little bit of the bent of like, "I'm gonna show you that I'm not helpless," right?

    23. TFTim Ferriss22:12

        Mm-hmm.

    24. KMKyle Maynard22:12

        And [clears throat] so but I think that now in acknowledging that I'm so grateful for that, too, but I don't have to be driven by that. Doesn't have to be the thing that's running the show. And I think that if we have these experiences and these fears that are outside of our awareness, then, then it can start to go and run the show. You know, and I've, I've met billionaires that, you know, there's some moment in time, right? That it was like running the show for them, and maybe it was from when time when they were six or seven years old.

    25. TFTim Ferriss22:46

        Mm-hmm. I heard someone ask an ultra runner once, they said, "Well, what are you running from?"

    26. KMKyle Maynard22:53

        Mm.

    27. TFTim Ferriss22:53

        [laughs] And it's, uh, that switch, not everyone makes it, going from running away from something to running towards something.

    28. KMKyle Maynard23:01

        Yep.

    29. TFTim Ferriss23:01

        How did you develop that awareness so that you could use it as a tool maybe when you choose, but not to have it use you? Like how did you develop that awareness?

12. 23:12 – 27:28

    Self-awareness, recurring helplessness dream, and reframing triggers in real life

    1. KMKyle Maynard23:12

       I think that one of the competitive advantages that, that I have is, is that like the disability from a physical side, it got me to ask some bigger philosophical questions at a younger age, you know? And I, I know that it, it just, that kinda started to generate some just questioning, deeper questioning of like, what is this about, you know? What is this experience about? What is this life about? What is, what, I mean, what am I, you know, why did this happen? What, what's, what is the larger context here? Like all of these sort of things. And then like what did people thousands of years ago think about this, you know? And even before that, you know? I mean, like it just, I think that we're all sort of in this inquiry in s- in some level, but then we kinda s- you know, we get stuck in our day-to-day and whatever. Th- the physical disability I think sometimes is like a, it's a little bit of an access in that. It kinda forces you to, you know, maybe for some kids to, to kinda look at some of those things at a, at a younger age. For me, I could summarize it in a, in a recurring dream that I had. Um, it wasn't until two years ago that I had an experience of like remembering this dream. And when I remembered it, like I just started crying, and I could see all of my successes and all of my failures, and it was just like, like it was like these buildings like, you know, that I'd built just kind of crumbling down. And the dream was I was in the, the backseat of my dad's, um, car, and he had this, um, e-brake that he'd go and pull, so like you'd push it with your thumb and he'd pull it up.

    2. TFTim Ferriss24:36

       Yep.

    3. KMKyle Maynard24:37

       Or it was like a parking brake, right? So with the parking brake on this hill, and, um- All of a sudden in the dream, I'd be in the car by myself and the parking brake would come off. And I would try to do whatever I could to like grab it, and I couldn't pull it up. And I couldn't stop the car. And then the car would just pick up speed, and eventually it was just like, you know, would just like wake up and have this like fear of like kind of falling feeling, right? And it was like just this intense, this intense fear and this intense feeling of like helplessness. That was like from the time I was maybe like five or six to like middle school. I had that dream a couple times a year. You know, it was pretty, it was pretty intense. And, um, I, I think now, you know, if I'm in the airport traveling, sometimes I'll pull up to the gate in the plane, the gate agent, you know, is like, will have different responses. Sometimes they're totally cool and I tell them I'll jump out of my chair and I'll go and walk to the plane. Sometimes, sometimes they won't believe me, and sometimes, you know, it's like, "You know, you can't do it." And I'm like, "Can I..." You know, it would trigger some of that stuff where it would be like, you know, um, like some of those like helpless feelings. And, and I'd have this thought that would be there of like, "Man, like, you know, you don't have any idea of like the places that I've been. Like, you probably couldn't go, right? You probably couldn't be able to climb Aconcagua or something like that, you know?" And I'm like, I have that thought and I'm like, "Oh man, that's a stupid thought." 'Cause I think if you have awareness of something, you know, have... It's like pops up into my head and I'm like, "Oh, well that's just my own fear. That's my own insecurity." And then it can go away. But if it's just behind the scenes running the show, it's like, you know, I think a lot of us, I mean, human beings, we're wired that for whatever reason we kind of make these decisions up about ourselves.

    4. TFTim Ferriss26:31

       I think also human beings, just evolutionarily speaking, we're wired for survival, not for-

    5. KMKyle Maynard26:36

       Yeah

    6. TFTim Ferriss26:36

       ... happiness. That's not what your genes are m- are optimized for necessarily, right?

    7. KMKyle Maynard26:41

       Mm-hmm.

    8. TFTim Ferriss26:41

       So it's a something you have to, at least something I have to work on. It's like [laughs] I can go dark really fast, for whatever reason. It's just-

    9. KMKyle Maynard26:48

       [laughs]

    10. TFTim Ferriss26:48

        ... it's been, it's been a trend.

    11. KMKyle Maynard26:50

        Yeah.

    12. TFTim Ferriss26:51

        And, um-

    13. KMKyle Maynard26:51

        But I love that you share that, though. You know? You're real. And I want people to know for me, I've had periods of time of feeling like a fraud in front of groups of people, you know, where I'm like, man, like I'm really struggling with X, Y, or Z. How do I have any right to go and tell anybody here anything? It, but then now, and I'm sure you've maybe had similar experiences, but like I've gotten to be around enough people where I can see that it's almost the people that, that don't share that, that those are the ones that I'm like, ugh. You know, I wanna stay away from 'cause it's like they don't acknowledge that like, 'cause it's everybody, we all have that stuff, right? We all do.

13. 27:28 – 31:45

    Speaking, identity beyond labels, and intellectual influences

    1. TFTim Ferriss27:28

       Let's pull up a video of you doing some speaking.

    2. KMKyle Maynard27:32

       I would say my purpose in life, at least from my perspective, would be to help show other people their purpose. That other people and what they think is totally irrelevant. That for me inside my heart, this is what I'm capable of doing. This is what I deserve. They're thinking about if I were in your shoes and I were running your business, I could not do it. That is a lie. You decide. You decide what you're capable of and believe and deserve. [audience applauds]

    3. TFTim Ferriss28:10

       Why do you do your speaking? 200 days on the road, that's a lot of days on the road, man.

    4. KMKyle Maynard28:15

       Mm.

    5. TFTim Ferriss28:15

       Why the speaking? What drives that?

    6. KMKyle Maynard28:17

       To me it, it is a, like there's, there's, again, so many different whys that are interconnected with that. It's like a, a form of artistry for me. I think that like, you know, a speech is, is something that I can bring that creativity to. And it's also, you know, but it's, it's, I'm, I'm not that one thing. I'm not a speaker, I'm not an author. I'm not any one thing. You know, I'm not even an entrepreneur. I don't care. Like, I don't care to have any label. Not an, you know, an amputee or a wrestler or whatever. I wanna not know what I am, right? So I can go and f- like find and be curious and figure it out. Like, if I had to pick one defining quote for my life, um, Emerson said, "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path, and leave a trail."

    7. TFTim Ferriss28:55

       Applaud you, man. We are gonna go to some audience questions. If you had to pick the most inspiring religious or spiritual leader, who would it be, and why?

    8. KMKyle Maynard29:04

       I would say Emerson, for sure. Like, I've read all of his works, and I mean, it's, it's had a profound impact on me. Joseph Campbell's another one. Um, you know, but, uh, yeah. I mean, I'm just constantly, like I geek out on that stuff hard. The thing I'm obsessed with currently is the, uh, the Upanishads. And so-

    9. TFTim Ferriss29:21

       Yeah

    10. KMKyle Maynard29:21

        ... um, you know, it's just like thousands of years old, a lot of these ideas, right? When it's, we, we kinda like to go and put different wrappers on things and think that we've got s- you know, different smart ways to figure stuff out, but it's really just like, it's s- this knowledge of life and this inquiry is like so old. And it, it cracks me up now. I, I love, I'm also a big fan of like Martin Seligman and positive psychology and Albert Bandura, you know, in the sort of the, the research side of things, but it like cracks me up. And I was talking to, I told you, did a, uh, a interview with, uh, Mark Divine today. And, um, s- Navy SEAL commander, and we were just joking that like researchers will be like, "New," you know, "New headline, smiling makes you happier." You know? [laughs]

    11. TFTim Ferriss30:04

        [laughs]

    12. KMKyle Maynard30:04

        It's like, wow. [laughs]

    13. TFTim Ferriss30:06

        Thanks. That's where my tax dollars are going.

    14. KMKyle Maynard30:08

        Right? [laughs]

    15. TFTim Ferriss30:08

        Sweet.

    16. KMKyle Maynard30:09

        You know, it's like this was probably, you know, it was like 10,000 years ago, right?

    17. TFTim Ferriss30:13

        [laughs] Yeah.

    18. KMKyle Maynard30:14

        Somebody had, "Hey, smile and you'll feel better." [laughs]

    19. TFTim Ferriss30:17

        Put two and two together.

    20. KMKyle Maynard30:18

        [laughs]

    21. TFTim Ferriss30:20

        So you, I read this and I was like, of course, just because we've spent a little bit of time together, but it was like, uh, known for having nice handwriting.

    22. KMKyle Maynard30:28

        [laughs]

    23. TFTim Ferriss30:29

        And I was like, okay, yeah, of course.

    24. KMKyle Maynard30:31

        [laughs]

    25. TFTim Ferriss30:31

        Like it's, [laughs] of course Kyle would have better handwriting than I do-

    26. KMKyle Maynard30:33

        [laughs]

    27. TFTim Ferriss30:33

        ... which you do. Uh, so I wanted to actually pull up an example of your handwriting, uh, as much for the content as the handwriting itself. I know there are many people who, whether they admit it or not, view disabled people as inferior. We are, quote, "broken in their eyes, we are of no use, no value, and we are just running out the string on life. But I believe that we are all disabled in one way or another, including disabilities of character and personality. My disability just happens to be more visual than some." [audience applauding] This, this really, when I read that, I was, it's, uh, it really impacted me because it's true. [laughs] I mean, that sounds maybe a simplistic way to put it, but it's really profound, right? You have people walking around with... Everybody has their own wounds. They're all battling their own demons.

    28. KMKyle Maynard31:29

        Yeah.

    29. TFTim Ferriss31:29

        And I remember I was really bent out of shape about some personal flaw or [laughs] weakness and, uh, I think it was, it was, it was like an aunt who I think had had too much to drink.

    30. KMKyle Maynard31:39

        [laughs]
14. 31:45 – 38:58

    Quitting vs. persistence, strength as an entry point, and asking for help

    1. TFTim Ferriss31:45

       Like, we all have those gaps. So, so this is from Twitter, @MestonMD, "What specific things do you tell yourself when the thought of quitting enters your s- your mind?"

    2. KMKyle Maynard31:57

       Mm. I, I think a lot of it is I, I try to examine just, like, what, what is that coming from, right? Because sometimes I think that, and this is one of the things that's kinda changed and shift, right? I used to talk about, like, oh, never, ever give up. Now I'm like giving up is super important, and you should give up a lot of things a lot quicker.

    3. TFTim Ferriss32:15

       Yeah.

    4. KMKyle Maynard32:15

       A job that you hate, a relationship that sucks, like, give it up immediately, right? Like [laughs]

    5. TFTim Ferriss32:19

       [laughs] [audience applauding]

    6. KMKyle Maynard32:25

       So, but there's other instances where, too, it's like that's a gray area, and I know something that we'll probably talk about was, like, the mountain climbing.

    7. TFTim Ferriss32:32

       Yeah, for sure.

    8. KMKyle Maynard32:32

       You know? But, you know, for a little taster of that, a lot of, like, a lot of my experience with mountain climbing is, you know, gotten to the point where I'm like how far is too far?

    9. TFTim Ferriss32:42

       Yeah.

    10. KMKyle Maynard32:43

        You know? Like, yeah, I can go and have, like, I can push myself, but, like, will there be irreparable harm?

    11. TFTim Ferriss32:50

        Yeah.

    12. KMKyle Maynard32:51

        You know? And, like, you know, so of course, like, probably 95% of any climb that I've ever done [laughs] like I'm, like, wanting to quit. And, um, you know, the 5% that I'm not it's like I'm either hanging out with my friends or looking around at how beautiful this is. But it's like a lot of the time I have that thought going through my head, and the, the most brutal parts of, of either climb in Aconcagua or Kilimanjaro that I took on were the last day that I could have paid extra for, like, a helicopter evac.

    13. TFTim Ferriss33:23

        Right.

    14. KMKyle Maynard33:23

        And I realized it was, like, because I had that option and that choice to, to, to get that evac it made things, like the suffering, way worse.

    15. TFTim Ferriss33:34

        Uh, so I wanna, I wanna pull up a photo of you. I believe it might be in your gym, could be elsewhere, but working out on rings. So it looks like you're having a-

    16. KMKyle Maynard33:43

        [laughs]

    17. TFTim Ferriss33:43

        ... pretty pleasant afternoon.

    18. KMKyle Maynard33:44

        Pretty good time. [laughs]

    19. TFTim Ferriss33:46

        Uh, what role has building physical strength played in overcoming mental, emotional, and social challenges for you?

    20. KMKyle Maynard33:53

        I, I think that easily the, the physical is the, the easiest and first access to, um, you know, I think just to, like, gaining some type of, like, inner awareness. I mean, it's just that, like, as a baseline is a awesome place to start. But I think it just doesn't, doesn't stop there. I think sometimes if you have people that they aren't able to really contextualize what they're doing and see how the physical can map into everything, right? It's kind of all the same stuff.

    21. TFTim Ferriss34:20

        Yeah.

    22. KMKyle Maynard34:20

        So the same lessons you're gonna go and learn there are the things that are gonna help you in business, the same things are gonna help you in your relationships or your passions and all that. It's just-

    23. TFTim Ferriss34:27

        Right

    24. KMKyle Maynard34:27

        ... realizing that it's kind of all the same, and nothing happens quick.

    25. TFTim Ferriss34:31

        Yeah.

    26. KMKyle Maynard34:32

        So it's, it does take a lot of time, and frankly, you know, a lot [laughs] of suffering and a lot of failure and a lot of, like, stuff that nobody really wants to, like, do. It's, like, more of, like, I wanna take this pill and get this effect. I wanna go and have this thing, you know? I mean, I, I love a lot of, like, the, the biohacking stuff, but I feel like kind of like the, the thing that we go and do by cheapening the process is, like, we skip a lot of steps along the way.

    27. TFTim Ferriss34:55

        I think a lot of people forget that they're supplements for a reason, right?

    28. KMKyle Maynard34:59

        Yeah, totally.

    29. TFTim Ferriss34:59

        [laughs] It's not primary. Uh, and just to underscore something that you mentioned, uh, or looking at it in maybe a slightly different way, but I, I, this is how I've thought about it a lot, is, like, when I'm in dark periods the f- most fruitless thing that I can do personally, I'm not saying this applies to everybody, but is to try to think my way out of it.

    30. KMKyle Maynard35:21

        Mm.
15. 38:58 – 41:58

    Building a tribe, ‘Mountain Movement,’ and updating your mental maps

    1. KMKyle Maynard38:58

       I take it as a, an article that I know that you've recommended a bunch that I have, have gifted to all my entrepreneur friends is, um, 1,000 True Fans.

    2. TFTim Ferriss39:05

       1,000 True Fans by Kevin Kelly.

    3. KMKyle Maynard39:07

       Yep.

    4. TFTim Ferriss39:07

       Oh, yeah.

    5. KMKyle Maynard39:08

       And that's made a huge difference for me, 'cause I'm like, you know, and frankly, it's like, you know, is my own ego, like, that, like, tells me like, oh, I need to have an audience the size of Tony Robbins or Tim Ferriss, right? It's like, not necessarily. Like, I need to, to really be able to communicate and tap into, like, who is my tribe.

    6. TFTim Ferriss39:27

       Yeah.

    7. KMKyle Maynard39:27

       And I, you know, in the process right now of, like, literally, like, I'm finally, like, like, balls out I'm creating it. And, like, um, you know, the, the wrapper that I wanna go and use for that brand is the, the Mountain Movement. But the whole idea is I want people to go and, like, get over this idea of, of, of, you know, of knowing that they have all the right answers and that their beliefs are the right way. It's like in a, in, in any belief, right? I challenge any belief in that. I'm not talking about one thing. It's like a mountain, it does not care how, like, what race you are, what gender you are, whether you're in a whe- wheelchair or not. It doesn't give a shit, right?

    8. TFTim Ferriss40:04

       Yeah.

    9. KMKyle Maynard40:04

       A mountain's like zero F's given. I mean, like, 100%, right?

    10. TFTim Ferriss40:07

        [laughs]

    11. KMKyle Maynard40:07

        Like, and it's, it's, it's kind of in its, in, in, in that it's beautiful in its indifference, I think.

    12. TFTim Ferriss40:13

        Yeah.

    13. KMKyle Maynard40:13

        And at the same time, it's like I think wanna go and empower people to go in their own metaphorical mountains, like how do they go and climb those things, and how do they go and build that team to ultimately, like, leave the world better than they found it. Like, it's, 'cause it's, right now it's insane, you know? I mean, like, just the, the polarity and all that stuff that we're experiencing and seeing, it's... I don't know. And I, I mean, I'm guilty of it, too, right? We all have our assumptions and beliefs and judgments, and it's just like it's impossible to see somebody else's perspective with that. And when people, when you look at me or if someone looks at me for the first time, if you haven't seen the videos and stuff like that, it doesn't automatically occur to someone like, "Oh, that guy's clearly an MMA fighter or a mountain climber."

    14. TFTim Ferriss40:51

        Yeah.

    15. KMKyle Maynard40:51

        It'd be true. There's a, like, a quip that has been profoundly impactful in my life. It was called the map is not the territory.

    16. TFTim Ferriss40:59

        Yeah.

    17. KMKyle Maynard41:00

        And basically we all walk around as these mental cartographers as if, like, you know, the maps that we go and create are our reality, are, are the territory, and they're not. They're just maps. And any map that you go and create can get outdated. It can get, you know? You need to go to, like, do that software update, right? [laughs] Like-

    18. TFTim Ferriss41:17

        Yeah, for sure

    19. KMKyle Maynard41:18

        ... and update your map.

    20. TFTim Ferriss41:19

        Yeah, and it's, um, strikes me, you know, what I've really tried hard to do in the last couple years myself in, in part to get a correct this [laughs] faulty software or, like, buggy software that needs updating, it's really simple. I mean, I, I was told at one point, this is some advice I got on conflict resolution, they just said, "Say less." Two words, "Say less." [laughs] I was like-

    21. KMKyle Maynard41:41

        Wow

    22. TFTim Ferriss41:41

        ... "Okay."

    23. KMKyle Maynard41:42

        Yeah.

    24. TFTim Ferriss41:42

        And it wasn't directed at me, but it certainly applied to me.

    25. KMKyle Maynard41:44

        Yeah.

    26. TFTim Ferriss41:44

        And, uh, I was like, yeah, like, how many problems would be solved in this country and around the world if-

    27. KMKyle Maynard41:50

        Yeah

    28. TFTim Ferriss41:50

        ... if it was just like before you can state a strong opinion you have to ask three questions and listen to the answers.

    29. KMKyle Maynard41:55

        Listen. And actually listen.

    30. TFTim Ferriss41:56

        Yeah. [laughs]
16. 41:58 – 45:03

    Changing beliefs: from Baptist upbringing to broader spirituality—and humility about certainty

    1. TFTim Ferriss41:58

       A lot of things would resolve themselves. What is something you've changed your mind on in the last few years?

    2. KMKyle Maynard42:04

       [clears throat] I think, uh, I, I grew up, I mean, in a sort of, um, you know, in, you'd say, I even, not even really something I've talked about at all publicly, but in, you know, I grew up in, um, with, you know, very sort of Baptist views and, and all that, right? And then, you know, I went for several years privately, like, as a period of, like, full-blown, like, atheism, you know? And it was like it's kind of secretly harbored some, you know, sort of degree of spirituality. And really it was after, like, a trip to Thailand and sort of became interested in, like, sort of Eastern thought and things like that that I expanded that view to a lot more things. But then also, too, have come back to Christianity and seeing the beauty of, like, the message that Christ taught. And I think that, like, now I think I would still, I, I mean, I, I identify myself as a Christian, of someone that's, who's a follower of Christ, but at the same time I'm, you know, I'm not religious. But it's like this sort of, um- You know, I think it's more broad, inclusive view of, like, spirituality. And I think that sometimes, too, it's, you know, I think that we think that we're so smart, and we've got all the answers for this stuff. And sometimes, you know, especially now, I mean, with, with interesting things, it's like stuff gets spooky, you know, at certain levels. And it's like there's some other interesting answers and implications there that, like, are, are fascinating. You know, stuff that Buddha talked about, stuff that Lao Tzu and, you know, all these teachers. It's like, or Campbell. I mean, Campbell was the biggest one. Joseph Campbell talked about this, like, monomyth and how these different creation stories occurred with very similar structures around the world at different times. And, you know, but as human beings, we get so, again, coming back to this idea, we get so locked into our beliefs that we'll start wars over these things.

    3. SPSpeaker43:52

       Yeah.

    4. KMKyle Maynard43:53

       And, like, we will literally kill millions of people off of, like, a lot of this, this stuff that we g- hold onto. And that's why I wanna, I mean, bring this idea that, like, really kinda not knowing, I think, is the better place to come from. The entirety of my life was, like, not knowing, comma, you know, but we're gonna figure it out.

    5. SPSpeaker44:12

       And, uh, you know, I, I... When I think to the best doctors I know and how they distinguish themselves, there's an expression. There are a lot of funny expressions in, in medicine that doctors have. So one is P equals MD, pass equals MD. [laughs] So just like-

    6. KMKyle Maynard44:30

       Wow

    7. SPSpeaker44:30

       ... any industry, just like any trade, you have people who are at the bottom of the class, people at the top of the class.

    8. KMKyle Maynard44:36

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker44:37

       So the people at the top of the class, I think, generally have another expression, which is, "We know that 50% of what we think we know is wrong. We just don't know which 50%."

    10. KMKyle Maynard44:48

        Mm. Wow.

    11. SPSpeaker44:49

        So I think if more people walked around-

    12. KMKyle Maynard44:51

        I love that. Oh, man

    13. SPSpeaker44:52

        ... keeping that in mind-

    14. KMKyle Maynard44:53

        Wow

    15. SPSpeaker44:54

        ... it would lead them to ask more questions, as opposed to seek to antagonize, seek to prove themselves right-

    16. KMKyle Maynard45:01

        Yep

    17. SPSpeaker45:01

        ... right off the bat.

    18. KMKyle Maynard45:02

        Right.

17. 45:03 – 48:22

    Kilimanjaro: the spark, gear experimentation, and the deeper reason for climbing

    1. SPSpeaker45:03

       Uh, so I wanna talk about mountain climbing. How did, let's say, Kilimanjaro, how did that come into the picture?

    2. KMKyle Maynard45:11

       Uh, total A- ADD. [laughs]

    3. SPSpeaker45:14

       [laughs]

    4. KMKyle Maynard45:14

       It's the best explanation I have for it.

    5. SPSpeaker45:16

       Yeah. [laughs]

    6. KMKyle Maynard45:16

       Like, it was like I did a CrossFit sectional workout. The first w- workout was a 1,000-meter row and then sprint up this, like, 900-foot stone mountain, and tore the skin off on my arms to get up there. And I was like, but I got to the top. It's like an hour and 46 minutes. I was destroyed, but got there. I was like, "Wow, this is beautiful." My friend, sitting there, and we're talking, and, um, and I told her, I was like, "I, I wanna do, I wanna do Kilimanjaro." She was like, "You're freaking crazy. Like, you just tore all the skin off your arms doing a 900-foot stone mountain, and this Kilimanjaro is, like, 20 or 21 stone mountains stacked on top of each other."

    7. SPSpeaker45:50

       Yeah.

    8. KMKyle Maynard45:52

       And I was like, "I don't know how we're gonna do it, but you know, wanna figure it out." [laughs] So it was, that was, I mean, it was just a brutal beat down from, you know, the universe on every level after that to get to that point.

    9. SPSpeaker46:05

       Now, what did you do? All right, so you had this-

    10. KMKyle Maynard46:08

        Yeah

    11. SPSpeaker46:08

        ... stone mountain, was it?

    12. KMKyle Maynard46:09

        Yeah.

    13. SPSpeaker46:10

        Took all the skin off of [laughs] off of your, uh, uh, arms and legs. So what was the gear?

    14. KMKyle Maynard46:17

        So with that, we used, uh, leather welding sleeves. And I was like, "You know, and this'll protect my arms," until I realized the leather welding sleeve was a lot tougher than my skin.

    15. SPSpeaker46:24

        Oh.

    16. KMKyle Maynard46:24

        And that's, but the-

    17. SPSpeaker46:25

        So it was the leather that ripped it up.

    18. KMKyle Maynard46:27

        Yeah, but it was like, yeah, it wasn't the stone. Uh, but it was like, we tried bath towels and duct tape. And, like, thankfully, I've got, you know, these amazing friends that were sitting and just duct-taping stuff on my arms and my feet for hours, you know? And, like, we tried, um, uh, you know, like, oven mitts, [laughs] you know, like cooking oven mitts and, like, several of them stacked up. And we tried, um, football, having knee pads, all these different things. We finally got smart and took a mountain bike tire and cut that into pieces, and then, like, wrapped it around to give some traction and created this prototype shoe. So I used that, uh, to get up the mountain, and we didn't get the final gear set complete until two and a half weeks before we left for the climb.

    19. SPSpeaker47:06

        What was driving it? That's, that's-

    20. KMKyle Maynard47:08

        Yeah

    21. SPSpeaker47:08

        ... a big commitment, right? And you presumably have other stuff going on, uh, that takes a lot of focus.

    22. KMKyle Maynard47:13

        Big time.

    23. SPSpeaker47:13

        What did you hope to get out of it?

    24. KMKyle Maynard47:15

        And the, the biggest driver there was, um, for me personally-

    25. SPSpeaker47:20

        Yeah

    26. KMKyle Maynard47:20

        ... and it's, it's hard to kind of understand unless you've spent a significant portion of your time and your life in a wheelchair.

    27. SPSpeaker47:26

        Okay.

    28. KMKyle Maynard47:26

        Because you don't necessarily realize how many places you can't get to in the wheelchair. In America, I think that, like, we have the greatest country in terms of, that I've experienced, in terms of accessibility. Um, part of it is 'cause I think we're a fairly new country, right? But it's like the, in terms of the world, um, you know, there's, there are many places that are off limits.

    29. SPSpeaker47:46

        Yeah.

    30. KMKyle Maynard47:47

        And that was, you know, when my friends would go and run off into the woods, I couldn't go and follow them. And so I, you know, as a kid, I wanted to, and I wanted to go and have a way to go and do it, unless I was, like, riding on a buddy's back, and then, you know, we wouldn't get very far doing that. But it was like that was my access into the woods for a long time, or in the mountains. And I wanted to go to nature. I wanted to experience it. I wanted to go and see these places that I'd read about in some, you know, like, poem or something, you know? I'm like, the snows of Kilimanjaro, I wanna see that.

18. 48:22 – 51:50

    Summit footage and a closing message: ‘follow your bliss’ and reinventing yourself

    1. SPSpeaker48:22

       As the ever-present threat of deadly avalanches looms, scree and dust make movement difficult for Kyle. Spikes are attached so he can navigate the icy slope. And Kyle's will to succeed is clear. Nothing will stop him. As day breaks, Kyle Maynard pushes ahead, a beacon of will and determination, showing the world that no matter what, there is a way to the top.

    2. SPSpeaker49:08

       We did it. Woo! Let's do it. Oi, oi, oi, oi, oi, oi. Yeah. I'm proud of you, man. Love you. Thanks for that. Love you. Good. Well done. All right, let's all, let's all gather around. We gotta grab all-

    3. SPSpeaker49:22

       Once he's reached the summit, Kyle Maynard's mission is complete and he can pay tribute to the men and women who've inspired him, who choose to live life to the fullest because there are no excuses. [audience applauding] If you had a gigantic billboard and you could put out a short message, a few words, whatever it might be, to a huge audience, to the world, what would you put-

    4. KMKyle Maynard50:01

       Mm

    5. SPSpeaker50:01

       ... on that billboard?

    6. KMKyle Maynard50:04

       It's, um... I think this time I'm gonna switch it up and go with a Campbell quote where he said, you know, he was asking, like, the purpose of life, and he said it's, you know, and, and I think you could have a debate with this, [laughs] but you know, really, I think there's some beauty of it where he said, "It's to follow your bliss," and that, "Doors will open where there were previously only walls." If I'm attached to this idea of like, "Oh, I have to be this speaker guy"-

    7. SPSpeaker50:29

       Yeah

    8. KMKyle Maynard50:29

       ... then I, I don't necessarily get it. And that sometimes, like, maybe that could be the most empowering thing, to go and give up everything and go and, um, you know, and, and pursue a different path. And I respect people that, that are willing to go and to do that and completely recreate themselves.

    9. SPSpeaker50:45

       Well, I just wanna thank you, Kyle, for honestly showing everyone that they can do more than they think they're capable of doing. It's a huge gift to the world. [audience applauding] Ladies and gentlemen, Kyle Maynard. [audience cheering] [upbeat music] [logo booming] [logo chiming]

Episode duration: 52:10