The Random Show, Couch Edition! — Supplements, Breathing and Balance Training, and Much More!

1. 0:00 – 2:08

   A meditative start.

   1. TFTim Ferriss0:00

      You wanna just move the base? You can. Just pick it up. [base clunks] [ding] You can also pick the whole thing up if you want to.

   2. KRKevin Rose0:07

      That's the smallest-

   3. TFTim Ferriss0:08

      [laughs]

   4. KRKevin Rose0:08

      ... smallest micro change I've ever seen in my life.

   5. TFTim Ferriss0:10

      [laughs] That was amazing.

   6. KRKevin Rose0:11

      [laughs]

   7. TFTim Ferriss0:11

      Okay, ready?

   8. KRKevin Rose0:12

      Oh, wait, wait, wait. So we're rolling?

   9. TFTim Ferriss0:13

      Yeah, we're rolling.

   10. KRKevin Rose0:14

       Okay.

   11. TFTim Ferriss0:15

       Three, two, one. [base rings] [laughs]

   12. KRKevin Rose0:22

       I feel like my-

   13. TFTim Ferriss0:22

       Feels actually really good. [laughs]

   14. KRKevin Rose0:23

       I feel like my bowl is a little smaller than yours.

   15. TFTim Ferriss0:25

       [laughs] It's, it's, it's always been, it's always been the case.

   16. KRKevin Rose0:27

       [laughs]

   17. TFTim Ferriss0:29

       [laughs]

   18. KRKevin Rose0:29

       You wanna kick it off?

   19. TFTim Ferriss0:30

       Hello, friends and family, colleagues, uh-

   20. KRKevin Rose0:34

       That was amazing

   21. TFTim Ferriss0:35

       ... very prominent ejaculation projection.

   22. KRKevin Rose0:37

       Welcome to the Lorana Show.

   23. TFTim Ferriss0:39

       Welcome, folks, to another episode of the Lorana Show.

   24. KRKevin Rose0:41

       Yes.

   25. TFTim Ferriss0:42

       Couch audition edition.

   26. KRKevin Rose0:43

       That's right. ADU back of my place-

   27. TFTim Ferriss0:47

       Yeah

   28. KRKevin Rose0:47

       ... edition.

   29. TFTim Ferriss0:48

       Why do we have these fancy bowls?

   30. KRKevin Rose0:50

       So this is-
2. 2:08 – 3:59

   Reflecting on our second Zen retreat in Santa Fe with Henry Shukman.

   1. KRKevin Rose2:08

      Where should we start off, man?

   2. TFTim Ferriss2:09

      Well, so-

   3. KRKevin Rose2:09

      We got tons

   4. TFTim Ferriss2:10

      ... we just came back from our retreat.

   5. KRKevin Rose2:11

      We did. We did. You wanna describe the, the format?

   6. TFTim Ferriss2:14

      Yeah, so we've done a couple of these retreats. This is the second one, where it's just a small group of people that are interested in meditation and that wanna go a little bit deeper in the world of Zen. You know, you and I both have talked about The Way and Henry Shukman a ton, The Way being his app, and Henry's just a great leader, a great Zen master, and it was accompanied by Valerie, another Zen master, and-

   7. KRKevin Rose2:38

      This was at Mountain Cloud

   8. TFTim Ferriss2:39

      ... at Mountain Cloud Zen Center in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

   9. KRKevin Rose2:41

      In Santa Fe.

   10. TFTim Ferriss2:41

       So we flew out there, small group, got together, and it's kind of like if, if a, if a proper Zen retreat is, like, 5:30 cushion in the morning and then you're off at 7:00 PM, and it's hardcore, like no talking, shitty food, this was not that. [laughs] Like, this was, we had a good, good chef that was there, and we were allowed to ask questions in between sits. The sits were purposely kind of time-bound, to call it maximum of 25 minutes, and then a walking meditation, then another 25 minutes. That was, like, kind of the max.

   11. KRKevin Rose3:17

       Yeah. Let me, let me interject, just so we don't get into hyper bougie territory-

   12. TFTim Ferriss3:20

       Yeah

   13. KRKevin Rose3:20

       ... too fast. So the chef was not our chef. [laughs] He's actually, as I remember, this is a former, I think, James Beard Award winner-

   14. TFTim Ferriss3:29

       Yeah

   15. KRKevin Rose3:29

       ... who decided to forgo the accolades and the attention.

   16. TFTim Ferriss3:33

       How is that less bougie than what I was gonna say?

   17. KRKevin Rose3:35

       Well, you said we had a, like, a, a, a nice chef, and people might assume that we're, like, bringing in a chef. This is a chef who actually-

   18. TFTim Ferriss3:43

       He lives there locally

   19. KRKevin Rose3:44

       ... lives ... I know. That's the point I'm making.

   20. TFTim Ferriss3:45

       Okay. [laughs]

   21. KRKevin Rose3:46

       He lives at the Zen center and has chosen a life of simplicity working with local ingredients and so on.

   22. TFTim Ferriss3:51

       Yeah.

   23. KRKevin Rose3:52

       And he is also normally there. It's not like we had our own dedicated-

   24. TFTim Ferriss3:55

       That's right

   25. KRKevin Rose3:55

       ... chef.

   26. TFTim Ferriss3:56

       That's right. That's only in Tim's house. [laughs]

   27. KRKevin Rose3:57

       That's only in my house. I

3. 3:59 – 7:59

   Ketone liver warnings and eggplant allergies: The perils of raiding Kevin's fridge.

   1. KRKevin Rose3:59

      eat, I eat venison jerky sticks most of the time.

   2. TFTim Ferriss4:01

      [laughs] And lentil-

   3. KRKevin Rose4:03

      Lentils. Lentils out of a can.

   4. TFTim Ferriss4:04

      Still, it's good.

   5. KRKevin Rose4:04

      And you chugged my freaking ketones about five minutes ago.

   6. TFTim Ferriss4:07

      Oh, yeah.

   7. KRKevin Rose4:07

      Tim, Tim just goes to my fridge and he's like, "Okay, what do you have, too?" And you're like, "Okay, I-

   8. TFTim Ferriss4:11

      I wanna see what Kevin's up to. I wanna see the evidence.

   9. KRKevin Rose4:12

      He's like, "Okay, we got a little semaglutide here. We got some Virpatha."

   10. TFTim Ferriss4:15

       Virpatha. What else you got?

   11. KRKevin Rose4:15

       He's like, "Ooh, ketones," and he starts chugging my, my ketone esters. [laughs]

   12. TFTim Ferriss4:19

       Well, yeah, I unwrapped it, and I was like, "I probably should ask if I can drink this, but I'm guessing this has been in there for weeks."

   13. KRKevin Rose4:24

       Dude, I don't ... That stuff that you drank is, like-

   14. TFTim Ferriss4:27

       Yeah

   15. KRKevin Rose4:27

       ... so they make several ver- versions of that.

   16. TFTim Ferriss4:29

       Yeah.

   17. KRKevin Rose4:30

       That's, like, the full on, I'm wanting ... Uh, F16 isn't even the latest fighter jet.

   18. TFTim Ferriss4:35

       Yes.

   19. KRKevin Rose4:35

       Whatever the gen five fighter jet is, F22, ri-

   20. TFTim Ferriss4:37

       It's the highest intensity.

   21. KRKevin Rose4:38

       Yeah.

   22. TFTim Ferriss4:38

       This is the Delta G brand Ketone Monoester, which is BHB, which is kind of what you want, bound with something called 1,3-butanediol, which I will say if you see that on the ingredient list of your supplement for exogenous ketones, treat it like a shot of tequila. You really wanna use it in moderation. There's mounting evidence that it's pretty unhealthy for your liver. So just use in moderation in terms of ketone supplementation. But, hey, right before a podcast-

   23. KRKevin Rose5:10

       Yeah

   24. TFTim Ferriss5:10

       ... it's a great time for me to take, like, 15 grams. I will not do 30 because, and I talked to, she'll probably come up again, our mutual friend, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, about this. I don't think I'm talking out of school here. But when you take, when I take, and this is true for her as well, and I suspect other people, the full 30, like the entire shot, rather than decreasing anxiety, it actually, for me, spikes it, and I think that could be related to a very rapid rise and then trough-

   25. KRKevin Rose5:38

       Right

   26. TFTim Ferriss5:39

       ... afterwards, but who knows? The point is keep it moderate.

   27. KRKevin Rose5:43

       Y- you're the first person to tell me that it impacts liver function.

   28. TFTim Ferriss5:47

       Mm-hmm.

   29. KRKevin Rose5:47

       And I have more often than not had elevated liver enzymes-

   30. TFTim Ferriss5:52

       Mm-hmm
4. 7:59 – 13:49

   "Just be still" — three simple words that miraculously shut down my OCD.

   1. TFTim Ferriss7:59

      So the retreat, let's finish that off real quick.

   2. KRKevin Rose8:01

      Yep.

   3. TFTim Ferriss8:01

      So we got together. What did you learn this time around? 'Cause we've done this twice. You've dabbled in the world of Zen.

   4. KRKevin Rose8:07

      Mm-hmm.

   5. TFTim Ferriss8:07

      You've always said, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but meditation's been a hard thing for you typically.

   6. KRKevin Rose8:12

      Mm-hmm.

   7. TFTim Ferriss8:13

      W- where are you now with your practice?

   8. KRKevin Rose8:15

      Well, what I would say is, you know, first thing, speaking as a very much still a novice on any level, I would say that meditation is kinda like sports or exercise. It's like, do you like exercise? Like, well, what kind of exercise, right? Meditation, there's so many different ways-

   9. TFTim Ferriss8:32

      Right

   10. KRKevin Rose8:32

       ... to meditate or explore mindfulness. There's the Vipassana approach. There's transcendental meditation. There's Zen, which is very much its own thing, right? And you know more about that than I do. But what I do find helpful about the retreats is you can describe what is going on when you're sitting still with your eyes closed trying to focus on something, in the case of, say, the breath, or trying to just observe whatever comes up.

   11. TFTim Ferriss9:01

       Mm-hmm.

   12. KRKevin Rose9:02

       And the feedback that you get from someone like Henry or Valerie where you can do a 25-minute sit and then take a short break, talk about it, and they can say, "Well, given that you experienced this, this, maybe you had restlessness. Maybe you had," in my case, "this sort of planning compulsion," right?

   13. TFTim Ferriss9:23

       Mm-hmm.

   14. KRKevin Rose9:24

       So rather than memories or fantasies about who knows what, not necessarily [laughs] gonna run wild with that. But I default to plans, like things I need to do.

   15. TFTim Ferriss9:36

       Right.

   16. KRKevin Rose9:36

       And it's like, okay, well, if that's coming up, then Henry might say, "Why don't you try in the next sit," which we're gonna do in 10 minutes or 5 minutes, "A, B, or C?" And then you do it and you provide feedback. And so you're able to really polish the stone moving forward. And similar, I suppose, to a lot of what we might call transcendental experiences, which sounds fancy, but it's really just perhaps not fixating on the self or interrogating what this thing is that we call the self-

   17. TFTim Ferriss10:05

       Mm-hmm

   18. KRKevin Rose10:06

       ... which you can do through meditation.

   19. TFTim Ferriss10:07

       Mm-hmm.

   20. KRKevin Rose10:07

       You can also do it with, or maybe you're forced to do it in some cases, with psychedelic experiences or other things, breathwork. When I was there at the retreat, you might remember this, I was getting very frustrated and I was like, "Where is all this frustration coming from?"

   21. TFTim Ferriss10:20

       Yeah.

   22. KRKevin Rose10:21

       And while I was there, I was like, "I don't know how much I'm getting out of this right now."

   23. TFTim Ferriss10:26

       Mm-hmm.

   24. KRKevin Rose10:27

       But when I got back to, quote-unquote, "real life" in Austin, I had like three to five days of this just kind of blissful, calm attention where I was able to get everything done that I needed to get done. There was no rushing.

   25. TFTim Ferriss10:41

       Mm.

   26. KRKevin Rose10:42

       There was no looping and any kind of future tripping, and I was like, "Well, that's very interesting." And it also holds true for, say, breathwork, psychedelics. There are many different things that you could look at. And interestingly, maybe this is one way to think of it, I mean, in a sense, there are a lot of parallels between different methods for entering what people might consider a trance state, and I don't think meditation is exempt from that depending on what it is.

   27. TFTim Ferriss11:11

       Mm-hmm.

   28. KRKevin Rose11:11

       But if it's a concentration practice-

   29. TFTim Ferriss11:13

       Mm-hmm

   30. KRKevin Rose11:13

       ... it's like for sure you're using a mantra or you're using something you're repeating in the case of-
5. 13:49 – 17:14

   Is meditation secretly vagus nerve stimulation?

   1. KRKevin Rose13:49

      So I came out of the retreat thinking, you know what? Something along the lines of transcendental meditation, not necessarily with that branding, but using a koan.

   2. TFTim Ferriss14:00

      Mm-hmm.

   3. KRKevin Rose14:00

      Using just be still-

   4. TFTim Ferriss14:02

      Mm-hmm

   5. KRKevin Rose14:02

      ... as a concentration practice that I repeat really gives me a lot of payoff. If I just sit still for 10 to 20 minutes twice a day... Can I tell you my theory on this?

   6. TFTim Ferriss14:13

      No.

   7. KRKevin Rose14:15

      So my, my, one of my theories, because I've been going super deep on bioelectric medicine and different ways-

   8. TFTim Ferriss14:21

      Yeah

   9. KRKevin Rose14:22

      ... of using electricity in place of pills, basically, and medications, which I think is really the next frontier in a million different ways. People should check out Michael Levin at Tufts and some of the crazy stuff he's able to do. But related to meditation, I did this deep dive with someone named Kevin Tracey, who's very credible scientist, very widely cited, helped discover and explore a lot related to TNF alpha and all sorts of things.

   10. TFTim Ferriss14:53

       Hmm.

   11. KRKevin Rose14:53

       And he is incredibly knowledgeable of vagus nerve stimulation. Not the bogus bullshit kind-

   12. TFTim Ferriss15:01

       Mm-hmm

   13. KRKevin Rose15:02

       ... which is 99.9% of what you see on the internet.

   14. TFTim Ferriss15:04

       Yeah, yeah.

   15. KRKevin Rose15:05

       But using, say, implants the size of an Omega-3 capsule in the neck, which is where the biggest nerves run. It's really like two transcontinental cables running down either side of the neck. Each one has about 100,000 fibers, and if you put an implant in that's giving continuous stimulation on and off, on and off, it's not 24/7, it's incredibly effective for things like rheumatoid arthritis.

   16. TFTim Ferriss15:30

       Hmm.

   17. KRKevin Rose15:30

       And actually was FDA approved. It was on the cover of The New York Times-

   18. TFTim Ferriss15:33

       Holy shit

   19. KRKevin Rose15:34

       ... the day that I interviewed him. And that raised the question, how? Why? What's going on? And it just so happens when you stimulate the vagus nerve, you activate something called the inflammatory reflex, and you can, in effect, prevent damaging cytokine storms, decrease systemic inflammation of all different types. That word inflammation is kind of a umbrella term for a thousand d- million different things. And I remember chatting with one of my friends who's a professor. He was using the Ten Percent Happier app by Dan Harris.

   20. TFTim Ferriss16:07

       Mm-hmm.

   21. KRKevin Rose16:07

       And he was meditating twice a day, and then after like one or two weeks, he's like, all of his aches, which are debilitating, like he had a lot of musculoskeletal issues, they just went away. And one way people might try to explain that is like, "Well, you're becoming more present to your feelings."

   22. TFTim Ferriss16:24

       Right.

   23. KRKevin Rose16:24

       "And maybe it was psychosomatic."

   24. TFTim Ferriss16:26

       Right.

   25. KRKevin Rose16:26

       But I think it might actually be when you sit still and you inherently end up breathing rhythmically, because you can also stimulate your vagus nerve-

   26. TFTim Ferriss16:36

       Mm-hmm

   27. KRKevin Rose16:36

       ... with, say, box breathing and other things.

   28. TFTim Ferriss16:38

       Mm-hmm.

   29. KRKevin Rose16:39

       That you do that twice a day. If you were to use an implant or let's just say either ear-based or neck-based stimulation of the vagus nerve, guess how long it lasts? Roughly 12 hours. So you do it twice a day, you're getting full coverage.

   30. TFTim Ferriss16:52

       Oh, interesting.
6. 17:14 – 22:01

   DIY vagus nerve stim for $25 vs. Kevin's $900 ear clip.

   1. KRKevin Rose17:14

      from meditation.

   2. TFTim Ferriss17:14

      That's fascinating. So I bought one of the vagus nerve stimulators that hooks onto my ear.

   3. KRKevin Rose17:19

      Mm-hmm.

   4. TFTim Ferriss17:19

      Have you seen that one? And you feel like this little tiny pulse of current that's happening.

   5. KRKevin Rose17:23

      Yeah. People who are not watching this may have trouble envisioning this, but I'm actually in communication with a couple of scientists in Scandinavia. I don't wanna dox this guy 'cause I don't think he's public with it yet, but there are two ways currently, non-invasively, to s- to stimulate the vagus nerve-

   6. TFTim Ferriss17:41

      Mm-hmm

   7. KRKevin Rose17:42

      ... that are commonly known. One is the neck, where you really like press some type of device. There are a number of them out there, mostly used for migraines or cluster headaches. It's pretty unpleasant. Like, you stimulate the neck and it activates the superficial muscles-

   8. TFTim Ferriss17:56

      Oh, yeah

   9. KRKevin Rose17:56

      ... in your face, and it pulls your face down. And I used one of those for probably four to six weeks. Didn't see any systemic benefits. A friend of mine doubled his HRV using one of those devices.

   10. TFTim Ferriss18:11

       Hmm.

   11. KRKevin Rose18:11

       Like from, he, he had some, I'm not gonna call it PTSD, but he had some overactive sympathetic drive.

   12. TFTim Ferriss18:18

       Mm-hmm.

   13. KRKevin Rose18:20

       The vagus nerve stimulation is associated with the rest and digest parasympathetic

   14. TFTim Ferriss18:24

       Mm-hmm

   15. KRKevin Rose18:25

       Okay, which is also why right now I stimulate before bed, five minutes twice a day

   16. TFTim Ferriss18:29

       Right [laughs]

   17. KRKevin Rose18:30

       For, [laughs] for the ear-

   18. TFTim Ferriss18:32

       Jesus Christ

   19. KRKevin Rose18:33

       For the-

   20. TFTim Ferriss18:33

       No, I mean, I ... Talking about the device [laughs]

   21. KRKevin Rose18:36

       For, for the ear, there's something called the cymba concha, think I'm pronouncing that correctly.

   22. TFTim Ferriss18:40

       Yeah

   23. KRKevin Rose18:40

       If you ... And people can see, most of the research has been-

   24. TFTim Ferriss18:42

       This, this little bit right here?

   25. KRKevin Rose18:43

       Most ... Right here.

   26. TFTim Ferriss18:45

       Okay

   27. KRKevin Rose18:45

       And you can look this up online. You kinda want the, the, the portion of the cymba concha that is closer to your sideburns, let's say.

   28. TFTim Ferriss18:53

       Okay

   29. KRKevin Rose18:54

       And then you need another piece that is grounding and/or completing the circuit, and that's gotta be touching your skin. The contact point is incredibly important.

   30. TFTim Ferriss19:03

       Are there any of these that you like that are consumer available? 'Cause a lot of the stuff, like you, you mentioned-
7. 22:01 – 25:04

   HeartMath and watching your HRV move in real time.

   1. TFTim Ferriss22:01

      Yeah.

   2. KRKevin Rose22:01

      All right. What are we looking at?

   3. TFTim Ferriss22:02

      So this ... Have you ever heard of HeartMath?

   4. KRKevin Rose22:04

      I have heard of HeartMath

   5. TFTim Ferriss22:05

      Okay.

   6. KRKevin Rose22:05

      Yeah.

   7. TFTim Ferriss22:06

      I went to a little mini retreat where they were doing, like, a bunch of different modalities in terms of different therapies and things to, like, just really b- let you be the best version of yourself. And one of the things that they did was they gave you a HeartMath device, and they had a whole class on it.

   8. KRKevin Rose22:21

      Mm

   9. TFTim Ferriss22:21

      And I was like, "Yeah, I heard of that thing before. I never tried it." And so I hooked it up to my ear, and it measures your HRV. But what, what blew my mind was that the app, once you launch it, it's like, "Follow this box breathing, and we're gonna watch ... You get to watch your HRV in real time."

   10. KRKevin Rose22:37

       Yeah

   11. TFTim Ferriss22:37

       And dude, it ... When I followed it just as, as it was telling me what to do, the HRV just, like, shot up.

   12. KRKevin Rose22:43

       Yeah

   13. TFTim Ferriss22:43

       And then I would try and trick it, and I'd be like ... I'd follow it, but I'd think of something really stressful, and my HRV would go down. So there ... I'm telling you, this is the coolest device I have owned in a while, and you lock into this coherence mode as you do this breathing. And it's, it's pretty awesome. It's 250 bucks. I'm not an investor or anything, but heartmath.com

   14. KRKevin Rose23:03

       Heartmath.com. Yeah

   15. TFTim Ferriss23:04

       And a 60-day money back guarantee, and-

   16. KRKevin Rose23:06

       [laughs]

   17. TFTim Ferriss23:07

       Well, I, I wanna say that because I, I hate recommending stuff

   18. KRKevin Rose23:10

       Affiliate code Kevin 40%. [laughs]

   19. TFTim Ferriss23:12

       [laughs] Exactly. Tim, Tim, uh, 20% off. Uh, I, I hate recommending stuff when s-

   20. KRKevin Rose23:17

       Yeah

   21. TFTim Ferriss23:17

       ... people spend their money and ... but I will say this was the one, one thing that I was really-

   22. KRKevin Rose23:20

       I've heard good things about HeartMath

   23. TFTim Ferriss23:21

       Yeah

   24. KRKevin Rose23:21

       I don't know who's involved. I did ... Maybe you didn't know this. For a period of time, uh, maybe it was about three months, I did training for this specifically bef- I think it was before any retail options were available with a doctor named Leah Lagos, who has a book about this, and we actually in real time would do a video call and identify what type of breathing specifically would have, in real time, the biggest impact on HRV

   25. TFTim Ferriss23:47

       Oh, that's cool

   26. KRKevin Rose23:49

       And there is something to this. There's definitely something to this. I can't speak to HeartMath, but I've, I've heard of it before. So don't worry about the device for stimulation, the point being try meditating twice a day for 10 to 20 minutes.

   27. TFTim Ferriss24:05

       Yeah

   28. KRKevin Rose24:05

       And if you're like, "Ugh, meditating. God, I'm allergic to that word 'cause it gets used so much," try breathing, right? Use HeartMath or something else. There's not a whole lot you need to worry about. Andy Weil has some very good breathing exercises

   29. TFTim Ferriss24:19

       Yeah, 4-7-8. Yeah, so I have box breathing and 4-7-8 on my app Oak. It's still in the App Store And it's 100% free

   30. KRKevin Rose24:26

       Yeah
8. 25:04 – 28:39

   Marching toward 50: balance boards and the end of jiu-jitsu.

   1. KRKevin Rose25:04

      I don't know what else you got.

   2. TFTim Ferriss25:05

      I've got crazy things. I mean, I just had my birthday a few weeks ago, which is crazy 'cause I'm marching towards 50 really quick.

   3. KRKevin Rose25:12

      [laughs] I know.

   4. TFTim Ferriss25:12

      And so are you.

   5. KRKevin Rose25:13

      Getting, getting, getting dragged through-

   6. TFTim Ferriss25:14

      I know

   7. KRKevin Rose25:14

      ... the doorway with your fingernails leaving-

   8. TFTim Ferriss25:16

      It, it's really scary

   9. KRKevin Rose25:17

      ... lines on the linoleum. [laughs]

   10. TFTim Ferriss25:19

       Well, what's crazy is, dude, okay, so when I first [laughs] when Tim and I first started hanging out, like, whatever, 15 years ago, 17 years ago, he-

   11. KRKevin Rose25:25

       Maybe like 20. I don't even know how long it's been.

   12. TFTim Ferriss25:27

       Close to, close to 20 years ago. Close to 20 years ago. You know, he's like, let me like... Every time you walk into Tim's house, he, like, tackles you with some kind of new jiu-jitsu move to take you down.

   13. KRKevin Rose25:36

       [laughs]

   14. TFTim Ferriss25:37

       In, like, the last three years, he's been carrying a ball for his lower back where he's like, "I can't move."

   15. KRKevin Rose25:41

       [laughs] Yeah.

   16. TFTim Ferriss25:41

       And it's like old man Tim has appeared [laughs] and, like, that old Tim that would tackle you with a jiu-jitsu move is gone.

   17. KRKevin Rose25:49

       Yeah. And the gentle art, not so gentle-

   18. TFTim Ferriss25:50

       Yeah [laughs]

   19. KRKevin Rose25:51

       ... turns out. Yeah.

   20. TFTim Ferriss25:51

       But I know one of the things that I wanna really focus on for this next decade is balance, right? Balance obviously is, is such a key thing, and it's the number-one way that people in their, as they get older, in their 60s, 70s and beyond, are actually permanently injured, is by falling and breaking a hip-

   21. KRKevin Rose26:09

       Yeah

   22. TFTim Ferriss26:09

       ... and things like that. So two things to show off.

   23. KRKevin Rose26:12

       Like incredible increase in risk, like all-cause mortality if you're older and you break a hip.

   24. TFTim Ferriss26:17

       Yes. Uh, uh, turns out breaking hips are not good. So check this out. This one right here I've had for a while.

   25. KRKevin Rose26:23

       Don't fall on your ringing ball.

   26. TFTim Ferriss26:25

       So [laughs] I don't... Hopefully. Can you imagine?

   27. KRKevin Rose26:27

       That's [laughs]

   28. TFTim Ferriss26:27

       Smash my face on the ringing ball.

   29. KRKevin Rose26:28

       [laughs]

   30. TFTim Ferriss26:29

       So I'm gonna show you how this works.
9. 28:39 – 30:15

   Tony Hawk snowboarding Hokkaido with screws in his hip.

   1. TFTim Ferriss28:39

      So, dude, I, when I was just in Japan last week-

   2. KRKevin Rose28:42

      Oof. All right, there we go. That's enough. [laughs]

   3. TFTim Ferriss28:44

      When, when I was just in Japan last week, I was out there and I was, I was at this event. Whoops. I was at this friend's birthday party that Tony Hawk's also friends with.

   4. KRKevin Rose28:52

      Yeah.

   5. TFTim Ferriss28:53

      So I was hanging with Tony, and he's like... La- Last time I saw Tony, I was like, "Dude, how you doing?" Because he had-

   6. KRKevin Rose29:00

      Tony Hawk, one of the most legendary skateboarders of all time-

   7. TFTim Ferriss29:03

      [laughs]

   8. KRKevin Rose29:03

      ... for people that don't know.

   9. TFTim Ferriss29:03

      People definitely know who Tony Hawk is, but yeah. You might. [laughs]

   10. KRKevin Rose29:07

       I mean, a lot of people definitely don't.

   11. TFTim Ferriss29:08

       A lot of people-

   12. KRKevin Rose29:09

       Yeah

   13. TFTim Ferriss29:09

       ... know who Tony Hawk is.

   14. KRKevin Rose29:09

       So, so Tony-

   15. TFTim Ferriss29:10

       For the youngsters

   16. KRKevin Rose29:11

       ... last time I saw him, he had a cane.

   17. TFTim Ferriss29:13

       Ugh.

   18. KRKevin Rose29:13

       And I was like, this was probably, like, eight months ago or whatever, and I was like, "Dude, how you doing?" And he's like, "I just got a couple screws put into my hip."

   19. TFTim Ferriss29:22

       Oof.

   20. KRKevin Rose29:22

       And, you know, he had this injury, and I was like, "Holy shit, man." I'm like, in my head I'm like, "Oh, the fucking legend," you know? Pushing himself in his 50s to do... Like, he's still doing, like, you know, whatever, 720s on the half pipe in, in his mid-50s, like fucking crazy. And I saw him up in, up in Hokkaido, and we're going snowboarding. He's like, "Yeah, I'm going boarding today." [laughs] He has no cane, no nothing. And I'm like, "Do you have pain?"

   21. TFTim Ferriss29:47

       Yeah.

   22. KRKevin Rose29:47

       Like, "Do you have pain? Like, do you feel pain? Like, what, what are you doing in your mid-50s, like, doing vert snowboarding?" Like, you know what I mean?

   23. TFTim Ferriss29:55

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   24. KRKevin Rose29:56

       And he's just like, "Yeah." He's like, "My, my wife jokes that I should have a shirt that says, like, 'Always in pain'" or something like that. [laughs]

   25. TFTim Ferriss30:02

       [laughs]

   26. KRKevin Rose30:02

       And I was just like, that is a le- Some people are built like that, though.

   27. TFTim Ferriss30:06

       Yeah.

   28. KRKevin Rose30:06

       Well-

   29. TFTim Ferriss30:07

       Have you ever seen his shins?

   30. KRKevin Rose30:08

       I'm sure they're just like, he looks like a Thai kickboxer.
10. 30:15 – 32:36

    Slacklining and why your nervous system needs sleep cycles.

    1. TFTim Ferriss30:15

       You, and your birthday, when I was at your birthday in New York probably about, I don't know, maybe seven, 10 years ago-

    2. KRKevin Rose30:22

       Yeah

    3. TFTim Ferriss30:22

       ... you had a slackline in your backyard.

    4. KRKevin Rose30:24

       Yeah.

    5. TFTim Ferriss30:25

       And I couldn't do it at all.

    6. KRKevin Rose30:27

       Yeah.

    7. TFTim Ferriss30:27

       At not even one step-

    8. KRKevin Rose30:29

       Yeah

    9. TFTim Ferriss30:29

       ... because it is a very much a nervous system practice.

    10. KRKevin Rose30:32

        It's a nervous system practice.

    11. TFTim Ferriss30:33

        So I found this online. It's like a little home one.

    12. KRKevin Rose30:36

        Yeah, that's cool.

    13. TFTim Ferriss30:36

        Do you have one like this?

    14. KRKevin Rose30:37

        That's cool. I have played around with these. These, these are pretty sweet. So I have not used The smaller ones. I had one between trees. Same company, Gibbon. And just for people who've never played with this, if you're gonna try it, don't do, like, an hour thinking that you're gonna figure it out in one day. You actually, my f- belief is you need sleep cycles for your nervous system-

    15. TFTim Ferriss31:00

        Yes

    16. KRKevin Rose31:00

        ... to try to integrate it. So you're better off doing a few minutes every day, and gradually you'll figure it out. But that's cool. Very portable.

    17. TFTim Ferriss31:08

        Yeah.

    18. KRKevin Rose31:08

        So obviously a lot easier to set up and take down than a gigantic thing between two trees with ratchets and everything.

    19. TFTim Ferriss31:13

        Yeah, exactly. I just wanted to get one because, again, on the balance front, they, they'll have a little QR code there at the end that you scan, and they give you about 20 or 30 different exercises that you can do with it, like the toe taps where one foot is on and you just tap a toe on each side of the bar. And, like, you're right in ... There's this weird thing, and I noticed this in my kids, where they got those little hover boards for Christmas so they can just kind of zoom around, and they're seven and eight. And day one, like, eating shit [laughs] you know? Helmets, full gear. And day two, my youngest is just like, "Woo, shoo," like just flying all over the place.

    20. KRKevin Rose31:42

        Totally figured it out.

    21. TFTim Ferriss31:43

        But they're, but the, it took a couple days of that, that kind of adaption-

    22. KRKevin Rose31:48

        Yeah

    23. TFTim Ferriss31:48

        ... and that muscle memory to kind of kick in, which I think all these things do. But yeah, this has been awesome.

    24. KRKevin Rose31:52

        Yeah. And for, for people who might wanna try slacklining, [laughs] don't get on a slackline really far off the ground, number one. But a lot of rock climbing gyms have slacklines set up. So you can potentially get someone to show you the basic ropes, pun intended, of walking on a slackline over there. And it's called Gibbon, pretty sure this is why it's called Gibbon, because if you see really good slackliners, they, they do this with their arms as they're walking across. And what does that look like? It looks like a gibbon, this monkey.

    25. TFTim Ferriss32:26

        Yeah.

    26. KRKevin Rose32:27

        And you can s- you can see footage of gibbons walking across, like, rope on small suspension bridges. Pretty fascinating stuff.

    27. TFTim Ferriss32:33

        Hm.

    28. KRKevin Rose32:33

        So try it out.

    29. TFTim Ferriss32:35

        Awesome.

11. 32:36 – 34:34

    Bertolotti's Syndrome: My six-year back pain gets a name.

    1. KRKevin Rose32:36

       And, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll throw something out there.

    2. TFTim Ferriss32:38

       Yeah, let's do it.

    3. KRKevin Rose32:38

       Because it's related to rock climbing. Well, a couple things. [sighs] Since you brought it up, so for the last two days, you know, we've been hanging out a little bit, and you have not seen my little blow-up Pilates ball that I usually put behind my low back.

    4. TFTim Ferriss32:54

       Well, I just mentioned it a few minutes ago.

    5. KRKevin Rose32:55

       I know.

    6. TFTim Ferriss32:56

       I know I do see it, yeah.

    7. KRKevin Rose32:56

       No, but you haven't seen it.

    8. TFTim Ferriss32:57

       I know.

    9. KRKevin Rose32:58

       So what's going on? Well, it seems like, and this is not going to apply to most people, and this is a work in progress, so it's not definitive. But I ended up meeting with a neurologist and surgeon in Austin.

    10. TFTim Ferriss33:13

        And you've injected baby seal stem cells [laughs] into your spine.

    11. KRKevin Rose33:16

        No, no.

    12. TFTim Ferriss33:17

        It's gonna be some shit like that. Like it's [laughs]

    13. KRKevin Rose33:18

        Well, no, it's, it's, it, it might apply to a very, very small fraction of the people who are actually-

    14. TFTim Ferriss33:23

        [laughs] Here it comes

    15. KRKevin Rose33:23

        ... listening to this. He did imaging. He used to be in a clinic where they ran trials and studies related to something called Bertolotti's Syndrome. And Bertolotti's Syndrome is incredibly uncommon. Most specialists in his profession might see one or two cases in their entire careers.

    16. TFTim Ferriss33:44

        Hm.

    17. KRKevin Rose33:45

        But he's seen hundreds. And he looked at my imaging and he said, "You may actually have Bertolotti's Syndrome," and he, he pointed out, they had very advanced imaging. It's the first time it came up. It corresponds perfectly to where I point to when people ask me when I have pain.

    18. TFTim Ferriss34:01

        Mm-hmm.

    19. KRKevin Rose34:01

        Or where I have pain, excuse me. And it's, it's in effect where you have a transitional segment, so it's like a lumbar vertebra that's behaving like a sacral vertebra or vice versa. And let's just say it's, like, L5 and the, the transverse processes, I think it's transverse processes on both, try to form a pseudo joint.

    20. TFTim Ferriss34:21

        Hm.

    21. KRKevin Rose34:21

        So they basically lay on bone and [laughs] other material to try to create what is then called a pseudo joint. And if you look at textbook cases of Bertolotti's, you're like, "Yeah, of course that's gonna hurt your low back."

    22. TFTim Ferriss34:33

        Hm.

12. 34:34 – 40:10

    The nerve block test: everything wrong, zero pain.

    1. KRKevin Rose34:34

       And as a way of testing the hypothesis, he said, "Well, let's, before we even consider any interventions, let's try to hone in on whether that is accurate or not as a diagnosis. The way we'll do that is there are some nerves that affect that area specifically. There's no, like, radiating effect or anything down the leg. Let's put in effectively a nerve block and then see what happens. Like, we'll inj- we'll put in a nerve block."

    2. TFTim Ferriss35:03

       What is a nerve block?

    3. KRKevin Rose35:05

       Basically stops the area from transmitting pain signals to the brain.

    4. TFTim Ferriss35:08

       But, like, what, what does it mean, though? What, when you put in a nerve block?

    5. KRKevin Rose35:12

       Well, you, you lay down, in my case, on your face. I hate when anyone is messing with my spine, man. It, it's, like, very ... I've had so many things done to me, and I'm usually cool as a cucumber, but when needles are, like, in or around my spine-

    6. TFTim Ferriss35:25

       Oh, ugh. Yeah

    7. KRKevin Rose35:26

       ... I really get the fear sweats. I don't like it at all. But in this case, that was [laughs] required. So you get a, in this case, it was, I think it was lidocaine, small amount of lidocaine to numb the surface.

    8. TFTim Ferriss35:38

       Yeah, no shit.

    9. KRKevin Rose35:39

       Then they're going through quite a bit of deep musculature. So they go in and then they're putting in, in, in this case, and obviously you need specialists for this who-

    10. TFTim Ferriss35:48

        It was a baby seal

    11. KRKevin Rose35:49

        ... Prolocaine. [laughs] They have baby seal semen.

    12. TFTim Ferriss35:52

        [laughs]

    13. KRKevin Rose35:53

        Um, no. It was Prolocaine and something called Kenalog. And but none, none of those specifics are the punchline. The punchline is he's, a- after he did the injection, he said, "Okay. This particular portion of the cocktail's gonna last 18 hours, and then you're gonna get probably two weeks of effect from the Kenalog," something like that, which is a cortisone shot, basically. And he said, "I want you to do all of the things that you think will most piss off your back."

    14. TFTim Ferriss36:17

        Hm.

    15. KRKevin Rose36:17

        Like, all the things you've been avoiding, which for me are sitting on hard surfaces, sitting with a slightly flexed back, like if you're sitting on a bar stool and you're kind of like this.

    16. TFTim Ferriss36:29

        Hm.

    17. KRKevin Rose36:29

        Any of those. Stretching in that position, sitting on the floor with the dogs. Certainly things like heavy deadlifts, squats. So I did all of that stuff for three days straight. Zero pain. And I'm like, "Holy shit." After having so many specialists from different disciplines say, like, "Yeah, I know you point to that, but that's not the spot. It's actually because there's referral pain from this, this, or this." And just having so many people dismiss how precisely I could point to where I felt the most pain, which, which was consistent over years. Mm-hmm. And for the first time, he's like, "If we look at the imaging, right here, it is exactly where you were- Wow ... pointing with your finger." So I'm, I'm cautiously optimistic. I mean, this is- Dude, that's amazing ... this is the first time in six years. Also, just, like, you have... There are different tools that work for different people. Sometimes it requires multiple tools. A lot of people have benefited from the work of John Sarno, but that school, for instance, in effect says, "None of the imaging really maps to symptoms well. It's all in your head. So- Mm ... do cognitive training and, uh, reconditioning to solve it, because that's- That's the guy that Howard Stern got his back problems fixed through, right? Like- It might be. A lot of people benefit from that space. Yeah. But it's also infuriating to be told, like, every type of back pain is in your head. I'm like, "Really? If I took a ball-peen hammer and smashed one of your- Right [laughs] ... vertebrae, that would be in your head?" Like, I guess technically- Technically it is [laughs] ... since the brain is governing pain, like, fine. Mm. But this is the first time with a very sim- relatively simple but precise intervention. I guess it's been about five days, and it's like I can do everything with no pain. So- Dude, that's amazing ... so what does that mean? Well- Could be the cortisol shot. That's the one thing that's like, hmm. Well, that's, that is going- But you probably had that before, right? Or no? No, I haven't. But, but here's the thing. So that, that's going to have- Anti-inflammatory ... a different... Yeah, anti-inflammatory. It's also gonna basically kind of, for lack of a better term, like puff up the pseudo joint in a way that sort of reverses the chronological [laughs] age or development of that in some ways from a symptom perspective. But the, the... This, this is where, uh, I'll offer people something they can potentially look into, obviously with the help of really, really, really good doctors. If that shot continues to deliver benefits and I can do all these things pain-free, which is the case right now, then there's something called radiofrequency ablation, RFA, which is used to, i- in this case, temporarily completely incapacitate those nerves. Hmm. So they go in, they apply radiofrequency ablation, and that should last for, like, a year to a year and a half, hopefully. And the hope in that case is, okay, with a year, year and a half... And I already spoke, you know, I've spoken to multiple people and they're like, "Yeah, it shouldn't... Even if you resume a lot of your activities and stair step into it that previously caused pain, you shouldn't structurally make that worse," right? Yeah. 'Cause that was a concern. And I think that's an enough, enough of a period of time where you could effectively reprogram your pain patterning, right? Because for years now, it's like if I sit on a hard surface, my brain is like code red, DEFCON 5. Yeah, yeah. Like, you are about to not be able to sleep for six to seven days. Yeah. And you're gonna have trouble walking, and sitting, and standing. So super exciting. Um- That's awesome.

13. 40:10 – 42:27

    Abrahangs tendon protocol: 10 seconds on, 50 off.

    1. KRKevin Rose40:10

       All right. So you mind if I continue my- Yeah ... TED Talk for a second? Let's do it. All right. So, uh, also [laughs] had long overdue surgery, I think I might have talked about this last time, but on my extensors, right? So the forearm extensors. So this would be considered, like, tennis elbow. Oh, God. Like 20-plus years overdue- Yeah ... from a sports injury. And I am back to rock climbing. I'm not great at rock climbing, but I love it. I just love rock climbing. Feeling really good. And if people have never seen something called [laughs] Abrahangs, so like Abraham, but A- Abrahangs, go on YouTube, find this Swedish rock climber named Emil Abrahamsson, so Abrahamsson, S-S-O-N. He is a monster. Very competent rock climber. Does, like, V13 problems and probably much more. Incredible explainer of things and dives into a lot of training. And he, along with the help of this scientist named Keith Baar, B-A-A-R, who I've actually had on the podcast, developed or tested this protocol for improving tendon strength, and it is the simplest, lowest impact thing you can imagine. Hmm. It's basically 10 minutes twice a day. And he does a bunch on a hang board, but let's keep it simple. Let's say you're hanging on, could be a pull-up bar, could be a door jamb, could be, you know, the, the underside of some stairs, whatever, and he's hanging with, like, 30 to 85% of his weight, so his feet are still on the floor. Mm-hmm. Does that for 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off, 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off, and you do it 10 times. That's 10 minutes. And then you do it again later in the day. And his before and after strength and endurance tests- Mm-hmm ... are mind-blowing. Yeah. This is already a guy who we could say is a high-level climber. Mm-hmm. And to see, [laughs] like, the before and after- Yeah ... is crazy. So you don't always have to kill yourself- Yeah ... to adapt- Yeah ... in really, really interesting ways. And that's something I've really, really benefited from, but the lower back has been a limiter, right? Hmm. For, like, the last few months, because hanging from a bar, if I don't engage the abs, it could cause some issues with the low back and spasming.

14. 42:27 – 44:44

    The NUG: a pocket hangboard for travelers.

    1. KRKevin Rose42:27

       So I bought this thing recommended by a friend of mine, Nick Norris, who's also been on the podcast, former Navy SEAL, called the NUG. And the NUG is... It's about the size of, like, a gigantic bar of soap. It's a piece of wood, and it has different depths of grips on it. It's, like, 25 millimeters, 20 millimeters, and you can move it around really easily. And basically, like, you could keep it in a jacket pocket And as long as you have a carabiner, like one of those things-

    2. TFTim Ferriss42:55

       Mm-hmm

    3. KRKevin Rose42:55

       ... that kinda clicks on, y- you can do all sorts of exercises while you're traveling. And at home, I have basically a, a plate loading pin that you can load plates on.

    4. TFTim Ferriss43:07

       Like this?

    5. KRKevin Rose43:08

       Yeah, exactly. So that you can basically do, like, a single-handed deadlift with, with the weight.

    6. TFTim Ferriss43:12

       And so this is the same as essentially doing the hanging board?

    7. KRKevin Rose43:15

       It's, it's similar, right? You're gonna be... I'm looking for the same kinda loading. But what you can also do is take this thing that you can fit in your pocket and attach it to, like, a low cable machine. That's what I was doing in Santa Fe-

    8. TFTim Ferriss43:26

       Mm

    9. KRKevin Rose43:26

       ... actually.

    10. TFTim Ferriss43:26

        Oh, that's cool.

    11. KRKevin Rose43:27

        And just, like, get the weight off the ground, you know, the stack off of the resting position, and then I was doing 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off, 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off.

    12. TFTim Ferriss43:37

        And you only have one of these?

    13. KRKevin Rose43:38

        Yeah, because I'll do one hand and then I'll do the other.

    14. TFTim Ferriss43:40

        Oh, amazing.

    15. KRKevin Rose43:40

        So I'll be like 10 seconds, 10 seconds, 40 second rest. 10 seconds, 10 seconds, 40 second rest.

    16. TFTim Ferriss43:45

        Amazing.

    17. KRKevin Rose43:46

        And I think a lot... Yeah, the, the website is Frictitious Climbing. Uh, it doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, but like friction, Frictitious Climbing. They have the Nug. They have a bunch of other items that you can use while traveling for this, which are really, really interesting. So that's another one that I've been traveling with. I'll let you go, and then-

    18. TFTim Ferriss44:09

        Yeah, this is awesome.

    19. KRKevin Rose44:10

        Yeah. It's, it's just a fun little tool to play with. S- Do not overdo finger training. You do not want to tear a pulley or something in your fingers. So less is more. Less is more. Less is more. This is, I guess, something like 30 to 85% of body weight. Uh, and if, obviously, or maybe it's not obvious, if you're doing... That's with two hands. So if you're doing it with one hand, [laughs] it's gonna be, you know, 15 to 40%, let's just say.

    20. TFTim Ferriss44:37

        That's amazing. No, this is cool.

    21. KRKevin Rose44:39

        Yeah.

    22. TFTim Ferriss44:39

        Thanks. I d- already just ordered by the time-

    23. KRKevin Rose44:40

        Yeah

    24. TFTim Ferriss44:40

        ... you done talking about it. [laughs]

    25. KRKevin Rose44:41

        Yeah, yeah. It's, it's fun to play with.

    26. TFTim Ferriss44:43

        Cool.

15. 44:44 – 46:58

    Craig Mod's Japanese toothbrush and Toaster's cameo.

    1. KRKevin Rose44:44

       What you got?

    2. TFTim Ferriss44:44

       Yeah, so I've got a couple things. One, I was hanging with Craig Mod in Japan, and you've had Craig on the show before.

    3. KRKevin Rose44:50

       Yeah. Craig-

    4. TFTim Ferriss44:51

       Craig is-

    5. KRKevin Rose44:51

       Amazing, amazing guy

    6. TFTim Ferriss44:52

       ... I don't think there's anybody that understands, like, Japan the way that Craig does. Like, in, in terms of the backcountry and just, like, the little artisans and all the stuff that he's into.

    7. KRKevin Rose45:02

       Craig has walked, uh, probably fair to say, like, thousands of miles-

    8. TFTim Ferriss45:06

       Yeah

    9. KRKevin Rose45:06

       ... of different trails and pilgrimage paths-

    10. TFTim Ferriss45:09

        Yeah

    11. KRKevin Rose45:09

        ... in Japan. He's... It's very likely he has walked more of Japan on foot than any other person.

    12. TFTim Ferriss45:14

        Yeah. So he was out here visiting. He actually stayed in this house for a week when he was out here in LA. And I walked in, and he's got all his little toiletries, like, sitting out, you know?

    13. KRKevin Rose45:24

        Yeah.

    14. TFTim Ferriss45:25

        And I'm always like... It, it's, like, sitting out. He puts it all in Japanese order, where it's like on a little, nice little cloth, and it's got, like, all this shit. Like, even the dress is-

    15. KRKevin Rose45:32

        He even dresses like a Japanese person

    16. TFTim Ferriss45:32

        ... Yeah, I know. I know, [laughs] I know.

    17. KRKevin Rose45:34

        So, I mean, he's lived there for 25 years-

    18. TFTim Ferriss45:36

        [laughs]

    19. KRKevin Rose45:36

        ... so, like, that makes sense.

    20. TFTim Ferriss45:37

        But I saw his toothbrush, and I was like, "That is a dope-looking toothbrush."

    21. KRKevin Rose45:41

        [laughs]

    22. TFTim Ferriss45:41

        And I got you one.

    23. KRKevin Rose45:42

        Oh, wow. Look at this.

    24. TFTim Ferriss45:44

        So you can get these on Amazon.

    25. KRKevin Rose45:46

        Okay.

    26. TFTim Ferriss45:46

        It's got a really wide head. He said it's his favorite Japanese toothbrush. It has some-

    27. KRKevin Rose45:51

        It's, so, so for people who can't see it, it's like the toothbrush bristles are almost in a square, right?

    28. TFTim Ferriss45:56

        Yeah.

    29. KRKevin Rose45:56

        I mean, it's very square-like as opposed to being more elongated.

    30. TFTim Ferriss46:00

        And so you get three of these for $11.50 on Amazon. And what does that say in Japanese?
16. 46:58 – 50:43

    Kevin's $92 vintage fire jacket: Blue Heritage Japan.

    1. TFTim Ferriss46:58

       it. Thank you. Speaking of all things Japanese-

    2. KRKevin Rose47:00

       Mm-hmm

    3. TFTim Ferriss47:00

       ... so I am hesitant to give this up. So if you want to get-

    4. KRKevin Rose47:06

       [laughs]

    5. TFTim Ferriss47:07

       If you wanna get a-

    6. KRKevin Rose47:08

       Oh, low in stock. Only one left.

    7. TFTim Ferriss47:10

       Well, hold, let me tell you why.

    8. KRKevin Rose47:11

       [laughs]

    9. TFTim Ferriss47:11

       So first of all, check this out. Check out this jacket.

    10. KRKevin Rose47:18

        Cool. All right. Oh, nice.

    11. TFTim Ferriss47:20

        Yeah, feel how heavy that is.

    12. KRKevin Rose47:21

        It feels like a, almost like a... I know what this is. I know what this is.

    13. TFTim Ferriss47:26

        So this is, this is a fireman's jacket in Japan.

    14. KRKevin Rose47:29

        Yeah.

    15. TFTim Ferriss47:29

        And this is a, a heavy-

    16. KRKevin Rose47:31

        [laughs]

    17. TFTim Ferriss47:31

        ... like, dope fireman's jacket.

    18. KRKevin Rose47:34

        [laughs]

    19. TFTim Ferriss47:34

        It's vintage from, like-

    20. KRKevin Rose47:35

        Yeah, this would be hard, hard to rip

    21. TFTim Ferriss47:37

        ... like, the 1970s.

    22. KRKevin Rose47:38

        Oh, wow.

    23. TFTim Ferriss47:39

        And so I found a store on Etsy.

    24. KRKevin Rose47:42

        [laughs] How did you even think to look for this?

    25. TFTim Ferriss47:44

        Because I love this style of jacket.

    26. KRKevin Rose47:46

        [laughs] Japanese fireman, vintage Japanese fireman jacket.

    27. TFTim Ferriss47:48

        I didn't type in fireman jacket. I just typed in, like, Japanese jacket on Etsy. And so this importer-

    28. KRKevin Rose47:54

        Yeah

    29. TFTim Ferriss47:54

        ... they import, like, the coolest vintage Japanese-

    30. KRKevin Rose47:58

        I'm gonna wear this
17. 50:43 – 52:25

    Podcast picks: The Power Broker and STEM Talk.

    1. KRKevin Rose50:43

       So I wanna recommend some podcasts for people, and these are two that I continue to revisit. One is this, is a miniseries by 99% Invisible, one of the OGs, Roman Mars. And he's got some co-hosts. It is a series on The Power Broker. So The Power Broker by Robert Caro won the Pulitzer Prize in 1975. It's a biography of Robert Moses, who basically shaped modern New York. And this book is considered the quintessential book to read if you want to understand state and local politics, especially power-wielding in New York.

    2. TFTim Ferriss51:23

       Hm.

    3. KRKevin Rose51:24

       And it is, it's a legendary book. It's 1,200 pages. I've never made it through. I've never even really put a dent in it. And then what 99% Invisible does, they walk you through the whole book and kinda give you their highlights. They interview Robert Caro himself, who got to meet Robert Moses multiple times, and they have guest appearances by people like Conan O'Brien, who's a huge Robert Caro and Power Broker fan.

    4. TFTim Ferriss51:51

       Hm.

    5. KRKevin Rose51:52

       It's a wonderful series.

    6. TFTim Ferriss51:53

       Awesome.

    7. KRKevin Rose51:53

       And I think there are 12 parts. I had listened to it ages ago, but they only had three episodes out, and then I just petered out because I didn't wanna wait months for the next one to come out. Now they have the full 12. So that's one. And then the other one is a podcast called STEM Talk. And if I wanna find interesting scientists doing things that I think I might be able to apply to my life or the lives of loved ones, and certainly there's a lot of stuff that's out on the edges that is not yet ready for any clinical applications, STEM Talk is

18. 52:25 – 53:46

    Alzheimer's: A plaque or mitochondrial problem?

    1. KRKevin Rose52:25

       just incredible. And my latest discovery there is an inc- a really fascinating scientist named Dr. Francisco Gonzalez-Lima, who's at UT Austin. One of the many reasons I'm interested in his research is that he has a com- a very different view on neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's.

    2. TFTim Ferriss52:43

       Hm.

    3. KRKevin Rose52:43

       And thinks, as I do, that people underweight and researchers underweight just how critical or how you might think of Alzheimer's as a vascular disease-

    4. TFTim Ferriss52:57

       Mm-hmm

    5. KRKevin Rose52:57

       ... and including mitochondrial dysfunction. And the more I dig into this, th- the less compelling I find kinda amyloid plaque, like amyloid beta plaque, amyloid beta plaque-

    6. TFTim Ferriss53:10

       Yeah

    7. KRKevin Rose53:11

       ... for, for a, for a whole host of reasons.

    8. TFTim Ferriss53:13

       I mean, it's pretty widely accepted now that that is a byproduct of something gone wrong and not the cause of it, right?

    9. KRKevin Rose53:18

       I do think a lot of doctors and scientists would view it as a byproduct. Nonetheless, a lot of the treatment options, like aducanumab infusions or otherwise, are focused on removing plaque.

    10. TFTim Ferriss53:28

        Right.

    11. KRKevin Rose53:28

        But you can remove a lot of plaque-

    12. TFTim Ferriss53:30

        It doesn't do shit

    13. KRKevin Rose53:30

        ... assuming it doesn't kill people-

    14. TFTim Ferriss53:31

        Yeah

    15. KRKevin Rose53:31

        ... because there are risks-

    16. TFTim Ferriss53:32

        The side effects are huge

    17. KRKevin Rose53:33

        ... with the MRI and stuff, and you may not see any-

    18. TFTim Ferriss53:36

        Right

    19. KRKevin Rose53:36

        ... change in cognition whatsoever. But-

    20. TFTim Ferriss53:38

        What do you think of the Bredesen protocol?

    21. KRKevin Rose53:39

        Dale Bredesen?

    22. TFTim Ferriss53:40

        Yeah.

    23. KRKevin Rose53:40

        I ha- I, I don't know much about Dale, so you can illuminate me. Let's get to that in a second.

    24. TFTim Ferriss53:45

        Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

    25. KRKevin Rose53:45

        But

19. 53:46 – 54:58

    10 grams of ketones turns one-word answers into sentences.

    1. KRKevin Rose53:46

       what I have seen, let's just say in the case of some of my relatives. I've got three relatives with Alzheimer's right now. One who's disintegrating very quickly, one who's in hospice, and another who's sort of in the ear- the early but rapidly advancing stages. And if I give... I gave one of them, actually the exact same ketone that I had before we sat down, only 10 grams, 'cause I didn't wanna risk them getting dizzy, which can be a byproduct, and falling. But I gave them 10 or 15 grams, and within 20 minutes, longer sentences, faster speech. This is someone who was giving, like, one-word, two-word responses.

    2. TFTim Ferriss54:24

       Mm.

    3. KRKevin Rose54:25

       And that lasted for about an hour, hour and a half. So if plaques, even if we're talking about tau and so on-

    4. TFTim Ferriss54:32

       Mm-hmm

    5. KRKevin Rose54:32

       ... if those were solely responsible, that shouldn't work.

    6. TFTim Ferriss54:34

       Mm-hmm.

    7. KRKevin Rose54:35

       Right? But I don't wanna be dosing my family with ketones constantly for a lot of reasons. It's like, okay, what else can we do? And this Dr. Gonzalez-Lima has looked at low-dose methylene blue-

    8. TFTim Ferriss54:49

       Mm

    9. KRKevin Rose54:50

       ... and also photobiomodulation using lasers or LEDs, like right on-

    10. TFTim Ferriss54:55

        Yeah

    11. KRKevin Rose54:56

        ... in most cases, the right prefrontal cortex.

20. 54:58 – 59:03

    Methylene blue on Amazon: 120 years of research, zero guardrails.

    1. TFTim Ferriss54:58

       By the way, do you know that they're selling methylene blue on freaking Amazon now?

    2. KRKevin Rose55:02

       That's scary.

    3. TFTim Ferriss55:03

       I know. They didn't used to because they were scared to do it. Now there are supplement companies that are selling straight-up methylene blue on Amazon.

    4. KRKevin Rose55:10

       That's scary. Yeah. Duh.

    5. TFTim Ferriss55:10

       Although the safety profile, like it's been used for a very long time.

    6. KRKevin Rose55:14

       Yeah, it's got like 120 years of research. But if you overshoot the therapeutic window-

    7. TFTim Ferriss55:17

       Oh, yeah

    8. KRKevin Rose55:18

       ... you can fuck yourself up.

    9. TFTim Ferriss55:19

       100%. Yes.

    10. KRKevin Rose55:19

        So in this case it's low dose, ideally plus photobiomodulation, and you're hitting two aspects of the electron transport chain that should be synergistic for mitochondrial function and also glucose metabolism. So that's really got my attention right now.

    11. TFTim Ferriss55:38

        Dude, look at this on Amazon. Look at this guy drinking a big pitcher of it.

    12. KRKevin Rose55:42

        Guy's drinking a, like a shaker bottle full of methylene blue.

    13. TFTim Ferriss55:45

        With a goldfish. Oh, no [laughs]

    14. KRKevin Rose55:47

        [laughs] You know, methylene blue is what they used for fish tanks, right? To, to color the b- water blue.

    15. TFTim Ferriss55:52

        Is it?

    16. KRKevin Rose55:52

        Yeah, they were using it in fish tanks.

    17. TFTim Ferriss55:54

        Well, if it's good enough for the fish tanks, I guess.

    18. KRKevin Rose55:56

        Be careful.

    19. TFTim Ferriss55:56

        Yeah, look, look at, here it is. General disease, uh, prevention for fish.

    20. KRKevin Rose56:00

        Oh, disease prevention. Well, you know.

    21. TFTim Ferriss56:01

        If it works for fish.

    22. KRKevin Rose56:02

        Well, those pet stores figured it out.

    23. TFTim Ferriss56:03

        [laughs] Yeah, exactly.

    24. KRKevin Rose56:05

        Be very careful, folks.

    25. TFTim Ferriss56:07

        Yes.

    26. KRKevin Rose56:08

        If you overdo, this is true for a lot of things, you basically have a response curve where a hormetic dose, like a very small amount is good for you, kinda like iocane powder [laughs] in The Princess Bride, or it helps with immune function and so on.

    27. TFTim Ferriss56:24

        Right.

    28. KRKevin Rose56:25

        If you take too much, it has the opposite effect. So you, you could, I believe, I don't, I don't think I'm getting this wrong, handicap your mitochondrial function by taking too much.

    29. TFTim Ferriss56:36

        Dude, look at this. 15 milligrams of methylene blue with 75 milligrams of vitamin C. NeuroPro. I'm not recommending this. This is just one on Amazon.

    30. KRKevin Rose56:42

        It's all over Amazon.
21. 59:03 – 1:02:06

    Bredesen Protocol, APOE genotyping, and a cognitive comeback.

    1. TFTim Ferriss59:03

       Yeah, so, so the, the Dale Bredesen protocol is, is pretty awesome. He wrote a book about six or seven years ago, maybe it's closer to 10 now.

    2. KRKevin Rose59:11

       Ketone Animas, am I right?

    3. TFTim Ferriss59:12

       Exactly.

    4. KRKevin Rose59:13

       [laughs]

    5. TFTim Ferriss59:13

       That's all, all it is. Uh-

    6. KRKevin Rose59:14

       [laughs]

    7. TFTim Ferriss59:15

       Which you tried for the first time today.

    8. KRKevin Rose59:16

       Oh, Jesus.

    9. TFTim Ferriss59:18

       Uh-

    10. KRKevin Rose59:18

        Yeah.

    11. TFTim Ferriss59:18

        N- well, it wasn't exactly that, but yeah.

    12. KRKevin Rose59:20

        [laughs]

    13. TFTim Ferriss59:21

        Um, so the, the one thing I like about, it's called The End of Alzheimer's is the name of his book, is that he's-

    14. KRKevin Rose59:26

        Understood it.

    15. TFTim Ferriss59:27

        Yeah, exactly.

    16. KRKevin Rose59:28

        [laughs]

    17. TFTim Ferriss59:29

        It n- it won't sell that many copies with that title. [laughs] But what he c- came up with is he said, "Okay, listen, the, the, what we're seeing in the brain is the byproduct of something going haywire. It's either blood-brain barrier breaking down, allowing bad shit in. It could be bacteria.

    18. KRKevin Rose59:42

        Yeah.

    19. TFTim Ferriss59:42

        It could be like a whole slew of different things. It, it could be, like you said, an issue with blood flow and it could be, what did you call it? Vascular type, uh, issue.

    20. KRKevin Rose59:52

        Yeah.

    21. TFTim Ferriss59:53

        And he thinks it's like three or four. He thinks it's either vascular, which sauna, other things like that help with. CocoaVia.

    22. KRKevin Rose1:00:03

        Yeah.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:00:03

        Like other ways to make sure that you have vascular health. Obviously the mitochondria thing is another one that he's huge on, and then he also thinks it's, it could be toxin related as well.

    24. KRKevin Rose1:00:12

        Sure.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:00:12

        Like, and, and talking about how to get those toxins out of your body, but his protocol is, uh, that very common sense. It's like-

    26. KRKevin Rose1:00:19

        What is it?

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:00:20

        It is essentially a handful of supplements, which are all the ones you've basically talked about.

    28. KRKevin Rose1:00:24

        Mm-hmm.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:00:25

        Along with, it's like a lightweight keto, so just making sure you go into lightweight ketosis-

    30. KRKevin Rose1:00:30

        Mm-hmm
22. 1:02:06 – 1:04:31

    Photobiomodulation: $30k laser to the forehead.

    1. KRKevin Rose1:02:06

       Yeah. Can I pause for a sec?

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:02:07

       Yeah, yeah.

    3. KRKevin Rose1:02:07

       So that's part of the reason why the, the methylene blue and the photobiomodulation are so interesting. Because, for instance, there's a device that is actually worth investigating on some level. It's called the Cognito device. It's a headset. It was developed by scientists out of MIT, and it's 40 hertz, I believe, both visual and auditory stimulation. In rhesus monkeys, pretty recently in the last year, they showed a lot of plaque clearance enhanced by this, right? But that's still, if I'm understanding correctly, people fact-check this, but that's still predicated on the theory of disease for Alzheimer's, that by removing plaque you get clinical outcomes, right?

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:02:46

       Mm-hmm.

    5. KRKevin Rose1:02:47

       The photobiomodulation ... Well, let me ... Before I get to that, as I understand it, this is an hour a day of wearing this device on your head.

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:02:55

       Mm-hmm.

    7. KRKevin Rose1:02:56

       My mom's not gonna do that.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:02:57

       Right.

    9. KRKevin Rose1:02:57

       There's no fucking way.

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:02:58

        Right.

    11. KRKevin Rose1:02:59

        Right? N- nor any of my relatives. However, the photobiomodulation, it's like eight to 10 minutes, right? Laser or LED. LED is a little harder to make architect-

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:03:09

        And do you have to go in to do that? Or d- can you get a device that does it at home?

    13. KRKevin Rose1:03:12

        I'm gonna buy a device. And I'm not recommending people do that. You can really damage your eyes with lasers and so on. But right now, it's not like you can go to a clinic and be like, "Hey, I'd like to have this treatment." Just doesn't exist. So let me be the guinea pig [laughs] before anybody does anything. But you get this device and it's ... I'm sure it's gonna be very expensive, right? Some of these lasers, like, there's like $30,000. But eight minutes, eight to 10 minutes, and you s- you can see s- even after a single session, you can see multiple weeks of effect.

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:03:43

        Hmm.

    15. KRKevin Rose1:03:44

        Crazy. So-

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:03:45

        And so it, it just sits, sits right on top of ... It g- uh, into the eye or on-

    17. KRKevin Rose1:03:49

        No

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:03:49

        ... top of the-

    19. KRKevin Rose1:03:49

        Well, y- there are devices that go through the eyes, but this one, what makes it so mystifying in a way for me, is that it's, it's actually pointed at the forehead as an infrared laser. It's so fascinating.

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:04:00

        Wow.

    21. KRKevin Rose1:04:00

        And there's peer-reviewed published studies on this, which you can find. Anybody who looks up Gonzalez-Lima will, will find it. So it's exciting. It's super exciting. 'Cause there's certain things, like I know that my mitochondria are funky, right? And I, I know that through different types of endurance testing, different types of, obviously all sorts of stuff done through doctors and tests and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's something funky with the mitochondria. And I'm like, "Okay. Well, let's try to get ahead of that."

23. 1:04:31 – 1:11:38

    Urolithin A and the high price of mitochondrial upkeep.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:04:31

       Yeah.

    2. KRKevin Rose1:04:31

       And actually related to that, to invoke, I said she would come back. Rhonda Patrick also, you know, was texting with her at one point because I was listening to STEM Talk-

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:04:41

       Mm-hmm

    4. KRKevin Rose1:04:41

       ... that podcast I mentioned, and I came across a scientist discussing something called Urolithin A.

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:04:45

       Of course, the Mitopure.

    6. KRKevin Rose1:04:47

       Yeah, Mitopure. And two years ago, maybe it was two years ago, like she was pretty bearish on it, but there's a lot of new research, or I shouldn't say a lot, there's new research that's come out. And also met with a couple of biotech people in Boston who are very r- respected.

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:05:02

       Mm-hmm.

    8. KRKevin Rose1:05:02

       I'm not gonna dox them 'cause I don't want to, but they basically did this like comprehensive analysis-

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:05:08

       Yeah

    10. KRKevin Rose1:05:08

        ... and landed on three or four things, and one of them was Urolithin A.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:05:11

        Right. I take 300 milligrams a day.

    12. KRKevin Rose1:05:13

        300? How do you ... How did you choose 300 milligrams?

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:05:15

        Because that's what all of the studies are, are done on. Or no, sorry, 5- so 500 to 1,000.

    14. KRKevin Rose1:05:19

        Yeah.

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:05:19

        I take 500 milligrams a day.

    16. KRKevin Rose1:05:21

        Yeah.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:05:21

        Clearly I need to be taking [laughs] much higher dose.

    18. KRKevin Rose1:05:23

        [laughs] It's like-

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:05:25

        I've only been doing it ... You think I do it for three months to see some results? So bear with me, people. I only have this club, this 200 milligrams off. [laughs]

    20. KRKevin Rose1:05:31

        The, the, what's, what's a little strange is that, that when you ... If you buy the bag, you can get this on Amazon, I'm not recommending you do that. Jury's still out. But I'm like, "Hey, I want to hit mitochondria from as many reasonably plausible mechanisms or angles as possible." You can get Mitopure. It's expensive AF.

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:05:48

        So-

    22. KRKevin Rose1:05:48

        It is very expensive

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:05:49

        ... yeah, so I was gonna, I was gonna tell people that the one that people talk about the most in this world, that, that has done a lot of clinical studies around it, Urothinal- A, is this company called Timeline, who does, who does a, you know, they trademark the name of it, which is Mitopure. The problem is it's freaking expensive.

    24. KRKevin Rose1:06:06

        It's very, very expensive.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:06:07

        And I don't know, is there another company that's out there that has high quality? 'Cause I want ... I'm not gonna put shit into my body, right?

    26. KRKevin Rose1:06:17

        Yeah.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:06:17

        So the difference between ... But I would like to know, i- is there any company that has-

    28. KRKevin Rose1:06:21

        Yeah. When you say expensive, it's like 60 count is $125, right?

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:06:25

        Right. And you're taking two a day.

    30. KRKevin Rose1:06:27

        It's expensive, yeah.
24. 1:11:38 – 1:14:29

    Recipe for disaster pants: espresso + creatine + MCT oil.

    1. KRKevin Rose1:11:38

       deprivation.

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:11:38

       Holy shit. Good luck. [laughs]

    3. KRKevin Rose1:11:40

       Yeah.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:11:40

       Good luck making it to the toilet. [laughs]

    5. KRKevin Rose1:11:42

       It's... [laughs] Yeah. Don't, don't, don't-

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:11:44

       The creatine jacks your stomach up, right?

    7. KRKevin Rose1:11:45

       Don't combine... Actually, I'm fine with creatine. If I get-

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:11:48

       You told me at one point it was messing you up, though.

    9. KRKevin Rose1:11:51

       Well, there was the story of me... What did I have? I had... I was in San Francisco. This is probably TMI, but whatever. We're all friends here, right? So I was, I was, I was [laughs] in San Francisco. I had my Volkswagen Golf that got broken into, like, three times for change. I was so annoyed. San Francisco for the win. [laughs] And in any case, I had to run to an international flight, and I was stressed out 'cause I was running behind. And I was like, "Well, just before I go, I'm gonna have double espresso-

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:12:21

        Oh

    11. KRKevin Rose1:12:21

        ... 10 grams of creatine-

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:12:22

        [laughs]

    13. KRKevin Rose1:12:22

        ... and then I had MCT oil.

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:12:24

        [laughs] Oh.

    15. KRKevin Rose1:12:25

        And-

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:12:25

        Oh my God, dude

    17. KRKevin Rose1:12:26

        ... a- and then I'm driving on my way to the airport, like, in a massive rush. I don't have time for anything.

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:12:31

        Yeah.

    19. KRKevin Rose1:12:31

        And I lean to do a little squeaker and just-

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:12:35

        No

    21. KRKevin Rose1:12:36

        ... full disaster pants.

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:12:37

        In an Uber?

    23. KRKevin Rose1:12:38

        No, in my own car.

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:12:39

        Oh.

    25. KRKevin Rose1:12:40

        I park in long-term parking and-

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:12:42

        You grab a new pair out of your thing, just wipe and go?

    27. KRKevin Rose1:12:45

        I... Oh, God. All right. Can't believe I'm talking-

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:12:48

        [laughs]

    29. KRKevin Rose1:12:49

        ... about this to millions of people. But basically took the underwear [laughs] and, like, some rags that I had.

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:12:54

        [laughs]
25. 1:14:29 – 1:20:17

    Norwegian 4x4 training and lactate as a brain lever.

    1. KRKevin Rose1:14:29

       And then there's the exercise, right? And so what kind of exercise? I did a podcast with Dr. Tommy Wood recently. Fascinating guy. People should listen to that episode. But 4x4 Norwegian high-intensity training-

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:14:42

       Mm-hmm

    3. KRKevin Rose1:14:42

       ... which is like f- you're basically doing, I guess it would be considered zone four. You're really maxing out your heart rate.

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:14:48

       Mm-hmm.

    5. KRKevin Rose1:14:48

       And you're doing four minutes on, three minutes off, four minutes on, three minutes off, four minutes on. You're repeating that four times.

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:14:55

       Mm-hmm.

    7. KRKevin Rose1:14:55

       And it is very much puke-inducing. It's a lot of lactic acid.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:14:58

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    9. KRKevin Rose1:14:59

       The problem has always been, or one of the problems has always been, that if I'm traveling, stationary bikes in hotels are just terrible.

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:15:05

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    11. KRKevin Rose1:15:06

        Like, they will destroy my knees. They're just t- they're just too inconsistent in terms of settings and stuff. So I was texting with Tommy. I don't think he'd mind me saying. I'll have to double-check with him. But I asked him, I said, "If..." In the conversation we had, I was like, "Well, what are the drivers here? Is it VO2 max?" 'Cause people talk about VO2 max, VO2 max, VO2 max. And he said, well, lactate actually seems to be a big driver. Like lactic acid, right?

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:15:32

        Driver of what?

    13. KRKevin Rose1:15:33

        Driver of the cognitive changes, like the-

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:15:36

        Oh

    15. KRKevin Rose1:15:36

        ... neuroanatomical and vascular changes. And it's like, okay, well, hold on a second. I was like, if that's the case, there are certain ways of weight training, like if you do 20-rep squats [laughs] in slow cadence, or any number of different things, like you are going to be brimming with lactic acid. Could that possibly achieve the same effect?

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:15:55

        You don't think it's klotho?

    17. KRKevin Rose1:15:56

        Klotho's another part of it.

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:15:57

        'Cause klotho has been shown, like HIIT is what creates klotho in the humans.

    19. KRKevin Rose1:16:02

        Well, klotho, klotho's another piece. I don't think it's the only piece. I think that... I mean, look, I can't wait for us to have proper injectable klotho or that lever to pull. But in the meantime, I guess the... Right now, today, right? What I'm saying is, like, high-intensity interval training when you're traveling is not always the easiest thing to do.

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:16:23

        Right, right, right.

    21. KRKevin Rose1:16:23

        But, like for instance, when I go back to my hotel tonight-

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:16:26

        Yeah

    23. KRKevin Rose1:16:26

        ... can I do like s- like a couple of sets of very high repetition leg presses and just basically have lactic acid pouring out my eyeballs? Yeah. I can do that.

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:16:35

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    25. KRKevin Rose1:16:35

        And I can do it in, like, five minutes.

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:16:37

        Yeah, yeah.

    27. KRKevin Rose1:16:37

        Right? It's very sh- And there are a many open questions about it, but that's the approach I'm taking. And what's really cool about the, the Norwegian 4x4 that Tommy describes, and I think I'm remembering this correctly, is that if you do it, I think it's three times a week for six months, you can observe the effects, the beneficial effects, for like five years afterwards.

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:17:00

        Wow. Holy shit.

    29. KRKevin Rose1:17:01

        Isn't that fucking crazy?

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:17:02

        That's amazing.
26. 1:20:17 – 1:26:21

    Blood flow restriction cuffs and schwantz ring koans.

    1. KRKevin Rose1:20:17

       s- so second thing you can do, which I've been experimenting with, which Tommy Wood uses all the time, especially when traveling, is blood flow restriction cuffs.

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:20:24

       Yes.

    3. KRKevin Rose1:20:25

       And so-

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:20:25

       I used to have some of those before my fire happened.

    5. KRKevin Rose1:20:27

       Yes, I've got-

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:20:28

       I, I would blood flow... I got the automatic ones that would automatically keep the pressure too.

    7. KRKevin Rose1:20:32

       Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're not gonna be... You don't have use like a hand pump. I've got the, I'm using the KAATSU.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:20:37

       Yeah. My, my one's digital KAATSU.

    9. KRKevin Rose1:20:39

       K-A-A-

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:20:39

        Yeah

    11. KRKevin Rose1:20:39

        ... T-S-U C4. I'm using the C4 'cause I'm like, I don't want another app on my phone.

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:20:42

        Did you get the app? Oh, I got the app.

    13. KRKevin Rose1:20:44

        I don't-

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:20:44

        That's nice.

    15. KRKevin Rose1:20:45

        No. Like, look, if people want apps, they can. I'm kind of along the Bill Burr lines of like, I need to install a fucking app to use my toaster now? Like, please, shoot me.

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:20:52

        My Hummingbird feeder.

    17. KRKevin Rose1:20:54

        Oh, yeah. We'll talk about that.

    18. TFTim Ferriss1:20:55

        Okay.

    19. KRKevin Rose1:20:55

        Let me finish the blood flow [laughs] restriction. Jesus.

    20. TFTim Ferriss1:20:57

        [laughs] Okay.

    21. KRKevin Rose1:20:57

        We're all over the place. All right. So the blood flow restriction, all it is, it's a cuff, it inflates, and it's [laughs] it causes a partial occlusion, right? It's cutting off circulation to your arms or your legs. And there's a lot of really good science on this, so you c- you can check it out. But what you can do when traveling, and I'm trying this right now... Tommy Wood, by the way, is a phenomenal athlete, endurance and strongman, in addition to being an incredible researcher. I don't know where they breed these people. Like Dominic Agostino-

    22. TFTim Ferriss1:21:27

        Yeah

    23. KRKevin Rose1:21:28

        ... same thing, like 500-pound deadlift for 10 reps after a seven-day fast. Like, who are these people? Anyway, Tommy is, Tommy's a beast. When he's traveling, and he doesn't lose muscle when he's doing this, he'll use blood flow restriction and he'll bring bands.

    24. TFTim Ferriss1:21:41

        Oh, interesting.

    25. KRKevin Rose1:21:41

        He'll just have a bunch of bands. And I gotta tell you-

    26. TFTim Ferriss1:21:44

        It doesn't take much, yeah

    27. KRKevin Rose1:21:45

        ... like I li- I like to think of myself as reasonably strong. I'm not a world-class powerlifter, but like, I think like generally pretty strong guy.

    28. TFTim Ferriss1:21:52

        Yeah.

    29. KRKevin Rose1:21:53

        I put on those cuffs today and I was like, I think I'll just bump it from light up to medium.

    30. TFTim Ferriss1:21:58

        Like 20 pounds?
27. 1:26:21 – 1:29:12

    Hummingbirds named Sunset and squirrel obstacle courses.

    1. TFTim Ferriss1:26:21

       Hummingbirds.

    2. KRKevin Rose1:26:22

       Hummingbirds.

    3. TFTim Ferriss1:26:22

       [laughs] Okay, so t- before we started the show, Tim's like, "You gotta mention the hummingbirds."

    4. KRKevin Rose1:26:27

       Well, I looked at your-

    5. TFTim Ferriss1:26:27

       And I'm like, "Okay"

    6. KRKevin Rose1:26:28

       ... your draft and I was like, "You gotta talk about your hummingbird thing. You're sending me watching these videos."

    7. TFTim Ferriss1:26:32

       Okay. Dude, they're so cool. Okay. So essentially for Christmas, I got my, my kids a hummingbird feeder with a digital camera built in, and the cool thing about it is it charges from the sunlight, and then also, so the camera just always stays on, and then also it detects what, in this case it's a hummingbird but, but they have them for normal birds as well, but it'll tell you the variety of hummingbird that landed.

    8. KRKevin Rose1:26:57

       Oh, I did not.

    9. TFTim Ferriss1:26:57

       And then it uses AI, and then you can name them. And so we have one named-

    10. KRKevin Rose1:27:01

        Tony. Tony's back.

    11. TFTim Ferriss1:27:02

        Yeah. [laughs] Exactly. And we have one named Sunset. Our girl's named him Sunset 'cause it has this beautiful red neck.

    12. KRKevin Rose1:27:06

        Huh.

    13. TFTim Ferriss1:27:06

        And I'll get a text notification, "Sunset is drinking."

    14. KRKevin Rose1:27:09

        Is this the one?

    15. TFTim Ferriss1:27:10

        I got him a feeder. That's the one.

    16. KRKevin Rose1:27:11

        Bird Buddy.

    17. TFTim Ferriss1:27:11

        It's called Bird Buddy Smart Solar Pro Hummingbird Feeder. And it's fun, people.

    18. KRKevin Rose1:27:17

        Yeah.

    19. TFTim Ferriss1:27:18

        'Cause you, these things are so beautiful and-

    20. KRKevin Rose1:27:20

        The videos are amazing

    21. TFTim Ferriss1:27:20

        ... yeah, the videos are amazing, and then they play with each other, and you watch them h- hovering, and you get full audio so you, you see the little tiny tongues, like, sticking out.

    22. KRKevin Rose1:27:28

        Huh.

    23. TFTim Ferriss1:27:29

        It's, it's just amazing.

    24. KRKevin Rose1:27:29

        Yeah.

    25. TFTim Ferriss1:27:30

        It's really cool.

    26. KRKevin Rose1:27:30

        The videos were, were quite cool.

    27. TFTim Ferriss1:27:31

        Then I got the one that is for just standard birds, which has bird feed, like, uh, that comes down.

    28. KRKevin Rose1:27:37

        Yeah.

    29. TFTim Ferriss1:27:38

        And motherf- squirrels are taking it over.

    30. KRKevin Rose1:27:41

        Oh, they're just, they're s- m- mercenaries
28. 1:29:12 – 1:29:41

    Parting thoughts.

    1. KRKevin Rose1:29:13

       Solid. Hummingbirds and cock rings. [laughs]

    2. TFTim Ferriss1:29:15

       Yeah. We covered it all this time, people.

    3. KRKevin Rose1:29:17

       Brought to you [laughs]

    4. TFTim Ferriss1:29:18

       Yeah.

    5. KRKevin Rose1:29:18

       This is the Random Show.

    6. TFTim Ferriss1:29:19

       Brother, good to see you.

    7. KRKevin Rose1:29:20

       Yeah. Good to see you too, man.

    8. TFTim Ferriss1:29:21

       Glad you're-

    9. KRKevin Rose1:29:21

       You too

    10. TFTim Ferriss1:29:21

        ... glad you're feeling better and-

    11. KRKevin Rose1:29:23

        To be continued.

    12. TFTim Ferriss1:29:23

        To be continued.

    13. KRKevin Rose1:29:24

        All right, folks. We'll put everything in the show notes, timdop blog/podcast. Uh, Random Show. It's gonna be one of those. Search for cock rings, it'll be the only result on Tim Dop blog.

    14. TFTim Ferriss1:29:34

        [laughs]

    15. KRKevin Rose1:29:34

        And until next time-

    16. TFTim Ferriss1:29:36

        For now

    17. KRKevin Rose1:29:36

        ... take care of yourselves, be nice, be a little kinder than is necessary to yourselves and to others.

Episode duration: 1:30:02