EVERY SPOKEN WORD
110 min read · 22,020 words- 0:00 – 0:36
Preview
- TMTim McGraw
Take charge of your career, take charge of what you do. Be confident in your decisions. Listen, of course you wanna listen to people, listen to people that know what they're doing, but ultimately you have to make the decisions. If you just coast, you might have a career for a little while, but if you want a long career, you're gonna have to take charge and ownership of it, and you're gonna have to guide it, and you're gonna have to be, have your finger on the button all the time, and you're gonna have to say yes and you're gonna have to say no. But if you don't have a vision about what you wanna do, if you don't have a plan about what you wanna do, if you don't act on it every day, it's not gonna happen. It's just not gonna
- 0:36 – 1:34
Two Tims walk into a podcast.
- TMTim McGraw
happen.
- TFTim Ferriss
Tim, it's so nice to finally meet in person.
- TMTim McGraw
You as well, Tim. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
Really fantastic.
- TMTim McGraw
Absolutely. Big fan.
- TFTim Ferriss
Likewise, and I've not been to Nashville in so long, and it's just lovely around here.
- TMTim McGraw
It's incredible, and it's, it changes every day.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
I mean, I get lost anytime I come downtown. I get lost 'cause everything looks so different.
- TFTim Ferriss
Franklin looks like it's just had facelift after facelift after facelift.
- TMTim McGraw
I know, and when I first moved here in '89, all of that, Cool Springs, all that stuff was still all countryside.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
And I remember land being not very expensive out there, and I didn't have two nickels to rub together. I'm thinking, "Man, if I could just buy some land out here and build me a little cabin, find me a club gig-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
... you know, everything would be great." And cut to two years later, and it's just, everything's through the roof. I mean-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TMTim McGraw
... it's just going crazy, and it doesn't seem to be slowing down at all.
- TFTim Ferriss
You just offered me the perfect segue.
- TMTim McGraw
Well, that's what I'm here for.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah [laughs] , thank you. You
- 1:34 – 3:43
“The song always has to win.”
- TFTim Ferriss
know, I appreciate this tango that we're getting started here.
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
I was looking back. You were kind enough to answer some questions for Tribe of Mentors.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah, your book, yes.
- TFTim Ferriss
My last book, and I was going back to reread it and I looked at your bio, and at the time it read, "Tim McGraw has sold more than 50 million records," dot dot dot, and all of these amazing accolades. And then I looked at the more recent, and it's more than 106 million records worldwide. Your longevity is mind-boggling-
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
... on a number of different levels.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah, me too. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
Mind-boggling to me too, people still putting up with me.
- TFTim Ferriss
And I'm wondering, how have you thought about, or how has your creative process changed over the years? Like, what has, what has remained the same? What has changed? Because there's so many ingredients-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... that you have to get right for you to not just last, but succeed over the decades that you have.
- TMTim McGraw
Well, one thing that doesn't change is great songs.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
That's the first check, should be the first check on any artist's list. I mean, I write, I write for every project, and I've been lucky enough to have some success with some of the things I write. But for me, the song always has to win.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
And wherever the song comes from, that's what it's gonna be. And I listen to songs constantly. I'm constantly listen- constantly writing-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- TMTim McGraw
... constantly listening. I'm hard on my own songs. That's probably why I haven't cut as many.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
But my process is pretty much the same. I, I think material-wise, I look for different kinds of music than I used to.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
I still like fun songs, and if I find the right fun song, I'll do it. But it's tougher at a certain age to sing about, you know, Daisy Dukes and tailgates all the time.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
You know, it just doesn't-
- TFTim Ferriss
Right
- TMTim McGraw
... quite ring true to me. But, you know, every now and then something comes along that's fun and you just do it because you're an artist and you're telling a story and you do it. But I gravitate more towards songs now that not only have meaning to me, but I think people can find a deeper meaning in-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- TMTim McGraw
... in their own situation, in their own
- 3:43 – 7:59
Recording “Live Like You Were Dying” at 2 a.m. with Uncle Hank in a puddle in the corner.
- TMTim McGraw
life.
- TFTim Ferriss
I would love for you to, if you could, maybe unpack for us a song.
- TMTim McGraw
Okay.
- TFTim Ferriss
Could be any song. And what I'm angling for is, of course, the genesis, but also what do you do when the muse goes a little quiet?
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right?
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
'Cause you can't just, as a working musician, be like, "Well, I'm gonna wait a year for lightning to strike." There's probably some process behind it. And I am not a musician, but I'm deeply interested in it. One of my favorite albums of all time is Graceland by Paul Simon.
- TMTim McGraw
Oh, God, yes.
- TFTim Ferriss
And I was listening to his backstory as he explained how a number of those songs-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... came together, and I was just mesmerized.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
So could you tell the story of any song that comes to mind and-
- TMTim McGraw
Oh, wow
- TFTim Ferriss
... and the genesis?
- TMTim McGraw
I, you know, probably Live Like You Were Dying would be a good place to start because that song came to me, it was right after my dad was diagnosed with brain cancer, glioblastoma. And Tim Nichols and, um, Craig Wiseman sent that song to me. They wrote it about my dad when they found out that that was happening, and sent it to me, and I never played it for my dad. He was sick at the time. I just felt that it was not appropriate to play a song about [laughs] dying to your dad who was dying.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
Although, I'm sure he would've loved the idea of having a song that was about him or inspired by him. I didn't play it for him. I had the song, and in his last days, he, he was at our farm, in the cabin out at our farm. That's where he wanted to be for his last days, and spent a lot of time with him. And I think it was right around two weeks, two to three weeks after he passed away that we went to the studio to record, and we recorded in upstate New York at a place right outside of Woodstock at a place called Allaire Studios.
- TFTim Ferriss
I actually know the studios.
- TMTim McGraw
You know, it's, it's beautiful. It's-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TMTim McGraw
... a old Dutch farmhouse and barn up on top of a mountain. Beautiful. We had, like, three foot of snow. We were there for three weeks. We sent two semi trucks full of Persian rugs and, and furniture-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
... and, and just decked the place out for the band and myself for three weeks while we were cutting. And my dad's older brother, Hank, I invited him to come hang with us because, you know, Tug had just died, and I know he wasn't doing very well. So I invited him to come hang with us while we were recording. And it was probably six or seven days into the recording process, and we would start late, and we would go till 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning recording. And I remember it was about 1:00 in the morning, and I had this glass booth built in the middle of the studio so I could see everybody, and there was fireplaces at each end, and the fireplaces were roaring. I had my glass booth in the middle. We were cutting a song. My Uncle Hank was smoking a joint. [laughs] If you know my Uncle Hank, he's passed away. He passed away last year now, but he was an All-American athlete, three sports, played pro baseball for 13 years, greatest guy in the world, looked just like Sam Elliott, but was a pothead from, [laughs] from day one.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
So I watched him, and he was sitting over there, and I just got to thinking. I thought, "You know, this might be a good time to cut Live Like You Were Dying." So we'd fi- just finished a song. We were doing some overdubs. I gathered everybody around, and I gathered Hank around, and I asked everybody what their opinion was if they felt, they felt like tackling that song. So about 2:00 in the morning, we cranked it up, and within... Before the sun came up, we had that song done. And it was so tough because I'm sitting in the booth, in the glass booth, recording the song, you know, directing the band, you know, getting the parts right, and I can't help but watch my Uncle Hank the entire time that we're doing it, and he's just in a puddle-
- TFTim Ferriss
Hmm
- TMTim McGraw
... over in the corner. And then he's laughing, and then, then he starts telling stories about Tug after a thing. So we recorded the song. We got finished probably about 4:00, 5:00 in the morning, and then we just sat and listened to Uncle Hank tell stories about Tug for the rest of the night. And I have to believe that all that magic of that night, of Hank being there, Tug had only been gone for a couple of weeks, and then Hank telling the stories afterwards, I have to believe that all of that went into that record.
- TFTim Ferriss
Hmm.
- 7:59 – 9:05
Sensing when the moment is right.
- TFTim Ferriss
There's so many different aspects to that-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... and each of which you could unpack. When you mentioned it seemed like a good time or it might be a good time, why did it seem like a good time? Was it a feeling-
- TMTim McGraw
It was a feeling
- TFTim Ferriss
... inside of you as you looked at your uncle?
- TMTim McGraw
As I looked at my uncle, it just felt like, that I was being told-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- TMTim McGraw
... to cut this song.
- TFTim Ferriss
Hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
Everything. The vibes coming off of him and what I was feeling at the time, and I think we had just cut something really up-tempo and pretty rocking. And I don't know. It was the mood, the snow outside, the fireplaces, my uncle sitting there. Being so late at night maybe.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
There was a melancholy that sort of struck-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- TMTim McGraw
... at that time. I'm sure there were some other factors that might have been involved that struck about that time. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs] Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
When you're in the studio that late.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
But it just felt like there was a magic in the air at that moment, and we wanted to capture it. And we always like to say, you know, you could have the greatest song in the world, greatest band in the world, greatest singer in the world, which I am not, but you could have all those factors, and it still not work. And, and we always say, "Sometimes God just walks through the room."
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- 9:05 – 11:54
The song Nashville hated that Tim heard his first night off the Greyhound.
- TFTim Ferriss
All right. I wanna pick up on that thread, and then we're gonna go back to some of your family history-
- TMTim McGraw
Okay
- TFTim Ferriss
... because, I mean, millions-
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs] That, that can get convoluted. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
... upon millions know your music, but I think fewer know the origin story. So we will get to that.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
But I also wanna ask, when is the first time when you felt God walk through the door with one of your songs where you're like, "Oh. Oh."
- TMTim McGraw
Oh, wow.
- TFTim Ferriss
"Okay. I think maybe we have some lightning in a bottle here"?
- TMTim McGraw
I would like to say it was Don't Take the Girl, but I didn't feel that way after we recorded it.
- TFTim Ferriss
Hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
Because I never felt like I captured exactly what I wanted on that record-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- TMTim McGraw
... until we finally finished it. When we finally finished it, I felt like we had it, but in the process of it, I felt like a struggle on that song. But Indian Outlaw, 'cause I had that song for my first album, and nobody liked it. The label didn't like it. James Stroud didn't like it. Byron liked it, but I couldn't talk James into letting me record it, and I couldn't talk the label into letting me record it.
- TFTim Ferriss
What were the reasons they gave you?
- TMTim McGraw
They just said it was too controversial, and it was a bad song. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
Just it wasn't country music, and it won't work on radio. All, all the things that they were right about. I heard that song the first night I moved to Nashville.
- TFTim Ferriss
Hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
I got to Nashville at 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning on a Greyhound bus, walked down to the Hall of Fame Lounge and hotel where I ended up staying for a couple of weeks, walked into the bar, and everybody was closing down. The band was packing up, and Tommy Barnes and Max D. Barnes were sitting at the bar. I think it's Max D. Barnes. He's sitting at the bar. The bar is closing down. So I walk in and just ordered a beer, and she said, "We, we just had last call, but I'll give you a beer." I sat down, so I started talking to these two guys. Tommy says, "Do you have a room?" I said, "Yeah." He said, "Let's go and play some music." So me, Tommy, and Max Barnes went up-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
... and started playing music.
- TFTim Ferriss
Within stepping off the Greyhound.
- TMTim McGraw
Within stepping off the bus, and Tommy played Indian Outlaw and I Don't Want to Be There in the Morning When She Wakes Up and Finds Me Gone, which I ended up cutting both of those. Have three more songs of his I heard that first night that I'm gonna cut eventually. But Indian Outlaw, heard that first night, and I started playing it immediately. Learned it, started playing it in all the clubs around town, the honky-tonks around town. When we would go travel and play clubs all over the country, I was playing that song, and we'd end up having to play it two or three times a night-
- TFTim Ferriss
Hmm
- TMTim McGraw
... four times a night because people loved it so much. And I kept telling the label when I was going in to cut my first record. This was before I had a record deal or anything.
- TFTim Ferriss
So you knew it worked.
- TMTim McGraw
I knew it worked. I didn't have any say so on the first album. So when we went to cut the second album, I just... That, that's what we're cutting, period.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
And when we cut it, I felt like, "This is either gonna work in a huge way, or it's gonna ruin my career forever."
- 11:54 – 13:55
The one-two punch that saved Tim from novelty-act purgatory.
- TMTim McGraw
And I think the fortunate thing, it worked, and I think that what kept me from being ju- sort of a novelty act that had this sort of funky, weird song that made some noise, was being able to come right behind it with Don't Take the Girl. So I think that-
- TFTim Ferriss
It was the one, it was-
- TMTim McGraw
I'll forever believe that-
- TFTim Ferriss
It was the one-two
- TMTim McGraw
... the combination of those two songs is what set my career in motion and gave me momentum that I probably couldn't have gotten any other way.
- TFTim Ferriss
How would you describe both of those songs as a one-two punch? So the, the first one, for people who don't know, why was it potentially controversial or, or, or different?
- TMTim McGraw
Well, because it was... And I understood why it was controversial, 'cause it was stereotypical and it was sort of a play on Native American stereotypes.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
And there was a lot of controversy around it, and I understood the controversy, and I wasn't upset about the controversy. In fact, I met with several Native American leaders.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
Some liked the song, some didn't like the song. And my answer was, "Look, I understand what your concerns are. The song's not meant to be that way. I understand your concerns. My opinion, if you need to go after me in order to raise attention and awareness to your cause-
- TFTim Ferriss
Right
- TMTim McGraw
... by all means, use my song for that."
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
If you like it or don't like it, if you can ha- make something good happen from it, then by all means, I'm not gonna be offended.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
And now, when I play Native American casinos, when I meet with the elders or the chiefs before the show, I always say, you know, "I have Indian Outlaw in my set, but I'm happy to take it out if it's offensive [laughs] in any..." And invariably, 99.9% of the time, they, "That's why we hired you [laughs] is to sing that song."
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
So they love it, so it's, it's been really good to me.
- TFTim Ferriss
And what about the follow-up straight, the, the one-two?
- TMTim McGraw
Oh, the Don't Take the Girl.
- TFTim Ferriss
Exactly.
- TMTim McGraw
That song was just so powerful and such a great story. It was the epitome of what country music is all about, a great story that gets right to the heart of the matter, that hits right to the emotion, that leaves it a little open-ended and makes you guess a little bit about what happened. But to this day, singing that song, there are times where it chokes me up still every time.
- TFTim Ferriss
Hmm.
- 13:55 – 14:57
Turning down the CMAs because the song wouldn’t fit the time slot.
- TMTim McGraw
And that song was one of my first stances as an artist to where I wasn't sure if I was doing the right thing or not, but it was my first opportunity to perform on the CMAs after Don't Take the Girl came out. And Walter was the guy, he used to run the CMAs. You remember Walter? They wanted me to do, do Don't Take the Girl, but they only gave me three minutes, and the song's five minutes.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
And I was trying to explain to him that there's no way to sing this song without telling the complete story, or it wouldn't make sense.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
So I actually turned down my first opportunity to perform [laughs] on the CMAs-
- TFTim Ferriss
That's wild
- TMTim McGraw
... because I couldn't do the whole song.
- TFTim Ferriss
Was that an obvious choice, or did you second-guess that choice after you turned it down? You know, the next day or the next hour were you like, "Oh..."
- TMTim McGraw
No, I just, I think it was an obvious choice.
- TFTim Ferriss
It was obvious.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah, and I wasn't too worried, 'cause the song was doing so well, and I just, I just thought, "There's no upside here to doing part of this song."
- TFTim Ferriss
Hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
"It's not gonna do anything for me."
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
"And it's not gonna do anything for anybody else."
- 14:57 – 20:36
Why you can’t let the audience steer the ship when testing material live.
- TFTim Ferriss
So a few things come to mind for me. The first is that in a digital world, or what we perceive to be virtual, folks try to do a lot virtually, and you can do a lot-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... in terms of testing and this, that, and the other thing. But still, if you can get in front of live audiences to test your material, whether you are a musician-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... a comedian, even in my case, as a writer, my, my first book was turned down 30 plus times-
- TMTim McGraw
Wow
- TFTim Ferriss
... by publishers. Not an exaggeration. But because I had taught the material in front of classes for years and years and years-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... I knew that it worked.
- TMTim McGraw
You knew it worked, yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
I knew it worked. That is the only reason that I-
- TMTim McGraw
You had a practical sense that it worked.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
I could see it, and I'd honed it, and I'd taken out the equivalent of jokes that didn't work-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... [laughs] and doubled down on the ones that did. And that still is just so incredibly valuable, having that real-time feedback, especially when you're playing multiple times a night.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right?
- TMTim McGraw
So in your process when you're writing a book-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- TMTim McGraw
... and you're talking about trying material out on people, do you have an idea or a nugget of what you wanna do, and then you just start riffing on it around people just to sort of get feedback?
- TFTim Ferriss
I do. I would say that these days I will often test on the podcast-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... to see-
- TMTim McGraw
Like segments or parts?
- TFTim Ferriss
Exactly.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
To see what resonates or doesn't resonate.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- 20:36 – 28:38
Coping with the physical toll of performing for three decades.
- TFTim Ferriss
So there's the aspect of creative longevity, right?
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
How many years you been doing this again?
- TMTim McGraw
35, I guess. Somewhere around there.
- TFTim Ferriss
35.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
All right, so 35 years. So you have creative longevity. How do you continue to follow the right scent trail, which is very personal-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... and not get lost? Because there's gonna be a lot of temptation, a lot of external-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... forces, expectations, right?
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
So there's that, which we've spoken to a bit. Physically, I know a lot of people are gonna want me to talk about this. I wanna talk about it.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
How do you think about physically being capable to do what you do? I mean, you, you are still performing.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
That is intensely physical.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
I have never performed as a musician on stage, but I s- I know a few, and it's jaw-dropping.
- TMTim McGraw
Even when you're not running around, it's physical.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah, it's physical.
- TMTim McGraw
'Cause of the energy that you expend. And in my case, I can't sit still when I'm performing.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah. [laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
I'm all over the place. But yeah, focus is the biggest word-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- TMTim McGraw
... I think, in my vocabulary when it comes to what I do for a living, 'cause the times where I'm not focused are the times things aren't working.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
And I tell you that the last three years have been tough to focus.
- TFTim Ferriss
With surgeries and-
- TMTim McGraw
With the surgeries. I've had four back surgeries and double knee replacements.
- 28:38 – 32:05
The Four Christmases wake-up call that changed everything.
- TMTim McGraw
after [laughs] that.
- TFTim Ferriss
You know, I don't wanna turn this into a Tim Ferriss confessional, but the pain tolerance, you mentioned having a high pain tolerance.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
Like, blessing and a curse.
- TMTim McGraw
It's a curse, for sure.
- TFTim Ferriss
Because I've had multiple... Just had elbow surgery a few months ago, which I should have had probably 15 years ago.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm. I've had one of those. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
But I just, I just kept like, "Ah, walk it off. It's fine." And, you know, shoulder reconstruction, and I won't turn this into, like, my litany of complaints about things, but-
- TMTim McGraw
I just did. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
But the, well, the back in particular, you know, I've had crippling back issues for the last three to five years-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm
- TFTim Ferriss
... which were precipitated by this crazy accident long ago where I basically caught a huge dresser falling off the loading bay of a shipping-
- TMTim McGraw
Oh, wow
- TFTim Ferriss
... truck because-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... I wanted to prevent it from shattering on the ground, and it twisted my body around and basically, like, tore my lat off of my body.
- TMTim McGraw
Oy.
- TFTim Ferriss
It was a horrifying accident. But I suppose looking back, 'cause I've wondered this, I have a friend. His name is Kevin Kelly, founding editor of Wired magazine, great guy. I would say for his entire life has basically done, no offense, Kevin, no exercise-
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
... except for lots of walking.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
That's it. Lots of walking. He has, as far as I can tell, no aches and pains. [laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
Well, walking is the best exercise you can do.
- TFTim Ferriss
And he's, he's in his, gotta be early to mid-70s now. And so I look back and I'm like, "I wonder what I would've done differently," like, because I had a lot of intense training back in the day. I used to compete in judo and all these various things. Took quite a few lumps from all that. And I look back and I'm like, "All right, what would I have done differently?" And I think there's certain things I would've toned down, probably would've given a slightly different prescription. Would've still been pretty aggressive-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... 'cause I don't know if I would be where I am now otherwise-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... without that.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
So looking back over the decades, right, what would you have changed about your training in retrospect? If anything
- 32:05 – 35:42
What training smarter looks like for Tim.
- TMTim McGraw
somewhere around there.
- TFTim Ferriss
How old are you now?
- TMTim McGraw
I'm 58 now.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah, I mean, that's insane, man. You hear this I'm sure from lots of people, but you are in great, I mean, you look like you're in great shape. And not hitting on you.
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
But-
- TMTim McGraw
That's okay. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah. [laughs] But what has your workout looked like? And I won't belabor this too much longer, but it... I, I feel like mind, body, brain, these are all the same thing. They're all a super organism.
- TMTim McGraw
Absolutely.
- TFTim Ferriss
And the exercise is a fundamental pillar of all of it, for me, and for you, I suspect.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
So what has your exercise regimen looked like for the last, let's call it year, something like that?
- TMTim McGraw
Year. Well, there was about six weeks where I didn't do anything at all, which was almost impossible for me to do.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
And that's probably why some of my back surgeries didn't work as well as they should have, 'cause I tried to go back too soon-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TMTim McGraw
... and get back in shape.
- TFTim Ferriss
That's the story of my right meniscus too.
- TMTim McGraw
I've tried to cut it down to two hours a day. But that, but that includes, I usually walk an hour or 30 minutes to warm up, for my knees to get going, my back. So walking's always my start out, whether it's 30 minutes or an hour, just to walk, to loosen everything up. And do a lot of body weight stuff and a lot of stretching. I never lift heavy weights. I don't do heavy weights at all. I try not to do deadlifts anymore because of my back, although the doc says I can do them light, but I'm still scared of them.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
So I do a lot of body weight stuff and a lot of circuit training, and then just try to do everything I do with intent and purpose and discipline, and make sure everything's lined up properly, when before I never would do that. I knew what I was doing. I've had some good trainers in my life. So I, I knew what I was doing, but you know, you get in a hurry and you fall back and start doing the same old stuff, and you don't think, you don't put your head into what you're doing. I just had to be a lot more conscious about how I move and what I do.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm. And are those two hours all in the morning typically?
- TMTim McGraw
In the morning, yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
If I don't do it in the morning, it's tough for me to do it. And then it also includes, because the older you get, and especially with injuries, you gotta really try to... Your, every advantage you can get. So I do a lot of red light therapy, red light hot therapy, steam, cold plunges. So I do a lot of that. So that's, you know, that's a good 30 minutes at the end of the workout-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TMTim McGraw
... to get all that stuff in, 'cause I do multiple circuits of that.
- TFTim Ferriss
We have a [laughs] similar recipe. And two or three of the smartest athletes and trainers I know, who used to be absolute monsters in the gym-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... I mean, they were power cleaning 300, 400 pounds.
- 35:42 – 47:32
When Tim found out his dad was a baseball legend whose picture was already on his wall.
- TFTim Ferriss
back to that.
- TMTim McGraw
Okay. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
If we go way, way back-
- TMTim McGraw
Uh-oh
- TFTim Ferriss
... I mean, not too, way, the delivery room-
- TMTim McGraw
Back far enough that I can remember.
- TFTim Ferriss
Oh, you'll remember.
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
You'll remember. So could you tell the story of finding your birth certificate?
- TMTim McGraw
Oh, God, yeah. Wow. I'd gotten home from school.
- TFTim Ferriss
How old were you at that time?
- TMTim McGraw
11. I was 11. And Mom had kept in her closet, like a Crown Royal bag that was full of coins, but she always put it in different places, 'cause we were always... 'Cause when I was going, you know, you had the concession stand at school. For a quarter you could get a candy bar back then-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- TMTim McGraw
... or like 10 cents you could get a Coke.
- TFTim Ferriss
Just so people can put you in space, where were you at the time?
- TMTim McGraw
In Louisiana, a little town, Starr, Louisiana, where I grew up. A little farming community. It's just a caution light and a cotton gin. That's where I grew up. And so I was looking for the little bag, trying to find some quarters or something to go buy a candy bar at the store or something. And I found the bag, and there was a box right next to it. I opened the box, and right on top was my birth certificate. And I didn't think much of it, and I started looking at it, and I saw McGraw where had a line had been drawn through it, and right above it, written by hand in pencil, was Smith, which was my stepdad's name. And then it said, "Dad's occupation: professional baseball player." And of course, of being 11 years old and growing up, you know, cert- we were like low, low middle class [laughs] and, you know, didn't have any money, and seeing something like that, it was just so hard to register. It didn't seem real. And oddly enough, I had three baseball cards on my wall in my room, and his was one of them 'cause he was one of my favorite players.
- TFTim Ferriss
Tug.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah. So I instantly called my mom, and I could tell that it hit her like a ton of bricks, and she was at work. And I'm like, "Mom, well, is this my birth [laughs] certificate? What does this mean?" And then she was like, "Oh my God." That's all she said, and she said, "I'll be right home." And then she came home, and we went for a ride, and she told me the whole story.
- TFTim Ferriss
What was the story?
- TMTim McGraw
Her junior summer in high school and, um, her mom had just left her dad, my grandpa, and they were staying in a motel that had a outdoor ... a pool with a outdoor, you know, like a motor court motel, that my grandmother and my mom were staying there. But it just so happened that the minor league team, Jacksonville Suns, minor league team for the Mets, all the ballplayers were staying in that hotel as well. So Tug and my mom met at the pool and sort of dated over the summer. And, uh, when he left, he got called up or whatever and left, she found out she was pregnant. My mom was a dancer, and she had just gotten invited to, to try out for Where the Action Is by Dick Clark, which was, like, his first show, the precursor to American Bandstand and all that stuff. So my mom had just gotten a letter inviting her to audition for it, and she had just found out she was pregnant with me. And then I have her senior portrait that she took, that they always take at the beginning of the senior year, and she had just found out two days before the senior portrait she was pregnant with me. And every time I look at that portrait, I can see it in her eyes. I can see that her whole future had just disappeared in front of her. And, um, she told me the whole story and said that, um, she hadn't talked to him since and hasn't heard from him. And I said, "But I'd like to meet him," you know? So she got in touch with his lawyer somehow, or his, his agent somehow, and he was still playing at the time. And they arranged somehow, Mom borrowed a car from her boss and some money from her boss. He said he would leave tickets for us and have lunch with us. And, uh, we drove there. He met us for lunch. We talked for a little while, and he just said, you know, "I'm not your dad. I don't think I'm your dad, but we can be friends," kinda deal. And went to the game. I had a Pete Rose magazine where Pete Rose was about to break the hitting record that I brought with me, and he took me in the clubhouse, and Pete Rose signed that. So I got to meet Pete Rose. Got to throw the ball a little bit with some of the guys b- for batting practice, and my mom had got me a McGraw shirt made and a Phillies hat and all that stuff, so she had me all decked out. We met. Never saw him after the game or anything. Never heard from him again. So of course I was obsessed, as an 11-year-old kid would be about something like that.
- TFTim Ferriss
Could I pause you for one second?
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah, yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
What were the emotions that you felt at the time? Was there anger? Was there confusion? Was there admiration? Uh, what was the mixture of emotions that you felt?
- TMTim McGraw
I think at the time, I don't think there was anger. I think there was some affirmation in it, because we grew up in a very dysfunctional life. The guy who I thought was my dad growing up was an alcoholic and very abusive to my mom and to me. And then the second stepdad was, was worse than the first one. So we grew up in really scary s- you know, the commercials you see now when footsteps are coming home, kids are scared? That's the way our house was when you'd hear the truck drive up. So for me, there was an affirmation of why I felt like I didn't belong with, with that guy. So it wasn't a confusion. I d- I don't think I was young enough to register confusion. I think I was more ... Certainly, it was more about the excitement of finding out that your dad's a professional baseball player. It certainly in the circumstances that I was growing up in. So for me, it was sort of a ray of light in a lot of ways. So the next year, they were playing in Houston again, and I asked Mom if I could go see the game again. She got in touch with the agent again, said he would leave two tickets, but he's not gonna see us. So he left two tickets, and then in H- it was in Houston, which was the only time I'd seen him play. Cut to the first time I saw him play, he came in and gave up a grand slam. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
The first time I saw him play. But the bullpen is right along, right by the stands. I mean, the stands are to that desk where the bullpen is.
- TFTim Ferriss
10, 12 feet away.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah. You're right there. He wouldn't see us before the game or anything, so he was warming up in the bullpen, and my mom says, "Why don't you go down and say hi to him? He's warming up in the bullpen." So I walked down to where he was warming up, and that was as close to me and you as you are to him, and he's warming up. So I'm s- yelling at him, "Tug, it's Tim. Tuggy." And he wouldn't look at me. He wouldn't look at me or acknowledge me. And so I just sorta dropped it after that. Went back home. I didn't use McGraw. I used Smith. Just sort of forgot about it. Didn't forget about it, but not even ... Only a handful of my friends even knew about it. I didn't tell very many people about it. Sort of then I got embarrassed, I think, after, after that, that I was just, like, sort of thrown away.
- TFTim Ferriss
What happened? What changed?
- TMTim McGraw
Well, when I was 18, graduating high school, we didn't have any money for college. I was counting on sports scholarships, and I had a few, but I was small. I graduated high school, I was five ten barely and 140 pounds. And, you know, getting football scholarships [laughs] and basketball scholarships thinking, "Eh, this is probably gonna work out when I get to the next level-
- 47:32 – 48:16
Important advice for aspiring parents.
- TFTim Ferriss
to a friend of mine. He's got a couple of kids now, now mostly grown. I think the gang is all grown if you think about it. I mean, it's like-
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
... the older I get, the younger people seem.
- TMTim McGraw
Oh, my gosh.
- TFTim Ferriss
But yeah, they're-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... they're adults. [laughs] At this point-
- TMTim McGraw
Tell me about it
- TFTim Ferriss
... we went for a hike at one point. He's just a really sweet, very smart guy, and I asked him, like, "All right. What would your advice be to an aspiring parent?" Me. I don't yet have any kids, but I really am looking forward to that, building a family. He said, "It's really simple. Your job is to love your kids. They don't owe you anything."
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
"It's not their job to love you."
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
"Number two, you have to teach them to be optimistic."
- TMTim McGraw
Yes.
- TFTim Ferriss
That's it.
- TMTim McGraw
Those two things make perfect sense. Your vision of their life and your expectations of their life, don't let it cloud your love and guidance for them.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- 48:16 – 50:56
When Tim pawned his high school ring for a $20 guitar.
- TFTim Ferriss
I have lots of questions about, about family 'cause it's top of mind for me.
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
But I wanna ask you about guitars.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
And here's why. Because I was looking up on the way here Yo-Yo Ma-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... famous cello player.
- TMTim McGraw
Cellist. Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
Picked up cello, probably got handed a cello-
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
... at age four.
- TMTim McGraw
Wow.
- TFTim Ferriss
All right. My understanding is you did not do that-
- TMTim McGraw
No
- TFTim Ferriss
... with guitars.
- TMTim McGraw
No.
- TFTim Ferriss
So how did this music thing come about?
- TMTim McGraw
Well, the music thing came about 'cause of my mom's love for music.
- TFTim Ferriss
Uh-huh.
- TMTim McGraw
'Cause from- My earliest memory of the time I can remember my mom was always singing and playing records around the house, and always had the radio wide open. So I knew every song on the radio, and she would encourage me to sing. She always wanted me to sing along with her on the radio, so I knew every song on the radio. Would sing with my mom all the time. We'd walk around the house singing. Singing in church. I mean, my friends used to give me shit all the time playing baseball 'cause I played shortstop, and the whole time I'm out there I'm singing songs-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
... and playing around. So I was always singing to the point to where my, my sisters are al- were always like, "Shut up."
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
"Just shut up. Just stop singing." And I still do it to this day. Somebody can say a word and I'll sing a song that's got that word in it.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
It's just in me. I can't get it out. But I was in the same category that you were thinking that, you know, the guys you hear on the radio are guys that have been doing this since they were three or four years old. They're trained musicians. They're guys that-
- TFTim Ferriss
Jackson 5.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah, this is something you can't just do unless you're trained to do it since you were a little kid. So I got into college. That's when I realized, when I got into college and went out for the f- first football sort of roundup and see everybody, when I looked around and thought, "All right." [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
I'm gonna get killed. [laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
I'm gonna be meat on the practice squad, never see the field, and get the hell beat out of me, and spend all of my time here. So I ended up not playing ball, joined a fraternity, pawned my high school ring and bought a guitar for 20 bucks.
- 50:56 – 52:03
Learning guitar from CMT videos and fret diagrams.
- TMTim McGraw
So I bought the guitar and, and all of my friends had moved away for the summer. It's my freshman summer in college. I had a job where I worked four hours a day at a plant nursery in the mornings just moving stuff, and I'd come home and just I'd watch CMT and watch where their fingers were on the, on the guitars.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs] Early YouTube.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah, early YouTube.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
And then I would, on music sheets it had these little guitar fret things where it would show you where your fingers went. So I spent a lot of years where my fingers are in the wrong position, but I would still make the chord.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
And my buddy, my roommates would hide my guitar for the longest time 'cause I was so bad, but then when I started getting pretty good at it, they would hide it. I couldn't find it, but when chicks would come over to the house-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
... they would grab my guitar and bring it to me and want me to start playing songs.
- TFTim Ferriss
Dance monkey, dance. [laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah, exactly. So over that summer I, I learned about 50 songs and I just started playing just me and a guitar at this little catfish house called Cock of the Walk, and that was my first gig, and that's how I paid my rent for a while. And by the way-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TMTim McGraw
... I am still a terrible guitar player. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
You seem, you seem to-
- TMTim McGraw
I can play-
- TFTim Ferriss
... do well enough to-
- TMTim McGraw
... write my songs and play places and stuff
- TFTim Ferriss
... seem to have made it work for you. [laughs]
- 52:03 – 59:36
The morning Tim tore up his Marines paperwork and bought a Greyhound ticket to Nashville.
- TFTim Ferriss
When was the first inkling or the first sign, feeling maybe, where you're like, "Okay, I think this could be a thing"?
- TMTim McGraw
First off, the encouragement I got from my friends in college, my fraternity buddies. That could go either way.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
When you're trying to play guitar and sing songs from your buddies in a fraternity, that could go the wrong way, but when it didn't, when they were encouraging me and they were giving me credit and telling me how good I was, to me that was a big deal for a bunch of guys, your friends, to say that when you're just trying to figure it out and you don't even know anything about it really. For them to tell you that you're good and they, they wanna hear you do it, and they ask you to sing all the time. So when I started playing clubs and stuff, I would get good reaction from the crowds, and then the owners would come over and say, "Hey, would you wanna come back?" And, "You know, you guys are the best band we've had." You know, stuff like that. And then I took a military science class.
- TFTim Ferriss
Military science, like strategy-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... and studying past generals.
- TMTim McGraw
Strategy and stuff.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah. And, um, I got to know the instructor. Captain Whitehead was his name. He was an Army guy and head of the ROTC and everything there, and all the guys in the class were ROTC guys, R-O-T-C.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
And anyway, we took the class and it was tactics and we were out in the field doing stuff. We'd spend a weekend tracking, even doing all the stuff with rappelling-
- TFTim Ferriss
Sounds like kind of a cool-
- TMTim McGraw
... and you know, all kinds of stuff
- TFTim Ferriss
... cool course.
- TMTim McGraw
It was a great course. And at the end of the course everybody was asked to vote who was our platoon leader. Well, I got voted by all the ROTC guys as the platoon leader for the class for the year, so I was the top student in the class. And so Captain Whitehead took a bit, a big interest in me, but he thought I should be a Marine, so he kept taking me to the Marine recruiting office. So I visited the Marine recruiting office quite a bit, filled out all my paperwork, and one night I decided ... I had everything packed. I sold everything I had. Sold my car, water skis, shotguns. Sold everything I had. I think I ended up with about $3,000. I had my guitar, one suitcase, and my Marine paperwork sitting on my dresser, and I said, "When I wake up in the morning, I'll decide whether I'm gonna move to Nashville or join the Marines." And I fell asleep, woke up the next morning, looked over, got up, picked up the, the Marine paper, tore it up, put it in the garbage, and went and bought a Greyhound bus ticket.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
And ended up in Nashville. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
I have so many questions. So why did Captain Whitehead think you should be a Marine?
- TMTim McGraw
I don't know. I guess because I did well in the class-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- TMTim McGraw
... and we got along well. He kept coming to our fraternity house and hanging out with us. We just got along well, and he liked me. As a matter of fact, we played ... It had to have been 15 years later after I was, had a lot of success. We played the base in San Diego, military base in San Diego, and it was huge. It was packed. And I'm singing and playing, and I'm standing in front of the stage, and I look down, and Captain Whiteheads right at the front of the stage
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
And I got to say hi to him and talk to him a little bit afterwards. He just says, "You would've been a good Marine." [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs] You missed the boat, son.
- TMTim McGraw
No, I didn't. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs] I'm kidding. The platoon leader piece is interesting to me. What do you think, even if you had to speculate, why did that happen? Why did they vote you platoon leader?
- TMTim McGraw
I don't know. I mean, I think I enjoyed it.
- TFTim Ferriss
If you had to guess, what do you think?
- TMTim McGraw
I think there were a few-
- 59:36 – 1:04:46
Nashville as creative accelerant: Tracy Lawrence, Kenny Chesney, and $50 singing competitions.
- TMTim McGraw
and then moved to Nashville.
- TFTim Ferriss
I'm curious what Nashville did for you, because it makes me think of Bob Dylan before he was Bob Dylan, but, like, moving from Minnesota to, I think it was Greenwich Village, right? Moves to the epicenter and is like, "I'm gonna find Guthrie, and I don't know how I'm gonna make it work, but I'm gonna figure it out. And I'm going to the center of the action."
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
And that story was really laid out for me in detail by this very, very impressive investor and, [laughs] and fascinating human, Bill Gurley, who is in Austin. But he has a book coming out soon called Running Down a Dream, which is about-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... sort of pursuing passion and, and finding that lightning in a bottle for yourself.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
But one of his sections is on going to the epicenter, like going to where the action is.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
And I would love for you to describe what effect Nashville had. I mean, in a sense, you already sort of showed, showed some of what can happen by the fact that you get off the bus, you go have a beer after last call-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... and then bada bing, bada boom. I mean, it's-
- TMTim McGraw
You hear a great song.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah. And songs that end up making my career. I think instantly it just lit a fire under me. You know, when you jump into a pool of people who are like-minded- ... and who are all chasing the same thing, there's just such an energy that you get from everybody that's doing it. Like, you know, Tracy Lawrence, Kenny Chesney, and I were best friends, and we ran around together everywhere. None of us had record deals. And we would compete. You know, all these clubs, like you could get up and sing, and you could win 50 bucks for who had got the most hand applause. So we were always competing to get rent money.
- TFTim Ferriss
That's cool. That's cool.
- TMTim McGraw
Tracy usually always won [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
... 'cause he was the best singer out of all of... at the time. But just running around, being involved, every night being at somebody's apartment playing music, writing songs every day, out every night singing in all these clubs. It was just a, just an immersion experience of art where you learn so much. You learn from different singers. You hear somebody sing and you think, "Wow, how do they do that? How can I..." You imitate people. You figure things out. You see what somebody's doing on stage. You see how somebody sing. You see how somebody's songwriting. It just becomes this sort of gumbo of all this magic-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm
- TMTim McGraw
... that you find, and it starts, just comes into every pore of your body, and you just open yourself up to it and just try to learn as much as you can. It can be heartbreaking too at the same time, you know? And then also recognizing where you're getting held back, where you start realizing you need to put more aspirational people around you-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- TMTim McGraw
... as opposed to people are just being happy doing what they're doing.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TMTim McGraw
And I try to tell it to my daughters all the time.
- TFTim Ferriss
That sounds like it could be very difficult.
- TMTim McGraw
It can be difficult because, you know, it's not about dropping friends, but it's about gathering friends that, that inspire you to be, people that you wanna be like or they have traits that you wanna, that you wanna emulate.
- TFTim Ferriss
Could you describe an instance of when that happened and-
- TMTim McGraw
Oh, God
- TFTim Ferriss
... how you navigated it?
- 1:04:46 – 1:07:38
Po’boy Don’s crawfish shack: The demo that launched Tim’s career.
- TMTim McGraw
a record label.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
So I decided I'm gonna go by Curb Records and see if Mike Borchetta's in his office.
- TFTim Ferriss
After him not returning any of your calls?
- TMTim McGraw
After him not returning my calls. And I have to back up just a little bit, 'cause there was this little place called Po’boy Don’s in Tallulah, Louisiana, that was in the middle of a cotton field. And it was just a little wood frame shack, but it was like a convenience store/deer butcher shop-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
.../crawfish boil kinda place. And in the back of the store they had a bunch of stumps and an old wood stove, and there were a bunch of guys all in their 70s and 60s that were all playing country music. And I happened to be out that area one day, and it was in the middle of nowhere. And so I stopped in and sat down and started playing guitar with these guys. So they kept inviting me to come back. It was about 30 miles from school. So every Thursday night it'd end up being like five or six cars of my fraternity brothers. We'd all go to this little hole-in-the-wall place with all these 70-year-old guys, and they would give us free beer and crawfish as long as I would sit back there and sing with them. And it ended up, that place become and getting packed and packed and packed to where there were just people there every Thursday night. And it just became a really fun thing. So when I moved to Nashville, Po’boy Don, who owned that, and it was a farm or two and he owned all the farmland around, and just, he played the bass and it was his store. And he just really loved me and loved to hear me sing. So I needed a demo. I didn't have a demo. I didn't have any money for a demo. So I called him and he sent me $3,000 to record a demo. So I recorded a demo, and that's the demo I played for Mike Borchetta when I walked into his office. Anyway, I sat down. He said, "Well, leave the CD with me."
- TFTim Ferriss
So you're just knock, knock, anybody home?
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah, knock, knock. Well, I walked past the secretary 'cause I saw he was in his office.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
And I walked past the secretary. She goes, "Excuse me." And I said, "I'm just gonna say hi to Mike." I walked in and I said, "Hi, Mike. How you doing?" He said, "Who are you?"
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
Then I told him my name and he goes, "Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah." He says, "Um, call me next week and we'll meet." And I, I said, "Well, I have my demo here I'd like for you to listen to." And he goes, "Well, leave it on the desk and I'll listen to it." I says, "Well, can you, can you listen to it now?" And he goes, "No, I'm headed out to Fan Fair. I gotta go." I says, "Well, can you just listen to part of a song?" He goes, "All right. I'll listen to the song."
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
So he put the song in, and halfway through the first one he goes, "You got a record deal, kid."
- TFTim Ferriss
Wow.
- TMTim McGraw
And that's how I got a record deal.
- TFTim Ferriss
Halfway through the first song
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah. First half of the first-
- TFTim Ferriss
Was it the first song on the demo?
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah, first song on the demo. Yeah. It was convoluted after that, but, but I got a record deal, so I got my foot in the door. So, you know, it started from there.
- TFTim Ferriss
Wow.
- TMTim McGraw
But he was somebody that... When a guy who runs a record label, and you know nothing about how that works, and it's the first record label I went to, sits down and listens to half of your demo, which you're not even sure is any good, and says you have a record deal, well, I think you get exponentially better in that instant.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah. So you're given wings, in a way.
- TMTim McGraw
Absolutely. The mustard seed.
- 1:07:38 – 1:10:23
How Faith Hill saved Tim’s life.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah. So we're gonna hop around a little bit because-
- TMTim McGraw
Okay
- TFTim Ferriss
... we could go a million different directions. I mean, we could spend 20 hours talking about your career and still not run out of material.
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
I believe, it might have been in Parade, it could have been in a different interview, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you've said that your wife saved your life.
- TMTim McGraw
Oh, God.
- TFTim Ferriss
Along those lines.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
Why is that?
- TMTim McGraw
Because I was running pretty hard. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
I was running hard back in the day.
- TFTim Ferriss
What does that mean?
- TMTim McGraw
Well, I was drinking a lot, which that didn't stop after we got married, [laughs] but she beat it out of me after a while.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
I was just doing everything. I was, I was a kid in a candy store, you know, especially after I got successful.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
And never had any money before, never been around any of that stuff before, and then all of a sudden it became a tool that was useful till it wasn't. When Faith came along, I was burning it wide open when we met, and, uh, she started tapping the brakes for me.
- TFTim Ferriss
How did she do that in a way that didn't repel you?
- TMTim McGraw
Well, look at her.
- TFTim Ferriss
Well, I mean, right.
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah. I mean, yeah, she's, she's got a lot on offer.
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
This is, this is for sure. But, like, I would imagine, we don't know each other well, but that strong-willed guy-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... high gear, high intensity, high velocity, kid in a candy store. Like, Faith is incredible on a million different levels, and you also have a lot of options around.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
So what allowed her to dial some of those things back, which ended up being really important long term for you and for-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- 1:10:23 – 1:12:18
The 7 a.m. bottle of whiskey cry for help.
- TFTim Ferriss
So you guys met at 28. When did you change the drinking?
- TMTim McGraw
It took a while. I mean, I'd certainly calmed it down quite a bit, and it fluctuated. You know, it would be times where it was not bad, then times where it was bad. And then it just got to where it was just... got out of control, and it was... That's when she sat me down. Well, actually, she'd sat me down a few times, but actually, there was one morning in particular where I woke up and realized that it was 7:00 in the morning. I was gonna have to take the kids to school soon, and I realized I had a bottle of whiskey in my hand at 7:00 in the morning. And I had the bottle in my hand, and I walked straight back to the bedroom and told her that I need help. She goes, "All right. Let's do it. I'm with you." And she's stuck by me the whole time. And look, it's not been a linear path, as anybody knows that's ever gone through that kind of thing. It's not a linear path. There's always pitfalls and steps backwards and steps forwards, but, um, she's a rock. She's a rock.
- TFTim Ferriss
You know, this is just a random, random thought, but at some point, if you haven't met Laird Hamilton and his wife Gabby, Laird Hamilton's-
- TMTim McGraw
I know who Laird is, yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah. In any case, a lot of parallels-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... in your lives.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
And I think also Gabby Reece, who used to be a professional volleyball player.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
In any case, a lot of parallels. Intensity, right?
- TMTim McGraw
Yes.
- TFTim Ferriss
High gear. And it's very common, at least among my friends certainly, and even in my case way back in the day, it's like that type of intensity can also get misapplied or reapplied to something like alcohol.
- TMTim McGraw
Absolutely.
- TFTim Ferriss
It's not always a selective intensity.
- TMTim McGraw
No, it's not a selective intensity, and then when it becomes a physical dependency, then, then you're in trouble.
- TFTim Ferriss
Then you're in
- 1:12:18 – 1:16:21
Parenthood as selfishness-removal surgery.
- TFTim Ferriss
trouble.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
How has fatherhood changed you?
- TMTim McGraw
Mm. Wow. Well, you certainly see with different eyes, and it changes what your definition of love is, more so than even getting married, I think, when you have children. There's such a responsibility and a weight that comes with the, all the brightness and the light and the love that causes you to realize that that's your true eternal life is your children and how they carry their perception of you forward, and it's a scary proposition 'cause you're not gonna do it right.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
Nobody does it right. You just hope you do ... 30% of it right, and you just show up, you know, and do the right. But I think the thing that it changed more than anything, and I think anybody would tell you this, and it's, and it's pretty simple, is it takes a lot of the selfishness out of you. And part of you has to have that, I guess, in order to, to succeed and to, to push forward. But, um, boy, it takes a lot of selfishness out of you and puts a lot of drive and passion and responsibility and thinking of the future in your path, which provides more structure for you.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
And what I've also found out, too, is, is as the kids grow up, and Faith and I both have found out, that structure was so good because you had to be on the ball. You had to get up every morning at 6:00. You had to t- you had to break breakfast. You had to take your kids to school. You had to help with homework. You had to go to practices. You coach softball. You co- all those things that keep you in a good, balanced routine. So when the kids start leaving the house, all of a sudden you start like, "What am I, what am I gonna do with the rest of my day? Now I don't have to get up at 6:00." It can take away some of your focus, and it can take away some of your routine, and it can take away a little bit of drive once the kids are out of the house.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
And, um, it comes back, but at first you're sort of lost and sort of figuring out, "What, what do I do with my time here?"
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs] I've got a few chapters to get through before I get-
- TMTim McGraw
But-
- TFTim Ferriss
... I get there
- TMTim McGraw
... after about six or eight months, a year, then you realize you're, you and your wife, you realize you're home alone, then the fun begins. [claps hands]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs] How did you decide to be a father in the sense, like how did you set rules for yourself or goals, hopes without necessarily a model for it?
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
So part of the reason I think that I've delayed building a family for as long as I have is that, God bless my dad in, in certain ways, but I wanted to do things differently-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... if I did it at all.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
Very differently.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
And since I felt like I had no role model, I felt like I had no confidence that I would be a good father. And so I was like, well, fundamentally if I'm bringing, helping bring some life into the world, they didn't ask for it necessarily. I mean, we could debate [laughs] -
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... gets into some deep philosophical territory and religious territory quickly. But I wouldn't want to do a bad job-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... or more harm than good. And so I've waited and waited and waited.
- TMTim McGraw
Well, you're gonna do a bad job.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah. [laughs] Right.
- TMTim McGraw
I mean, everybody does a bad job.
- 1:16:21 – 1:20:23
Tim’s “Glory Days” disaster with Bruce Springsteen.
- TMTim McGraw
does.
- TFTim Ferriss
All right. I'm gonna grab that and run with it.
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
Because there's an expression in Japanese I used to... I, I went to Japan as an exchange student, called hanen kyoshi. Hanen kyoshi is, like, opposite teacher. It's basically like an anti-role model.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
And they show you what not to do.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
So I'm wondering if there professionally have been any experiences, a tour, how you made a song or even chose a song in the first place, that really taught you what not to do, right? Like an event, a song, a performance, a commitment, a partnership, anything where you're like, "Hm, [clicks tongue] okay."
- TMTim McGraw
Oh, I've put myself in plenty of positions that I wish I hadn't.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
I don't know if I can specifically say what not to do. I can say be prepared all the time, but I can tell you my most embarrassing moment-
- TFTim Ferriss
All right
- TMTim McGraw
... in the music business.
- TFTim Ferriss
Let's do it.
- TMTim McGraw
It might be the best way to go. Bruce Springsteen, who I'm a huge fan of, and he's a friend, and I've known him for a long time, one of the greatest guys in the world, sweetheart. So MusiCares, you know what MusiCares is? It's where they do a big concert the night before the Grammys to raise money, and it honors a specific artist, and other artists come in to do their songs. So Bruce was being honored, so he called and asked if Faith and I would do Tougher Than the Rest together as part of the thing, and of course we said, yes, we would love to do it. So everybody's doing their songs, and there's Sting, you know, there's all the big guys playing Bruce's songs. So we do Tougher Than the Rest, and we do a great job on it. Everything turned out good, and we're sitting at Bruce's table, and we're talking. And, and Bruce was like, "Hey, man, you know, at the end of this, you know, we're gonna do, uh, Glory Days." He says, "Everybody's gonna come on stage and just sing along with the choruses." He said, "You, you think you and Faith are gonna come up and do that?" And I was like, "Sure, we'll come up. I mean, we can do the chorus, sing along with the chorus of Glory Days." So we're up there, and we're on stage, and we're all singing along. So Bruce is in the second chorus, and he, he looks over at one artist, and he's like, "Hey, like, come sing the second verse." And the artist is like, "Mm-mm. No."
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
So he looks at another artist like, "Come sing the second verse," and that artist is like, "Mm-mm. No, no, no." So on the microphone he goes, "Hey, cowboy hat, come sing the second verse."
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
And in my mind I'm thinking, "All right, it's Glory Days. I know it, but I don't think I've ever sung it." And Bruce's phrasing is some of the hardest phrasing in the world, the way he writes. And I thought, "All right, I can, I can get through the second verse of this. I can figure it out." The words were up there. So I step up, and I have no idea where to come in. I don't know the phrasing. I don't know anything. And everybody who is anybody in the music business is out there, and I'm standing there with that feel when, when your mom has caught you doing something re- or your wife has caught you doing something really bad-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs] Yeah
- TMTim McGraw
... and where all the blood rushes out of your body-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
... and you're gut-punched. So I couldn't sing the song. I'm just like... And then Bruce is, comes up beside me. He's like, "Bah, bah, bah," like that.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
Then he starts singing the song. So then I step back beside Faith. I'm gonna s- can I stand up?
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
I step back beside Faith, embarrassed, and I step back beside her, and this is what Faith does.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
She stepped away from me.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- 1:20:23 – 1:25:20
When Tim’s first album “went wood” — the failure that taught him everything.
- TFTim Ferriss
So I would love to sort of flesh out the humanizing of Tim McGraw a little bit, right? Because for people who may not know your career, they might be like, "Man, this guy just gets off the Greyhound bus," and then it's like he's hitting a double and a triple and a home run, and it's just endless home runs, right? Green lights the whole way. And I'm curious if there are any favorite failures, things that didn't work-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... that ended up teaching you something important or laying the seeds for something later, or if there was ever a period of feeling plateau or stuckness-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... and how you dealt with it.
- TMTim McGraw
It was both of those. I think failure that I learned a lot from was my first album, which we always say went wood. I think we had one song that w- made it to 38-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs] Went wood
- TMTim McGraw
... off of that album. Yeah, went wood.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
So no hits on it, and so the label just sort of forgot about me after that. And so I was slowly gathering songs, but I learned a lot. I learned what I didn't wanna do.
- TFTim Ferriss
What was that?
- TMTim McGraw
The way to make music. I learned what I didn't want it to sound like.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm.
- TMTim McGraw
So I slowly started gathering songs from songwriter friends of mine, not really big songwriters, just friends of mine who are songwriters. Slowly started collecting songs. The label never even called me after the [laughs] album came out 'cause it didn't do anything. Didn't talk to them at all. So I collected these songs, and I went to Byron and I said, "All right. I'm ready to go record these songs I got."
- TFTim Ferriss
Who's Byron again?
- TMTim McGraw
My producer, Byron Gallimore, that we produced together. I said, "I'm ready to cut these songs." And he goes, "Well, has Curb heard them? Are they approved us?" Says, "Nope, we're just gonna book a session and go cut the album." And so we booked a session.
- TFTim Ferriss
So it was like an album on spec.
- TMTim McGraw
Yes.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
We billed Curb.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
We billed Curb for the whole thing. We cut the album, did all the artwork.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
Had the CD ready with the artwork done, and turned it into them. And of course they hit the roof-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
... 'cause we had spent a bunch of money making an album that we weren't approved of. Then it was the Not a Moment Too Soon album. Then they listened to the album, and then they were all on board.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
And the good thing about that is the first one didn't work. The second one I said, "I wanna do this my way, and to do this," and had Indian Outlaw. "I'm gonna do the songs I wanna do. I'm picking all the songs, doing the songs I wanna do. Gonna cut them the way I wanna cut them, and if it fails, it fails on my terms this time." And luckily it worked.
- TFTim Ferriss
So that's why you didn't reach out for approval.
- TMTim McGraw
No.
- 1:25:20 – 1:29:45
A rodeo monkey no longer: When Tim kicked his record company to the curb.
- TFTim Ferriss
What about the- Periods of stuckness outside of the most recent injury period and the surgical, obviously the multiple surgeries.
- TMTim McGraw
Well, the biggest period of stuckness and the biggest period where I thought... Besides this po- period where I thought it was might be over is when I went through a whole legal battle with Curb Records. That was a very dark period in my career. They kept extending my contract by putting greatest hits albums out. So every time I would turn in an album, that would be the final album for my, for my contract, they would drop a greatest hits, which didn't count against the contract. So I think they ended up putting like 10 greatest hits albums to have to keep me from dropping my album. So finally, I decided I either had to bite the bullet and try to go to court with them and get out or be stuck with them. Either way, I'm taking a chance on my career. And, uh, we battled for a couple of years, and I had to pretty much rebuild my career after that, and that was a scary time, 'cause momentum's a tough thing. I heard a quote the other day. It was, it was actually on Landman. I was watching it.
- TFTim Ferriss
Great show.
- TMTim McGraw
Great show, and Sam Elliott was talking to Billy Bob. He says, "You know that monkey at rodeos that rides on the back of the border collie? And the border collie just runs around and runs around, and the monkey's just hanging on for dear life, and he can't let go because he'll die, so he's gotta hold on." And he looked at Billy. He said, "You're that monkey."
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
And I thought... looked at Faith. She goes, "Jesus Christ, I'm that monkey." [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
So I feel like I'm that monkey where you're... [laughs] But I don't know that if it's, if it's intentional-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm
- TMTim McGraw
... if it's innately in you. But there's something about even when you know you need to take a break or even when you know that you need to slow down, when things are rolling, there's this sixth sense in your body that knows you can't let the momentum stop 'cause it's so hard to restart. Even if consciously you're not thinking that, there's something in you that keeps it driving 'cause you don't want the ball to stop rolling. And, and it's 'cause you're scared, 'cause you're scared if the ball stops rolling, you'll never get it rolling again.
- TFTim Ferriss
For sure.
- TMTim McGraw
So that was a time when, when that was happening to me, and I thought, "You know, oh, it's gonna be hard to restart the momentum." And then after these surgeries, it was another one of those times.
- TFTim Ferriss
Legal battles is just exhaustion upon exhaustion.
- TMTim McGraw
Oh, it's just crazy.
- TFTim Ferriss
And sometimes you can't avoid it, but if you can avoid it-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah, I, I don't wanna be involved in legal battles [laughs] unless it's just absolutely... But that, but that was at a point in my career that, that I had to... If I didn't do something, my career was gonna be over.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
And if I did do something, there was a chance it was gonna be over.
- TFTim Ferriss
There was still a risk.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
What were some of the most important things in retrospect that you did to rebuild your career, regain that momentum afterwards?
- TMTim McGraw
Well, choosing the right partner-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm
- TMTim McGraw
... for one thing, which is Scott Borchetta, who happens to be the son of Mike Borchetta, who signed me to my first deal.
- TFTim Ferriss
What a small world. [laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
I know. Who I signed with, um, Big Machine afterwards 'cause I knew he was a hard worker. So that certainly being first, but I was also recording the best album I, I think I'd ever recorded in my life while all this was going on, once I was cleared to record, and so I had an album ready to go. By the time all the dust was settled-
- TFTim Ferriss
The dust settled
- TMTim McGraw
... I had an album ready to go, and Scott Borchetta was ready, and the album worked, and the juice was back.
- TFTim Ferriss
Incredible.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah. But a lot of that was my team kept fighting for me the entire time. When I went to Scott, to his label, he f- he knew what, what had happened, and he fought really hard 'cause he, he didn't like what had happened either.
- 1:29:45 – 1:35:50
Tim’s most important advice for artists.
- TFTim Ferriss
I am so curious because you must get approached all the time one way or another from musicians at different stages in their careers.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
Maybe it's the son of a friend or the daughter of a fill in the blank.
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
Or it could be someone who's just coming up. Maybe they're trying to be an opener for you. Who knows?
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
Someone who is earlier in their career, I imagine the advice you might give them has changed over time. But if they want to be more than a flash in the pan-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm. Take charge
- TFTim Ferriss
... to, to really last, yeah, what advice do you give them?
- TMTim McGraw
Take charge.
- TFTim Ferriss
All right. Can you say more?
- TMTim McGraw
Take charge of your career.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
Take charge of your career. Take charge of what you do. Be confident in your decisions. Listen. Of course you wanna listen to people and listen to people that know what they're doing, but ultimately, you have to make the decisions. You have to make your choices, and you have to make the right choices for you, and nobody can do that but yourself. And if you, if you just coast, you might have a career for a little while, but if you want a long career, you're gonna have to take charge and ownership of it, and you're gonna have to guide it, and you're gonna have to have your finger on the button all the time, and you're gonna have to say yes, and you're gonna have to say no. And you're gonna have to use your skills to manage people. You're gonna have to use your skills to be managed. And both of those things can happen simultaneously, and they have to happen simultaneously. You have to listen to smart people. But if you don't have a vision about what you wanna do, if you don't have a plan about what you wanna do, if you don't act on it every day, it's not gonna happen. It's just not gonna happen. And you can do all those things and it still not happen.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right. [laughs] But if you do all those things and it doesn't happen, back to your second album, right? It's like you're taking the risk that you fail on your own terms-
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm
- TFTim Ferriss
... as opposed to gambling on something that doesn't resonate for you-
- TMTim McGraw
Absolutely
- TFTim Ferriss
... that someone's talked you into.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
So that seems to be a piece of it, right?
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
There's, as you said, having your finger on the button, being willing to say yes and no.
- TMTim McGraw
Being willing to say no is a big deal.
- TFTim Ferriss
Why do you think people are bad at that?
- TMTim McGraw
Saying no?
- TFTim Ferriss
Sure.
- TMTim McGraw
Because people wanna please people. People want, you know, they want people to like them. They w- I mean, I, I mean, I want people to like me.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TMTim McGraw
But if you don't learn to say no, not in a mean way or not in a bad way, but just say, "No, that's not right for me," and that's back to knowing what's right for you and what isn't right for you. There could be something that on the surface everybody that works for you says, "This is the perfect thing," but you've gotta know whether it is or not. And sometimes you don't. You don't, you don't can get it right all the time. There's plenty of times you get it wrong, but I think if you go with your gut... There's a caveat to all of this, too, 'cause there are plenty of artists who succeed who don't pick their songs, don't have any involvement in their production, really don't have any involvement in their management, don't have any involvement in their stage design, and they just show up and do their thing. There's plenty of artists who do that and are successful. So there's, there's always exceptions to the rule, but I think for the most part, the artists who have been around for a long time, the artists I know who have been around for a long time, they take control of their careers.
- 1:35:50 – 1:38:28
Announcing the summer 2026 Pawn Shop Guitar tour with The Chicks.
- TFTim Ferriss
So let's talk about putting people in seats and [laughs] tours. You have the upcoming Pawn Shop Guitar Tour-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... this summer.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
You've got new music in the works.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm. In the middle of working on an album right now.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TMTim McGraw
In fact, next week I'm in the studio again.
- TFTim Ferriss
So [laughs] could you talk about, just tell us more about both.
- TMTim McGraw
Okay.
- TFTim Ferriss
And then you've got family, obviously have your lovely wife, you have, still have a lot going on.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
So I'd love to know, and I'm sure the audience would, more about both of these, right? Where can they learn more? When can they expect things? And then also how you actually schedule your time, structure your time these days.
- TMTim McGraw
Well, album-wise, like I said, we're in the middle of an album, and the album's gonna be called Pawn Shop Guitar as well. It's a song I wrote back to the story I told you where I got my first guitar, where I pawned my high school ring my freshman year of college-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TMTim McGraw
... and bought the guitar. Luckily for me, my grandfather found out about it and went back and got my ring for me.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
Although I don't know where it's at now. I think my wife has it somewhere. So I wrote the whole song around that, that story, and we were looking for tour titles, you know, trying to find the right tour title. I thought Pawn Shop Guitar was good. We all thought it was good just because of the story that it told, and it conjures up some good imagery.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah. So we start that tour, I think it starts in July, the tour starts in July. I think we're doing three or four stadiums and sheds. The Chicks will be out on the stadium tours with us, and I'm a huge fan of those guys. We did a George Strait tour together years ago, and then they opened for me on one of my tours years ago and, and just a huge fan of their music. I'm excited to get out with those guys. And then we're doing sheds for the summer, and then we'll do some more shows as well. We'll be doing some fairs and festivals, and it's gonna be a busy year. We're gonna be doing a lot, and there's a couple movie and TV projects in the works.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
And then my oldest daughter's working on a Broadway... She's a Broadway actress and singer, so she's working on some stuff. My youngest daughter is a singer and actor. She's in Land Man.
- TFTim Ferriss
Oh, no kidding.
- TMTim McGraw
She just opened for Brandi Carlile on her European tour last summer. My middle daughter works for Earth League International, a big nonprofit. She sings as well [laughs] , but she's more the brainiac. She went to Stanford, got her master's degree from Stanford, worked in Congress for a long time. So they're all doing well.
- TFTim Ferriss
Seems like this, like, fathering thing you've done pretty well. I mean, they've turned out pretty well.
- TMTim McGraw
Well, they got a good mom. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah, yeah. [laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
And then my nephew, Timothy Wayne, is out there doing well, too. He's a singer, so... I'm the worst singer in the family, but-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
For real. [laughs]
- 1:38:28 – 1:41:47
If it’s so grueling, why does Tim still tour?
- TFTim Ferriss
Why do it? Now, that might sound like a strange question, but-
- TMTim McGraw
Why do what?
- TFTim Ferriss
Touring.
- TMTim McGraw
Uh.
- TFTim Ferriss
It's so grueling, I have to imagine. Very demanding.
- TMTim McGraw
It is.
- TFTim Ferriss
It's physically demanding. It's psychologically demanding. Is it the... Is it something you feel on stage? Is it a quickening that you just can't get any other way? What is it that keeps you going back?
- TMTim McGraw
Well, you can't get it any other way. That's for sure. And they're always good.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm.
- TMTim McGraw
But every third show or so, you have that one show that's like, "This is why I do it. This is why I do it." And you're right, touring is more grueling. Touring's more expensive. You pay for everything. You know, you're work... doing three nights in a row, all... But it's your stage, your design, your ideas, the way you want it to look, all those things. That's the fun in it for me, building the stage and putting a show together. That's also the hardest part is putting a set list together because, you know, after 35 years and a ton of records, you're never gonna get everybody's favorite song in.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
Somebody's always gonna miss a song that they wanted to hear 'cause you can only do, what, 22, 23 songs in a show at the most. And when you've got 70 or 80 singles and, you know, a bunch of number ones, you can't get them all in.
- TFTim Ferriss
You can't get them all.
- TMTim McGraw
So you just try to create a ride and an emotion and an experience, and that's the fun part for me is trying to create a movie for everybody to see.
- TFTim Ferriss
On those magic nights, just a few more questions-
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... and then we'll land the plane, but what does that feel like? I'm so curious 'cause I, I've played sports. I've had flow states in various contexts.
- TMTim McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- TFTim Ferriss
But I've never experienced anything with that type of environment.
- TMTim McGraw
That's what it reminds me of is sports. Certainly reminds me of football before the games, and it reminds me of the locker room, and it reminds me of the... just when you get your uniform on, you feel like you're 10 foot tall and bulletproof. It's when I put the cowboy hat, it's like Superman's cape.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
You know, you put the cowboy hat on, you're ready to go. But, uh, there's a symbiotic relationship that happens, and to me, art is magic. That's what real magic is, is art, any kind of art. And the magic happens when you're up there, and everything's going great for you, and you can tell everything's going great for the audience, and you f- have this symbiotic electrical relationship where you're all in this groove together, and you're all sort of in suspended animation for a while, where you leave the world outside, and all of a sudden we're all in this fantasy world that we create, that we're all living in for this hour and a half. And when that happens, when the whole world just sort of shuts down, and you're in this make-believe world that all of a sudden becomes the real world that you're in for an hour and a half, two hours, where nothing else exists except for that world, then you're in a movie. Then you're in this alternate universe that there's nothing but joy.
- TFTim Ferriss
It's like a utopia that you are able to create.
- TMTim McGraw
Yes, yes, on the good nights.
- TFTim Ferriss
On the good nights.
- TMTim McGraw
And, and, you know, and, and sometimes you think it's not a good night because your ears don't sound great or your voice isn't doing what you want it to do and all this, and sometimes those turn out to be the best nights. I, I mean, my best basketball game I ever had, I think I scored 52 points, and I had the flu, and I kept trying to get the coach to take me out of the game 'cause I thought I was hurting the team.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
I thought I was playing terribly. Then he showed me the book [laughs] after, at the end of the game. [laughs]
- 1:41:47 – 1:42:47
Tim’s “Humble and Kind” billboard.
- TFTim Ferriss
Tim, if you could have a billboard, metaphorically speaking, put anything on it for millions, billions of people to see, right? Could be a quote, could be a mantra, could be scripture, could be anything, right? Could be an image. So anything non-commercial.
- TMTim McGraw
Humble and Kind.
- TFTim Ferriss
Humble and Kind.
- TMTim McGraw
Humble and Kind.
- TFTim Ferriss
Tell me more about that.
- TMTim McGraw
Because that song to me represents so much, the video too, so much of what the world needs and what we don't have right now is humility and kindness, and of course, love should be in that as well. Without humility and kindness, we're lost, and we seem to be lost right now. And, um, so that song to me is a beacon in a lot of ways. Um, that one and Live Like You Were Dying to me are songs that don't belong to me. They're just, I just happen to be lucky enough to be able to sing them for people. They belong to everybody.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
Hear, hear. Humble and Kind.
- 1:42:47 – 1:44:38
Parting thoughts and a parting gift: “Different” — the new song only on social media.
- TFTim Ferriss
Tim, we're gonna link to everything related to Tim McGraw in the show notes.
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
You've got plenty, right?
- TMTim McGraw
Not everything. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
Not... [laughs] We'll leave out your OnlyFans page.
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
But we have, you know, X, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube. You're not hard for people to find. Is there anything else you'd like to point people to? Anything you'd like to say? Closing comments, public complaints. [laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
Anything? Try your stand, stand-
- TMTim McGraw
I got plenty of public complaints, but I'm not gonna air them. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
Stand-up comedy, raw material, anything you'd like to say before we come to a close?
- TMTim McGraw
Well, first I wanna thank you for having me-
- TFTim Ferriss
Absolutely
- TMTim McGraw
... and allowing me to be a part of your book-
- TFTim Ferriss
My pleasure
- TMTim McGraw
... one of your books.
- TFTim Ferriss
Thank you.
- TMTim McGraw
And, uh, enjoy listening to you and hope we can do it again.
- TFTim Ferriss
Absolutely. It's been such a pleasure. I've wanted to, to connect in person for years. So much fun.
- TMTim McGraw
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
And I hope it's not the last time. I love Nashville, so I'll be back.
- TMTim McGraw
Good. Well, and when you're back, we'll talk again.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah, absolutely.
- TMTim McGraw
I'll cook dinner for you one night.
- TFTim Ferriss
I'm in.
- TMTim McGraw
Or have Fa- Faith cook dinner for you would be better.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TMTim McGraw
Although I'm a pretty good cook.
- TFTim Ferriss
That is a deal for sure. And everybody listening, we will put links to anything and everything we can find, obviously all the ways to find what you're up to, the tour, the music when it's ready.
- TMTim McGraw
There is one new song, before to interrupt you, that people can find-
Episode duration: 1:44:49
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