EVERY SPOKEN WORD
80 min read · 16,224 words- 0:00 – 10:07
Start
- TFTim Ferriss
Optimal minimal At this altitude, I can run flat-out for a half-mile before my hands start shaking.
- TRTony Robbins
Can I ask you a personal question? Now would just be an appropriate time.
- TFTim Ferriss
What if I did the opposite?
- TRTony Robbins
I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over a metal endoskeleton.
- TFTim Ferriss
The Tim Ferriss Show. This episode is brought to you by 99designs.com, which is the largest online marketplace for graphic design, with more than 850,000 registered designers from all over the world who compete for your business. I've used them for years, and I've used them for some very big projects, like the book cover for The 4-Hour Body, which went on to become a number one New York Times bestseller, translated into at least, I would say, 10, 15, 20 languages. And I used 99designs because I needed results and I needed them very quickly. So here's how it works. You need a logo, a website, book cover, T-shirt, car wrap, whatever. You put a description on 99designs.com. Then people submit designs, and in a week or less, you have an original design that you love, or you get 100% of your money back. So check out 99designs.com/tim. You can see some of the projects that I've done personally, and you can also get a $99 upgrade for free. This highlights your project, listing it with a prominent background, bumping it to the top of the page, and on average, this will attract close to 200% more designs. So check out 99designs.com/tim, and I think you'll like what you see. Hello, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. This is a very exhausted Tim Ferriss, and welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show. So glad to have you. You know, I am one tired son of a bitch right now, and I couldn't be happier about it because I've been flying around the country doing various experiments, and I had the opportunity to go to Palm Beach, Florida to sit at the home of Tony Robbins and ask him just about everything I've ever wanted to ask him. And this is a very special interview for me. This is the interview, the conversation I've wanted to have for 15 years. And now that I'm back in SF, gathering myself, drinking some what appears to be Laughing Coyote tea. I have no idea what's in it. Could be all sorts of drugs, psilocybin. Uh, and I'm thrilled to be putting this out there for you because Tony is a fascinating character. For those of you who don't know him, he has consulted or advised leaders including Nelson Mandela, Mikhail Gorbachev, Margaret Thatcher, and Mother Teresa. He's consulted members of two royal families, the US Congress, US Army, US Marines, three US presidents, including Clinton, and other celebrity clients would include names you know, like Serena Williams, Andre Agassi, Greg Norman, of course, the golf legend, Leonardo DiCaprio, and Oprah Winfrey, who calls him superhuman. The stat that always just sends my head spinning is that Tony has developed and produced five award-winning infomercials. That's, of course, how a lot of people came to know of him. And these infomercials have continuously aired on average every 30 minutes, 24 hours a day, somewhere in North America since, check it out, April 1989. It's just Tony TV out there, 24/7. Insanity. This particular conversation is broken into basically three parts. The first third of our very long conversation involves me asking him the questions I've always been dying to ask him, ever since I first was exposed to his material. And I explain a lot of the background, which is kind of hilarious, uh, when we get started. The second third and the third third, uh, would, and of course, uh, along the way, we talk about his daily routines, the types of questions that he asks world-class performers, and so on. The latter portions of this, uh, focus on what Tony has been researching and, and really teasing apart and analyzing for the last, m- well, several decades, but especially the last four years, and that is, how do you master the game of money? Why is there so much financial illiteracy, and how do you stack the deck so that you can win? Because there's a lot of hijinks and there's a lot of nonsense out there. How do you actually invest? What do you do with your money? And it's a huge topic, but he has interviewed and, in fact, coached some of the most unbelievable minds in the world of finance and investing. I couldn't believe the list, uh, including people like Paul Tudor Jones, Ray Dalio, who's of course a, a, a, a whiz in the world of hedge funds. And, uh, the, the list is unbelievable. Carl Icahn, David Swensen, who turned one billion into, I think, 23 billion for Yale. Uh, some curious characters like Mark "Dr. Doom" Faber, uh, Sir John Templeton, Kyle Bass, who became very, very famous for, uh, in effect predicting and shorting, uh, the, the subprime crisis, or at least he, he made his fortune, one of his fortunes in, uh, in, in seeing that through, through the looking glass. These are, these are the, the s- the Navy SEALs, the, uh, [laughs] the, the, the top of the top, and he has been able to ask them just about everything that you would want to ask them. And w- A lot of what Tony's gonna say is controversial or counterintuitive. No doubt you'll disagree with some of what he says, but I guarantee you, even if you don't care about investing or you think you don't care about investing, and by the way, if you've decided not to think about investing, that is a decision in investing. I guarantee that if you listen to this entire conversation, uh, which I plan to listen to over and over again, it's, it has a lot of information, that you will take away at least one or two things from Tony that lead you to say, "Holy shit, I've never looked at that aspect of my life that way." And it'll turn things upside down, and you will walk away with a completely different lens through which you can look at how you're living, how you're handling your business, and, uh, I think you will find tremendous value from this single interview. So I will leave it at that. You know, I don't wanna oversell it. I will say that for me, uh, Tony can be an intimidating guy, just in sheer size. He's a big dude, uh, and he can actually palm my entire face, and, uh, we have a [laughs] photograph of that that I'll share, but I get into that in the interview. Uh, he's also a very seasoned pro, and I have a lot of respect for him, so it takes me 5 or 10 minutes, I'd say, yeah, let's just say 10 minutes, to find my feet in this interview. When we hit our stride, then all sorts of gems come out, and there's a lot of good material in the beginning, but give it some time. Be patient. Listen to this whole thing. It is worth your time. So without further ado, I think I've had too much Laughing Coyote tea, here's Tony Robbins. All right, ladies and gentlemen, this is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. I have a very exciting episode for you, and a very exciting guest, Mr. Tony Robbins. Tony, thank you for having me in your home, of all places.
- TRTony Robbins
I'm glad to be home. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
That's a rare thing, much less to have you here. Grateful to have you here as well.
- TFTim Ferriss
And we have many different topics. I have many different questions I'd love to delve into. Of course, I, perhaps unbeknownst to a lot of my fans, have a long history with Tony Robbins, [laughs] but not in person.
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
This is the first. And for those of you who don't know some of the background, when I first graduated from school and moved to Silicon Valley to chase the billions that seemed just, th- that were being handed out in '99-
- TRTony Robbins
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
... uh, I worked-
- TRTony Robbins
They were in 1999. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
In 1999 they were, in a way, and I was driving a hand-me-down, beat-up green minivan from my mom. Uh, the seats got stolen from inside [laughs] or at least the back. So all my coworkers started, uh, harassing me and calling it the Molester Mobile.
- TRTony Robbins
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
And the, the job, the company didn't seem to be a long-term fit for me, and when I was on a road trip at one point, I bought Personal Power.
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
May have been Personal Power II.
- TRTony Robbins
Yes.
- TFTim Ferriss
And I started listening to it to and from work-
- TRTony Robbins
Wow
- TFTim Ferriss
... on my commute, which is terrible for those who don't know the Bay Area. If you're on 101-
- TRTony Robbins
Yes
- TFTim Ferriss
... [laughs] between San Jose and SF, it's, uh, horrible, and ultimately, that was one of the catalysts for me starting my first company. So-
- TRTony Robbins
Wow
- TFTim Ferriss
... so.
- TRTony Robbins
I'm really touched that. Knowing all that you've done, that really touches, touches me completely 'cause you've been an inspiring character to me.
- TFTim Ferriss
Oh.
- TRTony Robbins
Um, not The 4-Hour Workweek, 'cause I don't, I'm looking for the 4-Hour Sleep Week at this stage. [laughs]
- 10:07 – 14:25
On coaching the top 1%
- TFTim Ferriss
say, the top 1% of performers in the world.
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
And, uh, I, I read in your, your new book, which everyone should take a look at, we'll be delving into it a lot more as we progress in the interview, but, uh, there was a quote from, uh, uh, Mr. Benioff-
- TRTony Robbins
Yes
- TFTim Ferriss
... CEO of Salesforce, uh, who credits you with effectively if, if there were no Tony Robbins, there would be no salesforce.com.
- TRTony Robbins
That's pretty, pretty quite a point to make.
- TFTim Ferriss
Which-
- TRTony Robbins
I don't think he might have totally exaggerated, but he-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TRTony Robbins
... he kind of walked me through, 'cause it started very much like you, him, uh, on the freeway [laughs] in Silicon Valley-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah, yeah
- TRTony Robbins
... every day listening.
- TFTim Ferriss
And you get these, uh, you're able to, uh, reach such a high caliber of individual. When you meet with such people, whether they're, they're presidents, athletes like Serena Williams, Agassi, actors like Hugh Jackman, whoever it might be, um, Benioff's quote was, you know, "Tony said to me that the quality of my life was the quality of my questions." So what I would be curious to know is when you meet with these, uh, top performers, where do you start? What are the questions that you ask them?
- TRTony Robbins
Well, I ask questions before I meet them.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TRTony Robbins
The question I wanna ask before I meet them is, who are they? What are they made of? What are they after? What's preventing them from getting it? Where are their wounds? What is their deepest pride? Not in a negative way, like what are they proud of?
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TRTony Robbins
Try to find out as much as I can in advance so that I can be really effective and efficient when I meet them.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TRTony Robbins
When you meet somebody, yourself, myself, the most valuable thing we have is our time, so I try to be beyond respectful of that, but also I load my brain with all the distinctions I can so that when I enter into an interaction with someone and we're engaged, I have a disproportionate amount of information, ideas, insights, wisdom available to me, and then I can react to what's really happening in this moment. So I have what I think in advance, and then I have what, what the moment shows me, and I, I, I think the blend of that is really valuable. 'Cause in the moment, people can show up in all kinds of ways.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
You know, somebody can show up, the meanest person on earth can be kind in the moment. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
The kindest person can be very mean in the moment.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
So I really, I like t- I like to grab both those. And then what I wanna do when I meet them is I wanna Try and understand what is it that they really need, not only what they want.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
Um, because what you want, I'm sure you've experienced this, I have in my life, gotten what you want, and then you're like, "Is that what it is?" [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
You know, it's like, "What the hell?"
- 14:25 – 19:08
How to get out of a slump
- TFTim Ferriss
for instance, Paul Tudor Jones-
- TRTony Robbins
Yes
- TFTim Ferriss
... uh, legendary investor and trader-
- TRTony Robbins
Yes
- TFTim Ferriss
... or Agassi or anyone who's at the peak of their game and suddenly enters a slump-
- TRTony Robbins
Yes
- TFTim Ferriss
... uh, what are the commonalities, if any, that you've spotted in the best of the best who then cease for a period of time being the best of the best? What triggers that type of downslope?
- TRTony Robbins
Well, everybody's got different triggers. There are some common patterns, and one pattern is doing so well-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- TRTony Robbins
... that you go beyond your vision. And, uh, you know, it's the astronaut syndrome, you know? What do you do, uh, when you've, you know, you're 31 years old, you, you flew to the top of the mountain [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
Right
- TRTony Robbins
... you get on top, literally look back at the Earth and saw the picture we've all seen photographed, come back, shake the president's hand, have the ticker tape parade. And okay, now what do you do with the rest of your life?
- TFTim Ferriss
Right. Absolutely.
- TRTony Robbins
And so most of those astronauts, if you know their histories, they went through some really tough times. Some were alcoholics. Some got addicted to prescription drugs. Um, and so, you know, in some cases that's why I enter people's worlds is they've done so well. They've called the market, you know, almost hour [laughs] by hour a week in advance, and they made more money in a day than most people have ever dreamed of when everybody else lost their shirt.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
And everybody's wanting to know what to do. "Okay, I've done that. Now what do I do after I've called the market during the worst day in history?" You know? Most people lose momentum then-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm
- TRTony Robbins
... or they get distracted 'cause it's like we need something to go for. We all need what I call a compelling future, something that will get us up early [laughs] and keep us up late and excite us, at least the nature of a high performer. And if you don't have that, life feels f- very dead for those people. And so, um, you know, the president of the United States, I remember Bill Clinton saying to me, I was with him in Aspen and, um, I was there at a fundraiser, and he asked me to come visit him. And then he threw me in the car and he said, "Come down the hill with me." It was one of those serene moments and the, you know, lights are flashing. We come down Red Mountain in Aspen, if you know the area. And he's sitting across from me, and that's, uh, right after the blue dress incident had come out. And, uh, he says, "Tony," you know, he says, like, "I'm still so young." He said, you know, "What am I gonna do when I leave?" You know, "I'm not, you know, what am I gonna do in my 50s?" [laughs] It's just the wildest thing. I said, "If I were you, I'd get the hell out quick," because he's talking about, you know, "I'd, I'd run a third time if I could." And I was teasing him about it. But he found a compelling future, and Bill Clinton today has something even greater in his life that he's going for. So the slump shows when people outrun their vision.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TRTony Robbins
Or the slump can show when they meet their vision but it's not fulfilling.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TRTony Robbins
Or the slump shows when people just end up, uh, developing some patterns they're unaware of that cost them, and this can be so, such a small thing with an athlete that can occur. Um, and sometimes it shows, like a Tiger Woods, when something happens in their emotional life, and while they try to say, "I'm an athlete here, and I'm a human being over there," they don't separate. And so what I gotta do in those situations, regardless of what triggered it, is I've gotta come in and get them to reanchor in their nervous system what made them so effective. And then you understand myelin, the idea that the more you do something, the more you wire yourself. It's like m- the myelin, the, the white portion of the brain. It, it's almost like using, if I do something over and over again, I literally wire myself with this myelin. I'm, it's like having high speed, you know, cable in there, whatever the appropriate, I don't know what it is anymore, [laughs] what, what high speed really is these days, the proper term. But versus, you know, having dial-up.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
If you do something over and over again, you can process so much more rapidly. So I will find what, where is that myelin in that person? What specific pattern will hook them back up again to that part of their brain where it's effortless, to that part of their brain where they instate and they don't even think? You know, Andre Agassi was, decades and decades ago, he'd been number one in the world, and all of a sudden he dropped out. I remember he was number 19 or something at that stage. It's like '90, '91, '92, whenever it was. And, um, and nothing worked. And nothing worked because he kept working on his swing, and he kept working on his wrist, and he was really upset with his father, who was his coach.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
There was all these dynamics going nobody wants to talk about. He was actually to the point that he shared later on that he was thinking about quitting, you know-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TRTony Robbins
... playing the game. This is really early in his career. And, you know, he's gotten injured and, and, and Andre is very frustrated. And, and Brooke Shields brought him to me to- They were just dating at that time. And he said, "I don't need positive thinking." And he said, "You know what? You know, Tony's not positive thinking. He's gonna show you these strategies." So he comes to me, I sit down with him, and I said, I said, "Andre," he's telling me about how he's doing this. I said, "Think of a time you hit the tennis ball perfectly." I said, "Don't think about it. Go to it." I got him in state, got him kind of in that place where the myelin's being fired off, and then I said to him, "Okay, you feel that? You feel that?" "Yeah." I go, I said, "Were you thinking about your wrist?" He says, "No." I said, "Then how the hell would you think you would ever get back to that peak performance focusing on your wrist, right?" So I've got to get them back into the pattern that made it work, and then oftentimes I've got to help them resolve some other issue that's distracting them that is something else in their life that's pulling, pulling them apart from peak performance.
- TFTim Ferriss
His story is an amazing one. Uh, Open, the autobiography, is one of the, the best-
- TRTony Robbins
Isn't it wild?
- 19:08 – 26:16
Morning routine + cyrotherapy
- TFTim Ferriss
so s- looking at the longevity of your career, the, the s- the scope and scale of, uh, the, the Tony Robbins empire, so to speak-
- TRTony Robbins
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
... uh, the, your s- your endurance has really impressed me. And so I'm wondering, after these decades, what are your, some of your daily routines? For instance, what do you typically eat for breakfast, if it's up to you?
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah. [laughs] I have salad and fish. It's like standard. I'm boring as hell.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
Um, because I just know it's fuel.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
Um, now, now I, I, before I met my wife, w- we've been together for more than 15 years, um, I was completely anal.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
I was like, I hadn't had chocolate, I hadn't had ice cream in like 15 years, right?
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
I was just, just crazy. And then she came into my life, and I'll never forget, I thought, "God, this woman's incredible. She's a phlebotomist, you know, she does the blood. She's an acupuncturist. She's a nutritionist." We're having these green drinks, and we had this lunch, and that's where she ordered a hot fudge sundae.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
And I thought, "What in the hell are you doing?" She goes, "Living, you bastard." [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
You know? So she loosened my ass up just a bit, which was great because I loved her. So I, I, you know, she calls it zigging and zagging.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
We zig, zig, zig, and then she zags or we zag. Um, and when I was first with her, I was like, "You're zagging," we were traveling through Europe, you know, Rome and Italy and, and, uh, you know, various parts of, of France, south of France, and I was like, "You know, you seem to be zagging every day."
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
And she goes, "Well, I'm on vacation." And then later on, we were traveling. I said, I said, "You know, the problem is we're always traveling-"
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TRTony Robbins
... "so you're always on vacation."
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
But she's fit as hell, in great shape. But I, I'm fish, fish and, and, and salad. I'm, um, I'm a, you know, a high greens, you know, protein type of guy, very low carbs. Um, and my, but my regimen is I start with something to strengthen and jolt my nervous system every freaking day. [laughs] I will sometimes ease into it. I'll go in the hot pools and, you know, I'm fortunate enough to have multiple homes. My home in Sun Valley, I have natural hot pools that come out of the ground-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm
- TRTony Robbins
... just steaming hot. And I go in the hot pools, and then I go there in the river. Here, I go in a 57-degree, uh, you know, plunge pool that I have. And I have one every home I have, every one above 50.
- TFTim Ferriss
And this will be immediately upon waking up?
- TRTony Robbins
Waking up.
- TFTim Ferriss
Got it.
- TRTony Robbins
It'll just like, boom.
- 26:16 – 32:20
Tony’s priming ritual
- TRTony Robbins
I do before I do anything else with my day is I, I do what I call priming. And priming to me is, uh, different than meditating. I've never been really a meditator per se. I know the value of it. But the idea for me of sitting still and having no thoughts, it just didn't really work out for me. [laughs] Um, it was just a pain in the ass, and I just thought it's not natural, right? [laughs] It's like that's where it works. But when I'm in nature, I feel that form of meditation. When I stand on stage and someone stands up and my brain, it's done. I don't even know what it is, but person's suicidal. I've never lost a suicide, for example, in, you know, 37 years, knock on wood. Doesn't mean I won't someday, but I never have out of thousands, and we followed up with them. So it's like there's something that comes through me, and it's, and, and it's quite meditative. It's like I experience it as a witness, you know, afterwards. It's, it's one of the mo- beautiful gifts of my life. Um, so I know that meditation. Um, but for me, what priming is, if you wanna be, have a prime life, you gotta be in a prime state. And, uh, you know, weeds grow automatically. I don't give a damn what it is. My teacher Jim Rohn used to say that. And so what I do is I get up and I do a very simple process. I do an explosive change in my physiology. I've done the water already, right? Cold, hot. Then I do it with breath because as I'm... I know you know all forms of Eastern meditation, all understand that, that the mind is the kite and breath is the string. So if I wanna move that kite, I move the breath. So I have a specific pattern of breathing that I do. I do 30 of these breaths, um, and I do them at three sets of 30, [lips smack] and that creates a profound physiological difference in my body. And from that altered state, I usually listen to some music and, um, and I go for... I promise myself 10 minutes, and I usually go 30. [laughs] But-
- TFTim Ferriss
And do you do that in this room that we're sitting in or-
- TRTony Robbins
Uh, no, I do it all up... This one room is where I do it. This has got a great vibe. I'll do this one. I do it at night. I usually will go outside 'cause I love the wind on my face, and I love taking the elements and so forth. But I do it in multiple places. If I'm on the road, I do it. Doesn't matter what day. I always brea- I do not miss priming. The reason is I'm not, you know, like, you don't get fit by getting lucky. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
You don't get fit, fit by working out for a weekend. You, you know. You live your life that way. Fitness is 'cause it's becomes just part of who you are. So what I do during that time is I do three simple things, and I do it minimum 10 minutes. Three minutes of it is just me feeling, getting back inside my body and outside of my head, feeling the earth and my body and experience, and then feeling totally grateful for three things. And I make sure one of them is something very, very simple, the wind on my face, you know, the reflection of the clouds that I just saw there. But I don't just think gratitude. That's like, I let gratitude fill my soul. Um, because when you're grateful, as we all know, there's no anger. It's possibly angry and grateful simultaneously. When you, when you're grateful, there is no fear. You can't be fearful and grateful simultaneously. So it's, it's a, I think it is one of the most important power emotions of life, and also, to me, there's nothing worse than an angry rich man or woman. You know, somebody who's got everything and they're pissed off. I wanna slap 'em.
- TFTim Ferriss
Surprisingly high number though.
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah, it is-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TRTony Robbins
... because they, they develop a life that's based on expectation instead of appreciation.
- TFTim Ferriss
Agreed.
- TRTony Robbins
And I, I tell people, "You wanna change your life faster than trade your expectation for appreciation, and you have a whole new life." So every day I anchor that in, and I do it very deeply and emotionally. Then the second three minutes I do is a total focus on feeling, um, presence of God, if you will, uh, however you wanna language that for yourself. But this inner presence coming in and feeling that heals everything in my body, in my mind, my emotions, my relationships, you know, my finances. I see it as solving anything that needs to be solved. I experience the strengthening of my gratitude, of my joy, of my strength, of my conviction, of my passion, a- and I just let those things happen spontaneously. And then I focus on celebration and then service 'cause my whole life is about service. That's what makes me feel alive. So I flood myself with that, with a breathing pattern that I take that does the opposite. It takes the breath down through my body and back up again. And then the last three minutes are me focusing on three things I'm gonna make happen, my three to thrive. And I, I have some big things that I'll do, and sometimes I'll do things that are smaller, but I see them, feel them, experience them. So it's a really simplistic process. It's 10 minutes. But I come out of it in my power. It doesn't matter if I had two hours sleep, I'm now ready. You know? It doesn't... And I do this even when I have no sleep. I, that's how committed I am. Um, and as I say, I've always said, "There's no excuse not to do 10 minutes." [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
If you don't have 10 minutes, you don't have a wife.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
Right? And that's how I got myself to do it. And now that I've done it, you know, 20 to 30 minutes is almost always what it is 'cause it actually feels extraordinary.
- TFTim Ferriss
And where can people learn more about the breathing pattern, or could you describe it briefly?
- TRTony Robbins
I'm putting a link online 'cause I just started to share this just recently, and, uh, I'll get it for you. And I don't know what it is off the top of my head, but it'll be up shortly, I think this week.
- TFTim Ferriss
Okay, awesome.
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
And, uh, I will also put that in the show notes, guys. So that's just fourhourworkweek.com/podcast, and you'll be able to find this episode. Uh, on the... I have to ask, what type of music do you usually listen to during-
- TRTony Robbins
Uh, I have a variety, but for that meditation, I have one in particular, which is a oneness meditation that a friend of mine made. It, Fu's from India, that I find really profound. It has, um, no, uh, singing in it or anything like that. It's just the sound of a vibration that's going on, and, and I just love it. But in... That's what I'm doing currently. In the past, over the years, I've used all kinds of different pieces of music. But I don't use, uh, modern music or pop music or rock mu- I do that to work out.
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
Um, you know, rap. Um, I don't know, it just feels weird to be doing rap while you're meditating. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
But again, what's different is I don't look at as meditation 'cause I look at it as it's priming courage, love, joy. It's priming gratitude. It's priming strength. It's priming accomplishment. It's priming... You know, when I'm doing my gratitude piece, and I'm doing the circle of who's closest to me and, you know, circling that out to everybody I love and sending that energy and healing out to them as well. So to me, that's... If you want prime time life, you gotta prime daily.
- TFTim Ferriss
Uh, well, I like the, I like the term priming also because I think that most people who struggle with meditation or even attempt to use meditation are utilizing it for that purpose. They're doing it first in the morning.
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
And, uh, you know, when you said, "If you don't have 10 minutes, you don't have a life," it reminded me of something that Russell Simmons said to me, which was, "If you don't have 30 minutes to meditate, you need three hours." [laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
[laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
And, uh, I don't always do 30 minutes, but I do meditate in the morning, and it's been a con- very consistent pattern throughou- a- a- among all the people that I've interviewed so far on the podcast.
- 32:20 – 41:14
Misconceptions about Tony
- TFTim Ferriss
When people hear the name Tony Robbins, I, I think many different people have different assumptions or images, uh, in their, in their heads. What, what are the biggest misconceptions or the biggest misconception about you?
- TRTony Robbins
Oh, my God. [laughs] There would be so many, right?
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
Depends on who you talk to. You know, uh, when you've been in the culture at any level for any period of time, people put their projections out to what you are. And then also, you know, I didn't help myself. I did infomercials [laughs] for quite a period of time.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
But, you know, I didn't wanna do infomercials. It was just, I had these insights and skillsets, and I didn't have a... If I was a great singer, which I'm clearly not, um, there was a distribution channel, right?
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
I could do that. And if I wasn't bullshitting myself, I could rock the world. But in my world, it was write a book, which most people don't read, um, go do some speeches. So I looked around and saw these silly-ass infomercials, and I said, "These guys are a disaster." Tommy Vu, "Come be on my boat and watch me get these women, and I'm rich." And I'm like, "Oh, my God, this is disgusting."
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
So I thought, you know, if you really did something that was real and the kind of people I reach, you know, I don't have to pay for endorsements. They'll do it. You know, maybe people start to understand this is real, and maybe it'll help me reach people, and it did. It got me Bill Clinton. It got me Prince Diana. It got me, I mean, it got me a pretty amazing group of people at that stage. But also, you're known by the company you keep. So when you're between spray-on hair and, you know, [laughs] you know, whatever-
- TFTim Ferriss
Rotisserie chicken
- TRTony Robbins
... fake diamonds-
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
... you know, then you're, you know, you're seen as that. And also, I talk fast. I'm a passionate son of a bitch.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
And so I'm not talking fast because I'm trying to sell something. I'm talking fast because my brain functions at that speed, right? That's how my brain goes. Slowing it down is just so boring to me. I pro- the faster I go, the f- the stronger my brain becomes, the quicker I come to solutions. So, you know, when I'm most excited and wanna serve people, it speeds up. So that helps when you've got a room of people where you can move and modulate that energy. But when you're seeing somebody on TV, and they look like they're a crazy son of a bitch, and they're 6'7", and they got hands bigger than your head, you know, you start going, you know, "Who is this guy?" But the people that have actually, like yourself or Marc Benioff or, you know, President Clinton or whoever, who've, uh, you know, actually entered into my work, once they enter into my work, they go, "Oh, my God, this is very different." So I think most people think I'm an infomercial guy or a salesman or a motivator. I mean, I hate the word motivator. It is the bane of my existence, um, 'cause I've never been that. I've never... I don't believe you should just go pump yourself up. I believe in intelligence. I believe see things as they are. If you can see it as you are, you can't lead, right? But don't see it worse than it is, so you got an excuse not to try. And that's what most people do. They make it much worse than it is 'cause they're afraid of failing, so they come up with a reason why, a story why it's not there, and I don't tolerate that shit. I'm not the guy that says, "There's no weeds. There's no weeds." There isn't... I'm the guy who goes, "Let me show you where the goddamn weeds are, and let's pull these son of a bitches out right now and stop bullshitting. Let's do it, you and I. I'll do it with you."
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TRTony Robbins
That's my approach. I think most people think it's a pump-up approach because, you know, the media sees 10,000 people in a room, and they're jumping up and down, and, you know, you know, what is this piece? So that's because I believe that learning... I, I, I believe what I do for people at its essence when I do events is ECUB them. ECUB is I entertain them first because people in our society wanna be educated, but they'd much rather be entertained.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TRTony Robbins
So if I can rock you and get you to have an experience where you feel fully alive, then, and it doesn't matter who you are, you're, you know, you're from any stage of life, any socioeconomic background, then I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be able to have your education go deeper. And then so that's the second part. I give you the best education, the best tools. And the third one is I empower you. While you're in this state, I get you to do things-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TRTony Robbins
... that you won't forget, do things that will be in your body, do things that create momentum. So I think the m- the misconception, at least my perception, is they don't realize I'm really a strategist. I mean, I consider you a strategist. I, I know you're inspirational, everything else, but being inspiring is nice. Uh, you know, it's like motivation is, nothing wrong with it. It's like a warm bath. You should take one or you stink, you know?
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
But, but, uh, but that's not enough.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yes.
- TRTony Robbins
And it's never been what I've been about.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
But, you know, most people in our society are, are interesting. They... It's like, if you're looking to improve yourself, people in our world think that's natural. The average person's like, "What's wrong with you?" I remember I had the... I took a company public when I was, uh, what, 39 years old. Had a really wonderful hit, 400 million bucks. I mean, it was really extraordinary. And the man who ran my company, been the former, uh, CEO of CBS, brilliant guy, brilliant guy, Peter. And Peter, at one point, while we're in the midst of this company, he said, "I wanna go to Harvard, and I wanna take this extension course." You know, very wealthy guy, been head of one of the largest networks in, in the world and- Now heading up my company, and I remember three or four people were like, "Well, what's the matter? Why is he doing that? Has he lost his edge?" I mean, [laughs] right? It's like, versus life is growth, baby. If you don't keep growing-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TRTony Robbins
... you're gonna die. And, you know, but so most people are afraid of the unknown. They're afraid of I'm not looking good. I'm afraid to fail. And so that creates a challenge. But so I think the answer to your question is, uh, they don't know that I'm a strategist. They don't know how much I really care. They have no clue the depth of what I teach or the diversity of what I teach, subject, your body, your mind, your emotions, relationships, your finances. Um, they don't know the real impact or they don't know who I really work with. You know, the assumption is he's taking over weak people's minds and [laughs] pumping them up and giving them all this boozy acid.
- 41:14 – 45:30
A little can change a lot
- TRTony Robbins
up. And so my, part of my passion is to help people find that two millimeters, you know, that little tiny shift that changes it all. One of the people, I have these people that I've coached over the years that are the best in the world at what they do, and, and I, I'll take on clients who I think by touching them, I can touch a mass number of people. That's how I started with Paul Tudor 21 years ago. And, um, it has turned out really well with his Robin Hood group growing to-
- TFTim Ferriss
It's huge
- TRTony Robbins
... giving away a billion to, you know, la- over this time and the impact that it's had. But one of these people is one of the top, to give you an idea, um, facial surgeons in the world. And, uh, I remember I went to go see him one day for one of our sessions, and, uh, um, he was late, and I'm waiting, and no problem, I'm busy. And the nurse says, "He's gonna be a while." She says, "He said, uh, Dr. Heflin said, why don't you come in and watch?" And I said, "Wow, love that." So, you know, I get all scrubbed up, the whole thing, come in. He's got rock and roll music in there, and this guy is like an artist and a scientist mixed together in the most powerful blend with a giant heart. And I go in there, the music's blaring. He's, "Hey, Tony, how you doing?" He goes, "Watch this." And he cuts this one. He lifts this woman's face off.
- TFTim Ferriss
Oh, Jesus. [laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
[laughs] And I felt a little state change.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
And I was like, uh, you know, I stayed around for a few minutes just to, you know, to put up that I can handle this shit.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
And I said, "You know, I got a few calls I gotta make," right? [laughs] Got the hell out of there. So I'm in the... I go into his office. He goes, "Just use my office to make your calls." So I'm recovering in his office, going, "Holy shit, dude."
- TFTim Ferriss
Puke in the basket, and then you're using his office. Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
I'm not a squeamish guy-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TRTony Robbins
... but that was, I just wasn't prepared, right?
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah. [laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
So I'm sitting in his office and he's entered a stage of life where- You know, he, this is a guy, the Sultan of Brunei paid $2 million to fly him over like 15 years ago, 20 years ago, to do two of his family's faces. This is a guy that anybody in Hollywood who had the money, he, in those days, there was nobody but him, the best on earth, because he'd mathematically figured out how to trigger beauty by what you and I would call submodality. It's like a sharp shorthand for you, uh, an NLP term, right?
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
Those little triggers in the visual triggering device that affect kinesthetic change in a human being. And, um, and so I'm sitting at his desk, and he's got this manuscript, so I'm curious. The manuscript he's working on, and he wants to finally teach other surgeons, because he's old. He doesn't want it just himself anymore. He wants his material not to die. And he's got 100 and, maybe 150 pictures of the most beautiful women in the world in the last 20 years across culturally around the world, stars, movie stars in different countries. Then he's got the same thing for men. And then he's got all these drawings, and he showed that... This is ironic. He goes through, and he shows that he makes no more than seven changes ever, and the biggest change he makes is two millimeters.
- TFTim Ferriss
Huh.
- TRTony Robbins
And yet I saw an 84-year-old woman that looked like she was in early 50s and gorgeous, and that's all the changes he made on her. I'm telling you, it's mind-boggling. Like, for example, he knows that the measurement of the pupil of a woman's eye, if you measure that size, and you measure the distance below your nose to the top of a woman's lip, this is only for a woman, if that measurement is smaller than the pupil of their eye, men, when they look at this woman's face, are driven and sexually attracted to her. If it's the same size of pupil, there's attraction. If it's just two millimeters more, she has an average face. If it's more than two millimeters more, her face is what he calls butt-ass ugly. That was a technical term he used at that point. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
But, but so when I tell women this, they start measuring their eyes. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
So he makes this little change, and it creates that puckered feeling that men don't even know why. It's instinctive. It's just a triggering device that's instinctual that m- So he knows the seven. He knows the two millimeters. And it's like you take somebody 84, 50, and looking pretty damn hot, you know, maybe not to a 20-year-old, but a 30 or 40 or 50-year-old certainly, it's mind-boggling. So I've always learned it's like golf, right? You know, two millimeters, the difference between, you know, shanking way over here-
- TFTim Ferriss
Right
- TRTony Robbins
... or putting it on the green. So that's the whole thing. Victory is near.
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm.
- TRTony Robbins
But you, you gotta know that very often syntax is all that has to change.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
There's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with the core ingredients. Gotta sequence it differently.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah. So you mentioned a few things. The first is that, uh, hand bigger than someone's head or face. I think that for everyone listening, uh, at some point I would like to see if you can actually palm my face, and I'll put that out-
- 45:30 – 55:01
Inspiration behind “Money—Master the Game”
- TFTim Ferriss
and then I have a bunch of specific questions because this is the first book in 20 years?
- TRTony Robbins
20 years.
- TFTim Ferriss
20 years.
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
And I've read pretty much everything that you've put out that I'm aware of.
- TRTony Robbins
Yes.
- TFTim Ferriss
And I guess part of me, part of me thought a few things when I saw that this book was related to, to money, uh, and also referring to it as, uh, a game in some ways.
- TRTony Robbins
Yes.
- TFTim Ferriss
I thought, number one, what hasn't already been said?
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
There's so many books-
- TRTony Robbins
That's what the publisher said
- TFTim Ferriss
... there's so many books on money. And I think that, uh, perhaps undeservedly so, I, I feel like I understand a lot as it relates to investing and money, and I've read David Swensen.
- TRTony Robbins
Yes.
- TFTim Ferriss
I've, I've, I've read about his allocations. I've read the annual letters of Warren Buffett. I, I read the letters to shareholders from people like Howard Marks or other-
- TRTony Robbins
Yes
- TFTim Ferriss
... hedge fund managers. I know some of those guys.
- TRTony Robbins
Yes.
- TFTim Ferriss
Uh, so I saw a c- couple of names pop up that I recognized. And, uh, I was... And you said in the very beginning of the book, and this is t- I've tried to do stuff like this in the past, so I realize how hard it is. You're trying to write a book that the, the neophyte, someone who's never taken their finances seriously, will derive a lot of value from, and yet at the same time you say even very sophisticated investors will be able to get a lot out of this book. And I thought to myself-
- TRTony Robbins
He's full of shit. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
... oh, boy, this is really talking a big game.
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
And, uh, the, I mean, the interviews at the end of the book alone are worth-
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah
- TFTim Ferriss
... magnitudes of order more than the book itself. I mean, you've got Bogle. You've got Ray Dalio, who runs the, I believe it's still largest hedge fund in the world.
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah, largest hedge fund in the world.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
Largest mutual fund with Bogle. Largest hedge fund with, uh, Ray Dalio. Uh, Carl Icahn, who's, you know, Time Magazine put him on the cover as Master of the Universe. This guy that sends out one tweet, and Apple goes up 17 billion in an hour, right?
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
It's up 50%. I was out- he was out doing it again today.
- 55:01 – 59:14
How to feed 50 million people
- TRTony Robbins
I also am pretty passionate about taking care of people that society's forgotten, and I decided initially I wanted to, like, raise my game. They, they cut $8.7 billion from food stamps last summer. Most people don't even notice it. It's the equivalent of every family who's being supported going without food for one week out of the month for 12 straight months. And I've been supporting... I've, you know, my family was fed when I was 11 years old. I had no food. Family- this man came by and delivered a turkey and food, and he was just the delivery guy. Changed my life. It made me believe strangers care, so I cared about strangers. So I've been paying it forward, and I've fed 42 million people in 37 years. This year, I'm gonna feed 50 million people. And myself personally, I'd started with, I'm gonna advance the book. I'm gonna- I'm not gonna wait and sell books and see how it goes. I'm just gonna advance it all. Then I was like, well, I want- I don't wanna do 10 million. I wanna do 20 million, then 30. So now I'm doing 50 million, and I'm getting matching funds. I have Feeding America delivering the food, and I'm getting matching funds targeting 100 million people this year alone, and then I'm putting a system in place to sus- to sustain that. So doing this book has been opening up doors to thinking larger because when you're sitting with Carl Icahn and he goes, "Yeah, I just closed the deal today. I made $2 billion." 2 billion the day I was there. After only 18 months of investment, where he put in... I forgot, I forgot the number he started with, a small number, um, in Netflix.
- TFTim Ferriss
Netflix, yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
Right? He made it that day, and he's now putting all his money in Apple, and he does, you know, does a little tweet, and 17 billion of value goes up right away. Uh, or you're sitting with Kyle Bass, who took 30 million and turned it into 2 billion in two years in the middle of a subprime con- you know-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TRTony Robbins
... you know, uh, crisis.
- TFTim Ferriss
Good at the short game.
- TRTony Robbins
And he's telling me the deal. I was like, "Holy cow." I mean, I, I started learning things, which it changes the scale of your thinking. Sorry, I'm babbling here because what I want people to know is two things. Yes, I think this truly, if you give yourself the gift of this book, it's a category breaker. But, uh, it'll show you step by step how to go from where you are to where you want to be. If you're highly advanced, you're gonna learn out of the 55 plus, I say 50, but it's really 55 plus, Nobel laureate, self-made billionaires, hedge fund guys, biggest in the world. I put the 12 biggest in the book. And you know, I went to these guys with a, the promise of a 45-minute interview, and my average one was three hours, so I know how you function because I do the same thing.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
[laughs] Uh, but what was really cool was like, you know, you get with Carl, and I get down with Carl, and the first thing he does is he throws the video crew out. It's like, "Carl, what, what's the deal? I've never met him before." He's like, "No, I said video crew, but I just changed my mind." I go, "Okay, uh, how do we do the interview?" "Well, we'll do the audio." "No, I don't want the audio." No audio? How am I gonna do this interview?
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
"Just take your pencil and your pen here. Get over here," and he said, "I'll give you 10 minutes." Right? And you know, now we're dear friends, and it's, you know, three hours later, I'm out, you know, pictures with he and his wife and, you know, and he's saying, "You got a really- You got a way to help change this world." And, you know, and, and he endorses the book and supports it. So I want people to know that this has been a four-year journey of going to the smartest people on Earth and finding out the vast majority of them are incredibly genuine in wanting the average person to do well. They just didn't think there was anybody who could translate. And when they saw that I could, and I could pitch and catch with them, because I do 18 hours of prep before I sit down with Ray Dalio, uh, they were willing to share things that they'd never shared before. And later on, maybe we can talk about what I learned from Ray Dalio because it's pretty amazing.
- TFTim Ferriss
Oh, yeah. No, I, I do wanna talk about Ray. Uh, and fascinating guy. I, I mean, I'm, I'm so fascinated with the entire world. I mean, whether it's... And there's so many different breeds.
- TRTony Robbins
Yes.
- TFTim Ferriss
This is something that I want to talk about. But you have, say, the Paul Tudor Jones. For those who probably haven't ever seen a very old film, I think it's available, [laughs] like bootleg VHS, called The Trader-
- TRTony Robbins
Yes
- TFTim Ferriss
... is an amazing old-
- TRTony Robbins
Yes
- TFTim Ferriss
... documentary. You can find it. Uh, but you can see his style versus, say, you know, the high-frequency guys or a Renaissance-
- TRTony Robbins
Yes
- TFTim Ferriss
... uh, all PhDs, right?
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah.
- TFTim Ferriss
Outside of Wall Street.
- TRTony Robbins
That's right. Quants.
- TFTim Ferriss
And then, and then you have the, the, the, the Ray Dalio types and, uh, it's-
- TRTony Robbins
But they all have things in common if you look.
- TFTim Ferriss
S-
- TRTony Robbins
They all have different strategies. I mean, some are let's, let's [laughs] let's shake the tree of the corporate guys and make sure we get more value out of it, right?
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
You know, Carl. You know, and, and some guys are like Templeton. I got to interview him multiple times before he died. It's like wait for, you know, the bloodletting.
- TFTim Ferriss
No, blood in the streets. That's what he invests, yeah.
- 59:14 – 1:00:04
Richard Branson’s 1st business questions
- TRTony Robbins
stood out, and one is overly simplistic, and that's why people don't pay attention to it, but these guys pay attention to it. They don't lose. Half the key to awakening is not losing, and they are obsessed. Every single one of them is obsessed at not losing money. I mean, a level of obsession that's mind-boggling. And it, it isn't just these investors. You know, uh, Sir Richard Branson, for example, you know? People see Richard, and he's such an outgoing, playful, crazy guy. He's kind of an introvert in some areas, but when it comes to athletics and taking on challenges, he's out in the world. But, you know, his first question in every business is what's the downside and how do I protect it?
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
Like, when he did his piece with Virgin, I mean, that's a big risk. Gonna start an airline? He went to Boeing and negotiated a deal that he could send the planes back if it didn't work out and he wasn't liable. I mean, that's the level these guys think at. So they look to see how do I not lose money first? Because the average person has no clue. If I lose
- 1:00:04 – 1:03:01
The 50% investment loss
- TRTony Robbins
50% in 2008, well, guess what? You gotta make 100% to get even, not 50%, 'cause your principal's gone down so much.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
So it's like people don't understand. You lose 60%, it's 200% to get even.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
And so the average person, you know, lives in a world where they try not to lose money, but they're not obsessed. These guys are obsessed. Second thing they all have in common, every single one of them is obsessed with asymmetrical risk reward, which is a big word. It simply means they're looking to use the least amount of risk to get the max amount of upside, and that's what they live for. So I'll give you an example. Paul Tudor, when I first went to do the turnaround when Paul was having some challenging times, he'd broken his leg. You know, think about this. He did better than anybody in the history of the world during the biggest stock market drop in history, literally, and then he went to the mountain, he went to the moon. Now what? And so lost a bit of the edge and, you know, got involved in other things and so forth, and now he's got a broken leg. He's not going to the office. I gotta come in. So I had to go watch that film. That's the first thing I did. I went with-
- TFTim Ferriss
The white tennis shoes [laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
... I wanted to go see everything about him, study his physiology, the way he used to move, because this guy's not moving at all. What his face was like, how he breathed, tone of his voice. What were the physical strategies? What were the psychological strategy or the financial strategies? I got to go, you know, to Druckenmiller and Soros. I mean, who I got access to back then was unbelievable. See, what was he like then to put the plan together to do this turnaround? And When I started making those shifts in him, and you could see the shift happen immediately, it got really exciting. I got hooked on what was gonna happen. So as I, as I did this same process, basically that's what I was triggering. I'm thinking about two things at once. I did the same process during these interviews. I didn't just look at the trading strategies. I looked at the psychology of what set it up. But here's what I found with Paul Tudor at the very beginning of getting back on track. When he was at his best, he made sure every single trade had what he called a five to one. That means if he was gonna risk a dollar, he wasn't about to risk it unless he was certain he was gonna make five. Now, you're not always right, so guess what? If I risk a dollar to make five and I'm wrong, I can risk another dollar and I still make four. I can be wrong four times out of five and still break even.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
Their secret is not that they don't-- they're not wrong. It's they set themself up where they risk small amounts for big rewards proportionately. Paul, you know, if he's right one out of three times, he still makes 20%. So the average person risks a dollar trying to make how much?
- TFTim Ferriss
$1.10. [laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
That's right. About, about 10. If I could get 10%, wow, my dollar, right? 20% would be unbelievable. How often can you be wrong?
- TFTim Ferriss
Not very often. [laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
No, not at all. Right? You're in the hole. You're starting from the hole, then you gotta build back up. So their asymmetrical worth... Like, I was with Kyle Bass, and Kyle Bass risked, check this out, in the middle of the subprime crisis, he made $2 billion out of 30 million because he risked, for every six cents he risked, he had an upside of a dollar.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
Six cents for a hundred. Well, you could be wrong 15 times-
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah
- TRTony Robbins
... and you're still okay in that area. I mean, he was brilliant to figure it out.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
He's a genius to figure it out. But that risk reward is why it is. He showed his kids. He taught-- I said, "How do I teach this to the
- 1:03:01 – 1:08:30
Cost vs. worth
- TRTony Robbins
average investor?"
- TFTim Ferriss
Investor, yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
And he said, uh, "Well, you could teach them the way I taught my kids." And I said, "How'd you do that?" He goes, "We bought nickels." I said, "What do you mean you bought nickels?" He said, "Well, I did research. I had this question." That's another thing that all these guys do. They ask a better question, that we talked about, and they get better answers, right? Better quality question, better quality answer. What's wrong with me? You'll come up with stuff. How do I make this happen no matter what? You'll come up with different answers. So his question was, where in the world is there a riskless trade with total upside?
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
And he started looking around, and he said, "I'm worried about inflation," so he decided, well, gosh, of all the currencies in the world, a nickel, what it's made of today, it's not made mostly of nickel, by the way. He said, "It's costing the US government nine and a half cents to make a nickel." That's how our government functions, [laughs] right? Wanna spend almost 10 cents to make something worth half as much, right?
- TFTim Ferriss
The Pentagon plan. [laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
Yeah, that's right. It's the perfect plan. So he said, "But you know what? Just the actual material value-
- TFTim Ferriss
Mm-hmm
- TRTony Robbins
... right, is 6.8," or whatever it was, six something, six and a half we'll call it for round numbers. So he said, "If I buy a nickel, it's never going less than a nickel unless you believe the US government's gone. So I've got something that never goes down in value. So I got a guaranteed return. You know, I'm not gonna lose my principal. But day one, it's worth 36% more than the day I bought it." How many investments can you have 100% guarantee of no loss and have 36%? I said, "Yeah, but that's smelt value, and I saw they passed a law a few years ago." Uh, I think Charlie Rangel, whoever it was, was, was the one who pushed it through. And he goes, "Yeah, but Tony," he said, "that doesn't matter." He said, "Let me tell you why." He said, "Look at pennies. When they changed it from pure copper to tin and all the things they've changed, what happened to the old pennies? There's a scarcity of them, and now a penny from those days is worth two cents. It's 100% more valuable." So he said the, at some point the government cannot continue to do something that costs twice as much. Some point they'll make a change in the materials, and then all these nickels are worth an unbelievable amount. So he said, "I was just showing my kids, here's a risk. You, you need to think different than everybody else. Don't think, 'I have to take huge risks for huge rewards.' Think, 'How do I take no risk and get huge rewards?'"
- TFTim Ferriss
Right.
- TRTony Robbins
And because you ask that question continuously, and you believe an answer, you get it. So, you know, I, I... He said, "Listen, if I could put my en- convert my entire wealth in nickels right now," [laughs] he said, "I'd do it." I said, "You're insane." He goes, "I am insane, but it's the best possible fundamental investment." He started telling me how to do it. He bought 40 million nickels.
- TFTim Ferriss
Wow.
- TRTony Robbins
He has 40 million nickels.
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs]
- TRTony Robbins
It fills up a room bigger than this, right?
- TFTim Ferriss
It'd be on the ground floor.
- TRTony Robbins
And he had, and he had his kids dragging them in, and everyone else laughing, having fun. I mean, it's like their little treasure room.
- TFTim Ferriss
So he can legitimately do, like, the Scrooge McDuck backstroke through a pool full of nickels.
- TRTony Robbins
He can, real nickels. [laughs]
- TFTim Ferriss
[laughs] So-
- TRTony Robbins
So, so that's asymmetrical.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
I'll give you one more, and I'll shut the hell up. I don't-
- TFTim Ferriss
No, no, no. I'd love to hear it
- TRTony Robbins
... but I want, you, you asked me what the... You told me the differences. I want... You know, there are differences.
- TFTim Ferriss
Yeah.
- TRTony Robbins
We can spend hours and hours on the differences, but what I think is useful is what's aligned because then it gives something universal that can be applied to everything.
- TFTim Ferriss
Absolutely.
- TRTony Robbins
Um, the other one for them is they absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt know they're gonna be wrong. You will look at these talking heads on television and people screaming at you and hitting bells and telling you what to buy, and they're right, right, right. The best on earth, the Ray Dalios, right? The, the Pabels, the, you know... I don't give a who you talk about. Uh, you, you wanna look at Carl Icahn. They all know they're gonna be wrong, so they set up an asset allocation system that will make them successful. They all agree asset allocation is the single most important investment. There wasn't one person, uh, in terms of your vehicle, that it wasn't the most important thing. No matter how they attacked it, asset allocation was the element there. And the last one is they are, they're lifelong learners. I mean, these people are machines. Like you, like me, like Peter, like most of the people you and I share as friends, they just are obsessed with knowing more. And because the more they know, the more they realize what they didn't know, and then they apply that, and they go to another level. And every time you think you're the best you can be in anything in life, your body, your emotion, your spirit, your finances, there's always another level, and these guys live by it. And then the last one that I found almost all of them were real givers. Um, not just givers on the surface like money givers. That's wonderful. Um, but really passionate about giving. And it showed up once they saw what I was doing was legitimate and was really real. That, I mean, then they're opening up three hours of their time with something money of these guys will never get.
- TFTim Ferriss
Oh, yeah. I mean, their hours are worth a lot.
Episode duration: 1:08:30
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Transcript of episode A7jOqYWJUKg
