Wim Hof Interview (Full Episode) | The Tim Ferriss Show (Podcast)

Tim Ferriss 0:01 So I'm recording. Uh, could you just tell me maybe what you had for breakfast?

Wim Hof 0:04 Yeah, nothing. I had nothing for breakfast.

Tim Ferriss 0:07 [laughs]

Wim Hof 0:08 I never eat, uh, breakfast.

Tim Ferriss 0:09 Okay.

Wim Hof 0:10 Only, yeah, uh, just once a day.

Tim Ferriss 0:12 All right, we're gonna talk about that for sure. Let me just pause this. [beeping] Optimal minimal. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I ask you a personal question?

Speaker 0:23 Now would have seemed an appropriate time. What if I did the opposite? I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton. The Tim Ferriss Show.

Tim Ferriss 0:39 This episode is brought to you by Audible, which I have used for years. I love audiobooks, and I have two to recommend right off the bat. Number one is perhaps my favorite audiobook of all time, and that is The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman, the only audiobook I've wanted to immediately listen to a second time as soon as I finished. It's amazing. You will thank me. The Graveyard Book. The second is Vagabonding by Rolf Potts, which had a huge impact on my life and formed the basis for a lot of what became The 4-Hour Workweek. So all you need to do to get your free audiobook and a free 30-day trial is go to audible.com/tim, and you can choose one of those two books, The Graveyard Book, Vagabonding, or more than 180,000 audio programs. So that could be a book. That could be a magazine. That could be a newspaper. It could be a class. It's that easy. Go to audible.com/tim. That's audible.com/tim, and grab a book. Enjoy. This episode is brought to you by a new sponsor, so listen up, folks. This is a good one because have you ever wanted to be as powerful as a mullet-wearing ninja from a 1980s movie, or as flamboyant as Big Gay Al, Big Gay Al in South Park, or as sleek as a black panther in the Amazon on the hunt? Well, there's great news because I've been testing this product that you wrap around your genitals, and it makes you feel like a superhero, and it is called MeUndies. I've spent the last two to three weeks traveling with underwear from these guys, and they are comfy. I gotta tell you, it feels like a geisha is giving your groin a hug. And it's not just for dudes, but if you go to meundies.com/tim, that's M-E-U-N-D-I-E-S.com/tim, you can see all of the underwear that I've been wearing. There's some pretty ridiculous ones, and, uh, I will also highlight my favorite. You'll probably be able to guess which it is. These underwear are made from micromodal, which is extruded from Austrian beechwood trees in the Alps. Yes, fancy. And it's two times softer than cotton, scientifically tested using the Kawabata method developed in Kyoto. You know those Japanese, very crafty. And, uh, I will say a few things. Number one, if you go to meundies.com/tim, you get to see all of the spectacular underwear that I've been wearing, and I am a bit of an underwear connoisseur. Socks, fashion sense with sweatpants, not so much. Underwear, I understand. So check them out. And if you go to meundies.com/tim, you will also be able to see lots of hot ladies wearing MeUndies female underwear, and that's just

Tim Ferriss 3:10 a lot of goodness for both the men and the women out there. So check it out, meundies.com/tim. I love these underwear. And, uh, I am going to be packing tonight probably six to 12 pair to take with me to Australia. They're great. Check them out, meundies.com/tim. [echoing] Why, hello, lemurs and leprechauns. This is Tim Ferriss, and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers, whether they are actors like Arnold Schwarzenegger, military strategists or generals like Stanley McChrystal, chess prodigies like Josh Waitzkin or, in this particular case, a miracle worker of sorts. In fact, you could say he is a daredevil. Wim Hof, otherwise known as The Iceman, is a Dutch world record holder, adventurer, certainly daredevil, and he's nicknamed The Iceman for his ability to withstand extreme cold. Uh, he's the creator of the Wim Hof Method and holds more than 20 world records. He is, in my mind, the outlier of outliers, not because he does so many absurd things and proves that these impossibles are, in fact, possible, but he routinely asks scientists to scrutinize and validate these feats. That's what makes him very, very unique and very interesting for this type of conversation. What are some of his feats? Well, in 2007, he climbed past the death zone altitude on Mount Everest, which is around, uh, 7,500 meters, wearing nothing but shorts. 2009, he completed a full marathon above the polar circle in Finland in temperatures close to -20 degrees Celsius, again, dressed in nothing but shorts. [laughs] He holds the Guinness World Record for the longest ice bath, which is around, uh, one hour 53 minutes and 12 seconds. But it's not just cold. He has run full marathons in the Namib Desert without any water. He has also had toxins injected into himself under doctor supervision and demonstrated that he can effectively control his autonomic immune response. This is crazy talk. Uh, these are things that fly in the face of many textbooks, and now he is featured in textbooks himself because he has documented all of this. And it's not just a Wim specialty. He is not a mutant. Uh, he is able to train others to achieve many of these same effects and abilities, in some cases, with just four days of training. So we'll dig into all this and more. I loved this conversation. He is a human guinea pig of human guinea pigs certainly and makes me feel like an amateur. So without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Wim Hof. [echoing] Welcome to the show, Wim. I'm so pleased to have you.

Wim Hof 5:37 Great. Thank you for welcoming me this way. Thank you very much.

Tim Ferriss 5:41 I've been a fan for quite a few years because we have, uh, as we mentioned before we started recording, a mutual friend in Ray Cronise, and he was in my second book. So I looked very closely at cold exposure, and of course, you, The Iceman, came up over and over again. So it's really nice to finally chat with you. It's, uh, I feel like it's been a long time coming. And also had two past guests or three past guests on this podcast, uh, Laird Hamilton and Brian McKenzie and also, um, Gabby Reece, uh, Laird's wife, who are big fans of your methods and techniques, who've been practicing it.

Wim Hof 6:19 Wow.

Tim Ferriss 6:20 So they are, uh, you, you have a lot, a lot of fans out there I'm sure listening as well. And I thought we could just start with, uh, your name. I've always loved your name. Is Wim your full name?

Wim Hof 6:32 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 6:32 It is.

Wim Hof 6:33 W-I-M, Wim.

Tim Ferriss 6:34 And, and does that, does it have, uh, any particular meaning, or how did your parents choose that name?

Wim Hof 6:39 Wim is a, a common name in, uh, in, in Holland, uh, in the Netherlands. Uh, uh, but I looked it up, uh, and, uh, it says it's the protector of the people. You know, any name has got some etymological, uh, uh, roots to it. My name is, uh, the, the protector of people. My brother's name, who is my twin brother, is Andre. Andre, en francais. Uh, uh, Andre. Andrew, like Andrew. He is the protector of goods. So who's better? I don't know. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 7:14 I supp- I suppose you need both. You need [laughs] both-

Wim Hof 7:17 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 7:17 ... types of protection, right? And, uh-

Wim Hof 7:19 Yes

Tim Ferriss 7:20 ... you have, uh, such a fascinating story, and you have a lot of accolades, a lot of records. I think more than 20 world records at this point it seems.

Wim Hof 7:29 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 7:30 Uh, what was the first world record that you set?

Wim Hof 7:33 The first was in Paris, uh, just staying half-hour in, uh, immersed in ice. And, uh, 12 days later, I repeated, uh, uh, the record time and, and make it, uh, made, made, made it, uh, an hour in, uh, Hollywood actually.

Tim Ferriss 7:52 [laughs]

Wim Hof 7:53 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 7:54 And I saw one also, I mean, you've, you've been, you've spent a lot of time in ice baths, and I've, uh, uh, largely influenced by you and a handful of other people, Tim Noakes, Ray. Am a, a huge fan of ice baths, and my fans always complain about it, but I've seen you in so many containers full of ice. I saw one where it looks like there was a lot of Chinese or Japanese in the background. Um, what is, what has been the most challenging cold exposure, uh, experience that you've had, whether it's for records or anything else?

Wim Hof 8:24 Maybe, uh, losing my sight while I was swimming underneath, uh, a ice deck of, uh, almost one meter. Uh, uh, I had no goggles on.

Tim Ferriss 8:36 [laughs]

Wim Hof 8:37 So I lost sight at 35 meters, something like, uh, uh, 40 yards. And, uh, I lost the hole.

Tim Ferriss 8:45 [laughs]

Wim Hof 8:45 And, uh, yeah, [laughs] things like that. Shit, shit happens.

Tim Ferriss 8:49 [laughs]

Wim Hof 8:49 It happened over there, right there.

Tim Ferriss 8:51 [laughs]

Wim Hof 8:51 With a meter ice deck, uh, above me. So, uh, yeah, that was some great experience. Another one was, uh, losing my, uh, way, uh, on Mount Everest in shorts at, uh, uh, at, uh, like 18,000 feet in a, i- in a blizzard.

Tim Ferriss 9:11 [laughs]

Wim Hof 9:11 In a, like a whiteout.

Tim Ferriss 9:13 [laughs]

Wim Hof 9:14 So things like that happen, yeah.

Tim Ferriss 9:16 [laughs]

Wim Hof 9:16 And, uh, they are challenging, but then it throws me back to, you know, the depth of myself to, which is trust and confidence.

Tim Ferriss 9:26 And-

Wim Hof 9:26 And I got it

Tim Ferriss 9:27 ... what do you say to yourself in one of those moments? So f- I guess physiologically, did your, did your retinas just freeze or... When you were swimming under the ice deck, uh, in a, in a moment like that when many people would panic, I mean, did you panic? If so, how... What was the mental self-talk when-

Wim Hof 9:45 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 9:45 ... you realized that was happening?

Wim Hof 9:46 Very interesting. Uh, this, the stress level at the, at that moment is absent. It's not there. I'm just dealing with the situation.

Tim Ferriss 9:57 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 9:57 And, uh, it has been shown in the university that our stress levels, the stress hormone levels, are able to be raised, uh, lying in bed more than somebody in fear for the first time going into a bungee jump. And those-

Tim Ferriss 10:16 Oh, going into a bu- on, on a ju- doing a bungee jump for the first time?

Wim Hof 10:20 Yeah, yeah. Uh, not me, but because a bungee jump, yeah, you, you are attached. But very unexpected situations in, in nature, like a blizzard or swimming beneath, uh, ice and, uh, losing, uh, the hole because your eyesight is gone, things like that, or, uh, climbing without gear, uh, steep mountains and, uh, having cramps. And what do you do at that moment? Uh, uh, that, that's exactly what I learned, how to raise consciously the stress hormone level purely controlled, and I'm able to deal with the situation at that moment, uh, without panicking. And I think that's one of the crucial findings which could benefit for human mankind as it is, you know, uh, very subjected to stress all the time, panicking, having fear, and all that. And I learned in nature how to deal with that. And the cold brought me, uh, b- brought me that science, brought me that, uh, knowledge, wisdom actually.

Tim Ferriss 11:29 And the, the raising of stress hormones, so, so controlling something that has long been thought to be part of the autonomous nervous system, something that you have no control over, right? And we'll get to the breathing, 'cause breathing is very interesting since it's both au- autonomous, but you can, you can consciously control it and practice different methods. Uh, I think it was, it was certainly in the Vice documentary that recently came out, which I recommend to everyone and I'll link to in the show notes. But was it in 2011 that you were injected with some type of virus or bacteria to-

Wim Hof 12:01 Exactly

Tim Ferriss 12:01 ... see if you could control the immune response? That was at the, uh, Dutch, I'm gonna mispronounce this, the Radboud University?

Wim Hof 12:07 Exactly. Radboud University in Holland, and, uh, a intensive care nuclear science. I, uh, underwent a, an experiment, and they injected me with a endotoxin.

Tim Ferriss 12:22 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 12:22 With a toxin actually, which is a part of a bacteria, and that creates a, a very dramatic, uh, immune response. And as we have no control over the immune response i- in our body, they thought I was not able to do it as well as expected because nobody showed to be able to suppress the immune response because it is part of the autonomic nervous system.

Tim Ferriss 12:52 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 12:52 And, uh, uh, uh, nobody is able to do that until now. I showed Uh, that I was very able, within a quarter of a hour instead of hours, uh, suffering from uncontrolled shivering, fever, headaches, and all, all that, uh, I show within a quarter of a hour, uh, to have, uh, control complete over the symptoms and, uh, also the cytokines, which is are, which are the inflammatory beings in the blood-

Tim Ferriss 13:23 Right

Wim Hof 13:23 ... created by the immune response. And I showed in the blood and by blood results to suppress them dramatically, uh, within a quarter. Then they told me, "Okay, but you are an exception that confirms the rule because you, yeah, you know, you have been training so many years. You are The Iceman. You do exceptional, uh, features, but nobody is able to do that without that proper training of so many years." And I told them, "No, I can train them within 10 days." And then the professor was really challenged because if this group would show to be able, within 10 days, uh, to, uh, uh, be able to influence deeply into the autonomic nervous system related to the immune system, then that's for the first time in the scientific history. So but he, he saw the indication of the possibility, uh, but still thought, "Those guys are not gonna be able to do that within 10 days." And you know what? It, it wasn't within 10 days. It was in with four days of training that I made them able to undergo the same experiment, that, uh, that means, uh, the, the injection of the endotoxin, and have them within a quarter of a hour completely control over their immune system related to the autonomic nervous system. So they showed a 100% score of everybody to be able, within a couple of days, to go in, to tap into the autonomic nervous system related to the immune system. And yeah, and the training, about the training, uh, b- b- prior to it, uh, we had our beers, you know, in the evening and, uh-

Tim Ferriss 15:25 [laughs]

Wim Hof 15:26 ... a, a, a, a lot of music and, uh, w- very relaxed and, a- and their mindset, I said, "Hey, guys, uh, probably you, uh, you guys are the new gladiators, uh, where we are going to win the, the worst war ever, which, uh, produced, uh, uh, uh, um, uh, the much, uh, the, the most casualties, agony, pain, and all that, and that's the bacteria."

Tim Ferriss 15:55 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 15:55 "That's the bacil. That's the virus, and we gonna win this war. Are you with me?" I, uh, that's the way I talk to them, and so they had a mindset. So in the evening we had a relaxing... Uh, it was like a hippie movement, but this is a new revolution. And in four days' time, they were able, at the fourth day, without prior experience in the cold, they were able to go in, uh, shorts at, by, by minus 10, that's about, I don't know, in, uh, in, uh, Fahrenheit, Celsius. This is Celsius. Uh, it means freezing cold.

Tim Ferriss 16:37 Yeah. Yeah.

Wim Hof 16:37 And-

Tim Ferriss 16:37 It's probably in the 20s. Probably in the-

Wim Hof 16:39 Yes, in the 20s

Tim Ferriss 16:40 ... below freezing.

Wim Hof 16:41 In the... Yes.

Tim Ferriss 16:42 Yeah.

Wim Hof 16:42 And then, uh, uh, for hours and hours, we were, uh, going uphill and up the mountain, and we arrived at the summit after hours, and it was minus 27. Minus 27 Celsius. That, uh, that is, uh, more than, uh, minus, uh, th- and, and then 20. It's, uh, probably 10, so- something like that.

Tim Ferriss 17:04 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 17:05 And we danced the Harlem Shake up, uh, up there.

Tim Ferriss 17:07 [laughs]

Wim Hof 17:08 Then I knew these guys, these guys are ready. In four days' time when they will be, uh, internalized in the, in the hospital and, uh, um, injected with the endotoxin, they will be able, because I feel when somebody is, uh, back into its natural state of his or hers physiology.

Tim Ferriss 17:32 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 17:32 And now I know how to do that. The, the, the cold trained me. The cold is my teacher.

Tim Ferriss 17:38 And with the-

Wim Hof 17:39 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 17:39 ... with these subjects, I'm so curious to ask because, uh, the, uh, I mean, I am certainly not as proficient as you are in any of these techniques, but I've, I've enjoyed experimenting over the last 10 years and writing about these short experiments, whether it's related to breath holding with David Blaine or, or, or other aspects. Um, obviously, you're a professional, and I am not, but I'm so... I'd be, uh, very curious to hear you, uh, perhaps elaborate, for instance, on the first day of training with these subjects bef- uh, in preparation to be injected four days later.

Wim Hof 18:13 Sure.

Tim Ferriss 18:14 Uh, what did the first day of training look like for them?

Wim Hof 18:18 Um, just in the morning, at east, at 8:00, without food intake, we do, uh, breathing, and they lie on the ground all because that's the most relaxed, uh, pose. And, uh, if you are relaxed, you are able to store up, uh, whole much, whole, uh, lot more, uh, oxygen than when in tension or in posture. So I say to them, uh, uh, "Just lay down. Now relax. Now we are going to begin. Just breathe in deeply and let go. Breathe in deeply. Let go. Make it a rhythm. Breathe in deeply. Let go. Not fully out, but fully in." And let go. And, uh, re- repeat that about 30, 40 times until these indications or symptoms, uh, come by, and that, it means lightheadedness, loose in the body, feeling loose in the body, tingling, contractions. That's because carbon dioxide goes out, oxygen is roaming freely throughout the body, and the pH levels rise. They are optimized, so they get to their best condition. And, um, that's proven. That's proven. And they saw, uh, uh, when we do this, uh, they saw, they saw all these results chemically. Then once you feel positively charged with all these symptoms of lightheadedness, feeling loose, contractions, and tingling in the body, I ask them, "Just breathe in deeply, let go. And now the last time, breathe in deeply, [inhales] and let go." And after letting go, after exhalation, stop. Refrain from breathing. There's no need. We get a whole lot of oxygen, and, uh, uh, measurement devices are not able to detect how much. It's more than 100%, that's my opinion, but devices still are not able to detect that. They only can go up to, uh, 100%, as they say. But the 100%, the, uh, body is able to store up more oxygen than measurement devices of now are able to, uh, measure.

Tim Ferriss 20:56 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 20:56 So then after one and a half minutes, uh, th- then you see that the measurement device shows 100%, and then it goes dramatically down afterwards.

Tim Ferriss 21:08 And you're using a pulse oximeter, like something that you clip on your finger?

Wim Hof 21:12 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 21:12 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 21:12 Yes. Pulse oximi- So, so you need a heartbeat. You have a heartbeat, and you have the saturation of the oxygen in, inside the blood, so the amount of oxygen. So after one and a half minutes, you see with everybody that the, uh, saturation of the blood is going down. And, you know, people with COPD-

Tim Ferriss 21:35 Mm

Wim Hof 21:35 ... that, that's lung diseases and all that, they, they suffer from real severe COPD when they have 85. We go to 90, to 80, 70, 60, 50. People die at 50 and 40. Uh, uh, 40% saturation in the blood. We go past. We ge- go even to 30, and then the device, measurement device, the oximeter, shuts down. It is not measuring anymore, but we even go past that point.

Tim Ferriss 22:08 Now, why don't you-

Wim Hof 22:09 Uh.

Tim Ferriss 22:09 Why don't the subjects pass out at this point?

Wim Hof 22:12 Uh, they don't pass out, uh, because they are alkaline.

Tim Ferriss 22:17 I see.

Wim Hof 22:17 Their, uh, their pH degrees, uh, uh, are really perfect at that moment. And in- instead of a, a person who is dying is very acidic.

Tim Ferriss 22:28 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 22:29 So that's the difference. So, uh, because we are so alkaline, people m- maybe sometimes are able to pass out, but just two seconds or three seconds because they get, uh, uh, they are out of their conditioned control.

Tim Ferriss 22:46 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 22:48 Uh, but in a, in a... You know, after exercising, they have a re- uh, regain, not only control in those moments and, and those situations, they re- uh, they win a new part in the brain. They get in very deep in the brain, and it's all new terrain.

Tim Ferriss 23:06 Right.

Wim Hof 23:06 It's like a baby. A baby has no problem with the, with their legs, but there are no motoric, motorical neurons to the legs yet-

Tim Ferriss 23:17 Right

Wim Hof 23:17 ... established. So, uh, we are going into different parts of the brain where there is, where the, the guy or the, the, the, the, uh, the girl never has been.

Tim Ferriss 23:29 Right.

Wim Hof 23:29 So it's logic that the... And people are able to pass out, but nothing happens because they are alkaline.

Tim Ferriss 23:36 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 23:36 So they just wake up, and mostly, uh, uh, or mostly, almost always, they wake up very happy. And, uh, it, it's like a drug, uh, experience.

Tim Ferriss 23:49 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 23:49 So but that's besides of the real effect I'm, uh, trying to, uh, not, not trying, wh- uh, which we showed scientifically, is to be able to tap into the immune system in all the layers. Those are three layers, and normally, uh, we are not able to get into the second and the third layer. And I say now we have found a key to the, uh, second and the, and the third layer. That means the nonspecific immune system and the specific adaptive immune system. And that makes us looking to disease completely different because our ability is so much more. And, and, and we have been, um, uh, publishing, uh, uh, people in Boston, they published it throughout America on the universities, Chapter 22 on Biology Now. And it tells that we have tapped into the autonomic nervous system, into the innate, innate immune system, which was up till now not possible. And we did it 100% with a group of nine people, uh, showing that they were very able to do it all, all of them within a quarter of an hour, and have spectacular results. So- ... uh, that it is science now, and now it needs to get to every person in the world.

Tim Ferriss 25:22 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 25:22 How to tap into the deeper layers of our physiology without training, you know, years and years and years and being yogis or being, uh, these super athletes and all that. No. My aim is within a couple of days, we are all able to tap into the deepest layers of our physiology and reset our immune system, bring it under our will, and that's my aim. But then, uh, we make fun too, uh, uh, and all that, but for ser- uh, being serious, that's my goal.

Tim Ferriss 26:02 Right. No, I was just gonna say, I mean, it's very hard to get the... I think you're approaching it in a very intelligent way because it's, it's very hard to get truly serious work done if you're serious all the time, so [laughs]

Wim Hof 26:12 Yeah. Yes

Tim Ferriss 26:13 ... I, I, I enjoy... It's very fascinating for me as a teacher to watch how you coach your subjects because you use beer, you have guitar, and, uh, I think it's a very important component. Um, it, it would-

Wim Hof 26:28 Yes

Tim Ferriss 26:28 ... you seem to be. And I wanted to ask you about the breathing on day one just one more time, which is-

Wim Hof 26:34 Yes

Tim Ferriss 26:34 ... is, is the breathing exercise on day one something that then the subjects use during the injection or before the injection, or is it an exercise to prove to them that they can do more than they think they can do and it's more of a confidence builder that you use to set the tone for the rest of the training?

Wim Hof 26:55 Yes, both. So it's a confidence builder and is very effective at the moment when something, uh, like an injection has come in and they know it will result in a dramatic, uh, immune response and they have to build up and, and make alert their shield or their prote- protective, uh, uh, uh, lines of, uh, of defense, which is the immune system. Yes, so both. Both.

Tim Ferriss 27:25 And is this something that you can do after the fact? So for instance, um, at this point with your, uh, your level of proficiency, if you were to contract a disease without realizing it and then to get very sick, would you be able to reverse that? Or is it something that needs to be, uh... Is that sh- Does the shield need to be activated beforehand in order for you to control that autonomous, so-called r- autonomous response?

Wim Hof 27:54 I- interesting. Uh, ve- very nice. Uh, it's both preventive and healing. So once a, a, a, a specific hormone or a molecule must be generated to get to a, a, an, a, an, an invader-

Tim Ferriss 28:11 Mm-hmm

Wim Hof 28:12 ... a non-self invader in the body, which could be a bacteria, a virus, or a bacill, which got through the first se- uh, uh, two lines of defense, then the third line is more specific. But it takes normally, like weeks or sometimes, uh, it's not traceable because, uh, a, a, an invader is mutating. But, um, we have now, uh, a method that is able to tap into the third layer and make the nons, uh, the specific, uh, adaptive immune system, uh, uh, rapidly active-

Tim Ferriss 28:51 Mm-hmm

Wim Hof 28:51 ... even after, uh, something comes in. Uh, so, uh, it's both, uh, preventive, uh, but it is also when you feel you become sick, so a, an invader has go- gotten in-

Tim Ferriss 29:05 Mm-hmm

Wim Hof 29:06 ... then you are still very able to restore the balance within.

Tim Ferriss 29:10 Got it.

Wim Hof 29:11 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 29:12 And, um, the... If, if we're looking at the, the explanation that the scientists have at this point for your ability and your subjects' ability to protect themselves or shield themselves, um, it seemed like one hypothesis was you being able to increase, I think, noradrenaline or norepinephrine levels in the body.

Wim Hof 29:34 Yes. Yes.

Tim Ferriss 29:35 Uh, do you agree with that or do you think there are other... Uh, do you have other, uh-

Wim Hof 29:40 Yes

Tim Ferriss 29:40 ... theories?

Wim Hof 29:41 I do. I do.

Tim Ferriss 29:43 I'd love to hear it.

Wim Hof 29:43 It's not... It's, it's like if you have HIV and then the immune system is still looking for answers up till a moment that it is not able to specify anymore what's going on, and then we get AIDS.

Tim Ferriss 30:00 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 30:01 Uh, that, that means that all the defense systems are shut down. Now, we have shown by norepinephrine and noradrenaline, adrenaline, uh, that we can, uh, uh, suppress the inflammation. That means the inflammatory bodies and creating an immune response, and we suppress it. That would be like, uh, shutting down the immune system. That makes us, uh, uh, uh, following the scientific, uh, logic, uh, that makes us more vulnerable. No. What we do, and they still gotta find out, but I just use my natural logic, uh, and you can read upon in the, in the, in the, in the papers, um, that we have found a way to awaken the third line, which normally takes weeks or months to, uh, to, uh, find the specific hormone or molecule, which then is, uh, uh, uh, going, uh, for the target cell to go on the membrane and to, uh, kill the cell.

Tim Ferriss 31:13 So that's interesting. It's, it's, it's almost like internal drug development. You're trying to find the lock that... uh, I'm sorry, the key that fits the proper lock, but you're doing it internally.

Wim Hof 31:22 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 31:22 And it normally takes a very long time biologically-

Wim Hof 31:26 Yes

Tim Ferriss 31:26 ... to-

Wim Hof 31:26 Yes

Tim Ferriss 31:27 ... to, to, uh, sort of, uh, to conclude with, but you're accelerating that process.

Wim Hof 31:32 E- exactly. And then these hormones are not needed anymore.

Tim Ferriss 31:36 Hmm.

Wim Hof 31:36 Because the specific hormo- uh, the specific, uh, molecule gets on the cell membrane, and then all this, uh, uh, like fire, uh, people, uh, uh, uh, which is noradrenaline, gets throughout the system, and, uh, epinephrine, uh, as well, and they suppress the inflammation, the, the, the action. And, uh, but that is only possible when the, uh, the target is already a- annihilated.

Tim Ferriss 32:06 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 32:06 When the target has a specific molecule on it because of the third line of defense.

Tim Ferriss 32:13 Right.

Wim Hof 32:13 And that's, that, that's what we found. We found a way. And it's also Dr. Kevin Tracey from Manhasset, New York, who tells that. He is very much... He's an authority in the biochemistry. And, uh, uh, uh, uh, I worked with him in 2007, and I showed I was able, in his, uh, institute, uh, to suppress or to influence the vague nerve, which is also-

Tim Ferriss 32:41 Oh, right. The vagus nerve. Yeah.

Wim Hof 32:43 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 32:43 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 32:44 And now, uh, uh, he told, in Nature, he told, [clears throat] "Immunity does not come without neural regulation."

Tim Ferriss 32:56 Hmm.

Wim Hof 32:56 They found a way.

Tim Ferriss 32:58 S- so what do you... Now, for instance, I was, uh, I did my, uh, undergraduate for a very short period of time. Uh, in college, I studied neuroscience, and I remember when I was, uh, in college, there was a professor there who determined that, for instance, the neurons in the hippocampus could actually be regenerated, and this was very, very big-

Wim Hof 33:19 Mm-hmm

Tim Ferriss 33:20 ... big news because people had assumed for a very long time, in a number of parts of the brain, that neurons could not be degenerated, ba- or, or regenerated. Basically, as you got older, you just lost neuro- neuronal function, and it could not be restored. Now, we know that's not true, right? And so you're having this, a similar experience, where you're proving to people that things are possible that were thought impossible. What, what do you think... What other impossibles do you think we will prove are possible in the next, say, five years in your kind of area of experimentation?

Wim Hof 33:52 Very, very nice thought and a very good question. Uh, I think a depression, for example, and the brains itself. Uh, we are able to tap into the brains and do so much more, influence so much more, uh, a- a- which is related to the, uh, hypothalamus.

Tim Ferriss 34:14 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 34:15 Uh, the pineal gland, the pituitary gland, the hippocampus, and the amygdala, the seat of emotion. All these are part and around the, uh, brainstem, which is the reptilian brain, the primitive brain. And because of our comfort way of living and behavior, uh, this part doesn't get enough, uh, stimulation.

Tim Ferriss 34:40 Right.

Wim Hof 34:41 That-

Tim Ferriss 34:41 We're, we're untrained. [laughs]

Wim Hof 34:42 Yes. They... It doesn't get the stimulation nor oxygen.

Tim Ferriss 34:47 Hmm.

Wim Hof 34:47 So there is a certain kind of deregulating pH level, uh, going on. It's just to a lack of, uh, oxygen. It, it, there is no action, no stimulation. So in time, it begins to malfunction, and that's, uh, uh, uh, um, yeah, that, that's actually, uh, yeah, sort of a logic. So, uh, we suffer from a whole lot, for example, of depression in the Western world becau- uh, because we go too much into, uh, the, the neocortex, the, the superficial brain, the new brain, and we have to do all kinds of things, and dead- deadlines, and worries, and we cannot stop it, and it consumes all the energy. What I do and learn is to go into the brainstem again. The si- uh, the, the, the simplicity of our reptilian brain, the primitive brain, the brainstem, which is related to all these beautiful, uh, glands over there, which is the pineal gland, the pituitary gland, and the, and the controller of us, which is the, uh, hypothalamus.

Tim Ferriss 35:56 Right.

Wim Hof 35:57 And the seat of emotion itself, which is the amygdala. Uh, uh, uh, it's all there. And so I found a way to get into that and show, just by this example of our- ours, to lying in bed, people are able to produce more adrenaline than somebody who is in fear going into a bungee jump for the first time.

Tim Ferriss 36:28 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 36:28 You see what I mean?

Tim Ferriss 36:29 Right.

Wim Hof 36:30 Uh, that, that means fear, emotion, uncontrollable emotions and fear, we are able to control that, and that's because we tap controlled into the brainstem and produce any adrenaline or epinephrine or, uh, uh, uh, uh, all these, all these, uh, uh, gland... Uh, no, not glands. Hormones-

Tim Ferriss 36:55 Mm-hmm

Wim Hof 36:55 ... we need. And i- i- it's the pineal gland in the, in the... finally, uh, which is the controller of all the other glands in our body. So we are able now to tap into that. So the coming five years, I want to eradicate, uh, depression. I want to re- eradicate, uh, the, the- Uh, yeah, actually, a d- a disease. I know that are, are big words, but we are into that. I'm not only into that, is, uh, also professors, biochemists-

Tim Ferriss 37:26 Mm-hmm

Wim Hof 37:27 ... who stand my point, and they see it's so simple, so accessible, and so effective, but it needs to be translated into our infrastructure of, uh, thinking as well as of interests.

Tim Ferriss 37:43 Right.

Wim Hof 37:43 It needs to cooperate with schooling. Now we got on the university. That's nice. It's coming top-down because, oh, if the US universities are taking it on, then soon all the universities in the world will follow.

Tim Ferriss 37:59 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 37:59 So we fi- Uh, uh, the, okay, I rest my point for, for now.

Tim Ferriss 38:03 [laughs] And with-

Wim Hof 38:05 Uh-

Tim Ferriss 38:06 No, no. [laughs] Yeah. So with, for instance, depression, so there, I'm sure there are a lot of people listening who have, uh, bouts with depression or even extended depression. Um, uh-

Wim Hof 38:16 There's no control over their mood.

Tim Ferriss 38:18 Right.

Wim Hof 38:18 That's no control over the brainstem.

Tim Ferriss 38:21 Right. So let's-

Wim Hof 38:21 We bring it back to the brainstem.

Tim Ferriss 38:23 Right. So for instance, you know, I find that it's, uh, very helpful, for me at least, to use cold exposure. Uh, and whether that's cold showers or ice bath, uh, it has a tremendous mood-elevating effect or maybe mood-

Wim Hof 38:38 Exactly

Tim Ferriss 38:39 ... uh, r- balancing effect-

Wim Hof 38:41 Exactly

Tim Ferriss 38:41 ... depending on, on how, how we want to explain it. But for someone who is feeling depressed, what are some simple things that you would recommend that they try potentially?

Wim Hof 38:51 First, uh, get into conscious breathing, deeper breathing, and, uh, be consciously doing that. Uh, it showed in the university that I was able just, you know, c- about consciousness, just by thinking that I was going into an experiment, I raised cell, on cell level, the, the me- metabolic activity in the cell with 300%, just by thinking. That's our mind. So our mind should be... With people who are depressed, they just got lost. They have no control. So they have to regain control by consciously going into breathing. Breathing brings about, deeper breathing, uh, br- uh, brings about a better pH level in the body, but not only in the body, also in the mind.

Tim Ferriss 39:50 Mm.

Wim Hof 39:50 And the pa- the right pH level, uh, uh, uh, will make the neurotransmitters, that's your mind, uh, electrical signals finally, uh, uh, work better. And then you are able to, uh, learn to direct these neurotransmitters or thoughts, the mind itself, uh, consciously with the right pH degree. So, uh, we make it simple, and we say conscious breathing all the time, 'cause you lost track, and it takes energy, it takes your mind, and it... You gotta bring back your mind under your control.

Tim Ferriss 40:32 And, uh, s- so I mean, this, I think, is related to a broader topic of compulsive behavior, right? Or people who-

Wim Hof 40:39 Yes

Tim Ferriss 40:40 ... have au- automatic behaviors that are not, uh, serving them, and one of those is oftentimes eating or overeating. And before we started recording, [laughs] you know, I asked you what you had for breakfast, and you said nothing because you, uh, eat once per day. So I, I... Could you describe what your daily eating ritual is?

Wim Hof 40:59 I eat after 6:00 in the afternoon.

Tim Ferriss 41:03 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 41:03 And that's already for 35 years, and there is... I got a lot of energy. And you know why? Because the-

Tim Ferriss 41:10 You have a lot of allergies.

Wim Hof 41:12 Uh, no, energy.

Tim Ferriss 41:13 Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry. Got it.

Wim Hof 41:15 Maybe allergies as well. Women, you know. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 41:20 [laughs]

Wim Hof 41:20 Uh, uh, okay. Uh, just to make fun, you know? [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 41:24 [laughs]

Wim Hof 41:24 Um, uh-

Tim Ferriss 41:25 I think, I think you and I have to have wine next time we do this. [laughs]

Wim Hof 41:30 [laughs] Think it's very healthy. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 41:33 [laughs]

Wim Hof 41:33 Very good. Uh, uh, the thing is, uh, uh, by better breathing, conscious breathing, you make this chemical process in the, in the cell happen, which is called aerobic dissimilation.

Tim Ferriss 41:46 Mm.

Wim Hof 41:47 And as, you know, in the cell production, uh, uh, to make energy, mitochondrial energy, you need food. But if you are able to influence by better breathing-

Tim Ferriss 42:00 Mm

Wim Hof 42:00 ... a deeper breathing, then you produce simple, uh, metabolic activity in the mitochondria by better breathing, and that creates energy, which was the purpose of food. So, uh, food is nice. Hello?

Tim Ferriss 42:17 I'm here.

Wim Hof 42:18 Oh. Oh, yeah.

Tim Ferriss 42:19 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 42:19 Food is nice. Food is great. You should do it with a lot of love, and, uh, having a, a nice time making it, and, uh... Because that's the energy you get finally, uh, also. But, uh, uh, uh, like, uh, me, uh, for, uh, like, uh, it's a sort of a fast, but I have to feel... You, you know, the senses really gets... Are going to be m- m- much more effective, and the cell activity is going to be m- much more effective, and it is using all the food. And you can eat after 6:00, I can eat what I want. The other day, I'm slim again.

Tim Ferriss 42:59 Mm.

Wim Hof 42:59 And tha- that's making, you know, making the body work.

Tim Ferriss 43:03 Right.

Wim Hof 43:03 But as we eat all the day long, the body is not shutting down. It's not effective anymore, doesn't go deep, doesn't go into survival modus. It's not natural again. So it's beginning to store up all the fats because it doesn't know what to do anymore-

Tim Ferriss 43:21 Mm

Wim Hof 43:22 ... because the deeper mechanisms are not working anymore. So yeah.

Tim Ferriss 43:26 And what do you-

Wim Hof 43:27 How to bring that

Tim Ferriss 43:27 ... and what do you usually, what i- what are some typical meals that you have after 6:00 PM?

Wim Hof 43:34 That, uh, oh, I like pasta. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 43:39 [laughs]

Wim Hof 43:39 Uh, yeah. Uh, and I like a couple of beers too.

Tim Ferriss 43:42 [laughs]

Wim Hof 43:43 And, uh, yeah, sure. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 43:45 Sounds, sounds good. I, uh, the eating ritual's very interesting. I've, I've interviewed a number of people on this podcast, including General Stanley McChrystal. He's a four-star general, and he was, he's also famous for, um, getting a lot of exercise early in the day and eating one meal per day. He's also, he's also very well known for that. Uh, you, you described the breathing exercise, uh, or some of the breathing exercises that you do. Uh, d- does the type of breathing that you do have anything, uh,

Tim Ferriss 44:16 s- is it similar in any ways to holotropic breathwork, if you're familiar with that? And d- I, I heard from someone, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, that, um, some scientists had looked at, at whether you were producing or releasing more DMT during some of your, uh, breathing activities. Is that accurate, or did, did I get some misinformation from someone? I'll just be very-

Wim Hof 44:42 Oh, no, that's a professor, right? Yeah, I don't know. Uh, uh, Colorado? I don't know where, uh, uh, what is his name again? I don't know. He's a authority in the field.

Tim Ferriss 44:51 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 44:51 But I had a dialogue with him, and he, uh, is talking about, uh, uh, uh, all these, you know, uh, ayahuasca and all-

Tim Ferriss 45:01 Right

Wim Hof 45:01 ... these drugs and all this, and experimenting. And I sa- uh, I told him, "I'm able to produce, uh, to, uh, trigger the pineal gland in a way that DMT is released." And, um, and yes, uh, can make people very, very happy, uh, uh, doing, uh, all, all these breathing exercises. That, that's true, but the purpose of DMT actually is to, uh, work out the subconscious while dreaming in the rapid eye movement sleep, and the other one is, uh, when you die, then DMT is released as well, uh, as to make it more, uh, you know, uh, happy, uh, going after. Uh, having a, have a, have a nice time go to the other side, something like that. So there is a natural purpose for DMT, but we are, uh, we are very, uh, I'm very able to trigger that, uh, that creates, uh, DMT. And I told him, and I, I, I told him also, it's not only about the DMT, which is very nice. It's a nice drug and, uh, all that, but, uh, the better part of it is if we are able to, to, uh, trigger the pineal gland, which is related directly to the hypothalamus and the, uh, pituitary gland, if we are able to trigger that one and to decalcify because of our comfort way of living, uh, the, this pineal gland, then this gland is able to s- to direct all the other glands. It's the only gland that is directing all the other glands, and we can bring, we can neurally connect with it with our, our neocortex is what we do, and, uh, it shows then that we are able to prevent from disease or bacteria coming in because it, we are, are able to activate it much more directly. Um, um, the, uh, that's the main purpose to, you know, for, uh, looking different at what, uh, creates disease. It's because of our pineal gland or the brainstem is not really active anymore because it's neglected because of our comfort, uh-

Tim Ferriss 47:20 Right

Wim Hof 47:20 ... style of li- uh, living and behavior. And we want to make a shortcut and to show it that it is simple, accessible, and effective.

Tim Ferriss 47:30 Well, I think that the, you know, the, the comfort is important to underscore because, uh, I was having a conversation with, uh, Dean Karnazes several years ago. He's a famous ultramarathoner. You guys would probably have a lot to talk about. [laughs] And, uh-

Wim Hof 47:43 Mm

Tim Ferriss 47:43 ... he, uh, he ran, you know, 50 marathons in 50 days in 50 states. He's one of those guys. And, um-

Wim Hof 47:49 Right

Tim Ferriss 47:49 ... he said that, uh, he lives in Northern California near San Francisco, where I live, and he s- and one of his lines, and I might, I m- I might be paraphrasing this, but he said, "You know, people, uh, now they confuse being happy with being comfortable, and they think being comfortable is, is being happy," but that's, those are not the same thing.

Wim Hof 48:08 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 48:09 And, uh, z- I'd like to talk about discomfort for a second. So you ran a marathon in, was it Death Valley with no water?

Wim Hof 48:18 Yes. Uh, something like that. Yeah, Namibia, not in the-

Tim Ferriss 48:21 Namibia, that's right. Even so you-

Wim Hof 48:22 Namib, uh, desert.

Tim Ferriss 48:23 Even more dangerous because you have snakes and whatnot. [laughs] So is it possible to not... So of course, when you are submerged in ice, it's been demonstrated that you can maintain your core body temperature for a very long period of time. Uh, uh, is it possible for you to drop your body temperature in a hot climate, or have you just, is it training yourself to withstand the higher temperatures?

Wim Hof 48:48 Yes, exactly. Uh, both actually. Your, your tolerance is rising, and that means, uh, you are able to endure a whole lot more because you are able to influence the hormonal system in a way that neutralizes pain signals. That's one. The other one is, uh, because of my training in the cold, I not only trained in the cold, I trained to, uh, endure impact of temperature.

Tim Ferriss 49:19 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 49:20 And those are receptors of ours which I have trained. And then, uh, because of that, which is part, uh, which is controlled by the hypothalamus, it is the thermal regulator of our body.

Tim Ferriss 49:32 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 49:33 And, um, because I trained in the cold, I trained the thermal regulation of the body. Then without training, without training a meter of running, then not drinking a full marathon in the Namib Desert, in the heat, without prior training or ever been there before, uh, I was very able to do that because this thermoregulative, uh, mechanism, the hypothalamus, I had trained in, uh, in, in the cold, which is the temperature impact. So I learned to deal with the temperature. And you know what? And not only the temperature, which is cold and heat, but also deprivation of oxygen. That means going up in, uh, Mount Everest in shorts. Uh, that means, uh, uh, it is, uh, uh, very cold out, out there. There is no oxygen. Uh, the, uh, and you need oxygen to, uh, for combustion, uh, in the, in the cell to create heat, uh, energy, and there is no, uh, oxygen. So I learned in the cold how to deal with impact on the nervous system on our metabolism. That means cold, deprivation of oxygen, uh, heat, but also stress, daily stress.

Tim Ferriss 50:59 Hmm.

Wim Hof 50:59 So, uh, the secret of our comfort, as you say, and the people, uh, uh, they are confusing, uh, like they're paraphrasing this, this, this great guy-

Tim Ferriss 51:10 Mm-hmm

Wim Hof 51:10 ... uh, of, uh, uh, uh, Northern California, who is telling the truth. We are confused. We don't know anymore what real comfort is. Real comfort is the power to regulate, uh, all the impacts existent in, in life. And that means disease, which is impact, uh, on our body, uh, heat, cold, deprivation of oxygen, stress in general, any stress. And we are able to control that a whole lot more, and that brings about the real comfort. Because if you connect yourself with all these s- all the systems within, then you feel really good.

Tim Ferriss 51:55 Right.

Wim Hof 51:55 Real good is real connection, and that, uh, that, that's something be, uh, going be... That's why all these outdoor freaks and idiots and et cetera, like myself-

Tim Ferriss 52:06 [laughs]

Wim Hof 52:07 ... uh, are doing this, because we just feel good-

Tim Ferriss 52:10 [laughs]

Wim Hof 52:11 ... about it.

Tim Ferriss 52:12 Well, it seems like it's also, uh, you know, feeling comfort is, in a way, becoming competent in discomfort, right? So you, you have a confidence that you can handle and adapt to whatever's going to come your way, uh, much like some of the, I suppose, you know, elite military that I've met who are, who are very, actually very relaxed, I mean, the most, most of the high-level guys I've met, because they've systematically exposed themselves to discomfort, so they don't fear discomfort, if that makes sense.

Wim Hof 52:43 Exactly.

Tim Ferriss 52:44 Uh-

Wim Hof 52:45 They control their stress hormone release completely.

Tim Ferriss 52:48 Right.

Wim Hof 52:48 That's what I'm talking about.

Tim Ferriss 52:50 Now, you, you speak, uh... How, how many languages do you speak?

Wim Hof 52:55 10.

Tim Ferriss 52:56 10. That is a lot of languages. How, how did you learn that many languages?

Wim Hof 53:01 Just be open and love to learn, and that's it.

Tim Ferriss 53:06 [laughs]

Wim Hof 53:06 Uh, I, I, I, I had no real teachers. Then, you know, people in the street, and sometimes I had to look for a teacher, like a Japanese teacher or a, a, a, uh, here in, uh, Amsterdam, and a Hindu teacher, a pundit.

Tim Ferriss 53:20 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 53:20 And, uh, so, uh, uh, yeah, a lo- uh, uh, I was just interested. If you are interested in life, you get to know. And, you know, never stop learning because you love it. Um-

Tim Ferriss 53:31 Is there... Is... W- what language, of all the languages you've tried, what was the hardest for you?

Wim Hof 53:36 The hardest. Maybe Polish.

Tim Ferriss 53:38 Polish.

Wim Hof 53:39 Polish. Because it's a complete different set of, uh, grammatical structures.

Tim Ferriss 53:44 I see. Polish. Yeah, Na zdrowie. I guess I've [laughs]

Wim Hof 53:48 Yeah, Na zdrowie.

Tim Ferriss 53:49 I, I, I-

Wim Hof 53:50 [speaks in foreign language]

Tim Ferriss 53:50 I bet you know that one. [laughs]

Wim Hof 53:52 Yeah, yes, of course. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 53:54 [laughs]

Wim Hof 53:55 Uh, drinking beers, come on. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 53:56 Yeah, I know. We, we, we definitely have to have a round two with some, with some wine and beer. But the, um, the, the next question I'd love to ask is, uh, perhaps a simple one, but why are people fat? Uh, and how can people develop more brown fat and use it effectively?

Wim Hof 54:14 Yes. People are, uh, being fat because it's a protective mechanism of the, of our bodies. It's actually an, an, an answer to, to, um, too much impact, too much wrong chemistry going on. So it wants to make an insulation. That's a, that's a natural thing-

Tim Ferriss 54:33 Okay

Wim Hof 54:34 ... uh, to do of the body. Now, we are suffering from that now. It's called obesity and, uh, you know, being overweight, and we have no control. Just bring them back to the control. How do we do that? By, by, by this adipose, bro- brown fat, adipose. Because, uh, uh, they have a... mostly of those people have also an absence of brown fat-

Tim Ferriss 54:58 Mm-hmm

Wim Hof 54:58 ... because they, uh, have no stimulation anymore for longer time, and then this insulation, uh, reflex is beginning to build up and build up. But actually, this telling, "Hey, guy, uh, I'm trying to do my best for you, but you are not doing anything in return." And as long as you're not triggering or stimulating the adipose, the brown fat, then it, it, it succumbs. It, it goes away, and, and, and then it is not able to, uh, to, uh, uh, uh, to, to divert, uh, white fat into energy anymore.

Tim Ferriss 55:37 Right.

Wim Hof 55:37 So it's gone. With people with the obesity, they have no brown fat anymore.

Tim Ferriss 55:42 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 55:43 So, uh, there is a logic explanation to it, and I, I know it. So they have to Bring it back

Tim Ferriss 55:49 And is that cold exposure primarily? That would be the first step to try to-

Wim Hof 55:53 Cold. Cold exposure, uh, na- natural exposure to the elements, that's one. In an adaptive way, gradual way, I mean, then we are able to adapt with it. But as these mechanisms are not working really well within these people, so they have to be very, uh, you know, sensitive and, and, uh, uh, and, uh, gradual, uh, going into it. And breathing. Breathing is chemistry, is chemical, uh, uh, is influencing the chemistry right here, right now. Better breathing, deeper breathing brings about better pH degree in the body, which then finally results in a faster metabolism.

Tim Ferriss 56:38 And if people are practicing this or want to prac- practice this breathing on their own, is there any particular, uh, mantra or anything they should focus on or say to themselves as they're doing this? Is any type of meditation okay to start with, like using an app like Headspace or Calm? Or do you have a particular recommendation? If someone said, "I have 10 minutes a day I'm willing to spend doing this," um, what would you say to them?

Wim Hof 57:01 Yeah, just have your favorite music going on. Go really into it, and go really into the breathing.

Tim Ferriss 57:08 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 57:09 Because it's about chemical changes, and, uh, whenever you hear the right music, you are able to relax more, and more oxygen then is able to get into the body, which is finally changing the, the pH levels in the body, uh, to the, to its natural state.

Tim Ferriss 57:27 Mm.

Wim Hof 57:28 That's what we have. Uh, uh, because we live in such a, a c- you know, a compressed society, uh, uh, too much stress going on, we do not have c- control of the stress. We get out of our natural state. So within 10 minutes we are... Uh, I say within four minutes, just do this brea- uh, breathing exercise, uh, which I te- teach people, and do pushups. Pushups without air in the lungs. You should do that too.

Tim Ferriss 57:58 So, so you do that after the, after the exhale?

Wim Hof 58:01 Yes, after. Yeah. First you do, like, 30, like I explained, deeply within, let go. Deeply within. Uh, look at the indications, uh, fee- feeling, uh, loose in the body, uh, lightheaded. Uh, contractions, a little bit tingling, that's all okay. Like, 30 or 40 deep breaths, and then letting go 40 times. Then you will arrive, yeah, uh, at that, you being charged with, uh, oxygen and the CO2, carbon dioxide go- got away. pH level has gotten up. Then you should breathe in fully, letting go. After exhalation you stop, and you go do pushups. And you will see you are able to do more pushups without air in the lungs because you influenced into the chemistry.

Tim Ferriss 58:52 Hmm. That's... And, uh, probably a good idea to do on a soft surface first. [laughs]

Wim Hof 58:57 Yes. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 58:59 Just in case you decide to kiss the floor a little too hard. Uh, no, this is something that, uh, that Laird and his guys have been working on as well. I mean, a lot of these guys are working in, doing pushups or stationary bike. Um, very interesting. They have free divers that, uh-

Wim Hof 59:12 Yes

Tim Ferriss 59:12 ... they sometimes work out with. It's very fascinating. Um, great. Well I'm, I'm going to try that. I would love to switch gears just a little bit and ask you a couple of, uh, rapid questions.

Wim Hof 59:23 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 59:23 You can certainly take your time. It doesn't mean you have to answer them quickly. But, um, the, the first is when you think of the word successful, who is the first person who comes to mind for you?

Wim Hof 59:35 The heart in any person.

Tim Ferriss 59:37 The heart?

Wim Hof 59:38 The heart in any person.

Tim Ferriss 59:40 Hmm.

Wim Hof 59:41 That, that, that, that's success. The, uh, uh, uh, fu- further, maybe Mandela.

Tim Ferriss 59:48 Nelson Mandela.

Wim Hof 59:49 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 59:50 And, and with the heart, if someone feels like... If someone doesn't feel successful, uh, what would you, what would your advice be to them? Or what would you, what would you say to them?

Wim Hof 1:00:01 Yeah, just do the method.

Tim Ferriss 1:00:03 Yeah.

Wim Hof 1:00:03 I mean, this method is showing scientifically to be able to tap into the deepest of our physiology. If somebody feels he's frustrated, it's because he is not able to tap in, in his or hers physiology at the deepest.

Tim Ferriss 1:00:19 Hmm.

Wim Hof 1:00:19 He has no control. That makes people frustrated, and we, uh, we, we mirror that with society and all that, but you've got your vehicle. If you are able to steer your vehicle, your body, your mind toward whatever you feel-

Tim Ferriss 1:00:37 Mm-hmm

Wim Hof 1:00:37 ... then you will be successful.

Tim Ferriss 1:00:39 And-

Wim Hof 1:00:39 So any per- Yes?

Tim Ferriss 1:00:41 Oh, I'm sorry to interrupt.

Wim Hof 1:00:41 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:00:42 I was just gonna ask-

Wim Hof 1:00:42 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 1:00:43 ... uh, why Nelson Mandela?

Wim Hof 1:00:45 Uh, yeah, he's just a good guy. He was always smiling. He loved the women.

Tim Ferriss 1:00:49 [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:00:50 And, uh, he, he stayed, like, 25 years believing in his case.

Tim Ferriss 1:00:55 Right.

Wim Hof 1:00:56 And that makes him, for me, uh, really strong, and, uh, I, I love people who have faith.

Tim Ferriss 1:01:02 Hmm.

Wim Hof 1:01:02 Simply because that's what I feel. And yes, I, uh, I've been, uh, so- so many years neglected and, uh, mocked, uh, mocked and all, all that, but I always had my faith.

Tim Ferriss 1:01:17 Hmm.

Wim Hof 1:01:17 And now it is science. For the same, like, 20 years ago, they told me, "You're crazy. You're an idiot. You're a lunatic," and all that. Yes?

Tim Ferriss 1:01:27 Hmm.

Wim Hof 1:01:27 And even my, in my family, I was the black sheep, and right now I'm the whitest sheep ever. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:01:36 [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:01:36 So it's a lot of hypocrisy going on in the world because people do not know, but I got my faith. I got my belief, and I want to go up till the point that we scientifically- Showed everybody is able to tap in its endocrine system, uh, so much that depression and being unhappy and being frustrated is no longer part of humanity.

Tim Ferriss 1:02:04 Mm.

Wim Hof 1:02:05 It's a choice.

Tim Ferriss 1:02:07 Now, this is a, this is a topic I, I think we could talk about for a long time. What is your favorite book or the book that you've given to other people the most as a gift?

Wim Hof 1:02:17 Whoa. Never gave so many books. [laughs] But except for the books I'm writing right now.

Tim Ferriss 1:02:23 [laughs] What do you give to people as gifts? What do you like-

Wim Hof 1:02:25 What?

Tim Ferriss 1:02:25 ... to give people as gifts?

Wim Hof 1:02:26 Oh, uh, stones. Stones-

Tim Ferriss 1:02:29 Stones

Wim Hof 1:02:29 ... a lot of stu- and natural things.

Tim Ferriss 1:02:31 Mm.

Wim Hof 1:02:31 I give people natural things. Oh, oh, I, I collect a wh- a whole bunch of things and then two months later I'm, I'm fed up with the thing, and then-

Tim Ferriss 1:02:40 [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:02:40 ... I think, "This one wants to go with you." [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:02:44 [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:02:44 And those are beautiful stones. When I saw them the first time, I thought, "Wow, great stone. Beautiful." Or this, uh, artifact, "Oh, what... Great. Wow, nice." Then two months later I say, "It's gone." You know?

Tim Ferriss 1:02:57 [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:02:58 Then I just give it away. And so, uh, with books, the same thing. Uh, uh, as, uh, Siddhartha. Siddhartha-

Tim Ferriss 1:03:06 Yeah

Wim Hof 1:03:06 ... and Jonathan Livingston Seagull comes to my mind. Uh, um, uh, that's okay. And some scriptures. Uh, uh, I, I read about the Bhagavad Gita, and the Bible, of course. Uh, but, uh, all these books, uh, I was reading hundreds of books and, uh, at, at a certain point I could not make the connection with my, the deepest within myself, which was the seeker. I was soul-searching, and I found it finally in the open book of the ice water, because ice water is merciless but righteous. It brings you just within, and, uh, there is no, uh, uh, there, there is no chit-chatting, uh, a- around that. There is no philosophy. You just do it right or you do it wrong.

Tim Ferriss 1:03:58 [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:03:59 [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:04:00 Now, you, you've had, of course, some, some very challenging times, um, m- perhaps more so than many people I've, I've spoken with. You, uh, had very, you know, tragic premature death, uh, with your wife, in the-

Wim Hof 1:04:13 Yes

Tim Ferriss 1:04:13 ... in the case of your wife. Uh, what do you do to, to overcome those dark periods?

Wim Hof 1:04:22 Yes. Very, uh, uh, very good. Very interesting. Very real and deep. Go on. Uh, losing, uh, uh, the person you love. I have four children with her. They work with me n- right now. They are, like, 33 years old, the oldest one, and, uh, then two daughters and another son, and they all work with me right now. Oh, oh, actually, one is working right now at the Dutch Embassy in Washington, DC, in America. [clears throat] But the rest is working with me all the time. So, uh, losing the love of your life, how deep can you go? And being teared apart, that was what I was experience, uh, a- a- at the time. But then, uh, I was the only person who was, uh, uh, uh, re, uh, who... You know, I was alone, and I had to raise four kids alone, and that, uh, they were, like, seven years, uh, uh, old, eight years, nine years, and 11 years. And I had to raise them alone. So I received so much love, uh, of, of my kids, and I did my training. And as I told you, uh, the, the brainstem is, uh, also the area of the seat of emotion, which is the amygdala. And because of this training in the cold, I could control, silence myself and go on and always find the energy to go on and to be a father, happy, and exercising and practical, and, uh, uh, with my kids. And, uh, they gave me a lot of love, but the thing, uh, about grief and the emotion is you have to go deep, because emotion i, i, is going deep, and as we live in the comfort zone, we have no control mostly over emotion. And I tell you, there is a way to, uh, control the seat of, uh, emotion, which is the amygdala connected to the, uh, in the area of the brainstem. So I think this... Uh, uh, not think. Uh, my experience tells me discipline. Discipline and believing, believing within. There is a way to silence, uh, uh, grieved, broken hearts, uh, grief and, uh, and, uh, hurt e- emotions. Yes.

Tim Ferriss 1:06:56 It's, it's-

Wim Hof 1:06:57 So it's the way I did it.

Tim Ferriss 1:06:59 And the, um... It's, it's really been fascinating for me to observe a, a number of people, I won't mention the, some of their names, but who have used specifically, uh, exposure to the cold to, I, I suppose the purity of that cold and the attention that requires, the sort of purity of attention that it requires to overcome very dark periods, or be, uh, to act as a very strong component for passing through those difficult periods. It's, it's just a, it's a very-

Wim Hof 1:07:27 Yes

Tim Ferriss 1:07:28 ... fascinating pattern that I've observed in a number of my, a number of my friends. Uh-

Wim Hof 1:07:33 I recognize it

Tim Ferriss 1:07:33 ... what is, what is your morning, uh, the first 60 minutes of your day look like? When do you wake up? What do you do in those first 60 minutes, if you have complete control over that morning?

Wim Hof 1:07:44 First I begin to conscious breathing, where I consciously breathe.

Tim Ferriss 1:07:49 When you wake up?

Wim Hof 1:07:50 Yes

Tim Ferriss 1:07:51 And you're s-

Wim Hof 1:07:51 Life is all about vital force created by oxygen.

Tim Ferriss 1:07:55 [inhales]

Wim Hof 1:07:55 Just it's for free, and it's there. And I sa- it's, to me, it's, uh, uh, it, it's God itself. The li- like pneuma, the vital force-

Tim Ferriss 1:08:05 Right, pranayama, yeah

Wim Hof 1:08:06 ... the chi, the chi, the prana, it's all, uh, different names of God. Uh, they tell all the, uh, uh, the, the, uh, belief systems tell that that's the vital force of any, yeah, o- of, of life itself.

Tim Ferriss 1:08:23 Mm.

Wim Hof 1:08:23 So that's the... that's a very logic, natural way I begin. [inhales] Just breathe. It helps.

Tim Ferriss 1:08:30 Still lay- still laying in bed?

Wim Hof 1:08:32 Yes, still laying in bed. And then, um, to do, uh, doing the exercise, uh, which I explained prior, uh, in this interview, uh, is, yeah, it is, it is very nice because you are still very relaxed, and the body, body is, uh, without tension.

Tim Ferriss 1:08:52 Mm.

Wim Hof 1:08:52 So you then are able to go tap deeply into the, uh, system.

Tim Ferriss 1:08:58 And how long will you do that in bed typically?

Wim Hof 1:09:01 Yeah, so stay a half hour, something like that, before-

Tim Ferriss 1:09:06 Okay

Wim Hof 1:09:06 ... um, going into action. Could be an hour because it's never, never boring.

Tim Ferriss 1:09:11 [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:09:13 Yeah, it really is so.

Tim Ferriss 1:09:13 What, what would you say to someone who says, "You know, actually, I find it really boring." I'm not saying that I feel that way, but if some-

Wim Hof 1:09:18 Yeah, no, I got ya

Tim Ferriss 1:09:19 ... if someone felt boring, what would you, what would you advise them, or what would you tell them?

Wim Hof 1:09:23 It's, i- it's once again the f- same thing as this Californian, uh, great guy that told-

Tim Ferriss 1:09:28 Dean, Dean, yeah, Dean Karnazes.

Wim Hof 1:09:30 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:09:30 Yeah.

Wim Hof 1:09:30 Yeah, Dean Karnazes. Uh, uh, they don't know what comfort is all about.

Tim Ferriss 1:09:35 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 1:09:35 So, uh, going de- uh, just by breathing into the depth of our physiology is like gaining the aim of all those people going into outdoor or taking drugs or, uh, uh, uh, doing extremes or going for a rush. Now you can... are able to learn to control the depth of your physiology by just breathing properly and going into that system. And, uh, uh, boring is something, uh, if you are doing things repetitiously-

Tim Ferriss 1:10:12 Mm

Wim Hof 1:10:13 ... but not breaking through the conditioning.

Tim Ferriss 1:10:16 Right.

Wim Hof 1:10:16 And I, I learn people to go through the conditioning.

Tim Ferriss 1:10:19 Right. So if you have to be conscious about the activity, you can't be daydreaming while... It s- it seems you just have to be attentive to your breathing when you're doing something like this.

Wim Hof 1:10:29 Yes, yes. Yeah, just go into it. It's like Vipassana m- meditation.

Tim Ferriss 1:10:34 Mm.

Wim Hof 1:10:34 That's what they do, you know. They sit, and they just listen and, and, and focus on breathing. That's all, uh, what they do. And, and they get into a deeper layer of their brain because they are not giving their focus to something else than just mere breathing. It is so simple but so effective.

Tim Ferriss 1:10:58 I'll try that tomorrow morning. The-

Wim Hof 1:11:00 Uh-huh

Tim Ferriss 1:11:00 ... so let's say you do that for a half hour. Uh, then what do you do for the next half hour?

Wim Hof 1:11:06 Um, uh, nowadays, I do a lot, uh, uh, um, uh, um, doing a lot of workshops, uh, uh, lectures.

Tim Ferriss 1:11:14 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 1:11:14 And I'm, uh, into science, but yeah, uh, for i- in between, I do exercising. I like exercising.

Tim Ferriss 1:11:23 What type of exercise do you... If you had to choose one type of exercise or two types of exercise for yourself, what would you choose?

Wim Hof 1:11:30 Strength and flexibility.

Tim Ferriss 1:11:32 What would you do for both of those?

Wim Hof 1:11:34 Uh, strength, for example, stay on two arms, say, four minutes.

Tim Ferriss 1:11:39 Mm-hmm. Like a plank-

Wim Hof 1:11:40 And-

Tim Ferriss 1:11:40 ... or just different types of poses on two arms?

Wim Hof 1:11:43 Yeah, with one hand or two, a plank or, uh, handstands or, uh, pull-ups, push-ups, of course.

Tim Ferriss 1:11:52 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 1:11:52 Uh, those are, uh, you know, power exercises. Or stand in a horse stance for an hour. That is sometimes, uh, uh, just to, uh, with stones in my hands and make all kinds of kung fu, uh, like, uh, movements, just make them up and... But, you know, uh, uh, uh, to better my acidic, uh, the acidic processes in, in my body.

Tim Ferriss 1:12:18 Mm.

Wim Hof 1:12:18 So I go deeply into the horse stance and, uh, breathe in a way that the, uh, acid is not developing in the body.

Tim Ferriss 1:12:27 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 1:12:27 So that, uh, makes me control the body, and, uh, that feels good. And then for flexibility, yeah, all kinds of splits and then put a couple of, uh, legs in my, uh, behind my head, uh, things, you know. Uh, uh, do balancing, uh, exercises. It's nice. Uh, uh, uh, I, I, I maintain the body that way, right.

Tim Ferriss 1:12:49 What... Do you listen to music when you're exercising, or do you do it, uh, without music?

Wim Hof 1:12:54 I, uh, I simply have no, uh, record system, so, but, uh, in, uh, right now, I'm, uh... W- we bought a center.

Tim Ferriss 1:13:03 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 1:13:03 So I will have my big dojo and, uh, wa- a cascade and all that and a swimming pool and, uh-

Tim Ferriss 1:13:11 [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:13:11 ... and all those things. And then I will have the right music. I make music myself. I, uh, uh, I play the guitar. I sing.

Tim Ferriss 1:13:19 Mm.

Wim Hof 1:13:19 I want to make a CD very soon, and, uh, people like me singing, uh, doing all kinds of mantras because I, uh, you know, learned about the Sanskrit and, and, and, uh, Spanish songs, uh, uh, English songs and all kinds of songs. I, I, I just make up. I'm, uh, I'm a sort of a rapper, too.

Tim Ferriss 1:13:39 [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:13:39 So, yeah. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:13:41 I'd love to hear it. And what, uh, what musician do you look up to the most? Is there a particular musician that you, uh, admi- that you would like to emulate or look up to?

Wim Hof 1:13:53 I like a lot, a lot, a lot of lounge Uh, uh, easy music. I like Michael Jackson

Tim Ferriss 1:13:58 Michael Jackson's great.

Wim Hof 1:14:00 Yeah, yeah, he is. He's-

Tim Ferriss 1:14:01 Do you have a fa- do you have a favorite song or a favorite album?

Wim Hof 1:14:04 Uh, of, uh, of, uh, Michael Jackson?

Tim Ferriss 1:14:06 Yes.

Wim Hof 1:14:06 Uh, uh, Ma- uh, yeah, of all the songs. Uh, uh, This Is It-

Tim Ferriss 1:14:10 [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:14:11 ... for example.

Tim Ferriss 1:14:12 It's a great song.

Wim Hof 1:14:12 Thriller.

Tim Ferriss 1:14:13 Oh, yeah. Great tune.

Wim Hof 1:14:13 Thriller is great.

Tim Ferriss 1:14:14 [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:14:15 And he, his voice is mesmerizing.

Tim Ferriss 1:14:18 Oh, yeah. Totally.

Wim Hof 1:14:19 And yes. So I, I, I, I, I, um, gave my son, uh, the, uh, uh, his name, which is Michael, which is one of my songs. So, uh, things like that. But also Pink Floyd.

Tim Ferriss 1:14:32 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 1:14:33 Also Gipsy Kings, you know, with the-

Tim Ferriss 1:14:34 Oh, fantastic. Yeah

Wim Hof 1:14:35 ... flamenco.

Tim Ferriss 1:14:36 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 1:14:36 Flamenco. And all the good music. There's a lot of good music, uh, going on and, uh, yes.

Tim Ferriss 1:14:43 Well, I can't wait to visit the, uh, the center. Is that going to be in Holland?

Wim Hof 1:14:47 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 1:14:48 Okay.

Wim Hof 1:14:48 It's, uh, for now it's in Holland. I was looking, uh, to make a center in, uh, near San Francisco as well. I got some very good friends over there. Uh-

Tim Ferriss 1:14:57 You should. You should, you should come out. Maybe we'll do a workshop and I can introduce you to, uh... I'll invite Dean as well. You could meet Dean. [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:15:04 Yes, yes.

Tim Ferriss 1:15:05 He, he's a great guy. He's a great guy.

Wim Hof 1:15:06 Yeah, yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:15:07 He would love to... He, he would love to meet you, I'm sure. The, um, just a few more questions. I want to be obviously respectful of your time. What, uh, what purchase in the last, you know, six months or a year of less than $100, so something you bought for less than $100, has most positively impacted your life?

Wim Hof 1:15:25 Uh, stones.

Tim Ferriss 1:15:27 Stones.

Wim Hof 1:15:27 Always stones. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:15:27 I love these stones. I want to talk about stones. So, uh, so h- how do you find these stones, and what makes you pick one? Uh, do you have any favorites?

Wim Hof 1:15:35 I always take, uh, uh, stones out. Uh, what- whatever touches my, meets the eye.

Tim Ferriss 1:15:40 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 1:15:40 Uh, I, I take them from the mountains I climb.

Tim Ferriss 1:15:44 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 1:15:44 But I, I also li- like these, you know, uh, amethysts and, uh, opals and, uh, all kinds of, you know, beautiful stones with beautiful colors.

Tim Ferriss 1:15:54 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 1:15:54 I like that. But, uh, yeah, I always take stones from the, uh, uh... I just found a big fossil, uh, in the, in the Spanish Pyrenees.

Tim Ferriss 1:16:05 Mm-hmm.

Wim Hof 1:16:05 You know, big, big, big means like two, three kilos of-

Tim Ferriss 1:16:11 [laughs] That's a, that's a big, big fossil, yeah.

Wim Hof 1:16:13 Yeah. A, a, a fossil. And, uh, a- and I, I couldn't, uh, get it down because I was there with a group. The, I had to, I had no, uh, backpack. I had to, uh, carry the, the ropes because we were doing canyoning-

Tim Ferriss 1:16:29 Right

Wim Hof 1:16:29 ... and all that. So but, uh, there was a girl from, uh, Austin, Texas, Austin, Elizabeth Lee, and she had a backpack, and she, uh, she carried it there for me.

Tim Ferriss 1:16:39 That's a, that's a good friend.

Wim Hof 1:16:41 Yeah. Oh, she, I love her so much. Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:16:43 [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:16:44 Yeah, yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:16:45 So the, what, what effect do... And did you, do you put that in your kitchen? Where do you put such a f- uh, such a stone, and what effect does it have on you?

Wim Hof 1:16:54 Uh, uh, everywhere. They, they have a solid effect. They are simply there, and they are beautiful, and I always pass them on to other people, except for the big ones. [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:17:07 [laughs] So what, uh, what advice would you give your 30-year-old self?

Wim Hof 1:17:14 My 30... Uh, just have faith.

Tim Ferriss 1:17:18 Just have faith.

Wim Hof 1:17:19 Faith. Faith, yes. And-

Tim Ferriss 1:17:21 That, that, that... What, what type of faith? That things will work out? That things will be okay?

Wim Hof 1:17:26 Say, uh, uh, simple logic. Have simple logic and understand the things simply, and listen to your feeling.

Tim Ferriss 1:17:33 Hmm.

Wim Hof 1:17:34 Listen to your feeling. Your feeling, uh, uh, it knows. It's, it, it, it is simply sense-making, and that, uh, if you are, uh, uh, uh, letting it in your way of thinking, then never lose track of whatever makes sense, which is feeling, which is instinct and intuition.

Tim Ferriss 1:17:56 Right. Right. This is something I've been trying to work on a lot because it, it's easy for me at least to get trapped in my neocortex, to get trapped-

Wim Hof 1:18:05 Exactly

Tim Ferriss 1:18:05 ... in the front of my brain, where I can make pro and con lists. But, uh, the answer is so obvious sometimes because you know that something's wrong or you know that someone isn't a good fit or you don't trust someone, just like, yeah, you have that feeling like a dog where you immediately-

Wim Hof 1:18:20 Exactly

Tim Ferriss 1:18:20 ... either like or dislike something.

Wim Hof 1:18:22 Yes.

Tim Ferriss 1:18:22 So it's, I've been trying to train myself to go back to that simplicity. It's, um-

Wim Hof 1:18:27 Making sense

Tim Ferriss 1:18:28 ... it can be challenging. Yeah. The, uh, so, so one or two more questions. The, if, if you could have one billboard, one huge sign anywhere with anything on it, uh, what would it say and where would you put it?

Wim Hof 1:18:42 I would say, uh, "Breathe, motherfucker." [laughs]

Tim Ferriss 1:18:49 [laughs] Well, so you could put that on, like, a busy highway. You could put that on, like, Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles or like just you-

Wim Hof 1:18:54 Yeah, maybe, uh, breathe, m- ee, ee, ee.

Tim Ferriss 1:18:58 Right. [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:18:58 Something like that, you know? [laughs] I don't know why the way they understand it, but it's really meant lovable.

Tim Ferriss 1:19:04 Right, right. [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:19:05 It meant, you know, with strength. It is the answer to the, up till the DNA itself. And it's not me telling that anymore. Because of the blood results, professors have confirmed that we are in the middle of DNA. And what is the trigger? Breathing.

Tim Ferriss 1:19:25 So this is, uh, [laughs] so you could, you could have it say, "Breathe, breathe, motherfucker," with then a smiley-

Wim Hof 1:19:30 Yes

Tim Ferriss 1:19:30 ... a smiley face. Like a smiley emoticon.

Wim Hof 1:19:32 Yeah.

Tim Ferriss 1:19:32 That'd be perfect. [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:19:34 That's, yes.

Tim Ferriss 1:19:35 So-

Wim Hof 1:19:35 Uh, we got a T-shirt. It says on the front, "Freeze."

Tim Ferriss 1:19:40 [laughs]

Wim Hof 1:19:41 You know, it's about the cold and, uh. And then the other side is, "Breathe, motherfucker."

Tim Ferriss 1:19:47 [laughs] Oh, well, you and I need to hang out more. I, uh, this is-

Wim Hof 1:19:51 Yeah

Tim Ferriss 1:19:51 ... th- this has been great. Uh, of course, everybody listening, I'm going to put, uh, tons of links in the show notes. You should check out Iceman Wim Hof, W-I-M H-O-F. Uh, definitely check out Wim Hof Method, and I'll link to that in the show notes, uh, which is a 10-week online video course which a, a bunch of people whose names you would know are, are using right now. It's very, very interesting. And there are a bunch of documentaries and links to the textbooks I will include as well. Um, Wim, do you have any last, uh, requests or asks of my audience? There g- there are a lot of people who will be hearing this. If you could ask them all to do something, um, besides check out the courses and so on, what, what would you ask them to do? Something they could do when they hear this or after they hear it.

Wim Hof 1:20:40 Yeah, just pass on, a, a, a, breathe, that's one, and take a cold shower after a, a, a, a hot one. And, uh, just get into the science of this all. It is non-speculative, and for the rest, I just love you guys.

Tim Ferriss 1:20:56 [laughs] Well, Wim, this is wonderful. Everybody listening, I will link to all of these things. You can find Wim on Twitter, @iceman_hof, H-O-F, and I'll link to that. Instagram, same, iceman_hof. Facebook is, uh, facebook.com/becomingtheiceman. And, uh, Wim, thank you so much for taking the time. This was a blast.

Wim Hof 1:21:20 Thank you very much. I, I hear a soulmate. I thank you very much. I love you very much. Greetings to, uh, Ray Cronise.

Tim Ferriss 1:21:29 Definitely.

Wim Hof 1:21:30 If you talk to him, be, I will, uh, mail him, uh, also. He loves you, and, uh, he loves your work. He loves my work. You know, we like to work to make love happen.

Tim Ferriss 1:21:41 Definitely. Well, uh, we will, uh, we'll play some guitar and have some wine, and you can, um-

Wim Hof 1:21:46 Oh, yes. Nice

Tim Ferriss 1:21:47 ... I, I would love to, I would love to get into some shorts and, uh, and freeze my ass off and breathe at some point-

Wim Hof 1:21:52 Right on

Tim Ferriss 1:21:52 ... up in-

Wim Hof 1:21:53 Right on.

Tim Ferriss 1:21:54 [laughs] Up in the mountains. That would be, uh, that'd be great. So, uh, until next time, thank you everybody for listening. And Wim, thanks so much.

Wim Hof 1:22:02 Great. Thank you very much, too. [upbeat music]

Tim Ferriss 1:22:06 Hey, guys. This is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is 5-Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And 5-Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up [laughs] in the, uh, the world of the esoteric, as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little, tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com, that's fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out, and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it. This episode is brought to you by a new sponsor, so listen up, folks. This is a good one. Because have you ever wanted to be as powerful as a mullet-wearing ninja from a 1980s movie, or as flamboyant as Big Gay Al, Big Gay Al in South Park, or as sleek as a black panther in the Amazon on the hunt? Well, there's great news, because I've been testing this product that you wrap around your genitals and it makes you feel like a superhero, and it is called MeUndies. I've spent the last two to three weeks traveling with underwear from these guys, and they are comfy. I gotta tell you, it feels like a geisha is giving your groin a hug. And it's not just for dudes, but if you go to meundies.com/tim, that's M-E-U-N-D-I-E-S.com/tim, you can see all of the underwear that I've been wearing. There's some pretty ridiculous ones, and, uh, I will also highlight my favorite. You'll probably be able to guess which it is. These underwear are made from micromodal, which is extruded from Austrian beechwood trees in the Alps. Yes, fancy. And it's two times softer than cotton. Scientifically tested using the Kawabata method developed in Kyoto. You know those Japanese, very crafty. And, uh, I will say a few things. Number one, if you go to meundies.com/tim, you get to see all of the spectacular underwear that I've been wearing, and I am a bit of an underwear connoisseur. Socks, fashion sense with sweatpants, not so much. Underwear, I understand. So check them out. And if you go to meundies.com/tim, you will also be able to see lots of hot ladies wearing MeUndies female underwear, and that's just a lot of goodness for both the men and the women out there. So check it out, meundies.com/tim. I love these underwear, and, uh, I am going to be packing tonight probably six to 12 pair to take with me to Australia. They're great. Check them out, meundies.com/tim. This episode is brought to you by Audible, which I've used for years. I love audiobooks, and I have two to recommend right off the bat. Number one is perhaps my favorite audiobook of all time, and that is The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman, the only audiobook I've wanted to immediately listen to a second time as soon as I finished. It's amazing. You will thank me. The Graveyard Book. The second is Vagabonding by Rolf Potts, which had a huge impact on my life and formed the basis for a lot of what became The 4-Hour Workweek. So all you need to do to get your free audiobook and a free 30-day trial is go to audible.com/tim, and you can choose one of those two books, The Graveyard Book, Vagabonding, or more than 180,000 audio programs. So that could be a book, that could be a magazine, that could be a newspaper, could be a class. It's that easy. Go to audible.com/tim. That's audible.com/tim, and grab a book. Enjoy. [upbeat music] If you want more of The Tim Ferriss Show, you can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes or go to fourhourblog.com, F-O-U-R-H-O-U-R-B-L-O-G.com, where you'll find an award-winning blog, tons of audio and video interview stories with people like Warren Buffett and Mike Shinoda from Linkin Park, the books, plus much, much more. Follow Tim on Twitter at twitter.com/tferriss. That's T-F-E-R-R-I-S-S, or on Facebook at facebook.com/timferriss. Until next time, thanks for listening. [upbeat music]