Brian Singerman on Founders Fund, GPx, and Looking for Greatness | Ep. 56

1. 0:00 – 0:50

   Intro

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      I'm not trying to spot, s- people who can spot greatness. I'm trying to spot people who, like, can play the game of venture capital, who know their strengths so well. I, I'm looking for people who could've beaten me in my prime.

   2. JAJack Altman0:09

      Yeah. Yeah, because they can play a game that they can win.

   3. SPSpeaker0:12

      Yes.

   4. JAJack Altman0:12

      Yes. [upbeat music] All right. I'm really excited to be doing this, Brian. Thanks for, thanks for coming on the podcast with me.

   5. SPSpeaker0:20

      Of course.

   6. JAJack Altman0:20

      I want to start with a topic that I think is pretty central to the way your brain works, to the way you've done your work, which is the idea of assessing talent and identifying sort of outlier attributes that people have. And you know, I think this often gets... I hate to even say this word, but, like, people talk about, like, spiky founders, basically meaning the concept that, like, people have this, like, report card of attributes, you know. They're smart, they're tenacious, they're gritty, they're knowledgeable, whatever, and it's this idea that one of these attributes is just, like, off the charts. And I think the idea

2. 0:50 – 1:46

   Why you can't have a checklist for founders

   1. JAJack Altman0:50

      is sort of, like, you know, somebody who's, like, an A+ in one place but, you know, has low scores somewhere else versus you have somebody else who's very well-rounded and sort of, you know, kind of relating that to kind of the quality of the founder. Anyway, I'm curious why this topic of identifying these attributes is so important to you. So maybe you could just start, like, how you think about these things.

   2. SPSpeaker1:08

      First of all, I have no list of attributes. In fact, we had... We tried to have so many, like, authors come into Founders Fund ages ago and try and be like, "Hey, hey, l- let's try and define what a Founders Fund founder is."

   3. JAJack Altman1:20

      It's a rubric.

   4. SPSpeaker1:20

      And we start using, like, all these, like, attributes like, uh, type A or not needy or... I don't know. It's nonsense, right? It never, it never worked. It's never accurate. So I decided to just go the exact other way, and I do not have a checklist, and I do not have a rubric at all. It's just purely one of those... But I am looking for people who spike [laughs] -

   5. JAJack Altman1:37

      Yeah

   6. SPSpeaker1:37

      ... with me. It's just, I... It just can be different every single time.

   7. JAJack Altman1:40

      Can it be something that you're like, "They're really good at that thing, but it's so irrelevant to the company they're building, I don't care"?

   8. SPSpeaker1:45

      Well, I don't know if

3. 1:46 – 3:55

   How Brian looks for spikes

   1. SPSpeaker1:46

      it can be so irrelevant, but it is, it... I am open to whatever they spike in being anything.

   2. JAJack Altman1:51

      Yeah.

   3. SPSpeaker1:51

      In fact, one of the things I love doing the most in this world still is figuring out what it is somebody is the best at, and can they leverage that, right, to win at whatever it is that they're doing?

   4. JAJack Altman2:01

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SPSpeaker2:02

      Right? Like, I'm, I'm a gamer, right? I'm always looking for, like, what are the leverage points? What are the things that you're just better than everybody else at, and can you exploit those strengths to win at whatever it is? And so I don't think it can be totally irrelevant.

   6. JAJack Altman2:16

      Yeah.

   7. SPSpeaker2:16

      But I think that the goal for people, I really do think that the goal for people in professional life or whatever you wanna call it-

   8. JAJack Altman2:23

      Yeah, yeah

   9. SPSpeaker2:23

      ... is to find that Ven... you know, the Venn diagram of, like, what you're really good at meets what you love, means what you can actually, like, win at.

   10. JAJack Altman2:32

       Eco guy.

   11. SPSpeaker2:32

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, in a, in a real way.

   12. JAJack Altman2:34

       Yeah.

   13. SPSpeaker2:34

       And so that's what I'm looking for.

   14. JAJack Altman2:35

       Yeah, I mean, I feel like, um, this kind of relates to something that Peter and all of you guys have talked about a bunch, which is, like, competitions for losers, where you should basically find the dimension of the game that you are so much better at, and then you should tilt the game in that favor somehow.

   15. SPSpeaker2:47

       That's right. I, I totally agree with that. Like, I think that the competitions for losers is, like, a fun way of saying it.

   16. JAJack Altman2:52

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   17. SPSpeaker2:52

       But I'm more the latter of what you just said. Like, okay, the game's the game.

   18. JAJack Altman2:56

       Yeah.

   19. SPSpeaker2:56

       And figure out how you tilt it to be more towards what you are really good at. Like, don't try and beat other people at what, at what they are better than you at. But to do this-

   20. JAJack Altman3:04

       Yes

   21. SPSpeaker3:04

       ... requires what, what... You know, radical honesty, at least with yourself.

   22. JAJack Altman3:09

       Yeah.

   23. SPSpeaker3:09

       Right? Like, regardless of what you show to the world-

   24. JAJack Altman3:12

       Yeah

   25. SPSpeaker3:12

       ... or show to other people, like, you gotta be honest with yourself-

   26. JAJack Altman3:16

       Yeah

   27. SPSpeaker3:16

       ... about what you're actually good at and what you're not good at.

   28. JAJack Altman3:18

       Yeah. I was nowhere near, I don't think, as big or good a gamer as you, but I was, like, a pretty big gamer as a kid. And I played games like StarCraft and Warcraft and stuff.

   29. SPSpeaker3:26

       Sure.

   30. JAJack Altman3:26

       And it's basically all about imbalances, and so it's like-
4. 3:55 – 6:54

   How Founders Fund played to its strengths

   1. JAJack Altman3:55

      won't play the game in the way that they can tilt the board.

   2. SPSpeaker3:57

      Correct. I'm all about figuring out, like, just owning it, owning what you're actually good at, owning what you're not good at. Figure out how to tilt it to what you're good at.

   3. JAJack Altman4:04

      Can you give me some, uh... just, like, connect this dot to some of the, like, Founders Fund, like, success story examples? You know, some of the companies in those founders.

   4. SPSpeaker4:11

      Well, we, you know, Founders Fund is, it happened in, like, a really organic way. I mean, like, you have these ridiculously smart people who spike or whatever in their own ways.

   5. JAJack Altman4:20

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SPSpeaker4:20

      But it wasn't going to, like, be... We could never have any, like, rules there, right? [laughs]

   7. JAJack Altman4:25

      Yeah.

   8. SPSpeaker4:25

      Like, in the early days of Founders Fund, we tried for like a minute to have, like, you know, uh, investment memos, and we tried for a week to have partner meetings [laughs] and something like this, and it didn't work for us.

   9. JAJack Altman4:36

      Yeah.

   10. SPSpeaker4:36

       It's not that that's not the, that's... It's not that that's globally wrong. It just didn't work for us because we were really honest about, like, "Okay, let's just put all that stuff aside, figure out, like, what this team is really good at, and play to our strengths." Like, back in the early days, like, Sean would never show up, right? But dude would stick his head up, like, every once in a while and say, "Facebook" or-

   11. JAJack Altman4:57

       Yeah

   12. SPSpeaker4:57

       ... "Spotify." And you know what? That's pretty freaking good. [laughs] Like-

   13. JAJack Altman5:00

       I, I saw... I randomly got a chance to, um, see, like, something Sean Parker wrote about Spotify.

   14. SPSpeaker5:06

       Yeah.

   15. JAJack Altman5:07

       And I was just like-

   16. SPSpeaker5:07

       I think I sent that to a couple of people. It's the most, it's what, it's like the most amazing-

   17. JAJack Altman5:11

       It was so good

   18. SPSpeaker5:11

       ... it's like the most amazing investment memo I've ever seen written.

   19. JAJack Altman5:15

       Yeah. So was that, like, the quality of, you know... I, I, I know you don't do memos, but is that what was the factor?

   20. SPSpeaker5:21

       That happened one time in Founders Fund's history.

   21. JAJack Altman5:23

       That's funny, and it worked out.

   22. SPSpeaker5:24

       [laughs] And I mean, it was, it was one of the best companies ever.

   23. JAJack Altman5:26

       That's funny. The way that Anduril came together, and obviously I know you're, you've been intimately connected since the beginning, and so, um, obviously, you know, share whatever's comfortable. But i- if we could connect to the, this idea of the founder attributes and how important they are.

   24. SPSpeaker5:39

       Oh, yeah.

   25. JAJack Altman5:40

       What were some of the founder attributes there that turned out to really matter? And can you, like, walk that out a little bit so people can feel it?

   26. SPSpeaker5:46

       Sure. I mean, Anduril's actually a great example of this because I don't think with... I don't think any one sing- single one of the founders, like, I'm gonna call it four founders of Anduril, right? And so I don't think with any single one founder, it's like, oh, spiky in every single way. It's the perfect example of a team of people who are very good at different things, and I think the combination of the four founders of Anduril is cannot be beat, right? Like, and they're so different. Like, Palmer, you know- I've known Palmer since he was whatever, 18, 19. Like we- I was the first investor in Oculus.

   27. JAJack Altman6:18

       Mm-hmm.

   28. SPSpeaker6:18

       Now, that was a screw-up on my part 'cause I didn't go bigger in that, you know, f- helping formulate later-in-life stuff.

   29. JAJack Altman6:25

       Yeah.

   30. SPSpeaker6:25

       But Palmer is your perfect example of, like, unbelievably brilliant, creative, mad scientist-
5. 6:54 – 12:04

   The Anduril founding team

   1. SPSpeaker6:54

      on, like, products and future products and, like, h- seeing where his mind goes, that's what you wanna do with him. You don't wanna, like, have him bogged down with, like-

   2. JAJack Altman7:00

      Operational reviews

   3. SPSpeaker7:01

      ... being the CEO of something or other.

   4. JAJack Altman7:02

      Yeah.

   5. SPSpeaker7:02

      Like, that would be a waste of e- of, of everything, right? And then, like, you get, like, a guy like Grimm who's just, like, so unbelievably good at operations, and, like, actually to get... Almost, like, I'm gonna say opposite, but in some ways, the, the total counter to Palmer, right? Like, it's just like he actually can get this stuff done. Like, Palmer can have one of his ideas, and, like, Grimm can actually get it done, right? Trey is extremely good at high-level connections, extremely good at high-level networking, extremely good at establishing, like, relationships and networks that are like nobody else in the space. He's extremely good at that, right? And then you got a guy like Brian Chip, right, like, as actual CEO who's so good at dealing with these types of personalities, right?

   6. JAJack Altman7:41

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SPSpeaker7:41

      To be the CEO of something like that, and I'll get into this in the Founders Fund, too, but, like, you've got to be just so both smart, respected by all of these types of different people, right, and be able to just put it all together.

   8. JAJack Altman7:53

      Yes.

   9. SPSpeaker7:53

      And, like, when we found, you know, him-

   10. JAJack Altman7:55

       Yeah

   11. SPSpeaker7:55

       ... it was just like-

   12. JAJack Altman7:56

       Yeah

   13. SPSpeaker7:56

       ... "Oh, yeah, this guy is gonna be able to put it all together."

   14. JAJack Altman7:58

       It- To manage those kinds of personalities-

   15. SPSpeaker8:00

       It's-

   16. JAJack Altman8:00

       You both have to, like, be respected by and respect them, I guess.

   17. SPSpeaker8:03

       That's correct.

   18. JAJack Altman8:04

       Yeah.

   19. SPSpeaker8:04

       And it- And that, and that's... I can't stress enough how hard that is to have people like Palmer Luckey-

   20. JAJack Altman8:09

       Yeah

   21. SPSpeaker8:09

       ... and Trey Stevens and these kinds of... and Matt Grimm just go like, "Oh, yeah, we'll defer to the CEO to make these decisions at the end of the..." 'Cause at the end of the day, the CEO makes these decisions.

   22. JAJack Altman8:19

       Can you put your finger on what that is, or is that just some overall level of competence and trustworthiness?

   23. SPSpeaker8:24

       Again, it's just what he is really good at. He's very n- does not get riled, knows how to n- understands people's personalities, knows how to, like, knows what their strengths are, doesn't deny their strengths, knows where they're brilliant, knows where they're weak, and can put it together such that people trust his holistic decision. I mean, there have been crazy amounts of conflicts in that company, but when Chip makes a decision, that's the decision, and I love that. [laughs] Like, it's just, like, so impressive, right?

   24. JAJack Altman8:53

       It's interesting what you say about, like, you know, it doesn't all have to come from one person. We, we, um, recently met with, like, a phenomenal growth stage CEO who was basically making the point that he thinks too many people, even now within a company, settle on, "I've got to choose between my head of sales being the operational type or the sales savant type." He's like, "I'm not gonna choose. I'm gonna have two. I'm gonna make them work together, and then I get both."

   25. SPSpeaker9:14

       Correct. But you've got to be the type of person that can then make them-

   26. JAJack Altman9:16

       Yeah

   27. SPSpeaker9:16

       ... work together.

   28. JAJack Altman9:17

       Yeah.

   29. SPSpeaker9:17

       Right? 'Cause too many times you'll have these kind of dominant personalities and various things, and if you get a, if you have, if you don't have that person who has the resp- as you pointed out, the respect and respect-

   30. JAJack Altman9:26

       Yeah
6. 12:04 – 14:12

   Shared beliefs as the foundation of company culture

   1. JAJack Altman12:04

      Yeah

   2. SPSpeaker12:04

      ... like, pro-

   3. JAJack Altman12:04

      Totally

   4. SPSpeaker12:04

      ... right, like, kind of a culture.

   5. JAJack Altman12:07

      Is there another company besides Palantir that's worth going into that would be worth talking about? And then we can, we can go back and we can talk the Palantir a bit.

   6. SPSpeaker12:14

      In terms of, like, a-

   7. JAJack Altman12:15

      Like, is there ano- is there one more example besides Anduril that you can talk to, that you feel comfortable talking about? You know, about how the founder mapped that. Like maybe Cognition, if you were involved in that one, or I don't know, what's another company that could make sense to draw out this concept of like the founder specialness and, you know, how it played out in the company?

   8. SPSpeaker12:32

      I mean, I think, I think, I think all of them, right? Like, to some extent. Like, you can always backtrack this to like, what i- what did, what is the stupid like venture term for it? Founder market fit?

   9. JAJack Altman12:42

      Yeah.

   10. SPSpeaker12:43

       Is [laughs] that like the-

   11. JAJack Altman12:44

       Yeah. Yeah

   12. SPSpeaker12:44

       ... the venture speak-

   13. JAJack Altman12:45

       Yeah

   14. SPSpeaker12:45

       ... you know, version of it?

   15. JAJack Altman12:46

       Yeah.

   16. SPSpeaker12:46

       I mean, I think you can always like back into to, to that for everything.

   17. JAJack Altman12:50

       Yeah.

   18. SPSpeaker12:50

       But for me, it was always just a... Here, here's how I knew it. Okay, how about this?

   19. JAJack Altman12:55

       Yeah.

   20. SPSpeaker12:55

       I c- I, let me take you through how I kind of judged the holistic sense of the founding team. Um, and for me it was never just about the CEO, but it was only about the founders.

   21. JAJack Altman13:05

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SPSpeaker13:06

       Right?

   23. JAJack Altman13:06

       Mm-hmm.

   24. SPSpeaker13:06

       Like it was, it was about the founding team. It was critical for me to speak to all the founders.

   25. JAJack Altman13:09

       You needed to meet everybody.

   26. SPSpeaker13:10

       The, all the founders.

   27. JAJack Altman13:11

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   28. SPSpeaker13:11

       Not all the head of whatever the hell.

   29. JAJack Altman13:12

       Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   30. SPSpeaker13:13

       Right? Like, but I did need to meet all... I did not want to just meet the CEO, I wanted to meet all the founders because of-
7. 14:12 – 19:06

   How Brian spent time with founders

   1. SPSpeaker14:12

      on that, or supplement yourself-

   2. JAJack Altman14:13

      Totally

   3. SPSpeaker14:13

      ... with the people that do know what they're talking about. So it's like, that was always a good litmus test for me. It's like, if the different founder would speak about the different thing, I was like, "That's good."

   4. JAJack Altman14:20

      That is good. Man, when people speak about stuff that they don't know, and then you're just like, it's gonna be very hard to work together.

   5. SPSpeaker14:25

      Yeah.

   6. JAJack Altman14:25

      And you can never ad- if you can never just be like, "I don't know, let's move on," rather than, "I'm gonna-"

   7. SPSpeaker14:28

      I would much rather them say that. Or even, let's say a co-founder wasn't there.

   8. JAJack Altman14:31

      Yeah.

   9. SPSpeaker14:31

      I would much rather them say, "You know what? I don't know that, you should meet my co-founder."

   10. JAJack Altman14:33

       Yeah.

   11. SPSpeaker14:33

       Okay. Then, then I accept that answer better than them trying to like speak about everything that they don't know.

   12. JAJack Altman14:37

       Yeah. One of the things that I appreciated that you, um, asked me when we hung out last time was you were like, you know, y- you were kind of trying to get at like what my, you know, attributes might be.

   13. SPSpeaker14:49

       Yeah.

   14. JAJack Altman14:49

       And you asked me like, you know, "No, no, there's no need for you to try to be humble. Just-"

   15. SPSpeaker14:54

       Yeah

   16. JAJack Altman14:55

       ..."just what do you think you're best at?" And I was, I reflect on that a lot because I think the way you asked it gave a lot of permission for the person to just share what they think they might be, which shortcuts so much other work that you'd have to do-

   17. SPSpeaker15:08

       Yeah. Yes

   18. JAJack Altman15:08

       ... to give the person space to do that.

   19. SPSpeaker15:09

       I loved it. Like, look at what I'm doing now in my life is like, I love learning what people are truly the best at, and it can be anything. So I encourage... Like, in other words, it's, it's kind of like don't be humble when hum- humility is not necessary, but B, don't speak about things that you don't actually know. [laughs]

   20. JAJack Altman15:25

       Yeah.

   21. SPSpeaker15:25

       Right? Like it's bo- it's both sides. Like, the stuff that you are good at, great, let that shine, right? And the stuff that you're-

   22. JAJack Altman15:31

       Totally

   23. SPSpeaker15:31

       ... weak at, like, don't try and pretend like you're strong.

   24. JAJack Altman15:34

       Have you found any other, um, I don't want to say tips and tricks, but what else have you found helpful in getting to the essence of this? 'Cause I think that like there's been a lot of ink spilled and a lot of time centered around the work of trying to figure out if somebody is great.

   25. SPSpeaker15:51

       Yeah.

   26. JAJack Altman15:51

       And I think very few people can actually do it.

   27. SPSpeaker15:53

       Yeah.

   28. JAJack Altman15:53

       And so-

   29. SPSpeaker15:53

       I get, I try and get away from generics as soon as possible. Like, so a lot of times people are, even if they're like not trying to be humble, they've be- they'll have been like, especially like people like, you know, especially if you've been around Silicon Valley a long time or whatever, you're like trained in this way of like speaking or whatever, right? I just try and get beyond that, um, immediately. Not just saying bes- by the things like, "Oh, no need to be humble on the things that you're good at," but like trying to like stop speaking in cliché terms.

   30. JAJack Altman16:20

       Yeah.
8. 19:06 – 20:25

   What Brian is genuinely best at

   1. SPSpeaker19:06

      and, and you give them a company or in my case, like a, a firm where they actually can play to those strengths-

   2. JAJack Altman19:12

      Yes

   3. SPSpeaker19:12

      ... that's a pretty good winning combination.

   4. JAJack Altman19:14

      Okay. So, um, now let, let's talk about GPx.

   5. SPSpeaker19:17

      Yeah.

   6. JAJack Altman19:17

      Can you just, just for context for everybody, can you just quickly explain like what it is?

   7. SPSpeaker19:21

      Yeah. GPx is kind of like a... We're investing in emerging managers or solo GPs or whatever you want to call them.

   8. JAJack Altman19:28

      Yeah.

   9. SPSpeaker19:28

      Not the big name, name funds, right?

   10. JAJack Altman19:30

       Yeah.

   11. SPSpeaker19:30

       Um, for lots of reasons. But what we do is we take those what, you know, what we call elite athletes or elite GPs, and we enable them to be m- even better at what they do in a couple of ways. Number one, you know, me and my... So I'm partnering with a guy named Lee Linden, who runs Quiet Capital on this. So me and Lee will be your consigliere.

   12. JAJack Altman19:51

       Mm.

   13. SPSpeaker19:51

       There's very few times where you get an actual consigliere who's returned billions of dollars in venture capital, right? So we will be these GPs' consigliere. They can call us for anything. We will get to the honest core of the conversation. Like most LPs are really good LPs because they don't mess it up.

   14. JAJack Altman20:05

       Yeah.

   15. SPSpeaker20:05

       Like, that's a great LP. [laughs]

   16. JAJack Altman20:06

       Yeah.

   17. SPSpeaker20:06

       Just don't mess it up, right?

   18. JAJack Altman20:07

       Yeah.

   19. SPSpeaker20:07

       I mean, like I think I can take that another step further, um, by actually being a true venture consigliere. So that's number one. Um, number two, we have our own LP base that we can supply them with. We can get into that later. But number three, when they are ready to bet their career on something, right? And this is critical. Like not... Y- y-

9. 20:25 – 23:12

   GPx: backing elite emerging managers

   1. SPSpeaker20:25

      if you're a GP and you put 1% to 2% of your fund into something, who cares if it goes to zero, right? It doesn't, it doesn't matter. But you put 20% of your fund into something, that better work. So you're only doing that if that's gonna actually work and you know that's gonna work, so you can kind of go all in on it. We enable that to happen for these GPs by writing. We have the ability to write programmatic and automatic capital to them when they bet their career on something, so they can preempt rounds with that capital. They don't n- they... I don't have a veto on that capital. These are people who don't want a boss. They would love a strategic partner, but we could never hire them at Founders Fund because they don't want a boss, right? But if we enable them to actually win some of these rounds that they otherwise would have not enough capital, or they'd have to go raise some SPV, and I can tell you why I think SPVs are dead, but they'd have to go raise some stupid SPV and that takes like, you know, a long time. With me, they can preempt that round as long as they're willing to bet their career on the company.

   2. JAJack Altman21:20

      Which is 20%.

   3. SPSpeaker21:21

      Roughly.

   4. JAJack Altman21:22

      Yeah.

   5. SPSpeaker21:22

      I mean, it's all tailored per the GP.

   6. JAJack Altman21:24

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   7. SPSpeaker21:24

      Because different strategies are a little bit different, right?

   8. JAJack Altman21:25

      But it's some gigantic commitment.

   9. SPSpeaker21:27

      Like some gigantic, some like, "No, you can't miss on this."

   10. JAJack Altman21:29

       Yeah, yeah.

   11. SPSpeaker21:30

       Whereas-

   12. JAJack Altman21:31

       And then you don't even need to know anything about the company-

   13. SPSpeaker21:33

       No

   14. JAJack Altman21:33

       ... because you already trusted the GP, and now they're-

   15. SPSpeaker21:34

       Yeah

   16. JAJack Altman21:34

       ... staking their career, so you're good to go.

   17. SPSpeaker21:36

       That's exactly right. It's... What you're... What we have to do is be really, really, really, really, really good at picking those GPs who don't like YOLO and aren't g- like, you know. And I work with them on this, right?

   18. JAJack Altman21:45

       Mm.

   19. SPSpeaker21:45

       Like, like this won't... When they choose to go all in on a company, it's not gonna be my first or even 10th time hearing about the company. They're gonna be talking to me about it, right?

   20. JAJack Altman21:52

       I think you said to me that you were kind of like you knew it... You, you knew you were ready to be done with VC when like, you know, the, the, the incremental pitch meeting was just like the bubblegum had lost its flavor kind of thing.

   21. SPSpeaker22:02

       It had.

   22. JAJack Altman22:03

       Yeah.

   23. SPSpeaker22:03

       Even, even with an A+ founder.

   24. JAJack Altman22:05

       Yeah.

   25. SPSpeaker22:05

       Like all I could start thinking about in general pitch meetings was like, "How do I get out of this meeting?"

   26. JAJack Altman22:09

       Yeah.

   27. SPSpeaker22:09

       And that's really bad 'cause no-

   28. JAJack Altman22:10

       Even when in the face of greatness, you felt that way?

   29. SPSpeaker22:11

       Even the face of greatness.

   30. JAJack Altman22:12

       Wow.
10. 23:12 – 25:30

    Why Brian knew he was done with traditional VC

    1. SPSpeaker23:12

       so like imagine you're a musician and you wrote a song.

    2. JAJack Altman23:15

       Yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker23:15

       And it was a hit song, and everybody loved the song, and it's your song. You know, it's like great. It's your song and you love it, but like you've played that song every single night of your life for the last 30 fucking years.

    4. JAJack Altman23:23

       Yeah.

    5. SPSpeaker23:24

       And you just can't play the song anymore.

    6. JAJack Altman23:25

       Yeah, yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker23:26

       That was like with... That's what happened with the pitch meetings, and very unfortunate because again, I think there's still top-tier founders and great companies, but now I can be-

    8. JAJack Altman23:33

       Yeah

    9. SPSpeaker23:33

       ... a level removed and still get to work with those top companies. [laughs]

    10. JAJack Altman23:36

        So I mean, I gu- I guess the, the, the, uh, the central goal is the same, which is you're trying to spot greatness.

    11. SPSpeaker23:43

        Yeah.

    12. JAJack Altman23:44

        But now what-

    13. SPSpeaker23:45

        Exactly the same

    14. JAJack Altman23:45

        ... but now what you're trying to spot is not greatness directly.

    15. SPSpeaker23:48

        Correct.

    16. JAJack Altman23:48

        It's people who can spot... You're trying to spot people who can spot greatness.

    17. SPSpeaker23:51

        I'm... No. It's a similar kind of thing. It's actually like it's, it's even more similar to the founder thing than you think. I'm not trying to spot people who can spot greatness. I'm trying to spot people who like can play the game of venture capital, who can tilt the game of venture capital to their, uh... to, to make themselves win, who are so honest with themselves, who know their strengths so well. I, I'm looking for people who could have beaten me-

    18. JAJack Altman24:11

        Yeah

    19. SPSpeaker24:11

        ... in my prime.

    20. JAJack Altman24:12

        Yeah.

    21. SPSpeaker24:12

        Not because they can spot greatness. Maybe that's not part of their strategy, right? Like-

    22. JAJack Altman24:15

        Because they can play a game that they can win.

    23. SPSpeaker24:17

        Yes. Yes. I'm betting on elite athletes-

    24. JAJack Altman24:20

        Yes

    25. SPSpeaker24:20

        ... playing a game that I know that they can win, and when those elite athletes bet their career, that's when I go in with them.

    26. JAJack Altman24:25

        Which I think implied in this, but correct me if you disagree, I think implied in this is you're saying the, the, the selection is one of many parts of venture.

    27. SPSpeaker24:33

        Yes.

    28. JAJack Altman24:34

        And so spotting talent is only one part.

    29. SPSpeaker24:37

        Correct.

    30. JAJack Altman24:37

        There's all these other parts of the game.
11. 25:30 – 29:38

    "I'm looking for people who could have beaten me in my prime"

    1. SPSpeaker25:30

       And back in the... What they would do in the past, or one of the things they probably still do, is pick a company where their, maybe their skill is not relevant for every company, and that's totally fine. They know where their skill is relevant, and it's like a really good company, and they know they can go in and make that company just do ridiculously well, and they pick one company, and they go all... They work at that company. Okay. But what if you're one of these 100Xer guys, and especially in these days with AI, like, and you can, like, actually leverage yourself. So we know... So I know a coup- one guy who's doing this. He's one of these 100Xer guys. He has a niche skill, like not useful for every company, but for the ones that it is-

    2. JAJack Altman26:01

       Yeah

    3. SPSpeaker26:02

       ... it truly is. And he's like, "Why don't I leverage myself?" So his portfolio, his investment portfolio, is like gonna be like five, six companies, all of which he is actually operating at. They're not competitive with each other.

    4. JAJack Altman26:12

       Yeah.

    5. SPSpeaker26:13

       Right?

    6. JAJack Altman26:13

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker26:13

       But going and operating, doing his 100X thing for all these companies, making them all worth that, that to me is pretty freaking novel.

    8. JAJack Altman26:20

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker26:20

       Like, most venture capitalists do not do that, right?

    10. JAJack Altman26:23

        Yeah.

    11. SPSpeaker26:23

        Like, I would never go operate in a company.

    12. JAJack Altman26:24

        Well, the other thing that's good about that is it's not the type of strategy that's, um, exploitable by some... Like-

    13. SPSpeaker26:29

        Correct

    14. JAJack Altman26:29

        ... like, it's not something where it's like I can have a great fund one, but then if other people realize it, they're gonna swoop in.

    15. SPSpeaker26:33

        You can't copy this.

    16. JAJack Altman26:34

        There are strategies that will, like, work for a fund-

    17. SPSpeaker26:36

        Yeah

    18. JAJack Altman26:36

        ... but then won't keep working.

    19. SPSpeaker26:37

        That's right. That's right.

    20. JAJack Altman26:38

        And this is not one of those.

    21. SPSpeaker26:39

        This, this can work because it's like you... He can be like, "Well, good luck cloning me" [chuckles] like, or good... Like-

    22. JAJack Altman26:43

        Yeah.

    23. SPSpeaker26:43

        It's like you, if you're truly one of these N-of-1 guys-

    24. JAJack Altman26:46

        Yeah

    25. SPSpeaker26:46

        ... then that strategy can play for a while, and you don't have to choose this one.

    26. JAJack Altman26:50

        Totally.

    27. SPSpeaker26:50

        You leverage yourself. So I love that.

    28. JAJack Altman26:51

        Yeah.

    29. SPSpeaker26:51

        That's just one example. But, like, there's, there's, you know, there's lots of the people that I'm working with, maybe they... Again, it's, it's tough with me because I'm so gut-based-

    30. JAJack Altman26:59

        Yeah
12. 29:38 – 30:40

    GPx's structure and the bet-your-career mechanism

    1. SPSpeaker29:38

       here, Jack.

    2. JAJack Altman29:38

       Yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker29:38

       But you put it into the tier one multi-stages, but only the tier one.

    4. JAJack Altman29:42

       Yeah.

    5. SPSpeaker29:43

       Right?

    6. JAJack Altman29:43

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker29:43

       You figure out who's currently tier one. And the good news for those is, like, you can see the performance. You know who they are. It's like the hard part is just getting a big enough check in.

    8. JAJack Altman29:52

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker29:52

       Right? Like, I can use Founders Fund's case here. It's like, yeah, you should definitely... Any, a-you-

    10. JAJack Altman29:57

        Yeah

    11. SPSpeaker29:57

        ... whatever you can put into Founders Fund, you should put into Founders Fund, right? But good luck getting a big enough check in.

    12. JAJack Altman30:02

        Yeah.

    13. SPSpeaker30:02

        That's the problem.

    14. JAJack Altman30:03

        Yeah.

    15. SPSpeaker30:03

        Okay. Um, then my, say, part two of the optimal venture strategy. So one is this tier one and only tier one, right? Part two is put your money into the most elite emerging managers. This is great for lots of reasons, right? Number one, like, you can totally s- as they become the next Founders Fund, as they become the next-

    16. JAJack Altman30:20

        You'll hit something and you'll be an anchor

    17. SPSpeaker30:21

        ... you can scale with them. At Founders Fund, like, if you invested in our first institutional fund, you got to scale as much as you wanted with us, right? Every, every-

    18. JAJack Altman30:28

        Yeah

    19. SPSpeaker30:28

        ... this, this is co- Everybody loves their first backers, right?

    20. JAJack Altman30:30

        Yes, of course.

    21. SPSpeaker30:30

        Everybody loves their true believers. Okay.

    22. JAJack Altman30:33

        Of course.

    23. SPSpeaker30:33

        Same with GP world, right?

    24. JAJack Altman30:35

        Yeah.

    25. SPSpeaker30:35

        So as these GPs become the ne- And that's why we don't... By the way, this is why we don't charge carry on the fund investments. We want our

13. 30:40 – 34:49

    The optimal LP allocation to venture

    1. SPSpeaker30:40

       LPs to be able to scale in with these elite emerging managers.

    2. JAJack Altman30:43

       That's right.

    3. SPSpeaker30:43

       Right? Like, that's the whole point. They can co-invest with us. Doesn't matter. We're not a gatekeeper for it. Use our impression. U- u- use our opinion of who is the elite and go for it, right? Okay. So it's really important to invest in the most elite. You can scale with them, and the returns at the top end can exceed the returns of the mul- of the mul- just because, like, the fund sizes are smaller and this and that are-

    4. JAJack Altman30:59

       Yeah, but it's just not enough dollars.

    5. SPSpeaker31:00

       Yes. There's two problems with it. A, it's not enough dollars, but B, there's thousands of emerging managers.

    6. JAJack Altman31:05

       Yep.

    7. SPSpeaker31:05

       It's, like, really, really, really... You- It's, like, not like the top-tier multi-stage VCs where you kinda know who they are, right?

    8. JAJack Altman31:10

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker31:10

       Like, this is really hard.

    10. JAJack Altman31:12

        Yes.

    11. SPSpeaker31:12

        This is what I love.

    12. JAJack Altman31:13

        Yes.

    13. SPSpeaker31:13

        So this is what we're doing.

    14. JAJack Altman31:14

        Yes. Makes sense. On, on the topic of spotting talent-

    15. SPSpeaker31:18

        Mm-hmm

    16. JAJack Altman31:18

        ... do you think that in order... So taking aside all the other imbalances that you can create as a solo, which I actually wanna go to 'cause, you know, I thought about this a bunch-

    17. SPSpeaker31:26

        Yeah

    18. JAJack Altman31:26

        ... even when I was doing that.

    19. SPSpeaker31:27

        Yeah.

    20. JAJack Altman31:27

        But, uh, on talent spotting itself, do you think that you must be a sort of an imbalance report card yourself to spot another imbalance report card, even if it's in a different stack?

    21. SPSpeaker31:38

        Man, this is a great question.

    22. JAJack Altman31:39

        Or, or can a, somebody who is an A minus at everything still spot an A-plus FFFFF?

    23. SPSpeaker31:44

        It's a great question. I don't know. I can tell you that, for me, I think it's really critical that I think that I'm really good, that I'm one of the best at something in order to spot them, because then I can sense, like... I know when I'm talking about something that I know really well that I think I'm really the best at, right? Like, I know how it makes me feel. I know how it makes me sound or whatever, versus when I'm trying to, like... You know, a little bit unsure.

    24. JAJack Altman32:05

        Yeah.

    25. SPSpeaker32:05

        So that part-

    26. JAJack Altman32:06

        Mm

    27. SPSpeaker32:06

        ... I think is a good game attracts game, if you will.

    28. JAJack Altman32:10

        Yeah.

    29. SPSpeaker32:10

        'Cause you can tell when somebody is speaking about something in a way that-

    30. JAJack Altman32:13

        They truly know their deal
14. 34:49 – 41:00

    Why SPVs are dead

    1. SPSpeaker34:49

       can come from either, oh, this person actually is an expert in this thing, and I list- see... Or it could come from, this person co-founded this company with me.

    2. JAJack Altman34:57

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SPSpeaker34:57

       Right? I think that's a big one, actually. Like, this is why I love... It's like, if you're a manager and you're, like, actually co-founding companies, I mean, look, two of the best companies and founders in history, like-

    4. JAJack Altman35:07

       Yeah

    5. SPSpeaker35:07

       ... maybe third. Like, you know, I think we've got a couple more that people have founded. Like, Delian and Scott founded companies, right? Like, that are really freaking good.

    6. JAJack Altman35:14

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker35:14

       Okay? And so, like, if you... That is a way of earning trust. Like, you're, if you're an investor who also co-founded the company, like what, like what Frankel does, right? And so that, I think, goes a, a long, long, long way.

    8. JAJack Altman35:25

       I appreciate the clarification 'cause I think a lot of times people hear the trust and they interpret it in the sort of personal sense of trust. Like, oh, our families have gotten together and we had a dinner together.

    9. SPSpeaker35:34

       Maybe that, maybe that could be it, but like-

    10. JAJack Altman35:36

        Well, I think that's-

    11. SPSpeaker35:37

        No, I think it's like-

    12. JAJack Altman35:37

        I think that's like a table stake though

    13. SPSpeaker35:37

        ... I think it's like, that might be ta- I... That's why I agree with you. That's why I'm saying maybe that's it.

    14. JAJack Altman35:40

        That's not.

    15. SPSpeaker35:40

        But I think that's table stakes.

    16. JAJack Altman35:41

        It's a different type of thing.

    17. SPSpeaker35:41

        No, I mean, like, really trust. Like, the GPx GPs that we have, when they go all in on a company, I am not expecting it to be some random company that they've been chasing along with every other venture cap-

    18. JAJack Altman35:52

        Yeah.

    19. SPSpeaker35:52

        Eh, that's not what I'm saying.

    20. JAJack Altman35:53

        It's like you trust that their advice is good. You trust that they can help you. It's like that form of trust.

    21. SPSpeaker35:56

        Or they have been helping you.

    22. JAJack Altman35:57

        Yeah.

    23. SPSpeaker35:58

        Like, I'm expecting that these guys are gonna win the kind of company, the big round and the kind of company because they co-founded the company.

    24. JAJack Altman36:03

        Right.

    25. SPSpeaker36:04

        And the founder just has, like-

    26. JAJack Altman36:05

        Yeah. Okay.

    27. SPSpeaker36:06

        It's more than just, like, oh, loose trust. It's like-

    28. JAJack Altman36:08

        It would be, like, absurd to do anything other than let them loose.

    29. SPSpeaker36:10

        Yes, as long as they had the capital.

    30. JAJack Altman36:11

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15. 41:00 – 43:51

    How Founders Fund made the second most money on Airbnb

    1. SPSpeaker41:00

       slow on Airbnb.

    2. JAJack Altman41:01

       It's a great point. It's the inverse of good money after bad, and I think like-

    3. SPSpeaker41:03

       Yes

    4. JAJack Altman41:04

       ... people are very good at realizing that on not putting more money in if they don't like it.

    5. SPSpeaker41:07

       Sure.

    6. JAJack Altman41:08

       But I think people struggle in the other direction.

    7. SPSpeaker41:09

       We struggle in the other... We didn't struggle in the other direction. We're just like, "Oh, yep."

    8. JAJack Altman41:12

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker41:12

       "Airbnb is really good now. Let's just fix this by putting the most money we possibly can to the company because we know how good it is."

    10. JAJack Altman41:18

        Yes.

    11. SPSpeaker41:19

        And so I think we made the second most amount of money on Airbnb, even though we were like-

    12. JAJack Altman41:22

        Wow

    13. SPSpeaker41:22

        ... super late.

    14. JAJack Altman41:23

        And you did it at like 2 billion or something, right?

    15. SPSpeaker41:25

        We did something like 2 billion, but we put like 150 million into the company.

    16. JAJack Altman41:28

        Yeah.

    17. SPSpeaker41:28

        Right? And so like-

    18. JAJack Altman41:29

        A lot

    19. SPSpeaker41:29

        ... exactly.

    20. JAJack Altman41:30

        Multiply that by 50-

    21. SPSpeaker41:30

        This is, again-

    22. JAJack Altman41:30

        ... that's a big number

    23. SPSpeaker41:31

        ... hence my GPx strategy of like I don't actually-

    24. JAJack Altman41:33

        Yeah

    25. SPSpeaker41:33

        ... care at all about your ownership percentage.

    26. JAJack Altman41:36

        Yeah.

    27. SPSpeaker41:36

        It's people... Managers, when they talk to me, go, "Oh, well, we get this much ownership." I said, "I don't care. How much of your fund are you putting in?" Because like that's what's gonna actually determine your-

    28. JAJack Altman41:43

        Of course

    29. SPSpeaker41:43

        ... your, your multiples. Like-

    30. JAJack Altman41:45

        Yes
16. 43:51 – 49:10

    The concentration strategy

    1. SPSpeaker43:51

       do this is the most critical thing.

    2. JAJack Altman43:52

       Yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker43:52

       And you can't just be like, well, it's... Y- you're gonna lose a lot of money if you're like, "Oh, well, this is my best one, so all in."

    4. JAJack Altman43:57

       It's the best in this basket.

    5. SPSpeaker43:58

       Right. [laughs] Right. Like, so all in. Like, you're gonna lose a lot of money if you do that.

    6. JAJack Altman44:01

       That's right.

    7. SPSpeaker44:02

       Right?

    8. JAJack Altman44:02

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker44:02

       And so you've gotta be... This goes back to be honest. It's like, which one of these c- like, like, is what I... If, if the answer is no, that you don't have one, as you were pointing out, if you don't have a SpaceX in your portfolio-

    10. JAJack Altman44:13

        Yeah

    11. SPSpeaker44:13

        ... or whatever it is, okay. Part-

    12. JAJack Altman44:15

        Just-

    13. SPSpeaker44:15

        Just keep doing your thing.

    14. JAJack Altman44:17

        Part of what I think is hard is if you're not calibrated to what an Elon or a SpaceX looks like.

    15. SPSpeaker44:22

        Yeah.

    16. JAJack Altman44:22

        And so, you know, one of the things... I thought about this for myself. You know, I tried to, I tried to get myself calibrated as much as I could. But just knowing that, like, you probably are not calibrated to real greatness when you're a year or two or three into your venture career. You just can't be, I don't think. I mean, unless you got really lucky.

    17. SPSpeaker44:35

        I mean, there's a lot of people like having me as a consigliere.

    18. JAJack Altman44:38

        Yeah.

    19. SPSpeaker44:38

        And I'm really good at pushing them on that-

    20. JAJack Altman44:39

        Yeah

    21. SPSpeaker44:39

        ... and like comparing it to-

    22. JAJack Altman44:41

        Yeah

    23. SPSpeaker44:41

        ... like the Elons to the Ceskys to the Levchins of the world, right? Like-

    24. JAJack Altman44:44

        I mean, I feel like that calibration is really important, right? 'Cause otherwise you can't tell.

    25. SPSpeaker44:48

        It's critical.

    26. JAJack Altman44:48

        But then, so, so there's that, and then the other piece is like, you know, so there- there's both having one, but then there's also trusting yourself to know you've got one. And, you know, we've talked about this and this is a known th- I mean, Peter seems uniquely brilliant and able to see greatness when he has it. I think all of you guys were.

    27. SPSpeaker45:06

        Yeah.

    28. JAJack Altman45:06

        And so separate from having a SpaceX, like there were a lot of other investors in SpaceX who didn't invest 100 times. They kind of could've, but they maybe didn't. And so, you know, when, when you see this strategy, do you click... Like, what do you need to believe to believe that a manager's gonna be good at the concentration strategy?

    29. SPSpeaker45:23

        Oh, man. This is where I do need to see something of myself in them for, from a... You know, to, to be blunt about that. Like, I can't... If I see an element of like, "Oh, they're just doing the concentration thing 'cause they know that's what I want to hear," I, I, I'm very good-

    30. JAJack Altman45:37

        Yeah
17. 49:10 – 52:16

    How Founders Fund worked and Peter's role

    1. SPSpeaker49:10

       I very much believe this.

    2. JAJack Altman49:11

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SPSpeaker49:11

       Right? Like, I don't believe in entitlement. [laughs] And it's like you first have to like do really good and then you can start making real money.

    4. JAJack Altman49:17

       Yeah.

    5. SPSpeaker49:17

       Um, and so I think the... No, yeah, carry went up and down at Founders Fund.

    6. JAJack Altman49:22

       That's interesting.

    7. SPSpeaker49:22

       But it meant you didn't have to necessarily like-

    8. JAJack Altman49:25

       You didn't have to fire somebody

    9. SPSpeaker49:26

       ... fire somebody.

    10. JAJack Altman49:26

        Yeah.

    11. SPSpeaker49:26

        Like, if you, if you're in an equal partnership like Benchmark-

    12. JAJack Altman49:28

        If the only-

    13. SPSpeaker49:29

        ... and somebody's not pulling their weight, you- the only way is to-

    14. JAJack Altman49:31

        It, it's the only escape valve

    15. SPSpeaker49:32

        ... it's the only escape valve. Whereas Founders Fund, it's like you can be like, "Well, maybe this person's not, like, doing the bit." You can give them a smaller amount of carry and they can still-

    16. JAJack Altman49:38

        That's right

    17. SPSpeaker49:38

        ... have value or-

    18. JAJack Altman49:39

        Yes

    19. SPSpeaker49:39

        ... whatever it is, right? Like, that's the, the, the good news about that.

    20. JAJack Altman49:42

        It's actually a good point. I mean-

    21. SPSpeaker49:43

        The downside is it's fricking negotiation every single time.

    22. JAJack Altman49:45

        That's right.

    23. SPSpeaker49:45

        [laughs]

    24. JAJack Altman49:46

        Yeah. I've actually... I've thought about this a bunch 'cause I mean, like, you know, obviously, uh, I'm obviously biased, but I, I really enjoy the equal partner model for a bunch of reasons.

    25. SPSpeaker49:53

        Yeah.

    26. JAJack Altman49:53

        But-

    27. SPSpeaker49:53

        There's, there's pros and cons

    28. JAJack Altman49:54

        ... th- but this is one of the cons is that there's, um, you can't sort of like have the franchise model where you're like, "We would still rather have you than not have you, but-"

    29. SPSpeaker50:01

        Right

    30. JAJack Altman50:01

        ... "not at this level. And there's a world where we'd both rather you be in the next fund at half the carry, so let's do that."
18. 52:16 – 56:53

    What makes Peter Thiel the best venture capitalist in history

    1. SPSpeaker52:16

       greatest like, in my opinion, like team. It's very different than like a solo GP thing.

    2. JAJack Altman52:19

       Yeah. Yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker52:19

       It's a g- it's the, it's like the best team venture capital firm that there is.

    4. JAJack Altman52:23

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SPSpeaker52:23

       But like... Now, of course, I'm biased.

    6. JAJack Altman52:25

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker52:25

       But he's the reason for that.

    8. JAJack Altman52:28

       Hmm. How important was the way that the team worked together? Like, did the team need to like each other? Did the team need to respect each other?

    9. SPSpeaker52:36

       Oh, man. That's a great question.

    10. JAJack Altman52:36

        Like, what needed to be true for the team to work the way you're saying?

    11. SPSpeaker52:39

        Probably more the respect thing. Um, you had to realize like... I think the life thing, I mean, I think that we... You know, when you're dealing with a bunch of chaotic, outspoken people, sometimes people are gonna do things that-

    12. JAJack Altman52:53

        Confident. Yeah

    13. SPSpeaker52:54

        ... yeah, that you don't like.

    14. JAJack Altman52:55

        Yeah.

    15. SPSpeaker52:55

        So the que- the question is like, well, okay, but are they actually really, really, really good? 'Cause like it's like you have to not cross a line.

    16. JAJack Altman53:03

        Yeah.

    17. SPSpeaker53:03

        You can't cross this line of being like... You know, we always used to, you know... We always had to be like, you know, does a founder cross the line from being like just really good to like something more-

    18. JAJack Altman53:17

        Yeah

    19. SPSpeaker53:18

        ... worse that you don't want to deal with, right?

    20. JAJack Altman53:19

        Yeah.

    21. SPSpeaker53:19

        And I think with these, with, with the team at Founders Fund, it was like they're gonna do their crazy things. You... They can't go over a certain line, but otherwise you just have to respect them from their, for their, for their work.

    22. JAJack Altman53:32

        Yeah.

    23. SPSpeaker53:32

        'Cause this is the thing, you're hiring... You have a whole bunch of individuals.

    24. JAJack Altman53:34

        I actually think this kind of happens with founders too, where it, it's very easy to say in theory, "Oh yeah, I want people who are awesome at something, and I, you know, I want the spikiness." But then I think in practice, a lot of those people are uncomfortable in experience.

    25. SPSpeaker53:49

        Yeah.

    26. JAJack Altman53:50

        You know, in the day-to-day experience of a lot of the people we're talking about, founders or VCs, they're actually uncomfortable to be around. They do things that are uncomfortable, and I think a lot of people then can't actually sit with it, and I think that's part of what prevents people from investing in or partnering with these kinds of people.

    27. SPSpeaker54:02

        Yeah.

    28. JAJack Altman54:03

        Is 'cause the rest of the report card doesn't... Like, you know, when, when someone is that mismatched, which, you know, is sort of like definitional when someone's that good at something, like they're, they just behave in uncomfortable ways a lot of time, I've found.

    29. SPSpeaker54:13

        Yeah, I think it's true, but I think the flip side is also true. Like, what you don't want to do is just work with somebody because you just like them.

    30. JAJack Altman54:19

        Yeah. Yeah.
19. 56:53 – 58:02

    Solo GPs vs. teams

    1. SPSpeaker56:53

       bunch of my own songs, but I can't play anything.

    2. SPSpeaker56:56

       So how do you write it?

    3. SPSpeaker56:58

       Um, you know, I know enough music theory, and you can use DAWs, and you can, like, use MIDI controllers to get notes into the computer [laughs] and, and play around, right? So it's like-

    4. SPSpeaker57:06

       But you're not, like, playing it on piano or guitar?

    5. SPSpeaker57:08

       Not live, no.

    6. SPSpeaker57:09

       Really?

    7. SPSpeaker57:09

       I, like, I, I theoretically know how to play all those things, but, like, I can't physically... Like, I'm trying to learn guitar-

    8. SPSpeaker57:15

       Wow

    9. SPSpeaker57:15

       ... and it, like, hurts. [laughs] But, like, I do have a pretty big studio, and I love it. And, like, in fact, it was awesome. Like, my kid's band, my eight-year-old's band had, like, a practice rehearsal in the studio the other day. And it was, like, everybody, the parents that were there, like, all of our hearts just, like, melted.

    10. SPSpeaker57:30

        That's so good.

    11. SPSpeaker57:30

        But this, the studio has to support everything from, like, band practice to karaoke, which our family loves-

    12. SPSpeaker57:36

        Yeah

    13. SPSpeaker57:36

        ... to, like, professional tracking, professional mixing. Um, like, a, it has to go from pro to kid.

    14. SPSpeaker57:44

        So do you br- do you work with pro musicians on stuff you wrote?

    15. SPSpeaker57:47

        I have, and that's the plan. Not stuff that I wrote. No, no. Here's what I'd like to do. So if we can get into this whole, like, you know, I'm bullish on human happiness and-

    16. SPSpeaker57:55

        Yeah

    17. SPSpeaker57:55

        ... going forward in the AI world. And so it's like, what I get at... So I'm gonna... My, my plan, and what I've been doing, is letting profe- letting

20. 58:02 – 1:02:37

    Brian's music studio

    1. SPSpeaker58:02

       artists use the studio for free, 'cause I- I don't care about making money on the studio. So they get to use the studio for free. I'll even create a label for them where they own 100% of the IP and everything.

    2. SPSpeaker58:11

       That's cool.

    3. SPSpeaker58:12

       I don't... But the, the exchange is I get to be a fly on the wall. So, like, I get to be, like, part of the experience. They... So total, total win-win. They don't have to pay anything. They get to own all of their own-

    4. SPSpeaker58:22

       But you get to watch

    5. SPSpeaker58:22

       ... personal everything. But I get to watch. I get to feel like I'm part of it, and they... And i- in a way that feels real because, I mean, I'm at the studio with them-

    6. SPSpeaker58:29

       Yeah

    7. SPSpeaker58:29

       ... while they do it, and I-

    8. SPSpeaker58:30

       You get in there, you ask

    9. SPSpeaker58:31

       ... I've had this, like, ever since, like, you know, I dated somebody in high school, and she had a band, and, like, I remember the time that I got to go to the studio, and, like, but then it was like [sighs] it felt so cool. So that's what I'm trying to kinda, like, relive here.

    10. SPSpeaker58:42

        It's just amazing to me that you're doing it without being able to, like, play somewhat.

    11. SPSpeaker58:46

        Don't know how to play anything. But I can, like, you know, I-

    12. SPSpeaker58:47

        It's like you're Rick Rubin

    13. SPSpeaker58:49

        ... I know, I, I know enough about, like, production now-

    14. SPSpeaker58:52

        Yeah

    15. SPSpeaker58:52

        ... that I can get that done. I just can't... I think the, the physically playing stuff, man, I just haven't practiced enough.

    16. SPSpeaker58:58

        You, but you feel able to get to a good song?

    17. SPSpeaker59:02

        I mean, I'm trying to get better at doing that, but yeah, that's my goal. My goal is to, like, be, like, part of the process, so to maybe I can even, like, help in the ads.

    18. SPSpeaker59:08

        I mean, this is-

    19. SPSpeaker59:09

        I mean, I'm a huge music fan

    20. SPSpeaker59:10

        ... this is almost too on-the-nose to connect to being an investor, you know, who doesn't play the music, but just, you know, can get to the outcome.

    21. SPSpeaker59:17

        Well, it's, it's a similar kind of thing, man. Like, this is why I could never found a company, right? I'm not gonna be in a band. I can't found a company. But, like, yeah, I can enable that. I, I, I do. No, it is si- it actually is somewhat similar. I can't believe you...

    22. SPSpeaker59:28

        That's like the 10%, it's like the same thing.

    23. SPSpeaker59:29

        Like, the first thing you, like, mentioned. But it is somewhat similar. Like, I want to enable that band to do- be the best they possibly can while I get to be part of the experience.

    24. SPSpeaker59:37

        Yeah.

    25. SPSpeaker59:37

        I love the experience of it, and there's... Doesn't matter how good something i- AI better than you at something. It doesn't matter.

    26. SPSpeaker59:44

        Yeah.

    27. SPSpeaker59:45

        Like, exper- human experience is, like-

    28. SPSpeaker59:47

        I mean, it almost doesn't matter whether or not you think AI's gonna be better than people making music.

    29. SPSpeaker59:52

        It doesn't matter. Right. I don't care. The, I'm sure the AI is gonna be better at people making music.

    30. SPSpeaker59:54

        This is like I, you know, I sp-

Episode duration: 1:02:38