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The Chainsmokers: Stories Behind the Songs, AI’s Impact on Music, and Venture Investing | Ep. 30

Alex Pall is half of the Grammy Award-winning duo The Chainsmokers. Beyond music, Alex is entrepreneur and co-founder of Mantis VC, a venture firm that invests opportunistically in early stage tech-enabled startups. Some of their investments include Alchemy, Chainguard, Kalshi, Roblox, and Rogo. We had a wide ranging conversation that broke down the creative stories behind a few of their top hits including “Closer,” “Something Just Like This,” and “Don’t Let Me Down.” We also explored the creative process at the highest level and how Alex’s experience in music influences the way he approaches venture investing. Timestamps: (0:00) Intro (1:04) Stories behind the songs (4:58) Coldplay collaboration (9:57) Creating Closer (13:25) Dependencies vs creative fuel (18:09) Letting songs be promiscuous (19:45) How “Don’t Let Me Down” happened (22:57) Art vs playing the favorites (26:18) Balancing music and business (29:49) Albums telling stories (35:42) Tension behind growth as an artist (39:28) Inspiration drives creativity (41:20) AIs impact on music (44:34) Outlier talent (47:22) Building a venture firm (54:46) Experiencing elite circles (1:01:17) Importance of momentum More on Alex: https://www.mantisvc.com/ https://x.com/AlexPallNY More on Jack: https://www.altcap.com/ https://x.com/jaltma https://linktr.ee/uncappedpod Email: friends@uncappedpod.com

Alex PallguestJack Altmanhost
Oct 29, 20251h 5mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

The Chainsmokers on songwriting magic, AI tools, and venture mindset parallels

  1. Alex Pall (The Chainsmokers) breaks down the behind-the-scenes creation of major tracks like “Something Just Like This,” “Closer,” and “Don’t Let Me Down,” emphasizing non-linear processes, flow state, and the importance of protecting early-stage ideas from too many opinions.
  2. He describes how substances can both loosen inhibition and create unhealthy creative dependency, and why the duo increasingly values daytime focus, boundaries, and “maker schedule” protection.
  3. Pall argues that albums and artist context are essential for longevity even as TikTok and streaming push music toward decontextualized singles; he sees AI as both inevitable and useful, especially for keeping momentum during sessions.
  4. The conversation then shifts to Mantis (their venture firm), where Pall explains their collaborative investing posture, interest in technical domains, learning-by-proximity to elite founders, and how the repeated-failure nature of hits mirrors venture returns.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Great songs rarely follow a repeatable formula.

Pall says sessions don’t start the same way twice; you can optimize conditions (energy, intention, environment) but can’t reliably engineer the spark that makes a song work.

In-person collaboration can create ‘pressure + energy’ that unlocks the track.

“Something Just Like This” only crystallized after hours of false starts, Chris Martin leaving and returning, and the room’s accumulated urgency—leading to a rapid lyrical/melodic burst.

Flow state is fragile; protect it like a scarce resource.

They post rules on the studio door to prevent interruptions, echoing the maker-vs-manager schedule idea: a single distraction can derail an entire creative day.

Substances can be creative ‘fuel’ but risk becoming a crutch.

Alcohol/mushrooms may lower inhibitions (e.g., Drew singing scratch vocals on “Closer”), yet Pall warns of dependency—believing you can’t create without them.

Early feedback can ‘smooth out’ the magic—avoid making songs ‘promiscuous.’

Too many listeners and opinions before a song is finished can erode its distinct edges; they try to keep works-in-progress private until conviction is high.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

I don't think there's, like, a single song in existence that doesn't have, like, an insane story.

— Alex Pall

They're just sent down... from above... and then now... we're like, 'He was totally right.'

— Alex Pall

There's something changes when a song becomes, like, promiscuous.

— Alex Pall

Singles are like... without an album... hallways that lead to nowhere.

— Alex Pall

If you were in a nightclub and I was playing an AI-generated song... I don't think anyone would know.

— Alex Pall

Origin stories of “Something Just Like This,” “Closer,” “Don’t Let Me Down”In-room collaboration vs remote/email collaborationsSubstances: inhibition-lowering vs creative dependencyFlow state, maker schedule, and protecting creative focus“Promiscuous” songs and opinion dilutionSingles vs albums; context and artist longevity in the TikTok eraAI as a music tool and cultural shift; authenticity and attributionBalancing artist identity with audience expectationsOutlier talent, ADHD/autism as “superpowers” when channeledBuilding Mantis: thesis, value-add, cap table “Avengers,” learning from winnersElite circles, ego/status traps, and staying groundedMomentum as the meta-skill across music and investing

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