Bertie Gregory: Saving the Animals (Even the Ones That Are Bullies)

1. 0:00 – 3:56

   Mass Extinction, Saving the Planet, and Podcast Introduction

   1. BGBertie Gregory0:00

      [upbeat music] I- in, uh, in history there have been these mass extinction events, and we're now in one. The, when the rate of extinction goes up incredibly high, there's sort of this big purge. And I think with, with humans, um, we often talk about wanting to save the world when actually, in the long term-

   2. TNTrevor Noah0:22

      [laughs]

   3. BGBertie Gregory0:22

      ... world, the planet-

   4. TNTrevor Noah0:23

      World is fine

   5. BGBertie Gregory0:24

      ... it's gonna be just fine.

   6. TNTrevor Noah0:25

      Mm-hmm.

   7. BGBertie Gregory0:25

      It's just whether or not we-

   8. TNTrevor Noah0:27

      Yeah

   9. BGBertie Gregory0:27

      ... exist, or whether we exist on a place that's actually, you know, nice to be. We're not just sort of surviving.

   10. TNTrevor Noah0:33

       I, I, I think that's where the groups that do these things have done really well. They have sort of participated in making us think of it as save the world.

   11. BGBertie Gregory0:44

       Mm-hmm.

   12. TNTrevor Noah0:44

       Which then arrogantly puts us at the center of it again i- in the wrong way, you know? It's like, like-

   13. BGBertie Gregory0:49

       Yeah

   14. TNTrevor Noah0:49

       ... "Ugh, do you wanna save the world?" And it's like, "All right world, if you need me, I'll save you."

   15. BGBertie Gregory0:54

       [laughs]

   16. TNTrevor Noah0:55

       Then it's like, "No, no, no. No, no, no my friend. No."

   17. BGBertie Gregory0:58

       Yes.

   18. TNTrevor Noah0:58

       "Do you wanna be alive?" [upbeat music] This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. [upbeat music]

   19. BGBertie Gregory1:22

       Oh, man.

   20. TNTrevor Noah1:23

       [laughs] All right, so now I can ask you the question. So where, where are you coming from?

   21. BGBertie Gregory1:27

       Uh, Mexico.

   22. TNTrevor Noah1:28

       All right. What were you doing in Mexico?

   23. BGBertie Gregory1:31

       Uh, so I was filming for a n- a new project for, for Disney Plus, which that one is under NDA, so I, I won't be allowed to talk about-

   24. TNTrevor Noah1:36

       So you can't tell us-

   25. BGBertie Gregory1:37

       ... that one. No, that one's a secret.

   26. TNTrevor Noah1:39

       About cartels.

   27. BGBertie Gregory1:39

       Yeah.

   28. TNTrevor Noah1:39

       You have the most, like-

   29. BGBertie Gregory1:40

       [laughs]

   30. TNTrevor Noah1:40

       ... wholesome NDAs of anybody I know, by the way.
2. 3:56 – 7:17

   Bertie’s Background and Transportive Wildlife Films

   1. TNTrevor Noah3:56

      I w- I would, how would you, how would you-

   2. BGBertie Gregory3:58

      But the, but the best thing is it is our world, and I think that's the coolest thing, is that-

   3. TNTrevor Noah4:03

      Maybe that's why you make it so... How would you describe what you do? Like, uh, do you think of yourself an explorer, a documentarian? W- what would you say you, you do?

   4. BGBertie Gregory4:10

      I think my job is to get people excited about the natural world, and aware of some of the challenges it faces. And I think most importantly, understand that looking after wildlife isn't just something that's, like, a nice thing to do, 'cause, like, penguins are cute.

   5. TNTrevor Noah4:28

      Yeah.

   6. BGBertie Gregory4:29

      We need it for so many things we rely on, and if nature's not healthy, we're not healthy.

   7. TNTrevor Noah4:36

      Mm.

   8. BGBertie Gregory4:36

      Um, so it's, I guess trying to dispel the myth that, yeah, sort of, you know, looking after nature is at odds with enterprise and all the things that you and I speak.

   9. TNTrevor Noah4:43

      Oh, yeah. Yeah, the, the money side of things. So okay, do me a favor, actually. Play me any, like, an old video. Anything that you have.

   10. BGBertie Gregory4:50

       Okay.

   11. TNTrevor Noah4:50

       Just like, 'cause y-

   12. BGBertie Gregory4:52

       Well, let's, let's, we, we started with the whales.

   13. TNTrevor Noah4:54

       Yeah.

   14. BGBertie Gregory4:54

       Oh, let me find the whales.

   15. TNTrevor Noah4:55

       Okay.

   16. BGBertie Gregory4:55

       Yeah.

   17. TNTrevor Noah4:56

       So, like, you know how, like, like, the, the best video on your phone-

   18. BGBertie Gregory5:00

       Mm-hmm

   19. TNTrevor Noah5:00

       ... is probably...

   20. BGBertie Gregory5:01

       Yay, yay.

   21. TNTrevor Noah5:02

       [laughs]

   22. BGBertie Gregory5:02

       Yay, my man. He don't know my life. [laughs]

   23. TNTrevor Noah5:07

       [laughs] Two words.

   24. BGBertie Gregory5:10

       [laughs]

   25. TNTrevor Noah5:11

       [laughs]

   26. BGBertie Gregory5:11

       Okay. So-

   27. TNTrevor Noah5:11

       Tucked in. [laughs]

   28. BGBertie Gregory5:14

       [laughs] Dine Chloe Ka. [laughs]

   29. TNTrevor Noah5:18

       [laughs] All right, all right. So what is this?

   30. BGBertie Gregory5:21

       Animal reproductive systems. Ready, Trev.
3. 7:17 – 10:51

   Whale Carbon Capture and the Whale Pump Mechanism

   1. BGBertie Gregory7:17

      that's one way.

   2. TNTrevor Noah7:17

      I've never thought of where-

   3. EUEugene7:18

      Oh, yeah. That's right

   4. TNTrevor Noah7:19

      ... whales die.

   5. BGBertie Gregory7:19

      Right. It ... Yeah, they sink.

   6. TNTrevor Noah7:20

      They sink.

   7. BGBertie Gregory7:20

      Whale fall. So-

   8. TNTrevor Noah7:21

      No, but I never thought of ... I don't know why I never thought of, like, where-

   9. BGBertie Gregory7:25

      Where they go

   10. TNTrevor Noah7:25

       ... whales g-

   11. BGBertie Gregory7:26

       Yeah

   12. TNTrevor Noah7:26

       ... deep.

   13. EUEugene7:27

       You've probably never seen a full episode of My 600-lb Life, nuh? I'm so sorry. [laughs]

   14. BGBertie Gregory7:35

       No, you, you're good. What, should we just move on?

   15. EUEugene7:37

       I'm so-

   16. TNTrevor Noah7:38

       So-

   17. EUEugene7:38

       [laughs]

   18. BGBertie Gregory7:39

       But the second process, which is much more interesting, is, uh, this thing called the whale pump.

   19. TNTrevor Noah7:43

       Yes.

   20. BGBertie Gregory7:43

       Okay.

   21. EUEugene7:43

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   22. BGBertie Gregory7:44

       So let me-

   23. EUEugene7:44

       [laughs]

   24. BGBertie Gregory7:44

       Let me, let me try and break-

   25. EUEugene7:45

       Wait, but [laughs]

   26. BGBertie Gregory7:49

       [laughs]

   27. EUEugene7:51

       Wait. [laughs]

   28. TNTrevor Noah7:52

       Activate worst part of Eugene's brain.

   29. BGBertie Gregory7:54

       [laughs]

   30. EUEugene7:55

       [laughs]
4. 10:51 – 13:49

   Significance of Whale Comebacks and Historical Whaling

   1. TNTrevor Noah10:51

      encounter?

   2. BGBertie Gregory10:51

      Yeah. I think the key thing was that, you know, dur- during the whaling era, whales, as I said, were hunted to the brink of extinction. And I remember I visited this island in the South Atlantic called South Georgia, and that was sort of the epicenter for Southern Ocean whaling. So that was where a lot of the whaling ships were, were based.

   3. EUEugene11:09

      Mm.

   4. BGBertie Gregory11:09

      And that's where they brought a lot of the, the whales they hunted in Antarctica back-

   5. TNTrevor Noah11:12

      Yeah

   6. BGBertie Gregory11:12

      ... to, to process the blubber and, you know, all that stuff. And I remember reading the logs from the, the whalers when they were there. And-

   7. EUEugene11:20

      From the ships.

   8. BGBertie Gregory11:20

      Uh, yeah, exactly. Yeah. A- and they would talk about there being so many whales in these bays that they were hunting in that you could have walked across their backs, just, like, mind-boggling numbers of whales, and that got me thi- I, I found that really depressing in that, like, oh, I'll, like-

   9. EUEugene11:36

      You'll never see them

   10. BGBertie Gregory11:36

       ... that's all gone. Like, I'll never get to see that. But then however many decades on, you know, the world came together and protected whales in the '70s, and now, you know, what's that, 50, 60 years on from that ban, the whales are starting to make a comeback. And, and of course they're, they're not close, even close to what their original numbers were.

   11. TNTrevor Noah11:56

       Yeah.

   12. EUEugene11:56

       Yeah.

   13. BGBertie Gregory11:56

       But the idea that you can now go to Antarctica and see these, you know, biblically large gatherings of whales ... You know, I go around the world. I realize I'm, I'm, I'm super fortunate to see animals doing amazing things, but everywhere I go, the, the guide, the scientist, the local person, they always say, "What you've seen in this, on this expedition you've just done is amazing, but you should have seen how much more amazing it was 10-

   14. EUEugene12:19

       Mm

   15. BGBertie Gregory12:19

       ... 20, 30 years ago."

   16. TNTrevor Noah12:19

       Oh, that's sad.

   17. BGBertie Gregory12:20

       But in Antarctica with the whales-

   18. TNTrevor Noah12:22

       Yeah

   19. BGBertie Gregory12:23

       Seeing that gathering of 300 whales, like no one's seen that for over 100 years. Like, it hasn't been that good for more than 100 years.

   20. TNTrevor Noah12:31

       Mm.

   21. BGBertie Gregory12:31

       And isn't that so cool? Like, the world is so full of doom and gloom that w-

   22. TNTrevor Noah12:36

       There's optimism on the other side

   23. BGBertie Gregory12:36

       ... we ca- we can get it right.

   24. TNTrevor Noah12:37

       Yeah.

   25. BGBertie Gregory12:37

       Like, and when we do, wildlife comes back on this, like, mind-boggling scale, and not only is it cool to look at, but it helps us as humans.

   26. TNTrevor Noah12:44

       So wait, is that why whales turned into assholes?

   27. BGBertie Gregory12:49

       Break that down for me.

   28. TNTrevor Noah12:51

       So I mean, like, you know, we've been reading all these stories and seeing these things of, I think it's the orcas-

   29. BGBertie Gregory12:55

       Orca, the ki- killer whales off-

   30. TNTrevor Noah12:57

       Yeah
5. 13:49 – 16:37

   Killer Whales Attacking Boats: Myths and Theories

   1. TNTrevor Noah13:49

      world?

   2. BGBertie Gregory13:49

      Yeah, so there's a couple different theories. The first thing I'd say that it's not happening around the world. It's happening in one place.

   3. TNTrevor Noah13:53

      Okay.

   4. BGBertie Gregory13:54

      It's one, one pod. Um, I would say-

   5. TNTrevor Noah13:56

      Yeah? So it's a gang.

   6. BGBertie Gregory13:57

      Yeah, it's one. It's one family, yeah.

   7. TNTrevor Noah13:59

      Oh.

   8. BGBertie Gregory14:00

      [laughs]

   9. TNTrevor Noah14:01

      Okay. Boat killers. [laughs]

   10. BGBertie Gregory14:02

       So there's a couple different theories. The first thing to say is if you actually watch most of the videos-

   11. TNTrevor Noah14:07

       Yeah

   12. BGBertie Gregory14:07

       ... the, the, these killer whales are just swimming up to the boats and being very curious and sort of bumping them, and it's not attacking. They're just being curious. However, there are some that they're actually sinking the boats by, you know, head-butting them and-

   13. TNTrevor Noah14:20

       Yeah, yeah

   14. BGBertie Gregory14:21

       ... yeah. The, I mean, they are, I guess, attacking the boats.

   15. TNTrevor Noah14:23

       Now, do we know enough about the whales to know if, like, to your point, attacking a lot of... Could they be, like, playing a prank on us?

   16. BGBertie Gregory14:28

       Okay, so couple theories. One that is, is quite interesting is that, uh, the killer whales, they're, um, some of them hunt bluefin tuna.

   17. TNTrevor Noah14:35

       Yeah.

   18. BGBertie Gregory14:36

       And the tu- the, they have basically learned that when they hear, uh, certain boat noises-

   19. TNTrevor Noah14:42

       Vibrations

   20. BGBertie Gregory14:42

       ... the fishing boats-

   21. TNTrevor Noah14:43

       Yeah

   22. BGBertie Gregory14:43

       ... they're like, "Ooh, dinner bell."

   23. TNTrevor Noah14:44

       Yeah.

   24. BGBertie Gregory14:44

       "Why would I chase one of the fastest fish in the sea when some dude over there is just-

   25. TNTrevor Noah14:48

       Gonna do it for me

   26. BGBertie Gregory14:48

       ... caught a bunch on a hook and-

   27. TNTrevor Noah14:49

       No ways

   28. BGBertie Gregory14:50

       ... take out, you know, s- easy, easy meal. So they came over and, and the, the fishermen in the past, I, I'm sure it still goes on, shoot at them. And so it, you could see how the steps would, would create whereby, okay, you know, one gets shot by-

   29. TNTrevor Noah15:06

       Yeah, yeah, yeah

   30. BGBertie Gregory15:06

       ... you know, shot in the face.
6. 16:37 – 19:58

   Can Animals Be Assholes? Bear Attacks and Personalities

   1. TNTrevor Noah16:37

      was like-

   2. BGBertie Gregory16:37

      It never worked in The Revenant. [laughs]

   3. TNTrevor Noah16:39

      Yeah, then the bear was like, "Not cool, guys. Not cool." And then the bear started, like, mauling them, whatever. So the-

   4. BGBertie Gregory16:44

      Yeah

   5. TNTrevor Noah16:45

      ... th- th- they tell the story. So the, the husband was like, "All right, go," told the wife, like, "Run, run, run. I'll fight the bear."

   6. BGBertie Gregory16:51

      Yeah?

   7. TNTrevor Noah16:52

      And then, yeah. And then the, the wife ran, then the husband was like, "Rah, wah." Then you can't fight a bear.

   8. BGBertie Gregory16:56

      Obviously.

   9. TNTrevor Noah16:57

      You can just, like, distract, I guess, whatever.

   10. BGBertie Gregory16:59

       Entertain it.

   11. TNTrevor Noah17:00

       Rece-

   12. BGBertie Gregory17:00

       You can entertain it

   13. TNTrevor Noah17:01

       ... you can entertain it. Yeah.

   14. BGBertie Gregory17:02

       You can receive and entertain. [laughs]

   15. TNTrevor Noah17:03

       Yes. You can receive the punishment, and you can entertain the bear. And this happens. At some point, he's basically knocked unconscious. The bear stops and is like, "Wait, where did that lady go?"

   16. BGBertie Gregory17:17

       [laughs]

   17. TNTrevor Noah17:17

       Then the bear runs off, attacks the woman, mauls her, mauls her, mauls her. Then when she's also, like, sort of, like, passed out, then goes back to the guy, then, like, goes back and forth, and then luckily they survived. But, you know, like, the, the bear, like, mauled them. But I remember going like, "That bear might be an asshole."

   18. BGBertie Gregory17:34

       Okay.

   19. TNTrevor Noah17:34

       "Or was there something we missed?"

   20. BGBertie Gregory17:34

       Well, let's... No, let's break that one down. So when you see-

   21. TNTrevor Noah17:37

       Sure

   22. BGBertie Gregory17:37

       ... in the news an a- a wild animal has attacked-

   23. TNTrevor Noah17:41

       Yeah

   24. BGBertie Gregory17:41

       ... a human-

   25. TNTrevor Noah17:42

       Yeah

   26. BGBertie Gregory17:43

       ... the vast, vast majority of the time it is because the human has done something wrong. So they, you know, they have got in between a mother and its cubs.

   27. TNTrevor Noah17:55

       Mm.

   28. BGBertie Gregory17:55

       They have backed an animal into a corner. They have misread an animal's body language. They have done the wrong thing. So the first thing I'd say is it's very easy to kind of pin it on the animal and go, "Oh, the animal attacked the human."

   29. TNTrevor Noah18:04

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   30. BGBertie Gregory18:05

       Let's just clarify the, there are a, a very small number of cases whereby it was wrong place, wrong time-
7. 19:58 – 22:58

   Dolphin Social Behaviors and Anthropomorphizing Animals

   1. BGBertie Gregory19:58

      things.

   2. TNTrevor Noah19:58

      Because he goes off by himself most of the time, right, the male?

   3. BGBertie Gregory20:00

      Well, they also, the males have these bachelor herds.

   4. TNTrevor Noah20:02

      Really?

   5. BGBertie Gregory20:02

      And, and you're exactly right that, that, yeah, if you get these-

   6. TNTrevor Noah20:05

      [laughs]

   7. BGBertie Gregory20:05

      ... groups of young bulls-

   8. TNTrevor Noah20:06

      Yeah

   9. BGBertie Gregory20:06

      ... they're often the ones that are causing all the mischief-

   10. TNTrevor Noah20:08

       Look at- [laughs]

   11. BGBertie Gregory20:08

       ... you know, crop raiding and all sorts. You can see the cogs turning, can't you?

   12. TNTrevor Noah20:12

       [laughs]

   13. BGBertie Gregory20:13

       Desperately whirring for an innuendo.

   14. EUEugene20:15

       You said males by themselves in the bush. [laughs] You had me.

   15. TNTrevor Noah20:19

       You had ... [laughs]

   16. EUEugene20:20

       You had me at hello. [laughs]

   17. TNTrevor Noah20:22

       So what do they do with-

   18. BGBertie Gregory20:23

       But, but coming back to whether animals are assholes-

   19. TNTrevor Noah20:26

       Yeah

   20. BGBertie Gregory20:26

       ... I mean, a- again, this is a very anthropomorphic, uh, viewpoint.

   21. TNTrevor Noah20:29

       Mm.

   22. BGBertie Gregory20:29

       But, like, some, uh, you know, I've, I've seen male dolphins go around in these male groups-

   23. TNTrevor Noah20:37

       Yeah

   24. BGBertie Gregory20:37

       ... and they'll just go up to, like, a young male dolphin and do very naughty things to it. And you're like, "Was that really necessary?" But they've got this incredibly complex social system, and I think trying to compare ours ... If, if you look at their social system through our lens, it's very easy to go, "Well, you're being an asshole," but-

   25. TNTrevor Noah20:53

       I, I have often thought this. I've often thought to myself, like, you know, like, people will say things about dolphins. They'll be like, "Oh, dolphins sexually assault, and dolphins-

   26. BGBertie Gregory21:00

       Mm

   27. TNTrevor Noah21:00

       ... do all these things." That, that's what people will say.

   28. BGBertie Gregory21:03

       W-

   29. TNTrevor Noah21:03

       But then-

   30. BGBertie Gregory21:03

       Which people? No, that, I mean, they, I, yeah.
8. 22:58 – 25:36

   Reading Animal Body Language for Safe Filming

   1. BGBertie Gregory22:58

      in t- naturally interpreting-

   2. TNTrevor Noah22:59

      Okay

   3. BGBertie Gregory22:59

      ... wild wolf body language. But you know when we walk into a bar and we want to figure out w- like, where to sit?

   4. TNTrevor Noah23:05

      Mm-hmm.

   5. BGBertie Gregory23:05

      Uh, you look around and subconsciously you're analyzing everyone's-

   6. TNTrevor Noah23:08

      Yeah

   7. BGBertie Gregory23:08

      ... behavior.

   8. TNTrevor Noah23:09

      Mm-hmm.

   9. BGBertie Gregory23:09

      And you know if someone's, you know, bright red in the face and, and clenched fist or whatever-

   10. TNTrevor Noah23:13

       You wanna avoid them

   11. BGBertie Gregory23:13

       ... stay away from them. And then there's the smiley guy in the corner or whatever. I'm gonna go sit next to him. Sharks, uh, leopard seals, lions, they all have a set of, of, of body languages, you know, of cues, and it's our job to interpret those, those cues so that we can, uh, you know, film them s- so that we're safe and they're safe, uh, and also try and interpret what they're gonna do next. Uh, and that's what I love, is that I found when I was starting out, I was crawling around ... I, I grew up in Reading, uh, near London, and it wasn't a particularly wild place. I, uh, m- lived near some farmer's fields. I used to go into the farmer's fields and kind of try and sneak up on deer and badgers and kingfishers and whatever, and everyone thought I was weird. I was, like, you know, 13, 14 when you should be, I don't know, trying to talk to girls or something. Um, and I, I found that I, because I was starting to sort of by accident learn how to sneak up on these animals, I, I had my eyes opened to this incredible world, all these dramas going on the whole time that everyone just walks past and has no idea.

   12. TNTrevor Noah24:16

       Mm.

   13. BGBertie Gregory24:17

       So it's, you know ... It's, it's not as far as sort of Dr. Doolittle being able to talk to the animals, but you sort of have, like, this, this ability to interpret animal behavior that most people don't have, and so you get this secret window into a, this other world.

   14. TNTrevor Noah24:31

       So when you're out there- Would you say you have an ability to disappear into their world?

   15. EUEugene24:37

       Mm.

   16. TNTrevor Noah24:37

       Like, is, is there ... 'Cause I've always wondered this about nature documentaries is I'm like I've seen sometimes people just, like, lie in the same place forever. Sometimes you leave a camera behind. Sometimes you ... How real/untouched is a nature documentary when you're making it? How, how much influence are you having over it? How much ... You know, like, so, like, when the animal sees you or doesn't see you, or can you do something with your body language to, to let a lion know, like, "We're cool. I'm just here to film you killing stuff"?

   17. BGBertie Gregory25:05

       Uh, so what's really amazing about filming things like lions, sort of a, I guess a, a safari setup where you're in a vehicle, is that we benefit from the fact that, um, some very smart people have been habituating lions and wild dogs and cheetahs-

   18. TNTrevor Noah25:21

       Okay, yeah

   19. BGBertie Gregory25:21

       ... and all those savanna animals to a vehicle.

   20. EUEugene25:24

       Mm-hmm.

   21. BGBertie Gregory25:24

       And so-

   22. TNTrevor Noah25:25

       Oh

   23. BGBertie Gregory25:25

       ... they are completely aware that the vehicle's there. You know-

   24. EUEugene25:27

       Mm

   25. BGBertie Gregory25:27

       ... they, they can see it, they can smell it, they can hear it.

   26. EUEugene25:29

       Mm-hmm.

   27. BGBertie Gregory25:30

       But because it has been in their landscape for their entire life-

   28. TNTrevor Noah25:34

       Oh, wow

   29. BGBertie Gregory25:34

       ... and their mother's life and their grandmother's

9. 25:36 – 28:25

   Habituation and Underwater Filming Techniques

   1. BGBertie Gregory25:36

      life, you are just part of the landscape. So someone has done a bunch of hard work that we're then benefiting from. Often, we go to places where the animals are, you know, have never seen people before, and so a big part of the shoot is not filming, it's-

   2. TNTrevor Noah25:53

      Avoiding

   3. BGBertie Gregory25:53

      ... either hiding from the animal-

   4. TNTrevor Noah25:55

      Yeah, yeah, yeah

   5. BGBertie Gregory25:55

      ... but figuring out how to get close and, and hide, or habituating the animal to our, to our presence so that it knows we're there and is accepting of that. I mean, in the case of underwater filming, for example, it, y- you know, on land, often if you're hiding from the animal, you can be in a little tent and you can be a couple hundred meters away with a really powerful zoom lens.

   6. EUEugene26:14

      Mm-hmm.

   7. BGBertie Gregory26:14

      Underwater, you're limited by the visibility of the water.

   8. TNTrevor Noah26:17

      Oh, yeah.

   9. BGBertie Gregory26:17

      So if the water-

   10. TNTrevor Noah26:18

       Yeah

   11. BGBertie Gregory26:18

       ... you can only see 20 meters, well, you're not doing any hiding. Like, the animal's gonna know that you're there, so you need to figure out, "Okay, how do I behave so that the animal is relaxed with me?" I mean, one of my favorite animals to film is the leopard seal. They're these ... I mean, they look like dragons.

   12. TNTrevor Noah26:35

       Yeah.

   13. BGBertie Gregory26:35

       Uh, a- and they live in Antarctica, and they can be absolutely enormous, and they have a very similar skull to a grizzly bear, so they're just this amazing top predator. Uh, well, not top predator. A killer whale can eat them, 'cause killer whales are-

   14. TNTrevor Noah26:47

       'Cause killer whales kill.

   15. BGBertie Gregory26:48

       Yeah, they're badasses.

   16. EUEugene26:48

       We got this.

   17. BGBertie Gregory26:49

       So, um, yeah. So, so with them, I, I mentioned that all animals have, have personalities and they have different days. Uh, it's, it's sort of like a lucky dip when you get in the water with a leopard seal. You see this leopard seal and you're like, "Okay, I'm gonna get in, and very quickly I'm gonna learn whether this is a leopard seal that is friendly, is not pleased to see me." You know, y- you just never know, and you learn very quickly. And sometimes you get out immediately, 'cause you're, "Okay, that one didn't like me here."

   18. TNTrevor Noah27:19

       Yeah, yeah.

   19. BGBertie Gregory27:19

       And some start very shy, and then in the space of an hour you can sort of, kind of flirt with them and, and get, like, sort of pretend you're not interested in them. Sort of ... Th- they know where you're looking, so you kind of turn away.

   20. TNTrevor Noah27:30

       [laughs]

   21. BGBertie Gregory27:30

       Face your back, and they come sneak up on you, and then you go, "Boo!" Um-

   22. TNTrevor Noah27:33

       [laughs]

   23. BGBertie Gregory27:33

       A- a- and it- it's amazing that you can have this interaction with an animal that, you know, may never have seen a human-

   24. EUEugene27:40

       Mm

   25. BGBertie Gregory27:40

       ... being before, but you can read its body language, and even cooler, it can read yours. You're not just a, a weird alien human. It's like, "Oh, no, I ..." It knows where you're looking. It knows whether you're ... They, they often mirror your, your state.

   26. TNTrevor Noah27:54

       Emotions and

   27. BGBertie Gregory27:54

       So it's really important that you're really chill.

   28. TNTrevor Noah27:56

       Yeah.

   29. BGBertie Gregory27:56

       So they're really chill. If you get in the wa- I've been in the water, taken other people down there that, that have, you know, never seen a leopard seal before, um, and I take them in the water and they're really on edge. And I hate it, 'cause the leopard seal's really on edge.

   30. TNTrevor Noah28:08

       Oh, wow.
10. 28:25 – 31:26

    Leopard Seal Interactions and Comfort with Wild Animals

    1. EUEugene28:25

       That's a good word

    2. TNTrevor Noah28:25

       ... I've been a Sketchy Steve.

    3. BGBertie Gregory28:26

       [laughs]

    4. EUEugene28:26

       Yeah.

    5. BGBertie Gregory28:26

       You been?

    6. TNTrevor Noah28:27

       I've been a K- I'm still a Sketchy Steve.

    7. EUEugene28:29

       Thank you.

    8. BGBertie Gregory28:29

       Yeah.

    9. TNTrevor Noah28:29

       No, because, you know, I, I can't, I can't just find myself. So I'm, I'm always stuck in the loop. People will be like, "Just relax." Then I'm like, "I would be relaxed if there wasn't this wild animal here." Then they're like, "Yes, but you relax."

    10. EUEugene28:42

        Ah.

    11. TNTrevor Noah28:42

        And then the thing is, I then remember videos I've seen of people who were too relaxed and didn't notice a shift in something, and then all of a sudden life is not going well for them. Do you know what I mean?

    12. EUEugene28:53

        Yeah, yeah.

    13. TNTrevor Noah28:53

        So I, I, I don't know.

    14. EUEugene28:54

        Ah.

    15. TNTrevor Noah28:55

        Like, are you comfortable around animals, like, fully?

    16. EUEugene28:57

        Party animals.

    17. TNTrevor Noah29:00

        [laughs]

    18. EUEugene29:01

        A bit sketchy.

    19. BGBertie Gregory29:03

        [laughs] Never trust a party animal.

    20. EUEugene29:04

        Ne- never trust a party animal. But I've, I've always been fa- [laughs] I love animals, but from a distance. But I've always been fascinated by animals, um, that res- that come close to resembling human beings.

    21. TNTrevor Noah29:16

        Mm.

    22. EUEugene29:16

        So gorillas, chimpanzees. And I've often wondered, 'cause I've, I've once seen this video of chimpanzees hunting monkeys.

    23. BGBertie Gregory29:23

        Mm-hmm.

    24. EUEugene29:25

        That, for me, was the scariest thing ever. I've never ... Have you ever had an experience like that, of seeing those chim-

    25. BGBertie Gregory29:29

        I, I've, I've never seen that. Yeah, there's a, a very famous troop, um, uh, yeah. It's the, I think it's called the Ngogo troop. And yeah, there's ... Uh, I'm not sure how big it is now, but at a, at a time it was this enormous troop of chimpanzees. There was, like, 50 or 60 chimps living together. And yeah, they'd, they'd go and set very clever traps to eat colobus monkeys.

    26. EUEugene29:48

        Mm-hmm.

    27. TNTrevor Noah29:49

        Wait, wait, what?

    28. BGBertie Gregory29:50

        Mm-hmm.

    29. TNTrevor Noah29:50

        See, those are assholes. Surely they're assholes.

    30. BGBertie Gregory29:52

        Well, I mean, wh- why, why, why does e- eating monkeys make ... Why does that make them assholes?
11. 31:26 – 34:32

    Chimpanzee Hunting Strategies and Social Roles

    1. TNTrevor Noah31:26

       decisions based entirely on a vibe, just a feeling in their gut.

    2. EUEugene31:30

       That was me when joining the podcast.

    3. TNTrevor Noah31:31

       You know what I mean?

    4. EUEugene31:32

       Mm-hmm.

    5. TNTrevor Noah31:32

       But what if you actually knew the truth when you started a business? What if you knew your direct reports weren't just nodding along but actually had thoughts that they were too polite to tell you?

    6. EUEugene31:41

       Hmm.

    7. TNTrevor Noah31:41

       Or what if you knew that your best customers were already halfway out the door to a competitor? Because let's face it, we like to say follow your heart, but in business, ignorance is a very expensive hobby. The good news, Eugene, is that SurveyMonkey takes the fear out of asking and the doubt out of deciding. It's the difference between walking into a meeting with a hunch and walking in with 500 validated opinions, which mathematically is better for your blood pressure. The truth might hurt for a second, but it's cheaper than being wrong. So let's get you a survey and some actual answers. Sign up for an annual plan at surveymonkey.com/whatnow, and use the code WHATNOW for two months free. That's two months free with code WHATNOW at surveymonkey.com/whatnow. You have any questions?

    8. EUEugene32:26

       Is it too late for me to run a survey about who doesn't like you in the podcast?

    9. TNTrevor Noah32:30

       What do you mean who doesn't like y- you? Like, like me?

    10. EUEugene32:33

        Like you, yes, specifically the person in front of me.

    11. TNTrevor Noah32:35

        I think surveys are supposed to be anonymous so that people's feelings don't get hurt.

    12. EUEugene32:39

        But I did type anonymous there.

    13. TNTrevor Noah32:40

        Well, I mean, now I'll know that you typed it because... Do, do you have a problem with the working conditions?

    14. EUEugene32:44

        I haven't sent it.

    15. TNTrevor Noah32:45

        But you wanna make a survey about-

    16. EUEugene32:46

        I haven't sent it yet.

    17. TNTrevor Noah32:49

        You can just use the code WHATNOW to get two months free when you do it.

    18. EUEugene32:53

        Still have two months to complain about you.

    19. TNTrevor Noah32:55

        I feel like this got personal. [upbeat music] Do, do you, do you ever... [sighs] Do you ever find, like, human world just becomes, like, blah because of the world you live in?

    20. BGBertie Gregory33:16

        Oh, yeah.

    21. EUEugene33:16

        Absolutely.

    22. BGBertie Gregory33:17

        I, I have a, what I, I describe as po- post, post-shoot blues.

    23. TNTrevor Noah33:21

        Yeah.

    24. BGBertie Gregory33:22

        So I, I come home from, you know, a, a, Antarctica or whatever, and I always... I, it, it's usually the first couple days when I'm sort of readjusting to-

    25. EUEugene33:33

        Normal life

    26. BGBertie Gregory33:33

        ... a different, a different world. Well, I mean, for me, what I struggle with is my normal life is expeditions and being far away.

    27. EUEugene33:40

        Ah, yeah, it's being out there.

    28. TNTrevor Noah33:41

        Yeah.

    29. BGBertie Gregory33:41

        Um, a- and so yeah, I'll be, like, stood in a, in a supermarket deciding what-

    30. TNTrevor Noah33:45

        [laughs]
12. 34:32 – 37:14

    Post-Shoot Blues and Readjusting to Normal Life

    1. BGBertie Gregory34:32

       on every single shoot is humans.

    2. EUEugene34:36

       Hmm.

    3. TNTrevor Noah34:36

       Boo.

    4. BGBertie Gregory34:38

       Yeah. Every single time. The r- you know, it... The times that I have been, you know, i- in danger is because of a human that it's either directly from that human or the human has misinterpreted some animal body language-

    5. TNTrevor Noah34:50

       Yeah

    6. BGBertie Gregory34:50

       ... and, and has put us in a, in a dangerous situation.

    7. TNTrevor Noah34:53

       Wait, y- you... D- d- like, you've been attacked by humans on a shoot somewhere?

    8. BGBertie Gregory34:56

       Uh, that, that, that has... Yeah, that has, that has happened.

    9. TNTrevor Noah34:59

       Damn.

    10. BGBertie Gregory34:59

        Yeah. Yeah, that was quite scary.

    11. TNTrevor Noah35:01

        Wh- what, what happened?

    12. EUEugene35:02

        Hmm.

    13. BGBertie Gregory35:03

        Uh, we were in the Arctic, um, and, um, we were in a very remote camp. And one of the people we were working with, uh, we didn't realize was a drug addict, and um, not really sure what he was addicted to, but we were basically, uh, because of a storm, our supply boat was, was cut off. So every few days we were meant to be getting supplies with food and, and fuel and all kinds of things. What we didn't realize is that that boat was also delivering-

    14. TNTrevor Noah35:30

        Drugs

    15. BGBertie Gregory35:30

        ... his drugs. Um, and while he was on the drugs, he was actually pretty functional. Um, and he didn't get those drugs and started to, yeah, go pretty, pretty mad.

    16. TNTrevor Noah35:40

        Damn, that's scary.

    17. BGBertie Gregory35:41

        Uh, and-

    18. TNTrevor Noah35:42

        You... This is in the Antarctic.

    19. BGBertie Gregory35:44

        It was in the Arctic.

    20. TNTrevor Noah35:44

        In the Arctic.

    21. BGBertie Gregory35:45

        Yeah. Um-

    22. TNTrevor Noah35:46

        So you're like, you're... There's, there's nowhere to go. There's no...

    23. BGBertie Gregory35:49

        No.

    24. TNTrevor Noah35:49

        This, this seems like, you know, you know those movies... This, this seems like a perfect thriller horror movie-

    25. EUEugene35:55

        Hmm

    26. TNTrevor Noah35:55

        ... scenario, where you'd be like, it's unrealistic.

    27. EUEugene35:57

        Hmm.

    28. TNTrevor Noah35:58

        Explorers, the movie starts, they off to see the animals, you know, the whole thing, and then they're exploring, they're exploring the animals, and then they're like, "Oh, there's a storm. There's a storm. We're hunkered down. Oh, the boats are not coming in, Bertie. The boats are not co- We'll be fine. Oh, our supply's running low." And then all of a sudden someone's just like, "Ah."

    29. BGBertie Gregory36:13

        Yeah. And it, and it-

    30. TNTrevor Noah36:14

        Yeah
13. 37:14 – 41:37

    Dangerous Human Encounters in the Arctic

    1. BGBertie Gregory37:14

       we ended up managing to distract him, get her, uh, away. Um, he had a, uh, I won't, uh, won't name her. Um, get her away and, um, sort of separate the two of them, and then my job was basically to distract him long enough for the rest of the team to make a plan to get, find a way to get evacuated from this remote place. So I, we ... The reason we were out and away from the camp was we were trying to collect fresh water, so we need to go up the river. So I, yeah, we basically both went up this river into the, into the-

    2. TNTrevor Noah37:46

       Just the two of you?

    3. BGBertie Gregory37:47

       Uh, we were with ano- another guy as well.

    4. TNTrevor Noah37:49

       Yeah.

    5. BGBertie Gregory37:49

       And we, yeah, we were d- distracting him and sort of, yeah, trying to keep him occupied. And he would, what was r- most scary about this was he would flip-flop between, um, being this crazy, really scary person-

    6. TNTrevor Noah38:04

       Mm

    7. BGBertie Gregory38:04

       ... and then being absolutely lovely a- with not really any recollection of what had happened. It was sort of Jekyll and Hyde.

    8. TNTrevor Noah38:10

       Damn, that's terrifying.

    9. BGBertie Gregory38:11

       And, um, I remember we'd filled up the water jugs. You know, I'd managed to stall him for about an hour, and I was on the standup paddleboard that we were using to, to transport the water jugs. And he was walking on the, the riverbank next to me, and I was paddling along just like, "Yeah," trying to keep him calm. And I remote, he suddenly got really on edge and was rummaging around in his pockets. And I was like, "Oh, God, what's he got in his pocket? Is it a, you know, a gun, a knife?"

    10. TNTrevor Noah38:40

        Yeah, yeah.

    11. BGBertie Gregory38:40

        Like, what is it? He looked really on edge. All of a sudden he, he pulls out his phone and he's like, "Oh, I j- I just set up a, a TikTok account. I'm, I'm gonna take a video of you on the standup paddleboard, um, um, for my TikTok. Is that okay?" I was like, "This is a very strange situation to be in."

    12. TNTrevor Noah38:57

        Sketchy Steve. [laughs]

    13. BGBertie Gregory38:58

        Um, yeah, Sketchy Steve. Yeah. And, uh, by the time we got back to camp, um, yeah, the rest of the team had managed to make a plan that, uh, there was a, a research plane in the area.

    14. TNTrevor Noah39:09

        Yeah.

    15. BGBertie Gregory39:09

        And they were able to actually land on the, the beach that we were on. Um, and yeah, we, we got our, our team out, and we actually made the decision to take the, the guy with us because at the point that the plane arrived, he was in the good mood.

    16. TNTrevor Noah39:25

        So it was difficult to get him-

    17. BGBertie Gregory39:25

        And we were like, "We don't wanna leave him here-"

    18. TNTrevor Noah39:27

        Damn

    19. BGBertie Gregory39:27

        ... 'cause like, um-

    20. TNTrevor Noah39:29

        Did you guys warn the pilot at least? [laughs] 'Cause this is really like a movie.

    21. EUEugene39:33

        Yes. Yes.

    22. BGBertie Gregory39:34

        No, no, no, uh-

    23. TNTrevor Noah39:34

        'Cause now on the plane it's like, "Oh, man." Next thing you know it's Bane.

    24. BGBertie Gregory39:37

        Yeah. And then, and then, yeah, so we, he, we sort of chatted to him-

    25. TNTrevor Noah39:40

        [laughs]

    26. BGBertie Gregory39:40

        ... and then we got, got him, yeah, got him back to the town and, uh, yeah, and then went, went our separate ways and ...

    27. TNTrevor Noah39:45

        It make ... When you tell a story like that, it, it makes me wonder-

    28. BGBertie Gregory39:47

        Oof

    29. TNTrevor Noah39:47

        ... like, how, how did we ... You know, you, because you, you work in this world now, how did we get to the place where ... I think I'm, I'm, I'm safe in saying that more people in the world are terrified by animals than by, like, people.

    30. BGBertie Gregory40:03

        100%.
14. 41:37 – 44:45

    Myths About Animal Dangers: Wolves and Sharks

    1. BGBertie Gregory41:37

       okay-

    2. TNTrevor Noah41:38

       Who done it?

    3. BGBertie Gregory41:38

       ... why ... Well, who done it, yeah. But why, why do we have, why does our society have this incredible hatred? You know-

    4. TNTrevor Noah41:44

       Yeah

    5. BGBertie Gregory41:44

       ... Little Red Riding Hood, the big, wa- bad wolf. Why-

    6. TNTrevor Noah41:47

       Yes

    7. BGBertie Gregory41:47

       ... why as a ch- child are we taught that wolves are so dangerous when at the same time we keep their closest living relative in our homes?

    8. TNTrevor Noah41:53

       So I have a theory for this.

    9. BGBertie Gregory41:54

       Okay.

    10. TNTrevor Noah41:55

        But I, I don't know if it's right or it's wrong. When I, when I read through, like, old, uh, historical accounts of, like, explorers and travelers, people who are going around the world hunting, one of the things I've learned is whether they were colonizers or whether they were just, like, hunters, one of the most powerful tools they used to justify what they were doing was turning the, the subject of their action into-

    11. BGBertie Gregory42:23

        So like a villain

    12. TNTrevor Noah42:23

        ... like a dangerous villain.

    13. BGBertie Gregory42:24

        Yeah.

    14. TNTrevor Noah42:25

        You get what I'm saying?

    15. BGBertie Gregory42:25

        Mm-hmm.

    16. TNTrevor Noah42:26

        And so it's a lot easier, I think, to have people not judge you for killing wolves and, and, and you know what I mean, taking their, their furs, if you tell them that you're protecting them.

    17. BGBertie Gregory42:37

        You have, you have hit the nail on the head.

    18. TNTrevor Noah42:39

        Yeah.

    19. BGBertie Gregory42:40

        That is, that is exactly why our s- our, you know, society has this hatred towards wolves, because, you know, livestock farming is a, is a huge Part of our-

    20. TNTrevor Noah42:53

        Yeah

    21. BGBertie Gregory42:53

        ... society, and wolves do sometimes kill livestock.

    22. TNTrevor Noah42:56

        Oh.

    23. BGBertie Gregory42:57

        And it is much easier-

    24. TNTrevor Noah42:59

        Okay

    25. BGBertie Gregory42:59

        ... to justify the killing of a wolf if everyone hates them.

    26. TNTrevor Noah43:04

        Okay.

    27. BGBertie Gregory43:04

        Just like, you know, w- with, with sharks, it's only very recently that everyone's sort of waking up to the fact that sharks might actually be really important to healthy oceans, and we need healthy oceans.

    28. TNTrevor Noah43:15

        Yeah.

    29. BGBertie Gregory43:15

        But prior to that, you know, with, with Jaws and our, you know, fear of sharks, no one really cares that sharks were getting, getting killed.

    30. TNTrevor Noah43:22

        Yeah.
15. 44:45 – 47:54

    Beyond Cuteness: Ecosystem Services in Conservation

    1. BGBertie Gregory44:45

       them more resilient. They, they can then better protect us from, you know, the effects of, of climate change or, or, you know, w- whatever the, the thing may be. Um-

    2. TNTrevor Noah44:54

       Even, like, disease is what I've learned on some of these things. Like how-

    3. BGBertie Gregory44:58

       Okay, look at all of the, the big sort of pandemics-

    4. TNTrevor Noah45:02

       Yeah

    5. BGBertie Gregory45:02

       ... that have happened. Most of them come from the mistreatment of, uh, domestic animals or wild animals or it's us being very naughty.

    6. TNTrevor Noah45:12

       Yeah, but-

    7. BGBertie Gregory45:13

       And unsurprisingly, bad things happen when, when you're naughty.

    8. EUEugene45:16

       Because I love nature documentaries, I often, I often wonder to myself, aren't we getting in the way of evolution? Because sometimes you have those series where they show you the prehistoric relative of a certain creature.

    9. TNTrevor Noah45:26

       Yeah.

    10. EUEugene45:26

        But because conditions change, humans interfered, they invaded certain spaces, the animals evolved to something else. Aren't we right now standing in the way of evolution of certain creatures because we just wanna conserve the way they look now?

    11. BGBertie Gregory45:39

        Yeah.

    12. EUEugene45:39

        For our own selfish reasons, because we just like what this bird looks like now, but the dodo bird, you know, was something else, and it became something else, and it became something else because life and the climate and the conditions around it changed.

    13. TNTrevor Noah45:50

        Mm.

    14. BGBertie Gregory45:51

        Yeah. It's, it's an interesting perspective. I guess what I would say is that evolution happens on, uh, very slow time scales.

    15. TNTrevor Noah45:59

        Mm.

    16. BGBertie Gregory45:59

        And what is different about what we are doing now, we are, we are in, you know, i- in, uh, in history there have been these mass extinction events.

    17. TNTrevor Noah46:07

        Yeah.

    18. BGBertie Gregory46:07

        And we're now in one. The, when the rate of extinction goes up incredibly high, the sort of this big purge. And I think with, with humans, um, we often talk about wanting to save the world-

    19. TNTrevor Noah46:19

        Yeah

    20. BGBertie Gregory46:19

        ... when actually, in the long term, world, the planet-

    21. TNTrevor Noah46:22

        World is fine

    22. BGBertie Gregory46:23

        ... it's gonna be just fine.

    23. TNTrevor Noah46:24

        Mm.

    24. BGBertie Gregory46:24

        It's just whether or not we-

    25. TNTrevor Noah46:26

        Yeah

    26. BGBertie Gregory46:26

        ... exist, or whether we exist on a place that's actually, you know, nice to be. We're not just sort of surviving.

    27. TNTrevor Noah46:32

        I, I, I think that's where the groups that do these things have done really well. They have sort of participated in making us think of it as save the world.

    28. BGBertie Gregory46:43

        Mm-hmm.

    29. TNTrevor Noah46:43

        Which then arrogantly puts us at the center of it again i- in the wrong way. You know, and it's like, like-

    30. BGBertie Gregory46:48

        Yeah
16. 47:54 – 50:35

    Evolution, Mass Extinction, and Human Arrogance

    1. BGBertie Gregory47:54

       to get enough calories during that, that important time when they're on the ice-

    2. TNTrevor Noah47:58

       Uh-huh

    3. BGBertie Gregory47:59

       ... they need to go looking for stuff. And so, yes, they, they will come into contact with, you know, they'll, they'll, humans ... You know, they, they, they live in a very sort of inert, smell-less environment, and then you have a human settlement. Suddenly that's like, "Ooh, opportunity."

    4. TNTrevor Noah48:12

       Right, yeah.

    5. BGBertie Gregory48:12

       And then they'll come into that. So yeah, when, when, when we mess with wild systems, that's when you get more human-wildlife conflict.

    6. TNTrevor Noah48:19

       Mm.

    7. BGBertie Gregory48:19

       But I think, uh, kind of sort of taking one step back, you talk about, you know, s- s- sa- saving the world and that idea. I think one of the biggest communication failures in history is that we have l- you know, we've been led to believe that, um, you know, climate change is about, uh, i- it was just about temperature and, and carbon emissions.

    8. TNTrevor Noah48:44

       Yeah, yeah.

    9. BGBertie Gregory48:45

       These kind of abstract terms.

    10. TNTrevor Noah48:46

        Right, right.

    11. BGBertie Gregory48:46

        Right?

    12. EUEugene48:47

        Mm-hmm.

    13. BGBertie Gregory48:47

        So, so I can say, "Oh, 400 parts per million."

    14. EUEugene48:49

        Mm, mm.

    15. TNTrevor Noah48:49

        Mm, mm.

    16. BGBertie Gregory48:49

        Or, you know, the-

    17. TNTrevor Noah48:50

        Or three degrees

    18. BGBertie Gregory48:51

        ... it's gonna go by three degrees.

    19. TNTrevor Noah48:52

        Yeah.

    20. BGBertie Gregory48:53

        Oh, oh, okay. I, I sort of get it, but that's basically ... If, if you ask someone on, you know, on the street that isn't a climate scientist what's climate change about, they're gonna tell you probably about carbon dioxide and temperature.

    21. EUEugene49:04

        Yeah.

    22. BGBertie Gregory49:05

        But that's ... They're not actually the problems. They are, they are, you know, proxies for what the actual problem with- is, is that those two things when they go up lead to the destruction of nature.

    23. EUEugene49:18

        Yeah.

    24. BGBertie Gregory49:18

        So I feel like rather than talking about climate change and, and how we need to fight that, we should just be talking about the destruction of nature.

    25. EUEugene49:25

        Yeah.

    26. BGBertie Gregory49:26

        Because that, I feel, I feel like everyone can get on board with the fact that if you cut down a really big old tree, that is a bad thing. Um, a- and so if, if you also approach it in terms of, uh, the giant climate change, and it's such a massive problem and requires so much global cooperation in our, you know-

    27. EUEugene49:47

        Yeah, yeah, yeah

    28. BGBertie Gregory49:47

        ... broken, divided world, it's very easy to just throw your hands up and go, "Well-

    29. EUEugene49:51

        Nothing we can do

    30. BGBertie Gregory49:52

        ... what am I meant-
17. 50:35 – 53:38

    Climate Change as Nature Destruction and Actionable Steps

    1. BGBertie Gregory50:35

       And isn't that cool? You know, w-

    2. EUEugene50:37

       The fact that everyone can have an impact even on, like, the tiniest level.

    3. BGBertie Gregory50:39

       Exactly.

    4. EUEugene50:39

       Yeah.

    5. BGBertie Gregory50:39

       We talked about the, those CEOs. They're, they're, they're interested in, in ROIs. Well, there you go. Do a thing, gets better. You know, that's the problem with, with, um ... You know, yes, of course, we need to look at our individual, uh, carbon footprints or, or, or, you know, uh, changing our diets to, to, you know, uh, c- consume, uh, less or no meat or, you know, all, all these things you can do. It's very hard to quantify the impact of those, those things.

    6. EUEugene51:07

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    7. BGBertie Gregory51:07

       You know, if you choose not to fly tomorrow, well, the, the, you know, the global temperature isn't gonna come down-

    8. EUEugene51:13

       Right. Yeah

    9. BGBertie Gregory51:13

       ... because of your one action.

    10. EUEugene51:14

        Right.

    11. BGBertie Gregory51:14

        You should still think about doing it, whereas when it comes to rewilding the planet, like, you will see a quantifiable positive change. And it ... You know, people don't like being told to stop doing things.

    12. EUEugene51:26

        Yeah. Oh, that's true.

    13. BGBertie Gregory51:27

        But what about if you do a thing and then it makes a better th- you know, you know what I mean?

    14. EUEugene51:31

        Yeah.

    15. BGBertie Gregory51:31

        I, I just think it's a much more positive, proactive approach.

    16. EUEugene51:33

        It is, actually. It is a proactive approach. But h- here's where I'm often conflicted when it comes to conservationists and, um, nature documentary makers is, for example, you'd go to the Ngorongoro Crater, shoot a bunch of animals, right? Put that out on television. People all of a sudden are interested in going and seeing these animals. Now all of a sudden there's 50,000 Land Rovers there disturbing the exact-

    17. BGBertie Gregory51:55

        Oh

    18. EUEugene51:55

        ... same thing that you're trying to do.

    19. BGBertie Gregory51:56

        Damn. Yeah. Yeah.

    20. EUEugene51:57

        Right?

    21. BGBertie Gregory51:57

        It's a great, it's a great point.

    22. EUEugene51:58

        Yeah.

    23. BGBertie Gregory51:58

        So-

    24. EUEugene51:58

        Mm-hmm

    25. BGBertie Gregory51:58

        ... I, I'm really gla- glad you point this out, bring this up. So in, yeah, in my new show on Disney+, Cheetahs Up Close, we, we filmed cheetahs in the Serengeti. And-

    26. EUEugene52:08

        'Cause cheetahs are gonna be extinct, right?

    27. BGBertie Gregory52:10

        Cheetahs are-

    28. EUEugene52:11

        They're pretty much gone

    29. BGBertie Gregory52:11

        ... not doing well. Mm.

    30. EUEugene52:13

        Yeah.
18. 53:38 – 56:34

    Wildlife Tourism Challenges with Cheetahs

    1. BGBertie Gregory53:38

       uh, Islands, which is a group of islands off, uh-

    2. EUEugene53:39

       Portugal

    3. BGBertie Gregory53:40

       ... of Portugal.

    4. EUEugene53:40

       Yeah.

    5. BGBertie Gregory53:40

       Exactly. In, in the, in the Atlantic. And, uh, yeah, that community used to thrive on, on whaling. That was their big industry. And, uh, interviewed this amazing whaler called Daniel. Um, he'd spent his life whaling and, and spotting whales. Um, and yeah, him and the community realized actually people wanted to go see these whales, and they are worth more alive than dead.

    6. EUEugene54:04

       Hmm.

    7. BGBertie Gregory54:05

       Mm. Um, and so he now-

    8. EUEugene54:06

       So it's more sustainable

    9. BGBertie Gregory54:07

       ... well, he now spots the whales and instead of calling a, a whaling boat onto them to harpoon them, he calls in a boat full of tourists to go-

    10. EUEugene54:15

        Yeah

    11. BGBertie Gregory54:15

        ... in and take, take pictures. Now, of course, there is the potential for the, for that boat to be disturbing, but if managed correctly-

    12. EUEugene54:22

        Hmm

    13. BGBertie Gregory54:22

        ... it's, it's a much better thing. 'Cause I, I feel like in an ideal world, okay, maybe you could say that, well, we should protect these places and then, and then leave them alone and keep all the, all the people out, but, you know, conservation is as much about the animals as it is about the humans that live in that place. And those animals, sadly, in our, in our capitalist world have to have an economic value- Mm-hmm ... um, to ins-

    14. EUEugene54:45

        It's like everything in the world

    15. BGBertie Gregory54:46

        ... to incentivize-

    16. EUEugene54:47

        Yeah

    17. BGBertie Gregory54:47

        ... protecting them. So of course, there's the intrinsic value of looking after these animals. They're cute. They're wonderful. It's the right thing to do, but we need the, yeah, the extrinsic value, which is, which is the, the, yeah, the, the economic one, um, to, to make it, you know, ironically sustainable in, in the long term.

    18. EUEugene55:04

        It's the paradox of everything these days.

    19. BGBertie Gregory55:06

        Yeah.

    20. EUEugene55:06

        You, you, if you don't have an economic ... Like, have you seen how, um-

    21. TNTrevor Noah55:10

        I- if they try, like, a program, let's say in Scandinavia, I saw they ... You know, they were piloting a four-day work week and whatever. People in the US were like, "We'll never do that." In many places, they're like, "This is stupid." And then someone wrote a paper about the economic benefits of it, and then all of a sudden, companies were like, "Yeah, we're gonna try this. We're gonna, we're gonna try this." They're like, "Oh, you'll actually get more-

    22. EUEugene55:29

        Ah, soon as there was a financial incentive.

    23. TNTrevor Noah55:31

        But the ... And look, that is the world we live in now. You have to show the economic something. Traffic doesn't get dealt with until somebody shows a politician how much a s- a, a city is losing because of that traffic.

    24. BGBertie Gregory55:44

        Mm. But you can get very sad and cynical about it, but actually, it's like, well, let's just play the game by their rules.

    25. TNTrevor Noah55:49

        Yeah, yeah, exactly.

    26. BGBertie Gregory55:49

        And then, and then, and then we can all agree.

    27. TNTrevor Noah55:51

        Yeah. You just go-

    28. EUEugene55:52

        Yeah

    29. TNTrevor Noah55:52

        ... like, for every cheetah that dies, this is how much money you're losing in tourism. This is how much money you will lose in ... This is how much money you will lose. This is ... You know what I mean?

    30. BGBertie Gregory56:00

        Mm.
19. 56:34 – 59:39

    From Whaling to Sustainable Tourism in the Azores

    1. BGBertie Gregory56:34

       So it, this isn't just like, "Oh, I feel like this is a bad thing-

    2. EUEugene56:37

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

    3. BGBertie Gregory56:37

       ... when that cheetah family gets surrounded by cars." No, it's been proven, so therefore, it's really important that, that we, you know, do it correctly, and so that is, you know, it's on the guide. But I think also it's on us as people that go there and are guests in these places-

    4. EUEugene56:52

       Mm-hmm

    5. BGBertie Gregory56:52

       ... to ask questions because, you know, the, the guides ha- are under huge amounts of pressure there. You know, um, safaris for various reasons ha- have traditionally been, uh, incredibly expensive and, and so very exclusive, whereas now, m- you know, mass tourism, cheap tourism is becoming possible.

    6. EUEugene57:12

       Mm-hmm.

    7. BGBertie Gregory57:13

       And it means that, uh, you know, just to make the economics of the trip work if you're selling it for cheap, people will go on safari not for a week.

    8. EUEugene57:22

       Mm.

    9. BGBertie Gregory57:22

       They will go for one day.

    10. EUEugene57:23

        One day.

    11. TNTrevor Noah57:23

        Yeah.

    12. BGBertie Gregory57:24

        Now, the guide, he, he will get a really big tip if he manages to find, you know-

    13. EUEugene57:30

        Oh, geez

    14. BGBertie Gregory57:30

        ... all five of the best animals, right?

    15. EUEugene57:32

        Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    16. BGBertie Gregory57:32

        So he's just gotta rip around a- and the, and, and for some reason, now that we all have a phone and not a, you know, rather than bringing a, a, a normal camera, we now e- expect to get really close to everything to get a good picture of it.

    17. EUEugene57:46

        Oh, geez.

    18. BGBertie Gregory57:46

        So we, we saw ... We, we would follow these cheetahs, uh, fr- from a, from a distance, and then over the radio, you know, we were a filming car, and they knew what we were doing, so they always knew, "Ah, filming car. They're, they're good at finding the cheetahs." We had the-

    19. EUEugene57:59

        They'll follow you.

    20. TNTrevor Noah57:59

        Yeah

    21. BGBertie Gregory57:59

        ... you know, we had these amazing guides that would, you know, find stuff. All the vehicles would, would come to us, and we've created this horrible problem where now this cheetah family is, is surrounded by cars very close.

    22. EUEugene58:09

        And the cubs can't hear their mum's call.

    23. BGBertie Gregory58:11

        Oh, all, all that stuff. So we'd watch, and people would be ... They'd drive, rather than sitting, you know, 100 meters away, 50 meters away like we would with our really powerful technology-

    24. EUEugene58:21

        They would drive all the way up to them

    25. BGBertie Gregory58:22

        ... they would drive all the way up an-

    26. EUEugene58:23

        Ooh

    27. BGBertie Gregory58:23

        ... and so that the guide got a tip. They, they wanna be in a good position. They'd lean out and take a picture on their phone of the cheetah right there. And, and so actually, yes, you could blame that on the guide. Okay, it's his ... You know, he needs to sort of, uh-

    28. EUEugene58:35

        Feed his family.

    29. BGBertie Gregory58:36

        Well, yeah, but he, he needs to educate the tourists on, you know, da, da, da, da. But actually, I, I think it's equally as much our responsibility to go, "Hang on."

    30. TNTrevor Noah58:44

        I blame the phone companies. Why aren't they making better cameras that can zoom in more?
20. 59:39 – 1:02:55

    Managing Tourism Pressure and Respecting Wildlife

    1. EUEugene59:39

       [laughs] Those cameras work just fine. I've seen them being used at Beyoncé concerts. People are sitting way at the back at the nosebleeds, but they're able to zoom in and see her.

    2. TNTrevor Noah59:46

       Yeah, they do make it seem like they're in front of you.

    3. EUEugene59:47

       But all of a sudden, when there's a cheetah, you need to get closer and closer and closer.

    4. BGBertie Gregory59:51

       I think the other thing that seems to be a disconnect, I think, especially in our sort of ... You know, it, I think it used to be that when you watched, uh, you know, BBC Planet Earth documentaries-

    5. EUEugene1:00:02

       Yeah

    6. BGBertie Gregory1:00:02

       ... that was kind of the only sort of r- well, relatively, yeah, the only sort of huge, uh, amazing way to see a video of a whale, right?

    7. EUEugene1:00:13

       Yeah.

    8. TNTrevor Noah1:00:13

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    9. BGBertie Gregory1:00:13

       Whereas now, we're just, you know, you scroll through Instagram, you're just bombarded with everything.

    10. TNTrevor Noah1:00:17

        Yeah.

    11. BGBertie Gregory1:00:17

        So I think we sort of normalized it, and so now when, when lots of people do get to go to these amazing wild places, which I think is a great thing, um, for all the, you know, reasons we talked about, they sort of forget that actually this is a wild place.

    12. EUEugene1:00:29

        Yeah.

    13. BGBertie Gregory1:00:29

        And all these animals, it's, this isn't a zoo. It's not this abstract world that's in your phone. Like, it's a real thing, and actions that you take will decide whether or not this animal lives or dies.

    14. EUEugene1:00:41

        But what happens-

    15. BGBertie Gregory1:00:41

        Like, the stakes are that high, and I, I think it's-

    16. EUEugene1:00:43

        Yeah

    17. BGBertie Gregory1:00:43

        ... sort of reminding people to that, that, that y- y- you've gotta have this, this respect.

    18. EUEugene1:00:49

        I think it might, it actually might sound very trivial, but you are at Disney, and Disney has made a lot of cartoons. I think animating and giving animals personalities has sort of skewed the way people should look at animals and not try to find out what the animals' personalities are, like you're explaining.

    19. BGBertie Gregory1:01:06

        But, but I would argue in a way though that, that- That is sort of a, a traditional sort of documentary approach is look at the grandeur of this amazing-

    20. TNTrevor Noah1:01:15

        Yes

    21. BGBertie Gregory1:01:15

        ... place.

    22. TNTrevor Noah1:01:16

        Yes.

    23. BGBertie Gregory1:01:16

        And isn't it ... And, and whereas-

    24. TNTrevor Noah1:01:18

        Cartoons

    25. BGBertie Gregory1:01:19

        ... Well, or, or even now m- I, I guess more recent nature documentaries, we do try and personify the characters.

    26. TNTrevor Noah1:01:23

        Yeah, they're fully characters-

    27. BGBertie Gregory1:01:24

        And-

    28. TNTrevor Noah1:01:24

        ... now

    29. BGBertie Gregory1:01:25

        ... but, and, and I think it's probably gone too far. Um, but it is a way to sort of engage people and get people to fall in love, rather than just it being this, like, beautiful wallpaper.

    30. TNTrevor Noah1:01:34

        [upbeat music] We'll be right back after this short break. You know, Eugene-
21. 1:02:55 – 1:05:38

    Lessons from Animals: Mastery and Specialization

    1. TNTrevor Noah1:02:55

       ever steaks, plus seafood that must be sustainable, wild caught, or responsibly farmed. We'll then pair that dinner with a bottle of wine from the incredibly in-depth Whole Foods Market selection. Say cheers with a sparkling rosé or choose ready-to-drink cocktails. Mm-mm-mm. [laughs] [clears throat] Yeah. Must be 21 or older. Please drink responsibly. Taste the love all month at Whole Foods Market. By the way, that wasn't our date.

    2. EUEugene1:03:34

       Yeah.

    3. TNTrevor Noah1:03:34

       I just got carried away-

    4. EUEugene1:03:35

       Yeah

    5. TNTrevor Noah1:03:35

       ... and then your hand was there, and then ...

    6. EUEugene1:03:37

       I totally understand, but you know what? Like they say, there's no free dinners, clearly.

    7. TNTrevor Noah1:03:42

       No, you don't owe me anything, Eugene.

    8. EUEugene1:03:44

       [laughs]

    9. TNTrevor Noah1:03:44

       We, we, we didn't even have the dinner.

    10. EUEugene1:03:45

        I'm 41. [upbeat music]

    11. TNTrevor Noah1:03:54

        What do you think we could take from the animals? I often wonder this. Like that, like that dolphin bachelor crew that you were talking about.

    12. EUEugene1:03:59

        [laughs]

    13. BGBertie Gregory1:04:00

        I knew we were gonna circle back to that.

    14. TNTrevor Noah1:04:01

        Why do you choose bachelor instead of ... Good, that's what he said.

    15. EUEugene1:04:04

        Yeah.

    16. BGBertie Gregory1:04:04

        Yeah, that was-

    17. TNTrevor Noah1:04:05

        He said bachelor

    18. BGBertie Gregory1:04:05

        ... it's a technical term.

    19. EUEugene1:04:06

        Oh, okay.

    20. BGBertie Gregory1:04:06

        Yeah, bachelor.

    21. TNTrevor Noah1:04:06

        Don't try that with me.

    22. EUEugene1:04:08

        Hey.

    23. TNTrevor Noah1:04:08

        Hey, buddy. Hey, buddy.

    24. EUEugene1:04:09

        Hey. Hey.

    25. TNTrevor Noah1:04:10

        I already have a rep sheet with you. Don't add more things unnecessarily.

    26. EUEugene1:04:13

        Hey, hey, hey, hey. [laughs]

    27. TNTrevor Noah1:04:14

        No, like, like I, I remember seeing that and I, I, I, I found myself wondering, I was like, are there any things we could take from nature?

    28. BGBertie Gregory1:04:21

        Mm.

    29. TNTrevor Noah1:04:21

        Do you ever see things where you're like, "Oh yeah, this, this could probably work for us as humans. We sh- we should be doing this. This could be like a, a way of life. This could be a ..." You know what I mean?

    30. BGBertie Gregory1:04:30

        I, I don't know if this answers your question, but it's just popped into my mind that wild animals' lives are really, really hard.
22. 1:05:38 – 1:09:15

    Puma Hunting: Hard Lives and Survival Stakes

    1. TNTrevor Noah1:05:38

       pho- like, camera roll of any human being I know.

    2. EUEugene1:05:40

       You can get any girl.

    3. TNTrevor Noah1:05:41

       Like, just any-

    4. EUEugene1:05:43

       Mm.

    5. TNTrevor Noah1:05:43

       You, there's no one-

    6. EUEugene1:05:44

       Let me see what ... Yeah.

    7. BGBertie Gregory1:05:45

       Okay. So this is a female, uh, puma, mountain lion-

    8. EUEugene1:05:49

       Yeah

    9. BGBertie Gregory1:05:49

       ... or pu- puma. Uh, and she is hunting a, a guanaco.

    10. EUEugene1:05:52

        Oh, my God.

    11. BGBertie Gregory1:05:52

        Okay? Which is like a wild llama. [tense music] She is so close. She's gotta be within 30 meters now. I think she's gonna go. Yeah, here she goes. She's going. [hooves thudding]

    12. TNTrevor Noah1:06:18

        Who are you cheering for?

    13. BGBertie Gregory1:06:19

        She's got it.

    14. TNTrevor Noah1:06:20

        The llama?

    15. BGBertie Gregory1:06:21

        No, the mountain lion.

    16. TNTrevor Noah1:06:22

        Really?

    17. BGBertie Gregory1:06:23

        Yeah. No. Go, Pataka, go. Oh, my God, what a fight. She's got it. She's got it. The guanaco's still fighting. It's trying to fuck her up. So my point is, animals-

    18. TNTrevor Noah1:07:01

        Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa

    19. BGBertie Gregory1:07:01

        ... have really hard lives.

    20. TNTrevor Noah1:07:02

        Whoa, but you can't just go and say, "My point is," after that.

    21. EUEugene1:07:05

        I know. [laughs]

    22. TNTrevor Noah1:07:06

        There's so many thoughts I had after that video.

    23. EUEugene1:07:08

        We do-

    24. TNTrevor Noah1:07:08

        Eugene will ask his questions, and then I'm gonna ask my questions.

    25. BGBertie Gregory1:07:12

        Okay, break it down

    26. TNTrevor Noah1:07:13

        First of all, m- mine's not really a, a, it's a question-

    27. BGBertie Gregory1:07:16

        Mm

    28. TNTrevor Noah1:07:16

        ... for society really.

    29. BGBertie Gregory1:07:17

        Mm-hmm.

    30. TNTrevor Noah1:07:18

        Why don't we make that the experience when we're getting, like, takeout? You know what I'm saying?
23. 1:09:15 – 1:12:17

    Choosing Sides in Nature and Building Empathy

    1. BGBertie Gregory1:09:15

       a tough one because, you know, uh, as, as-

    2. TNTrevor Noah1:09:17

       We're talking about the kids

    3. BGBertie Gregory1:09:17

       ... a wildlife camera person-

    4. TNTrevor Noah1:09:18

       Mm

    5. BGBertie Gregory1:09:18

       ... we are, you know, we, w- we can, you know, never get involved. A- and so, you know, it's important to not, to try to... We're, we're, I guess-

    6. TNTrevor Noah1:09:28

       Bertie

    7. BGBertie Gregory1:09:28

       ... we're normally told to not-

    8. TNTrevor Noah1:09:29

       Bertie

    9. BGBertie Gregory1:09:30

       ... get emotionally attached.

    10. TNTrevor Noah1:09:30

        You was really involved. You were screaming, "Go, Pataka."

    11. BGBertie Gregory1:09:33

        I was. [laughs]

    12. TNTrevor Noah1:09:34

        "Pataka."

    13. BGBertie Gregory1:09:34

        "Pataka, choking."

    14. TNTrevor Noah1:09:35

        But I... [laughs]

    15. BGBertie Gregory1:09:36

        [laughs]

    16. TNTrevor Noah1:09:36

        No, but I... What, what I mean by em- yeah, I was very-

    17. BGBertie Gregory1:09:38

        "Kill it, Pataka."

    18. TNTrevor Noah1:09:39

        I was very emotionally involved, yeah.

    19. BGBertie Gregory1:09:40

        "Kill him dead, Pataka."

    20. TNTrevor Noah1:09:41

        "Guanacos' lives don't matter." [laughs]

    21. BGBertie Gregory1:09:45

        [laughs] But you're like, "Oh, man, guanaco."

    22. TNTrevor Noah1:09:47

        [laughs]

    23. BGBertie Gregory1:09:47

        "I'm just shaking. Pataka, kill him." [laughs]

    24. TNTrevor Noah1:09:49

        [laughs]

    25. BGBertie Gregory1:09:50

        Oh, no, sticking a leg out, trying to trip it up. [laughs]

    26. TNTrevor Noah1:09:53

        [laughs] You sounded like Joe Rogan at a, at a UFC. "Oh."

    27. BGBertie Gregory1:09:57

        Oh, my God.

    28. TNTrevor Noah1:09:57

        "Oh, get him. Kill him." [laughs]

    29. BGBertie Gregory1:09:59

        So what I was going to say if I was allowed to finish was we are normally told to not get emotionally attached.

    30. TNTrevor Noah1:10:07

        Yes.
24. 1:12:17 – 1:15:56

    Threats from Farming and Fish Farming Realities

    1. BGBertie Gregory1:12:17

       that they are not these sort of mindless, man-eating killers.

    2. TNTrevor Noah1:12:20

       Yeah. Oh, yeah.

    3. BGBertie Gregory1:12:20

       They have these amazing social systems.

    4. TNTrevor Noah1:12:22

       Yes.

    5. BGBertie Gregory1:12:23

       And they are so stoked to be alive and in a pack, and they, they-

    6. TNTrevor Noah1:12:28

       They love community

    7. BGBertie Gregory1:12:28

       ... they love it. Oh, my God, they love each other so much.

    8. TNTrevor Noah1:12:31

       Yeah.

    9. BGBertie Gregory1:12:31

       It is so lovely. You know when, like-

    10. TNTrevor Noah1:12:33

        They show affection

    11. BGBertie Gregory1:12:33

        ... if you have a dog and, and you come home-

    12. TNTrevor Noah1:12:35

        Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

    13. BGBertie Gregory1:12:35

        ... and the dog... They do that, but there's, like, 10 of them, and there's no humans, and they're just having a great party with each other and sniffing each other and having an awesome time.

    14. TNTrevor Noah1:12:45

        That's pickleball.

    15. BGBertie Gregory1:12:45

        That's pickleball.

    16. TNTrevor Noah1:12:46

        [laughs]

    17. BGBertie Gregory1:12:46

        Yeah. That's it.

    18. TNTrevor Noah1:12:47

        Is it, is it true that, um, is it true that one of the greatest threats to these wild systems is how we expanding farming?

    19. BGBertie Gregory1:12:55

        Uh, I mean, in the case of wolves, yeah. I mean, conflict with livestock, but-

    20. TNTrevor Noah1:12:59

        Yeah

    21. BGBertie Gregory1:12:59

        ... but I guess it comes back to that empathy of if we just, if we don't, if, if we don't spend time with them, documenting their lives, showing how amazing and, and awesome that they are, it's, uh, but they're, they're just, they're, they're not individuals. They're just wolves in a faraway place.

    22. TNTrevor Noah1:13:15

        Yeah, yeah.

    23. BGBertie Gregory1:13:16

        It's very easy for someone to go along and be shooting them and going, "Ah, terrible, evil wolves."

    24. TNTrevor Noah1:13:20

        Yeah.

    25. BGBertie Gregory1:13:20

        It's, again, it's that

    26. EUEugene1:13:22

        It's a double-edged sword, right?

    27. BGBertie Gregory1:13:23

        You need, you need that, that, that view into their world.

    28. EUEugene1:13:26

        Yeah.

    29. TNTrevor Noah1:13:26

        So what were your questions about the video?

    30. EUEugene1:13:28

        [laughs] [sighs] That video. [clears throat] That video was heartbreaking.
25. 1:15:56 – 1:19:10

    Debunking Fish Farming Sustainability

    1. EUEugene1:15:56

       So what they've-

    2. BGBertie Gregory1:15:56

       Every time he says the word sturgeon from now, we're gonna do an applause for sturgeon.

    3. EUEugene1:16:01

       [laughs]

    4. TNTrevor Noah1:16:01

       [laughs]

    5. EUEugene1:16:01

       So what they've realized is sturgeon was almost ex- [laughs]

    6. TNTrevor Noah1:16:05

       [laughs]

    7. EUEugene1:16:06

       Don't do that. Was al- [laughs] was almost extinct because obviously they were being, uh, killed for their eggs, but it actually takes very long for a sturgeon to reach full maturity, so it can bear eggs.

    8. TNTrevor Noah1:16:17

       Oh, so it can bear the eggs.

    9. EUEugene1:16:18

       Yeah, so they were getting extinct, so, uh, in the EU, they said, "No more st- wild sturgeon." So most of the caviar that you see now comes from farmed.

    10. BGBertie Gregory1:16:26

        Oh, as in fish farming.

    11. EUEugene1:16:28

        Fish farming, yes.

    12. BGBertie Gregory1:16:29

        Right.

    13. EUEugene1:16:30

        So it's done a lot obviously for, for nature conservation. They do it with lobster.

    14. BGBertie Gregory1:16:34

        Yeah.

    15. TNTrevor Noah1:16:34

        Does that count as nature conservation, though?

    16. BGBertie Gregory1:16:35

        Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's back it up.

    17. EUEugene1:16:36

        Why not?

    18. BGBertie Gregory1:16:37

        Uh, well, I would say that, uh, I, I don't know specifically-

    19. EUEugene1:16:42

        Yeah

    20. BGBertie Gregory1:16:42

        ... a huge amount about the particular example with sturgeon, but if you look at other systems, uh, for example, farmed salmon-

    21. EUEugene1:16:51

        Mm

    22. BGBertie Gregory1:16:51

        ... or, or even, uh, tuna-

    23. EUEugene1:16:53

        Yeah

    24. BGBertie Gregory1:16:54

        ... um, which is, which is ranched, um, it's often used as a way to say, "Oh, this is much more sustainable because we're, we're not affecting wild stocks."

    25. EUEugene1:17:03

        Mm-hmm.

    26. BGBertie Gregory1:17:03

        "We're raising them in captivity." But actually, the reality is that it's complete and utter BS.

    27. EUEugene1:17:08

        Why?

    28. BGBertie Gregory1:17:09

        Um, okay. You take tuna, for example.

    29. EUEugene1:17:13

        Mm-hmm.

    30. BGBertie Gregory1:17:13

        So, um, bluefin tuna, uh, previously, uh, let's take the Mediterranean for example. They would go on this, uh, they go on this crazy migration, uh, in the Atlantic, and then they, some of them come into the Mediterranean Sea to, to, to breed.
26. 1:19:10 – 1:22:28

    Conservation Success Stories: Raja Ampat Recovery

    1. BGBertie Gregory1:19:10

       had-

    2. EUEugene1:19:10

       Oh my God

    3. BGBertie Gregory1:19:10

       ... 24 nets. That means they are feeding that farm up to 240 tons of prey fish per day.

    4. EUEugene1:19:17

       That has to come from somewhere.

    5. BGBertie Gregory1:19:19

       Where does that come from? It comes from anywhere in the ocean round the world. So once a week, this enormous ship would turn up with-

    6. EUEugene1:19:29

       Mm

    7. BGBertie Gregory1:19:29

       ... herring from Norway, uh, anchovies from the coast of Chile, uh, sardines from the coast of South Africa.

    8. EUEugene1:19:36

       Mm-hmm.

    9. BGBertie Gregory1:19:36

       Wherever it was cheap.

    10. EUEugene1:19:38

        Mm-hmm.

    11. BGBertie Gregory1:19:38

        And these fish Would get caught into these nets. We w- we were catching fish to feed fish

    12. TNTrevor Noah1:19:48

        This sort of like- You know, the worst thing about-

    13. BGBertie Gregory1:19:50

        So we're just hoovering up the-

    14. TNTrevor Noah1:19:51

        Yeah Yeah

    15. BGBertie Gregory1:19:52

        ... this, this-

    16. TNTrevor Noah1:19:53

        Oh, my God

    17. BGBertie Gregory1:19:53

        ... this is the dark, dark-

    18. TNTrevor Noah1:19:54

        You made it make sense The worst thing about learning- Mm-hmm ... is that it can make you very depressed. Yeah, 100%. No, genuinely. Mm-hmm. Because I think there's a lot of people out there, myself included, who would go like, "Oh, this is much better." Yeah. Because it, it, you know, you're farming it and now ... and then now you're telling me, "Oh, yeah, the second system effect of doing this- Mm ... has far more detrimental effects on the food supply and on the ecosystem than we thought previously." So then, so then, okay, then what, what do we do? I, I mean, that, that is part of the reason I've always liked your work as well, is every time I've seen you, every time I've watched your videos, you'll always offer a solution. Mm. You'll always ... Y- You don't just go like, "Man, that's all, folks. It sucks."

    19. BGBertie Gregory1:20:36

        [laughs]

    20. TNTrevor Noah1:20:36

        You know?

    21. BGBertie Gregory1:20:36

        Right.

    22. TNTrevor Noah1:20:37

        What, what, what are some-

    23. BGBertie Gregory1:20:37

        Because there's enough depressing stuff in the world.

    24. TNTrevor Noah1:20:39

        Yeah, yeah. What are some of the success stories that you've come across or you've been a part of where you go, "Oh, look, this is, this is, like, an, an achievable difference we can make. It's not big. It's not monumental. It's not, like, shutting down industries. It's not..." What, what is, what are some of the-

    25. BGBertie Gregory1:20:53

        Totally. Well, I mean, a, a really, uh, staying with the, you know, theme of the ocean, the really amazing thing about the ocean is that if you give it the chance, it, it comes back on an unbelievable scale.

    26. TNTrevor Noah1:21:05

        Mm.

    27. BGBertie Gregory1:21:05

        The, the speed. So, a, a really awesome conservation success story, uh, there's a place called Raja Ampat, uh, in Indonesia. It's this amazing ar- archipelago. It looks like something out of a storybook. It's all these little islands covered in-

    28. TNTrevor Noah1:21:17

        Yeah

    29. BGBertie Gregory1:21:17

        ... green jungle, and around those islands underwater is some of the most amazing coral reef. But in many-

    30. TNTrevor Noah1:21:24

        Wow
27. 1:22:28 – 1:25:39

    Short-Term Sacrifices for Long-Term Environmental Gains

    1. BGBertie Gregory1:22:28

       Some of them became dive guides. And, uh, 20 years on, um, uh, they h- you know, they've made this ... This place has made an, uh, an extraordinary comeback. And in that time, the biomass, so that's the weight of living things, at some of the, the key locations, it's gone up by 600%.

    2. TNTrevor Noah1:22:46

       Oh.

    3. BGBertie Gregory1:22:46

       And it's one of the only places on Earth where the biodiversity, so it's the number of different species-

    4. TNTrevor Noah1:22:50

       Mm-hmm

    5. BGBertie Gregory1:22:50

       ... is actually increasing. And, and they're also replanting the, the coral reef. And, and so the coolest thing about that is that, okay, nature's thriving. Humans are directly thriving because, you know, they're being paid to be rangers and dive guides and all that stuff. But the best part is that the marine life doesn't understand the borders that we draw.

    6. TNTrevor Noah1:23:14

       Yeah. Mm.

    7. BGBertie Gregory1:23:15

       So it-

    8. TNTrevor Noah1:23:15

       Yeah

    9. BGBertie Gregory1:23:15

       ... moves outside of those protected areas into the take zone, and so the local fishing community-

    10. TNTrevor Noah1:23:22

        Actually gets more fish

    11. BGBertie Gregory1:23:23

        ... is actually doing really well.

    12. TNTrevor Noah1:23:24

        Yeah. It- Oh, gee ... it's, I mean, it's, it's so trivial to say.

    13. BGBertie Gregory1:23:29

        Mm-hmm.

    14. TNTrevor Noah1:23:30

        But it really is ... It really feels like everything you say is just us not having a wide enough aperture to actually understand time-

    15. BGBertie Gregory1:23:41

        Well, often you ha-

    16. TNTrevor Noah1:23:42

        ... and the benefits of things, you know

    17. BGBertie Gregory1:23:43

        ... you have to make a small short-term sacrifice-

    18. TNTrevor Noah1:23:46

        Yes

    19. BGBertie Gregory1:23:47

        ... for a long-term massive gain.

    20. TNTrevor Noah1:23:50

        Yeah.

    21. BGBertie Gregory1:23:50

        Not just economic, you know?

    22. TNTrevor Noah1:23:52

        Yeah.

    23. BGBertie Gregory1:23:52

        Mm.

    24. TNTrevor Noah1:23:53

        It's, it's all become extractive now. That's, that's the issue is, like, y- we live in a world where companies want to extract as much as possible from everyone all the time-

    25. BGBertie Gregory1:24:02

        Mm

    26. TNTrevor Noah1:24:02

        ... as much as possible.

    27. BGBertie Gregory1:24:03

        And now, now, now, now, now.

    28. TNTrevor Noah1:24:05

        And so growth has no longer been something ... And, and you see, you see that it's, it's, it's not one way or the other, by the way.

    29. BGBertie Gregory1:24:12

        Mm.

    30. TNTrevor Noah1:24:12

        There are many companies out there, especially, like, companies that haven't gone public, where they, they make a shit ton of money, and the product is still good, and the customer is still served, and they, and they treat their custom- their, um, workers well because they get to define their own growth.
28. 1:25:39 – 1:28:40

    Positive Outlook, Current Projects, and Animal Recognition

    1. TNTrevor Noah1:25:40

       You know, it's j- it's just like one thing that tips, and then all of a sudden-

    2. BGBertie Gregory1:25:43

       It unravels

    3. TNTrevor Noah1:25:44

       ... yeah, it just unravels. It's like, "Oh, y- you lost this much forest," or at a certain time, this changed in the atmosphere, and then all of a sudden all the trees died, and then that caused a thing, and this caused ... But it's just like, it's just a tipping point.

    4. BGBertie Gregory1:25:58

       Mm.

    5. TNTrevor Noah1:25:59

       And then the world has to go to sleep-

    6. BGBertie Gregory1:26:01

       But-

    7. TNTrevor Noah1:26:01

       ... for a few hundred years or thousand years.

    8. BGBertie Gregory1:26:02

       Th-

    9. TNTrevor Noah1:26:03

       And then-

    10. BGBertie Gregory1:26:03

        This got very dark and, and depressing. And so what I would say is that, uh, yes, we obviously have big challenges, but there are so many good news conservation success stories.

    11. TNTrevor Noah1:26:17

        Now you're gonna see why I love Bertie.

    12. BGBertie Gregory1:26:18

        There are so many. And-

    13. EUEugene1:26:19

        About to happen

    14. BGBertie Gregory1:26:20

        ... not, not to say that you, we should, you know, bury our heads in the sand and ignore the rest of the world-

    15. TNTrevor Noah1:26:24

        No, no, no, no, no, no

    16. BGBertie Gregory1:26:24

        ... and go, "La, la, la, la, la."

    17. TNTrevor Noah1:26:25

        No.

    18. BGBertie Gregory1:26:25

        But if we focus on when we've got it right-

    19. TNTrevor Noah1:26:27

        Yeah

    20. BGBertie Gregory1:26:28

        ... rather than going, "Naughty, naughty, this is what you did wrong-"

    21. TNTrevor Noah1:26:30

        Mm-hmm

    22. BGBertie Gregory1:26:31

        ... I feel like it's, yeah, w- it comes back to that thing of, uh, yeah, if you're told not to do something-

    23. EUEugene1:26:36

        You will do it.

    24. TNTrevor Noah1:26:37

        Yeah

    25. BGBertie Gregory1:26:37

        ... you're gonna do it.

    26. TNTrevor Noah1:26:38

        Right.

    27. BGBertie Gregory1:26:38

        Whereas if you're told, "Well, well, you can do-"

    28. TNTrevor Noah1:26:40

        What you can do

    29. BGBertie Gregory1:26:41

        ... I- inspire and celebrate the wins.

    30. TNTrevor Noah1:26:42

        So what's the thing-
29. 1:28:40 – 1:31:47

    Manta Ray Encounters and Coexisting with Nature

    1. TNTrevor Noah1:28:40

       do. Uh, here's, here's what ... And maybe it's the types of animals. Don't get me wrong. I'm not expecting a crocodile to be your friend. But I do think like an elephant, maybe a whale, I'm willing to ... We'll, we'll, we'll have this conversation-

    2. EUEugene1:28:50

       Why not a crocodile?

    3. BGBertie Gregory1:28:51

       Okay. Uh, um-

    4. TNTrevor Noah1:28:51

       I don't think crocodiles roll like that.

    5. BGBertie Gregory1:28:52

       Uh, I, I recently was on-

    6. TNTrevor Noah1:28:54

       Why? I just don't

    7. BGBertie Gregory1:28:54

       ... I was recently on a project that, um, ho- hopefully, uh, Disney will be okay with me talking about it, 'cause it's not the main focus of the show.

    8. TNTrevor Noah1:29:03

       Yeah.

    9. BGBertie Gregory1:29:03

       But I did meet a manta ray. Okay?

    10. TNTrevor Noah1:29:06

        Oh, wow.

    11. EUEugene1:29:07

        Like-

    12. BGBertie Gregory1:29:08

        Huge, giant oceanic manta ray.

    13. TNTrevor Noah1:29:09

        Yeah.

    14. BGBertie Gregory1:29:10

        Five meter plus wingspan.

    15. TNTrevor Noah1:29:12

        Hmm. Five meter ... Oh, yeah. I don't-

    16. BGBertie Gregory1:29:14

        Yeah

    17. TNTrevor Noah1:29:14

        ... I don't think they could get that big.

    18. BGBertie Gregory1:29:15

        Yeah.

    19. EUEugene1:29:15

        Moana's grandmother did.

    20. BGBertie Gregory1:29:18

        Yeah. Well-

    21. TNTrevor Noah1:29:19

        That was beautiful imagery, Eugene.

    22. BGBertie Gregory1:29:21

        Yeah.

    23. EUEugene1:29:21

        I hate it when you do that to me.

    24. TNTrevor Noah1:29:22

        [laughs]

    25. EUEugene1:29:22

        But I love it.

    26. BGBertie Gregory1:29:23

        And m- manta rays have, uh, relative to their body size, the, the largest brain of any fish.

    27. TNTrevor Noah1:29:29

        Wow.

    28. BGBertie Gregory1:29:29

        They're actually incredibly intelligent. And they pass the mirror test, so they, they can recognize themselves.

    29. EUEugene1:29:36

        Themselves.

    30. TNTrevor Noah1:29:36

        Yeah.
30. 1:31:47 – 1:34:59

    Tips for Observing Wildlife and Podcast Outro

    1. EUEugene1:31:47

       that we've displaced. We don't have to be away from the Ngorongoro Crater to be close to the animals or to love them even. You know, we can be there. We can love them to death. But I think you've done a lot, man, and I hadn't known much about you until we spoke today, and I see your passion, and I see why my friend here loves you so much.

    2. BGBertie Gregory1:32:04

       Oh, well, thanks very much for having me, guys.

    3. EUEugene1:32:06

       Yeah, thank you for coming.

    4. BGBertie Gregory1:32:06

       It's been good to chat-

    5. EUEugene1:32:07

       [laughs]

    6. BGBertie Gregory1:32:07

       ... and getting people to care about animals and the natural world, and I would encourage people wherever they live, even if it's in the middle of a city, even if it's like here in New York-

    7. EUEugene1:32:17

       Mm-hmm

    8. BGBertie Gregory1:32:17

       ... there are, the city is home to the, the fastest animal on Earth, peregrine falcon, that'll be hunting off the skyscrapers not far from this very room. So it doesn't matter where you live.

    9. TNTrevor Noah1:32:25

       I've always wondered if I was really seeing those.

    10. BGBertie Gregory1:32:28

        It doesn't matter where you live, there is amazing wildlife to be found.

    11. TNTrevor Noah1:32:30

        I genuinely thought I was ... I was like, "That looks like a falcon." Then I was like, "Trevor, it's a pigeon. Clearly it's a pigeon. You can't just see a falcon in New York City."

    12. BGBertie Gregory1:32:37

        Yeah, you can. Yeah, you can.

    13. TNTrevor Noah1:32:37

        But you can.

    14. BGBertie Gregory1:32:38

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    15. TNTrevor Noah1:32:39

        Huh.

    16. BGBertie Gregory1:32:39

        So yeah, you know-

    17. TNTrevor Noah1:32:40

        Give us a tip for how to sneak up on animals as you depart, like, like in a, in a good way.

    18. BGBertie Gregory1:32:46

        Mm.

    19. TNTrevor Noah1:32:46

        'Cause when you said that, I was like, "Oh, I wanna, I wanna get close and, like, they vi- what are the dos and don'ts?"

    20. BGBertie Gregory1:32:52

        Well, the most important thing is knowing, knowing your subject, knowing-

    21. TNTrevor Noah1:32:56

        Yeah, yeah, okay

    22. BGBertie Gregory1:32:56

        ... knowing the animal. And, uh, and, and I think just spending time, spending time outside.

    23. TNTrevor Noah1:33:01

        Okay.

    24. BGBertie Gregory1:33:01

        I know that sounds kind of obvious.

    25. TNTrevor Noah1:33:02

        So first, be outside.

    26. BGBertie Gregory1:33:03

        Be outside.

    27. TNTrevor Noah1:33:03

        The first rule-

    28. BGBertie Gregory1:33:04

        Yeah

    29. TNTrevor Noah1:33:04

        ... be outside.

    30. BGBertie Gregory1:33:05

        Go look.

Episode duration: 1:35:02