Dr. Jessica Knurick: Is American Food Actually Poison? Debunking the MAHA Movement & Nutrition Myths

1. 0:00 – 1:05

   Quick-Fire Round: Salt, Sugar, and Marketing Myths

   1. TNTrevor Noah0:00

      [upbeat music] Wait, there's a, there's a list of ingredients, basic ingredients that, uh, people always interact with or always have in their homes that they might not be sure if they're good or bad, including myself. So I'm gonna do a quick fire of maybe a few, then you tell me yay or nay, and why the yay, right?

   2. JKDr. Jessica Knurick0:20

      Okay.

   3. TNTrevor Noah0:20

      So salt. Is it a yay or nay?

   4. JKDr. Jessica Knurick0:22

      You need salt. Your body needs salt to survive. It's too much salt that's the problem, which is probably gonna be the, my answer to all of these.

   5. TNTrevor Noah0:29

      So now there's a battle between Himalayan salt or just normal salt. Which one is good? Which one is bad?

   6. JKDr. Jessica Knurick0:34

      They're, they're both fine.

   7. TNTrevor Noah0:35

      Marketing.

   8. JKDr. Jessica Knurick0:36

      Yeah.

   9. TNTrevor Noah0:36

      Sugar, good or bad?

   10. JKDr. Jessica Knurick0:38

       Again, sugar, I mean, there's sugar in fruit, and fruit is a wonderful food, right? So, um, th- because you're also getting all of those nutrients. And so sugar is not necessarily bad. It's the overconsumption of sugar that's bad. And particularly, like, added sugar like a soda, right? 'Cause you're just c- drinking s- sugar with no nutrients-

   11. TNTrevor Noah0:55

       Mm-hmm

   12. JKDr. Jessica Knurick0:56

       ... at all. So, so that's kinda what you wanna stay away from or limit, um, versus just thinking sugar itself is bad.

   13. TNTrevor Noah1:02

       White sugar or brown sugar, which one is the best?

   14. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:04

       They're the same.

2. 1:05 – 1:35

   The Brown Sugar Trap: Is It Actually Healthier?

   1. TNTrevor Noah1:05

      Oh, I always thought brown sugar was way healthier. I thought it was like brown rice. I would eat it all the time, and I'd be like, "Mom, look, I'm being healthy."

   2. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:11

      No.

   3. TNTrevor Noah1:12

      And then she'd throw carrots at my head.

   4. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:13

      [laughs]

   5. TNTrevor Noah1:16

      [upbeat music] This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. [upbeat music] Dr. Jessica... Wait, you know what's funny? We were all

3. 1:35 – 3:35

   Meeting Dr. Jessica Nurik: PhD in Nutrition Science

   1. TNTrevor Noah1:35

      debating how to say the name. I thought it was Knurick, and then someone else was like Nurick.

   2. EUEugene1:41

      Nurick. Nurick.

   3. TNTrevor Noah1:43

      Nurick.

   4. EUEugene1:43

      Nurick. Nurick.

   5. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:43

      It's more-

   6. TNTrevor Noah1:43

      Which one is it?

   7. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:44

      It's closer to the second one.

   8. TNTrevor Noah1:45

      It's-

   9. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:45

      It's Nu- Nurick.

   10. EUEugene1:46

       Nurick.

   11. TNTrevor Noah1:46

       It is Nurick.

   12. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:47

       Yeah.

   13. TNTrevor Noah1:47

       Huh.

   14. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:47

       The K is silent like knife.

   15. TNTrevor Noah1:50

       I don't like silent letters.

   16. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:51

       Yeah. [laughs]

   17. TNTrevor Noah1:51

       I'm not gonna lie. I'm just gonna put it out there.

   18. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:53

       Yeah, it's-

   19. TNTrevor Noah1:54

       I'm not, I'm... Your name can be your name. I just don't think this is cool for people because it's like your name is like a trap.

   20. JKDr. Jessica Knurick2:01

       I, it's a made-up name.

   21. TNTrevor Noah2:02

       Imagine if I was like, "I'm Trevor Noah," and then they're like, "N-O- no, K-N-O-A-H."

   22. JKDr. Jessica Knurick2:07

       I mean, the H-

   23. TNTrevor Noah2:08

       T

   24. JKDr. Jessica Knurick2:08

       ... is kinda silent, isn't it?

   25. TNTrevor Noah2:09

       Yeah. The Noah?

   26. JKDr. Jessica Knurick2:10

       Noah.

   27. TNTrevor Noah2:11

       You caught me. [laughs]

   28. JKDr. Jessica Knurick2:13

       [laughs] You have a silent letter too.

   29. TNTrevor Noah2:16

       I do. I do.

   30. JKDr. Jessica Knurick2:17

       Yeah.
4. 3:35 – 4:37

   Lifestyle vs. Hereditary: Can You Prevent Chronic Disease?

   1. TNTrevor Noah3:35

      help us break down the difference between lifestyle chronic diseases versus what is, like, a non-lifestyle chronic disease.

   2. JKDr. Jessica Knurick3:41

      Yeah, I mean, cr- uh, lifestyle related are just things that we know, we have pretty good evidence that, like, lifestyle related habits, um, or, or behaviors are actually impacting your disease risk.

   3. TNTrevor Noah3:51

      Okay.

   4. JKDr. Jessica Knurick3:51

      So there are some, like, chronic diseases that, that we don't necessarily know that. We don't know, like, how much behavior is, or, or, or, like, lifestyle is actually impacting it. Um-

   5. TNTrevor Noah4:00

      Like, is there an ex... Give me an example just so I can wrap my head around it. I'm trying to... 'Cause y- you said type 2 diabetes would be more lifestyle.

   6. JKDr. Jessica Knurick4:06

      Yeah.

   7. TNTrevor Noah4:06

      Okay. And then type 1, I guess no.

   8. JKDr. Jessica Knurick4:09

      Type 1, no. Yeah.

   9. TNTrevor Noah4:10

      Okay. So that's just, it might just be you, hereditary.

   10. JKDr. Jessica Knurick4:13

       Yeah, like an autoimmune type, type of response.

   11. TNTrevor Noah4:16

       Ah, okay.

   12. JKDr. Jessica Knurick4:17

       Yeah.

   13. TNTrevor Noah4:17

       Okay.

   14. JKDr. Jessica Knurick4:17

       Yeah. M- a lot of hereditary factors.

   15. TNTrevor Noah4:20

       Right.

   16. JKDr. Jessica Knurick4:20

       Yeah, a lot of genetics.

   17. TNTrevor Noah4:22

       Yeah. And so you, you're the s-

   18. JKDr. Jessica Knurick4:23

       Potentially other, like, e- environmental factors. We just don't know as well.

   19. TNTrevor Noah4:27

       So some we know for certain, or there's a lot of research to suggest it?

   20. JKDr. Jessica Knurick4:31

       Yeah. And it's also that, like, you could potentially prevent the chronic disease-

   21. TNTrevor Noah4:35

       Got it

   22. JKDr. Jessica Knurick4:36

       ... with lifestyle change.

5. 4:37 – 6:18

   The Good Side of Social Media: Bridging the Expertise Gap

   1. TNTrevor Noah4:37

      Got it.

   2. JKDr. Jessica Knurick4:37

      Yeah.

   3. TNTrevor Noah4:38

      I love the world that you're in. Um, you know, when we, we were chatting to the team. I, I feel like you are one of the bright spots of social media.

   4. JKDr. Jessica Knurick4:47

      Hmm.

   5. TNTrevor Noah4:48

      You know? And Eugene and I were chatting about this the other day, and we were saying, like, it was... I'm, I'm not gonna take credit for it, 'cause you said it.

   6. EUEugene4:53

      Yo. 'Cause Jessica-

   7. JKDr. Jessica Knurick4:54

      [laughs]

   8. EUEugene4:55

      ... things that happen in our friendships with taking credit.

   9. TNTrevor Noah4:58

      [laughs] I'm not gonna-

   10. EUEugene4:59

       These disclaimers need to happen more often.

   11. TNTrevor Noah5:00

       I'm not gonna take credit because-

   12. EUEugene5:01

       So buckle up

   13. TNTrevor Noah5:02

       ... because you said it.

   14. EUEugene5:03

       [laughs]

   15. TNTrevor Noah5:03

       But Eugene said something very valuable. He said, "You know, w- we can always jump to try and, like, vilify social media, and we can look at the bad, and we can..." You know what I mean?

   16. EUEugene5:12

       Hmm.

   17. TNTrevor Noah5:12

       But we also forget that there's a good side of what's happening on social media. There's also a good side of what happens on TV, et cetera. And I was like, "Man, Eugene, I f- I feel you, man. I feel you."

   18. JKDr. Jessica Knurick5:22

       Yeah. Class half fu- full.

   19. TNTrevor Noah5:23

       And, yeah. Yeah. And I, I feel like you're one of those bright spots, an expert on social media breaking down the most complicated-

   20. EUEugene5:32

       Yeah

   21. TNTrevor Noah5:32

       ... topics for everyone to fully understand.

   22. JKDr. Jessica Knurick5:36

       Thank you. I appreciate that.

   23. TNTrevor Noah5:37

       No, we thank you. No, genuinely.

   24. EUEugene5:39

       Hmm.

   25. JKDr. Jessica Knurick5:39

       Yeah.

   26. TNTrevor Noah5:39

       We do. I love how you got into it as well. You know what I mean? It's like one minute you're, you're the scientist who's, like, really working on, like, the, uh... What do they call it again? The, um, uh, you, you, you write the research papers and the-

   27. JKDr. Jessica Knurick5:53

       Like a grant?

   28. EUEugene5:53

       The sketch pad?

   29. TNTrevor Noah5:54

       No. You're not my friend.

   30. EUEugene5:58

       [laughs]
6. 6:18 – 9:34

   Why Academics Avoid Social Media (and Why That’s Changing)

   1. JKDr. Jessica Knurick6:18

      Yeah, I've kind of, um, I've kind of talked about this before, that, um, for a very long time it was ver- really frowned upon for academics to go on social media.

   2. TNTrevor Noah6:25

      Right. Hmm.

   3. JKDr. Jessica Knurick6:25

      So it was ki- uh, it was looked down upon. I, I first went to social media actually back in 2016. My little brother was like, "You should get on this new app." It was like, um, Twitter's, like, version of a video app. And so I, I was teaching nutrition courses at, at a university at the time, and I was like, "You know, I could teach on, on this app. I'll just like, whatever my lesson is that day, I'll go teach it on the app." So that's what I did, and I, like, built up this little following within a few months, and, um, I got a lot of pushback from colleagues and from former colleagues.

   4. TNTrevor Noah6:53

      Hmm.

   5. JKDr. Jessica Knurick6:54

      And, you know, I was a brand new tenure track professor, and I didn't wanna, like, put my career in jeopardy.

   6. TNTrevor Noah6:58

      Yeah, yeah.

   7. JKDr. Jessica Knurick6:59

      And so when that happened and, you know, people were making fun of me, like, "How's your vlog doing?"

   8. TNTrevor Noah7:03

      Oh, damn.

   9. JKDr. Jessica Knurick7:04

      Um, and, and that was a really common occurrence. It was just not a space that, like, we were supposed to be in. And so I got off, and I was off for years and years after that. And I, I've talked to lots of other, like, academics and even, like, medical doctors, and they all feel very similarly. Like, it just, it was really frowned upon for us to go to social media, and unfortunately, that's where people go, for better or worse, for their information. And so we lost a lot of ground for many years-

   10. TNTrevor Noah7:28

       Hmm

   11. JKDr. Jessica Knurick7:28

       ... not going to spaces where people went for information. Um, and so that's what really initially, well, well, I guess the second time, brought me to social media, was I was pregnant with my son. No, I was pregnant with my son in 2019 and then my daughter in 2022, and between those times, for whatever reason, I think it was after COVID, it was also, like, Twit- uh, TikTok had come out.

   12. TNTrevor Noah7:48

       Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

   13. JKDr. Jessica Knurick7:48

       And I just started seeing way more misinformation than I had seen the first time around, and, like, getting targeted it, with it in my algorithm. Um, and so that's, I was like, "Well, that's not correct." And, like, I felt kind of a obligation to protect that particular demographic 'cause, like, we're quite vulnerable at that life stage when we have young kids-

   14. TNTrevor Noah8:07

       Hmm

   15. JKDr. Jessica Knurick8:07

       ... um, or we're pregnant. And so I just went on and started correcting kind of, like, nutrition misinformation in the pregnancy space. Um, and then, you know, my, my content has shifted much more so, um, in the last year or so after last summer when I saw a lot of, you know, this, like, movement happening, uh, in public health and nutrition. It just happened to be, like, my exact area of focus the last 15 years. And so I was able to really see the manipulation that was happening with the narrative.

   16. TNTrevor Noah8:32

       Hmm.

   17. JKDr. Jessica Knurick8:32

       And, um, I decided to just start correcting some of the misinformation, and so that's kind of, like, what brought me to, to here, where I am now, sitting with you, Trevor. [laughs]

   18. TNTrevor Noah8:42

       Do you guys need a moment? [laughs] I've got places to be today.

   19. JKDr. Jessica Knurick8:46

       Here we are. Serendipitous. [laughs]

   20. TNTrevor Noah8:48

       [laughs] I, I, we always have this debate about social media, and we're thinking there's a pushback in trying to find... Not even a pushback, maybe a U-turn in how we experience social media now. People are trying to look for the bad, but seems like you found the good. What is, what is the good that is in social media right now that people can go look for?

   21. JKDr. Jessica Knurick9:06

       Well, I think that there's a lot of good content out there.

   22. TNTrevor Noah9:08

       Hmm.

   23. JKDr. Jessica Knurick9:09

       You just have to, like, sort through it and sift through it, right?

   24. TNTrevor Noah9:11

       Hmm.

   25. JKDr. Jessica Knurick9:11

       So, like, sifting through the bad. But I mean, it, social media gives you the opportunity to learn from people you never really would've been able to learn from before, right?

   26. TNTrevor Noah9:18

       Yeah, access.

   27. JKDr. Jessica Knurick9:19

       Like, if I have, like, a question about some sort of, like, beauty product, there's, like, so many dermatologists out there or cosmetic chemists just, like, creating content about it. And I'm like, "This is wonderful." So I think that's a great part about it. If you can find people giving credible information, I think it can be a great source of information.

7. 9:34 – 12:01

   How to Spot a "Health Scam" Online: 3 Major Red Flags

   1. TNTrevor Noah9:34

      Hmm. How do you figure out who the credible person is, though? Yeah.

   2. JKDr. Jessica Knurick9:38

      You know-

   3. TNTrevor Noah9:38

      That, that's, like, the biggest obstacle for me, is, you know, when I, when, when my friend sent me your videos at first, I was like, "This is amazing." Yeah. And then the, the second thing I always have to tell myself is I go, like, "Is it amazing because I want to believe it?" Mm-hmm. Because I'm not an expert. Mm-hmm. So how do I know this is the right thing? Hmm. And that becomes, like, the ultimate paradigm, uh, paradox, rather, online, is you get it from an expert, so you think it's real, and then you go, "Wait, how do I know this person is an expert?" 'Cause everyone's a doctor, you know? The Dr. Oz doctor. Yeah. And then if Dr. Oz says it-

   4. JKDr. Jessica Knurick10:07

      Everyone's a doctor. [laughs]

   5. TNTrevor Noah10:08

      Yeah, no, do you know what I mean?

   6. JKDr. Jessica Knurick10:09

      Yeah.

   7. TNTrevor Noah10:09

      Like, people just doctor. Everyone doctor, doctor, doctor. Hmm. Like, how did you... W- Was there a moment when people were like, "Who are you to say this?" I, I'm sure people even say that to you now in some way. I'm sure there's some people who go like, "You're the scam. You're the fake person."

   8. JKDr. Jessica Knurick10:22

      Yeah, people are always gonna do that, right? But-

   9. TNTrevor Noah10:24

      Did you just say that?

   10. JKDr. Jessica Knurick10:25

       [laughs]

   11. TNTrevor Noah10:26

       What do you mean? Is, is this how you feel? No, I'm... That's not how I feel. I said the... I'm sure- There's so much conviction in your eyes. Yeah, because I channeled the comments section. Okay, maybe let me ask Jessica the question.

   12. JKDr. Jessica Knurick10:35

       I just had that look on my face.

   13. TNTrevor Noah10:36

       Okay, okay, you ask the question. Dr. Jessica, do you find that sometimes on social media people look at you and think p- perhaps maybe you're the scam?

   14. JKDr. Jessica Knurick10:45

       [laughs]

   15. TNTrevor Noah10:45

       That was actually-

   16. JKDr. Jessica Knurick10:46

       Was that better?

   17. TNTrevor Noah10:46

       That was actually better.

   18. JKDr. Jessica Knurick10:47

       Yeah.

   19. TNTrevor Noah10:47

       That was better.

   20. JKDr. Jessica Knurick10:48

       I, I think that yes. I think that if, um, you know, if, if I'm saying something that, like, somebody doesn't like, it's very easy to write somebody off, just, just saying, like, "You're a scam," or whatever it is. Um, I think there's a couple of things you can look for. This is not foolproof, but, like, some things to, like, identify if somebody is giving accurate information. Um, they, they tend to not be super sensational.

   21. TNTrevor Noah11:06

       Hmm.

   22. JKDr. Jessica Knurick11:07

       So, which plays really well into the algorithm, right? So a lot of times-

   23. TNTrevor Noah11:10

       Mm-hmm

   24. JKDr. Jessica Knurick11:10

       ... in my space, if it's, like, nutrition misinformation, they'll scare you at the front of the video, right? They'll scare you about, like, if you're poisoning your children or if you're consuming toxins.

   25. TNTrevor Noah11:21

       Oh.

   26. JKDr. Jessica Knurick11:21

       Um, experts don't generally talk like that. Like, ge- genuine people who are trying to educate are not gonna scare you. They're gonna explain the nuance. So if there's some sort of inflammatory claim at the front, that's kind of a red flag. And then particularly then if they walk you through kind of why, why it's, why that's so toxic or whatever it is, and then try to sell you something at the very end. Generally, those are some, like, good red flags. I'm not saying that's al- always the case.

   27. TNTrevor Noah11:44

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JKDr. Jessica Knurick11:44

       Um, but that's just something to, like, keep in mind. Maybe this is not, maybe this information, you know, has an ulterior motive to try to get me to purchase their whatever it is at the end. Um, so I think kind of being aware of that, and then, um, again, really sensationalized information is generally not how, like, experts talk.

8. 12:01 – 13:51

   The MAHA Movement: Identifying Real Problems vs. Fake Cures

   1. TNTrevor Noah12:01

      That, that feels like the crux-

   2. JKDr. Jessica Knurick12:02

      Hmm

   3. TNTrevor Noah12:02

      ... of the RFK Me- uh, MAHA movement, Make America Healthy Again.

   4. JKDr. Jessica Knurick12:07

      Mm-hmm.

   5. TNTrevor Noah12:07

      Which, by the way, is a great starting point. Mm-hmm. Who doesn't want America to be healthy?

   6. JKDr. Jessica Knurick12:11

      No one.

   7. TNTrevor Noah12:11

      Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Well...

   8. JKDr. Jessica Knurick12:13

      Well, some people, but-

   9. TNTrevor Noah12:14

      Yeah. [laughs] Well, eh. You know what I mean? [laughs] But it's like, yeah, who doesn't want America to be healthy? Yeah. And then they go like, "Hey, you know, the, the foods that we're giving our kids and the-" One of the things I noticed about, you know, somebody like RFK and, and the people around him is they're often really good at identifying real problems.

   10. JKDr. Jessica Knurick12:32

       Yeah.

   11. EUEugene12:32

       Mm.

   12. TNTrevor Noah12:33

       They're not lying about the problems. And so they rope you in by saying, "Hey, kids are unhealthy, and kids are not getting good food in schools. And, you know, the, the medi- the pharmaceutical industry might not have your best..." And everyone's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." And then to your point, it flips, and then they sell you something.

   13. JKDr. Jessica Knurick12:51

       Yeah, I mean, it's great because, you know, the, the... If you identify a correct problem that, like, we all care about, and then you see somebody kind of countering some of the, uh, like, misinformation that's being spread, it's very easy for those people to be like, "Why don't you want America to be healthy?" People ask me that sometimes.

   14. TNTrevor Noah13:06

       Yeah.

   15. JKDr. Jessica Knurick13:06

       And it's like, "Wait, no, I want America [laughs] to be healthy. That's why I'm talking about this." Um, but I think it's, like, a brilliant kind of, like, propaganda tool to do.

   16. TNTrevor Noah13:13

       It's, it's, it's the snake oil salesman handbook. That's what it is. You come in, you identify the problem, and then you go, "I immediately can cure this thing with my snake oil."

   17. EUEugene13:22

       Yeah.

   18. JKDr. Jessica Knurick13:23

       Yeah.

   19. EUEugene13:23

       But I also feel like with nutrition, it gets very tricky sometimes. You know, growing up, there were those ads that would be like, "Open your cupboard right now, your food pantry. Open your fridge right now."

   20. TNTrevor Noah13:32

       Yeah, yeah.

   21. EUEugene13:33

       "Everything in there that you see is wrong." Then they'll be like, "Fresh veg- fruits and vegetables, you must eat this and eat that." But now later on in life, you get to hear, "So much sugar in fruit, so much sugar in this, so much sugar in that."

   22. JKDr. Jessica Knurick13:44

       Yeah, actually-

   23. EUEugene13:44

       "Don't eat, don't drink fruit juice. It's not good for you." It feels like the messages have been confused.

   24. TNTrevor Noah13:49

       What... Yeah, what, wait, what... Let's-

   25. EUEugene13:50

       Yeah

   26. TNTrevor Noah13:50

       ... let's...

9. 13:51 – 15:45

   The Truth About Fruit: Fiber, Sugar, and Metabolic Impact

   1. TNTrevor Noah13:51

      Actually, what is the truth around that?

   2. EUEugene13:52

      Mm.

   3. TNTrevor Noah13:53

      Fruit good, fruit bad?

   4. JKDr. Jessica Knurick13:55

      Fruit good.

   5. TNTrevor Noah13:56

      Oh, okay.

   6. EUEugene13:56

      Fruit juice?

   7. JKDr. Jessica Knurick13:57

      Yeah. [laughs] Well, fruit juice is different than fruit, 'cause fruit itself has a lot of fiber in it. Um, fruit juice kind of strips out the fiber.

   8. EUEugene14:05

      Mm.

   9. JKDr. Jessica Knurick14:05

      So fruit juice essentially has a lot of sugar and not a lot of the fiber that f- that real fruit has. And so there c- those are differences in terms of, like, their metabolic impact on you.

   10. EUEugene14:15

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JKDr. Jessica Knurick14:15

       So we don't have a problem eating too much fruit in this country. Like, there's, we actually, m- most of us, almost 90% of us don't meet fruit intake guidelines. So the benefits of eating fruit, which is, like, all of the micronutrients and polyphenols and antioxidants and all of that, and the fiber, um, far outweigh any problems that we would see with, like, the, the sugar, 'cause the sugar's packaged within the fruit. So it's different than just k- like drinking a soda, for example, which doesn't have any of that. It's just the sugar.

   12. TNTrevor Noah14:44

       I, I can eat half a watermelon-

   13. EUEugene14:48

       Yeah

   14. TNTrevor Noah14:48

       ... in one sitting.

   15. EUEugene14:49

       Same.

   16. JKDr. Jessica Knurick14:50

       That's a lot. [laughs]

   17. EUEugene14:51

       Same.

   18. TNTrevor Noah14:51

       Okay.

   19. JKDr. Jessica Knurick14:52

       Does that give you GI issues?

   20. EUEugene14:54

       Yeah.

   21. JKDr. Jessica Knurick14:55

       [laughs]

   22. EUEugene14:56

       Do you feel itchy somewhere? 'Cause that's GI.

   23. TNTrevor Noah14:58

       I don't think, I don't think that's GI.

   24. EUEugene15:00

       Oh.

   25. TNTrevor Noah15:00

       I'm glad we've got an expert here.

   26. JKDr. Jessica Knurick15:02

       [laughs]

   27. TNTrevor Noah15:02

       I don't think GI has-

   28. JKDr. Jessica Knurick15:03

       GI is, like, gastrointestinal.

   29. TNTrevor Noah15:06

       [laughs]

   30. JKDr. Jessica Knurick15:07

       Yeah.
10. 15:45 – 18:02

    The Surprising History & Stereotypes of Watermelon

    1. TNTrevor Noah15:45

       Yes, watermelon.

    2. EUEugene15:46

       Oh, I love watermelon.

    3. TNTrevor Noah15:47

       I mean, how can you not love watermelon?

    4. EUEugene15:48

       Yeah.

    5. TNTrevor Noah15:48

       You know the greatest scam ever committed?

    6. EUEugene15:50

       Is eating it shirtless.

    7. TNTrevor Noah15:52

       No.

    8. EUEugene15:53

       Oh.

    9. TNTrevor Noah15:53

       But I'm, I'm into it.

    10. EUEugene15:54

        You must try it.

    11. TNTrevor Noah15:55

        I've never thought of that.

    12. EUEugene15:56

        Spot's gone.

    13. TNTrevor Noah15:57

        Wow.

    14. EUEugene15:57

        Just you, a sticky chest.

    15. TNTrevor Noah15:59

        Damn.

    16. EUEugene15:59

        Then shower straight after.

    17. TNTrevor Noah16:00

        No, what I was gonna say is, like-

    18. EUEugene16:01

        Then finish off the rest of the watermelon that's left

    19. TNTrevor Noah16:02

        ... what I was gonna say was, like, the craziest thing, the worst thing that ever happened was, like, when I came to America, and then I discovered, like, here, watermelon had, like, racist connotations. Then I was like-

    20. EUEugene16:10

        Oh.

    21. JKDr. Jessica Knurick16:11

        Oh, yeah

    22. TNTrevor Noah16:11

        ... "What?" And they were like, "Oh, Black people love watermelon." And I was like, "Yeah." And they're like, "You love it." And I was like, "Yeah." [laughs]

    23. EUEugene16:18

        What is that?

    24. TNTrevor Noah16:18

        And they were like, "No, but you love it."

    25. EUEugene16:19

        Yes, yes, yes.

    26. TNTrevor Noah16:20

        I was like, "Yeah."

    27. EUEugene16:21

        Where does that come from?

    28. TNTrevor Noah16:22

        Ah, man, it's all, like-

    29. EUEugene16:23

        Jessica, do you know? Are you a nutritionist?

    30. JKDr. Jessica Knurick16:25

        I don't know. I, I... [laughs] I don't.
11. 18:02 – 19:40

    Food Deserts: Why Fresh Produce is Hard to Find

    1. EUEugene18:02

       I always feel like in any industry, there's always corporations getting involved and trying to take people off eating fruit and vegetables that are fresh, and going for the packaged foods. Do you find that in urban areas and in cities and in first world countries mostly, fresh fruit and vegetable are very expensive and unattainable for most people?

    2. JKDr. Jessica Knurick18:19

       Yeah, they're certainly more expensive relative to, uh, when we're looking at, like, the caloric density, so how many calories are-

    3. TNTrevor Noah18:25

       Yes

    4. JKDr. Jessica Knurick18:25

       ... actually in the food. They're certainly more expensive than, than these packaged foods. A lot of that is because of the policies that we've enacted in this country. Um, and- Particularly kind of like zoning laws that have created these, what we term food deserts in a lot of the urban areas, um, where they literally don't have access, like easy access-

    5. TNTrevor Noah18:42

       Mm-hmm

    6. JKDr. Jessica Knurick18:42

       ... to a grocery store with fresh fruits and vegetables. So, so they're going to dollar stores and they're going to gas stations for a lot of their groceries. Um, and so you know what we might take for granted, going to a grocery store, like I live in the suburbs, there's like five grocery stores within a, a close proximity.

    7. TNTrevor Noah18:57

       Yeah.

    8. EUEugene18:57

       Hmm.

    9. JKDr. Jessica Knurick18:58

       A lot of people don't have that, and so they have to take like, you know, multiple buses to get to a grocery store.

    10. TNTrevor Noah19:03

        Mm.

    11. JKDr. Jessica Knurick19:03

        And then they don't h- have transportation, so they're carrying all of that home, and it just, the, the barriers of access are much higher. So it's not even just cost, it's also just accessibility-

    12. EUEugene19:11

        Mm

    13. JKDr. Jessica Knurick19:11

        ... of fresh fruits and vegetables. Um, and so what that, what happens then is people are heavily reliant on prepackaged foods, uh, much more so, so they're e- they're more accessible, they have longer shelf lives.

    14. EUEugene19:23

        Yes.

    15. JKDr. Jessica Knurick19:23

        The same fruits and vegetables go bad after a few days, and if you don't, you know, prepare them, um, then you have to go back and do that whole thing again to try to get a- access to them. Um, so yeah, that, that is a big problem in our country. I mean, millions of Americans live in these food deserts, um, that, that don't have r- easy access to fresh fruits and vegetables.

    16. EUEugene19:39

        Wow.

    17. TNTrevor Noah19:39

        How

12. 19:40 – 21:03

    Defining Ultra-Processed Foods (The NOVA Classification)

    1. TNTrevor Noah19:40

       do, how do we think of ultra-processed foods? Because depending on where you look, they'll tell you they give you cancer.

    2. EUEugene19:46

       Mm-hmm.

    3. TNTrevor Noah19:47

       Uh, they causing obesity, you shouldn't eat any of them. Some people are like, "Oh, it's in moderation." Some people are like-

    4. EUEugene19:52

       Hmm

    5. TNTrevor Noah19:52

       ... "No, they're, they're completely fine." W- w- what's your view on ultra-processed foods? And I know that's a broad term, but maybe-

    6. JKDr. Jessica Knurick19:58

       Yeah, we should define it.

    7. TNTrevor Noah19:59

       Yeah, let's, let's define it.

    8. JKDr. Jessica Knurick20:00

       So there's not a, there's not a great definition for it, which is why HHS right now has k- kind of an RFI out to fi- like a request for information to-

    9. TNTrevor Noah20:07

       Okay

    10. JKDr. Jessica Knurick20:07

        ... figure out like what is a good definition for ultra-processed foods, 'cause they do a lot of talking about ultra-processed foods, but we don't have a great definition. In the nutrition science research, we use something called the NOVA classification.

    11. TNTrevor Noah20:17

        NOVA classification.

    12. JKDr. Jessica Knurick20:18

        Yeah. So it's, uh, it's out of Brazil actually. And so they did like a first effort years ago to define what ultra-processed means, and they defined it as, um, foods that include an ingredient or a processing method that you don't have access to.

    13. TNTrevor Noah20:33

        Hmm.

    14. JKDr. Jessica Knurick20:33

        So you can't replicate it in your kitchen. So, uh, my, the best way I can explain it is with corn. So unprocessed would be corn you pick from the garden.

    15. TNTrevor Noah20:41

        Okay.

    16. JKDr. Jessica Knurick20:42

        Um, minimally processed would be like frozen corn.

    17. TNTrevor Noah20:44

        Okay.

    18. JKDr. Jessica Knurick20:44

        Um, so they just shuck the corn and put it in the freezer.

    19. TNTrevor Noah20:47

        Yeah.

    20. JKDr. Jessica Knurick20:47

        And then, um, processed would be canned corn.

    21. TNTrevor Noah20:50

        Okay.

    22. JKDr. Jessica Knurick20:51

        That they add a little sodium. So just adding sodium is considered processed, like-

    23. TNTrevor Noah20:54

        Yeah

    24. JKDr. Jessica Knurick20:54

        ... in this classification. Um, and then ultra-processed would be a Dorito chip. So you can't-

    25. TNTrevor Noah20:59

        Wow

    26. JKDr. Jessica Knurick20:59

        ... replicate a Dorito chip in your-

    27. EUEugene21:01

        You're good

    28. JKDr. Jessica Knurick21:01

        ... kitchen. But there is corn.

    29. TNTrevor Noah21:02

        She's,

13. 21:03 – 23:07

    Are All Processed Foods Bad? The Nuance of Nutrient Density

    1. TNTrevor Noah21:03

       she's amazing.

    2. EUEugene21:03

       You are-

    3. JKDr. Jessica Knurick21:03

       [laughs]

    4. TNTrevor Noah21:03

       You see now?

    5. EUEugene21:04

       ... good.

    6. JKDr. Jessica Knurick21:05

       So, but if we use that definition-

    7. EUEugene21:07

       Mm-hmm

    8. JKDr. Jessica Knurick21:07

       ... right? Because the, well, again, the definition is an ingredient or processing method you don't have access to.

    9. EUEugene21:12

       Mm.

    10. JKDr. Jessica Knurick21:12

        So that really means any of these additives that, you know, uh, that, that we use to like preserve food-

    11. TNTrevor Noah21:18

        Yeah, yeah

    12. JKDr. Jessica Knurick21:18

        ... or change the color of food-

    13. EUEugene21:20

        Hmm

    14. JKDr. Jessica Knurick21:20

        ... or those types of things. Um, there is so much variability in the nutrient density of those foods. So you can have something like a Dorito chip that doesn't have very much nutrient density, right? It's not, it's not great for you. But then you can also have something like a protein powder would be considered ultra-processed, but you're getting a lot of protein in that protein powder.

    15. EUEugene21:37

        Ah.

    16. JKDr. Jessica Knurick21:38

        Right? So, so the problem-

    17. TNTrevor Noah21:38

        So you can't just go good or bad.

    18. JKDr. Jessica Knurick21:40

        Exactly. And, and, e- uh, the people in charge right now are wanting to go good or bad and, and kind of like demonizing the previous administration for not like taking a hard stance on ultra-processed foods.

    19. EUEugene21:50

        Hmm.

    20. JKDr. Jessica Knurick21:50

        But this is the reason. When you look at the science, there is, there's like nutrient dense ultra-processed foods, and th- they're more accessible. And so if someone can devise a healthful diet that includes a lot of ultra-processed foods, but that it can still be a health promoting diet for those people who don't have access to fresh fruits and vegetables, for example, then we can't demonize those foods, right? The, the, we have to identify that, oh, those can actually be health promoting. Um, and so there's, there, we still need to do a lot more research in this area, and they, they, you know, um, they've been doing some of that research at the NIH looking at ultra-processed foods. Um, so it's very, it's a very nuanced kind of like ecosystem there. Um, but, but at the end of the day, low nutrient ultra-processed foods, these prepackaged foods, um, there's pretty good evidence that they're, that they're negatively impacting our health.

    21. TNTrevor Noah22:37

        How do, how do we figure this out? I- i- is there like a, a simple trick that we can use when we're out there buying food? You know, uh, so let's use Doritos as an example.

    22. JKDr. Jessica Knurick22:47

        Yeah.

    23. TNTrevor Noah22:47

        Someone grabs a bag of Doritos.

    24. EUEugene22:49

        I did.

    25. TNTrevor Noah22:49

        Uh, I wasn't gonna say who. Someone grabs a bag of Doritos, right? They haven't eaten that morning.

    26. JKDr. Jessica Knurick22:54

        Yeah.

    27. EUEugene22:54

        I didn't.

    28. TNTrevor Noah22:55

        I wasn't gonna name any names. And then they start nibbling away, and you can see that this person is hungry, and there's-

    29. EUEugene23:00

        I am

    30. TNTrevor Noah23:00

        ... yeah, and they're just like, "You know, I just need like a few little nibbles of a thing, nibbles of a thing," and then they eat it. And then afterwards, they

14. 23:07 – 26:51

    The Science of Satiety: Why You Can’t Stop Eating Chips

    1. TNTrevor Noah23:07

       still don't really feel like they've eaten anything.

    2. EUEugene23:09

       I don't.

    3. TNTrevor Noah23:10

       And their stomach isn't full.

    4. EUEugene23:12

       At all.

    5. TNTrevor Noah23:13

       And they're going, "I still need to eat something."

    6. EUEugene23:16

       After the podcast, yeah.

    7. TNTrevor Noah23:17

       And because I feel like I need to eat something, it means that that wasn't like necessarily bad for me or didn't... Do, do, do you get what I'm saying?

    8. JKDr. Jessica Knurick23:24

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    9. TNTrevor Noah23:24

       How do, like what, what is that gap that we, that we're... 'Cause we, we all experience it. Someone goes like, "Oh, I still have space."

    10. EUEugene23:30

        Mm.

    11. JKDr. Jessica Knurick23:31

        Mm-hmm.

    12. TNTrevor Noah23:31

        So help me understand that, 'cause I, I, on a, on a, you know, if I just read it, uh, ultra dense calories, I'm like, "Yeah, I understand this." I don't really understand it.

    13. JKDr. Jessica Knurick23:40

        Okay. So-

    14. TNTrevor Noah23:40

        Hmm

    15. JKDr. Jessica Knurick23:40

        ... with Dorito chips, let's take Doritos.

    16. TNTrevor Noah23:42

        Yeah.

    17. JKDr. Jessica Knurick23:42

        I mean, I don't mean to throw Doritos under the bus, but-

    18. TNTrevor Noah23:44

        No, no, no. Let's say all chips.

    19. JKDr. Jessica Knurick23:45

        Yeah.

    20. TNTrevor Noah23:45

        All the chips.

    21. JKDr. Jessica Knurick23:46

        Chips.

    22. TNTrevor Noah23:46

        Yes.

    23. JKDr. Jessica Knurick23:46

        Let's, let's look at chips.

    24. TNTrevor Noah23:47

        Yes.

    25. JKDr. Jessica Knurick23:48

        So chips tend to be high in salt and fat.

    26. TNTrevor Noah23:51

        Okay.

    27. JKDr. Jessica Knurick23:52

        And so any combination of salt, sugar, and fat are g- is gonna be what we term hyper-satiating, right? So it's gonna be like you-

    28. EUEugene23:59

        Unholy trinity

    29. JKDr. Jessica Knurick23:59

        ... you can just keep eating it, right?

    30. EUEugene24:01

        Mm-hmm.
15. 26:51 – 28:41

    Hunger vs. Fullness: How Hormones Signal Your Brain

    1. TNTrevor Noah26:51

       [laughs]

    2. EUEugene26:51

       You know, everything that you are saying about Doritos is so true about how they make you feel, 'cause I'm constantly battling with that. If I haven't eaten anything healthy in the morning, I'll start with junk and I'll start thinking I'm, I'm doing good, but then I'll feel even worse throughout the day. But my question has always been: What is, what is the definition of being full, and what is the definition of being hungry? Because there's people who go, "I don't eat that much," and they're fine, but there's people who if they skip a meal, they ultimately, you know, they fall into collapse because they are super hungry. So when you're eating something good, what is the battery level of, "No, now I'm full"? Is it because you've had the mass of food, or is it because-

    3. TNTrevor Noah27:27

       Oh, yeah

    4. EUEugene27:27

       ... your mind is going, "We've ticked that box. We've got enough of that, and we're good now"?

    5. JKDr. Jessica Knurick27:32

       I actually do not know the exact answer to your question.

    6. EUEugene27:35

       Mm.

    7. JKDr. Jessica Knurick27:36

       Whether which one it is. I just know, we ha- we obviously have hormones that are kind of, like, sending signals to our brain. We have hunger hormones, we have... And satiety hormones. And so essentially-

    8. EUEugene27:46

       What are s- satiety hormones?

    9. JKDr. Jessica Knurick27:47

       Satiety means-

    10. EUEugene27:48

        Satiety

    11. JKDr. Jessica Knurick27:48

        ... like you're full. Like-

    12. EUEugene27:49

        Okay

    13. JKDr. Jessica Knurick27:49

        ... so hunger and then full.

    14. EUEugene27:50

        Okay.

    15. JKDr. Jessica Knurick27:51

        Um, and so when, you know, when you are eating to a certain level, this is why they kind of say to, like, eat slow and digest your food because it gives, like, it gives your hormones essentially time to kind of trigger your brain, "Hey, we're full," right? So if you're kind of, if you are relaxed, you're sitting. You know, a lot of people on vacation say that they feel a lot better when they're on vacation when they, when they're eating, and a big part of that is they're relaxed. They're not stressed. They're not running around while eating, and, like, they're not driving their car and eating a sandwich, right? They're, like, sitting at a table and chatting and, like, having a meal and digesting that meal. And so when they do that, they tend to eat less as well-

    16. EUEugene28:25

        Mm

    17. JKDr. Jessica Knurick28:25

        ... because when you're digesting, it gives those signals time to be like, "Hey, we're full, so let's not overeat."

    18. EUEugene28:31

        Mm-hmm.

    19. JKDr. Jessica Knurick28:31

        Which is another thing about ultra-processed foods. It makes it really f- like, convenient to eat quickly, right? And so the quicker we eat, the more we're gonna eat before we feel that feeling of full.

16. 28:41 – 32:25

    Calorie Density Explained: Watermelon vs. Doritos

    1. TNTrevor Noah28:41

       Okay, so help me understand one more thing. Uh, 'cause I, I, I, I, I really don't get this even though I try and read it and understand it.

    2. EUEugene28:48

       Mm.

    3. TNTrevor Noah28:50

       How is it that that tiny bag can make you gain weight when it's, like, that, that tiny? Help me understand, like, the calorie and, and-

    4. JKDr. Jessica Knurick28:59

       Mm

    5. TNTrevor Noah28:59

       ... why you're gaining weight from a thing. So I, I can eat half a watermelon, as I've said.

    6. EUEugene29:04

       Mm.

    7. TNTrevor Noah29:05

       And I can eat, like, a few bags of Doritos. Now, I'm not saying this scientifically.

    8. EUEugene29:09

       Yeah.

    9. TNTrevor Noah29:09

       But the Doritos will... If I look at my body, if I have, like, if I have a week of terrible food like that-

    10. EUEugene29:15

        Mm-hmm

    11. TNTrevor Noah29:15

        ... I'll see a difference versus if I eat, like, watermelons the whole week type, like, fruit things. W- how, how does that work? Because it, it seems like this is, the mass of this is greater.

    12. EUEugene29:24

        Mm-hmm.

    13. TNTrevor Noah29:25

        But I don't think people fully understand how that tiny amount of food is making them gain more weight than more food, like, in a plate.

    14. JKDr. Jessica Knurick29:33

        It's just calories. It's, 'cause what, it's what we term energy density or calorie density.

    15. TNTrevor Noah29:38

        Yeah.

    16. JKDr. Jessica Knurick29:38

        So a, a watermelon is very, um, is not calorie dense at all, which means that for the mass that you're consuming-

    17. TNTrevor Noah29:46

        Okay

    18. JKDr. Jessica Knurick29:46

        ... the calories are very low, right? Because they're, the watermelon, first of all, it has tons of water. Like, that's its main thing. Um, it's also got fiber, and it's got all of these other, like, properties to it. So, so when you're consuming it, you, it feels like you're eating a lot. It's just like if you consume, like, a huge plate of vegetables, right?

    19. TNTrevor Noah30:03

        Yeah. Mm-hmm.

    20. JKDr. Jessica Knurick30:04

        There's not gonna be a lot of calories in those vegetables, but it's gonna look like a lot. Like, uh, you're gonna... If you hand me a big salad, I'm gonna be like, "Whoa, that looks big." And then you hand me, like, this little bowl of pasta. It might not look as big, but it's gonna have way more-

    21. TNTrevor Noah30:16

        Ah

    22. JKDr. Jessica Knurick30:16

        ... calories in it-

    23. TNTrevor Noah30:17

        Okay

    24. JKDr. Jessica Knurick30:17

        ... than my big salad-

    25. TNTrevor Noah30:18

        Okay

    26. JKDr. Jessica Knurick30:18

        ... right, of, of vegetables, you know, w- if you don't put dressing on it. So it's, it's all about the caloric intake.

    27. TNTrevor Noah30:24

        Yes.

    28. JKDr. Jessica Knurick30:24

        So the, the small bag of chips has likely far more calories than the half a watermelon or th- the few pieces of watermelon, whatever you're eating of the watermelon.

    29. TNTrevor Noah30:32

        Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

    30. JKDr. Jessica Knurick30:33

        Um, so, so, so that's really what you're looking at.
17. 32:25 – 34:36

    Macronutrients 101: Why You Need Carbs and Fats

    1. TNTrevor Noah32:25

       is, this is what people need to learn. I, I-

    2. EUEugene32:26

       Yeah?

    3. JKDr. Jessica Knurick32:26

       Yeah

    4. TNTrevor Noah32:26

       ... genuinely... Yeah, okay.

    5. JKDr. Jessica Knurick32:27

       So there's, what, we have macronutrients and micronutrients.

    6. TNTrevor Noah32:30

       Okay.

    7. JKDr. Jessica Knurick32:30

       Micronutrients are vitamins and minerals, right?

    8. TNTrevor Noah32:32

       Got it.

    9. JKDr. Jessica Knurick32:32

       Vitamin C, vitamin D, whatever it is. Macronutrients are calorie-containing nutrients.

    10. TNTrevor Noah32:37

        Mm.

    11. JKDr. Jessica Knurick32:37

        So that's protein, carbohydrates, and fat. Those are the, those are the three, like-

    12. TNTrevor Noah32:42

        Got it

    13. JKDr. Jessica Knurick32:42

        ... prot- So, so everything you eat is comprised of i- and/or protein, carbohydrates-

    14. TNTrevor Noah32:49

        Got it

    15. JKDr. Jessica Knurick32:49

        ... fats.

    16. TNTrevor Noah32:49

        Got it.

    17. EUEugene32:49

        And, and two out of those three-

    18. JKDr. Jessica Knurick32:50

        And those all have calories

    19. EUEugene32:51

        ... okay. Two out of those three have been demonized.

    20. JKDr. Jessica Knurick32:54

        Except with-

    21. EUEugene32:55

        Carbs and fat.

    22. JKDr. Jessica Knurick32:56

        And we-

    23. TNTrevor Noah32:56

        Yes.

    24. JKDr. Jessica Knurick32:56

        Yeah, and we need all of them. They're all very important.

    25. TNTrevor Noah32:59

        Okay.

    26. JKDr. Jessica Knurick33:00

        Yeah, they all play roles in our, in our physiology.

    27. TNTrevor Noah33:01

        So if you were advising somebody on their diets and they said, "I'm staying away from carbohydrates-

    28. JKDr. Jessica Knurick33:06

        Uh-huh

    29. TNTrevor Noah33:06

        ... and fats," you would be not happy?

    30. JKDr. Jessica Knurick33:09

        No, because you cannot eat 100% protein diet.
18. 34:36 – 35:55

    The Problem with "Meat-Only" Carnivore Diets

    1. TNTrevor Noah34:36

       When we, when we look at food labels, how are we able to discern any of this ourselves? So, you know, I know there's that, like, simple rule that they give you where they say, "If you wanna stay healthy, stay on the outside of a grocery store."

    2. JKDr. Jessica Knurick34:48

       Yeah.

    3. EUEugene34:48

       Wow.

    4. TNTrevor Noah34:49

       And they go like, "Just never go in."

    5. EUEugene34:50

       Mm-hmm.

    6. TNTrevor Noah34:51

       "So stay on the perimeter-

    7. EUEugene34:52

       Mm-hmm

    8. TNTrevor Noah34:52

       ... and then leave."

    9. EUEugene34:53

       Mm-hmm.

    10. TNTrevor Noah34:54

        "And they say you will be healthier."

    11. EUEugene34:55

        Mm-hmm.

    12. TNTrevor Noah34:56

        Right? But, but if people are looking at a package, how do you know when the thing is or isn't bad? Because I, I remember once seeing, um, um, RFK was talking about, like, ingredients in food, and he was like, and he was like, "Oh, look at the back label." And I had to read the subtitles. [laughs]

    13. EUEugene35:13

        [laughs] I was, I was like, "Sticky Lizard, is that you?"

    14. TNTrevor Noah35:15

        No, and he would... And then he was, like, talking about the thing. And he said like, "Uh, this is, what is this? What is this? What?" And, and then-

    15. EUEugene35:22

        Mm

    16. TNTrevor Noah35:22

        ... there was scientists who came on and said, "No, that's just the scientific name for vitamin C."

    17. JKDr. Jessica Knurick35:27

        No, it was riboflavin, I think, in that video.

    18. TNTrevor Noah35:29

        Yeah.

    19. JKDr. Jessica Knurick35:29

        Yeah.

    20. TNTrevor Noah35:29

        And it was like, "Oh, no, that's just the scientific name for s- for salt."

    21. JKDr. Jessica Knurick35:33

        Mm-hmm.

    22. TNTrevor Noah35:33

        "And that's the scientific..." So-

    23. EUEugene35:35

        Mm

    24. TNTrevor Noah35:36

        ... like, h- is, is there a shortcut, or is there a way to know what, like, the colloquial word is versus the scientific word? Or, like, how, how, how are people supposed to know this? 'Cause it all seems like it's poison-

    25. EUEugene35:49

        Yeah

    26. TNTrevor Noah35:49

        ... when you read it on a bag, but then some of it is not.

    27. JKDr. Jessica Knurick35:52

        Yeah.

    28. TNTrevor Noah35:52

        And then some of it may be.

19. 35:55 – 39:50

    How to Read a Nutrition Label Without Getting Overwhelmed

    1. JKDr. Jessica Knurick35:55

       So w- when you're looking at a nutrition label... And this is why, um, like, I'm a big advocate of front-of-package labeling, which is, like, more clear for people to really understand, oh, this is high in sugar, or this is high in fat.

    2. TNTrevor Noah36:05

       Yeah.

    3. JKDr. Jessica Knurick36:05

       Just so people are more aware. Right now, we don't have that, but they're working on it. But, um, we have labels, and you'll always be able to see the amount of calories, the amount of protein and carbohydrates and fats, um, and then an ingredient list.

    4. TNTrevor Noah36:17

       Right.

    5. JKDr. Jessica Knurick36:17

       And so, you know, it depends on what someone's goal is really. Like, if you're looking at a label... I don't actually look at labels much myself.

    6. TNTrevor Noah36:25

       Oh.

    7. JKDr. Jessica Knurick36:26

       Um, because I kind of, you know, I, I, I don't eat a t- ton of, like, prepackaged food, but the pa- prepackaged food I eat, you know, if I'm buying, like, crackers or something, you can look at it if you want to and, like, look at how much fat a cracker has, and then you can compare it to another cracker that has a bit lower fat. Um, but, you know, if, if you are just kind of, like, shopping for yourself, um- I don't, the label, the label can give you, you know, s- the way that the ingredients label is, is that it's, the first ingredient is the largest in the, in the food.

    8. TNTrevor Noah36:58

       Okay.

    9. JKDr. Jessica Knurick36:58

       And then it, it goes down from there. And so a lot of times in the ingredient list it's, like, vitamins and minerals, and there's a lot of them.

    10. TNTrevor Noah37:04

        Yeah.

    11. JKDr. Jessica Knurick37:04

        Especially, like, wheat products, 'cause we, um, fortify our wheat here, and so they have, like, different B vitamins in them. Um, so a lot of times it can s- feel very overwhelming to see, like, a big, long ingredient list.

    12. TNTrevor Noah37:15

        [sighs]

    13. JKDr. Jessica Knurick37:15

        But it's not as overwhelming as one might think.

    14. TNTrevor Noah37:17

        That's interesting.

    15. JKDr. Jessica Knurick37:18

        Yeah.

    16. TNTrevor Noah37:18

        Because it's actually just contained in the food, 'cause that's how the food was made.

    17. JKDr. Jessica Knurick37:22

        Yeah.

    18. TNTrevor Noah37:22

        Like, the, the, the actual...

    19. JKDr. Jessica Knurick37:23

        Mm-hmm.

    20. TNTrevor Noah37:23

        Yeah, you see, I didn't know that about wheat in that way.

    21. JKDr. Jessica Knurick37:25

        We fortify and we fortify with, like, vitamins, um-

    22. TNTrevor Noah37:27

        Right, right, right

    23. JKDr. Jessica Knurick37:28

        ... and minerals in the, in the wheat.

    24. EUEugene37:30

        So you'd find that people who work out will have a pre-workout meal and a post-workout meal sometimes. Maybe it's a shake, maybe it's a salad, whatever it is. The average person who doesn't work out, do you have to be conscious about if you're gonna have maybe a busy day and you're gonna work, you're gonna walk, like, maybe four miles today, can you specifically look into your ca- pantry or your fridge and go, "I'm gonna eat like this because I'm gonna be active," versus, "I know I'm not gonna get out the house for the next four days, so eating this might be bad for me."

    25. JKDr. Jessica Knurick37:59

        In terms of the amount that they're eating?

    26. EUEugene38:00

        In terms of the kind of food and the amount that they're eating.

    27. JKDr. Jessica Knurick38:03

        Uh, they're, so they're going for a walk for f-

    28. EUEugene38:04

        Yeah, let's say I know that-

    29. JKDr. Jessica Knurick38:05

        A four-mile walk?

    30. EUEugene38:05

        ... this week I'm gonna, I'm gonna walk.
20. 39:50 – 45:16

    The Psychology of Eating: Postpartum Anxiety & Food Fear

    1. TNTrevor Noah39:50

       interesting that you said that. Do you think there needs to be an overlap in how we talk about these subjects?

    2. JKDr. Jessica Knurick39:54

       Mm.

    3. TNTrevor Noah39:54

       Because for a long time, experts have always, like, stayed in their lane.

    4. JKDr. Jessica Knurick39:58

       Yeah.

    5. TNTrevor Noah39:58

       And I mean, like, just stayed in their lane.

    6. JKDr. Jessica Knurick40:01

       Yeah.

    7. TNTrevor Noah40:01

       You know?

    8. JKDr. Jessica Knurick40:02

       Mm-hmm.

    9. TNTrevor Noah40:02

       They'll go like, "No, no, I'm a bone doctor." And you're like, "But are you a doctor though?" They're like, "Yes, of bones." You're like, "But can you tell me what's..." They're like, "No."

    10. JKDr. Jessica Knurick40:10

        Mm.

    11. TNTrevor Noah40:10

        "Bones."

    12. JKDr. Jessica Knurick40:11

        Mm-hmm.

    13. TNTrevor Noah40:12

        And I'm not saying they shouldn't do that, but it, it almost feels like w- then the gaps open up for the people who are like, "Oh, I can tell you about bones and more."

    14. JKDr. Jessica Knurick40:20

        Yeah.

    15. TNTrevor Noah40:20

        And those people may not be the experts, you know? Uh, like I've, I've seen a bunch of your videos where, for instance, you're talking to moms. And I understand why, because you told us the personal connection you have with misinformation online to moms. But I've, I've noticed that you, you get into the emotional side of things. You don't just say, "Here's the facts."

    16. JKDr. Jessica Knurick40:38

        Mm.

    17. TNTrevor Noah40:38

        "Here are the..." Yeah. You'll say, like, "I know you're scared," or, "Hey, it might be scary when you hear," or, "When you... You might be worried about that," or-

    18. JKDr. Jessica Knurick40:45

        Mm

    19. TNTrevor Noah40:45

        ... "Here's..." You feel like you want to... When did, when did you decide, or why do you think it's important to, to make that shift and expand beyond, like, just the literature and the science and include the human on the other side of the information?

    20. JKDr. Jessica Knurick40:58

        I think I benefit from my audience and the, the conversations that I have, like, in my DMs, which I, which I actually do engage with quite often, and, and hearing how much stress and anxiety and, and food anxiety-

    21. TNTrevor Noah41:12

        Mm

    22. JKDr. Jessica Knurick41:12

        ... um, many of these women have. And, and again, I went through this life stage of pregnancy and postpartum, and I actually, with my second I had pretty bad postpartum anxiety. And so, um, I, it was important to, it's, I mean, I, I kind of lived it. And so I understand how they are feeling.

    23. TNTrevor Noah41:26

        Yeah.

    24. JKDr. Jessica Knurick41:26

        And I think that that gives me a lot of empathy for what's, what they're, what they're f- going through. Um, and so that's actually why I also am, like, so committed to kind of correcting some of this misinformation, particularly-

    25. TNTrevor Noah41:39

        Yeah

    26. JKDr. Jessica Knurick41:39

        ... that that's targeted at new moms and young moms.

    27. TNTrevor Noah41:41

        Right.

    28. JKDr. Jessica Knurick41:41

        Because, because anxiety is really high. And so I hear from women all the time in my DMs about how much food anxiety they have and how they're scared to eat anything, and how-

    29. TNTrevor Noah41:48

        Oh, mm

    30. JKDr. Jessica Knurick41:49

        ... you know, because that's, that's what the al- If you get into a particular algorithm on social media and you just keep seeing the same things over and over, and that's what plays really well to social media algorithms, are these conspiratorial kind of c- really sensational claims, um, it can be really problematic. And so I think it's really important to me when I'm presenting information to meet people where they are and, and kind of, like, bridge that gap so then they'll be more open to kind of hearing the information that I'm providing and, and the data that I'm providing. [upbeat music]
21. 45:16 – 49:44

    Fact-Checking the "Red Dye 40 is Banned in Europe" Myth

    1. JKDr. Jessica Knurick45:16

       time?

    2. TNTrevor Noah45:16

       Do the other people ever respond back to you? Like, w- because you're out there saying, "This is false. This is fake." Do those people ever come back at you?

    3. JKDr. Jessica Knurick45:25

       Um, I mean, it's happened a few times.

    4. TNTrevor Noah45:27

       Yeah?

    5. JKDr. Jessica Knurick45:27

       Usually they just block me.

    6. TNTrevor Noah45:29

       Oh, lazy.

    7. JKDr. Jessica Knurick45:30

       [laughs]

    8. TNTrevor Noah45:31

       So they don't, like, try and challenge you at all?

    9. JKDr. Jessica Knurick45:33

       Not usually, no.

    10. TNTrevor Noah45:34

        Ah, man. I, I always-

    11. JKDr. Jessica Knurick45:35

        Sometimes, though.

    12. TNTrevor Noah45:36

        Oh, yeah?

    13. JKDr. Jessica Knurick45:36

        Sometimes. Yeah, sometimes they refuse to, like, accept what I've said too, or they'll just kind of, like, dig in. Um, just depends on who it is, I suppose.

    14. TNTrevor Noah45:44

        So in that type of scenario, when someone is claiming to be an expert and another person is an expert- Is an expert, mm-hmm ... how do you then show a neutral observer where the truth actually lies?

    15. JKDr. Jessica Knurick45:57

        Yeah. Yeah, so I, um, I don't rely on them to just believe me because I'm me. I, that's, that's why I use so many, like, references in my videos, and I'll show, like... If I, if I tell y- For example, um, a lot of people on social media are saying, like, s- synthetic food dyes are banned in Europe.

    16. TNTrevor Noah46:14

        Yes.

    17. JKDr. Jessica Knurick46:14

        Right?

    18. TNTrevor Noah46:15

        Yeah.

    19. JKDr. Jessica Knurick46:15

        Like, you've probably heard it.

    20. TNTrevor Noah46:16

        Uh-huh.

    21. JKDr. Jessica Knurick46:16

        Red Dye 40 is banned in Europe.

    22. TNTrevor Noah46:17

        Mm-hmm.

    23. JKDr. Jessica Knurick46:18

        So I will... And I, I think that's a harmful narrative, because what it does is it kind of, like, plays into this idea that, like, America is poisoning us-

    24. TNTrevor Noah46:25

        Mm

    25. JKDr. Jessica Knurick46:25

        ... and all these other countries care.

    26. TNTrevor Noah46:27

        Mm-hmm.

    27. JKDr. Jessica Knurick46:27

        Like, their scientists care, and their regulatory agencies care, and they're banning these things, and that's just not true. And so what I'll do is I'll show, you know, all five synthetic food dyes that are used in the United States predominantly, which is red f- uh, Red 40, Yellow 5, Yellow 6, Blue 1 and Blue 2, have all been deemed safe by EFSA in the European Union. All of them.

    28. TNTrevor Noah46:46

        Oh, they have?

    29. JKDr. Jessica Knurick46:47

        All of them.

    30. TNTrevor Noah46:47

        Huh.
22. 49:44 – 55:38

    Are Seed Oils Toxic? Sifting Through the Science

    1. JKDr. Jessica Knurick49:44

       that's the best kind of misinformation. You, you have a little bit of truth, and that's what gets people a- l- that's what brings people in.

    2. TNTrevor Noah49:49

       Yeah.

    3. JKDr. Jessica Knurick49:50

       Right? It's like, "Oh, they're- they're helping." Even if it's like 80% of the time they're helping.

    4. TNTrevor Noah49:54

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    5. JKDr. Jessica Knurick49:54

       Right? Some of these people. And it's like they're giving out good information, but it's the 20% of the time where they're completely manipulating the narrative and then, you know, taking advantage of you and the narrative, um, that's really the biggest problem. So yeah, I think, I think you're right, there is a problem right now because, um, much of the misinformation we see, which is sometimes why it's the h- so hard to kind of combat it and, and, like, explain the nuance because there's, there's overlap there.

    6. TNTrevor Noah50:18

       Mm.

    7. JKDr. Jessica Knurick50:18

       There's like, we, yes, this is true, and here is how that is being mani- manipulated.

    8. TNTrevor Noah50:23

       Yeah, because you now have, you have to go yes first.

    9. JKDr. Jessica Knurick50:26

       Yeah.

    10. TNTrevor Noah50:26

        And people are like, "Oh, so you do agree?" And then you're like, "But, but, but..." And now-

    11. EUEugene50:29

        Yeah

    12. TNTrevor Noah50:29

        ... now it's too late. Like seed oils is a good one.

    13. EUEugene50:31

        Mm-hmm.

    14. TNTrevor Noah50:32

        That, that's like one of those myths that also doesn't go away. Do, do you, do, do you, do you ever see these where no matter what happens they just keep coming back, they just keep coming back, they just... So, like seed oils is a good one.

    15. JKDr. Jessica Knurick50:44

        Yeah.

    16. TNTrevor Noah50:44

        Um-

    17. EUEugene50:44

        Sunflower oil versus canola oil.

    18. TNTrevor Noah50:46

        It, just seed oils in South A-

    19. JKDr. Jessica Knurick50:48

        Those are both seed oils

    20. EUEugene50:48

        ... in South Africa, that's what's going on now.

    21. TNTrevor Noah50:50

        Oh, that's the fight in South Africa?

    22. JKDr. Jessica Knurick50:51

        Oh.

    23. EUEugene50:51

        Yes, 'cause they're going, "Canola is, canola oil is used for things that you wouldn't wanna know about." And then people for a long time were using canola oil over sunflower oil.

    24. TNTrevor Noah50:59

        Huh.

    25. EUEugene51:00

        Yeah.

    26. TNTrevor Noah51:00

        And now the switch is people are going back to sunflower.

    27. EUEugene51:01

        Now everywhere you go, canola oil, canola oil, canola oil, canola, canola. So there's a big drive, I think it's a fight back obviously from the sunflower industry-

    28. JKDr. Jessica Knurick51:08

        Mm

    29. EUEugene51:08

        ... that's going, "You need to use sunflower oil. You need to use sunflower oil." So a lot of people now have moved there. Avocado oil hasn't caught on that much, and obviously olive oil hasn't caught on that much, but the big battle right now in South Africa is between canola oil and olive oil.

    30. TNTrevor Noah51:21

        So are, are seed oils-
23. 55:38 – 58:29

    The Marketing of "Healthy": Organic, Non-GMO, and Protein Claims

    1. JKDr. Jessica Knurick55:38

       distinction.

    2. TNTrevor Noah55:38

       But I think to Eugene's point- A- and I mean, we've seen this. It, it's not even a conspiracy. We've seen how we are also, like you're fighting with, uh, you know, uh, misinformation.

    3. JKDr. Jessica Knurick55:50

       Mm-hmm.

    4. TNTrevor Noah55:50

       But we also forget that there's a company in the background somewhere, there's a food lobby somewhere that's trying to push something-

    5. JKDr. Jessica Knurick55:56

       Mm-hmm

    6. TNTrevor Noah55:56

       ... to push something else out, to push something in. Like, look at how many years fat was bad.

    7. JKDr. Jessica Knurick56:01

       Mm-hmm.

    8. TNTrevor Noah56:01

       And then we found out, remember in that investigation where the, like the sugar lobby worked really well-

    9. JKDr. Jessica Knurick56:06

       Mm-hmm

    10. TNTrevor Noah56:06

        ... to vilify fat and carbohydrates.

    11. JKDr. Jessica Knurick56:08

        Mm-hmm.

    12. TNTrevor Noah56:09

        And then only now are we going, "Oh, damn, sugar, you know." We didn't realize that sugar was, copious amounts of sugar. 'Cause again, nothing is just bad.

    13. JKDr. Jessica Knurick56:17

        Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    14. TNTrevor Noah56:18

        But sugar was the thing we should've been looking for in excessive amounts. But they, "It's fat-free."

    15. JKDr. Jessica Knurick56:22

        You're right.

    16. TNTrevor Noah56:22

        If it was fat-free, it was good for you.

    17. JKDr. Jessica Knurick56:24

        Mm-hmm, yeah.

    18. TNTrevor Noah56:24

        And you're like, "I can eat as much of it as I want 'cause it's fat-free, so I will not get fat." You know?

    19. JKDr. Jessica Knurick56:28

        Yeah. I mean, it's important. A- a- and I think you're, you're drawing an important distinction based on what, what are corporations going to do? First of all, the media is gonna sensationalize, like, science findings, right?

    20. TNTrevor Noah56:38

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JKDr. Jessica Knurick56:38

        A study, they're gonna sens- sensationalize the findings. But then corporations, they're gonna take any little thing and try to spin it as the, like, the best thing for them, right? So they're, and they'll use it in marketing. So if, you know, if there's a study that comes out that shows something good about blueberries, right, like, a product that has blueberries is gonna put that on their label-

    22. TNTrevor Noah56:57

        Yeah, they will

    23. JKDr. Jessica Knurick56:57

        ... and be like, "This is the best thing that's ever happened," right?

    24. TNTrevor Noah57:00

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JKDr. Jessica Knurick57:00

        And so, so the problem is we need to be better at regulating those marketing claims. And, and so there are, there are s- quite a few claims that are regulated. Um, I think they just added, like, healthy last year. But there's quite a few that aren't, so they, they can put it on the label and just kind of like as a marketing tool for-

    26. TNTrevor Noah57:17

        Yeah

    27. JKDr. Jessica Knurick57:17

        ... for the company.

    28. TNTrevor Noah57:18

        There's also a bun-

    29. JKDr. Jessica Knurick57:19

        You know, protein. Protein is that.

    30. TNTrevor Noah57:20

        Oh yeah, proteins having-
24. 58:29 – 1:04:15

    Why True Experts Aren't Afraid to Say "I Don't Know"

    1. TNTrevor Noah58:29

       understanding what a red flag is, is experts will tell you where their expertise ends. So you've said it, you know, we've had a, an, a, um, a neuroscientist on the podcast. We... And they'll go-

    2. JKDr. Jessica Knurick58:41

       Hmm

    3. TNTrevor Noah58:41

       ... "Uh, actually, I don't know because that part I don't, I think this 'cause I know that part of it, but I don't know about this completely." And I wonder if that's also something-

    4. JKDr. Jessica Knurick58:51

       Yeah

    5. TNTrevor Noah58:51

       ... we should look at as a, as a red flag-

    6. JKDr. Jessica Knurick58:53

       Red flag, mm-hmm

    7. TNTrevor Noah58:53

       ... is if the person is all-knowing about everything all the time, something's fishy.

    8. JKDr. Jessica Knurick58:59

       Yeah, I think that is a good, good use of red flags on social media. Yeah, if somebody is, like, a- appearing to be a s- particularly, like, if they say they're a doctor and then they don't put their credentials in the actual, like, profile-

    9. TNTrevor Noah59:12

       Oh, yeah, okay

    10. JKDr. Jessica Knurick59:12

        ... so they'll call themselves Dr. So-and-So, but there'll be no credentials, um, usually I have found that they are practicing outside of their scope of practice.

    11. TNTrevor Noah59:20

        Yeah.

    12. JKDr. Jessica Knurick59:20

        They're just... You know, you'll look at their page and they're an expert in nutrition and an expert in brain science and an expert in this and that. And so, um, that is a good thing to, I think, to look at.

    13. TNTrevor Noah59:28

        Yeah, like, I've always wondered, how does somebody who has, is just, let's say they're, they're a doctor of whatever, is, medical doctor or they've got a doctorate so they can say doctor.

    14. JKDr. Jessica Knurick59:39

        Hmm.

    15. TNTrevor Noah59:39

        How do they know about, like, 5G and Wi-Fi? I'm always, uh, 'cause I go, uh, aren't these two things separate?

    16. JKDr. Jessica Knurick59:46

        Hmm.

    17. TNTrevor Noah59:47

        And again, maybe I'm wrong, but I, I don't know that in medical school you're learning about r- the frequencies and radio waves and r- you, you, do you know what I mean? But I, but I, like, how do you deal with those types of claims? Do you, do you then pass it off to somebody? Do you, you know, like, what do you, what do you do with that when somebody says to you, um, "Oh, uh, Dr. Jessica, this is, this thing here is also, does this cause that?" What do you say to them in, in that instance? Do you go, "Well, I just don't know. Move on to someone else"? Or have you, like, formed, like, a little team of experts who you can pass it on to?

    18. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:00:16

        I have, yeah. So if somebody asks me a question that's just outside my scope of practice, they, they do that quite often with, like, um, like, in, uh, beauty toxins.

    19. TNTrevor Noah1:00:24

        Okay, yeah, yeah.

    20. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:00:25

        So, like, you know, the clean beauty movement.

    21. TNTrevor Noah1:00:27

        Yes.

    22. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:00:27

        And that's just not my area. I, they ask me, like, "What about this ingredient in lotion?" I have absolutely no idea. So I have, like, cosmetic chemists that I'll refer people to.

    23. TNTrevor Noah1:00:34

        Oh, I love that.

    24. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:00:35

        Yeah. So, so that, it's helpful to have, like, a little network of people who are outside your area.

    25. TNTrevor Noah1:00:40

        Oh.

    26. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:00:40

        Yeah.

    27. TNTrevor Noah1:00:40

        Almost like a Avengers.

    28. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:00:42

        Yeah. [laughs]

    29. EUEugene1:00:42

        Avengers of health.

    30. TNTrevor Noah1:00:43

        Yeah.
25. 1:04:15 – 1:49:13

    The Truth About Supplements: Essential Vitamins vs. Expensive Urine

    1. TNTrevor Noah1:04:15

       that you're giving it to people for free. You know? Th- this is something that we don't focus enough on in, in society-

    2. EUEugene1:04:21

       Yeah

    3. TNTrevor Noah1:04:21

       ... and it's that you have to pay for the truth-

    4. EUEugene1:04:24

       Yeah

    5. TNTrevor Noah1:04:24

       ... but lies are free.

    6. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:04:25

       Hm.

    7. TNTrevor Noah1:04:25

       You know what I mean?

    8. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:04:26

       Yeah.

    9. TNTrevor Noah1:04:26

       Like, there's no website that has lies that you have to pay for. Search anything online, search about any story, any news article, any health article, you name it.

    10. EUEugene1:04:37

        Mm.

    11. TNTrevor Noah1:04:38

        The arti- the news, the websites and the pages that are fake-

    12. EUEugene1:04:42

        Yeah

    13. TNTrevor Noah1:04:43

        ... are free.

    14. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:04:44

        You're right.

    15. EUEugene1:04:44

        Yeah.

    16. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:04:44

        Yeah.

    17. TNTrevor Noah1:04:44

        And then when it's a real thing, they'll be like, "Would you like to pay for the truth?"

    18. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:04:47

        Right.

    19. TNTrevor Noah1:04:47

        And I'm like, "Yeah, but if it's so important, why..." And don't get me wrong, I under-

    20. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:04:50

        Like The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. Yeah

    21. TNTrevor Noah1:04:51

        ... exactly. And, and don't get me wrong, I understand that there are-

    22. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:04:54

        And they have to pay their people.

    23. TNTrevor Noah1:04:55

        Yeah, they have to pay people, et cetera. But it is sad that we, we live in a world... And, and that's why I also appreciate that, because this is not your job, and yet you are giving people education that they wouldn't otherwise be able to access if they weren't in the institutions that you're in.

    24. EUEugene1:05:10

        Yeah.

    25. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:05:11

        Yeah, yeah. I mean, y- you're, you're bringing up a point that's kind of, um... It- it's g- it's, like, nuanced because we have to also figure out a way to make it sustainable for people to do.

    26. TNTrevor Noah1:05:21

        Yeah, yeah.

    27. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:05:21

        Like, like science communicators and things like that. And so, you know, we're, there still has to be conversation about how to do that. But yeah, I, I think that it's really important and, and that's why... I mean, I have a Substack that it, I never put things behind paywalls and that's why. Like, I want people to have access to, to the information, um, because I think that that's really important and we, they shouldn't... You know, we, you don't want to put things behind paywalls if you really want people to understand them. But I also understand the other side, that people have to make a living, you know?

    28. TNTrevor Noah1:05:47

        Yeah. I feel like in a perfect world-

    29. JKDr. Jessica Knurick1:05:48

        So it's like a nuance

    30. TNTrevor Noah1:05:48

        ... that, that sort of be like a fund maybe or a-

Episode duration: 1:49:15