Harris v. Trump: The Week Before with Tressie McMillan Cottom | What Now? with Trevor Noah Podcast

Trevor Noah 0:00 Maybe I'm, maybe I'm too, like, Halloweened from everything that's going on. But I, I, I feel like you can, you can apply it to everything right now. 'Cause what you've just said applies in the same way. Politics used to be about a moment in time. You wear your costume. What are you going as, right?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 0:17 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 0:17 "Oh, I'm going as a ghost," "Oh, I'm going as a," whatever, right? And then now it's people are wearing their costumes 24/7, 365, and then America wonders why it feels so spooky and eerie-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 0:30 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 0:30 ... all of the time. [upbeat music] This is What Now? With Trevor Noah. [upbeat music] So Tressie McMillan Cottom, Christiana Mbakwe Medina, who's winning the election?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 0:53 [laughs] Not us.

Trevor Noah 0:56 [laughs]

Tressie McMillan Cottom 0:58 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 0:59 Can I tell you, I know that America's always on edge when it's election time, but it feels like, and I don't know if this is true, but it feels like it is f- it's becoming more and more on edge from election to election. Like, this is the strangest lead up to an election ever because I don't think anybody knows what's happening or not happening, who's winning or who's not winning. Every poll has Trump up or down, Kamala Harris, like, winning everything or losing it all. W- like, in this moment in time, in this moment in time, I just wanna know, let's start with this. How are you feeling?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 1:36 I've got so many messages in my phone, uh, from the last few days of people, uh, texting me to tell me, uh, how stressed out they are, and I would point out to the audience, I'm a sociologist. That's not what I do at all.

Trevor Noah 1:50 [laughs]

Tressie McMillan Cottom 1:50 But that's how desperate people are. They're just, like, contacting anyone that they think can help. Um, you know, some of this is the hangover from the fact that we can't believe losing the last time didn't get rid of Donald Trump.

Trevor Noah 2:04 Right.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 2:05 That's what I think-

Speaker 2:05 Yeah

Tressie McMillan Cottom 2:06 ... some of this is. We thought we'd pushed him off of the stage. He's proving to be far more resilient than I think anybody imagined. And so it feels like we didn't really get a break from him. Uh, and that's what I think some of this anxiety is about.

Speaker 2:20 Yeah. I don't know what to believe. I've kind of disassociated over the last, I don't know, six weeks or so. I just try to talk to people who make me feel happy. I honestly can't do four more years of him. Like, I don't have the emotional stamina. He has the stamina. He could go on forever. But, like, the idea-

Trevor Noah 2:37 He, he's got that dictator blood, baby.

Speaker 2:39 He, he's got-

Trevor Noah 2:39 That's what he has

Speaker 2:39 ... he's like, he will go until he dies.

Trevor Noah 2:40 If, if you're from Africa, you know exactly what he has.

Speaker 2:43 He [laughs] yeah.

Trevor Noah 2:43 I remember watching Robert Mugabe and I would be like, "This guy will go on forever." I remember when he beat cancer.

Speaker 2:49 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 2:49 And I was like, "Damn, even cancer was like, 'I can't do this anymore.'"

Speaker 2:52 Yeah, yeah. Cancer-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 2:53 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 2:53 Yeah. Cancer got Ro- Robert Mugabe. Mugabe didn't get cancer. Like-

Trevor Noah 2:57 Yeah

Speaker 2:57 ... with those type of people.

Trevor Noah 2:58 Yeah.

Speaker 2:58 That's what it is. But, um, and I feel like whether he wins or he loses, he's not going anywhere. I think that's the thing that's kind of disheartening. So I'm like, do we just get another four years so he can't be president again? It's like, the, I'm like, that's the worst case scenario for me.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 3:11 No.

Speaker 3:11 I know, Tressie. This is, this is how I've been kind of speculating to myself. Um, but then I'm like, why is it even a race? Like, whatever you think about her, I think she's abundantly more qualified than he is, and saner, and less of a criminal.

Trevor Noah 3:25 You know, I've, I've been watching-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 3:26 Yeah, yeah

Trevor Noah 3:26 ... a ton of, um, uh, scary movies. Obviously it's, it's Halloween, right? Which is the perfect time, I feel like, to have it right before the election. America knows how to plan its holidays out. So I, so I, I'm terrified of scary movies, and I grew up in a, in a world where there was witchcraft. And so for me-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 3:43 Yeah [laughs]

Trevor Noah 3:43 ... it's not even, like, a joke. But-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 3:45 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 3:46 ... I decided this year, I was like, "Let me watch a few. Let me see if I've, like, you know, if I'm immune to it." Turns out I'm not. I'm still terrified.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 3:52 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 3:52 But it was amazing to see how horror movies follow the exact same formula that America's politics and Donald Trump have sort of followed. Like, like what you just said now, Chris- Christiana, is the end of every smile movie. It's where somebody just goes, like, at some point they just accept it and they're like, "All right, well, take over my body, and then at least this is the end," and that's it.

Speaker 4:14 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 4:14 Like, it literally, it literally feels like some people are willing or would rather just have it be over than to keep on fighting. Which is a, which is an understandable feeling.

Speaker 4:25 I was optimistic. Remember when we spoke to Tressie last? I was just like, "Yeah, she can do this."

Tressie McMillan Cottom 4:29 Yes.

Speaker 4:29 She's like, "Ah." And then it's like, actually-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 4:31 Yeah

Speaker 4:31 ... it's all my friends who are Democrats who are making me scared.

Trevor Noah 4:34 Tressie, as a sociologist, help, help me understand this. How is it, or is it normal that the political parties themselves have started to come with a personality type, not just a political-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 4:50 Mm

Trevor Noah 4:50 ... affiliation? And I'll, I'll tell you why I ask this question, right? Over the past few weeks we've been watching, like, the rallies as the race intensifies. We've been seeing people online. But listening to what you just said now, Christiana, is something that I've noticed across the board. Democrats are scared before the election. This is the same as before Biden, by the way. Democrats are scared before the election, or liberals or l- whatever you wanna call yourself. And conservative people are like, "We got it in the bag. This is the greatest moment of our lifetime. We're doing it, baby"

Speaker 5:20 You know, when I hear my president and our president, Donald Trump, speak, he sounds for real, brother. He sounds like he has a heart of gold that's all for the USA.

Speaker 5:32 [cheering] .

Speaker 5:34 But when I hear Kamala speak-

Speaker 5:38 Oh.

Speaker 5:38 ... it sounds, yeah, it sounds like a script from Hollywood with a really, really bad actress.

Speaker 5:48 [cheering] .

Trevor Noah 5:50 Is, is there something that explains this? Because I don't know another country where I've seen this, and I would love to know, Tressie, if you've given any thought to, like, personality going with a political party. I don't understand it.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 6:02 Yes. I mean, there's a reason why people Increasingly over the last, like, 30 years or so, people who study this kind of, like, political behavior talk about how our political affiliation has become our identity. Something that I found personally strange, by the way. I grew up in a politically active family left over from, like, the civil rights movement and the Black Power movement. It's not that we didn't participate in electoral politics. We did, right? We did Get Out the Vote stuff, but I don't remember anyone calling themselves a Democrat-

Trevor Noah 6:35 Mm

Tressie McMillan Cottom 6:35 ... as an identity between elections, right? Uh, what has happened is that people think of themselves as their political affiliation now all year round [laughs] all year round. And so because it's become an identity, identity's like other identities, right? Identities are attract- attracted to personalities, and this is coincidentally something that I think Donald Trump understood intuitively, uh, that Democrats, uh, did not. He understood what people wanted from politics, which was different from what they said they wanted, [laughs] right? People want to go into a political, into the voting booth and into a political party-

Trevor Noah 7:15 Mm-hmm

Tressie McMillan Cottom 7:15 ... feeling like a member of the party, not as someone who is responsible for democracy or, [laughs] you know, responsible for freedom and all of that. And what Donald Trump knows how to do is appeal to your identity as opposed to, like, your morality. Liberals are still stru- stuck in this cycle of, like, wanting to appeal to our higher, better angels. Um, and frankly, in a, [laughs] in a consumer-driven, identity-driven society, there is no higher angel. There is no better angel. People just want the softest, cheapest bread.

Trevor Noah 7:46 Damn.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 7:46 Right? Like, nobody wants whole grain bread. We want Wonder Bread [laughs] for 1.99 that will always taste like the Wonder Bread we got last time.

Trevor Noah 7:56 Mm-hmm.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 7:56 And Donald Trump understands that, and he's like, "I'll give you all the Wonder Bread you want."

Trevor Noah 8:00 I was thinking about this the other day. So it's weird for me. I've lived through my f- country's first democracy, like, my first, my country's first democratic elections.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 8:11 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 8:12 And one of the biggest things they told us in South Africa when the election was happening, now g- granted, I was only 10 years old, but this is how powerful the marketing campaign was. The main thing they said was, "Your vote is your secret. Your vote is your secret." Now, remember, this is a country where Black people were oppressed for, like, hundreds of years. This is the first time they're gonna g- get to vote. Black people were like, "We can tell you who we voting for." They were like, "No, no, no, no."

Tressie McMillan Cottom 8:37 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 8:38 "No. Your vote is your secret." And then they would teach us this even in school. They were like, "Your vote is your secret because it is part of keeping a society functioning well. You go into the booth, you vote, and then when you come out, you can talk about politics, but don't pel- don't tell other people who you voted for. Don't even tell your own family members."

Tressie McMillan Cottom 9:00 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 9:00 And recently I've started realizing how important that is. It's, it's weird to live in a country or in a time when people are only talking about who they voted for or who they're gonna vote for or who they think other people should be voting for. D- does this make any sense?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 9:16 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 9:17 Yeah, yeah.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 9:17 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 9:17 I feel you. But I'm just, like, if something has to be a secret, maybe I'm in mom mode now because we don't let Obi and Luna ... Our rule is no secrets 'cause, like, secrets aren't safe, right?

Trevor Noah 9:28 Oh.

Speaker 9:28 Anytime you tell a child, like, "Keep it a secret"-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 9:31 Yeah

Speaker 9:31 ... something sinister's gonna happen, right? I'm just like, "Why should it ... I- if something has to be a secret, maybe you should question why." [laughs] That's my, that's my only thing about voting. Like, I come from the other perspec- like, in England, people are, like, proudly wear the fact that they're Tories or Labour or Lib Dem or Green, and I don't think m- I guess until Brexit it wasn't as fraught.

Trevor Noah 9:54 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 9:54 Because it was just like it, it ... Your political party was a big part of your identity. Like, I don't, I'm not necessarily of the school it, it should have to be a secret.

Trevor Noah 10:03 I'm glad you brought that up. I was thinking about it, and there were two things that stuck with me. I, I don't know if these resonate with you at all. One, I thought, um, it should be your secret in a place where people have guns and shoot each other.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 10:13 [laughs] Yeah.

Trevor Noah 10:13 So that's the first thing that I thought with.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 10:15 Political violence.

Speaker 10:15 Okay. Yeah.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 10:15 That's right.

Speaker 10:16 Fair enough.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 10:16 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 10:16 Fair enough.

Trevor Noah 10:17 So in South Africa it was like your vote should be your secret because, uh, shit is crazy out here. Like, things were-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 10:23 Yeah

Trevor Noah 10:23 ... not calm-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 10:24 Mm

Trevor Noah 10:24 ... when, when we were voting for the first time. All right?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 10:27 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 10:27 The second one I was thinking about was, and this is something that I, I secretly believe might happen in this election. I think there are a lot of people who are gonna wear a certain colored hat and are going to go to certain rallies, and they're gonna-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 10:43 Mm

Trevor Noah 10:43 ... say certain things. But when they go to the voting booth and they pull that little curtain across, they might vote for themselves and for their bodies and not necessarily-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 10:54 Mm

Trevor Noah 10:54 ... to match up with their community. And that's sometimes why I think voting should be secret, is because it allows people to vote against the interest of the people they're scared of publicly being against.

Speaker 11:06 Yeah. There's a trope of, like, the Trumpy husband with the good churchgoing wife who is gonna vote for Kamala perhaps, right? But I, I'm, I guess why I'm feeling so anxious, and Tressie, you may be able to speak to this, is because I'm like, I think over the last 10 years I'm, I've ... I'm like society's just even crazier [laughs] than I thought. Like, what you said about there being, like, no higher good, I really feel that, and I think, you know, Trump's America's id and he appeals to-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 11:34 Mm

Speaker 11:34 ... people's, like, most base impulses. And I think-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 11:37 Yeah

Speaker 11:37 ... a lot of people may give into that.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 11:39 I think that's a beautiful way to put it, and I'm not saying that just because I have said the exact same thing, Christiana. I truly believe. I have also said I think Trump is our id, and the thing about the id is that it feels amazing. It feels great. [laughs] It is ultimately destructive, um, but it feels good on the way down. Um- I'm not sure either how much I, how much stock I put in this politically divided, uh, you know, husband/wife, uh, trope. Same, I think there is some truth to it, but I think that the benefit to a lot of women of being close to patriarchal power outweighs a lot of their individual fears about their loss over their bodily autonomy. I also think we can't overstate how much, especially on the conservative side, conservatives historically vote for government to re- regulate others, not themselves, right?

Trevor Noah 12:31 Mm. Damn.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 12:31 They truly believe that when they vote, uh, for something to be regulated, that it won't happen to them.

Trevor Noah 12:37 Mm.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 12:37 And so I think for a lot of women, they are voting to regulate other women. Uh, I also don't wanna let a lot of women off of the hook-

Trevor Noah 12:43 Yeah

Tressie McMillan Cottom 12:43 ... because empirically we saw how they voted, uh, last time, in particular, uh, white women. And I will say something, uh, that a friend said to me once. Uh, she turned to me and said, "Tressie, uh, crackheads don't marry non-crackheads."

Trevor Noah 12:56 [laughs]

Tressie McMillan Cottom 12:56 Like, if both people are sitting at the kitchen table, and one is extremely enthusiastically Trump, the, your safest bet here is that [laughs] they-

Trevor Noah 13:05 Yeah

Tressie McMillan Cottom 13:05 ... share this. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 13:07 Yeah. Oh.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 13:08 And, uh, yeah. You can [laughs] take that. And I, I have found that to be very helpful to keep in mind. [upbeat music]

Trevor Noah 13:15 We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break. [upbeat music]

Speaker 13:26 We could be right back to the days before Roe, the days when abortion wasn't as safe as it is today, the days when the number of mothers of color dying in childbirth was 30 to 40% higher than when it was under Roe. So to the men who love us, please [audience cheering] do not, do not put our lives in the hands of politicians, mostly men, who have no clue or do not care about what we as women are going through. Because a vote for him is a vote against us.

Speaker 14:12 The talk that's been most prominent, I think, on the Black voter side, you know, typically I'd say, especially in the Obama years, it would be talking about, like, the Black church as a voting base and just knowing the Black-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 14:24 Mm-hmm

Speaker 14:24 ... church were gonna go Democrat. And things kind of splintered in 2016 and 2020, and now a conversation that's become really prominent that I have issues with, 'cause I don't think the numbers are that significant, is Black men kind of abandoning the Democratic Party, particularly Black-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 14:40 Yeah

Speaker 14:40 ... men who aren't college educated and who are secular.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 14:42 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 14:43 And, um, are, like, may not vote for Harris, right?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 14:47 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 14:47 Do you think it's kind of being overblown, and they're going to, what many people believe, scapegoat Black men-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 14:53 Yes

Speaker 14:53 ... if Harris loses-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 14:54 Yes

Speaker 14:54 ... this election?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 14:55 [laughs]

Speaker 14:55 Or is there a significant portion of Black men who are kind of feeling-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 14:58 Mm-hmm

Speaker 14:58 ... abandoned by the Democrats?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 15:01 So I think both of those are true, but they are not at the same scale.

Speaker 15:04 Okay.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 15:04 So yes, it is empirically true. We're talking about, like, 5%, though. Um, uh, and, uh, journalist Eli Missal at The Nation recently pointed out, he was like, "Why are we talking about 5% of Black men when overwhelmingly 85 to 90% of Black Americans are still gonna vote for Kamala Harris?" And I could not sign on to that more. Uh, but there's a difference between something being, like, oh, that is statistically interesting, and it being statistically important. So like, yeah, I don't think ultimately it will be significant electorally. Now, what's interesting about that is I do think that Donald Trump has tapped into the sort of, like, patriarchal impulse of men, not just Black men, by the way. It's also true, um, for Hispanic men. It's true overwhelmingly, again, for working-class men, uh, which is this desire to see a sort of, like, um, to see themselves as economic breadwinners again. The idea that they want their moment in the sun, and Donald Trump becomes a figure saying he can, you know, show them and lead them the way. I attribute it more to the decline of the power of the Black church-

Speaker 16:05 Mm-hmm

Tressie McMillan Cottom 16:05 ... than I do of any specific appeal that Trump has, uh, to Black men.

Speaker 16:10 And, and, like, what would you say to, like, I guess the, l- the Hispanic vote I think is, like, treated like a monolith, really. Like, 'cause-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 16:17 No

Speaker 16:17 ... you know-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 16:18 Yeah

Speaker 16:18 ... Cubans in Miami are different from Dominicans in Washington Heights.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 16:22 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 16:22 And, like, they're just treated as the same.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 16:23 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 16:23 Or Mexicans in LA, they're treated as the same thing.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 16:26 Yeah.

Speaker 16:26 But the, the, the Democrats also have an issue with the Hispanic vote. Like, I think-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 16:30 Mm-hmm

Speaker 16:30 ... Trump's done a very good job of cultivating this base, and they're responding to him, and he's able to speak to them in ways that the Democrat, the Democrats aren't. But it's not, doesn't seem to be as much as a story right now anyway.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 16:45 Yes. Yeah, I agree. I think that is because we have such a clear-cut historical narrative about Black and white voters, right? That we can't deal with the sort of, like, complexities of, uh, the sort of Hispanic coalition, which as you point out, comes from very different, uh, and sometimes conflicting national origins with very different political interests, uh, that map sometimes on the race. Like, sometimes Cubans are white, and sometimes they aren't.

Speaker 17:10 Mm-hmm.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 17:10 In ways that I just think is too complicated [laughs] for-

Speaker 17:13 Yeah

Tressie McMillan Cottom 17:13 ... a country that is just still stuck, uh, on Black and white. But I do think that fundamentally, I think the int- the, the question about that is probably more interesting and potentially important given the demographic growth of, uh, the Hispanic voting base than it is, than the question about Black male voters.

Speaker 17:30 Yeah. I, I, I, I, I kept coming back to that, especially to, like, speak to, like, my, my husband's relatives, and she reads as Hispanic to [laughs] a lot of people. Um-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 17:39 Mm-hmm

Speaker 17:39 ... and I'm like, "Well, this is a missed opportunity," and I also think the Democrats, not to write their obituary yet, have missed out on capitalizing about her being Asian also. It's just something that they've-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 17:49 I think that too

Speaker 17:50 ... like, they've spent so much time defending her Blackness. They've also been-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 17:53 Yeah

Speaker 17:53 ... like, "Hey, there's, like, we could capture another vote here through her identity"

Tressie McMillan Cottom 17:58 Mm-hmm

Speaker 17:58 ... and it seems like-

Trevor Noah 17:59 But, but let me ask, let me ask you this, though. Let me ask you this. Do you not think that Kamala Harris and the Democrats as a whole have always been in, like, a lose-lose situation, right? And I, I'll tell you why they're, for me, they're always in a lose-lose situation. It's because they're a big tent party, and it's a coalition, right? So When you, when you s- when you look at, like, Donald Trump/the Republicans, it's easy to go, "What is this?" All you have to do is if you are a person of color, if you are, you know, a certain ethnicity, if you're ... All you do is you check that in at the door. You say that you're fully MAGA, fully American, and you're welcome, by the way. You are very welcome. I think this is a misconception. You're very welcome. And then the other people who come in, if they're white, they still get to come in with their grievances and be like, "I'm a white man who doesn't get-

Speaker 18:44 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 18:44 ... looked at the way I used to, and let me tell you something about what we gotta do about it." Right? You get to do that. But now when you're in, there's a singular focus and a singular idea, and what they're selling you is crystal clear. So they go, "Come here if you feel like your life's not great anymore. Come here if you feel-

Speaker 19:03 Mm

Trevor Noah 19:03 ... like you don't have a place in society anymore." It's singular, and it's clean, right?

Speaker 19:08 Each and every one of you has been loyal to your country. You have loved your country. You followed the rules. You paid your taxes. You did everything right, and the system just keeps beating you down, beating you down, and beating you down.

Trevor Noah 19:22 And if you, if you look at it on the Democrat side, I can't tell you with cryl- crystal clarity what the message is or is not or where you should ... And, and I'm not blaming it on them, and I'm not blaming it on Kamala. So if, let's, let's play all the games out. If Kamala Harris came out and really pushed on her being Asian, people would be like, "What is she doing? She's, she's neglecting the Black vote. She's a Black woman. How can you neglect such a powerful voting block?" And if she came out and then she focused on ... Then we go like, "Ah, she's not thinking of the Asians." And then if you go Hispanic, they're gonna be like, "Wow, really? We're gonna get a Black woman, and she's focusing more on Hispanic voters than she is on Black voters, like forgetting our own?" And then if she ... Like, it feels like, it feels like there's a simpler path on the Republican side than there is-

Speaker 20:07 Mm

Trevor Noah 20:07 ... on the Democratic side because the Republican side has one simple idea. And if you join the team, it's like, it's like a sports team. You wear the shirt, you cheer for us, and you forget everything that you came with, and you're in. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 20:21 Yeah. You know, I kind of disagree, and I'll say this because before-

Trevor Noah 20:25 Kind of? I'll take kind of from Christiane.

Speaker 20:27 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 20:27 I'll tell you that much.

Speaker 20:27 No, I, I really disagree. I'm just trying to be polite about it.

Trevor Noah 20:29 That means I've made some inroads. [laughs]

Speaker 20:30 I'm trying to be po- I'm trying to be polite about it.

Trevor Noah 20:31 [laughs]

Speaker 20:33 But before, um, the ascendance of Donald Trump, the Republican Party, they were publishing a bunch of papers about them and the minority vote, and they were panicked.

Trevor Noah 20:42 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 20:43 Yeah. They were like, "We're not- Yep ... reaching Black people. We're not reaching-

Trevor Noah 20:45 Yep

Speaker 20:45 ... Asians."

Trevor Noah 20:46 Exactly.

Speaker 20:47 They lost Muslims after 9/11.

Trevor Noah 20:50 Yep.

Speaker 20:50 That, like all- Mm-hmm ... the blocks that were reliable to them, they couldn't speak to them, and they still struggle with these people because these people are still with the Democrats, right? So we know, they, they know there's an issue. And Trump is a very unusual event, and I think what the Democrats have that they forget that Obama embodied is that you just need to say the fact that you have this huge tent is actually a really beneficial thing. 'Cause he was just like, "Yes, we can," and people were like, "Sure." [laughs] If you make people feel good enough, the idea that it's like whatever you are, however you're abled, whatever you look like, whatever your sexuality, you, you are welcome here, is a very powerful message. And I just think that the message of fear right now on the Republican fa- side has just been crafted so well, and it's so clear. Mm-hmm. And to me, that's what frustrates me about the Democrats. I'm like- Mm-hmm ... you have to work on your messaging because people, if you say, like, "We have this big tent. We're a family. We don't always get along, but you're welc- you're more welcome here, and you're more able to be yourself here than you are on the other side," then I think that's an exciting message.

Trevor Noah 21:53 But I think-

Speaker 21:53 You know?

Trevor Noah 21:53 But I think, I think we're agreeing, actually, funny enough.

Speaker 21:55 Yeah? Okay.

Trevor Noah 21:56 I, I, I, honestly, I'll tell you why I think we're agreeing. Let's, let's look at Obama as an example. I believe the seminal moment in Barack Obama's ascendancy is when he's at the convention, and he says, "There is no red America."

Speaker 22:09 Red, blue.

Trevor Noah 22:09 "There is no blue America."

Speaker 22:10 Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree.

Trevor Noah 22:11 "There is just the United States of America."

Speaker 22:14 Mm.

Trevor Noah 22:14 And what he-

Speaker 22:14 Yeah, I heard white people all over the world just collapse.

Trevor Noah 22:17 Exactly.

Speaker 22:17 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 22:18 You heard them in unison, Tressie.

Speaker 22:20 Yes.

Trevor Noah 22:21 You heard them in unison.

Speaker 22:22 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 22:24 Because what Obama did very well was he did the exact same thing. That's what I'm trying to say. He did what Trump did. He goes for, "Leave it at the door." He's like, "I'm not gonna poke you on that issue. I'm not gonna remind you of the fact that you're white. I'm not gonna remind you of ... No, no, no, no, no. You, let's do this thing together." Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 22:41 And that's where I disagree.

Trevor Noah 22:41 Even when he gave-

Speaker 22:42 Trump doesn't do that.

Trevor Noah 22:42 Even when he gave-

Speaker 22:43 Trump says-

Trevor Noah 22:44 No

Speaker 22:44 ... 'No trans people.'

Trevor Noah 22:45 No, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 22:45 He speaks about Mexicans.

Trevor Noah 22:47 No.

Speaker 22:47 Come on, Trevor.

Trevor Noah 22:48 So here's my thing. Okay.

Speaker 22:49 He, he's very tribalist.

Trevor Noah 22:50 I'm gonna give you-

Speaker 22:50 And he-

Trevor Noah 22:51 No

Speaker 22:51 ... others groups all the time. I, I, and that's why people are drawn to him.

Trevor Noah 22:55 Here's something that you have to do with Donald Trump. You have to learn to hear what he's meaning and not just what he's saying.

Speaker 23:01 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 23:02 A lot of academic people get stuck on what Donald Trump is saying but not on what he means, right?

Speaker 23:07 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 23:07 I remember when Donald Trump did the Muslim ban. People were like, "Well, that's it for him. No, no Muslim person and no Middle Eastern person is gonna ever vote for him." And I remember speaking to Muslims and Middle Easterners, not just in the US but in other countries when I traveled to the Middle East, and they were like, "We understand what he's saying."

Speaker 23:26 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 23:27 And I was like, "What do you mean you understand?" And they were like, "No, no, we understand what Donald Trump is saying. He's saying there are, you know, he doesn't want any of these, like, uh, radical groups coming to America and the, the ..." Then I was like, "But he called it a Muslim ban." They're like, "No, no, look, look, he's not very articulate, and he is not going to ... But we understand what he's say. Even here in the Middle East, we don't want those people, huh? We are sick of ISIS. We are sick of extremists. We're ..." Then I was like, "Wait, wait, wait, guys, but he, he did a Muslim ban, so you're banned." Then they were like, "Yeah, but this we can figure out in time. The most important-"

Speaker 23:55 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 23:55 And I was like, damn.

Speaker 23:56 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 23:57 You hearing something different to me because I'm not listening the same way. And so if you listen to Donald Trump-

Speaker 24:04 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 24:04 ... he's saying to you as a Black person, "Hey- I forget Black. I, I don't even care about that in that way. It's gonna be be- 'cause what does he say? What does he say? No, what does he say with these words? He goes, "The, the Blacks, the, the Black jobs are coming. We're bringing all the Black jobs back."

Tressie McMillan Cottom 24:22 No, I was just about to say, the Black jobs message, I actually thought the Democrats made a mistake-

Trevor Noah 24:27 Yes

Tressie McMillan Cottom 24:27 ... in doubling down on mocking that. My apologies to Michelle.

Speaker 24:31 [laughs]

Tressie McMillan Cottom 24:31 I understand that's Jesus. But I thought we made a mistake, Trevor, and I have said this over [laughs] and over again, but I'm not in control, and that's fine. Because what people heard in Black jobs was a racialized history about working class people in this country-

Trevor Noah 24:48 Yes

Tressie McMillan Cottom 24:48 ... that actually is true.

Trevor Noah 24:50 Yes.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 24:51 If you are my people, like my grandparents and my uncles, there are Black jobs, especially during the height of, like, unionized manufacturing-

Trevor Noah 25:00 Mm-hmm

Tressie McMillan Cottom 25:00 ... and industrial labor in this country. They're not insulted that you call that work Black job, because they were dying to get one of those Black jobs.

Speaker 25:10 Mm.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 25:10 They fought white dominated unions for those Black jobs. And what they heard Donald Trump say, the minute he said it, I knew what he meant, and I said, "Well, I know who that will resonate with, with." By the way, overwhelmingly men who work in, like, masculine jobs that have a unionized history. What they were hearing was, we used to have a certain level of protectionism in the labor market. And yes, it wasn't maybe the best job in the factory, [laughs] right? It wasn't the best job on the construction site. But we understood what jobs to apply for and where we would get some, if not preferential treatment, then certainly some understanding that we were supposed to be there. And what Donald Trump understands is that when your instincts are accurate, you'll take any prescription that solves that problem for you. And his prescription right now has a clarity that the Democrats don't have, in part I think because they don't wanna be held responsible for delivering on the clear promise. See, Trump doesn't worry about that.

Trevor Noah 26:11 Ooh, damn.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 26:12 He's like, "Elect me, whatever. I don't care," because he's like-

Trevor Noah 26:15 Damn

Tressie McMillan Cottom 26:15 ... "As long as I win, you won," right? And frankly, a lot of his voters agree with that. The Democrats are so scared of being held-

Trevor Noah 26:21 That they can't actually do it

Tressie McMillan Cottom 26:22 ... responsible [laughs] for the clarity of their message that they never get a clear message.

Trevor Noah 26:27 Damn, I, I never thought of it that way, but that's-

Speaker 26:29 Mm.

Trevor Noah 26:30 Because I mean, let, look at it with Israel-Palestine. Say what you want about Donald Trump, but he's sort of had a clearer message than Kamala on it. He just goes, "We're gonna bring peace."

Speaker 26:41 [laughs] Yeah.

Trevor Noah 26:42 He, that's all he says. He says-

Speaker 26:44 Yeah

Trevor Noah 26:44 ... "I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna bring peace." Whereas Kamala goes, "Well, we must look at when this started, and also never forget, uh, that also there's October 7th, but also the Palestinians." Donald Trump's just like, "No, there's gonna be peace. And Ukraine, there's gonna be peace." They would never do it.

Speaker 27:00 But you know she could never say that, and I think that's what, I don't know if the word is irks, but frustrates me about this election, is that she could say and do all the things he says, and she couldn't get away with it. It just wouldn't-

Trevor Noah 27:14 Nobody can, nobody can do the things Donald Trump says and does.

Speaker 27:16 No, no, no, I think, I think a bunch-

Trevor Noah 27:17 Even Republicans can't.

Speaker 27:18 No, I think-

Trevor Noah 27:19 [laughs]

Speaker 27:19 ... I think, I think most mediocre white men can get away with what Donald Trump-

Trevor Noah 27:22 I don't know about that

Speaker 27:23 ... honestly, if you, if you have a lot, enough vim and charisma, [laughs] like he's shown us that, right? As long as you, like, dodge-

Trevor Noah 27:29 I don't know, Christiana

Speaker 27:30 ... and you don't-

Trevor Noah 27:30 I think Donald Trump is a freak of nature

Speaker 27:31 ... as long as you're shameless. He is a freak of nature. I do think he's a black-

Trevor Noah 27:34 He's a freak of nature

Speaker 27:34 ... black swan. But he shows you, like I said to my husband the other day, like w- he was speaking about someone we know, this white guy, and he never shows up to meetings. And I was like, "That's how you use your whiteness, 'cause meetings are a waste of time," right? [laughs]

Trevor Noah 27:46 Jesus, right.

Speaker 27:47 So he just- He's just never there.

Trevor Noah 27:48 [laughs]

Speaker 27:49 And I'm like, "Listen, if I was a white man, why am I going to the meeting?"

Tressie McMillan Cottom 27:51 I wouldn't meet either. Sure wouldn't.

Speaker 27:53 That's how you-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 27:53 Yeah

Speaker 27:53 ... that's how you use, like, your privilege in a benign way, is like kind of always throwing your stick around. He's like, "I don't wanna go to the meeting." And I think, like, Donald Trump, like, uses his whiteness to the max in a way that most white men would never da- dare. But I think if you're like, "I'm gonna be really shameless, I'm at the top of the social hierarchy," and more men adopted Trump's way of being, they could get away with so much stuff, in a way that I think Harris just cannot. And also, I don't think she's particularly loose in that way, and I don't say that, like, as-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 28:20 That's, yeah, I was just about to say

Speaker 28:21 ... to cast aspersions

Tressie McMillan Cottom 28:21 I think it's-

Speaker 28:22 She's like-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 28:22 Yeah

Speaker 28:22 ... she's a lawyer-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 28:23 I think it's fair to say-

Speaker 28:24 ... prosecutor

Tressie McMillan Cottom 28:24 ... some of this is about limitations of the candidate, which-

Trevor Noah 28:27 Mm-hmm

Speaker 28:27 Yeah

Tressie McMillan Cottom 28:28 ... right now is, you know, we're not supposed to say, but I just think that's real. That's, this is not her register, right?

Speaker 28:35 Yeah.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 28:35 But I also think, uh, to Christiana's point, that I think Trump is particularly gifted as a messenger, even if his political instincts suck. But he doesn't need strong political instincts right now. The structure of electoral politics in the United States is such that you could run a potato as the Republican candidate, and it will be competitive.

Trevor Noah 28:57 [laughs]

Speaker 28:57 [laughs]

Tressie McMillan Cottom 28:57 You know? We have so jury-rigged the process. We have got so much-

Trevor Noah 29:02 Oh

Tressie McMillan Cottom 29:02 ... gerrymandering. The courts have been packed. I think the real question is why somebody so buffoonish can't tank the Republican ticket. It's that strong. Now, he sells that better. He makes people feel better about it. But that's, I think, a slightly different gift than his political instincts.

Trevor Noah 29:20 Yeah, I, so you know what? Let, let's look at the Trump rally. You know, b- before we get into any of the analysis even, I, I just wanted to talk to you about this rally, because I feel like in the home stretch, doesn't matter what country you're in, a week before the election, all you wanna do, all you wanna do is not fumble the bag. That's all you wanna do.

Speaker 29:42 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 29:43 Donald Trump and his people, I don't know who signed off on this. I don't know, because I, I, I do believe this could be one of, not, not, I don't think ... But if Donald Trump loses this election, nobody should take for granted the significance of hosting a rally at Madison Square Garden where your opening act comes out [laughs] -

Speaker 30:06 [laughs] My Lord

Trevor Noah 30:07 ... says that Puerto Rico is a floating pile of trash in the ocean, says that Black people carve watermelon for Halloween.

Speaker 30:16 Oh, my God. Republicans are the party with the good sense of humor. [cheering] Free speech is under attack, people. I host a show, and each week I get updates what words we're allowed to use and not use anymore. You know, there's a lot going on. Like I don't know if you guys know this, but there's literally a floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now. Yeah. I think it's called Puerto Rico. [laughing] Okay. All right. [laughs] Okay. We're getting there

Trevor Noah 30:46 Yo, let me tell you something. I was watching that, and I was just like, who didn't think that that comedian, Tony Hinchcliffe, taking him out of the context of a comedy space, even if you wanna call it edgy or whatever-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 30:58 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 30:58 ... let's remove that for a second, right? I understand in comedy people are like, "Oh, they're jokes." Yeah, yeah, yeah. But right now, this is not a joke event, and no one knows this is a joke event, and you put this guy up, and he goes on, and he's just like... There were people who had never posted for the Democrats, by the way, who started posting, right? Bad Bunny, for instance-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 31:19 Mm-hmm. [laughs] I know

Trevor Noah 31:20 ... put out a post.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 31:21 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 31:21 Pro-Kamala.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 31:22 Bad Bunny is like, "That's it. This is enough" [laughs]

Trevor Noah 31:23 J.Lo came out. Ricky Martin came... And I don't know who jumped and who didn't.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 31:27 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 31:27 Like, I'm not saying they did or they didn't, uh, you know, previously. But it was pretty significant to see people, like, step up now. And the thing is, all Donald Trump had to do was come on stage and say, "You know, I saw Tony and his jokes, and Tony's a funny guy, but Tony, come on. Hey, we love Puerto Ricans."

Tressie McMillan Cottom 31:44 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 31:44 "We love them. We love them so much, Tony." That's all he had to do. If he came out and said that, it would've been like, "Oh, you saw that, and you acknowledged that that wasn't cool, and we're with you." But he didn't. And I think even the people there were just like, "Well, that's what it is." I'm just saying Tony Hinchcliffe, for me, showed me even in that moment that Donald Trump has something special. Because Tony Hinchcliffe came up there as a comedian, said a thing. He s- made a racist joke, made a few racist jokes, and could not get the people to, like, buy in on it in a way that Donald Trump could. That's another example of what I mean, is Trump can get away with that because Trump, even in the moment, would be savvy enough to say, "No, I shouldn't say that about Puerto Rico. We love the Puerto-"

Tressie McMillan Cottom 32:26 Uh-huh.

Trevor Noah 32:26 "We love them. We love-"

Tressie McMillan Cottom 32:27 We love you. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 32:29 And even in that moment, he's acknowledging, and the audience gives him leeway because, and I know this is gonna sound very blasphemous, Christiane. Don't fight me yet.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 32:39 Okay. I w- m- mm.

Trevor Noah 32:41 Here's what I think Donald Trump has done well, that Barack Obama did well, that Bill Clinton did well, that maybe even George Bush-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 32:50 Oh, yeah

Trevor Noah 32:50 ... in some ways did well. Donald Trump has understood the element, not maybe, maybe instinctively he does, but he's brought church to politics. When you're in church, both of you j- just stick with me. I see your eyebrows. Hold on a second.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 33:06 Okay. I'm, I'm, I'm gonna-

Trevor Noah 33:07 Hold on. Everybody relax

Tressie McMillan Cottom 33:08 ... this is my listening face.

Trevor Noah 33:09 Everybody relax. Everybody-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 33:09 I'm gonna let you, I'm gonna let you land, Trevor. I'm gonna let you land.

Trevor Noah 33:12 I've seen you listen in many different ways, Tressie.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 33:14 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 33:14 That's, that's, that's not your, your I'm, I'm with you listening face.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 33:17 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 33:18 So this is what I mean. Do you remember going to church and the pastor would be giving a sermon? And this would be a serious sermon. It would be a deep lesson, and in that lesson he would throw something out that was so politically incorrect. I remember my brain as a child would l- literally short circuit for a moment, you know? So he, like, let's say he would say, um, uh, you know, be reading from the scriptures, and he'd be like, "Honor, uh, wives honor thy husbands." And he'd be like, he's like, he's like, "But when I, when I ask my beautiful Mavis to make me a snack at midnight, she seems to forget that scripture. Come on, woman." And then the crowd would laugh, and he, and then the pastor would very quickly say, "No, no, I, I kid, I kid. But what is God telling us in this scripture?" And would quickly come back to, "No, no, no, this is real, this is not. This is real, this is not." But what I feel like great pastors are able to do is they leave the congregation feeling seen, and then they find a way to make it seem like it's about a larger thing, and it's, it, you shouldn't focus on one specific moment. So-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 34:22 Mm

Trevor Noah 34:22 ... the husband gets to walk out of the sermon going, "Ah, yes, I was seen. As a man, this is my purpose." But a woman gets to walk out of the congregation s- or out of the sermon saying, "I'm a woman-"

Tressie McMillan Cottom 34:32 Okay

Trevor Noah 34:32 ... "and I've been validated." A child gets to walk out feeling the same thing. But everyone collectively has sort of been preached to. You know what I mean?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 34:42 Hm.

Speaker 34:43 Yeah, I mean-

Trevor Noah 34:43 Do you, do, do you get what I'm saying?

Speaker 34:44 But I just feel that, like-

Trevor Noah 34:46 And w- and what I'm saying, so I'll, I'll, I'll wrap it

Speaker 34:47 ... he's a preacher of darkness. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 34:49 No, no, no, I-

Speaker 34:50 Like, his congre-

Trevor Noah 34:51 Yes, I understand that

Speaker 34:51 ... and his congregants, like, I'm, I'm not disagreeing that he brings, like, this looseness and improv. I don't know if he's ch- I don't, it doesn't have enough soul for me to quite be church. I think Obama had some of that, but, you know, also I'm a pastor's daughter, so I feel like-

Trevor Noah 35:04 Yes, but which church? But which church? We have to-

Speaker 35:05 Church of Darkness

Trevor Noah 35:05 ... which church?

Speaker 35:06 That, that's the church.

Trevor Noah 35:06 No, no, no, but what I'm saying is-

Speaker 35:07 Church of Darkness

Trevor Noah 35:07 ... when you're saying soul-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 35:08 The Church of, The Church of Darkness

Trevor Noah 35:09 ... which church, which church are you talking about when you talk about soul?

Speaker 35:11 The guitars and the sm- smoke machines, and the hot blonde women.

Trevor Noah 35:13 [laughs]

Speaker 35:14 Like those type of things.

Trevor Noah 35:14 No, but what I'm saying is-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 35:15 That one, yes. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 35:16 What I'm saying is when you talk about soul, you, I feel like you're looking for soul in the wrong place.

Speaker 35:20 Okay, this is what Trup- Trump has. He's just like an intrusive thought. You know, like all the things that people want to say-

Trevor Noah 35:27 [laughs]

Speaker 35:27 ... but we know we shouldn't say. And we do take to li- delight in those people that-

Trevor Noah 35:32 Yes

Speaker 35:32 ... I had a great uncle like that who-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 35:33 Yeah

Speaker 35:34 ... would say the most outrage- I can't even repeat the stuff. Well, he was like the great uncle that was like, "Oh, they shouldn't let Black people in heaven because we'll steal the gold off the street." This was my great uncle, right? And, like, you just, like, you don't know whether to laugh or cry. But he used-

Trevor Noah 35:47 Right

Speaker 35:47 ... to get off on saying the really outrageous stuff, and he was very beloved, and people were drawn to him. Tru- he reminds me of Trump. Trump reminds me of him. And I think, yeah, that's fine for a great uncle drinking Hennessy in his living room. But then, like, when you have a crowd of people, and he's like, "Well, they're gonna give your, your c- your child is gonna go to school a boy and come back a girl." And then [laughs] it's just like, w- where are we, where are we going with this? 'Cause he's humorous, but he's also stoking up hatred, Trevor. That's the thing.

Trevor Noah 36:15 Oh, d- d- definitely. Definitely.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 36:17 And I just wanna say I don't want us to implicate Hennessy here.

Speaker 36:20 [laughs]

Tressie McMillan Cottom 36:20 I think that I would like to leave Hennessy out of this.

Speaker 36:22 I'm sorry. I was impli- it was his favorite drink.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 36:24 I just, thank you.

Speaker 36:25 And Courvoisier.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 36:25 I don't think Hennessy-

Speaker 36:26 Courvoisier. He loved both. He loved both.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 36:27 Yeah.

Speaker 36:28 RIP to both.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 36:28 Deserves that shade. But I hear you, Christiane. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 36:36 Get ready for me to nerd out a little in this new segment, F1 Love, where we'll talk about all things F1 and the huge amount of things happening for the upcoming F1 Las Vegas GP. Did I ever tell you about the first time I went to a Formula 1 race?

Speaker 36:54 No, you didn't.

Trevor Noah 36:54 Same story. But, um, I, I love Formula 1. Like, love, love, love, love, love Formula 1. So I, um, I was introduced to Formula 1 by my dad.

Speaker 37:03 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 37:04 Right? And, uh, my dad is Swiss German, not very good at showing affection-

Speaker 37:09 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 37:09 ... but really good at, like, displaying it in his own way. So my mom was all hugs, kisses, smiles-

Speaker 37:14 Yeah

Trevor Noah 37:15 ... laughter, throw me up in the air-

Speaker 37:16 Yeah

Trevor Noah 37:16 ... run around with... My dad was very much like, "Are you fed?"

Speaker 37:19 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 37:19 "Uh, do, do you want to do something? Do you want to watch something?"

Speaker 37:22 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 37:22 "Okay, here we..." And my favorite thing was we used to watch Formula 1. So that's how I grew up, right? Loving Formula 1. There's a radio station in South Africa, and they're hosting a competition to go and watch Formula 1 in Brazil, and you gotta enter the competition, and it was this whole thing. You had to, like, do Formula 1 commentary. And I, I, I literally, I'll never forget this. I said to my cousin, "I think I've won the competition." And he's like, "But you haven't even phoned in yet." And I said, "Yeah, I think I've won already."

Speaker 37:47 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 37:48 And literally, I phoned in, and they didn't call me back, and so I went to the radio station, and I was like, "Hey, um, I'm pretty certain I won the competition, but I haven't heard" And they were like, "Well, that's a little arrogant."

Speaker 38:00 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 38:01 Like, "If we didn't call you, you didn't win."

Speaker 38:02 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 38:02 Then I was like, "No, I definitely won. I just wanna know why you didn't call me." And then the woman at the station was like, "Wait, there was one person who called, and it, it cut off before we got to their name and their phone number. Was that you?" And then they played the tape. I was like, "That's me."

Speaker 38:14 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 38:14 And they're like, "Oh yeah, come back for the finals." And then long story short, I did it again. I won again, and I was one of 10 people who got to go to São Paulo.

Speaker 38:21 Oh my God, this is crazy.

Trevor Noah 38:22 Yeah, and the-

Speaker 38:22 Trevor, your life, the Lord just gets-

Trevor Noah 38:24 [laughs]

Speaker 38:25 [laughs] What is happening?

Trevor Noah 38:26 And it was one of my f- let me tell, I, if you've never been to a Formula 1 race, it is one of the most exciting experiences you will ever, ever get to have. You will love Formula 1 because it transforms the city that it's in. So the newest race that's on the calendar is in v- is in Vegas. And I know people will be like, "Vegas? Like, where do you race in V-" Yeah, they race in Vegas.

Speaker 38:48 In Vegas itself?

Trevor Noah 38:50 On the streets. Yeah, they build a circuit.

Speaker 38:51 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 38:52 Race through the streets of Vegas. You, you know sometimes people will talk about, like, a, a partner or friend, they'll be like, "I feel like we've always known each other"?

Speaker 39:01 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 39:01 That's how Vegas seems when F1 is there. It seems like it was made for the city because think about what Formula 1 is. It is young hotshots trying to make their names known.

Speaker 39:11 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 39:12 All these beautiful people around them.

Speaker 39:13 Champagne.

Trevor Noah 39:14 Champagne, a party, excitement, noise, thrills, bright lights. It is Vegas.

Speaker 39:20 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 39:21 It is one of, like, the most exciting... And what I like about it being in Vegas is it feels like the city is geared to having people there.

Speaker 39:27 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 39:28 'Cause I, I don't like it when sporting events go to places where the place is almost not ready for the event.

Speaker 39:31 And they don't want the people.

Trevor Noah 39:32 No, they don't.

Speaker 39:33 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 39:33 Vegas is like, "No, no, come."

Speaker 39:34 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 39:35 "Come here." And have you been to a Formula 1 race?

Speaker 39:37 No, I haven't, but growing up I'd like to watch, like, Schumacher and Damon Hill.

Trevor Noah 39:41 Yes.

Speaker 39:41 Like, I, I, I love it, but yeah, I would, I'd watch it as a kid, and I'd, it was a zoom [laughs] around the circuit.

Trevor Noah 39:47 You should go. Vegas is around the corner for you.

Speaker 39:49 Yeah, but I'm not gonna ... Obi, Luna, come on.

Trevor Noah 39:52 Your kids would love F1.

Speaker 39:54 He'd wanna join in. He'd be at, wanna be at the pit stop-

Trevor Noah 39:56 [laughs]

Speaker 39:57 ... changing the tire. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 40:00 You've gotta do it. Like, I don't know. It's, it's like a, it's like a mini world cup-

Speaker 40:04 Can family, is it, like, a family thing?

Trevor Noah 40:05 That's probably the best thing.

Speaker 40:06 Family vibe?

Trevor Noah 40:06 Yeah, that's the best thing about it is people are in the stands, they're cheering together, and it's an experience. It's not... It, you know there's some sports where if you don't get the sport-

Speaker 40:15 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 40:16 ... then you don't really wanna be there.

Speaker 40:18 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 40:18 You know? But Formula 1 is just, I mean, who-

Speaker 40:20 Oh, the premise is simple.

Trevor Noah 40:21 It is simple.

Speaker 40:22 [laughs] It's very simple.

Trevor Noah 40:22 There's a car, and it's trying to drive faster than another car.

Speaker 40:24 Yeah, yeah. And the cars are different brands.

Trevor Noah 40:26 Exactly.

Speaker 40:26 That's it.

Trevor Noah 40:27 Exactly.

Speaker 40:27 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 40:27 So you and Obi have to go.

Speaker 40:30 Okay. W- we need a chaperone, though. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 40:32 Yeah.

Speaker 40:32 Okay.

Trevor Noah 40:32 We'll, we'll figure it out.

Speaker 40:33 All right.

Trevor Noah 40:33 We'll figure it out.

Speaker 40:33 No, we'll do that.

Trevor Noah 40:34 We'll make it, like, yeah, we'll make it a trip.

Speaker 40:35 Okay.

Trevor Noah 40:36 Yeah. See you in Vegas.

Speaker 40:37 See you in Vegas.

Trevor Noah 40:38 That was F1 Love, brought to you by F1 Race Week in Las Vegas, November 21 to 23. Tickets are available now by visiting f1lasvegasp.com.

Speaker 40:50 And everybody here knows this is gonna be a tight race till the very end, so we have a lot of work to do. But we like hard work.

Speaker 40:59 [cheering]

Speaker 41:01 Hard work is good work.

Speaker 41:02 [cheering]

Speaker 41:04 Hard work is joyful work.

Speaker 41:06 [cheering]

Speaker 41:08 And make no mistake, we will win.

Speaker 41:10 [cheering]

Trevor Noah 41:13 There's two things I really want us to get to in the conversation that I ... So first of all, do you acknowledge the possibility that your fears are overblown and Kamala might win this thing?

Speaker 41:23 I used to think-

Trevor Noah 41:23 Yeah

Speaker 41:23 ... she would win. I was, I-

Trevor Noah 41:24 So, but, but now you don't.

Speaker 41:26 It's 'cause of the, the, the coastal elites in my life have made me feel so depressed.

Trevor Noah 41:31 Did you feel like, did you feel like Biden would win when he won?

Speaker 41:33 No, I didn't think Biden would win in 2020. I did not believe he would win. Um, I don't know why, but I-

Trevor Noah 41:39 And you did, Tressie?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 41:41 I did. I thought COVID was that important of an external shock. And so, yes, I thought people, there's something they're finally more scared of than their so-called economic insecurity and xenophobia.

Trevor Noah 41:52 Oh, okay, okay.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 41:52 And that was COVID.

Speaker 41:53 Okay.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 41:53 And, 'cause that's what I think all of this is, what Trump gives as a solution to these, uh, existential fears.

Trevor Noah 42:00 Mm-hmm.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 42:00 Um, but there was something finally bigger, and it was COVID, and so I did think that Biden stood a better than fair chance.

Speaker 42:06 And Tressie, do you think Harris is gonna win and the fears are overblown? What do you think?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 42:11 I think that [laughs] I, I think that anything is possible. I think it is possible for her to win and not win, and let me tell you why. I- I do think that her campaign is particularly savvy, but Donald Trump doesn't need to win to win.

Speaker 42:28 Mm-hmm.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 42:29 Uh, I think that Donald Trump is gonna declare victory election night no matter what happens, and will immediately start litigating that, both in the courts and in his voters' minds. And I'm not sure the Democrats are willing to go as far as Donald Trump is. Uh, and I- that scares me.

Speaker 42:49 Mm-hmm.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 42:50 If this is a straightforward election, and people accept the election certification of results, then I think that she might have enough enthusiasm to get the kind of turnout that she needs.

Speaker 43:00 Yeah.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 43:01 Uh, uh, so, like, I think in Georgia, I think things like her Black social institutions are absolutely gonna matter. I just think the AKAs are just gonna run Georgia all to the hell and back. Um, but again, that's assuming a, uh, Trump campaign that I don't think exists, which is one that will accept the electoral results.

Speaker 43:18 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 43:19 Wow.

Speaker 43:19 Interesting.

Trevor Noah 43:19 I didn't see that as an answer.

Speaker 43:21 Yeah, but-

Trevor Noah 43:21 That, that, you see now, that's scarier to me than just an election.

Speaker 43:24 I know, I'm so scared.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 43:24 Okay, so-

Trevor Noah 43:25 No, really

Speaker 43:25 ... maybe, no, but now I'm less scared, because at her heart, she's a prosecutor-

Trevor Noah 43:29 She's a, yeah

Speaker 43:29 ... and I know she'll have her lawyers in place. Now I'm like, "Okay, fine." If it comes down to, like, if it comes down to legal stuff-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 43:34 And I'm not gonna call that for you

Speaker 43:35 ... no, but if it comes down to legal stuff, I feel like she'll play r- messy in a way we've never seen, 'cause she really wants this. I, I-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 43:42 I agree. I do think that she wants this to a degree that we so far have underestimated.

Speaker 43:48 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 43:48 Mm-hmm.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 43:49 When I see Kamala in the moments when I think she is her most self, that girl is a shark, and I say that with a great deal of respect-

Speaker 43:56 Yeah

Tressie McMillan Cottom 43:56 ... 'cause I like to think I'm a little scary, too.

Speaker 43:58 [laughs]

Tressie McMillan Cottom 43:59 So I'm not saying that's bad, I just, that's, I think you are exactly right, and I think some of what's happened in her campaign has been moderating that-

Speaker 44:06 Yeah, there is softening

Tressie McMillan Cottom 44:07 ... uh, for all of the reasons, for race and gender and all that kind of stuff

Trevor Noah 44:10 Yeah. Mm-hmm

Tressie McMillan Cottom 44:10 ... but I agree with you. I think that she is a shark, I think she wants it, and would be willing to go to the mat. I just hope the Democratic Party is willing to let her.

Speaker 44:19 And, and get behind her.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 44:21 Yep.

Speaker 44:21 Yeah.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 44:22 Yep.

Trevor Noah 44:22 [paper rustling] Don't go anywhere-

Speaker 44:24 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 44:24 ... 'cause we got more What Now? After this. [upbeat music]

Trevor Noah 44:34 What is, what is happening with Tucker Carlson? Like, what is happening-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 44:37 Oh, dear Lord

Trevor Noah 44:37 ... in his private life?

Speaker 44:38 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 44:39 No, and I, I-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 44:40 All I know is, let's not look at his browser history. I know that.

Trevor Noah 44:43 Right?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 44:45 What a creep.

Trevor Noah 44:45 That man, that man gave a speech at the Turning Point convention, and in it, he basically goes on to draw an analogy between Trump coming back as president and a father coming back home to kids who are misbehaving. Now, uh, uh, as an alad- analogy stands, it's pretty innocuous at that level. But what he says afterwards is, is mind-blowing.

Speaker 45:11 If you allow people to get away with things that are completely over the top and outrageous, if you allow your two-year-old to smear the contents of his diapers on the wall of your living room, and you do nothing about it, if you allow your 14-year-old to light a joint at the breakfast table, if you allow your hormone-addled 15-year-old daughter to, like, slam the door of her bedroom and give you the finger, you're gonna get more of it. And those kids are gonna wind up in rehab. It's not good for you, and it's not good for them. No. There has to be a point at which Dad comes home. [cheering]

Trevor Noah 45:49 He th- he then goes on to say, uh, he's like, "America's been bad" and, and he goes, uh [laughs] he says, this is the part that stuck with me. I paraphrased most of it, but essentially he says, he says, um, he says, "Your son is smoking marijuana at the dinner table." He's like, "No more of that. And your daughter is slamming her bedroom door in your face. Well, you know what? Daddy's coming home. Daddy's coming home, and you've been a bad girl. A bad, bad girl, and you're gonna get a vigorous spanking. That's right, you're gonna get spanked, you bad, bad girl. And no, it's not gonna hurt me more than it hurts you. Ooh, it's gonna hurt you way more, but you've been a bad girl." And you're just like, "Are we... Uh, have we just traveled with you in, into your, your deepest, dark..." Like-

Speaker 46:41 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 46:42 There were two things that stuck out for me. One, I found it interesting that even in his analogy, the girl had to do way less to get a bank- a spanking. Let's just start with that.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 46:50 Can we, I'm so glad you caught that.

Trevor Noah 46:53 Like, that was one of the, yo-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 46:53 [laughs] I was about to say, I was like, "Why is he obsessed with the daughter? The boy is smoking weed." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 46:57 The boy smoked marijuana at the table. Even if you are, like, a super liberal, chilled out family, someone smoking weed at the dinner table, come on, someone's gonna have a problem with that. The girl slammed her door. That's all she did, and then Daddy comes home to beat her. I, I was just like, "What is happening in Tucker Carlson's life?"

Tressie McMillan Cottom 47:16 Well, I also would point out that not only did the daughter get the extreme amount of retribution, her retribution is sexualized.

Speaker 47:24 Mm-hmm.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 47:25 It is v- very similar to the s- type of sexualization of, uh, of daughters that Donald Trump has done, and has gotten away with, uh, ad nauseam, and it's just been absolutely stunning to me. Um, so I think there are two things here. I think Tucker Carlson, uh, has some of that economic anxiety we like to talk about.

Speaker 47:43 [laughs]

Tressie McMillan Cottom 47:44 Tucker ain't got no job.

Speaker 47:45 [laughs]

Tressie McMillan Cottom 47:45 And I think when people don't have a job, they will do a lot to get some attention.

Speaker 47:48 [laughs]

Tressie McMillan Cottom 47:49 Things have not landed the way he thought they would after he left Fox-

Speaker 47:53 Yeah

Tressie McMillan Cottom 47:53 ... and he will say anything to get back-

Trevor Noah 47:55 Yeah

Tressie McMillan Cottom 47:55 ... on a stage. That's number one. Uh, and he knows what will do that, right? He knows what's-

Trevor Noah 48:00 Mm-hmm

Tressie McMillan Cottom 48:00 ... the most extreme case. But I also think, and I'm not sure he would do this consciously, but I think the fixation on the daughter, the gendered nature of, um, that rant, is very much about who they think the problem is in this electorate-

Trevor Noah 48:14 Yes. Yes

Tressie McMillan Cottom 48:14 ... in this campaign.

Speaker 48:14 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 48:14 That's, that's exactly what it was.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 48:15 It's women voters.

Speaker 48:16 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 48:16 That's exactly what it was.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 48:18 Yes.

Speaker 48:18 Yeah, and it was also who he was speaking to. Like, Turning Point-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 48:22 Yeah

Speaker 48:22 ... big religious crowd And I don't know how much, like, okay, you guys know I'm into the trad wives. I'm also into, like, the-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 48:29 Yeah

Speaker 48:29 ... people that have, like, loads of kids

Tressie McMillan Cottom 48:31 Taken in hands

Speaker 48:31 ... and the Quiverfull-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 48:32 That whole, yeah

Speaker 48:33 ... move- movement, and so much of it is based on disciplining children. Like, it's like a-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 48:37 Mm-hmm

Speaker 48:37 ... cornerstone of the movement. Spare the rod and, you know, spoil the child

Tressie McMillan Cottom 48:41 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 48:41 Spare the child.

Speaker 48:42 These are the only white people in the world who still beat their kids. So I think he also knew it was like, "This is what that crowd wants to hear. We're gonna have a president that agrees with you when you beat your daughter for doing something-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 48:53 Mm

Speaker 48:53 ... relatively minor." So he's, like, still savvy in that way, but also I think, you know, some sexual fantasies there as well.

Trevor Noah 49:00 I wonder how much of everything America's experiencing in its politics, and in many parts of the world, just boils down to men feeling like the world is moving in a direction that they have no place in, and that's the only reason they're voting the way they're voting.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 49:20 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 49:20 Like, it, it [laughs] ...

Tressie McMillan Cottom 49:21 Yeah [laughs]

Speaker 49:21 [laughs] Yeah.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 49:23 That, there you go.

Trevor Noah 49:25 That's it.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 49:25 I mean, you do that with a sprinkle in of climate change, that's the whole shebang.

Speaker 49:29 Yeah. That's it.

Trevor Noah 49:30 It really just feels like that. 'Cause it, it's funny you say climate change. Literally everything I can, I can tie it back. So you go, climate change, the real thing people are angry about is they're telling you you can't drive a truck.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 49:41 Uh-huh.

Speaker 49:42 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 49:42 You know?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 49:43 Mm.

Trevor Noah 49:43 And then it's like, uh, gender identity, they're telling you that you can't be a man. You know? A- a- and then, like, guns, they're telling you you, you can't protect your family or, or shoot somebody who you feel is threatening you or your family. The, you name the issue, you know what I mean? Like, when it comes to econo- the border, th- they're saying that your jobs are gonna be take- it's, it's literally just a response. For me, it seems like what they've done really well is saying, "Hey men, this is your political party, and this is-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 50:15 Yeah

Trevor Noah 50:15 ... your moment, and this is you getting back." It's like MAGA should be, like, Make American Guys Again. You know what I mean? Because it's like, it feels like it's all just about guys, and then the women that come along with them.

Speaker 50:26 Also, Trevor, I'd like to, I, I agree, it's completely, like, male anxiety 'cause, you know, there's so much research about men essentially falling behind, like, university enrollment, more women than men-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 50:37 I was about to say, this just 'cause we got some college degrees right now.

Speaker 50:39 Exact, college degrees-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 50:40 Yeah

Speaker 50:40 ... and more earning power. But there are also women who are craving the protection of men, like, a- as a Black woman-

Trevor Noah 50:48 Mm.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 50:48 Mm

Speaker 50:48 ... or, my TikTok feed is, like, Black women, how to secure a high-value man.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 50:54 Yeah.

Speaker 50:54 You know?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 50:54 The soft life-

Speaker 50:55 The soft life

Tressie McMillan Cottom 50:56 ... so we can have soft kids.

Speaker 50:56 Like, how to do-

Trevor Noah 50:57 R.I.P. Kevin Hart

Speaker 50:57 ... how to do [laughs] how to do your hair and how to wear your makeup so-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 51:01 Yeah

Speaker 51:01 ... you will attract a strong, masculine m- uh, man-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 51:04 Mm

Speaker 51:04 ... and you live in your-

Trevor Noah 51:05 Hm

Speaker 51:05 ... feminine energy. So it's like I, we can blame, like, the male anxiety, but I'm seeing women of my age and younger say, "I don't wanna do it anymore. I don't wanna work anymore. It's scary out there. I would rather be under the authority of a man. He's my one boss [laughs] , and I'll take whatever comes with that, 'cause I've tried capitalism and it hasn't worked for me."

Tressie McMillan Cottom 51:26 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 51:26 And I think that's why it's scary, because there's kind of like the intersection of those desires coming from very different places, but there are women out there that do want to have a man who can afford to maintain, be the sole earner, and they can stay at home. Um, a- as much as I think that's a woman's choice, but a lot of women aren't making this out of a sense of choice, they're making it because the world-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 51:44 Mm

Speaker 51:44 ... is a horrible place if you're a woman in the workplace.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 51:48 Yeah, marriage has always been a capitalist fantasy. This has always been cosplaying, uh, capitalism. Uh, when we feel the most romantic about, uh, marriage, it is when capitalism isn't working, uh, out for us. In a weird way, the fact that Black women are now opting into that fan- fantasy is its own sign of progress, believe it or not.

Speaker 52:09 [laughs] Yeah.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 52:09 That they think [laughs] that they think they have this option, and that Black men can provide it for them, 'cause I'm seeing the same thing, Christiana. I, I will say, as much as I'm seeing that, however, uh, Black me- Black women opting into that, I know so much of that is driven by my algorithm, and it's who I am, and that's fine.

Speaker 52:25 Yeah.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 52:26 But I think that the real sort of threat there, and has always been the threat, are white women who are doing it not just because of their economic insecurity, but are doing it so that they can defend the interests of their white sons.

Speaker 52:39 Yeah, for sure.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 52:40 See, Black women aren't doing that, right?

Speaker 52:42 Yeah.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 52:42 Because we know it's not promised for our sons.

Speaker 52:45 Absolutely.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 52:45 And so I think this is why we see white women voters voting against their own, uh, self-interest, in many ways voting against their own daughters' self-interest and possibility, because they are doubling down on defending their sons' patriarchal privilege, and that to me is what is dangerous, 'cause that's not just about capitalism, right?

Speaker 53:07 Yeah.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 53:07 That's about, like, property and violence, and wanting to be on the right side of the fence. Uh, and I think in that sort of scenario, this is one of the reasons why you see women go to a Donald Trump rally and want him to sign their boobs, and they have sexualized him and turned him into a sexual figure despite the fact that he quite literally looks like a orange wedge.

Speaker 53:24 [laughs]

Tressie McMillan Cottom 53:25 Like, we know the man isn't sexy or attractive [laughs] right? But they are projecting onto them what they want to be able to pass on to their sons.

Speaker 53:34 Yeah.

Speaker 53:34 Tressie, the, and this is not even me trying to, like, redeem the white woman voter in any way, 'cause I think the, the numbers will speak for themselves, but, um, I did IVF, um-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 53:45 Mm-hmm

Speaker 53:45 ... and so I'm in a lot of IVF groups and communities, and funny enough, where I did IVF was in Texas. So I would see-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 53:52 Mm

Speaker 53:52 ... in the clinics really young women, I'm talking women from, like-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 53:55 Yeah

Speaker 53:55 ... 23 to 30, conservative, Christian, et cetera, et cetera. What's been interesting to me is a lot of these women who are, like, churchgoing, typically pro-life, the abortion ban has kind of overlapped with the issue of IVF, and they're not-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 54:13 Yeah

Speaker 54:13 ... happy with it. Do you think there are enough of those women who are unhappy with the fact that like, "Well, when I have a miscarriage, I can't actually get the care I need because of-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 54:23 Yeah

Speaker 54:23 ... Roe v. Wade falling down, and, and its implication in places like Texas and Georgia, et cetera, et cetera.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 54:28 Mm.

Speaker 54:28 Do you think there are enough of those women that perhaps Harris may just take it, win and really win?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 54:35 I hope that there are-

Speaker 54:36 Okay

Tressie McMillan Cottom 54:36 ... Christiana. [laughs]

Speaker 54:37 That's your way of saying no.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 54:38 And-

Speaker 54:38 [laughs]

Tressie McMillan Cottom 54:39 I, well, we, uh, if you had asked me this actually when the last time we were all together, I would've said yeah, I-

Speaker 54:44 Yeah

Tressie McMillan Cottom 54:44 ... you know, I see this going. But then, I don't know, I saw JD Vance's response to that on that debate stage that night.

Speaker 54:51 Mm-hmm.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 54:51 And he was so smooth in papering that over, of saying, "No, we really are only going after abortion. Of course, we want you to be able to have babies, and we're reasonable. We can, we can be moved on that." And while I don't think that's the message they're getting from Donald Trump, I think that it was enough for them to think that there might be a future where they can keep Trump.

Speaker 55:13 Mm-hmm.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 55:13 But also have this, like, moderating force there that won't deny them IVF, but will still deny bad women, sinful women, their access to abortion and birth control. Um, they're not ax- asking for actual policies. They just want assurances, and I think they're willing to lie to give, to give them that assurance.

Speaker 55:33 And I do think they want protections of IVF. Like, the rulings that have come down-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 55:36 Yes

Speaker 55:36 ... in Louisiana, et cetera, have been worrying for people.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 55:38 And they see a model.

Speaker 55:40 Yeah.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 55:40 Yeah.

Speaker 55:40 And they're just like, "Make sure that we can still make embryos and I can make babies. I don't care about the abortions."

Tressie McMillan Cottom 55:45 That's right.

Speaker 55:45 But now the abortions have encroached on that, so it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Trevor Noah 55:50 I just, I just wonder, as, as people are wrapping up the race, Christiana, my main criticism really would have been less about, um, appealing to certain voters, and I think Kamala Harris and the Democrats spent way too much time talking about the danger of Donald Trump. And I'll tell you why. The first time around, you can, you can use that as your argument, because people are like, "What is this thing? He said he's gonna build a wall. He said he's gonna, he said he's gonna..." B- but in the same way that news and weather channels in America have lost their ability to get people to evacuate when a storm is, is, is impending-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 56:28 Yeah

Trevor Noah 56:29 ... I think the Democrats shouldn't take for granted that you can only say this thing is gonna end the world so many times. And because he's had a presidency where the world didn't end, your argument gets undermined. And now I'm not saying, now this is where people make a mistake. People think that dictatorships and authoritarian regimes are built overnight, but they're not. Right? People think, like, armies march in the streets. The, uh, it doesn't happen that way. If you read history and if you've lived in those countries, you know it's a very gradual creep. So I think that's where people make the mistake, but I do think they spend too much time doing that, because it's not scary in the same way anymore. And people are like, "Yeah, but I, I lived through a Trump presidency. It was annoying, but I don't know."

Tressie McMillan Cottom 57:15 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 57:16 I don't, it's not unknown anymore, and I think they could have spent more time telling people what they would do for them as opposed to scaring people off from this, like, mystery man who's no longer a mystery. Does that make sense?

Speaker 57:30 Trevor, you're speaking like she's lost. See, this is why I'm getting depressed and anxious.

Trevor Noah 57:34 No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 57:34 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 57:35 I, can I, can I tell you something?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 57:36 I fixed this. I fixed this a few minutes ago. [laughs]

Speaker 57:38 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 57:38 No, no, no, no. Okay, so here's the, here's the difference for me. Here's the difference for me. Um, I don't think anything is a foregone conclusion until the day.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 57:47 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 57:48 Right? The election comes down to a few hundred thousand votes, regardless of the popular votes. So I, I always have hope. If you remember when, when I was at The Daily Show, I had hope. I mean, hope is the wrong word maybe, but, like, I thought that Donald Trump could win in 2016, and people were like, "You're crazy." And I was like, "No, but look what, look at what he's saying-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 58:07 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 58:07 ... and look at how it's connecting-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 58:08 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 58:08 ... and look at what he's..." So in the same way, I, I don't think that it's a foregone conclusion that Kamala has lost this thing, because I do think there are a lot, there are a lot of people out there who are just like, they're bored. They don't wanna be part of politics. They don't wanna be... But you know what they don't want? They don't want chaos.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 58:27 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 58:27 They don't want, like, another four years of, like, breaking news every day.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 58:33 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 58:33 They don't want abortion, uh, restrictions. They don't want IVF restrictions. They don't want a wall. They, but they're just quiet. They're just like, "Just leave me alone. I don't even wanna be called a Democrat or a Republican or..." I think right now in America actually, this is the largest, uh, uh, Tressie, you'll correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I know you, you know numbers like crazy, but, like, it feels like more people than ever are, don't have a label to their voting right now, right?

Tressie McMillan Cottom 58:57 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 58:57 People just are like, "No, I'm, I'm neither. No, I'm not even independent."

Tressie McMillan Cottom 59:01 Independent.

Speaker 59:01 Independent. Their own. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 59:01 They're just like, "I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm undeclared." And I think that's actually a good sign for Kamala Harris, because an undeclared vote, voter doesn't vote for Donald Trump. When you're Trump, you're Trump. But an undeclared voter can vote for Kamala Harris and for the Democrats because they go, "Look, man, I, I, I might not, I might not even think you guys are sexy, but let's just keep it moving." So I actually have hope the other way around. If, if I bet my money, I'm betting, like, 51% Kamala Harris wins the thing.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 59:31 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 59:33 But I wouldn't bet my money.

Speaker 59:33 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 59:35 'Cause I don't like those odds.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 59:36 There you go. There you go. [laughs] I think that's the right answer.

Trevor Noah 59:40 Yeah, I wouldn't.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 59:41 Keep your money in your pocket and your-

Trevor Noah 59:42 Yeah, keep your money in your pocket

Tressie McMillan Cottom 59:43 ... ID in your wallet.

Trevor Noah 59:44 [laughs] Um,

Trevor Noah 59:46 Tressie, uh, i- is, is there advice that you would give people on how to maintain their sanity? Since everyone's texting you-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 59:53 Oh

Trevor Noah 59:53 ... we may as well. I'm giving you the opportunity to pre-text everyone back.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 59:58 I appreciate that, by the way, uh, because I don't like sending actual te- text messages. You know, I think, um, as much as professional politicos and, uh, uh, campaign people have to pay attention to polls, I really hate polling culture and what it has done, uh, to us.

Trevor Noah 1:00:15 Mm-hmm.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 1:00:15 Um, I mean, it's right up there to me with, like, the red and blue maps, right? It just does something to the human psyche that is not good or healthy. I promise you, the polls are not deterministic. It is okay to check out of that. You are not a bad citizen if you don't keep up with the polls. I would argue you might be a bad citizen if you don't go vote.

Trevor Noah 1:00:34 [laughs]

Tressie McMillan Cottom 1:00:34 Or at least have a good reason for not voting, 'cause I allow those things. I understand those things. Um, but I don't think you need to follow the polls, and I promise you, if you stop fo- fo- following them, you will feel marginally but measurably better. Go vote, take somebody with you, uh, if you are inclined to do so, and know that you've done your part. And I'ma tell you, I have to watch the returns come in that night. I'll be up till, like, 2:00 AM blogging for The New York Times. I don't think most Americans need to do that. I'm, I'm not kidding you. I think this is gonna be a long, drawn-out one. Uh, and so, you know, opt out of the back and forth, and you'll feel a little better.

Trevor Noah 1:01:12 Christiana, a lot of that was just for you, just so you know.

Speaker 1:01:13 Yeah, it was all for me. Okay, thank you.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 1:01:15 I was trying here.

Trevor Noah 1:01:16 It was really, it was really all for you.

Speaker 1:01:17 I was trying.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 1:01:17 [laughs]

Speaker 1:01:17 I'll take it. I'll take it.

Trevor Noah 1:01:18 It was truly all for you. Well, Tressie, this was all for us. Thank you again for joining us. The next time we speak, America may have, uh, its new president. We don't, we don't know yet. They may have elected, let's say America may have elected its new president. Tressie, uh, has agreed to join us on the podcast next week.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 1:01:39 I may even be sober. Um-

Speaker 1:01:40 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:01:42 We'll see.

Speaker 1:01:43 I want, I want drunk Tressie. That, no, that is fun.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 1:01:45 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:01:45 Can I tell you, we should make that a date, all of us. We just, shots. We just go crazy.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 1:01:50 We just come on the air.

Trevor Noah 1:01:51 And we just do a drunk episode-

Tressie McMillan Cottom 1:01:53 That's right

Trevor Noah 1:01:53 ... post the election, drunk out of our minds. What Now? lit edition.

Tressie McMillan Cottom 1:01:59 I'm down.

Speaker 1:02:01 I'm down too. [upbeat music]