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What Now? With Trevor NoahJoin or Die with Robert Putnam | What Now? with Trevor Noah Podcast
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Chapter summaries
Bowling Alone and How Barack Obama Became "Bob's" Friend
Trevor Noah welcomes Robert Putnam and sets up the themes of loneliness, community and democracy. Putnam tells the story of Barack Obama joining his seminar on social isolation, where he was nicknamed "The Governor" and showed a knack for finding common ground.
- •Putnam brought together a diverse group to tackle social isolation and its political consequences
- •His son knew Barack Obama from Harvard Law Review and basketball, which led to the invitation
- •The group jokingly nicknamed the ambitious young organizer "The Governor"
- •Obama stayed quiet, then showed that people who thought they disagreed actually agreed underneath
Why Social Isolation Matters: Join or Die
Noah asks why loneliness is such a big deal. Putnam says joining a group cuts your chances of dying over the next year in half, and that weak social capital also hurts the economy, equality and democracy.
- •The documentary title Join or Die refers to both personal health and collective effects
- •Joining one group cuts the chance of dying in the next year in half, controlling for other factors
- •Low social capital slows economic growth, increases inequality and drives polarization
- •Bowling Alone documented decades of declining connection, and it has fallen further in the 25 years since
Who Is the "We"? Community Among Black Women and Ethnic Groups
A co-host questions the collective "we," saying Black women and ethnic minorities often have dense community ties through caregiving, clans and dues-paying societies. Noah argues everyone is describing the same thing, and Putnam is asked to explain what other groups have let go.
- •The co-host says Black women's life expectancy is holding or rising and links this to deep community ties
- •She describes Igbo clan dues that help pay for funerals
- •Noah recalls his grandmother's money-pooling, funeral and church societies in South Africa
- •Noah asks what some groups hold onto that others let go of
Lessons from Italy: Choral Societies and Effective Government
Putnam describes his natural experiment with Italy's regional governments created in 1970. The best predictor of good government was dense civic networks such as choral societies, and in the south people's groups were strong but very narrow.
- •Italy's regional governments had identical powers but very different environments
- •Economic wealth and education did not explain success; choral societies and football clubs did
- •Northern Italy had broad groups spanning families, while the south had only tiny family-based ones
- •Putnam responds to the co-host's point that her own "we" is strong and extended
Reciprocity, Trust and Dropped Letters
Noah asks why more clubs would make government work better. Putnam explains the norm of reciprocity that regular contact builds, recalls his 1950s Ohio town where nobody locked doors, and describes the lost-letter experiments showing wide variation in trustworthiness.
- •Regular contact builds a norm of reciprocity, even toward people you don't know
- •Putnam recalls unlocked doors and an integrated bowling league in his 1950s Ohio town
- •On average Americans are now less connected and less trustworthy
- •Dropped money-filled letters get returned from 0% to 80% of the time depending on the place
Why Bowling? Leagues, Teams and Civic Conversation
Putnam explains that bowling itself hasn't declined but league bowling has collapsed. In a league, people who know each other well chat while waiting, sometimes about public affairs, and social capital has to be fun, not just "eat your spinach."
- •League bowling has collapsed even though bowling itself has not
- •Teammates see each other weekly and occasionally discuss local issues responsibly
- •Social capital must be fun to work
- •Noah notes that only meeting at political rallies keeps conversation purely political
Time Use Data: More Free Time, More Screens
Noah asks whether work and capitalism have squeezed out time for groups. Putnam cites time-use data back to the 1960s: sleep is unchanged, work time is down, and all the extra time goes to screens while time spent with other people falls.
- •Average sleep is still 7.5 hours a day
- •Americans spend less time at work than before
- •The freed-up time has gone to screens, including more TV plus about two more hours a day with social media
- •Time spent in the presence of other people has declined
Social Media, Online Connection and the Alloy Metaphor
Responding to a question about millennials and Gen Z finding connection online, Putnam says our networks are now "alloys" of face-to-face and internet ties. He argues tech companies know how to build alloys that help people meet in person but have no business incentive to do so, and Noah compares this to engagement-driven design.
- •Early claims that social media would bring world peace were met with academic skepticism
- •Almost all networks today mix face-to-face and online ties, like an alloy
- •Neighborhood networks can use the internet to connect people who then meet in person
- •Putnam says it's better for tech companies' business if people fight than cooperate
- •Noah compares this to junk food and infinite scroll
Neighborhood WhatsApp Groups and Crime Fighting
The co-host describes how her neighborhood WhatsApp group built trust and corrected profiling in real time, and led to in-person walks. Putnam adds that knowing neighbors' first names fights crime better than more police, based on experimental studies.
- •The co-host's neighborhood group shares crime concerns, flour requests and offers of in-person help
- •A white neighbor challenged a loaded description without the Black member needing to
- •A group leader organizes neighborhood walks and wants to meet families in person
- •Putnam says knowing neighbors is a more effective crime-fighting strategy than more police, citing large studies
Trump as Symptom: Isolation and Populism
Noah asks how fewer clubs led to the movement behind Donald Trump. Putnam says Trump is a symptom, not the cause, of a 50-year decline in connection, and that social isolation is the strongest predictor of Trump support. Noah adds comments on the decline of churches and on Trump rallies as clubs.
- •Putnam says Trump is a symptom and the problems will persist after he leaves
- •Putnam says Steve Bannon and JD Vance made similar points about the book
- •Isolated people are ripe for a populist who says "trust me"
- •Noah laments the decline of churches as places of connection and help
- •Noah, relaying Jordan Klepper, says many rally attendees are there for the vibes and a club of the forgotten
Bonding vs. Bridging Social Capital and the Democrats
A co-host asks how to keep new clubs from becoming clubs of hate. Putnam distinguishes bonding ties among similar people from bridging ties across differences, and says bridging is crucial but harder. Noah argues the Democrats leaned on bonding in the election.
- •Bonding social capital links similar people; bridging links unlike people
- •Bonding isn't bad, but bridging is crucial for a diverse society and is harder to build
- •Putnam says he doesn't want groups like the Ku Klux Klan because they are bonding
- •Noah says Obama and Bernie Sanders bridged while both parties in the last election leaned on bonding
Class Divides and Working-Class Politics
Putnam draws on his book Our Kids to argue that the class gap, between college-educated and everyone else, is growing and matters as much as race. He thinks the Democrats should focus more on class, and the co-host notes that the Black men most likely to vote for Trump were non-college and unchurched.
- •Our Kids documents growing class segregation in marriage and neighborhoods
- •Putnam says working-class whites and Blacks face similar plights
- •Putnam says the Democratic Party should focus more on class and less exclusively on identity
- •A co-host says the Black men most likely to vote for Trump were non-college and unchurched
- •Noah says many issues framed around race are also class issues
Putnam's Three To-Dos: Go Young, Go Local, Go Moral
Asked for the "what now," Putnam offers three steps: focus on young people, act locally, and revive a sense of moral obligation to others. Noah offers Pokemon Go as an example of a digital and physical hybrid, and Putnam points to the invention of the public high school as a local idea that went viral.
- •Go young: young people will invent the new bowling leagues, likely mixing tech and real personal relations
- •Noah's Pokemon Go story in Central Park illustrates an "alloy" of digital and in-person connection
- •Go local: big social revolutions bubble up from below, such as MLK starting in Montgomery and the public high school spreading from small towns
- •Go morality: a moral reawakening where people feel obligations to others, and religion is a we phenomenon
- •The conversation closes with thanks, with Noah noting the ideas are simple but hard
