Josh Johnson: Finding Meaning in a System Built to Fracture You

Put your hands together for Josh Johnson! [cheering]

The newest correspondent, he's an Emmy winner. Uh, he's got millions of followers online. Wired Magazine called him the funniest guy on the internet, and that's a big place.

Josh is putting out a weekly special every single Tuesday on his YouTube channel.

I'm gonna have to sit there listening, watching the Super Bowl Halftime Show to Spanish. I'm gonna have to sit there with my guacamole and my chips in my lap- [laughing] [cheering] ... listening to Spanish.

His channel has gotten over 350 million views, and all this success has actually landed him a hosting spot on The Daily Show.

He has a dream that one day he will not be judged by the content of the Epstein files. [laughing] I can't stress enough how much I'm enjoying what I'm doing and, like, how obsessed I am with comedy in general. [upbeat music]

This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. [upbeat music]

That's a ... Do you remember you had a gag about that, Eugene, back in the day?

About Dexter?

There was a j- What are you looking at? [laughs] What are you doing?

I'm looking at something.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Do you remember there was a joke you ... I, I feel like it was you. You had a joke about how ... It was something about, like, attempted murder.

Yeah.

Ah, man.

Tell me more.

Oh, man.

[laughs]

What was ... It was ... I feel like the premise was something to the effect of you should get, like, more of a punishment for attempted murder than murder.

Oh.

Because, like, attempted, like you're not good at what you did. It-

It wasn't me.

It w- it wasn't you?

No.

Maybe it was me then.

That-

No.

That's so funny. That's a-

Does that ever happen to you?

Uh, yeah. I've, I've definitely been like, "This came to me too easy. I wonder, like, is this somebody..." And then I look back at my notebook, and I wrote it and then forgot about it.

Yeah. Sometimes I think it's-

That was-

Are you sure?

Yeah.

Hmm. I'm gonna go look and see if I ever-

This logic is solid, though.

I, yeah.

'Cause, like, if somebody hits you i- if somebody try to hit you in your eye, they hit you above your eye, you get more mad. 'Cause you're like, "You tried to hit me in my eye [laughs] and you didn't."

My one was, like, if we could figure out a way to make a body disappear, more murders would happen. 'Cause it seems like a body, once someone is dead, yo, that thing becomes very famous.

Oh, so if we just, like, if it just evaporated.

Yes. But now a body, it's very hard to disappear.

Huh.

There's people roll it in carpets, put it in drums, pour acid over it, put it in dustbins to get rid of it.

Yeah. People will make

the whole mess bigger-

Yes

... or they'll make the thing they gotta get rid of bigger.

Yes.

'Cause you put, if you put a body in a oil drum, that's a bigger thing [laughs] you gotta move.

Yeah, now you got a problem.

Yeah.

And it becomes heavier.

[laughs]

I already-

I never thought of it like that.

No. My squat is already bad, so then just to get the body-

Now you've added oil drum. [laughs]

'Cause you also don't think ... Look, if you commit a crime of passion, you don't factor in you're gonna be tired. So then now you've [laughs] killed somebody.

I think first is regret.

I ... Hopefully, if you're not, like, a sociopath.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But even sociopaths only have so much muscle. So then now you're like, "All right. I gotta move the body," and it's like trying to move a body, I imag- if you've ever caught a person, do you know what I mean? Like-

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

... if you've ever, like, tried to pick someone up.

Especially dead weight.

Yeah.

Like, there's a reason they call it that.

Yeah. There's reasons why people wake their partners up-

People-

... from the couch.

Yeah.

Like, "Eh, eh, eh, eh."

Yeah. Yeah.

Just tap me, "Eh, eh." [laughs]

There are people that think they can pick people up because you picked someone who was excited up for sex.

If there was a crime that you had to commit, what crime would you trust yourself best to commit?

Uh, hmm. This feels like it'll end up in a deposition. Uh, wire fraud maybe.

Look into this.

[laughs]

Look into that camera.

Yeah.

Say it into that camera please, Josh. [laughs]

[laughs]

I ... 'Cause here's the, here's the thing about wire fraud. Here's the thing about wire fraud. Everybody already does it by accident.

Wait. What is wire fraud again? In America, it's-

Like, like there's ... Like, to me, w- my understanding of, like, wire fraud-

Yeah

... is, like, misrepresenting a transaction.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay.

And I'm, and I'm pretty positive that that's most of Venmo. Like, mo- like most of Venmo is like-

When you say, like, what your payment was.

Yeah. And it's like, you're lying. [laughs] It's, it's-

Do you write the real thing?

Uh, I try to write the real thing so I remember the real thing.

Oh, no.

I've had to, I've had to pay people before for, like, a servi- like, I'll pay someone, and it'll be, like, a studio, like a music studio.

Yeah.

And so I'll just say studio time. I don't say sandwich.

That's boring.

I-

You gotta say sandwich, Josh.

[laughs]

That's what makes Venmo fun.

What crime would you perform?

Is when you ... Who, me?

Yeah.

If-

'Cause I feel like crime is a performance

... if I, if I had to pick a crime-

It's planned. There's rehearsals.

If I had to-

There's costumes

... if I had to pick what I think I would be best at-

Yeah

... if it was committing a crime, I th- I think I've, I've, I've always thought I'd be, like, a good getaway driver. That's what I would pick.

You love driving.

So, like, aiding and abetting would be your-

No, no, the getting away.

The get- like, the driver. I'd just be the driver.

We drive in.

Drive you, drive you. You know, like The Transporter, those kinds of movies?

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm like, I think I would, I would do that. I think I would be pr- I think I would be really good.

I'm just, I'm just going off of the court term. Like, like, I think you'd be, like, aiding and abetting a, a heist, like a robbery.

Wouldn't you just be part of it if you, if you're the driver?

I-

Is that what they ... They give you less of a sentence?

I'm positive they give you less of a sentence, 'cause sometimes there are people who have the plausible deniability of, like, especially if you're, if you're just, like, like, criminals.

You could also just say, like, you were just driving these people-

Mm-hmm

... but you don't know why.

I was just driving.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm a v- it's an Uber.

It's a very tough-

[laughs]

I wonder if you could get away with that.

Yeah.

I wonder if you could, I wonder if you could be an Uber driver-

Mm-hmm

... who's planning to rob a bank with your crew.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wait outside a place, they jump in, you run, and then they catch you

Is that F1?

No, but if, if they-

Oh

... like, you, you go like, "I thought it was my fare."

Oh.

Yeah. I wonder if that would-

Oh, my.

I wouldn't want you... I would get you excused from my jury. That's what I would do.

Oh, my.

That is also a thing that has happened. You're a skeptical person here ... do you know what I mean? Like, people, people have done a crime and then got in an Uber. And, yeah, taxis, Ubers. And the Uber driver was like, "Guys, I, I t- I don't know this person at all." And they- But why did he give you five stars? Nobody gives five stars. [laughs] What crime would you commit?

I think already being a comedian, you're committing the biggest crime of them all.

Damn. By doing what?

Making them believe that what you say is real, you've thought about this.

to is the stand-up thing. Yeah. When did that start? I feel like- I don't know how... How long have you been stand- doing stand-up, Eugene?

Sure. Maybe [laughs]

[laughs] [laughs]

Man. [laughs] This man saw me just in time. If you had seen me [laughs] a year ago-

Two weeks before

... if you had seen me two weeks before-

Getting a dead body

... we wouldn't, we wouldn't even know each other like this. [laughs]

[laughs]

Like- Wait, what do you mean? What do you mean? Because I was like, you know, you start out and you're, like, a version of yourself, but you're like, you're such a baby in the things that you like doing-

Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah

... and you're such a baby in, like, what you, what you even know works for you. So now, if you gave me like 10 topics and you told me to write 10 jokes off of them- Yeah ... or if you asked me if they relate to 10 stories in my life, I could find that and I could find how that-

Mm

... relates to an audience. If you did it right before you met me, maybe the day before you met me, I'd be like, "Ah, um, ooh, I'ma, I'll just keep working at the grocery store because this seems too difficult." I don't know, man. I feel like maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like you've always been a... I, I can't imagine you not being, not this version of comedian, but not this pers- this version of Josh. Like, I, I'm yet to- Oh, sure ... I'm yet to meet a good comedian- Mm-hmm ... who I don't think I could meet as themselves-

Mm

... as a child. Oh, that's, that's

interesting. That's, that's very interesting. Like, what, like what- I've never heard that before ... like, what was little Josh like? You know what I mean? Yeah. It was... It... You know what it is now, to your point, is that I feel like I... It took me, if you wanna talk about, like, a journey, it took me up until now to find the place in the jigsaw where I fit in. Okay. So it's like I've changed the way that people change from kid to adult- Yeah ... but I haven't changed fully. And so, like, it was me not fitting for the entirety of my life up until, ooh, two years ago. Yeah, yeah. And now I, like, everything that... Everything I know to do that's, like, true to me makes sense now- Mm ... as opposed to, like, I was a version... Oh, I... 'Cause it... Ooh,

the story I told you, when I was in, uh, when I was in college, I went to, like, my first bar. And I was like, "Ooh, y'all, this markup bad. Y'all know if we just buy the bottle at the store- [laughs] ... we could have a b- we could s- y- y'all could get so much more drunk." Y'all just thought I speak easy. [laughs] And so I'm not even drinking, and I'm ruining everybody's [laughs] time because I'm like, "Guys, no, y'all saw at the store where this bottle was $13, but the cocktail $13. So, like, this is crazy, right?" And then everyone's just holding their drink like, "Yeah. Yeah." And I, now I know- Mm. And now I know where to do that. I like that. And it's like- Oh, yeah. Now you've aimed it ... and it... Now, now, now I've aimed it to where it's like I'm not doing it all the time to everyone to everything. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

And I've aimed it at like, "Okay, this is a thing you save for stage." [laughs] And not even every stage, 'cause when you do a comedy club, there will also be people being like, "Oh, yeah, they are making me buy two [laughs] drinks at an insane mark." This is what you save for, like, you're doing an outdoor event, you're doing a state fair. It's like your inside voice and stage voice. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's essentially what it is. 100%.

Do you apply the

same logic when you think of maybe you see a comedian or an actor, then you go, "You know your uncle tells the same stories, and you pay him nothing."

You mean, like, about the funniest people?

'Cause you edited the mock-up, yeah.

You know, I used to think that.

Mm-hmm.

And then I started to understand, at least for me, the difference between being a comedian and being a funny person.

Mm.

So I often tell people I'm, and I mean this genuinely, I'm not the funniest person I have known in my life ever, ever, ever. Like, by far, by far, by far.

Mm.

There are too many people in my world-

Don't be so hard on yourself, man

... where I go ... Thank you, Eugene.

I've, I've seen you. You have moments.

Thank you so much, Eugene.

When you put on the Puss in Boots.

Man, this is why you gotta have good friends.

[laughs]

Thank you, man. Thank you so much.

When you're also in your insecure moments-

Oh, man, I-

... I think you're the funniest.

Thank you so much, Eugene.

When you're like, "How's my Afro today?"

Oh, man.

"Did I get the back? Did I get the back?"

That ac- that ac- that actually wasn't a joke, but okay. Thank you.

[laughs]

Ooh.

That wasn't-

Actually-

While we're on the topic of the Afro, one thing I'm very jealous about with you is that ... 'Cause this is my thing. Look, look, just between us, right?

Yeah.

I was doing-

I'm here to-

My, I was, I was doing-

Between the, between us owls

... Yeah.

[laughs]

I was, like, I was, like, doing, I was doing a Afro for a long time-

Yeah

... and what I was doing was, like, not correct.

Oh.

Like, it was, it was, like, falling off of my head a little bit, 'cause it was getting so big-

Uh-huh

... that the right side was bigger than the left side.

Yeah.

And it was just ... It was ... My mom would tell me I looked like a spaceship, right?

[laughs]

And then, and then Trevor goes-

You know how bad your-

... all natural

... you know how bad your hair has to be for your mom to roast it? 'Cause moms are the last people-

Last

... to ever see anything wrong about you in life.

Yeah.

And your mom-

Mm

... was like, "Hey, what's going on spaceship boy? What's up? If the Battle Star hasn't arrived." [laughs]

I would go, I would go home, and my mom would ask me what the plan was. And I'd just be like-

And this is how bad ... Wait. Okay, so I remember, I remember this Afro.

has a good face, 'cause they're like, "There's no haircut worth..." [laughs]

Worth dying for.

No, no, no. You don't know, man. [laughs]

Worth dying for.

With, there are people where you... [laughs]

Josh is like, "Some of you should die."

No, no. I was just saying that, like, this is a person who's put together, where it's like, "Ah, it's just hair." There are some people that are hanging on-

Who depend-

... by a thread who are like, "My hair, my, my, my suit gotta be..." You know what I mean?

No, I hear you.

'Cause they just know they're working with less.

I hear you.

[laughs]

But what I'm saying is-

[laughs]

... this was death we were talking about. Remember this. This is death.

Yeah. No, I'm with you.

This is death.

People were going to booty calls, my man.

Yeah, and-

During COVID

... and what happened to some of them? They died-

[laughs]

... because of that.

Some of them have babies.

Okay. But some of them are dead.

COVID babies.

Some of them are dead.

And those, those things are wild.

Yeah.

Damn, Josh. You're a strong man.

[laughs]

I would feel so inse- You ... Josh and I used to roll, and we both had... At some point, it looked like the theme of the tour that we were on was unruly hair.

[laughs]

But Josh's hair got so big and weird that sometimes he'd be on stage, and you know when the camera's, like, got a shot of you?

Mm-hmm.

The background would be black.

Mm-hmm.

But Josh's hair was so big it had three different colors. The hair closest to his head was the darkest.

Yeah.

And then it would get lighter and lighter.

[laughs]

But because of the background-

Mm-hmm

... and the darkness of his hair, it looked like Josh had-

Oh, he had a hair hat

... there was nothing. No, it looked like there was nothing.

Yeah. And then on top of it-

And on top of it, it was like a floating... He looked like he was wearing one of those Russian hats.

Yes.

Yes, yes.

The furry hat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because-

You looked like you were wearing one of those Russian furry hats

... 'cause I did a thing that was just out of the pandemic that was like, um... It was at The Cellar.

Yeah.

And they did a live stream slash, like, like, taping of it. And [laughs] they had extra lights, 'cause they had cameras. And so then those extra lights, I saw it later, and I, I see what you were talking about. I was like, "Oh, this is..." And it, it-

It looked like you literally put on that hat. It was, like, your thing.

Yeah, yeah.

"Josh, you're on in five minutes." "Hold on. Let me get my hat."

nunchucks.

Yo, this man-

It, yeah, it was around then. [laughs]

Yo. Yo. [laughs] This man-

That's, this is when it's- it's a horrible time to meet a person, 'cause he met me during nunchucks, which is also just like, "Oh, this is the guy that does the nunchucks." [laughs]

That is one of the most random moments to meet a human being.

Two sticks with a chain. Why did you have nunchucks?

I was like, "Look-

[laughs]

... you can't have, you can't have a gun, but people are crazy in New York, and I'll do..." Like, we thought... Like, a lot of people thought it was, like, low-key the end of the world.

Yeah.

We were just being chill about it.

Yeah.

So I was like, "I need something."

And you thought nunchucks-

And I don't-

... were the solution

... and I can't get a sword.

Well-

And so, like, I'm like, "L- let me just have something that's, like, a little bit..." And then I saw the news report, 'cause there was a news report about how they had lifted... There was, like, a nunchuck ban in New York City.

Yeah, there was for a while.

And then-

A nunchuck-

... when they lifted it, I was like, I was like, "Hey, then we ride. And if I get good, then I at least get... It extends my safety one more arm."

[laughs]

Do you know what I mean?

Oh, wait, hold on.

I can defend myself one more arm's length away.

Just one further.

Yeah.

Here's the thing. Here's how I'll put it, okay?

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

The baton is more practical.

Mm-hmm.

The nunchuck is crazier. Would you rather fight someone who maybe isn't skilled?

This is what I'm talking about.

Or would you ma- rather fight someone who you know bites? 'Cause nunchuck is the bite n- it's like, I might hit you, I might hit me.

See.

I'm, I'm crazy. You never know.

That's why the, that's why there's a phrase called blunt instrument, 'cause anyone can use it.

[laughs]

What you have is, nunchuck is, requires a skill set. Me, if I'm angry enough with a baton, you are dead.

Yes.

You-

Yeah

... have to know a certain level of skill-

Mm-hmm

... to manage nunchuck, 'cause nunchucks are almost like a boomerang, 'cause people never account for the fact that you have to wait for it to come back.

[laughs]

It'll go, whoosh. And it only comes back-

Right

... if it doesn't hit anything.

Yeah. [laughs]

The boomerang goes, fo-fo-whoo, then it goes, goes f-

Yeah.

Oh, man.

Then you hold... Yeah, but nunchuck is the, hyah. Then you hope... Better believe that you're going to be hoping it hits something-

Yeah

... because it can also hit you.

Mm-hmm.

right now, the hair saved my life, because then I'm over here practicing, and I brought, I bought two practice ones. I bought one that was, like, foam.

Okay.

But the foam one is, like, is gonna break in a day.

Oh.

Like, you can't-

That's how dangerous these things are

... do you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

The, the foam one you can't... So then you have to use the wooden one, 'cause I was never gonna buy the metal one-

[laughs]

... 'cause the metal, the metal one you could [laughs] accidentally kill somebody. And now it's swinging from your hand, but you're like, "Uh, uh," and you wait for them to come-

But what do you mean accidentally kill someone? Aren't you trying to defend yourself?

Because, okay, the same way where you're trying to defend yourself and you know how to box-

So then I must throw this one first

... and then you, and then you, and then you punch somebody on the chin, right?

Yeah.

But you end up knocking them out, and they fall, and the way they fall, they die, right? It's like that could happen. The metal nunchuck is for murder. Like, like, that, that one I still don't think should be legal. [upbeat music]

We'll be right back after this short break. This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Eat well for less. You know how Thanksgiving always

sneaks up on you? One minute, you're eating leftover Halloween candy, and the next, everyone's arguing about who's making what for Thanksgiving dinner. Who are you talking to? Luckily, Whole Foods Market makes it easy to pull it all together. With great prices on turkey, sales on baking essentials, and everyday low prices from the 365 by Whole Foods Market brand, you can actually prep for the holiday without losing your mind or your budget. Yo, why are you speaking like that? They've got high quality organic produce and grab-and-go sides, which honestly save your life when you said you'd bring something and completely forgot to cook. Is this an ad? Did you just teleport us into an ad? The 365 brand is all about better everyday essentials, affordable pantry staples, baking must-haves, all the basics that still meet Whole Foods Market's quality standards. So whether you're hosting, contributing a dish, or just showing up hungry, Whole Foods Market has everything you need to make this holiday season easier and more delicious. We're sponsored. Shop everything you need for Thanksgiving now at Whole Foods Market. Can we go back to the episode? [upbeat music] What's the f- what's the first fight you were ever in as a kid?

Uh-

Like, the biggest, like, the fight you remember. Did you ever fight?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, well, fight implies a length that I made the fight continue. I was, like, beat up sometimes as a kid.

Yeah.

But, like, I would, I would, like, try to fight back.

Who was beating you up?

Just other kids. Like, it was ... And it wasn't even like-

Hmm. Were these, like, bullies-bullies or were these just other kids?

Two of them were, like, bullies-bullies.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, okay. Got it.

But, like, but the thing is, it's like the same awareness that I think a kid doesn't have of, like, where their elbow is, so they knock a glass over-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... is the awareness of, like, strength that I lacked for something I wanted to do. So, like, like, for instance, there was one time I, like, stood up to a bully. Like, I really, like, stood up to him, and it's like-

What was the ... Wait, wait, wait. W- sh- set, set the scene.

Yeah.

What was their name? We all remember our bullies' names.

Uh, I w- look, I won't say his name.

First name.

Yeah, I won't, I won't say his name, but it rhymes with, uh, uh, uh, wheat.

Okay. Wheat.

Okay. And so, so then-

Wheat

... you know, been picking on me. Been-

So, so Pete is the bully.

Sweeet.

We got, we got Pete or Wheat.

That's bad.

Sweeet.

You must know one.

Sweeet.

you are, you're timid in your vibe.

Sure, sure.

Like, just as Josh, like, a- as I've always known you, you're really considerate.

Hmm.

You-

Yeah

... you were perfect, like, bully fodder in that way.

Hmm.

And it doesn't help that I was always, like, re- like, when your head is down for reading, you're a perfect target for anything.

[laughs]

I'm, like, read- I'm, like, reading all the time.

[laughs]

I'm, like, reading for fun. And so now I genuinely don't know what's about to happen-

[laughs]

... until a book gets slapped out my hand. And then I look up, and I'm sure any bully that saw me was looking at me, and I was looking at them like Like, it just, 'cause I'm, the shock of like, "The book's on the floor. What's about to happen?" Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So, and I, and I don't think I, like, carried an awareness for defense enough ever really until, until maybe, like, I really became an adult. Hmm. Even being in Chicago, I was like, look, apparently, you know, especially when you go to, like, some, some clubs were, like, on the South Side and people would either, you would either know something happened or people would say something had just happened- Yeah ... at some point. And so I was like, "All right. Like, I'll be fine. I'll just run, and then whatever bullet hits me was meant for me." Do you know what I mean? You were never about that life. You were never like, "I'm gonna stand up, fight, do a thing, handle it," no? No. Even when I tried to, like, roll with other kids that were, like, tough, they were even like, "You're too sweet for this thing. Like, you're not like a tough..." Like, even kids in my neighborhood would be like, "Yeah, but you're not." Like... I like that for you. You know what I mean? No, I, I genuine- Look- You know? I look, I, I, at the time, I looked back on it as like, "Why is everybody, um, so..." What is it? "Why, why is everybody so, uh, like, patronizing?" Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now I look at it as, as if, like, almost, and, m- m- you know, whatever, this is gonna sound however it sounds, but it's

like almost by, like, some truly, like, divine design, everybody that was in my life was put in my life for a reason, helped keep me on the right path. Even when I wanted to do something bad, they, like, they, like, made it so it's like I didn't even have the opportunity. Like, I d- like, like, the, all these things came together. Even the people who, like, pushed me out of their life, it's like their life went in, like, a horrific direction, so it's like they pushed me, they li- they, it's almost like pushing someone out of the way of a car. Oh, yeah. I know what you mean. 'Cause I'm like- Yeah ... I'm trying to, like, roll with this kid or, or be like this kid, and then this kid is like, "Hey, this is, like, not for you," and then, and then something even ends up happening to that person or, or, or they go down a worse path or something. Hmm. So now everything that's happened, like, I can be nothing but, but grateful because, like, at the time I'm sure, especially when I used to... This is gonna sound self-deprecating, and it's not meant to be. Yeah. But, like, the realization that I've, I've come to about myself, and especially over time, is that, like, all of the things about me that I like and that people like are because I'm not, like, conventionally cool. Like, I'm not like a cool guy who is like, um, wow, I wanna be like that guy the way you wanna be like James Dean. Yeah. Like, I'm not that- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... I'm not that type of guy. Right. Okay. So if I, if I stop trying to be that type of guy and I just like, "Hey, look, I like Rubik's Cubes, I like comic books, I like..." And you just, you just become... It's, it's things we've been taught since we were little,

the best version of yourself, the best, like, the most honest version of yourself. That's where all of your, like, cool will come from because everyone who likes those things will be like, "Wow, you openly like those things." Like, I'm like, I'm over here doing the Rubik's Cube what it used to get slapped out your hand, and now people on the internet are like, "He did it in, do a .4 seconds." Like- Yeah, now it's become a- Yeah. But it's like- Hmm ... if you're, like, an O- if you're, like, an OG of that thing... And don't get me wrong, I wasn't even good. So now me, watch, watching me do the Rubik's Cube was a waste of time 'cause it wasn't like I was like, "Hey, Trevor, you wanna see something cool?" It'd be like, "Hey, Trevor, you wanna see something cool?" [laughs] Ah. Ah. Can you mess it up again? I can't, can I restart? [laughs] It's like, it's like that, but then, like I said, everything in life led me to the point, at least in the feeling- Hmm ... of about two years ago where everything fits into place. I f- I felt like I fit in at different points in my life. When I lived in Chicago, I f- and started doing comedy- Yeah ... I finally had the, like, conduit. I finally had the vehicle for all these things I had ever been and ever done- Mm-hmm ... and ever talked like and ever- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay ... and then found my people. And then moved into New York felt like, it did feel like a mistake for the first, like, six months. It did, like, genuinely it felt like maybe I had made a mistake until I got hired at Fallon. But every, everyone that I was meeting, I used to do storytelling open mics, comedy open mics. I used to do variety shows, like, all the stuff like that. Were you working at that time doing, like, a job job, as they

say? Yeah, I was, like, working at a grocery store. In New York? Yeah. Yeah. What type of grocery store? Uh, the Trader Joe's variety. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What were you doing there? What, uh- Everything. Like, I was a cashier. I did everything but fill orders 'cause I was like, "Y'all, if you make me..." [laughs] 'Cause they would try. Anytime you have a good attitude and, like, you're on time and stuff like, people start trying to give you more responsibility 'cause they're like, "This is the person that won't mess it up." But I'm like, "Y'all, I know my limit, and if you put me on freezer, y'all are gonna have 6,000 ice creams and no frozen turkey. Like, I'm just, I'm telling you that right now. I don't have that attention to detail," you know? And so I was, like, cashier, didn't wanna become a manager, didn't wanna become an assistant manager. Why not? Because in my head, I was like, I thought I had found, and I'm glad I was wrong 'cause I wouldn't be here now, but I've worked at a couple grocery stores, and I've worked, you know, odd jobs and stuff like that, and I found that, like, m- at least in most situations, I can be happy. And so I was making enough to live, but I hadn't met any of my goals yet, but I was still doing standup at night, and so I was, like, happy. Like, like, even in unhappiness happy, you know what I mean? Like, you deal with terrible customers or you, like, you're low on money, so you gotta eat. Dude, I've talked about this before, but I knew I was broke. In Chicago, when they put the door knocker thing for the pizza on there, my roommates and I, we see it's a deal 'cause this place just opened. Yeah. It's five, no, it's three pizzas for $15, so it's like every pizza $5, whatever. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. We each order a pizza. We get violently sick. And I knew I was broke, 'cause I was like, next day I'm like, "I'm gonna eat one more slice-

[laughs]

... and then I gotta be done with this place." But like in the off chance I was just sick.

[laughs]

And then my roommate's even like, "What do you mean you were just sick? We all threw

up." And [laughs] I was like, "Yeah, but look, maybe this slice will be different," and then I throw the box away.

[laughs]

But like I don't have money to just waste.

I gotta give this slice a chance, man.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I, I just found that I was happy. I w- I was so happy in Chicago literally just making ends meet, like [laughs] could not even save money, but I was doing standup at night and figuring myself out and everything. And I feel like now it's just a reminder to like stay in that place-

Mm

... even as circumstances change.

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because now it's like, okay, like, I'm not, I'm not, um, um, completely broke, but like what do I need? And it turns out I don't need much. If I can take care of my mom, and take care of my aunt, and just take care of like myself and my girlfriend, put on good shows, nothing else really matters, so that I don't really need that much money. Like, and so now if you don't need that much money, you don't need to do whatever, whatever, whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So now some of that noise gets like shut out a little bit. Because, like, yeah, sometimes you, you'll, you'll be in a situation where somebody wants you to do this thing, somebody wants you to do this thing, and if you don't really know what you want, you might end up doing it and not liking it or looking back on it and not liking it. And I'm not saying I love everything I've ever done completely, but like the, the path that the internet and the people that I'm meeting along the way have allowed me is to like do things that are completely consistent with how I feel about how my career should go and building a catalog that I think will like stand alone, like, like-

Yeah, yeah

... by itself.

Some- something that you're proud of because you wanted to do it for the reasons that you wanted to do it.

And-

Which, which is a unique moment to get to-

Yeah

... a- as an artist, but I think as any, any human on this planet. I was, I was thinking about it this morning, exactly what you're saying. I was, I was in the shower and I was going-

Hm? Hm?

Are you picturing me in the shower now?

[laughs]

So I was in, I was in the shower, and I, I had this thought genuinely where I was going, it's hard for people to understand, it's hard for any of us to understand this, because money is oftentimes the thing that connects you to all choice, power, um, whatever it might be.

Mm-hmm.

But pursuing money is almost the worst direction you can ever take, right? If you say to yourself in life, "I'm going to pursue money," you could just take money out of an old lady's wallet, then you've ... The money is there now.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Right?

Mm-hmm.

I think what we haven't been taught for the most part, because society doesn't oftentimes tell us enough, is that money, especially in a well-functioning society, money's a byproduct of a job well done.

Yeah.

You know? And so if you have the luxury of doing the thing that you love doing and you get to do it well, you'll find that money somehow slips into your ether. It, it, it, it starts to come in. And that's, like I say-

Mm

... in a well-functioning society.

Yeah.

As capitalism goes extreme and, uh, it, it-

Mm-hmm

... deteriorates in its late stage, people now can only earn money from certain things.

Hm.

But when I look at you, I go, it's, it's the perfect example. Like, you'll tell me if I'm wrong, but I feel like this version of Josh Johnson, like the person we know you as today, you couldn't exist the same if the internet wasn't what it is now.

No, no. I think-

Do, do you know what I mean?

I know exactly what you mean, and I think about that a lot, because I had found some, um, some mainstream and, like, legacy media success, but not enough to live the way that I'm living or make the choices that I make.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, I had done Fallon, I had done Conan, I got like a Comedy Central half-hour. I've done the route. Like, I got New Faces for JFL. Like, I did a lot of the route stuff you're supposed to do-

Yeah, you went-

... as like an up-and-comer

... yeah, because all the stations along the way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then there's a place that you end up, for some people it's after they do JFL New Faces, for some people it's after they get their half-hour, and for some people it's, like, even after they've been on a sitcom or something like that, where now there's like, there is no more up-and-coming. You're, you've, you've come.

Yes. Mm.

And so what does that-

anymore.

You're just like ... Yeah.

It's like, there's a, there's a point-

They give it to you one time.

Yeah.

And if you lose the time you're up for it-

That's it. You're done

... you're also not gonna ... You're just ... Look, I'm new to people.

Mm-hmm.

But I'm saying, like, the ways in which an industry could-

Elevate you

... pro- could, could elevate a person along the way, I had got a lot of that stuff, and then there was a gap between does he have his own show-

Mm

... is he writing a show? Is he selling shows?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

Is he a touring headlining comedian? Is he ... And so there was a gap there. The internet closed that gap, the people closed that gap, and that's why I have a bit more confidence. Because one thing I'll say about the era that we live in now versus even 25 years ago-

Mm-hmm

... is that the industry used to be able to close that gap for you. They're like, "You are, um, this A-list star, and we're gonna treat you like this A-list star when you're actually really young, just 'cause we, like, as a studio believe in you."

Yeah.

And you used to just be signed to, like, one studio.

Yeah.

And so anyway, the industry used to close that gap, but then if industry betrayed you, blacklisted you, you'll, you'll see C- McCarthy stuff, whatever.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Once that thing happened, you didn't have connection to the people. So even if the people liked you, they'd be like, "Oh, why haven't you been in a movie in forever?"

Yeah. You've been blackballed.

It's like, because no one picked up my calls and no one's calling me. But that can never happen again, because, like- If you, if you have connection to people and if you've

built community, then you'll always be a version of what you're doing now, especially if you're not doing it to be number one. And the thing that we're lucky about, th- what makes us different from sports, is that, like, there can really be no number one.

Yeah.

And so it's like, because there's no number one, you can just be, like, your number one. You can be, like, the best you.

Mm-hmm.

And for some people-

Hmm

... like, that... Like, for, for plenty of people, Trevor Noah is, like, the GOAT of comedy, right? And the... And it, it taps into their sensibility. Your timing is their timing of how they think. Your humor, it connects with everyone that, um, that follows you, that believes that you are, like, the best of all time. There's gonna be a Chris Rock is the GOAT, Dave Chappelle is the GOAT. Like, GOAT, GOAT, GOAT, GOAT, GOAT, GOAT, GOAT. But because it's not a foot race-

There is no clock

... as, as long as you don't... There, there's no clock.

Yeah.

So as long as you don't convince yourself-

Uh-huh

... that there's a clock, you can just carry on. You know what I mean?

Yeah. It-

And so it's like, I wanna be the best, like, comedic writer ever. I also know that's not gonna happen, but I know that it will happen in someone's mind that connects with my work, and that's enough. And I really want it to happen, and I want it to happen in the way where everybody says it. It's not gonna happen. But, like, at the same time, chasing that, now, like, money is, like-

But that's what I mean. You, you-

You know what I mean? Like-

It sounds to me like you fell in love with the process, essentially.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because the process, the process is, like, the reward that will always yield a return, right?

Mm-hmm.

If you fall in love with the process in your life, then the outcome just becomes the bonus at the end of it, you know?

Mm-hmm.

And I've seen this with friends who like cooking. Like, they try to get me into cooking because I like food. I like eating food.

Mm-hmm.

And then they would go like, "You should learn how to cook." And then when I would try to learn how to cook, e- even if it came out right at the end, I was like, "I don't like this."

Mm. Yeah.

I like eating the food.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Oh, it's just process.

You know how it is, man.

Yeah.

If you, if you can't handle the heat-

Yeah

... get out of the kitchen.

Oh.

[laughs]

You don't sweat when you cook. Maybe that's why I'm not-

What are you guys cooking?

Just anything. Hot food.

No, give me an example of what you made that made you go, "Yay."

Okay, one, one day I was trying to make a stew.

Mm-hmm.

I've only tried it once.

Yeah.

And one time I was trying to make a stew, and it just involved me with a pot, with water, with ingredients, with a thing. I had to keep-

Did you close the lid?

I, I... No, I had to keep opening the lid to see what was bubbling. I had to keep closing the thing, opening it.

That's normal. That's part of cooking.

Yeah. And in that process-

How close were you to this lid?

I, I wasn't measuring, Eugene. I wasn't measuring my distance to the-

[laughs]

Maybe this is why I'm not a good cook.

[laughs]

I was just, like, opening and closing, opening and closing.

It would be very funny if you were later there too close.

Yeah. [laughs]

And you were like, "Man, cooking is hot."

while you were eating $5 pizza and told you, "Just enjoy, just enjoy the process, not about the money."

Yeah.

My man.

No, that is what people said.

Yeah.

They were like, that's, like, that's-

And what did you feel? [laughs]

No, but I'm, I guess I'm, I'm thinking also, one- once again from privilege.

Mm.

It's either privilege or experience. 'Cause I think saying fall in love with the process is a thing that comes from the experience of, like, if you have... Sometimes it's just good advice from somebody who did it the other way. So yes, it's from, like, a point of privilege to say, like, "Don't worry about money." And I'm not saying don't worry about money. I'm saying people have put me in a position where I don't worry about money the same way.

Mm.

So I'm, I'm not-

And I'm, and I'm also saying-

Yeah.

I'm also saying-

Mm-hmm

... I don't necessarily... I think it might be a luxurious way of experiencing your own mind, but I don't think it's an unattainable luxury, right? And here's, here's why I'll say this. When you started comedy, if you remember your journey, it was not paying anything.

Mm.

Comedy literally paid us no... There wasn't even an idea of the possibility. When we were doing comedy in South Africa, starting out, the, the concept of getting paid by anyone or anything-

We paid to do comedy.

Yeah, we paid to do comedy.

Mm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

There wasn't even, like, a, "20 bucks, well done, k-..." No.

Mm.

That came over time.

Mm.

Right? But we fell in love with the process, and I... What I mean by that is I don't think everything has to be contained in one space.

Right.

Right? So when you look at somebody who likes knitting, mm, I would always, I would always be fascinated watching somebody knit.

Mm-hmm.

sometimes who are the ones that'll make you... The ones who can do it in those moments, they're sometimes the, the, the people who inspire me the most because they can and they do. Like, when my family was at its worst, you know, my mom loved gardening. We didn't have anything. We did, like, literally, I remember nights where it's like we're eating mopane worms because it was, like, the cheapest thing-

Mm-hmm

... we could buy. It's like a dried caterpillar type. Or how would you... Is it caterpillar?

Yeah.

Yeah. That's, like, the only thing we could afford for a moment. Then at some point, we, it, we couldn't even get mopane worms. All we could get was morogo.

Mm.

That was, like, it. And this isn't, like, a long, it's not years in my life, but, like, a few months. I just remember we couldn't afford meat, and we couldn't afford a, a certain type of protein.

Mm.

And so now we're buying, like, grass essentially, is how it seemed to me as a kid.

[laughs]

Because when you introduced this to me late in life, I'm just like, "This is-

Oh, yeah, they're eating kale and quinoa all day.

It's ironic, by the way.

Yeah.

'Cause I remember the first time someone came with kale in America, then I was like, "I'm not going back. I, I escaped this trap. I'm not going back to this."

It's so good. Mm.

But morogo and kale are very... I still think, like, a, you know what I mean?

Yeah. [laughs]

But the thing that amazed me was she still found joy in her processes. Just doing something in a garden.

Mm.

Going and, and, and, and I, and I think, like, that's, that's what you're talking about. Like, when I listen to you-

Yeah

... there's an element of Josh Johnson that's just like, you're just, like, obsessed and in love with the process-

Yeah, 'cause-

... that you're pursuing

... 'cause then it's like the thing, I gue- I guess if you were to put yourself back in different moments, right? Because don't get me wrong, I am never, I am never, it's never lost on me

that, like, I am the exception and not the rule. And so I even tell people, I'm like, "Look, everybody's on their own journey. I don't want you to think that, like..." There's, there's some aspect of, "If I can do it, you can do it," and then there's also an aspect of, "If I can do it, you can do it," being weaponized to keep people in a bad position.

Yeah, I, I hate that if I can do it-

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Because it's like, 'cause people have said that to me who were tall.

[laughs]

And now I'm like, "What do you mean, dunk?"

[laughs]

And they're like, "Look, you work hard enough."

[laughs]

"You work on your game. If I can do it, you can do it." Swish. And then I'm like, "All right, I believe you." And then brick, brick, brick, brick, brick, because I, because I actually-

Mm

... can't. And I also, to be fair-

Mm

... don't love basketball enough to, like, learn and fall in love with process enough-

Yeah

... to even see if I can, right? But now if you're talking about, if you're-

Mm

... if you're talking about a, a, a system where people can make their money or just have, like, a life, there's just, it's-

Have what they want

... it's so much more profitable to keep that as a carrot that you hang in front of someone than it is to just let them have it. Because if everyone's okay, less people are, are rich, which is, like, a side note thing.

Mm.

But the process thing that I'm fall in love with and that I think is, like, so important, is that it started so much longer before anything was working out. The same way that, like-

That's the best, yeah. That's the best, man

... I've been my, like, the way that I've been myself and, like, weird, and it didn't, oof, didn't work for, like, all of life until, like, a little bit of college it worked. 'Cause a little bit of college I'm finally meeting people who are also kind of like me. Then it worked in Chicago. I started doing comedy. That's the, that's the thing I should've been doing this entire time. Then it worked for a little while in New York, and then, like, I had my ups and downs, and now it works in a big way because I'm finally, like, doing everything I think that I was meant to do.

Yeah.

And so the s- reason I say-

There's that word, meant to do. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Mm.

I, this is either a waste of my time, which means it's a waste of my life, or it's my life. So now I'm, I'm just here. So then let me talk to this person, ask them how their day is. Let me, like, like, have you had these? 'Cause I haven't had these. I know that's bad to say 'cause I work here, but, like, are these good? 'Cause I'ma get them if they..." And now I've become the person that's personable enough that people got in my line.

Mm.

And so now you build a, a, a rapport with these people, and then when I'm over here stocking the freezer, stocking the fridge, I'm thinking about bits or I'm thinking about what people said to me.

Yeah.

So now when I go up in Chicago, everyone's like, "Oh, you don't ever repeat," or, "You don't have..." And it's like, 'cause I'm excited about, like, I'm excited about what this thing is that happened today, or I'm excited about building on this idea that I had last week but now I've reworded it.

Mm.

Or, like, whatever. And so it seems like a wealth of, like, "Oh, you must just be writing all day," and in my head I was like, "I am, but I'm not." Like, it just came from such a genuine place. It didn't become more, like, proper, proper writing until Fallon. 'Cause I was a monologue writer at Fallon.

That's when you had to get into the craft of it.

And that's when. Now it's, like, 150-

Yeah

... jokes a day-

Yeah

... or, you know, like, or you're just, you're even writing... W- when I was at Fallon, I was try- I was so thirsty to get a joke on. I was writing jokes in the hope that, like, Jimmy got lost in the building and then, like, wandered in my office and was like, "Hey, what-" How you doing? I'm like, "Oh, I'm great. I got a whole page of jokes." You know what I mean? Like, I'm, I'm like going crazy. 'Cause also it's like your first job, so you're extra and like-

And it's a major job. I mean, that one, yeah

... major job, yeah. And then I got hired at Daily Show. Like, when you hired me, I was like, okay, this is a chance, especially because of how collaborative the process is, this is a chance to take everything I've been writing, all the ideas I'm always having, all the conversations that I have, and like hopefully apply them in real time

to whatever the news of the day is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

Right. Right.

And then it like ... Yeah, I was writing at Daily Show, which then taught me how to tell stories better of things that people had no context for. So, like, watching you, I was able to be like, "Oh, you know what? Like, there's this thing that happened to me that people won't, um, have any frame of reference for."

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

How do I tell them about that? So when you would talk about South Africa or when you would talk about your travels, and you're talking to Americans, who are the perfect audience of, like, untraveled people.

[laughs]

Like, everything is new.

[laughs]

They'll be like, they'll be like-

[laughs]

... "Malta? Is it chocolate?"

[laughs]

They like, they ... You know, we don't know, 'cause it's like ... 'Cause also you, you were the first person that, like, showed me how big the world was in a way. And like, talking to you, talking to Sela Boho, talk, talking to all these people showed me how, how [laughs] well the world gets on in spite of and sometimes without the U.S. Because grow-

Damn

... 'cause growing up here, you're like, this is the, this is the lie that keeps things the way they are-

Mm

... maybe forever, is that you are taught that the U.S. is number one. It ... We're number one because we deserve it. We're number one on merit, but we're also number one in everything. And so if anything is bad here, best believe it's worse somewhere else in the world, 'cause they're not even as good as us. So if you, if you are hungry in America, imagine how hungry you'd be in Mexico. Imagine how hu- ... And you could even point at other Western countries. It's like they would do ... Uh, like I had teachers that would do this-

Yeah

... where they'd be like, "Australia nice and everything, but what did they build? What did, what, what inventions do they have?"

Yeah.

Like, because it teaches you to have, like, like, being ... I don't even know where you learn it, but, like, being the center of entertainment especially, and entertainment being such a strong, um, like a strong conveyor

of stories-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... and stuff like that, it teaches you a sort of American excellence that probably even used to be earned but then has slowly been slipping away over time.

Mm.

And now your assumption is that no matter how bad things get here, we could have, like, a civil war, and you'd still point at another country and be like, "Well, they're having a coup." And it's like, yeah, but look at the 99 other countries that are fine today-

Mm

... on, like, a regular Wednesday.

Mm-hmm.

And so rather than teaching you out of your supposed, like, excellence and number one ... 'Cause it's also a very inconvenient truth that, like, the number one title comes from, like, just like a boxer who's number one and has a team that's built up of people from all sorts of backgrounds with disciplines, there's a number one-ness that gets lost in that, oh yeah, well, we needed the scientists to come here. We needed the engineers to come here.

Yeah.

We taught some of our people, but then they went over and learned from other people and then came back.

Yeah.

Number one is just number one 'cause we're number one. And so then that keeps people in the thing of, like, you'll see where s- another country, another Western country as well, so you don't even have to worry about, like, communism, socialism, whatever. Another Western country will figure something out, and we still won't change, because the idea of looking at someone else as an example is unacceptable. And so being around you and being around people who had, like, a different experience of life, being around Joe Opeio, being around all these people was the first time that

I was like, not only is, like, the world obviously much bigger, but, like, comedy is so much bigger. 'Cause now I ... Like, it made me curious enough to, like, start watching comedians where I just needed the subtitles, 'cause I was just like-

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

... I was like, let me just, like-

Yep, Joe Opeio subtitles.

[laughs]

I'm with you.

[laughs]

We gotta get a dig in at Joe. Come on, man. [laughs]

But that's ... But like, so every ... Uh, I said all that to say that, like, it's not-

All of that?

It's not ... No, no.

[laughs]

It's like, it, it's not lost on me that not only have I been incredibly fortunate-

Yes

... I've been given a lot of opportunities, and then even within those opportunities, I was, like, put in the right place at the right time to have the right experience to-

Yeah

... make what I'm doing now possible. You know what I mean?

And that's the pa- ... See, that's the part where whenever you get great advice about pursuing your passion, the ... No one ever says at the end, "That's the long way of saying do the thing that you can when you can, then someone might select you to be the person that can-

Yeah, yeah. Yeah

... and ends up becoming-

Yeah

... the person that will." And also what I realized was when you are telling your story, 'cause I worked in retail for a long time, and I realized I had the most amount of fun doing comedy when I was in retail before I knew it was comedy.

Mm-hmm.

There was no pressure.

Yeah, no industry.

You had to refresh your jokes. Yeah, there's someone coming in, in and out all the time, but they've seen you so many times, and you-

Mm-hmm

... you can't say the same thing to them. And there you are now at Fallon. Now you're doing this thing for a living.

Mm-hmm.

And they've said to you, "You don't have to worry about the money now. Just, just do this thing." And then all of a sudden it becomes difficult. And I thought there was a phase where comedy was making fun of people

that are doing their best to try and survive. You know, there would be times where we'd be like, "Hey, imagine if you, you guys coming back from work. Hey, work. How's work? Ooh, every day, traffic." And I'm like, yo, when did we get here?

Mm-hmm.

Like, I started hating the way I was doing some comedy, 'cause I would ... And I'd realize it was all about, for me personally, it was about fitting in. Because even in retail when you're working there, you realize that you're not fitting in here. Then when you get out, you're like, "How shitty was that job?"

Mm-hmm.

But it came with how people measure success maybe. You know, someone-

Yeah. Yeah

... you know?

And it also just comes from a place of, like, this is how you're supposed to feel.

Yes.

And it's like if you keep falling for how you're supposed to feel-

Mm-hmm

... I mean, that's, that's very convenient for someone. You'll keep buying what you're supposed to buy. You'll keep, you'll keep-

Mm-hmm

... voting for who you're supposed to vote for. You'll keep ... And then you, you just have to ... It, it, there's a level of curiousness that I understand that when you're hungry-

Yeah

... 'cause I've been hungry.

Yep.

When you're hungry, you're thinking about hungry. So you're not thinking about-

Mm-hmm

... some of this, like- The hoity-toity stuff. And it doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't make you a dumb person-

Yeah. Yeah.

It doesn't make you less than. It's just literally that's wh- that's why it's so convenient and so important to keep, to keep you, like, n- not just down, but, like,

to keep a controlled... I, I started working on this bit a long time ago, and I did not, like-

Mm-hmm

... finish it in a way that's, like, worth it. Maybe I'll get there one day. But I'm like, you don't get paid to do your job. You get paid not to riot. They pay you just before a riot.

Yes, but you-

If they paid, if they paid you any less, you'd riot, and they know that.

Yeah.

So they're like... Because you gotta remember, e- especially in the US, we did have slavery, and they've slowly been trying to get back. As s- like, as soon as they lost it, they were like, "That was some good stuff."

Mm.

That's crazy. It's like, it's like having adamantium in the, uh, in, in, in Black Panther.

In Wakanda, yeah.

Yeah. And so it's like imagine they took all of it away, you gotta use regular metal now. And you're like, "Guys, I'm getting shot."

[laughs]

Like, this is, this ba- it's getting through, right? So now-

Mm

... so now I'm, I'm coming from a place of, like, I understand that even e- even if the... We're not even gonna get, like, conspiratorial with it, right?

Mm.

Even in the way that we say left and right works as a function to keep us at the, the tug of war and the, and the middle of the rope in the middle. Because the fact that, like, there's... It can't be lost on us that, like, somehow every one, as in one person-

Mm-hmm

... is a full representative of the right. And every one person, just one person-

Mm-hmm

... is a full representative of the left.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

So based on algorithms, after something happens, something, something, uh, what- what- whatever, whatever you wanna picture, you are, by algorithm and by who you've chosen to follow, either served contempt or compassion.

Yeah.

And you are served contempt or compassion, as in that is the way it is. This is your window into the internet.

Mm-hmm.

And your window isn't wrong, but it's not the full picture.

Mm-hmm.

So then you'll say, "Everyone on the left is doing this. Everyone on the right is doing this,"

and then someone who argues with you, they saw a different mix. They saw a different cocktail of compassion-

Mm-hmm

... and contempt. So now they are being like, "No, that's not happening. This is what's happening." Both are happening. Everyone is everything. You can have QAnon or Bluenon or whatever, and I'm not making, like, false equivalencies. I'm just saying that, like, we're all capable of, of, like, everything. That's what makes a person-

Yeah, yeah

... a person. And so I think that keeping you there keeps you broke. Keeping you there keeps you, like, you know, complying without realizing you're complying. Or, like... And so when someone especially is trying to, like, follow a passion, and someone says, "Don't necessarily worry about the, the money," you're gonna be worried about something. 'Cause now that I'm not worried about the money, I worry about the quality. You know what I mean?

Yeah. There's always gonna be something that you want to do.

Yeah, but so, so, like, so-

Mm

... that, that is a thing that, like, pops out at me where I'm like, I don't know when I'll be like... Because you don't... Like, your body tells you when you get old. You're not, you don't say a number and go, "I'm old now."

[laughs]

You get out of bed and you pop.

Okay, let's go-

And you're like, "I'm not used to popping."

Let's, let's go back to com-

And that's what quality does.

There we go. Let's go back to complying. You said-

Mm-hmm

... say that thing you said again about complying. We don't, we're trying to resist to comply?

No. It's just what keeps you complying is that, like, it's very easy. If, like, if Trevor wants something, right?

Mm-hmm.

And what he, and what he wants is t- the, the last slice of pizza, right?

Mm-hmm.

It's very easy for him to get that last slice of pizza that we could all three have if he keeps us distracted fighting about the pizza.

Mm-hmm.

Me... Now I'm looking at you, you're looking at me, and he's eating.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Mm-hmm.

And I feel like that's how a larger portion of every political game and every, uh, like, socioeconomic game works. And I think that by me being, you know, left and you being right, and us arguing and only focusing on each other, you forget that, like, we were initially fighting over the pizza. And now where's the pizza? It's gone. Well, it's gone 'cause it's your fault. No, it's your fault.

You know, I think-

Do you know what I mean?

I think society made that argument very easy for politicians and people who run countries after COVID, 'cause we got to see what class really is.

Yeah. Yeah.

It, it happened

in real time. Uh, rich people did not die in droves. Um-

'Cause we also saw Madonna in that bathtub, and I was like, "That's gonna radicalize somebody."

Yeah. Some countries and some people-

Madonna being in that bathtub [laughs] -

During COVID

... and then her being like, "Ugh, we're all going through it."

[laughs]

I'm like, "Not the bathtub."

Oh, man. Oh, man.

[laughs] That's... Guys, if I-

Where was Madonna?

I need you, I need... I'm telling you right now-

[laughs] Oh, man

... if we're ever having a global crisis, and I post a video in a bathtub talking about how we all struggling, I need you to call me.

There were a lot of people-

I need you to call me and-

Yeah. There were a lot of people who were out of touch in that moment. Yeah, but, but I'm saying that in a grand scale, that's what you're-

Yeah

... experiencing as inequality and someone having to look at the other side and go, "I'm stuck here."

I'll even pitch you this.

Mm.

Take, take, uh, like, any sort of, like, Hollywood example, acting, comedy, whatever, right?

Yeah. Mm.

[laughs] This is, this is also how it happens. I'm not speaking to the merits of anyone's talent. I'm just saying what I've noticed-

Mm-hmm

... is that there will be a certain amount of positions. There'll be, like, the DEI positions, right? And you can also tell that the DEI position... But as people get at DEI, this is the thing that tells people, like, "This is how many we're gonna do." [laughs]

It's like a quo- it's the quota.

Yeah. It's like, this will be the quota.

Yeah.

So I don't even know why you get mad at DEI, 'cause they've already basically said, "We'll only get 20. So, like, you won't have to worry about them taking your job. Maybe you, but, like, as a large swath of the industry, we're gonna let 20 in," right? So now people are mad at these, like, DEI jobs, jobs only established to try to, like, find some sort of base. All the stuff. All the stuff we already know. But then people are mad at them. These people now feel like they have to prove themselves. They're mad at the, you know, the other people coming at them and everything.

and there is no, um, there is no number that is capped For the amount of, like, legacy kids that get into the right colleges or nepo babies that get the job-

No, absolutely

... or whatever. And it's like, it's like that thing, obviously some, some people are waking up to that fact and being like, "Oh yeah, why are there only 20 spots for anybody?"

Yes.

Forget DEI.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

Yes.

Right, right.

And it's like that, but that's also part of the game.

But that's what-

So-

... a quota does. A quota exposes how many spots are no longer available to those it was available to before.

Yeah.

That's why we have affirmative action.

That's true. That's true, actually.

So now you can quantify it, you can count. Oh, 20 people used to be there, now they're not anymore because these people are there. Quotas are never about if the person can do the job or not because I'll tell you this much, people who are put in because of affirmative action will never outnumber the people that were there already. It will never be 50/50. It will never be 50 you were here legacy, 50 you are new, we're just putting you in. 'Cause then you could measure how did the quality of work drop since the new people came in. But if you put 20% in and the other 80%, they stop performing their duties because they're disgruntled by the people that they feel like they don't deserve to be there, then that's when the quality of work drops, then you can always blame it on the new guy.

Sure. Sure.

You know, you know what I love listening to this-

Mm.

Like, these are always the moments when somebody, like, walks into a room and there's comedians talking, and then I'll always hear them say, "I, I thought you guys told more jokes."

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, no, no. I've always wondered. I, I was just listening to you guys now-

[laughs]

... and I was like, it's, it's really interesting to me how comedians, no matter where they are in the world, will always get into the ...

Is it the anomalies? Is it the inconsistencies? Is it the ... D- do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah.

Mm.

Maybe it's just like-

Yeah.

No, I was just listening to this now-

Mm

... and I was going, it's, it's funny how ... Because comedy ... Let, let's think of it this way. Because comedy is like the icing on a cake, it's sweet.

Mm.

It's generally very delicious. It's, it's easy to consume and people often think that the raw ingredient for it is also that in that way, and I know sugarcane is. Please don't get me wrong.

Mm.

But I'm just saying, I'm watching this right now.

Mm-hmm.

And, and ... No, no, forgive me. It, it made me wonder. It's like, I wonder if, like, you get into comedy because you're seeing an inconsistent world, or if part of comedy helps you process the inconsistency of the world.

Maybe. I mean, I imagine-

Mm

... it's like if you, if you're a singer, right? And you're like, "I can do something real weird with my throat."

Yeah.

"I can do something real weird with my voice." And then you do it to drums, and people are like, "I think I'd pay to see that." It's like, it's like you-

No, but I mean the, I mean the think-

... you fall into the thing sometimes

... No, but I mean the thinking of it. Like, okay, let me ask you this question. When, when was the first time in your life when you can remember thinking, "This didn't make s- this doesn't make sense"?

Uh, okay. So [laughs] you know how [laughs] ... This is ... Two moments that stick out to me. Uh, you know how the dentist gives you a lollipop?

Yeah.

[laughs]

You see? There you go.

And I was like, "Hey, my man."

It's related.

"My man, what you doing? What are you ... You trying to catch me slipping? I didn't have any cavities, and now you're giving me sugar?"

[laughs]

at 7:00 about, "Oof, it's so bad out there."

That's fascinating. So you-

Mm

... you were thrown by the fact-

Mm.

I mean, it's ... You see, it's extremely logical as well.

Mm.

Because you're going, "It's not burning outside."

No.

Mm-hmm.

It's not even, it's not even ... The sun is not even out anymore.

Yeah, it's daytime in the news.

Yes.

But it's n- it's nighttime now.

Yes. And everyone who was supposed to do their job did it. The firetrucks were there. The cameras were there. The reporter filed the story.

And so you were sitting there-

They put on a jacket. Yeah.

That's a crazy-

In fact, in fact, in my head, I was like-

That's so funny

... "The reporter that reported on the story is also home watching the news now."

You know what's so funny about this-

Mm

... is that it's the third level of the thing. I thought you were just gonna say-

Mm

... "Why they believing everything? 'Cause people lie sometimes." That's just even much more of a child thing.

Yeah, no, no.

You're like-

He's like-

You're like, "No, no. The car that was on fire has clearly been extinguished by now," like [laughs]

it is bad out there." And I'm like, "No, it's great in here. We're watching these people. Our car is not burning."

And that's when your-

"Our house is not on fire."

So your brain at that point is just going, "This doesn't make sense."

Yes. And also because I think when I started exploring comedy, I realized that's what people are doing. They're reacting to something that I say that's not real. I say things, and then they're like, "Yeah, neh." Then I'm like, "Yeah." And I think that's why maybe we see comedians unable to, uh, fight extremism, uh, when people are being extreme about their views and ideas and rallying people and filling up arenas and domes, and people are just coming to listen to them in social media. We can't say anything. We can't fight that because we're essentially doing the same thing, but we're doing it on a happy side. We're galvanizing people to come into a room to laugh, but there's, on the other end of it, it has never been like it is now, where you find in the other side of things, the same arena-

Oh, that's, that's-

... two weeks from now-

I, I would agree with that, actually

... there's someone who's going-

Yeah

... "We are getting the guns. We are going to fight. Yeah, yeah."

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There, there's a, there's a, there's a different type ... It's ... Oh, man, that's an interesting thought. There is, like, a- It feels like at least more and more places in the world have an economy or there's like a, a circuit around anger-

Mm-hmm

... and hatred in a way that it didn't exist-

Yes, because tro-

... for a long time

... troublemaking, thanks to stand-up, has become performative. So if you look at all the rallies of all people stirring up what we call trouble.

Yeah.

They also have a stage.

Yeah.

They don't have-

And they tell jokes, by the way.

They-

Mm-hmm

... and now they don't have paper anymore in their hand.

Yeah, yeah, no, they tell jokes as well.

They mess around, play music a little bit, mess around, and get people worked up.

Yeah.

And all of this-

Some of them tell the same jokes.

used to say that, and it didn't work. I used to say it. Didn't work."

Yeah.

"Now it works."

Mm-hmm.

The one that he had was, um, I'm trying to think of which one he had. It, I think it was Crooked Hillary.

Mm-hmm.

Or one of those. But he had a previous version.

Yeah. Cricket Hillary. [laughs]

And he had a, and he had a version that was like, it didn't hit.

Mm.

But he found the one.

And then he found, like-

The hook

... a switch.

Mm.

And he changed it. But he said, which was interesting to me, he said-

Mm-hmm

... at a rally.

Yes.

"I used to say it like this, and people didn't respond."

Yeah.

"Now I say it like this, and they do respond."

Yes. But stand-up was the original research and development of how to become extreme in an idea. When people say, "Okay, there's no paper, just a microphone, just stage."

Yeah, yeah.

"Just give me a group of people."

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

"Don't sit down, even. Just stand up. Let's do this thing." Because music did not have the same impact as now when you have a singular person trying to convince a horde of people to take action, but the action now is the other way around. It's no longer just go home and be happy.

It's not, it's not an action to happiness.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

is doing a lot to remind people how shitty their lives are. Whilst we would make fun of a, of someone who has a normal 9 to 5 job, these people are saying, "Why do you have a normal 9 to 5 job?" [upbeat music]

Don't press anything. We've got more What Now? after this. [upbeat music] It's amazing how-

Yeah

... powerful it is when you switch it. I, you know, it's funny. I, I, I, just, you know, because you, you, you are in a moment right now, um, that, that's amazing, and it's new, and it's, it's, it's obviously being looked at from so many different places. You know?

Mm.

So, like, it's Josh Johnson, the magazines look at you, the, the entertainment industry looks at you. And then people often phone me, and they go, "What do you think of what Josh is doing?" And they all have a different lens through which they wish to see it.

Mm-hmm.

You know, "What do you think it means for the entertainment industry? What do you think it means for comedy? What do you think it means for..." And I remember once, I was trying to think of this for myself, and I went, one of the things you're doing with your stand-up, like the sets that you're doing now every single week on YouTube, is, in a crazy way, I was like, you're also just, like, establishing a bit of reality. I don't know if you've noticed that, and I, I don't know if you're doing it on purpose.

I mean, some people say that. What I'm trying to do is be like, this thing, like, what we have become-

Mm

... I think is a problem.

Mm-hmm.

Like, as comedians.

Mm-hmm.

And what we mean to people.

Yeah.

And what we, and, and, and how we, like, structure our careers around that thing. I think that people are playing games right now that are gonna, gonna bite them eventually,

where you play with people who are struggling.

Mm-hmm.

You play with people who are, like, based on, like, even no fault of their own, but a, a, a systemic level, they are mentally unstable. You play with people-

Mm-hmm

... whose only hope is something that is, like, you know, in the ether as a conspiracy.

Yeah.

You play with all that. You make your money, and then you think you go home. But especially if you're chasing money, especially if you like money, and especially if you can't stay at home, you keep doing it, and you keep doing it, and you keep doing it. And then you, you become a different thing to them than you can ever get back.

Mm-hmm.

Do you know what I mean?

Oh, wow.

And so, so, like-

Yeah

... I think if I stay as, as much of a stand-up as I can, and obviously sometimes I talk about politics, but my thing is that I talk about everything. So the people who think that I talk about one thing, I can tell what videos they've watched. I've been told by people that I only talk about Black culture. Then I've t- been told by other people I only talk about Trump. Then I've been told about, from other people-

Yeah

... that I d- I do, like, regular jokes again.

Yeah.

Then I g- am told by people that they're like-

Mm

... "I love your stories. I love this story," whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's like, I, I don't think, and this is, I'm not upset about or whatever, but I don't think that people are fitting into the picture that I am trying to-

Mm-hmm

... and as a result, talking about everything.

Yeah, but you see, this is, this is-

Yeah.

I do get upset about it, not just on your behalf-

Mm-hmm

... but on society's behalf.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. One of the best things I ever learned was from a friend who was a computer scientist, and he taught me about a concept known as the Second System Effect. And he said, "Whenever you're programming, one of the things you learn as a coder is when you change one aspect, you might think you're fixing one thing."

But then we get to the point of the algorithm, and the algorithm does this on steroids.

Mm.

It becomes super, super, super tuned to getting as few people as possible, or rather as many people as possible, an opportunity to talk to as many people as possible, and you, you, like, cut down where the message goes from and who it goes to. It's like every- it's diffused, you know what I mean? It's like everyone can say it to everyone everywhere. But then what it also does is it says, "I'm just gonna give you this slice of the reality." You know what I mean? So now Josh Johnson's out there trying to be the full human being who is Josh Johnson.

Mm-hmm.

The algorithm goes, "I notice, Trevor, that you really like Josh Johnson's stories about hair. I'm gonna just go give you all of his hair stuff. Just you and, you and him, afros. That's all I'm giving you."

Mm.

And then it goes, "Eugene, I notice you, you like the thing when Josh Johnson was talking about working in a grocery store. I'm just gonna give you his retail stuff."

Mm.

And now you extrapolate this into politics and views on the world.

Mm.

And what's crazy and terrifying to me is that there's a person out there who only knows one slither of Josh Johnson, and as you said, they either have contempt or compassion for that person or that side of you.

Right.

And I go f- as we get to the second system effect of everything going to everyone in the most perfect way, you don't have one big broadcast-

Yeah

... you have a billion small broadcasts.

Yeah.

But those billion small broadcasts are only your world now. And where before you had to s- share a world where a car was burning for everyone, your family's watching the news.

Yeah.

Now you watch the news, you watch the news, you watch... Everyone in the house is watching different news, but they're all living in the same house.

Yeah.

And I, I, I genuinely, the reason I'm upset about it is, not like anger, I'm like, I'm almost terrified-

Yeah

... 'cause I go, "What does, what does that do to us when we don't see the full complexity of each other?" Like, you and I talk about this all the time. I go, "I, I wanna live in a world where more people see friends disagree."

Hmm.

Because we make it seem like people disagree because they don't live in the same world. You know, like when you walked in-

Mm

... today, we were watching videos on the internet about mediums and psychics and all of that stuff. And I said to you as my friend, I was like, "Emma, I don't believe this, but there's also something here that I don't get."

Mm-hmm.

"There's something I don't get, and I, I'm not, I'm not gonna say it's not real, but I this, but I, I'm letting you know my current position is I don't believe this." And then you're going, "I do believe this, and let me tell

you why," and we're sharing this. We, but we don't exist on, you know, like opposite ends of anything.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

There are some parts of you that are far away from me.

Mm.

And there are some parts of you that I can't separate from my own skin.

Right.

We are the same in that way.

Yeah.

And that, that's a big thing that worries me is I go, imagine if somebody like Josh Johnson, who in my opinion is one of the kindest, most caring, most considerate people, imagine if they could slice you into slithers of an idea. What are they doing to the rest of everyone in a society? Do you know what I mean?

Sure, and also through the structure of, like, what keeps you on, they follow behavior.

Mm-hmm.

So because they follow behavior, we assume that everyone always wants to be agreed with.

Yeah.

Some people actually, and the algorithms have already figured this out, 'cause it happens to me, it's like some people through being curious about what other people think are served nothing but b- bad, like, I would just say bad stuff that I don't agree with.

Oh, man, that, that happens to my Twitter.

So then-

Yeah

... it's like, it's like, I, it, it then makes me feel like, oh, everyone's so angry and hateful-

Yeah

... and every-

Yeah

... and then, then this, okay. No one, no one's on board with this idea. I've talked about this idea with friends.

Can you app-

I did this idea at a show, right?

Cool. All right, cool.

I was like, "Guys, well, they found now, it's, it's like, it's like a, they finished a study that half the internet is bots. Isn't that great?" And then everybody's like, "Why would that be great?" I'm like, "Guys, there's way less Nazis than we thought."

[laughs]

There's like, there's, imagine if you thought there was a room with 100 Nazis in it, and it's two. Two's still bad, but two's not 100. And then, then one of my friends was saying, "But yeah, isn't it horrible, though, that somebody would go to the trouble of engineering the, the troll farm to make us think there's more Nazis?"

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Yes. That's still not as bad as 100 actual Nazis. If you had, if you had 100, 100, uh, cakes at your door that say the N-word or two Nazis, you'd be way less scared than if there were 100 Nazis at your door. You know what I mean?

when I'm online, 'cause I'm like, "Is this person real?" Now, that sort of, like, that sort of thing could drive a person crazy, but to me, because I'm also being [laughs] served so much, like, hateful stuff, and because hateful stuff is more engaging than love-

Yeah. Yeah, yeah

... it does then make me go, "Okay, what's the likelihood that people spreading love are bots and people spreading hate are bots?" This is a hateful thing that I see, and it also isn't, like, original. This is how I feel like I'm getting good at picking out the bots. Because then when something racist happens and they're like, they're like, "We should get him fired from his job," and then they're like, "Pfft, probably doesn't have a job to fire from," and then the next three people are like, "Probably doesn't have a job to fire from. Probably doesn't have a job to fire from," I'm like, all right, maybe this is, like, one angry person.

That's just being multiple-

And maybe-

Yeah, that's just being-

And maybe no racist people. Who knows? 'Cause the comments are racist. The other person's just angry. They're like, "We should get him fired from his job. This is insane."

Yeah.

Right? And so now it's like, it changed my w- like, outlook on the world in a way that might be naive, and it might be a little bit like, um, um, wishful thinking.

Hm.

But it still is, like, information that I'm basing my, my worldview off.

No, I, I think it's, I think it's the right way to see it, actually, is like finding... Y- you know, we've had a lot of conversations on the podcast with, with different pe- I mean, everyone from, you know, doctors who are here to talk about how to, how to find the best in your kids. We talk to world leaders. We t- One of the common threads I find is, like, finding the hope, you know?

Mm.

And what you're saying ties back into that,

is finding... You, you have to find that thing. You gotta find... You were hopeful enough to eat that second slice of pizza.

The fourth.

And desperate.

Yeah. [laughs]

Fourth?

Yeah, fourth.

The three were-

No, but-

... the night before.

Yeah, but I, I like this.

[laughs]

[laughs]

What type of pizza was it, by the way?

It was a pepperoni pizza. There's no reason for this to be poisoned.

Can you still, can you eat pepro- pepperoni pizza today?

Yes, because, okay, I've been poisoned many times.

[laughs]

But there are certain types of poisoning-

This man said it like a badge of... That's how-

[laughs]

When Josh was like, "I have been poisoned many times."

There was a time in my life where if food was 2.50, I would eat it no matter what. That was the most adventurous I've ever been. Now, when I actually go places and someone's like, "Oh, try this, it's a delicacy," but it look a little bit like-

Mm-hmm

... like squid guts, I'm like, "I think I'm okay."

Yeah.

But if you had, if it had been 2.50 in 2014

in Chicago-

You would be eating everything

... I'd be like, "Hey, bottoms up," right? And so the b- the time I got poisoned at the Chinese place, it took me years and years and years to eat Chinese again.

Huh.

Because everything about the feeling, everything about the smell-

Oh, yeah, no, I mean, that happens

... everything about the violent, whatever. Now it, it got to a point for a year, any time I passed, like, any sort of Szechuan place, I was, I was like, I could feel it coming.

Oh, man, I'm so hungry now. You just got me hungry.

[laughs]

You just said Szechuanese food, I started thinking of pig trotters. Are you in, Eugene? [laughs]

[laughs]

I don't even think you understand. You just... Oh, man. Sorry, your pain. Tell us about your pain again.

[laughs] But it's just, it's the-

I apologize, Josh.

I've never drank in my life, but it's the closest-

Wait, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

No, what?

Whoa.

What?

Can't just-

I thought you knew.

You can't just drop bombs like that in, in your life?

Yeah.

I knew you don't drink.

No. No, I never drank.

You have never consumed alcohol?

No, no.

Nothing, even in church, nothing?

No, no, we didn't go to that type of church.

Church.

You could've saved $17. All right. All right. Shotgun shotgun." [laughs]

[laughs]

This is so wild.

Yeah. And then when I moved to Chicago, I didn't have money to afford to like a new thing. And then after-

Yeah

... I moved to New York, I felt like, even though I was still in, like, my mid-20s, I felt like I had missed a little bit of the boat, and that if I were to find out... 'Cause you, the, the way you find your drink and the way you find out how much you can drink-

Mm-hmm

... is through trial and error.

Definitely.

And the errors get less and less cute the older you get.

This is true. I completely agree.

And so now I'm like, ah, yeah, I missed it. Because now also-

So there's no, like, curiosity even that makes you... And I'm, I'm not advocating-

Not, not really

... for it, by the way.

No, no, not really.

I'm just, I'm, I'm intrigued by this.

The other reason was that I was like, I don't think I can do anything, like smoke or, or drink-

Mm

... or any of that. Um, especially, like, it, it was, like, a focus thing as well, 'cause I was like, I wanna be able to take care of my mom, take care of my aunt, and like, you know, just, like, make sure that they're good.

Yeah.

Right? 'Cause, like, and, and especially after, like, my dad passed and everything. And so then anything like that just seemed like- Um, a potential distraction. And just from the outside looking in, I had never seen anyone be their best self drunk, even the happy drunks.

Right, yeah.

There were some people that were like, "Oh, he's so fun when he's drunk." And I'm like, "Y'all know he's, like, fun regular, right?"

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I hear what you mean.

But you gotta ask him the right questions. And so, um-

How, how, how old were you when your dad passed?

Um, 26. I think 26.

Yeah.

I could've been 25.

age-

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah

... me being this now. Then losing my dad, I was like, "Oh, yeah, like, anybody can go." So now I make sure, or at least do my best to, like, I'm still not perfect at it, but, like, everyone that I love, I let them know all the time and I don't worry about being embarrassed. 'Cause it's like I, I told my dad I loved him the last time and, and wasn't feeling sure that he heard me. You know what I mean?

Mm.

And I had the opportunity to tell my dad that I loved him plenty of times before he got sick.

Mm.

And so it's like I never wanna waste that again on anybody. And, like, I've lost people since then, and got to feel at least somewhat better because every time ... I'm not saying this to, like, to, to freak you out, but it's like every time I leave someone I'm like, "They could die-

Yeah, that does freak me out

... or I could die." So, like, I'm, I'm sorry.

Don't put that juju on me, Ricky Bobby.

But I'll tell you I love you all the time-

Thank you, Josh. I love you, too

... just so you know.

Man, you know I love you, too.

Yeah. And-

But don't put that juju on me.

No, 100%.

All right.

Look, look.

[laughs]

We're gonna live forever. That's literally why I say it all the time.

Oh, man.

I say it every time. I'll be ... People will be like, "Are you, are you hurt?" I'm gonna live forever.

[laughs]

When I fall, people are like, "Ooh, that looked bad." I'm gonna live forever.

It explains a lot of your, like ... I don't know, man. You, you've always had, um, a beautiful appreciate ... Like, we used to come back from shows and you would look at me and you'd be like, "Hey, man, thank you for that." And I was like, "Oh, okay." And that's why I'm shocked that you don't drink 'cause

I genuinely thought some of those times-

[laughs]

I, I don't mean this in a shitty way. I swear on my life.

No, I'm with it. I'm with it. I'm with it

... you had the sincerity of a slightly inebriated person.

And I also stopped talking.

Yeah.

And I realized I do the same thing to Colin Kaepernick. When I met Colin Kaepernick, I was like, "Hey, man, you and me."

Yeah, and that's what you do.

And it's like-

So Josh will, Josh will look at you-

[laughs]

... say something, not finish a sentence, but his in- his intonation will make it seem like something was coming. So he'll look at me and be like, "Hey, man, I just wanted to say thank you." [laughs]

Then I'll be like, "Oh, uh, for, for what?"

You know. [laughs] Do you know?

No, I do know.

No, and, and then like-

I'm like-

... it, it's ... I mean, I've known you for years now, but-

Yeah

... back then I was just like, "Oh, man." I was like, "My mans is, you know, he's had a few. It's been a night. It's been a journey, and I appreciate him still." And so, so, I mean, it must be ... I can only imagine what it must be like for your mom, though, seeing this.

Mm.

'Cause there's no mom who doesn't enjoy seeing their child fly.

Especially when you quit the grocery store. Especially when you're like-

[laughs]

... you're like, "Mom, I think I got this."

[laughs]

And she's like, "Are you sure?"