What Now? With Trevor NoahKara Swisher: The Queen of Tech Tells All
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,002 words- 0:00 – 1:00
The Queen of Tech Reporting
- TNTrevor Noah
Kara Swisher is widely considered the most powerful and plugged in reporter in the world of big tech
- SPSpeaker
Kara Swisher knows Silicon Valley as well as anyone.
- TNTrevor Noah
My source tonight is the veteran tech insider Kara Swisher, the host of the podcast On with Kara Swisher at Pivot. Who do you consider your competitors? You tend to go wrong by focusing too much on competition.
- TNTrevor Noah
We wanna dominate in the great next global industry.
- TNTrevor Noah
Do you feel like it's a backlash, or do you feel like you're violating people's privacy? What do you do all day?
- SPSpeaker
Uh, well-
- TNTrevor Noah
Most people think not enough. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
There is no better expert, so I gotta go to you on this.
- TNTrevor Noah
You've been-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... following how these tech companies deal with-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... misinformation, disinformation, conspiracy theories, and you've seen-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- TNTrevor Noah
... the struggle.
- KSKara Swisher
If we want innovation in the future in AI-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- KSKara Swisher
... in robotics, in advanced medical stuff, we have to have a robust pipeline of talent from across the globe. [upbeat music]
- TNTrevor Noah
This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. [upbeat music]
- 1:00 – 5:00
Kim Kardashian Taught Kara Swisher Selfies?!
- TNTrevor Noah
The end of this podcast-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... you would have got me a thing or two.
- SPSpeaker
We're gonna take a selfie.
- TNTrevor Noah
You'd have...
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
The pictures are amazing.
- SPSpeaker
He was like, "Where did you-"
- TNTrevor Noah
What do you mean? Like, the composition and the-
- SPSpeaker
No
- TNTrevor Noah
... everything.
- SPSpeaker
No. He said, "Where did you learn how to do selfies?" And actually, Kim Kardashian taught me. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
No, are you being serious?
- KSKara Swisher
I didn't expect that.
- SPSpeaker
I'm being serious.
- TNTrevor Noah
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Wait. Wait, wait.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] I showed you. I showed this one.
- TNTrevor Noah
But not, not, not... Yeah, but show, show him what he-
- SPSpeaker
He showed... Oh, okay
- TNTrevor Noah
... or she taught you.
- SPSpeaker
So she was teaching me duck face.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yes. Okay.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
In that, in that time we were together. So she's like, "Here's how you do it," and she showed me. She has a light, this Lumi light around her camera.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
The front face.
- SPSpeaker
It's right there. That's how the picture looked.
- TNTrevor Noah
Kim Kardashian taught you how to take selfies?
- 5:00 – 7:00
AOL in the 90s & Kara Spots the Privacy Problem Early
- SPSpeaker
tell people different things, and just, I put it up in places. I'll change it at, at different places just to, just 'cause I don't want people to necessarily know my birthday. 'Cause I was really worried about privacy from the get-go.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
When, when AOL started, I started covering AOL in the '90s, and that was the first, you know, iteration of where we are today. F- popular one. There were others. There was, you know, there were all kinds of, um, m- message boards and things like that.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
But it was real complicated, and if you didn't, it was not easy to use. And so AOL was the first commercial interpretation of what we see today, and that wasn't even the internet. That was a service that was then attached to the internet.
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
That was, you know, a sep- it was not the internet. It was like a walled garden approach. And the minute I saw what AOL was doing, I realized they were scraping and stealing information so they could take advantage of you and sell advertising.
- TNTrevor Noah
You knew this in 1993?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it was obvious what they were doing. What did they need all this information? Why were advertising come back that, uh, were based on my searches and stuff?
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
And then when Google was there, I got it right away. You understood what their b-... Well, initially, Google's business model was not advertising. They didn't have one, actually. They came upon advertising.
- TNTrevor Noah
This is, I remember using AOL-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... and I don't know what it was like in America, but in South Africa, we didn't really have these services full on.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
So we would get a, a CD.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
A disk.
- SPSpeaker
Everybody did.
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, that was the same?
- SPSpeaker
Yes.
- TNTrevor Noah
And I-
- SPSpeaker
Everybody, that was their method of marketing.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, and I could only access it for, like, it was, like, 30 minutes.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
Like, each disk gave me 30 minutes.
- SPSpeaker
Yes, to try it out, to try it out, right?
- TNTrevor Noah
And then that was... But in my world, I didn't know when the next disk would come, so I'd go on these little chat rooms, and these, like-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... I'd make friends on these chat sites.
- 7:00 – 8:30
Trevor’s First Internet Lies (Prince of the Village)
- SPSpeaker
... yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
But they were like, "There's no internet in Africa."
- SPSpeaker
Right, right.
- TNTrevor Noah
And then I would say, sort of like your birthday thing, I would go, "Well, I'm the prince of my village-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
... and I have the one computer." And you know what was crazy? That's when they accepted it. They're like, "Ah."
- EKEugene Khoza
You're not a prince?
- SPSpeaker
Ah.
- TNTrevor Noah
They're like, "That makes sense."
- SPSpeaker
Prince, the Prince of South Africa. [laughs]
- EKEugene Khoza
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
That makes sense.
- SPSpeaker
You know-
- TNTrevor Noah
Welcome to the internet
- SPSpeaker
... you know, it's interesting you said that about Africa, 'cause in the early days, Google had this amazing visualization when you entered the company. It was a small company at the time. And it would show a globe where all the information requests were coming from, and it was different colors based on language. And so it, it was sort of a light visualization. So it would show the amount of questions being asked around the world, and it would be, like, beams of light, almost like skyscrapers, right?
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And you'd see New York, big skyscraper, and lots of languages. Or, and you'd spin around to Europe, and there'd be a lot with lots of li- like Germany had German, French, whatever they were speaking, and you'd see lots of light. And you would spin around to different... E- Asia was just a, a bright because they were using internet. And 'cause the cables that went across the, the seas were, were linking all these countries, right? Africa had almost no light-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... coming off of it. It was am- And I remember turning to Sergey or Larry, I, I can't ever tell them apart at this point.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And, uh, and I said, "What's going on?" And they, he, he said, "They're not asking questions." I said, "No, they're not allowed to ask questions because they don't have access. They have questions." So y- y- you know, this whole, asking questions is about modernity, when you ask questions. And they weren't, this one continent was not able to ask questions 'cause they didn't
- 8:30 – 10:30
Why Africa’s Internet Questions Didn’t “Show Up” at Google
- SPSpeaker
have the fiber laid. But when wireless showed up, it grew really fast because then, and whether it's be satellite or whatever it happens to be, they got, they ha- Fiber is a problem ultimately, so when wireless happened, it, it changed the fact.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, like the phys- the physical inf- infrastructure in most developing nations is the hardest thing-
- SPSpeaker
Doesn't exist
- TNTrevor Noah
... to get going.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
But that's why wireless became the revolution.
- SPSpeaker
Yes.
- TNTrevor Noah
So in, in South Africa, and I think many parts of Southern Africa and India-
- SPSpeaker
Yes
- TNTrevor Noah
... we actually leapfrogged the United States-
- SPSpeaker
You did, for speed
- TNTrevor Noah
... in our connectivity and speed.
- SPSpeaker
Connectivity and speed.
- TNTrevor Noah
Like, I remember visiting America, and 3G wasn't a thing here, and people were still on, like, old CDMA technology, like a GPRS, I think.
- SPSpeaker
That's for another reason, because the companies didn't wanna modernize. And so-
- TNTrevor Noah
No
- SPSpeaker
... you know, one of the things we did in, I did an interview at the, at the time, the head of the, uh, FCC, and the US had the most expensive internet access-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... and the least fast.
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
So I was like, "Oh, so we're getting shitty service for the most expensive price."
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And it was because of the way these things were monopolies, and they didn't g- you know, they, whatever the cable, the cable barons didn't, owned a certain section, and whether they decided to modernize or not was when things got modernized. And so there was no competition, and they tried to keep satellite out. They tried to keep all kinds of things out in the United States 'cause we let these corporations rule the roost, as we always do. Um, and that's why it was so slow to get here. Competition is what everything's about in general.
- TNTrevor Noah
There's two things you've said that, that just sparked, like, uh, sort of how we should be looking at tech even through-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... today's lens. The first one was when you said you're at Google. You're talking to the two people who've-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... started Google.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- TNTrevor Noah
They have a device that tracks where people are asking questions from in the world.
- 10:30 – 13:30
“Elon Musk: The Alien From Your Country”
- SPSpeaker
they're the most intelligent. I don't, I-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, but that's how they're seen is what I mean.
- SPSpeaker
Well, of course, 'cause we g- we have to make these people into gods, right?
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
They're magicians. They're gods. They're not gods. They're just people, and very broken people, many of them. I mean, look at Elon Musk from your country, and, uh-
- EKEugene Khoza
Mm-mm, mm, mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Wow, wow, wow, Kara. Wow.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Damn. Damn, the way she just threw that at us.
- EKEugene Khoza
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
From your country.
- SPSpeaker
He said, "I am, he's a proud i-
- TNTrevor Noah
That was so slick.
- SPSpeaker
He's a proud immigrant.
- TNTrevor Noah
That was such a slick-
- SPSpeaker
It just happened to be in Britain.
- TNTrevor Noah
She threw a ninja star at us.
- EKEugene Khoza
Oh, good. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
And look at Elon Musk, that crazy bastard. From your country.
- EKEugene Khoza
From your country.
- TNTrevor Noah
Ah.
- SPSpeaker
But he was very, but he was...
- EKEugene Khoza
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
I meant that as a compliment. I meant that as a compliment. Uh, he was an export into this country.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay.
- SPSpeaker
And, and sh-
- EKEugene Khoza
We'll, we'll take that
- SPSpeaker
... good for us for letting him in.
- 13:30 – 16:00
Mars Is Overrated: Why Living There Sucks
- SPSpeaker
of further life. That said, interesting, I just interviewed a bio- uh, a, an astro, uh, biologist and physicist.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And he, and he was noting, he was s- he wrote a book called, his name's Adam Becker, wrote More Everything Forever, which is a sort of motto of tech people.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Which is not, you can't have more everything forever.
- EKEugene Khoza
No.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Right?
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
But they think that. And so he was blowing up the Mars idea, because Mars is, they've got gravity issues, they've got massive radiation issues. It's constantly hit by, um-
- EKEugene Khoza
That's true
- SPSpeaker
... comets and asteroids and stuff like that. And so he was like, "Literally the, the worst day on Earth is better than the best day on Mars," [laughs] like because-
- TNTrevor Noah
Wow
- SPSpeaker
... you have to live below ground, like deep into the ground.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
You have to, um, protect yourself from radiation. You, your bones get, get-
- EKEugene Khoza
Brittle?
- SPSpeaker
... I think more brittle. I, I'm not sure what hap- but you get shorter is what happens.
- TNTrevor Noah
I'm, I'm this.
- SPSpeaker
And you get stupider, and if, and you get stupider-
- TNTrevor Noah
I, I-
- SPSpeaker
... when you're there. And so you do become, you know, these depictions of Martians as sort of mole people is actually kind of accurate.
- TNTrevor Noah
Wow.
- SPSpeaker
That's what would happen to humans there on this day.
- TNTrevor Noah
That could be us.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- TNTrevor Noah
Th- this is sometimes where I think of, like, you know, like the sci-fi stories-
- SPSpeaker
Also, it's freezing cold and hot, too.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, I think-
- EKEugene Khoza
At the same time?
- 16:00 – 17:30
Tesla, Cybertruck & the Penis-Size Problem
- SPSpeaker
um, jumping up and down, saying, tweeting things about how we need more white people on the planet-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... and et cetera. You start to be, like, sort of repelled by it. And y- look at the brand. Look, look, I don't have to prove it. I don't think it's just because people don't like him that Tesla's s- s- sales have plummeted. Um, I think that's part of it. Other part, he doesn't have a car anybody wants anymore, and there's lots of competition. Uh, China is, is, is, is tracking him all, you know, across the globe, BYD, making great, innovative-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... cars.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
All across the globe. In this country, a whole bunch of car makers have great, Rivian, or Ford has some great cars. Everybody's now competing, and Tesla hasn't innovated in a very long time, except for the Cybertruck, which, as you know, is the ugliest car in existence.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And no, and it's, hasn't been able to sell very many-
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
... except to, for men of problematic penis size, so.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Maybe a woman or two.
- EKEugene Khoza
How, h- how do we as society avoid men-
- SPSpeaker
With a penis
- EKEugene Khoza
... of problematic penis sizes? [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Well-
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- EKEugene Khoza
'Cause you're a parent of five
- SPSpeaker
... three, three men, yes. Three, no, three, three young, two young men and one boy.
- EKEugene Khoza
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
Yes, yes. Uh, I don't know. I think it's really, um, it's, uh, it's, I think it's been with us forever. That's not a new, fresh insight.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, I, you know what? I actually think, um, I actually think we are in a cycle. Like, it's a, it's a loop of life.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
We, we often forget that tech was the domain of the nerd.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Right?
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Like, I know when I was burning CDs, like when I had my
- 17:30 – 20:00
From Nerds to Billionaires: The Coolness Illusion
- TNTrevor Noah
first CD-ROM-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... my first CD writer-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... my modem, when I was building my own little rig, when I-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, cute
- TNTrevor Noah
... you know what I mean?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
When I was in that world-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... I can tell you now, that world did not brush up against anything cool-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... or sexual.
- SPSpeaker
Yes, no.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay?
- SPSpeaker
Not at all.
- TNTrevor Noah
The, none of that.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
There-
- SPSpeaker
Fast-forward to today, that's why
- TNTrevor Noah
... there was no world where I could say to you, "Ah, my PCI slot got me closer to that woman." No.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Never happened.
- EKEugene Khoza
A lot of things are making sense about you now.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs] So-
- EKEugene Khoza
A lot. And you know, I'm glad you're opening up about this because-
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- EKEugene Khoza
... there's times where I have questions.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] There, you just had them answered.
- EKEugene Khoza
But this-
- 20:00 – 21:00
Revenge of the Nerds vs. Reality
- TNTrevor Noah
Mark Cuban. Was he like tech tech nerd in that way?
- SPSpeaker
He was, he's a tech nerd.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Yeah, he's just a different kind. You know, I think, uh, I mean, Mark Zuckerberg's kinda classic.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
But actually, he was pretty popular in high school from what I understand. He was not bullied. And, um, it just depends. I think that, you know, we, it, it's 'cause it's formed by Hollywood, like Revenge of the Nerds-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... and those, and all those movies. And I think, you know, as tech became so important to all our lives, they, we began to recognize the importance of these characters in-
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm
- SPSpeaker
... making us, understanding it, and inventing it. But back in the day, Edison was a hero. All those people, all those inventors, Franklin, they were all heroes. So I think we've always loved the inventor. I think that's not a, a new thing, but you're right, there were these images of, like Bill Gates, for example, sort of was the quintessential-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yes
- SPSpeaker
... nerd, right?
- TNTrevor Noah
But that image is, you know, when you, when you talk about, I love that you say the word inventors, 'cause I, I watch every single, um, Apple event.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- 21:00 – 23:00
From Inventors to Marketers: Tech Lost Its Soul
- EKEugene Khoza
Oh, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
They just had one, yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
Every WWDC-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... every new launch, every, I, you know, I'll watch the Pixel events, I'll watch the Google this, I watch the, I watch them all.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
And I don't know if I'm the only one, but I feel like over the past few years, I felt like it's less a club of inventors now.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah. They're marketers.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, it feels more like-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- TNTrevor Noah
... it's marketing and extraction. It doesn't feel, like when you say these things, Edison, I go, yeah, but look at what Edison was trying to do.
- EKEugene Khoza
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
You know? Graham Bell, look what Graham Bell was trying.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Look what Tesla, the man was trying to do.
- SPSpeaker
Nikola, yeah.
- EKEugene Khoza
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
None of these people were trying to think of a way for you to get your, like, your, your food 15 minutes faster than you were-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- TNTrevor Noah
... getting it before.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- TNTrevor Noah
That's not an invention in my opinion.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- TNTrevor Noah
You know?
- SPSpeaker
Well, it was interesting because at one point in s- i- in w- some of it was inventions, absolutely, and Steve Jobs sort of personified that. Although he wasn't a technical person, he was just, he was good at marketing and he was-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... good at visionare, being visionary of what it should be, and he had enough technical expertise to, to spur inventors to make what he, what his vision was. Um, but one at, at one point during the internet age, there, there was, it got so, I guess, fucked up that they were, someone came to me with like, um, digital dry cleaning service. I was like, this is not innovation. This is just-
- TNTrevor Noah
What do you, what do you mean, a digital dry cleaning?
- SPSpeaker
You just order it on an app. That's all.
- 23:00 – 25:00
Skinny iPhones, Fat Bumps & Wobbly Phones
- SPSpeaker
lot of it is that, right? And Steve Jobs, for ex- w- was, was perfect at making you see the vision of where it was going because, you know, this phone, even though it's, they just released the skinny one. You s- I don't know if you saw it.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
It's got that bump on it.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
I saw it last night.
- TNTrevor Noah
The mega bump.
- SPSpeaker
The bump is weird. I have a-
- TNTrevor Noah
It's massive.
- SPSpeaker
Well.
- TNTrevor Noah
It's also, it's also lopsided. That's my problem. Like, maybe-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... maybe it's just a me thing.
- SPSpeaker
Steve wouldn't have liked that, I have to say.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, I go, like, if you're gonna make a phone that has a mega bump on the back-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... at least make-
- SPSpeaker
Make more bump
- TNTrevor Noah
... make more bump-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... because then when I put the phone down, it's flat. Now you have a phone that has-
- SPSpeaker
That wobbles
- TNTrevor Noah
... one corner, and then it wobbles, and it does a thing.
- EKEugene Khoza
Like an upside-down turtle.
- TNTrevor Noah
Also, why am I resting my phone on the camera? I, I mean, maybe it's just me, but I'm like-
- SPSpeaker
Right. They have, they have a case for it, but then it's, now think again.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, but that's the point of the thin phone.
- SPSpeaker
Correct.
- TNTrevor Noah
You see?
- SPSpeaker
I said this to this Apple executive, and they're like, "God, you're annoying, Steph."
- EKEugene Khoza
I, I had to s- sit through this lecture last night. [laughs]
- 25:00 – 26:00
The Future in Your Ear: AirPods, AR & AI Companions
- SPSpeaker
and like, "Okay, up ahead is that person. Go to the left. Go here." And it will co- you'll constantly be inter- interacting with this, some sort of AI that will speak to you all day long and-
- TNTrevor Noah
What, what's, what's the first tech that made you feel like you were living in the future? I, I always love asking this to, like, tech lovers.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, well, I'm a little older. The browser.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't matter.
- SPSpeaker
The browser. The, the Mosaic, the Mosaic browser.
- TNTrevor Noah
Really?
- SPSpeaker
Yes, because it, look, you had computers.
- TNTrevor Noah
Some of the computer, that was, like, okay-ish.
- SPSpeaker
They, they hadn't really innovated. I mean, there was that ti- there were a couple, um, not Dells. What was the company? It's gone now. They had some small ones that were pretty cool.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah?
- SPSpeaker
Right? Actually, that's not true. There was a, there was something called, um, General Magic, that created the General Magic magic device, and it was an iPhone before-
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm
- SPSpeaker
... there was an iPhone.
- TNTrevor Noah
Like, how long are we talking now?
- SPSpeaker
It was a lot of the people who worked on iPhone later. This was the eighties, essentially.
- TNTrevor Noah
No way.
- SPSpeaker
Can't remember. And remember, Apple had Newton, if you remember, a long time ago.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, yeah, but I don't know about General Magic.
- SPSpeaker
Similar.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
General Magic was before that, and a lot of the people moved to the Newton project. They kept trying to do it,
- 26:00 – 29:00
The First Tech That Felt Like the Future
- SPSpeaker
right? And the guy, Tony Fadell, that ended up being critical to the, um, the iPod, worked at General Magic. Like, they were always trying to figure out this sort of... And, and it actually goes back to Star Trek. That's what they were trying to make.
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm. That little device that the-
- SPSpeaker
That's right, the communicator
- TNTrevor Noah
... everyone... Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
The communicator, right? And so they were always trying to create that. And that was what that became. But General Magic had, and I have one, I have an original General Magic, was a block. It just was too big, and it had pictures of mail with- on a desk with a mail, with a mailbox and stuff like that. And you would, you'd have a stylus. And it was just t- it wasn't the right form factor-
- TNTrevor Noah
Right
- SPSpeaker
... but it was directionally the correct version. And if you look at that, you're like, you could see-
- TNTrevor Noah
Evolution
- SPSpeaker
... the straight line into this. Um, same thing with the glasses and stuff. I have one of the original Google Glasses, which, uh-
- TNTrevor Noah
Those massive ones?
- SPSpeaker
No, they weren't big, actually. Google Glass was quite skinny, and then it had this weird little thing, this little square.
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, the little, um, what are they called?
- SPSpeaker
Yes. They were not massive.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay.
- SPSpeaker
Vision Pro is massive, is, is still big. All, and so are most of the Meta ones, um, Oculus and everything else. Google Glass was small and it sat on your, it sat on, like, it was very thin, and then had a little thing. It just wasn't very functional. It didn't do much, right? And it would sit there. And one of the problems with it, when, when it first was introduced, I went to, my ex-wife worked for Google, so I went to a Christmas party and they had just introduced Google Glass, but nobody had them but the Google people. And so everyone on the boat, she was in that division, had the Google Glass on.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
On a boat. It was such a great scene. And they wouldn't let me have it. They're like, "You can't have it." I'm like, "Thank you." Um, and they-
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And they're wearing it.
- TNTrevor Noah
Missing you with that. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And they were trying to, to, to have it, to get it to go, you go, "Hello, Google," or you made it, you said something like, "Hello, Google" to it.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And then it would act.
- TNTrevor Noah
That, that was like the, yeah, like activating.
- SPSpeaker
Yes. That was, they have an action word, right?
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And they were all going, "Hello, Google," and they were turning on each other's Google Glass-
- TNTrevor Noah
That is hilarious
- SPSpeaker
... with the same thing.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm. Oh my goodness.
- 29:00 – 31:00
Google Glass, Supermodels & Shrimp: A True Dystopia
- SPSpeaker
Do you remember that?
- TNTrevor Noah
No, I don't remember this actually.
- SPSpeaker
So they had, to introduce it, they did a Victoria's Secret event, and all the supermodels had them on.
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, wow.
- SPSpeaker
And so I was there, and they go, "What do you think?" I go, "You've just made supermodels unfuckable. How? Good for you." [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Well done, boys.
- TNTrevor Noah
That is technology.
- SPSpeaker
It was. I was like, "Whoa."
- TNTrevor Noah
Well done, guys.
- EKEugene Khoza
But I think everything she's explained is what I find wrong with technology.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- EKEugene Khoza
It almost feels like it makes you ignore the giant plate of shrimp in front of you.
- SPSpeaker
Right. Well, but the-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah. You've never... What-
- SPSpeaker
Shrimp is delicious
- TNTrevor Noah
... like, what tech-
- EKEugene Khoza
I love shrimp.
- TNTrevor Noah
No, but I, I like-
- SPSpeaker
I love shrimp
- TNTrevor Noah
... I like asking you-
- SPSpeaker
I love shrimp
- TNTrevor Noah
... you these things, 'cause you've always been my, one of my non-techy friends.
- EKEugene Khoza
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
So you'll ask me questions, and there's some tech that you'll adopt, and then there's some tech that you won't.
- EKEugene Khoza
Yes.
- TNTrevor Noah
Like, w- which tech do you think is actually meaningful?
- EKEugene Khoza
[sighs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Do you, do you, like, even care?
- EKEugene Khoza
I think after the radio we should have stopped.
- 31:00 – 36:00
Wearables That Actually Work: The Aura Ring
- SPSpeaker
guy- guys made this, let me just say. It ha- it needs to be this big because of all the sensors in it.
- TNTrevor Noah
You've got all the sensors on the inside.
- SPSpeaker
But eventually it won't.
- EKEugene Khoza
Then where's space for your wedding ring?
- SPSpeaker
I, I never... I'm, I know I'm married. I don't wear it. Don't say anything. Shh. I don't like rings. I don't like rings. They make me feel like I'm captive. [laughs] Just-
- TNTrevor Noah
Love the-
- SPSpeaker
I do this with the rings
- TNTrevor Noah
... like on the hand?
- SPSpeaker
Yes.
- EKEugene Khoza
The ring itself-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, yeah, yeah
- EKEugene Khoza
... on your finger makes you feel like-
- SPSpeaker
I don't like j- I don't like rings. I don't like rings.
- TNTrevor Noah
Some, some people, uh, like jewelry in general, it- it's hard to-
- EKEugene Khoza
On their fingers.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
No, just even, even like around your n-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- EKEugene Khoza
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... around your neck as well-
- SPSpeaker
I don't like anything
- TNTrevor Noah
... sometimes you-
- SPSpeaker
No, I don't.
- TNTrevor Noah
You've never had a conversation-
- SPSpeaker
My wife would like me-
- TNTrevor Noah
... with your wife about it?
- SPSpeaker
She would like me to wear it more, and I try. I try my best.
- TNTrevor Noah
How many times has this topic come up? Because-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, many times. Thank you for bringing it up, and now she'll listen to this, and we'll have another one.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- 36:00 – 42:00
Matchmaking, Lists & Love in Tech
- SPSpeaker
too, many, many year- when I was in high school and stuff, and I just hadn't been alone, like, by myself. And I said, "I'm gonna be alone for a year." I did one of those things.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- EKEugene Khoza
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
And sh- Candy called me, and she texted me and said, "Uh, can I fix you up with someone? I have two people." I have two different ... She was kind of a matchmaker personality, and she said, "I'll, I'll set..." A- and I was, I actually was going to a funeral, and I was like, "Well, how about after the funeral [laughs] we'll get together?"
- TNTrevor Noah
Very practical.
- SPSpeaker
Right, exactly.
- TNTrevor Noah
Just finishes this off.
- SPSpeaker
I was wearing all black.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
I think I was wearing this very-
- TNTrevor Noah
Maybe I might-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... I might encounter another death.
- SPSpeaker
I know, exactly. And, um, and I said, "Okay, but I'm not going out with anyone for a year. I'm not. I'm gonna..." Like, I literally just broken up.
- TNTrevor Noah
How many months were you in now?
- SPSpeaker
A month, a month. [laughs] A month.
- TNTrevor Noah
One month in. Still strong.
- SPSpeaker
A month and a half maybe. Um, and, uh, and I, I said, "Okay, I'll go. Uh, I'll start with one." And we, we ... They had a little dinner party, uh, kind of thing, um, in Brooklyn, and I went, and I think we got married. We had a baby a year later. It just-
- TNTrevor Noah
Wow.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
You never got to number two?
- SPSpeaker
Never got ... We did meet. I met number two later. Very nice. It was, but a very excellent choice, too.
- TNTrevor Noah
Wow. So was there a moment when you met number two where you were like, "This could have been," or was it no, like, you know?
- SPSpeaker
No, I picked the right ... I got the right one. She was, she-
- TNTrevor Noah
Hm
- SPSpeaker
... she picked the right one, actually.
- TNTrevor Noah
So you don't ... Just, so-
- SPSpeaker
She picked the right one.
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, 'cause that was the first option that she had for you.
- SPSpeaker
She, that she picked.
- 42:00 – 44:00
Dating Apps vs. Real Matchmakers
- TNTrevor Noah
... it works
- SPSpeaker
... is what you're talking about. Right.
- TNTrevor Noah
But it's like, no, no, no, no, no. If you think of what a working relationship is, everyone who's told me a story about being set up.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Um, obviously some people have bad stories. But when you even think of, um, matchmakers in India.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
A great matchmaker in India will tell you, "My job is not to m- just set you up. My job is to understand you- And then understand you-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... and figure out why you would or wouldn't-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... work beyond what you may know or not know about yourself.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
And whenever I hear people talk about someone setting them up, like a friend of theirs or somebody-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... they go m- it's, you, you said the line, and I, I promise you everyone says it. They go, "They were like a matchmaker type."
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
There's a skill that they possess.
- SPSpeaker
Right, correct.
- TNTrevor Noah
That-
- SPSpeaker
Not everybody has it
- TNTrevor Noah
... exactly, that enables them to see why you connect with you. But these apps don't necessarily do that.
- SPSpeaker
No, AI can do that eventually. Eventually there will be-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, but now they don't
- SPSpeaker
... uh, some, some of the algorithms do have things that are helpful. I mean, it's, we're on our way to that, and I think-
- TNTrevor Noah
Com- on the way, yes
- SPSpeaker
... 'cause it will read your facial expressions.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yes, on the way.
- SPSpeaker
You know, they're doing job interviews like that. They can, they can watch the facial expressions and like-
- TNTrevor Noah
We don't know what they mean mean yet.
- SPSpeaker
Well, actually, uh, you know, interestingly, I just, I'm finishing up a documentary about future health, right?
- 44:00 – 50:00
AI That Reads Your Face to Save Your Life
- SPSpeaker
thing called Face Age, and the AI looks at a face, and it will, you will have a chronological age and a biological age.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay, mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Your biological age could be a lot lower than your chronological age.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
And that means you should have s- more aggressive cancer treatment.
- TNTrevor Noah
'Cause you can take it.
- SPSpeaker
'Cause you can take it, but doctors don't always see it, 'cause they're looking at wrinkles, they're looking at all kinds of things-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... or maybe someone's a little creakier. But, but this AI has been accurate in telling doctors which patients can take treatment more aggressively. And this one woman I mentioned, 82 years old, she looked older. She was wearing a wig. She looked older. She, she was 82. Her face age was 72, and they gave her more aggressive treatment. She's cancer-free now. It's incredible. Like, these da- th- these AI will be able to, to have a lot of data that we don't quite understand the decision-making. It'll be part of a tool that doctors use. It can't be the decision-maker, but it'll be a tool that doctors use going forward. So someone will be, AI will be able to fix you up eventually. Not today. No, I'm not kidding. Here's the thing. Let me ask you a question. What do you want? What are, what are you looking for? Make a list.
- TNTrevor Noah
Well-
- SPSpeaker
That's what I did
- TNTrevor Noah
... Kara, you know what I love about you? You, you care.
- SPSpeaker
I care, I care.
- TNTrevor Noah
No one, no one has ever asked me this.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
I mean-
- SPSpeaker
Wow
- TNTrevor Noah
... some people wear cardigans and came to you, my friend.
- SPSpeaker
Hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
And they've-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, wow. Wow.
- TNTrevor Noah
Wow.
- SPSpeaker
This is, I'm having a bad-
- TNTrevor Noah
And it-
- SPSpeaker
I'm having-
- TNTrevor Noah
This is insane
- SPSpeaker
... this is awkward.
- TNTrevor Noah
Look-
- SPSpeaker
This is awkward
- TNTrevor Noah
... care. And what was, what was on your list, though?
- 50:00 – 52:00
Why Kara Stayed a Journalist Instead of Joining Big Tech
- SPSpeaker
the CTO of America of, under Obama.
- TNTrevor Noah
Wow.
- SPSpeaker
I know. She worked at Google. She was CTO of America, yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
No, but that w- that, no, the reason I'm asking is 'cause I was going like, is it more refreshing to be with somebody who's in your world-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... or somebody, so like I, I, I like hanging out with Eugene partly because he doesn't care about half of those things that I'm talking about.
- SPSpeaker
Right, right.
- TNTrevor Noah
And, but then I sometimes go, like, it is fun to be with somebody where-
- SPSpeaker
I feel like you two should have a little relationship. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
I wish. I'm not his type.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
I'm not his type. Never. All the things that he said.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
Never.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, never.
- TNTrevor Noah
All the things that he said.
- SPSpeaker
Never.
- TNTrevor Noah
Family oriented.
- SPSpeaker
Ugh.
- TNTrevor Noah
Ugh.
- SPSpeaker
Ugh.
- TNTrevor Noah
Ugh. [laughs] Fluffy.
- SPSpeaker
What are you, hang out with Bill Maher?
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Is that, you're a Bill Maher character?
- TNTrevor Noah
Friends first. Friends first. That's me. [laughs] No, but, but like, yeah, I, I just mean like the, you know, the refreshing world. 'Cause you, how mu- how many years have you worked in tech?
- SPSpeaker
12, 20, 30? 30.
- TNTrevor Noah
30 years.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
And I would, I would say, you know everyone who has done anything in tech.
- 52:00 – 56:00
From Star Trek Dreams to Star Wars Reality
- SPSpeaker
the fruits of this amazing technology except for a small group of people, and I don't understand why a small group of people gets to decide everything for the rest of us. Why didn't they ever have any regulation? Why wasn't there any input by citizens on so much of this stuff around privacy? Why do they design things that are so damaging to people?
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Why can't they not do that? And also, and why don't they lean into the good parts and mitigate the bad parts? Why do they not care about the bad parts and don't feel it's their responsibility? So that's what it w- I, I lo- the, the, the amazing things tech can do for people, bringing pe- I have a vision of, the way I put it in the book was, uh, I, I have a vision of Star Trek, and we live in Star Wars.
- TNTrevor Noah
Damn.
- SPSpeaker
You know? And Star Trek is an amazing vision of the future-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... about diversity in its best light, in, um, in people understanding each other, where villains are complex.
- TNTrevor Noah
Cooperation.
- SPSpeaker
Cooperation.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Problems too, and everything else.
- TNTrevor Noah
Common cause.
- SPSpeaker
Common cause.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Cool outfits.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Um, and Star Wars is-
- TNTrevor Noah
Well, I've-
- SPSpeaker
... a very dark and dystopian vision about power and evil ultimately succeeding. They never win.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, never.
- SPSpeaker
The good people never win.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, they never win.
- SPSpeaker
At, at, you know, at the end.
- TNTrevor Noah
It's just a constant slog.
- SPSpeaker
It's a constant slog against-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... the abuse of technology by powerful people.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And so I am furious at them for taking something that could bring people together and not caring enough to take out the parts that bring people apart, right? Like antisemitism-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- 56:00 – 1:02:00
How Tech Titans Lose Themselves (and Friends)
- SPSpeaker
Their worlds kept getting smaller and smaller. In their homes, they went from their tight little cashmere homes, to their cars, to their planes, to their boats.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
And they never encountered people, right?
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
They s- less and less. The last scene of Succession, I thought, reminds me of tech people a lot. Think about that last scene. Besides the guy who died [laughs] , Logan Roy, everybody, the ma- the, the oldest son, he was alone by himself by the water, alone.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
With, with a, with a security guy. The couple, uh, uh, uh, was together, Tom and, um, Shiv.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
They were in a insulated car, expensive car by themsel- You know what I mean?
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
They were insulated. They went from the r- hotel room down through the kitchen-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... through the thing. There was only one person who was with people, real people, was the other son. He's in a bar, and he's ha- he's the only one that's happy in that, and I thought it said a lot. So these people, they go from their cars to their yachts to their homes to their, like Mark Zuckerberg has a compound in Palo Alto.
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
That means nobody gets in, nobody gets out. And so if you're like that, and you're constantly being told you're smart and every idea's-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... right, you, you never get a feedback of, "You fucking asshole, what are you, kidding?" And you either ex- bring it into your life, like Mark Cuban enjoys feedback. He will listen.
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
He's doing great. He's a great guy, because he will listen to people who disagree with him, and he'll, he'll seek out pe- He was just with Tucker Carlson. I read, I'm like, "What the fuck?" He goes, "I gotta listen to him." Like, he's open to hearing from lots of different people.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And then there's people like-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... Zuckerberg, who has a compound, and then he bought half of Hawaii, and then he bought this. It, it's to insulate yourself from everyone else. And if you start off as kind of a, a bit of a broken person or a jerk, like Jeff Bezos was always a jerk is, in my memory. [laughs] Like, he was a jerk to start with, and he's a bigger jerk now. Um, y- when you have money and the deleterious effects of wealth, they become worse. It, it, it emphasizes the way you were, the way you initially-
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm
- SPSpeaker
... started.
- TNTrevor Noah
Amplifies it.
- SPSpeaker
It amplifies it.
- TNTrevor Noah
Just makes you more of you. You know, there's, there's-
- SPSpeaker
Look at Elon. Look at Elon.
- TNTrevor Noah
What-
- 1:02:00 – 1:09:00
Elon Musk at Mar-a-Lago: The Saddest Billionaire Party
- SPSpeaker
Eve?
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
All right. I thought to my-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, for the big party
- SPSpeaker
... here's what I thought to myself: I'm the richest man in the world-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... and I'm fucking at Mar-a-Lago-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yes
- SPSpeaker
... with all these stiffs.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Like, and this guy dancing to YMCA. Like, if I'm the b- the richest person in the world, do you know where I am? I just bought France, and I've given everybody free wine.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And we're all... Do you know what I mean? And Beyonce is there.
- TNTrevor Noah
We need to give Kara Swisher all the money in the world.
- SPSpeaker
Wouldn't you?
- TNTrevor Noah
This sounds like a fun world.
- SPSpeaker
Wouldn't you?
- TNTrevor Noah
Buy a country, give everybody the wine.
- SPSpeaker
I mean-
- EKEugene Khoza
Get friends, right?
- TNTrevor Noah
You know what's funny about that story is do you remember, like, I don't know why there's some moments that are seared into my brain. Do you remember when Trump was, like, basically saying Elon's annoying and he's sick-
- SPSpeaker
Yes
- TNTrevor Noah
... of him being around?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
So there was, there's... But this is, like, in public. This is not a secret thing.
- SPSpeaker
No, no.
- EKEugene Khoza
Not on the side?
- TNTrevor Noah
You could... No, no, no. You can see this. Th- they were talking to him about Elon and his work or whatever, and Trump was like, "Yeah, you know Elon, very smart. He's doing big things. Doing big, big things."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
"Very smart. He's, uh, he's been around, always here."
- 1:09:00 – 1:20:00
Stories That Shape Inventions: Matrix, Terminator, Sopranos
- TNTrevor Noah
the scene of Agent Smith with Morpheus.
- EKEugene Khoza
Right.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Where Morpheus is sitting in the chair, and he's restrained.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
And Agent Smith comes up to him, you know, and he's, like, wiping-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... the s- you know, when he kicks the, the other-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... agents out of the room.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
And then he's like, "Get out. Get out." And then he talks to him, and he goes, and he says, like, "You want to know what it is about this place?"
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
"It's the smell, if there is."
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
And he goes-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, they hated being there
- TNTrevor Noah
... yeah, but what I loved was how, like, at, to what you said earlier, complicated villains.
- SPSpeaker
Yes, that's right.
- EKEugene Khoza
Ah.
- SPSpeaker
He was a complicated villain.
- TNTrevor Noah
I was like, imagine this guy hates that he's there.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
He hates that he has to be there.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
He hates that he has to... And, and it was one of the first-
- SPSpeaker
Like the DC National Guard right now.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah. He was-
- SPSpeaker
You saw that, no, they just released a report, and they're like, "Oh, we're-"
- TNTrevor Noah
They hated, they were like, "We hate being there."
- 1:20:00 – 1:24:00
The Jobs She Said No To (Amazon, Google, Facebook!)
- TNTrevor Noah
like-
- SPSpeaker
Just don't. Just don't
- TNTrevor Noah
... what do women think about Amelia Earhart? Do they think-
- SPSpeaker
What women think?
- TNTrevor Noah
All of them
- SPSpeaker
We got together last week [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
We like her.
- EKEugene Khoza
You know more women than me. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Um, I don't know. I don't think people think of Amelia Earhart that much.
- TNTrevor Noah
We think about her a lot.
- SPSpeaker
I guess they probably think she's really interesting.
- TNTrevor Noah
Eugene thinks about her all the time.
- SPSpeaker
Do you?
- EKEugene Khoza
Yeah, I think I actually have a crush on Amelia Earhart.
- SPSpeaker
She's an amazing, amazing character.
- TNTrevor Noah
Amelia Earhart is Eugene's Roman Empire.
- SPSpeaker
I think she's a little more complex than people... You know, they have this vision of her, but actually she had a lot of, some not so great things about her. I mean, she was complex. She was very complex.
- TNTrevor Noah
She was a human being.
- SPSpeaker
She was a human being.
- EKEugene Khoza
What, what would you, where would you go in time? Shoo, I would, uh, I would go hang out with David Chase when he was still thinking about making-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, wow. Okay
- EKEugene Khoza
... The Sopranos. I would just be his friend.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, okay.
- EKEugene Khoza
I would just contribute. Because I love, I, I, because I love The Sopranos so much, I even watched how they were doing the casting-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- EKEugene Khoza
... and who would've gotten which role-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, cool
- EKEugene Khoza
... before which role, and he was at the precipice of s- making some of the best television.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, I love that. My son loves The Sopranos.
- 1:24:00 – 1:29:00
Why Billions Don’t Make You Happy
- SPSpeaker
more money doesn't matter.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
It really does.
- TNTrevor Noah
Absolutely.
- SPSpeaker
It doesn't make you any happier, right? Unless you wanna buy France and buy everybody a, a g- bo- glass of wine-
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
... then you do need that money. But, uh, there is actually, and there's study after study about this, there's a number where people are-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, but you've, you've also seen it though. You-
- SPSpeaker
Yes
- TNTrevor Noah
... y- like you've been on the inside seeing-
- SPSpeaker
I don't see-
- TNTrevor Noah
... these people become some of the richest men in the world-
- SPSpeaker
Yes, but-
- TNTrevor Noah
... and still be very unhappy
- SPSpeaker
... I would have to say on my hand I can count the people who are happy, who I consider.
- TNTrevor Noah
Really?
- SPSpeaker
Mark Cuban would be one of them. Um, that are really truly happy. But, but-
- TNTrevor Noah
What do you find the other people show you that you, you, you, you deem unhappy? What, what is, what is it that they-
- SPSpeaker
They're deeply insecure. They are constantly aggrieved. There's a lot of aggrievement among the wealthy people.
- TNTrevor Noah
Wow.
- SPSpeaker
Do you notice that?
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah. Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Zuckerberg to me is the most, the worst. Like who, you know, everyone's always attacking me. I'm like, oh, Trump is the same way. He's always being under, he's always under siege. How, live like that? That's like a terrible way to live.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Uh, very few are, I would say really happy people in a lot of ways. And the people that stop sort of being so ultra-competitive and demented are happier people, right?
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Um, I suspect Bill Gates is a happier person now after he did all the philanthropy than before.
- TNTrevor Noah
I like this. You, you, when I met you there, you looked like the kind of person who always chooses passion and happiness.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
So when you were young, who, who did you-
- 1:29:00 – 1:35:00
“Ask for the Duck”: Kara’s Best Career Advice
- SPSpeaker
goes, "And I'm thinking this." I go, "I didn't ask you what you were offered. I asked you what you wanna do."
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
"You didn't hear me, what I said to you." She goes, "What's the difference?" I go, "Oh, it's a huge difference."
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Offered is like, "This man wants to marry me. This man wants to marry me."
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
"This..." That's what you got offered.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
That's not who you wanna marry necess- maybe you do. Maybe you don't. And I said, I said, "The, tr- the metaphor to me is a restaurant. You go in, and they have chicken, pork, and lamb, and you want duck. Ask for the fucking duck." And she was like, "Well, what if they don't have duck?" I said, "They have duck."
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
"It's back there." And she goes, "What if they don't have duck?" I said, "They have fucking duck."
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And she goes, "What if they don't have duck?" I said, "Then leave the restaurant and go find the duck restaurant. Like, I don't know what to tell you. If you want duck, have fucking duck." And she's like, "What are you talking about?" I was like, "I am a genius." [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
I was like, I said, "I am giving you this pearl of fucking wisdom."
- TNTrevor Noah
My God.
- SPSpeaker
I was like s-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yes
- SPSpeaker
... "Order the duck."
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
"Just do it. Like, don't have the chicken if you don't want the chicken. Like, you have the ability to choose." And most people in this world, I have to say, are stuck in places they don't... Like, whether you're in Syria, whether you're a woman in, you know, Sudan, like-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... you don't have a choice. Or you're poor, or you're s- you're in, you're in deep poverty without education. Even in this country, like, people don't have choices that other people have. And to, to be... That's why it drives me crazy with the Democrats. Like, "What do we do?" I'm like, "What are you fucking talking about? Lots of things. Let's start with a thing instead of just wallowing in, you know, 'Oh, no, autocracy.'" Really? Does it have, that has to be the choice? No, it doesn't.
- TNTrevor Noah
Don't press anything. We've got more What Now? after this. [upbeat music] You know what you're saying reminds me of a conversation we had with one of our friends in an episode here-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... who said, when you asked him, "Why are you always so happy, Joe?"
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Then he says, "I'm #winning because do you know where I come from?"
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
He says, "In Uganda, all of this-
- 1:35:00 – 1:39:00
Facing Death 5 Times a Day: Kara’s Philosophy
- EKEugene Khoza
at the time, at first I was just like, "This is a, like, really not a vibe."
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- EKEugene Khoza
And then you get into it, and you're like, "Oh, yeah, it's, it's-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- EKEugene Khoza
... it's the, it's the embracing of the impermanence.
- SPSpeaker
That's right. Right.
- EKEugene Khoza
You know? And, and what it does, funny enough, is I remember going on a, um, a guided tour-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- EKEugene Khoza
... in Paris-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- EKEugene Khoza
... with a fantastic tour guide. I always shout him out. Jean-Manuel, if you're ever in Paris-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- EKEugene Khoza
... look him up. Um, and he gave this tour, and one of the main things that I learned from that tour was there are two different kinds of people who get to shape the future.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- EKEugene Khoza
There are people who shape the future knowing that they will not be a part of it.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- EKEugene Khoza
But they know what they wish they would have gotten to be a part of.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- EKEugene Khoza
And then there are people who shape the future as if they will always be there.
- SPSpeaker
That's right.
- EKEugene Khoza
And the latter is oftentimes the worst person to shape the future-
- SPSpeaker
Absolutely
- EKEugene Khoza
... because they don't know that they'll have to let it go. And when I think about some of these tech guys that you're talking about-
- SPSpeaker
Well, that was the impetus for this series, 'cause I had-
- EKEugene Khoza
Oh, really?
- SPSpeaker
... I was at endless dinner parties where they talked about living forever-
- EKEugene Khoza
Yeah, they love it
- SPSpeaker
... putting their brain-
- EKEugene Khoza
No, they love it
- SPSpeaker
... in another thing, and I was like, "For what?"
- 1:39:00 – 1:43:00
Tech Wants You to Live Forever (Should You?)
- SPSpeaker
obesity. They don't have to die of heart disease. They don't have to dis- of m- many, many, many cancers.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm. It just goes away. It's a really interesting idea. And so I wanna get rid of all the charlatans, of which there are so many, and narcissistic charl- charlatans, and then let's look at what really is working.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Which is, it's an amazing field. You know? A- and remove it. And so again, the same thing, it's a love story in the benefits of technology, and it's also a nightmare if it goes another direction. Would you take that pill?
- TNTrevor Noah
No, I wouldn't.
- SPSpeaker
You wouldn't?
- TNTrevor Noah
No. I've thought about this a lot, and I wouldn't.
- SPSpeaker
No, you wouldn't.
- TNTrevor Noah
So the reason I wouldn't take it is because I think one of the greatest lessons I've learned in life-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... is that the value of things is often most appreciated in their scarcity.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
- TNTrevor Noah
So I've seen this through my friends who have children.
- SPSpeaker
Startups too.
- TNTrevor Noah
I've, I've watched them appreciate time differently.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
I, like, I, I ... You know me.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
I have never said the phrase, "Time flies."
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
I've never felt like time flies.
- SPSpeaker
It doesn't.
- TNTrevor Noah
Ever, ever, ever.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
But every single friend of mine who is a parent-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... will go, "I mean, you look up, and you're like, 'Where did the time go?'"
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
And I see them yearn for the time.
- 1:43:00 – 1:53:00
AI, Work & Why Headlines Don’t Matter
- SPSpeaker
the last time-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, yeah
- SPSpeaker
... you churned butter?
- TNTrevor Noah
That's what you mean.
- SPSpeaker
When's the last time you ... You know, you could go through all kinds of technologies.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
And time saving is okay for a lot of those. And a lot of, like, a lot of jobs are so rote, and machines do do them better. And so what, what, what, what the challenge of our society is in the next few governments will be is what do you do when things ... Like, we had a drastic ch- farmers were en- the original entrepreneurs.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
You get it.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Deciding what crops to pick, what hour to do, with the weather, so much like such an entrepreneur to which, which, which, uh, plow to use.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
What, you know, did you do have the innovative new plow? Or I always go look at old plows. I'm fascinated. And as they made the progression-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... and how they ease time for people and, and backbreaking work. And one of the things that's interesting is what, what part of that do you ... When we went from farming to not farming-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm
- SPSpeaker
It was the right decision, right? Because that was artisanal and done in a small way. So what is that right now, and then what can we do to help people transition to the better job, right?
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
To, or what is the better job? Like, I think a lot about self-driving. I love EV. I love, like, Waymo. I, I've been in it since the beginning.
- TNTrevor Noah
They're really fun.
- SPSpeaker
I was in the original, original one, the one-
- TNTrevor Noah
They're really fun
- SPSpeaker
... when they first invented it.
- TNTrevor Noah
You were in, like, the, the, the-
- SPSpeaker
This was 10 year, 10, 12 years ago, when Google had it in the parking lot. I ran over there. I'm like, "Put me in this fucking thing, and let me see who I can run over."
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Um, because I wanted to see how good you guys are. I mean, I made, I made-
- TNTrevor Noah
They're like, "No, you can't get in the car."
- SPSpeaker
I-
- TNTrevor Noah
"But we do have shrimp." [laughs]
- 1:53:00 – 1:56:00
Making Media People Actually Want
- SPSpeaker
care what they call it. They can call it Phyllis, I don't really care. But as long as it's good.
- TNTrevor Noah
Phyllis is a great name for a network.
- SPSpeaker
I know.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
I know, right? It doesn't matter. If it's good, it's good.
- TNTrevor Noah
Did you see what happened on Phyllis?
- SPSpeaker
Phyllis, yeah. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
I like that, actually.
- SPSpeaker
Or Barbara.
- TNTrevor Noah
Phyllis.
- SPSpeaker
Barbara.
- TNTrevor Noah
Are you the, are you the guy from Phyllis?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Excuse me, ma'am, did I see you, did I see you on Phyllis the other day? I actually like that.
- SPSpeaker
Or Barbara. Barbara's another name that isn't-
- TNTrevor Noah
Barbara's a nice one
- SPSpeaker
... Barbara.
- TNTrevor Noah
But Phyllis is really-
- SPSpeaker
Phyllis, right
- TNTrevor Noah
... that's like a cool-
- SPSpeaker
It is a cool name.
- EKEugene Khoza
I can't, I can't hear the word Phyllis-
- TNTrevor Noah
This is Phyllis
- EKEugene Khoza
... without thinking about-
- SPSpeaker
Phyllis Diller? What?
- EKEugene Khoza
Syphilis.
- SPSpeaker
Syphilis. Okay.
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, damn.
- SPSpeaker
Okay, wow. You went there.
- TNTrevor Noah
The f- is that the full... Wow, Eugene. Huh.
- 1:56:00 – 2:05:00
Why Trevor Doesn’t Miss TV (And What He Does Miss)
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- TNTrevor Noah
... if there's a... Then is it a podcast, is it not?
- SPSpeaker
It's a vlogcast.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, people love giving things names.
- SPSpeaker
Young-cast.
- TNTrevor Noah
It's a TV movie.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
It's a movie.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- TNTrevor Noah
No, it's a TV movie.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
It's a movie. You're just watching it on TV.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
All, all of these things.
- SPSpeaker
Probably your phone.
- TNTrevor Noah
So for me, what I genuinely, the thing that I miss-
- SPSpeaker
Pick up your remote
- TNTrevor Noah
... the, the only thing that I miss-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... is engaging with the human beings that I engage with.
- SPSpeaker
Got it.
- TNTrevor Noah
So I loved working on problems and ideas with a team.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
I loved the jokes that we would tell each other in the writers' room.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
I loved the meetings that we would have.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
I loved meeting with the audience-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- TNTrevor Noah
... and having them ask question. That's all that I miss genuinely, and my friends I think can account for this.
Episode duration: 2:11:58
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Transcript of episode SNDKvd-gorE
