Kara Swisher: The Queen of Tech Tells All

Trevor Noah 0:00 Kara Swisher is widely considered the most powerful and plugged in reporter in the world of big tech

Speaker 0:06 Kara Swisher knows Silicon Valley as well as anyone.

Trevor Noah 0:09 My source tonight is the veteran tech insider Kara Swisher, the host of the podcast On with Kara Swisher at Pivot. Who do you consider your competitors? You tend to go wrong by focusing too much on competition.

0:19 We wanna dominate in the great next global industry.

0:22 Do you feel like it's a backlash, or do you feel like you're violating people's privacy? What do you do all day?

Speaker 0:27 Uh, well-

Trevor Noah 0:27 Most people think not enough. [laughs]

Speaker 0:28 There is no better expert, so I gotta go to you on this.

Trevor Noah 0:31 You've been-

Speaker 0:32 Yeah

Trevor Noah 0:32 ... following how these tech companies deal with-

Speaker 0:34 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 0:34 ... misinformation, disinformation, conspiracy theories, and you've seen-

Speaker 0:38 Right

Trevor Noah 0:38 ... the struggle.

Kara Swisher 0:39 If we want innovation in the future in AI-

Speaker 0:41 Mm-hmm

Kara Swisher 0:42 ... in robotics, in advanced medical stuff, we have to have a robust pipeline of talent from across the globe. [upbeat music]

Trevor Noah 0:54 This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. [upbeat music]

Trevor Noah 1:09 The end of this podcast-

Speaker 1:10 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:11 ... you would have got me a thing or two.

Speaker 1:12 We're gonna take a selfie.

Trevor Noah 1:12 You'd have...

Speaker 1:13 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:13 The pictures are amazing.

Speaker 1:14 He was like, "Where did you-"

Trevor Noah 1:15 What do you mean? Like, the composition and the-

Speaker 1:16 No

Trevor Noah 1:16 ... everything.

Speaker 1:16 No. He said, "Where did you learn how to do selfies?" And actually, Kim Kardashian taught me. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:19 No, are you being serious?

Kara Swisher 1:20 I didn't expect that.

Speaker 1:21 I'm being serious.

Trevor Noah 1:21 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Kara Swisher 1:22 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:22 Wait. Wait, wait.

Speaker 1:23 [laughs] I showed you. I showed this one.

Trevor Noah 1:24 But not, not, not... Yeah, but show, show him what he-

Speaker 1:27 He showed... Oh, okay

Trevor Noah 1:28 ... or she taught you.

Speaker 1:28 So she was teaching me duck face.

Trevor Noah 1:29 Yes. Okay.

Kara Swisher 1:30 [laughs]

Speaker 1:30 In that, in that time we were together. So she's like, "Here's how you do it," and she showed me. She has a light, this Lumi light around her camera.

Trevor Noah 1:37 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 1:37 The front face.

Speaker 1:37 It's right there. That's how the picture looked.

Trevor Noah 1:40 Kim Kardashian taught you how to take selfies?

Speaker 1:42 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:43 But your day-to-day camera.

Speaker 1:44 She's good at it.

Kara Swisher 1:45 Is horrible.

Trevor Noah 1:45 No, I mean, she, I, I'm assuming she's brilliant at it.

Kara Swisher 1:47 Eugene, show him some of your day-to-day pictures of family.

Speaker 1:48 Oh, oh.

Kara Swisher 1:49 Oh, those are amazing.

Speaker 1:50 All right.

Kara Swisher 1:51 Oh.

Speaker 1:51 All right. Uh.

Kara Swisher 1:51 Every time I've tried to take a ph- it looks like I'm using a Nokia 3210.

Speaker 1:54 Oh, let's see. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:56 That, that phone did not have a camera, so you can only-

Kara Swisher 1:58 That's what I was about to say.

Trevor Noah 1:59 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 1:59 I was like, I don't know why that image was even better for me, because the Nokia 3210 doesn't have a camera. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 2:04 Exactly.

Speaker 2:05 Well, why are those there?

Trevor Noah 2:06 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 2:07 My pictures look like there's someone with a sketch pad and...

Trevor Noah 2:10 Oh, man.

Speaker 2:12 All right.

Trevor Noah 2:12 You are so good at pictures.

Speaker 2:14 That's all four of them with, uh, their babysitter, both the same-

Trevor Noah 2:17 You're not... You know, you know, I didn't know what to expect-

Speaker 2:19 Y-

Trevor Noah 2:19 ... but you're not wrong.

Speaker 2:20 No, there they are.

Trevor Noah 2:21 Yeah, the, the composition-

Speaker 2:23 That's them

Trevor Noah 2:23 ... the lighting, the picture

Speaker 2:24 ... looking like a pile.

Kara Swisher 2:25 But where you're standing at, uh-

Speaker 2:26 Pig pile. See?

Trevor Noah 2:28 [laughs]

Speaker 2:29 They love doing that. But we just put a sheet up behind us and took the, the sheet metal-

Trevor Noah 2:33 And then you just jumped in.

Speaker 2:34 Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 2:36 Do you think, do you think the cameras are actually getting better on these phones?

Speaker 2:38 They are so good. The new camera on the iPh- the new iPhone-

Trevor Noah 2:40 Do you leave your phone portrait unlocked or locked?

Speaker 2:43 I let it decide whatever it's gonna do.

Trevor Noah 2:45 You let it turn?

Speaker 2:45 Yeah, these are amazing computers. They're astonishing.

Trevor Noah 2:48 Mm-hmm. No, I'm, I'm just always intrigued by which people keep it locked or keep it unlocked.

Speaker 2:52 Unlocked.

Trevor Noah 2:53 Do you, do you keep yours-

Speaker 2:54 'Cause if I wanna watch something-

Trevor Noah 2:55 So if you turn it sideways, does it turn?

Speaker 2:57 Yes. Lock it.

Kara Swisher 2:59 I've just explained to you now.

Speaker 3:00 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 3:01 Do you, do you know what I-

Kara Swisher 3:01 That the pictures that I take-

Speaker 3:02 I don't...

Trevor Noah 3:02 Do you know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 3:03 No, he doesn't.

Trevor Noah 3:04 Eugene is the perfect person to have this conversation with us-

Speaker 3:06 Yeah

Trevor Noah 3:07 ... because he's, like, a mega Luddite.

Speaker 3:08 Okay.

Trevor Noah 3:08 But without trying to-

Speaker 3:09 Right here, there's, there's a thing called the lock screen on this.

Trevor Noah 3:12 Yes, yes.

Speaker 3:12 You lock it, and it doesn't... When you do, you do that, it doesn't do it. You unlock it, and then if you're watching a movie or, or something on YouTube-

Trevor Noah 3:19 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 3:20 Just do everything in real time.

Speaker 3:21 Except you're in, you're, you're in-

Trevor Noah 3:23 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 3:24 Is it unlocked?

Speaker 3:24 It is now unlocked. Now it's locked. Yeah, there we go. There. It's unlocked.

Kara Swisher 3:26 But then keep it unlocked.

Speaker 3:27 Keep it unlocked in case you're watching, like-

Trevor Noah 3:30 If you wanna turn your screen.

Kara Swisher 3:31 Then it just goes-

Trevor Noah 3:31 But I don't like, I don't like my screen turning when I turn the screen.

Speaker 3:35 Oh, okay. All right. Well-

Trevor Noah 3:37 Do you know what I mean? I'm very intentional about those moments, so sometimes what I don't like is it will turn when I'm not trying to turn.

Speaker 3:42 By itself. That's right. That's right.

Trevor Noah 3:43 I just wanna look at my phone from a different angle.

Speaker 3:45 Oh, yes. Then you should lock it then.

Kara Swisher 3:46 Oh, sometimes you're just minding your business going, "Hmm," and then it'll go, "Hmm."

Trevor Noah 3:49 Yeah, and then it turns.

Speaker 3:50 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 3:50 I don't like that.

Speaker 3:51 Right.

Trevor Noah 3:51 So I'm like, "Don't turn for me."

Speaker 3:52 Don't turn. Don't turn.

Trevor Noah 3:52 I will tell you when it's time to turn. Plus, a lot of the apps that have come out now, they, um, they autorotate when you go into, like, a full screen mode.

Speaker 3:59 That's right. They do. They can.

Trevor Noah 4:01 So I feel like it's, uh-

Speaker 4:02 You feel like your free will is taken.

Trevor Noah 4:04 This is, this is exactly what I'm-

Speaker 4:06 This is-

Kara Swisher 4:06 So would you say I'm a-

Speaker 4:06 This is autocracy.

Kara Swisher 4:08 My-

Speaker 4:08 Really.

Trevor Noah 4:09 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 4:09 Yeah.

Speaker 4:09 You really wanna get into it.

Trevor Noah 4:10 This is my true challenge in life.

Speaker 4:11 Yes. Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Kara Swisher 4:12 But I keep it...

Trevor Noah 4:13 No, you do what you want. See what your vibe is. But at least now you know-

Speaker 4:16 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 4:17 ... 'cause Kara Swisher has told... By the way-

Speaker 4:18 Yeah

Trevor Noah 4:19 ... um, n- welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 4:20 Thank you.

Trevor Noah 4:20 And more, and more importantly, happy birthday.

Speaker 4:22 It's not my birthday.

Trevor Noah 4:24 Yeah, I feel like it's never your birthday.

Speaker 4:25 No, it's never. I put birthdays all over the internet-

Trevor Noah 4:27 Yes

Speaker 4:27 ... so nobody knows my birthday.

Trevor Noah 4:28 Yeah, but then I-

Kara Swisher 4:29 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 4:29 Then I feel like, but then I feel like-

Speaker 4:31 Every day is my birthday

Trevor Noah 4:31 ... I should say happy birthday to you.

Speaker 4:32 Every month is my birthday.

Trevor Noah 4:34 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 4:34 [laughs]

Speaker 4:34 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 4:34 You know, when I read this about you, I was like, "This is one of the craziest things-

Speaker 4:37 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 4:37 ... and most amazing things-

Speaker 4:38 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 4:39 ... I've ever..." When did you start doing this?

Speaker 4:41 In 1993. 1992, 3.

Trevor Noah 4:44 You put up your first fake birthday?

Speaker 4:46 No, no, I did that later, after I realized what was happening with the privacy stuff, which was relatively soon. I just kept telling different things. They, there's a, there's a correct birthday up there. They've found the real birthday, so.

Trevor Noah 4:57 But you just keep...

Speaker 4:59 I just change it and

Speaker 5:00 tell people different things, and just, I put it up in places. I'll change it at, at different places just to, just 'cause I don't want people to necessarily know my birthday. 'Cause I was really worried about privacy from the get-go.

Trevor Noah 5:11 Yeah.

Speaker 5:11 When, when AOL started, I started covering AOL in the '90s, and that was the first, you know, iteration of where we are today. F- popular one. There were others. There was, you know, there were all kinds of, um, m- message boards and things like that.

Trevor Noah 5:24 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Speaker 5:24 But it was real complicated, and if you didn't, it was not easy to use. And so AOL was the first commercial interpretation of what we see today, and that wasn't even the internet. That was a service that was then attached to the internet.

Trevor Noah 5:37 Hmm.

Speaker 5:37 That was, you know, a sep- it was not the internet. It was like a walled garden approach. And the minute I saw what AOL was doing, I realized they were scraping and stealing information so they could take advantage of you and sell advertising.

Trevor Noah 5:49 You knew this in 1993?

Speaker 5:50 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it was obvious what they were doing. What did they need all this information? Why were advertising come back that, uh, were based on my searches and stuff?

Trevor Noah 6:00 Hmm.

Speaker 6:00 And then when Google was there, I got it right away. You understood what their b-... Well, initially, Google's business model was not advertising. They didn't have one, actually. They came upon advertising.

Trevor Noah 6:10 This is, I remember using AOL-

Speaker 6:14 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 6:14 ... and I don't know what it was like in America, but in South Africa, we didn't really have these services full on.

Speaker 6:20 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 6:20 So we would get a, a CD.

Speaker 6:23 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 6:23 A disk.

Speaker 6:24 Everybody did.

Trevor Noah 6:25 Oh, that was the same?

Speaker 6:26 Yes.

Trevor Noah 6:26 And I-

Speaker 6:26 Everybody, that was their method of marketing.

Trevor Noah 6:28 Yeah, and I could only access it for, like, it was, like, 30 minutes.

Speaker 6:31 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 6:31 Like, each disk gave me 30 minutes.

Speaker 6:33 Yes, to try it out, to try it out, right?

Trevor Noah 6:34 And then that was... But in my world, I didn't know when the next disk would come, so I'd go on these little chat rooms, and these, like-

Speaker 6:41 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 6:41 ... I'd make friends on these chat sites.

Speaker 6:42 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 6:43 You know? And I remember it was, like, age, sex, location, ASL.

Speaker 6:46 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 6:46 And you type that in.

Speaker 6:47 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 6:47 And then I would go, you know, age, uh, male, and location, South Africa. Then people would be like, "You're lying."

Speaker 6:53 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 6:53 That was the first thing everyone said.

Speaker 6:54 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 6:54 "You're lying."

Speaker 6:55 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 6:55 Like, "There's no internet in Africa."

Speaker 6:56 Ah, yes, there is. Well, there's not as much, I'll tell you that. That was, that-

Trevor Noah 6:59 Yes

Speaker 7:00 ... yeah.

Trevor Noah 7:00 But they were like, "There's no internet in Africa."

Speaker 7:01 Right, right.

Trevor Noah 7:02 And then I would say, sort of like your birthday thing, I would go, "Well, I'm the prince of my village-

Speaker 7:06 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 7:06 ... and I have the one computer." And you know what was crazy? That's when they accepted it. They're like, "Ah."

Eugene Khoza 7:10 You're not a prince?

Speaker 7:11 Ah.

Trevor Noah 7:11 They're like, "That makes sense."

Speaker 7:12 Prince, the Prince of South Africa. [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 7:13 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 7:13 That makes sense.

Speaker 7:14 You know-

Trevor Noah 7:14 Welcome to the internet

Speaker 7:15 ... you know, it's interesting you said that about Africa, 'cause in the early days, Google had this amazing visualization when you entered the company. It was a small company at the time. And it would show a globe where all the information requests were coming from, and it was different colors based on language. And so it, it was sort of a light visualization. So it would show the amount of questions being asked around the world, and it would be, like, beams of light, almost like skyscrapers, right?

Trevor Noah 7:40 Yeah.

Speaker 7:40 And you'd see New York, big skyscraper, and lots of languages. Or, and you'd spin around to Europe, and there'd be a lot with lots of li- like Germany had German, French, whatever they were speaking, and you'd see lots of light. And you would spin around to different... E- Asia was just a, a bright because they were using internet. And 'cause the cables that went across the, the seas were, were linking all these countries, right? Africa had almost no light-

Trevor Noah 8:05 Yeah

Speaker 8:05 ... coming off of it. It was am- And I remember turning to Sergey or Larry, I, I can't ever tell them apart at this point.

Trevor Noah 8:12 [laughs]

Speaker 8:12 And, uh, and I said, "What's going on?" And they, he, he said, "They're not asking questions." I said, "No, they're not allowed to ask questions because they don't have access. They have questions." So y- y- you know, this whole, asking questions is about modernity, when you ask questions. And they weren't, this one continent was not able to ask questions 'cause they didn't

Speaker 8:30 have the fiber laid. But when wireless showed up, it grew really fast because then, and whether it's be satellite or whatever it happens to be, they got, they ha- Fiber is a problem ultimately, so when wireless happened, it, it changed the fact.

Trevor Noah 8:45 Yeah, like the phys- the physical inf- infrastructure in most developing nations is the hardest thing-

Speaker 8:48 Doesn't exist

Trevor Noah 8:49 ... to get going.

Speaker 8:49 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 8:49 But that's why wireless became the revolution.

Speaker 8:52 Yes.

Trevor Noah 8:52 So in, in South Africa, and I think many parts of Southern Africa and India-

Speaker 8:56 Yes

Trevor Noah 8:56 ... we actually leapfrogged the United States-

Speaker 8:57 You did, for speed

Trevor Noah 8:58 ... in our connectivity and speed.

Speaker 9:00 Connectivity and speed.

Trevor Noah 9:00 Like, I remember visiting America, and 3G wasn't a thing here, and people were still on, like, old CDMA technology, like a GPRS, I think.

Speaker 9:07 That's for another reason, because the companies didn't wanna modernize. And so-

Trevor Noah 9:11 No

Speaker 9:11 ... you know, one of the things we did in, I did an interview at the, at the time, the head of the, uh, FCC, and the US had the most expensive internet access-

Trevor Noah 9:20 Yeah

Speaker 9:20 ... and the least fast.

Trevor Noah 9:22 Hmm.

Speaker 9:22 So I was like, "Oh, so we're getting shitty service for the most expensive price."

Trevor Noah 9:26 [laughs]

Speaker 9:26 And it was because of the way these things were monopolies, and they didn't g- you know, they, whatever the cable, the cable barons didn't, owned a certain section, and whether they decided to modernize or not was when things got modernized. And so there was no competition, and they tried to keep satellite out. They tried to keep all kinds of things out in the United States 'cause we let these corporations rule the roost, as we always do. Um, and that's why it was so slow to get here. Competition is what everything's about in general.

Trevor Noah 9:54 There's two things you've said that, that just sparked, like, uh, sort of how we should be looking at tech even through-

Speaker 9:59 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 9:59 ... today's lens. The first one was when you said you're at Google. You're talking to the two people who've-

Speaker 10:04 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 10:04 ... started Google.

Speaker 10:04 Right.

Trevor Noah 10:05 They have a device that tracks where people are asking questions from in the world.

Speaker 10:09 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 10:10 They see no questions from Africa, and they're like, "Nah, as Africans aren't asking questions."

Speaker 10:13 Well, that was their first thing. And also, what they also had is-

Trevor Noah 10:16 But, but what, what I'm saying-

Speaker 10:16 Yeah

Trevor Noah 10:16 ... to that point, so, yeah, and, and I wanna hear what you're gonna say after that, but it's wild to me that th- the people who are, like, sort of seen as shaping the world-

Speaker 10:26 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 10:26 ... and the most intelligent weren't intelligent enough to come to the conclusion you came to.

Speaker 10:29 I don't think

Speaker 10:30 they're the most intelligent. I don't, I-

Trevor Noah 10:31 Yeah, but that's how they're seen is what I mean.

Speaker 10:32 Well, of course, 'cause we g- we have to make these people into gods, right?

Trevor Noah 10:36 Hmm.

Speaker 10:36 They're magicians. They're gods. They're not gods. They're just people, and very broken people, many of them. I mean, look at Elon Musk from your country, and, uh-

Eugene Khoza 10:43 Mm-mm, mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 10:43 Wow, wow, wow, Kara. Wow.

Speaker 10:45 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 10:45 Damn. Damn, the way she just threw that at us.

Eugene Khoza 10:49 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 10:49 From your country.

Speaker 10:50 He said, "I am, he's a proud i-

Trevor Noah 10:51 That was so slick.

Speaker 10:52 He's a proud immigrant.

Trevor Noah 10:53 That was such a slick-

Speaker 10:54 It just happened to be in Britain.

Trevor Noah 10:55 She threw a ninja star at us.

Eugene Khoza 10:57 Oh, good. [laughs]

Speaker 10:58 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 10:58 And look at Elon Musk, that crazy bastard. From your country.

Eugene Khoza 11:01 From your country.

Trevor Noah 11:01 Ah.

Speaker 11:02 But he was very, but he was...

Eugene Khoza 11:04 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 11:04 [laughs]

Speaker 11:04 I meant that as a compliment. I meant that as a compliment. Uh, he was an export into this country.

Trevor Noah 11:10 Okay.

Speaker 11:11 And, and sh-

Eugene Khoza 11:11 We'll, we'll take that

Speaker 11:12 ... good for us for letting him in.

Trevor Noah 11:14 Okay.

Speaker 11:14 That was great.

Trevor Noah 11:15 All right. [laughs]

Speaker 11:15 You know, uh, maybe not today, but-

Eugene Khoza 11:17 [laughs]

Speaker 11:17 ... yes, for a while, for sure. Um, but, uh, yeah, he should... [laughs] Well, he should go to Mars. Let's just be clear. Let's not, let's send him to Mars. Let's move him to another-

Trevor Noah 11:27 I sometimes think he's just trying to get home.

Speaker 11:29 Oh, to Mars? Yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 11:30 Like, what, if we found out that Elon Musk was an alien who's always just been trying to go home-

Speaker 11:34 Yeah

Trevor Noah 11:34 ... it wouldn't be the most shocking thing-

Speaker 11:36 No

Trevor Noah 11:36 ... when you think about it.

Speaker 11:36 You're right.

Trevor Noah 11:37 You look at his mannerisms, the way he jumps, his vibe, the way he d- he doesn't, like, really understand-

Speaker 11:42 Yeah

Trevor Noah 11:42 ... human empathy the same way.

Speaker 11:43 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 11:43 What if the guy's just trying to go home?

Speaker 11:45 He's-

Eugene Khoza 11:45 So he's a trapped alien who's trying to get home?

Speaker 11:47 Yeah, there's been movies like that.

Trevor Noah 11:47 Yes, because he can't tell us he's an alien.

Speaker 11:48 There's been movies like that. Remember where they're like that?

Eugene Khoza 11:50 Many of them.

Trevor Noah 11:51 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 11:51 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 11:52 Like, "Ah, ah, ah."

Speaker 11:52 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 11:53 "To tr- ah, ah."

Speaker 11:53 Yeah, very well done.

Eugene Khoza 11:54 Yeah.

Speaker 11:54 Yeah, well done.

Trevor Noah 11:55 Like if, so if you were an alien who was trapped on Earth, and you knew you had advanced technology-

Eugene Khoza 12:00 So he's the only one here.

Speaker 12:01 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 12:01 Yes

Eugene Khoza 12:01 Of his kind.

Speaker 12:02 Well-

Trevor Noah 12:02 You have super advanced technology.

Speaker 12:03 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 12:04 How, you're not gonna come out and tell humans, "I'm an alien." You know what we'd do to you.

Speaker 12:08 Right, right, we-

Trevor Noah 12:08 You know?

Eugene Khoza 12:09 I think the big-

Speaker 12:09 Dissect you-

Trevor Noah 12:10 You-

Speaker 12:10 ... obviously

Trevor Noah 12:10 ... exactly.

Eugene Khoza 12:11 The bigger question should be why did they send him here?

Trevor Noah 12:13 No, but Elon-

Speaker 12:14 Maybe he got stuck

Trevor Noah 12:14 ... he said they sent him.

Speaker 12:15 Maybe he got stuck.

Trevor Noah 12:16 I like this.

Eugene Khoza 12:16 He got lost?

Trevor Noah 12:17 Yeah.

Speaker 12:17 Maybe he got lost.

Trevor Noah 12:18 Maybe his, maybe his spaceship broke down.

Speaker 12:19 His pod. His pod.

Eugene Khoza 12:20 And where, where is it?

Trevor Noah 12:22 What do you mean?

Speaker 12:22 It fell in the sea.

Eugene Khoza 12:23 Oh, so he was in the sea and then he swam-

Speaker 12:26 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 12:26 ... to South Africa.

Trevor Noah 12:27 Interesting.

Speaker 12:27 Because he's an alien-

Trevor Noah 12:27 He just got, like, stuck

Speaker 12:27 ... so he's got-

Trevor Noah 12:28 Yeah

Speaker 12:28 ... fish-like tendencies.

Eugene Khoza 12:29 And how do you explain that he raises his dad?

Trevor Noah 12:30 Oof, that's a tough one.

Speaker 12:33 He buys sperm.

Trevor Noah 12:34 Maybe, okay, maybe.

Eugene Khoza 12:35 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 12:36 Maybe it's, maybe it's like Clark Kent and Superman.

Speaker 12:38 Mm-hmm.

Eugene Khoza 12:38 Mm.

Trevor Noah 12:38 Maybe his dad, like, found his pod and then has just been raising him.

Speaker 12:41 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 12:42 So he was out fishing.

Speaker 12:43 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 12:43 Yes.

Speaker 12:44 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 12:44 And then all of a sudden there was a floating...

Trevor Noah 12:46 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 12:46 Eh.

Speaker 12:46 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 12:47 And then he f-

Eugene Khoza 12:48 And then-

Trevor Noah 12:48 And then, and then he raised him.

Speaker 12:49 Mm.

Trevor Noah 12:49 And he was like his son.

Speaker 12:49 And then he gave him a meat suit. A meat suit.

Trevor Noah 12:51 There you go.

Speaker 12:52 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 12:52 Ah.

Speaker 12:53 Mm-hmm.

Eugene Khoza 12:54 But wh- what was he before? Was he like a-

Speaker 12:56 We don't know

Eugene Khoza 12:56 ... weird blob?

Trevor Noah 12:57 We don't know.

Eugene Khoza 12:57 A square tank?

Speaker 12:58 We don't know.

Trevor Noah 12:58 We'll never know.

Speaker 12:58 We'll never know.

Trevor Noah 12:59 Until we get to Mars, we'll never know Elon's true form.

Speaker 13:01 Well, we actually know what people look like on Mars. If they... Actually, today, interestingly, you're talking about, they, they found some bias, uh, bio on Mars. It was a speckled rock, and it has-

Trevor Noah 13:10 Wait, what?

Speaker 13:11 They found something that's akin to life there. It's not a person-

Trevor Noah 13:14 Mm-hmm

Speaker 13:14 ... but it's, it's a, I think it feels like it's almost like lichen or something on this rock. It's a speckled rock with bio material.

Trevor Noah 13:22 On it.

Speaker 13:22 That's what they're calling it. On it, yeah. So that life does ex- well, water exists there. Lots of stuff exists there, so there's a possibility

Speaker 13:30 of further life. That said, interesting, I just interviewed a bio- uh, a, an astro, uh, biologist and physicist.

Trevor Noah 13:38 Yeah.

Speaker 13:38 And he, and he was noting, he was s- he wrote a book called, his name's Adam Becker, wrote More Everything Forever, which is a sort of motto of tech people.

Trevor Noah 13:45 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 13:46 Which is not, you can't have more everything forever.

Eugene Khoza 13:48 No.

Trevor Noah 13:48 Yeah.

Speaker 13:48 Right?

Trevor Noah 13:48 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 13:48 But they think that. And so he was blowing up the Mars idea, because Mars is, they've got gravity issues, they've got massive radiation issues. It's constantly hit by, um-

Eugene Khoza 13:59 That's true

Speaker 13:59 ... comets and asteroids and stuff like that. And so he was like, "Literally the, the worst day on Earth is better than the best day on Mars," [laughs] like because-

Trevor Noah 14:09 Wow

Speaker 14:09 ... you have to live below ground, like deep into the ground.

Trevor Noah 14:13 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 14:13 You have to, um, protect yourself from radiation. You, your bones get, get-

Eugene Khoza 14:18 Brittle?

Speaker 14:18 ... I think more brittle. I, I'm not sure what hap- but you get shorter is what happens.

Trevor Noah 14:22 I'm, I'm this.

Speaker 14:23 And you get stupider, and if, and you get stupider-

Trevor Noah 14:25 I, I-

Speaker 14:25 ... when you're there. And so you do become, you know, these depictions of Martians as sort of mole people is actually kind of accurate.

Trevor Noah 14:31 Wow.

Speaker 14:31 That's what would happen to humans there on this day.

Trevor Noah 14:33 That could be us.

Speaker 14:34 Right.

Trevor Noah 14:35 Th- this is sometimes where I think of, like, you know, like the sci-fi stories-

Speaker 14:38 Also, it's freezing cold and hot, too.

Trevor Noah 14:39 Yeah, I think-

Eugene Khoza 14:39 At the same time?

Speaker 14:40 Different time-

Eugene Khoza 14:41 Or alternately?

Speaker 14:42 No, no, on the same day. Like, they, the, at-

Trevor Noah 14:44 It just, like, goes, it oscillates between-

Speaker 14:45 It oscillates, yeah, and you age really quickly, which is another thing, so there's no reason to wanna go there.

Eugene Khoza 14:52 Yeah, at all. You didn't sell it well.

Speaker 14:53 Did, it's not-

Trevor Noah 14:54 So then what is their, what is their obsession with it? I, I think-

Speaker 14:56 'Cause you can get to it

Eugene Khoza 14:57 ... it's closeness.

Trevor Noah 14:57 No, but I, but I, uh, but I mean, like, I wonder if you've garnered an insight, you know, going back to what we were talking about, these men are seen, in today's world at least-

Speaker 15:05 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 15:05 ... they're seen as, like, demigods. I've, I've talked to people-

Speaker 15:09 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 15:09 ... who genuinely believe that you should never, ever question Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos-

Speaker 15:15 Well, not, not anymore

Trevor Noah 15:16 ... or-

Speaker 15:16 Not anymore. That's changed recently.

Trevor Noah 15:18 Slowly, yeah.

Speaker 15:19 Mm, I don't know. I think their, their, their brand is not great these days. I mean, Elon's brand-

Trevor Noah 15:23 Yes

Speaker 15:23 ... was quite high, and now it's, I think he was the most hated person in America recently, uh, reas- I mean, over Trump.

Trevor Noah 15:28 This was in a, in a, um-

Speaker 15:30 In a poll, one of these polls. I was surprised. I was like, "Not Trump? It's him. It's actually, um-"

Trevor Noah 15:35 It's actually Elon Musk?

Speaker 15:36 "... Musk." Yeah, his brand.

Trevor Noah 15:36 'Cause he went against Trump. That was a mistake.

Speaker 15:38 And look at, l- l- no, that's not why. That's not why.

Trevor Noah 15:40 What do you think it was?

Speaker 15:40 It was decli- it was already, 'cause he acts like an asshole. Like, it, it, you know? And he showed himself, he showed his ass. I mean, that's what he did. He showed his ass.

Trevor Noah 15:48 Yeah.

Speaker 15:48 And I think you noticed, wow, he's a little strange. Wow, he's cutting without indiscriminately. Wow, he doesn't know what he's talking about. He kept showing his ass, and you were like, "Oh, wait a minute."

Trevor Noah 15:58 Yeah, he is an ass.

Speaker 15:58 You know? And, and just,

Speaker 16:00 um, jumping up and down, saying, tweeting things about how we need more white people on the planet-

Trevor Noah 16:05 Mm-hmm

Speaker 16:05 ... and et cetera. You start to be, like, sort of repelled by it. And y- look at the brand. Look, look, I don't have to prove it. I don't think it's just because people don't like him that Tesla's s- s- sales have plummeted. Um, I think that's part of it. Other part, he doesn't have a car anybody wants anymore, and there's lots of competition. Uh, China is, is, is, is tracking him all, you know, across the globe, BYD, making great, innovative-

Trevor Noah 16:29 Yeah

Speaker 16:29 ... cars.

Trevor Noah 16:30 Yeah.

Speaker 16:30 All across the globe. In this country, a whole bunch of car makers have great, Rivian, or Ford has some great cars. Everybody's now competing, and Tesla hasn't innovated in a very long time, except for the Cybertruck, which, as you know, is the ugliest car in existence.

Trevor Noah 16:46 [laughs]

Speaker 16:47 And no, and it's, hasn't been able to sell very many-

Trevor Noah 16:49 [laughs]

Speaker 16:49 ... except to, for men of problematic penis size, so.

Trevor Noah 16:53 [laughs]

Speaker 16:55 Maybe a woman or two.

Eugene Khoza 16:56 How, h- how do we as society avoid men-

Speaker 16:58 With a penis

Eugene Khoza 16:58 ... of problematic penis sizes? [laughs]

Speaker 17:00 Well-

Trevor Noah 17:00 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 17:00 'Cause you're a parent of five

Speaker 17:02 ... three, three men, yes. Three, no, three, three young, two young men and one boy.

Eugene Khoza 17:07 Yes.

Speaker 17:07 Yes, yes. Uh, I don't know. I think it's really, um, it's, uh, it's, I think it's been with us forever. That's not a new, fresh insight.

Trevor Noah 17:13 Yeah, I, you know what? I actually think, um, I actually think we are in a cycle. Like, it's a, it's a loop of life.

Speaker 17:19 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 17:21 We, we often forget that tech was the domain of the nerd.

Speaker 17:25 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 17:25 Right?

Speaker 17:26 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 17:26 Like, I know when I was burning CDs, like when I had my

Trevor Noah 17:30 first CD-ROM-

Speaker 17:31 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 17:31 ... my first CD writer-

Speaker 17:32 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 17:32 ... my modem, when I was building my own little rig, when I-

Speaker 17:35 Oh, cute

Trevor Noah 17:35 ... you know what I mean?

Speaker 17:35 Yeah. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 17:36 When I was in that world-

Speaker 17:37 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 17:37 ... I can tell you now, that world did not brush up against anything cool-

Speaker 17:42 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 17:42 ... or sexual.

Speaker 17:43 Yes, no.

Trevor Noah 17:44 Okay?

Speaker 17:45 Not at all.

Trevor Noah 17:45 The, none of that.

Speaker 17:45 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 17:46 There-

Speaker 17:46 Fast-forward to today, that's why

Trevor Noah 17:47 ... there was no world where I could say to you, "Ah, my PCI slot got me closer to that woman." No.

Speaker 17:53 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 17:53 Never happened.

Eugene Khoza 17:54 A lot of things are making sense about you now.

Trevor Noah 17:55 [laughs] So-

Eugene Khoza 17:56 A lot. And you know, I'm glad you're opening up about this because-

Trevor Noah 18:00 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 18:01 ... there's times where I have questions.

Speaker 18:04 [laughs] There, you just had them answered.

Eugene Khoza 18:07 But this-

Speaker 18:07 When he said PCI slot

Eugene Khoza 18:08 ... the brushing up against PCI slots.

Speaker 18:09 I know.

Trevor Noah 18:10 It is.

Speaker 18:10 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 18:10 It was, it was a complete-

Speaker 18:11 He's trying to make a sexual reference, but it didn't work

Trevor Noah 18:13 ... it was com- no, no, I wasn't at all.

Speaker 18:14 It didn't land.

Trevor Noah 18:14 Genuinely.

Eugene Khoza 18:15 You see? The problem.

Trevor Noah 18:15 I promise you I wasn't.

Eugene Khoza 18:16 You see? I wish you were.

Speaker 18:17 We heard it.

Eugene Khoza 18:18 No, I wish you was.

Speaker 18:19 I'm teasing you.

Trevor Noah 18:19 I, no, genuinely.

Speaker 18:21 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 18:21 But I mean, like, it just wasn't.

Speaker 18:21 There's a lot of tech words that are very sexual, though.

Trevor Noah 18:24 I've never even thought of them in that way.

Eugene Khoza 18:25 Give us, give us, give us-

Speaker 18:25 Put the floppy disk in. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 18:27 Wow. Okay. I would go with a stiffy, but-

Speaker 18:29 Stiffy, [laughs] right, yeah.

Trevor Noah 18:30 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 18:31 [laughs]

Speaker 18:31 Hard drive. Hard drive.

Trevor Noah 18:33 Hard drive, yes, yes.

Speaker 18:34 Hard drive. There's all kinds of stuff like that.

Trevor Noah 18:35 Yes, there are.

Speaker 18:35 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 18:35 So, so when I think of that world, right?

Speaker 18:37 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 18:38 There was a community that we would, we would form as nerds-

Speaker 18:41 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 18:41 ... where we, you know, the bullies beat us up, the, it, it, it was just not the cool space to be in.

Speaker 18:46 No.

Eugene Khoza 18:47 Mm.

Trevor Noah 18:47 Right? Then money comes into it.

Speaker 18:50 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 18:51 It becomes money. It becomes the force-

Speaker 18:54 Massive wealth

Trevor Noah 18:54 ... that changes the world.

Speaker 18:55 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 18:56 And then what we forget is this is a, like a, an entire generation of nerds who were bullied, who were always on the outside.

Speaker 19:04 That's part of it.

Eugene Khoza 19:05 No idea.

Trevor Noah 19:05 And now society has just told them that they're the coolest people, but they didn't sort of like-

Speaker 19:08 I don't think they've ever been the coolest pe- I think you're g- going a little-

Trevor Noah 19:11 No, but I'm saying society-

Speaker 19:11 I think they have money. They, society, it likes money.

Eugene Khoza 19:13 Yes.

Trevor Noah 19:14 Yes, but that's what I mean

Speaker 19:15 And money is what's attractive.

Trevor Noah 19:15 But that's what I mean.

Speaker 19:15 And it, without the money, they would remain uncool. They-

Trevor Noah 19:19 And the power, yeah

Speaker 19:19 ... mm-hmm, right.

Trevor Noah 19:20 Yeah.

Speaker 19:20 Exactly, and so, and even now, the way, like for example, that dinner they all had, it, it was embarrassing to them.

Eugene Khoza 19:26 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 19:26 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 19:26 You know?

Trevor Noah 19:26 Dinner at the White House.

Speaker 19:27 Yeah, it was em- I was like, "You're the richest people in the world and you have to suck this guy's," you know, whatever.

Trevor Noah 19:32 PCI schlocks.

Speaker 19:33 Yes, PCI. Um, it was really quite something to see. It's like, what's the point of being the richest people in the world-

Eugene Khoza 19:39 Right

Speaker 19:39 ... if this is what you have to do? Aren't you exempt from that? Uh, but they're not, and so they, I don't think they looked very cool. I thought they looked kind of like toadies, pathetic toadies, but that's just me.

Eugene Khoza 19:48 Don't you think maybe that's the side effect of being bullied as a young person and so-

Speaker 19:52 Not all of them were

Eugene Khoza 19:53 ... you just wanna be with a cool guy? Doesn't Trump-

Speaker 19:55 No, no

Eugene Khoza 19:55 ... look like a cool guy now?

Speaker 19:55 Mark Cuban's pretty cool. He's pretty cool. He's always been cool, I think, for example.

Trevor Noah 19:59 Who?

Speaker 19:59 Mark Cuban.

Trevor Noah 20:00 Mark Cuban. Was he like tech tech nerd in that way?

Speaker 20:02 He was, he's a tech nerd.

Trevor Noah 20:03 Yeah?

Speaker 20:03 Yeah. Yeah, he's just a different kind. You know, I think, uh, I mean, Mark Zuckerberg's kinda classic.

Trevor Noah 20:08 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 20:08 But actually, he was pretty popular in high school from what I understand. He was not bullied. And, um, it just depends. I think that, you know, we, it, it's 'cause it's formed by Hollywood, like Revenge of the Nerds-

Trevor Noah 20:19 Mm-hmm

Speaker 20:19 ... and those, and all those movies. And I think, you know, as tech became so important to all our lives, they, we began to recognize the importance of these characters in-

Trevor Noah 20:29 Hmm

Speaker 20:29 ... making us, understanding it, and inventing it. But back in the day, Edison was a hero. All those people, all those inventors, Franklin, they were all heroes. So I think we've always loved the inventor. I think that's not a, a new thing, but you're right, there were these images of, like Bill Gates, for example, sort of was the quintessential-

Trevor Noah 20:46 Yes

Speaker 20:47 ... nerd, right?

Trevor Noah 20:48 But that image is, you know, when you, when you talk about, I love that you say the word inventors, 'cause I, I watch every single, um, Apple event.

Speaker 20:59 Mm-hmm.

Eugene Khoza 21:00 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 21:00 They just had one, yeah.

Trevor Noah 21:01 Every WWDC-

Speaker 21:02 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 21:02 ... every new launch, every, I, you know, I'll watch the Pixel events, I'll watch the Google this, I watch the, I watch them all.

Speaker 21:08 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 21:09 And I don't know if I'm the only one, but I feel like over the past few years, I felt like it's less a club of inventors now.

Speaker 21:16 Oh, yeah. They're marketers.

Trevor Noah 21:17 Yeah, it feels more like-

Speaker 21:18 Mm

Trevor Noah 21:18 ... it's marketing and extraction. It doesn't feel, like when you say these things, Edison, I go, yeah, but look at what Edison was trying to do.

Eugene Khoza 21:25 Yes.

Speaker 21:25 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 21:26 You know? Graham Bell, look what Graham Bell was trying.

Speaker 21:28 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 21:28 Look what Tesla, the man was trying to do.

Speaker 21:31 Nikola, yeah.

Eugene Khoza 21:31 Mm.

Trevor Noah 21:31 None of these people were trying to think of a way for you to get your, like, your, your food 15 minutes faster than you were-

Speaker 21:39 Right

Trevor Noah 21:39 ... getting it before.

Speaker 21:40 Right.

Trevor Noah 21:40 That's not an invention in my opinion.

Speaker 21:42 Right.

Trevor Noah 21:42 You know?

Speaker 21:42 Well, it was interesting because at one point in s- i- in w- some of it was inventions, absolutely, and Steve Jobs sort of personified that. Although he wasn't a technical person, he was just, he was good at marketing and he was-

Trevor Noah 21:52 Mm-hmm

Speaker 21:52 ... good at visionare, being visionary of what it should be, and he had enough technical expertise to, to spur inventors to make what he, what his vision was. Um, but one at, at one point during the internet age, there, there was, it got so, I guess, fucked up that they were, someone came to me with like, um, digital dry cleaning service. I was like, this is not innovation. This is just-

Trevor Noah 22:15 What do you, what do you mean, a digital dry cleaning?

Speaker 22:16 You just order it on an app. That's all.

Trevor Noah 22:18 Oh.

Speaker 22:18 It was just an app, and it was still dry clean.

Trevor Noah 22:20 I mean.

Speaker 22:20 I'm like, are you gonna dry clean it digitally or, because-

Trevor Noah 22:22 Oh

Speaker 22:22 ... that would be cool. But one of the things that w- I used to, someone said to me at the time, and I agree with it, was at one point Silicon Valley became, um, really smart people doing really small things, and that's what it felt like.

Trevor Noah 22:36 Really smart people-

Speaker 22:36 And that's why Elon was so interesting.

Trevor Noah 22:38 Yeah.

Speaker 22:38 I have to say, and I spent a lot of time with him, was because, you know, he was talking about cars. He was talking-

Trevor Noah 22:44 Mm

Speaker 22:44 ... about space.

Trevor Noah 22:44 Mm.

Speaker 22:44 He was talking about Neuralink. He was talking about tunneling and Hyperloop. Whatever you think of those things, and whether they work or not, they were big ideas.

Trevor Noah 22:53 They were, yeah.

Speaker 22:53 And so smart people working on small ideas is really quite deflating in a lot of ways, and I think a

Speaker 23:00 lot of it is that, right? And Steve Jobs, for ex- w- was, was perfect at making you see the vision of where it was going because, you know, this phone, even though it's, they just released the skinny one. You s- I don't know if you saw it.

Trevor Noah 23:12 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 23:12 It's got that bump on it.

Trevor Noah 23:13 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 23:13 I saw it last night.

Trevor Noah 23:13 The mega bump.

Speaker 23:14 The bump is weird. I have a-

Trevor Noah 23:16 It's massive.

Speaker 23:16 Well.

Trevor Noah 23:17 It's also, it's also lopsided. That's my problem. Like, maybe-

Speaker 23:19 Yeah

Trevor Noah 23:19 ... maybe it's just a me thing.

Speaker 23:19 Steve wouldn't have liked that, I have to say.

Trevor Noah 23:20 Yeah, I go, like, if you're gonna make a phone that has a mega bump on the back-

Speaker 23:23 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 23:24 ... at least make-

Speaker 23:24 Make more bump

Trevor Noah 23:25 ... make more bump-

Speaker 23:26 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 23:26 ... because then when I put the phone down, it's flat. Now you have a phone that has-

Speaker 23:29 That wobbles

Trevor Noah 23:29 ... one corner, and then it wobbles, and it does a thing.

Eugene Khoza 23:31 Like an upside-down turtle.

Trevor Noah 23:32 Also, why am I resting my phone on the camera? I, I mean, maybe it's just me, but I'm like-

Speaker 23:36 Right. They have, they have a case for it, but then it's, now think again.

Trevor Noah 23:38 Yeah, but that's the point of the thin phone.

Speaker 23:40 Correct.

Trevor Noah 23:40 You see?

Speaker 23:40 I said this to this Apple executive, and they're like, "God, you're annoying, Steph."

Eugene Khoza 23:44 I, I had to s- sit through this lecture last night. [laughs]

Speaker 23:47 Oh, this, it is. So he's 100% right.

Trevor Noah 23:49 Well, the-

Speaker 23:49 The wobble

Trevor Noah 23:50 ... thing a-

Speaker 23:50 The wobble

Trevor Noah 23:50 ... and not just the wobble.

Speaker 23:52 Simple.

Trevor Noah 23:52 You make the thinnest phone.

Speaker 23:53 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 23:53 And then you put a fat battery on it, and you tell me, "Look, we can put a battery." But then if I've got to put a fat battery on a thin phone-

Speaker 23:59 That's right

Trevor Noah 23:59 ... you've got me back to the fat phone.

Speaker 24:00 Just give me back this. This is fine.

Eugene Khoza 24:01 Okay, but the gains of the fat back and the wobble, what are they?

Speaker 24:05 No, there's no gains.

Eugene Khoza 24:06 There's no gains.

Speaker 24:06 No gains.

Trevor Noah 24:06 So you don't get more battery?

Eugene Khoza 24:07 I have one camera instead of three.

Trevor Noah 24:09 Uh-huh.

Eugene Khoza 24:09 I have less battery life than I would have on the other one.

Speaker 24:12 You're at, you've-

Trevor Noah 24:12 Less battery with a bump on.

Eugene Khoza 24:13 It also, it also charges slower.

Speaker 24:15 Right.

Eugene Khoza 24:15 Right?

Trevor Noah 24:15 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 24:16 So it charges slow. I've got fewer speaker grills.

Speaker 24:18 Yes, that's right.

Trevor Noah 24:19 Come on

Speaker 24:20 I'm not loving this new one, I have to say. I, I, you know what I do love?

Trevor Noah 24:22 Hmm?

Speaker 24:22 The new AirPods. Now, that's pretty, that's, those things are cool.

Trevor Noah 24:25 Real-time translation?

Speaker 24:26 And someday... Well, AirPods should, if it was a business by itself, it would be a massive business, right?

Trevor Noah 24:31 It would be huge.

Speaker 24:31 And everyone made fun of them at the time they came out.

Trevor Noah 24:33 Yeah.

Speaker 24:33 If you remember, everyone was like, "You look ridiculous."

Trevor Noah 24:34 Yes.

Speaker 24:35 I'm like, "No, no, these are fantastic."

Trevor Noah 24:36 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 24:36 One of the things that s- to me will happen is someday we will have video cameras in them, or some sort of camera, and it will start ta- it will be your, instead of wearing glasses, like-

Trevor Noah 24:46 Mm

Speaker 24:46 ... uh, which some people are working on. F- uh, Face- Meta has some. Apple obviously did Vision Pro. But, um, these are where I think there's gonna be visuals, and then it's gonna talk to you. M- like in that movie Her.

Trevor Noah 24:58 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 24:59 It'll be talking to you

Speaker 25:00 and like, "Okay, up ahead is that person. Go to the left. Go here." And it will co- you'll constantly be inter- interacting with this, some sort of AI that will speak to you all day long and-

Trevor Noah 25:09 What, what's, what's the first tech that made you feel like you were living in the future? I, I always love asking this to, like, tech lovers.

Speaker 25:14 Oh, well, I'm a little older. The browser.

Trevor Noah 25:16 Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 25:16 The browser. The, the Mosaic, the Mosaic browser.

Trevor Noah 25:20 Really?

Speaker 25:20 Yes, because it, look, you had computers.

Trevor Noah 25:22 Some of the computer, that was, like, okay-ish.

Speaker 25:24 They, they hadn't really innovated. I mean, there was that ti- there were a couple, um, not Dells. What was the company? It's gone now. They had some small ones that were pretty cool.

Trevor Noah 25:32 Yeah?

Speaker 25:32 Right? Actually, that's not true. There was a, there was something called, um, General Magic, that created the General Magic magic device, and it was an iPhone before-

Trevor Noah 25:42 Hmm

Speaker 25:43 ... there was an iPhone.

Trevor Noah 25:43 Like, how long are we talking now?

Speaker 25:44 It was a lot of the people who worked on iPhone later. This was the eighties, essentially.

Trevor Noah 25:49 No way.

Speaker 25:50 Can't remember. And remember, Apple had Newton, if you remember, a long time ago.

Trevor Noah 25:52 Yeah, yeah, but I don't know about General Magic.

Speaker 25:54 Similar.

Trevor Noah 25:54 Yeah.

Speaker 25:54 General Magic was before that, and a lot of the people moved to the Newton project. They kept trying to do it,

Speaker 26:00 right? And the guy, Tony Fadell, that ended up being critical to the, um, the iPod, worked at General Magic. Like, they were always trying to figure out this sort of... And, and it actually goes back to Star Trek. That's what they were trying to make.

Trevor Noah 26:14 Hmm. That little device that the-

Speaker 26:15 That's right, the communicator

Trevor Noah 26:16 ... everyone... Yeah.

Speaker 26:16 The communicator, right? And so they were always trying to create that. And that was what that became. But General Magic had, and I have one, I have an original General Magic, was a block. It just was too big, and it had pictures of mail with- on a desk with a mail, with a mailbox and stuff like that. And you would, you'd have a stylus. And it was just t- it wasn't the right form factor-

Trevor Noah 26:37 Right

Speaker 26:37 ... but it was directionally the correct version. And if you look at that, you're like, you could see-

Trevor Noah 26:42 Evolution

Speaker 26:42 ... the straight line into this. Um, same thing with the glasses and stuff. I have one of the original Google Glasses, which, uh-

Trevor Noah 26:49 Those massive ones?

Speaker 26:50 No, they weren't big, actually. Google Glass was quite skinny, and then it had this weird little thing, this little square.

Trevor Noah 26:55 Oh, the little, um, what are they called?

Speaker 26:56 Yes. They were not massive.

Trevor Noah 26:57 Okay.

Speaker 26:57 Vision Pro is massive, is, is still big. All, and so are most of the Meta ones, um, Oculus and everything else. Google Glass was small and it sat on your, it sat on, like, it was very thin, and then had a little thing. It just wasn't very functional. It didn't do much, right? And it would sit there. And one of the problems with it, when, when it first was introduced, I went to, my ex-wife worked for Google, so I went to a Christmas party and they had just introduced Google Glass, but nobody had them but the Google people. And so everyone on the boat, she was in that division, had the Google Glass on.

Trevor Noah 27:29 [laughs]

Speaker 27:30 On a boat. It was such a great scene. And they wouldn't let me have it. They're like, "You can't have it." I'm like, "Thank you." Um, and they-

Trevor Noah 27:37 [laughs]

Speaker 27:37 And they're wearing it.

Trevor Noah 27:39 Missing you with that. [laughs]

Speaker 27:39 And they were trying to, to, to have it, to get it to go, you go, "Hello, Google," or you made it, you said something like, "Hello, Google" to it.

Trevor Noah 27:46 Yeah.

Speaker 27:46 And then it would act.

Trevor Noah 27:47 That, that was like the, yeah, like activating.

Speaker 27:47 Yes. That was, they have an action word, right?

Trevor Noah 27:50 Yeah.

Speaker 27:50 And they were all going, "Hello, Google," and they were turning on each other's Google Glass-

Trevor Noah 27:56 That is hilarious

Speaker 27:56 ... with the same thing.

Trevor Noah 27:57 Mm-hmm. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 27:58 And at, at Google parties, they used to have really good food, uh, all the time, and they'd have, like, a b- mountain of shrimp, like, really good shrimp, like, and I sat there eating shrimp like, "This is the worst thing."

Trevor Noah 28:07 Listening to, "Hello, Google. Hello, Google. Hello, Google."

Speaker 28:08 It was like, this is dystopia, but the shrimp is delicious.

Trevor Noah 28:11 [laughs]

Speaker 28:11 And, and they didn't realize nobody would interact like this or... And even Sergey, who wore them around all the time, he's one of the founders-

Trevor Noah 28:19 Mm

Speaker 28:19 ... Sergey Brin, he'd wear them everywhere. And they were so weird-looking and unattractive, and he was wearing them at a Vanity Fair Oscar party. And he came up and he goes, "Nobody's talking to me." And I'm like, "You're wearing those fucking Google Glass. No..." Celebrities don't want a picture at a party where they're smoking pot. Like, are you kidding me? Like, what are you... Take them off.

Trevor Noah 28:37 He's just walking around with a camera.

Speaker 28:38 Yeah. Yes, exactly. And he goes-

Trevor Noah 28:40 Super nook

Speaker 28:41 ... he goes, "Well, how, what should I say?" I said, "Say, 'I'm a billionaire.' It'll work with these people." [laughs] Like, "Take off the glasses, say, 'I'm a billionaire.'"

Trevor Noah 28:48 [laughs]

Speaker 28:48 But what happened with Google Glass, and I think eventually it'll get better, was, um, and I did say this to him and others at Google at the time, I said, "Congratulations, you've rendered..." Remember they went to Victoria's Secret and they all had them on?

Speaker 29:00 Do you remember that?

Trevor Noah 29:00 No, I don't remember this actually.

Speaker 29:01 So they had, to introduce it, they did a Victoria's Secret event, and all the supermodels had them on.

Trevor Noah 29:06 Oh, wow.

Speaker 29:07 And so I was there, and they go, "What do you think?" I go, "You've just made supermodels unfuckable. How? Good for you." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 29:14 [laughs]

Speaker 29:14 Well done, boys.

Trevor Noah 29:15 That is technology.

Speaker 29:16 It was. I was like, "Whoa."

Trevor Noah 29:17 Well done, guys.

Eugene Khoza 29:18 But I think everything she's explained is what I find wrong with technology.

Speaker 29:21 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 29:21 It almost feels like it makes you ignore the giant plate of shrimp in front of you.

Speaker 29:25 Right. Well, but the-

Trevor Noah 29:26 Yeah. You've never... What-

Speaker 29:27 Shrimp is delicious

Trevor Noah 29:28 ... like, what tech-

Eugene Khoza 29:29 I love shrimp.

Trevor Noah 29:29 No, but I, I like-

Speaker 29:30 I love shrimp

Trevor Noah 29:30 ... I like asking you-

Speaker 29:31 I love shrimp

Trevor Noah 29:31 ... you these things, 'cause you've always been my, one of my non-techy friends.

Eugene Khoza 29:34 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 29:35 So you'll ask me questions, and there's some tech that you'll adopt, and then there's some tech that you won't.

Eugene Khoza 29:38 Yes.

Trevor Noah 29:39 Like, w- which tech do you think is actually meaningful?

Eugene Khoza 29:42 [sighs]

Trevor Noah 29:43 Do you, do you, like, even care?

Eugene Khoza 29:45 I think after the radio we should have stopped.

Speaker 29:47 Oh, wow.

Trevor Noah 29:47 Jesus, Eugene.

Speaker 29:48 Wow. No.

Trevor Noah 29:49 Wow.

Eugene Khoza 29:49 We, we pushed it to television. I was like, "Okay, I'm-"

Trevor Noah 29:50 I told you this man's a Luddite

Eugene Khoza 29:51 ... I'm, I'm sold on television.

Speaker 29:52 I love the butter churn. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 29:53 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 29:54 [laughs]

Speaker 29:54 It's such a good... You know what I actually like? You might like this, the Aura.

Trevor Noah 29:58 Yeah.

Speaker 29:58 Although now they're working with the Defense Department, so fuck that. But, um- This ring is really in- it's the beginning of the idea of monitoring your health a little bit.

Eugene Khoza 30:07 Yes.

Trevor Noah 30:07 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 30:07 I find this to be really interesting-

Trevor Noah 30:09 Right

Speaker 30:09 ... and it gives you a- I used to call a lot of these things unwearables, because they were... It was like your steps. What does that, what does that tell you about your health?

Trevor Noah 30:16 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 30:16 Does it tell you anything?

Trevor Noah 30:17 Yeah.

Speaker 30:17 "Oh, I did 10,000 steps." Well, what does that mean? What should you do next?

Trevor Noah 30:21 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 30:21 What I always wanted was a device either on your wrist or here in your ear. You'd eat a donut and would go, "Ugh, that was a mistake." It would talk to you and say, "What you need to do is get up right now and walk 1,000 steps, and I'll tell you when you're done," or, "What you need to do now is go get a kefir immediately and drink that down."

Trevor Noah 30:38 Get those probiotics going.

Speaker 30:39 Get those probiotic going. But I would like something that has actionable information, and this one for, especially for sleep-

Trevor Noah 30:45 Mm-hmm

Speaker 30:45 ... really does, gives you data that you can actually pay attention to, and they... You have to start to interpret it, but that's the kind of thing you're hoping for.

Eugene Khoza 30:53 Wait, do-

Speaker 30:54 That would be useful. This is an Oura ring.

Eugene Khoza 30:55 So it, it's good for you, and it makes you look committed.

Speaker 30:57 Yes, it does. Yeah. It's kind of too big, though, 'cause only

Speaker 31:00 guy- guys made this, let me just say. It ha- it needs to be this big because of all the sensors in it.

Trevor Noah 31:04 You've got all the sensors on the inside.

Speaker 31:05 But eventually it won't.

Eugene Khoza 31:06 Then where's space for your wedding ring?

Speaker 31:08 I, I never... I'm, I know I'm married. I don't wear it. Don't say anything. Shh. I don't like rings. I don't like rings. They make me feel like I'm captive. [laughs] Just-

Trevor Noah 31:17 Love the-

Speaker 31:17 I do this with the rings

Trevor Noah 31:18 ... like on the hand?

Speaker 31:19 Yes.

Eugene Khoza 31:19 The ring itself-

Trevor Noah 31:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Eugene Khoza 31:19 ... on your finger makes you feel like-

Speaker 31:21 I don't like j- I don't like rings. I don't like rings.

Trevor Noah 31:23 Some, some people, uh, like jewelry in general, it- it's hard to-

Eugene Khoza 31:26 On their fingers.

Speaker 31:27 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 31:27 No, just even, even like around your n-

Speaker 31:28 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 31:28 Yeah

Trevor Noah 31:28 ... around your neck as well-

Speaker 31:30 I don't like anything

Trevor Noah 31:30 ... sometimes you-

Speaker 31:30 No, I don't.

Trevor Noah 31:31 You've never had a conversation-

Speaker 31:32 My wife would like me-

Trevor Noah 31:34 ... with your wife about it?

Speaker 31:34 She would like me to wear it more, and I try. I try my best.

Trevor Noah 31:36 How many times has this topic come up? Because-

Speaker 31:38 Oh, many times. Thank you for bringing it up, and now she'll listen to this, and we'll have another one.

Trevor Noah 31:41 [laughs]

Speaker 31:41 Let me just say something. Y- let me give you a little tip for reporting. Ask a man how his wife is sometime. I always start interviews with some weird-

Trevor Noah 31:50 Mm-hmm

Speaker 31:50 ... personal question.

Trevor Noah 31:51 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 31:51 Ask a man how their wife is. Many men do this.

Trevor Noah 31:56 No.

Speaker 31:56 They start-

Eugene Khoza 31:57 They fidget with the ring?

Speaker 31:58 They, they fidget and take it off. Like, they don't... They... It's really interesting. Just try it. Let's see.

Trevor Noah 32:02 It's, it's like it's burning them from-

Speaker 32:03 Burning them

Trevor Noah 32:04 ... Lord of the Rings or something

Speaker 32:04 ... burning their finger-

Trevor Noah 32:05 It's like a weird-

Speaker 32:05 And they, and they're always like, "Great. Great. Great."

Trevor Noah 32:08 Huh.

Speaker 32:08 "Everything's great." And I'm like, "Okay. Now I know."

Trevor Noah 32:09 I wonder if you, I wonder if you could get all the data-

Speaker 32:12 Hmm

Trevor Noah 32:12 ... and see if there's any correlation between who took the ring off-

Speaker 32:16 Yes

Trevor Noah 32:16 ... and how their relationship turned out.

Speaker 32:17 Ends up, right. Exactly.

Trevor Noah 32:18 'Cause maybe that's like a, a tell that someone's giving you.

Speaker 32:20 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 32:20 It's like, "How's your relationship?"

Speaker 32:21 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 32:21 And if they pull the ring off and then answer you-

Speaker 32:23 Yeah

Trevor Noah 32:23 ... and then put it back on.

Speaker 32:24 Yep. You-

Eugene Khoza 32:24 And maybe you can tell us-

Speaker 32:25 You have to be-

Eugene Khoza 32:25 ... 'cause you've never had it on.

Trevor Noah 32:26 It's because they know when you put it on, like-

Speaker 32:27 Well, yeah. Well, that's... I, I'm not subject to that.

Trevor Noah 32:29 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 32:29 [laughs]

Speaker 32:29 Um, I'm only, I'm only wearing it 'cause I'm traveling. I usually take it off in the morning, but I don't want to lose it.

Eugene Khoza 32:33 So where do you keep the one that, uh, that was blessed-

Speaker 32:37 Oh

Eugene Khoza 32:37 ... for this union? The-

Speaker 32:38 Blessed, yes, 'cause the Catholic Church loves a gay marriage. Um-

Trevor Noah 32:40 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 32:41 [laughs]

Speaker 32:41 Uh, uh, it's in a box. It's in a nice pretty box. It's a pretty box.

Trevor Noah 32:47 And she was from-

Speaker 32:47 Probably from South Africa. What-

Trevor Noah 32:50 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 32:50 [laughs]

Speaker 32:51 From your country. From your country. [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 32:54 Wait, I'm, I'm, I'm fascinated by this because earlier on I was telling you that I'm actually entertaining the concept-

Speaker 32:59 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 32:59 ... of getting married and-

Speaker 33:00 Okay. I, I, I have-

Trevor Noah 33:01 What?

Speaker 33:03 I know. He just said that to me.

Trevor Noah 33:04 You just-

Speaker 33:05 He just told me this.

Trevor Noah 33:05 Wow.

Eugene Khoza 33:05 You see-

Speaker 33:06 You didn't know? Sorry.

Eugene Khoza 33:07 You remember when we were together-

Speaker 33:08 We're very close

Eugene Khoza 33:08 ... and you said maybe ask your friends.

Speaker 33:09 Thank you, Kara. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 33:10 Wow.

Eugene Khoza 33:10 What did I say about-

Trevor Noah 33:11 No.

Speaker 33:11 He wants to get married.

Trevor Noah 33:12 No, no, no, no, no. The one thing-

Eugene Khoza 33:13 No, I'm saying about ask the friends part

Trevor Noah 33:14 ... the, the, okay, let me explain the-

Speaker 33:15 Oh, I said have you fix him up.

Trevor Noah 33:16 Let me explain what, where the what came from.

Eugene Khoza 33:18 And then-

Speaker 33:19 And, and-

Trevor Noah 33:19 The what came from-

Speaker 33:20 Yeah

Trevor Noah 33:20 ... me finding out on a podcast that we are sharing here from Kara Swisher-

Speaker 33:26 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 33:26 Yes

Trevor Noah 33:26 ... that you are considering getting married.

Speaker 33:29 Well, I'm a famous reporter, so that's clear what happened.

Trevor Noah 33:32 This is too shame. This is true.

Eugene Khoza 33:32 Also, I found out that you were a weird nerd who was brushing up against nothing cool your whole life.

Trevor Noah 33:36 You knew this about me.

Eugene Khoza 33:37 You were okay then.

Trevor Noah 33:38 You've always known this about me.

Speaker 33:39 Mm-hmm.

Eugene Khoza 33:39 I, Trevor, I didn't.

Speaker 33:40 He didn't know the shame that you had.

Eugene Khoza 33:42 I didn't know the shame that you carried.

Trevor Noah 33:42 I had no shame.

Eugene Khoza 33:43 Yes. I didn't-

Trevor Noah 33:43 There was no shame

Speaker 33:44 ... yeah, shame

Trevor Noah 33:44 I was just a nerd enjoying myself.

Eugene Khoza 33:45 You had 100% shame.

Speaker 33:46 He wished he could date girls.

Trevor Noah 33:47 Let me tell, let me tell you something.

Eugene Khoza 33:48 And then you listen to it all night.

Trevor Noah 33:48 Let me tell you how much fun it was. Let me tell you something.

Speaker 33:50 Hmm?

Trevor Noah 33:50 Few things were more fun. Friday nights-

Speaker 33:53 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 33:54 ... I would be in my room-

Speaker 33:55 Mm

Trevor Noah 33:55 ... with my PC-

Speaker 33:56 It's getting better by the second. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 33:57 With my PC. I'd have my PC.

Speaker 34:00 Oh, wow.

Trevor Noah 34:00 And we had this deal in South Africa at the time-

Speaker 34:03 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 34:03 ... where the, the, the, the, the service provider-

Speaker 34:06 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 34:06 ... would give you internet that, like, the, the cost of dialing up-

Speaker 34:11 Was cheaper

Trevor Noah 34:11 ... wouldn't go beyond a certain price-

Speaker 34:12 Mm-hmm

Eugene Khoza 34:13 Mm

Trevor Noah 34:13 ... from 7:00 PM on Friday night-

Speaker 34:15 Yeah

Trevor Noah 34:15 ... until 7:00 AM-

Speaker 34:16 Down times

Trevor Noah 34:16 ... on Monday.

Speaker 34:16 Down times, yeah.

Trevor Noah 34:17 Right?

Speaker 34:18 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 34:18 And the, so the maximum price was something like if, uh, $1 essentially-

Speaker 34:23 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 34:23 ... which was... Otherwise you could pay, like, $1,000-

Speaker 34:25 Yes, you could

Trevor Noah 34:25 ... if you weren't careful.

Speaker 34:25 It used to be very expensive.

Trevor Noah 34:26 Right? So I would wait. Friday night would come, and I'd be sitting there with my, with my PC.

Speaker 34:31 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 34:31 I had my whole rig.

Speaker 34:32 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 34:33 I'd plugged in car speakers that I would find from wrecked cars.

Speaker 34:37 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 34:38 And I would, I created my own surround sound in my room.

Speaker 34:41 Wow. Wow.

Trevor Noah 34:41 Right? So connected them all, had my Winamp going.

Speaker 34:44 Mm-hmm. Winamp, of course.

Trevor Noah 34:45 I'd, I'd wait for 7:00 PM.

Speaker 34:46 It was an AOL product.

Trevor Noah 34:46 I'd wait for 7:00 PM.

Speaker 34:48 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 34:48 And then 7:00 PM would come, click that modem, get going. [imitates modem starting]

Speaker 34:53 Nice, nice. Well done.

Trevor Noah 34:54 I'd, I would get in, and then my mom taught me how to make a, um, rum and raisin whiskey concoction.

Speaker 35:03 Oh, wow.

Eugene Khoza 35:03 Okay.

Trevor Noah 35:04 So I'd sit at home with a five-liter... I don't know what that is, a gallon maybe. I don't know how to convert these things, but of, of ice cream-

Speaker 35:11 Uh-huh

Trevor Noah 35:12 ... mixed with whiskey.

Speaker 35:13 Oh, okay.

Trevor Noah 35:14 And then I would dip my cup in, and I would sip it, and then I would chat to strangers from all over the world.

Speaker 35:19 Wow. Good times.

Eugene Khoza 35:19 That was a normal Friday night for you.

Speaker 35:21 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 35:21 The best Friday nights.

Eugene Khoza 35:22 This is the person that you wanted me to ask.

Speaker 35:23 Wow.

Trevor Noah 35:23 Do you see any shame?

Eugene Khoza 35:25 100%.

Speaker 35:26 No. No.

Trevor Noah 35:26 What?

Speaker 35:27 We're ashamed for you.

Eugene Khoza 35:28 [laughs] We're ashamed of you.

Speaker 35:32 Of you. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 35:32 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 35:32 But I was really asking Kara about this. I was like, "I really, I really, really wanna take that step," but my question to her was, is it better-

Speaker 35:40 Mm-hmm

Eugene Khoza 35:41 ... to do it with someone that you've known for a long time or get fixed up?

Speaker 35:44 No, I got fixed up on a blind date, my, my wife and I were fixed up.

Trevor Noah 35:47 Who fixed you up?

Speaker 35:48 Lydia Polgreen and her wife Candy, uh, Fite.

Trevor Noah 35:51 What did they, what did they see in you and her that they were like-

Speaker 35:54 So I had broken up with someone, and I had, I had not ever been single my entire life. Y- I went out with men,

Speaker 36:00 too, many, many year- when I was in high school and stuff, and I just hadn't been alone, like, by myself. And I said, "I'm gonna be alone for a year." I did one of those things.

Trevor Noah 36:08 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 36:08 Hmm.

Speaker 36:08 And sh- Candy called me, and she texted me and said, "Uh, can I fix you up with someone? I have two people." I have two different ... She was kind of a matchmaker personality, and she said, "I'll, I'll set..." A- and I was, I actually was going to a funeral, and I was like, "Well, how about after the funeral [laughs] we'll get together?"

Trevor Noah 36:25 Very practical.

Speaker 36:25 Right, exactly.

Trevor Noah 36:26 Just finishes this off.

Speaker 36:26 I was wearing all black.

Trevor Noah 36:27 [laughs]

Speaker 36:27 I think I was wearing this very-

Trevor Noah 36:28 Maybe I might-

Speaker 36:29 Yeah

Trevor Noah 36:29 ... I might encounter another death.

Speaker 36:31 I know, exactly. And, um, and I said, "Okay, but I'm not going out with anyone for a year. I'm not. I'm gonna..." Like, I literally just broken up.

Trevor Noah 36:38 How many months were you in now?

Speaker 36:40 A month, a month. [laughs] A month.

Trevor Noah 36:42 One month in. Still strong.

Speaker 36:43 A month and a half maybe. Um, and, uh, and I, I said, "Okay, I'll go. Uh, I'll start with one." And we, we ... They had a little dinner party, uh, kind of thing, um, in Brooklyn, and I went, and I think we got married. We had a baby a year later. It just-

Trevor Noah 37:00 Wow.

Speaker 37:00 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 37:00 You never got to number two?

Speaker 37:01 Never got ... We did meet. I met number two later. Very nice. It was, but a very excellent choice, too.

Trevor Noah 37:06 Wow. So was there a moment when you met number two where you were like, "This could have been," or was it no, like, you know?

Speaker 37:10 No, I picked the right ... I got the right one. She was, she-

Trevor Noah 37:12 Hm

Speaker 37:12 ... she picked the right one, actually.

Trevor Noah 37:14 So you don't ... Just, so-

Speaker 37:14 She picked the right one.

Trevor Noah 37:15 Oh, 'cause that was the first option that she had for you.

Speaker 37:17 She, that she picked.

Trevor Noah 37:17 Oh, she picked.

Speaker 37:18 And I-

Trevor Noah 37:18 Number two was the backup plan.

Speaker 37:19 Yes, and I really, really trusted her, and I think you should take advice from your friends. If they really care about you, they think about it.

Trevor Noah 37:25 I got you, boo.

Speaker 37:26 Okay, well, you trust-

Trevor Noah 37:26 So you want to drink rum and raisin? I got, used to drink-

Speaker 37:29 Rum and-

Trevor Noah 37:29 ... rum and raisin.

Speaker 37:30 Okay.

Trevor Noah 37:30 Used to.

Speaker 37:30 Yeah. Do you have someone for him?

Trevor Noah 37:31 Used to.

Speaker 37:32 Do you?

Trevor Noah 37:32 I can, I can figure it out.

Eugene Khoza 37:33 No ways.

Trevor Noah 37:34 I got you.

Eugene Khoza 37:35 No ways.

Trevor Noah 37:35 I got you.

Eugene Khoza 37:35 The only way-

Trevor Noah 37:36 I got you

Speaker 37:37 I'm coming to the wedding

Eugene Khoza 37:37 ... I only trust Trevor to pick the menu.

Speaker 37:39 Oh, okay. All right. He might.

Eugene Khoza 37:40 I would never-

Speaker 37:41 You never know

Eugene Khoza 37:41 ... I would ne-

Speaker 37:42 But he has your best interest at heart.

Trevor Noah 37:43 I've got his ... Thank you, Kara.

Speaker 37:44 All right. He does.

Trevor Noah 37:44 I have his fully, full best interest at-

Speaker 37:46 He, he does

Trevor Noah 37:46 ... in fact, this is-

Eugene Khoza 37:47 This is the guy who put me through talking about the hump on the iPhone-

Speaker 37:49 Oh, yeah

Eugene Khoza 37:49 ... for hours and hours.

Speaker 37:50 But you know what? He's right about that. That's very upsetting.

Trevor Noah 37:53 That's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 37:54 It's re- ... I was like, "These people, this, the mo- ... It's a tr- multi-trillion dollar company."

Trevor Noah 37:57 Yes.

Speaker 37:58 "They didn't notice the ... " I, I said that to the executive.

Trevor Noah 38:00 So you know what my theory is?

Speaker 38:01 There was a pretty big executive at this morning show premiere.

Trevor Noah 38:03 Yeah.

Speaker 38:03 And he goes, "What do you think?" I'm like, "What's with the bump?" And he goes, "Fuck you." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 38:09 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 38:10 [laughs]

Speaker 38:10 I was like, "What? Uh, you, you didn't notice the bump? All your multi-billion dollar-"

Trevor Noah 38:14 Can I tell you my theory?

Speaker 38:15 What? What is your theory?

Trevor Noah 38:16 Gen- ... My genuine theory.

Speaker 38:17 What's your theory?

Trevor Noah 38:17 And I could be wrong on this.

Eugene Khoza 38:18 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 38:19 I feel like the technology that's being made today, not all of it-

Speaker 38:22 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 38:22 ... but a lot of it, is being made by people who are not using it, using it. So they're sort of, like, making theoretically, but they're not using-

Speaker 38:29 No, no. I think they had Samsung envy. You know, 'cause a lot, some of these-

Trevor Noah 38:32 For the thin phone?

Speaker 38:33 The thin phone.

Trevor Noah 38:33 No, but-

Speaker 38:33 I think they wanted a thin phone

Trevor Noah 38:34 ... Kara, there's no way someone was using that and was like, "This is right."

Speaker 38:37 Well, it was interesting, 'cause I, when I saw it, I thought, "Steve Jobs would vomit on this phone." Like, he would not like it. He, he, he would not have let it go like that. No way. No way. One of the things that was really interesting many years ago when I, you know, I was partners with Walt Mossberg for years on our conference, our big code conference, where we had Steve Jobs and Bill Gates together and stuff like that. And we had Zuckerberg and Elon and everyone else. But, um, Walt brought him the Zune. Remember the Zune from Microsoft?

Trevor Noah 39:02 Oh, yeah, yeah. Right.

Speaker 39:03 It was brown.

Trevor Noah 39:04 Yep.

Speaker 39:04 It was like, who picked brown poop color for-

Trevor Noah 39:06 But it was a, it was a pretty good device.

Speaker 39:07 It was a good device.

Trevor Noah 39:08 It was a good device.

Speaker 39:09 But it looked-

Trevor Noah 39:09 Didn't look good at all.

Speaker 39:10 It didn't look good.

Trevor Noah 39:11 It looked terrible.

Speaker 39:11 The color, and it was shaped wrong. It had a wrong sh- the, the iPod had the golden, uh, means, measurements.

Trevor Noah 39:18 The ratio, right.

Speaker 39:19 The ratio.

Trevor Noah 39:19 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 39:20 Which was why you found it attractive, and you don't know why you did, but it was very nice to hold, and it's because, uh, Jobs used the golden means-

Trevor Noah 39:28 Oh

Speaker 39:28 ... ratio, which is interesting. Um, uh, but the Zune was square. Remember? It was, it was hard to hold. It was-

Trevor Noah 39:35 It was just an ugly device.

Speaker 39:35 It was an ugly device.

Trevor Noah 39:36 Yeah.

Speaker 39:36 So Walt handed Jobs the ... He goes, "Let me see it." And he's like, "I'm not supposed to show it to anyone." Jobs was like, "Let me see the fucking thing." 'Cause he w- wasn't able to get it, right?

Trevor Noah 39:45 Yeah.

Speaker 39:46 And so he put it in Jobs' hands, and Jobs went like this. Like this. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 39:50 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 39:50 [laughs]

Speaker 39:51 'Cause he was such a drama queen.

Trevor Noah 39:52 [laughs]

Speaker 39:52 But I think it actually repelled him. He was like, "Why do they make so many ugly things?" Like, "Why can't they make ... " Because a lot of them, including ... A- a- Apple's the only one that really did do things that were beautiful, were actually beautiful and beautiful to hold. And even Google-

Trevor Noah 40:08 Hm

Speaker 40:08 ... when they were trying to make, when they made their phone, um ... And I, my, my ex-wife was a Google executive, too, and they ha- remember they had the Stacks? You had to go-

Trevor Noah 40:18 Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 40:19 And I was on her ... I was using my phone, but she had to use the Android, and I, I was looking for an address, and I go, "Where is she?" She goes, "Well, it's in the Stacks." I'm like, "What the fuck is the Stacks?"

Trevor Noah 40:28 Hm.

Speaker 40:28 And she's like, "The Stacks, the Stacks." And she's a tech person. She goes, "Obviously, the Stacks." I was like, "Nobody normal knows what a Stack is." And with iPhone, you could pick it, a child could pick it up and use it.

Trevor Noah 40:38 Yeah. It, it's the most intuitive device ever created.

Speaker 40:40 It's intuitive-

Trevor Noah 40:41 Yeah

Speaker 40:41 ... 'cause it's simple.

Trevor Noah 40:41 Yeah.

Speaker 40:41 And one thing Steve Jobs used to say, uh, he said it to me at least, was, "It's really, um, it's very complex to make things simple."

Trevor Noah 40:50 Hm.

Speaker 40:50 "But it's very simple to make things complex." Like, and so a lot of people in Silicon Valley make things complex on purpose 'cause it, it's easy for them, but not, they're not thinking like a consumer would use it. And I think the-

Eugene Khoza 41:02 This conversation proves one thing to me.

Speaker 41:04 What? What? What?

Eugene Khoza 41:05 That I should never let him choose anything for me.

Speaker 41:08 [laughs] You should-

Trevor Noah 41:09 For me?

Speaker 41:09 Yes.

Eugene Khoza 41:10 Because y- Kara was busy giving me advice about how option one-

Speaker 41:13 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 41:13 ... became so great.

Speaker 41:14 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 41:14 And you lured her in with your Stacks.

Speaker 41:17 Stacks. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 41:17 No.

Eugene Khoza 41:17 And your rum and raisin breath.

Trevor Noah 41:19 Wait, so-

Eugene Khoza 41:19 But-

Trevor Noah 41:20 Wait. Y- you know what? Actually, no. I think-

Speaker 41:22 Yeah, I'm g- well, let's help him. Let's help him.

Trevor Noah 41:23 No, but I, I ... Can I tell you something?

Eugene Khoza 41:24 Yes.

Trevor Noah 41:24 That, that actually-

Eugene Khoza 41:25 Sure

Trevor Noah 41:26 ... we, we're getting to, which is, which is, which is-

Eugene Khoza 41:27 Tell me

Trevor Noah 41:27 ... important.

Eugene Khoza 41:28 Okay.

Trevor Noah 41:29 That's, that's why I like this triumvirate-

Eugene Khoza 41:30 Okay. Tell me

Trevor Noah 41:30 ... that we've created here.

Speaker 41:31 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 41:32 I think Kara's giving us an insight into the tech industry-

Eugene Khoza 41:35 Right

Trevor Noah 41:36 ... that to me sounds like there are, th- th- there are too many, like, let's just say cables that have-

Eugene Khoza 41:42 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 41:42 ... that have been disconnected from people.

Speaker 41:44 Mm-hmm.

Eugene Khoza 41:44 Right.

Trevor Noah 41:45 Because what you just said is what I think is missing in dating apps and whatever.

Speaker 41:49 Mm-hmm.

Eugene Khoza 41:50 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 41:50 I think a lot of dating apps have a very simplistic idea of how dating and how relationships-

Speaker 41:55 Yep

Trevor Noah 41:56 ... are formed.

Speaker 41:56 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 41:56 A person finds another person attractive. They link up. Therefore-

Speaker 41:59 Fair enough

Trevor Noah 42:00 ... it works

Speaker 42:00 ... is what you're talking about. Right.

Trevor Noah 42:01 But it's like, no, no, no, no, no. If you think of what a working relationship is, everyone who's told me a story about being set up.

Speaker 42:09 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 42:09 Um, obviously some people have bad stories. But when you even think of, um, matchmakers in India.

Speaker 42:14 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 42:14 A great matchmaker in India will tell you, "My job is not to m- just set you up. My job is to understand you- And then understand you-

Speaker 42:23 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 42:23 ... and figure out why you would or wouldn't-

Speaker 42:25 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 42:25 ... work beyond what you may know or not know about yourself.

Speaker 42:28 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 42:28 And whenever I hear people talk about someone setting them up, like a friend of theirs or somebody-

Speaker 42:32 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 42:33 ... they go m- it's, you, you said the line, and I, I promise you everyone says it. They go, "They were like a matchmaker type."

Speaker 42:39 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 42:39 There's a skill that they possess.

Speaker 42:40 Right, correct.

Trevor Noah 42:41 That-

Speaker 42:41 Not everybody has it

Trevor Noah 42:42 ... exactly, that enables them to see why you connect with you. But these apps don't necessarily do that.

Speaker 42:47 No, AI can do that eventually. Eventually there will be-

Trevor Noah 42:49 Yeah, but now they don't

Speaker 42:50 ... uh, some, some of the algorithms do have things that are helpful. I mean, it's, we're on our way to that, and I think-

Trevor Noah 42:56 Com- on the way, yes

Speaker 42:57 ... 'cause it will read your facial expressions.

Trevor Noah 42:59 Yes, on the way.

Speaker 42:59 You know, they're doing job interviews like that. They can, they can watch the facial expressions and like-

Trevor Noah 43:03 We don't know what they mean mean yet.

Speaker 43:05 Well, actually, uh, you know, interestingly, I just, I'm finishing up a documentary about future health, right?

Trevor Noah 43:10 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Speaker 43:10 Right now, 'cause it's my next book, talking about there's amazing things happening around tech and health and figuring out things. And one of the ones is this company in Boston, um, and it's from Mass, uh, Brigham Young, which is a big hospital there. It's doing testing there, and it's showing incredible promise, called Face Age. And you look at, uh, doctors when there's a cancer patient, looks at, looks at a cancer patient and decides whether they need more aggressive or less aggressive treatment.

Trevor Noah 43:36 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 43:36 And they actually, among the many things they look at is the face. They're like, do they look too much? And a lot of doctors are doing it, uh, without actual science. They're just like, "I have a feeling this person could take it more."

Trevor Noah 43:47 No way. Wow.

Speaker 43:47 And it's, and they use age. It's, they don't even realize they're doing it. They're, they're, they're assessing people. They're, you know, they, they use the word assessment.

Trevor Noah 43:54 At a glance even.

Speaker 43:54 But they just look-

Trevor Noah 43:55 Yeah

Speaker 43:55 ... well, not at a glance. They're taking, they're, they're bringing lots of data in to figure it out. But there's this

Speaker 44:00 thing called Face Age, and the AI looks at a face, and it will, you will have a chronological age and a biological age.

Trevor Noah 44:06 Okay, mm-hmm.

Speaker 44:07 Your biological age could be a lot lower than your chronological age.

Trevor Noah 44:11 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 44:11 And that means you should have s- more aggressive cancer treatment.

Trevor Noah 44:16 'Cause you can take it.

Speaker 44:16 'Cause you can take it, but doctors don't always see it, 'cause they're looking at wrinkles, they're looking at all kinds of things-

Trevor Noah 44:21 Mm-hmm

Speaker 44:22 ... or maybe someone's a little creakier. But, but this AI has been accurate in telling doctors which patients can take treatment more aggressively. And this one woman I mentioned, 82 years old, she looked older. She was wearing a wig. She looked older. She, she was 82. Her face age was 72, and they gave her more aggressive treatment. She's cancer-free now. It's incredible. Like, these da- th- these AI will be able to, to have a lot of data that we don't quite understand the decision-making. It'll be part of a tool that doctors use. It can't be the decision-maker, but it'll be a tool that doctors use going forward. So someone will be, AI will be able to fix you up eventually. Not today. No, I'm not kidding. Here's the thing. Let me ask you a question. What do you want? What are, what are you looking for? Make a list.

Trevor Noah 45:07 Well-

Speaker 45:07 That's what I did

Trevor Noah 45:08 ... Kara, you know what I love about you? You, you care.

Speaker 45:12 I care, I care.

Trevor Noah 45:12 No one, no one has ever asked me this.

Speaker 45:14 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 45:15 I mean-

Speaker 45:15 Wow

Trevor Noah 45:15 ... some people wear cardigans and came to you, my friend.

Speaker 45:18 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 45:18 And they've-

Speaker 45:18 Oh, wow. Wow.

Trevor Noah 45:19 Wow.

Speaker 45:19 This is, I'm having a bad-

Trevor Noah 45:21 And it-

Speaker 45:21 I'm having-

Trevor Noah 45:21 This is insane

Speaker 45:22 ... this is awkward.

Trevor Noah 45:22 Look-

Speaker 45:23 This is awkward

Trevor Noah 45:23 ... care. And what was, what was on your list, though?

Speaker 45:25 What do, what's on your list?

Trevor Noah 45:26 What, my list? What was on your list?

Speaker 45:27 Uh, likes children, 'cause I had two kids.

Trevor Noah 45:29 Okay, tick.

Speaker 45:29 Um, and, um-

Trevor Noah 45:31 Woman

Speaker 45:32 ... uh, well, yes, yes, that was-

Trevor Noah 45:34 Me too.

Speaker 45:34 That, that, yeah, okay, good.

Trevor Noah 45:35 [laughs]

Speaker 45:35 Excellent. We have the same list now. Um, uh, flexible, like, and a-

Trevor Noah 45:40 As in dexterity?

Speaker 45:43 Well, physically is great, but no.

Trevor Noah 45:44 [laughs]

Speaker 45:45 No, um, no. More like flexible, isn't-

Trevor Noah 45:47 Okay, okay

Speaker 45:47 ... isn't like rigid as a person.

Trevor Noah 45:49 Okay.

Speaker 45:50 Rigid as a person.

Trevor Noah 45:50 Tick.

Speaker 45:51 Uh, sense of humor.

Trevor Noah 45:52 Tick.

Speaker 45:52 Uh, okay with change. I'm a very change-oriented person. Like, I j- I just sat there and wrote it down, and like-

Trevor Noah 45:59 Change as in, like, you change the way you think, the way you dress?

Speaker 46:03 Not uncomfortable with change.

Trevor Noah 46:04 Location?

Speaker 46:05 Like, whatever. Just things happen-

Trevor Noah 46:07 Okay

Speaker 46:07 ... right? Um-

Trevor Noah 46:08 Spontaneity as well

Speaker 46:08 ... I had a whole list. I, I'd have to find it, but it was-

Trevor Noah 46:10 Please, feel free.

Speaker 46:11 I will send it to you.

Trevor Noah 46:12 I'm here for it.

Speaker 46:12 But you have to make a list of what's most important to you.

Trevor Noah 46:14 I like-

Speaker 46:14 And stack rank it

Trevor Noah 46:15 ... I like your recommendations.

Speaker 46:16 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 46:17 Just take care of it.

Speaker 46:17 Stack rank it. Stack rank it, and then-

Trevor Noah 46:19 Are we going to stack now?

Speaker 46:20 And then, no. Well, go ahead.

Trevor Noah 46:21 Back to stacks.

Speaker 46:21 Go ahead. Go ahead. Stack-

Trevor Noah 46:22 Back to stacks.

Speaker 46:22 Okay, go ahead. What's the most important?

Trevor Noah 46:24 Spontaneity.

Speaker 46:25 Okay, good. Should that be at the top? And you can say looks too. You can be like, "I like a good-looking lady."

Trevor Noah 46:30 A good-looking lady.

Speaker 46:31 Like, whatever. Well, to you, a good-looking lady.

Trevor Noah 46:33 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 46:34 You. Spon- what's number one?

Trevor Noah 46:36 Privacy.

Speaker 46:38 Oh, that's number one?

Trevor Noah 46:39 Yes.

Speaker 46:40 Interesting.

Trevor Noah 46:40 Yes. Have you heard of the new iPhone?

Speaker 46:42 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 46:44 [laughs] But more than anything, family-orientated.

Speaker 46:47 Okay. There you go.

Trevor Noah 46:49 Yeah.

Speaker 46:49 So look for that, and don't, and, and if they're not, they don't, if it's not on the list, you gotta cut it loose.

Trevor Noah 46:56 [upbeat music] We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break. [upbeat music] Is it possible sometimes that you would not want to date someone 'cause you wouldn't think they fit with your friendship circle?

Speaker 47:16 Yes, that happens.

Trevor Noah 47:16 And if that happens, who, who goes? Do you dump the person or you don't even-

Speaker 47:19 Oh, I, I think your friendship circle-

Trevor Noah 47:20 Or do you dump the friend?

Speaker 47:20 ... is more important. I think they have to be able to-

Trevor Noah 47:22 Yes, I agree

Speaker 47:23 ... I think they are.

Trevor Noah 47:24 Your friends are way more important than Eugene.

Speaker 47:25 Actually, study after study shows you live longer if you have a friendship circle.

Trevor Noah 47:28 That is very true, Eugene. If you keep your friends close-

Speaker 47:31 Train plasticity

Trevor Noah 47:31 ... you will live longer.

Speaker 47:33 Train plasticity.

Trevor Noah 47:33 Wait, wait, wait. So was it more helpful for you that she was recommended by a friend?

Speaker 47:37 Yeah, I think so.

Trevor Noah 47:38 And then you got to keep her and the friendships.

Speaker 47:40 Yeah, you don't want your friends at cross-purposes. That sucks. Nobody likes it. Look, uh, uh, it was, I had the funny, bad boyfriends are always the worst thing for a group of friends, if a friend has a bad boyfriend.

Trevor Noah 47:51 Yeah.

Speaker 47:51 You're like, "Ugh, the bad boyfriend."

Trevor Noah 47:53 [laughs]

Speaker 47:53 And you know who that is, right?

Trevor Noah 47:55 It is always funny when someone has a partner that everyone else is like-

Speaker 47:59 Ugh

Trevor Noah 47:59 ... "Ah, are they coming with them?"

Speaker 48:00 Yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 48:01 Ugh.

Speaker 48:02 I had, I had a friend who has someone we don't like, and-

Trevor Noah 48:04 Wait. [laughs]

Speaker 48:05 ... and they, they, and it was very obvious, and everyone pretend, like, doesn't say anything.

Trevor Noah 48:09 Yeah.

Speaker 48:09 And they're like, "You, you don't like this person." I said, "I don't. I really don't." And they were like, "Well, it's, you know, kind of you have to." And I'm like, and I named another friend of mine. I'm like, "I've never met her fucking husband. I never hope to."

Trevor Noah 48:22 [laughs]

Speaker 48:22 Like, I don't have to be friends with your partner.

Trevor Noah 48:24 Wait. Did-

Speaker 48:24 I said, "If her husband fell on me, I wouldn't know it was her husband, so why do I?"

Trevor Noah 48:29 I've met you for the first time today, and we've got on like a house on fire.

Speaker 48:31 Right, exactly.

Trevor Noah 48:32 But you a likable person.

Speaker 48:33 I am a likable person.

Trevor Noah 48:34 You an interesting person.

Speaker 48:35 I am an interesting person.

Trevor Noah 48:35 You an interested person.

Speaker 48:37 I am an interested person.

Trevor Noah 48:38 What is it about that guy?

Speaker 48:39 I don't, I don't know. I just didn't, I d- it was a, it was a woman. I didn't like her. I just did- she was mean

Trevor Noah 48:43 You just didn't feel her vibe.

Speaker 48:44 No, I didn't like them. You can not like people. I like-

Trevor Noah 48:47 I like this.

Speaker 48:48 Yeah. One day, the other, [laughs] the other-

Trevor Noah 48:50 [laughs]

Speaker 48:50 I said to someone, I, I, they're like, I, I said, "I can't..." They're not friends, it was a work thing.

Trevor Noah 48:55 Yeah.

Speaker 48:55 And they were like, "Uh, wh- why, why are you leaving?" And I said, "I don't wanna talk to you anymore." [laughs] They were like, "What?" They, they said, "Honestly, why are you leaving?" I'm like, "Honestly?"

Trevor Noah 49:04 I'm done talking to you.

Speaker 49:05 I said, "I'm done talking to you." And they were like, "What?" And I go, "I, I wish I could say it any nicer, but that's really the reason I-"

Trevor Noah 49:11 Damn, Kara.

Speaker 49:12 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 49:12 And then what does the opposite of that look like? You're walking into this apartment in Brooklyn.

Speaker 49:15 I just wanna talk to you.

Trevor Noah 49:16 You just-

Speaker 49:17 I like, I like hanging out with you. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 49:19 Did you know it was her when you walked into the room?

Speaker 49:20 We'd met before because, uh, dating people are-

Trevor Noah 49:24 Yeah, yeah

Speaker 49:24 ... the TV for couples. Like, they're like, "Oh, let's see what happens here." You know what I mean?

Trevor Noah 49:29 [laughs]

Speaker 49:29 We're entertainment.

Trevor Noah 49:30 [laughs]

Speaker 49:30 And we'd, so we met before at a bar. So I, we, we both understood we would be the entertainment for the evening, so.

Trevor Noah 49:36 And everyone was watching you.

Speaker 49:37 That's right. And so before, we met before, so we made sure that we got, we had a initial like for each other, yeah.

Trevor Noah 49:44 Was she also in tech?

Speaker 49:46 No, not at all.

Trevor Noah 49:47 Was that refreshing?

Speaker 49:48 Uh-

Trevor Noah 49:49 Is that a tech-

Speaker 49:49 She was in journalism

Trevor Noah 49:50 ... is that a, is that it-

Speaker 49:51 So that was okay

Trevor Noah 49:51 ... was that him being tech again?

Speaker 49:52 No, it was fine.

Trevor Noah 49:52 No, no, no, no.

Speaker 49:53 I never dated in tech.

Trevor Noah 49:53 I wanna know, you know why? Because- [laughs] Okay ... oh, refreshing, nicely done.

Speaker 49:56 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 49:56 [laughs] Nicely done.

Speaker 49:56 No, my ex, my ex-wife was a, a, is a techie. She was-

Trevor Noah 49:59 Yeah

Speaker 49:59 ...

Speaker 50:00 the CTO of America of, under Obama.

Trevor Noah 50:03 Wow.

Speaker 50:03 I know. She worked at Google. She was CTO of America, yeah.

Trevor Noah 50:06 No, but that w- that, no, the reason I'm asking is 'cause I was going like, is it more refreshing to be with somebody who's in your world-

Speaker 50:11 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 50:11 ... or somebody, so like I, I, I like hanging out with Eugene partly because he doesn't care about half of those things that I'm talking about.

Speaker 50:17 Right, right.

Trevor Noah 50:18 And, but then I sometimes go, like, it is fun to be with somebody where-

Speaker 50:21 I feel like you two should have a little relationship. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 50:24 I wish. I'm not his type.

Speaker 50:25 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 50:26 I'm not his type. Never. All the things that he said.

Speaker 50:27 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 50:28 Never.

Speaker 50:28 Yeah, never.

Trevor Noah 50:28 All the things that he said.

Speaker 50:29 Never.

Trevor Noah 50:30 Family oriented.

Speaker 50:31 Ugh.

Trevor Noah 50:32 Ugh.

Speaker 50:33 Ugh.

Trevor Noah 50:33 Ugh. [laughs] Fluffy.

Speaker 50:33 What are you, hang out with Bill Maher?

Trevor Noah 50:34 [laughs]

Speaker 50:34 Is that, you're a Bill Maher character?

Trevor Noah 50:36 Friends first. Friends first. That's me. [laughs] No, but, but like, yeah, I, I just mean like the, you know, the refreshing world. 'Cause you, how mu- how many years have you worked in tech?

Speaker 50:47 12, 20, 30? 30.

Trevor Noah 50:50 30 years.

Speaker 50:51 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 50:51 And I would, I would say, you know everyone who has done anything in tech.

Speaker 50:55 I do.

Trevor Noah 50:55 You know what I mean?

Speaker 50:55 Well, the, you know, I didn't know Edison, but in-

Trevor Noah 50:59 Yeah, but I mean, this is- [laughs]

Speaker 51:00 But, um-

Trevor Noah 51:01 I would assume you didn't know Edison

Speaker 51:03 ... you know, I didn't, I didn't know, I didn't know the Hewlett-Packard people.

Trevor Noah 51:04 Yeah.

Speaker 51:05 I met them later when they were older. But from Jobs and Gates on, yes.

Trevor Noah 51:09 But that's what I mean.

Speaker 51:09 Yes.

Trevor Noah 51:09 That's, that is the tech we know-

Speaker 51:11 Oh, no, there were people before that

Trevor Noah 51:12 ... no, no, I know, I-

Speaker 51:12 There were all these companies before the three-

Trevor Noah 51:13 Yes, but I'm, I'm not assuming you've lived forever.

Speaker 51:15 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 51:15 That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 51:16 Yes, that's right. Yes.

Trevor Noah 51:17 Yeah.

Speaker 51:17 So from Gates and Jobs on.

Trevor Noah 51:18 Cool.

Speaker 51:19 Yes.

Trevor Noah 51:19 So how much of this do you now see as your career, and how much of it do you see as your passion? 'Cause I, when I'm, when I listen to you speak-

Speaker 51:26 I love it

Trevor Noah 51:26 ... yeah, okay, okay, cool. All right, cool.

Speaker 51:27 I love it. I, I wouldn't, you know, one of the, the reason my book was called Burn Book: A Love Story, a tech, a tech love story, I love tech.

Trevor Noah 51:33 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 51:33 I'm just pissed at what they did to it. Like, and, and pissed that they had to take all the juicy bits for themselves rather than-

Trevor Noah 51:39 What do you, what do you mean by that?

Speaker 51:41 Well, look, look, the internet was, was built by the US government, and it was paid for by the US taxpayer, but who made all the money?

Trevor Noah 51:48 Mm.

Speaker 51:48 A small group of largely white men, right? That's what happened there, right? In fact, almost to a person. And I don't understand why everybody doesn't benefit from

Speaker 52:00 the fruits of this amazing technology except for a small group of people, and I don't understand why a small group of people gets to decide everything for the rest of us. Why didn't they ever have any regulation? Why wasn't there any input by citizens on so much of this stuff around privacy? Why do they design things that are so damaging to people?

Trevor Noah 52:19 Yeah.

Speaker 52:19 Why can't they not do that? And also, and why don't they lean into the good parts and mitigate the bad parts? Why do they not care about the bad parts and don't feel it's their responsibility? So that's what it w- I, I lo- the, the, the amazing things tech can do for people, bringing pe- I have a vision of, the way I put it in the book was, uh, I, I have a vision of Star Trek, and we live in Star Wars.

Trevor Noah 52:42 Damn.

Speaker 52:43 You know? And Star Trek is an amazing vision of the future-

Trevor Noah 52:46 Yeah

Speaker 52:46 ... about diversity in its best light, in, um, in people understanding each other, where villains are complex.

Trevor Noah 52:53 Cooperation.

Speaker 52:54 Cooperation.

Trevor Noah 52:55 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 52:55 Problems too, and everything else.

Trevor Noah 52:57 Common cause.

Speaker 52:58 Common cause.

Trevor Noah 52:58 Yeah.

Speaker 52:58 Cool outfits.

Trevor Noah 53:00 [laughs]

Speaker 53:00 Um, and Star Wars is-

Trevor Noah 53:01 Well, I've-

Speaker 53:01 ... a very dark and dystopian vision about power and evil ultimately succeeding. They never win.

Trevor Noah 53:07 Yeah, never.

Speaker 53:08 The good people never win.

Trevor Noah 53:10 Yeah, they never win.

Speaker 53:10 At, at, you know, at the end.

Trevor Noah 53:11 It's just a constant slog.

Speaker 53:12 It's a constant slog against-

Trevor Noah 53:14 Yeah

Speaker 53:14 ... the abuse of technology by powerful people.

Trevor Noah 53:17 Yeah.

Speaker 53:17 And so I am furious at them for taking something that could bring people together and not caring enough to take out the parts that bring people apart, right? Like antisemitism-

Trevor Noah 53:30 Yeah

Speaker 53:30 ... or whatever.

Trevor Noah 53:31 Mm.

Speaker 53:31 And then hiding behind one of the most astonishing amendments in history, the, uh, free speech, right? Pretending they're all about free speech when they're not interested. They're interested in their free speech and nobody else's.

Trevor Noah 53:45 Yeah.

Speaker 53:45 Right? So.

Trevor Noah 53:46 When you, when you've seen them over, over the years, I wonder how much you've seen them change, because I, I-

Speaker 53:51 Yeah

Trevor Noah 53:51 ... I remember, um, having a conversation once with a politician.

Speaker 53:55 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 53:55 And it was interesting to see how much they didn't recognize themselves-

Speaker 53:59 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 53:59 ... in the person that they were. So I, I met a politician, and then 10 years later I was in an interview with them, and I asked them about something that they had said 10 years ago. But I didn't say it was them.

Speaker 54:08 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 54:08 I just said, "This is an idea. What do you think?" And they're like, "Uh, I think that's unrealistic, and you gotta understand that that's not how the real world works." And I was like, "You said that."

Speaker 54:15 Mm.

Trevor Noah 54:15 And they're like-

Speaker 54:16 Oh

Trevor Noah 54:16 ... "I don't know if I said that. I..."

Speaker 54:17 Oh.

Trevor Noah 54:17 I was like, "No, no, you said that."

Speaker 54:18 Sounds like Obama, but go ahead. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 54:20 But it's, but there's so many politicians-

Speaker 54:22 I had that conversation with Obama.

Trevor Noah 54:24 Really?

Speaker 54:24 Oh yeah, about, um, encryption.

Trevor Noah 54:27 And what was the conversation?

Speaker 54:28 He was like, "We need to open up the..." It, it w- it, it, no, it wasn't encryption. It was about, yeah, I think it was about, it was something where he had said one thing-

Trevor Noah 54:35 Mm-hmm

Speaker 54:35 ... and then he, he later said something else. And he goes, "Well, if you knew what I knew now." And I was like, "Oh, stop."

Trevor Noah 54:40 But that's, but that's what I-

Speaker 54:41 Right

Trevor Noah 54:41 ... wonder with, like, the tech guys as well, is- I, look, maybe I'm taking them at face value. When I see a lot of them launch an idea, maybe not today, 'cause today the money's really in-

Speaker 54:52 Every time

Trevor Noah 54:52 ... the forefront. Everything is like, can it scale?

Speaker 54:54 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 54:54 Will it be a unicorn? What are the numbers?

Speaker 54:56 Why am I at this dinner with Trump?

Trevor Noah 54:57 It's-

Speaker 54:57 Why, Tim Cook, am I giving Trump-

Trevor Noah 54:59 Right

Speaker 54:59 ... a golden statue?

Trevor Noah 55:00 Yes.

Speaker 55:01 I know he is dying inside. I know it. I, I don't care. He can deny it all he wants. I know he is. He's-

Trevor Noah 55:06 But my question is-

Speaker 55:08 Hmm

Trevor Noah 55:08 ... like, what have they lost that they had in the beginning? 'Cause in the beginning it starts as a-

Speaker 55:11 Hope.

Trevor Noah 55:12 You think it's hope?

Speaker 55:13 Well, it's interesting 'cause, y- you know, I've known, someone like Sam Altman, I knew him when he was 19. He was really interesting as a 19-year-old when he did Loopt, which was a failure. His company, it was a location services. I don't even remember what it did, but it was a location, uh, pinger kind of thing. And, you know, parts of it remain. I, I think people are often the way they are when I met them early are the way they are now, just with more money, and then money has its deleterious effects.

Trevor Noah 55:40 Hmm.

Speaker 55:40 Or too much money.

Trevor Noah 55:41 Hmm.

Speaker 55:41 Or too much, you know, they have a lot of people licking them up and down and agreeing with them violently about every, like, "Oh, right. Good job." And I think what happens is they become ... Do you remember in Succession, as you watch that show, which I think that was a fantastic show depicting wealth and power, what happens and the deleterious effects of it.

Speaker 56:00 Their worlds kept getting smaller and smaller. In their homes, they went from their tight little cashmere homes, to their cars, to their planes, to their boats.

Trevor Noah 56:10 Yes.

Speaker 56:10 And they never encountered people, right?

Trevor Noah 56:12 Yeah.

Speaker 56:12 They s- less and less. The last scene of Succession, I thought, reminds me of tech people a lot. Think about that last scene. Besides the guy who died [laughs] , Logan Roy, everybody, the ma- the, the oldest son, he was alone by himself by the water, alone.

Trevor Noah 56:28 Yeah.

Speaker 56:28 With, with a, with a security guy. The couple, uh, uh, uh, was together, Tom and, um, Shiv.

Trevor Noah 56:35 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 56:36 They were in a insulated car, expensive car by themsel- You know what I mean?

Trevor Noah 56:40 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 56:40 They were insulated. They went from the r- hotel room down through the kitchen-

Trevor Noah 56:45 Yeah

Speaker 56:45 ... through the thing. There was only one person who was with people, real people, was the other son. He's in a bar, and he's ha- he's the only one that's happy in that, and I thought it said a lot. So these people, they go from their cars to their yachts to their homes to their, like Mark Zuckerberg has a compound in Palo Alto.

Trevor Noah 57:05 Hmm.

Speaker 57:05 That means nobody gets in, nobody gets out. And so if you're like that, and you're constantly being told you're smart and every idea's-

Trevor Noah 57:12 Yeah

Speaker 57:12 ... right, you, you never get a feedback of, "You fucking asshole, what are you, kidding?" And you either ex- bring it into your life, like Mark Cuban enjoys feedback. He will listen.

Trevor Noah 57:22 Hmm.

Speaker 57:23 He's doing great. He's a great guy, because he will listen to people who disagree with him, and he'll, he'll seek out pe- He was just with Tucker Carlson. I read, I'm like, "What the fuck?" He goes, "I gotta listen to him." Like, he's open to hearing from lots of different people.

Trevor Noah 57:35 Yeah.

Speaker 57:35 And then there's people like-

Trevor Noah 57:36 Yeah

Speaker 57:36 ... Zuckerberg, who has a compound, and then he bought half of Hawaii, and then he bought this. It, it's to insulate yourself from everyone else. And if you start off as kind of a, a bit of a broken person or a jerk, like Jeff Bezos was always a jerk is, in my memory. [laughs] Like, he was a jerk to start with, and he's a bigger jerk now. Um, y- when you have money and the deleterious effects of wealth, they become worse. It, it, it emphasizes the way you were, the way you initially-

Trevor Noah 58:03 Hmm

Speaker 58:03 ... started.

Trevor Noah 58:04 Amplifies it.

Speaker 58:05 It amplifies it.

Trevor Noah 58:05 Just makes you more of you. You know, there's, there's-

Speaker 58:08 Look at Elon. Look at Elon.

Trevor Noah 58:09 What-

Speaker 58:09 Like, he was so interesting, and he's not

Trevor Noah 58:12 What you've explained about people being insulated from the truth-

Speaker 58:16 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 58:16 ... once they acquire a certain amount of power, it's like ... Are you a big fan of The Sopranos?

Speaker 58:20 Yeah, I love The Sopranos. Of course.

Trevor Noah 58:21 Remember the episode where Tony Bendetto came out of prison, and then he was hanging out with Tony-

Speaker 58:26 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 58:26 ... and the rest of the goons?

Speaker 58:27 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 58:27 And then he made the joke about, "Boy, you're fat."

Speaker 58:29 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 58:30 And then Tony got offended-

Speaker 58:31 Oh

Trevor Noah 58:31 ... called him to the side and said, "I know we joke around, but I'm the boss now."

Speaker 58:36 Oh, right, 'cause he's changed. He can't be told that. Yes, they're like that. It's, a- and it depends on the person. Like, you know, when I run into some people, they, uh, and I'll say, "What are you talking about?"

Trevor Noah 58:47 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 58:47 And they're like, "Oh, my people agree with me." I'm like, "Oh, really? They work for you."

Trevor Noah 58:52 [laughs]

Speaker 58:52 "And they're dependent on you." They, you know, just, i- I mean, the board of Tesla is a really good example. They cannot have been running this thing correctly given what's happened, and then wanna give him a trillion-dollar pay package.

Trevor Noah 59:03 Hmm.

Speaker 59:04 So far, the record in the recent years has been pretty problematic, right? Not just, not just the, the re- the, the lack of sales, but everything, the drug use, the, you know, the crazy political posturing.

Trevor Noah 59:17 Hmm.

Speaker 59:18 Any other company, they would've been like, "You need to move along in that job of yours. You need to, like, we need to get someone else to figure out how to keep this company going." Instead-

Trevor Noah 59:26 You know, I'm always torn with those types of stories because I go, I know this is, this is a crazy alt take in that-

Speaker 59:33 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 59:33 ... in that way, right?

Speaker 59:33 Go ahead.

Trevor Noah 59:34 But I sometimes wonder if some of these guys are screwed over by the fact that now they're in the public eye in a different way.

Speaker 59:40 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 59:40 'Cause we don't-

Speaker 59:41 That too

Trevor Noah 59:41 ... we don't really know what many of the great inventors in life thought. They didn't have Twitter. They didn't have Facebook. They, like w- maybe they're writing, but I'm saying it wasn't a front-facing-

Speaker 59:50 Oh, no, Edison was quite a, quite a jerk, and also was a- abusive of tabloids at the time.

Trevor Noah 59:56 Oh, damn.

Speaker 59:56 He would, he put, he put all kinds of nasty shit out about Tesla.

Trevor Noah 1:00:00 Oh yeah, when they were having the beef.

Speaker 1:00:01 Really? Yes, totally.

Trevor Noah 1:00:01 Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was having a beef.

Speaker 1:00:02 Oh.

Trevor Noah 1:00:02 He was trying to undermine his technology-

Speaker 1:00:04 He undermined him

Trevor Noah 1:00:04 ... but he was, yeah.

Speaker 1:00:05 He used tech- he used reporters of the day. They-

Trevor Noah 1:00:08 So it's the same old, same old.

Speaker 1:00:09 Same old pub-

Speaker 1:00:09 He invented on the day.

Speaker 1:00:10 Yeah. He used to, he, he, Tesla's a, a very sad story. What an inventor, but he got, he got mowed under. He got turfed by Edison, 'cause Edison knew how to use and manipulate the press, which is-

Trevor Noah 1:00:21 But what I'm saying is we didn't, or not the we, we weren't there, but do you think it was as easy to know who Edison was was for the people-

Speaker 1:00:28 Oh, yes. No, he was very famous

Trevor Noah 1:00:29 You think people, like, knew him as, like, the shit guy?

Speaker 1:00:31 Oh, yeah, very famous. Very f- he was a, he was, you know, look, someone else like Charles Lindbergh, very famous.

Trevor Noah 1:00:36 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:00:37 Most famous person of the day. Have turned out to be a, you know, a virulent anti-Semite and a, a lover of Hitler. But, um, yeah, no, some of the people had worldwide celebrity. Like, some people had-

Trevor Noah 1:00:48 For their, like, the bad side of their-

Speaker 1:00:50 They didn't know the bad side.

Trevor Noah 1:00:51 No, that's what I mean.

Speaker 1:00:52 Right, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:00:52 Sorry, sorry, that's what I'm trying to say, is I'm going- Back in the day, it was a lot easier to obscure who you were and put out who you want people to think you are. That, that-

Speaker 1:01:02 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:01:02 ... I think that's what I mean.

Speaker 1:01:03 Yes. No, it is.

Trevor Noah 1:01:04 And I'm going back-

Speaker 1:01:04 No, it is.

Trevor Noah 1:01:04 Yeah

Speaker 1:01:04 I agree.

Trevor Noah 1:01:04 And I'm saying, like, now someone like Elon gets exposed way more than he would if he was in-

Speaker 1:01:08 Way quicker

Trevor Noah 1:01:08 ... like the 1920s.

Speaker 1:01:08 Well, that's because he doesn't shut the fuck up.

Trevor Noah 1:01:10 [laughs]

Speaker 1:01:10 Like, at some point you're like, "Stop. Put, put down."

Trevor Noah 1:01:13 [laughs]

Speaker 1:01:14 Like, I, I used to, when, after we stopped getting along, I used to put stuff out, because I knew he read my stuff, at, like, 2:00 in the morning because I knew he was up to-

Trevor Noah 1:01:23 That is hilarious

Speaker 1:01:23 ... and I would, I put up-

Trevor Noah 1:01:25 You'd troll him?

Speaker 1:01:26 Someone... Kanye West put up the fat picture of him with Ari Emanuel. Remember that one?

Trevor Noah 1:01:29 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:01:30 And Kanye West is the one that did that, and it was like, "Oh, man, what happened?" And I, [laughs] I, I never, I, and I'm not on Twitter anymore even though I have 1.5 million followers. Um, and I, and he wrote something really awful, as always, and then I was like, "Oh, man, I just did that." I just said, "Oh, man." And five seconds later, Elon blocked me. It was so funny. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:01:51 [laughs] So small.

Speaker 1:01:52 But I knew he saw. So easy. I was like, "Oh my God, you're a billionaire. If I was a bil-

Trevor Noah 1:01:57 [laughs]

Speaker 1:01:57 Let me tell... Remember when he was at Mar-a-Lago for-

Trevor Noah 1:01:59 Which time?

Speaker 1:01:59 ... for New Year's

Speaker 1:02:00 Eve?

Trevor Noah 1:02:00 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:02:01 All right. I thought to my-

Trevor Noah 1:02:01 Yeah, for the big party

Speaker 1:02:02 ... here's what I thought to myself: I'm the richest man in the world-

Trevor Noah 1:02:05 Mm

Speaker 1:02:05 ... and I'm fucking at Mar-a-Lago-

Trevor Noah 1:02:06 Yes

Speaker 1:02:06 ... with all these stiffs.

Trevor Noah 1:02:08 Mm.

Speaker 1:02:08 Like, and this guy dancing to YMCA. Like, if I'm the b- the richest person in the world, do you know where I am? I just bought France, and I've given everybody free wine.

Trevor Noah 1:02:16 [laughs]

Speaker 1:02:16 And we're all... Do you know what I mean? And Beyonce is there.

Trevor Noah 1:02:20 We need to give Kara Swisher all the money in the world.

Speaker 1:02:22 Wouldn't you?

Trevor Noah 1:02:22 This sounds like a fun world.

Speaker 1:02:23 Wouldn't you?

Trevor Noah 1:02:24 Buy a country, give everybody the wine.

Speaker 1:02:25 I mean-

Eugene Khoza 1:02:25 Get friends, right?

Trevor Noah 1:02:26 You know what's funny about that story is do you remember, like, I don't know why there's some moments that are seared into my brain. Do you remember when Trump was, like, basically saying Elon's annoying and he's sick-

Speaker 1:02:35 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:02:35 ... of him being around?

Speaker 1:02:36 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:02:37 So there was, there's... But this is, like, in public. This is not a secret thing.

Speaker 1:02:39 No, no.

Eugene Khoza 1:02:39 Not on the side?

Trevor Noah 1:02:40 You could... No, no, no. You can see this. Th- they were talking to him about Elon and his work or whatever, and Trump was like, "Yeah, you know Elon, very smart. He's doing big things. Doing big, big things."

Speaker 1:02:48 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:02:48 "Very smart. He's, uh, he's been around, always here."

Eugene Khoza 1:02:51 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:02:51 "Always h-

Speaker 1:02:52 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:02:52 "Sometimes I wonder when he's gonna go, but he doesn't go."

Speaker 1:02:55 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:02:55 "He's here."

Speaker 1:02:55 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:02:56 "Every day."

Speaker 1:02:56 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:02:57 "I go, 'Don't you have to run a company or something?' But he stays. He stays."

Speaker 1:03:00 Yeah. [laughs] Nice. Well done.

Trevor Noah 1:03:01 "Good old Elon. Good old Elon." [laughs]

Speaker 1:03:03 Get the fuck out of here. Like, you know, get the fuck out of here. He, he needed the money.

Trevor Noah 1:03:08 You can really tell he's like, "Yo, man."

Speaker 1:03:09 He needed the money.

Trevor Noah 1:03:09 "Who the hell?"

Speaker 1:03:09 He needed the money.

Trevor Noah 1:03:10 I was like, for Trump to be like, "Who is this loser who I can't get rid of?" He's like, "You've done your job. You gave me the money."

Eugene Khoza 1:03:15 You get me-

Trevor Noah 1:03:15 "You helped me win the election."

Speaker 1:03:16 Now get the fuck out.

Trevor Noah 1:03:16 "Uh, move on now."

Speaker 1:03:17 Yeah. You know, when, uh, when he f- first started showing up there, like, and he was... A- because after the election, they're like, "Oh, he'll go." I'm like, "Oh, he's not gonna go. He has nowhere to go."

Trevor Noah 1:03:26 You called it?

Speaker 1:03:27 He's a m- Wh- Oh, oh. Trump winning-

Trevor Noah 1:03:28 The fact that he's gonna stay?

Speaker 1:03:29 Oh, I thought he was gonna stay. And so I ran into a Trump person pretty high up, and he goes, "Oh, you're so mean about Elon." I go, "He's fucking nuts. You'll see." I said, "He's a, he has a drug problem, as, as has been well reported by The New York Times. He's got... Well, he doesn't consider it a problem. Whatever. He likes the ketamine and stuff like that."

Trevor Noah 1:03:45 Yes, he likes the ketamine.

Speaker 1:03:46 "He talks about it. He likes the ketamine." And, um, I said, "And he's really irritating. Like, re- he really is, just so you know. And he's become more irritating now."

Trevor Noah 1:03:55 [laughs]

Speaker 1:03:55 "And you can see it." And, and they were like, "Oh, you're just jealous. We have Musk." I'm like, "Okay, good luck." Four weeks later, this person I ran into, they're like, "Oh my God." [laughs] And I was like, "I told you."

Trevor Noah 1:04:07 "I told you." [laughs]

Speaker 1:04:07 And they're like, "You were right. He won't leave. He won't..." [laughs] And I was like, "He's not leaving." I said, he goes, "When we move up to White House, he'll leave." I go, "He won't leave."

Trevor Noah 1:04:17 [laughs]

Speaker 1:04:17 And he didn't. Remember? He was always-

Eugene Khoza 1:04:19 He didn't go anywhere

Speaker 1:04:19 ... he didn't go a- He's like, "No, he, in the White House we can keep him out." I'm like-

Trevor Noah 1:04:22 No

Speaker 1:04:22 ... "You can't keep him out."

Trevor Noah 1:04:23 He became the White House mascot, like next to the desk.

Speaker 1:04:25 Mascot. With that kid, that poor kid.

Trevor Noah 1:04:26 Yeah, yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:04:27 Wait, so how could they not keep him out of the White House? I mean-

Speaker 1:04:29 Because Trump said it was okay

Eugene Khoza 1:04:30 ... you could have easily just blocked someone.

Speaker 1:04:31 Trump is like Tony Soprano. He likes people hanging around.

Trevor Noah 1:04:33 Yeah.

Speaker 1:04:34 [gasps]

Trevor Noah 1:04:34 And also remember, like, Trump, if you go back in his life-

Eugene Khoza 1:04:37 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:04:38 ... I think it was his dad who taught him a lesson. He said, "Always stay close to the richest, most powerful people that you can."

Speaker 1:04:43 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:04:44 So the-

Speaker 1:04:44 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:04:44 ... Trump faces that dichotomy. He likes-

Speaker 1:04:45 I also think he likes a crew, because he's lonely

Trevor Noah 1:04:47 ... he like, yeah. But he likes cool.

Speaker 1:04:49 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:04:49 And I think he has, he actually has an acute sense of what cool is.

Speaker 1:04:51 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:04:51 But sometimes he's stuck with the uncool, but it's attached to the rich or the powerful.

Speaker 1:04:55 The rich.

Trevor Noah 1:04:55 And he's like, "Ah, I've got to hang out here."

Speaker 1:04:57 It's a lot of money.

Eugene Khoza 1:04:57 Wow.

Speaker 1:04:57 He just said it recently. He said he's got to come back.

Trevor Noah 1:05:00 Who, Elon?

Eugene Khoza 1:05:00 He said it?

Speaker 1:05:01 Elon, yeah. Trump did.

Eugene Khoza 1:05:03 He misses it?

Speaker 1:05:03 Now I thought he shouldn't have said that. He won't come back now.

Trevor Noah 1:05:05 He won't come back.

Speaker 1:05:06 No, because-

Trevor Noah 1:05:07 Just because-

Speaker 1:05:07 Because also they were, when they were saying, "You know, we got Elon," I go, "Oh, it's gonna break up bad." I said it publicly. I was like, "This is gonna be... Like, there can be only one. It's Highlander time here, everybody, and it's gonna be Trump."

Trevor Noah 1:05:18 Mm, I love that reference.

Speaker 1:05:18 FYI.

Eugene Khoza 1:05:19 You know the Highlander? Ugh, ugh.

Speaker 1:05:19 I love that. They're making it again.

Eugene Khoza 1:05:21 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:05:21 Uh, yeah.

Speaker 1:05:22 They're making it again.

Eugene Khoza 1:05:23 "We are born to be kings. We're the princes of the universe."

Trevor Noah 1:05:27 "We're the princes of the universe." Ah.

Speaker 1:05:29 Ah.

Eugene Khoza 1:05:30 [sings]

Trevor Noah 1:05:31 [laughs] Oh, what a time.

Speaker 1:05:33 Who is that? Christopher Lambert, Lamb-

Trevor Noah 1:05:35 Lambert

Speaker 1:05:36 ... Lambert, right.

Trevor Noah 1:05:37 Lambert, I think, yes.

Speaker 1:05:38 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:05:38 Yes.

Speaker 1:05:38 Yeah, and of course Sean Connery was in it.

Trevor Noah 1:05:40 Oh.

Speaker 1:05:40 No, they're d- making it again. I forget who the star is, but it's good.

Eugene Khoza 1:05:42 Do you think it's gonna be any good?

Speaker 1:05:43 Oh, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:05:44 What, you think so?

Speaker 1:05:45 Oh, yeah. It's a good cast.

Trevor Noah 1:05:47 Okay, yeah, but the cast for me-

Eugene Khoza 1:05:49 The story?

Trevor Noah 1:05:49 ... doesn't sell-

Speaker 1:05:50 Well, the first one's great. It's like Road House, right? Like Road House-

Trevor Noah 1:05:53 You just, you trust that it's-

Speaker 1:05:54 Road House, the original Road House is the finest movie in the land. I mean-

Trevor Noah 1:05:57 I don't know, Kara. I feel like, I feel like, uh, movies-

Speaker 1:05:59 They might-

Trevor Noah 1:05:59 ... movies are in the same world that tech is right now.

Speaker 1:06:01 No, they're recopying themselves

Trevor Noah 1:06:02 ... and also nothing feel... Not nothing nothing. There's a few things that pop out, don't get me wrong. But for the most part, if I look at the, the average-

Speaker 1:06:09 Like Weapons or Sinners or something.

Trevor Noah 1:06:10 Yeah, exactly. Weapons, Sinners. It's funny, yesterday we were talking about those exact same movies. Um, yeah, but I, I just feel like it's less adventurous, it's less edgy, it's less interesting.

Speaker 1:06:21 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:06:21 It's less, uh, imaginative. It's less, you know?

Speaker 1:06:24 Yes, it's limited, but I think there, there's always been sequels. There's always... I think we always say that, like, "Eh, this donut's not as delicious as it used to be," and it kind of is.

Trevor Noah 1:06:32 [laughs]

Speaker 1:06:32 It wasn't very good before. Like, we have memories that maybe... 'Cause, you know, what did you, what was your formative movie?

Trevor Noah 1:06:39 My formative movie-

Speaker 1:06:41 I'm guessing Star Wars, but-

Trevor Noah 1:06:42 No, uh, The Matrix.

Speaker 1:06:44 Matrix, okay.

Trevor Noah 1:06:45 Yeah. Noth- nothing has shaped how I perceive... And not like is it real, is it not real? Not like that.

Speaker 1:06:51 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:06:51 Not like, ah, red pill, blue. No, actually, that stuff I think is dumb in the way people interpret it, to be honest with you.

Speaker 1:06:55 Right.

Trevor Noah 1:06:56 It, it was, first of all, the computer world

Speaker 1:06:59 Amazing movie. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:07:00 Just-

Speaker 1:07:00 Also amazing movie

Trevor Noah 1:07:00 ... yeah, yeah. The way-

Speaker 1:07:01 Great story. That's why you liked it.

Trevor Noah 1:07:03 Yes.

Speaker 1:07:03 It was not because it was the tech. It was the story.

Trevor Noah 1:07:05 No, but I, but I did love the aspects of tech.

Speaker 1:07:08 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:07:08 And remember, for me, I was this little kid-

Speaker 1:07:10 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:07:10 ... watching this guy who's, like, a loser in his world.

Eugene Khoza 1:07:14 Right.

Speaker 1:07:14 Right.

Eugene Khoza 1:07:14 Which guy?

Trevor Noah 1:07:14 And then you go-

Eugene Khoza 1:07:15 What? You would know.

Speaker 1:07:16 Neo.

Trevor Noah 1:07:16 No, no, I meant this person-

Speaker 1:07:17 No, not you

Trevor Noah 1:07:18 ... not you.

Speaker 1:07:18 Keanu Reeves.

Trevor Noah 1:07:18 So I was watching Keanu Reeves.

Eugene Khoza 1:07:19 Keanu, okay.

Trevor Noah 1:07:20 This, like-

Eugene Khoza 1:07:20 Thank you, Kara

Trevor Noah 1:07:20 ... sort of loser who's in his bedroom the whole time-

Speaker 1:07:23 Yeah. Oh

Trevor Noah 1:07:23 ... and he's do... And I was like, "Man-

Eugene Khoza 1:07:24 In his bedroom

Trevor Noah 1:07:25 ... there's a world where you could-

Speaker 1:07:26 PCI slot

Trevor Noah 1:07:27 ... yeah, you could-

Eugene Khoza 1:07:28 [laughs]

Speaker 1:07:28 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:07:28 You could become... 'Cause remember, he's, like, in there, and they come and, they come and vibe and-

Speaker 1:07:31 See, I go back

Eugene Khoza 1:07:32 You know what the business is.

Trevor Noah 1:07:34 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:07:35 It goes back. Hyperlooped in.

Speaker 1:07:36 I could be a rapper.

Trevor Noah 1:07:38 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:07:39 [laughs]

Speaker 1:07:39 Go ahead. Except for being a-

Trevor Noah 1:07:39 Yeah, but it was, I don't know, for me-

Speaker 1:07:40 ... dull white woman

Trevor Noah 1:07:41 ... it was, there was that element of it.

Eugene Khoza 1:07:42 [laughs] Kara.

Speaker 1:07:44 Who can't sing.

Trevor Noah 1:07:48 [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:07:49 [laughs]

Speaker 1:07:49 Do you know, my sons have really good-

Eugene Khoza 1:07:51 Oh, man

Speaker 1:07:51 ... I'm gonna take this aside. My sons have really good musical taste.

Trevor Noah 1:07:53 Yeah.

Speaker 1:07:53 And I w- had, they were using my Spotify at one point, um, and just making playlists and stuff like that. And they, I think the guy who's head of Spotify was like, "You have great musical taste." I'm like, "What are you talking about?" He goes, and they said someone, and I was like, "Who's that?" Like, 'cause I didn't know my sons were making-

Trevor Noah 1:08:07 Oh, they were, like, making your playlist.

Speaker 1:08:09 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:08:09 They were making your playlist?

Speaker 1:08:10 So I look cool.

Trevor Noah 1:08:11 Nice.

Speaker 1:08:11 Yeah. In a weird way.

Eugene Khoza 1:08:12 So you love The Matrix?

Speaker 1:08:13 Do love The Matrix.

Trevor Noah 1:08:13 Yeah, because it, yeah, because it was just, it was everything.

Eugene Khoza 1:08:15 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:08:15 It was, like, everything, everything, everything.

Speaker 1:08:17 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:08:18 But the most important thing, okay, this is why I think it's formative. And this is, I, I have this theory, and you know I, I say this to you. I, I apologize for saying it to you again, Eugene.

Eugene Khoza 1:08:25 No, go ahead.

Trevor Noah 1:08:25 I'll say it to you. I've never said it to you.

Eugene Khoza 1:08:26 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:08:27 I think we take for granted how powerful the stories we are told can be-

Speaker 1:08:33 Absolutely

Trevor Noah 1:08:33 ... and what they can do to us.

Speaker 1:08:35 Wow

Trevor Noah 1:08:35 ... because they shape how we then perceive the world and what we think-

Speaker 1:08:38 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:08:38 ... is or isn't possible.

Speaker 1:08:39 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:08:39 Do, do, do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1:08:40 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:08:40 And so that's what, like, The Matrix m- forced me to think of the world differently.

Speaker 1:08:46 And what the world is really like.

Trevor Noah 1:08:47 Exactly.

Speaker 1:08:48 And about the layers of it, right?

Trevor Noah 1:08:49 Who's in, who's not in.

Speaker 1:08:51 Right.

Trevor Noah 1:08:51 Who are you?

Speaker 1:08:51 What's real?

Trevor Noah 1:08:51 Who do you pretend to be?

Speaker 1:08:53 What's not real?

Trevor Noah 1:08:53 What's real? What's not real? What's... You know, and for me, one of the most powerful scenes in The Matrix, the one that, like, really, really got me-

Speaker 1:08:59 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:08:59 ... was

Trevor Noah 1:09:00 the scene of Agent Smith with Morpheus.

Eugene Khoza 1:09:02 Right.

Speaker 1:09:02 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:09:03 Where Morpheus is sitting in the chair, and he's restrained.

Speaker 1:09:05 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:09:05 And Agent Smith comes up to him, you know, and he's, like, wiping-

Speaker 1:09:08 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:09:08 ... the s- you know, when he kicks the, the other-

Speaker 1:09:09 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:09:09 ... agents out of the room.

Speaker 1:09:10 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:09:11 And then he's like, "Get out. Get out." And then he talks to him, and he goes, and he says, like, "You want to know what it is about this place?"

Speaker 1:09:17 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:09:17 "It's the smell, if there is."

Speaker 1:09:20 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:09:20 And he goes-

Speaker 1:09:21 Yeah, they hated being there

Trevor Noah 1:09:22 ... yeah, but what I loved was how, like, at, to what you said earlier, complicated villains.

Speaker 1:09:28 Yes, that's right.

Eugene Khoza 1:09:28 Ah.

Speaker 1:09:28 He was a complicated villain.

Trevor Noah 1:09:29 I was like, imagine this guy hates that he's there.

Speaker 1:09:33 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:09:33 He hates that he has to be there.

Speaker 1:09:34 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:09:34 He hates that he has to... And, and it was one of the first-

Speaker 1:09:36 Like the DC National Guard right now.

Trevor Noah 1:09:38 Yeah. He was-

Speaker 1:09:39 You saw that, no, they just released a report, and they're like, "Oh, we're-"

Trevor Noah 1:09:41 They hated, they were like, "We hate being there."

Speaker 1:09:42 "We hate, we're embarrassed."

Trevor Noah 1:09:43 There you go.

Eugene Khoza 1:09:44 Wow.

Speaker 1:09:44 Yeah. It was an internal report that just got out.

Eugene Khoza 1:09:46 Wow.

Speaker 1:09:46 The guards thems- I feel, I never am mean to them.

Trevor Noah 1:09:49 There you go.

Speaker 1:09:49 They don't wanna be there.

Eugene Khoza 1:09:50 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:09:50 But there you go. And what it did for me was it opened my eyes to the possibility that the prison guard could also sometimes hate being in the prison.

Speaker 1:10:03 Right. Right. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:10:03 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1:10:04 100%.

Eugene Khoza 1:10:04 Absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 1:10:05 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:10:05 And, and then it, like, it, the, the way I thought of all of it, he wanted to be free, and it w- and that's why it shaped it, like-

Speaker 1:10:09 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:10:10 ... what was your, what was your-

Speaker 1:10:11 What was your formative movies?

Trevor Noah 1:10:12 What was your one?

Speaker 1:10:12 Terminator. I love The Terminator.

Trevor Noah 1:10:13 Which one?

Speaker 1:10:14 The first one. All of them. I like, I, maybe not-

Trevor Noah 1:10:16 But the, was the first one the formative one? Or-

Speaker 1:10:17 First one was the formative one.

Trevor Noah 1:10:18 Okay. What was it about Terminator?

Eugene Khoza 1:10:19 Point to actually same maker, right?

Speaker 1:10:21 Same, uh, no.

Trevor Noah 1:10:22 No, no, no, no.

Eugene Khoza 1:10:22 Matrix and Terminator.

Speaker 1:10:23 No.

Trevor Noah 1:10:23 Cameron and Wachowskis.

Eugene Khoza 1:10:24 What? No, the writer.

Speaker 1:10:25 Yeah, the Wachowskis.

Eugene Khoza 1:10:25 I'm saying the creator.

Speaker 1:10:26 Oh.

Trevor Noah 1:10:26 No, no, no.

Speaker 1:10:26 No, no. James, uh-

Trevor Noah 1:10:27 No, no. Cameron and Wachowski

Speaker 1:10:28 ... uh, the guy who-

Trevor Noah 1:10:28 I think the person that wrote, Cameron wrote Terminator originally.

Eugene Khoza 1:10:31 Terminator.

Speaker 1:10:32 Terminator. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:10:32 And then Wachowski-

Eugene Khoza 1:10:33 Yeah, the same guy that wrote-

Speaker 1:10:33 Wachowskis. Wachowskis.

Eugene Khoza 1:10:34 Wow.

Trevor Noah 1:10:34 No, then the Wachowskis wrote-

Speaker 1:10:35 Wachowskis wrote

Trevor Noah 1:10:36 ... The, The Matrix.

Speaker 1:10:36 The Matrix.

Trevor Noah 1:10:37 Okay.

Speaker 1:10:37 Similar. Probably influenced. I bet they were influenced-

Trevor Noah 1:10:39 Ah, I mean, you have to be influenced

Speaker 1:10:39 ... by Terminator.

Trevor Noah 1:10:40 Yes.

Speaker 1:10:41 Um, I just love that movie. It was so, it, I love time travel. I love time travel movies.

Trevor Noah 1:10:46 Yeah.

Speaker 1:10:46 I love time travel books. I think I would love to be able to time travel. And s- and I always was attracted, Ray Bradbury stories, you know. I even like Timecop with Jean-Claude Van Damme. I, like, I'll watch any time travel.

Trevor Noah 1:10:56 Hm. Timecop was, what a movie.

Speaker 1:10:58 What a movie.

Trevor Noah 1:10:58 What a deep cut.

Speaker 1:10:59 What a fucking fantastic movie. And so, um, so it was, uh, anyway, I loved it. And I just, the idea of can you change time was always really interesting to me. And just the, Schwarzenegger was amazing.

Trevor Noah 1:11:13 Mm.

Speaker 1:11:13 The visuals were amazing.

Trevor Noah 1:11:15 Yeah.

Speaker 1:11:15 The ideas, they were fucked up ideas.

Trevor Noah 1:11:18 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:11:18 They're really fucked up ideas of what the future is. And what was really interesting was the idea that it wasn't the machines that are the problem, it was people, right?

Trevor Noah 1:11:27 Yeah.

Speaker 1:11:27 People not understanding the power-

Trevor Noah 1:11:28 Yeah

Speaker 1:11:29 ... of the machines. And so I just, it was always resonated. And of course Gladiator. Who doesn't love Gladiator?

Trevor Noah 1:11:34 Oh, yes.

Speaker 1:11:34 But that's just the finest movie in the land, too. Another. Well, Road House. Road House is my favorite movie.

Trevor Noah 1:11:39 Road House. Formative movie?

Speaker 1:11:39 We just watched it again. I do the annual Road House watching.

Eugene Khoza 1:11:42 Road House.

Speaker 1:11:42 And not the Jake Gyllenhaal pathetic version.

Trevor Noah 1:11:44 Terrible.

Speaker 1:11:45 The Swayze-

Eugene Khoza 1:11:45 Shots fired

Speaker 1:11:46 ... the Swayze.

Trevor Noah 1:11:46 Swayze. Original. Formative movie?

Eugene Khoza 1:11:49 It has to be Norton and Pitt, Fight Club.

Speaker 1:11:53 Oh, really?

Trevor Noah 1:11:54 Oh, I like that.

Eugene Khoza 1:11:55 [sighs]

Trevor Noah 1:11:55 That's a nice one.

Speaker 1:11:56 Pretty good choice.

Eugene Khoza 1:11:56 It almost feels like it made you see the world in a different way through the characters that played in that world.

Trevor Noah 1:12:03 Yeah, yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:12:03 For example, Meat Loaf.

Speaker 1:12:04 Right.

Eugene Khoza 1:12:05 He wasn't a rock star there.

Speaker 1:12:06 Mm-hmm.

Eugene Khoza 1:12:06 He was just a guy with huge man boobs.

Speaker 1:12:09 Mm-hmm.

Eugene Khoza 1:12:10 And then for a long time in the movie, you're caught up thinking Tyler Durden and the other guy are the same-

Speaker 1:12:15 Mm

Eugene Khoza 1:12:16 ... are two different people.

Speaker 1:12:17 Right.

Eugene Khoza 1:12:17 And all along he was having a conversation with himself.

Trevor Noah 1:12:19 Spoiler alert. You're supposed to say that.

Speaker 1:12:21 You're supposed to... Well, that's all right. It's old. It's too late. If you wanna see it-

Trevor Noah 1:12:23 You know what would happen to you if we're in Fight Club?

Speaker 1:12:24 It's your own damn problem

Trevor Noah 1:12:25 ... you know what would happen to him-

Speaker 1:12:26 What?

Trevor Noah 1:12:26 ... if we're in Fight Club? I'd go, then blood would just seep through my teeth.

Speaker 1:12:30 Oh, wow.

Eugene Khoza 1:12:31 [laughs]

Speaker 1:12:31 Okay. Wow. Okay.

Trevor Noah 1:12:33 So, okay, you know what? Actually, this, th- so this is why I'm, you know, a- a- a- some people think it's a stretch, but you did bring it up with Star Trek.

Speaker 1:12:42 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:12:43 People take for granted-

Speaker 1:12:44 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:12:45 ... how much the technology that is made today, or the technology that has been made over the past few years-

Speaker 1:12:50 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:12:50 ... was made by people who were inspired to make it by the movies they were watching as kids.

Speaker 1:12:55 That's right. That's right. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:12:56 Like, they watched something and they went-

Speaker 1:12:57 Oh

Trevor Noah 1:12:58 ... "Could we make-"

Speaker 1:12:58 Elon is deeply impacted by sci-fi.

Trevor Noah 1:13:01 Exactly.

Eugene Khoza 1:13:01 Wow.

Speaker 1:13:01 Deeply. Like, we've had so many discussions about sci-fi and this t- The stuff he is interested in, it's crazy. Like, many of them are

Trevor Noah 1:13:08 And that's, that's what ... So this is why I harp on about, like, art.

Eugene Khoza 1:13:12 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:13:13 Not in the highfalutin sense.

Eugene Khoza 1:13:14 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:13:14 I just go, you know, people be like, "Who cares if movies become terrible?"

Speaker 1:13:17 Not just movies.

Trevor Noah 1:13:18 Who cares-

Speaker 1:13:18 Stories too

Trevor Noah 1:13:19 ... yeah, stories-

Speaker 1:13:19 Stories

Trevor Noah 1:13:19 ... books-

Eugene Khoza 1:13:20 Whatever it is

Speaker 1:13:20 ... yeah

Trevor Noah 1:13:20 ... whatever. The stuff-

Eugene Khoza 1:13:21 Right

Trevor Noah 1:13:21 ... that's getting out there.

Speaker 1:13:22 Cartoons. Like-

Trevor Noah 1:13:22 All of it.

Speaker 1:13:23 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:13:24 That stuff tells a kid-

Eugene Khoza 1:13:25 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:13:26 ... what to imagine and what to think about.

Speaker 1:13:27 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:13:28 That kid grows up into a man or a woman who is now going to try and create a certain type of future-

Speaker 1:13:33 Correct

Trevor Noah 1:13:33 ... based on the imagination that they have inherited.

Speaker 1:13:36 That's right. Right

Trevor Noah 1:13:36 And then if they don't have a good enough imagination, like, I think of all the movies and TV shows now that make the best thing you can be a billionaire.

Speaker 1:13:44 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:13:45 Rich, rich, money, money, rich, rich, money, money. No, no creativity really.

Speaker 1:13:48 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:13:48 It's just like money, money, rich, rich, power, power-

Speaker 1:13:49 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:13:49 ... rich, rich, money, money, money.

Speaker 1:13:50 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:13:50 And then I go, what does that mean for, like, the generation that grows up watching that?

Speaker 1:13:54 Right.

Trevor Noah 1:13:54 If they aspire to just be-

Speaker 1:13:55 Well, maybe they're not getting the art from there. There, there's a lot of television shows that are really powerful.

Trevor Noah 1:14:00 Uh, def-

Speaker 1:14:00 Right?

Trevor Noah 1:14:00 Look, I hope so. Yeah.

Speaker 1:14:01 So now, I mean, like, listen, what I watch was, like, Gilligan's Island and, you know, Love American Style-

Eugene Khoza 1:14:07 Love Boat

Speaker 1:14:07 ... Love Boat. So-

Eugene Khoza 1:14:07 I love Love Boat

Speaker 1:14:08 ... and somehow I made it through. Like, sometimes I think we overestimate the, the negative effects of some of this stuff. It's like-

Trevor Noah 1:14:14 Oh, not the negative. I just, I don't, I don't underestimate the, um, inspirational effects.

Speaker 1:14:18 Right, right. But look, go back and look at H.G. Wells. Read that sometime. That guy clocked ... Leonardo da Vinci clocked a lot of stuff, right?

Eugene Khoza 1:14:26 Yeah.

Speaker 1:14:26 I mean, h- if you go look at his drawings, you're like, "How did he know that?"

Trevor Noah 1:14:30 Yeah, you, you do.

Speaker 1:14:31 Right? How did he get it?

Trevor Noah 1:14:32 They might've been time travelers.

Speaker 1:14:33 Maybe so. Where would you go in time if you could travel?

Trevor Noah 1:14:36 Definitely forwards.

Speaker 1:14:37 You can't go forwards.

Trevor Noah 1:14:38 Well, what do you mean?

Speaker 1:14:39 I'm just telling you.

Trevor Noah 1:14:39 I have to go backwards?

Speaker 1:14:40 I've made the rule. I'm now the king.

Eugene Khoza 1:14:41 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:14:41 Okay.

Eugene Khoza 1:14:41 You can't. Uh, thank you.

Speaker 1:14:42 You can't go-

Trevor Noah 1:14:43 All right.

Eugene Khoza 1:14:44 Forward.

Trevor Noah 1:14:44 So I have to go backwards.

Speaker 1:14:45 Backwards.

Eugene Khoza 1:14:46 Backwards.

Speaker 1:14:46 Only back.

Trevor Noah 1:14:46 Boo boo doo boo doo boo doo boo doo boo doo. Okay, let me think. This is a difficult ... Okay. W- let- let's establish a few, few rules.

Speaker 1:14:52 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:14:53 If I'm going backwards in time, am I going, am I gonna meet me? How does your time travel work? Am I-

Speaker 1:14:59 Oh, the time-

Trevor Noah 1:14:59 Do I exist in the back?

Speaker 1:14:59 ... halfway back, you see yourself, you blow up.

Trevor Noah 1:15:01 Like, do I exist in the back?

Eugene Khoza 1:15:02 No.

Speaker 1:15:03 You, you do.

Trevor Noah 1:15:04 I do, in your-

Eugene Khoza 1:15:04 Why?

Trevor Noah 1:15:04 Okay.

Speaker 1:15:05 You do. You have to.

Trevor Noah 1:15:05 No, no, these are our rules. It's fine.

Speaker 1:15:07 Yes, you have to.

Eugene Khoza 1:15:07 Wait, but I need to ... But I'm gonna get involved too-

Speaker 1:15:08 You can't go meet yourself

Eugene Khoza 1:15:10 ... so I need to-

Speaker 1:15:10 Let's just go say you can't go.

Trevor Noah 1:15:11 No, that's why I'm trying to establish the rules.

Eugene Khoza 1:15:12 Okay. Okay.

Trevor Noah 1:15:12 Okay. So in your rules, I do exist there.

Eugene Khoza 1:15:15 Oh, okay.

Speaker 1:15:16 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:15:16 Then that changes quite a few things.

Eugene Khoza 1:15:18 You see, I knew this was gonna happen.

Trevor Noah 1:15:19 Uh-

Eugene Khoza 1:15:19 He added a complication.

Speaker 1:15:20 You could mail yourself a letter and say, "Buy Apple."

Eugene Khoza 1:15:22 There we go.

Speaker 1:15:22 But go ahead.

Trevor Noah 1:15:23 You see, I wouldn't ... You see, I, honestly-

Speaker 1:15:25 I'm just saying you could do that.

Trevor Noah 1:15:27 Can I tell you, I spend an, an inordinate amount of time thinking of time travel.

Speaker 1:15:31 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:15:32 And I worry about it because, for me at least, is I go, I don't know what the butterfly effect would be of changing any one aspect of my life.

Speaker 1:15:40 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:15:40 And I wor- so you, you, you're saying-

Eugene Khoza 1:15:42 But it wouldn't matter, because you're not coming back-

Trevor Noah 1:15:44 No

Eugene Khoza 1:15:44 ... into the present. So whatever change happens is what is.

Trevor Noah 1:15:47 Yes, but my point is, I don't know how that turns out. So to your point-

Speaker 1:15:50 Right

Trevor Noah 1:15:50 ... let's say I tell myself at a young age, "Buy Apple stock." First of all, I'll go, "What is Apple? What is stock?"

Speaker 1:15:56 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:15:56 "What is buying? What is money?"

Speaker 1:15:58 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:15:58 Like-

Eugene Khoza 1:15:59 Don't go too far back.

Trevor Noah 1:16:00 No, but no, no, but even at that age, I didn't ... I remember, yo, let me tell you how crazy. I remember when Alibaba was listing.

Speaker 1:16:05 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:16:06 It was, it had its IPO.

Speaker 1:16:07 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:16:07 I was in South Africa. For some reason, I had been deep in reading about Alibaba as a tech company.

Speaker 1:16:12 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:16:12 And then I went to, like, a bunch of people in banking and stuff, and I was like, "Can I, can I get in on the IPO?"

Speaker 1:16:18 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:16:18 And people were like, "What are you talking about?"

Speaker 1:16:20 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:16:20 I said, "There's a Alibaba IPO."

Speaker 1:16:22 Alibaba, mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:16:22 And they're like, "Eh, baba. What are you talking about?" [laughs]

Speaker 1:16:25 So you didn't get in, mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:16:26 No, a- and I, I didn't. And now we, we have, like, now you can buy, you know, derivatives-

Speaker 1:16:31 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Trevor Noah 1:16:31 ... shares, stocks.

Speaker 1:16:32 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:16:32 You can do different things that you could back-

Speaker 1:16:33 Right

Trevor Noah 1:16:33 ... than you could back then.

Speaker 1:16:35 Right.

Trevor Noah 1:16:35 But what I mean is, I don't know, I go back and, and then what hap- ... You know what I might do? I might use my time travel powers-

Speaker 1:16:40 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:16:40 ... to go back-

Eugene Khoza 1:16:42 Five minutes from now-

Trevor Noah 1:16:43 Like a, like a few hours

Eugene Khoza 1:16:43 ... and fix this conversation.

Speaker 1:16:44 Oh, hours. Oh, nice. Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:16:45 H- how about that? Maybe five minutes from now.

Speaker 1:16:47 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:16:48 Before you edit it-

Trevor Noah 1:16:48 Like, I'm gonna go five minutes back?

Eugene Khoza 1:16:49 Yes, because-

Speaker 1:16:49 Yeah

Eugene Khoza 1:16:49 ... you edit the complication of am I there, am I not?

Speaker 1:16:52 Yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:16:52 What is money?

Trevor Noah 1:16:53 You know what I would go back to-

Eugene Khoza 1:16:54 What is life?

Trevor Noah 1:16:54 ... if I could time travel?

Eugene Khoza 1:16:55 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:16:55 I would go back to the moment when I met you.

Eugene Khoza 1:16:58 Oh, Trevor.

Speaker 1:16:58 Oh my God.

Trevor Noah 1:16:59 That's the moment I would go back to.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:00 I would, that's what I would have chosen as well.

Speaker 1:17:01 Wow, that's a great time travel.

Trevor Noah 1:17:01 That's the moment I would go back to.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:03 Thank you so much.

Speaker 1:17:04 Wow.

Trevor Noah 1:17:04 And then I would turn around and not walk into that building, Eugene.

Speaker 1:17:07 Oh, wow.

Trevor Noah 1:17:07 'Cause I'd be like, "This person is gonna roast me for the rest of my life."

Speaker 1:17:09 Ah, that's good. No, you wouldn't.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:11 Sure.

Speaker 1:17:11 You'd be so sad.

Trevor Noah 1:17:12 That's when I would go back to.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:13 You would never. You would never.

Trevor Noah 1:17:14 No, I would never. I would never erase this.

Speaker 1:17:15 It's not that crazy.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:15 That's not who you are.

Speaker 1:17:15 I would literally go back and meet Jesus.

Trevor Noah 1:17:18 Wow.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:19 Would he know-

Speaker 1:17:19 The, the historical

Eugene Khoza 1:17:20 ... he's Jesus at the time, or-

Speaker 1:17:20 I don't know

Eugene Khoza 1:17:21 ... Jesus knew he was Jesus?

Speaker 1:17:21 I'd need to find out.

Trevor Noah 1:17:22 Jesus knew he was Jesus.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:23 No, but there was times where-

Speaker 1:17:24 Maybe

Eugene Khoza 1:17:25 ... people have been saying he didn't know he was-

Trevor Noah 1:17:26 No, but Jesus knew he was Jesus.

Speaker 1:17:27 We don't know. We don't know.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:27 Where he was rolling with his uncle-

Speaker 1:17:29 I would, I would like to find out

Eugene Khoza 1:17:29 ... going to other places and-

Trevor Noah 1:17:30 So you would go, what age Jesus would you want to go back to meet?

Eugene Khoza 1:17:32 Yeah.

Speaker 1:17:33 Right as he started. Right?

Eugene Khoza 1:17:34 Started being Jesus?

Speaker 1:17:35 Jesus.

Trevor Noah 1:17:35 You could have been then one of the wise men, 'cause that's basically what they did.

Speaker 1:17:38 They don't let men, they didn't let men be that. Women did.

Trevor Noah 1:17:40 We don't know that they let men or not men.

Speaker 1:17:41 You're right. The Gnostic Gospels. I got it.

Trevor Noah 1:17:43 Yes.

Speaker 1:17:43 Right. Okay.

Trevor Noah 1:17:44 Also, we don't even know what they-

Eugene Khoza 1:17:45 Wait, wait, wait. They don't let who?

Speaker 1:17:46 Women.

Trevor Noah 1:17:47 'Cause, 'cause here's the thing. There's two things.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:48 Wasn't Mary Magdalene?

Trevor Noah 1:17:49 Yeah, but no, no.

Speaker 1:17:50 No, she was not a whore. She was not.

Trevor Noah 1:17:51 [laughs]

Speaker 1:17:52 She was not.

Trevor Noah 1:17:52 There's, there's two things-

Speaker 1:17:52 That was men writing the history.

Trevor Noah 1:17:54 There's two things we also forget, though.

Eugene Khoza 1:17:55 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:17:55 And one of the big ones-

Eugene Khoza 1:17:57 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:17:57 ... is we forget how many times in the Bible it was possible to just, like, cover yourself in a certain way and people were like, "Oh, you're a man," or, "You're a woman."

Speaker 1:18:04 Right.

Trevor Noah 1:18:04 So you could've-

Speaker 1:18:04 Actually-

Trevor Noah 1:18:05 You could've snuck in

Speaker 1:18:05 ... the Gnostic Gospels show that there were a lot of women involved.

Trevor Noah 1:18:07 There you go.

Speaker 1:18:07 It's just the ones that survived are the ones we're-

Trevor Noah 1:18:10 Yes

Speaker 1:18:10 ... using as a history survived.

Eugene Khoza 1:18:11 Ah.

Speaker 1:18:11 So I would, I would wanna meet Jesus. Oh, I, most sig- probably one of the more significant people.

Trevor Noah 1:18:16 But what age?

Eugene Khoza 1:18:16 Formative years or when he's flipping tables at the temple?

Speaker 1:18:18 Right when, right when ... The historical. I'm talking about the historical Jesus. The, like, who was this person? And to meet that person.

Trevor Noah 1:18:25 Oh, you don't mean Bible Jesus.

Speaker 1:18:26 Well-

Trevor Noah 1:18:27 You mean, like-

Speaker 1:18:27 ... is Bible Jesus histor- I'd wanna see. Like, what happened? I'd like to see it. I'd like to see what happened.

Trevor Noah 1:18:33 And what age are you thinking?

Speaker 1:18:34 Whatever, 20 ... What was he, 20-

Trevor Noah 1:18:36 20.

Speaker 1:18:37 20, right?

Trevor Noah 1:18:37 Hmm.

Speaker 1:18:37 25, 24, 23.

Eugene Khoza 1:18:39 Yes, 'cause, uh-

Speaker 1:18:40 The historical Jesus.

Trevor Noah 1:18:40 Would you tell Jesus that he's gonna get crucified?

Speaker 1:18:43 No.

Trevor Noah 1:18:44 Damn.

Speaker 1:18:44 No.

Eugene Khoza 1:18:45 Would you like to meet confident Jesus or-

Speaker 1:18:47 Confident Jesus. There was always a confident Jesus

Eugene Khoza 1:18:49 ... or insecure Jesus? 'Cause there was Jesus where he was like, "No, no, no."

Trevor Noah 1:18:51 No, there was Jesus where he was doubting.

Speaker 1:18:52 Yeah, yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:18:53 Yeah, yeah. There was Jesus who was doubting.

Speaker 1:18:54 Oh, in the thing?

Eugene Khoza 1:18:55 Yeah.

Speaker 1:18:55 Oh, like he couldn't go to the garden and go, "Run, run." [laughs] I'd get out.

Eugene Khoza 1:19:01 [laughs]

Speaker 1:19:01 Get out.

Eugene Khoza 1:19:02 Then he turns to Joseph and goes, "You're not my dad."

Speaker 1:19:04 That guy's not your friend.

Eugene Khoza 1:19:06 [laughs]

Speaker 1:19:06 I would actually like go to history in lots of places. Like, "Caesar, don't go to work today."

Eugene Khoza 1:19:12 [laughs]

Speaker 1:19:13 Just let me give you-

Eugene Khoza 1:19:14 Go to Cleopatra. Go get in the carpet.

Speaker 1:19:15 Get-

Eugene Khoza 1:19:16 Go get [laughs]

Speaker 1:19:16 Get on that chariot and head out of Rome

Eugene Khoza 1:19:18 [laughs] Oh, man.

Speaker 1:19:18 Just go.

Eugene Khoza 1:19:19 Just going back and, like, spoiling every moment-

Speaker 1:19:21 Isn't that funny?

Eugene Khoza 1:19:21 ... from history.

Speaker 1:19:22 I know, like, "Lincoln, don't go to the theater."

Eugene Khoza 1:19:25 [laughs]

Speaker 1:19:25 "Don't go to the theater tonight."

Eugene Khoza 1:19:27 You just go, go to Abraham Lincoln-

Speaker 1:19:29 "Stay home with your crazy wife"

Eugene Khoza 1:19:29 ... and just spoil the end of the, of the play. Just be like, "Oh, in the end of the play they find out that, uh, the woman had another family."

Speaker 1:19:36 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eugene Khoza 1:19:36 "Oh, why did you do that? I don't wanna watch it anymore." Yes.

Speaker 1:19:39 But then nobody could do the, "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?" You know? They, they wouldn't do that joke.

Trevor Noah 1:19:44 Oh, we lose, we lose a great joke.

Speaker 1:19:45 We lose a great joke.

Trevor Noah 1:19:46 That's a tough one.

Speaker 1:19:46 That would be, wouldn't that be funny to wander through history [laughs] and be like, "Leave. Don't go to the theater."

Trevor Noah 1:19:51 It would be so cool to do.

Speaker 1:19:53 "Stay home."

Trevor Noah 1:19:53 I mean, I- w- if we don't think about what it would cause, it would be really fun to just go and do it.

Speaker 1:19:57 Amelia Earhart, don't get on that plane.

Trevor Noah 1:19:58 Yeah.

Speaker 1:19:59 Don't get on that-

Trevor Noah 1:19:59 Just go

Trevor Noah 1:20:00 like-

Speaker 1:20:00 Just don't. Just don't

Trevor Noah 1:20:00 ... what do women think about Amelia Earhart? Do they think-

Speaker 1:20:03 What women think?

Trevor Noah 1:20:04 All of them

Speaker 1:20:04 We got together last week [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:20:06 [laughs]

Speaker 1:20:06 We like her.

Eugene Khoza 1:20:07 You know more women than me. [laughs]

Speaker 1:20:08 Um, I don't know. I don't think people think of Amelia Earhart that much.

Trevor Noah 1:20:12 We think about her a lot.

Speaker 1:20:12 I guess they probably think she's really interesting.

Trevor Noah 1:20:14 Eugene thinks about her all the time.

Speaker 1:20:15 Do you?

Eugene Khoza 1:20:15 Yeah, I think I actually have a crush on Amelia Earhart.

Speaker 1:20:17 She's an amazing, amazing character.

Trevor Noah 1:20:17 Amelia Earhart is Eugene's Roman Empire.

Speaker 1:20:18 I think she's a little more complex than people... You know, they have this vision of her, but actually she had a lot of, some not so great things about her. I mean, she was complex. She was very complex.

Trevor Noah 1:20:28 She was a human being.

Speaker 1:20:30 She was a human being.

Eugene Khoza 1:20:30 What, what would you, where would you go in time? Shoo, I would, uh, I would go hang out with David Chase when he was still thinking about making-

Speaker 1:20:41 Oh, wow. Okay

Eugene Khoza 1:20:42 ... The Sopranos. I would just be his friend.

Speaker 1:20:45 Oh, okay.

Eugene Khoza 1:20:45 I would just contribute. Because I love, I, I, because I love The Sopranos so much, I even watched how they were doing the casting-

Speaker 1:20:54 Mm

Eugene Khoza 1:20:54 ... and who would've gotten which role-

Speaker 1:20:55 Oh, cool

Eugene Khoza 1:20:55 ... before which role, and he was at the precipice of s- making some of the best television.

Speaker 1:20:59 Oh, I love that. My son loves The Sopranos.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:02 I love The Sopranos.

Speaker 1:21:02 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:21:02 You don't, you don't worry that you would throw it off by being there knowing what it's going to be?

Eugene Khoza 1:21:05 What do I care? It's me time traveling. Yeah, now I must care about everyone's feelings, yeah.

Speaker 1:21:10 It's like-

Trevor Noah 1:21:10 But then there's no Sopranos is what I'm saying. So you don't care about-

Eugene Khoza 1:21:12 Then there won't be The Sopranos.

Speaker 1:21:13 It's like Back to the Future.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:14 Yes.

Speaker 1:21:14 Here you go, Biff. Or no, or whatever his name is.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:16 [laughs] Because every time after I land in LaGuardia, I go doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

Trevor Noah 1:21:20 Yeah, you do. And then that's why immigration always pulls him aside.

Speaker 1:21:23 Some, every now and then I go, I go back in time and I'd say yes to those job offers at tech companies. Like-

Trevor Noah 1:21:28 Why, yeah, why did you never get into tech?

Speaker 1:21:30 I don't know. There were so many of them, so it must've been-

Eugene Khoza 1:21:32 You go back and say yes?

Speaker 1:21:33 I might be, 'cause then I would have a billions, billions of dollars right now.

Trevor Noah 1:21:37 Oh, so you won't-

Speaker 1:21:37 And then I would be able to be like, "Really?"

Eugene Khoza 1:21:39 You would get into France drunk.

Speaker 1:21:41 Like, you know.

Trevor Noah 1:21:41 No, but actually let's talk a little bit a- about that.

Eugene Khoza 1:21:43 Yeah.

Speaker 1:21:43 I might.

Trevor Noah 1:21:43 Like, you, you were, you were in tech-

Speaker 1:21:45 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:21:46 ... when tech was still like, it was really-

Speaker 1:21:49 Small

Trevor Noah 1:21:49 ... the wild, wild west.

Speaker 1:21:50 Yeah, no, I was offered a job at AOL in the early days. I was offered a job at Facebook in the very early days, at Google in the very early days, and Amazon in the very early days.

Trevor Noah 1:22:00 Do you know how many billions you've just told us?

Speaker 1:22:01 That's correct, and I kind of would be like, "Interesting." Like, it would be a really, it would be a, it would be a different world. Like, I would've used it politically for sure. Like-

Eugene Khoza 1:22:09 But let's pretend we're 10 years from now and we're going back in time. Which decisions would you make now to get us wealthy?

Speaker 1:22:17 To get us wealthy?

Eugene Khoza 1:22:18 Yeah.

Speaker 1:22:18 Uh, probably-

Eugene Khoza 1:22:18 What, what will we buy now?

Speaker 1:22:19 See, I'm gonna do it again. I'm gonna fuck up again, but, um, I'd probably do some- something in AI in an area I knew about. Like, what... It's gon- it'll be har- it'll be hard to know which one's gonna win though, right? You never know which one's gonna win.

Trevor Noah 1:22:32 Yes. We don't know until it happens.

Speaker 1:22:33 There were, there were seven or s- eight Googles before there was Google, right?

Eugene Khoza 1:22:36 Oh, really?

Speaker 1:22:36 There was Excite, there was, there was, um, there was a bunch of them that were all search engines. They just didn't wor- I'm blanking on all the names. I covered them all, but there were a lot like Google before there was Google.

Trevor Noah 1:22:48 I, I'm still-

Speaker 1:22:50 There was MySpace-

Trevor Noah 1:22:51 ... trying to understand though

Speaker 1:22:51 ... before there was Facebook. There was MySpace.

Trevor Noah 1:22:53 Yeah, yeah. But I, but I-

Speaker 1:22:53 And, and be- before that there was another one, and I'm blanking on that name, but there was, there was a bunch of them.

Trevor Noah 1:22:58 Yeah, but I wanna know why, like, you love tech.

Speaker 1:23:01 Right.

Trevor Noah 1:23:01 You still love tech.

Speaker 1:23:02 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:23:04 And you kept say... Do you know why you said no?

Speaker 1:23:07 Saying... Well, you know, at one point, I think it was Te- Ted Leonsis who was a, he's now a billionaire and he, he owns a bunch of teams and so, and he sent, used to send me the amount of money I would've had had I taken his job [laughs]

Eugene Khoza 1:23:17 Damn.

Trevor Noah 1:23:18 Oh, just like trolling of you.

Speaker 1:23:18 His favorite trolling.

Trevor Noah 1:23:20 Damn.

Speaker 1:23:20 But he doesn't do that so much anymore. But, um, w- I, I think I, at one point I said to one of them, I think it might have been at Amazon, they wanted an editor job. They had an editor job free, and I said, "Why would I wanna do that? I work for The Washington Post." Something like that. I think I, I liked what I did and I, you know, at some point-

Trevor Noah 1:23:38 Where was this job?

Speaker 1:23:39 At A- that was an Amazon job I think.

Trevor Noah 1:23:41 That is crazy irony.

Speaker 1:23:42 You know, one of the-

Trevor Noah 1:23:43 What a loop

Speaker 1:23:43 ... what a-

Trevor Noah 1:23:44 Why would I want this job at Amazon? I work at The Washington Post.

Speaker 1:23:46 At The Wa- and I, and I now work-

Trevor Noah 1:23:47 And then Amazon goes and buys The Washington Post

Speaker 1:23:48 ... and then Amazon buys, well, Jeff does.

Trevor Noah 1:23:49 It's almost like Jeff Be- Bezos heard that.

Speaker 1:23:51 I could, I could have bought the Wa- I still could buy The Washington Post.

Eugene Khoza 1:23:52 And then all you hear is doo, doo, doo, and you walk up this-

Speaker 1:23:55 I think I was just, I, I think there is a point where there is a number where

Speaker 1:24:00 more money doesn't matter.

Trevor Noah 1:24:01 Yeah.

Speaker 1:24:01 It really does.

Trevor Noah 1:24:02 Absolutely.

Speaker 1:24:02 It doesn't make you any happier, right? Unless you wanna buy France and buy everybody a, a g- bo- glass of wine-