Malala Yousafzai: The Real Malala - Jeans, Crushes, & Healing

Speaker 0:00 Malala defied a ban prohibiting girls from attending school, posting an anonymous blog about the restrictive life for women and children in Pakistan.

Speaker 0:08 It made her a target. Taliban militants shot her in the head on her school bus.

Speaker 0:14 She was flown to the UK for medical treatment and has lived there ever since.

Speaker 0:18 She has since become the youngest-ever Nobel Peace Prize winner and a fierce advocate for the rights of girls and women around the world.

Malala Yousafzai 0:24 I had a, a historic moment here when I spoke at the UN. One child, one teacher, one book, and one pen can change the world.

Speaker 0:34 Malala Yousafzai taking to Instagram to celebrate completing her degree in philosophy, politics, and economics at Oxford. Malala Yousafzai is working on a new memoir. It will be her most personal book yet. [upbeat music]

Trevor Noah 0:55 This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. [upbeat music] Where are you flying from? How are you?

Malala Yousafzai 1:10 London. I'm good.

Trevor Noah 1:11 Like now?

Malala Yousafzai 1:12 Yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:13 Oh, but you get time back. I like that.

Malala Yousafzai 1:15 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:15 I don't know if you do.

Malala Yousafzai 1:16 No, I, I like when I have extra hours.

Trevor Noah 1:18 Yeah, I feel like I'm time traveling.

Malala Yousafzai 1:20 I am, I am not, uh, a mor- like I, I like just more, more hours to live. I like the days to be longer. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:28 [laughs] I mean, that's one way to think of it.

Malala Yousafzai 1:31 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:31 I always just, I just feel like I've cheated in a, like a-

Malala Yousafzai 1:35 No, it feels really good. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:36 Yeah, yeah. I feel like I've cheated the system.

Malala Yousafzai 1:37 Yes, I'm like, "It was such a productive day. How did I manage so many things?"

Trevor Noah 1:41 [laughs] Yes.

Malala Yousafzai 1:41 It's like you had, like seven extra hours.

Trevor Noah 1:43 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:43 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:43 Yeah, it's exactly that feeling. Okay. So London, and then how long are you here for?

Malala Yousafzai 1:46 A week.

Trevor Noah 1:47 Okay.

Malala Yousafzai 1:48 Yeah. And then-

Trevor Noah 1:50 And then from here back to London.

Malala Yousafzai 1:51 Yes, but then I go to Egypt to visit some of the projects we are supporting-

Trevor Noah 1:56 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:56 ... for the Gaza refugees, uh, Palestinian refugees. And then we go to Nigeria for our board meeting, and then I come back to London, do more press. Then I go to LA, do more press.

Trevor Noah 2:09 Wow.

Malala Yousafzai 2:09 New York, more

Malala Yousafzai 2:10 press. And then the book is finally out, and then I start the tour. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 2:14 Then you start the book tour.

Malala Yousafzai 2:15 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 2:16 I think you'll, you'll enjoy the book t- you, I mean-

Malala Yousafzai 2:18 Yes

Trevor Noah 2:18 ... you, you've done them before.

Malala Yousafzai 2:19 Uh, not like a big tour, no.

Trevor Noah 2:21 No?

Malala Yousafzai 2:21 This is my first proper book tour.

Trevor Noah 2:23 Oh. Did you en-

Malala Yousafzai 2:24 I had done one other

Trevor Noah 2:24 ... did you enjoy the last one that you did?

Malala Yousafzai 2:26 The last one, I was still in school.

Trevor Noah 2:28 So you couldn't really, like ...

Malala Yousafzai 2:29 So I did two events.

Trevor Noah 2:31 Oh, no, that's not-

Malala Yousafzai 2:32 Big events

Trevor Noah 2:32 ... that's not a tour then

Malala Yousafzai 2:32 ... and then, no, that's not a tour.

Trevor Noah 2:33 That's definitely not a tour. You know what I like about the book tour the most is, uh, look, I don't know, I don't know how you'll feel about, but I, I feel like that's where you, you reap the reward, actually, for the first time of the book.

Malala Yousafzai 2:45 Yeah. I'm excited. I mean, I haven't experienced it yet. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 2:48 Like most of, 'cause I've-

Malala Yousafzai 2:50 Yeah

Trevor Noah 2:50 ... uh, f- my experience was you write the book, you write the book, you write the book, and then for me at least, it was, "What am I doing? This is taking forever. This is so hard."

Malala Yousafzai 2:58 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 2:58 Then the editor comes back with notes, and then you gotta do more writing. Then you're counting w- then you're not, then you're like, what do you leave out? What do you put in? What, it's just this process, process, pro- finally, it's done, and then it's like, what cover do you want? What ... You know what I mean, the process, process, process, process. And then it's only when you're on tour for the first time with the book that you see people, like interact with it.

Malala Yousafzai 3:17 Yes.

Trevor Noah 3:17 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 3:18 Yeah, and then there's this time before the release when you're doing press.

Trevor Noah 3:21 About the book.

Malala Yousafzai 3:22 About the book. So you ha- y- you know, you're like, "The book is not out yet, but let me tell you everything about the book." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 3:27 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 3:27 And I find it really awkward. I'm like, "It's a secret, but you all need to know about it."

Trevor Noah 3:32 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 3:34 But I was so surprised to find you downstairs, uh-

Trevor Noah 3:37 What do you mean?

Malala Yousafzai 3:38 Because [laughs] the first time when we met for The Daily Show-

Trevor Noah 3:42 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 3:43 ... you were very late.

Trevor Noah 3:44 Was I?

Malala Yousafzai 3:45 I, yes, I was waiting [laughs] in the studio.

Trevor Noah 3:47 Sounds like me. Sounds like me.

Malala Yousafzai 3:48 I, I waited for a very long time. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 3:50 Oh, yeah, yeah. No, so y- I wonder what year you came in. So when, you know-

Malala Yousafzai 3:54 2019, beginning, maybe

Trevor Noah 3:55 ... can I tell you, that was like, those were like some of the hardest years of my life, and one of the things that always would get me at The Daily Show was you're trying to make a show.

Malala Yousafzai 4:04 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 4:05 And you're trying to do it about the news, and then there were the years when, I mean, now we're back in the years, but it was the years when Donald Trump is now in power.

Malala Yousafzai 4:12 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 4:12 Right? So the way The Daily Show used to work with Jon Stewart was they would watch the news the night before.

Malala Yousafzai 4:18 Yes.

Trevor Noah 4:19 And then the day of, they would make the show, and then you would put it out.

Malala Yousafzai 4:22 Yes.

Trevor Noah 4:23 And then when I became the host, when Trump came into power, the news of the night before meant nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Malala Yousafzai 4:29 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 4:30 And so sometimes it would be 2:00 PM after rehearsal, we're literally done, and then people would come in and go, "Everything you wrote is trash. Everything's wrong. They've changed this. This is not hap- there's a new thing."

Malala Yousafzai 4:42 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 4:42 "Uh, Trump spoke on the White House lawn. There's a new law they put," and then we'd have to rewrite the show completely. And so oftentimes it meant whoever was sitting in the back waiting for us ... Were you watching it on, like the screen? Like I'm trying to think of where you were.

Malala Yousafzai 4:55 In the waiting room.

Trevor Noah 4:56 Oh, yeah, in the wa- in the, in the wa-

Malala Yousafzai 4:57 Yes.

Trevor Noah 4:57 But we had snacks.

Malala Yousafzai 4:59 You had snacks. That is true.

Trevor Noah 5:00 I had, like delicious snacks.

Malala Yousafzai 5:01 Delicious snacks.

Trevor Noah 5:01 I tried to make sure there were as many delicious snacks as possible.

Malala Yousafzai 5:04 Yes. Yes. It was a very nice, cozy space.

Trevor Noah 5:06 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 5:07 I enjoyed my time. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 5:08 Yeah. Well, this time I was on the street. Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 5:10 Yeah, but I was surprised to find you here. I was like, wait a second. He's not just waiting for me in the studio. He's waiting for me on the street to receive

Malala Yousafzai 5:17 me.

Trevor Noah 5:17 I mean, you are Malala. Where-

Malala Yousafzai 5:18 Thank you so much.

Trevor Noah 5:19 This is where, uh, you should be, in the streets waiting to receive the people.

Malala Yousafzai 5:22 Exactly.

Trevor Noah 5:22 There's also not as much money doing a podcast versus The Daily Show.

Malala Yousafzai 5:25 [laughs] Okay.

Trevor Noah 5:25 Yeah, and with The Daily Show, there's someone to do that. I just have to do it myself. Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 5:29 Understandable.

Trevor Noah 5:30 No, no. I, I, no, I like it. You know what it is? It's like, it's ... You know what? It's actually a perfect segue into, like what you said in the book. We very seldom get to think about the identities that we've adopted for, you know? Or, or-

Malala Yousafzai 5:44 Yes

Trevor Noah 5:44 ... the, the identities we've inherited because of things that have happened to us. And so mine, in a very different way to yours, people have an idea of me as a person, so they go, "You are like this." Some people think I'm, uh, v- very funny. Some people think I'm, like, o- only

Trevor Noah 6:00 funny even. Some people think I'm very serious. Some people think I'm only political. Uh, some people think I'm stupid. Uh, some people think I'm whatever. But I'm all those things. Do, do you know what I mean? And so in many ways, y- like the beginning of your book touched me, and I think it'll touch so many people because It starts in a place that personalizes your story i- in a way that honestly I didn't expect, and it's you lying in a hospital bed, people operating on you

Trevor Noah 6:30 because of a gunshot wound, and in that moment you've already inherited a story, and there's a journey that's been, that's been put forth for you. And so I, I wondered that. Like, when I was reading that I was going, "Oh, how am I like when I meet Malala? Am I- do I defer too much? Should I treat her more normally?" Then I'm like, "Ah, but I'm not gonna roast Malala." Is that, but do you roast people?

Malala Yousafzai 6:50 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 6:50 How do you ... Do you find that people are, like, are weird around you, for lack of a better term?

Malala Yousafzai 6:56 When people meet me, what shocks them most is that I'm funny. You know, for me, being funny, humor has been a process of healing, and I do not want to talk about [laughs] the, the difficult parts. And it's not that I feel uncomfortable talking about them. I easily can explain it to people what happened, and for me it's just a series of events that I'm telling.

Trevor Noah 7:22 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 7:22 I think it's a blessing for me that I do not remember the incident.

Trevor Noah 7:26 Huh.

Malala Yousafzai 7:27 But I do remember when I woke up and how I felt. I was grateful that I was alive, but I was in a hospital in Birmingham in the UK, not in my country anymore, and my parents were not there with me for 10 days. They joined after that.

Trevor Noah 7:42 Right.

Malala Yousafzai 7:42 So I had to figure out what was happening. Who are these strangers speaking in English? I had never traveled outside Pakistan, and I had to just process the fact that, yes, something horrible had happened, but I did not know what exactly. And, um, yeah, so, you know, this is a story I, I, I tell people. I can tell people about how long it took me to recover. I had to learn to, like, walk and talk again.

Trevor Noah 8:05 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 8:05 And, and, you know, and this was truly me. Like, for me, I thought this is, this is another life. I am reborn, and I felt it. Like, I couldn't even speak in the beginning. I couldn't even walk in the beginning.

Trevor Noah 8:20 Wow.

Malala Yousafzai 8:20 I felt like I was learning to crawl and to, to get up. So at that time my focus quickly shifted to the attention

Malala Yousafzai 8:31 that I was now receiving globally-

Trevor Noah 8:33 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 8:33 ... because of what had happened, and I was getting all of these requests like, "We want to write a book about your life. We want to make a documentary."

Trevor Noah 8:41 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 8:42 "You have to give your first speech at the UN." And that's the turn my life took, that in all of that I just forgot who I was actually meant to be before any of this had happened. Who was the Malala, the funny one who had a lot of friends, who was back in Pakistan. She was studious, but she was cheeky. All of that was gone, and I somehow just thought that, yes, I have lost a lot of things including joy, including the laughter, and I never thought I could, like, make a best friend or, you know, find love and, and just be like a normal person. [laughs] I thought life was now all about activism, so much that I thought it m- it meant sacrificing everything

Malala Yousafzai 9:22 else.

Trevor Noah 9:22 You know, there's something I think of when, when you say that. It reminds me of, um, South African activists.

Malala Yousafzai 9:27 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 9:27 You know, the people who fought for apartheid to end. And I often think about many of the stories that people would tell about the inner, like, the inner circles.

Malala Yousafzai 9:37 Yes.

Trevor Noah 9:37 You know, the Nelson Mandelas, the Walter Sisulus, the, like, whoever they were. And one of the big things that struck me was I thought to myself, activism, in my opinion, is trying to fight for something so that we can be.

Malala Yousafzai 9:53 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 9:54 You know? And if you're, if you're stuck in the activism, there's no being.

Malala Yousafzai 9:57 No.

Trevor Noah 9:57 You know? Now it's like, "This is w- this is all. I'm a fighter. I'm fighting, I'm fighting," and we forget the being. And when, when, when you said that I was like, oh yeah, like, Malala being mischievous is something that no one ever thinks of. Mala- I remember the first time you roasted me, actually.

Malala Yousafzai 10:11 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 10:11 I didn't know what was happening.

Malala Yousafzai 10:13 I don't remember either. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 10:14 No, no, no. I remember the first time you roasted me. I-

Malala Yousafzai 10:16 Yes

Trevor Noah 10:16 ... I, I rem- my, my brain short-circuited. I, I, I made what I call the Mandela mistake.

Malala Yousafzai 10:21 Yes.

Trevor Noah 10:21 So, um, Nelson Mandela had been President of South Africa. Obviously, 1994 he becomes president, right?

Malala Yousafzai 10:29 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 10:29 And I think this was after his presidency. He got honored with a c- with, um, a coin that had his face on it.

Malala Yousafzai 10:36 Yes.

Trevor Noah 10:36 And this was, like, the first time. Imagine, first Black president, first democratically elected president, but now they're also putting his face on money.

Malala Yousafzai 10:44 Yes.

Trevor Noah 10:45 And there was a press conference that was being held, and we got invited to this event, and I distinctly remember a journalist, I think they were from the UK, and they asked him a very serious question. Very, like, v- and I mean, he's like, you know, he's Nelson Mandela.

Malala Yousafzai 10:59 Yes.

Trevor Noah 11:00 You know? Very funny guy, though, privately, people who knew him, and even publicly sometimes. But the, the journalist said, "Mr. Mandela, how does it feel to live in a country where you were once considered a terrorist-

Malala Yousafzai 11:13 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 11:13 ... and a person who was persona non grata, and now your face is on that same country's currency? How does it feel?" And he paused, and he goes, he's like, "That's how you know you've made it, when you have your own money."

Malala Yousafzai 11:29 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 11:29 And he's like, "No more socializing with poor people."

Malala Yousafzai 11:34 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 11:35 And I laughed.

Malala Yousafzai 11:37 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 11:38 And people turned to look 'cause I got the joke. Maybe it's the South Afri-

Malala Yousafzai 11:40 Yes

Trevor Noah 11:41 ... I, like, the rhythm I got. And people looked at me like, "Shh. Hey." And everyone in the room was just like, "Mm. Mm."

Malala Yousafzai 11:48 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 11:49 "Yes, so, so b-" I was like, "That's not an 'mm.'"

Malala Yousafzai 11:52 It's a joke. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 11:52 "The man made a joke. He's saying that he's made it now-

Malala Yousafzai 11:54 Yeah

Trevor Noah 11:54 ... so he doesn't have to hang out with the poors."

Malala Yousafzai 11:56 Yes.

Trevor Noah 11:56 Which is crazy 'cause Nelson Mandela-

Malala Yousafzai 11:58 Yes

Trevor Noah 11:58 ... would never say that. But I realize I did that with you. You, you roasted me. You said a few things, and I remember going, "Oh, I think this is a very powerful life lesson that Malala just shared with me," when it was just like, no, no, she's just roasting you.

Malala Yousafzai 12:11 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 12:12 Like, do, do you think people miss you because of that?

Malala Yousafzai 12:15 Yeah, I think, you know, that's how, uh- My image has been in, in the public, so when I have done interviews, yes, people are quite surprised. And I make a very basic joke, and people laugh out loud.

Trevor Noah 12:29 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 12:29 It's, like, a very basic joke. Like, you know, with your friend, Jon Stewart, I just made a joke about, like, you know, Birmingham being as beautiful as New Jersey, and he just could not stop laughing. 'Cause I was like, yeah, you know, you know, New Jersey. Anyway. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 12:46 Because, yeah, but I mean, it's because we don't expect it to come from you.

Malala Yousafzai 12:49 I know.

Trevor Noah 12:49 You're like a saint.

Malala Yousafzai 12:50 I know, but I, I like being funny. I just, uh-

Trevor Noah 12:53 I like that for you

Malala Yousafzai 12:53 ... it's the most beautiful thing, you know, that we can laugh

Malala Yousafzai 12:56 together.

Trevor Noah 12:56 I really, I like that for you as well because it's, it's human. And the book is very human. Like, the story you're telling is, dare I say, is like Malala being messy.

Malala Yousafzai 13:05 Yeah, a bit. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 13:07 [laughs] My words, not yours. My words, not yours. But, like, uh, you know, you know, I was, I was looking through some of the, the, the parts that really stuck with me, and, and I was like, it's, it's amazing how this book feels to me like you, you're on this journey of reclaiming something that we as society never thought that we took from you, which was the fullness of who you are as a person. Not being one, not being the other. But it's like people made you hyper-visible, but then also-

Malala Yousafzai 13:36 Yeah

Trevor Noah 13:36 ... invisible at the same time.

Malala Yousafzai 13:38 I think that's a very good description of it. But I don't think it's fully society. I think you internalize it so much that-

Trevor Noah 13:46 Oh

Malala Yousafzai 13:46 ... you think that's who you are supposed to be. I feel that's what happened to me. A lot of friends [laughs] used to, like, joke that I was, um, more like Mother Teresa or a Dalai Lama, that I was supposed to live a life like that. So when I got this opportunity to be in college, and it's like a normal thing, right? Just going to university-

Trevor Noah 14:08 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 14:08 ... going to college.

Trevor Noah 14:09 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 14:09 But for me, it was a big deal because firstly, I was now not under the surveillance of my parents. You know, it's, it's a South Asian family.

Trevor Noah 14:21 Yeah, I think that's a-

Malala Yousafzai 14:22 And, and I could not even, like, go to a friend's gathering there because they were just too worried about my safety and just too scared about something happening.

Trevor Noah 14:30 Mm.

Malala Yousafzai 14:30 And I could not figure out what that something was gonna be. But I was supposed to be at home, and then at, you know, spend the rest of my day at school, and then be at these events, doing conferences and, uh, speeches and interviews. That was how my whole life was, being an activist and then this quiet student in a, in a classroom.

Trevor Noah 14:50 Right.

Malala Yousafzai 14:50 That when I was in university, I said, "Okay, the parents are not watching. Um, nobody's judging you 'cause nobody technically really knows you. And, uh, make as many friends as possible." And I was so glad that I changed myself a bit. At school, I was a very quiet person.

Trevor Noah 15:11 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 15:11 I had become a quiet person in the UK because I was like, you know-

Trevor Noah 15:16 It's school

Malala Yousafzai 15:16 ... I don't know how to fit in.

Trevor Noah 15:17 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 15:17 It's, I'm, I'm a latecomer. I did not make friends on time, and I just only had one best friend. So in college, I had one goal, to make as many friends as possible. I was saying hello to everybody. It sometimes felt awkward, but I said, "Don't worry about it." Um, and, and it changed everything for me because I made so many friends-

Trevor Noah 15:38 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 15:38 ... who are now friends with me for life. They have changed my life completely. I found safety and comfort-

Trevor Noah 15:47 Hmm

Malala Yousafzai 15:48 ... among them.

Trevor Noah 15:49 It, it also makes me feel like you, you claimed something that you had lost that people didn't necessarily realize. And I, I noticed that, you know, when you're telling your story, I found it beautiful that you went backwards in time to reclaim beauty that I think most people wouldn't have assumed existed in your life.

Malala Yousafzai 16:07 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 16:08 You know? Like, when I think of the story of Malala as it was told in the world, it seemed very much like, oh, she's been rescued. She's been rescued from everything. Thank goodness, Malala, now you get to live in the West. What a beautiful

Trevor Noah 16:19 life. Now you have friends. Now you have a future. Now you have hope. You have dreams. You have beauty. And yet in, in the book, you go backwards, and you painted pictures that made me go like, "I need to go to Pakistan."

Malala Yousafzai 16:31 Yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 16:31 "I need to go see these valleys. I need to eat these fruits."

Malala Yousafzai 16:34 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 16:34 "I need to travel through these places." Like, what do you think, or why do you think that was so important for you to do, to, to, like, paint those images as vividly as you did as the beginning, as opposed to the beginning that we know?

Malala Yousafzai 16:46 So when I joined university, I still had not been back to Pakistan. Those memories from my home stayed with me, and that's how I felt a connection to home.

Trevor Noah 16:57 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 16:58 Because I felt like there was, there was this big disconnection. I could not really connect with that old life, and it was purely these memories, like thinking about my friends, sometimes talking to my old school best friend, Muniba, and sometimes just opening Google Maps and zooming in on, on the street and looking at the rivers and the mountains and thinking about the time I had spent there as a child with friends, giggling, laughing. And sometimes I would question myself if that was all real.

Trevor Noah 17:26 Wow.

Malala Yousafzai 17:27 And why have I ended up in a, in a place, and why can't I go back? So, um, it was, um, around springtime in my first year of university when we were on our Easter break-

Trevor Noah 17:38 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 17:38 ... that I told my dad, "We have to go back to Pakistan. I have to go see my friends, see my hometown, see my relatives because I am not feeling okay. I feel incomplete. I think it's, it's affecting me." Um, I'm ... And it's, you know, when you feel like this is the last chance that you could see your home or your loved ones.

Trevor Noah 17:59 Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine.

Malala Yousafzai 18:00 And it just felt that, um, I may not get another chance. It always kept getting delayed, and I said, "There will always be an excuse. There's always, like, something happening in the country."

Trevor Noah 18:10 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 18:10 The country's beautiful, but there's always something happening-

Trevor Noah 18:12 Yeah, yeah

Malala Yousafzai 18:13 ... with politics. So I said, you know, "It will somehow, like, never be the right time, but We, we have to go regardless. And we went there, and that was such a fulfilling journey.

Trevor Noah 18:26 It's beautiful.

Malala Yousafzai 18:27 We met our friends and family.

Trevor Noah 18:28 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 18:29 Uh, and it was, it was strange. It was, it was, like, comforting. It was all of these feelings were there, and, and I, and I'm so glad that we did it. Uh, I met my school best friend, and, like, you know, I- and I could just see how the friends connected with me, uh, the most because for them, it was all of those childhood memories that were coming back.

Trevor Noah 18:51 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 18:51 Like, you know, how cheeky we were and [laughs]

Trevor Noah 18:53 They, they keep-

Malala Yousafzai 18:53 Yeah

Trevor Noah 18:53 ... a piece of you. That's what I always think.

Malala Yousafzai 18:55 Yes.

Trevor Noah 18:55 Like, you know, I know you were a Twilight fan, but, like, for me, it was, it was, like, Harry Potter was really formative.

Malala Yousafzai 19:01 Yes.

Trevor Noah 19:01 And I, I, I always call my friends my horcruxes because I feel like your friends keep a piece of you no matter where they are.

Malala Yousafzai 19:07 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 19:08 And so when you go home, I mean, I experienced this in a very different way, but when I went back to South Africa, you know, like, after hosting The Daily Show, when I met with people who had always known me-

Malala Yousafzai 19:17 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 19:17 ... I realized that they contained parts of me-

Malala Yousafzai 19:19 Yes

Trevor Noah 19:19 ... that I hadn't been able to fully explore or enjoy or revel in.

Malala Yousafzai 19:23 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 19:23 Because people in America, not-

Malala Yousafzai 19:24 Yes

Trevor Noah 19:24 ... good or bad, they just didn't know that of me.

Malala Yousafzai 19:26 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 19:27 You know? So now I had people who could be like, "Oh, Naughty Trevor, you're back. You, you."

Malala Yousafzai 19:30 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 19:30 You know that, that thing.

Malala Yousafzai 19:31 No, suddenly you remember so much about yourself-

Trevor Noah 19:35 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 19:35 ... that you had forgotten. I was like, "No way that was me. Yes, I do remember."

Trevor Noah 19:40 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 19:41 You know, we were running in the field because we stole some plums from the-

Trevor Noah 19:45 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 19:45 ... other relative's, uh, you know, farm or-

Trevor Noah 19:48 Yeah, yeah

Malala Yousafzai 19:48 ... uh, and I was like, "Wow," like, there was once a part of me who was adventurous. And, and there are so many things that they remember.

Trevor Noah 19:57 Yes.

Malala Yousafzai 19:57 For them, it's still something that happened recently. It's so vivid in their mind.

Trevor Noah 20:02 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Malala Yousafzai 20:02 But you have forgotten things you remember

Malala Yousafzai 20:05 and are not that important to them. It's, like, really fascinating.

Trevor Noah 20:08 Did you, did you, how did it feel the first time you had a mango again, like a, like a mango from Pakistan? I ask this.

Malala Yousafzai 20:15 Yes.

Trevor Noah 20:15 Some people won't know. They'll be like, "This is the most random question ever." I have a fight with people all over the world, and I go-

Malala Yousafzai 20:21 Yes

Trevor Noah 20:21 ... "If you come from a place with mangoes-

Malala Yousafzai 20:23 Yes

Trevor Noah 20:23 ... there's a mango from your country-

Malala Yousafzai 20:25 Yes

Trevor Noah 20:25 ... that I argue is the best mango in the world."

Malala Yousafzai 20:27 It is.

Trevor Noah 20:27 Like, in South Africa, we have some of them.

Malala Yousafzai 20:29 Yes.

Trevor Noah 20:29 And then in Egypt, I've had amazing mangoes, and I'm trying to think of where else.

Malala Yousafzai 20:33 Brazil also have very-

Trevor Noah 20:33 Brazil also has some nice mangoes

Malala Yousafzai 20:34 ... yeah.

Trevor Noah 20:34 Mango's not bad in Brazil.

Malala Yousafzai 20:35 Yes.

Trevor Noah 20:35 But I was like-

Malala Yousafzai 20:36 Pakistani mangoes. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 20:37 Are they that good?

Malala Yousafzai 20:38 Pakistani mangoes are so good. They're not there for that long. The season is very, very short.

Trevor Noah 20:45 Oh, okay.

Malala Yousafzai 20:45 It's just a bit of the July, August time.

Trevor Noah 20:47 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 20:48 And-

Trevor Noah 20:48 So what are they, like, the little yellow ones or the-

Malala Yousafzai 20:50 No, big. Big, but-

Trevor Noah 20:52 Okay, I like that

Malala Yousafzai 20:52 ... like, yellow ones. And they're, like, so sweet. I can't even explain. You have to try them. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 20:57 I'll try. I'll try.

Malala Yousafzai 20:58 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 20:58 Did you go back and, like, what was the first thing you had that was just, I mean-

Malala Yousafzai 21:01 There was not the mango season because you can't even preserve those mangoes. It's not the same. But I had, like, apples and plums and peaches-

Trevor Noah 21:10 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 21:10 ... and apricots and grapes and... [laughs]

Trevor Noah 21:13 Just like, I, I-

Malala Yousafzai 21:14 And tea. We love chai. We love Pakistani tea-

Trevor Noah 21:18 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 21:18 ... which is, which has so much milk in it and sugar, and it's boiled for forever.

Trevor Noah 21:24 Is that the one where they pour, like-

Malala Yousafzai 21:26 Yeah

Trevor Noah 21:26 ... they pour again and again and again?

Malala Yousafzai 21:28 Yes, it's boiling and then just pouring it.

Trevor Noah 21:29 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Malala Yousafzai 21:30 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 21:30 Yes, yes, yes.

Malala Yousafzai 21:30 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 21:31 I think there's actually a place I went to in London where they do that, and it was the first time I had it. It was, it was amazing.

Malala Yousafzai 21:37 Yes, and then you dip your biscuit in it, [laughs] and then-

Trevor Noah 21:40 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 21:41 [laughs] And then you take a sip of tea, and that's the best feeling ever. And people do that on the hottest day [laughs] of, like, the summer.

Trevor Noah 21:49 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 21:49 Like, it's, it's afternoon, it's boiling hot, and people are like-

Trevor Noah 21:53 But it's the thing

Malala Yousafzai 21:53 ... "Let's have a cup of tea." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 21:55 You just-

Malala Yousafzai 21:55 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 21:56 I love, I, I genuinely, I, I loved how you, I don't know, it, it felt like, and I think a lot of people will feel this when they read the book, is, like, you, you possess this magical ability to not just weave the tapestry of what you're experiencing, but I feel like you invite the reader to explore their own.

Malala Yousafzai 22:16 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 22:16 'Cause as you were longing for home, I found myself longing for home.

Malala Yousafzai 22:20 Yes.

Trevor Noah 22:20 And then as you were re-enjoying it, I found myself appreciating the things that I, I re-enjoyed. And it, it's like, it's beautiful, and it was also real. You know, for instance, there, there's a, there's a, there's a story that you share, an anecdote that you share with, with your younger brother. And coming from South Africa, I think your story made me realize how strange our stories can be-

Malala Yousafzai 22:45 Yeah

Trevor Noah 22:45 ... but also how normal they are for everybody who's in them. You know, you tell the story of your younger brother digging a grave.

Malala Yousafzai 22:51 Yes.

Trevor Noah 22:53 But not in, like, a morbid way, but, like, how old, he's, like, five at the time, I think?

Malala Yousafzai 22:58 Yeah, he was very little, I mean. Um, and he was just, you know, digging a grave. And, like, kids just forgot what it was like to be a child.

Trevor Noah 23:12 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 23:12 And what does it mean for kids to play because they were hearing firing and helicopters and-

Trevor Noah 23:18 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 23:18 ... the news of people getting killed. Uh, so for them, it was just normal to be, like, digging the ground, and you ask them what they're doing, and he replied, "Digging a grave." And that's just a, a reality you accept. Even the, the, the police and thief game, I don't know, it's, like, different in every culture.

Trevor Noah 23:34 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 23:35 But we call it chor police, we call it.

Trevor Noah 23:36 Like robbers, banks and-

Malala Yousafzai 23:37 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 23:37 What do you call it in Pakistan?

Malala Yousafzai 23:38 Chor police.

Trevor Noah 23:39 Chor police.

Malala Yousafzai 23:39 Yes.

Trevor Noah 23:39 Okay. What is chor? What does that mean?

Malala Yousafzai 23:41 Chor is, like, the thief in police.

Trevor Noah 23:42 Okay, the thief.

Malala Yousafzai 23:42 Yes. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 23:42 Okay, okay, got it, got it, got it.

Malala Yousafzai 23:44 And people

Malala Yousafzai 23:45 switch it to, like, the Taliban and army.

Trevor Noah 23:47 Oh, damn.

Malala Yousafzai 23:48 So one kid would be the Taliban, the other kid would be then the army, and they would be, like, chasing each other. So it does affect kids a lot. And, you know, we were very young. I was 11 years old when the Taliban announced ban on girls education.

Trevor Noah 24:00 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 24:01 And I remember, like, those, uh, days when I felt like I could not have a future. That's how they had taken away all the rights from women and girls. And we even would walk to school, um, sometimes, like, in our home clothes-

Trevor Noah 24:17 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 24:17 ... not in our school uniforms. We would hide our bags under-

Trevor Noah 24:20 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 24:21 ... our hefty long scarf so they, they could not see it, and we still continued to go to the school. But we tried to hide it in every possible way we could so the Taliban, uh, could not see us. But that's how determined we were. And, you know, at 11 you just want to be a kid playing-

Trevor Noah 24:37 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 24:37 ... in school. Um, and here we were, like, sacrificing and, and, and fighting, like risking our lives for our education. Our lives just changed completely.

Trevor Noah 24:49 In those moments, it doesn't seem like you thought you were fighting for something much larger than yourself. You, you were doing the thing that I sometimes think we forget in society, which was you were the people that you now fight for.

Malala Yousafzai 25:04 Exactly.

Trevor Noah 25:04 And what ... I, I, I'm trying to figure out a more articulate way to say it, but I think in crafting your story and sharing it, you remind, you remind us that the people that we're often advocating for, they have agency.

Malala Yousafzai 25:18 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 25:18 You know, we oft- we often make it like-

Malala Yousafzai 25:20 Exactly

Trevor Noah 25:20 ... "Oh, we're giving to charity. We ... Oh, the, the, the homeless pers- do this for," and it's like, oh, no, no. You forget that a lot of the time the people in these situations-

Malala Yousafzai 25:28 Yes

Trevor Noah 25:28 ... they are the main character in their story, and they have-

Malala Yousafzai 25:30 Yeah

Trevor Noah 25:31 ... agency.

Malala Yousafzai 25:31 Yes. And we were not a nonprofit. We were not an organization.

Trevor Noah 25:35 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 25:35 We were not even some recognized activists. We were just people there in the community. Um, and we simply wanted to have our normal lives back.

Trevor Noah 25:46 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 25:47 We wanted to live in peace as we were before and continue our education. It was as simple as that. But because of the Taliban, we were now living under terrorism. Uh, but, you know, that, I'm so grateful that that is something of the past, and it has changed for us. I survived. I became an activist through that. But when I do this work today, like, I think about the 11-year-old Malala.

Trevor Noah 26:15 Mm.

Malala Yousafzai 26:16 And I know there are millions like her

Malala Yousafzai 26:19 out there. They're not just girls who are suffering or who are being left behind. These are girls who are determined.

Trevor Noah 26:27 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 26:27 They have a voice.

Trevor Noah 26:28 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 26:29 They have agency, and they're actually fighting for their rights. They could be doing it in loud ways. They could be do it, doing it out in the public, or they could just simply be doing it at home when they're picking up their books and their pens and, and, and trying to learn. And I'm seeing that happening in so many parts of the world, from Nigeria to Pakistan to Brazil, all the way to Afghanistan right now. I was talking to four of the Afghan girls who we are supporting through Malala Fund project, and they are learning through a secret school there because the Taliban have banned girls education. And one girl told me that she has converted her home into a school so that she at least feels that she can continue learning at home.

Trevor Noah 27:19 That's beautiful.

Malala Yousafzai 27:20 Um, so you know, this is the, the resilience, the determination of girls. They do not need any inspirational people. They already know what needs to be done, what future they deserve. We just need to listen to them.

Trevor Noah 27:35 Yeah. Ironically, they don't need the inspiration. They just need the support.

Malala Yousafzai 27:38 Exactly.

Trevor Noah 27:39 Oftentimes w- we make the mistake of thinking we're coming in to save the people, is ... It's like the Superman imagery. Like, even in the most recent Superman, I don't know if you ... Have you seen it?

Malala Yousafzai 27:49 I saw it, yes.

Trevor Noah 27:50 You saw it. Yeah. So you know there's that scene where the people are like, "Superman."

Malala Yousafzai 27:54 Yes.

Trevor Noah 27:54 "Superman." And I had, like, mixed feelings about it 'cause on the one hand I was like, "I mean, I guess they're cheering for Superman," but it made it seem like Superman was their hope.

Malala Yousafzai 28:02 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 28:02 Do you know what I mean?

Malala Yousafzai 28:03 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 28:03 And I was like, I don't know. In real life it feels like they would just be fighting, and then Superman should help.

Malala Yousafzai 28:08 Yes.

Trevor Noah 28:09 You know?

Malala Yousafzai 28:09 I know, I know. You know, it's just like, oh, suddenly it looks like it's a country in the global south, the Middle East, or you know. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 28:17 It was very like, where is this place?

Malala Yousafzai 28:19 I know. Very interesting scene.

Trevor Noah 28:21 Where, wh- what is this place? Th- this border's weird.

Malala Yousafzai 28:24 Yes.

Trevor Noah 28:24 Like, all of it was, um ... A- actually-

Malala Yousafzai 28:27 Yeah

Trevor Noah 28:27 ... y- no, what were you gonna

Trevor Noah 28:28 say?

Malala Yousafzai 28:28 No, I was just gonna say that it's not about somebody with superpowers saving us. I think it's about solidarity, support-

Trevor Noah 28:37 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 28:38 ... that can make a huge difference. I think it's the local people who can lead change, and that's the whole model of the work that I'm doing through Malala Fund. We are supporting local education activists. So, you know, I, we do global advocacy for education-

Trevor Noah 28:53 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 28:53 ... and I speak, and I, you know, have created this global platform. But, like, our investments actually go to local organizations in Tanzania, Ethiopia, Pakistan, India, um, I mean, Brazil, and, um, sorry, f- I think, uh, Afghanistan.

Trevor Noah 29:10 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Malala Yousafzai 29:11 And these activists are changing policies. They are working on legislations. They are working with local community leaders. They are working directly with girls, and a lot of these activists are young girls themselves. So it's, like, a phenomenal work. Like, when you visit one project, you just see the impact that these activists are creating. It's truly phenomenal. In Tanzania this summer, I went, and I saw how one organization, Msemina Initiative, were addressing the issue of girls' safety walking to school-

Trevor Noah 29:46 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 29:46 ... because these girls have to walk for, like, up to 10 miles. I just could not believe the number. I double-checked. I said, "Are you sure it's 10 miles?" They said, "Yes." That's how long girls have to walk. So they brought in bicycles initiative-

Trevor Noah 29:58 Hmm

Malala Yousafzai 29:59 ... to help them, uh, have a safer and easier and quicker journey to the schools. Um, and it's, you know, not just addressing the transport issue, but it's giving them safety as well. It's just incredible work that these activists do. Like, you cannot fix these problems from DC or London.

Trevor Noah 30:13 Right.

Malala Yousafzai 30:14 It's about us further supporting and strengthening the local activism that is happening. It's through grants. It's through giving them the tools, the technical support, and being there as their allies. Like, you know, that's,

Malala Yousafzai 30:30 that's all we need Because for a lasting sustainable change, we have to strengthen the local communities

Trevor Noah 30:37 Well, I also think we have to see them as people, and I, I ... That's what I love, you know, i- in what you've done in the book is, like, reminding yourself that you're looking at people

Malala Yousafzai 30:44 Yeah

Trevor Noah 30:45 Oftentimes people think that refugees are refugees because they don't wanna be in their country, or refugees are refugees because, you know, their country sucks or because ... And it's like, no, no, no, no. These are people who wanna stay there

Malala Yousafzai 30:57 Yeah

Trevor Noah 30:57 You know, something's pushing them. They have friends.

Malala Yousafzai 30:59 Yeah

Trevor Noah 30:59 They have rituals. They have ideas. They have, like, there's, like, a vibe that you don't wanna ... There's mangoes

Malala Yousafzai 31:04 Yes [laughs]

Trevor Noah 31:04 Do you know what I mean?

Malala Yousafzai 31:05 Yeah

Trevor Noah 31:05 There's the mangoes

Malala Yousafzai 31:06 And think about your life right now. Like, why would you just leave your home?

Trevor Noah 31:10 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 31:11 Who wants to pack as much as they can and go and start a life in a new country? Who wants to walk for days and days, put their lives at risk, and somehow, you know, be praying that they find safety somewhere? Like, nobody wants that. Becoming a refugee is the last resort. It's the last and the only option that people have who, um, have to leave their homes-

Trevor Noah 31:41 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 31:41 ... because of the challenging circumstances. I think we have to show more empathy because this could happen to any of us due to any circumstances from climate related events to conflicts and other dangers. Thinking, you know, we should think about our neighbors. If somebody is in difficult situation, we, we should open our doors. And I also share this story, um, sometimes that when we became displaced in Swat Valley, um, in, in Pakistan, it was around 2009, it was not that most people were in these, like, refugee camps. A lot of the people were welcomed by strangers in the neighboring cities

Trevor Noah 32:21 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 32:22 People just opened their doors. They just gave their rooms, their homes, their food, everything. And, uh, in our culture, that was, like, completely normal because hospitality is a part of, uh, our culture. It's part of the Pashtun hospitality. It's a big part of the Pakistani culture. So I hope that, you know, we, we promote these good values everywhere [laughs]

Trevor Noah 32:42 Actually, I hope we do, especially because we forget how hard it is to begin a life somewhere else. Like-

Malala Yousafzai 32:48 Yes

Trevor Noah 32:48 ... you know, you know, there's, there's the story you tell when, when you're packing your bags, you know, to go to university in Birmingham. And this, this whole period of your life, I, again, I, I would have never thought of you like that. You're one of the smartest people I've ever met. You, one of the most thoughtful human beings I know. You, you seem to have a broad range of knowledge that just, I mean, it spans everything. And then I'm reading these stories of you having self-doubt and struggling and what was like 41% in English, I think it was

Malala Yousafzai 33:20 Yeah

Trevor Noah 33:20 And-

Malala Yousafzai 33:21 Like, in every subject, almost [laughs]

Trevor Noah 33:22 But you see, like, like, in my head, I go like, "No, Malala's always been a high achiever." And, and yet-

Malala Yousafzai 33:27 Yeah

Trevor Noah 33:27 ... here you are stressed about belonging. And probably, probably the funniest one for me was what you packed in

Trevor Noah 33:33 your bag.

Malala Yousafzai 33:33 Yes [laughs]

Trevor Noah 33:35 [laughs] When you knew you were gonna be out of your parents' watch, it was like jeans. Even, okay, this is what I mean. Even-

Malala Yousafzai 33:40 Cardigans

Trevor Noah 33:41 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 33:41 I never want to wear cardigans again, but at the time I was like, I was looking up on Google what is trending, so I searched up Selena Gomez 2017-

Trevor Noah 33:51 Yes

Malala Yousafzai 33:52 ... casual style [laughs]

Trevor Noah 33:53 Yes. Let's do it. Oh, that's amazing

Malala Yousafzai 33:56 Yeah, I was like, "What is Emma Watson wearing these days?" You know, like, what are these cool girls wearing that I wanna wear as well? I had no idea because before that I had never really worn, uh, jeans-

Trevor Noah 34:09 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 34:09 ... and just more casual Western-style, style clothing

Trevor Noah 34:13 Right

Malala Yousafzai 34:14 And, and I was thinking more like, "Okay, what else is there outside shalwar kameez? That's the only dress my mom wants me to wear because for her I am representing my whole culture."

Trevor Noah 34:24 Yes. Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 34:25 And my relatives are watching me, so we cannot, uh, cause any trouble. And she should not be taking long phone calls because people are just, uh, shocked to see me [laughs] in a different dress. And so I was like, "I need to figure out a way." So I was still following some rules around like, okay, you know, keep the sleeves long and-

Trevor Noah 34:42 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 34:43 ... it's, it's still like, you know, a bit baggy and, and ... But I was like, "Yeah, I want to, um, assimilate. I want to be among these students, and I want to be invisible in some ways [laughs] that nobody can spot me," because my Pakistani clothes are very flashy and bright and colorful and embroidered and all of that

Trevor Noah 35:03 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 35:04 So my goal was that when I go to college, nobody's shocked like, "Oh, that's who she is," or, "Oh, th- this is very similar to the person we have seen on TV"

Trevor Noah 35:13 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 35:14 I wanted to look slightly different as well. Like-

Trevor Noah 35:15 Malala undercover. That's what I'm hearing

Malala Yousafzai 35:17 Yes. Undercover-

Trevor Noah 35:18 TV show, Malala Undercover

Malala Yousafzai 35:19 A student. A student. Like, imagine when you are in college and somebody's, like, dressed up nicely. No, everybody's just [laughs]

Trevor Noah 35:26 Everyone looks the same

Malala Yousafzai 35:26 ... in a hoodie, in a cardigan, in a jumper. They're, you know, they're wearing leggings or what, what do you call it in America? I think I'm using a lot of British-

Trevor Noah 35:34 No, I think, I think leggings are-

Malala Yousafzai 35:36 Leggings

Trevor Noah 35:36 ... I think leggings are leggings

Malala Yousafzai 35:37 Tracksuit

Trevor Noah 35:37 I don't wear them, but I, I think it's leggings

Malala Yousafzai 35:39 Yeah. Yeah, I know, like, the, the, I sometimes struggle, like, trainers, boots

Trevor Noah 35:43 Oh, yeah, yeah, that thing-

Malala Yousafzai 35:44 You know?

Trevor Noah 35:44 Yeah. Was just, I, I don't know.

Malala Yousafzai 35:46 It's okay

Trevor Noah 35:46 Some people say sneakers

Malala Yousafzai 35:46 People will figure it out. Yeah, sneakers

Trevor Noah 35:48 People ... Let them, let them Google it the way you had to Google the fashions

Malala Yousafzai 35:51 Exactly. Exactly

Trevor Noah 35:51 Be like, what, what was-

Malala Yousafzai 35:52 Yes

Trevor Noah 35:52 ... what was Malala wearing? 'Cause, 'cause this is the thing, like, people ... I mean, the fact that you had to ask people, like, what fish fingers were

Malala Yousafzai 36:00 Yeah

Trevor Noah 36:00 They, they are the same thing that we, in South Africa, fish finger is a, it's like a, a processed type of fish-

Malala Yousafzai 36:05 Yes

Trevor Noah 36:06 ... that's then in a ... Okay. Okay.

Malala Yousafzai 36:07 Yes

Trevor Noah 36:07 All right, cool. Do you like fish fingers?

Malala Yousafzai 36:08 Yes, but, you know, for me it was like the name [laughs] . You know, if you think about it, fish fingers, what [laughs]

Trevor Noah 36:14 What did you ... Okay. What did you think it was? 'Cause I've, I've actually asked people this question and there's, there's one of two. Some people go, "These are the fingers of fish, but fish don't have fingers, so it's, it's referring to a part of the fish that could be a finger."

Malala Yousafzai 36:27 Uh-huh

Trevor Noah 36:27 Or it's pieces of fish that are shaped like fingers. Which one did you think when you heard fish fingers?

Malala Yousafzai 36:32 The, the former [laughs] . The first one

Trevor Noah 36:35 So you thought it was like a part of a fish?

Malala Yousafzai 36:36 Yeah. I was like, there's many species, who knows? You know, there could be a fish out there [laughs]

Trevor Noah 36:42 [laughs] There could be, like, a British fish.

Malala Yousafzai 36:44 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 36:45 "Hello."

Malala Yousafzai 36:46 Exactly.

Trevor Noah 36:46 Uh

Malala Yousafzai 36:46 Like, do we know all, all the fish? No, we don't, so.

Trevor Noah 36:49 There's the one with the light bulb, so, I mean-

Malala Yousafzai 36:50 Yeah, exactly

Trevor Noah 36:50 ... there could be one with the fingers.

Malala Yousafzai 36:52 Exactly.

Trevor Noah 36:52 I mean, that makes sense.

Malala Yousafzai 36:53 Yes.

Trevor Noah 36:54 Do-

Malala Yousafzai 36:54 But then, yeah, eventually my mom also, uh, found out what clothes I had taken-

Trevor Noah 37:00 Oh

Malala Yousafzai 37:00 ... when she, um ... So basically, you know, I, I went for rowing.

Trevor Noah 37:05 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 37:05 And I wore my jeans and a, a green bomber jacket.

Trevor Noah 37:08 Yeah, you went for ... We gotta talk about that. You went for everything.

Malala Yousafzai 37:10 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 37:10 But let's-

Malala Yousafzai 37:10 I went for everything

Trevor Noah 37:10 ... yeah, let's talk about the rowing, yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 37:12 Yeah, and then I came back. I thought it was, like, a fun day, but I realized I'm never gonna do rowing again. Firstly, because you have to get up f- at 5:00 AM.

Trevor Noah 37:20 Yes.

Malala Yousafzai 37:20 And secondly, you, you should know how to swim, and I couldn't swim. So I was like, "Okay, good experience, but it's done." But that evening, I got a call from my parents saying that, "Why were you wearing jeans?" And, like, "You have caused so much trouble, and there's a whole, like, social media backlash." And I looked at my phone, and there was a whole, uh, backlash going on against me wearing jeans.

Trevor Noah 37:43 Who took the picture? Who was the snitch?

Malala Yousafzai 37:45 Some stranger.

Trevor Noah 37:47 You know, snitches, man.

Malala Yousafzai 37:49 But-

Trevor Noah 37:49 It's just always-

Malala Yousafzai 37:50 Like, I was very careful in, in university in the beginning.

Trevor Noah 37:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 37:53 I did not want to go to the clubs and did not want to dance. I was very careful and, and because I thought, like, there could be a photo that could be taken out of context and people might create a whole controversy.

Trevor Noah 38:04 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 38:04 Like a cultural one that, you know, you're not modest enough, you're not Islamic enough, you're not Pashtun or Pakistani enough, whatever identity they wanna pick on.

Trevor Noah 38:12 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 38:12 And I will cause trouble. So I'd, I, I skipped things, you know? I was trying to be, you know, a, a, um, an obedient daughter, but-

Trevor Noah 38:22 Right

Malala Yousafzai 38:22 ... in the end it was just simply jeans that were criticized. And I was like, "If people are criticizing my jeans, I think I'm gonna change my approach. I'm just gonna continue wearing jeans. [laughs] I am not going to defend it, and I'm going to move on." Uh, because I remember my parents were telling me that, "So what are we gonna do now?" And-

Trevor Noah 38:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Malala Yousafzai 38:42 ... "Should we issue a statement?" I was like, "Statement about what? Like, saying what? I will never wear jeans again? Or I wore them because?" I said, "There's none of that."

Trevor Noah 38:54 It must have been isolating as well, 'cause ... So here's the, here's the thing that, that, that's happening in this moment, right? As I'm thinking of the story. You're in a world where you've left one world where there are norms, and we all have those, and then you move into another world where there are new norms. If you hold onto all of those, the previous ones, you'll never fit in.

Malala Yousafzai 39:13 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 39:13 You'll never belong. You'll always be isolated. If you, if you hold onto all of the new ones-

Malala Yousafzai 39:19 Yes

Trevor Noah 39:20 ... then you become isolated and you don't belong in, in where you're from. So you, you ... It's basically this tug and tug-of-war between where you were and where you are.

Malala Yousafzai 39:28 Yeah. And I was also noticing that in the trolling or the backlash I was receiving-

Trevor Noah 39:35 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 39:35 ... there were some people who were saying that why am I wearing a headscarf? And they were criticizing that I was not fully independent and f- because I was still wearing-

Trevor Noah 39:48 That's so crazy. Wow

Malala Yousafzai 39:49 ... a headscarf.

Trevor Noah 39:49 Yeah, now you're stuck between, like, all different worlds. Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 39:50 So for everybody it was all about am I representing my, my cultural, culture fully? For some it was like, well, you have, um, given up to the patriarchal culture, or you are, you have lost your autonomy and that's why you're dressing that way. And I was like, it's none of that. It's just these things are a part of me, and sometimes I want to wear something, sometimes I don't. I don't even think about who I'm representing. [laughs] I just want to feel comfortable in what I wear. And who knows? I might change my sense of fashion with time. But it's just the scrutiny that you face and that you're constantly being watched and criticized. And, and, and one thing which I told my dad when he was

Malala Yousafzai 40:34 arguing with me was that why is it always about my clothes that is a topic of discussion? My brothers immediately switch to jeans and tops.

Trevor Noah 40:47 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 40:47 Not a problem. No calls from our relatives.

Trevor Noah 40:50 [laughs] I like how you just drag them into it.

Malala Yousafzai 40:53 You know, I love fighting.

Trevor Noah 40:54 Your brothers were safe, and you were like, "What about..."

Malala Yousafzai 40:57 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 40:57 That is the classic sibling move.

Malala Yousafzai 40:59 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 40:59 "What about my brothers?"

Malala Yousafzai 41:00 What about my brothers?

Trevor Noah 41:01 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 41:02 It is true. Also, like, I'm really scared of my mom, so it's really hard to argue with her because you will never win. So somehow you have to just come to an agreement where-

Trevor Noah 41:13 Yeah. Okay

Malala Yousafzai 41:13 ... she respects your decision somehow, but you can never say that I was right. You can never say that. But with my dad, I am, like, a debater. I argue with him.

Trevor Noah 41:25 That's dope.

Malala Yousafzai 41:25 So I was like, "Dad, have you ever pointed a finger at your two sons and what they wear?"

Trevor Noah 41:30 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 41:31 And he stopped for a second and said, "Yes, I think you are right. Yeah, yeah."

Trevor Noah 41:35 Oh, that's amazing.

Malala Yousafzai 41:36 Yeah. He, he is, um, an amazing father, an amazing man, an amazing husband. For, for me, of course, like, I was so grateful that he was a great father, and he always tells this story that, "Don't ask me what I did, but ask me what I did not do-

Trevor Noah 41:51 Hmm

Malala Yousafzai 41:52 ... for my daughter, and that is I did not clip her wings." Amazing father. But I think what made an, a greater, um, impact or what made, like, a, an even bigger difference on me was how he was treating my mom, how he was a great husband as well.

Trevor Noah 42:10 Hmm.

Malala Yousafzai 42:11 And that influenced me a lot in how I had, like, very high expectations for the person who was going to be my life partner, even though I had a lot of, like, questions about if I'll find one and do I deserve one and-

Trevor Noah 42:23 Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine

Malala Yousafzai 42:23 ... is he the right one? But the one thing I was sure of was that I needed, that I know how I should be treated because I saw how my dad was treating my mom. Um, so I think, you know, our dads can also be role models for us For how they can be, like, good husbands, and also, like, better parents to the sons in the family. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 42:44 No, definitely. I agree with that. I agree.

Malala Yousafzai 42:45 And how they treat others and, yeah.

Trevor Noah 42:47 So wait, wait. So, uh, what about your brothers? Do they have, like, the flip relationship? 'Cause a lot of the time that'll be the case, is like the girls will have an easier time with their dad-

Malala Yousafzai 42:54 Yes

Trevor Noah 42:54 ... and then the boys will have an easier time with their mom.

Malala Yousafzai 42:56 We have a typical family.

Trevor Noah 42:58 Oh, so it is.

Malala Yousafzai 42:58 Yes.

Trevor Noah 42:58 It's exactly that.

Malala Yousafzai 42:59 Three siblings. I'm the oldest daughter and then two younger brothers. The middle one is also following the stereotype. It's just, like-

Trevor Noah 43:06 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 43:06 ... such a stereotypical house. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 43:09 You're so normal, Malala. So normal. [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 43:11 I know. All the memes and reels you guys see are, like, so relevant. Send them across. [upbeat music]

Trevor Noah 43:17 Don't go anywhere, 'cause we got more What Now? after this. [upbeat music] As, as we move, as we move through your life, um, I, I loved how you ... It's like you found joy in, like, the small things. But, like, really, not in, like, a saintly way, not in a pious way. You know, like, your, your dorm, um, I think it was in Oxford.

Malala Yousafzai 43:45 Not like I opened a book and I smelled the pages and like-

Trevor Noah 43:48 No, no, no, no, no

Malala Yousafzai 43:48 ... not like that.

Trevor Noah 43:49 Not like that. Not pretentious.

Malala Yousafzai 43:50 It was more like I closed the book. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 43:53 It's exactly. And just like-

Malala Yousafzai 43:54 And I s- yeah. And I was like, oh. I was smelling what my friends were having, and I was like, "Hmm, what's that?" And I was like, "Oh, what are these new things?" And, you know, what are these people doing? [laughs] So.

Trevor Noah 44:04 I, I wanna talk to you about your first friend, because-

Malala Yousafzai 44:06 Yes

Trevor Noah 44:07 ... i- it's, it, it seems like one of the most important relationships in your ... And your first friend, I should say, in your new life. Because you, you, you had your friends from home. You've got your school friends. You've got your, your, your childhood friends. But you make this new friend who I feel like we are partially, we should all be grateful to her as well because, like, she, she just gave you normal, you know?

Malala Yousafzai 44:30 Which one?

Trevor Noah 44:31 Oh, I, I think, was it Cora maybe was-

Malala Yousafzai 44:33 Yeah, the first one, right?

Trevor Noah 44:34 Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Malala Yousafzai 44:35 Yes.

Trevor Noah 44:35 Yeah, yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 44:35 Yes. Uh, so she was my height. [laughs] And, uh, when I was walking around on the college open day just trying to, like, figure out who to say hello to, I, I saw her and I, you know, was giving myself this confidence that, "Don't be shy. Say hello." Was like, "Hi, I'm Malala. What's your name?" "Hi, I'm Cora. I'm ..." You know, I was like, "What are you studying?" "Studying PPE." I was like, "Same. I'm also studying PPE." Like, [laughs] this is how-

Trevor Noah 45:02 Wait, what is, what is PPE?

Malala Yousafzai 45:03 Philosophy, politics, and economics.

Trevor Noah 45:05 Oh. Oh, okay, okay.

Malala Yousafzai 45:06 Yes.

Trevor Noah 45:06 Philosophy, politics, and economics. Okay.

Malala Yousafzai 45:08 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 45:08 PPE. Got it.

Malala Yousafzai 45:09 Yes.

Trevor Noah 45:09 I didn't, I didn't go to university.

Malala Yousafzai 45:10 And I was like-

Trevor Noah 45:10 I don't know any of these things. Sorry

Malala Yousafzai 45:11 ... you know, and where do you live, and why did you decide on this college? You just start a conversation and-

Trevor Noah 45:18 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 45:18 ... so, you know, we became friends. But I thought she might ask me about my past and, and she might have these, like, you know, strange questions that I'm-

Trevor Noah 45:28 Yeah, yeah

Malala Yousafzai 45:28 ... oftentimes asked. She asked none of that, never. Never in my life. All of the friends I made in university, they never immediately asked about my profile and, like, you know, what they had seen on the news or-

Trevor Noah 45:42 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 45:44 ... um, a- a- and there were some people, other people-

Trevor Noah 45:46 Yeah, yeah

Malala Yousafzai 45:46 ... who were asking me things like, "So what was, what was it like meeting this person or that person?" And, "What did you say to Obama?" I was like, "I, I did not write the minutes." Uh, "What was it like meeting Emma Watson?" They were like, "Can we meet her?" And I said, like, "No. Just because I have met somebody once doesn't mean I have their phone number and I can call them right now."

Trevor Noah 46:06 Nobody, nobody understands this. I'm so glad you're saying this right now. Nobody under-

Malala Yousafzai 46:10 Yes

Trevor Noah 46:10 ... they, they see you meet someone once.

Malala Yousafzai 46:12 Yes.

Trevor Noah 46:13 They think you're now best friends.

Malala Yousafzai 46:15 I know.

Trevor Noah 46:15 They think you have their phone number. They think you can, like, organize something with the ... Have you had it where people ask you to pass something on?

Malala Yousafzai 46:22 Yes.

Trevor Noah 46:23 Yeah. I've-

Malala Yousafzai 46:23 Yes

Trevor Noah 46:23 ... I've got that.

Malala Yousafzai 46:24 Can you ask them to record a video message for me?

Trevor Noah 46:27 Yes.

Malala Yousafzai 46:27 It's my birthday.

Trevor Noah 46:28 Yes. I will send this-

Malala Yousafzai 46:29 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 46:29 I will send this to Barack Obama.

Malala Yousafzai 46:30 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 46:30 I have his number, and I'll ask him to send the ... It, it's, it's so wild.

Malala Yousafzai 46:35 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 46:35 But what, but it, what, what it feels like they were giving you was it feels like they were allowing you to write your story from scratch in that moment.

Malala Yousafzai 46:42 Yeah. So the people who became my friends for life were asking me about my assignment, how I was coping with the essay crisis, did I need help with the questions, and what party was happening that evening, uh, who was up to what, who was dating who. And I was quite helpful in giving relationship advice, so-

Trevor Noah 47:05 Oh, really?

Malala Yousafzai 47:05 ... they were bringing up all of their, uh, problems to me. The, a lot of them were just problems. [laughs] And, uh, I was like, "Yeah, this guy is sort of, uh, signaling to you very clearly that he does not want to talk to you."

Trevor Noah 47:18 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 47:18 If he's taking three days to reply.

Trevor Noah 47:21 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 47:23 You know? So it means-

Trevor Noah 47:24 Wait, wait. So, so you were that friend in the crew. You were, like, the relationship-

Malala Yousafzai 47:27 I was the-

Trevor Noah 47:27 ... expert friend.

Malala Yousafzai 47:28 Yeah, because at the time I thought, you know, I'm, I'm just this observer.

Trevor Noah 47:31 Okay. Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 47:31 I can see from the outside. I'm like, I'm like the coach. They were like, "H- how do you know it?" I said, "You know, like, coaches are, are never on the field. You know, they don't, [laughs] they're not the players, but they know what, what is happening." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 47:43 Right. They're watching the game. Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 47:44 They're watching the game.

Trevor Noah 47:45 Sometimes you have the best perspective because you're watching the game.

Malala Yousafzai 47:47 Exactly.

Trevor Noah 47:48 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 47:48 So I were, I was fixing all of their problems. I, I knew who was putting too much effort and who needed to put a bit more effort and who needed to move on from their school boyfriend and, you know, realize that they were changing as a person as well, and they could not be stuck in the past. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 48:04 Oh, that feels a little bit like it cut, it, like, it, it went, you know, like, one of the ... You know, sometimes you give advice-

Malala Yousafzai 48:09 Yeah

Trevor Noah 48:09 ... and then it c- it goes close to home?

Malala Yousafzai 48:11 Yes.

Trevor Noah 48:11 You know? Like, were you ever experiencing any of that i- in giving the advice, realizing there's parts of you that you had from home that you were trying to hold onto that you now had to let go of, but still hold onto the parts of yourself you wanted to keep?

Malala Yousafzai 48:23 I didn't understand that question. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 48:25 No. So what I mean is, so-

Malala Yousafzai 48:26 Sorry. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 48:27 So you, in this moment-

Malala Yousafzai 48:28 Yes

Trevor Noah 48:28 ... you're giving this advice to your friends.

Malala Yousafzai 48:29 Yes.

Trevor Noah 48:30 And, and what you said was really poignant. You said, "I was ..." Th- there's one friend where you noticed that she was holding onto a boyfriend from the past-

Malala Yousafzai 48:37 Yes

Trevor Noah 48:37 ... and an idea of herself, and you were like, "Hey, now it's time for you to move on."

Malala Yousafzai 48:40 Yes.

Trevor Noah 48:41 And I wonder if that cut close to home for you, because you were also in a position where you had this ... older version of yourself.

Malala Yousafzai 48:49 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 48:49 You're now in the present-

Malala Yousafzai 48:50 Yes

Trevor Noah 48:50 ... and you're facing this uncertain future. Did you also feel like for yourself, you have to figure out what you're willing to let go of and change and move towards?

Malala Yousafzai 48:59 I think it was a process.

Trevor Noah 49:00 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 49:00 And it's still happening. There are-

Trevor Noah 49:04 Oh, yeah

Malala Yousafzai 49:04 ... parts of me that I suddenly realize that I'm letting, uh, go of. It's, it's really hard. There are still things that I want, uh, to be a part of me forever.

Trevor Noah 49:18 Mm.

Malala Yousafzai 49:18 Uh, but it's, it's really a process. I think in college for me, the most important thing was just being that jolly student that I once was in Pakistan, and to know that this could be my safe space where I feel like nobody's watching me.

Trevor Noah 49:38 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 49:38 And I could be myself. I don't know what I am. I don't know what I enjoy and what I love, but I just want to allow myself to ex- experience all of these things because nobody's watching, and, and that was the best time. Climbing the rooftops, skipping assignments, watching the sunrise in the morning, chatting with friends for hours and hours and hours, going for grocery shopping, [laughs] and, um, skipping lectures. I, I feel like I'm just mentioning all the bad things. Also, sometimes doing your assignments and sometimes working hard. Uh, the other thing was asking for help when you need help with your academic performance. Like, uh, you know, it- some of us are, are hesitant because we feel like, are we the only ones who need it? But when I found out about the student support, I realized, okay, you know, this might be the only hope for me now because of how I had struggled with my, um, studies for a very long time in college.

Trevor Noah 50:47 Wow.

Trevor Noah 50:48 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 50:48 That when I went there to that room, I realized that I wasn't the only one there. There were, like, other students, um, walking out of that, uh, study room, and I was like, oh, like, so I'm, I'm not the only one, and there's, like, some of my friends who are also getting this support. [smacks lips] So I changed my approach. I said, "Okay, I'll, I'll always make sure that I ask for help."

Trevor Noah 51:09 Yeah. That's-

Malala Yousafzai 51:12 But that's, yeah, that's like a normal college life, right? Sort of.

Trevor Noah 51:15 And, and that's, yeah, but that's, that's, I think that's what makes it so powerful is w- we forget how much all of us in life will always, um, will always yearn for the thing we don't have, right?

Malala Yousafzai 51:30 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 51:30 And in a perfect world, everyone will have enough of what they need, you know, whether it's, uh, good or even friction could be bad. Just have enough of what you need. And so I do like that you're talking about the rooftops and the late nights and the-

Malala Yousafzai 51:44 Yeah

Trevor Noah 51:44 ... talking to the friends, because it feels like in this moment in time, that's what you needed.

Malala Yousafzai 51:48 Yeah, and I knew that I would be in college just for three years.

Trevor Noah 51:51 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 51:52 I did not know what was happening after that, that I said, "This is the only time maybe-

Trevor Noah 51:59 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 51:59 ... that I'll have such fun and I could be myself." And yeah, I was like, all the surveillance cameras are, are not there. I'm in my safe space. And college was, of course, like, a really exciting and fun time, but it was also a difficult time at this, uh, because, you know, I had some experiences where, um, it was the first time that I had a, a panic attack, like a big panic attack, when I was with some of my friends and was struggling with my assignments. Uh, so one friend invited me to hang out with them outside in the gardens. And, and, and I joined them. It was still late at night, but I said, you know, like, "This is, this is so normal for me. I'll finish my essay by, by, by, by the morning."

Trevor Noah 52:48 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 52:50 And we were just chatting, and they were trying, uh, bong. I had never seen bong.

Trevor Noah 52:55 Like a bong?

Malala Yousafzai 52:56 Yeah, like a bong.

Trevor Noah 52:58 Like the [gurgling] that thing?

Malala Yousafzai 52:58 [laughs] Yeah.

Trevor Noah 52:59 Okay.

Malala Yousafzai 53:00 Exactly that.

Trevor Noah 53:01 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 53:02 Anyway, I was like, "Oh, what is this?" And they were like, "You know, just, like, related to weed, all of that." I was like, "Oh, yeah, like, that's not that serious." Um, so they were like, "You know, you have to try it." So I took one puff. I coughed. It just, I was like, "Oh, you know, what is this?" Then they were like, "No, no, just, you know, try one more time." I was like, "Okay." Tried it again, and I felt like I, I inhaled it and suddenly just went inside, and I don't know where time went. But this time, I, like, I lost, I disconnected from reality, and I felt like, um, I, I, I was just like, I thought I was dead again. I thought I had been-

Trevor Noah 53:49 Wow

Malala Yousafzai 53:49 ... attacked, and I thought, um, even though I don't remember anything about the incident, I thought it was h- all happening in repeat and time slowed down. I could not feel my body anymore, and my friend suddenly realized what was happening, so she helped, uh, me and, uh, I was holding her hand tight. She somehow took me to her room, and I don't know how I survived that night, but I could not sleep because as soon as I would try to close my eyes, I thought this was the end of it. I would not be able to wake up. Um, I thought, like, I was, I was somehow, like, losing life. And it was, um, it felt like it was, again, that whole time of the attack where I was in induced coma and I wanted to get up, but I could not. I wanted to feel like I was awake. I wa- I, I needed to know that I was alive, and I just could not. Um, yeah, but then, you know, the next day I knew that my body had changed forever. I just felt like m- I could not be the same person anymore.

Trevor Noah 54:54 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 54:55 I became anemic, and then I, you know, called for a friend and, and she, um, she helped me. Then at the time, I just could not explain to my friends what was happening. I didn't even know if it was normal or not. I did not even know if it was a panic attack or not.

Trevor Noah 55:11 Yeah, because it's so jarring.

Malala Yousafzai 55:12 It's... It was just, I was like, "Oh, maybe it's just about me," because of what I had experienced-

Trevor Noah 55:17 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 55:17 ... that it was, um, not something that other people have also experienced in, in, in, in their own way. Um, but I think it was really the friends who helped me in that difficult time. S- something like a sleepover. They just came to my room and they said, "You don't have to tell us anything. We're gonna just sleep with you tonight in your room."

Trevor Noah 55:37 That is so beautiful.

Malala Yousafzai 55:37 They brought their mattresses, yeah. And, uh, but then eventually one other friend of mine, she, um, she said, "You need to see a therapist."

Trevor Noah 55:48 Huh.

Malala Yousafzai 55:49 That was the first time. It was months later. I thought I could-

Trevor Noah 55:52 And wait, this was the first time you had ever gone to a therapist?

Malala Yousafzai 55:54 Yes. I [laughs] ... So i- in Birmingham, I was receiving all of these medical treatments

Malala Yousafzai 56:00 and-

Trevor Noah 56:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Malala Yousafzai 56:01 ... from, like, facial symmetry to, like, nerve surgery to the hearing implant, and all of these things were happening, and then there was a, a therapist as well, and she was the only person in that whole hospital that I did not like.

Trevor Noah 56:16 Oh, wow.

Malala Yousafzai 56:17 I thought she was asking me too many questions, and I just want to, like, recover. I just want to be able to get up.

Trevor Noah 56:24 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 56:24 Why is she asking me about how am I feeling? I said, "What's there to talk about [laughs] feelings right now?"

Trevor Noah 56:30 Wow.

Malala Yousafzai 56:30 That many years later, I, I did not know if therapy would be helpful at all. Um, and then my friend said, "No," like we all... Like, she said, like, she goes, um, to see a therapist. She said... And I was like, "But you are f-" She's like, "No, that's not the point."

Trevor Noah 56:46 Hmm.

Malala Yousafzai 56:48 Um, we can talk about different issues. You don't know who it's affecting. And then I realized that so many people were actually seeing therapists, so that was the first time I saw a therapist many, many years later, um, and it was because of these panic attacks that I realized I have to go and see a therapist. Because in then I felt like I just, I just could not do it. I just could not.

Trevor Noah 57:14 W- when you, when you share that, it, um, it reminds me of a conversation we actually had on the podcast with, um, a neuroscientist who specializes in trauma.

Malala Yousafzai 57:24 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 57:25 And she taught us something that I'd, I'd never known before, which was people who have experienced an, like an acute trauma, part of their PTSD is their cortisol levels change-

Malala Yousafzai 57:37 Hmm

Trevor Noah 57:37 ... like the normal, the baseline.

Malala Yousafzai 57:39 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 57:40 And where most times in society, I think this was discovered around the 1980s, um, with, uh, veterans of the Vietnam War. It's that people had sort of depleted their cortisol.

Malala Yousafzai 57:51 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 57:52 And so something could inflame it, something could trigger it, something could bring it back. And the most important thing she said about the trauma and just how we talk about these things is we often assume people should be willing to share their stories when we're willing to hear them.

Malala Yousafzai 58:06 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 58:07 But the real thing that unlocks it is them meeting a person at the right time who says-

Malala Yousafzai 58:11 Yeah

Trevor Noah 58:11 ... the right thing. Often it's a person who's experienced something similar. You find, you find you share-

Malala Yousafzai 58:17 Yes

Trevor Noah 58:17 ... a different bond, a different connection, a different, a different way of, of speaking about it even that's less sanitized than, you know, sometimes like a strict-

Malala Yousafzai 58:26 Yes

Trevor Noah 58:26 ... therapist-patient relationship. So it's, it's a- it's amazing that, that you experienced that on the ground. Did you find that the therapy helped?

Malala Yousafzai 58:33 The therapy helped a lot, and I fully agree with you. I could not explain it to my parents. I could not explain it to anybody else. I could talk a bit about it to my friends, and I think they recognized that I needed them around me.

Trevor Noah 58:48 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 58:48 And then they also realized that maybe you also need to see a therapist. The therapist was very helpful. To be honest, in the first session, I thought, "I'll, like, explain everything and just throw everything at them, and then they'll tell me what's wrong with me and give me some medication, and then I'll be-

Trevor Noah 59:05 This is the car mechanic in you

Malala Yousafzai 59:06 ... fine." Yes.

Trevor Noah 59:07 This is-

Malala Yousafzai 59:08 Exactly.

Trevor Noah 59:08 This is the car-

Malala Yousafzai 59:08 I was like-

Trevor Noah 59:09 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 59:09 ... "Fix the problem."

Trevor Noah 59:09 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 59:10 "Figure it out and fix the problem." And she was just nodding. I kept talking, and she was just nodding, and I was like, "Where is this gonna go?" [laughs]

Trevor Noah 59:18 [laughs] It is, yeah, the first therapy session is always a strange one.

Malala Yousafzai 59:22 Yeah. They keep asking you questions-

Trevor Noah 59:24 Uh-huh, uh-huh

Malala Yousafzai 59:24 ... and you're like, "Let me explain it back to you." But I was like, "What's..." You know. And then I had a few more sessions with her. I would, like, write down what I was experiencing, and there were, like, some good times, and I felt normal, and then there were times when, like, you know, my body was sweating and-

Trevor Noah 59:39 Wow

Malala Yousafzai 59:40 ... uh, you know, I, I could hear my heartbeat, and I, um, I was panicking, and, like, small things could trigger me or, or just, like, make me somehow feel like, like I had lost. Uh, it's, it's really hard to explain these things, you know?

Trevor Noah 59:57 No, I, I, I think I c- I understand it.

Malala Yousafzai 59:59 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 59:59 I, I think of, like, when I've had to deal in therapy with, you know, my mom who was shot.

Malala Yousafzai 1:00:04 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:00:04 So my mom was shot in the head by my stepfather, and even though I wasn't there, I have images, you know-

Malala Yousafzai 1:00:12 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:00:12 ... because my brothers told me the stories, and my mom, you know, when I got to the hospital and she was being wheeled into ICU, the image that I have of her-

Malala Yousafzai 1:00:21 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:00:21 ... is still in my head.

Malala Yousafzai 1:00:22 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:00:22 And one of the hardest things to try and explain to people is, is how your mind is like a carousel.

Malala Yousafzai 1:00:30 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:00:31 You can't reliably with, you know, retrieve the memory the way you want to.

Malala Yousafzai 1:00:36 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:00:36 It's spinning. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's there, sometimes... And then sometimes the light hits it in such a way that it really shines-

Malala Yousafzai 1:00:43 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:00:43 ... at you in the, in the most harsh way, and that's, that's when you'll feel a lot of the time what you're not able to feel. You know, like what you said in the, in the beginning of our conversation, many times we can tell the story, and sometimes I feel like that's when the carousel is far.

Malala Yousafzai 1:00:57 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:00:57 And you just tell it. And then sometimes you feel the story, and it, you know, it might be triggered-

Malala Yousafzai 1:01:01 Oh, yeah

Trevor Noah 1:01:02 ... by something random, and- I've learned that's where, like, therapy, especially good therapy-

Malala Yousafzai 1:01:08 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:01:08 ... starts to help you bridge those gaps.

Malala Yousafzai 1:01:11 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:01:11 You know? You start to bridge the gaps between where you were, what you were feeling, who you are and what you're feeling, and, and then merging those two worlds into one.

Malala Yousafzai 1:01:20 Yes. 100% agree with you because, you know, I would not have been able to say anything about it a few years ago. And, you know, with the help of therapy and just how my life, um, took a different trajectory, it was not just the incident and the panic attack, but it was many other things, like-

Trevor Noah 1:01:39 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:01:39 ... the decision to marry or not, and what my life would look like after I graduate, and I graduated in the pandemic. So it was just a lot of things that were happening that were quite overwhelming, and then I was also worried about my grades, if I would actually graduate or not, because, you know, I had been skipping a lot of those essays and assignments. Uh, so, like, I was, by the end of the university time, I was quite, um, quite nervous, overwhelmed. Uh, and at the time, you know, I just did not even know if, if I could ever even share it. But wh- when I look back and how I have found my way out, um, and, and I have learned so much from it, I wanted to write this book. I wanted to share the story with other people so that it could help somebody out there.

Trevor Noah 1:02:25 Mm. Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:02:26 And, um, you know, it's not just about asking for help, but also being there for people who need help.

Trevor Noah 1:02:35 Yeah, and I think it's important for us to reclaim it as well.

Malala Yousafzai 1:02:38 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:02:39 One of the things I realized in, in therapy was a lot of the way we think of therapy now is shaped by the West, you know, and they'll go therapist and therapy. And if you come from South Africa, maybe I'm assuming Pakistan, wherever you're from in the world, a lot of people will say, "Oh, that's not in my culture. Oh, we don't do that."

Malala Yousafzai 1:02:57 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:02:57 "We don't do..." But as I've taken time to learn about different cultures, I've come to realize every single culture, if you look back, you know, either it was erased during colonial times-

Malala Yousafzai 1:03:06 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:03:06 ... or it's been forgotten, you know. I remember being in Machu Picchu and learning from historians-

Malala Yousafzai 1:03:12 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:03:12 ... that they had therapy.

Malala Yousafzai 1:03:14 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:03:14 Just not the way we think of it now.

Malala Yousafzai 1:03:16 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:03:16 But every culture has elders.

Malala Yousafzai 1:03:18 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:03:18 And every culture will tell you about which elders were supposed to do what.

Malala Yousafzai 1:03:21 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:03:22 And some would even specialize. You know, th- there'd be, "These are the people you're gonna talk to just about being a mother, and they'll help you to be a mother, and they'll help you with postpartum depression," whatever it may be. "These people will tell you about relationships. This person..." And, and now it's become commercialized-

Malala Yousafzai 1:03:38 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:03:38 ... unfortunately, unfortunately, I guess in some ways. But there's an element of reclaiming it that I think is very important, you know, 'cause, 'cause then, again, I find people can go, "Oh, you Westernized now. Oh, what is this therapy thing you're talking about? That's not our..." And it's like, no, no, it is our people, actually.

Malala Yousafzai 1:03:51 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:03:52 Talking to somebody who can shed perspective and wisdom is exactly part of our cultures.

Malala Yousafzai 1:03:58 I do wonder if it's just for people who are in the public eye who face this pressure that they somehow have to pretend that they're living a perfect life, and they are not as open about what they actually feel, what's going on their, in their mind, that somehow we cannot make a mistake. We cannot just let a, a thought come out or just say something out loud. Uh, because when I think about the culture in our village in Pakistan, to me, like, everybody's just being themselves.

Trevor Noah 1:04:30 Yeah. Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:04:31 Nobody- [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:04:32 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:04:33 ... cares [laughs] what you think and how offended you'll be.

Trevor Noah 1:04:37 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:04:37 Everybody will tell you how they feel. I have noticed that about my mom as well. She, she will show it to you, not just say it to you. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:04:46 Moms do that, yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:04:47 Yes. And, uh, and my dad, you know, out of respect, he's, like, very passionate about expressing what he thinks should be done and what he thinks is right. And I realize that, you know, like, it's, it's not the same, uh, for me at least-

Trevor Noah 1:05:00 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 1:05:00 ... that I keep everything to myself, and I do wonder if this is because I was so exposed to media and this outside world watching me, even when I was 11 years old.

Trevor Noah 1:05:14 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:05:14 You know, I was blogging. I was becoming an activist. I was seen as this, like, kid in school who is giving speeches, and she's a bit smart. So, like, I feel like everybody was watching me, even though there was, like, no camera or nothing. [laughs] And that's how I have lived my whole life, that sometimes I feel that, you know, that I, I wish there was just less scrutiny and less surveillance and, and that we, um, allowed ourselves to express our opinions, our thoughts more openly.

Trevor Noah 1:05:45 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:05:46 Because as you were saying, like, that's how therapy should technically be because you say something in front of your friend, and your friend is like, "Well," or like, you know, "It didn't sound right. Let me explain it to you," or like, "But have you thought about this thing?" Or, "I fully agree with you. It never occurred to me."

Trevor Noah 1:06:01 Yes. Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:06:01 "Wow, I'm hearing this-

Trevor Noah 1:06:02 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:06:02 ... for the first time." It could work either ways. And, and I wonder if it's affecting more people out there-

Trevor Noah 1:06:10 I think it is

Malala Yousafzai 1:06:10 ... because of social media-

Trevor Noah 1:06:12 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:06:12 ... because of how these things work now that everybody has a TikTok and Instagram profile. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:06:16 Yeah. No, no, I, I genuinely think it is. I think it is. I think it's a combination-

Malala Yousafzai 1:06:20 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:06:20 ... of two things, a- and I'm s- maybe there's more that I'm missing, but the, the more I've thought about it, y- you know, and to your point, sharing a spotlight.

Malala Yousafzai 1:06:27 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:06:28 I've, I've seen every variation of it.

Malala Yousafzai 1:06:31 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:06:31 You know, people having a spotless image of you, people having a terrible image of you.

Malala Yousafzai 1:06:36 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:06:36 I think it's two things that people are, are experiencing on, on multiple levels, depending on, you know, how prominent you are. The one is we have more access to each other than we've ever had-

Malala Yousafzai 1:06:49 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:06:50 ... in the history of the world, but at the same time, we have less context than we've ever had for each other in the world. And I think that's a terrible combination of things

Malala Yousafzai 1:07:00 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:07:00 You know, I, I think to myself, one of the, one of the natural, beautiful occurrences in, in the world is how accents and languages evolve. And I think that's... I, I speak multiple languages. I love accents.

Malala Yousafzai 1:07:12 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:07:12 The reason I love them is because they tell you a story. They tell you how people moved, and it's amazing how you can track an accent that starts in one part of the world, and if you move far enough and slowly enough, you see that the accent is still exactly the same-

Malala Yousafzai 1:07:27 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:07:27 ... which, which always blew my mind. It's like, oh, no, an English accent is a Jamaican accent, is an Indian accent, is... Like, it's depending on which way the journey went. It's just the gradual change that started to soften it, and it provides it context.

Malala Yousafzai 1:07:40 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:07:41 And I think without context, we lose everything.

Malala Yousafzai 1:07:43 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:07:44 Like, your friends hold your context.

Malala Yousafzai 1:07:46 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:07:46 So a friend can say, "That's not you."

Malala Yousafzai 1:07:48 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:07:49 You know, that's not you at your saddest. That's not you at your angriest. That's not you at, with, you know-

Malala Yousafzai 1:07:53 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:07:54 ... whatever it is. That's not you in your fullest.

Malala Yousafzai 1:07:56 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:07:57 And a friend can give you grace.

Malala Yousafzai 1:07:58 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:07:58 A friend can give you compassion. A friend can... It- it's because the person trusts you in your whole-

Malala Yousafzai 1:08:04 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:08:04 ... and so they notice the anomalies, which we all have.

Malala Yousafzai 1:08:06 They don't judge you.

Trevor Noah 1:08:07 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:08:07 They don't judge you.

Trevor Noah 1:08:07 That's the big thing.

Malala Yousafzai 1:08:08 And I love that. They're not canceling you.

Trevor Noah 1:08:10 Yeah, no, no, no.

Malala Yousafzai 1:08:11 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:08:11 But I, but I think it's, but I think it's because-

Malala Yousafzai 1:08:12 They're there for you-

Trevor Noah 1:08:13 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:08:13 ... regardless.

Trevor Noah 1:08:14 To be fair to society-

Malala Yousafzai 1:08:15 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:08:16 ... it's because they don't have any context.

Malala Yousafzai 1:08:18 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:08:18 You know, I've, I've literally had people come up to me. I wonder if you've had the same experience. I, I've had people come up to me-

Malala Yousafzai 1:08:22 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:08:22 ... and they've said, often at a live event.

Malala Yousafzai 1:08:24 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:08:25 You know, one man, um, I was on the road. I was in a place called, um, Springfield, Missouri, and everyone told me, "Oh, that's Trump country. That's all red. I wonder what it's gonna be like." And I did a show there. Had an amazing time, really amazing time. And after the show, I was, I was, um, in the town, and I was walking around, and this man came up to me-

Malala Yousafzai 1:08:42 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:08:42 ... and he said, you know, I was sitting, like, at a little diner at a booth, and he came up, and he's like, "Hey, can I just let you know, my son brought me to your show, and I, uh, I didn't like you. I didn't like you, but I, I had a good time at your show, and you're a lot different than I thought you were. Uh, thank you." And I said, "Thank you very much." I said, "If, if I may ask, why, what didn't you-

Malala Yousafzai 1:09:03 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:09:03 ... why didn't you like me? What..." He says, "Well, I saw a few clips of yours on Facebook, and I didn't like what I saw. But, you know, when I came to your show, I was like, wow, you know, I agree with that-

Malala Yousafzai 1:09:12 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:09:12 ... and I like that, and maybe I don't think that." But, but he saw more because I was able to be there with him in person.

Malala Yousafzai 1:09:18 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:09:18 Like this.

Malala Yousafzai 1:09:18 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:09:19 You know, it's bridging this gap, I think that's important.

Malala Yousafzai 1:09:21 Yeah, I think people on social media are oftentimes talking about a conversation about you.

Trevor Noah 1:09:26 Yes. Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:09:27 It's, you are never there.

Trevor Noah 1:09:28 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:09:29 They're like, "We think this person said this, and we're sure, we are so sure that this person meant this."

Trevor Noah 1:09:34 Yes.

Malala Yousafzai 1:09:35 We're not gonna look [laughs] at the context.

Trevor Noah 1:09:37 No, no, no.

Malala Yousafzai 1:09:37 Any of that.

Trevor Noah 1:09:38 It's a flattening. It's a complete-

Malala Yousafzai 1:09:40 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:09:40 ... complete flattening.

Malala Yousafzai 1:09:41 That has happened to me a few times. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:09:42 Yeah. It's, I mean, you know what? I think, I think it's changing, though, to be honest with you.

Malala Yousafzai 1:09:47 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:09:47 So I, I think I give most of the credit to Gen Z and then I guess Alpha in that because they grew up in such surveillance-

Malala Yousafzai 1:09:58 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:09:58 ... to, to borrow your word. They grew up in a world where they were being watched. They were... If you look at the difference in their social media versus millennial social-

Malala Yousafzai 1:10:05 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:10:06 Millennial social media was all about the filter. Make it look good and make it this and make it perfect and, and then you look at what Gen Z and Alpha did. They went, "No, it's vibes. I'm gonna take a blurry picture.

Malala Yousafzai 1:10:15 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:10:15 I'm gonna take a messy shot. I'm gonna write whatever I'm feeling, then I'll delete it. It, you know what?"

Malala Yousafzai 1:10:19 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:10:19 "This isn't my tombstone. This isn't how I wanna be perceived forever." And even that shift, I think, has brought a little, just a little more parity or, or, or l- little more balance, I think, into the way we see it. I think it'll always be there, but we, we're moving, you know?

Malala Yousafzai 1:10:34 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:10:35 We'll see. If they say that about you, you must call me, and then I'll-

Malala Yousafzai 1:10:38 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:10:38 ... I'll fight for you. I like fighting people online, so.

Malala Yousafzai 1:10:41 Oh, I love that. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:10:42 I really do. You know why? 'Cause I, I, I also realized at some point, most of it is not real.

Malala Yousafzai 1:10:48 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:10:49 That was the hardest thing.

Malala Yousafzai 1:10:50 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:10:50 Is most of it is not real. Most of the hate that people are experiencing of each other is not real.

Malala Yousafzai 1:10:55 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:10:55 And that's why even when I've met, um, politicians, I'll often say to them s- more in the US, you know, than anywhere else where I've, where I've gotten to meet them, is I go, "I wish you would spend more time in public getting along."

Malala Yousafzai 1:11:10 Yes. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:11:10 Forget the law.

Malala Yousafzai 1:11:11 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:11:12 But I wish your constituents knew that you have lunches together, that you have dinners together-

Malala Yousafzai 1:11:17 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:11:17 ... that you go to each other's birthday parties, that you-

Malala Yousafzai 1:11:19 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:11:20 ... because they don't treat each other the way you do.

Malala Yousafzai 1:11:23 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:11:23 You know?

Malala Yousafzai 1:11:24 So true.

Trevor Noah 1:11:25 And so if, if you could show them that side of your lives, maybe they would be able to see that side of their lives with each other, and then, not that it would... It, it doesn't become, like, utopia, but, you know?

Malala Yousafzai 1:11:35 Yeah. In my interactions with real people, I have, like, rarely come across-

Trevor Noah 1:11:42 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:11:42 ... um, an experience where I felt a person was disrespectful or they, um, you know, were sounding like a troll, like that-

Trevor Noah 1:11:51 Yeah, yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:11:52 ... that hardly-

Trevor Noah 1:11:52 Oh, trolls are, yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:11:53 ... rarely. Like, it d- it doesn't happen. So from the very start, I knew that I cannot assume that what I see on social media is reflective of the world out there. For whatever reason, I'm like, it could be the same person, but I know they won't treat me the same way if they meet me in person. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:12:08 That's true.

Malala Yousafzai 1:12:08 Um-

Trevor Noah 1:12:09 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:12:09 ... so I think, you know, we need to ch- I feel like this, uh, uh, connection more in the real world is, is important, meeting each other, seeing each other, because it makes us feel more human, and it's not like these fixed objects that we see on social media.

Trevor Noah 1:12:26 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Malala Yousafzai 1:12:27 And we have such a fixed opinion about them, and, uh, yeah, the s- the world of social media is crazy. Just six months before my marriage, I had an interview with British Vogue, which was released because, you know, I was, like, on the cover and everything, and the journalist had asked me many questions about what I was thinking ahead about life. And at that time, I had no plans, and I was still in COVID time, a recent graduate, figuring out if I wanted to get

Malala Yousafzai 1:12:54 married or not because I had, like, a billion questions about marriage as an institution and all of that. So in the interview, somehow I said Or like why do we have to get married? Why can't it just be like a partnership and just two people living together? Why is this like this complicated concept of marriage? And when that piece came out, there was this huge backlash [laughs] that people eventually were saying that Malala is against marriage, and then they said Nikah. So Nikah is the religious cer- Islamic ceremony.

Trevor Noah 1:13:26 Oh, wow. Okay.

Malala Yousafzai 1:13:27 They made it so specific that-

Trevor Noah 1:13:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:13:28 ... Malala is advocating against this religious practice which is like so important for, you know, for, for us, for, for, for Muslims or Pakistanis. And like when you look back at the whole interview, you, you like, you, you don't see it. Like, it's not that I have said that I'm against it. I-

Trevor Noah 1:13:48 Yes

Malala Yousafzai 1:13:49 ... think nobody should be doing that. There's none of that. But nobody was ... The people who were making that claim were not going to the article.

Trevor Noah 1:13:58 No, no, no. They don't.

Malala Yousafzai 1:13:58 And, and you, you realize that, you know, this is ... These are narratives that, you know, one person ignites it, they create that spark, and then everybody else is like, "This is a wonderful opportunity. We had been looking for it. Like, let's, let's distribute it. Let's share it." So this ... There is a bit of that danger with social media because by the time you explain yourself-

Trevor Noah 1:14:18 Oh, no, it's gone

Malala Yousafzai 1:14:18 ... it's, it's too late, it's gone. So I, I remember again, like my mom and dad were disappointed with me.

Trevor Noah 1:14:25 Oh.

Malala Yousafzai 1:14:25 [laughs] That why-

Trevor Noah 1:14:26 It's the genes. First the genes and now this

Malala Yousafzai 1:14:27 ... now this. They're like, "Can you just..." And my mom actually said, my mom was like, "I wish you had never spoken."

Trevor Noah 1:14:33 Oh.

Malala Yousafzai 1:14:34 And it, it broke my heart. I was really sad, but it also made me angry that why do I have to somehow sound all perfect? If I repeat my lines, I might clarify it a bit.

Trevor Noah 1:14:47 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:14:48 But it ... You know, like why, why can't I be a normal 23-year-old who is just confused about marriage? Why can't I question it? I can't just pretend like I have figured out everything and I have all the answers. And if I'm suddenly put on the spot and asked about marriage, of course I'm gonna say, "Uh, uh, marriage? What? Who, who's getting married? Me? [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:15:07 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 1:15:07 Why do you have to get married?" That's exactly how I felt. I thought she like caught me red-handed there.

Trevor Noah 1:15:13 Yeah, she like threw a curveball at you.

Malala Yousafzai 1:15:14 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:15:15 Yeah, in that moment.

Malala Yousafzai 1:15:16 And, um, but you know, after that interview was out, I was still thinking about Asser, who's now my husband, and I was ... You know, like there were many moments in which I realized how he was the right person and the perfect person for me.

Trevor Noah 1:15:30 That's beautiful.

Malala Yousafzai 1:15:31 Because in that moment he was so calm. He actually explained it to my parents why they should not push me to release a statement in defense. He talked to them.

Trevor Noah 1:15:41 Wow.

Malala Yousafzai 1:15:42 And when we spent some time together, I realized that we actually have the best time. All these questions I have about marriage and, you know, this being an institution historically that has oppressed women, and it's patriarchal, and, you know, women make more compromises. When they make this decision, like how much do they lose on the way in terms of their career and how maternity affects them? Or like, you know, is this guy gonna turn out to be a good guy after we get married or-

Trevor Noah 1:16:10 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 1:16:11 ... And I spent some time with him, and I knew he was the right one, but when I think back,

Malala Yousafzai 1:16:18 I do not regret it for a second that I had a billion questions about marriage, and I took my time, and I asked him all those silly questions as much as I could [laughs] because, um, this is a reality-

Trevor Noah 1:16:31 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:16:31 ... that women and girls go through. And I had like everything. I, I had a platform, a career. I could make money. I ... You know, what was I s- why was I so scared of it? I was an advocate for girls' rights. Like, I knew my rights. I knew women's rights. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:16:47 And now here you were-

Malala Yousafzai 1:16:48 And somehow I was scared. I felt like I was gonna lose something.

Trevor Noah 1:16:52 Wow.

Malala Yousafzai 1:16:52 Lose something and, um, and w- you know, when I got married, I realized, wow, like it feels quite normal. Like, huh, I'm s- still the same person. [laughs] Nothing has changed. Or like, you know, something like I'm like, "I'm watching you, you know. You are my husband, but we're just friends." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:17:09 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 1:17:09 I still joke with him. I'm like, "You know, it's just we- we're husband and wife to the world outside, but we're just friends." And, you know, just kidding.

Trevor Noah 1:17:16 No, but I love, I love-

Malala Yousafzai 1:17:16 But we are. We are friends.

Trevor Noah 1:17:17 Yeah, I love, I love-

Malala Yousafzai 1:17:18 We are best friends.

Trevor Noah 1:17:19 [upbeat music] We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break. So, so this is what I, what I enjoy is, you know, y- you even talk about this and, and it's, it's, it's beautiful to read, is the ... It's like, it's like the nitty-gritty.

Malala Yousafzai 1:17:45 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:17:45 It's, it's the non-airbrushed. It's the, it's the human. You know? It's just the human that we all are. No one ... I think n- m- most people wouldn't think of like Malala having a crush. Most people wouldn't think of Malala being insecure or wondering about what love is or what love isn't, but, like people wouldn't have these things. I've experienced it like in different ways 'cause everyone paints a picture of you-

Malala Yousafzai 1:18:07 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:18:07 ... when they paint a picture. I remember telling someone once, "Oh, yeah, and I, I didn't have anyone who would go to, uh, prom with me in, in South Africa."

Malala Yousafzai 1:18:14 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:18:14 "It was the matric dance." People were like, "Oh, you're lying. You just say..." And I was like, "Oh, you have an image of me in this moment in time."

Malala Yousafzai 1:18:20 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:18:21 You weren't with me for any of the insecurities or the journeys that I've been on.

Malala Yousafzai 1:18:25 I had a question for you.

Trevor Noah 1:18:26 Oh, yeah. Shoot.

Malala Yousafzai 1:18:27 Did you s- ever speak to Zahira? Did you-

Trevor Noah 1:18:31 Again?

Malala Yousafzai 1:18:32 Like-

Trevor Noah 1:18:32 Like after-

Malala Yousafzai 1:18:33 ... recently, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:18:34 No.

Malala Yousafzai 1:18:34 Like never?

Trevor Noah 1:18:35 No.

Malala Yousafzai 1:18:36 W- did, did it ever feel like you should or?

Trevor Noah 1:18:39 Hmm. So it's a tough one. Um-

Malala Yousafzai 1:18:42 Like, do you know where she is?

Trevor Noah 1:18:44 No, I, I don't.

Malala Yousafzai 1:18:45 No?

Trevor Noah 1:18:45 I don't. I remember, I remember when I was, uh, towards the end of high school, a friend said that her family had moved to the US and something. You know, this is, this is a, this is a complicated thing that I, I, I love grappling with in life.

Malala Yousafzai 1:18:58 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:19:01 Is that, is there's a difference between the feeling And the reality.

Malala Yousafzai 1:19:05 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:19:06 Right? Oftentimes in life, we are chasing the feeling of something.

Malala Yousafzai 1:19:13 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:19:13 And because a story has been told to us, we assume that that feeling exists within a reality. So just to give people perspective, I mean, you know it, but in high school, I was an absolute proud loser.

Malala Yousafzai 1:19:28 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:19:28 I was a nerd. I w- spent more time with my computer and my video games than with people. But I, I, I got along and I got... You know, there, there were people that I've made friends with in school, but I... And, and I was very lucky that, you know, later on, like Brian became like my best friend and I... But I had a very small, tight-knit group. And one of the people who was really nice to me was a girl named Zahira, right?

Malala Yousafzai 1:19:48 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:19:48 It was Zahira and her friend Joanna, right? They were really, really nice to me. And Zahira was one of the most beautiful, beautiful girls in school. Like, I-

Malala Yousafzai 1:19:56 I read it in your book, so yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:19:57 Yeah, I just... I mean, it was true.

Malala Yousafzai 1:19:59 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:19:59 She just... But what, what made her more beautiful was h- her kindness, her-

Malala Yousafzai 1:20:03 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:20:03 ... vibe. She was nice. She... Some people, m- male and female, only smiled at the popular kids, you know? She smiled at everyone.

Malala Yousafzai 1:20:14 Aw.

Trevor Noah 1:20:14 She, she got along with everyone. She, it... And, and I remember... And she would talk to me, and I remember being like, "Wow, this is the most amazing thing." And I always thought to myself, "I would love to ask her to be my girlfriend," which was a crazy... I'd never had a girlfriend. It was, it was this-

Malala Yousafzai 1:20:30 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:20:30 ... terrifying thought. And then as I say in the book, I never did. And then one day she just didn't come to school.

Malala Yousafzai 1:20:38 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:20:38 Her parents had left the country, and that was it. There's no social media in that way, and it was, it w- you know? Now, the thing that I hold onto is, A, the lesson-

Malala Yousafzai 1:20:49 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:20:49 ... as I shared. It was one of the moments in life where I went, "Try to avoid regrets."

Malala Yousafzai 1:20:54 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:20:54 You know? Regret is an unanswered question.

Malala Yousafzai 1:20:57 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:20:57 You'll always wonder, what if, what if, what if.

Malala Yousafzai 1:21:00 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:21:00 Rejection is a bruise. You know, you'll feel it. We... I'm not gonna lie to anybody.

Malala Yousafzai 1:21:05 Yes. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:21:05 You'll feel rejection, you know? There's nothing worse than the unrequited love or the-

Malala Yousafzai 1:21:10 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:21:10 ... friend that didn't, you know, whatever it is. But the, the regret is the what if. It's the, it's the infinite what if. So that's the first thing. The second thing I hold onto is the idea, and that is, like, why would I contact the person? I would contact them because I have an idea in my head that that person holds this piece of a happiness that maybe I will attain if I find them again, et ce-

Malala Yousafzai 1:21:37 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:21:39 But I then realize, even in this moment in time, I have the happiness because I'm experiencing it. I just think it's going to be there. And so the analogy I use with my friends often is I go, "Why is it that all boys grow up wanting a Ferrari, but they've never been in one?"

Malala Yousafzai 1:21:53 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:21:54 Like, genuinely. You know, and, and not to-

Malala Yousafzai 1:21:56 Sure

Trevor Noah 1:21:56 ... not to, um, reduce a person to a vehicle, but I, I just think of, like, the images, and it's a simple one. Boys grow into men who dream of a Ferrari. Why? You've never been in one. You've never owned one. You've never, "I want a Ferrari. I want a Ferrari." And it's like, why? "Ah, because then I'll..." Be- because then I'll what? And over time, if you're lucky enough, either you do experience it, and it's, it is or it isn't what you thought. But even without it, you, you can realize you've never been in it, and yet you truly believe that it's gonna make you happy. And if you envision yourself in it, you even become happy. Then it's not the Ferrari you want, it's the idea of the Ferrari that makes you happy.

Malala Yousafzai 1:22:33 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:22:33 And if you can try pursue that feeling, you can find it in your friends putting their mattresses in your dorm room.

Malala Yousafzai 1:22:39 Yeah, anywhere. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:22:40 You, you, you truly... And I know sometimes people are like, "Ah, I... That sounds like..." But I, I won't lie, to, to your, to your stories of, like, running on rooftops, and going shopping, and late-night conversations, that's the thing that I think we need to hold onto more, is the idea and the understanding of the feeling that's behind the idea-

Malala Yousafzai 1:22:58 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:22:59 ... not just the idea itself. So no, I ne- I never, I never reached out. I never did. But I'm glad, I'm glad, I'm glad you, you know? I'm glad you didn't regret. Like, you pursued love. You,

Trevor Noah 1:23:09 you stepped out.

Malala Yousafzai 1:23:10 I pursued love, but you know, Aser was not my first love. Um, I had a crush before Aser, and, uh, this was before I had met Aser, so-

Trevor Noah 1:23:20 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:23:20 ... you know, just to disclose.

Trevor Noah 1:23:22 No c- no clipping internet.

Malala Yousafzai 1:23:23 Exactly.

Trevor Noah 1:23:23 Don't worry. We'll, we'll-

Malala Yousafzai 1:23:24 Exactly

Trevor Noah 1:23:25 ... it's, it's in full. No clipping.

Malala Yousafzai 1:23:26 But it was a similar thing, that this guy, Tariq, was this mysterious boy in college.

Trevor Noah 1:23:35 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:23:36 And there was not much that I knew about him, but I knew he was cool because there were secrets about him.

Trevor Noah 1:23:43 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 1:23:44 And he was that guy who gets in trouble. And somehow I thought maybe I could fix him.

Trevor Noah 1:23:50 Oh, wow. [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 1:23:50 So I would ask him questions like, "Why are you, you know, why are you upset?" Then he would complain about the essays and the tutors.

Trevor Noah 1:24:02 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:24:02 And I said, "Why is nobody helping you? I think we have to talk to your tutors. Let me bring this up to the principal." And he said, "Nah, man, it's just, you know, it's just..." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:24:11 Bad boy Tariq.

Malala Yousafzai 1:24:12 Bad boy. And, um, yeah, like, he would just come to my room and eat bananas and any snacks, and then-

Trevor Noah 1:24:19 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 1:24:20 ... leave. But for me, I knew that I could not be with Tariq. Tariq was just an idea. It was that feeling.

Trevor Noah 1:24:30 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:24:30 And was never even gonna become real. I, and I do not even know why I was chasing him, because at the time I didn't wanna get married or I didn't wanna have a boyfriend or any of that. Like, um-

Trevor Noah 1:24:42 Wa- was that because... What, what, what was that?

Malala Yousafzai 1:24:44 Just culture. I was still new in college.

Trevor Noah 1:24:47 Right. Right.

Malala Yousafzai 1:24:48 It was so overwhelming. Like, I was still fighting for my right to wear jeans.

Trevor Noah 1:24:52 Oh.

Malala Yousafzai 1:24:52 I was not gonna think about a guy. And with Tariq, I knew it was like this, but there's something about him that I'm somehow chasing him. And in the end, he disappears from college because, you know, he's that boy who gets in trouble and, and, you know, he's that bad boy-

Trevor Noah 1:25:07 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:25:07 ... somehow But I just, I just love that I had that experience where I felt like I was a part of something.

Trevor Noah 1:25:17 Mm.

Malala Yousafzai 1:25:18 I did not really cross the line, but I was in it. I don't know, somehow it just, it just was my first love experience-

Trevor Noah 1:25:25 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:25:26 ... that was truly one-sided. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:25:29 We all need those, I feel like-

Malala Yousafzai 1:25:30 I know

Trevor Noah 1:25:30 ... at some point.

Malala Yousafzai 1:25:31 It was just this idea. I was trying to, like, feel it and, um, yeah, it was just from, from a distance it was all an imagination, and sometimes I feel like it was a dream. And then, uh, I meet Asser who, you know, I'm like, "Wow, he's also handsome. Let's consider him." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:25:49 That's beautiful. You know, you know what it, it-

Malala Yousafzai 1:25:51 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:25:51 ... I love that you say it's like a dream and it's an imagination, but I think that's what it is. It's a powerful imagination, and the older I've gotten, the more I've realized it's an imagination that we have of ourselves.

Malala Yousafzai 1:26:02 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:26:03 That's one of the most complicated things to learn about, like, love in those moments or the idea that we have of the love-

Malala Yousafzai 1:26:09 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:26:09 ... is that that person is either seeing us or allowing us to feel seen in a way that we haven't before or in a way that we feel good or feel comfortable and feel... And, and there's something beautiful in that, like-

Malala Yousafzai 1:26:23 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:26:23 ... do you know what I mean? It's just like you-

Malala Yousafzai 1:26:24 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:26:24 ... imagining yourself because again, to your point-

Malala Yousafzai 1:26:27 I wanted to be the-

Trevor Noah 1:26:27 ... it hasn't happened

Malala Yousafzai 1:26:28 ... I wanted to be the main character.

Trevor Noah 1:26:30 Yes.

Malala Yousafzai 1:26:30 I thought it was a movie, and I had watched so many Indian movies and TV dramas that for me was that moment that there's this mysterious guy, it's, it's, it's a typical story, who's not looking at you, but he is the one because he's not looking at you.

Trevor Noah 1:26:47 This is so amazing.

Malala Yousafzai 1:26:48 And he's good-looking and all of that but, you know, um, I don't wanna use rude words, but, you know, A-S-S-H-O-L-E.

Trevor Noah 1:26:56 Oh, asshole. I'll say it for you.

Malala Yousafzai 1:26:57 Okay, thank you. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:26:58 I can be a rude word sayer.

Malala Yousafzai 1:26:59 Thank you.

Trevor Noah 1:26:59 Yeah, yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:27:00 Yeah, sort of like that guy.

Trevor Noah 1:27:01 Whenever you need to say that word, you just call me and I'll pop up there-

Malala Yousafzai 1:27:03 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:27:03 ... and be like, "Asshole."

Malala Yousafzai 1:27:05 [laughs] So at, you know, at the time I, I didn't, I did not know if I, uh, would be loved by somebody.

Trevor Noah 1:27:13 Yeah. Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:27:13 I could not love myself either, but that was just the first time that I was feeling something where I thought maybe in imagination-

Trevor Noah 1:27:22 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 1:27:22 ... there are no rules, and it's okay for me to have a crush on this guy and to be curious about his life and sort of follow him around, check on him. Does he need any help? Get him biscuits and tea and whatever he needs.

Trevor Noah 1:27:37 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 1:27:38 But he did not want my help, to be honest, other than the food. He was a boy who was-

Trevor Noah 1:27:42 Trevor just wanted bananas

Malala Yousafzai 1:27:43 ... just always in trouble and, um, then he disappeared.

Trevor Noah 1:27:48 When you, when you thought of yourself in love or being loved, was it ever difficult to bridge the gap between who you saw yourself as and who everyone else thought you were? Like, how do you love a saint?

Malala Yousafzai 1:28:06 Yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:28:07 Do you know what I mean?

Malala Yousafzai 1:28:08 I think I wanted that person to not see me as a saint.

Trevor Noah 1:28:14 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:28:14 I wanted that person to see me for who I was, and Asser from the start never received me as the Malala or as the girl he had heard about somewhere. He never even asked me a single question. Uh, I think even to this day, like, we never talk about what happened and what was life like in Swat Valley. And, um, you know, he read my book [laughs] I think around the wedding time or after that just to catch up on the story because I f-

Trevor Noah 1:28:49 Oh, no

Malala Yousafzai 1:28:49 ... I feel like he thought my dad ask, might ask him questions, so, [laughs] uh, you know, for him it just didn't matter.

Trevor Noah 1:28:56 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:28:57 For him he, he saw the Malala that was in front of him, and she was growing. She was learning.

Trevor Noah 1:29:06 Hmm.

Malala Yousafzai 1:29:06 She was still asking questions, and she was still figuring things out. Like, he accepted me for who I was and who I was becoming. That was really, uh, life-changing because e- even now I don't feel like I have to be this, like, fixed version of me. We're just so open with each other. We giggle, we laugh. I can be so silly with him. I'm truly like myself. I, I don't think twice when I say something in front of him.

Trevor Noah 1:29:33 That's, I mean, that's-

Malala Yousafzai 1:29:34 That's the best thing. Y- it's not about like, "Oh, am I hurting your feelings or something?" And, and you're not hurting your feelings. Like, somehow you just y- you know how to look after each other, how to keep each other happy, and, um, and even, like, and because he's just, like, so amazing that sometimes even if I am, like, upset about something, it's just so minute.

Trevor Noah 1:29:58 Hmm.

Malala Yousafzai 1:29:58 But for him, he cannot see me upset, so he will take it very seriously. He'll just, like, stop everything, and he said, "Let's resolve the issue." And I'm like, "No, it's fine. It's not a big deal."

Trevor Noah 1:30:11 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 1:30:11 "No, nothing is going on. No, I'm fine. We'll, you know, just talk about it later." And he's like, "No. Tell me what happened." And I think one time I told him that when he, um, drinks his, like, protein shake-

Trevor Noah 1:30:26 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:30:27 ... he sort of leaves the glass, and then I pick it up, and I rinse it. So I was like, "This is a big deal. Why do I have to rinse your glass?" And I was like, "Patriarchy, man, all of these things."

Trevor Noah 1:30:37 [laughs]

Malala Yousafzai 1:30:38 I was like, "I'm advocating for girls' rights. I do not want to be an advocate at home." You know, imagine-

Trevor Noah 1:30:44 Oh

Malala Yousafzai 1:30:44 ... like you're fighting a battle, and then suddenly you're like, "I have to fix the guy at home too?"

Trevor Noah 1:30:50 Oh.

Malala Yousafzai 1:30:50 So I was like, "No, nothing." And then I was like, well, you know, my mom was here as well and, like, I just felt so much pressure. And I thought, like-

Trevor Noah 1:30:57 Yeah, I can imagine

Malala Yousafzai 1:30:58 ... it's not that it was just us two. I felt like people were watching us as well, and I thought they were judging us, like, it... And he was like, "Oh, you know," he's like, "Well, but we split work. Like, you know, you do the dishwasher, but I do the, the, the clothes washing, and I do-

Trevor Noah 1:31:12 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:31:12 ... the laundry and all of that." And- And I was like, "Yeah, you kind of do a lot more things than me, that's true, but there's something about the dishes." And I was like, "It's just like my mom also, like, noticed it." And then he said, like, "Yeah, sort of like you're right. Yeah, of course I should like, you know, pick up the dishes-

Trevor Noah 1:31:30 Uh-huh, uh-huh

Malala Yousafzai 1:31:30 ... or whatever I use and, and put them in the dishwasher." Like, that point onwards, it's been like two, three years now, I have never seen him, like, leave his, um-

Trevor Noah 1:31:41 Oh, wow

Malala Yousafzai 1:31:41 ... glass. Yeah. Um-

Trevor Noah 1:31:44 I mean, then the human rights speech worked.

Malala Yousafzai 1:31:47 You know, it's just me being upset that w- just making a, you know, it, a big drama. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:31:52 Little bit of drama goes a long way.

Malala Yousafzai 1:31:53 I wish I could, I wish I could do the same outside, like, 122 million girls out of school.

Malala Yousafzai 1:31:59 What are you guys doing? I'm not gonna talk to you.

Trevor Noah 1:32:01 Yeah, just trauma.

Malala Yousafzai 1:32:02 This is what I want to tell l- leaders. Why would you not invest in girls education? Why would you not p- put money in there when you know the benefits are exponential? It will improve economies. It will reduce poverty. It will help tackle climate change. It will help create a better, safer future. Why is it that 120 million girls do not have the right to be in school?

Trevor Noah 1:32:30 What do they say to you when you ask them these questions?

Malala Yousafzai 1:32:34 I think it's the same old thing, like, "In the f- last five years we have committed more than-"

Trevor Noah 1:32:40 Oh, committed

Malala Yousafzai 1:32:41 ... "this many million-"

Trevor Noah 1:32:41 They love committed

Malala Yousafzai 1:32:42 ... "dollars."

Trevor Noah 1:32:42 Yeah, yeah, committed.

Malala Yousafzai 1:32:43 "And we are committed more than ever."

Trevor Noah 1:32:46 Pledging and committing, yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:32:48 And we know that there's a huge gap in funding for education. Climate related events, these wars and conflicts are worsening it. Afghanistan is the most extreme case because when the Taliban took power in, uh, four years ago, they immediately announced a ban on girls education.

Trevor Noah 1:33:07 Mm.

Malala Yousafzai 1:33:07 Girls are not allowed to be in school beyond grade six. Women cannot be in universities. Women cannot work. They cannot be in the parliament. They cannot play sports. They cannot go see a doctor without a male chaperone. They cannot visit a park. They cannot even speak loudly when they're inside their houses. That's how much the Taliban are controlling the lives of women, from their voices, to how they dress, to their movement. It is like the most systemic oppressive regime that the women are living under right now, and it's painful to see it happening every day.

Trevor Noah 1:33:45 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:33:46 Very painful to see it. And the Afghan women are, like, living it. Um, and, uh, but in this time when I think about the bravery and the courage of the Afghan women who are standing up to the Taliban, and they want to, like, reclaim the old lives they had. It's not that these, you know, women had a, um, were sort of used to this culture. No, they had fought really hard for their right to be working, to be in school, and the Taliban just suddenly took all of that away from them. Afghan activists are calling it a gender apartheid.

Trevor Noah 1:34:20 Hmm.

Malala Yousafzai 1:34:21 That this is systemic oppression in which women are oppressed simply based on their gender. If they were born a boy, they would have a different life.

Trevor Noah 1:34:29 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:34:29 But they are born a girl, they cannot be in school, they cannot imagine to work, and it's the Taliban who are determining their lives and restricting them to the four walls of their houses. They are erasing women from public life in any political participation.

Trevor Noah 1:34:46 Hmm.

Malala Yousafzai 1:34:46 They're literally erasing women. And, and they're punishing women for disobeying any of these rules. That's the most important thing because people often think that gender discrimination is a problem in a lot of countries and in, in the Global South-

Trevor Noah 1:35:05 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:35:05 ... or that, you know, these things happen, it's culture, it's this and that. And I'm not saying that that is not a reality. Of course that is, and things weren't perfect for women and, uh, and girls in Afghanistan before the Taliban. But what's different under the Taliban regime is that it is systemic. The people who are supposed to protect civilians, the people who are supposed to give justice to women and girls, are the ones who are the perpetrators. They are committing the crimes. It is systemic crime where they are abusing their power. And in cases like these, where do the women go? Because i- it, h- they can't seek justice from the Taliban.

Trevor Noah 1:35:43 Yeah, there's, there's no one.

Malala Yousafzai 1:35:44 The Taliban police are the ones who are arresting them for simply daring to learn, or go to a secret school, or protest, or simply go to work. So many of these households are run by women. Women are the, are the breadwinners, and the Taliban just do not allow them to work. So it's a very difficult, um, place for, for women right now, but I'm always inspired by their resilience and their courage and how they're fighting back. The activists who are in exile are doing advocacy globally, from codifying gender apartheid, to bringing women's issues to the stage, to also pushing for the inclusion of women and girls on the agenda-

Trevor Noah 1:36:26 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 1:36:26 ... where any peace talks and dialogues are happening. To also women being present in those rooms where decisions about the future of Afghanistan are made.

Trevor Noah 1:36:34 Right.

Malala Yousafzai 1:36:35 Um, and at the same time, they are, like, running projects in the country as well. So at Malala Fund we are supporting both. We are giving grants to organizations who are putting pressure on leaders to hold the Taliban accountable, and at the same time we are also giving grants to organizations who are providing alternative education, from radios to television, to underground schools-

Trevor Noah 1:36:56 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:36:56 ... to, like, offline and online platforms. We're, we're using everything that we can to keep girls learning, as many as we can.

Trevor Noah 1:37:04 I, uh, I can't help but wonder as you're saying that, you know, oftentimes when we are told these stories, if you live in a country like the United States or the UK or, you know, any of the, the more powerful nations Oftentimes it sounds like people are saying, "Well, invade," or, you know, it swings between two worlds

Malala Yousafzai 1:37:25 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:37:25 ... either fully come in with a militarized force or do nothing. It's a binary that, that reduces, um, the solution down to only two when it feels like it could be more nuanced. So when, when you're, when you're looking at the situation, you know, you're talking to activists-

Malala Yousafzai 1:37:39 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:37:39 ... and you're talking to advocates, what, what are some of the things you think world leaders could actually be doing beyond going in and then just, you know, creating more war and more turmoil?

Malala Yousafzai 1:37:50 I think for me it was never about whether the military should have stayed there forever or-

Trevor Noah 1:37:55 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:37:55 ... for me it was about how they left.

Trevor Noah 1:38:00 Yeah, definitely.

Malala Yousafzai 1:38:01 And in what state they left the country. They did not give power to the local people. Um, I think the US just suddenly brought the Taliban out of nowhere to these peace talks, like, so-called peace talks. Um, the Taliban had little control, and suddenly the US was like, "We're gonna leave, and we're gonna bring you back so we can negotiate with you." Like, negotiate on what? And Afghan women and girls, uh, were not included. Their issues were not really brought up. They were pushed aside. And what's happening in Afghanistan is because of what the Taliban are doing right now, but I think the countries who let that happen and who are still silent and looking away are also complicit.

Trevor Noah 1:38:47 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:38:48 They should also be held accountable, and that's why I think that campaigns like codifying gender apartheid in the Crime Against Humanity Treaty or just, like, really questioning our international law is important because, like, when such horrible things happen, like, you know, I, I think about the girls. I'm like, is anybody thinking about them? Why are the Taliban getting away with it four years, and somehow we are still saying if and but and this and that, and, and leaders are sometimes just issuing a statement saying, um, "Yes, Afghan women deserve a better future," and, and, and that's it. They don't do anything.

Trevor Noah 1:39:29 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:39:29 They're not putting any pressure on the Taliban. They are ... Some countries are even normalizing their relationships with Afghanistan.

Trevor Noah 1:39:37 Oh, wow, I didn't know that.

Malala Yousafzai 1:39:39 And, uh, and, and the women are still, even in the last UN talks between the Taliban and the UN representatives in Doha, Afghan women and girls were excluded. That was 2024. [laughs] I had a call with the, um, with the UN secretary general, and I highlighted this, that we cannot decide the future of Afghan women when they're not present in the rooms. They are half of the population. Anything that's decided about the future of Afghanistan is also about their futures, so they must be included. Um, I think it's, you know, it's about solidarity and support for each other. We need to share more empathy. We need to share their stories, and sometimes we feel helpless. You know, what can we do? I think there are options out there from supporting the Afghan activists to their organizations or asking your representatives and, and your governments about what they're doing. Um, and i- it, but sometimes it's just simply sharing their stories, simply paying attention to, like, or just stopping for a second and, and learning about what's happening in Afghanistan is a form of solidarity.

Trevor Noah 1:40:59 Yeah, I think it's, it's providing a complexity and a human side to a statistic, you know?

Malala Yousafzai 1:41:06 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:41:06 So that it's not just a statistic. If, if, if anything, that's, that's one of the lessons that I learned from reading, you know, your book now is it reminded me that we all have an obligation, in a beautiful way, by the way. You know, not, not as, like, a task-

Malala Yousafzai 1:41:21 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:41:21 ... but in a beautiful way to think of ourselves as the people we're trying to help.

Malala Yousafzai 1:41:25 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:41:26 You know? And it actually, it actually made me wonder if your journey, you know, the Malala who goes to Birmingham, the Malala who then goes and studies in Oxford, the Malala who starts an, an organization, the Malala who falls in love, who gets married-

Malala Yousafzai 1:41:42 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:41:42 ... as, as you got to explore and, and, um, you know, flesh out these parts of yourselves as fully as you have, do you think that's reinvigorated your, your fight? Do you think that's made you wanna go back even more because it's, it shows you how much more there is to fight for?

Malala Yousafzai 1:42:00 I think I started my journey as an activist as an idealist.

Trevor Noah 1:42:05 Hmm.

Malala Yousafzai 1:42:05 And that's partly because I was very young when I became an activist. Now I'm 28, and I have experienced so much more than when I was 11 or 15, and that visionary, optimistic child Malala is, is still in there, but I feel there's a bit more cynical and skeptical Malala [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:42:30 Oh, wow, yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:42:31 ... who has also seen rejections, rejections we always remember-

Trevor Noah 1:42:35 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 1:42:35 ... who has seen setbacks, how the whole country of Afghanistan can be, uh, a place for women and girls where they do not have any rights. They suddenly become second-class citizens.

Trevor Noah 1:42:48 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:42:49 To seeing how still we are so behind on creating a world where every child can be in school and can have the opportunity to learn.

Trevor Noah 1:42:59 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:42:59 Like, it's, it should be a right. Nobody should be in any way limited in learning. It's the simple right to, like, be able to read a book, write.

Trevor Noah 1:43:08 Yeah, it's a, it's crazy that it's even considered a luxury in many ways.

Malala Yousafzai 1:43:12 You know, just if you think about it.

Trevor Noah 1:43:13 Yeah.

Malala Yousafzai 1:43:13 And I know with technology things are changing, and it's a different story in, like, developed countries, but I'm like, whatever you wanna call it, online or homeschooling-

Trevor Noah 1:43:22 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:43:22 ... or whatever you wanna call it, that debate is separate, but it's just this right to learn. And to see how many millions of girls and children are denied this right is shocking. Like, we're still living in this time. We are making progress on so many things, and still we are leaving, like, this, this generation of children, um, without an education. So I think that's like, it's the foundation. It's the foundation of who we become and what opportunities we can have in life

Trevor Noah 1:43:53 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 1:43:53 It's a step towards progress. It's a step towards more prosperous, um, economy, and there's so many benefits, and for me it's, you know, it's like the reality of the world we are living in right now, that with an education, I believe girls can make decisions about their life, and they can choose their own future. That's the most important thing

Trevor Noah 1:44:16 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:44:16 We cannot let them be in a place where their future is decided by somebody else

Trevor Noah 1:44:20 Yeah, let them be the main characters in their stories

Malala Yousafzai 1:44:22 Or about, about the cu- you know, or their culture or-

Trevor Noah 1:44:23 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:44:23 ... you know, whoever it is, elders or whatever that is. It, it's them making those choices for themselves without pressure, without judgment, um, that they can be free souls

Trevor Noah 1:44:34 I really love that, and I, and I appreciate you sharing that. I, um, I think that was, that was my favorite takeaway, and it, it sort of ties everything up perfectly. You know, when I read the book, you know, some of the main themes I thought of was, one, we should never take for granted the power and value of belonging

Malala Yousafzai 1:44:52 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:44:54 For ourselves and our lives

Malala Yousafzai 1:44:55 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:44:55 For the communities we're in, for the societies we build, uh, you know, for refugees, for immigrants

Malala Yousafzai 1:45:01 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:45:01 Like, nobody doesn't want to be where they're from

Malala Yousafzai 1:45:03 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:45:03 Nobody doesn't wanna be with their people

Malala Yousafzai 1:45:05 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:45:06 And if we remember that, we then try and make sure that their worlds are better

Malala Yousafzai 1:45:09 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:45:09 So that they can be in their world

Malala Yousafzai 1:45:10 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:45:10 Instead of fighting with them coming into our world

Malala Yousafzai 1:45:13 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:45:13 And then the other one that, that I, I really enjoyed you sharing is that it's always a work in progress. You know?

Malala Yousafzai 1:45:19 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:45:19 It's like we, we find you at this moment in time as Malala, and we'll find you at another moment in time in the future, and we'll find... But in the same way you as a person are, are, are, you know, a work in progress, all of these issues, life is a work in progress. We're still, we're still trying to figure it out. We're still trying to, you know, we'll see.

Malala Yousafzai 1:45:35 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:45:35 Do we wanna wear jeans, or do we not wanna wear jeans?

Malala Yousafzai 1:45:38 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:45:38 You know? We'll, we'll figure it out as we go. So yeah, I appreciate you sharing it.

Malala Yousafzai 1:45:42 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:45:42 Thank you

Malala Yousafzai 1:45:43 For me, I, I see a sense of belonging in a very different way than I used to. I thought it was always about the place where you were born, where you spent your childhood

Trevor Noah 1:45:51 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:45:52 And now with time, I'm realizing that I have actually spent a lot more time outside Pakistan-

Trevor Noah 1:45:58 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:45:58 ... than I have inside Pakistan. But that strong bond and connection with the country where I was born can

Malala Yousafzai 1:46:06 never be taken away

Trevor Noah 1:46:07 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:46:07 Even if I spend the rest of my life somewhere on Mars, it can never be taken away. I feel like a part of me belongs to that soil, to that air, like, like I'm there. Like my soul is somehow there

Trevor Noah 1:46:21 It is. But it is. I genuinely believe that it is

Malala Yousafzai 1:46:23 Yeah. And, and when I visited my, my parents' village, Shangla, where we had built a school and I wanted to visit their school-

Trevor Noah 1:46:29 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:46:29 ... and just see the girls, like the first class that were graduating, but I also saw the graveyard of my grandmother, Abba-

Trevor Noah 1:46:36 Mm

Malala Yousafzai 1:46:36 ... who was so dear to me, and I just could not imagine losing her because I thought she was somebody who was praying for me all the time. I felt safe when she was there. And when she was gone, I immediately felt that something had gone missing in my life

Trevor Noah 1:46:52 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:46:53 But when I visited her grave, I realized that she was there. She was there in, in the air. And, and, and I just felt her presence, and I felt her prayers. Um, but now, like I'm, I'm, I'm traveling. I am spending time with my friends, with my husband, and I don't find that home and belonging, uh, just in the places and the locations where I am, but it's among the people

Trevor Noah 1:47:20 That's the idea

Malala Yousafzai 1:47:22 It, it's, it's with my siblings, that little fight that we have

Trevor Noah 1:47:25 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:47:25 The argument. It's with my mom and dad. It's with my husband when we are just binge-watching a TV show. It's everywhere where I meet incredible girls, activists who give me hope, who inspire me, and whose work is really changing the world for, for people out there. I always have this, uh, sense of relief-

Trevor Noah 1:47:51 Yeah

Malala Yousafzai 1:47:51 ... and happiness in my heart when I see-

Trevor Noah 1:47:53 Mm-hmm

Malala Yousafzai 1:47:53 ... the work of other people, and I know they're doing so much more that we don't see, that we don't hear about. But they are changing the lives of people. They're changing their communities. And, um, and, you know, and I feel safer, and I feel happier when I see that world, and I think, you know, we should always, like, hold hands together and be in solidarity with, with each other. And I just, for me, ideally, like, this whole globe should be our home, you know? That we are more friendly and more, we're nicer to each other, kinder to each

Malala Yousafzai 1:48:28 other [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:48:28 Yeah. As my, my brother says it the best way. He says, "Whenever you, whenever you feel skeptical and you feel like the whole world is going the wrong way," which it can and many times, he always says, "Go outside and touch grass."

Malala Yousafzai 1:48:39 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:48:39 Just go outside, touch grass. You'll see somebody else on that grass, and that might be the beginning of a new friendship

Malala Yousafzai 1:48:45 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:48:45 And so I, I appreciate you for that. Thank you. Thank you for joining me here

Malala Yousafzai 1:48:49 Thank you so much

Trevor Noah 1:48:49 Thank you for inspiring me

Malala Yousafzai 1:48:50 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:48:50 But also reminding me that you're not only inspirational. I like that. I like to know that you're flawed 'cause it makes me feel a little better about myself

Malala Yousafzai 1:48:57 Oh, you're welcome. Just kidding. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:48:59 [laughs] Thank you so much, Malala

Malala Yousafzai 1:49:03 Thank you

Trevor Noah 1:49:03 This was great. Thank you so much for watching the episode. If you enjoyed it, pass it on to a friend. If you didn't enjoy it, pass it on to your friend still. Let them suffer for a change. And don't forget to engage with us in the comments. Uh, if you wanna, uh, suggest a guest, maybe there's questions you want, maybe there's ideas that you have, you can chat to us. We will read through the comments, and we'll get into it. Either way, I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for hanging out with us on What Now? And remember, we do this for you, so we would like to hear from you. Till next time, thank you