What Now? With Trevor NoahMark Cuban's Billionaire Luck! - What Now? with Trevor Noah Podcast
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
60 min read · 12,238 words- 0:00 – 0:00
Intro
- TNTrevor Noah
[something falls]
- 0:00 – 2:43
Blacksmithing in Montana and the running “Josh will crash” gag
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
That is a, another crash by Josh Johnson. This is, this is all this episode-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
... is gonna be about is-
- SPSpeaker
I'm very sorry
- TNTrevor Noah
... will Josh Johnson make it to the end of the episode?
- SPSpeaker
The drama in that hotel room.
- TNTrevor Noah
Everyone who's driving right now is, is, is, like, gripping their steering wheel tight. [upbeat music]
- SPSpeaker
This is What Now? with Trevor Noah.
- TNTrevor Noah
[upbeat music] Happy Mark Cuban Day, everybody.
- SPSpeaker
Hey.
- SPSpeaker
Whoo. Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Happy Mark-
- SPSpeaker
Mark Cuban.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Billionaire, billionaire-
- SPSpeaker
Woohoo
- SPSpeaker
... billionaire, woo. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, man. How was your week, Josh? What'd you get up to?
- SPSpeaker
I'm doing great, man. I'm... Oh, I'm in, I'm in Montana. I did blacksmithing for the first time yesterday. I'm, I'm a new person.
- TNTrevor Noah
What do you mean you did blacksmithing for the first time? What does that even mean?
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
That's a strange way to say you did somebody's job, and then, like-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
I did a, I did accounting for the first time yesterday, and it was a lot of fun. It was really good.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. The way that-
- TNTrevor Noah
I think I might be an accountant now.
- 2:43 – 4:04
Laptop battery drama: will Josh survive the episode?
- SPSpeaker
One second. Sorry.
- SPSpeaker
What just happened?
- TNTrevor Noah
What, what's... Are you okay?
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yes.
- SPSpeaker
What's going on?
- SPSpeaker
Yes. I'm-
- SPSpeaker
His wrist-
- SPSpeaker
No, no, no
- SPSpeaker
... is injured.
- SPSpeaker
I'm fine.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
His wrist is cramping. What's going on, Josh?
- SPSpeaker
I, uh, my, my, uh, computer was about to die, so I, I had to grab the charger.
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, okay.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, okay.
- SPSpeaker
Just ill-prepared.
- TNTrevor Noah
All right.
- SPSpeaker
You know, just-
- SPSpeaker
You're just so-
- SPSpeaker
That sounded-
- SPSpeaker
... in the blacksmith mode, you're not even thinking about the technology anymore.
- SPSpeaker
No, no.
- SPSpeaker
You're just, like, a changed man.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, that was, that was powerful. That was a... You, you had the same reaction that I'm assuming that Boeing pilot had-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
... on the flight right now. That, that's what your face looked like right now. You were, you were having a calm, easy conversation with us, and then all of a sudden you're like, "Oh, God. Oh, God."
- SPSpeaker
Oh, no.
- TNTrevor Noah
"Oh, God."
- SPSpeaker
Let me see. Okay.
- 4:04 – 7:35
Boeing door blowout: humor, fear, and a glimpse of humanity
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, man. Have you been, have you been following the story with the, with the Boeing planes, by the way?
- SPSpeaker
Yes. Yes. I've been-
- TNTrevor Noah
This is-
- SPSpeaker
... enthralled. I've done jokes about it.
- TNTrevor Noah
What's your favorite joke you've told about it?
- SPSpeaker
We really been trashing Spirit for a while now, as Spirit at least get the whole plane there, right?
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
When you pay Spirit, Spirit is then like-
- TNTrevor Noah
Uh
- SPSpeaker
... "Okay, we gonna get you and the plane there." And then you, you are on this Alaska Air flight, pieces of the plane start coming off, and you're like, "Well, I did pay $68." Like, it, like, it just is one of those things where I think as Americans, we are too bloodied from our customer service experiences that we don't even think we deserve full plane.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
That's funny. By the way, I was thinking if I was, if I was the passenger sitting next to the passenger that the door opened on... 'Cause it was a really beautiful story. I don't, I don't know if you, if you saw any of the videos of the passengers, one of them was, made a video-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... and she was talking about how she was sitting in the window. Well, it, it's a window that was a door that then turned into, like, an, like, an exit.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
And, and she was sitting there, the thing blew off, and then the passengers around her, like, held her. Like, like, they grabbed her arms and they pulled her inwards. I was like, that is real- That is a te- Every time we think that humanity is terrible, we receive information to the contrary.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
You know?
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Because I, I won't lie to you, I don't know what I would do in that situation, but what I think I would do is pull my hands away from the person who is at the window.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
I, I do not think I would reach towards them.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, if a, if a door blows open-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
... and there's a stranger next to me, reaching towards me, I would be like, "No, no, my friend. No. No, no. You, you're on, you're on your own right now. This is your journey." You know?
- SPSpeaker
What you just said-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... reminds me of this meme where someone's drowning and their hand is out looking for help, and the person just gives them a high five. It's like, "Bye." [laughs]
- 7:35 – 8:45
Aisle-seat supremacy and petty in-flight power plays
- TNTrevor Noah
I think something good did come out of this, just saying.
- SPSpeaker
The door. The door came out of this.
- TNTrevor Noah
Well.
- SPSpeaker
What was, what was something good?
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
The door definitely came out, but there's a big divide in this country, and I feel like it was a win for one side, and that is my people, the aisle seat people, who are always being told-
- SPSpeaker
You're an aisle seat person?
- TNTrevor Noah
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
I am too, yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
And now I have an extra reason to be an aisle seat person.
- SPSpeaker
Wow.
- TNTrevor Noah
I can get up to the bathroom whenever I want. I have the power to let other people pee or not.
- SPSpeaker
Wow.
- TNTrevor Noah
And now I'm not gonna get sucked out of a plane, so I win. So-
- SPSpeaker
Wow
- TNTrevor Noah
... thanks, Alaska. No one died, so I'm good with it.
- SPSpeaker
To what Emmanuel is saying, there was one time someone was very mean to me on a, on a flight w- before we took off, and I was in the aisle and they were in the middle, and I just pretended to be asleep so they couldn't get up to pee.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] Incredible. Incredible power play.
- TNTrevor Noah
That UTI brought to you by Josh Johnson.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
I just like, I really, like, leaned, 'cause I was already napping on the tray table, and I felt them poke me, and then I was like, "You know what?"
- SPSpeaker
Oh, tray table nap.
- SPSpeaker
I'm like-
- SPSpeaker
That's-
- SPSpeaker
... "I'm not getting up. I'm not getting up"
- TNTrevor Noah
That's amazing, Josh.
- SPSpeaker
"I'm not moving."
- TNTrevor Noah
That is amazing.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- 8:45 – 10:56
Setting up Mark Cuban: questions about beloved billionaires and early acting
- TNTrevor Noah
Do you have any, do you have any questions for, uh, Mark Cuban? Anything you're really interested to, uh, to hear from him?
- SPSpeaker
Yes. You, you read my mind.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
In a world where there is so much lack and, and, uh, and so much of a gap between the sort of have and have-not-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... how does someone like Mark Cuban maintain their status as a beloved billionaire? Because we're in a world now where-
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, that's an interesting question
- SPSpeaker
... he, he, does, he seems to me to be just as industrious as Elon or Bezos, but in different things, and it doesn't seem like-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... his reach has, has offended the general public in the way that Elon and Bezos have.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
How has he managed to have, be so many people's bosses and have so much, uh, power, influence, and, and structure around himself and not drawn the ire of the general public?
- TNTrevor Noah
That's a, that's a great question, Josh.
- SPSpeaker
Sweet.
- TNTrevor Noah
I, I thought you were gonna ask something random.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, no. I've, I've learned my lesson.
- TNTrevor Noah
But it seems like your time blacksmithing-
- SPSpeaker
Oh
- TNTrevor Noah
... your time blacksmithing has changed you. Yeah, Bari?
- SPSpeaker
Well, yeah. I mean, my question is, is he willing to invest in Josh's backpack hooks?
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
'Cause I think it could be... I don't know. It could be really big. So-
- TNTrevor Noah
You see, I feel like what happened here is Josh secretly sent you his question-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
... and you sent him yours, and you've all tricked me here into not realizing where the questions have come from. I know a Josh Johnson question when I smell it.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
I will not be asking him if he'll invest in your backpack hooks. Emmanuel, I'm gonna get one from you, and then we're gonna jump into the interview.
- SPSpeaker
I really wanna hear about before he was super successful in business, he tried to be an actor, and he was in three episodes of Walker, Texas Ranger.
- TNTrevor Noah
Walker, Texas Ranger, yep.
- 10:56 – 12:15
Mark Cuban’s self-image: ‘regular guy’ with old friends and family life
- TNTrevor Noah
All right. Let's jump into it, y'all. Mark Cuban, coming up. [upbeat music] Mark Cuban, the one and only, welcome to the show.
- MCMark Cuban
Thanks for having me on.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, man, it's great, great to have you. You know, you are... When people think of Mark Cuban, they go, "This is a human being who seems to know everything, do everything-
- MCMark Cuban
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
... get involved in everything, and enjoy everything that he's doing." How do you see yourself? 'Cause some people say Mark Cuban, immediately they go billionaire. Others go, uh, you know, Dallas Mavericks owner. Other people go businessman. What, what's the first thing you think of when you think of Mark Cuban?
- MCMark Cuban
Just a regular guy, just, you know, that's been really fortunate, just-
- TNTrevor Noah
Regular?
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah, for real. You know, just a kid from Pittsburgh-
- TNTrevor Noah
Huh
- MCMark Cuban
... that just, you know, has the same friends, you know, gets beat up by my three teenagers. Um, e- enjoys sports. I, I mean, I, I, loves business and techno- I don't know. I mean, I, I guess I don't think about myself that often, you know? [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah. Same friends. Are these the same friends that you were selling, um, you know, trash bags with-
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... when you were a kid, or are these the same friends you opened the, uh-
- MCMark Cuban
The bar with?
- TNTrevor Noah
The, the bar with?
- MCMark Cuban
All the above.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah. So in Pittsburgh, yeah, I still got Stu, the Big Man, Bofy, Seymour, you know, all the, all the, the nicknames you have. And we, you know, we do a Zoom call every two weeks, but still, those are my buddies.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- 12:15 – 15:59
Early hustle and the billionaire truth: luck is non-negotiable
- TNTrevor Noah
Let's, let's talk a little bit about that, the, the young Mark Cuban. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm oftentimes most, um, most intrigued by the, you know, the origin story of a very successful person. And, and yours intrigues me because, you know, you hear the story of this kid who grows up in, um, you know, in this area that doesn't seem particularly special.
- MCMark Cuban
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Right? It seems like just like every town America, everyone's going into work, doing their thing, living their life, and you had in you this insatiable attitude and idea of, I guess, making money or-
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... what would you say your drive is? Is it, is it making money or finding opportunity?
- MCMark Cuban
Well, initially it was just making money because, I mean, my dad and my mom, I mean, my dad did upholstery on cars, my mom did odd jobs, and, you know, as long as I can remember it was like, "Okay, if you want something, you're gonna have to go earn it, and you're gonna have to earn the money to do it."
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- MCMark Cuban
Um, and that's just driven me. I mean, from selling baseball cards when I was 9 and 10 years old to selling garbage bags door to door, selling magazines door to door, it always involved selling. And, you know, I, honestly, if you can sell something door to door, your confidence goes through the roof, and you just learn how to deal with things, and you learn how to build your, you know, to interact with people and, and to be nice. And so-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- MCMark Cuban
... I think those things really drove me.
- TNTrevor Noah
Huh. I, I used to sell things when I was a kid. I used to, um, had a pirated CD business, um-
- MCMark Cuban
Beautiful
- TNTrevor Noah
... you know, allegedly.
- MCMark Cuban
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
That's what my lawyers have actually say, allegedly. [laughs]
- MCMark Cuban
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
So I, I used to sell, I used to sell, um, music, you know, like, when, when CD writing was still a very new concept.
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
And I know you were also, like, you, I mean, you coded and you were in tech and everything, but I, I loved this idea that you could create from nothing. You had-
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... this, um, this new technology that could connect people in, in ways, and the computer was this novel idea. I sold things. I connected with people. I-- a lot of your story I can relate to except for the part where you become a billionaire.
- MCMark Cuban
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
I need to, I need to understand, I need to understand what steps I missed. What, what mistakes did I make?
- MCMark Cuban
That's the luck part. I mean, anybody who's a billionaire who thinks they could just do it all over again is lying their ass off. I mean, you know-
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, interesting.
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah, for sure, because, you know, if the internet stock market hadn't just taken off when we were starting Audionet, you wouldn't even know who I was.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- MCMark Cuban
That's just, you know, that's just the way it works. And, you know, I think could I be a millionaire multiple times over? Yeah, because I could hustle, I could sell, I was smart, but the whole billionaire side of it, the hundreds of millions of dollars, that's just insane, and that was luck.
- TNTrevor Noah
Man, I like, I like this. You know, I don't think I've, I've ever heard anybody say that, is like, "You can make money, you can do well, but being a billionaire is just luck. Right time, right place, everything." So if, so if literally if I started you again, with all your knowledge today, you don't think you could be a billionaire?
- MCMark Cuban
No. No, unless I got lucky again, right? I mean, could I find-
- 15:59 – 17:54
Curiosity as a moat: reading, learning, and treating jobs as paid education
- TNTrevor Noah
What do you, what do you think, um, you need to possess to spot opportunity, you know? And, and this is outside the realm of being a billionaire, but what do you, what do you think it was inside you? Did you get it from your parents? Did you get it from your community? What was it that helped Mark realize that there were gaps in every market? 'Cause you, you were selling stuff when you were a kid.
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
How do you, how do you see those gaps?
- MCMark Cuban
I mean, I was just the most curious person you could ever imagine. I mean, I just loved to learn. I was that kid that was just reading everything I could get my hands on about business and-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- MCMark Cuban
... if you read enough, you, you're gonna learn something to your advantage.
- TNTrevor Noah
Whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait. Go back. Go back.
- MCMark Cuban
Sure.
- TNTrevor Noah
Go back. You said you were reading about business as a kid?
- MCMark Cuban
Oh, yeah. Like, I was 10, 11, 12, you know, you name it. I, I was reading-
- TNTrevor Noah
You see, this is the difference
- MCMark Cuban
... yeah, business books all the time.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- MCMark Cuban
You know? There was this kid, Barry Minkow, and he started this, um, um, this carpet cleaning company, Z- ZZZ Best Carpet Cleaning, right? And he took a company-
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay
- MCMark Cuban
... public when he was 21 years old, and there was a book written about him. But the thing about it was it was completely a fraud, and so he made all these tens of millions, if not $100 million as a 21-year-old kid running this company just fooling everybody and anybody he talked to. And I read that book as a kid and I was thinking, "You know, if this kid can fool all these adults, p-put aside the fraud, that just means there, there's lots-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- MCMark Cuban
... of opportunity there to do something and build a business." And how old you are doesn't mean a, doesn't mean anything, right? If you can, if you can figure it out. And so I just always just took that and said, you know, I just keep on learning from what other people do and learn from their mistakes and learn what they do right.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- MCMark Cuban
Get a job, learn from y- you know, I, I would tell myself, you know, you pay to go to college, but then after you get a job, you get paid to learn. And I always-- that's the way I looked at the jobs that I got, the way I looked at the jobs I got fired from. You know, everything was a learning experience, and sooner or later it added up to something of value.
- 17:54 – 20:57
Why corporate life didn’t fit: initiative vs. rigid structure
- TNTrevor Noah
One of the biggest things I've, I've noticed in your story that's similar to a lot of people who are really successful is you, you, you never fit in, though.
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
You never seem to fit in into, like, a, a strict corporate structure.
- MCMark Cuban
No, that's for sure.
- TNTrevor Noah
You know, like, I know one of, one of your jobs you got fired from and you vowed, you were like, "I'm never going back into corporate America again." Like-
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... what do you think it is about corporate America that doesn't work for you and other people who are, who are, like, entrepreneurs or, or really business-minded?
- MCMark Cuban
I think structure and limits. I re- [laughs] so one of my first jobs out of college, I went to work at Mellon Bank in Pittsburgh, and again-
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay
- MCMark Cuban
... I'm, I'm reading everything I could, and there was this old magazine called Ent- um, Entrepreneur Magazine And there was an article about how companies can save money on their social security taxes. So what do I do? I buy a copy, I earmark it, I write a little note on it, and I send it to the CEO at this huge Mellon bank, I mean, with thousands and thousands-
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- MCMark Cuban
... of employees. And I get a note back saying, "Thank you. It's not quite a fit." But my boss was like, "What the hell are you doing?" And then I started this, I started the-
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- MCMark Cuban
... rookie club, right? Where I would take, I would get all the other people who had just started with me, and I would go find a senior level executive, and we'd take him out and get him drunk or her drunk, and just sit there and chitchat. And my boss, John Whitman-
- TNTrevor Noah
That is hilarious
- MCMark Cuban
... I'll, I'll never forget, he calls me into his office. He goes, "What the fuck are you doing?" And literally-
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- MCMark Cuban
... no lie, like, I start to, like, I tear up and I start to cry, and I tell, "Oh, sorry, my contacts are bothering me," because he's just yelling at me-
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- MCMark Cuban
... nonstop, and I'm 22 years old. And like, I'm just trying to do the best I can to help my company make more money, and it's just, that's, that's, that's the delta, right? That's the difference because I, I didn't look at it as just a job that I just wanted and I was gonna work 9:00 to 5:00-
- TNTrevor Noah
Uh-huh
- MCMark Cuban
... and just see where I can go.
- TNTrevor Noah
Uh-huh.
- MCMark Cuban
To me, it was an opportunity, and my only mission was to help my company make more money, and my, my peers and my, um, my bosses didn't quite see it that way.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, you, you know, it's funny, when, when you say it like that, it, it, it brings me to an idea that I often speak about with my friends, which is I don't think anybody's not successful, or I don't think anybody's not good at doing something. I just think that most of us aren't afforded the opportunity to do the thing that we are good at for money.
- MCMark Cuban
Well, most people-
- TNTrevor Noah
And it seems like you were lucky enough to be in that position, right?
- MCMark Cuban
You're 100% right. And for a lot of people, they can't even find what that one thing is. I, I really truly believe that we're all God-given gifted at something. The hard part is-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- MCMark Cuban
... is finding it and having the confidence to try it. Um, and-
- 20:57 – 24:18
Raising kids with wealth and the myth of ‘billionaire routines’
- TNTrevor Noah
Do you, do you think you're raising normal, well-adjusted kids?
- MCMark Cuban
That's the hope. [laughs] That's the plan.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- MCMark Cuban
You know, you get unsolicited comments from friends, or not even friends, but just people-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- MCMark Cuban
... your kids come in contact with and, you know-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- MCMark Cuban
... they, they say they're good kids, and they are good kids, but you know, they do the math. [laughs] You know?
- TNTrevor Noah
Right. Right.
- MCMark Cuban
They, they read the stories and, and so they know what's coming their way. And so, um, as much as we try to keep them grounded, we're not, you know, we're not a household that has servants and somebody doing everything for you all the time. It's just, you know, we try to just live as normally as we can having a plane.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, and that's, that's, that's the thing, right? There's still those little, little things that jump out at you.
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
You know, it's funny, one of the funniest stories I, I remember was, um, I was t- I was speaking to Jerry Seinfeld about, um, how you raise normal kids when you're living an extraordinary life. And, and he said to me, [laughs] and I mean, you know, Jerry's one of the funniest people ever.
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
And he says to me, he goes, what he does is he always reminds his kids that he's rich-
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah, he's [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
... they're not rich.
- MCMark Cuban
I've done the same thing many, many times, just like we were talking about tattoos, and I said, "Tattoo on you? No, you, and will." [laughs] You know?
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- MCMark Cuban
Just stuff like that. For sure.
- TNTrevor Noah
This is something that's always fascinated me. What's, what's, what's your day, what's your routine like? I'm, I'm constantly bombarded with these, they always pop up on social media, and it's like, "Live like a billionaire. Wake up at 4:00 AM. Be up before the sun. Go to sleep before the sun goes down."
- MCMark Cuban
No.
- TNTrevor Noah
"Drink coffee that has butter in it."
- MCMark Cuban
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
What's, what's your routine, Mark?
- MCMark Cuban
Um, I get up probably 7:00, 6:30, 7:00, just depending on the day.
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, I like this. I like this already.
- MCMark Cuban
Lay in bed, look at my emails.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay.
- MCMark Cuban
'Cause I try to do-
- 24:18 – 26:44
Is the world getting better? Information echo chambers vs. hope in Gen Z
- TNTrevor Noah
We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break. [upbeat music] Well, you know, Mark, one of the reasons I wanted to chat with you on the podcast is because I honestly believe there are, there are few people out there who, um, have more interesting opinions- And not just opinions, but opinions that are based in experience or in some way, shape, or form attached to what's actually happening in the world than Mark Cuban. You know, w- whether it's sports, we can talk about that, whether it's politics, we can talk about that. We talk about, you know, business, um, you know, e- everything, even medicine.
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
And that's- that's something I, I'm really fascinated about. I, I really wanna get into it with you.
- MCMark Cuban
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
But you, you, you're somebody who, if, if I try and sum you up, Mark Cuban, in my opinion, is somebody who has always been in touch with what's happening in the world and trying to figure out what it means for both themselves and the people living in that world. So-
- MCMark Cuban
Thank you
- TNTrevor Noah
... when you look at the world right now, like, what's, what's your, w- what's your feeling on it? Do, do you think things are getting better? Do you think things are staying the same? Or do you think things are getting worse?
- MCMark Cuban
So it's, there's tactical and there's strategic, big picture, right? Tactically, things are worse.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay.
- MCMark Cuban
Right? Because, you know, how we consume information has changed dramatically over the past five years even. Uh, you know, and it continues-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- MCMark Cuban
... to change, and I think that's a real problem, and that's led to a lot of people falling into their own echo chamber and, and disassociating with each other. And, and that's a problem. But on, on the bright side, what I see in my kids, I'm very positive.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- MCMark Cuban
Other than climate change always being a topic, you know, th- they're positive about the future. You know? They're excited-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- MCMark Cuban
... and, and I feel good about them and the impact that they can have. So on one hand, when I look at Gen Z and our kids, I'm, I'm, I'm really positive and excited. On the other hand-
- TNTrevor Noah
Right
- MCMark Cuban
... when I, when I look at adults, you know, it reminds me of, you know, I'm, I'm a baby boomer, and it's, what a disappointment my generation has turned into. We started off really, really good with sex, drugs, and rock and roll, you know? And we started off, you know, protesting the Vietnam War, and yada, yada, yada.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- MCMark Cuban
And now we're the Fox News generation going down the rabbit holes. And, and that's kinda disappointing. But you know, again, Father Time is undefeated, and the kids that are, you know, the kids are our future. I know every, every parent, every generation says that, but I truly believe it.
- 26:44 – 29:40
Boeing, DEI scapegoating, and why hiring is mostly guessing
- TNTrevor Noah
Let me, let me ask you this. Like, I'd love to know how you think you've maintained this ability to both be honest, but then also find a way to grow within the views that you have. Because, you know, um, I s- I saw a post of yours. It's funny, I think both of u- both of us comment on it in different ways, but, like, you know, this, this whole, um, Boeing, uh-
- MCMark Cuban
Right
- TNTrevor Noah
... the Boeing plane where the, the, the, you know, the door blew off.
- MCMark Cuban
The door.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah. And everyone's been speaking about that. And it was really fascinating how a lot of people online, and I think many of them s- spurred on by Elon Musk, started talking about how, "Oh, you see, this is what happens when you have diversity. Boeing started having diversity-"
- MCMark Cuban
[laughs] Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... "and the planes started falling apart."
- MCMark Cuban
Right.
- TNTrevor Noah
And you, you wrote this amazing post. You just, you just laid out the facts. You said, "Hey, first of all, this is not what diversity is. Diversity's about expanding our scope to make sure that everyone gets looked at for the hiring."
- MCMark Cuban
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Because a lot of people weren't looked at for the hiring. And then you said something that I really, really loved, that I, I hope m- m- more people think about. You said, "We need to..." And I'm paraphrasing. You basically said, "We need to let go of the notion that we know who will be right for every job, and understand that most of the time we are guessing based on-"
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... "a set of parameters that we've chosen." What, what do you, what did you mean by that?
- MCMark Cuban
So as, as an entrepreneur and somebody who has hired forever and then actually learned I'm really bad at hiring and turned it over to others, um, most jobs, 99% of jobs, it's impossible to tell which candidate out of however many is the best. You know, if you're hiring a barista, how do you know who the best barista is? Do you give them-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- MCMark Cuban
... you know, do you put them behind a counter and say, "How fast can you make that mocha?" You know, it just, you, you just don't know. If you're hiring for a sales rep, maybe you can look at their history, but until, when you put them in this new position, you don't know. And there's a reason-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- MCMark Cuban
... why they're willing to leave their last job, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so 99% of the time when you're hiring, it's a guess. And so the whole idea that you can just use merit to make a determination in how you hire for every job is just wrong. And anybody who's hired, you know, quite a few positions just, just knows that. And so, you know, and I, I wanted to get that out there because it was on Twitter X, right? And you, the way it's all set up there, it's, you know, it's Elon's little echo chamber that rewards people that, that he rewards.
- TNTrevor Noah
Right. Right.
- MCMark Cuban
And so I knew I was going into the lion's den and that I was just, people were just gonna shit on me left and right, which exactly why I wrote it, right? Because that made it more interesting, more fun. Um-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- MCMark Cuban
... but it also, that was the audience that needed to hear it. And, and if there was, you know, one light that, light bulb that came on, that's a win.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, man, I, I, I, I really, I really appreciate that about you. The w- the way you think about the world, it's really interesting. It's dynamic. Um, obviously, obviously I also love it because you're involved in, in sport. You said something about, about sports as well in that post where you said, "As somebody who's worked in sports for a long time, I've realized even if you draft the best player, they may not end up being the best player, and some of the undrafted players go on to be the best players."
- 29:40 – 33:17
NBA realities: training innovation, and the outsized role of luck
- MCMark Cuban
Correct.
- TNTrevor Noah
What do you, what do you think, what do you think of the current players that, that have been drafted? I mean, Victor Wembanyama, that seems like-
- MCMark Cuban
He's great
- TNTrevor Noah
... it was the right choice.
- MCMark Cuban
Oh, yeah, he's great.
- TNTrevor Noah
He's phenomenal.
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah, he's f- he's phenomenal, right? I mean, we've got a great young crop of players who, who are, are just getting better. The league is really competitive, um, on any given night. And what's interesting, Trevor, social media has acted, in some respects, as a training course. Like, when I was a kid growing up, there were no trainers. You didn't, you know, you, you just went to your basketball team or football team and whatever, whenever-
- TNTrevor Noah
Right
- MCMark Cuban
... you had practice, and then you worked on your game maybe some afterwards. Now there's instructional videos online for every position in every sport, and the skill levels-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, that's true. Yeah
- MCMark Cuban
... are going, the skill levels are going higher and higher and higher.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- MCMark Cuban
And so the qu- and that, so the players are better, the quality of the games are better, and I, and I think that's overall a positive.
- TNTrevor Noah
What do you think fans do not understand about the running of a team? Because as fans, there is no denying that we all think we can do a much better job than every team owner and every manager that exists-
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah, for sure
- TNTrevor Noah
... for every single... If you're a fan, you sit watching the games, whether you're at the stadium or whether you're at home, and you go, "Why didn't they do this?"
- MCMark Cuban
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
"Why didn't they get that player?"
- MCMark Cuban
[laughs] Trust me, I know, right?
- TNTrevor Noah
"Why didn't they... These idiots don't know what they're doing."
- MCMark Cuban
Amen.
- TNTrevor Noah
What do you, what do you, what do you think- ... fans don't know that that might change their perspective on what it means to actually run a team?
- MCMark Cuban
I don't know if it'll change their perspective, but I think they don't truly understand the impact of luck, you know? Um, I'll give you the all-time luck story, like Steph Curry, arguably one of the-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- MCMark Cuban
... top 10 players, top five players of all time. When he first got started, he, there was a backcourt made of his, Monte Ellis, who ended up playing for the Mavs actually, also very good, maybe even a little better than Steph at the time. And, um, Golden State d- was getting ready to do a trade with the Milwaukee Bucks for Andrew Bogut. They gave the Milwaukee Bucks the choice of Steph Curry or Monte Ellis. If the Bucks had taken Steph Curry, history is written completely differently in the NBA. Luck is just such a huge component.
- TNTrevor Noah
Wow.
- MCMark Cuban
Luck is such a huge impact in sports, every sport.
- TNTrevor Noah
Right.
- MCMark Cuban
And I don't think fans truly appreciate that. You know, as much as the f- as fans we think we're smart, as owners sometimes we think we're smart, general managers-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, yeah
- 33:17 – 38:26
Politics in sports, then major career moves: Mavericks stake sale and Shark Tank exit
- TNTrevor Noah
What do you think of, um, politics in sports? Uh, I, I ask this because, you know, 2024 is, is gonna ramp up. It's gonna gear up to be, I would, I would argue, and I hope I'm wrong, by the way, I think it may be one of the most vicious elections America has been, uh, involved in in a very long time.
- MCMark Cuban
Yep.
- TNTrevor Noah
And, you know, athletes and sports teams are always caught in this strange place where some people believe sports should always remain agnostic. It should only be about sport and, and allow it to be an escape for people. You know, others will say, "No, this is, this is a platform. People have a responsibility. This is where they can speak out." But then the debate becomes what can they speak out about and how much of it can they speak out to? What, what's your opinion on, on, um, athletes and, and, and franchises and, and politics?
- MCMark Cuban
Well, there may be debate, but the reality is when you become a high-profile professional athlete, you don't lose your rights as a citizen. And if it's important to you and what you believe in and you have a platform, of course you're gonna use it. Why wouldn't you?
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- MCMark Cuban
I mean, it's just like you use your platform, I use my platform because we've earned that right to do that, and if it's important to us, we use it. So while I may not agree with what every athlete says across every sport, I certainly respect their right to do so. Um, and in terms of teams, that's, that's a little bit more difficult because no matter what, you're gonna have fans and customers who are on both sides of the aisle or on both sides of any topic.
- TNTrevor Noah
Right, right, right.
- MCMark Cuban
And so, you know, we'll, we'll try to be supportive of the things we truly believe in without going overboard, you know? So we'll put out a statement saying, "Look, this is what we believe and this is what we agree," and then we'll leave it at that, right? We're not gonna go out there and invest in, you know, buying advertising to promote this point of view or anything. We'll use our social media platforms-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
- MCMark Cuban
... make our statement and, and pretty much leave it at that.
- TNTrevor Noah
Help, help me break this down. You're not leaving the team-
- MCMark Cuban
No
- TNTrevor Noah
... but you are selling your majority stake.
- MCMark Cuban
Right. So I still have 27% and I'll still run basketball operations, but the reality is, you know, sports evolve and when I first got in in 2000, technology and media were really the driving factors for revenue, and I, I was good at those things.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- MCMark Cuban
I'm, I'm good at those things, right? And so I, I had a competitive advantage and I was able to generate revenue. Now that's changing. You know, the media, as you know better than anybody, right, media's changed dramatically. The, the-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, yeah
- MCMark Cuban
... you know, the incumbent company's no longer in the position of strength that they once were.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- MCMark Cuban
Revenue scenarios are changing dramatically, and that change has meant that in order to be a revenue, a leading revenue-generating team which pays for those salaries, you have to be in real estate, you have to be in entertainment centers and, you know, just, um, potentially casinos, and those are things I don't have a s- the slightest clue in. And so I don't, I don't need to pretend that I can afford to spend a billion dollars in something I don't understand. So I brought in a great partner and-
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, wow.
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah, I brought in great partners, um, Patrick Dumont, who runs the Sands, and Marion Adamson, who, um, is one of the owners, and they know that stuff inside and out.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- MCMark Cuban
They have those types of properties around the world and they're amazing. And so they made a great partner. They're not, you know, hardcore into... They're basketball fans, but they don't wanna run a team, and I don't wanna run a real estate operation.
- TNTrevor Noah
You're also stepping away from, um, Shark Tank.
- MCMark Cuban
I got one more year. Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
One more year.
- MCMark Cuban
One more year, yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
And then, and then you're out there as well.
- MCMark Cuban
Then I'm out, yeah.
- 38:26 – 49:51
Cost Plus Drugs: transparency as disruption in America’s broken healthcare pricing
- TNTrevor Noah
Don't go anywhere, 'cause we got more What Now? after this. Let's talk about some of the other things, um, Mark Cuban is involved in. You are engaged in one of the most interesting ventures ever, and this is about getting people access to low-cost drugs, uh, medicine. One of the craziest things about living in America is being in a country that is a first-world country, that is one of the richest nations in the world, that excels in almost everything business-wise and all of these ideas, and the healthcare system-
- MCMark Cuban
It's just insane
- TNTrevor Noah
... is just horrendous. Like-
- MCMark Cuban
Insane
- TNTrevor Noah
... you know, people, people have to keep jobs that they don't wanna keep because they're terrified of losing their healthcare, and they can't support their family's health, and the whole system is tied up into this weird-
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... gunky mess that, that doesn't work the way it should. You've stepped in, and you've decided to, I mean, really, really shake things up.
- MCMark Cuban
Yep.
- TNTrevor Noah
Talk to me about, like, the, the inception and the idea behind this, because there are very few people who could do this, and I wanna know why you thought you could do this and how you think you're gonna do it without being blackballed by the big boys.
- MCMark Cuban
Right. So CostPlusDrugs.com is the name of the company, and I started becoming a, a healthcare geek probably six, seven years ago during the Trump administration-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- MCMark Cuban
... when they said they were gonna try to get rid of, um, the ACA, um, the Affordable Care Act-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yes
- MCMark Cuban
... and they didn't have anything to replace it. So I'm like, "Okay, you know-
- TNTrevor Noah
Right
- MCMark Cuban
... if, if the shit hits the fan, I wanna at least, you know, understand what's going on." And nothing-
- TNTrevor Noah
Well, to be fair to Trump, he said he w- he said he was gonna replace it with something much better.
- MCMark Cuban
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Something much better.
- MCMark Cuban
Like he always does.
- TNTrevor Noah
There were no specifics, but he did say-
- MCMark Cuban
Like he always does
- TNTrevor Noah
... he did say he was gonna replace it with something much better.
- MCMark Cuban
And why would we not believe him, right? But-
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- MCMark Cuban
... just because I'm curious and I wanted to know more. Um, so I started getting into it, and just, you know, happenstance, um, I got a email, cold email from a Dr. Alex Oshmyansky, who was starting a compounding pharmacy in Denver, and what he wanted to do was take generics that were in short supply and make them and sell them cheaper. The challenge was-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- MCMark Cuban
... with that is that it was very difficult to scale. So we started talking. I'm like, "Okay, let's start this company where we, we sell these generics that you wanted to make, but we just buy them and sell them, but we're very transparent about our pricing. And let's call it CostPlusDrugs.com," 'cause I was able, we were able to get that URL. So we started it, um, and the whole premise is very, very simple. We buy drugs. We sell drugs from CostPlusDrugs.com. But we show you our cost. We show you our 15% markup. We show you our, our shipping and handling fees, and that's it. But by doing that, a couple things happened. We publish our price list, so now everybody who buys any type of medication at all, even if you have good insurance, you may go to CostPlusDrugs.com and see that our, the medication you take by buying from us is cheaper than your copay from your great insurance pro- program at, at-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- MCMark Cuban
... at, um, at work. So but by putting that transparent price list out there and by limiting our markup to 15%, we're able to sell a lot of medications just thousands, in some cases tens of thousands of dollars cheaper than what they were being sold for before. Because what happens in our healthcare tystem- system, talking about, you know, being screwed up, you go to your doctor.
- 49:51 – 54:52
AI’s next era: everyone gets a personal model—and relationships change
- TNTrevor Noah
You've stepped into multiple differ- different fields and you've disrupted them. You know, um, you, you came into sports with a new attitude. You've stepped into medicine with a new attitude. A lot of people may not know this, but really one of the biggest things you did was in tech. You know, you, you were taught... You self-taught when it came to coding. You knew computers were gonna be huge. You were working on networks as, as, as a youngster.
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
You were really ahead of the game when it came to this. I'd love to know what you think of, of this, this next revolution that we're, that we- that we're witnessing right now. You know, AI-
- MCMark Cuban
AI, yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... is, is ubiquitous. AI is in everything everywhere you go now-
- MCMark Cuban
Yep
- TNTrevor Noah
... from your car rental agency to your language learning app to, you know, me- you name it-
- MCMark Cuban
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... AI is involved. And, you know, obviously there's, there's gonna be benefits, and then there are also things-
- MCMark Cuban
Sure
- TNTrevor Noah
... you know, that, that we should, that we should be wary about. But as somebody who has not just made a lot of money in tech, but also spent a lot of time, uh, in tech, like, what, what are your, what are your views on AI? What's, what's your-
- MCMark Cuban
So from a business perspective, there's only two types of companies: the companies that are great at AI-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- MCMark Cuban
... and everybody else. That's it. You have to know AI, AI. And AI breaks into, both for our regular lives and business lives, AI breaks into two types. One, there's the large language models, the ChatGPT, and that's really the-
- TNTrevor Noah
Right, right
- MCMark Cuban
... the biggest important part. And then there's just using AI for optimization, right? You know, how do I ship my widgets faster and better and cheaper than before? But for the large language models, they're going... it's gonna change everything.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- MCMark Cuban
Some little kid born today, their life is going to be insane, and I'll give you an example. Um, right now, like I have emails, like I said, I do everything via email, right? If I were to take all those emails that I have going back 30 years and put them into a large language model, and I created-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- MCMark Cuban
... a hologram of myself, I actually have a company who does holograms, um, Hypervision, and combine those two together, you could have this conversation with my hologram, and if the quality of the hologram was good enough, you wouldn't know it wasn't me. Because a large language model is able to ingest as much information from a person, by a person, about a person as you can-
- TNTrevor Noah
As you, as you can feed it, yeah
- MCMark Cuban
... right. Now imagine that for your little baby, and all those videos we take on our phone, all the first goo goo ga ga's-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
- MCMark Cuban
... all the first steps, all their papers, all their drawings, and you put that into, you know, Trevor's baby's large language model.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- MCMark Cuban
By the time that you're doing that for 10, 12 years, that best friend is [laughs] that little kid's best friend is themself out of a large language model. It is going to be-
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, that's scary
- MCMark Cuban
... insane, insane.
- TNTrevor Noah
That is, that is scary though.
- MCMark Cuban
Every kid-
- 54:52 – 57:21
What now for Mark Cuban: family and making healthcare a right
- TNTrevor Noah
It's one of the few times in human history where we're living, we're living on the precipice. Um-
- MCMark Cuban
You don't live in the world you were born into, you know?
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, right? Yeah, that's, that's, that's a great way to put it. Um, so Mark, I'm gonna ask you a question that I, that I ask all my guests on the podcast, and that is what now? I feel like it's the perfect time to ask it to you because you're opening up space and place in your life, and you've answered some of it, but, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're stepping away from some of the positions you hold, uh, on the basketball team, the Dallas Mavericks. You are, you know, gonna be stepping away from Shark Tank in a year. So, so, so what now? What does, what does Mark Cuban look at as the next era of, of his life?
- MCMark Cuban
I mean, my kids and healthcare, right? I mean, I just... You know, I, I'm not someone who thinks about legacy a lot. I'm not, certainly not the type of person to put my name on a building. [laughs] But at the same-
- TNTrevor Noah
Right
- MCMark Cuban
... time, I think if I can have enough of an impact on healthcare where, you know, people don't have to stress about it the way they are, where people, you know, we get to a point where healthcare is a right. You know, it's not an affordability issue.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- MCMark Cuban
I, I think we can get-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm
- MCMark Cuban
... there. When I, when I look at what I know now about healthcare, there's a lot that can be stripped away, and there's a path to get there that's not as difficult, I think, as people think. And so if I can just keep on grinding it out every single day and just, you know, taking another brick out of that wall, um, I think, I think there's a lot of really cool changes that can happen that can make this country a better place.
- TNTrevor Noah
That's a fantastic idea to have for your future, you know, spending more time with family and trying to help other people, um, spend more time with their families-
- MCMark Cuban
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... ironically, because of their health. Well, uh, Mark Cuban, thank you for the time.
- MCMark Cuban
Thanks, Trevor.
- TNTrevor Noah
Thank you for your insights. And, uh, yeah, good luck for the season and everything else that you do, my friend.
- MCMark Cuban
I appreciate it. Thanks, Trevor. Always fun. [upbeat music]
- TNTrevor Noah
What Now? with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions, Fullwell 73, and Audacy's Pineapple Street Studios. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Ben Winston, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Barry Finkel. Produced by Emmanuel Hapsis, Marina Henke, Jess Hackel, Natalie Pert, and Chelsea Williamson. Music mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now?
Episode duration: 57:21
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