Mehdi Hasan: The Freedom to Speak

Mehdi Hasan 0:00 [upbeat music] Jean-Claude Van Damme, I mean, come on. He's no, he's no Jason Statham.

Trevor Noah 0:08 Whoa.

Mehdi Hasan 0:08 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 0:09 [laughs] Are you kidding me?

Mehdi Hasan 0:11 Yo, what?

Trevor Noah 0:11 Van Damme. JCVD-

Mehdi Hasan 0:13 There you go

Trevor Noah 0:13 ... versus Jason Statham.

Mehdi Hasan 0:14 Okay.

Trevor Noah 0:14 First of all-

Mehdi Hasan 0:14 Statham would kick his ass.

Trevor Noah 0:15 My friend, okay.

Mehdi Hasan 0:16 [laughs] Never.

Trevor Noah 0:16 Let me start, let me start by saying this.

Mehdi Hasan 0:17 Go on.

Trevor Noah 0:18 You're stupid.

Mehdi Hasan 0:19 Okay. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 0:20 Uh, secondly, secondly, Jean-Claude Van Damme.

Mehdi Hasan 0:23 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 0:24 My friend, you-

Mehdi Hasan 0:25 I grew up watching Jean-Claude Van Damme

Trevor Noah 0:26 ... you have the memory of a goldfish.

Mehdi Hasan 0:27 No, I didn't. I can tell you every film now.

Trevor Noah 0:29 Mehdi Hasan.

Mehdi Hasan 0:29 Blood Sport.

Trevor Noah 0:29 My friend.

Mehdi Hasan 0:29 I could watch Blood Sport again every day.

Trevor Noah 0:31 There is no world-

Mehdi Hasan 0:31 Double Impact

Trevor Noah 0:32 ... there is no world-

Mehdi Hasan 0:32 Twin brothers in Hong Kong

Trevor Noah 0:33 ... where you can make a statement as... It, would it be a close fight? Yes.

Mehdi Hasan 0:37 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 0:37 Would it be a tough fight?

Mehdi Hasan 0:38 Time Cop.

Trevor Noah 0:39 My friend-

Mehdi Hasan 0:39 Let's go

Trevor Noah 0:39 ... there is no world.

Mehdi Hasan 0:41 I got you on. There's no scenario you've watched more JCVD films than I have.

Trevor Noah 0:44 Eh, eh.

Mehdi Hasan 0:44 I watch them now, the B shit that goes straight to, straight to streaming, where he's like an old assassin retired. I watch that shit, too. I watch all of this stuff.

Trevor Noah 0:51 What disability do you have?

Mehdi Hasan 0:51 My man, in what world, in what world-

Trevor Noah 0:53 You did, you did the hand

Mehdi Hasan 0:54 ... in what world are you gonna br- [laughs] What, what, what, what did happen to him?

Trevor Noah 0:57 What, what, what was with him there?

Mehdi Hasan 0:58 Like, I don't know. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 0:59 Oh, he's doing a gun. He's doing a gun.

Mehdi Hasan 1:00 Like he has a gun now-

Trevor Noah 1:01 He's doing a gun

Mehdi Hasan 1:01 ... 'cause he, 'cause he can't do splits and kick anymore because he's too old.

Trevor Noah 1:04 No, 'cause you said, because you said he's old, and you did this with your hand.

Mehdi Hasan 1:06 Yeah, and then he did the... I don't know what it is

Trevor Noah 1:08 ... I don't know what it is.

Mehdi Hasan 1:08 But he's-

Trevor Noah 1:08 Jason Statham-

Mehdi Hasan 1:09 Couple tunnels syndrome

Trevor Noah 1:09 ... Jason Statham would kick his ass.

Mehdi Hasan 1:11 In what world?

Trevor Noah 1:12 No way.

Mehdi Hasan 1:12 What? Are you ki-

Trevor Noah 1:13 Are you talking, are you serious?

Mehdi Hasan 1:14 You think, you think this Belgian dancer is gonna take out-

Trevor Noah 1:17 Ah, ah

Mehdi Hasan 1:17 ... the peak jumper-

Trevor Noah 1:18 You think this British-

Mehdi Hasan 1:18 ... fucking diver

Trevor Noah 1:20 ... you think this British trapeze artist-

Mehdi Hasan 1:21 You think this British diver is gonna beat kickboxer with cheesy lines like-

Trevor Noah 1:26 What are you talking about?

Mehdi Hasan 1:28 "To be or not to be."

Trevor Noah 1:28 Yo, what are you talking about?

Mehdi Hasan 1:28 This guy's not serious, bruh.

Trevor Noah 1:29 You're insane.

Mehdi Hasan 1:30 Uh.

Trevor Noah 1:30 Do you know tong po?

Mehdi Hasan 1:31 Ha, my man, you're playing games, you. Have you seen Universal Soldier?

Trevor Noah 1:34 My f- my man, I've watched all of them.

Mehdi Hasan 1:35 I think Dolph-

Trevor Noah 1:35 These are the only movies we had in South Africa

Mehdi Hasan 1:36 ... I think Dolph, I think Dolph Lundgren would've kicked Jean-Claude Van Damme's ass.

Trevor Noah 1:39 Where's he now?

Mehdi Hasan 1:39 Yeah, but that's a tough one. But that's a tough-

Trevor Noah 1:40 Yeah, but-

Mehdi Hasan 1:40 That's, that's why-

Trevor Noah 1:41 I'll give you Lundgren.

Mehdi Hasan 1:42 Yeah, but I'm saying that was, that's a-

Trevor Noah 1:42 But I won't give you Van Damme. [upbeat music]

Trevor Noah 1:49 This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. [upbeat music]

Mehdi Hasan 2:00 [upbeat music] What's the, what's the language rules on this show?

Trevor Noah 2:05 [laughs] Uh, w- you speak the language you speak.

Mehdi Hasan 2:08 Okay.

Trevor Noah 2:09 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 2:10 How many languages do you speak?

Trevor Noah 2:11 One and a half.

Mehdi Hasan 2:12 What's the half?

Trevor Noah 2:13 Urdu.

Mehdi Hasan 2:14 Oh, okay. All right.

Trevor Noah 2:16 We are known as the Urdu swearing podcast. [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 2:19 Yeah, no, I, I, don't worry. You, uh, when you did your famous India, Pakistan dodgy accent-

Trevor Noah 2:23 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 2:23 ... that was on every, every Indian WhatsApp group I was on got that clip. Don't worry. I remember it well.

Trevor Noah 2:28 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 2:30 [laughs] You did like a Bollywood in the middle. You did like a Bolly-

Trevor Noah 2:32 Oh, yeah

Mehdi Hasan 2:33 ... it was in the middle of a war.

Trevor Noah 2:33 Yo, man, I got-

Mehdi Hasan 2:34 What did you do?

Trevor Noah 2:34 ... got flamed for that.

Mehdi Hasan 2:35 He did, like in the middle of the war, they went, "Do, do, do," he did like a Bollywood breakout of the soldiers. He, like, mocked Indian, Pakistani soldiers doing Bollywood.

Trevor Noah 2:41 No, no, no, no, no, I didn't-

Mehdi Hasan 2:43 Yeah, it was

Trevor Noah 2:43 ... I didn't, didn't mock them. Mehdi, Mehdi.

Mehdi Hasan 2:44 What was it? I can't remember. It's on the tip of my brain.

Trevor Noah 2:45 Come on, Mehdi, you, you are the man of facts, Mehdi.

Mehdi Hasan 2:47 Not anymore. I can't remember anything.

Trevor Noah 2:47 You're the man. [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 2:49 I have early onset dementia.

Trevor Noah 2:51 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 2:52 By the way, I have a hard out 4:25, my friend, because I've gotta catch a train-

Trevor Noah 2:55 Let's do it

Mehdi Hasan 2:55 ... or my wife will kill me.

Trevor Noah 2:56 Let's do it, man.

Mehdi Hasan 2:57 She's already upset with me.

Trevor Noah 2:58 Let's do it.

Mehdi Hasan 2:58 Let's not make her more upset.

Trevor Noah 2:59 Oh, man. Why is she upset with you?

Mehdi Hasan 3:00 'Cause I'm always traveling.

Trevor Noah 3:01 Oh.

Mehdi Hasan 3:02 So I said, "I'll be home tonight, 8:00."

Trevor Noah 3:03 Did you-

Mehdi Hasan 3:03 I gotta make the

Mehdi Hasan 3:04 5:00 train.

Trevor Noah 3:04 Did you think you would work less or more when you started your own thing?

Mehdi Hasan 3:08 I thought I would work more. Not this much more.

Trevor Noah 3:11 Well-

Mehdi Hasan 3:11 It's insanely more.

Trevor Noah 3:12 Yeah, and I will say congratulations on all of your success-

Mehdi Hasan 3:14 Thank you very much

Trevor Noah 3:14 ... Mehdi Hasan.

Mehdi Hasan 3:14 I appreciate it. Same to you.

Trevor Noah 3:16 Does it feel like, uh, does it feel like freedom, or does it feel like a different kind of burden?

Mehdi Hasan 3:20 No, no, freedom.

Trevor Noah 3:21 Yeah?

Mehdi Hasan 3:21 Always freedom. I love the freedom.

Trevor Noah 3:23 Did you, did you ever see this for yourself?

Mehdi Hasan 3:24 Have we started?

Trevor Noah 3:25 Yeah. What do you mean?

Mehdi Hasan 3:26 [laughs] Oh, I lo- I lo- I love this is the weirdest podcast I've ever done.

Trevor Noah 3:29 Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

Mehdi Hasan 3:31 [laughs] I was like, "What is going on here?"

Trevor Noah 3:32 This guy.

Mehdi Hasan 3:33 You just lulled me into it.

Trevor Noah 3:34 I just, what do you mean lulled you?

Mehdi Hasan 3:35 What if I said something outrageous that I wasn't supposed to say? What if I wanted to say some shit?

Trevor Noah 3:39 Say some shit.

Mehdi Hasan 3:39 Like is anyone on camera?

Trevor Noah 3:40 So wait, so wait, wait, wait, let me understand this. So you, you, you don't-

Mehdi Hasan 3:43 No, not now. Now I'm all buttoned up.

Trevor Noah 3:44 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 3:44 I'm ready to go.

Trevor Noah 3:45 I see now. I see now.

Mehdi Hasan 3:45 What would you like to talk about on the media front, Trevor Noah?

Trevor Noah 3:48 No, you see now. Ah, you see now, Mehdi. Now-

Mehdi Hasan 3:49 You should have admitted that we were on

Trevor Noah 3:50 ... now we must cut the cameras and then go back to the previous Mehdi Hasan.

Mehdi Hasan 3:53 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 3:54 That's not what we're doing here.

Mehdi Hasan 3:55 Okay.

Trevor Noah 3:55 That's not, that's literally not what we're doing here.

Mehdi Hasan 3:57 What are we doing? What are we doing?

Trevor Noah 3:58 No, we're doing-

Mehdi Hasan 3:58 I'm a free man.

Trevor Noah 3:59 You see?

Trevor Noah 4:00 So be free.

Mehdi Hasan 4:00 I'm free from corporate slavery, servitude, domination. I get to say whatever I want.

Trevor Noah 4:05 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 4:05 I get to do whatever I want. I don't have to look over my shoulder. It is liberating.

Trevor Noah 4:10 What do you think you couldn't say before that you can say now?

Mehdi Hasan 4:14 Lots of things. I can say, uh... I can say whatever I want. I can say-

Trevor Noah 4:17 Yeah, but what, what couldn't you say before? Do you remember a specific thing where you were like, "Oh, damn, I couldn't say this before"?

Mehdi Hasan 4:22 Oh, I think, uh, well, if you know anything about corporate media, and you do because you worked in it as well, you know that it doesn't come down as a set of rules. It comes down as kind of, you know, maybe you shouldn't say-

Trevor Noah 4:32 Suggestions

Mehdi Hasan 4:33 ... this or that. So, I mean, there are obviously rules.

Trevor Noah 4:34 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 4:34 I went to NBC News, which has a very strong standards department, which I respect. I'm glad.

Trevor Noah 4:38 Oh, no, that's different.

Mehdi Hasan 4:38 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 4:38 Standards is different.

Mehdi Hasan 4:40 Standards are different.

Trevor Noah 4:40 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 4:40 But then there's also, you know, things like, you know, you're not supposed to swear. That's obviously-

Trevor Noah 4:43 Yeah, that, but I mean, that I can understand

Mehdi Hasan 4:44 ... and, and I understand that, too. But obviously, if you look at, for example, The New York Times.

Trevor Noah 4:47 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 4:48 Intercept got hold of a memo at the early days of the genocide where they were saying,

Mehdi Hasan 4:52 "Don't say occupation. Don't say apartheid. Don't say genocide." This was their guidance to reporters, like that kind of bullshit. When I set up Zeteo in 2024-

Trevor Noah 4:59 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 4:59 ... the first thing I said was, "I get to say the G word, the F word, and the R word, genocide, fascism, and racism," which corporate media runs away from.

Trevor Noah 5:07 Hm, they do.

Mehdi Hasan 5:07 You can't call Donald Trump a fa- racist. You don't know what's in his heart.

Trevor Noah 5:10 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 5:11 Uh, you can't say it's a genocide. That's, that's a little, that's a little inflammatory, and even though every genocide scholar in the world pretty much now says it's a genocide. So this kind of crap, you know, fascism, I was one of the first people on MSNBC to say the F word August 2020. I was sitting in for Chris Hayes. It was the Portland protest, George Floyd protest.

Trevor Noah 5:27 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 5:27 And I said, "We need to say fascism." And at the time, people, "Oh, this is hyperbolic. What are you talking about? He's not Hitler." Now it's kind of his own team have pretty much said he's a fascist.

Trevor Noah 5:36 Yeah, but y- so here's what I think it is. I, I understand it, even though I don't agree with it most of the time. I think what happens is people don't understand that it's something that shifts. It's not something that happens.

Mehdi Hasan 5:51 What does-

Trevor Noah 5:51 Does this make sense?

Mehdi Hasan 5:51 No.

Trevor Noah 5:52 Fascism-

Mehdi Hasan 5:52 Oh

Trevor Noah 5:53 ... or any of the... So everyone thinks that fascism happens overnight.

Mehdi Hasan 5:56 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 5:56 Everyone thinks that even things like, uh, you know, take it out of politics Being broke or being an alcoholic or be- people think those things just happen overnight.

Mehdi Hasan 6:06 Yes.

Eugene 6:06 Mm.

Trevor Noah 6:06 But it's a process. It's the one thing that leads to the next thing. It's the second drink, the third drink, the fifth drink. Two nights a week, three nights a week, four nights a week. So when you say it on night two of the person drinking, alcoholic, people are like, "Nah, Mehdi, Mehdi, Mehdi. Come on, man."

Mehdi Hasan 6:19 Fuck, yeah.

Trevor Noah 6:19 "We don't use that word because that's hyperbolic."

Eugene 6:22 Not yet.

Trevor Noah 6:22 Yes, but the problem is by the time you are using-

Mehdi Hasan 6:24 Too late

Trevor Noah 6:24 ... by the time everyone agrees on the word-

Mehdi Hasan 6:26 Yes.

Eugene 6:26 Too late

Trevor Noah 6:26 ... it's too late.

Mehdi Hasan 6:27 100%.

Trevor Noah 6:27 That's, that's the issue.

Mehdi Hasan 6:29 100%.

Trevor Noah 6:29 So, so I get-

Mehdi Hasan 6:29 Tell that to the Palestinians.

Trevor Noah 6:30 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 6:30 Now it's like, oh, the majority of genocide scholars say it's a genocide. Every human rights group says-

Trevor Noah 6:34 Yeah, yeah

Mehdi Hasan 6:34 ... it's a genocide.

Trevor Noah 6:35 But-

Mehdi Hasan 6:35 Prominent Israelis say it's a genocide, and it's like, okay, but now 100,000 people are dead. Netanyahu says he wants to take over all of Gaza, et cetera, et cetera.

Trevor Noah 6:42 Yes.

Mehdi Hasan 6:42 We're in a very different place. Same with the fascism. Like-

Trevor Noah 6:44 By the time everyone agrees, it's too late.

Mehdi Hasan 6:46 Well, I-

Trevor Noah 6:46 Fundamentally

Mehdi Hasan 6:47 ... in 2019, I wrote a piece. I was writing for The Intercept at the time. I wrote a piece in, I think March or April of 2019, and I said, "If Donald Trump loses the next election, he will not accept the result and there will be riots." And people said, "You don't know what you're talking about. You're a fucking Brit. You don't know anything about America. Secret Service will march him out. That's not how it works. Yeah, of course, he can't try and stay on." And then we saw what happened-

Trevor Noah 7:08 Mm

Mehdi Hasan 7:08 ... with the election denial and January 6th. And now it's like everyone's like, "Oh, well, maybe he'll stay on in 2028." And, like, now everyone gets it when it's too late. He's back for a second term. He's crushing his opposition. Now it's like, "Oh, yeah, maybe he's a fascist. Maybe he doesn't respect election results."

Trevor Noah 7:20 You know, I just-

Mehdi Hasan 7:20 "Maybe he wants

Mehdi Hasan 7:21 to be a dictator"

Trevor Noah 7:21 ... I just realized that you're a Brit. I don't know why I didn't think of that before.

Mehdi Hasan 7:24 I'm British American now.

Trevor Noah 7:25 No, no, but-

Mehdi Hasan 7:25 At the time I was a Brit, yes

Trevor Noah 7:26 ... yeah, but what I'm saying is I don't even think of you as a Brit.

Mehdi Hasan 7:28 Why?

Trevor Noah 7:28 I, I think you are-

Mehdi Hasan 7:29 Does my accent not give me away?

Eugene 7:30 Mm.

Trevor Noah 7:31 No, I just think of you as Mehdi.

Mehdi Hasan 7:32 Okay. Unique nationality in the world.

Trevor Noah 7:35 No. Okay, let me explain.

Mehdi Hasan 7:36 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 7:36 Stop being a hater, Mehdi. I'm trying to explain something to you here. This guy's f- he's trying to fight me here, and I'm not trying to fight here.

Mehdi Hasan 7:42 I try my best.

Trevor Noah 7:42 You get what I'm saying, Eugene?

Eugene 7:43 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 7:43 You know, sometimes somebody becomes so, um, ubiquitous-

Mehdi Hasan 7:48 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 7:48 ... that you don't think of them as being-

Eugene 7:49 I was thinking about innocuous. Mehdi.

Mehdi Hasan 7:51 [laughs]

Eugene 7:51 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 7:52 You think ubiquitous is c- ubiquitous is not good.

Eugene 7:54 No.

Mehdi Hasan 7:54 Implications.

Trevor Noah 7:54 What I me- what I mean is-

Mehdi Hasan 7:55 I remember

Trevor Noah 7:55 ... is like, you, you... Someone starts to occupy a space just as themselves, and you don't think of them as being from somewhere or-

Eugene 8:04 Mm.

Trevor Noah 8:04 Because I, I, and I mean this as a compliment-

Eugene 8:06 Yeah, yeah

Trevor Noah 8:06 ... by the way. Y- I just think of you as Mehdi Hasan now. I-

Mehdi Hasan 8:10 From the internet.

Trevor Noah 8:11 Yeah, just from the zeitgeist.

Eugene 8:12 Yeah, from the, that's what some people say, yeah.

Trevor Noah 8:13 But from the zeitgeist.

Mehdi Hasan 8:14 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 8:14 Yeah, I do think of you as, as the... Like, when you said now a Brit, I was like, "Oh, damn."

Mehdi Hasan 8:18 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 8:19 Where are you from in the UK?

Mehdi Hasan 8:20 North London.

Trevor Noah 8:21 Huh.

Mehdi Hasan 8:21 12 years ago, I left.

Trevor Noah 8:22 Are you a football fan?

Mehdi Hasan 8:23 I am.

Trevor Noah 8:24 Who's your team?

Mehdi Hasan 8:25 Liverpool.

Trevor Noah 8:27 Why didn't we start there, Mehdi?

Mehdi Hasan 8:29 'Cause I grew up-

Trevor Noah 8:30 Why didn't-

Mehdi Hasan 8:30 I grew up in the 1980s where every brown Muslim supported Liverpool.

Trevor Noah 8:33 Why?

Mehdi Hasan 8:35 Oh, glory hunting. It was the end of a great era. The funny thing is I started supporting Liverpool when they stopped winning everything.

Trevor Noah 8:40 Oh, they stopped winning when you started supporting them.

Mehdi Hasan 8:42 Exactly.

Eugene 8:42 But how you gonna support them-

Mehdi Hasan 8:42 Correlation, causation

Eugene 8:43 ... if you're not supporting them?

Trevor Noah 8:44 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 8:44 Um, so I, I said this to Piers Morgan recently, where he ma- insisted on his show that I congratulate him on Arsenal winning the Premiership. And I said, "You know, I'm used to Liverpool not doing well." Liverpool winning things was an aberration for me.

Trevor Noah 8:57 Mm.

Mehdi Hasan 8:57 My daughter's a Liverpool fan, mu- much bigger fan than I am, watches every game. I don't even have time to watch football anymore because of my life, but I'm used to it. She's got to enjoy Premier League victories-

Trevor Noah 9:06 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 9:06 ... and world-class. But I lived through the '90s, where it was very difficult, a very difficult period where Man United were winning everything.

Trevor Noah 9:11 So you-

Mehdi Hasan 9:12 So I-

Trevor Noah 9:12 ... you jumped on a bandwagon-

Mehdi Hasan 9:13 I jumped

Trevor Noah 9:13 ... and the bandwagon stopped.

Mehdi Hasan 9:14 Worst, worst time. Every brown person did. Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London-

Trevor Noah 9:17 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 9:17 ... he's a Liverpool fan.

Trevor Noah 9:18 Oh, wow, so this is how it came to. I wonder if this is how Ryan jumped on. Ryan, is this how you jumped on? All right, he won't respond now.

Mehdi Hasan 9:25 Ryan is white. Why, why would he jump on when the-

Trevor Noah 9:28 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 9:28 ... when the brown people were jumping in?

Eugene 9:29 Ryan is white. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 9:31 Well, brown people always late.

Mehdi Hasan 9:31 That's so great that we c-

Eugene 9:32 Ryan makes his own chili oil. What are you talking about?

Mehdi Hasan 9:33 That's so great that we could, like ... We should start building an image of this Ryan guy and who he is. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 9:38 Well, if he's white, he probably joined at the right time.

Mehdi Hasan 9:39 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 9:40 We're brown people, come late to everything, right?

Eugene 9:42 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 9:42 So Desi people, people from the subcontinent, we're late. We're famously late.

Eugene 9:46 But if it's-

Mehdi Hasan 9:46 So I come along in, like, 1990, and it's like, yeah, it's John Barnes at the end of his career, Ian Rush retiring, Ronny Rosenthal, Israeli super sub. Wonder what would happen to him today. But, you know, this is, this was a period where Muslims loved Liverpool, and we still do. Uh, but some of us, you know ... And my daughter's lucky, as I say, but this season, not so lucky.

Trevor Noah 10:05 Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I mean, Liverpool, we're, we are, we were still the champions until recently, is the thing I always, you know-

Eugene 10:11 What happened to Eugene?

Trevor Noah 10:11 ... have to be reminded of. Arsenal won, Eugene. Why do you want me to say it?

Eugene 10:15 Wait, what did they win?

Trevor Noah 10:16 You know what, Eugene? You know what, neh?

Eugene 10:18 The Ashes.

Trevor Noah 10:18 You know what, Eugene? You know what?

Eugene 10:21 You know, that's the-

Trevor Noah 10:22 Mocking people's pain, Eugene-

Eugene 10:22 That's the, that's the, that's the problem with this podcast

Trevor Noah 10:23 ... is the lowest form of humor, Eugene

Eugene 10:25 ... apart. I'm not allowed to dig in and get into the facts and get the merits of the story. I am interested, and I'm representing a huge demographic of brown people-

Trevor Noah 10:35 [laughs]

Eugene 10:37 ... that want to join.

Mehdi Hasan 10:38 This guy's never said ... You've never said brown people in your life.

Eugene 10:39 Ever in my life.

Mehdi Hasan 10:40 You just heard him say brown people.

Eugene 10:41 Ever.

Mehdi Hasan 10:41 And now you're saying brown people.

Eugene 10:42 Ever.

Trevor Noah 10:42 You're like, "I'm not Black. This guy is brown."

Eugene 10:43 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 10:43 He's never said bro- he's never said brown people in his entire life.

Trevor Noah 10:47 This guy's out here-

Eugene 10:48 Glad I, I added to your vocabulary.

Mehdi Hasan 10:49 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 10:49 This guy's out here gaslighting.

Eugene 10:53 But why are you like this every time we speak about soccer? I want to understand.

Mehdi Hasan 10:55 It's called football.

Trevor Noah 10:56 No, he wants, he wants to-

Eugene 10:57 Oh, foot pro.

Trevor Noah 10:58 You know what's funny is s- soccer came from-

Mehdi Hasan 11:00 It's football.

Trevor Noah 11:01 Yeah, but the word soccer-

Mehdi Hasan 11:02 Yeah

Trevor Noah 11:02 ... didn't come from America, though.

Eugene 11:03 Where did it come from?

Mehdi Hasan 11:03 No, it didn't. Association football.

Trevor Noah 11:05 Yes, but soccer didn't come ... It's, like, it's funny how we, like, punish Americans-

Mehdi Hasan 11:08 Yes

Trevor Noah 11:08 ... for saying soccer, but they didn't say soccer. They were taught the word soccer-

Mehdi Hasan 11:11 True

Trevor Noah 11:11 ... by Europeans.

Mehdi Hasan 11:12 True.

Trevor Noah 11:12 And then Europeans flipped it and were like, "No, football, you dicks. Stop saying football. It's soc- it's, it's, it's, it's-

Eugene 11:17 Yeah, but

Trevor Noah 11:17 ... it's not soccer. It's football." Then Americans were like, "But Zoran Mamdani calls it football."

Mehdi Hasan 11:21 But Zoran called it football, so I respect him even more than I already respected him. He calls it football. He doesn't call it soccer.

Trevor Noah 11:26 What do you think of Zoran?

Mehdi Hasan 11:27 I'm a fan. I'm an admirer.

Trevor Noah 11:29 What are you a fan of?

Mehdi Hasan 11:30 I'm a fan of the fact that he won an election that people thought he couldn't win.

Trevor Noah 11:34 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 11:34 He won it by sticking to his guns. He didn't roll over. He was a politician who basically ran from the left but didn't run from the right, and I think we live in a age where Democrats, anytime they get attacked-

Trevor Noah 11:49 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 11:49 ... they immediately crou- defensive crouch, defensive posture, try and meet you in the middle, try and compromise. He didn't do it. He ra- he said, "These are my policies. This is what I'm running on." I interviewed him in December 2024-

Trevor Noah 12:01 Mm-hmm

Mehdi Hasan 12:02 ... right, at Zeteo. He was at less than 1% in the polls. I told him this later. It was a pity interview.

Trevor Noah 12:08 Hmm.

Mehdi Hasan 12:08 They were like, "There's a Muslim guy running from Queens. He's a socialist." I was like, "Ah, let's get him on. Let's give him a platform." That day I was interviewing Hasan Minhaj, and I remember being like

Mehdi Hasan 12:18 Hasan and I just coming into the studio. I was like, "We gotta get this other guy out quickly."

Trevor Noah 12:22 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 12:23 I remember, I just vividly, we're like, "Zora- Zoran Mamdani's out here."

Trevor Noah 12:25 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 12:25 "Yeah, we'll do that first, and then Hasan's coming, Hasan's coming." And I re- you know, I had no idea at the time, and I told him this later bluntly to his face, I've said this to him, like, I, I thought I was doing you a favor. Who knew this guy would be a global sensation? And I kind of, in that first interview is when he said, "If Benjamin Netanyahu comes to New York, I'll have him arrested." I remember that. People went nuts at the time. Well, they didn't go nuts at the time because he was a nobody.

Trevor Noah 12:48 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 12:48 But when he became big, that quote came back.

Trevor Noah 12:50 It came back.

Mehdi Hasan 12:50 And it, it came back to the point where in the White House, Netanyahu's meeting Trump and a reporter says, "Zoran Mamdani says he'll arrest you," and Netanyahu's like, "Well, Trump will come with me to protect me in New York." Um, and I was like, wow. And he, and he kept getting asked about it, and he didn't back down from it. I mean, he pointed out that legally he can't do it, right?

Trevor Noah 13:04 Yeah, yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 13:04 But the aspiration, he never backed away from that. And it's not just Israel. Multiple issues. You know, he ran on, like, free buses, childcare. He had a bunch of very clear policies.

Trevor Noah 13:13 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 13:13 I've been waiting for a Democrat who can speak like a human, energize people, young people. It's not hard. I always make the example of Donald Trump versus Hillary Clinton. What was Donald Trump's flagship slogans in 2016?

Trevor Noah 13:24 Uh, build a wall.

Mehdi Hasan 13:25 Yeah. What else?

Trevor Noah 13:25 And deport all Muslims.

Mehdi Hasan 13:26 Yeah. You remember, right?

Trevor Noah 13:26 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 13:26 It was 11 years ago.

Trevor Noah 13:27 Yeah, yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 13:27 You remember it like it was yesterday.

Trevor Noah 13:28 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 13:28 What was Hillary Clinton's top slogans?

Trevor Noah 13:30 I'm gonna break the glass ceiling.

Mehdi Hasan 13:33 I mean, look, nobody remembers what ... I mean, I'm sure she had an amazing 77-page childcare policy, but that's just how Democrats run. We're like, "We'll give you lots of stats and lots of proposals and lots of technocratic wonky solutions."

Trevor Noah 13:43 Yeah, but Obama was, "Yes, we can."

Mehdi Hasan 13:45 Yes, we can.

Trevor Noah 13:45 Which was inspirational.

Mehdi Hasan 13:46 Which was good.

Trevor Noah 13:46 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 13:46 And he ran as a populist.

Trevor Noah 13:47 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 13:47 People forget he ran anti-war.

Trevor Noah 13:49 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 13:49 People forget he ran against the Iraq War on Hillary Clinton's record.

Trevor Noah 13:51 I don't think you can be anti-war when you get in. I think there's something that happens to American presidents.

Mehdi Hasan 13:55 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 13:56 Like, I think you can be anti-war when you're coming in, and then I think when you get inside there, someone says something to you or something happens, and then they're like, "Hey, bro, you gotta do this thing, man."

Mehdi Hasan 14:04 Donald Trump, the great-

Trevor Noah 14:05 Yo,

Trevor Noah 14:06 man, Donald Trump was fully anti-war.

Mehdi Hasan 14:07 Well, he pretended to be, yes.

Trevor Noah 14:08 I don't even know if he pretended.

Mehdi Hasan 14:09 Yeah, 100% pretended.

Trevor Noah 14:10 You think he pretended?

Mehdi Hasan 14:11 Oh, 100% pretended.

Trevor Noah 14:11 No, man, I think he wasn't.

Mehdi Hasan 14:13 100% pretended.

Trevor Noah 14:13 I think he was anti-war.

Mehdi Hasan 14:14 No.

Trevor Noah 14:14 I think he was anti-war.

Mehdi Hasan 14:14 Based on what?

Trevor Noah 14:16 Just because of everything he said. He was fully anti-war.

Mehdi Hasan 14:17 Wow. There was no-

Trevor Noah 14:18 He said he was anti-war

Mehdi Hasan 14:19 ... there was no point where he was like, "I'm for this thing." Who cares? It's fucking Donald Trump. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 14:24 No, but that's-

Mehdi Hasan 14:24 I can't believe your evidence for Donald Trump is-

Trevor Noah 14:25 No, no, no. No, no, no

Mehdi Hasan 14:26 ... he said so.

Trevor Noah 14:26 Mehdi, Mehdi, listen, listen. You see, here's where we're gonna have a disagreement.

Mehdi Hasan 14:29 Yes, please.

Trevor Noah 14:30 You're making it seem like the man does not exist anywhere doing anything and has no opinion about anything. I'm saying there's some things I believe that he believed, and I think-

Mehdi Hasan 14:40 E.g., not going to war

Trevor Noah 14:40 ... I genuinely think that man-

Mehdi Hasan 14:41 Even though in his first term he did lots of war.

Trevor Noah 14:43 He did not ... That man-

Mehdi Hasan 14:45 Yeah

Trevor Noah 14:45 ... do you remember when he launched, like, one missile, this is crazy, where he launched, like, I think it was, like, one missile at, uh, towards Syria or in that region?

Mehdi Hasan 14:51 Yes. I was eating chocolate cake, and it was great. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 14:54 You, you [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 14:54 That's what you said at the time. And then-

Trevor Noah 14:56 Oh, I thought you were eating chocolate cake.

Mehdi Hasan 14:58 Yeah, I thought you were eating chocolate. I was like, "Damn, you know where you were."

Trevor Noah 15:00 I thought that we was. [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 15:00 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 15:00 I ate a lot of chocolate cake. So a good bet that night I was eating chocolate cake-

Mehdi Hasan 15:03 No, and then-

Trevor Noah 15:03 ... and having ice cream

Mehdi Hasan 15:04 ... and then he found out-

Trevor Noah 15:05 I think he was eating chocolate cake

Mehdi Hasan 15:05 ... and then he found out how much each missile cost, and then he was like, "I'm not doing that again."

Trevor Noah 15:10 All right.

Mehdi Hasan 15:10 So Donald Trump in his first term, uh, expanded every war he inherited from Barack Obama.

Trevor Noah 15:15 Yes, but you're not listening to what I'm saying. I'm not saying that he did what he did. I'm saying I think there is something that happens to you when you get into the White House-

Mehdi Hasan 15:24 Okay

Trevor Noah 15:24 ... that eclipses your views on war is what I'm saying. Because to your point, there is no-

Mehdi Hasan 15:29 Which would make sense. Pre-

Trevor Noah 15:29 There is no American president-

Mehdi Hasan 15:31 Yes

Trevor Noah 15:31 ... who has come in and not done war-

Mehdi Hasan 15:33 So-

Trevor Noah 15:33 ... is what I'm saying

Mehdi Hasan 15:34 ... so I, I would give you that. Pre-

Trevor Noah 15:35 But many of them have come in and said, "I'm not doing war."

Mehdi Hasan 15:37 I know, but Donald Trump's different to any other president because he's done these two terms with a gap, right?

Trevor Noah 15:41 Did you see you did his hands by-

Mehdi Hasan 15:42 I do the hands

Trevor Noah 15:43 ... like, the hands-

Mehdi Hasan 15:43 Don-

Trevor Noah 15:43 As soon as you said it, the hands came in

Mehdi Hasan 15:44 ... God, I'm turning into Trump now. Um-

Trevor Noah 15:46 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 15:47 Pre-2016 you could have got away with Donald Trump, yeah, you know, he's outsider, whatever. But we had first-term Trump. People just basically didn't wanna pay attention. People kept saying, "Well, he never started a new war," but every war he inherited he expanded, in Syria, in Iraq, in Afghanistan. He dropped the MOAB, the mother of all bombs, on Afghanistan. He did more drone strikes in his first two years than Obama did in eight years. People don't know this. They say Obama the drone president. He killed Qasem Soleimani, the Iranian general, in his final year in office, which could have sparked World War III. So he did all this shit. Uh, he pardoned war criminals. And then he goes into opposition, he does his little retreat at Mar-a-Lago. He makes his comeback, beats Ron DeSantis, and he goes to Michigan, he goes to Dearborn, he tells all these Arab Americans, "I'm gonna be anti-war. Kamala's with Liz Cheney. She's gonna send your people to die in the Middle East." And that people believed, and that was bullshit is what I'm saying. That, that period where he pretended to be pre-war. Then he comes in, does seven bomb- he bombs seven countries in 2024.

Trevor Noah 16:40 Right.

Mehdi Hasan 16:40 He started 2025 by going after Venezuela. He-

Trevor Noah 16:43 And I'm still saying-

Mehdi Hasan 16:44 And he did Iran. On Christmas Day he did Nigeria. We didn't even pay attention to that one.

Trevor Noah 16:46 And I'm, I'm still saying, in fact, that just proves my point.

Mehdi Hasan 16:49 Go on.

Trevor Noah 16:49 When you're outside the White House, you're like, "War's not good." When you go inside there, maybe it's like asbestos or something in the walls.

Mehdi Hasan 16:55 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 16:55 There could be something. I'm just saying, where else have you seen-

Mehdi Hasan 16:58 It's the military industrial complex, obviously

Trevor Noah 16:59 ... where, where else have you ... That's what I mean.

Mehdi Hasan 17:01 Yes.

Trevor Noah 17:01 That's what I mean. I think there is something-

Mehdi Hasan 17:02 But do you think if AOC ran for president, won the presidency, do you think she'd be a warmonger too?

Trevor Noah 17:07 I don't know, and I would love to see. Maybe. Maybe-

Mehdi Hasan 17:09 I'd love to see

Trevor Noah 17:09 ... maybe she wouldn't be. Uh, I, I have a belief that women don't go to war as much as men do.

Mehdi Hasan 17:14 Eh.

Trevor Noah 17:14 I think that women don't think of it as a solution-

Mehdi Hasan 17:16 [clears throat]

Trevor Noah 17:16 ... the same way that men do.

Mehdi Hasan 17:17 I mean, Hillary Clinton had a very hawkish record.

Trevor Noah 17:19 As president.

Mehdi Hasan 17:21 Okay.

Trevor Noah 17:21 We must talk about as president. Do you get what I'm saying?

Mehdi Hasan 17:23 Yes.

Trevor Noah 17:24 So I'm, I'm just saying, I don't think so.

Mehdi Hasan 17:25 We haven't had a woman president, so we can't test that hypothesis.

Trevor Noah 17:27 You see? That's, so that's why we need to have one. Just-

Mehdi Hasan 17:29 We had a, we had a, we had female prime ministers in the UK

Trevor Noah 17:31 ... as I say when I'm ordering extra food from a restaurant, we must do it for science.

Mehdi Hasan 17:34 Okay. [laughs] To, to test-

Trevor Noah 17:35 But just, just ... Well, you must see. How can you know things without testing them out?

Mehdi Hasan 17:39 That's a good point.

Trevor Noah 17:40 Do you know what I mean?

Mehdi Hasan 17:40 Yes.

Trevor Noah 17:40 How, how can you?

Mehdi Hasan 17:41 Here we are testing Donald Trump for another four fucking years.

Trevor Noah 17:44 [laughs] Do you feel like this has consumed your life as a person?

Mehdi Hasan 17:47 Yes. Yes. I moved to the United States of America in March of 2015. He came down that golden escalator in May of 2015. So my entire period in this country-

Trevor Noah 17:56 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 17:56 ... has been dominated by this orange freak, in my private life, my public life, my waking

Mehdi Hasan 18:01 hours, my sleeping hours. I thought we'd got rid of him in 2021, and then he comes back again. I just can't get away from him.

Trevor Noah 18:07 But what, but what I say is-

Mehdi Hasan 18:08 Literally, as, as I, I, you know, I'm a Muslim, I'm an immigrant, I'm a journalist, every aspect of my identity intertwined with his.

Trevor Noah 18:12 Oh, yeah, it's fully-

Mehdi Hasan 18:13 Hate targets

Trevor Noah 18:13 ... it's, it's ... There's no, there's no part of you that can escape it in a way.

Mehdi Hasan 18:15 No, I just switch off and have a holiday, and I won't think about him, or I'll hang out with my kids, but my kids are Muslim American kids who have to grow up in this country with Trump as president.

Trevor Noah 18:21 What moved you to the US?

Mehdi Hasan 18:23 A couple of things. One is just journalism opportunities-

Trevor Noah 18:27 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 18:27 ... greater here, I thought. And secondly is my wife is American, and a happy wife is a happy life.

Trevor Noah 18:31 Oh, nice. Okay.

Mehdi Hasan 18:32 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 18:32 So where did you guys meet?

Mehdi Hasan 18:33 We met in California.

Trevor Noah 18:35 Nice.

Mehdi Hasan 18:35 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 18:36 Were you just here on a vacation?

Mehdi Hasan 18:37 We-

Trevor Noah 18:37 Was it like a-

Mehdi Hasan 18:37 Yeah, yeah, I was on v- I d- a lot of vacation. I have a lot of friends and family in America. She moved to the UK, right? So the first half of our marriage she lived in the UK, and she was like, "When are we moving to the US?" And I was like, "What am I gonna do in the US? I'm a Brown left-wing Muslim. Who's gonna hire me?" Right? So when I ended up working at the HuffPost, which was owned by Arianna Huffington at the time-

Trevor Noah 18:57 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 18:57 ... AOL.

Trevor Noah 18:58 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 18:58 It was like an American company. So I was like, "All right. Let's see if I can make a shift."

Trevor Noah 19:02 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 19:02 So I ended up here in 2015 thinking, "I'll be here for t- a couple years." That was the agreement. I'll come here for a couple years-

Trevor Noah 19:06 That's what everyone says. Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 19:07 ... I'm a, I'm a cover the Hillary Clinton presidency.

Trevor Noah 19:11 Best laid plans. Now, I d- I am not a fan of blaming people for things that m- most would argue are out of their control.

Mehdi Hasan 19:19 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 19:19 But just in the little time we've been speaking, I've noticed a pattern.

Mehdi Hasan 19:22 Okay. I supported Liverpool. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 19:24 Hasan started supporting Liverpool.

Mehdi Hasan 19:25 Because?

Trevor Noah 19:26 Mehdi Hasan started supporting Liverpool, and then, uh, Liverpool went through its worst period ever.

Mehdi Hasan 19:31 Yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 19:32 Mehdi Hasan moved to America.

Mehdi Hasan 19:34 Golden escalator happened.

Trevor Noah 19:35 And the golden escalator happened, and now the rest is history.

Mehdi Hasan 19:38 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 19:39 So I-

Mehdi Hasan 19:39 What should I do next?

Trevor Noah 19:41 I mean, you tell me.

Mehdi Hasan 19:42 I'm gonna buy a plane ticket to Tel Aviv.

Trevor Noah 19:44 [laughs] Can I ask you a question?

Mehdi Hasan 19:49 Sure.

Trevor Noah 19:49 Can I ask you a question?

Mehdi Hasan 19:50 I mean, I'm here just to answer your questions, Trevor.

Trevor Noah 19:51 Do you, do you think ... No, no, you're not.

Mehdi Hasan 19:53 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 19:53 You're here to have a conversation.

Mehdi Hasan 19:54 Yeah, a conversation.

Trevor Noah 19:54 You're here to have a conversation.

Mehdi Hasan 19:55 I've got a few for you, though.

Trevor Noah 19:56 We've got with ... Unbuttoned. There's no ties here.

Mehdi Hasan 19:58 Yeah, there's no ties.

Trevor Noah 19:58 There's no corporate overlords.

Mehdi Hasan 20:00 No, we're all free.

Trevor Noah 20:00 Mehdi can do whatever we ... We could all start freestyle rapping right now.

Mehdi Hasan 20:03 Can we?

Trevor Noah 20:03 We, uh ... Ma, uh, go boop, boop, boop.

Mehdi Hasan 20:04 You know what we should do?

Trevor Noah 20:05 Boop, boop, boop.

Mehdi Hasan 20:05 I'm not very good at that. Let's talk about Liverpool.

Trevor Noah 20:07 If we, if we, if we-

Mehdi Hasan 20:08 Let's talk about Liverpool.

Trevor Noah 20:09 This guy.

Mehdi Hasan 20:10 [laughs] You see.

Trevor Noah 20:10 This guy. You see, you-

Mehdi Hasan 20:10 I thought it was all ... [laughs]

Trevor Noah 20:11 This guy. There is one tenet of this organization.

Mehdi Hasan 20:14 Yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 20:14 Please, please, Eugene. No. Um, no, but like I, I ... W- what, what I ... I mean, obviously that, that, that's a joke, you know. Um, I think more about, like, your life and as a person. Like, who, who was Mehdi before all of this? Like, how did you-

Mehdi Hasan 20:29 Hmm

Trevor Noah 20:29 ... get into this world ... F- first of all, you seem ... And not even seem. You are fully, like you fit fully into this position. I, I can't imagine you not doing what you do.

Mehdi Hasan 20:41 Nor can I.

Trevor Noah 20:42 You, you, you're passionate. You're well-informed. You are ... You, you see, when you tell me, "I don't take time off from this," I believe you. I don't go like, "Nah, this guy's just saying that."

Mehdi Hasan 20:50 No.

Trevor Noah 20:50 I'm like, no, this guy, you sleep it, you, you-

Mehdi Hasan 20:53 I do

Trevor Noah 20:53 ... you drink it-

Mehdi Hasan 20:53 Unfortunately

Trevor Noah 20:53 ... you think it, you ... You know what I mean?

Mehdi Hasan 20:55 Yeah. It, it's a problem.

Trevor Noah 20:56 Was, was that always you?

Mehdi Hasan 20:57 No.

Trevor Noah 20:58 When did that become you?

Mehdi Hasan 21:00 It's a good question. Um, I guess with the Trump phenomenon, Trump is just too generous. Like, hi- him taking on my life, I don't think any other politician can.

Trevor Noah 21:06 No, but I mean, like when you-

Mehdi Hasan 21:06 When I was in the UK-

Trevor Noah 21:07 ... look at me-

Mehdi Hasan 21:07 I don't think there was a single ... I covered UK politics for a living when I lived in the UK.

Trevor Noah 21:10 Okay, but how did you ... Let's go back. How did you get into that? What were you doing before that? What, like why journalism?

Mehdi Hasan 21:14 I've been a-

Trevor Noah 21:14 Why-

Mehdi Hasan 21:14 ... political journalist all my life.

Trevor Noah 21:15 Yeah, but why? W- where did this start? Like, w- were you-

Mehdi Hasan 21:18 Yeah

Trevor Noah 21:18 ... as a little kid, were you on the playground like, "Oh, I'm gonna cover the politics of the, of the-

Mehdi Hasan 21:21 Yeah, but like-

Trevor Noah 21:22 ... the Labor Party-

Mehdi Hasan 21:22 Not, not as a little kid

Trevor Noah 21:22 ... and what's happening with the Tories."

Mehdi Hasan 21:24 Not as a little kid, but maybe 15, 16, yeah, I get very political at that age.

Trevor Noah 21:27 What politicized you? What were you seeing?

Mehdi Hasan 21:29 The ... That's a good question. I mean, it wasn't a very interesting period. This is the mid-'90s. Po- politics was very quiet in those days. Remember, it was Clinton, Blair, end of history, all of that bullshit. Um, I don't know why I got so political. It was a very boring time. I don't know why I got into politics [laughs] at the most boring time. My dad was very political. Um-

Trevor Noah 21:45 What, in what way?

Mehdi Hasan 21:47 Uh, he loved politics. Got ... Old Indian men love politics in general, right? They just wanna talk about politics at any event, weddings, funerals.

Trevor Noah 21:53 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 21:53 They want to talk about what's happening in India, Pakistan, DC, London.

Trevor Noah 21:56 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 21:56 That's just a fact. Ask anyone. And o- often the conversation comes back to the role of the CIA, right?

Trevor Noah 22:01 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 22:01 So that's, that's, that's how most-

Trevor Noah 22:03 Sounds like your kind of guys, Eugene.

Mehdi Hasan 22:05 Yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 22:05 Let's go. [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 22:05 You, you'd hang out with, you need to hang out with Indian men circa 50 to 75.

Trevor Noah 22:10 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 22:10 But,

Mehdi Hasan 22:11 so my dad was very political all his life. He moved to the UK in 1966 and was obsessed with British politics.

Trevor Noah 22:16 Yeah? Hmm.

Mehdi Hasan 22:16 He was obsessed with British prime ministers, the Labour Party. He was obviously obsessed with Indian politics. So I grew up around him talking about politics, hearing about politics, watching the news. The news was on 24/7 in our house.

Trevor Noah 22:26 Okay.

Mehdi Hasan 22:26 Um, so when I ended up being on the news as a host, like, for my dad, it was, like, amazing. Most Indian parents were kind of disowning any child who became a journalist or a doctor.

Trevor Noah 22:33 Yeah, doctor, lawyer, engineer.

Mehdi Hasan 22:35 Yeah. You can't be a journalist.

Trevor Noah 22:36 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 22:36 Um, and my sister and I both end up as journalists. And, uh, my mother-

Trevor Noah 22:39 Your sister as well?

Mehdi Hasan 22:39 Yeah. My mother is not happy about this.

Trevor Noah 22:42 Hmm.

Mehdi Hasan 22:42 My mother is a doctor. My father is a engineer-

Trevor Noah 22:44 Oh

Mehdi Hasan 22:44 ... like a classic Indian couple. And my mother to this day is like, "Stop talking about Trump. Why don't you go be a lawyer or do something different? If you want to argue-

Trevor Noah 22:50 Why don't you make something of yourself?

Mehdi Hasan 22:51 "Why don't you make something of yourself? Why don't you be a lawyer? If you want to argue, be a lawyer." That's what she used to say to me, um, when I say used to say to me, like yesterday morning. Um-

Trevor Noah 22:59 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 22:59 So she hasn't given up. But my father was very proud of the fact that I was a journalist doing journalism, politics. He loved it. He loved ... Even, uh, he passed away last year, but even to-

Trevor Noah 23:08 I'm so sorry, man

Mehdi Hasan 23:09 ... th- thank you. Even to his last days, any time we spoke, he'd be like, "Are they really gonna run Joe Biden again? Really?" So-

Trevor Noah 23:16 So you, you f- you basically found yourself in his, like, this was, like, his league. You know? It's like, it's the Premier League or the NFL or the NBA of his w-

Mehdi Hasan 23:25 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 23:25 You found-

Mehdi Hasan 23:26 Yes.

Trevor Noah 23:26 But it, but it, it ... Correct me if I'm wrong, it seems then that the two of you ... It probably brings back good memories for you then.

Mehdi Hasan 23:34 Yes.

Trevor Noah 23:34 Because, because most people would've gone away from politics if it didn't bring back good memories. Does that make sense?

Mehdi Hasan 23:40 Yeah, no, but it was a great bonding moment for us.

Trevor Noah 23:41 But that's what I'm ... No, we didn't talk about Liverpool. My dad wasn't a football fan.

Mehdi Hasan 23:43 That's what I'm saying.

Trevor Noah 23:44 But we talked about-

Mehdi Hasan 23:44 That's what I'm saying

Trevor Noah 23:45 ... anytime he'd call me, he'd be like, "Oh, I watched this video you did. Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with what you said there about Trump," or whatever it is.

Mehdi Hasan 23:50 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 23:51 Um, so that was always an interest, even till the very end, that was what he wanted to talk about. He was very obs- any, any, any time I'd visit him, he always had the news on 24/7. So he'd be like, "Oh, you know, this happened, this happened. Do you know what's happening?" He was super informed, 'cause he just read The Guardian all day-

Mehdi Hasan 24:03 Right

Trevor Noah 24:04 ... watched Channel 4 News in the UK and CNN or whatever it is, Indian news. So that, that's in, that's in the household. That's there around me. And then generally I wrote about this in a book I wrote about debating, which is I grew up in a house where we were encouraged to debate and argue and question and dispute. Like, my dad and I talk about this in the book. In the late 1980s, Salman Rushdie publishes

Trevor Noah 24:23 The Satanic Verses.

Mehdi Hasan 24:24 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 24:24 Right? Muslims go crazy. It's a blasphemous book. It's insulting the Prophet, which it did. Um, Ayatollah Khomeini-

Mehdi Hasan 24:30 So that was, that was the one, they ... That's where the Khomeini-

Trevor Noah 24:31 The, the fatwa

Mehdi Hasan 24:32 ... the fatwa on him.

Trevor Noah 24:32 That he should be-

Mehdi Hasan 24:33 Yes, yeah

Trevor Noah 24:33 ... executed for b- ... And at the time, people in-

Mehdi Hasan 24:35 Do you know the story, Eugene?

Trevor Noah 24:36 Hmm. Oh, yeah. Tell, please tell the story, 'cause a lot of people I don't think just know it.

Mehdi Hasan 24:38 So Salman Rushdie, very famous Indian British novelist, uh, award-winning novelist, writes a, a novel which is kind of fictionalized version of some Islamic history as he understood it, in which the Prophet is portrayed in horrific ways as a baddie.

Trevor Noah 24:52 Mm-hmm.

Mehdi Hasan 24:52 And Muslims being very sensitive got very, very upset, to the point where at the time the ayatollah in Iran, the supreme leader of Iran then, uh, Ayatollah Khomeini, put out a very famous fatwa saying the punishment is death for this kind of writing. Rushdie had to go into hiding. He's still today... I mean, he got attacked a few years ago-

Trevor Noah 25:08 Yeah, he got stabbed

Mehdi Hasan 25:09 ... again. Uh, so it's never gone away, even after the death of Khomeini. And a lot of Muslims burned the book, even in, even in UK town-

Trevor Noah 25:16 Mm-hmm

Mehdi Hasan 25:16 ... not just in the Middle East.

Trevor Noah 25:17 In protest, yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 25:17 So it was a huge controversy, and Muslims, uh, then got attacked, of course, by Western politicians. You people are so backward and barbaric, and look at you, you don't believe in free speech. And my dad, in the midst of all this, late '80s, I'm like 10 years old. My dad buys The Satanic Verses, reads it, and then puts it on the bookshelf right by the dining table. So every time we have people over-

Trevor Noah 25:36 Mm. Mm. Mm

Mehdi Hasan 25:37 ... they're like, "What is going on?" They're furious. All my dad's friends are furious. "Why have you got this book here? Why would you have it?" And my dad would say, "Have you read it? And if you haven't read it, how can you be mad about it?" And that mentality, which was very provocative [laughs] in the Muslim community-

Trevor Noah 25:52 Wow

Mehdi Hasan 25:52 ... is something that I remember vividly. This idea that you shouldn't just blindly follow the crowd, you shouldn't just take what's given to you from on high. You've got to

Mehdi Hasan 26:00 question everything, no matter how sacred.

Trevor Noah 26:06 Did you read The Satanic Verses?

Mehdi Hasan 26:08 No comment. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 26:10 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 26:10 I did, I did.

Trevor Noah 26:11 And?

Mehdi Hasan 26:11 It's awful, but at least you read it. Like, I mean, I, I didn't read it as a piece of fic- literature. What do I know about literature? Salman Rushdie's an award-winning novelist. I'm not. And that's not the point. The point was, was it historically accurate? Was it offensive? All of that stuff. But the point is, obviously, I don't support, obviously, killing people for their views, obviously. Um, but I understood at the time, I, I understood why it had become such a wedge issue. You want to talk about culture wars today, I mean, that was a culture war issue-

Trevor Noah 26:35 Yeah, that was-

Mehdi Hasan 26:35 ... back in the day

Trevor Noah 26:36 ... that was viral before viral.

Mehdi Hasan 26:37 Exactly, yeah. Pre-internet, pre-days. Um, and you know, that's... And then it obviously gets rolled into everything else that then happens in the subsequent decades in the relation between Islam and the West.

Trevor Noah 26:46 I love that you were encouraged to argue and debate by your parents. I think-

Mehdi Hasan 26:50 Yeah, because a lot of Indian parents are like, "Shut up."

Trevor Noah 26:52 No, I mean a lot of parents in general-

Mehdi Hasan 26:54 Chappal

Trevor Noah 26:54 ... especially-

Mehdi Hasan 26:54 You heard the phrase chappal?

Trevor Noah 26:55 No. What is that?

Mehdi Hasan 26:56 So in the Pak culture, anyone watching here speaks Urdu know what it means. Chappal means I'm gonna get my sandal. Chappal is a sandal.

Trevor Noah 27:02 Oh, it's done.

Mehdi Hasan 27:02 That's just like, chappal. You're gonna get-

Trevor Noah 27:05 I actually... You've just taught me a new one now. Thank you so much.

Mehdi Hasan 27:07 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 27:08 Chappal.

Mehdi Hasan 27:08 Watch your, watch your is the chappal.

Trevor Noah 27:09 Chappal. I'm in.

Mehdi Hasan 27:10 And you remember-

Trevor Noah 27:11 I've got it for you, Genius.

Mehdi Hasan 27:12 My, my [laughs]

Trevor Noah 27:12 Chappal. Every time you say something anti-Liverpool, chappal right now.

Mehdi Hasan 27:15 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 27:15 I'm coming for you, bro.

Mehdi Hasan 27:16 Chappal. Double chappal.

Trevor Noah 27:17 Could you, could you debate at home? [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 27:21 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 27:23 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 27:23 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 27:23 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 27:23 You are such a chappal.

Trevor Noah 27:25 Chappal.

Mehdi Hasan 27:25 [laughs] No. I, I don't think there was time for, for debating, just you knew what you were told was what was going to happen anyway. I think if, if-

Trevor Noah 27:34 But if you answered back, did you get a slap?

Mehdi Hasan 27:36 No, no, no, no, no. I think if you grow up with a single mom, there's no, there's no one to defer to.

Trevor Noah 27:41 Okay. Oh, that's interesting.

Mehdi Hasan 27:42 So I th- I think when there's, a debate happens when there's someone to go, "Right, right. Talk to your wife."

Trevor Noah 27:46 Oh, yeah. When there's an audience to debate for.

Mehdi Hasan 27:48 Yeah. But now if someone goes, "At 6:00 we're doing this thing," and you're like, "But at 6..." And then they leave the room.

Trevor Noah 27:54 Zeteo.

Mehdi Hasan 27:55 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 27:55 It's the law.

Mehdi Hasan 27:56 It's the law. It is what it is.

Trevor Noah 27:57 Yeah, it's, it's just the law.

Mehdi Hasan 27:58 Yes. It is what it... Because when we saw debating is when we went to white kids' houses.

Trevor Noah 28:03 [laughs] Yeah, that was-

Mehdi Hasan 28:03 And we saw the back and forth.

Trevor Noah 28:04 Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo.

Mehdi Hasan 28:05 Oh, boy. Come on. What do I need to do that? They're like, "Yay."

Trevor Noah 28:07 Yo, yo, yo, yo.

Mehdi Hasan 28:08 The problem is-

Trevor Noah 28:09 The day Andrew, the day Andrew, my friend, told his dad, he said, "Come to dinner." And then he was like, "Uh, Dad, we're still playing."

Mehdi Hasan 28:15 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 28:15 And I remember my body-

Mehdi Hasan 28:17 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 28:17 ... getting tense.

Mehdi Hasan 28:18 He can't say that. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 28:19 Yeah, because I was like, I was waiting for his dad. And Andrew, like, he fully turned back. So his dad came to the door, and he was like, "Boys, time for dinner." And then he was like, "Uh, Dad, we're still playing."

Mehdi Hasan 28:27 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 28:27 And he didn't swear or anything. He wasn't, like, rude.

Mehdi Hasan 28:29 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 28:29 But he, he just said-

Mehdi Hasan 28:30 Yep

Trevor Noah 28:30 ... a thing that I would have never thought of.

Mehdi Hasan 28:31 Damn.

Trevor Noah 28:31 He's like, "Dad, we're still playing." Right? We're playing, uh, Command & Conquer, right? And he was like, "Dad, we're still playing." And then his dad, like, walked off. The whole period between us going to dinner and, and the dad come, I sat there tense waiting for-

Mehdi Hasan 28:47 The backlash.

Trevor Noah 28:47 Yeah. No, no. But I was like, he turned his back fully. I was like-

Mehdi Hasan 28:49 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 28:50 ... how is he so, "We're playing." And then he was, like, back here, and then I s- was like this the whole time now.

Mehdi Hasan 28:55 Yeah, on standby.

Trevor Noah 28:56 Could you like, you can't just, you can't-

Mehdi Hasan 28:57 Head on a swivel.

Trevor Noah 28:58 That, that to me was not a concept that ever existed.

Mehdi Hasan 29:00 But I think probably in hindsight it went too far with me in a way.

Trevor Noah 29:04 The debating?

Mehdi Hasan 29:05 'Cause now I'm, like, crazy.

Trevor Noah 29:06 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 29:08 Now my wife, my kids, my friends, my family, my colleagues have to put up with me being perpetually argumentative. Like, I can't help it.

Trevor Noah 29:14 But you enjoy it.

Mehdi Hasan 29:14 People have to remind me.

Trevor Noah 29:15 But you enjoy it.

Mehdi Hasan 29:16 Yeah, but they don't.

Trevor Noah 29:16 So, so- [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 29:18 [laughs] Doesn't matter whether I enjoy it. The people around me are like, "Shut the fuck up."

Trevor Noah 29:22 So when you got older, your mom was like, "Yep, you can have him now." [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 29:25 Yeah, yeah. 100%. 100%. Yeah, my, my-

Trevor Noah 29:28 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 29:28 I'm sure my mother would say that to my wife.

Trevor Noah 29:30 That's what, that's what, uh, someone said to me when I was in India, uh, on my first trip actually, where we were at a restaurant in New Delhi. And it was, like, a crew of people that, that's, you know, friends of friends that are similar, older men. And we g- one of the guys, we, we got into a debate wh- and I was having so much fun. And then one of the other people he worked with didn't know that I was having a good time, and then he came and, like, stopped. And he's like, and he's like, "Trevor," he's like, "I have to apologize to you. You have to know in India we debate for fun, Trevor. Please don't be of-" I was like, "Yo, my friend, I've found my people." That's all I... I was like, "I have found... This is the most fun I've ever had." 'Cause we also argue-

Mehdi Hasan 30:02 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 30:02 ... for fun in that way. But I guess depending on which culture you go to-

Mehdi Hasan 30:05 You just wanted to tell that story so you could do the accent again.

Trevor Noah 30:07 No, my friend, I do accents for every culture.

Mehdi Hasan 30:08 I know, but I love your Indian accent.

Trevor Noah 30:10 Every single cu-

Mehdi Hasan 30:10 You do.

Trevor Noah 30:10 And I, and by the way, I don't do-

Mehdi Hasan 30:12 I do

Trevor Noah 30:12 ... I don't do accents-

Mehdi Hasan 30:12 I like his Indian accent

Trevor Noah 30:13 ... I do the people.

Mehdi Hasan 30:15 Ah.

Trevor Noah 30:15 This is, this is a common mis- misconception people have about me.

Mehdi Hasan 30:17 So you imitate the person that you've met before.

Trevor Noah 30:19 Because I don't... I, I'm terrible at accents.

Mehdi Hasan 30:22 Are you? Are you?

Trevor Noah 30:22 I'm terrible at... I promise you, I'm terrible at accents, but I can remember how people speak.

Mehdi Hasan 30:27 Ah.

Trevor Noah 30:28 Does that make sense?

Mehdi Hasan 30:28 Yeah, yeah. Yes, it does.

Trevor Noah 30:29 So if you said to me, like, "Do an English accent," I'll be all over the place. Oh, what are you going for? Oh, no, don't even. Hey.

Mehdi Hasan 30:36 So who's a famous English person you can-

Trevor Noah 30:37 Well, I can do a certain person who's on television quite a lot.

Mehdi Hasan 30:41 Pierce Morgan.

Trevor Noah 30:41 And that's like... No. You know who that is.

Mehdi Hasan 30:43 Who? I think you did me-

Trevor Noah 30:44 And I'll next-

Mehdi Hasan 30:44 ... but it was really bad.

Trevor Noah 30:45 No, no, no, it's not. It's not.

Mehdi Hasan 30:46 Who?

Trevor Noah 30:46 It's not you.

Mehdi Hasan 30:46 Who?

Trevor Noah 30:47 Okay, I'll, I'll do, I'll do-

Mehdi Hasan 30:47 Was that Pierce Morgan?

Trevor Noah 30:48 I'll do it properly.

Mehdi Hasan 30:49 It's so bad that neither of us are getting it.

Trevor Noah 30:50 I'll do it properly. Hold on. Let me get into it.

Mehdi Hasan 30:51 That's it. That's it.

Trevor Noah 30:52 I'll, I'll do it, I'll do it properly. Hold on. 'Cause I haven't... I've, I've got to think of him doing it properly. Hold on. Give me a second. Give me a second. Give me a second.

Mehdi Hasan 30:56 Who gets there first out of you and me?

Trevor Noah 30:57 Give me a second. Hold on.

Mehdi Hasan 30:58 You're British.

Trevor Noah 30:58 Hold on. I-

Mehdi Hasan 30:59 Half British

Trevor Noah 30:59 ... haven't lived there for 10 years. I don't know which person to do.

Mehdi Hasan 31:00 Yeah, but don't be biased. You're gonna think of yourself.

Trevor Noah 31:02 Okay.

Mehdi Hasan 31:03 Clear your thoughts.

Trevor Noah 31:04 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 31:05 Breathe.

Trevor Noah 31:05 Okay. Chakra.

Mehdi Hasan 31:06 Let yourself go. You got it.

Trevor Noah 31:08 Go on.

Mehdi Hasan 31:09 Okay, let me, let me also channel him. Let me, let me get him completely. Well, that's bullshit. Absolute bullshit. And now, time for our next story

Trevor Noah 31:19 Jeremy Clarkson?

Mehdi Hasan 31:21 I- it, yeah, it, it veered into Jeremy.

Trevor Noah 31:23 Yeah, yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 31:23 It wasn't supposed to. It w- it wasn't supposed to, 'cause that, the, the bottom part was more Jeremy than him

Trevor Noah 31:28 ... left a gamble.

Mehdi Hasan 31:29 Yeah. It wa- it was, it was.

Trevor Noah 31:30 Yeah, it was.

Mehdi Hasan 31:30 And that's why the Bugatti Chiron-

Trevor Noah 31:32 Who is it?

Mehdi Hasan 31:32 It's, yeah, that's, that's, you're right. I went into a bit of Jeremy.

Trevor Noah 31:35 Gamble. But who did you begin with?

Mehdi Hasan 31:35 It was supposed to be Oliver, John Oliver.

Trevor Noah 31:38 Oh.

Mehdi Hasan 31:39 Oh.

Trevor Noah 31:39 Yeah, yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 31:39 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 31:39 Yeah, yeah.

Eugene 31:40 Not a good John Oliver.

Trevor Noah 31:40 No, no, no, no.

Mehdi Hasan 31:41 Not, 'cause I-

Trevor Noah 31:41 Stick to the Indian one

Mehdi Hasan 31:41 ... 'cause I haven't, it's, 'cause you're throwing me off right now.

Trevor Noah 31:44 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 31:45 By the end of this, I'm gonna do you, and then it's gonna be over for you.

Eugene 31:48 [laughs] If you do me like you did John Oliver, it'll be like any British person.

Trevor Noah 31:51 [laughs]

Eugene 31:51 Like 60 million Brits, Trevor can't do any of them. Clarkson, Oliver, Hasan. And your defense will be, "Well, I didn't know Mehdi was British. I thought he was just Mehdi from the internet."

Trevor Noah 32:00 [laughs] He is just Mehdi.

Mehdi Hasan 32:00 He is just Mehdi.

Trevor Noah 32:01 Your accent has probably changed a lot.

Mehdi Hasan 32:02 It has.

Trevor Noah 32:03 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 32:03 Well, I'm a bit of a sponge, so I pick up stuff wherever I go. So people make, my, my British friends when I go back make fun of me. But when I go back, I speak British. But when I'm with Americans-

Trevor Noah 32:11 You code switch

Mehdi Hasan 32:12 ... I code switch a bit, and then British people who are in my presence will say, "That's weird. You don't talk like that when you talk to us." But-

Trevor Noah 32:18 Do they say you sound American?

Mehdi Hasan 32:19 When my wife moved to the UK, she had known me [laughs] for, like, two, I don't know, how many years before we got married. When she moved to the UK-

Trevor Noah 32:25 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 32:25 ... and saw me in my habitat-

Trevor Noah 32:27 Mm-hmm

Mehdi Hasan 32:27 ... natural habitat, David Attenborough, talking to Brits, she's like, "Who the hell are you?" She said, "You don't talk to me like that." I said, "'Cause you're Texan." So when I go to India, I become a bit more Indian. I speak a little bit with a touch when I speak to elders in my community. We al-

Trevor Noah 32:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Mehdi Hasan 32:39 ... I mean, I just-

Trevor Noah 32:40 Oh

Mehdi Hasan 32:40 ... I'm a bit spongy.

Trevor Noah 32:41 No, you, but you can't not be.

Mehdi Hasan 32:43 I'm a bit spongy.

Trevor Noah 32:43 With, with my gran- think about it, Eugen-

Mehdi Hasan 32:45 Mm

Trevor Noah 32:45 ... you as Eugene, the way you speak to us here-

Mehdi Hasan 32:46 But people attempt it though. Yeah

Trevor Noah 32:47 ... no, you c- this is what people don't understand. People like to think of it as switch- I think this is an academic use-

Mehdi Hasan 32:55 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 32:55 ... of, of a, you know, an academic understanding. Oh, you're code switching. No. If you have ever lived in multilingual cultures-

Mehdi Hasan 33:03 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 33:03 ... you have to learn how to speak different languages-

Mehdi Hasan 33:05 Yeah

Trevor Noah 33:05 ... to different people, even in the same language.

Mehdi Hasan 33:07 To other people, yes.

Trevor Noah 33:07 So if you think about it, the Zulu that you would speak with your friends-

Mehdi Hasan 33:11 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 33:11 ... is not the Zulu you would speak to your grandmother.

Mehdi Hasan 33:13 Mm.

Trevor Noah 33:14 Even though it's still Zulu.

Mehdi Hasan 33:15 Well-

Trevor Noah 33:16 The way you would say the words, the way you would-

Mehdi Hasan 33:17 Yeah

Trevor Noah 33:17 ... the, your, your inferences-

Mehdi Hasan 33:19 I wouldn't put certain t- yeah, words, yeah

Trevor Noah 33:19 ... your accent, the, the-

Mehdi Hasan 33:21 Well-

Trevor Noah 33:21 ... even, even your tone has to change completely. So what I'm saying is sometimes people take for granted that anyone who's grown up in a world where there are multiple languages learns how to speak the language of the people they're speaking to.

Mehdi Hasan 33:32 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 33:32 It's, it's not just, like, being, uh, that's why I say, like, when people say, like, "Oh, you're code switching," it's like, yeah, on an academic level, I understand that.

Mehdi Hasan 33:39 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 33:39 But it's, it's not-

Mehdi Hasan 33:40 But I couldn't talk to my-

Trevor Noah 33:41 I couldn't talk to my grandmother with this accent. My grandmother-

Mehdi Hasan 33:43 But it's not conscious, right? That's the key point. I'm not doing it consciously. I don't know I'm doing it till people point it out to me.

Trevor Noah 33:47 Yeah, no, no, you don't.

Mehdi Hasan 33:48 And also, here's the other interesting thing. With me, it's a double whammy, because not only is it, okay, I'm living in America and our family are British American. I have kids, one of whom, you know, grew up in the UK, one mostly grew up in the US. But-

Trevor Noah 33:57 So the accents are different?

Mehdi Hasan 33:58 My older daughter still has her-

Trevor Noah 34:00 The British accent?

Mehdi Hasan 34:01 ... solid, not solid. I'd say 60% British-

Trevor Noah 34:03 Mm-hmm

Mehdi Hasan 34:03 ... 55, 60. She kept onto it in the last 10 years. But my younger one came very young. So what I would say here is I'm also on TV.

Trevor Noah 34:10 Mm-hmm.

Mehdi Hasan 34:10 I also did three years of prime time American television.

Trevor Noah 34:13 Mm-hmm.

Mehdi Hasan 34:13 So just, I had to switch. So peop- I would have people, producers would say, "If you use that phrase, no one will know what the hell you're saying." So I also had to therefore consciously switch times. I would wanna use a British euphemism or phrase, and my team would just look at me blankly, say, "No one knows what that means." I'd be like, "Really?"

Trevor Noah 34:27 We've never heard of that phrase. Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 34:28 Never heard of that phrase.

Trevor Noah 34:28 That happens.

Mehdi Hasan 34:28 And I'd say, "You've never heard of that phrase?" And I, and then I, and then I'd start doing things like, um, I'd be on TV talking about, I don't know, the war in Ukraine. I remember MSNBC, and I'd say, "They fired missiles." And then people would say, and then friends of mine would say, "You say missiles now? You don't say missiles?" And I'd be like, "I don't know. I don't even know."

Trevor Noah 34:44 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 34:44 In fact, telling you the story right now-

Trevor Noah 34:45 Their friends are the worst

Mehdi Hasan 34:45 ... I'm not sure, as I'm talking to you, I'm not sure which one's which.

Trevor Noah 34:49 Which one it is.

Mehdi Hasan 34:50 Which one's British, which one's American.

Trevor Noah 34:51 [laughs] Mine was, um, controversy and con-

Mehdi Hasan 34:53 Yes

Trevor Noah 34:54 ... controversy.

Mehdi Hasan 34:54 Controversy.

Trevor Noah 34:54 Yes.

Mehdi Hasan 34:54 So I slowly, it took me four years. MSNBC, two and a half years. And last year, I switched to controversy.

Trevor Noah 35:00 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 35:00 I said con- controversy for years.

Trevor Noah 35:02 Yeah, controversy for years, and then I switched it to c-

Mehdi Hasan 35:05 Controversy

Trevor Noah 35:05 ... controversy.

Mehdi Hasan 35:05 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 35:06 So it goes-

Mehdi Hasan 35:07 That's a classic

Trevor Noah 35:07 ... yeah, it goes back and forth. It's, it's, it's just one of those things that happens. It's life.

Mehdi Hasan 35:11 But I still say tomato.

Trevor Noah 35:13 You can't change that one though.

Mehdi Hasan 35:14 Can't change that.

Trevor Noah 35:14 Tomato is a weird one. Eugene says water, but even in-

Mehdi Hasan 35:17 I do say w-

Trevor Noah 35:17 ... in South Africa

Mehdi Hasan 35:18 ... I say water a little bit American.

Trevor Noah 35:19 He says water even in South Africa now.

Eugene 35:20 If you give me a thirst, yes, it.

Trevor Noah 35:21 [laughs] Can I get some water?

Mehdi Hasan 35:22 He wants some water.

Eugene 35:22 Can I have some water?

Trevor Noah 35:23 Can I get some water?

Eugene 35:24 No, can I have a water?

Trevor Noah 35:26 That's exactly how you say it.

Mehdi Hasan 35:27 A water. That's a good point.

Eugene 35:28 You say a water-

Mehdi Hasan 35:28 A noun

Eugene 35:29 ... you're getting nothing.

Mehdi Hasan 35:29 You're getting a noun.

Trevor Noah 35:31 Eugene is slowly transforming into a white American woman.

Eugene 35:34 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 35:34 How long have you lived in the US?

Eugene 35:35 You have not two days.

Trevor Noah 35:36 [laughs]

Eugene 35:36 You have not [laughs] ... You have, we [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 35:41 I came here on Wednesday.

Eugene 35:43 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 35:43 And I got a water on Thursday.

Trevor Noah 35:44 [laughs] Don't go anywhere, 'cause we got more What Now after this. All right, Eugene.

Eugene 35:52 Mm.

Trevor Noah 35:53 Let's play a little game. You know, make something fun. Two truths and a lie.

Eugene 35:57 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 35:58 Here we go. One, I've had to tell a world leader that their fly was undone. Two, when getting dressed, I don't do sock, sock, shoe, shoe. I do sock, shoe, sock, shoe. Three, I've been a Verizon customer for 11 years. What do you think?

Eugene 36:15 Hm. Very confused. First of all, why would a world leader own a fly? 'Cause those things just come uninvited. Secondly, lying to your friends is not cool. It's never been a game.

Trevor Noah 36:25 No, Eugene, a, a fly is for, like the zip is what... And then it's, it's g- it's not a lie, it's a game where I'm try- it's like I give you inform- okay, I lied. All three are true, Eugene. And in case you were thinking, you know, Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring in your AT&T or T-Mobile bill, they'll give you a better deal. And the reason I've been with them for this long is just because I travel so much. I need a network that's reliable. That's right, a better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming, and phone deals. Take your AT&T or T-Mobile bill to your local Verizon store today. Get your better deal and start saving for real. Based on RootMetrics' best overall mobile network performance, US second half 2025. All rights reserved. You must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions, and restrictions apply.

Mehdi Hasan 37:23 So do you understand how two truths and a... Do, do you understand it now? I understand that you didn't have to lie first before telling me that Verizon is the best. No, I wasn't lying for... Eugene, it's not a lie. I wouldn't lie to you. It, it's a game. Okay, I'm sorry. I lied. Ah. [laughs] [upbeat music] So let me ask you a question. Is there, is there ever a part of you that worries about being left and, like, having an opinion and then also saying that you're in the news? What do you mean? So for a long time people said, "If you're a journalist- Oh ... you can't, like, have an opinion." Take a side. Just like the Supreme Court, you're supposed to be- Yeah, yeah ... you know? You're sup- Well, just- You're supposed to be- The Supreme Court was always bullshit. Now we know it's bullshit. Uh, I think the media... I mean, the media doesn't exist like that anymore. Yeah. I mean, look where we're sitting. We're just sitting in independent spaces. We're doing our thing. We're not bound by these old conventions. And the old conventions

Mehdi Hasan 38:21 shouldn't even bind the people still in mainstream media, I would argue. It's killing our mainstream media right now, 'cause people are fed up with being patronized by people who pretend that they're b- neutral or impartial, when we- Mm-hmm ... can clearly see they're not. I would rather have... You know, uh, there was a moment recently where Brendan Carr, who runs Donald Trump's FCC, he's like a censorship czar- Yeah ... he was at a media conference, I think it was the Semafor Conference in DC. Somebody started sending me clips saying, "Brendan Carr is talking about you." I was like, "You don't wanna be talked about by Trump censorship. You don't, you don't wanna be on that radar." Right. And I tune in, and somebody sends me the clip, and I watch it, and he's basically complaining that lots of lib- lots of mainstream journalists have left the media, and then now they're all like- Mm ... anti-Trump. And he's like, "See? See? We told you the media was biased against Trump." And then he goes, "At least with Mehdi Hasan, he hates Trump, but I like him, 'cause I know where I stand with him. He's very open about his biases, and then you can just read or watch whatever he does." And I was like, "A, that's a good point." [laughs] "B, I gotta take a shower now." [laughs] "C, I don't really wanna be on Brendan Carr's radar, 'cause I'm very happy with my life here, and I don't wanna be deported." So that's... So, you know, that, there's that thing where there is this sense of now people are in independent spaces, we're seeing their real colors, whatever it is. But my position has always been I would rather people put their biases on the table- Yeah ... and then just be fair, right? So when I do an interview, when I have a Trump person on, or I have a Israeli person, or I have someone who I disagree with from whatever government in the world, someone from the Saudi, someone, whatever it is, the, the... Everyone knows I'm critical of them. Right. Right. But I still try and be fair. I try and... I don't try and edit them in a bad way. I make sure they get enough time to speak and answer. I don't try and lie about, you know, the, in the quest- That, for me, is more important. That, for me, is fairness. Not this fake left, right, pick a point in the middle, and say, "I'm impartial." That bullshit's gotta go. No one accepts that anymore. It was never real to begin with. It's now become very apparent that there is no kind of fake impart... The view from nowhere they teach you at journal- journalism schools. You're outside the frame. That's, that's, in the UK, that's like a, that was, like, a big one. I think it's even bigger in the US, to be honest. No. US journalism schools, yes. No way. Yes. Mehdi, no way. Yes. Maybe the BBC. Yes, the BBC. Okay. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. Okay. The BBC. But the US journalism schools just churn out people saying stuff like this, and I think it's gotta end now. Okay. Okay, got it. And, you know, it's... Well, the BB- America and Britain have this role reversal, right? So in the UK, we have very, very impartial media, very, very heavily reg... We don't take a position. We're not tabloid. We're not sensationalist. And then you have all these really tabloidy newspapers. Really, really outspoken, provocative. The Sun, and The Mail, and all of that stuff. Yeah, that's true. Okay. And in the US, it's the reverse. You have all these crazy cable channels,

Mehdi Hasan 40:46 opinionated fire, you know, you know, uh, outspoken firebrands on, on cable and on TV, and then you have, like, really pla- really sta- New York Times, The Washington Post, very boring headlines. Very, we must keep our impartiality. So it's a weird reversal. But I feel like- I've always found- ... I feel like this world is more, i- it's... I, I could be wrong, but I, I feel like it suits you more. Like, you, you strike me as, like, a Wild West kinda guy. Yeah. It was, uh, it was weird that I ended up at MSNBC, to be honest. Yeah. When I was at Al Jazeera, where I was before, and I also wrote for The Intercept, people would say to me, 'cause I'd lived in the US for a few years, I'd gone viral a lot, uh, I turned up on The Daily Show with your good self, I remember, and people were saying to me at the time, "Oh, it's only a matter of time till CNN or MSNBC hire you." And I was like, "Don't be silly. Why would they hire me?" Yeah, yeah. "I don't fit that persona. I don't do what the other hosts do. They're never gonna hire someone like me." And then I was wrong. To be fair, MSNBC, Phil Griffin, who was president at the time, did come and offer me a job, and I had three and a half very successful, fun years there, uh, running my mouth. So in that sense- Running my mouth. Running- Is that a Britishism? No, no, no, I just liked it. I just liked that you said that. Running my mouth. It's what I do. I run my mouth. That's all I do in life. Is like no other skills in life. That's not true, man. That's not true. It is. You, you, you- Okay ... you're, you're an informer. You- For the police. [laughs] Oh. I, I knew there was something. That's funny weird. You know this guy in there, Werner? You c- Just when I think I couldn't love you anymore ... one thing a journalist never does- Just when I thought I couldn't love you anymore ... just never reveals their sources. [laughs] Yeah. You can't run your mouth and your sources. Journalism 101. No, but you don't... No, but I, but this is what I mean. I think, I think you are, um, like many British people, you will, you will, um, you'll try and, uh, dampen your, your achievements or what you do. Like, British people are very quick to be like, "I d- I do. I, I, I..." [laughs] And then you're like, "But you're the King of England." [laughs] "No, please, I, I just wear a, wear a crown sometimes. Fa, fa, fa, fa, fa." That's true. Do you know what I mean? That's, that's- Americans are much more- Yeah. No. You, you, you do, like, you, you do a shit ton of research. I don't think I know many more people who just know stats off the top of their head the way you do. Like, you, do you- I, I, I'm old now- Did you study like this? ... so I forget a few. Did you- No. 'Cause you- I mean- When you say study like this- No, I mean like this ... when, when, when you were a kid- Because- When you were a kid ... because- Did you r- did you remember everything in school? Were you able to- Yes, I had a very good memory as a kid. Yeah, you can recall information- Not anymore. Now I'm old and gray. But my, like, my daughter has a very good memory, has inherited that. Yeah. When I was young, yes, I had a very good memory. I could have rem- I could remember, you know, you know, put things on a table, I could remember it. Names, places. Yeah. Even today, I still remember obscure... Like, my wife will make fun of me that I will forget kids' birthdays, but I'll remember when the Six-Day War was in 1967. Damn. So that kind of random stuff is still in here. I have too much shit in here. You know, it's Sherlock Holmes, like, "The mind palace." [laughs] "You must clear things out." Like, I don't clear shit out. [laughs] So that's why I'm now in a situation where I can't remember, like, friends' names and stuff. But I can tell you, you know, which British- You should name your friends ... president was assassinated in 1900. Yeah, you should then name your friends after, like, major tragedies. Brother for days. Yeah, name your friends after tragedies in history- Yeah ... and then you'll never forget them. And then just tell them it's, like, your nickname for them. No, but I, but look, I also now do have to do a lot of prep. So I told you, I mentioned I wrote this book, and there's a chapter in the book on preparation. I do try and make it clear, especially to young people, 'cause they ask me this question, especially budding journalists, like, "How do you do what you do?" Like, I don't wing it. People think you wing things. And I- I don't think you wing anything This one I'm winging, 'cause I walked into this conversation with no prep.

Trevor Noah 43:58 That's, that's the way.

Mehdi Hasan 43:59 Normally I'd be like, "What's Trevor gonna ask me?"

Trevor Noah 44:00 That's the-

Mehdi Hasan 44:00 And I'll be ready, and I'll, and I, I walked in-

Trevor Noah 44:02 There's no ready-

Mehdi Hasan 44:02 ... blind

Trevor Noah 44:03 ... there's no ready at all

Mehdi Hasan 44:03 I didn't even know you were gonna be here.

Trevor Noah 44:04 That's-

Mehdi Hasan 44:05 So [laughs]

Trevor Noah 44:05 ... that's how we surprise you. Yeah, yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 44:07 I didn't even know when we started.

Trevor Noah 44:08 Bam.

Eugene 44:10 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 44:10 Um, here we go.

Trevor Noah 44:10 That's what we're doing.

Mehdi Hasan 44:11 Yeah, see, you got me.

Trevor Noah 44:11 Mehdi Hasan caught off guard.

Mehdi Hasan 44:13 Ambushed, ambushed.

Eugene 44:14 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 44:14 So normally I prep a lot.

Trevor Noah 44:14 That's what we're gonna put here, Mehdi Hasan ambushed.

Eugene 44:17 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 44:17 And we're gonna play that clip for, "I didn't even know what you guys were gonna ask me."

Mehdi Hasan 44:20 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 44:20 "I can't believe you guys said this shit about me."

Mehdi Hasan 44:21 Who are you?

Trevor Noah 44:22 Yeah, there. [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 44:22 You look different from when we were on The Daily Show. Where did the hair come from?

Trevor Noah 44:25 What are you talking about?

Mehdi Hasan 44:25 You had a suit.

Trevor Noah 44:26 What are you... Ah.

Mehdi Hasan 44:27 It was a very different conversation.

Eugene 44:29 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 44:29 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 44:29 We talked about Pete Buttigieg.

Eugene 44:30 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 44:31 Um, I remember that. We had a conversation. It was a presidential debate, live debate.

Trevor Noah 44:34 Damn, you really have an insane memory.

Mehdi Hasan 44:36 I mean, I was the guest. Why would you remember? You had like a thousand guests.

Trevor Noah 44:38 No, but that's not the point. You, you have-

Mehdi Hasan 44:39 But I do remember what we talked about, yes

Trevor Noah 44:41 ... this, this, but that's my point. You have-

Mehdi Hasan 44:42 'Cause it was political

Trevor Noah 44:43 ... insane... Do you, do-

Mehdi Hasan 44:44 I remember politics for some reason.

Trevor Noah 44:45 Do you have-

Mehdi Hasan 44:46 It's just that

Trevor Noah 44:46 ... a tough time forgiving people in life?

Mehdi Hasan 44:48 Yes. Well, so I forgive, but I don't forget.

Trevor Noah 44:51 Yeah, but that's part of forgiving, I think.

Mehdi Hasan 44:53 No, I can't do it.

Trevor Noah 44:53 Forgetting.

Mehdi Hasan 44:54 I can't do it.

Trevor Noah 44:54 Yeah, part of-

Mehdi Hasan 44:55 No way.

Trevor Noah 44:55 No, no, no, I'll tell you why. Which, okay, you tell me why you don't think so.

Mehdi Hasan 44:58 Look, if I forgive you, I don't have to forget what you did.

Trevor Noah 45:01 I'm not saying have to.

Mehdi Hasan 45:02 Yeah, but I'm saying you said it's part of it.

Trevor Noah 45:04 I argue.

Mehdi Hasan 45:05 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 45:06 My, my belief is when you forgive somebody-

Mehdi Hasan 45:09 I didn't forget what you did-

Trevor Noah 45:11 When you, I'm saying, when you for-

Mehdi Hasan 45:12 ... an hour ago yesterday

Trevor Noah 45:13 ... when you forgive somebody-

Mehdi Hasan 45:14 It is

Trevor Noah 45:14 ... in my opinion-

Mehdi Hasan 45:15 Yeah

Trevor Noah 45:16 ... to your point, the part of your brain that is holding onto the memory-

Mehdi Hasan 45:19 Yeah

Trevor Noah 45:20 ... let's go. In my opinion, this is only my opinion. I'm not a neuroscientist.

Mehdi Hasan 45:23 No, that's a good point.

Trevor Noah 45:23 This is not medical advice.

Mehdi Hasan 45:24 So if, wait-

Trevor Noah 45:24 This is not anything. I d- I'm winging this,

Trevor Noah 45:27 for the record.

Mehdi Hasan 45:27 That's a good point.

Trevor Noah 45:27 This is my opinion, 100%. I believe when you forgive-

Mehdi Hasan 45:31 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 45:31 ... your brain or something happens in your mind, and you're more likely to forget, is my opinion.

Mehdi Hasan 45:36 No, that's a good point. I think that's a good point.

Trevor Noah 45:37 And so I find-

Mehdi Hasan 45:37 But what if you can't?

Trevor Noah 45:38 I find people, generally people who have amazing memories like this generally struggle to forgive.

Mehdi Hasan 45:46 It is a problem that I do remember things that I should just let go.

Trevor Noah 45:49 Right.

Mehdi Hasan 45:49 That is a problem. Just everything, personal, professional, political. I mean, it actually helps me in my journalism because the number one problem in this country is people have short memories, and that's why people in power get away with shit. Donald Trump.

Trevor Noah 45:58 Absolutely.

Mehdi Hasan 45:58 I gave you an example about the war thing. "Oh, he's anti-war." Then I have to remind people, "Okay, remember what happened between 2017 and 2021?" No, 'cause we all forgot it. I spent all of 2024 listening to Americans tell me, "Ah, you know what? If Donald Trump comes back, we survived him once. We can survive him again." No, we fucking didn't survive him. Half a million people died from COVID. But you've forgotten that, right? 'Cause Americans have the memories of goldfish. Like, eight seconds, nine seconds, done.

Trevor Noah 46:18 You know-

Mehdi Hasan 46:19 And I think-

Trevor Noah 46:19 ... goldfish actually have good memories

Mehdi Hasan 46:20 ... do they? It's a myth?

Trevor Noah 46:21 Yeah, this is-

Mehdi Hasan 46:21 It's an urban legend?

Trevor Noah 46:22 ... this is a myth

Mehdi Hasan 46:22 Should have fact-checked that-

Trevor Noah 46:22 We should check it now

Mehdi Hasan 46:23 ... before I put it in the book.

Trevor Noah 46:24 But we should check it now.

Mehdi Hasan 46:24 I put it in my book.

Trevor Noah 46:25 We should check it-

Mehdi Hasan 46:25 It's too late

Trevor Noah 46:25 ... right now.

Mehdi Hasan 46:26 It's in a, it's in a book two years old.

Trevor Noah 46:27 I, I believe, I remember reading this and maybe I read the wrong thing.

Mehdi Hasan 46:29 I'm a fact checker. Should have checked that.

Trevor Noah 46:30 No, no, we should, we should read it because I, I, we should check it up now, but I do believe that the goldfish thing is actually a myth.

Mehdi Hasan 46:35 So let's-

Trevor Noah 46:35 If it is a myth-

Mehdi Hasan 46:36 Where do you think it came from?

Trevor Noah 46:36 If it is a myth, then we should replace goldfish and we just, Americans should play the role of goldfish.

Eugene 46:40 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 46:41 That's not fair to Americans.

Trevor Noah 46:42 Memory of an American.

Mehdi Hasan 46:42 I don't agree.

Eugene 46:42 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 46:43 I don't agree with the phrase.

Trevor Noah 46:44 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 46:44 No, look, seriously, Americans have no memory.

Trevor Noah 46:46 No, that's not true.

Mehdi Hasan 46:46 I'm taking my American hat off-

Trevor Noah 46:48 No, that's not true

Mehdi Hasan 46:48 ... and wearing my immigrant British hat-

Trevor Noah 46:49 That's not, that's not true

Mehdi Hasan 46:50 ... as an outsider. 100% true.

Trevor Noah 46:51 That's not true.

Mehdi Hasan 46:52 100% true.

Trevor Noah 46:52 I don't think Amer-

Mehdi Hasan 46:53 People do not remember-

Trevor Noah 46:53 I don't think-

Mehdi Hasan 46:54 ... what happened last week

Trevor Noah 46:55 ... no. No, no, no.

Mehdi Hasan 46:55 And that's why everyone gets to reinvent themselves-

Trevor Noah 46:57 So-

Mehdi Hasan 46:57 ... rehabilitate themselves

Trevor Noah 46:58 ... so the, so the fact is myths, uh, goldfish actually have memories that span months, not seconds. Studies have shown that they can be trained to respond to signals for food.

Mehdi Hasan 47:06 Months.

Trevor Noah 47:06 Remember feeding times and navigate mazes, retaining that knowledge for at least several months.

Mehdi Hasan 47:10 Trevor, I wish Americans had the memory of months.

Trevor Noah 47:13 No.

Mehdi Hasan 47:13 'Cause we don't.

Trevor Noah 47:13 Let me tell you something, Mehdi. Let me tell you something.

Mehdi Hasan 47:15 What?

Trevor Noah 47:15 Here's where I'll disagree with you.

Mehdi Hasan 47:16 Please.

Trevor Noah 47:17 I think it is unfair to say Americans have bad, Americans do not have bad memory anything. I think any person who exists in an environment where they're constantly waterboarded with a media that is distracted-

Mehdi Hasan 47:32 Yeah

Trevor Noah 47:32 ... they are the people ... So I'll give you an example. In South Africa-

Mehdi Hasan 47:35 You're saying they're being overloaded

Trevor Noah 47:36 ... in South Africa, we had a commission, right? That is-

Mehdi Hasan 47:39 Mm

Trevor Noah 47:39 ... it is still ongoing.

Mehdi Hasan 47:40 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 47:41 Right. They-

Mehdi Hasan 47:41 It's on the break-

Trevor Noah 47:41 They, they-

Mehdi Hasan 47:42 ... the 1st of June

Trevor Noah 47:42 ... right. So we have a commission, uh, that's on corruption. If you talk to the average South African, they are fully focused on this commission.

Mehdi Hasan 47:51 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 47:51 How many months has it been going for?

Mehdi Hasan 47:52 Sjo, it's been long now. It's been almost a year now.

Trevor Noah 47:55 Almost a year. There's no South African who's forgotten about it.

Mehdi Hasan 47:58 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 47:58 There's no South African who doesn't talk about it. The, it is fully in the zeitgeist.

Mehdi Hasan 48:02 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 48:03 But I argue because the South African media has given it, that it is on television every single day-

Mehdi Hasan 48:09 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 48:09 ... that they're on.

Mehdi Hasan 48:10 It's on YouTube.

Eugene 48:10 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 48:10 The clips go out on YouTube. The clips go out on TikTok. People are seeing it. So all I'm saying is-

Mehdi Hasan 48:15 Yeah

Trevor Noah 48:15 ... all I'm saying is I, I'm not quick to say Americans have a bad memory. I've watched the news in America. I've seen a story that is breaking on a Monday, and by Wednesday-

Mehdi Hasan 48:27 Yes

Trevor Noah 48:27 ... they've moved on. And I'm like, "How have you moved on?"

Mehdi Hasan 48:29 No, that's a, that's a fair point about, especially the Trump era, where they, where the, the, the strategy is, right, what's the phrase? To flood the zone with shit.

Trevor Noah 48:36 Yes, exactly.

Mehdi Hasan 48:36 Right? That's the deliberate strategy of Steve Bannon and others.

Trevor Noah 48:38 Yes, exactly.

Eugene 48:38 It was a real strategy. [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 48:38 People, Americans didn't forget about Bill Clinton when that happened, the Monica Lewinsky.

Trevor Noah 48:42 But then before Trump-

Mehdi Hasan 48:43 The Americans didn't forget

Trevor Noah 48:43 ... before Trump we-

Mehdi Hasan 48:44 Americans didn't forget, Mehdi. No, Mehdi.

Trevor Noah 48:45 We did. We did.

Mehdi Hasan 48:46 No, Mehdi.

Trevor Noah 48:46 That's why, that's why-

Mehdi Hasan 48:47 No, Mehdi

Trevor Noah 48:47 ... that's why these people, that's why George, look at George Bush's approval ratings.

Eugene 48:50 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 48:50 They're really good right now. You know that? George Bush's approval ratings are good right now.

Mehdi Hasan 48:54 Yes, but it's-

Trevor Noah 48:55 Why?

Mehdi Hasan 48:55 No-

Trevor Noah 48:55 He left office as the most unpopular president. He should be sitting in The Hague facing war crimes charges.

Mehdi Hasan 49:00 He, he was-

Trevor Noah 49:00 He was, until Trump came along, he was the worst president of our lifetimes. But over time, Americans forgive and forget.

Mehdi Hasan 49:05 No, they forget.

Trevor Noah 49:05 They forgive and then they forget like you want them to.

Mehdi Hasan 49:07 They forget. No. They-

Trevor Noah 49:08 Look at right now with Iran. Why do they hate us? Why do they hate us? 'Cause we remember shit. We don't remember we shot down their plane, we deposed their government, we supported Saddam Hussein's inva- We don't have any memories of anything we did. We're bad at history. We're bad at remembering. So I've, I'm gonna respond to you, but then I also have a question for you. Um, so the first thing I will say is that, again, it's not people forgetting in my opinion. I don't think anyone forgot what George Bush did. I think because of recency bias and because of the way people perceive things that happen in time, George Bush now, for the average American, seems like a much better option than what they're experiencing at this moment in time. A, because they're not experiencing it right now.

Mehdi Hasan 49:50 I agree with that. I agree with that.

Trevor Noah 49:50 And B, because George Bush, I would argue, was doing worse things to the world than he was doing to Americans. So the average American, for the most part, was experiencing less, less of Bush's badness than the world was.

Mehdi Hasan 50:02 True.

Trevor Noah 50:03 Right? So that's what I think was happening. The other quest- the question, though, that I have for you for this is

Mehdi Hasan 50:08 When did you start saying we for, for, for what America was doing? That's a great question. That's a f- really good question. 'Cause I noticed- And I- ... you said we invaded them, we bombed them- I don't know the answer to that question. Sometimes, and you notice what I said before we, I said, "Americans have bad memories"- Yes ... and then I immediately clocked myself and said, "Let me put my British hat on, take my American hat off." Yeah, yeah, yeah. I- 'Cause I have multiple identities. So when I talk about bad American memories, I'm talking as an immigrant outsider, right? But then sometimes I'm an American insider. Now, that bothers Republicans. You know the new phrase du jour is deport and denaturalize. They say it about the mayor of New York, they said it about Ilhan Omar, they say it about me. Multiple Republican members of Congress have called for me to be deported. They say, "We're gonna send you back to the UK," which makes me laugh- [laughs] ... 'cause growing up, I was told to go back to India. People were sending you back to India. [laughs] Now it's like, "I'm gonna send you back to UK." [laughs] Ooh, that's a real scary insult. You're gonna send me back to London, are you? Oh, not to London. [laughs] Not there. So, the, I mean, you gotta get, you gotta hand it to the racists, they've gone up in the world. But that is the crap I get now, and, 'cause they don't accept me as a real American. Um, naturalized Americans are not real Americans apparently, unless you're Melania Trump. Uh, so that is a good question. I don't know when I started saying we. I wo- I wonder if my MSNBC team know. 'Cause I ke- I became a citizen October 2020, a month before the 2020 election, just in time to vote against Trump. And I don't know. It's a good question. I, I know I was very happy to be a citizen, um, because I wanna have skin in the game. Yeah. I don't wanna be just an outsider, just pundit running my mouth like a Piers Morgan when he was here. Mm. Shots fired. Um, obviously I have- Shots fired ... American kids and I have dual national kids. I have an American wife. Uh, and I, I live here. My, my future is here. No, no, no, I was just ask- I'm not, I'm not- So, no, no, I'm not saying to you, but just to people who wonder, like, some, "Oh, why does he live here if he doesn't like it so much?" No, I love it. I love it here. I don't like American foreign policy, I don't like Donald Trump, but I love the United States of America. I said it clearly, I spoke at a no king, I spoke at a No Kings rally, right? Two interesting things about that. I spoke at a No Kings protest. Number one, I spoke behind bulletproof glass, first time in my life. That's the world we live in now after Charlie Kirk. It's really strange, by the way. I love the organizers spent a lot of money on the bulletproof glass, but it was only at the front. There was nothing on the sides- Mm ... which I felt was a little bit of an inadequacy when there were people all around the stage. Anyways, that was weird, being behind bulletproof glass for the first time. Spoken hundreds of speeches in my life, first time behind bulletproof glass. Did it, did it make you give your speech differently? Like did you move a little bit more? Were you, were you a little- Yeah, I didn't have the same rapport. The audience felt distant- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... apart from the people on the sides who could shoot me at any time. [laughs] And then number two, my mother watched it- Oh ... 'cause it went viral and someone sent it to her. From the side? [laughs] She watched it from England. No. [laughs] And she called me and she goes, "Okay, I noticed you said, 'I love America.'" Mm. "I want to save my country." She goes, "When did you start talking like that? Before you tr-'" And I was like, "Ah, shit." 'Cause my mom's not a fan of the fact that I became an American. She wanted me to stay British. Oh, she wanted you to stay British? She's not a... Yeah, she's... But where was your mom born? My mom was born in India. Huh, what a beautiful irony. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Which is exactly the point I made to her. I said, "You became

Mehdi Hasan 52:51 an immigrant, moved to another country. Why can't I?" Nah, I think she's just anti-American. But what do you love so much about America, though? Uh, many things. Mm-hmm. Tell me. I'm here for it. All right. I love- America, Eugene loves America. Mm. So he's just asking for you to validate him. Well, you've only been here two days as well, this guy. Hey. Um, I- Best two days of my life. [laughs] I, uh... What do I love about America? Yeah. I love the, I love the sh- sheer space. Yeah. I love the fact that it's a big country. I love that flying to California is like flying to London. I love that. I love that this is a country, continent. Um, I love the fact that you go to different states, I travel a lot for work, and every state you go to is like a little mini country with its own kind of people- Mm ... problems, issues. Oh, great. I love that. I'm all about diversity. I'm, no, sorry, sorry, right-wingers, I love my diversity, my DEI. Um, so- [laughs] ... I love the fact that people are different wherever you go in this country. That's a, that's a good thing, not a bad thing. I love the food. I'm a foodie. I love junk food. I love American junk food and fast food. I'm not a snob. I love the shit stuff. Mm. Like, I was b- I was born from... I was at, I was at movie cinema last night, and I ordered a milkshake. It was- What did you watch? Uh, I watched Mandalorian and Grogu. Is it good? Are you a Star Wars fan? Yeah, I'm, I love- Who isn't? ... Mandalorian. Lots of people are not Star Wars fans. No. Okay, no, then I, I'm, I, then I would be careful then. I would say that I- If you're not a Star Wars fan, you probably won't love it. No, no, no. D- you no, this is why- I love it ... this is why I'm careful. So sometimes when people say, "Are you a fan of something?" Mm. They just mean, "Do you like it?" In fact, in general, I, I- Like are you into it? No, it means do you think about it? I'm... No, no, no. So you- It means on May the fourth. Do I say May the fourth be with you? Yes. Yes, but not as like a, like I have to. Or like that you- I just like that people have said that. No, no, no, no, no. I- Look, to answer your question, I love the TV show. Yes. It's hard to convert TV shows into movies. Yes. So to me- The Star Wars didn't work as a m- ... it's a movie ... it's a movie. Yeah, they made it a, it was- But it's doing very well at the box office ... nothing, it doesn't suck. It was doing well at the box office. It doesn't suck. It's good, but it's not great, and it could've been better. But I love the show and I love Pedro Pascal, so I went to watch it. But I ordered a milkshake. Yeah? And it came. It's a cl- I just thought, I love it. There were moments I was like, "I love America." Did it come in the Grogu cup? No, it didn't. Oh. But it came in a fucking huge cup. And I was like, "This is what I love." Well, first time I went back to England- Yeah ... when I realized I'm an American, I went back to England, I was doing my show for Al Jazeera, went to a cafe across from the filming, I ordered a brownie. Yeah. And this tiny little piece of shit came on the plate. [laughs] And I was like, "What is this?" I was like, "Oh, I'm in England." [laughs] And that's when I was like, "I'm American." What about the generally sunny disposition? Do, do you find- No, that I don't like. You don't like that? No, that, I'm very British. Do you, do you still have- American hat off, British hat on. O- okay. I'm, that, I, that, I, I don't wanna talk to you unnecessarily. I, I wanna keep my head down. I'm the guy on the t- the Tube- Yeah ... in the UK. You mind your own business, you keep your head down, you don't engage. Not, not- And New York is a little bit like that as well ... not giving people directions. No. Not- No. New Yorkers- Unnecessary chitchat. Here's a- No, "Have a nice day." Here's the thing people get wrong about New Yorkers, though. New Yorkers mind their own business. Yeah. Right? And because it's a fast pace, people will be like, "New Yorkers are not friendly." I, I, I don't agree with that. No, no. I just think New Yorkers understand that everyone's trying to get somewhere and go somewhere. Yes. So you can't be just stopping everyone, "Hey, how you doing? What, how's your life?" Yeah. You're interrupting people's lives. But if you wanna see how good New Yorkers are, do something wrong and they will very quickly correct you- Yes ... and help you. No, so, so- Like go, like say out loud, "Ah, I'm going s- you know, to Queens and I'm gonna take the whatever, the F train." Someone will be like, "No, no, hey, hey, hey, hey. Wrong, the wrong train." Yeah. [laughs] They'll be like, "No, don't-" To go back to your point about sunny disposition, if you mean, like, kind of department store, "Have a nice day," that annoys me. I love that. But if... You love it, okay, I'm not a fan. Um, but if you mean kind of sunny disposition as in- What's my world? My world is politics. If you mean kind of Barack Obama, Zoran Mamdani, inspiring speech, tear-jerking, I love that stuff.

Trevor Noah 56:16 Okay, so you like that part?

Mehdi Hasan 56:17 Yeah, like, I'm the guy who watched West Wing, and I... Corny West Wing. Like, people make fun of people like me. I loved the West Wing. I'm that guy. I apologize. I know people hate The West Wing.

Trevor Noah 56:24 No, what do you mean? You don't have to apologize.

Mehdi Hasan 56:25 Nobody watches West Wing now.

Trevor Noah 56:26 Yeah, but I mean, we don't-

Mehdi Hasan 56:27 But I, I love that sort of-

Trevor Noah 56:27 Why, why do we have to, why do we have to apologize for it?

Mehdi Hasan 56:29 The British political, the b- that, that, that British political cynicism, no, I'm not a fan of. I prefer the American-

Trevor Noah 56:33 Okay, so you've taken-

Mehdi Hasan 56:34 Hope-filled-

Trevor Noah 56:34 So you've taken on the, the general optimism.

Mehdi Hasan 56:36 Yes.

Trevor Noah 56:36 That's, that's the thing you love about America?

Mehdi Hasan 56:38 A democratic optimism.

Trevor Noah 56:38 I'm with you. I'm with you. But then when it comes to, like, the niceties and the dates-

Mehdi Hasan 56:41 Yeah, then I'm, I'm just a Brit-

Trevor Noah 56:42 You don't care for that at all

Mehdi Hasan 56:43 ... I'm, I'm still a Brit. I'm still a Brit there. It's like I can't be fake.

Trevor Noah 56:46 Do you have the, the fake apologetic thing that British people have?

Mehdi Hasan 56:49 Uh, I'm not sure. That's a good question. You'd have to ask someone else. [laughs] Do I? I don't.

Trevor Noah 56:54 You're not British.

Mehdi Hasan 56:54 Yes, I do. I apologize all the time.

Trevor Noah 56:56 No, I'm asking. I'm asking if he has it still. That's all.

Mehdi Hasan 57:00 I, I'm not sure. I don't know the answer to that question. You'd have to ask people around me.

Trevor Noah 57:05 So you're fully in then? This is like, this-

Mehdi Hasan 57:07 I'm fully in till I get deported. I'm fully in. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 57:09 Do you, are you worried about being deported?

Mehdi Hasan 57:10 Yes.

Trevor Noah 57:11 Why? Genuinely.

Mehdi Hasan 57:12 Are you, are you not?

Trevor Noah 57:14 No.

Mehdi Hasan 57:14 Then you're stupid.

Trevor Noah 57:16 Well-

Mehdi Hasan 57:16 Sorry. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 57:16 We're gonna clip that.

Mehdi Hasan 57:18 Sorry. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 57:18 We're gonna clip that for sure.

Mehdi Hasan 57:20 I don't know what to say.

Trevor Noah 57:21 Yo-

Mehdi Hasan 57:21 To a fellow non-white immigrant

Trevor Noah 57:22 ... if we, if we don't clip this thing and put in, like, oh, just the back and forths here with-

Mehdi Hasan 57:27 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 57:27 ... Jess-

Mehdi Hasan 57:28 No, but out of context

Trevor Noah 57:28 ... make sure we're clipping all of these moments, Jess, please

Mehdi Hasan 57:30 ... you're stupid. You're stupid.

Trevor Noah 57:31 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 57:31 No, no, look, I apolo-

Trevor Noah 57:31 Well, then you're stupid.

Mehdi Hasan 57:32 I apologize.

Trevor Noah 57:32 Everyone was just like, "Gang, gang, gang, gang."

Mehdi Hasan 57:33 I apologize.

Trevor Noah 57:34 No, no, no.

Mehdi Hasan 57:34 It was a, it was a sore spot with me.

Trevor Noah 57:35 No, no, no. Mehdi.

Mehdi Hasan 57:36 Non-white people-

Trevor Noah 57:36 Mehdi, Mehdi

Mehdi Hasan 57:37 ... do not take the threat of Trump seriously-

Trevor Noah 57:38 Mehdi

Mehdi Hasan 57:38 ... I think, have issues.

Trevor Noah 57:40 Mehdi. Mehdi. Do not apologize. You, you're making-

Mehdi Hasan 57:42 There you are

Trevor Noah 57:42 ... you're making my day.

Mehdi Hasan 57:43 I just proved my point.

Trevor Noah 57:44 You're making my day.

Mehdi Hasan 57:44 I just did a British apology.

Trevor Noah 57:45 Yeah, you d- okay, so you do have that thing. So-

Mehdi Hasan 57:47 I'm very sorry for, uh, apologizing.

Trevor Noah 57:48 Do not apologize. You made my day. 'Cause all, what I love is, I love the idea of us creating, like, a fake trailer for this interview.

Mehdi Hasan 57:56 Just hostile.

Trevor Noah 57:57 And it's just gonna be hostilities back and forth. "Well, you're, you're stupid." "What are you talking about? What do you know about? You're wrong about it."

Mehdi Hasan 58:02 "You're wrong. You're wrong."

Trevor Noah 58:02 And it's just ba, ba, ba. Mehdi Has- And we're just gonna put the craziest title on the thumbnail, and I wanna see how many people are gonna click on it, and then just go from there and be like-

Mehdi Hasan 58:10 Five minutes into the video, "And then I ordered a giant milkshake."

Trevor Noah 58:13 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 58:13 [laughs] Geopolitics at its best.

Trevor Noah 58:17 Do you think, uh-

Mehdi Hasan 58:18 Yes, I am worried about being deported. Yes. I, it would be-

Trevor Noah 58:20 So you-

Mehdi Hasan 58:20 ... insane not to be.

Trevor Noah 58:22 Okay, so-

Mehdi Hasan 58:22 I take this person seriously. Remember, I'm the guy in 2019-

Trevor Noah 58:24 Yes

Mehdi Hasan 58:25 ... who said, "Take it seriously. Trump will stay on"

Trevor Noah 58:26 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 58:27 "Because it's dumb, he said he just says this shit."

Trevor Noah 58:28 Oh, no.

Mehdi Hasan 58:28 So I've always taken him-

Trevor Noah 58:29 No, no, no, no, no, no, no

Mehdi Hasan 58:29 ... literally and seriously.

Trevor Noah 58:29 No, no, no. So maybe, maybe this is a semantic, um-

Mehdi Hasan 58:31 Yeah

Trevor Noah 58:31 ... misunderstanding that we're having. You asked me if I'm worried. You're not saying if I took it seriously or not. I think there's a difference for me.

Mehdi Hasan 58:37 Okay, explain that.

Trevor Noah 58:38 So there are things that I do not care to worry about as a person for myself.

Mehdi Hasan 58:42 Which you take seriously.

Trevor Noah 58:42 But I take it seriously.

Mehdi Hasan 58:43 Got it, got it. Okay.

Trevor Noah 58:44 So do I think there's a chance that they'll take away my ability to live in the US and kick me out?

Mehdi Hasan 58:48 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 58:48 I'm like, yeah, that's very possible.

Mehdi Hasan 58:49 Okay, then you're not stupid.

Trevor Noah 58:50 Yeah. But I go, do I worry about it? I can't worry about it. For me, it's Trump.

Mehdi Hasan 58:54 Oh, then in that sense, I don't worry about it either.

Trevor Noah 58:56 I cannot worry about it. Yeah, because I'm like-

Mehdi Hasan 58:56 Then I don't worry about it. I don't know-

Trevor Noah 58:57 Ah, got it

Mehdi Hasan 58:57 ... if it happens. If I worried about it, I wouldn't be doing what I do. I wouldn't be here in New- wouldn't be doing what you are.

Trevor Noah 58:59 Okay. Then, no, no, then we're saying the same thing.

Mehdi Hasan 59:01 I would've, I would've gone and become a lawyer like my mother asked me to.

Trevor Noah 59:03 Yes.

Mehdi Hasan 59:03 My mother says, "Stop talking about Trump. Keep your head down."

Trevor Noah 59:05 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 59:05 And I'm like, "Okay," and then I go do Jubilee and then-

Trevor Noah 59:07 Yes

Mehdi Hasan 59:07 ... and then I'm like, "Oh, I didn't keep my head down."

Trevor Noah 59:09 Yeah, I actually, I actually care, and I don't, I don't say this, like, just to say it. I actually care more about the people who have to worry about it. That's what I care more about. So, like, families being broken up.

Mehdi Hasan 59:17 Yes.

Trevor Noah 59:17 People who've built their lives here.

Mehdi Hasan 59:19 100%.

Trevor Noah 59:19 You've got multi-generation.

Mehdi Hasan 59:20 100%.

Trevor Noah 59:21 You've got, this is their only chance.

Mehdi Hasan 59:22 100%.

Trevor Noah 59:22 That's more the thing that I go, "Ah, Ma" ... And, and maybe a not so popular opinion, I worry for the United States.

Mehdi Hasan 59:29 I agree. Because-

Trevor Noah 59:29 Because I think, I think any, like, if you... You know, we've had this conversation. We talk about the repal- the replacement population or rate of, uh, replacement in China or in Germany or in Japan, places where they're seeing what happens when you're not having enough children being born or enough immigration.

Mehdi Hasan 59:47 When it's just you.

Trevor Noah 59:47 Your country cannot replace the population at a high enough rate to sustain your economy's growth, and there's almost no country that has done that without immigration. It's very difficult to do without immigration because this weird thing that happens-

Mehdi Hasan 59:59 No, Elon Musk says you can do it by having lots of kids, and he's trying to show us the way.

Trevor Noah 1:00:02 By the way, what was it like talking to his, um, Eugene-

Mehdi Hasan 1:00:05 Ashley

Trevor Noah 1:00:05 ... didn't you interview-

Mehdi Hasan 1:00:06 Ashley St. Clair, baby, baby mama.

Trevor Noah 1:00:08 His... [laughs] Mehdi, you really don't have a boss anymore. [laughs] I don't think I've ever heard a journalist say baby mama in my life, right?

Mehdi Hasan 1:00:14 She's that face.

Trevor Noah 1:00:15 With that accent. No, no, no, but the way he said it.

Mehdi Hasan 1:00:17 Baby mama.

Trevor Noah 1:00:17 Baby mama. Um, what did you make of that?

Mehdi Hasan 1:00:20 As a Brit, I'll say I apologize to Ashley St. Clair-

Trevor Noah 1:00:23 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:00:23 ... if she took any offense from that.

Trevor Noah 1:00:24 No, no, no. She seems cool now.

Mehdi Hasan 1:00:25 I mean, look, people ask me, "Do you trust the media?"

Trevor Noah 1:00:25 Yeah, yeah. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. You said she-

Mehdi Hasan 1:00:28 But I'm-

Trevor Noah 1:00:28 ... she seems cool now.

Mehdi Hasan 1:00:29 But I'm a cynic.

Trevor Noah 1:00:30 Yes, you are.

Mehdi Hasan 1:00:30 So I, I, this, I said this to Ashley when she was on the show-

Trevor Noah 1:00:32 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:00:32 ... with the utmost respect. I've dealt with too many people who kind of, "I've left Trump world, and I've converted," and then they haven't really converted, or they're just out there for the grift. Or, you know, you look at Michael Cohen, conned a lot of people. People at MSNBC when I was there loved Michael Cohen. He'd be on the show every day, and then suddenly he's back in the Trump fold or whatever. So I think a lot of these people I'm very skeptical of, like, who come very late to the party. Although, to be fair, she said she had no regrets. I mean, I asked her straight up, you know, "Do you regret being fooled by Elon Musk?" She goes, "No, I got a kid out of it." She goes, "I have my child, thankfully, so I would never do anything differently." But she, uh, she talked about how he impressed her and con- I don't understand how anyone... I find him to be one of the most repulsive, loathsome, charisma-free, humor-free people on the planet. I get it. He's the richest man in the world, so that has a certain appeal. But, uh, yeah, I g- I confused when, when I, when I talked to her about why she ended up with him.

Trevor Noah 1:01:19 Huh. What were you hoping to get out of that interview?

Mehdi Hasan 1:01:22 I wanted to know how much they paid her. They offered to pay her. She talked about-

Trevor Noah 1:01:25 Really?

Mehdi Hasan 1:01:26 ... they offered, they, she said on the show, she said, "They offered me the, uh, uh, an amount the size of a GDP of a small country to not speak," and she didn't sign it to k- keep her freedom to speak out. And she's been speaking out a lot. She's been a lot of places. She was on Jennifer Welch's podcast. She went to Hasanabi. She was on my show.

Trevor Noah 1:01:41 Why, so what, now this is, this is what's interesting to me. What does she say is the reason that she flipped her views on the world?

Mehdi Hasan 1:01:47 I asked her that question. I think she said it was being exposed to people she had not been exposed to, being, waking up to the grift on her side. She told some great stories about being in, like, WhatsApp and text groups with, like, Trump kids and eight MAGA influencers are all just getting the marching orders. Some of them are just getting money for what they're doing. You can cameo these guys, like, the equivalent of a few hundred bucks-

Trevor Noah 1:02:06 Right

Mehdi Hasan 1:02:06 ... you can get a MAGA influencer to say whatever you want them to say. We live in a world where you click online, you do not know if the person posting on Twitter, Instagram threads is posting because they believe that or someone's paid them. And that applies on both sides of the divide, by the way. You saw recently Tom Steyer, the guy running for governor of California, billionaire, was paying liberal influencers to say nice things about him.

Trevor Noah 1:02:22 I didn't see that, actually.

Mehdi Hasan 1:02:23 So it's the world we live in now. It's just me and you, Trevor, who are actually speaking from now. Everyone else is tr-

Trevor Noah 1:02:28 Ah, me, my man

Mehdi Hasan 1:02:29 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:02:29 I get paid to hang out with this guy called Eugene. South Africa pays me.

Mehdi Hasan 1:02:33 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:02:33 It's this weird deal that I have. They're like, "You have to roll with one."

Mehdi Hasan 1:02:36 You have to roll with one.

Trevor Noah 1:02:36 And I'm like, "Ah, okay, Eugene. Let's roll."

Mehdi Hasan 1:02:38 To keep, to keep the side up.

Trevor Noah 1:02:39 Let's roll, my friend.

Mehdi Hasan 1:02:40 The payout is a two-

Trevor Noah 1:02:41 My friend

Mehdi Hasan 1:02:42 ... bedroom, a small apartment block.

Trevor Noah 1:02:43 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:02:45 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:02:46 We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. Imagine this, you're at a checkout counter. You're ready to pay when you realize you don't have your wallet. Dun-dun-dun. You could drive all the way back home, and you could get it, but you remember that you have your Apple Card on your iPhone. So you can tap to pay with Apple Pay. Imagine that. No need to carry a wallet. But, you know, one of the things I do like about having my card on my phone is we live in a world where you lose your card, and then you don't know where it is. And then you're like, "What do I do?" Well, if your phone is connected to your card and your card is connected to your phone, you know what's going on. The best thing about having the Apple Card connected to your phone is you know what every transaction is. You know, like, sometimes you're like, "What did I spend this month?" The Apple Card will show you. One month, I had spent an obscene amount of money ordering videos online.

Mehdi Hasan 1:03:39 Just videos.

Trevor Noah 1:03:40 They were just videos.

Mehdi Hasan 1:03:41 What kind of videos?

Trevor Noah 1:03:42 That's not the point.

Mehdi Hasan 1:03:43 Sure.

Trevor Noah 1:03:43 The point is I knew that I didn't want to order those videos anymore because I'd spent too much money on it. It was videos on how to not spend money online.

Mehdi Hasan 1:03:54 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:03:54 I felt like I'd been duped. Point is, Apple showed me what I was spending my money on.

Mehdi Hasan 1:03:58 [laughs]

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Trevor Noah 1:04:28 I, I worry because there's, there's a, there's a gift and curse when it comes to everything, right? I say that all the time, but I do believe it. One of the curses of having a media that is controlled by a few people is that it is controlled by a few people, and we don't realize that our news is being filtered through the lens of a few.

Mehdi Hasan 1:04:46 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:04:47 One of the-

Mehdi Hasan 1:04:47 Getting fewer by the day

Trevor Noah 1:04:47 ... one of the gifts is that there's accountability because you know where to find these people.

Mehdi Hasan 1:04:51 Hm.

Trevor Noah 1:04:52 So even Fox News could be sued by Dominion Voting-

Mehdi Hasan 1:04:55 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:04:55 ... Systems, and they could lose, and they could pay the money, even Fox News in that way. But now with the internet the way it is-

Mehdi Hasan 1:05:02 Anonymous rando

Trevor Noah 1:05:03 ... you can run an entire campaign that lies to people. And the thing that I, I, I don't mean this like-

Mehdi Hasan 1:05:08 And you never find the source of it

Trevor Noah 1:05:09 ... yeah, I don't, I don't mean this, like, in a political way. Like, ah, disinformation. No, no, no. What I just mean is it can make human beings feel like their world is worse-

Mehdi Hasan 1:05:17 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:05:17 ... or better or different-

Mehdi Hasan 1:05:18 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:05:18 ... than it actually is. And it can make them create or vote for a world that is worse for themselves without realizing it. That's, that's, like, the, the most pernicious side of it is-

Mehdi Hasan 1:05:28 Do you remember the Johnny Depp, Amber Heard issue?

Trevor Noah 1:05:30 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:05:31 A lot of that was kind of online artificially boosted.

Trevor Noah 1:05:34 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:05:35 Um, the recent, um... Why am I forgetting the names? Uh, the recent big Hollywood row. I'm having a mind block. See, I'm old. I can remember wars.

Trevor Noah 1:05:43 Recent Hollywood row?

Mehdi Hasan 1:05:44 Blake Lively.

Trevor Noah 1:05:45 Oh, damn. Look at that.

Mehdi Hasan 1:05:46 And Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. A lot of that, there was a New York Times piece about what people were doing behind the scenes, uh, to gen up, you know, opposition to her. So y- you don't know what you can believe anymore. And a lot of people out there are just innocently living their lives, walking down the streets of Manhattan on their phones, not knowing that they're being ma- manipulated and gaslit.

Trevor Noah 1:06:01 Yeah. They're, they're seeing a lot of people saying something, but they don't know that those aren't a lot of people. Those are basically paid actors.

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:07 Or bots.

Trevor Noah 1:06:07 You know, you know how they put it in the bottom of an ad even on TV?

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:09 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:06:10 They'll, if you still watch TV, it'll say, "Not a real person. Paid actor." They, they, even, even in that world they have to tell you. I know that I'm telling you to take this medication-

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:18 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Trevor Noah 1:06:18 ... Skyrizi-

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:19 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:06:19 ... but I'm not a real person.

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:22 I love, by the way, that, you asked me what I love about America. I love pharmacy ads. They're hilarious.

Trevor Noah 1:06:25 They're amazing.

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:26 The drug ads are amazing.

Trevor Noah 1:06:27 They, they're phenomenal.

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:27 We don't have them in the UK.

Trevor Noah 1:06:28 They're phenomenal. They're phenomenal.

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:29 So when they read out the side effects, neh?

Trevor Noah 1:06:30 Yeah, yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:30 It cause diarrhea, a little memory loss.

Trevor Noah 1:06:32 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:33 And you, the hair in your eyeballs.

Trevor Noah 1:06:33 And they're smiling on screen as they say it. [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:35 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:06:35 My favorite is the fact that they say, "Ask your doctor about it." I'm like, if my doctor cannot tell me about the medication, I don't trust him.

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:41 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:06:42 It's just weird that you're gonna be like, "Ask your doctor about..." No, I'm just walking and be like, "So, Doctor, tell me about, uh..." I wonder how many doctors hate that, actually.

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:49 I know. Well, the side effects is death.

Trevor Noah 1:06:50 You're doing, you're doing your job. Okay.

Mehdi Hasan 1:06:52 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:06:52 No, that one doesn't get me. You know what the worst one is for me? I understand that all medication can have a side effect, and I understand that they have to list this. What gets me is when the side effect is the thing that you were being treated for in the first place.

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:02 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:07:02 That's the one that gets me.

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:03 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:07:04 That is not a side effect.

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:05 That's, that's the joke.

Trevor Noah 1:07:05 You understand what I'm saying?

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:06 Mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 1:07:06 So if they say, "You're, do you suffer from constipation? Take this medication. It may cause drowsiness. It may cause suicidal thoughts. It may cause death. It may cause skin rashes." That's side effects.

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:16 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:07:16 I understand this.

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:17 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:07:17 I'm not even judging you. But when you go, "Side effects may include constipation," that's not a side effect. That's the thing not working.

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:23 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:07:24 You can't... You must say, "Sometimes it doesn't work." You can't say the side effect of the thing is the thing that I already have. That's not how it works, bruv.

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:30 That's true.

Trevor Noah 1:07:30 That's when I have an issue with those ads. Otherwise, I think it's great.

Trevor Noah 1:07:33 I think it's a fun time.

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:35 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:07:35 I sit there, and I enjoy it.

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:36 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:07:36 What do you watch when you're watching stuff, by the way?

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:38 Oh, um, I've said this before because I don't really watch much other than action films.

Trevor Noah 1:07:42 Well, yeah. What, what's your go-to?

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:44 Jason Statham.

Trevor Noah 1:07:45 Ah, I like that.

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:46 I, I, I watch his films.

Trevor Noah 1:07:46 Because he's English or-

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:48 No, no. I knew you were gonna say that. No.

Trevor Noah 1:07:49 No, I don't know. I'm, I'm wondering.

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:50 No, I mean, I do love-

Trevor Noah 1:07:51 What, what is it about him?

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:51 ... I do love that, I do love that he has the kind of, they have to always give him some random English backstory, 'cause he can't do an American accent very well. So in the majority of movies-

Trevor Noah 1:07:58 Like me, I guess

Mehdi Hasan 1:07:59 ... in the majority of movies-

Trevor Noah 1:08:00 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:00 ... you can't do an English accent so far, we've seen. Poor John Oliver. The-

Trevor Noah 1:08:04 Because they can't, because he can't do a very good American accent-

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:07 I take offense to that. I take offense. I'll get it. I'll get it.

Trevor Noah 1:08:09 Stop it.

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:09 If he comes back, if he comes back, I'll get it.

Trevor Noah 1:08:11 If he comes back. But the Amer-

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:12 Just, if you ever watch Jeremy Clarkson yesterday.

Trevor Noah 1:08:13 Yeah, that's why.

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:13 This is what, this is what, that Grand Tour stuff is not my hate.

Trevor Noah 1:08:15 But that doesn't sound like Clarkson, either. But because he can't do an American accent, in most of the movies they give him some random backstory. He left the Marine, the Royal Marines, and then moved to become a bounty hunter.

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:24 Oh, they always do. They slide him in.

Trevor Noah 1:08:25 They always do. They're like, "This guy was something there. He was a, he left the Special Boat Service and moved to this island. Um, and-"

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:30 And now he has a normal job.

Trevor Noah 1:08:31 And now he has a normal job. Now he's just a fucking, you know. Even the one the other day, what was the one I watched the other day? I can't remember the name of it.

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:36 The Bee, The Beekeeper.

Trevor Noah 1:08:36 The Beekeeper's a great film.

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:37 Yeah, The Beekeeper was a good one.

Trevor Noah 1:08:38 I love The Beekeeper. But there was a really bad one recently where he was on an island. I didn't rate that one.

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:41 He was still a worker, though.

Trevor Noah 1:08:42 He's always a worker.

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:43 If I remember correctly. He's always, like, a-

Trevor Noah 1:08:44 He's always, like, a foreman, a driver. My favorite one, of course, Transporter movies.

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:47 I mean, but that's one of the greatest movies of all time, though.

Trevor Noah 1:08:49 He's, Transporter 1, 2, 3, they get better.

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:51 That made me want to buy the car.

Trevor Noah 1:08:52 One of the few sequels franchises. Oh, the Audi.

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:53 That's when you know a movie's dope.

Trevor Noah 1:08:54 Audi, Au- It was started with the BMW.

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:55 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:08:55 Then they switched to Audi.

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:56 They switched to the Audi.

Trevor Noah 1:08:57 The Audi was like, oof. You're like, "I want an Audi."

Mehdi Hasan 1:08:58 You gotta buy this Audi. You know when they can make, like, a, a, a family saloon

Trevor Noah 1:09:03 Look like, no, this is the car you need to be driving

Mehdi Hasan 1:09:05 It wasn't quite a family, so it was like an A8, but okay

Trevor Noah 1:09:07 Yeah, but I mean, it's like a big Goomba Goomba car

Mehdi Hasan 1:09:08 I had an Audi for a while after that. Not an A8. It was a, it was an SUV

Trevor Noah 1:09:11 So they got you [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:09:12 And I remember s- when I moved to the DC I had one, and that is a real American experience.

Trevor Noah 1:09:16 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:09:16 I was sitting in a parking lot at, like, a Walmart or somewhere, and my wife or kids or whatever was inside. This guy just walks up to me, big white guy, walks up to screen, looks at me and he goes, "Audi." I said, "Yes." He goes, "Hitler used that car with slave labor"

Trevor Noah 1:09:29 Damn, bro

Speaker 1:09:30 Dang

Mehdi Hasan 1:09:30 And I was like, in my... I was this close to saying-

Trevor Noah 1:09:32 Oof

Mehdi Hasan 1:09:33 ... "And the White House was built with slave labor down the street." But I'd just moved in, like a month in, so I was like, "Let's let it go, let it go."

Trevor Noah 1:09:37 Do you think beef just finds you?

Speaker 1:09:40 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:09:40 [laughs] It does. It does.

Trevor Noah 1:09:43 No, and I, I say this, I genuinely say... So I, I, like, my, my-

Mehdi Hasan 1:09:46 I was on the train today coming up

Trevor Noah 1:09:48 Yeah. And?

Mehdi Hasan 1:09:50 He might watch this. Sweet kid was next to me on the train. Turned out to be a fan, but he said to me, "Uh..." And if you're watching, no, you know, res- I'm saying this very respectfully. But beef, you know. We're in the middle of a train journey, and he-

Trevor Noah 1:10:02 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:10:02 ... turned to me and he's like, "Oh, yeah, I'm a big fan. I've seen your videos. I think..." And then he goes, "But, you know, but I don't agree with you on genocide. W- Tell me why you think it's not a genocide." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:10:10 Mm. Mm.

Mehdi Hasan 1:10:10 I said, "I can't do this here. We're on a Amtrak train. I'm gonna do Trevor Noah. I got to read my emails." I said, "I've done many videos. You can watch them." But it's like, it's hilarious to me that even the person I reckon on a train wants to have a debate about the Middle East right then and there.

Trevor Noah 1:10:23 You, yeah, I guess, yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:10:24 On an Amtrak train

Trevor Noah 1:10:24 ... you've got, maybe you have, like, debatable vibes. Maybe-

Mehdi Hasan 1:10:26 Debatable. Maybe-

Trevor Noah 1:10:26 Maybe give it off

Mehdi Hasan 1:10:27 ... I mean, to be fair, I then go and look for debates too, which is what friends and family tell me it's my fa- Like, I went and did Jubilee, which was probably a dumb thing to do if you don't want to have a debate about it, 'cause now people-

Trevor Noah 1:10:35 You must've been in heaven though

Mehdi Hasan 1:10:36 ... people under the age of 25, they don't know my name, they've never seen Zeteo, they've never seen Al Jazeera. They're just like, "You're that dude from the Circle debate."

Trevor Noah 1:10:42 But-

Mehdi Hasan 1:10:42 "You're that dude from Jubilee"

Trevor Noah 1:10:43 ... Mehdi, let's be honest. You were in heaven.

Mehdi Hasan 1:10:45 I was not in heaven.

Trevor Noah 1:10:45 You were in heaven.

Mehdi Hasan 1:10:46 It was two and a half hours of my life I will never get back.

Trevor Noah 1:10:48 Mehdi Hasan, you were-

Mehdi Hasan 1:10:49 I was not

Trevor Noah 1:10:49 ... let me tell you something. Have you seen it?

Mehdi Hasan 1:10:50 I was not. I was not.

Trevor Noah 1:10:51 So you know that series on, on YouTube where they'll put one person against a group of people in a circle, and they have to run to the middle and argue with you about something?

Mehdi Hasan 1:10:58 Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Trevor Noah 1:10:59 It'll be like-

Mehdi Hasan 1:10:59 I thought it would be heaven. It was not. It was hell.

Trevor Noah 1:11:01 Really? It-

Mehdi Hasan 1:11:02 I went thinking, "This is gonna be fun."

Trevor Noah 1:11:04 Okay

Mehdi Hasan 1:11:04 Right? Trump, 20 to 1. I like those odds.

Trevor Noah 1:11:07 [laughs]

Speaker 1:11:07 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:11:07 Let's do it. Someone like me, I'm like, "Yeah, let's do it." I go there, and you asked earlier about memory and dates.

Trevor Noah 1:11:13 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:11:14 I fucking prepared for this. I spent days preparing.

Trevor Noah 1:11:18 Mm.

Mehdi Hasan 1:11:18 I, my arg- You know you have four claims you have to make.

Trevor Noah 1:11:19 Yes, yes

Mehdi Hasan 1:11:20 I was like, I had my notes. I'd memorized constitutional amendment. My first argument was, Trump is anti the Constitution. Trump is, uh, pro crime. Trump... Well, I can't remember my claims. Trump is, uh, whatever it was, immigration. I don't know, immigration's good for America. I had all these provocative claims for this MAGA... And I had data, statistics, official reports, quotes, all up here.

Trevor Noah 1:11:39 Mm

Mehdi Hasan 1:11:39 I was ready. This is me. I went in. First guy sits down. I'm like, "Oh, yeah, the, the Constitution." He's like, "I don't care about the Constitution."

Trevor Noah 1:11:47 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:11:48 I'm like, "Oh, what do I do now?" It's like none of my facts or figures are relevant here, 'cause I'm surrounded by a bunch of white supremacists, fascists, and crazies. And that was a very strange experience for me, because I went in thinking, stupidly, not good faith debate, but some kind of debate. And what's interesting is, to be fair to Jubilee, and I've criticized Jubilee since doing it. To be fair to them, in other shows, Glenn Greenwald just did one recently with 20 MAGA people. I've watched other shows.

Trevor Noah 1:12:10 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:12:11 And I watch them and I go, "How come I didn't get those 20?" Like, every other show has some semi-normal people. For some reason, what do you say, beef finds me.

Trevor Noah 1:12:18 Beef finds you. [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:12:18 I get the 20 craziest people in the history of Jubilee. Like, I thought there'd be, like, two or three crazies and, like, 16, 17 normal.

Trevor Noah 1:12:26 But the whole squad was-

Mehdi Hasan 1:12:27 It was like 19 crazy, and there was, like, one normal guy

Trevor Noah 1:12:29 I genuinely thought you were loving it.

Mehdi Hasan 1:12:31 No, no. Didn't love it.

Trevor Noah 1:12:31 Just because of-

Mehdi Hasan 1:12:32 I, I-

Trevor Noah 1:12:32 ... just because of, like, how you roll in the debate, so that basically-

Mehdi Hasan 1:12:34 No, no

Trevor Noah 1:12:35 ... they, you run in. You would love it, actually. You would... No, we're gonna, I'll show it to you. I'll show you-

Mehdi Hasan 1:12:39 You would love to be one of the 20

Trevor Noah 1:12:39 ... No, I think Eugene would just love watching it. 'Cause it's, it's just chaos

Mehdi Hasan 1:12:42 It was two and a half hours in a warehouse in LA with a bunch of white supremacists. And look, I wanna make a serious point here. I do love debating, but this is gonna sound very strange and cliched. I'm also a human being, and you sit there for two and a half hours with person after person telling you, "You're not a real American. You're not a white person. Get out of my country." I didn't see that coming. I'll be honest. Maybe I was naive.

Trevor Noah 1:13:02 Mm

Mehdi Hasan 1:13:02 Because I've watched other Jubilees, and other hosts, other guests have not got that. Maybe th- those were white guys on the left who went on. Maybe 'cause I'm a brown Muslim, it was, it was worse for them. But it was a very strange experience to be told by one person after another, "You're not a real American. You don't belong here. Get out. You're gonna be the first to go."

Trevor Noah 1:13:16 Mm.

Mehdi Hasan 1:13:16 Then discover after the show that some of these people are, like, linked to the Proud Boys and are Nazis online. It's like, oh.

Trevor Noah 1:13:21 Oh, damn

Mehdi Hasan 1:13:22 I was sitting with some s- And I, I took, like, one security guy with me afterwards. I was like, maybe I should took, like, 20, because afterwards you're feeling like that's a very strange situation to be in.

Trevor Noah 1:13:29 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:13:29 That is not a debate. Like, and a lot of people attacked me. A lot of people on the left said, "Why did you do that? Because you gave the wrong vi- message out. You're saying that people of color should have to sit there and listen to white supremacists say this shit to their faces."

Trevor Noah 1:13:43 Yeah. Mm.

Mehdi Hasan 1:13:43 And I understood that, and I respect that. I got criticized from both sides. Um, and, and to this day people say, "Well, would you do it again? Do you regret doing it?" I don't know. I'm torn. That's why when you said I enjoyed it, like, I thought I would enjoy it, but I didn't.

Trevor Noah 1:13:54 That makes a lot of sense. Did, did it... Do you think it changed how seriously you took the situation in the country?

Mehdi Hasan 1:14:02 No, I already took it situation very seriously

Trevor Noah 1:14:03 No, no, but I'm saying do you think it changed that, the, the intensity-

Mehdi Hasan 1:14:04 No, but I hope others took it seriously.

Trevor Noah 1:14:06 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:14:06 That's the only redeeming feature. I hope the stupid people that we talked about earlier, who think this is all just a, you know, a bunch of old white men in Mississippi who are gonna die out, or the Republican party, they saw 20 young people-

Trevor Noah 1:14:16 Mm

Mehdi Hasan 1:14:16 ... in LA saying crazy antisemitic, Islamophobic-

Trevor Noah 1:14:21 We're coming for you-

Mehdi Hasan 1:14:22 ... anti-Black-

Trevor Noah 1:14:22 ... first

Mehdi Hasan 1:14:22 ... great replacement shit. And I think people don't realize this is not just some generational thing where, oh, the racists are just gonna die out and then we're gonna have a liberal multiracial America.

Trevor Noah 1:14:30 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:14:30 No, no, no. This is a serious problem. There's a huge movement on

Mehdi Hasan 1:14:34 the right that is young and vicious. The Nick Fuentes, the gropers. Some of these guys were linked to Nick Fuentes, I discovered later. And I think that is what was scary, and I think that was one of the redeeming features. When I look back and say, "Would I do it again? Do I regret doing it?" I, I certainly don't regret exposing. I hope I exposed it to whatever the 15 million people, whatever it is, who watched on YouTube to say, "You know, these people live amongst us. They are your neighbors." One of the guys, Connor, claims to have been fired after the show from his employer.

Trevor Noah 1:14:58 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:14:58 And I, I remember being on there thinking, as he said to me, "Yeah, I'm a fascist," as he played down the Holocaust. I'm like, "You're saying this?"

Trevor Noah 1:15:03 Mm.

Mehdi Hasan 1:15:03 I, I'm not naive enough to think that these views don't exist in American society. But the fact that you now live in a country where you think you can go on YouTube proudly and say it to cameras are filming you, your colleagues, your f- coworkers are gonna see this, and it doesn't bother you? That, for me, was very stark. Um, and actually for the vast majority of them, there was no consequences for airing those views on YouTube to millions That should tell us something about where we are as a country and what's acceptable now in discourse.

Trevor Noah 1:15:27 How, how afraid are you on a day-to-day basis? Like, just when you're, like, rolling in the streets living your life.

Mehdi Hasan 1:15:33 I'm okay.

Trevor Noah 1:15:33 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:15:34 I get a lot of love.

Trevor Noah 1:15:35 Okay.

Mehdi Hasan 1:15:36 They just, they just-

Trevor Noah 1:15:36 So the balance out

Mehdi Hasan 1:15:37 ... they just stay away. They just stay away.

Trevor Noah 1:15:39 Or they're digital.

Mehdi Hasan 1:15:40 Or they're digital, or they watch from afar. I got one guy recently shout at me in airport, said, "You should be deported. Get out my country."

Trevor Noah 1:15:46 Like, scream at you or just say it like normal?

Mehdi Hasan 1:15:48 No, just, he said under his breath. And I said-

Trevor Noah 1:15:50 That's even scarier in a weird way to me

Mehdi Hasan 1:15:51 ... well, he breathed. He said, he said it. He was like a middle-aged, middle-class guy. Not, didn't look like a, you know, normal guy.

Trevor Noah 1:15:56 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:15:57 So walked past me under his breath saying, "Get out," or whatever. Can't remember what he said. Depo- get, something about getting out the country.

Trevor Noah 1:16:02 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:16:02 And I said, "What did you say? Say it to my face."

Trevor Noah 1:16:04 Maybe he worked for the airport and he thought you were at the gate.

Mehdi Hasan 1:16:06 [laughs] Well, maybe. So I said-

Trevor Noah 1:16:07 Maybe he was just telling you I did. No, you know, 'cause sometimes in life, you know, they say, like, your perspective can shape how you see an experience. So you don't know.

Mehdi Hasan 1:16:13 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:16:13 Maybe this person is, like, a greeter or somebody who works at an airport, and then maybe they were saying it in a good way. They were like, "Oh my God, there's Mehdi Hasan. I love him," and they were worried for you, and they walk past and they're like, "You should get out of the country, man."

Mehdi Hasan 1:16:22 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:16:22 You know you don't know.

Mehdi Hasan 1:16:23 Unfortunately, I do know-

Trevor Noah 1:16:24 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:16:24 ... 'cause when I said, "Say it to my face," he said, "You hate this country. You're a threat to our country. You should get the fuck out. Fuck you."

Trevor Noah 1:16:29 See, I like that you verified it at least.

Mehdi Hasan 1:16:30 I verify. I fact-check.

Trevor Noah 1:16:31 Okay, this is good.

Mehdi Hasan 1:16:32 I fact-check.

Trevor Noah 1:16:32 No, 'cause people don't do this sometimes in life.

Mehdi Hasan 1:16:34 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:16:34 You know, you have a negative experience-

Mehdi Hasan 1:16:34 No, because I was surprised, because I get a lot of hate online and in the mail, but not to my face, actually.

Trevor Noah 1:16:39 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:16:39 Touch wood. I probably jinxed it now. But, you know, obviously now at events, especially post Charlie Kirk-

Trevor Noah 1:16:43 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:16:44 ... I have to have a lot of security.

Trevor Noah 1:16:45 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:16:45 It looks really bad. I don't like feeling like a diva, but you do, unfortunately, given the level of hate and the number of guns in this country. But no, on a day-to-day basis, I live my life. I watch my Jason Statham movies. I drink my milkshakes. I don't worry about freaks.

Trevor Noah 1:16:56 Here's something I've, I've always wondered. Because we live in a society where people are constantly being fed one idea of, of other people, politics, et cetera, et cetera, um, I often wonder if there's something you would say to people who have a singular idea of you that might surprise them. What, like, what would you, what would you say to people? 'Cause I, I, I don't think there's any world where it's just a plu- plurality, right?

Mehdi Hasan 1:17:20 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:17:20 There's no world where it's just, like, them and us.

Mehdi Hasan 1:17:22 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:17:22 Everyone has a shade of something.

Mehdi Hasan 1:17:24 Yeah. Agreed.

Trevor Noah 1:17:24 It's this gradient that goes from-

Mehdi Hasan 1:17:26 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Trevor Noah 1:17:26 ... one color to another,

Trevor Noah 1:17:27 et cetera, et cetera. There's somebody out there who is only being fed clips of yours that pissed them off.

Mehdi Hasan 1:17:32 Yes, 100%.

Trevor Noah 1:17:32 They know nothing about you as a human being.

Mehdi Hasan 1:17:34 Well, those clips like bullshit, lies.

Trevor Noah 1:17:35 Yeah, yeah. But I'm saying-

Mehdi Hasan 1:17:36 Edits

Trevor Noah 1:17:36 ... no, but I'm saying-

Mehdi Hasan 1:17:36 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:17:36 ... there might even be stuff that you've said-

Mehdi Hasan 1:17:38 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:17:38 ... that people have clipped.

Mehdi Hasan 1:17:39 Mm. Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:17:39 In a way. You know what, you know what?

Mehdi Hasan 1:17:40 I agree.

Trevor Noah 1:17:40 I experienced this for the first time, like in the, in the, in the starkest manner, was when I did the White House Correspondents' Dinner. I did the White House Correspondents' Dinner as Joe Biden. At like any White House Correspondents' Dinner, I roasted Joe Biden. I roasted Democrats. I roasted the, the media.

Mehdi Hasan 1:17:57 I was there. I was there in the crowd.

Trevor Noah 1:17:57 I ro-

Mehdi Hasan 1:17:58 What you mean?

Trevor Noah 1:17:58 ... roasted, um, conservative media. I ro- you, I was like, this is what the event is about.

Mehdi Hasan 1:18:03 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:18:03 Right? What shocked me was the next day, the clips where I spoke about-

Mehdi Hasan 1:18:09 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:18:10 ... anyone on the right went to the left, and the clips where I spoke about anyone on the left went to the right.

Mehdi Hasan 1:18:17 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:18:17 And I was shocked to see how even when we try and create-

Mehdi Hasan 1:18:21 You try

Trevor Noah 1:18:21 ... a reality that is gray-

Mehdi Hasan 1:18:23 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:18:23 ... the algorithm splits the black and whites-

Mehdi Hasan 1:18:25 Yeah. Got you

Trevor Noah 1:18:25 ... and goes, "We'll send this to you."

Mehdi Hasan 1:18:27 Yeah. Echo chamber is too powerful.

Trevor Noah 1:18:27 "We'll send that to you." But, but I'm saying, what would you... So, like, if you met somebody who, let's say somebody walked up to you, and they didn't say, "Get out of my country."

Mehdi Hasan 1:18:32 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:18:32 They said, um, "Mehdi Hasan, I've seen some of the things you say about this country, and I, I just want you to know that I think you, you're really divisive and, and you're not, you know, you're not part of making this country a, a better place. You know, I, I think you hate America." What would you say to them? And, and if you saw they were trying to be sincere.

Mehdi Hasan 1:18:47 Yeah. I would say there's many things I would say to them, um, aside from saying, "Well, I love the country, too." Look, I would say, and I say this because this is my politics, is that I'm, I'm the last person to be divisive. I think AOC has a very good line, which I will steal from her, which is, "I want everyone to have healthcare. I want MAGA to have healthcare." I don't want to deprive my political opponents of everything. I'm a universalist, right? So I'm the last person you could actually call divisive because I want what I have for everyone else. I've been very blessed. I've been very privileged.

Trevor Noah 1:19:15 Mm.

Mehdi Hasan 1:19:16 I'm part of the 1%, or whatever you wanna call it. I want everyone to have access to healthcare. I want everyone to have a, a roof over their heads. I want everyone to have a job that pays well. Um, you know, I started a business. I'm as American, you know, American dream. Immigrant came. I'm a fucking socialist running a business, right? I'm an entrepreneur now. I do stuff like, make sure you subscribe to Zeteo. I feel dirty afterwards, but you gotta do it. Small businessman.

Trevor Noah 1:19:34 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:19:35 Um, so like I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a proud American, right? I'm a proud American dreamer. Um, and my position, my politics are, in fact, the opposite of divisive. They are universalist. They are, I want a higher minimum wage for everyone. I want healthcare for everyone. I want, uh, college to be accessible to everyone. I know it sounds cliché, but that's literally what... It's always makes me fun when we go to, oh, the far left and the far right-

Trevor Noah 1:19:57 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:19:57 ... are the two divisive forces. The far right are Nazis who wanna get rid of Black people from America.

Trevor Noah 1:20:01 Mm.

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:01 The far left want universal healthcare. That is not the same thing, right? Bernie Sanders is not the same thing as Nick Fuentes, and if you think that, your brain is broken by the algorithm.

Trevor Noah 1:20:12 Hmm.

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:14 I like that. I would also say I enjoy a good Jason Statham movie, and I hope the MAGA voter does, too. I feel like MAGA likes Jason Statham.

Trevor Noah 1:20:20 That actually is where you, I'd say that you-

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:22 Let's go watch Beekeeper 2 together.

Trevor Noah 1:20:25 You know, you-

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:26 To be or not to be.

Trevor Noah 1:20:28 Is that what he says?

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:28 That's what he says at the first movie.

Trevor Noah 1:20:29 Oh, man. That's amazing.

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:30 I know his-

Trevor Noah 1:20:30 Of course he says it.

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:31 That's amazing.

Trevor Noah 1:20:31 You think he went through that many, goes, "To be-

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:32 That is amazing

Trevor Noah 1:20:33 ... or not to be?" That is amazing.

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:36 To be.

Trevor Noah 1:20:37 [laughs] Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:38 And then he kills the guy. And then he kills the guy.

Trevor Noah 1:20:40 Uh, Eugene, how are you gonna act like you don't love... Have you not watched Beekeeper? Fire, my man.

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:44 No.

Trevor Noah 1:20:45 Never watched anything by Jason Statham.

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:46 Why?

Trevor Noah 1:20:47 Uh, marathon, my brother, me and you.

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:49 Why?

Trevor Noah 1:20:50 I was gonna get into it, and then one day I saw-

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:51 Still watch Expendables 2.

Trevor Noah 1:20:52 No, I saw, I saw a video of him that he was almost an Olympic diver.

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:56 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:20:57 Then I was like, uh, what?

Mehdi Hasan 1:20:57 That's so random. You've never watched Jason, but you know that bit of trivia that only hardcore fans know.

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:01 He was almost a British Olympic diver, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:21:03 Yeah. For me, people who pivot too much.

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:06 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:21:07 [laughs] What? People who over-pivot.

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:11 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:21:12 You know, if he became a swimming instructor.

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:14 [laughs] Well, his next movie, he's on a boat.

Trevor Noah 1:21:17 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:18 I just watched the trailer last night.

Trevor Noah 1:21:19 If he became a, a swimming instructor, I would've been like, yeah, that's within the realms. He went from diving-

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:26 To becoming a Hollywood actor

Trevor Noah 1:21:28 But he doesn't claim to be an actor, I don't think

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:29 No, of course he doesn't

Trevor Noah 1:21:30 I think he accepts he's not an actor

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:31 Also didn't claim to be a diver

Trevor Noah 1:21:32 Didn't, didn't Jean-Claude Van Damme also go from, wasn't he, like, a dancer, and then-

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:35 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:21:35 ... he went into-

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:37 Yeah, he worked at his dad's gym and-

Trevor Noah 1:21:38 But Jean-Claude Van Damme, I mean, come on. He's no, he's no Jason Statham.

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:41 Whoa.

Trevor Noah 1:21:42 Oh.

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:21:43 Are you kidding me?

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:44 Yo, what?

Trevor Noah 1:21:45 Van Damme.

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:45 JCVD-

Trevor Noah 1:21:46 There you go

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:47 ... versus Jason Statham.

Trevor Noah 1:21:47 Okay, first of all-

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:48 Statham would kick his ass

Trevor Noah 1:21:49 ... my friend, okay.

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:50 [laughs] Never.

Trevor Noah 1:21:50 Let me start, let me start by saying this.

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:51 Go on.

Trevor Noah 1:21:51 You're stupid.

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:52 Okay. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:21:53 Uh, secondly, secondly, Jean-Claude Van Damme.

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:57 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:21:57 My friend, you-

Mehdi Hasan 1:21:58 I grew up watching Jean-Claude Van Damme

Trevor Noah 1:22:00 ... you have the memory of a goldfish

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:01 No, I didn't. I can tell you every film now.

Trevor Noah 1:22:02 Mehdi Hasan.

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:02 Blood Sport.

Trevor Noah 1:22:02 My friend.

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:03 I could watch Blood Sport again every day.

Trevor Noah 1:22:04 There is no world-

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:05 Double Impact

Trevor Noah 1:22:06 ... there is no world-

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:06 Twin brothers in Hong Kong

Trevor Noah 1:22:07 ... where you can make a statement as

Trevor Noah 1:22:09 ... It, would it be a close fight? Yes.

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:11 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:22:11 Would it be a tough fight?

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:11 Time Cop.

Trevor Noah 1:22:12 My friend.

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:13 Let's go.

Trevor Noah 1:22:13 There is no world.

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:14 I got you on. There's no scenario you've watched more JCVD films than I have.

Trevor Noah 1:22:17 Eh, eh, eh, eh, eh.

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:17 I watch them now, like, the B shit that goes straight to, straight to streaming, where he's like an old assassin retired. I watch that shit, too. I watch all of this stuff.

Trevor Noah 1:22:25 What disability did he have? You did-

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:25 My man, in what world-

Trevor Noah 1:22:26 You did the hand

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:27 ... in what world are you gonna br- [laughs] What, what, what, what disability did Jean-Claude Van Damme have?

Trevor Noah 1:22:30 What, what was wrong with him there?

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:31 Like, I don't know. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:22:32 Oh, it was a gun. It was a gun.

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:34 Like, he has a gun now-

Trevor Noah 1:22:35 It was a gun

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:35 ... 'cause he, 'cause he can't do splits and kick anymore 'cause he's fucking old.

Trevor Noah 1:22:37 No, 'cause you said, 'cause you said he's old, and you did this with your hand.

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:39 Yeah, and he did that.

Trevor Noah 1:22:40 And it looked weird.

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:41 Yes, I just did that.

Trevor Noah 1:22:41 It looked weird.

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:41 But I did.

Trevor Noah 1:22:42 But he's Jason Sta-

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:42 Couple tunnel syndrome

Trevor Noah 1:22:43 ... Jason Statham would kick his ass.

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:45 In what world? No way. Are you kidding me?

Trevor Noah 1:22:47 Are you serious?

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:47 You think this Belgian dancer is gonna take out-

Trevor Noah 1:22:50 Ah, ah, ah, ah

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:50 ... the beekeeper fucking Transporter?

Trevor Noah 1:22:52 You think this British diver, you think this British diver-

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:55 He's the Transporter

Trevor Noah 1:22:55 ... is gonna beat Kickboxer?

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:57 With cheesy lines like-

Trevor Noah 1:22:58 What are you talking about?

Mehdi Hasan 1:22:59 Yo, what are you talking about?

Trevor Noah 1:23:01 Or not to be.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:01 This guy's not serious, bruh.

Trevor Noah 1:23:03 You're insane.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:03 Uh.

Trevor Noah 1:23:03 Do you know Tong Po? Ah, my man, you playing games, you.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:06 Have you seen Universal Soldier?

Trevor Noah 1:23:07 My f- my man, I've watched all of them.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:08 I think Dolph-

Trevor Noah 1:23:08 These are the only movies we had in South Africa

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:10 ... I think Dolph, I think Dolph Lundgren would've kicked Jean-Claude Van Damme's ass.

Trevor Noah 1:23:12 Where have you been?

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:12 Yeah, but that's a tough one. But that's a tough one.

Trevor Noah 1:23:14 Yeah, but that's-

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:14 That, that's why I brought it up

Trevor Noah 1:23:14 ... I'll give you Lundgren.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:15 Yeah, but I'm saying that was, that's a-

Trevor Noah 1:23:16 But I won't give you Van Damme.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:17 My man.

Trevor Noah 1:23:18 I, I- Statham

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:19 ... just Statham. St- Statham.

Trevor Noah 1:23:19 You've seen where you put your foot like this?

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:21 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:23:21 Over your head.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:21 Over your head, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:23:22 Relax.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:23 But he doesn't hit people with it. Statham actually just breaks some bones.

Trevor Noah 1:23:26 This guy. You know what now, Mehdi.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:28 Over pivoters.

Trevor Noah 1:23:29 No, you are-

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:29 I think Statham is br- I, I think you're crazy.

Trevor Noah 1:23:32 I hope you get deported.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:33 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:23:34 This guy just said the craziest thing of all time.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:36 I, I, I'm just gonna say this, because one day I dream to meet Jason Statham. You're gonna clip all the other clips.

Trevor Noah 1:23:40 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:40 Me, I'm clipping this, and I'm tagging Jason on Instagram.

Trevor Noah 1:23:45 This guy.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:45 I'm gonna say, "I defend him."

Trevor Noah 1:23:47 Jean-Claude Van Damme.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:47 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:23:48 Sio.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:48 To end this debate.

Trevor Noah 1:23:48 The muscles from Brussels.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:50 To end this debate.

Trevor Noah 1:23:50 He's from Brussels, for God's sake.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:52 Mehdi will say-

Trevor Noah 1:23:52 You're bringing in real things, which is not fair.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:54 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:23:54 'Cause I'm not bringing in a single real thing about Jason Statham.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:56 Yeah. I am?

Trevor Noah 1:23:57 Not a single thing.

Mehdi Hasan 1:23:58 Oh, is that okay? On camera.

Trevor Noah 1:23:59 I'm not bringing in a single-

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:00 Okay, character then. Fine, on character.

Trevor Noah 1:24:02 Of, I'm not, you, you hitting below the belt.

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:04 No, no, I'm saying let's take their characters.

Trevor Noah 1:24:05 Yes.

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:06 You're gonna take this, like, wussy Time Cop, Double Impact, Hong Kong dude.

Trevor Noah 1:24:10 Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:10 And you're gonna put him up against ex-SAS Jason Statham-

Trevor Noah 1:24:14 Who?

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:14 ... who doesn't take shit from anyone.

Trevor Noah 1:24:15 Yo.

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:16 Transporter 2.

Trevor Noah 1:24:18 Blowing up things, shooting peop- I'm talking straight hand-to-hand.

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:22 No, hand-to-hand. I'm talking hand-to-hand.

Trevor Noah 1:24:23 Cram, Cram. My man.

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:24 Have you seen, have you seen The Beekeeper?

Trevor Noah 1:24:25 Jean-Claude, Jean-Claude Van Damme-

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:26 Cram the guy is Israeli martial art.

Trevor Noah 1:24:27 Jean-Claude Van Damme-

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:27 We're just gonna-

Trevor Noah 1:24:28 You'll be here

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:29 ... close combat.

Trevor Noah 1:24:30 You'll be here.

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:31 You'll be here.

Trevor Noah 1:24:31 Jean-Claude Van Damme, you'll be here.

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:33 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:24:33 While you're here, you'll feel something here.

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:35 What are you talking about?

Trevor Noah 1:24:35 And he kicked you.

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:36 You think Statham doesn't kick?

Trevor Noah 1:24:37 He, he'll kick you like, ah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:38 Have you never seen a ... So you lied earlier-

Trevor Noah 1:24:39 Show me Jason Statham highest kick

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:41 ... when you said you watched The Beekeeper.

Trevor Noah 1:24:41 Show me Jason Statham highest kick, and show me Jean-Claude Van Damme's highest kick.

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:44 But Jean-Claude Van Damme's short, so you don't need to do a high kick. He's a short guy.

Trevor Noah 1:24:48 Yo, okay. You know what? We-

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:49 I just defeated your argument then

Trevor Noah 1:24:51 ... if there's a, if there's a world where we could make this happen.

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:54 I feel like there's a Jubilee here.

Trevor Noah 1:24:55 I'm gonna-

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:56 20 people-

Trevor Noah 1:24:56 I'm going to try

Mehdi Hasan 1:24:57 ... against me.

Trevor Noah 1:24:57 I'm gonna try, and we're gonna raise funds and make this movie.

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:01 See why I told you to bring the Racoon Class.

Trevor Noah 1:25:02 Forget it. Raise funds. Let's just clip this, tag Statham, and see what he thinks. I want to see you both with Statham in the chair. Why haven't you watched Statham?

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:08 Say what? We, I didn't say ... You're the one who brought this thing up out of-

Trevor Noah 1:25:11 Yeah, you, you are. Yeah, actually-

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:11 You're the one who made it antagonistic. I was happy with both of these heroes. I love the Transporter.

Trevor Noah 1:25:15 Yeah, I see that.

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:15 And I said Statham would kick JCVD.

Trevor Noah 1:25:16 You see? You see?

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:17 Oh.

Trevor Noah 1:25:18 You made it into ... I'm, I'm-

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:19 Obviously. Have you just met me? I make everything into a debate or an argument.

Trevor Noah 1:25:22 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:23 Even real fights.

Trevor Noah 1:25:24 Beekeeper. Fine, fine.

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:25 Somebody has to win and lose in everything that I approach.

Trevor Noah 1:25:27 What do you think you loved about action movies? What is, what is, like, what, what got you? Like, why action movies is what I'm saying.

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:33 I th- escap- escapism.

Trevor Noah 1:25:33 'Cause you, 'cause you could've ... Yeah, but you could have loved romantic comedies. You could have loved, like-

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:37 I do love romantic comedies, too. I just don't, I just don't watch them now.

Trevor Noah 1:25:39 Yep. Oh, okay. Oh, so you went through a period.

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:41 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:25:42 But the action has stayed with you your whole life, clearly.

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:43 Action my whole life, since I was a kid.

Trevor Noah 1:25:45 Who did you want to be when you were a kid?

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:46 He-Man's on. He-Man's on. I grew up watching He-Man.

Trevor Noah 1:25:47 He-Man, do you think is gonna be good or not?

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:48 No.

Trevor Noah 1:25:49 I'm worried about too many sequels.

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:50 No, I'm not too ... You can tell-

Trevor Noah 1:25:50 I think at some point-

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:51 ... toy, toy films. No, no, but I, I, I-

Trevor Noah 1:25:53 No, but when toy-

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:54 But look, act- action is what I grew up watching

Trevor Noah 1:25:54 ... I mean, they killed it with Barbie because of Barbie fans. Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:25:56 ... and I don't know why I like it so much. Maybe 'cause I was the kid in the playground who got bullied, and I'm not good at fighting. Maybe I saw that as a kind of escape, and I saw myself in JCVD.

Trevor Noah 1:26:05 Did you, when you were getting bullied, did, what, what-

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:07 Oh, the JCVD wasn't my guy growing up.

Trevor Noah 1:26:09 Yeah, but what did you-

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:09 It was Bruce Willis.

Trevor Noah 1:26:10 Bruce Willis was your guy.

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:10 Die Hard, Die Hard. Die Hard was the one.

Trevor Noah 1:26:12 Well, that's an interesting one. For a kid, that's a ... I don't know why I think that-

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:14 How old was I, Die Hard? I was quite old, 13, 12. When was Die Hard, '89, '90 I want to say, '88?

Trevor Noah 1:26:19 I, I, when we got them was different to when they came out.

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:20 [laughs] That's so true.

Trevor Noah 1:26:21 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:21 That's so true. I remember the first time I talked-

Trevor Noah 1:26:23 Had to go to cinema

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:23 ... I remember the first time I talked to an American about something that was current in my world in South Africa, and they were like, "That was, that was from 10 years ago."

Trevor Noah 1:26:30 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:30 And we were like, "Ah, that just came out for us, bruh."

Trevor Noah 1:26:32 That just came out for us. [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:33 That literally just came out for us. So I-

Trevor Noah 1:26:35 No, but I loved Arnie, obviously. I loved all those guys.

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:37 Yeah, well-

Trevor Noah 1:26:37 They all turned out to be Republicans. Now I see everything politically, so I'm like, "Fuck it."

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:40 No, man. Don't, don't do that to yourself.

Trevor Noah 1:26:41 I'm like, "Fuck, Sly Stallone, Republican. Arnie, Republican."

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:42 No, don't do ... Let me, let me tell you something.

Trevor Noah 1:26:44 Although Arnie's a good Republican.

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:45 But let me tell you something. Mehdi.

Trevor Noah 1:26:46 Uh, Mark Wahlberg. Oh.

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:46 Mehdi, Mehdi.

Trevor Noah 1:26:47 Interesting.

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:47 Let me, let me tell, let me tell you something.

Trevor Noah 1:26:49 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:50 If there's one thing I can, I can hope to leave you with when you leave this podcast is-

Trevor Noah 1:26:54 Okay

Mehdi Hasan 1:26:55 ... do not do that

Trevor Noah 1:27:24 I remind myself of this, is I go, I have to live in a world where I'm willing to accept certain people have done beautiful things for me in terms of their art-

Mehdi Hasan 1:27:32 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:27:32 ... in terms of their music, in terms of their movies, whatever it might be. Then I find out that on a personal level they have different political views to me.

Mehdi Hasan 1:27:39 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:27:39 That you will, that will take nothing away from what you gave me-

Mehdi Hasan 1:27:42 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:27:42 ... for my whole life, my whole childhood, my whole every- 'cause I'm like, yo man, okay, fine, you have, you-

Mehdi Hasan 1:27:46 No, I agree with that. You identified them on screen.

Trevor Noah 1:27:48 Yeah, but I'm saying don't let the, don't rob yourself of, don't rob little Mehdi of that.

Mehdi Hasan 1:27:51 Yeah, I try and, I try and not, no, I try not to find, especially now with the genocide, right? For me, the biggest moral issue of our time is the genocide.

Trevor Noah 1:27:56 Yes. Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:27:57 For me, I see celebrities, actors through that prism, and that's a real problem for me. I recently discovered that Helen Mirren is, like, a hardcore supporter. I love Helen Mirren, and it's like, ugh, and it's painful for me. Doesn't mean I'm not gonna watch the next season of Mob Land. Yes, I'm gonna watch the next season of Mob Land.

Trevor Noah 1:28:09 Okay, okay, okay. Yes, yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:28:09 Fucking amazing even though apparently Tom Hardy got kicked off because of Helen Mirren.

Trevor Noah 1:28:11 Yeah. No, but they, no, but they negotiated and they, they say, I think they saw the backlash and they've now said they're working on it.

Mehdi Hasan 1:28:15 I love Tom Hardy as well. Um, but the, so that, I agree with that.

Trevor Noah 1:28:19 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:28:19 Um, but it's hard. I, I won't say it's not hard.

Trevor Noah 1:28:22 I, I don't dispute that.

Mehdi Hasan 1:28:23 And by the way, I would do the reverse too. So someone like Kiefer Sutherland, who's a super lefty in real life, his grand- his grandfather was the first socialist prime minister of some province in Canada.

Trevor Noah 1:28:31 Oh, wow.

Mehdi Hasan 1:28:31 He was in a show, 24-

Trevor Noah 1:28:32 Yes

Mehdi Hasan 1:28:33 ... which I loved. Super Islamophobic show.

Trevor Noah 1:28:35 Yeah.

Mehdi Hasan 1:28:35 There's no debate about that. Like, it was a super Islamophobic show.

Trevor Noah 1:28:38 That was like, that was like peak anti, uh, Muslim propaganda.

Mehdi Hasan 1:28:41 Yeah, war on terror.

Trevor Noah 1:28:42 Yeah, post 9/11.

Mehdi Hasan 1:28:42 War on terror.

Trevor Noah 1:28:42 Every show was war on terror.

Mehdi Hasan 1:28:43 And seasons two, three, four became yeah, all the Muslim terrorists, um, even, like, Kal Penn turns out to be, like, a sleeper terrorist in that show.

Trevor Noah 1:28:48 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:28:49 Loads of comedians in that show turn out to be, uh, turns out, turn out... So many people, I watch it now and I'm like, shit, Nick Offerman is, like, a far right white supremacist-

Trevor Noah 1:28:57 Oh, I didn't know that

Mehdi Hasan 1:28:57 ... in, like, season two. He's, like, beating up an Arab guy. I'm like, that's Nick Offerman. I text Nick, I'm like, "Nick, you're in 24." He's like, "Yeah, it was early role."

Trevor Noah 1:29:03 [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:29:03 Yeah, you reckon. Like, there's so many, um, uh-

Trevor Noah 1:29:05 James-

Mehdi Hasan 1:29:05 Maz Jobrani is, like, a terrorist who doesn't go-

Trevor Noah 1:29:07 Oh, I didn't know that

Mehdi Hasan 1:29:08 ... Maz Jobrani's, like, a terrorist who doesn't go through. I've re-watched it recently with my daughter. So I was like, okay, Islamophobic. But, like, that show, I loved it, but I had to really torture... Like, a lot of Muslims are like, "We should boycott this show." And I was like, "I want to, but I love it so much, but it goes against everything I believe in." And I met Kiefer Sutherland once, and I got to ask him about it, and he kind of tried to put my mind at ease about, like, the on-screen Islamophobia. But that, that's, that's the reverse. That's, that's where on-screen it's really bad, but you're still watching it as, like, a guilty pleasure even though you know politically it goes against everything you stand for.

Trevor Noah 1:29:35 So but, but going back to you as the kid, who, who do you think you were... Actually, what, what... 'Cause, like, when I was getting bullied in school, uh, my two defenses were my speed, I could outrun most kids-

Mehdi Hasan 1:29:47 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:29:47 ... and then was my humor. So I was like, okay, if the bullies

Trevor Noah 1:29:50 do catch me-

Mehdi Hasan 1:29:51 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:29:51 ... then I'm going humor. What was your, what was your-

Mehdi Hasan 1:29:53 Mine was similar. No, humor, more mockery. So as I was getting beaten up, I would make fun of them more in front of the people.

Trevor Noah 1:29:59 For real, for real?

Mehdi Hasan 1:29:59 Yeah, 'cause my mouth never shuts. I run my mouth. So that was the main thing, right? They're gonna try and-

Trevor Noah 1:30:03 So this is, this is-

Mehdi Hasan 1:30:04 If they're gonna try and beat me up, one thing they're not gonna do is silence me, and that's been how I've been all my life. So, you know, whether it's Republican members of Congress saying, "Deport Mehdi Hasan back to the UK"-

Trevor Noah 1:30:12 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:30:13 ... or the kid in school bullying me, calling me the P word, that was the same, that was the same. So it was always a matter of, you're not gonna shut my mouth. You can physic- you know, you know that old, "Sticks and stones will h-" you know the crap-

Trevor Noah 1:30:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:30:24 ... they used to tell you? "Sticks and stones will hurt your bones, but words will not affect you." No, bullshit. I knew it from a very early age, words will affect you. I've made words my career, and that was the only defense I had.

Trevor Noah 1:30:32 That explains a lot, though. It's like you kept, you kept that thing of you're not gonna shut me up.

Mehdi Hasan 1:30:37 No.

Trevor Noah 1:30:37 You might scare me, you might beat me up, you might threaten me, what- whatever it is, but I'm still going to say-

Mehdi Hasan 1:30:43 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:30:43 ... what do you think that gives you? And what, what I mean is, like, what does it preserve of, you know?

Mehdi Hasan 1:30:50 I mean, I would hope it preserves my integrity because ultimately if you're in our business, at many points in your career you're asked to sacrifice integrity, your principle. You're asked to shut up about an issue. You're asked not to say... You know, as Noam Chomsky has often said, the worst kind of censorship is censorship by omission, right? It's what you don't say, not what you do say, is, that's the worst kind of propaganda-

Trevor Noah 1:31:10 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:31:11 ... and, and brainwashing and gaslighting. And I think over the years that's been the thing that I've tried to avoid in all my public life, my private life, um, as a, as someone on the left, as someone who's a Muslim, et cetera, et cetera, is just saying, "You know what? I'm just gonna say what I have to say." And obviously, to go back to your earlier question, this is why I love doing Zeteo right now. As much as I loved MSNBC, I had a great time at MSNBC, had a great time in all the other places I worked. All my experiences have been great. I don't regret any of my journalistic career, but the moment I'm in now-

Trevor Noah 1:31:36 Mm.

Mehdi Hasan 1:31:36 That freedom, really-

Trevor Noah 1:31:38 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:31:38 ... to be able to really just go for it without having to worry about any consequences, or, I mean, obviously there's some consequences, but in general-

Trevor Noah 1:31:45 Yeah

Mehdi Hasan 1:31:45 ... I think that is hugely liberating, and I say liberating in a very literal sense.

Trevor Noah 1:31:50 Well, I'm, I'm glad that you get to be this person. Thanks for joining us, man.

Mehdi Hasan 1:31:53 Thank you.

Trevor Noah 1:31:53 This was-

Mehdi Hasan 1:31:54 Thank you for having me

Trevor Noah 1:31:54 ... a true joy.

Mehdi Hasan 1:31:55 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:31:55 I'm glad we got to see you, and good luck for the train ride back.

Mehdi Hasan 1:31:58 Fucking hell.

Trevor Noah 1:31:58 If someone approaches you, 'cause you never know, this guy started-

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:01 Same kid would be on the same train

Trevor Noah 1:32:02 ... he gets beef, he gets beef started, you never know.

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:04 Oh, yeah. True.

Trevor Noah 1:32:05 So on the way back-

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:05 On the way back I find myself sitting next to Jean-Claude Van Damme.

Trevor Noah 1:32:09 [laughs] Hey, the muscles from Brussels. The muscles from-

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:11 In fact, he was from Brussels

Trevor Noah 1:32:12 ... have you, have you, uh, Van Da- have you watched The Beekeeper? Let me tell you who would kick your ass. [laughs]

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:17 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:32:17 Hopefully you bump into Pedro Pascal.

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:19 Oh, that'd be good.

Trevor Noah 1:32:20 This is the way.

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:20 Not wearing his mask.

Trevor Noah 1:32:22 He didn't reply.

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:22 Boom, boom, bo-bo-boom, bo-bo-boom.

Trevor Noah 1:32:23 I said this is the way.

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:25 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:32:25 Is it?

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:26 Yeah, of course it's the way.

Trevor Noah 1:32:27 Boom, boom, bo-bo-boom, bo-bo-boom, bo-bo-boom.

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:29 That's good music.

Trevor Noah 1:32:29 They didn't have enough of that in the movie.

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:30 They did it.

Trevor Noah 1:32:31 No. They did, but not enough of it.

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:32 Boom, boom, bo-bo-boom.

Trevor Noah 1:32:32 Oh. I wanted more of it.

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:33 Yeah, that is the best part of it.

Trevor Noah 1:32:34 That is the best part.

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:35 Well, Mehdi, if and someone bumps into you on the subway-

Trevor Noah 1:32:36 Does Boba Fet- will Boba Fett make a, an appearance? No. Don't spoil anything. Don't. We're gonna go watch it ourselves. That's what we gotta do. Mehdi, man, for real, this was great.

Mehdi Hasan 1:32:44 Thanks, guys. I appreciate it.

Trevor Noah 1:32:45 Thank you, brother. [upbeat music] Thank you so much for watching the episode. If you enjoyed it, pass it on to a friend. If you didn't enjoy it, pass it on to your friend still. Let them suffer for a change. And don't forget to engage with us in the comments. Uh, if you wanna, uh, suggest a guest, maybe there's questions you want, maybe there's ideas that you have, you can chat to us. We will read through the comments and we'll get into it. Either way, I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for hanging out with us on What Now? And remember, we do this for you, so we would like to hear from you. Till next time. Thank you.