Roy Wood Jr.: Gets Real About Fear, Fame, & Fatherhood

Please put your hands together for the very funny Roy Wood Jr. [upbeat music]

[cheering]

Hey, what's up? I'm the Black one. Let's start.

[laughing]

The year that I was suspended from school, that's when I started doing stand-up. I was at a low, and I found something that was

an outlet.

Now, 25 years into his career, Wood is in his prime. He's a father to six-year-old Henry.

My next guest is a comedian, an actor, a Daily Show correspondent.

Senior campaign correspondent Roy Wood Jr., everybody. Roy Wood Jr., y'all.

[cheering]

Well-known for his Daily Show appearances, he will be hosting this year's White House Correspondents' Dinner.

CNN is set to premiere a new comedy quiz show called Have I Got News For You. It's gonna be hosted by Emmy Award nominee Roy Wood

Jr.

I think my father would be proud, but I think he'd be even prouder if I go up there and make sure that I'm talking about something real. 'Cause when you have the microphone, you better have something to say. You may not get it again. [upbeat music]

This is What Now? With Trevor Noah. [upbeat music] All right, well, let's do this, Roy.

Talk about what-

You ready to start your grind?

[laughs] Stop. See, you're like the women-

I heard you

... you're like the women in my life. Even after I tell you what the truth is, you're just gonna stay on the fucking truth that you've conjured.

Wow, we jump straight into it.

[laughs]

Welcome to the podcast.

Oh, wait, we're rolling? [laughs]

[laughs]

Fuck. Now I'm gonna get texts from the women in my life.

[laughs] Is that what you think?

Oh,

man. No.

What up, Roy? How you been, man?

I'm good, man. It's been a minute.

It's been too long. You know-

We, we text, but we don't get to this, like-

You know, you know what I, you know what I was thinking the other day is one of the things no one tells you about the relationships you'll form working in, like, an office, is that you get so used to people being in your life. You take for granted that they'll always just be there.

Mm.

Every morning-

Yeah

... I woke up, and within a few hours of waking up-

See you

... I would see Roy Wood Jr. We would have conversations. We'd talk about Donald Trump. We'd talk about the news.

Mm.

We'd talk about life, but you just, you just assume that those people are gonna be your village.

Yes.

And then you leave the village of work-

Mm-hmm

... and then the people are just gone.

Now, you know what's funny? I still see David Kabuka in my neighborhood.

Yeah, but David's that guy.

He just walks.

David is the most, he's the most employed homeless person I know.

[laughs]

[laughs]

I'll see, like, Daily Show employees just out and about now, and in a weird way, it's, "Oh, should I speak? That's my fr- Do you remember? Yeah, I should speak. Yeah, we have a friendship that's deeper than the building where we work."

Mm.

So-

But it's weird, though, right?

Yeah.

It is weird.

I didn't see him.

Mm.

And he was-

Like, "Hey, boss."

No, and he went, like... He's like, "Hey, Trevor," as he walked by. You know how he is.

Yeah.

He's like, "Hey, Trevor." And my brain, I was busy doing something. I was on a call, I think, even, and I carried on. The- then, like, four steps later, I was like, "I know that voice." Then I turned, and he just carried on walking.

Yeah.

And then I was like, "Yo, Matt." And, and he was like, "Hey." I said, "Why, why did you keep walking?" He's like, "Oh, I don't know. I figured maybe you're done with us." [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

It's a lot of folks who treat folks like that, though, but-

After the job is done?

Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's an American thing, to be honest with you.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's an American thing.

It's transactional because work... This is the job, and then at some point in your 20s, you just realize it's a revolving door of co-stars when it comes to professional relationships. So, you don't know if you have a personal relationship until you leave work, and then it's truly, like, stri- Like, you know who, um-

Mm

... who oddly I'm probably the clo- who I see the most.

Yeah.

I wouldn't say the closest, but who I see the most is Desi's husband.

Desi's husband.

Desi's husband, Ganon. Me and him, we in a group chat with two other dudes from the show. When I tell you that's my dog.

Mm-hmm.

How?

I d- I don't know, but I know part of it is also our boys are the same age, so we'd, we swap-

Okay

shit.

He, looking kidnapped.

Yeah. And call, hang all the time.

Mm. Yeah, I-

I'd say Hasan a close second. I, I see... I've seen Hasan a lot-

Yeah

... since I left the show, but you know, I don't, I don't know. It's just, it's weird. It's weird when you leave and just, you check in, and I feel like you know I love you. You know if you need me, call me, but, like, I'm not gonna, like, show up to any of the functions.

You know the way, you know, the way you described it right now?

[laughs]

You sort of, you made it sound like prison, and being out and being in.

[laughs]

I know you didn't intend it that way, but your tone and your vibe-

Is that an American thing?

No, your tone and your vibe made it feel like-

[laughs]

... when we're in prisons, like, I mean, we all, I mean, you know me.

The yard.

I'm around, and I mean-

It's the military. It's, it's the same. We served. I served. You served.

Yeah.

And then you, you, you're, you're retired Your Daily Show retired, and the people who are still enlisted, "Hey, how's it going? Good to see you." And I'll check in on you when you need me to, but like-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... the default of-

Mm

... seeing you every day-

Mm

... that was pre-con- I guess what I'm saying is that you have to, at some point, you have to try at friendship.

Mm.

And maybe I'm just not a good trier.

No, I don't-

moments happened because we were working together.

He- okay, here's what I think it is. I think because Americans have to be so nice at work-

Have to be

... have to be. I've, I've worked in few places where people have to be as nice and fake as they are in America. But-

Right, you get a HR complaint. Also, I need something from you sooner or later.

Yeah. Whereas I find, in South Africa, and the little work I've done in, like, the UK, and th- maybe, like, even offices I've seen in Australia and stuff, I think people are a lot more genuine, so they don't have to be nice.

Ah.

You can just work together.

Yes.

You know what I mean?

You don't have to be friends.

"Hey, Barry, I need those reports. Thank you." It's just keep it moving. Do you know what I mean? Y- you're not, you don't have to be friends, and you don't have to be nice. You just have to get the job done.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But then in America, there's a fine line between not being nice and not being perceived as professional. And so then you foster these sort of fake relationships with a lot of people-

Mm

... 'cause it's based on niceness.

Mm-hmm.

And then when you're out, the people are like, "Oh, okay. I mean, that's, that's done."

Mm.

Whereas in, whereas in South Africa, I find people aren't nice to everyone

they work with. I'm not saying disrespectful or anything.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Do y'all have, like, cultural rules and faux pas at company parties? Like, in an American party, like, I was taught if you go-

No

... to dinner with your bosses, you don't... You wait for the boss to order alcohol.

No.

If the boss orders alcohol-

Maybe

... then you can drink. Don't drink more than the boss. If you're at a company party, Christmas party, don't get too tipsy.

Mm-hmm.

Don't get too wild. Don't get too touchy feely. You're still at work even though it's a party.

Mm, even if it's a company... Oh, yeah.

No, with us-

What happens if your boss doesn't drink?

... when there's alcohol, there's alcohol.

So you don't wait to see if the boss is gonna have a sip?

No, I've never seen that. No.

Crazy talk.

It's a party. No.

Crazy talk.

[laughs]

You wanna move?

No, 'cause you're gonna-

[laughs]

You're gonna use that against me when we get back to work.

No, you see, no, that's another thing. No. It happened at the party.

No. Absolutely not.

No, Roy, what happens at the party stays at the party.

No, no.

long time.

[laughs] You've had many jobs.

With this list of activity.

That should've been the book you wrote, The Man of Many Jobs.

[laughs]

[laughs]

You write about many fathers. I was like, "This man has had every s-" But you know what's funny? Just listening to you say this now makes me realize, like, you, you have a specific type of paranoia that has served you well in the world, but it's also part of what I think I love about you as a human being.

Yeah.

You, you're not paranoid in the classic sense, like people being like, "They're watching us" and... No, but what you just said, I time myself when I'm talking to a woman.

A single woman.

A single woman at a-

Mm

... at a company function. That's-

Where somebody else could get to whispering, yeah.

Yeah. Every day at The Daily Show, when I'd walk in in the mornings, we'd do our f- we'd do our morning meeting, everyone would hang out, and then, um, Roy would go to his office. And I remember I'd go in, I'd walk past Roy's office, and I would sometimes just, like, walk in and see what he was doing. I've never felt like somebody is hiding another life more than Roy. You know when you look at a person's computer screen?

[laughs]

It's work.

No. Ro-

Yeah

... one day it was coding.

Yeah.

Like, literally, he had, like, a document up on, like, how to code, coding for beginners, uh, code. Like-

[laughs]

I was like, "This man's coding." Then a few weeks later, I come back, he's doing deep research on, like, K-pop and-

Yeah

... y- like, Korean music in general and K dramas and... I come back a few weeks later.

Yeah, yeah.

Roy's, like,

doing... And I'd be like, "Who is this man?"

Video editing.

Yeah. And I was like, "Who is this man-

Mm

... and what is he doing in his life?"

Yeah. Graphics. Oh, you're talking about the day when I was doing the graphics. I was trying to build a graphics package. I was learning, um, Adobe-

Yeah

... um, After Effects.

Mm.

And just watching videos and just how to... I wanna know how to do this stuff, 'cause I also wanna know when I'm getting screwed, and that's also part of paranoia.

You see, that's the paranoia.

[laughs]

But it-

This is the paranoia.

The paranoia drives you to work even harder. [laughs]

I need to, I need to-

Before I pay you, I must know exactly what I'm paying you for.

Yes, I need-

Coding

... I need to learn it. I need to learn some degree of it, because then when you tell me that it's gonna take two days turn to isolate a, an image and turn it into a PNG and put a couple graphics behind it, I know that's a three-hour job, bro.

'Cause you've done it.

I've done it. I know enough about... I'm not perfect. I'm not... I didn't go to school for it.

Mm.

But I know enough of it, so you're not gonna fuck me. I'm not gonna allow that. And so I also have worked too hard. So yeah, there's certain parameter. The interns, Daily Show interns, right? So me and Ronny Chieng had a office in the furthest part of the building, and it was also the desk where some of the interns would be set or whatever. We'll come in, talk, whatever, but you're standing in that goddamn doorway. Don't you come in this office. Stay out. All the advice in the world you want, anything you wanna chat about-

[laughs]

... but you stand up, and you stand in that goddamn door. You're not coming

in this office, and it needs to be two of you.

You've been a dad for a long time, Roy.

Yes.

Before you-

This guy was born a dad

... way before you had kids, you had... [laughs] You fix your pants.

Yes.

Comb your hair. [laughs]

And it's not, like, some sort of- Like, I know I'm sounding like Mike Pence right now, where it's on some, "I can't be in the room with a woman."

[laughs]

But the idea of maintaining some degree of professionalism in a corporate space-

Mm

... has just always been just paramount to me. So I'm always thinking about, about those interactions that I have with people and stuff like that. Like, even when we would be on location and doing Daily Show shoots, and you've got the PA, and it's the end of the day and you're wrapping up, we're not riding in an Uber together.

Mm.

I will get you an Uber.

Yeah.

Absolutely-

Yeah

... we'll get you an Uber, but we're not riding in an Uber together.

Wait, so before The Daily Show, had you ever been in a corporate environment as a, as an employee of someone?

Sorta. I did morning radio for 12 years, but I was on the talent side. And so morning radio, you know, there's... Talent side is totally different from the sales side.

Mm-hmm.

Sales is the proper button-down.

Mm-hmm.

But there's certain protocols within the building. And, like, that's the only job I ever had where we had harassment training and-

Oh, there's harassment training?

And FC- It's America, bro. Yeah.

That's how Noy- Ro- Roy knows how to harass. Have you seen him harass?

[laughs]

One of the best harassers you've ever come across. This man will harass you. Roy-

I know the loopholes, baby

... Roy Harassment Jordan, man.

[laughs]

This boy's a... Roy Wood. [laughs]

Love it. Yeah. Every... [laughs]

It would be so funny if like... 'Cause we always have to see these things.

Oh, man.

"Have you been for your harassment training?" He was like, "I sure have. Smack, smack my ass. Let me see my score."

Yeah, it's kinda like a S&M thing, baby.

"Ah, yeah. You got your training. Yeah, you do it real good, boy." [laughs]

Yeah.

Wait, wait, wait.

Radio-

Before... H- Wait. H- How long... 'Cause a certain friend of mine, who I won't mention, was telling me that they wanna attend a course to learn how to fall. Apparently, there's people who teach people how to fall.

Okay. Clown school and all that. The tumbling.

it.

[laughs]

I'm not saying... Anything you're saying is wrong.

Okay. Stunt school. He's a stunt person who-

Fine

... mastered the stu-

Yeah, so we, that's how we start. We said, we said, "Look, [laughs] are you go- Wait, are you going to go to stunt school?" He said, "No, no, no." Then we said, "Okay. Is it jujitsu?" He said, "No. Sort of jujitsu, taekwondo, but they can teach you how... But actually, there's people who teach you how to fall."

The Brazilian Grapple Martial Arts.

I just wanna learn how to... Look, it's, you need to know how to fall.

Do you know this guy, too?

You just need to know how to-

The one we were talking about, the one who's going to falling school.

Well, I guess with the wrist brace-

[laughs]

... you do need to learn how to fall. Your shit's fucked up, man.

[laughs]

How long was your harassment training?

[laughs] And see, right there, I'd get a report.

[laughs]

Like, a month from now, you made someone feel uncomfortable.

Feel uncomfortable. [laughs]

When you-

Oh

... slow rolled him.

Yeah, that's what it is.

But that was a classic case of-

Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

When I did radio, we had harassment training. You gotta remember, I did radio, I came in 2001.

Mm.

Two years later was the Janet Jackson Super Bowl boob bust.

out.

Yeah, you said boob out.

'Cause I didn't do the course.

Yeah.

Yeah, you didn't do, you didn't take the class.

You've never had a job.

[laughs]

He, he's been in training.

And so we took all of these classes on how to talk about the boob. And then-

No way

... well, FCC laws changed after the Janet Jackson thing, so we had to learn formal new ways to talk on the radio.

Mm-hmm.

And then on top of that, they added, like, harassment training and, like, proper workplace whatever, whatever. And I mean, we're talking, like, a decade before Me Too, so that was just constantly drilled in.

Mm.

And as a jock, I'm on the side of the building where, you know, everybody's, like, having sex with each other. There's drugs. Like, it's chaos. But also, it happened outside the building.

Mm.

So you could still do... In the building, you could be completely appropriate, but outside the building is where-

That's where they let loose

... everybody, everybody let loose. I mean, you know, you're talking the radio days of payola and people having sex with listeners, and you bring in rappers into the studio at 2:00 in the morning. Like, I used to be at the radio station at 3:00 in the morning doing prep for the morning show.

Yeah.

And then we would just walk over to the control room. It was all automated. We would just go on the air.

No, Roy.

Just do live radio at 3:00 in the morning. Fuck it. You, uh, my boss sleep. And if he up, it's 'cause he cheating.

[laughs]

[laughs]

'Cause he's fucking listeners. So I know you not gonna call.

Oh, man.

[laughs]

I know you're not gonna check me right now, not when

you supposed to be in bed, married person.

[laughs] So what, what, what would the 3:00 AM radio show be about?

Oh, we would just take calls. We'd start playing music, and we would, we would have people... I gotta give a shout-out to my man Young Dill, 'cause Young Dill was the one that was... He was supposed to work till midnight, and he would stay. And then we would just take calls from people leaving the club-

Yeah

... or people headed to a booty call. And just, you know-

That was it.

That was it. And-

Yeah, that's that 3:00 AM. I did, I did 3:00 to 6:00.

Yeah.

And it was the same thing.

How was the club?

Yeah.

What, you know, how was the whatever. Just what happened in the club tonight, or tell me about the person you about to go fuck. And that was it. Or you'd be coming back from a booty call. How was the booty call?

And then there was the occasional person who was working the early shift.

Yeah, there's always some-

Going

... truck.

Yeah. Yeah, there's always-

Some beverage-

There's something

... delivery-

Yeah

... food person.

Seafood.

Yeah. One serious person-

Drop off-

... five drunk

... newspaper. Yeah.

Hmm?

That was, like, the ratio.

they out in the street-

Mm, 'cause they're out there selling

... they selling an ad, they selling in person. You need a man to sell to men, and then you need women to kinda sell and be on the sensitive side, and that's how you get a couple extra ad buys from people and stuff like that. So that side of the building was the sexy side, so they needed a video-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... to watch, to go, "Hey." [laughs]

When you're out there.

Don't say, "Nice titties." [laughs]

[laughs]

Please stop.

You say, "Appropriate breasts."

Yeah. [laughs]

These are appropriate breasts.

Thank you for having your breasts out today.

[laughs] You know, when I, when I, when I was thinking about you coming in today-

[laughs]

... I was going, I was going through your life and I was like, man, this guy... There's few people I, I've, I've met who I feel like have lived a life that is more parallel than yours and mine.

Hmm.

Like, ev- everything about you. You know, you know when you know someone? You know them by how they've interacted with you.

Mm-hmm.

Very seldom do we know people by what they've done in life or what shaped them.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I don't know about you, but I, I very seldom ask friends of mine r- random questions.

How'd you get here?

Yeah, like-

Hmm

... how did you get here, or what influence did your father have in your li- Like, these are not things I think most people ask the people. And then it, it's only when you sit down and you look through someone's life do you go... I was like, damn, I worked with you at The Daily Show for seven years. I, I didn't know that you and I both shoplifted. I didn't know-

Oh, yeah

... that you and I were both raised by basically, like, a version of the same mom.

Hmm.

I didn't know that you and I were both, like, children of the streets, you know?

[laughs]

And you, and you tell me about K-pop and programming. [laughs]

[laughs]

You know what's fu- you know what's funny about dads though is, like, uh... And, I mean, uh, w- we'll talk a little bit about, about your book, 'cause man, I t- I love what you wrote. Um, I love what you wrote because it feels less like a book about your life, and more like a user manual-

Hmm

... on how to become a father, become a person, and even how to be a child. I, I don't, I don't... It's interest- We'll, we will, we'll get into it as we dig into it.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.

But I, I'm just thinking back to what you, you, what you spoke about, um, just a few minutes ago, the paranoia. The first thing I thought was like, "Oh, that's your dad."

How so?

Like, you studying the coding, you going, "I'm gonna learn how to code so that if somebody's coding for me, they, they can't, they can't bullshit me. I'm gonna learn how to do this so that they can't scam me." And I...

Yeah.

Your dad with the coupons would go... Like, you-

Oh, yeah

... your dad would check every single price of every single item in every single store-

Before he left the house

... before he left the house.

And he would only buy the item from the cheapest wh- whichever store offered that item the cheapest. So-

No matter how far they were?

No matter how far, anywhere in Jefferson County. So we would drive, grocery shopping would take three hours.

It's too done.

And you could just go to two stores and be done with it. Like, a conventional person, you get a couple coupons, and you just save money on these three items.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

But if there's coupons that are being offered somewhere else, 'cause in those days they did price matching.

Yeah. Mm.

So if I could bring the coupon in and prove to you that the across town got it for cheap-

Cheaper They'll give it to you.

So my pops would play that game everywhere in the city. We would go to one store for produce, one store for meat, another store for dairy, and then another store for, like, just dried, dry goods. And, like, that was, that was the thing. And he came home just smiling, 'cause, like, in the-

Like he beat the system?

Well, 'cause in a way he did, but he didn't, because on the Black side of town, fruit was more expensive than on the white side of town.

Hmm.

the one hand he saved money, but you spent money outside of the Black neighborhood.

Mm-hmm.

So did you really help? Did you hurt? You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's, like, one of those things. Also, you spent way too much gas.

Mm.

And, you know, my dad also bought a lot of... Like, my dad would do shit like a gallon of milk versus half a gallon versus a quart, and we would stand there and I would have to a- figure out what is the cost per ounce average between these three volumes of milk to decide which one was the best buy. There were, there were times where it was cheaper to go to the white side of town and buy four quarts of milk than it was to buy a gallon.

Than just to buy a gallon this side.

And w- I would come home with four just cartons of milk, or we'd go get two half gallons over here. But they got a deal where if you get two gallons, you get a third gallon free. So if you get three gallons for free, the per ounce average is lower than if you get the two half gallons. And so this week we're gonna get our dairy from over here, but we're gonna get too much milk.

Mm-hmm.

More milk than you could ever fucking drink. [laughs]

[laughs]

But we saved money. But did you though? If you got more milk than you can consume before it expires, have you saved money?

Yeah.

But that's how my pops operated. And he also bought a lot of things secondhand. So, you know, my dad came up as a haggler, so He stayed in the pawn shops. He stayed reading the want ads every Saturday and Sunday for, like,

used camera eq- my, my dad collected cameras.

Yeah.

So-

Like, vintage cameras.

Mm.

Yeah.

Vintage, old school cameras. And Lincoln, any, any Lincoln you could name, my pops owned it. He'd buy it used. He'd get the engine redone a little bit, drive it for a year, then flip it when the Blue Book went up on that particular car.

My favorite story was, i- in the book, you talk about how your dad was so notorious for loving these cars, he would get calls from dealerships when someone would drive in with a car-

Yeah

... because they wanted to trade in their ca- they were thinking of trading in the car.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

And then your dad would be there-

[laughs]

... already, like, signing papers for a car that hasn't even been sold by the other person yet.

Ain't been inspected yet. My, my... Somebody is coming in to trade in, like, let's say you got a Lincoln Continental, like a '89 Continental. That was his favorite one.

Suicide doors.

No, no. He, he, he would keep it factory. He would just add leather seats or whatever.

Oh.

He would, like, trick out the inside.

Uh-huh.

So my pops, it, it'd be a... It was Midfield Dodge was one of the places. And Midfield Dodge would call my dad, "Hey, Mr. Wood, we got a, we got somebody down here bringing in a '89 Continental. Uh, you're more than welcome to come down here and take a look at it and, uh, before we add it to the inventory, if it's something that suits your fancy." And then my pops was like, "Keep him there." [laughs]

[laughs] And he puts down four quarts of milk.

[laughs]

[laughs] And when I was old enough to start driving my pops everywhere, when I had, like, a, um, learner's permit when I was 15, "Say, boy, take me down to Midfield Dodge."

Hmm.

And we get to Midfield Dodge, and the owner of the Lincoln is inside doing their trade-in paperwork-

Hmm

... for whatever they're about to leave with, and my dad is outside looking at this per- their shit is still in the car. Like-

Kids and everything

... babies, yeah.

[laughs]

Belongings. [laughs]

Excuse me.

Yeah. [laughs] And my pops... But they would start haggling on the prices and playing around with that stuff. So anytime my dad could save a dollar, he was with it, 'cause he was for sure somebody was getting over on him somehow.

Right.

And you can't blame him, because all he did... My dad was the first black radio whatever everywhere he worked for, like, a decade and a half.

Yeah.

So he used to be in a lot of distrust-

Hmm

... of just America, you know, and capitalism as a whole. So anytime he could cut a corner and save a dollar, "Why buy it new when I know they're charging this, this, and this for it, and this is a perfectly good Canon or Nikon right here, and I could buy it from this person who I know is taking good care of it. I know the track record."

Hmm.

My pops would go over people's houses. We went to a lot... The newspaper was a wild time, 'cause you would just pull... It was like Craigslist.

The classifieds?

Yeah. You just... It's just a stranger just going, "Yeah,

come to my house. I have items." And then you just show up, and then you're just in a person's house. And my pops could tell by the way your living room was set up-

No way

... whether or not he was gonna buy-

Yes

... the camera from you or whatever.

How you take care of that space says a lot about how you take care of your items.

For him, the red flag was liquor. If you kept your liquor in a nice little-

Okay.

If you had a spot for your liquor-

Mm-hmm

... then that means you take care of nice things. And so it was that, and it was always the television. Like, if the TV looked good-

Mm-hmm

... and it was clean, and, like, not... You know, in those days, the TV would get-

Dust

... all the dust on it, the, the-

Mm-hmm

... you know, the box TVs.

Mm-hmm.

So if your electronics were dusted and your liquor was in a nice place in the house-

We're making a deal

... he, we, we gonna make a deal. But if I come in the house and your shit's dusty, you don't even wipe your table, I know you don't take care of that camera. So I know that camera's full of bullshit inside, too, so I'm just, "Mm, no. No deal."

Do you remember the conversations... Sorry, Roy. The conversations in the car going to make deals and the conversations coming back from making a deal?

I think that he and I talked about everything but me and my life. Like, I don't know, I just had one of them pops. He was just, like... I felt like I just merged into traffic. Like I said in the book, like, I never really spent time with my dad as much as I was just hanging along with him while his life was in progress.

Damn.

Come with me, we're doing the thing. We're grocery shopping. And it was like, he never came to a baseball game. He never came to kick it at the science fair or to see the thing. Like, my pops couldn't name a single teacher. He didn't show up to no parent-teacher conferences, so, like, that wasn't his... Now, to be fair, he was also spending three, four days a week across town with the other family.

[laughs]

So he was busy. [laughs] But there was also this degree of, like, what I appreciated about the time I spent with my pops was that I always felt like a man. He always treated me like a man.

Hmm.

When everybody else says, "You can't," and, "You gotta be careful"-

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah

it... They were doing decent enough as a suburb.

Mm.

And Langford was getting ready to run for city council and all this other stuff, and my pops and them are basically telling him why it could or couldn't work, and all of that shit. And Langford had an idea at the time to build an amusement park. He had done a traffic study because Fairfield's... Fairfield is between Birmingham and Mississippi.

Okay.

Langford had done a, had conducted a traffic study of showing how much traffic was passing through Birmingham to get to Atlanta. Atlanta was where you went if you wanted to live a life and do, you know, have some nightlife, or go see a game or, you know, whatever. And Langford's thing was, "We're losing all this money to Atlanta."

Mm-hmm.

"We could build some shit here. So if we're losing money because of Six Flags in Whitewater, we can build an amusement park-

Mm

... here in Jefferson County."

Jefferson County, yeah. Mm-hmm.

"And we can get the money."

Mm-hmm.

And so he's trying to explain that, and them motherfuckers laughed at him. They were like, "It's... You're not gonna build anything that can compete-

With Atlanta

... it's just not gonna happen." And every Saturday for the next year and a half, Larry Langford came in that barbershop and argued with my pops about why it's gonna work, and Langford had to grind. This motherfucker had to go to every suburb, a lot of them predominantly white, because Birmingham is... It's the city of Birm- The way government works, you have a county commission-

Yeah

... that basically is all the suburbs together as a conglomerate, and then you have the city of Birmingham.

Okay.

But you really can't do shit unless the county is on board with it. So to work the county, you have to work each individual commissioner and mayor in each individual suburb, see what their needs are, figure out a way to get them all to come together to agree that this thing that's gonna be in your neighborhood... Well, if it's so good, why's it gotta be in your neighborhood? Why can't it be in my neighborhood? Why is it in your... So Langford is playing all of these angles, and that motherfucker got it done. He got an amusement park built, and, and I, I say all of that to say, I just remember one day riding with my dad, like two years later, we were coming down I-20 through Bessemer, and we passed the sign for the amusement park, and it's Visionland. That was the name of it. At the time-

That was the name of the amusement park?

Yes, Visionland.

Visionland?

'Cause I had a vision. He was-

Wow.

Listen, this is Black men in the '90s. They-

I mean, still

... they literal-

Visionland.

Yeah.

"Hey, kids, you wanna go to Visionland?"

you gotta understand, what Larry Langford did at that time, it was the equivalent... To me-

That's crazy

... it was the equivalent of Steve Jobs unifying the record labels under iTunes-

Mm-hmm

... in the early 2000s.

Oh, so this was impossible.

It's impossible.

Okay. Okay, yeah. So you're driving down, you see the billboard for Visionland-

We passed the-

... in the Continental.

Yeah, and we s- we're riding in the '89 Continental, and we pass by the Visionland sign, and my dad is driving, and he just look-

Tries not to look

... and he looks up at, "Motherfucker did it." [laughs]

[laughs]

Which then starts a conversation about your dreams and your goals-

Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

... and what you're gonna have to do. And, and so every... Most conversations I had with my pops was about the battle that's going to be out there for you-

Hm

... at some point.

Huh.

It's never, "How was your day?" My dad couldn't name his favorite foods, but you knew, like, "Hey, Jesse Jackson's coming to town. We're gonna go backstage."

Right, right, right.

He's Democratic, probably, I mean, I think '88, he came to town. I was backstage. My, my pop's back there doing interviews, and it's Al Sharpton and everybody back there. And we're just chilling. And so then on the ride home, "Now, see, that man, what you have to understand is..." And blah, blah, blah, and the Black man, and the issues. And so he was just very talk to me like a regular-ass partner. Also, for context, my pops was old. My dad was 63 when I was born.

63 when he was born?

Yeah. Yeah, when I was b- when I was born.

Oh, man.

He was one of them

suave, I look 45-

Ah

... I lotion myself every day.

That's neat. No, but still, 63?

He was 63, yeah. I think my moms was, like, 30, 31.

Yeah, but still-

Somewhere in there

... I mean, that's a...

So his ideolo- I don't even... Knowing what I know now as a man, you at 63, and at that point, you over 70.

Mm-hmm.

You can't flip on your mind to have a conversation with no nine-year-old about nine-year-old things.

Hm. Oh, wow.

All you know is struggle and saving money on milk, and that's the values I'ma give you.

You know, it's, it's funny you say that because-

Hm

... your book, to me, feels like, like I, I know few people who do things in, in a more methodical way than Roy Wood Jr.

Hm.

Like, you... Every day when I'd see you at The Daily Show, it felt like you were an undercover cop.

[laughs]

But the cool ones, the ones who actually... You know what I mean.

I'm working a case, Trevor, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and what I mean by that is like-

[laughs]

... I've never seen Roy write a joke for no reason And not that there's a good way or bad way to write a joke, but I've, I've literally, I've never seen Roy write a joke for no reason. I would say to Roy... And you know how we are with comedy, like you and I. I would just say, "I have a bit." I'd be like, "Man, this joke that, there's this thing that's making me laugh right now, and I'm..." You know what I mean? Then I'll say to Roy, in the same joking tone, I'll be like, "Anything you working on?" And then Roy would turn to me, and I feel like my world would go black and white, and Roy would be like, "Man, I've noticed how there's an insidious presence in the city that has changed public transportation."

[laughs]

"And so, uh, I'm thinking of doing a deep dive into why the cost of the subway and the bus has gone up over the past few years more than 175%."

Yes.

"And I'm trying to figure out what that means to society and why nobody's saying anything about it."

[laughs]

Then I was like, "Oh, this, is this a joke? This is a joke that you're talking about?" This is where he's like, "Yeah, I'ma find the funny."

Yeah

... you gotta understand how Roy Wood Jr. comes into my life as a person.

Tell me.

How it starts. I'm starting on The Daily Show. They've done the craziest thing ever. They've gone, "We are getting a South African person," just say African, 'cause the South doesn't really help anyone.

Doesn't matter. Mm.

Doesn't, doesn't matter.

Mm-hmm.

"We're getting an African to replace Jon Stewart."

Mm-hmm.

The Jon Stewart.

Mm.

Okay. Now we have to assemble a cast, because everyone that was with Jon Stewart left. The only person who stayed, basically, was-

Klepper

... yeah, Jordan Klepper, and I guess Hasan, technically.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

But of the, like, the legacy people, everyone was like, "Oh yeah, we're gone. It's, it's finished." Okay? Now they're like, "You have to build a team around you, but we don't even know who you are."

Hmm.

So-

So who compliment you

... so I'm getting tapes, I'm getting reco- I'm getting everything. People are like, "Try this person, look at this person, try this person." And then it was Neal Brennan-

Mm-hmm

... who sent... He was like, "If you are looking for somebody, there are few human beings who are funnier and deserve it more than Roy Wood Jr."

Wow.

I was like, "I don't know who Roy Wood Jr. is."

Wow.

And then somebody told me Roy was performing at the Comedy Cellar. So I go down to the Comedy Cellar, I watch Roy perform. One of the funniest bits I've ever seen.

Mm.

I still remember it to this day. It was a bit about how gangs, do they have, like, middle management in a gang?

I'm like, "Whatever, we just do the thing." They're like, "No, we have procedures here."

Has he done sexual harassment training?

So-

[laughs]

[laughs]

Yeah.

[laughs]

Yes, I have.

So, [laughs] so they bring, so they bring Roy in. Roy does the audition. I mean, he's Roy. He's one of the funniest people. Immediately everyone's on board. But now we are jumping into a show that's starting in h- how long?

Three weeks.

Three weeks after we meet. So now we already have to jump in as comedic friends, office mates, partners. There's no onboarding, there's no, there's no long getting-to-know-you process.

It's merging on the freeway from the left lane.

That's exactly what it is.

Mm.

It's merging instantly.

Mm.

And the thing that got me about this guy was, I work with comedians all the time. Comedians are never serious. Comedians are... Everything is a joke. Roy is like the antithesis of that. It's like Roy starts from serious and then turns into the funniest human being you've ever come across in your life. But every day, every day-

Consistently

... oh, let's put it this way. In the first five weeks that we worked together, if you had asked me, "Who do you think here is going to shoot someone?" I would have picked Roy.

In the first six weeks?

But that's because I didn't, I didn't-

There's a reason for my intensity, though, but keep going.

Okay. I'm glad you acknowledge it.

Do you have a gun?

No, no, no. But I, I, I-

Okay.

No, here's what it is about Roy. Here's what it is, is like, first of all, I also didn't know who shoots people.

Mm-hmm.

I, like, th- this is before I, like, lived in America.

Maybe a son of a Vietnam vet. Yeah, this was still some good Brooklyn shootings.

I was so proud of this. [laughs] My audition for The Daily Show, there was a story about a Black kid in West Virginia. This is 2015, peak Confederate flag. Bree Newsome climb the pole, snatch it down. There was a kid, there was a Black kid in West Virginia who had a Confederate flag tattoo.

Mm-hmm.

And it was basically, oh, I'm Black and I ain't tripping on a Confederate flag. And I pitch a chat between me and Trevor where I defend the Black kid on the grounds that he's Black in West Virginia.

Hm.

He has to get a tattoo-

Hm

... so he can survive the walk home. It's camouflage.

Mm-hmm.

Matter of fact, I'm gonna go to West Virginia and rescue this kid, and I roll up my sleeve-

Get a t-

... and reveal a temporary Confederate tattoo-

[laughs]

... that I had put on myself-

[laughs] That's funny

... that morning-

That's funny

... at a FedEx Office. I'm at a FedEx Office at 7:00 in the morning, the morning of my Daily Show audition, printing Confederate flags-

[laughs]

... onto stickers-

[laughs]

... and fitting them.

Tattoo. [laughs]

Yes. The, this one's too big. I need to print another.

Oh, man.

This one's too small. I need to print another. And using my graphic design skills, bitch.

Yeah, [laughs] you know exactly how long it takes and how much it costs.

Yeah. And I made a Confederate flag, and I stuck that shit on my arm, and I brought the cuff of my sleeve down. I was like this the whole audition, and then revealed that shit.

Ta-da.

And so that's where the intensity came from because I'm like, "I can't lose this job. This has to work, and I gotta feed this boy when he show up."

Mm-hmm.

it's the 20th anniversary of the Million Man March. We've been on the air two weeks, and you know how you're trying to figure out how Black you can be in a space?

Hm.

And I'm like, "Fuck it, man. I'm... " You know, Ronny Chieng was the one that gave me the courage to pitch it. I go into the pitch meeting, in the field meet. I go, "Yeah, uh, it's the 20th anniversary of the Million Man March. I think there's some comedy there. Um, we should go." They go, "You sure?" "Yeah. Not only we should go, we should talk to somebody in the Nation of Islam. See if you can book that."

[laughs]

And they're like... [laughs] Like, the field producer's like, "Okay. Well, what's the angle?" I give him the angle on it, and they're like, "Okay." 'Cause no matter what you pitch, it's gotta go to Trevor and the producers, and then they go yes or no.

And, and it is.

So we get into the, the pitch meeting with Trevor and the producers, and we're like, "Yeah, there's this thing happening in DC with a lot of Black people, and it's scaring the whites who are in DC, and I just wanna go talk to the white people and see why they scared. If you're not racist, why are you bothered with Black people-

Right. Yeah, yeah

... just fellowshipping?" And Trevor's like-

Kinda like fellowshipping

... and Trevor goes, "Yeah, do it And it was one of the best pieces we did. And it's one of those things where I'm like, "Okay, I get to really di- dive into how I see the world and what the comedy of that could be." And, like, the Confederate thing in the audition, and then when they send me and Klepper on that ride-along to start the season.

Mm-hmm.

And then when that, when the Million Man March piece got approved, that's my second piece out the door, I was like, "Okay, this is a g- I've..." I called my girl, "All right, y- you can move here now."

We're good.

[laughs] I think it's gonna be all right.

It's, man, it's, it's so funny how we, we don't-

Mm

... we don't necessarily know other people's intentions, perspectives, and experiences while we- we're in the same space as them. You know, there's, there's always that, uh... I don't, I don't know, don't even know where I read it first, but it was a really beautiful passage that said, "Next time you see somebody in the traffic, uh, or walking in the street and they have a, you know, a, a scowl on their face, and they look at you, and you feel like they hate everyone, ask yourself what is happening in their lives that's making them feel like that, because they're just you on another day."

Hmm.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And it's hard to think like that all the time because we think the world is about us as people. And what's fascinating to me about this story is, in my head, I was the one fighting for my life with The Daily Show.

Hmm.

And you were just killing it. Uh, like, you, you, you're one of the most effortless comedians I've ever seen. So every day I was, I was going, "I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't know if this is gonna work. But thank God I've got Roy Wood Jr."

Hmm.

Little did I know

he was in an office panicking, looking through the classifieds. [laughs]

Yeah. [laughs] For Eugene Lee.

Checking for other jobs.

[laughs]

Like, all right, let's see. Graphic design. Just by the way, you know how I always wonder about, like, the butterfly effect in life?

[laughs]

Do you ever think to yourself that there's somebody out there who worked in that, wherever you were, whatever copy shop or Kinko's, whatever you were-

Kroger

... yeah, wherever you were. And they're telling people, they're like, "Hey, man, you know that guy Roy Wood Jr.? He used to work on the... You know that dude's a secret Confederate?"

[laughs]

No, 'cause-

The FedEx where you was printing

... think about it. If you saw-

Yeah. [laughs]

If you saw Roy Wood Jr. printing out tattoos and putting them on himself, then putting it in his sleeve. And then-

Then you-

... you saw him on The Daily Show-

"Ah, this one is good"

... you'd be like, "Nah."

[laughs]

You'd be like, "Deep down, I know who he is."

[laughs]

You go-

Bro

... "Deep down, I know exactly who he is."

Bro-

But-

... that shit was a struggle. And I mean, shit, even just getting to New York once I got the job. Only reason I was able to move to New York is 'cause I had Wendy Williams. My- Wendy Williams, I auditioned for the show, and the, the, the Jermaine Fowler, Whoopi Goldberg thing dies. About a week later, I get a call from Wendy Williams. She was doing, like, a storytelling tour and wanted an opener. So I'm on the road with Wendy.

Hmm.

And then I get the call for the audition, and then I have to ask Wendy Williams, "Can I have a day off?" W- would you not-

the book? Like, why, why the book, and why the book about fatherhood and being a father and what being, you know, what your father meant to you and didn't mean to you, et cetera? Like, why, why that and why now?

'Cause I didn't know my dad. I don't think I truly knew him. He also died when I was 16, and then on top of that, we never talked a lot about his being and who he was. Ground zero for it was COVID when I did Finding Your Roots.

Hmm.

Like, I had a inkling about like, all right, am I gonna be present enough as a father? But COVID in '20 to '21 was kinda like

the turning point because it's... I do Finding Your Roots, and then Henry and I, his mother and I, we break up. And so now I'm out of the house, and it's joint custody. Okay, fine, but in your head you're like, "Fuck, I'm losing time. I'm losing moments. I, um-

Hmm

... you lose half the tuck-ins. You lose half the chit-chats."

Hmm.

And you know, "Fuck, he's gonna not know something about it. He's missing time to observe me. All right, fuck, he's gonna... I mean, he needs to know me. What if I die before he's 16? He's not gonna know me." And then you realize how compartmentalized your friendships are.

Yeah.

You know? I got partners I've been tight with since eighth grade. Not a lot, but they only know so much of me because they're not in New York.

Yeah.

And then I got partners here who I work with, but they can't tell you nothing about my personal life. They can't tell you about the nuances of me. My son would have to go around to all these different folks and start piecing together.

Hmm.

And I didn't want that for him. So I was like, "Well, what if I just put something together?" He needs values. If I'm gone tomorrow, what would I want him to know about me? Okay. Well, what do you know about your dad?

Hmm.

Shit, I don't know a lot. Okay. Well then, where did I learn all that stuff? And then you start realizing that it was all these beautiful people that you got put in your life either for one day or for, you know, flash in the pan or for a lifetime that influenced you. And so then I do Finding Your Roots around the same time. Finding Your Roots, I find out that my dad lost his father when he was four. I did not know that.

Hmm.

It was never told to me. I don't have much of a relationship with my father's side of the family.

Hmm.

I am- I'm the ninth of 11 kids. I'm my mother's only child. I got a gang of half siblings. We talk about Dad a little bit, but I don't know folklore. I don't know cousins and any of that shit. I, I got taken around my dad's side of the family twice before he died. I don't know. I ain't never seen you. Don't know. I'm sure you're a good person, but I just don't fucking know you. So sitting on Finding Your Roots, finding that out. Then in that

same episode, my dad walked with a limp. He had a, um, he had a hip implant. He had a hip re- he had a prosthetic hip from when he was a teenager because he was trying to... A woman, he was a, he was in high school, and a woman had just broken up with him, and so he was trying to, like, he was trying to get her back. You trying to get back to, you trying to get your girl back. You know, somebody pulled your girl, now you trying to get her back. And in running behind her, like literally running behind her, got hit by a car. And so walked with a limp the rest of his life. Walked with a prosthetic that had to be extended for the rest of his life. You're 13 when that happens, what does that do to your psyche? What does that do to you-

Hmm

... as, as a, as a human? And how does it change your relationship with women-

Hmm. Hmm

... for the rest of your life? How does it change how you see women? How does it change how you see love?

With a daily reminder.

Yeah. And you start treating people like they are disposable in that part of your life because you were disposed of by a woman. And granted, it's teenage love, but still.

Yeah.

That's-

Rejection's rejection

... that's the most scarring, them the most scarring years for love, man. So it gave me a different perspective. So a lot of things that I was really upset about with him when my son was born, I'd already kinda started the process of letting him go, but then once, once he was... Once I did Finding Your Roots and then I was out of the house and not in a regular 24-hour status with him-

Hmm

... there became this heightened sense of now. Now. Because I don't know what's gonna happen. He knows his mom's side. He knows all of them. He s- sees those relatives on a regular basis.

Right.

I'm closer with my two younger half siblings than I am my olders.

I keep in touch with the olders, but not on some every year get together and eat ribs type shit. We don't do it, so you know, when I go home to visit my, my mom, some of my half siblings may stop by the house, say hey to him. You know, so you're aware, but there is nobody in my son's life, there's nobody in my life who in my absence could accurately simulate the man that I am to my son.

Hmm. Huh.

So I write a book.

Yeah, but you-

Right

... you didn't, you didn't just write a book, though. You, [sighs] you revealed yourself. 'Cause I, I, I think we have two options when we write a book. Maybe, maybe even three. You know, like one is to write a story of how we wish to be perceived. Another story we can write is how we are perceived, and then the third option is to write about who we really are and how we think.

Mm-hmm.

And what I, what I found m- like most interesting about your story and how you wrote it was you're grappling the whole time. I don't feel like you figured out anything. In a good way, by the way.

Oh.

You know what I mean? I don't, I don't read this and it's neatly tied up in a bow. I, I-

With a happy ending.

Yeah. I don't, I don't read about your relationship with your dad and go like, "And then it all worked out. Ba-ba-da-bup-ba-dow." You know? It's like, no, no, there's, there's none of that. Like I, I... It, it feels like this, this gradual unraveling and this stripping, and I, I don't think you can separate it from where the book starts. Like you, you've got this, this great story where you talk about, um, being in the airport and you, you bump into a fellow comedian. He's buying a Father's Day card.

Yeah.

And he basically asks you, "Are you getting a Father's Day card?" And you realize you've never bought a Father's Day card.

Never.

But what I found funny in that moment is like you start talking about how limited Father's Day cards are. You know, it's like, "Best dad ever," "To the man who taught me how to fish."

[laughs]

You know? "To my favorite camping buddy." And then Roy's like, "Where's the one where it's like I didn't really know you?"

[laughs]

"But, uh, if I did, I guess it might've been great."

Yeah.

Like where's... And it-

Where are the genuine ones?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Like where's-

Where's the genuine-

You know what I mean?

Yeah. [laughs]

And, like from that moment I was just like, man, we're, we're in for a journey on this.

I don't know many people where they can truly say that their fathers have been sentimental with them. So when you're buying your dad a Father's Day card, you're buying him a Father's Day card because they've told you it's Father's Day for the most part.

Yeah.

Right? But like if-

And you're a small minority as well.

Exactly.

Mm-hmm.

But when you look at like moms and women, they've generally lived in a world of like actually expressing the sentimentality.

Mm-hmm.

The feeling, how they... You know, like I'll give you a simple example.

Mm-hmm.

When I was flying from South Africa back to New York, my mom said to me, "You..." I always go say goodbye to her, you know, before I travel, and then my mom said to me something that I was like, "This is too beautiful for a human just..." She said to me, "Please send me a picture of the first flower you see when you, when you get to New York."

[laughs]

And I was like, damn. It was such a like-

Sentimental

... like she said, "Please send me a flower-

Yeah

... of the first picture you see in New York." Now, I didn't realize how few flowers there are when she said that. No, I genuinely did. It was like land, land at Newark, drive in, drive... You know, like man, there's no flowers.

Yeah.

But besides the point, it was such a sentimental, soft-

Just, yeah

... you know, it wasn't like, "All right, kid. You go out there and you work hard. You, uh, you do your best, you hear?"

Yeah.

You know?

I, I, I, I struggle with that with my son and making sure that that's not my default, you know, and just, you know, "Be a man," and, uh... You're like, oh, no, he needs a hug in this instance, so give him a hug. It's also made me more vulnerable with him in the day to day.

Yeah.

And then I, like I had to... There was someone that works for me that no longer works for me, and in making that decision to sever that relationship, he was the first person I talked about it with.

Oh, wow.

He's nine. But, you know, "Hey, man. How you doing?" "Not good. I had to-

Oh, wow

... this person not vibing." And that's no different than you not getting along with somebody-

And only in therapy did I learn, it was like, oh, no, no, no. That's... You know what I mean? That, that, that, that ga-

His absence

... that gaping hole there-

Yeah

... taught you this. Taught you this.

Yeah, you grew a limb because of that.

Exactly.

Yeah.

You, this missing-

Yeah

... made you compensate in this way. This not being there made you feel this way, that you... Do you know what I mean?

Actually, that's-

And it's, it's interesting because-

That's actually good, yeah

... 'cause you, you do write in the book, and you're very quick to say it in the beginning, and in a beautiful way you go, "Look-" My mom was my everything. My mom built this world. She's my rock, my s- you know, the women in my life. And you're like, "That's a story for another book." But you're like, "But right now, I wanna write this book about fathers," and you explain it through the lens of your son. But even in that moment, I felt like, I was like, damn, we take for granted how, how many people grow up and live in a world where their moms have to bear the burden of being both parents, and so in a way don't get the joy of being the full version of who they are.

Of themselves, yeah.

Yeah.

Do, do, do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, of being one role.

They get robbed.

And also just being one person.

Yeah.

You get robbed. Like, that, to the gape and hole thing, like, that was part of it. And, and it's weird, 'cause a lot of that I didn't even discover until I started writing.

Mm.

Like, I don't even think some of that stuff came out in therapy, so, like, the idea of hustle, hustle, hustle, and do it myself to a detriment, as you've often told me.

[laughs]

And, like, the idea of doing... Like, Trevor will say to me sometimes, like, Trevor just s- see me, like, post some random event that I've done or some shit, and he'll just come, he'll come in my office, "You don't have to say yes to everything. You can say no sometimes and just go home. It's okay." But my brain is still in-

Hustle

... TBS, Whoopi Goldberg. Like, there's a trauma with that, right? But even predating that, when I look at, there were times where my parents-

Hmm

in middle school, late elementary-

Yeah

... middle school, you can look at them and go-

Become aware

... "Oh, damn, my folks are having a bad day today."

Mm-hmm.

You're less selfishly involved in your own wants. So this idea of, damn, I know, I know she be stressing about money, 'cause I see her body language when I ask

for $10 for-

Yeah

... a field trip.

Yep, yep.

All right, bet. I'ma put my Nintendo tapes in the paper. I've been watching my pops long enough. I know how to secondhand some shit. I'ma put a garage sale in the paper. It costs $10. Bargain b- Birmingham News just have something called Bargain Binans. Anything under $100, they would put in the paper for free. So I would put my entire bedroom in the paper for free, Saturday pickup only, 9:00 to noon. And I'd put a table out that bitch, and I'd sit in the front yard with some Boston baked beans and just sell old toys and sell old Nintendo tapes or whatever. And so this idea of becoming self-sufficient, that shit felt good. So, you know, I was working. You know, they don't care about, they don't enforce child labor laws like that. And what I peeped was that if I had a job that would only give me 20 hours, I could just go work temp service. As soon as I leave this job, I'ma go down to Labor Ready or Labor Finders. They gonna get me outside in the construction for $7.75 at a time when minimum wage was four and a quarter.

Yeah, but you-

So that's good money

... you had a crazy list of jobs. I mean, this-

So-

... this man worked. You, you were sweeping the parking lot outside, uh-

Church's Chicken

... Church's Chicken.

In West End at the time.

Right. One day you went and worked at a, what was it, like, a concrete factory?

Quikrete.

Quikrete?

Quikrete in Columbia, South Carolina.

I will say, that story's funny because W- Roy, every story, Roy's like, "I went in, and I worked hard, and I did my best, and I stayed there." And then Quikrete, he's like, "Nah, man, I'm out." [laughs]

[laughs] The hardest I've ever worked is the Quikrete factory in Columbia, South Carolina, bro. I've never understood heat.

[laughs]

And so you know what Quikrete is? It's the fa- it's the concrete, the, the wet... You add water to make it-

Dries cement.

Yeah, yeah.

There's a machine that's got all the Quikrete

powder-

Mm-hmm

... and it comes down into a funnel, into a bag.

No, but wait, wait. You gotta, you gotta set this up from the beginning, 'cause you have to understand how this man got there. This is what makes it better for me, 'cause if you went to Quikrete to get a job, I'll go like, "Oh, well, this is par for the course." No.

[laughs]

The days, the day starts with Roy and a, a room of grown men.

5:00 AM.

5:00 AM.

[laughs] How old are you at this time, bro?

Uh, early 20s. 21, 22.

Yeah.

But this is while I'm on the road doing stand-up. So I'm doing stand-up. In those days, you had comedy clubs that would be six-day runs.

Mm-hmm.

So in Columbia, there used to be a club, Comedy House Theater. They would book the emcee for a two-week run.

Mm-hmm.

So you're in town for 14 days.

You're there.

May as well get a part-time job.

You just get a fucking job.

[laughs]

But what are you doing all day?

[laughs] Thinking about comedy.

Oh, Roy's-

No

... special, man.

[laughs]

Roy, you're special.

Go get a job. So I would just go, you drive down to Labor Ready. You sign in, and if you got work boots, they put you on. You get staffed faster if you got-

Work boots

... yeah, if you got work

boots. And- A dude would just go, "All right, Wood, Jenkins, Turner, y'all working the Quikrete van outside." You go get on a van, they drop you off at a fucking factory at 8:00 in the morning. It's already 90 degrees.

Mm.

And it's a big aluminum shed that's baking.

Hot.

And, and inside, just for... And mind you, all I work is food service. I work air condition.

Mm.

Like, but to work, to make quick money, the money's outside.

Yeah.

You gotta sweep leaves.

Yeah, yeah.

You gotta do yard. So I'm outside in the heat, and there's a big-ass machine that's just pumping Quikrete into a bag, and then the bag falls off that nozzle and just goes down a conveyor belt. And at the end of the conveyor belt, you just lift this 10-pound bag of concrete, and you put it on a, um, a, on a forklift pallet.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

You stack that bitch eight high. Somebody come in with the cellophane, wrap that bitch. Forklift man come in, pick it up, take it to the truck. They put down a new pallet.

Again.

Wash, rinse, repeat for eight hours.

That's crazy.

And I'm the bag man, and I'm just loading the pallet. And you think that this isn't a lot, but this-

For eight hours

... from shoulder height, y- 10

pounds from up high-

[laughs]

... to down low.

One direction.

One direction.

This is called-

The whole time

... eccentric loading. That's what that is. [laughs]

And you're 20, and this is grown men, and they're yelling at you 'cause you're not moving fast enough. And the, the powder's in the air-

You're dusty

... and it mixes with your sweat, so now you have concrete naps in your hair.

[laughs]

And you got a show tonight.

[laughs]

You still have a show to do. So-

[laughs]

... you get back to the room at 5:30, and you're just, like, washing concrete-

Concrete [laughs]

... out of your hair. And then-

Clogging the drains.

Yeah. And then at 7:00 tonight, you gotta be on stage. "Man, the Confederate flag crazy, ain't it?"

[laughs]

14... I, I did that job two days, and then they moved me to a church. They were building a megachurch, and we were just sc- scraping spackle off the concrete foundation. But that was so hard, so hot. Like, I've never worked like that in my life. But it gave me such an appreciation and understanding for construction and just blue-collar work in this country as a whole, man. You meet some people, man. You meet some really interesting people doing construction. I think everybody in this country either food service or work outdoors for one year.

They should have to.

Every- everybody.

Yeah.

Every single person in this country just on some mandatory... You ain't gonna get them to go to the military, but I think everybody should do food service or work outside.

It's so funny you say that. We had a, we had an episode with Tressie McMillan Cottom.

Yeah.

And she, her, her, she was saying, like, if she ruled the world, she would make it that everyone had to work in the service industry, or everyone... It's, it's ex- almost exactly what you're saying.

A disturbingly intimate relationship with fast food.

[laughs]

Let me, let me tell you something. Roy Wood Jr.-

I would pitch food segments [laughs]

... every single week.

And he's off sugar.

Every single week.

And they would go viral. [laughs]

Roy would say to me, "Yo, so I've noticed that Popeyes is launching a new chicken sandwich."

[laughs]

"I think what we should do is we do a..." Then I go, "Wait, wait, wait. What's Popeyes?" "Oh, it's a chicken joint. It's a chicken joint." Then I'm like, "Oh, is it everything...?" Then Roy, and Roy's the most detailed person I know. So Roy won't just say to you, "It's a chicken joint." He'll be like, "It's a chicken joint that started in the, in the '50s, '60s. And, uh, now down south, it wasn't the biggest. You got Bojangles and a few other chains that have really been blowing up over that section. And, you know, it, it's not that big on the West Coast, but over here you got, you got Popeyes, and Popeyes is pretty big. And Popeyes is normally known for their, for their pieces. They're not really known... They're not like KFC and Chick..." And then, th- th- then... And he'd take me down this deep rabbit hole.

Chick-fil-A is for sandwiches. Popeyes is for-

This guy-

... loose chicken.

Yo-

KFC is for a full meal.

Yo.

With the mash.

This man knows-

Mm

... life through the lens of fast food.

Yes.

I don't, I don't know how.

Okay.

I don't... You have the most intimate relationship with fast food.

We would do segments on the show, like, and I would just mention the McRib in passing, and then McDonald's would just send me, like, 20 McRib coupons. Were you there, you were there when Mountain Dew

sent the Baja Blast-

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah

... Tabasco sau-

Oh, yeah

... hot sauce. Yeah. We were talking about Baja Blast. I-

Do you remember when you made the, um, you had, like, a, it was, like, a mafia-style thing on your, on your social media.

Oh, the Coalition.

The Co- the, it was the Chicken Wars or some- Because, I think it was because Popeye made the burgers, right?

It was because Popeyes-

Because Popeyes-

... made the burger

... made the burger.

[laughs]

Roy did this whole thing. Let me tell you something. If someone should win a Pulitzer Prize-

For that

... for fast food analysis and, like, their writings and their thinking... I, I've always wondered, like, what, [sighs] not what is it about fast food, but you have this... It's almo-

Food connects us.

Yeah, but it's something deeper than that, Roy. There's something, there's something you... I don't know, man.

It's all an analogy for life. So I, the Coalition was basically a drama involving chicken sandwiches plotting against Popeyes because Popeyes was fucking up the supply game.

[laughs]

Because the Popeyes chicken sandwich at the time was essentially a new drug. And imagine-

Mm

... how would all the old drug dealers feel?

Established with their clientele.

And this guy's getting all the profit.

Moving into their new turf.

We got to kill him. We got to kill him. How do we take out Popeyes? And so I sat during COVID and just did stop-motion animation with real sandwiches that I collected from all over the city, and shot a drama and put it on [laughs] YouTube. And it connected with people in a way, because I feel like each fast food- There's, they have a personality.

Yeah.

There's a relatability.

Yeah.

The... What I mean by this is, like-

[laughs]

You can ask someone, if you said to someone, like, "Oh, who goes to KFC? Who goes to, you know, In-N-Out? Who goes..." They'll, they'll give you an answer.

[laughs]

Let me tell you, Roy, if any of these companies need a consultant, they should come to this man.

[laughs]

I think you know things about the supply chain, the quality of the food, where the food has been sourced, how it's been sourced, what it's all about, like, in the most serious way you can-

They, they change suppliers, and then that affects the recipe. Like, even down to the water that they use to make biscuits, it can change-

Listen to this man

... how biscuits taste for different reasons. But it's the same shit with bagels. It's just nobody thinks that it might also apply to the biscuits, but it does.

Mm-hmm.

That's why fast food chains taste different in different regions sometimes.

I wonder when, when you think like this, right, and then I, I think back to your dad, it's interesting that you say, "I didn't know him." And yet from my reading of you, so much of you seems like a deep knowing of him.

Well, 'cause I'm him.

Hmm.

And that's also a mind, a m- a mind fuck, is looking at yourself and going, "Oh, [sighs] let's see. I care about people,

check. Okay. I figured out a way to use my gift to enrich and educate people. Okay, check. Healthy distrust of close relationships, check. Damn, I'm just doing what he'd do. I'm just a little funnier than him."

Hmm.

You know, I still have... I was, I was looking at my phone earlier 'cause I was trying to find this, but it's like I will have, like, a random premise, and then it's something that gets to a deeper thing, but I don't know how to make it, like, funny to me.

Hmm.

And, like, there's [laughs] there was a movie called The, The Assignment with Michelle Rodriguez where a male hit man is turned into... To get revenge on a hit man, a male hit man is turned into a woman. [laughs]

Sounds familiar.

When was this movie made?

And so now the woman hit man-

[laughs]

... is looking for the surgeon that turned her into a woman-

To reverse the surgery

... to get re- or get revenge.

So the job is done?

Correct.

Oh. [laughs]

And so-

[laughs]

How... This movie was 2018, 2019 maybe.

Okay

... so a bigger conversation about transphobia. Like, that movie-

Mm-hmm

... in its core is, to me. Now how I get to the joke, I don't know.

[laughs] Figure it out.

But the challenge of that, like, that, that's the stuff, that's the material that excites me.

But that's what I'm-

Like that-

But that's what I mean. But this, this is, this is what I mean about being your father's son, right? A- and, and, and, and what your book goes through in so many ways is your dad was living this life. Like, I, I love that you do the checking of the boxes. And the natural question that it brings me to is how do you then choose... You talk a little bit about auditing. One, one of the most beautiful lines in the book, and I'll paraphrase it in case I get it wrong, but you basically say nothing makes you audit your relationship with your parents like having a child of your own.

Yep.

Because

when you have a child of your own, you then have to ask yourself what you want them to take of you.

Yeah.

But then you then have to ask yourself who you really are.

Mm-hmm.

And in asking yourself who you really are, you have to ask yourself who made you that way.

Yeah. What are the worst parts of you?

Exactly.

And how do you not accidentally infuse those things-

Exactly

... into the child unknowingly?

Mm-hmm.

Which means you have to be conscious of the fact that something as simple as saying, "I love you", Pops didn't do that. From the old school, so he'd just buy you some food.

Hmm.

Like, it's like one of them old school Black jokes where your mama come in, "You hungry?" After she done gave you a whooping or some shit.

[laughs]

Like, that's, that's what my dad was. My dad was-

Educator and provider

... the... I'll tell you, I'll tell you something that's, that scares me to that point where I don't know if I'm doing what he did. So my parents were separated the fir- until the, till third grade.

Yeah.

That's when my parents got back together. So my mother and I lived in Memphis before we moved in with him in Birmingham. My pops would come to Memphis once a month, and he'd stay for a day and a half, maybe two days, but he would sleep half of that. And knowing what I know now-

He wasn't sleeping

... you older, you're a older dude, you want a nap. I'm 46, I want a nap. This motherfucker was knocking 70. So yeah, you want a nap, and you drove three and a half hours, and you worked mornings and night.

Mm-hmm.

He did morning radio for five hours, and then he did a evening jazz and talk... He'd do a talk show in the afternoon, and that would roll into a jazz show.

You was tired.

So yeah, he was tired.

Hmm.

But he would always bring me a truck. He'd bring me, like, a little toy truck from some truck stop or some shit or whatever, and I'd play with the truck, but they were all forgettable toys. Nothing that stood out. And then fast-forward, I'd say maybe two years ago [sighs] Let's just say second grade, when my son was in second grade. He's in fourth grade now, but let's just say second grade. First grade, he became sentient about me being gone.

Yeah.

You know, 'cause I, 'cause I, 'cause I'm, I'm out... I move out of the house, so it's kind of a, "You know, Dad, where are you?" type thing. And we're explaining to him the, the dynamics of what co-parenting would be. And then I think that second grade, I felt my relationship with him becoming a little bit more sentient and him missing me.

And so this idea of, all right, well, when I'm gone, he needs to know why I'm gone. So the relationship becomes a little bit more communicative when I'm, when I'm gone.

Yeah.

Here's a video or the thing. I'll send that to his tablet. We will FaceTime here and there, but I more so enjoy sending him vi- Perfect example, he loves trains, transportation, planes, all that. So if it's a city he's never been to, I'm first person POV camera from the time I get off the plane. Show him the whole airport. Shoot that nice seven-minute video, break that bitch down into two-minute chunks so it can send quicker, and then I'll get on the train that, that morning. I w- we did 20 cities in 30 days through Canada last year, and every day I rode mass transit in the morning to go get a paper, and we just ride the train all day. Here's the train. Here's a... So I look like a tourist, which really used to scare me, because now I look robbable.

[laughs]

You know what I'm saying? Like, my... You know, my Spidey sense is, is just-

Yeah, your paranoia's off the charts right now.

I, I'm from the m- at the time, the most murderous ZIP Code in Birmingham.

[laughs]

Like, facts.

Hmm.

So my paranoia is justified. That PTSD, that comes with you in a nice little knapsack. So I'll send videos, and sometimes I'll bring a little toy, a little souvenir, and now I rack my brain on when he's older, does he equate that to me trying to be connected, or does he look at it the way I look at the trucks? It's just a fickle, lazy, "Huh, motherfucker. Yeah. Yeah."

Mm-mm.

That's an interesting... It's an interesting one. Well-

But you, you don't know for another t- 30 years. You ain't gonna know till he has his kid probably.

You know, the, the thing yesterday was, when we were discussing this episode, if you'd allow me, was I knew I was not gonna read the book and I didn't want to, because I wanted to experience the book through you, but I experienced a bit of you from him. Then I remember saying, "I don't think from this conversation Roy has ever been a child."

Yeah, you did say that.

Remember? I said, "He's never been a child." But what we find is, what you've explained about kids and parenting, is that kids, if there's more than one sibling in a household, they'll experience parents differently, because children allow you a chance to reinvent yourself.

Correct.

So you become whoever you want them to be. I mean, you want them to see as it goes. Having one child is the ultimate gift and curse because they experience you transforming in front of them.

Mm-hmm.

So you can never have that one idea that you think they will have of you. But what happened was, I think your dad, his practicality showed up in real life when you were growing up and in your life right now as a grownup. Because when he was older, obviously, and you were younger, he understood that he didn't have time. He wasn't going to see you at a, as a 25-year-old man if you take the age gap.

Hmm.

So he knew that he had to be practical with you. So what he had to do was he had to make you a father, and your child made you a son. Because you are out here now. You are playing. You are taking videos. You're taking pictures of things. You're looking like a tourist. You want to be a child. You want to hug him. You want to show him that you love him. So those, those are your gifts. Those are the things-

Yeah

... that he left you with. He made you a father. Your son made you a, a, a child, and that's

what you must take with you. But often it happens that we want to live vicariously sometimes, and we get fixated on the mistakes of others. And in life there comes that time where you equalize. Now you understand why your dad had to take that nap.

Yeah.

At first you might have thought-

I get it

... "Yeah, he's avoiding me."

Yeah.

"He doesn't want to be..."

Yeah.

Now y- you understand exactly why, [laughs] why he had to take that-

I be wanting to nap so bad right now, boy. [laughs]

... after working at Quikrete, you understand. [laughs]

Ooh.

And, and, and, and that's what I find whenever Trevor and I have conversation. We, we get to that point where we like, how do we reconcile our pasts and make peace with it? And I think with this conversation right here, from the little that I know of you, and I'm sure there's a lot to find out, is you are reconciling, balancing the books. You took the good. You discarded the bad.

Yeah.

And you're infusing it now in your life. And your dad lives through you, and your son lives through you. So I think that gap and that distance between what your dad could have been in your life and what you want to be in your son's life is visible in how you show up in your son's life.

That's beautiful. Thank you for that.

Yeah.

Uh, I, I try now with him-

Mm-hmm

... to just be very verbal about-

Yeah

... feelings, sharing feelings. To me, to me, the main thing is love, and how does that manifest?

Hmm.

How do you receive it?

Yeah.

Teach him how to receive it. Teach him how to show it. If I can do that-

Mm-hmm

... I'm good.

Does he know how funny you are?

Funny, no. But he knows, he knows... He is aware of what I do for a living.

fun- Fiction ... joy, fiction, imagination, vision. Mm-hmm. Just random things. Mm-hmm. We focus so much. Think about how many people have grown up and are growing up in worlds where the only thing they're allowed to think about is surviving. Mm-hmm. So your dad goes, "Roy, I need you to be educated." Mm-hmm. "And I need you to know how to navigate the world."

And watch out for these white people.

Exactly. [laughs]

[laughs]

But I, I, I can't teach you joy. Mm-hmm.

And don't pay your taxes, 'cause they're taking the Black man's right to vote away in 2040. [laughs]

[laughs]

I'm just telling you, this is the type of shit we talking about.

No, but, yeah, but, I mean-

This is what we talking about in the car. I'm like-

Yeah, but, but if, but if you think-

10 years old

... but if you think-

Don't pay them taxes

... but if you think about it, though- Gonna take away your rights ... if you, if you think about it, though, he has to tell you that because he can't, he can't tell you how to have fun because he didn't come from fun. He didn't have fun. He didn't... D- d- do you get what I'm saying? Yeah. So he's like, "I need to teach you how to survive." And I was thinking, man, it's so crazy how that becomes the thing that sort of w- we lose out on. This, the way I was thinking of it was I was going, we always have to be careful, especially for the next generation. If you have the, if you have the luxury of being the next generation that can move forward- Yeah.

Mm-hmm

... I think it's very crucial to remember in life that you are trying to survive. But on the other side of survival, you need to remember all the luxuries you couldn't include in survival, because those are the things that make surviving worthwhile.

Yeah.

Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Yeah. You wanna win the war, but you wanna win it so that you come back to your friends and family and laugh. If you can't come back and laugh and enjoy- Enjoy the spoils of war ... that's exactly it. Mm. Because otherwise, what was it for?

There's-

Like, what were you actually fighting for as, as an idea or as a, d- do you get what I'm saying?

Yeah, it's like the whole point of it was for my son to be able to be relaxed and not have to think about-

Exactly

... a million different things. But how do you prepare someone for the world while also giving them agency to still be a child and making sure that there's a, that there's a balance in that, which is why I try to let him laugh with me.

Mm.

Crack a joke. You have, the, the one thing, and this is more from my mom, he, he, he always has freedom of opinion. You can share it respectfully, but, like, all of that be quiet and stay in your... No. You think this, so? Tell me why. Break it down. Get, like-

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Give me the logic of it. I still might not agree with you, but w- we can have... Don't ever be afraid to bring something to me.

was-

Command

... it could be something as silly as that.

Yeah.

I talk to you-

No, that's, but that's what I mean

... as if you're a AI robot.

Yeah, but that's what I mean.

So funny, yeah. I, I, I think that the only, the only piece of rage I really felt, like, if it's about anger, because the other thing with Finding Your Roots was that I also found out when my dad lost his dad at age four, per census data, there was no other male head of household-

Mm

... in his life-

Oh, wow

... ever again.

Hmm.

So as far as I know, it was just him and his mom.

Wow.

And if there was a man- They wasn't on the papers

Yeah, he was not official

He wasn't official. So that means at best you in some fleeting stepdaddy-

Mm-hmm

... Mr. Johnny come over from time to time and give you a nickel, but not like a solid-

No advice

... head of household.

No quality time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so my pops grew up, you know, when his pops died when he was four, they left Atlanta and went to Chicago. So you growing up, you know, you growing up in Chicago during the boom, and then-

Often different

... then civil, civil rights and, you know, and then you off to covering Vietnam, and every riot, and every race war you can name as a journalist. So this idea of, yeah, you can be mad, but this all has to be looked at strictly through the lens of what did I learn, and what do I hope for the boy to learn-

Mm

I had to quit working with an... I had to fire an employee, bro, and it hurt my heart, but I had to do it, and I'm here to tell you about it so you can understand the fragility of friendship.

Hmm.

That's what you hope the long run is from a conversation like that. So, you know, you, you just, you don't know i- how it's gonna all connect in the long run.

Mm.

But, you know, I just, I just share everything. I, I just share as much as I can. And yeah, a lot of it does come back to being a good dad, but I think it's just also about having this story of, you know... I, I also don't wanna get too obsessed with changing my behavior solely to influence-

Yeah

... his growth-

Yeah

... because then I'm not being me.

Yourself, yeah. Mm-hmm.

You know, I took him... So when I left Daily Show, I took him with me to, uh, clean out my office.

Yeah, yeah. You wrote about that.

'Cause he needs to understand that none, none of these jobs are forever. None of this stuff is forever. So-

Do you think he understood that?

Not yet.

Yeah.

But I've taken him by CNN, and he's come there and understood that.

Yeah.

And he's, he's old enough now to understand the idea of this show and this show-

Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

... and how it all connects. He's Googled me once. [laughs] Some- And so, you know, like, there's... He's aware of what I do, but trying to take that, trying to take that veneer off of what fame and stardom and all of that-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... because he has no perspective on that-

Yeah

... of course.

Kids don't care.

Yeah, but-

Yeah, they really don't

... but one day he'll figure out who Kai Cenat is. He'll be like, "Daddy, you ain't famous for shit." [laughs]

[laughs]

can be sometimes.

[laughs]

You know? And what I mean by it is this, like, we, we'll all talk about, especially in, in the age that we're in now, everyone will go, "You know, my family did this, and I'm gonna be the one who doesn't do it, and my dad was like this, and I'm not gonna be that, and my mom was like this, and I'm not gonna be that, and I will be the one, and I will be the one." And the great irony of it is you'll end up being the one-

Mm

... just from a different place.

Yeah.