Trevor Noah: Turkey’s World Cup Disaster & Ronaldo’s Portugal Drama | WORLD CUP Second Week

Trevor Noah 0:00 This episode is proudly sponsored by Mazda, Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. Mazda stands for more of what matters most to you. Visit mazdausa.com to learn more. [upbeat music] This is What Now? With Trevor Noah. All right, well-

Joe 0:23 Mm

Trevor Noah 0:23 ... welcome to Week Two of the World Cup.

Joe 0:25 Mm-hmm. Yeah, we c- I can believe 'cause it feels like, one, we've watched so much football. It feels like week four, but then again, time rushes when you're having fun, so it doesn't feel like Week Two yet. It's like a we- I, I know it sounds like a weird contradiction, but it feels like we've watched four weeks worth of football, but then it doesn't feel like we've reached Week Two yet.

Trevor Noah 0:47 I think it feels like that because, yes, we've watched probably more games per capita than ever in our lives.

Joe 0:54 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 0:55 But because we haven't moved in the group stages-

Joe 0:58 Yes

Trevor Noah 0:58 ... it doesn't feel like the-

Joe 0:59 Yes

Trevor Noah 0:59 ... tournament has moved, in a good way.

Joe 1:01 Yes, yes, yes. Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:01 So it feels like it's still exciting. It's, it feels like it's still new. It feels like it's... But, but, you know, before we even get into the results, I, I noticed something about the World Cup.

Joe 1:10 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:11 And I don't know if you'll agree with this or disagree.

Joe 1:13 Okay. Probably disagree, but [laughs] on principle, but okay. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:16 The World Cup-

Joe 1:17 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:18 ... is a lot like New Year's Eve.

Joe 1:21 Okay. In which it's-

Trevor Noah 1:21 Everyone talks trash about it in the buildup.

Joe 1:24 Mm. Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:24 Everyone says they don't care. Everyone says they don't, they're not gonna make plans. They're not gonna participate. Ask somebody what their plans are for New Year's Eve, they'll be like, "Ah, is that even a thing anymore?"

Joe 1:33 Mm. Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 1:34 "A New Year's Eve, I'll probably just sleep."

Joe 1:36 Mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 1:36 "I don't even care what's happening. I'm not into it." A-

Joe 1:39 [laughs] Yes

Trevor Noah 1:39 ... the day the clock strikes 12:00-

Joe 1:42 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:42 ... and it's the 31st now-

Joe 1:43 Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm

Trevor Noah 1:44 ... then you start getting the texts.

Joe 1:46 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:46 "Hey, what's happening? Have you heard of anything?"

Joe 1:48 Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 1:48 "Are you going anywhere?"

Joe 1:49 Where's the party at?

Trevor Noah 1:50 "Maybe we should go to a party."

Joe 1:51 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:51 And then when it gets close to 12:00, it's on, and once it's on, all you're left with is

Trevor Noah 2:00 joy and regret. I feel like-

Joe 2:01 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 2:02 ... the World Cup does that.

Joe 2:03 Yeah. [laughs] Yeah.

Trevor Noah 2:03 No, because-

Joe 2:04 Mm

Trevor Noah 2:04 ... I was, I was thinking about this. Every single World Cup-

Joe 2:08 Mm

Trevor Noah 2:08 ... starts with a scandal.

Joe 2:10 Mm-hmm. Or multiple scandals.

Trevor Noah 2:12 And-

Joe 2:13 Mm

Trevor Noah 2:13 ... by week two, people can only talk about the World Cup. So go South Africa-

Joe 2:18 Mm, mm, mm, mm

Trevor Noah 2:19 ... 2010. Everybody was saying, "Can this country host a World Cup?"

Joe 2:22 Mm.

Trevor Noah 2:22 "Is Africa ready?"

Joe 2:23 Crime rates going bad, yes.

Trevor Noah 2:23 "There's too much crime in South Africa."

Joe 2:25 Mm.

Trevor Noah 2:25 "They don't have the infrastructure."

Joe 2:27 Mm.

Trevor Noah 2:27 "It's gonna be a bad World Cup."

Joe 2:28 Mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 2:28 "It's not gonna go." World Cup started. Week Two-

Joe 2:31 Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm

Trevor Noah 2:32 ... all we knew was football.

Joe 2:33 Actually, the moment Tshabalala scored that goal-

Trevor Noah 2:36 Finished

Joe 2:37 ... everything shifted. Yes.

Trevor Noah 2:38 Finished.

Joe 2:38 Mm.

Trevor Noah 2:39 Qatar.

Joe 2:39 Mm.

Trevor Noah 2:40 Oh, no.

Joe 2:41 Before that, Russia.

Trevor Noah 2:42 Oh, yeah, Russia.

Joe 2:43 Oof.

Trevor Noah 2:43 Russia was before that. People were like, "Oh, no."

Joe 2:44 Brazil as well.

Trevor Noah 2:45 Uh-

Joe 2:46 2014, yes

Trevor Noah 2:46 ... Brazil, they were like, "Oh, no, the, the infrastructure, things are not gonna work." It's the-

Joe 2:50 The favelas and this and yeah. Mm

Trevor Noah 2:51 ... you name it. Russia.

Joe 2:53 Mm.

Trevor Noah 2:53 People were like, "Oh, the visas are gonna be a disaster."

Joe 2:55 Mm.

Trevor Noah 2:55 "Russia's not gonna let people in."

Joe 2:57 Should Russia even be hosting the World Cup?

Trevor Noah 2:59 Should Russia even be hosting a-

Joe 2:59 Mm, mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 2:59 Yo, World Cup came.

Joe 3:00 Mm.

Trevor Noah 3:02 People were just like, "It's World Cup time." We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll get back to that later.

Joe 3:05 Yes, yes, yes. Mm.

Trevor Noah 3:06 Qatar was the same. US, week two. H- I don't know about you, maybe it's just my feed.

Joe 3:12 Mm.

Trevor Noah 3:13 Everything-

Joe 3:14 Mm

Trevor Noah 3:14 ... is World Cup now.

Joe 3:15 No, I'll say this, and that's, I think, the beauty and also the curse, in a funny way, of the World Cup because that's what gives FIFA so much power and so much leverage. They are in control, or they're the custodians of the thing that's so powerful-

Trevor Noah 3:30 Yeah

Joe 3:30 ... that can shift narratives. So the World Cup, when you talk about Qatar, like, before it happened, some people were gonna talk even going to boycott it.

Trevor Noah 3:40 Yeah. I mean, the Eng- English media-

Joe 3:41 We're not going to Qatar

Trevor Noah 3:41 ... English media was essentially-

Joe 3:42 Yes

Trevor Noah 3:42 ... threatening to boycott Qatar.

Joe 3:44 We're not going to Qatar. But then the moment, the moment the ball is kicked-

Trevor Noah 3:48 You, you know what it is?

Joe 3:49 Yes.

Trevor Noah 3:49 Actually, before the ball is kicked-

Joe 3:50 Mm

Trevor Noah 3:50 ... once people see David Beckham-

Joe 3:52 Yes. Yes

Trevor Noah 3:53 ... they change, they change all their geopolitical views.

Joe 3:55 Yes. But it's, it's funny that you compare this-

Trevor Noah 3:56 I, in fact, I think it's like any party.

Joe 3:58 Mm.

Trevor Noah 3:59 You can say what you want about a party. If David Beckham walks in-

Joe 4:01 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, you know, let's turn up

Trevor Noah 4:02 ... all of a sudden the party's changed.

Joe 4:03 Yeah, let's turn up. Yes. No, but, like, it's, uh, I, as, as I was saying, it's the great power of this beautiful game, and FIFA, funny enough, has done so much to disfigure the face-

Trevor Noah 4:17 Yeah

Joe 4:17 ... of the beautiful game. But because the game is so popular, and once it starts, everything is out of the window. So the US, people are going about, you know, what, e- everything that's wrong with the US.

Trevor Noah 4:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe 4:29 Then the moment the game started, now everyone's just talking about the games. People are discovering different sides of America 'cause they want to, they're going to, they're getting to meet real Americans as opposed to Americans being represented by their government. It's-

Trevor Noah 4:41 Can I, can I say, that's something that has truly made me realize how powerful the World Cup is. I've always known that the World Cup has the power-

Joe 4:52 Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 4:53 ... to, um, introduce, you know, people from all over the world to a nation-

Joe 4:58 Yeah, mm

Trevor Noah 4:59 ... that they may have had a one-sided opinion of-

Joe 5:02 Mm

Trevor Noah 5:02 ... or, like, a one-dimensional opinion of, rather.

Joe 5:04 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 5:05 I didn't think the same would hold true for America.

Joe 5:07 Oh.

Trevor Noah 5:08 And yet-

Joe 5:09 Mm

Trevor Noah 5:09 ... if you've been online-

Joe 5:11 Mm

Trevor Noah 5:12 ... the fan experiences of the World Cup, and the fan experiences of America, funny enough-

Joe 5:17 Mm, mm, mm, mm

Trevor Noah 5:18 ... uh, there's the German guy, Freddy, I think his name is.

Joe 5:21 Oh, who is going out. Yes.

Trevor Noah 5:22 He's become, like, the most-

Joe 5:24 Yeah

Trevor Noah 5:24 ... adored fan in America now.

Joe 5:25 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 5:26 Freddy, um, is a German guy who's just in America, who's just having a great time, just loving everything about America.

Joe 5:33 Mm.

Trevor Noah 5:34 Meeting people, shocked at how friendly they are, discovering how big the portions are, enjoying, like, the, like the-

Joe 5:40 All the things we love about America

Trevor Noah 5:41 ... yeah, giant trucks-

Joe 5:42 Yes. Mm

Trevor Noah 5:42 ... giant cars, giant worlds, giant supermarkets. He's gotten so popular, I think he got an invite to the White House. They, um, he was on a flight that was delayed, and he was gonna miss a game, and then Airlines just stepped in, and they were like-

Joe 5:56 Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm

Trevor Noah 5:56 ... "No, Freddy, we got you. We're gonna get you on another flight. We're gonna..." That's when I was like, "Okay, this is power." When, when an airline in America-

Joe 6:03 Mm, mm, mm, yes

Trevor Noah 6:03 ... is actually trying to help people-

Joe 6:04 To help a customer, yes. No, but also I agree with you because America, unlike other countries- Has been overexposed. We watch it in pop culture, watch it in movies, we wa- watch it in music videos

Trevor Noah 6:15 Yeah, yeah

Joe 6:16 So you would think there would be nothing to discover. Qatar, you've never heard anything about it, so when the World Cup goes there, there's a chance to discover a side of Qatar that you haven't seen before. But America-

Trevor Noah 6:26 I didn't think that for America, yeah

Joe 6:27 ... people are familiar with America.

Trevor Noah 6:28 I honestly didn't think that for America.

Joe 6:30 And then, yes. Like, the people in Lawrence, Kansas-

Trevor Noah 6:33 Yeah

Joe 6:34 ... they are, like, funny, weird meet cute-

Trevor Noah 6:37 Yep

Joe 6:37 ... with, uh, Algeria.

Trevor Noah 6:39 Yeah, yeah.

Joe 6:39 And then this romance that has gone on and on and on and, you know, you would think of-

Trevor Noah 6:43 Scot- Scottish fans have drunk Boston dry

Joe 6:45 ... oh my God, yes. You never thought that would happen. You never thought-

Trevor Noah 6:48 I didn't think it was-

Joe 6:50 ... Boston would go like-

Trevor Noah 6:51 I didn't think it was possible

Joe 6:51 ... Boston would go like, "There's not enough alcohol-

Trevor Noah 6:52 Yeah

Joe 6:53 ... in Boston." Yeah, they would-

Trevor Noah 6:53 I genuinely didn't think it was possible

Joe 6:55 ... yes. The buzz, you know, but I think also, like, if you combine Scottish people with Irish people, 'cause then the Irish people in Boston were-

Trevor Noah 7:02 You're not wrong, actually

Joe 7:02 ... drinking the bars dry, and then the Scot- No, it's, it's been beautiful. It's, um, it's why normally they go like, "Oh, you can use the World Cup to sports wash or sports launder your image." And that's why I think every time-

Trevor Noah 7:16 But, okay, but this is, okay, let's, let's, so let's get into this. Is it sports washing?

Joe 7:21 Mm.

Trevor Noah 7:22 Or, or rather, let's, let's, let's ask the question this way, 'cause people will say the World Cup is sports washing.

Joe 7:27 Yes.

Trevor Noah 7:28 You use a major world tournament-

Joe 7:30 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 7:30 ... to-

Joe 7:31 Show a side of your, yes

Trevor Noah 7:32 ... you know, yeah, to, to, to, to lighten or brighten-

Joe 7:35 Mm

Trevor Noah 7:35 ... the image of your country in the world-

Joe 7:36 Mm

Trevor Noah 7:36 ... despite what's going on.

Joe 7:37 Mm.

Trevor Noah 7:38 But then there's a part of me that goes, i- is it sports washing, or is it, is it maybe doing, not the opposite necessarily, but, like, those Americans who are experiencing, or rather those Europeans-

Joe 7:50 Mm

Trevor Noah 7:50 ... and those Africans and those, you know-

Joe 7:53 Very few Africans

Trevor Noah 7:53 ... South Americans and the-

Joe 7:54 And very few South Africans, yes

Trevor Noah 7:55 ... very few Africans. You're not wrong. You're not wrong, actually.

Joe 7:57 Mm.

Trevor Noah 7:57 Yeah, way more Europeans.

Joe 7:58 Mm.

Trevor Noah 7:58 But they are experiencing America in a way that they wouldn't have otherwise, and I think America's also experiencing them-

Joe 8:04 Them, yes

Trevor Noah 8:04 ... in a way that they wouldn't have otherwise.

Joe 8:05 Mm.

Trevor Noah 8:05 Like, the effect that the Norwegian fans have had on Americans, for the first time-

Joe 8:10 Mm

Trevor Noah 8:11 ... in my life, I've seen team USA people trying to come up with actual chants for their teams.

Joe 8:15 Yes. Apart from, "We, we, we, we shall win."

Trevor Noah 8:18 Yeah.

Joe 8:18 "We believe that we shall, yes, yes."

Trevor Noah 8:20 "I believe that we shall win."

Joe 8:21 They see the choreography.

Trevor Noah 8:21 "I believe that we-

Joe 8:22 Yes.

Trevor Noah 8:22 That is terrible.

Joe 8:23 Yes. They see the choreography from Europe.

Trevor Noah 8:24 That's objectively terrible.

Joe 8:25 Mm.

Trevor Noah 8:26 Or just, "USA."

Joe 8:27 Mm.

Trevor Noah 8:27 "USA." That's fine for, like, three minutes.

Joe 8:30 Yes. [laughs] You can't chant it for an entire game, yes.

Trevor Noah 8:32 90 minutes.

Joe 8:33 "Defense."

Trevor Noah 8:34 Come on, man.

Joe 8:35 "Defense."

Trevor Noah 8:35 Come on.

Joe 8:35 Yeah, you need a few-

Trevor Noah 8:36 Come on, come on, come on

Joe 8:37 ... what do you, yeah, uniforms.

Trevor Noah 8:37 I still say if you have to tell the team what their job is-

Joe 8:40 To remind them

Trevor Noah 8:41 ... come on.

Joe 8:41 Yes.

Trevor Noah 8:42 Like, football fans, you just get to sing and, like, reminisce about the beauty of your team and its legacy.

Joe 8:48 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 8:48 You get to sing joyous songs.

Joe 8:49 All right, let's-

Trevor Noah 8:50 Meanwhile-

Joe 8:50 You make, you make it seem like [laughs]

Trevor Noah 8:51 ... in American sports you have to, like, literally tell the people-

Joe 8:53 Remind them

Trevor Noah 8:53 ... what to do.

Joe 8:54 Yes, like-

Trevor Noah 8:54 "This is the part where you defend. This is the part where you defend. This is the part where you defend."

Joe 8:59 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 8:59 You know what I mean?

Joe 9:00 You make it seem like Amer-

Trevor Noah 9:01 What are, what are you doing?

Joe 9:01 You make it seem like American athletes are like goldfishes. Their memory-

Trevor Noah 9:04 No, but they're not

Joe 9:05 ... can only last-

Trevor Noah 9:05 I'm saying the chants.

Joe 9:06 Yes, yes.

Trevor Noah 9:06 The chants are terrible.

Joe 9:07 Mm. No, like the, oh, the-

Trevor Noah 9:08 So I think, I think-

Joe 9:09 ... the whole, yeah, choreography, yes

Trevor Noah 9:10 ... so I understand, yes. I'm not, I'm not saying the sports washing isn't a thing, but I, I, I'm often torn because we live in a world where people say we as humans need to spend more time getting to know each other-

Joe 9:21 Yes, yes, mm

Trevor Noah 9:21 ... so that we form opinions of each other-

Joe 9:22 Mm, mm, mm, mm

Trevor Noah 9:23 ... and places and ideas.

Joe 9:24 Objectively opinions, yes. Mm.

Trevor Noah 9:24 Let's, let's become less rigid.

Joe 9:26 Mm.

Trevor Noah 9:27 And then when we have events that do that, we then say the events shouldn't happen because-

Joe 9:33 I think it's because of-

Trevor Noah 9:34 'Cause wh- 'cause when else would it happen?

Joe 9:35 No, I think it's because-

Trevor Noah 9:36 When else would, when, when else would thousands of Norwegians-

Joe 9:39 Yes

Trevor Noah 9:39 ... be influencing Americans? When else would thousands of Scottish people be influencing-

Joe 9:43 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 9:43 Look at, look at, and not just in America.

Joe 9:45 Mm.

Trevor Noah 9:45 Look at, uh, the love, the new romance between Korea and Mexico.

Joe 9:50 Oh, that's beautiful.

Trevor Noah 9:50 Have you seen the Korean and Mexican fans?

Joe 9:51 Yes, that's beautiful. Yes. That's beau- I'll say-

Trevor Noah 9:53 There are gonna be so many Korean-

Joe 9:55 I'll say-

Trevor Noah 9:55 ... Mexican babies born next year.

Joe 9:57 I'll say funny that you talk about the impact, the external impact on the insiders, and then the insider impact on the, on, on the outsiders.

Trevor Noah 10:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe 10:04 'Cause when we went to Qatar, remember we were having a conversation with one of the top guys in the organizing committee, and he told us Qatar actually didn't want the World Cup. The people of Qatar-

Trevor Noah 10:14 Yeah

Joe 10:14 ... didn't want the World Cup because they thought all these foreigners were coming in. They had only seen videos-

Trevor Noah 10:18 Yeah

Joe 10:18 ... of English hooligans-

Trevor Noah 10:20 Oh, yeah, that's true.

Joe 10:20 And they went-

Trevor Noah 10:20 Yeah, that's true

Joe 10:21 ... "All these animals are coming into Qatar. They're going to rape our women."

Trevor Noah 10:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe 10:24 "They're going to vandalize our buildings."

Trevor Noah 10:26 Yeah.

Joe 10:27 And then people came over, and then I remember he told me distinctively that he remembered the turning point was when Qataris were turning up and actually giving fans water. 'Cause Qataris realized, oh, not all foreigners are English hooligans.

Trevor Noah 10:41 Yeah.

Joe 10:41 And then foreigners also realized not all Qataris think the same as their government.

Trevor Noah 10:47 Yeah.

Joe 10:47 They don't think LGBTQ people should be executed. They don't think all these things that we were told.

Trevor Noah 10:51 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe 10:52 Or they don't think that immigrants should be sa- Like, so that's very interesting. But the reason I think people talk about sports washing is when you look at the countries that normally vie to host the World Cup, they're countries in need of a reputational cleanup. So for example, Russia, they just invaded Crimea when they got the World Cup. Uh-

Trevor Noah 11:13 Yeah, but they, I'm not saying that's not true.

Joe 11:15 Mm.

Trevor Noah 11:15 But they had to bid for the World Cup long before they-

Joe 11:18 Yeah, no, no

Trevor Noah 11:18 ... invaded Crimea.

Joe 11:19 No, but, but I'm saying when the World Cup came, it helped their image. They went from, "Oh, Russia, not a candidate for neighbor of the year."

Trevor Noah 11:26 [laughs]

Joe 11:26 To, "Oh, Russia, it's possible. They are not as cold as they seem." I'll say-

Trevor Noah 11:32 Uh

Joe 11:32 ... look at, look at Qatar. Okay, so now it was Russia, Qatar, the US, then it's going to be M- Morocco, Spain, and then it's going to be Saudi Arabia, and I think logically the next stop should be North Korea.

Trevor Noah 11:44 Man, a Nor-

Joe 11:44 'Cause we would be like, "Oh."

Trevor Noah 11:45 North Korean World Cup-

Joe 11:46 Yes

Trevor Noah 11:46 ... would be something.

Joe 11:47 We would be like, "Oh, we didn't-"

Trevor Noah 11:48 Did you see, by the way-

Joe 11:49 Dennis Rodman was right all along.

Trevor Noah 11:50 By the way, did you see, uh, there was, um, there was a piece that I was reading, or I saw something online. It's funny you brought up North Korea. Apparently, North Korea's experienced, like, a boom over the past few years.

Joe 12:02 Yes.

Trevor Noah 12:02 Like a major... And please don't get me wrong, this is, this is-

Joe 12:06 Relative

Trevor Noah 12:07 ... relative-

Joe 12:07 Yes

Trevor Noah 12:07 ... to itself-

Joe 12:08 Mm

Trevor Noah 12:08 ... because North Korea is still, like-

Joe 12:09 Mm

Trevor Noah 12:09 ... extremely underdeveloped.

Joe 12:10 Mm.

Trevor Noah 12:10 There's a lot of, uh, poverty in it. But apparently they've really been doing well, ironically because of the wars that are being fought.

Joe 12:16 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 12:17 People forget how many, um, how, how much-

Joe 12:19 Armaments

Trevor Noah 12:19 ... how much money they make from arms-

Joe 12:20 Yeah, yes. Yeah, yes

Trevor Noah 12:21 ... and from troops-

Joe 12:22 And also training and, yeah. Mm.

Trevor Noah 12:22 And from, yeah. But apparently-

Joe 12:24 Mm

Trevor Noah 12:24 ... so you never know. Maybe North Korea-

Joe 12:25 I saw-

Trevor Noah 12:25 ... could be. But okay, but this just-

Joe 12:26 I saw, no, I saw this video, 'cause you're talking about North Korea.

Trevor Noah 12:28 Yeah.

Joe 12:28 I saw this video that was showing how North Korea has changed, has developed, and they're just using a parking lot, and you could see the number of cars.

Trevor Noah 12:37 Yeah.

Joe 12:38 Getting the-

Trevor Noah 12:38 The technology even

Joe 12:39 ... yes, the technology. Yes.

Trevor Noah 12:40 No, the technology.

Joe 12:40 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 12:40 Like, but, but this is what I mean.

Joe 12:42 Mm.

Trevor Noah 12:43 As much as people say you should keep a state-

Joe 12:46 Mm

Trevor Noah 12:46 ... a pariah-

Joe 12:47 Yes

Trevor Noah 12:47 ... to punish them-

Joe 12:48 I see where you're getting. Yes, mm

Trevor Noah 12:48 ... for their actions, I sometimes wonder if the opposite isn't more true. Can you keep a state a pariah if you bring them into the fold?

Joe 12:58 That's FIFA's argument. FIFA's argument always is you can bring the, football can help bring a country into the international fold.

Trevor Noah 13:06 Right.

Joe 13:07 So, like, when outsiders go to Qatar-

Trevor Noah 13:11 Mm-hmm

Joe 13:12 ... Qatar, just by that interaction alone-

Trevor Noah 13:14 Yeah

Joe 13:14 ... it's almost like, you know, when you hear about Europeans going and meeting these uncontacted tribes-

Trevor Noah 13:19 Yeah

Joe 13:19 ... in the Amazon?

Trevor Noah 13:19 Yeah.

Joe 13:20 Just the interaction alone has, like, benefits to opening up-

Trevor Noah 13:25 Yeah

Joe 13:25 ... the way the uncontacted tribe-

Trevor Noah 13:26 I don't, I don't think you can, I don't think you can start diplomacy without diplomats.

Joe 13:30 That's a very good... Yeah, that's, that's FIFA's argument every time. When we take football to these places, those places are always almost like it's an eye-opening moment for them.

Trevor Noah 13:37 Yeah, but even, even not even taking it to the places, look what the World Cup has done. How many people in the world knew Cape Verde was even a thing before the World Cup?

Joe 13:46 Curaçao.

Trevor Noah 13:46 How many people knew Curaçao was even a thing?

Joe 13:47 Mm.

Trevor Noah 13:47 Speaking to you now, Curaçao has a point.

Joe 13:50 Mm.

Trevor Noah 13:51 They have a point at the World Cup.

Joe 13:52 They have a point. Yes, yes.

Trevor Noah 13:53 You know what I'm saying?

Joe 13:53 Yes.

Trevor Noah 13:54 And they got that point against Ecuador, a team that did extremely well-

Joe 13:57 Yes. Yeah, yeah

Trevor Noah 13:57 ... in the-

Joe 13:58 Golden generation

Trevor Noah 13:58 ... in the qualifying.

Joe 13:59 Yeah, golden generation as well of Ecuador.

Trevor Noah 14:00 Like, so for Curaçao-

Joe 14:01 They scored for, for, for, for, for, for, like, a heartbeat there. They were toe-to-toe with Germany.

Trevor Noah 14:07 And for them-

Joe 14:07 Yes

Trevor Noah 14:07 ... it was a win.

Joe 14:08 No, no, it was a win. But then again, as you see, Cape Verde, their goalkeeper going from what? A few hundred followers to-

Trevor Noah 14:14 Thousands

Joe 14:14 ... 9.4 million. 11.

Trevor Noah 14:16 Yeah.

Joe 14:16 It shows, yeah, it shows that power of the World Cup. But again, man, you know, I can see what the activists are talking about, 'cause the government will always use... Because anytime you give something as powerful as the World Cup to a power-hungry maniac, they'll always abuse it. But as you're saying also, once, once it brings people together, 'cause if you look at the people, the people who love the beautiful game, or in the case of America-

Trevor Noah 14:41 Yeah

Joe 14:41 ... the people who didn't love but now have fallen in love because they're seeing Norwegians choreographing this Viking rowing thing, or they're seeing, like, Scottish people just having-

Trevor Noah 14:50 Yeah, man

Joe 14:51 ... the pits.

Trevor Noah 14:51 I think, I think, I think it's... Look, I, I think both arguments have merit.

Joe 14:55 Mm.

Trevor Noah 14:56 But I think we shouldn't take for granted the lasting legacy-

Joe 14:59 Yes

Trevor Noah 14:59 ... and the impact this will leave of just bringing humans together. W- w- we live in a world where so many people form their opinions based on, you know-

Joe 15:08 Maybe click bait. Yeah. Mm

Trevor Noah 15:09 ... digital, yeah, digital information.

Joe 15:11 Mm.

Trevor Noah 15:11 How many people can say their opinions of others are formed by an actual experience? That's all I'm saying. You know? So I'm, I'm loving-

Joe 15:18 Mm

Trevor Noah 15:18 ... that part of it. Like, I actually

Trevor Noah 15:20 love how for the World Cup, the scandals go away from geopolitics-

Joe 15:26 Mm. Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm

Trevor Noah 15:26 ... and they just go to the pitch.

Joe 15:27 Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 15:28 You know?

Joe 15:28 Mm.

Trevor Noah 15:28 'Cause now, like, the scandals are all on the pitch.

Joe 15:30 Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 15:31 I would say the biggest scandal at the World Cup now o- over this past week, Türkiye.

Joe 15:35 Oh.

Trevor Noah 15:37 The Turkish team-

Joe 15:38 Yes

Trevor Noah 15:39 ... came in. It's-

Joe 15:40 Yes.

Trevor Noah 15:41 If you think about it-

Joe 15:41 Yes

Trevor Noah 15:41 ... like, the Turkish team came into this World Cup-

Joe 15:43 Yes

Trevor Noah 15:43 ... I don't know if you saw their send-off.

Joe 15:45 Mm.

Trevor Noah 15:45 Right? They got one of the biggest send-offs I've ever seen a country give their team.

Joe 15:48 I think I saw they were given mansions in one of the most exclusive, like, seaside resorts.

Trevor Noah 15:53 My friend.

Joe 15:53 Every player for just qualifying.

Trevor Noah 15:54 My friend.

Joe 15:55 Yes.

Trevor Noah 15:55 'Cause how many years has it been since Turkey was in?

Joe 15:57 It's just been, like, I think-

Trevor Noah 15:58 26 years or somewhere there?

Joe 15:59 Yeah, it's been a long time. I think the last time, wait, was it 2002?

Trevor Noah 16:02 It was, it-

Joe 16:03 Yes, when they made it to the semifinals

Trevor Noah 16:04 ... it's been a very long time.

Joe 16:05 Yes. Mm.

Trevor Noah 16:06 They were driven out of the city with the most-

Joe 16:08 Mm

Trevor Noah 16:08 ... beautiful... It looked like they were going to-

Joe 16:09 Mm

Trevor Noah 16:09 ... like, like a, like a war-

Joe 16:11 Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 16:11 ... but a, a good war in a way.

Joe 16:13 Mm. But that's what the World Cup feels like.

Trevor Noah 16:14 Yeah, they were like-

Joe 16:14 The World Cup, to go back to your point, the World Cup is the only time I feel, and the Olympics, but especially the World Cup, is the only time you're allowed to be xenophobic. Well-

Trevor Noah 16:22 [laughs]

Joe 16:22 ... or nationalistic.

Trevor Noah 16:23 Na- maybe not xenophobic, but nationalistic.

Joe 16:25 Nationalistic, yes.

Trevor Noah 16:25 Nationalistic, yes.

Joe 16:25 Where's, you're supposed, where you go like, "Yeah, I'm from Curaçao, and I'm going to shit talk Germany. We hate the Germans."

Trevor Noah 16:31 [laughs]

Joe 16:31 And everyone goes like, "Yeah, we agree. We hate the Germans." It's the only time you're allowed to be patriotically proud-

Trevor Noah 16:37 Yeah

Joe 16:37 ... without it having, like, the-

Trevor Noah 16:39 Yeah, no

Joe 16:39 ... negative undertones. Yes.

Trevor Noah 16:40 It's the one time Germans can fly their flag.

Joe 16:42 Oh, yes, proudly.

Trevor Noah 16:43 Yeah.

Joe 16:43 Proudly, yes.

Trevor Noah 16:44 This is the one time Germans can be like, "And now am I allowed to bring out my flag for this moment?" Yeah. This is-

Joe 16:49 And the Eng- and the English are like, "Yes, of course."

Trevor Noah 16:51 And the English are like, "Yeah, come on, come on." The French are like, "Yeah, yeah, you can do it, but just for the tournament."

Joe 16:55 Just for the World Cup, yes.

Trevor Noah 16:55 That's probably why Germany always does well in the World Cup, 'cause the longer they get to be in the World Cup, the longer Germans get to fly their flags, and they're just, they're like, "Yeah, this is so much fun."

Joe 17:03 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 17:03 "We're having a great time."

Joe 17:04 We get to do this once every four years.

Trevor Noah 17:05 Yeah. July 20th, put it away.

Joe 17:07 Mm.

Trevor Noah 17:07 Oh, okay.

Joe 17:07 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 17:08 We'll see you in four years. We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break. Well, let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor, Mazda, for today's episode. Safety has a new leader. You know what I've realized? Most people don't actually think about safety when everything's going right. Yeah. You only notice it afterwards at the end of a long drive when you still feel relaxed, when traffic gets chaotic, but you never feel overwhelmed, when something unexpected happens, and the car just feels composed. And I think that's what's interesting about Mazda's approach. Mazda has been named Consumer Report's safest new car brand. It starts with their approach. Mazda believes real safety begins with helping to protect you before problems even start, so you can feel more confident on every single drive. And I like that philosophy because good design shouldn't interrupt the experience. It should support it quietly. Mazda has more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick+ awards than any other brand as of April 2026. You don't believe me? Visit www.iihs.org to learn more. Go do it, and do it now. [upbeat music]

Joe 18:37 No, Turkiye. You are, you was talking about Turkiye. It's-

Trevor Noah 18:39 No, man, that, that, you look at it, team comes in-

Joe 18:42 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 18:44 ... that has one of the highest team values-

Joe 18:47 Yes

Trevor Noah 18:47 ... per capita.

Joe 18:48 Yes, yes, yes. Mm.

Trevor Noah 18:48 As in, like, the value of the players-

Joe 18:50 Yes, mm

Trevor Noah 18:50 ... where they play their football-

Joe 18:51 Mm

Trevor Noah 18:51 ... how they are seen in the world, how they r-

Joe 18:53 Two of the youngest-

Trevor Noah 18:54 How they're rated

Joe 18:54 ... two of the brightest young talents in world football, in-

Trevor Noah 18:57 Yeah

Joe 18:57 ... Kenan Yıldız and Arda Güler.

Trevor Noah 18:59 And Arda Güler.

Joe 18:59 Mm.

Trevor Noah 18:59 Yeah, Arda Güler and Kenan Yıldız.

Joe 19:01 And also the mixture of k- experience with Hakan, Hakan Çalhanoğlu.

Trevor Noah 19:04 Çalhanoğlu.

Joe 19:04 Yes.

Trevor Noah 19:05 Yeah.

Joe 19:05 Mm.

Trevor Noah 19:06 And you think of a team like that, everyone expected, everyone... Also, everyone was like, "Oh, their group is easy."

Joe 19:11 Mm, mm, mm, mm-mm, yes, yes.

Trevor Noah 19:12 So-

Joe 19:12 Mm

Trevor Noah 19:13 ... so every pundit expected them-

Joe 19:15 Mm

Trevor Noah 19:15 ... to cakewalk the thing.

Joe 19:16 Mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 19:17 Instead, they are now-

Joe 19:19 Out

Trevor Noah 19:19 ... confidently out of the World Cup.

Joe 19:21 Without a goal. Kurosawa's done better than them.

Trevor Noah 19:25 That's wild, man.

Joe 19:25 Mm-hmm. Haiti is doing better than, than, than them. Cape Verde is doing better than them. The thing is-

Trevor Noah 19:30 That's wild

Joe 19:30 ... I'm, I'm-

Trevor Noah 19:30 You, you do realize, you do realize, like, if you think about, like, their story, I was thinking about-

Joe 19:33 Mm

Trevor Noah 19:33 ... it was like Turkey is basically the reflecting pool of-

Joe 19:38 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 19:38 [laughs] ... of national teams right now.

Joe 19:41 The reflecting pool. The DC reflecting pool.

Trevor Noah 19:43 Yeah, the DC reflecting pool.

Joe 19:44 Okay. Okay, explain this. Elaborate. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 19:46 It was released to much fanfare.

Joe 19:48 Okay, yes.

Trevor Noah 19:49 There was a massive overhaul.

Joe 19:51 Yes.

Trevor Noah 19:51 Tons of money was pumped into it.

Joe 19:53 Yes. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 19:54 They made this grand announcement with extreme expectations.

Joe 19:57 [laughs] Yes.

Trevor Noah 19:57 And much sooner than people predicted, the paint started peeling off.

Joe 20:01 Things fell apart, yes.

Trevor Noah 20:02 And it fell apart-

Joe 20:03 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 20:03 ... and it became one of the biggest disasters we've ever seen. In, in a-

Joe 20:07 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 20:07 ... like, a space that really no one-

Joe 20:09 The reflecting pool, yes

Trevor Noah 20:10 ... it, it would've been one thing if they said, "Oh, the reflecting pool," after, like, two years.

Joe 20:14 It would-

Trevor Noah 20:14 It, it, it happened in a comically short amount of time.

Joe 20:17 It would be-

Trevor Noah 20:17 That's what happened with Turkey

Joe 20:18 ... it would be great if also Turkey had Abraham Lincoln just looking on very disappointed.

Trevor Noah 20:22 Just judging from his seat.

Joe 20:24 Mm. I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. [laughs] No, the thing is, I'll say this about Turkey, so I've had a chance, and probably you have, too. I've had a chance to visit Turkey, to visit Istanbul three times.

Trevor Noah 20:33 You have?

Joe 20:34 Yes.

Trevor Noah 20:34 Why is your hair still like this? [laughs]

Joe 20:36 And they went like, "We are miracle workers, but come on."

Trevor Noah 20:39 [laughs]

Joe 20:39 "We can't, we can only do so much." Even the Turkish doctors were like, "No."

Trevor Noah 20:42 This is within the realm-

Joe 20:43 Yes, yes, yes

Trevor Noah 20:43 ... it has to be within the realms of, like, science and-

Joe 20:45 Yes, yes

Trevor Noah 20:45 ... okay, okay.

Joe 20:45 We, yeah, we, we, yeah, we don't, we don't make wonders here. No, but the thing is, I've had a chance to visit Istanbul three times, on a cruise, by the way, and every time I visited Istanbul, I feel it's like the Brazil of Europe.

Trevor Noah 20:59 Huh.

Joe 21:00 The fans breathe, live, and sleep football. They have the three biggest clubs.

Trevor Noah 21:05 Galatasaray.

Joe 21:06 Galatasaray, Fenerbahçe, and Beşiktaş.

Trevor Noah 21:07 Yeah.

Joe 21:08 And the fans, they're very passionate people. Fiercely passionate. So I feel for them, 'cause this was very devastating. This is traumatic for them. They came in, they thought they would win, they got embarrassed. And if you've also had, like, we grew up watching European football. If you've had a chance to watch, like, those Turkish games-

Trevor Noah 21:24 Yeah

Joe 21:24 ... when, let's say, an English team-

Trevor Noah 21:25 Oh, it's massive

Joe 21:26 ... visits. Oh my God.

Trevor Noah 21:26 It's massive.

Joe 21:27 I remember Man United visiting, uh-

Trevor Noah 21:28 It's massive

Joe 21:29 ... visiting Galatasaray, uh, the Ali Sami Yen Stadium, and it's basically welcome to hell. That's what they call it.

Trevor Noah 21:34 Yep.

Joe 21:34 And when you would watch, like, teams go to the, you know, the way Fenerbahçe used to play, it was called the Sukru Saracoglu, those stadiums really feel like... I, I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even know how to describe them, 'cause an American wouldn't get it. They feel like you've entered... You know when they say the fan is the 12th man? It genuinely feels. It's like Anfield, but with, with flares.

Trevor Noah 21:56 But why didn't that translate into the World Cup?

Joe 21:58 No, so they have, and th- this is why. This is why.

Trevor Noah 22:01 No zero goals, Joe.

Joe 22:02 No, this is why. No, so this is why I feel for them, because the 2002 team was their golden generation before this golden generation. And if you remember that team, they had Hakan Şükür in front.

Trevor Noah 22:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe 22:10 They had Hasan Sas, Ümit Davala.

Trevor Noah 22:12 Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Joe 22:12 They had, like, Tugay and Emre-

Trevor Noah 22:14 Yes

Joe 22:14 ... and Arpa and, yes.

Trevor Noah 22:14 And my question to you is, what happened now?

Joe 22:16 So when they came in, they thought, I think they were shocked by their... Also, they don't have a, a natural number nine. I don't, I think they're struggling.

Trevor Noah 22:23 Yeah, but Joe, but Joe, we at a, we're at a stage where-

Joe 22:26 Mm

Trevor Noah 22:26 ... we're just asking about a singular goal.

Joe 22:29 No, I'll say this about the World Cup. Remember, every team that shows up at the World Cup, like, they're no pushovers at the World Cup. That might sound weird when you've seen some of the scorelines. But every team-

Trevor Noah 22:40 Yeah, but people, people forget that every team-

Joe 22:41 Yes, every team-

Trevor Noah 22:41 ... beats a bunch of teams to get here

Joe 22:42 ... yes.

Trevor Noah 22:42 Like, Italy-

Joe 22:43 Yes

Trevor Noah 22:43 ... is not in the World Cup.

Joe 22:45 Is not here because of Bosnia.

Trevor Noah 22:45 Yeah.

Joe 22:46 And Bosnia hasn't had, like, a good World Cup. But the thing is, every team at the World Cup is playing every game like it's a World Cup final. So when some people go like, "Oh, it's 48 teams, there are gonna be small teams," no, my friend, when Kurosawa is playing, that's the biggest game of their lives.

Trevor Noah 23:01 Yeah.

Joe 23:01 When Cape Verde is playing, that's their World Cup final. So-

Trevor Noah 23:04 Well, I think, I think maybe that's, that's something people forget, whether actively or, like, subconsciously or consciously.

Joe 23:10 Mm.

Trevor Noah 23:10 I think a lot of people forget how many teams are at the World Cup not because they were chosen-

Joe 23:18 Yes, yes

Trevor Noah 23:19 ... but because they won.

Joe 23:20 Yes, they won. They earned their place, yes.

Trevor Noah 23:21 Like, every team is here because they won.

Joe 23:22 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 23:23 But I think sometimes people make it seem like, "Oh, that's cute. They went and fetched Cape Verde."

Joe 23:26 Mm. Mm, mm, mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 23:27 "Oh, that's cute."

Joe 23:27 Mm.

Trevor Noah 23:27 They think it's like a Cinderella story, like America-

Joe 23:29 Azerbaijan

Joe 23:30 is here

Trevor Noah 23:30 ... yeah, like America's Got Talent or something.

Joe 23:31 Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 23:31 And it's like, no, no, no. This is a, this is, like, an active, active story. But, but this is, this is, this is why I think, like, Turkey's really gonna have to... It's, it, uh, there's gonna be a lot of, um, uh, what do they call it? There's gonna be a postmortem.

Joe 23:44 Yeah, so Vincenzo Montella, the coach, is certainly going to lose his job.

Trevor Noah 23:47 Yeah. It, it-

Joe 23:47 And I loved him as a player. Loved him as a player.

Trevor Noah 23:48 It's gonna be, it's gonna be, it's gonna be massive-

Joe 23:50 Yeah, mm

Trevor Noah 23:50 ... because here you have a team that maybe wasn't expected to win the whole thing-

Joe 23:56 Yes

Trevor Noah 23:56 ... by their fans.

Joe 23:57 Mm.

Trevor Noah 23:57 But the fans expected-

Joe 23:58 At least to make a run of some kind, yes

Trevor Noah 23:59 ... a late run, a late run.

Joe 24:00 Mm.

Trevor Noah 24:01 Because of the expected f- uh, uh, expanded format, by the way.

Joe 24:04 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yes.

Trevor Noah 24:04 Because of the expanded format, there's actually a high expectation on, on teams-

Joe 24:08 Mm

Trevor Noah 24:08 ... because there's eas- there are easier games.

Joe 24:10 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 24:10 There are easier moments in groups.

Joe 24:12 Also, you don't have just to finish second.

Trevor Noah 24:13 Exactly.

Joe 24:14 Yes. Mm.

Trevor Noah 24:14 You, there's eight third-place teams-

Joe 24:16 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 24:16 ... are gonna go through.

Joe 24:17 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 24:17 So their fans are saying, "Yeah, we didn't expect everything, but we s- we expected something." And then you've got that happening. And I find it interesting how I think a lot of the pressure is compounded by the fact that this is also the World Cup. It's like the Cinderella World Cup.

Joe 24:34 Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 24:35 So it would be one thing if Turkey was losing their games-

Joe 24:38 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 24:39 ... and that was that.

Joe 24:39 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 24:41 It's something else when you're a Turkish fan watching your team lose its games while Curaçao is-

Joe 24:46 Mm. Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 24:46 ... scoring-

Joe 24:47 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 24:47 ... against-

Joe 24:48 Mm

Trevor Noah 24:48 ... Germany-

Joe 24:49 Mm

Trevor Noah 24:49 ... while they're getting a draw against Ecuador-

Joe 24:51 Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 24:51 ... while Cape Verde is getting a draw against Spain-

Joe 24:54 Mm

Trevor Noah 24:54 ... while you're watching Japan go toe-to-toe with the Netherlands, thrashing Tunisia-

Joe 24:59 Mm

Trevor Noah 24:59 ... while you're watching, you're watching clubs, Team USA-

Joe 25:03 Mm. Also, the embarrassing w-

Trevor Noah 25:04 ... turning into Prime Barcelona

Joe 25:05 ... also the, the, I feel like the second game-

Trevor Noah 25:06 You know what I mean?

Joe 25:07 I feel the second game, uh, they lost was very embarrassing because, uh, Paraguay were reduced. Paraguay, first of all, had lost to the US badly.

Trevor Noah 25:15 Yeah.

Joe 25:15 So they went like, "Oh, this is a game we should be able to win." 'Cause y- you went like, okay, Australia, maybe Australia sucker punched them 'cause they dominated that game.

Trevor Noah 25:25 Yeah.

Joe 25:25 They created all the chances. So you went like, okay, that's a bad day at the office. You know, we got sucker punched. But w- if you watch Uruguay get dominated the way they were dominated by the US, you went like, "Oh, this should be a cakewalk for Turkey." They lose one-nil. Ur- uh, Paraguay plays most of the game 10 men because Miguel Almirón was sent off for that.

Trevor Noah 25:44 Yeah.

Joe 25:45 And still Turkey couldn't find a way.

Trevor Noah 25:47 By the way, do you think that should be a red card offense?

Joe 25:48 I think it should be. I think it should be. I think-

Trevor Noah 25:50 Why?

Joe 25:51 ... FIFA is saying you should say it with your chest.

Trevor Noah 25:53 I don't think it should be a red card.

Joe 25:54 Say, say it with your chest. No, 'cause when you do this-

Trevor Noah 25:56 I don't think it should be a red card

Joe 25:56 ... and you know where it comes from. It comes from Vini-

Trevor Noah 25:58 Yeah, but I don't think it should be a red card

Joe 25:59 ... and Cristiano.

Trevor Noah 26:00 Hmm?

Joe 26:00 No, I think it should be. I think it should be because when you say, 'cause-

Trevor Noah 26:02 I think it should be a yellow card. Okay, let me tell you why.

Joe 26:05 Okay.

Trevor Noah 26:06 For me, a red card, and, and I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll-

Joe 26:10 Mm

Trevor Noah 26:10 ... I'll preface this by saying I choose this because of when the rule was enforced.

Joe 26:17 Okay. Mm.

Trevor Noah 26:18 Whenever there's a new rule in football-

Joe 26:20 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 26:20 ... I think we shouldn't take for granted-

Joe 26:23 Oh

Trevor Noah 26:23 ... how reflexive so many actions are in, in the game.

Joe 26:26 I hear, yes. Yes. I hear where you're going. Yes. Yes.

Trevor Noah 26:26 Okay?

Joe 26:27 Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 26:28 Athletes all over the world-

Joe 26:29 Yes

Trevor Noah 26:30 ... have gotten very comfortable doing this. Even on the bench when they speak to each other.

Joe 26:34 Mm.

Trevor Noah 26:34 You know, they do this. Watch the New York Knicks-

Joe 26:36 Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 26:36 ... at the, at the victory parade.

Joe 26:37 Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 26:38 They're doing this the whole time.

Joe 26:39 Lip readers, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Trevor Noah 26:39 They're speaking to each other because they don't want their lips to be read.

Joe 26:42 Mm.

Trevor Noah 26:42 Okay?

Joe 26:42 Mm.

Trevor Noah 26:43 You, you get taught to do this. Put your hand in front of your mouth.

Joe 26:45 Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 26:45 Put your hand in front of your mouth. Now, it's a new rule-

Joe 26:48 Mm

Trevor Noah 26:49 ... that gets brought into the World Cup-

Joe 26:50 Mm

Trevor Noah 26:51 ... a few months before the World Cup.

Joe 26:52 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 26:52 Not like years before.

Joe 26:53 Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Trevor Noah 26:54 Right? So you don't get to, like, play it in the leagues.

Joe 26:55 Mm.

Trevor Noah 26:57 You get to the World Cup.

Joe 26:58 Mm.

Trevor Noah 26:59 There's a moment.

Joe 27:00 Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 27:01 You just do your default.

Joe 27:02 Instinctive, yes.

Trevor Noah 27:02 You put your hand.

Joe 27:02 Mm.

Trevor Noah 27:02 It's instinctive.

Joe 27:03 Mm.

Trevor Noah 27:03 Red card. I think it should be a yellow-

Joe 27:06 Mm

Trevor Noah 27:07 ... because the game itself, the game-

Joe 27:10 Mm

Trevor Noah 27:12 ... is disrupted so much by this decision-

Joe 27:15 Mm. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 27:16 ... that you should give a nation an opportunity to be like, oh, no, that person, like, you know what I mean?

Joe 27:21 Mm. Mm. Also, by the way, Miggy Almirón, one of the nicest guys in the game.

Trevor Noah 27:25 You also, you also don't-

Joe 27:26 I, I hate, I hate agreeing with you, but now that you put it like that, you're going to go, there should be an off-ramp. It should be, yes.

Trevor Noah 27:31 Because also, and no, no, it's fine.

Joe 27:33 No, no, I agree with you now.

Trevor Noah 27:34 You know what?

Joe 27:34 I agree with you.

Trevor Noah 27:34 Even, even if they said to the opponent-

Joe 27:35 Yes. I agree with you. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 27:36 ... what did he say to you?

Joe 27:36 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 27:36 Even if the opponent said, "No, no, no. He, he said something about my mother," or whatever.

Joe 27:39 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 27:39 Whatever. It's fine.

Joe 27:40 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 27:40 Yellow card.

Joe 27:41 Mm. Mm. No, I agree with you.

Trevor Noah 27:42 But-

Joe 27:42 Mm. I hate it, but I agree with you. Yes.

Trevor Noah 27:45 If the player says he said something racist-

Joe 27:46 Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 27:46 ... oh, then the ref can say red card.

Joe 27:48 No, 'cause that was, that was the origin of the rule.

Trevor Noah 27:50 Yes.

Joe 27:50 Vini said Presniani said something racist.

Trevor Noah 27:52 Yes.

Joe 27:52 Presniani said, "I didn't say anything racist."

Trevor Noah 27:54 And you can't prove it out.

Joe 27:54 The referee couldn't prove it because-

Trevor Noah 27:56 Yes

Joe 27:56 ... Presniani. But the thing is, where I agree with you, and I hate it, I hate it.

Trevor Noah 27:59 [laughs]

Joe 27:59 I hate this moment. Where I agree with you is the off-ramp. This was a decision, this was a rule created basically two, three months ago.

Trevor Noah 28:08 Yes.

Joe 28:09 And the players have been doing this their whole lives.

Trevor Noah 28:11 Yeah.

Joe 28:12 'Cause even Messi, when Messi scores a goal, he-

Trevor Noah 28:13 It's like taking your shirt off-

Joe 28:14 Yes

Trevor Noah 28:14 ... after you celebrate.

Joe 28:15 Yes. Yes.

Trevor Noah 28:16 You can't go to red card.

Joe 28:16 There should've, yes, there should have been an off-ramp.

Trevor Noah 28:18 You know what I mean? You can't go red card for time-wasting.

Joe 28:20 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 28:20 And I mean, now time-wasting is, like, more common.

Joe 28:22 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 28:22 People understand it.

Joe 28:22 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 28:23 But I think there are, there are certain things where we forget-

Joe 28:25 Mm

Trevor Noah 28:25 ... that it's just, like, part of the game.

Joe 28:27 Mm. It was a very reactive rule as well. It reacted to a particular incident because that incident involved a star player.

Trevor Noah 28:33 Do you remember when they said, um, only captains can speak to the referee?

Joe 28:37 Yes. Yes.

Trevor Noah 28:37 They made a new rule.

Joe 28:38 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 28:38 The players-

Joe 28:39 Mm

Trevor Noah 28:39 ... players can't swarm the ref. Only the captains can speak to the referee.

Joe 28:44 Players still [laughs]

Trevor Noah 28:46 Players still swarm the referee.

Joe 28:46 Still swarm the ref, yes.

Trevor Noah 28:47 And then they said, "We'll give you a yellow card for this."

Joe 28:50 Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 28:50 Imagine if they said red.

Joe 28:51 Oh. The other rule as well was you can't ask for a yellow card.

Trevor Noah 28:54 Yes.

Joe 28:54 And players, every time they are fouled-

Trevor Noah 28:56 Yeah. They would do this

Joe 28:57 ... they ask. Yes. And the referees-

Trevor Noah 28:57 And then they would get yellows.

Joe 28:59 Yes. Yes.

Trevor Noah 28:59 But then over time they stopped doing it.

Joe 29:01 Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 29:02 Except Vinicius.

Joe 29:03 Yes. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 29:03 They stopped doing it. And it, but imagine if it was-

Joe 29:06 Mm. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 29:06 ... guys, red cards are such-

Joe 29:07 It goes into such, yes. Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 29:08 A red card for me-

Joe 29:09 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 29:09 ... is such an egregious offense.

Joe 29:12 It changes the n- dynamic of the game, changes the complexion, conditions the whole game. The good thing for Paraguay is it didn't cost them ultimately.

Trevor Noah 29:18 And that's-

Joe 29:19 It didn't get-

Trevor Noah 29:19 Now imagine, now we're going back.

Joe 29:20 Yes.

Trevor Noah 29:20 Imagine if you're a Turkey fan going-

Joe 29:22 Yeah. Mm

Trevor Noah 29:22 ... we gave this, we got, these guys got a red card.

Joe 29:25 Mm. But now-

Trevor Noah 29:25 And-

Joe 29:25 But now I have a question for you. Turkey and Tunisia, who is having a worse World Cup?

Trevor Noah 29:30 Turkey.

Joe 29:31 Turkey?

Trevor Noah 29:32 Yeah, Turkey.

Joe 29:33 'Cause Tunisia fired their coach after losing five-nil.

Trevor Noah 29:36 Yeah.

Joe 29:36 And, and also they improved 'cause they lo- they lost four-nil.

Trevor Noah 29:39 [laughs]

Joe 29:39 But [laughs]

Trevor Noah 29:39 No, but Turkey.

Joe 29:40 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 29:40 Turkey's having a worse one 'cause Turkey had, uh, look at the team.

Joe 29:43 Mm.

Trevor Noah 29:43 Look at the team, look at the footballing heritage. Look at, they, they're in a moment. Turkey's having a worse one.

Joe 29:49 No, but I also-

Trevor Noah 29:50 You know who are spared actually the blush, is funny enough.

Joe 29:51 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 29:52 Um, I think Turkey would have wanted to do what many of the other clubs who had a shaky start did.

Joe 29:58 Oh, the teams. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. The-

Trevor Noah 30:00 So Brazil.

Joe 30:01 Mm-hmm. Oh, I see. Okay.

Trevor Noah 30:02 You know, like, Brazil came out and said, "We've seen every meme."

Joe 30:05 Mm.

Trevor Noah 30:05 "We've seen every critique. We've seen every pundit."

Joe 30:08 Mm.

Trevor Noah 30:09 Carlo Ancelotti switched out his front line.

Joe 30:11 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 30:11 Put Cunha in.

Joe 30:12 Mm.

Trevor Noah 30:13 Benched Igor Thiago.

Joe 30:14 Mm-hmm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 30:15 Said, "Okay, let's play this game. Let's get out there." And very quickly they were on top of the game.

Joe 30:19 It helps when you're playing Haiti, though, in your second game.

Trevor Noah 30:21 But, uh, we say that-

Joe 30:22 Mm. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 30:22 ... until you're drawing against Cape Verde.

Joe 30:24 I know. I know. You're, you're right. Yes. Yes.

Trevor Noah 30:25 You know what I mean?

Joe 30:26 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 30:27 And I think that's, that's the biggest thing I've noticed at this World Cup, is the big teams In this second week, especially the ones who didn't have a good, like-

Joe 30:36 Spain and [laughs]

Trevor Noah 30:37 Yeah

Joe 30:37 Yes.

Trevor Noah 30:38 Even Netherlands, et cetera.

Joe 30:39 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 30:39 They came out swinging now-

Joe 30:41 Mm. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 30:41 ... instead of, like, allowing the game to develop-

Joe 30:44 Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 30:44 ... and thinking. The Netherlands scored two goals in the first, like, 20 minutes of their game.

Joe 30:47 Yes. Yes. Mm.

Trevor Noah 30:48 Uh, uh-

Joe 30:49 Sweden turning Brian Brobbey into prime Klavert, and also Cody Gakpo into prime Ruud van Nistelrooy.

Trevor Noah 30:54 But that, but that game-

Joe 30:55 Mm

Trevor Noah 30:55 ... we'll, we'll talk about. That game should've ... Uh, who else, um-

Joe 30:58 Reflections, scholars are yes. Mm.

Trevor Noah 31:00 Scored. Brazil-

Joe 31:01 Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 31:01 ... scored their first two goals, how quick?

Joe 31:03 Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 31:03 Do you know what I mean?

Joe 31:03 Mm.

Trevor Noah 31:04 It's like, I think, I think a lot of the teams are realizing this isn't a league match. It can't have the pace of a league match.

Joe 31:09 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 31:10 You wanna get in, get your goals as quickly as possible-

Joe 31:12 Mm

Trevor Noah 31:12 ... and then get into the game. And, and Spain, you saw that in their game.

Joe 31:16 No.

Trevor Noah 31:16 Right?

Joe 31:17 Came out here, first two minutes.

Trevor Noah 31:18 First game-

Joe 31:18 Mm

Trevor Noah 31:18 ... they were like, "Oh, no. Let's build it up."

Joe 31:20 Let's feel it out. Yes.

Trevor Noah 31:20 Tika-taka.

Joe 31:21 Mm.

Trevor Noah 31:21 Let's feel the game. They're like, "No, this is not..." Because they forget that their opponents are so happy to get a draw.

Joe 31:26 Mm.

Trevor Noah 31:27 You know what I mean?

Joe 31:28 Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 31:28 You can. A draw is, is, is valuable at this World Cup.

Joe 31:30 For them, yes.

Trevor Noah 31:30 Especially when third place gets you through if you're in the, the top eight third teams.

Joe 31:34 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 31:34 You know? But now the teams came out. Brazil, guns blazing. Spain, guns blazing.

Joe 31:39 But I think also the thing with opening games, opening games are always very cagey affairs.

Trevor Noah 31:46 Mm. Mm.

Joe 31:46 'Cause no one wants ... No, I mean, like, when it's your first game in the World Cup, it's almost like-

Trevor Noah 31:51 Look at England. Look at England and look at France.

Joe 31:54 England were playing Croatia, though.

Trevor Noah 31:55 Yeah, but look at England and France.

Joe 31:56 The- yes.

Trevor Noah 31:57 They were like-

Joe 31:57 Mm

Trevor Noah 31:57 ... there's nothing cagey about this.

Joe 31:58 Mm. You-

Trevor Noah 32:01 In my opinion, no team that's a big team-

Joe 32:05 Okay

Trevor Noah 32:06 ... should ever believe that the first game should be cagey, because a first game literally means-

Joe 32:11 Sets the tone

Trevor Noah 32:11 ... nothing.

Joe 32:12 Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 32:12 It also means nothing.

Joe 32:13 Yes. Yes. You lose it, you can say, "Well, yeah."

Trevor Noah 32:14 If you lose it-

Joe 32:14 Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 32:14 ... you can still go on to win a World Cup.

Joe 32:16 Mm.

Trevor Noah 32:16 We've seen many winners do that.

Joe 32:17 Yeah. Spain, Argentina. Yes.

Trevor Noah 32:18 So the first game is a game where you should just come out, swing as hard as you can, and then calibrate.

Joe 32:23 But the thing is-

Trevor Noah 32:23 What, what-

Joe 32:23 ... just saying that as, as a monolith, as a team. But I'm saying the players, the individual players-

Trevor Noah 32:29 Oh. Okay. Okay

Joe 32:30 ... that get affected by the first game nerves.

Trevor Noah 32:31 You think they're a bit-

Joe 32:31 Yes. No player wants to be seen-

Trevor Noah 32:32 My friend

Joe 32:33 ... as the player who made the mistake.

Trevor Noah 32:34 My friend.

Joe 32:34 Who made ... It's almost like, you know when-

Trevor Noah 32:35 My friend. My friend

Joe 32:36 ... you know, when you come on as a substitute and they go like, "Let the first touch just be safe enough."

Trevor Noah 32:40 My friend.

Joe 32:41 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 32:41 This is the World Cup.

Joe 32:42 Mm. No, you can-

Trevor Noah 32:44 You can't, you can't put on a Brazil shirt-

Joe 32:46 Mm

Trevor Noah 32:46 ... and not be sure of yourself.

Joe 32:47 But the thing is the Brazil-

Trevor Noah 32:48 Matheus Cunha-

Joe 32:48 No

Trevor Noah 32:48 ... that guy did not look like he was just trying to feel out the game.

Joe 32:51 Yeah, because he came as a substitute. He was fighting for his place.

Trevor Noah 32:54 Yes.

Joe 32:54 He got Thiago put him on the bench.

Trevor Noah 32:55 Look now.

Joe 32:56 But now in the s- yeah. But I'm saying second game, things have settled now.

Trevor Noah 32:59 Yeah.

Joe 33:00 The worst that could happen has almost happened.

Trevor Noah 33:02 No. But, but not Lamine Yamal. Lamine from the first game.

Joe 33:04 He came on as a substitute as well.

Trevor Noah 33:06 Yeah, but he didn't-

Joe 33:06 But also, like-

Trevor Noah 33:06 But he didn't settle

Joe 33:07 ... La- Lamine has the fearlessness of youth, though.

Trevor Noah 33:09 No.

Joe 33:09 You know? He-

Trevor Noah 33:10 Jo, Messi.

Joe 33:11 Talk to any teenager.

Trevor Noah 33:12 Messi.

Joe 33:12 Teenagers don't care.

Trevor Noah 33:13 Messi first game.

Joe 33:14 They don't about consequences.

Trevor Noah 33:14 Messi first game.

Joe 33:15 Messi has the fearlessness of a veteran. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 33:19 No, you're gonna make excuses for everyone.

Joe 33:21 Yes. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 33:21 You're gonna make excuses for everyone now.

Joe 33:23 Yes. No, no. You're right. No.

Trevor Noah 33:23 Harry Kane.

Joe 33:24 No, you're right. No, you're, no, you're right. You're right. You're right. It's ... It, it ... You're, you're basically saying fortune favors the brave.

Trevor Noah 33:29 Yes, it does.

Joe 33:30 Yes.

Trevor Noah 33:30 It does.

Joe 33:30 Come out. Mm.

Trevor Noah 33:31 It does. And, and by the way, that's another narrative I feel like needs to change, especially after the second week of the World Cup. This whole narrative around, like-

Joe 33:37 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 33:37 ... David versus Goliath. I think we need to switch it up.

Joe 33:40 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 33:41 Like, you know-

Joe 33:42 Especially as regards African teams. Yes. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 33:43 Yeah. When they go like, "Oh-

Joe 33:45 Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 33:45 ... Cote d'Ivoire against Germany."

Joe 33:46 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 33:47 David versus Goliath.

Joe 33:48 Senegal. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 33:50 Senegal versus ... Uh, David versus Goliath.

Joe 33:52 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 33:52 I feel like pundits, commentators, the news, the media-

Joe 33:55 It's very patronizing, by the way.

Trevor Noah 33:57 Yeah.

Joe 33:57 Mm.

Trevor Noah 33:57 It's patronizing, but more importantly, it's also inaccurate now.

Joe 34:00 Mm.

Trevor Noah 34:00 Okay? First of all, physically, if you look at the actual players.

Joe 34:04 [laughs] It's reversed. Yes.

Trevor Noah 34:05 Yo. Yeah. The roles are definitely reversed.

Joe 34:07 Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 34:07 Right? Germany was struggling for size.

Joe 34:09 So you're saying it's wrong both metaphorically and also-

Trevor Noah 34:12 And literally

Joe 34:12 ... literally. Yes.

Trevor Noah 34:13 And quite literally.

Joe 34:14 Mm.

Trevor Noah 34:14 And secondly, it, I think we've, we've outgrown that metaphor, David versus Goliath, because it's not David versus Goliath. You know? It's not like, oh, can David defeat Goliath? No. David is now a world beater. David has multiple players from Europe playing in his squad. David now has some of the most talented footballers.

Joe 34:33 David has been in the gym.

Trevor Noah 34:34 David's been in the gym.

Joe 34:34 David has been tak- taking steroids. Yes. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 34:34 Taking creatine.

Joe 34:36 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 34:36 Doing his thing. David is, like, on top of it.

Joe 34:38 I always-

Trevor Noah 34:38 David's got a few belts under... You know what I mean? Under his waist.

Joe 34:41 I always had a, I always had a problem with the original story anyway.

Trevor Noah 34:44 Why?

Joe 34:45 I thought David was, I thought David was a wimp. He was just throwing things, you know? Like, come on.

Trevor Noah 34:50 Nah, man.

Joe 34:51 Miss that man. Mm.

Trevor Noah 34:51 Can I tell you? It's actually funny you say that. I, I remember reading something that says we might have misunderstood that whole story-

Joe 34:56 Oh, okay

Trevor Noah 34:57 ... if it was a real-

Joe 34:58 Yeah

Trevor Noah 34:58 ... story that happened.

Joe 34:59 Mm.

Trevor Noah 34:59 'Cause they were saying f- by all accounts, Goliath may just have been, like, this very big lumbering man.

Joe 35:05 Oh, okay.

Trevor Noah 35:06 And David was actually nimble, was f- like, super quick with his slingshot. It was actually a bad-

Joe 35:11 Okay

Trevor Noah 35:11 ... m- it was a bad matchup for Goliath.

Joe 35:12 And bad magic. Mm. Okay. Okay.

Trevor Noah 35:13 Like, Goliath, it was actually bad for him. Even if you read it in the story-

Joe 35:16 Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 35:16 ... in the Bible.

Joe 35:16 Mm.

Trevor Noah 35:17 Like, David comes there and he's like, "I don't need all this armor. I don't need ..."

Joe 35:20 Mm.

Trevor Noah 35:20 He's like-

Joe 35:21 Oh, 'cause it will weigh me down.

Trevor Noah 35:22 Yeah. He's like-

Joe 35:22 Yes

Trevor Noah 35:22 ... "It'll weigh me down."

Joe 35:22 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 35:23 And so, like, Goliath is there, this lumbering ... You know what I mean?

Joe 35:25 Mm-hmm. I see your point. Yes.

Trevor Noah 35:26 And that's, that's what I think it is. In a weird way, it shouldn't be, you know, oh, will David beat Goliath? It should be like, i- is Goliath still what he's hyped up to be?

Joe 35:37 Oh, okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Mm.

Trevor Noah 35:37 I feel like a lot of host nations-

Joe 35:39 Mm

Trevor Noah 35:39 ... or a lo- a lot of the big nations, that's-

Joe 35:41 Mm. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 35:41 ... you know, the old winners.

Joe 35:43 European nations and-

Trevor Noah 35:44 Yeah

Joe 35:44 ... African nations. Yes. Mm.

Trevor Noah 35:44 They're, they're just old Goliaths.

Joe 35:45 Mm.

Trevor Noah 35:47 Like England. England.

Joe 35:48 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 35:49 They're considered a Goliath.

Joe 35:50 Yes.

Trevor Noah 35:50 But when was the-

Joe 35:51 They haven't won a ... Yes

Trevor Noah 35:52 ... when, when was the last time-

Joe 35:53 Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 35:53 ... they won a fight?

Joe 35:54 That's why-

Trevor Noah 35:55 Like, the big fights

Joe 35:55 ... that's why I'm thinking it comes down to the recognizability.

Trevor Noah 35:59 When was the last time Brazil won its big fights?

Joe 36:00 Of ... Yes. It comes down to how recognizable your players are.

Trevor Noah 36:03 When was the last time Italy... Italy still-

Joe 36:05 Italy hasn't made to the-

Trevor Noah 36:06 Italy's still considered a Goliath

Joe 36:07 ... quarter. Yes. Yes.

Trevor Noah 36:08 When was the last time Italy-

Joe 36:09 They've missed yeah. They've missed yeah. Yeah

Trevor Noah 36:10 ... think about it.

Joe 36:10 Mm. Since 2006 they've missed the quarter.

Trevor Noah 36:12 Come on. We're still calling these teams Goliaths.

Joe 36:14 Mm.

Trevor Noah 36:15 At some point we've got to, like, change the term now. It can't be like the ... It can't be like, "Yo, uh, is this Goliath still Goliath?"

Joe 36:20 Germany didn't make it out of the group two consecutive World Cups, 2018 and 2022. And still, yes.

Trevor Noah 36:25 You, you get what I'm saying?

Joe 36:26 Mm. No, no. I hear you. I hear you.

Trevor Noah 36:27 I think all of these, all of these games-

Joe 36:28 Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 36:28 ... like, you can't look at Senegal anymore. Even, like, the way the pundits talk about it. I, I, I mean, not that I should be like ... It's not like I'm offended by this.

Joe 36:35 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 36:36 But I even find it weird that even, like, the commentators and the pundits are still like, "And Africa. Look at the Africans doing it. The Af- No one says that about the European teams

Joe 36:44 You know when a movie star is, has been so good they coast on the hype of their success-

Trevor Noah 36:51 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah

Joe 36:51 ... for the longest time. And then you go like, "Yeah, yo, Nic-" You know how many bad movies Nicolas Cage had to put out-

Trevor Noah 36:57 [laughs]

Joe 36:57 ... for us to finally go like, "Yo, guys, I think Nicolas Cage is no longer a star."

Trevor Noah 37:02 Yeah, man.

Joe 37:02 But for the longest time, it was Nicolas Cage, box office superstar.

Trevor Noah 37:06 Yeah.

Joe 37:06 And we're like, "Guys, no. Yeah, I, I- "

Trevor Noah 37:08 I think we need to start, we need to start... Because okay, let's look at the Germany-Côte d'Ivoire game.

Joe 37:13 Mm.

Trevor Noah 37:13 Germany-Ivory Coast.

Joe 37:14 Mm.

Trevor Noah 37:16 Coming in, people would go, "Ooh, David versus Goliath."

Joe 37:20 Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 37:20 "Can Ivory Coast stand up to them?"

Joe 37:22 Mm.

Trevor Noah 37:23 Watch the actual game. Watch the chances created.

Joe 37:26 Germany was struggling, yes.

Trevor Noah 37:27 There's a specific moment that we all remember.

Joe 37:29 Mm.

Trevor Noah 37:29 If Simon Adingra-

Joe 37:31 Yeah. Yes. First time's that ball, yes

Trevor Noah 37:33 ... just puts it on target-

Joe 37:34 Yeah. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm Nicolas Pepe, by the way, late in the game as well. Late in the game.

Trevor Noah 37:38 All of a sudden the game has changed.

Joe 37:39 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 37:39 You know what I mean? It's not like Germany was all over that team.

Joe 37:42 Mm.

Trevor Noah 37:42 Germany scores a-

Joe 37:44 A beauty. Yeah. Mm

Trevor Noah 37:44 ... phenomenal goal.

Joe 37:46 Mm.

Trevor Noah 37:46 But even that tells you something. If you have to score a phenomenal goal to win the game, it means that you weren't the Goliath you thought you were.

Joe 37:53 Yes. But I think-

Trevor Noah 37:54 Like Spain against Saudi Arabia.

Joe 37:56 Yeah. Yeah. Mm.

Trevor Noah 37:56 That is like, okay-

Joe 37:58 Fair. Yeah. Mm

Trevor Noah 37:58 ... you can see that this is a lopsided competition. But if you have to put together the most amazing pass-

Joe 38:05 Mm

Trevor Noah 38:05 ... the most amazing touch and turn and shot to get your goal-

Joe 38:09 Mm

Trevor Noah 38:10 ... then my friend, this wasn't the mismatch.

Joe 38:11 No, but I, but I think it's also about-

Trevor Noah 38:12 Does that make sense?

Joe 38:12 No, but I think, uh, it's still, and ag- I agree with you, but I think it's also about the legacy, how many titles you've won. So like-

Trevor Noah 38:18 But that's my point

Joe 38:18 ... so, so like I, I'll give you an example. Germany versus Ivory Coast.

Trevor Noah 38:21 Yes.

Joe 38:21 When Germany scores, when Denis Undav, you know, quick turn and that first time shot, first of all, by the way, a natural finisher. Because he didn't even need to look-

Trevor Noah 38:28 Out of this world

Joe 38:28 ... where the goal was.

Trevor Noah 38:29 Absolutely out of this world.

Joe 38:30 He knew where the goal was. So when he scores, almost every person I know who has, who is a student of the game, every person who has loved the game for a long time, immediately went back to Gary Lineker's quote. You know that famous quote by Gary Lineker?

Trevor Noah 38:41 No.

Joe 38:41 Where he went like, "Football is a simple game where 22 men chase the ball for 90 minutes, and in the end, the Germans win."

Trevor Noah 38:47 That's so funny.

Joe 38:48 So everyone went back to that. Everyone remembered, oh, this is what the Germans do. There were so many Dutch fans, 'cause Holland and Germany have, or the Netherlands and Germany have that weird rivalry.

Trevor Noah 38:57 Yeah.

Joe 38:57 There were so many Dutch fans who went like, "Yeah, we've seen this happen so many times. The Germans always do this." It's almost like they give you hope and then a dagger. So it's, I think it's about the legacy. And you're right.

Trevor Noah 39:09 I hear you.

Joe 39:09 You're right. It's wrong. But-

Trevor Noah 39:10 But, but at some point we're gonna ask ourselves, like, is, is Goliath the underdog now?

Joe 39:13 You know, you know what's-

Trevor Noah 39:13 That's what we're gonna ask ourselves

Joe 39:14 ... you know what's happening? 'Cause Americans would relate to this. It's the legacy admission. You know, when they go like, "Oh, your father-

Trevor Noah 39:20 Yes

Joe 39:20 ... was an alumna."

Trevor Noah 39:21 Yes. Yeah.

Joe 39:21 Yeah. "He was an alumnus at this college. Oh, he, the library is named after him."

Trevor Noah 39:25 Yes.

Joe 39:25 And just be-

Trevor Noah 39:25 Just because your dad went to the school doesn't mean you deserve to be at the school

Joe 39:28 ... you don't, yeah. You don't have the grades even.

Trevor Noah 39:29 Yeah.

Joe 39:29 But they go like, "Oh, right."

Trevor Noah 39:30 You don't have-

Joe 39:31 Mm.

Trevor Noah 39:31 Germany won the World Cup.

Joe 39:32 Yes.

Trevor Noah 39:32 Not this German squad.

Joe 39:33 Not this generation, yes.

Trevor Noah 39:34 You get what I'm saying?

Joe 39:35 Mm.

Trevor Noah 39:35 This current Argentina squad won the World Cup.

Joe 39:37 Yes. Yes.

Trevor Noah 39:38 See, that's different.

Joe 39:39 Yes, that's different. Yes.

Trevor Noah 39:39 This current French squad won the World Cup. That's different. When you look at like the pieces-

Joe 39:43 So you're saying-

Trevor Noah 39:43 A lot of it's-

Joe 39:44 ... Italy, Italy shouldn't be getting into a college.

Trevor Noah 39:45 You can't. You can't.

Joe 39:46 [laughs] Italy should be going to a community college somewhere.

Trevor Noah 39:48 You can't still be, you can't still be riding on the coattails of a generation that doesn't exist anymore.

Joe 39:52 Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 39:52 Oh, we've won the World Cup. No, we? Who's we?

Joe 39:55 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 39:56 That's why, that's why if you had, like, an African parent, they would be quick to tell you.

Joe 39:59 Yeah, they would remind you. They would remind you. Yes.

Trevor Noah 39:59 You'd be like, "Ah, we bought this house." They'd be like, "Who's we?"

Joe 40:02 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 40:02 "You live in this house. I bought it."

Joe 40:04 This is my roof, yes.

Trevor Noah 40:05 Yeah.

Joe 40:05 Mm.

Trevor Noah 40:05 "This is my house and my car."

Joe 40:07 Yeah, but that's why we don't have-

Trevor Noah 40:08 "You live in it."

Joe 40:09 Yeah, but that's why we don't have nepo babies in Africa.

Trevor Noah 40:10 Yeah, that's exactly it.

Joe 40:11 The concept of the nepo baby is spoiled.

Trevor Noah 40:13 No, no, no, no.

Joe 40:13 Is like totally-

Trevor Noah 40:14 So for me-

Joe 40:15 ... it's wasted on an African parent.

Trevor Noah 40:16 It doesn't go-

Joe 40:17 'Cause an African parent goes like, "What do you mean? This is my stuff."

Trevor Noah 40:19 [laughs]

Joe 40:20 "You better go out there and look for your own stuff." 'Cause Africa, also remember, African parents love struggle. They've got a, "I, I struggled."

Trevor Noah 40:26 Yeah. "Do you know what I had to get here?"

Joe 40:28 "You have to..." Yes. "You have to struggle as well. You'll appreciate it when you struggle."

Trevor Noah 40:30 Maybe that's why we appreciate Team USA so much now, is because it feels like their struggle is bearing fruit.

Joe 40:36 Mm-hmm. And it's also disconnected. They don't have that legacy. They don't have a team they can point to where they go like, "Oh, this team." Like they have some-

Trevor Noah 40:44 Man, they, they did well, man

Joe 40:45 ... they've had some teams, like in 2002, that maybe lost to Germany.

Trevor Noah 40:49 No, but this team, Joe-

Joe 40:49 But they still don't have that team. Yes.

Trevor Noah 40:50 It was great.

Joe 40:51 Mm-hmm. No, they are the team.

Trevor Noah 40:52 It, it was great. It was great for football.

Joe 40:54 Mm.

Trevor Noah 40:54 Again, they're through now.

Joe 40:55 Mm.

Trevor Noah 40:56 Two games. By the way-

Joe 40:57 Mexico is through

Trevor Noah 40:57 ... by the way, how do you, how do you feel about, um, the new format? Goal difference used to be the determining factor.

Joe 41:05 Mm.

Trevor Noah 41:05 Now it's head-to-head.

Joe 41:06 I think it sucks.

Trevor Noah 41:07 Because now it means like-

Joe 41:08 Yes. I think, yeah

Trevor Noah 41:08 ... teams immediately know-

Joe 41:09 The third game. Yes, yeah

Trevor Noah 41:09 ... that the third game means nothing.

Joe 41:10 Yes, means nothing. 'Cause back then, when goal difference is the determinant or is the decider, then the teams go like, "Okay, third game, we're gonna give it our all."

Trevor Noah 41:19 Yeah, because it might determine where you end up.

Joe 41:21 Now. Yes, yes. Now it's, yeah, I-

Trevor Noah 41:22 Now Mexico has, Mexico literally-

Joe 41:24 Mm. Yeah, they don't need to field a team

Trevor Noah 41:26 ... can walk onto the pitch against Czechia-

Joe 41:28 Mm

Trevor Noah 41:28 ... and they can sit down-

Joe 41:29 Mm

Trevor Noah 41:29 ... and it does not change their outcome at all.

Joe 41:32 And, mm, and Czechia can score as many goals as they want. Yes. I think FIFA tried to do head-to-head to avoid... I, I think it backfired. I think, I think it backfired, but Mexico making it through is good. I watched that Mexico game-

Trevor Noah 41:46 No, no, I'm happy

Joe 41:46 ... and, and I think, I think-

Trevor Noah 41:47 I'm happy Mexico made it through

Joe 41:48 ... I think Gomez Cantu made the save of the tournament. He made a, he made, like, an incredible double save when he was on the ground.

Trevor Noah 41:53 Oh, he did the, it's a-

Joe 41:54 That, that, that was insane. Yes.

Trevor Noah 41:55 Yeah.

Joe 41:55 That was insane.

Trevor Noah 41:55 He had the first save down.

Joe 41:56 Yes.

Trevor Noah 41:56 And then the second save, he was falling-

Joe 41:58 Yes

Trevor Noah 41:58 ... and he hit the ball.

Joe 41:59 And he still managed to go-

Trevor Noah 42:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a great... Yeah, that was really nice

Joe 42:00 ... it was, 'cause, like, we celebrate, like, the strikers with their golazos, but that-

Trevor Noah 42:04 This has been the, the go-

Joe 42:05 Wow

Trevor Noah 42:06 ... the, the World Cup of goalkeepers.

Joe 42:07 Yeah, goalkeepers, yes.

Trevor Noah 42:08 No, the goalkeepers are looking good in this World Cup.

Joe 42:09 Vozinya.

Trevor Noah 42:10 Yeah, no-

Joe 42:11 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 42:11 ... they, they're actually looking very good in this World Cup.

Joe 42:12 Yeah, his mom, his mom was allowed into the country. That's the, that's how good a performance he gave in that game.

Trevor Noah 42:17 That's when you know.

Joe 42:18 That forget about the fo- also, also forget about the following. His mom-

Trevor Noah 42:22 You know-

Joe 42:23 And [laughs]

Trevor Noah 42:23 ... that's, that's when you go, like, "How good were you?"

Joe 42:26 Yes.

Trevor Noah 42:26 "I was so good that America changed its immigration policies for my mom."

Joe 42:30 Yes. And also, um, the mom was received as like a re- fi- some kind of returning conqueror.

Trevor Noah 42:33 Like a dignitary.

Joe 42:34 Yes, yes. But also, like, Vozinya's story is so interesting, and I think we touched about this-

Trevor Noah 42:38 Yeah, we did

Joe 42:39 ... during the game.

Trevor Noah 42:39 We did last time. Yeah.

Joe 42:40 Yeah. He got, like, millions of followers, and- [laughs] He's almost like the reverse Spider-Man, 'cause with great power came great irresponsibility.

Trevor Noah 42:49 [laughs]

Joe 42:49 So he received 14 million followers, and the first thing he did was follow everybody, every Instagram body that he could find.

Trevor Noah 42:56 Hey, man, live your dreams.

Joe 42:57 Mm.

Trevor Noah 42:58 You know?

Joe 42:58 Al- also at 40, yeah,

Joe 43:00 you know, this is his last dance, and he's going like, "I'm going down swinging." Yeah, no, the keepers have been outstanding.

Trevor Noah 43:06 What are we excited looking forward? What are we looking for?

Joe 43:09 Uh, looking forward, I'm very interested, one, in how Sweden navigates their last game.

Trevor Noah 43:16 You know, let's talk about that game-

Joe 43:17 Mm

Trevor Noah 43:17 ... before we go into what's coming up.

Joe 43:18 I'm very inter- Yeah.

Trevor Noah 43:19 I don't know what your analysis was. I think that's one of those games where the score doesn't reflect the chances. So Sweden, Sweden is a very spiky team.

Joe 43:28 Mm.

Trevor Noah 43:28 And what I mean by that is, you know, like, I think a team that's well-balanced-

Joe 43:32 Mm

Trevor Noah 43:32 ... has a very smooth shape to it.

Joe 43:34 Mm.

Trevor Noah 43:34 So its good moments and its bad moments are not particularly far from each other.

Joe 43:39 Mm. Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 43:39 So it creates, like, a really beautiful, smooth shape.

Joe 43:41 Okay.

Trevor Noah 43:42 Then there are teams that are just, like, bad, so it's like a small circle.

Joe 43:45 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 43:45 But then you have spiky teams. Amazing moment, terrible moment.

Joe 43:48 Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 43:48 Amazing moment, terrible moment.

Joe 43:49 Mm.

Trevor Noah 43:49 Amazing moment. Because Sweden is so spiky, they conceded in every terrible moment.

Joe 43:55 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 43:56 But they had, like, really good spikes where they could have scored, and they didn't.

Joe 43:59 Mm.

Trevor Noah 43:59 Like, I thought Isak was fantastic feeding the ball-

Joe 44:01 Mm

Trevor Noah 44:01 ... to Gyökeres.

Joe 44:02 Mm.

Trevor Noah 44:03 I think Gyökeres was fantastic feeding the ball to Ajeti.

Joe 44:05 Yes.

Trevor Noah 44:05 Ajeti should have put a ball on target.

Joe 44:07 Mm.

Trevor Noah 44:07 Gyökeres, I think, should've been a little bit more clinical.

Joe 44:10 Mm.

Trevor Noah 44:10 There were, like, three or four chances where Sweden could have scored and should have scored, in my opinion, and they didn't.

Joe 44:17 And then they got punished.

Trevor Noah 44:17 And that turns the game-

Joe 44:19 Yeah. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 44:19 ... because when it's 2-0, and you make it 2-1-

Joe 44:23 Mm. Mm. Yeah, of course. Now it's a totally different game. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 44:25 The Netherlands is a bit shaky now.

Joe 44:26 Shaky now. And we've seen them against Japan, yes.

Trevor Noah 44:29 If it's 2-1 or t- 3-1, and you make it 3-2-

Joe 44:33 Again, yes. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 44:33 ... momentum shaking it. I just felt like Sweden, I think people are writing Sweden off prematurely.

Joe 44:39 I think they ran into a Dutch team. Again, 'cause also you are talking about teams that started, that started in a cagey manner-

Trevor Noah 44:44 Yeah

Joe 44:44 ... and then can't understand.

Trevor Noah 44:46 Yeah.

Joe 44:46 The Netherlands did that in the second game. I think they ran into a Dutch team that finally got its tactics together. 'Cause remember in the first game, they played Donyell Malen as the lone fellow, as the lone forward.

Trevor Noah 44:59 Yeah.

Joe 45:00 And then because in this game, um, Sommer was struggling with a knock, they moved Donyell Malen to the wing-

Trevor Noah 45:07 Oh

Joe 45:07 ... and then they brought in Brian Brobbey-

Trevor Noah 45:08 And I've always thought-

Joe 45:08 ... who's like a handful

Trevor Noah 45:09 ... I've always thought he's, uh, Malen is better on the right.

Joe 45:12 Yeah, no. So they, so that's what they did. And then they brought him-

Trevor Noah 45:14 Okay

Joe 45:14 ... because Brobbey killed them. He killed them with his physicality. He killed them with his strength.

Trevor Noah 45:18 Yeah.

Joe 45:18 He killed them with his running. And I think for the longest time, for the longest time, especially in the first half, Lindelöf and his defensive partner couldn't handle that much power. But-

Trevor Noah 45:26 You know what have made me wonder, actually? I wonder if, you know, Brobbey and Haaland-

Joe 45:33 Mm

Trevor Noah 45:33 ... and a lot of these, even Lukaku for glimpses-

Joe 45:35 Mm-hmm. Big strong boys, yes

Trevor Noah 45:36 ... I wonder if football, like fashion, is experiencing its come back to bell-bottoms moment.

Joe 45:42 Oh, it went through the small phases. Mm.

Trevor Noah 45:44 Where we, we had a game for a long time where it was all about have a big man up front.

Joe 45:48 Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 45:49 He powers through.

Joe 45:50 Mm.

Trevor Noah 45:50 He makes space.

Joe 45:50 Mm.

Trevor Noah 45:50 He gets you goals. Then that man became shorter and shorter and shorter.

Joe 45:54 And smaller, yes.

Trevor Noah 45:55 Messi-

Joe 45:56 Yes

Trevor Noah 45:56 ... basically eclipsed, like, basically deleted that position from the game.

Joe 45:59 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 46:00 And now it was the David Villas, and it was-

Joe 46:02 Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 46:02 ... you know, the Agüeros and-

Joe 46:03 Mm

Trevor Noah 46:03 ... but it was really, like, the point of that player was not to, like, overpower a defense.

Joe 46:07 Mm. It was skew them through their movement. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 46:09 Right?

Joe 46:10 Mm.

Trevor Noah 46:10 But then because the game became about movement and passing, defending became tighter.

Joe 46:14 Yes. Yes.

Trevor Noah 46:14 It became about a block.

Joe 46:15 Mm.

Trevor Noah 46:15 It became about shapes to-

Joe 46:16 Mm

Trevor Noah 46:17 ... cut off the passing lanes and the triangles.

Joe 46:18 Mm.

Trevor Noah 46:19 But now because of that, one of the only ways you can get a goal and you can score-

Joe 46:24 Mm

Trevor Noah 46:24 ... is to whip the ball in behind the defense-

Joe 46:26 Oh, yes. Yes

Trevor Noah 46:26 ... or to whip the ball in or to create some sort of running chaos.

Joe 46:29 Mm.

Trevor Noah 46:29 Because that's where numbers don't help you.

Joe 46:31 You need a battering ram.

Trevor Noah 46:32 If you have-

Joe 46:32 Yes. Mm.

Trevor Noah 46:32 Yeah. If you, if you have six defenders running towards their own goal-

Joe 46:35 Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 46:35 ... it doesn't really help them as much as six defenders facing away from their goal.

Joe 46:40 Yes. Yes. Yes. You're right. Yes.

Trevor Noah 46:40 Do you get what I'm saying?

Joe 46:41 But I think that's the thing about soccer. Soccer or football is very cyclical.

Trevor Noah 46:44 Yeah. And so now-

Joe 46:45 Like every odd years. Yes. Mm

Trevor Noah 46:45 ... now it feels like, you know, like-

Joe 46:46 We are going there. Mm

Trevor Noah 46:47 ... looking at Brobbey, I was like, I think five, six years ago-

Joe 46:50 Mm

Trevor Noah 46:50 ... that player is not-

Joe 46:51 Yeah. No. No. Yeah. No. Yeah

Trevor Noah 46:51 ... on a squad anywhere.

Joe 46:52 So it's, he was endangered or even almost extinct.

Trevor Noah 46:55 Yes.

Joe 46:56 Yes. Uh-huh.

Trevor Noah 46:56 And now-

Joe 46:56 Mm

Trevor Noah 46:57 ... it looks like there's a space for him in every squad in the world.

Joe 47:00 Mm.

Trevor Noah 47:00 Even like a Gyökeres.

Joe 47:01 Yes. Yes. Yeah. There's, yes. Mm. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 47:02 There's, like, a space for, like, this big, fast, strong player-

Joe 47:04 Battering ram player who just, yeah

Trevor Noah 47:06 ... who's gonna, like, cause chaos up top. It's one of the reasons I actually think Mbappé is only being saved by his pace.

Joe 47:12 Mm.

Trevor Noah 47:13 Not, I think Mbappé is one of the greatest players we'll ever see.

Joe 47:16 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 47:16 I still think he should be playing on the left. In the middle, without his pace-

Joe 47:21 Mm

Trevor Noah 47:21 ... he just gets, like, knocked off easily.

Joe 47:23 Easily, yes.

Trevor Noah 47:23 Just, he gets-

Joe 47:24 Easily. Mm

Trevor Noah 47:24 ... knocked off balance.

Joe 47:25 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 47:25 He just gets... He, he doesn't like... He c- he's not a battering ram.

Joe 47:27 Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 47:28 You, you, you know what I mean?

Joe 47:29 I was looking at, uh... So for me, when I look at Sweden, 'cause Sweden does, Sweden has gone back to that. First of all, Sweden uses two strikers, which is a rare thing these days.

Trevor Noah 47:36 They, they shouldn't. I don't think they should.

Joe 47:38 Yes. You know, you, so you-

Trevor Noah 47:38 I, I don't know what you think about it.

Joe 47:39 Yes.

Trevor Noah 47:39 They shouldn't. I liked it when Isak played on the left.

Joe 47:40 No, but they, but then also Norway uses two strikers, Soloth and Haaland.

Trevor Noah 47:44 Yeah, but I feel like they, like, they sort of-

Joe 47:46 There's what-

Trevor Noah 47:46 ... have to.

Joe 47:46 Mm. Okay. No, but I'm going, like, so when I look-

Trevor Noah 47:49 Sweden had nothing.

Joe 47:50 Mm. Did-

Trevor Noah 47:50 It wasn't just... Okay, let me put it this way.

Joe 47:51 Mm.

Trevor Noah 47:51 It wasn't about the two strikers.

Joe 47:52 Mm.

Trevor Noah 47:52 It was about the formation behind it.

Joe 47:54 Yes.

Trevor Noah 47:54 If you have two strikers, but then you play an attacking midfielder right behind them-

Joe 47:58 Mm

Trevor Noah 47:58 ... so you're playing a 4-3-1-2-

Joe 48:00 I, yes. Mm

Trevor Noah 48:00 ... your wings are so wide open. Gakpo and Dumfries-

Joe 48:04 Oh, yes. Yes. Yes

Trevor Noah 48:05 ... are having the time of their lives.

Joe 48:05 They're just overloading the pitch, yeah. Mm.

Trevor Noah 48:06 Yeah, because now your wings are just-

Joe 48:07 Mm. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 48:07 ... and the game is on the wings most of the time anyways.

Joe 48:09 Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 48:10 So people are going around you. You know what I mean? You've built, like, a really strong front door with no walls.

Joe 48:14 But that's why I'm thinking. That's why, that's why I'm very interested in how Sweden handles their last game, because Gran Potter, in the game against the Dutch, he showed that he's no Harry Potter. But in the, that final game, in the final game, yeah, he's going to need to, like, whip some magic, man, because it'll be very disappointing with a team that Elanga and Lucas Bergvall, with a team-

Trevor Noah 48:33 Can I ask you a question?

Joe 48:33 ... that talented. Mm.

Trevor Noah 48:35 Why don't they start Elanga?

Joe 48:38 He scored, like, goals for them, but I think maybe they're think-

Trevor Noah 48:40 Joe, why don't they start Elanga?

Joe 48:40 No, maybe, maybe here's what I'm thinking. With his raw pace- Graham Potter is going like, "Oh, I need him against tiring legs." That's the only excuse I can give

Trevor Noah 48:48 My friend, that makes no sense when you look at his record. Elanga's playing from minute one.

Joe 48:54 He has-

Trevor Noah 48:55 So here's, okay, here's what I mean

Joe 48:56 ... I like Elanga, but some- sometimes, sometimes he runs head down. Sometimes there's a roadrunner quality to his game where you don't know what he's going to do next. Yes.

Trevor Noah 49:03 So okay, here's, maybe I have a, I have a, a differing opinion here. I go, bringing in impact players-

Joe 49:11 Okay

Trevor Noah 49:11 ... in those types of situations-

Joe 49:12 Mm

Trevor Noah 49:12 ... can work in your favor sometimes.

Joe 49:14 Mm.

Trevor Noah 49:14 I think what a lot of coaches take for granted is you might bring them in when you're down now, and now you're playing-

Joe 49:20 When you're already like, they, it's like, mm

Trevor Noah 49:20 ... and now you're playing against somebody who can afford to sit back and, and rob you of yards.

Joe 49:24 Or and there's more space. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 49:25 So now this person gets to go-

Joe 49:26 Mm

Trevor Noah 49:26 ... "Okay, Elanga's faster than me."

Joe 49:27 Mm, mm.

Trevor Noah 49:28 "I'm gonna stand 10, 20 yards further back. Let's move everything back-"

Joe 49:30 And rob him of space to run into. Yes, mm.

Trevor Noah 49:32 "... and rob him of space." But if you start Elanga, and he's running from the very beginning, and we need to attack at the same time, we now have to choose, do we attack? Look at what PSG did-

Joe 49:41 The goal is scored in just, yes. Mm

Trevor Noah 49:42 ... look at what PSG did to Arsenal.

Joe 49:43 Mm.

Trevor Noah 49:44 Bukayo Saka spent the whole game defending.

Joe 49:45 Defending, yes.

Trevor Noah 49:46 Because Khvicha Kvaratskhelia on that-

Joe 49:47 Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm

Trevor Noah 49:48 ... on that left wing-

Joe 49:49 Was a constant menace. Yes, mm

Trevor Noah 49:49 ... he needs a double team. So now Bukayo Saka, one of the best, like, wide players-

Joe 49:53 Mm, mm

Trevor Noah 49:53 ... doesn't get to do, ply his trade.

Joe 49:55 To show off. Yeah, yeah, true. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 49:55 He spends 60-something minutes defending, and then he comes off the ga- the field.

Joe 49:58 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 49:59 That, that's what pace does from the very get-go.

Joe 50:01 And also, I'll tell you as someone who has played defensive positions, pace is scary. When you're playing against a player-

Trevor Noah 50:07 Yeah, man

Joe 50:07 ... who you know in-

Trevor Noah 50:08 Pace is terrible, man

Joe 50:09 ... who you know in a foot race can beat you-

Trevor Noah 50:11 It's terrible

Joe 50:11 ... it's like the worst thing in the world.

Trevor Noah 50:12 Because then you just kick the ball and they run.

Joe 50:13 Yes. 'Cause like a player who dribbles, you go like, "Oh, maybe I'll touch the ball," or like-

Trevor Noah 50:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Joe 50:17 ... when a player-- 'cause also remember foot races are like the most natural, almost n- most alpha male. Like, you, you think about when someone can beat you in a foot race-

Trevor Noah 50:26 It is the most primitive-

Joe 50:27 Yeah, most, yeah

Trevor Noah 50:28 ... competition.

Joe 50:28 Yes. Earliest, like, you know, primitive-

Trevor Noah 50:31 Yeah

Joe 50:31 ... lizard brain.

Trevor Noah 50:32 Yeah.

Joe 50:32 So, like, the goal is scored once. He's running through the middle, 'cause you know he's beating you for- Like, pace is not something you can... Someone is either faster than you or not.

Trevor Noah 50:39 Yeah, that's it.

Joe 50:40 It's, like, very-

Trevor Noah 50:41 That's it.

Joe 50:41 Yeah, no, so I'm very interested in how he'll handle that.

Trevor Noah 50:43 Okay, so we're looking forward to the Sweden game. That's gonna-

Joe 50:45 Yeah, you did ask me-

Trevor Noah 50:46 That's gonna be a big game.

Joe 50:47 Mm.

Trevor Noah 50:47 Uh, Ger- Germany's games are done. Netherland-

Joe 50:49 I'm looking, I'm looking forward to the Egypt game as well. Uh, not because it could be Salah's last game if they don't make it, but also because Egypt for me has-- You did ask me last week about my, like, most heartwarming moment.

Trevor Noah 51:01 Yeah.

Joe 51:02 Oh, and I, I remember for me, I didn't say this, uh, and I think I should have said this last week. For me, it's seeing the Egyptian coach on the bench, Hossam Hassan. He's a legend. He used to be the face of Egypt before Salah came along. He helped Egypt win most of those titles.

Trevor Noah 51:18 Oh, I didn't know that.

Joe 51:18 Yeah. And now he's coaching at the World Cup, and he's coaching the guy who replaced him as the face or-

Trevor Noah 51:24 That's amazing. I didn't know that

Joe 51:26 ... who overtook him, yes.

Trevor Noah 51:26 Yeah, I didn't know that.

Joe 51:26 He was part of that team that had, you know, Mohammed Aboutrika, Mohammed Barakat, and all these legends. But seeing him at the-- 'cause he never, he never got a chance to go to the World Cup.

Trevor Noah 51:35 Oh.

Joe 51:35 So you imagine if Salah never got a chance to go-

Trevor Noah 51:37 Okay. No, I hear you. Yeah, yeah

Joe 51:38 ... to the World Cup. He kept winning all these Nations Cups.

Trevor Noah 51:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe 51:41 But for some reason or another, Egypt could never make it to the World Cup, and now he's at the World Cup. He's the coach. So I'm really looking forward to at least him making it to the knockout rounds. It would be, like, a beautiful, like, way to bring his story all around. He's a legend of African football. So for me, that was, just watching him, it's like almost, remember when Maradona was coaching

Joe 52:00 Messi-

Trevor Noah 52:00 It was a weird-

Joe 52:01 In 20- Yeah, it's-

Trevor Noah 52:02 It was a beau- That was beautiful

Joe 52:02 ... yeah, no, it's, it's a beautiful, you see, like, fa-

Trevor Noah 52:04 It was dysfunctional, but it was beautiful.

Joe 52:05 Yes. [laughs] It was dysfunctional, yes. But, like, it's almost like you see this person, it's like almost a passing of the torch.

Trevor Noah 52:10 Yeah.

Joe 52:10 But, like, in a game, like, not, not, like, outside the game, but in the game.

Trevor Noah 52:14 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually actively in the game.

Joe 52:16 'Cause, yeah. Yeah, so I, I would really, I would really love for Hossam Hassan to make it to the knockout rounds, and also for Salah. Like, that would be a good send-off-

Trevor Noah 52:23 Yeah, man

Joe 52:24 ... for Salah. Mm

Trevor Noah 52:24 ... we need, we need as many of them as possible.

Joe 52:25 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 52:25 We need, um... What about your boy CR7? Do you think he's, uh-

Joe 52:30 [sighs] The funny thing is I'm a huge admirer, and people might not, might find this hard to believe. I'm a huge admirer of Cristiano Ronaldo the person, Cristiano Ronaldo the human being.

Trevor Noah 52:42 Yeah.

Joe 52:43 He's, like, a superlative human being when you hear about the things he has done for charity, when you hear about the fact that he doesn't have tattoos 'cause he likes donating blood. That's the reason he doesn't have tattoos. He's, like, a superlative sup- But then because he's a competitor, I think, like, Cristiano Ronaldo the competitor and Cristiano Ronaldo the human being, especially when they come on the pitch-

Trevor Noah 53:02 Yeah

Joe 53:03 ... there's a reason why people call him Homelander.

Trevor Noah 53:05 [laughs]

Joe 53:06 'Cause I think C- C- Cristiano Ronaldo the-

Trevor Noah 53:08 Did you see that meme, by the way?

Joe 53:09 Yes.

Trevor Noah 53:10 [laughs]

Joe 53:10 It was like, it was like word for word.

Trevor Noah 53:12 Oh.

Joe 53:12 Yeah, no. So I feel like the competitor, it's almost like if someone has, like, an alter ego, you know? So like, uh-

Trevor Noah 53:17 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Joe 53:17 ... yeah, like, you know, Clark-

Trevor Noah 53:19 Yeah

Joe 53:19 ... Clark Kent and Superman and Bruce Wayne and Batman. But then if Batman takes over, 'cause the thing that makes Superman very human is Clark Kent.

Trevor Noah 53:26 Yeah.

Joe 53:26 The thing that makes Batman human is Bruce Wayne. So I feel like with Cristiano Ronaldo, the alter ego sometimes takes over when he's, actually most times takes over when he's on the pitch. And so what happened in the first game was, of course, he no longer has the legs, so he's no longer as mobile as he should be.

Trevor Noah 53:43 Yeah.

Joe 53:44 The midfield can't feed you if you're not making runs in behind. The midfield can't feed you, however superlative that midfield is. Bruno Fernandes, João Neves, Vitinha, they can't feed you if every run you're making, you're in an offside position. So they spent most of the time, despite having 80% of the possession, just passing sideways. And then what happened was after the game, they asked João Neves, "Cristiano Ronaldo..." And he said something that I thought was diplomatic. But-

Trevor Noah 54:09 I actually thought it was diplomatic as well, yeah

Joe 54:10 ... yeah, but, 'cause he went like, "Oh, he's just another player." 'Cause you don't want to heap pressure on Ronaldo to go like, "Oh, he's our only hope. He, he's our prince and slayer."

Trevor Noah 54:18 [laughs]

Joe 54:18 "Please save us." No, he went like, "No, he's just, he's just one of us. We have to deliver." Ronaldo fans didn't take it like that. And remember, João Neves had scored the goal that spared their blushes. They have been flooding his Instagram. Comments were coming in, 100 comments of hate per minute. They didn't just do that. They went and flooded-

Trevor Noah 54:37 His girlfriends. Yeah, yeah, yeah

Joe 54:38 ... his girlfriends. And they're doing that to Bruno Fernandes. They're doing it to João Neves. They're doing it to Vitinha. And they also are doing it to, you won't believe this, and this is going to hurt you, they're doing it to the Liverpool player. I don't even know whether I should say his name.

Trevor Noah 54:52 Who?

Joe 54:53 Who passed away.

Trevor Noah 54:55 They're doing it to Diogo Jota?

Joe 54:56 That's it, yeah. They're going to his comments and they, they're leaving comments.

Trevor Noah 55:00 Wait, what?

Joe 55:00 No, I know. It's, it's ... And some people, so they, they even, they are coming to Neves' Instagram saying, "It should have been you."

Trevor Noah 55:07 Jeez.

Joe 55:08 Instead of Jota, it should have been. That's what I'm saying. I didn't even wa-

Trevor Noah 55:10 Hey, man. That's the, that's like the, that's-

Joe 55:11 That's what I'm saying. I didn't-

Trevor Noah 55:11 That's the downside of football is like-

Joe 55:13 That's what I'm saying. I didn't even think I should bring up-

Trevor Noah 55:15 The fans-

Joe 55:15 Yeah

Trevor Noah 55:15 ... yeah, the fans get so, you know?

Joe 55:17 'Cause I went like, "Should I bring up Diogo Jota?" 'Cause it's-

Trevor Noah 55:20 No, it is. I mean-

Joe 55:20 You don't want to bring him up in these circumstances.

Trevor Noah 55:21 Yeah, yeah. But it is like the-

Joe 55:23 They are, they are flooding. And so I'm thinking, I'm thinking, how is that affecting-

Trevor Noah 55:25 Does that, does that-

Joe 55:26 How is that affecting the chemistry?

Trevor Noah 55:28 Well, that, that's what I was wondering. I was like does this-

Joe 55:29 Yes

Trevor Noah 55:29 ... is this one of those moments where you hope a coach can like shut the whole thing down and say, "Team, we have to do this," or does it put too much pressure on Portugal now?

Joe 55:36 It puts too much pressure 'cause now they're going to be watching every pass.

Trevor Noah 55:39 Yeah. Now they're like playing for a nation, by the way.

Joe 55:40 Now, either you pass to Ronaldo, yes. Either you pass to Ronaldo or you know what's going to happen off the pitch. But also I'm going like, these players these days are online-

Trevor Noah 55:47 Yeah, they are

Joe 55:47 ... constantly.

Trevor Noah 55:48 They are.

Joe 55:48 So they're seeing all this. And for me, I'm just thinking, how does Roberto Martinez-

Trevor Noah 55:52 You know what also people forget is in footballing nations-

Joe 55:56 Mm

Trevor Noah 55:57 ... there's also like a strange, um, entitlement that fans have where like footballers will talk about how they can't go to the grocery store.

Joe 56:07 Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 56:07 Their, their families can't go out.

Joe 56:08 Yes.

Trevor Noah 56:08 Because people go to their families or them in public-

Joe 56:11 Mm

Trevor Noah 56:11 ... and curse them out-

Joe 56:12 Mm

Trevor Noah 56:13 ... for their performances-

Joe 56:14 It's not just footballers

Trevor Noah 56:15 ... in matches.

Joe 56:16 I think Arsene Wenger did talk about he can't pick. Coaches have talked about not being able to pick their kids from school 'cause a parent comes up to you.

Trevor Noah 56:24 But that, but you see-

Joe 56:24 Yes

Trevor Noah 56:25 ... I don't, I don't, I don't hear, maybe it happens and I don't hear, but I don't hear stories-

Joe 56:28 In America, yeah

Trevor Noah 56:28 ... like, like that in American sports.

Joe 56:30 Americans are very good I think at sometimes-

Trevor Noah 56:32 They go like, "You're trash."

Joe 56:33 Separate, yes, yes.

Trevor Noah 56:34 But I don't see them-

Joe 56:35 Yeah, with, with your kid. Yes. Mm

Trevor Noah 56:35 ... yeah, I don't see them, I don't see stories like that.

Joe 56:38 Mm.

Trevor Noah 56:39 And like that's the one thing about football where it's like the weight-

Joe 56:42 It's very intense. Yes. Yes. That, mm, mm

Trevor Noah 56:43 ... the weight of a nation is not borne easily.

Joe 56:46 Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 56:46 You know what I mean? Like literally carrying the weight of your nation is one that's, yo, man.

Joe 56:51 It's-

Trevor Noah 56:52 It's no joke.

Joe 56:52 Yeah. So now I'm just thinking about how toxic that is for the

Joe 56:55 ... 'Cause now Portugal, the same way you said Spain-

Trevor Noah 56:57 Yeah

Joe 56:57 ... the same way you said the Dutch, Portugal really needs to win its next game.

Trevor Noah 57:01 Yeah, they do.

Joe 57:02 They really cannot afford not to, 'cause the pressure's only going to intensify.

Trevor Noah 57:06 Yeah.

Joe 57:07 And some are saying, and I'm one of those people, you're one of those people who are saying maybe Ronaldo should be taking on a lesser role. Maybe should go from being, you know, the, you know, you know when they go like, oh-

Trevor Noah 57:17 The cheerleader

Joe 57:18 ... maybe the lead name. Yes, the lead name on the poster. Maybe should be a supporting character. 'Cause also when you think about the major trophy, the one major trophy Portugal has won, Ronaldo was forced off by injury.

Trevor Noah 57:29 He was.

Joe 57:29 And he spent the entire final against France, Euro 2006, he spent, or rather Euro 2016, he spent the whole final cheerleading from the bench, and who scored the goal? Eder. No one knows him. No one knew him before. No one knows what happened to him after.

Trevor Noah 57:44 Yeah.

Joe 57:44 But guess what? Ronaldo was a European champion. So by that time he was forced by injury to go off the pitch.

Trevor Noah 57:51 So, so what you're saying is someone, someone in the Portuguese team needs to slide tackle Ronaldo in the change room-

Joe 57:55 No, their family will be firebombed [laughs]

Trevor Noah 57:56 ... make something happen. Make something happen.

Joe 57:58 Your family, your family home would be firebombed.

Trevor Noah 58:00 Yeah, you'd be gone.

Joe 58:00 Yeah, no. True. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 58:00 You'd be deported from your home country.

Joe 58:02 Yeah, I know. It would be, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 58:02 All right. Well, this has been it.

Joe 58:04 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 58:04 Another week of the World Cup.

Joe 58:05 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 58:05 Another exciting one.

Joe 58:07 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 58:07 It's gonna be fire, man.

Joe 58:08 It's a full week. Yes. No, no. I, I, I can't wait 'cause normally it would be like two more weeks to go now. 'Cause normally the World Cup used to last a month.

Trevor Noah 58:13 Yeah. Now it, now it's done.

Joe 58:15 Yes. Now we have like four more weeks at least.

Trevor Noah 58:16 Yeah. We're not even, pace yourself.

Joe 58:18 Mm. Pace yourself. Mm.

Trevor Noah 58:18 I tell everybody who's watching the World Cup now, I'm like, "Pace yourself." This is the longest World Cup-

Joe 58:24 Yes

Trevor Noah 58:24 ... we've ever had.

Joe 58:24 Mm.

Trevor Noah 58:25 This is the most packed World Cup we've ever had. Pace yourself.

Joe 58:28 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 58:28 Uh, don't get too angry. Don't get too happy.

Joe 58:30 [laughs] Especially the Portuguese fans.

Trevor Noah 58:32 Unless you're Turkish.

Joe 58:33 Yes. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 58:33 Unless you're Turkish, then-

Joe 58:33 The Turkish fans have every reason to be angry. Yes. Mm. Mm

Trevor Noah 58:34 ... yeah, you, you can go crazy, but otherwise enjoy it.

Joe 58:36 I will say this, the reason I, I am, I'm enjoying the, also the fact that we have four more weeks is, you know, our watch parties. You know, we've built, we've built a community, actually.

Trevor Noah 58:44 It's fun. It's also fun.

Joe 58:44 It really feels like a family. And then every week that passes, 'cause you keep reading out certain names.

Trevor Noah 58:48 Yeah, yeah.

Joe 58:49 And I think every week that passes feels like, oh, we're getting to know more and more about people.

Trevor Noah 58:52 Yeah. We're building this like a little-

Joe 58:53 Yes

Trevor Noah 58:53 ... it's a little village.

Joe 58:54 Yeah. No, it's really, it's really beautiful. And I'm, I'm, I, I don't know where four weeks are going to take us. Maybe we're gonna be meeting these, because it feels like now we are dating, you know, but we're not meeting.

Trevor Noah 59:03 [laughs]

Joe 59:03 You know, you're, you're dating, but I don't trust you yet to meet my friends, but maybe four weeks from now, who knows?

Trevor Noah 59:09 You never know.

Joe 59:09 Mm.

Trevor Noah 59:09 You never know. We'll see how it goes. But Joe, this was fun, man.

Joe 59:11 No.

Trevor Noah 59:11 As always, my friend.

Joe 59:12 Brother, a pleasure.

Trevor Noah 59:13 It's all good.

Joe 59:13 I just hate the fact that I had to agree with you at some point, but-

Trevor Noah 59:16 Ah, man, you know-

Joe 59:17 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 59:17 ... as, as Gianni Infantino says, "The World Cup brings people together who never imagined they could be together."

Joe 59:26 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 59:26 And even Joe and Trevor can agree sometimes-

Joe 59:29 And stay on track [laughs]

Trevor Noah 59:29 ... because of the World Cup.

Joe 59:32 No, it's beautiful, man. It's beautiful. And I'm looking forward to more of this, man. Mm. [upbeat music]

Trevor Noah 59:40 Thank you again so much to the sponsor of today's episode, Mazda. Mazda delivers confidence and control in every single drive, and Consumer Reports' Safest New Car Brand award proves it. You know, there's a phrase I really like, "A lot can happen when an accident doesn't." Ah. [smacks lips] And that's true. A calm drive home, a conversation that continues, a trip that stays exactly what it was supposed to be. That's what we're looking for. Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand in America. Mazda safety features are designed to bring more enjoyment to every drive, not to take away from it, so you can do what you feel like doing. Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand, people. Safest. Visit mazdausa.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. [upbeat music] Thank you so much for watching the episode. If you enjoyed it, pass it on to a friend. If you didn't enjoy it, pass it on to your friend still. Let them suffer for a change. And don't forget to engage with us in the comments. Uh, if you wanna, uh, suggest a guest, maybe there's questions you want, maybe there's ideas that you have, you can chat to us. We will read through the comments, and we'll get into it. Either way, I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for hanging out with us on What Now? And remember, we do this for you, so we would like to hear from you. Till next time. Thank you.