Vic Mensa: Who is the Real Threat?

Trevor Noah 0:00 [upbeat music] The worst thing about being robbed by somebody on a bicycle is, is that it-

David Kibuuka 0:09 Oh, yeah, it's crazy

Trevor Noah 0:09 ... it's, it's a very, it's a very whimsical way to be robbed.

David Kibuuka 0:12 Mm.

Vic Mensa 0:13 Something extreme.

Trevor Noah 0:21 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if someone pulls out a gun and they're like, "Give me-

David Kibuuka 0:23 A story to tell as well, yeah

Trevor Noah 0:23 ... give me your phone, give me your wallet."

David Kibuuka 0:25 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 0:25 No, but even after it happens, if, let, let's say if people were watching you, there's a certain amount of bravado that you get to maintain.

David Kibuuka 0:31 For surviving a gunshot.

Trevor Noah 0:32 "Wow, man, I, I can't believe you got robbed. I saw what happened, and you were there, and you had to put your hands up, and the person..." Or even a knife, you know, you know what I mean?

David Kibuuka 0:38 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 0:38 When you get robbed by somebody on a bicycle, it is one of... Because just think of a bicycle, and then the person grabs your phone. You said you were on a FaceTime.

Vic Mensa 0:47 Yes.

Trevor Noah 0:48 So now they're on a FaceTime with this person. [laughs]

David Kibuuka 0:51 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 0:51 I never thought about that.

Trevor Noah 0:52 So one minute you, as Vic, are like, "Man, let me tell you what I'm doing out here. Let me..."

Vic Mensa 0:56 [whooshing]

Trevor Noah 0:56 "Let me tell you what I'm doing out here." [upbeat music] This is What Now? With Trevor Noah.

Trevor Noah 1:18 Yo, you know what happened yesterday?

David Kibuuka 1:21 So I unintentionally bought a new iPhone.

Trevor Noah 1:24 Wait, before you guys carry on, can I just say you guys look like you got the same style memo, and then I was excluded from this.

David Kibuuka 1:30 When are you think I don't research?

Trevor Noah 1:32 So you dress like this for Vic? [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:37 [laughs] It's the South African version.

David Kibuuka 1:39 I was like, if I find... I was like, if I find an orange, the guests will never know the difference. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:43 You know, we should have got... I don't, I don't know if you've, if this is because of you. I, I don't want to say it's because of you, and I haven't forgotten the iPhone thing. We're gonna come back to it.

David Kibuuka 1:53 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:53 I have experienced an extreme citrus craving.

David Kibuuka 1:56 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:57 No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. I'm, I'm not... I... Yo, he, he, okay, he's my witness-

David Kibuuka 2:01 Yeah

Trevor Noah 2:01 ... because he sees my fridge. My fridge always has watermelon in it.

David Kibuuka 2:04 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 2:04 Always, always, always. Now, I have copious amounts of citrus.

David Kibuuka 2:09 Mm.

Trevor Noah 2:10 And I wonder, I genuinely wonder if it's partly because of you.

Vic Mensa 2:13 You'll never get sick.

Trevor Noah 2:15 Yeah, but I just wonder if, like, you've sort of y- you know-

David Kibuuka 2:17 Subconsciously influenced.

Trevor Noah 2:18 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've-

Vic Mensa 2:19 Absolutely

Trevor Noah 2:19 ... you've created like a-

Vic Mensa 2:21 I need to get a royalty from the, the citrus companies

Trevor Noah 2:23 ... you could, and you, you probably could get sp-

Vic Mensa 2:24 Yeah, for sure

Trevor Noah 2:24 ... you could get sponsored by, like, Big Orange or something.

David Kibuuka 2:26 And after, it can go to avocados. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 2:29 That's... Can you-

Vic Mensa 2:30 That's the real money

Trevor Noah 2:30 ... can you imagine Vic pulling an avocado off the tree? [laughs]

David Kibuuka 2:34 First of all, the tree would be...

Trevor Noah 2:36 Pulling an avocado off the tree.

Vic Mensa 2:37 The real bread.

David Kibuuka 2:38 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 2:38 The avocado, man.

David Kibuuka 2:38 You'd have to get a knife.

Trevor Noah 2:40 [laughs] No, no, no.

David Kibuuka 2:41 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 2:41 No. He still has to use his hands.

David Kibuuka 2:43 Oh. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 2:44 It's gonna be mashed all over the place.

Trevor Noah 2:46 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 2:46 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 2:46 Smeared on my face.

Trevor Noah 2:49 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 2:49 [laughs] And then, you know, once an avocado gets exposed, it turns brown-

Trevor Noah 2:53 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 2:53 ... and then you've been there for long.

Vic Mensa 2:54 Nasty.

Trevor Noah 2:55 Now you can only, you can only, you can only talk about short topics.

David Kibuuka 2:58 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 2:59 For sure.

Trevor Noah 2:59 It's like, you know, when...

Vic Mensa 3:01 And you can't waste a avocado.

Trevor Noah 3:02 Vic is deep.

Vic Mensa 3:03 They're like $10 a pop.

Trevor Noah 3:04 Yeah. The guy's to- talking deep about Iran.

David Kibuuka 3:06 That's an American problem, though.

Trevor Noah 3:07 Thing is turning brown in his hand.

David Kibuuka 3:08 Expensive avocados are an American problem.

Trevor Noah 3:10 Oh, man. How did I-

David Kibuuka 3:10 You know? We don't, we don't struggle.

Vic Mensa 3:11 Oh, you don't, you don't struggle with that?

Trevor Noah 3:12 Yeah, yeah. No, we don't. It's actually interesting. There are some things that cost a fortune in some countries-

David Kibuuka 3:17 Mm

Trevor Noah 3:17 ... and in other countries... A friend of mine who grew up in Zimbabwe, like, born and raised, their whole family, she was telling me the other day her grandmother still refers to avocados as poverty food.

Vic Mensa 3:29 Oh.

Trevor Noah 3:29 So when they're in London as a family, and they go-

David Kibuuka 3:32 Mm

Trevor Noah 3:32 ... to a fancy restaurant, and then they come with, like, an avocado with guava, and the mom l- literally is just like, "Wow." The grandmother, she's like, "Why are we eating poverty food?"

David Kibuuka 3:42 Oh.

Trevor Noah 3:42 And then they try and explain to her, they're like, "No, avocados in London cost a fortune. In New York, they cost a fortune."

David Kibuuka 3:47 So I unintentionally bought an iPhone because I, I got in there, and then usually, like, when you go to a store, there'll be a price underneath the item that you want to buy. So what they do at the iStore here is the price is on the phone.

David Kibuuka 4:02 So remember you used to go on the iPhone, and there'll be selfies of people that have taken pictures of themselves.

Trevor Noah 4:07 Okay, wait, wait, so you were in the Apple Store.

David Kibuuka 4:08 Mind you, when you touch it-

Vic Mensa 4:09 This was me.

Trevor Noah 4:10 This was you?

Vic Mensa 4:10 As a child, yeah. I used to just hang out in the Apple Store and just, like, take selfies.

Trevor Noah 4:14 No, you were, you were one of those people?

Vic Mensa 4:16 Practice rapping in the, in the-

Trevor Noah 4:18 So now the phone's... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait

Vic Mensa 4:19 ... behind the computers. Oh, yeah, I got so many photos of myself, me and all my friends hanging out in the Apple Store.

Trevor Noah 4:24 [laughs] Can you imagine?

Vic Mensa 4:24 Making faces, like, throwing up gang signs.

Trevor Noah 4:27 Did you record stuff as well?

Vic Mensa 4:29 Yes.

David Kibuuka 4:29 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 4:29 I used to... No, no, no. I used to see kids, no joke.

Vic Mensa 4:32 100%.

Trevor Noah 4:32 I used to see kids in the Apple Store on the iMac making an album.

Vic Mensa 4:36 Yeah, yeah. I recorded raps on there, all type of shit.

Trevor Noah 4:40 No one threw you out, right?

Vic Mensa 4:41 They did throw us out.

Trevor Noah 4:42 Oh, okay.

Vic Mensa 4:42 And then we came back.

David Kibuuka 4:44 Yeah. I saw something like that.

Trevor Noah 4:44 Do you know where those albums are? Do you know where the music is?

Vic Mensa 4:47 Facebook. Like, all buried secrets.

Trevor Noah 4:51 I feel like they shouldn't throw you out. I feel like that should be part of, like, the Apple Store's... It, it... How can I explain it? If you create, like, a subculture-

David Kibuuka 5:00 Mm

Trevor Noah 5:01 ... within an Apple Store, that people come in to try and create things so that they can blow up, I argue that's one of the greatest marketing campaigns that's, that's-

Vic Mensa 5:10 It's tight. It's tight

Trevor Noah 5:11 ... You, you know what I mean? There's, there's, like, a cool vibe to... You could... The, that guy in the corner could be the next big thing. That girl over there singing into the little iPhone microphone, she could be the next big thing. And then Apple just has this as, like, a, "Yeah, you never know."

David Kibuuka 5:23 Yeah, but once it becomes a thing-

Vic Mensa 5:24 Yeah, but racism

David Kibuuka 5:25 ... people will spend too much time there.

Vic Mensa 5:26 Oh yeah, racism too. You know what I mean?

Trevor Noah 5:28 So now... [laughs]

Vic Mensa 5:29 Bunch of l- little Black kids, like, you can't take chances with the talent they may have.

David Kibuuka 5:35 This is the issue, Mr.

Vic Mensa 5:35 The, the, the present threat, you know what I'm saying? [laughs]

Trevor Noah 5:38 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 5:39 Outweighs the potential for talent.

Trevor Noah 5:42 Wait, I like that line though, the present threat. What did you say?

David Kibuuka 5:45 Of human potential.

Vic Mensa 5:46 I said outweighs the potential for talent, in the mind of society, for sure.

Trevor Noah 5:51 Oh, man, that's actually-

David Kibuuka 5:52 Deep as fuck

Trevor Noah 5:53 ... Yeah, that's, that's actually deep on so many levels.

David Kibuuka 5:56 Mm.

Trevor Noah 5:57 Because how much risk should a society be willing to take, take for the potential of- ... the great talents. Do, do, do you know what I mean?

David Kibuuka 6:08 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 6:08 Like, if you were, it's easy for us to say it from, like, an institutional point of view. But, like, let's say you saw something in your kid that was scary, but could go on to become the greatest thing ever.

David Kibuuka 6:19 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 6:19 Do you hinder that?

Vic Mensa 6:20 I see it in my kid now. He just smacked somebody in the face yesterday.

David Kibuuka 6:24 [laughs] You're like, "UFC."

Vic Mensa 6:25 [laughs] I'm like, "Yeah, this guy's a fighter."

David Kibuuka 6:28 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 6:28 He could be a champion.

Trevor Noah 6:30 But?

Vic Mensa 6:31 But he just smacked his mom in the face, too. So.

Trevor Noah 6:35 How do you d- how do you deal with that? 'Cause on our side of the world-

Vic Mensa 6:38 [clears throat]

Trevor Noah 6:38 ... that- that's not a story that could be told in that way.

David Kibuuka 6:42 In what way?

Trevor Noah 6:43 The way you just told the story seems like that is the conclusion of it, right? My kid... Or, or I'm assuming. What happened afterwards?

Vic Mensa 6:49 So he is a Taurus, which I'm learning is really the bull. Like, they're very-

Trevor Noah 6:55 Yeah

Vic Mensa 6:55 ... stubborn.

Trevor Noah 6:56 Okay.

Vic Mensa 6:56 My father's a Taurus, but he's patient and maybe a different kind of Taurus.

Trevor Noah 7:01 Okay.

Vic Mensa 7:01 My son is like me, but a Taurus, and so he's, like, coming to blows with things. You know what I'm saying? And now he's in daycare, so those things are people, and he, he sees other kids that have toys. He doesn't have any siblings. He doesn't really... No sharing.

Trevor Noah 7:19 How old is he?

Vic Mensa 7:20 He's about to be two.

David Kibuuka 7:21 Three.

Trevor Noah 7:21 Okay.

David Kibuuka 7:22 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 7:22 He's about to be two next week.

David Kibuuka 7:23 Sounds like a two, three-year-old problem with that.

Vic Mensa 7:24 Yeah, for sure. And he sees-

Trevor Noah 7:25 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 7:25 ... kids with toys. He wants their toy. He tries to take it. The kid doesn't want him to take it. He hits. My girlfriend comes to try to correct him. "Mansa," his name is Mansa Musa. Said, "Mansa, you n- you need to apologize to this kid." He hits her, too.

David Kibuuka 7:43 So does he have the full name, Mansa Musa?

Vic Mensa 7:45 Mansa Musa Mensa.

David Kibuuka 7:45 Or just Mansa only?

Vic Mensa 7:47 Mansa Musa Mensa.

David Kibuuka 7:48 Oh.

Vic Mensa 7:48 Or Triple M. That's the... And, uh, my, my Ghanaian cousins, they call him Triple M.

Trevor Noah 7:54 [laughs] Triple M.

Vic Mensa 7:55 And they've recently-

Trevor Noah 7:55 That used to be a scam in South Africa

Vic Mensa 7:56 ... they've recently started to call him-

David Kibuuka 7:58 And you'd be upon the schemes

Vic Mensa 7:59 ... uh, my nigga.

Trevor Noah 8:00 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 8:00 [laughs] Wait, who calls him this?

Trevor Noah 8:02 [laughs] At daycare. That's like he was, like, in the Smackdown.

Vic Mensa 8:05 No, I got a-

David Kibuuka 8:05 "Come here, nigga. Stop it, nigga." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 8:08 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 8:08 No, my Ghanaian cousins. I don't know what happened. It's like, so once he hit two, and now I post pictures of him, and they respond in my story, like, "My little nigga is getting so big."

Trevor Noah 8:18 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 8:18 And me and my girl are like, "What?" [laughs]

Trevor Noah 8:23 It, it, it has a different vibe in Africa, though.

David Kibuuka 8:26 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 8:27 It's just like a... You know? It, it, you-

Vic Mensa 8:28 It's funny, because they just don't know how to use it right. That's all.

Trevor Noah 8:30 No, that's it. So-

Vic Mensa 8:31 They just don't-

Trevor Noah 8:31 That's what I was about to say.

David Kibuuka 8:32 Who's they?

Trevor Noah 8:32 In, in South Africa.

Vic Mensa 8:35 My cousins.

David Kibuuka 8:35 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 8:35 In, no, but in South Africa-

Vic Mensa 8:36 Af- Africans, too. I mean, South Africans, too. I mean, it don't, it don't sound right when y'all say it.

Trevor Noah 8:41 No, it's true.

Vic Mensa 8:41 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 8:42 It's off.

Trevor Noah 8:42 We, we say-

Vic Mensa 8:43 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 8:43 We will even say, we will say, "Abbo, my nigga."

David Kibuuka 8:46 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 8:46 Which refers often to, like, African Americans in hip-hop.

Vic Mensa 8:50 What does abbo, my nigga, mean?

Trevor Noah 8:52 It means, like, the plural of, like... It's like-

Vic Mensa 8:53 All of my niggas.

Trevor Noah 8:54 No, no, no.

David Kibuuka 8:56 No.

Trevor Noah 8:56 No. Um.

David Kibuuka 8:56 Those niggas.

Trevor Noah 8:57 Th- the, my niggas.

David Kibuuka 8:58 Yes.

Vic Mensa 8:59 The, my niggas.

Trevor Noah 9:00 Yes.

David Kibuuka 9:01 Yes.

Vic Mensa 9:01 Abbo means the.

Trevor Noah 9:02 Abbo is like... Yeah, it's like-

David Kibuuka 9:03 Yeah

Trevor Noah 9:03 ... a collective.

David Kibuuka 9:04 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 9:05 The collective of my niggas.

Trevor Noah 9:06 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 9:06 No, the-

Trevor Noah 9:06 So, so, so it's like saying-

David Kibuuka 9:08 Guys from over there

Trevor Noah 9:09 ... yeah, but it can also be the, the guys in South Africa as well.

Vic Mensa 9:12 So it's racist.

Trevor Noah 9:12 No, no, no.

David Kibuuka 9:12 No, no, no.

Trevor Noah 9:12 It's not. It's not. Because it can be guys in South Africa as well.

Vic Mensa 9:15 It's, it's 100%.

Trevor Noah 9:15 No.

David Kibuuka 9:15 What's crazy about this-

Vic Mensa 9:16 Abbo, my nigga. How does abbo, my nigga-

David Kibuuka 9:17 Sorry, sorry

Vic Mensa 9:18 ... coincide with ubuntu? Does ubuntu-

David Kibuuka 9:20 Just-

Trevor Noah 9:20 Not, not a chance. [laughs]

David Kibuuka 9:20 Pause for one second. Am I on c-

Vic Mensa 9:23 Okay, it's racist

David Kibuuka 9:23 ... are you listening to what I'm saying?

Vic Mensa 9:24 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 9:26 Pause for one second. This kind of talk that you guys are having, it skips the general white market and goes to that white, other white market. Do you know what I mean?

Trevor Noah 9:35 Which white market?

David Kibuuka 9:38 The ultra white, white market.

Trevor Noah 9:38 That's abbo, my nigga.

David Kibuuka 9:40 No. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 9:41 No. No.

David Kibuuka 9:41 Do you know what I'm saying?

Vic Mensa 9:42 So it's not racist.

Trevor Noah 9:43 It's not racist at all.

Vic Mensa 9:45 'Cause now it is, you're a nigga.

Trevor Noah 9:46 No, it's not.

David Kibuuka 9:46 Yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 9:46 No, no, no, no, no. So let me explain. No, no, let, let me explain. Let me explain.

David Kibuuka 9:49 You-

Trevor Noah 9:49 So let me explain

David Kibuuka 9:50 ... named what you learned from-

Trevor Noah 9:51 So what, so what happens sometimes that I think, that I think is beautiful is, as a... It, it's funny. Sort of like the avocado thing we talking about. So as words move around from place to place, as ideas move around from place to place, they take on a different meaning that can be similar, but not the same.

Vic Mensa 10:06 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 10:06 Right?

David Kibuuka 10:07 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 10:07 So the N-word is a great example of that. Because it was never used in Africa, it doesn't have the same weight-

David Kibuuka 10:13 Yeah

Trevor Noah 10:13 ... even though people understand it through a historical context and through a current context, right?

Trevor Noah 10:18 But because there's also a cultural difference, in South Africa, many of us grew up influenced by hip-hop culture.

David Kibuuka 10:26 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 10:27 Right? And one of the things, before you could even, like, speak English, I remember my cousin would be, like, rappe- rapping along to Tupac. And then one of the things you'd say, he'd be like, "Oh, I wanna man. I wanna jelly man. I wanna jelly. Yo, yo, my, my man. Yo, yo, my man. Yo, yo, my nigga." Then you'd, you'd just say that. That's what you just knew you have to say to be in hip-hop.

David Kibuuka 10:45 Those two words were used interchangeably.

Trevor Noah 10:47 Yes.

David Kibuuka 10:47 My man.

Trevor Noah 10:48 And my nigga.

David Kibuuka 10:49 My nigga.

Trevor Noah 10:49 Then what happened was-

Vic Mensa 10:50 True. That's accurate

Trevor Noah 10:51 ... over, over time, if you were s- if you were somebody who was in hip-hop, you were then referred to by people who weren't in hip-hop as abbo, my nigga. So they would say it for-

David Kibuuka 11:03 No, first it was amani.

Trevor Noah 11:05 Yeah, that's true. Amani, that's true.

David Kibuuka 11:06 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 11:06 Which is plural.

David Kibuuka 11:08 The rappers.

Trevor Noah 11:09 Yeah, the rappers.

David Kibuuka 11:09 The guys wearing durags.

Trevor Noah 11:11 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 11:11 Oversized FUBU shirts.

Trevor Noah 11:12 And then, and there's n-

David Kibuuka 11:13 Amani

Trevor Noah 11:13 ... there's no, and there's no... It's not-

Vic Mensa 11:16 There's a thin line between love and racism. [laughs]

David Kibuuka 11:18 Yes, but it's also, but it's also, it's also how you say it. If you say, "Amani ga."

Trevor Noah 11:22 Uh-uh. Yeah.

David Kibuuka 11:23 "Amani ga."

Trevor Noah 11:24 Yeah, now it's... That's the one.

David Kibuuka 11:25 So it's got an, it's got a double E.

Trevor Noah 11:26 That's the one. Yeah, that's the one that's dope.

Vic Mensa 11:28 Amani ga.

Trevor Noah 11:28 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 11:28 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 11:28 That's the one that's dope.

David Kibuuka 11:29 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 11:29 That's like, ah, man.

David Kibuuka 11:30 You're in.

Vic Mensa 11:30 It makes me think about, um, how I learned that race is a false concept and that it's fictitious. I mean, growing up in America, obviously I grew up as a Black man, Black boy before that. At some point was considered biracial, but that kind of fades. And, um-

Trevor Noah 11:47 I forgot about that

Vic Mensa 11:47 ... when I went to South Africa, though, and I'm meeting colored people and with the OU, you know what I mean?

Trevor Noah 11:54 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vic Mensa 11:54 And this is a completely different societal distinction, and I realized that people are considering me to be colored.

Trevor Noah 12:03 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 12:04 And that I'm not Black. And I'm like, "No, I'm Black." They're like, "Uh, you're absolutely not Black." You know? Uh, and it's such a different- ... uh, distinction of what is Black versus what is not Black in South Africa. Then when I go to Ghana, they call me obroni.

Trevor Noah 12:19 Which means?

Vic Mensa 12:19 Obroni means white man. It means foreigner, but it also has a

Vic Mensa 12:23 slightly, uh, like, praised connotation in a colonial sense.

Trevor Noah 12:28 Mm.

David Kibuuka 12:28 Sean Gamla.

Vic Mensa 12:29 You know what I'm saying?

Trevor Noah 12:30 Mm-hmm. Mm.

Vic Mensa 12:30 And so it's like a foreigner, but it's a, a, a bit uplifted.

Trevor Noah 12:33 It's an exalted foreigner.

Vic Mensa 12:34 You know what I mean? An exalted foreigner.

Trevor Noah 12:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vic Mensa 12:36 And, uh-

Trevor Noah 12:37 Mm

Vic Mensa 12:37 ... and, and they'll call me a white man. So I'm, I'm in this house where I'm staying, and the, the man who works in the home sees that I'm about to go outside. Uh, it's like 9:00 PM. I'm trying to go find some food. Ghana's very safe. You know what I'm saying? So I'ma go find some food. I'm like, you know, putting on my shit, and he's like, "Where are you going?" And I said, "Man, I'm about to go get some food." He said, "Ah, ah, ah. Ghanaians, they do not like when white people go out at night." [laughs]

David Kibuuka 13:06 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 13:06 And I'm like, "Me? White people go out at night?" I'm like, "If you don't get the fuck out my way, like, I'm from Chicago. I'm from a very dangerous place. Like, I'm going outside." But I thought that was so funny to me that I was so not a Black person-

David Kibuuka 13:20 [clears throat] Yeah

Vic Mensa 13:21 ... in a Ghanaian context. Like, that I was enough of a white person that I should be fearful for going outside-

David Kibuuka 13:29 It's, it's-

Vic Mensa 13:29 ... alone at night.

David Kibuuka 13:30 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 13:30 Did you go outside?

Vic Mensa 13:30 And I'm... Yeah, I went, of course. But I didn't find shit. They don't have nothing going on at 9:00 PM in Ghana.

David Kibuuka 13:36 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 13:36 It's not even like that.

Trevor Noah 13:36 But can I ask you a q- you know, it's funny you say that thing. Do you ever wonder whether or not the bona fides you have where you're from hold up in another place? Because you see what you just said. You're like-

David Kibuuka 13:46 Mm

Trevor Noah 13:46 ... "I'm from Chicago.

Trevor Noah 13:47 I don't..." You know?

David Kibuuka 13:47 Mm.

Vic Mensa 13:48 Oh, yeah.

Trevor Noah 13:48 I sometimes think about that. I go-

David Kibuuka 13:50 They're like, "Here, there's machetes."

Trevor Noah 13:51 Yeah, but that's- [laughs]

Vic Mensa 13:52 [laughs] No, for real.

Trevor Noah 13:53 "Where do you live in Chicago again?"

Vic Mensa 13:54 I went to, uh-

Trevor Noah 13:55 No, but that's what I mean

Vic Mensa 13:55 ... I went to Jamaica, man.

David Kibuuka 13:56 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 13:56 One time I got to Jamaica, you know what I'm saying, and my flight was, uh, kind of disrupted. I had the wrong passport. My manager had gave me his passport. I'm sitting in the airport for, like, 16 hours. I'm frustrated. I try to sneak in the shit, all type of shit. When I eventually made it there, I got a chip on my shoulder 'cause I'm like, "This was a three-day-long trip-

Trevor Noah 14:16 Mm

Vic Mensa 14:16 ... and I spent the first day-

Trevor Noah 14:16 And you've already lost 16 hours. Yeah

Vic Mensa 14:18 ... I spent the first fucking day in a, in a fucking-

David Kibuuka 14:21 Yeah

Vic Mensa 14:21 ... Montego Bay airport. And so I get there. You know when you're in Jamaica, many places, that, uh, local guys will just try to accompany you-

Trevor Noah 14:30 Yep

Vic Mensa 14:30 ... to get tips. You know what I'm saying?

David Kibuuka 14:32 Same thing in Nigeria.

Vic Mensa 14:33 And so the local guy, he jumps in the car. He's like, "Oh, I'ma tell you where you're going. You're going this way." You know, and I'm like, "Okay." Um, and, and we get there, and eventually he wants his tip.

Trevor Noah 14:43 Yep.

Vic Mensa 14:43 You know? And, and once again, my Chicago thing, it, it clicks on. And as I feel like he's kinda trying to strong-arm me-

David Kibuuka 14:52 Uh-huh

Vic Mensa 14:52 ... into this tip-

David Kibuuka 14:53 Uh-huh, uh-huh

Vic Mensa 14:54 ... I'm like, "What the fuck is you talking about? I'm from Chicago. You not finna..." You know what I'm saying? "Strong-arm me out of shit." And, and later that day, though, I went to the hotel pool, and I'm, I'm like, "Man, you know what? Let me inspect the validity of this I'm from Chicago claim in Jamaica." And so I looked-

Trevor Noah 15:13 Wait, so did you tip him?

Vic Mensa 15:14 Uh, no, I didn't tip him that time, but I looked up the murder rate of J- [laughs]

David Kibuuka 15:22 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 15:22 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 15:22 I looked up the murder rate of Chic- of, uh-

David Kibuuka 15:24 Of

David Kibuuka 15:25 Jamaica

Vic Mensa 15:25 ... Jamaica. [laughs]

David Kibuuka 15:26 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 15:26 I was like, "I'm tipping everybody." I mean, the, the tip would've been, like, 25 cents.

David Kibuuka 15:30 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 15:31 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 15:31 I was like, "These niggas will kill me."

David Kibuuka 15:33 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 15:34 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 15:34 "They should be telling me, 'I'm from Jamaica. You better give me what I'm asking for.'"

David Kibuuka 15:39 So you were like, "Jamaican murder rate?"

Vic Mensa 15:41 "Because we will kill you 10 times faster than you'll kill us."

David Kibuuka 15:43 So you Googled Jamaican murder rate and-

Vic Mensa 15:45 Versus Chicago-

David Kibuuka 15:45 ... and exchange, and exchange rate

Vic Mensa 15:46 ... murder rate.

David Kibuuka 15:46 You were like-

Vic Mensa 15:47 Yeah

David Kibuuka 15:47 ... "It is not worth it." [laughs]

Vic Mensa 15:48 I did the computation and I realized I'm 10 times more likely to get killed by them than they are by me.

Trevor Noah 15:53 Oh, man.

Vic Mensa 15:54 And the tip is, like, 10 cents in total.

David Kibuuka 15:58 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 15:58 [laughs] Oh, man. Oh, fuck. I, I won't lie. I know it's an ignorant point of view to have, but I, I never understand it when I'm in Jamaica. So Jamaica-

David Kibuuka 16:09 What don't you understand?

Trevor Noah 16:09 Jamaicans will warn me.

David Kibuuka 16:11 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 16:11 So when I was in Jamaica, um, it's funny. Our flight was disrupted, so we were supposed to fly, uh, out of Montego. And then they were like, "No, you gotta go to Kingston so you can get out, 'cause flights are changed." And then when we were in Kingston, someone was like, y- they're like, "You don't wanna, you don't wanna go anywhere."

Vic Mensa 16:27 [laughs] They say you don't wanna leave.

Trevor Noah 16:27 They're like, "Don't leave."

David Kibuuka 16:28 I was like, "Yeah, 'cause I was like, "I've never been to Kingston."

Vic Mensa 16:29 You don't wanna be here.

David Kibuuka 16:29 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 16:30 I was like, "I'm gonna go walk around and see the..." And he's like, "No." He's like, "You can't."

David Kibuuka 16:34 I hate it when people-

Trevor Noah 16:34 "You can't do that."

David Kibuuka 16:34 "You can't do that," man.

Trevor Noah 16:35 Yeah, he's like, "You can't do that."

David Kibuuka 16:36 I hate it when people do that.

Trevor Noah 16:37 And I was like, "What do you mean I can't?" Then he's like, "It's not safe for you to walk around." He, and I was like-

David Kibuuka 16:41 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 16:41 ... "Yo, I'm go..." I was like, "I'm from Joh..." I did the same thing. I was like, "I'm from Johannesburg." And then I w- that's when I had the realization.

David Kibuuka 16:48 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 16:48 I went, "Aha. That's the mistake you're making. You're from Johannesburg, so you assume your street smarts hold up in this place. You assume that your tactics hold up in this place."

David Kibuuka 16:59 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 16:59 "But now you're coming here with, like, avocado mentality, and then the people here are just gonna be like, 'Nah.'"

David Kibuuka 17:05 But that's the thing with

David Kibuuka 17:06 being Black, it's... It almost like, it goes with anything. You can either blend in or stick out. So when you're in Europe and you're Black, you're like, "Ah, I stick out." But when you're in anywhere where there's Black people, in Africa, in, in America, you're like, "Yeah." 'Cause I make the mistake of speaking to African Americans like they know what I'm saying. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 17:25 Like they understand you.

David Kibuuka 17:26 Like exact- like they know what I'm saying. I'm like, " [clicking] "

Trevor Noah 17:29 Eugene will literally do that, by the way.

David Kibuuka 17:31 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 17:32 [laughs] 'Cause, 'cause your brain doesn't-

Trevor Noah 17:32 Eugene will switch, Eugene will switch into African languages all the time-

Vic Mensa 17:35 Doesn't make the connection

Trevor Noah 17:35 ... with African Americans.

David Kibuuka 17:36 It doesn't compute.

Vic Mensa 17:37 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 17:37 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 17:37 Yeah, I, I, I get that.

Trevor Noah 17:38 Eugene, there was one day we were with s- and then you said to a guy, you were like, " [clicking] "

David Kibuuka 17:41 Yeah. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 17:42 I get, I g-

Trevor Noah 17:43 And then I said, "Eugene-

Vic Mensa 17:44 I get that

Trevor Noah 17:44 ... he doesn't understand-

David Kibuuka 17:45 Yeah

Trevor Noah 17:45 ... what you're saying."

Vic Mensa 17:46 I get that, 'cause when I just saw a glimpse of you on the screen in the back room-

David Kibuuka 17:49 Yeah

Vic Mensa 17:50 ... I didn't know you were South African until you spoke.

Trevor Noah 17:53 You need to stop speaking.

Vic Mensa 17:54 I can tell, I can tell in time.

David Kibuuka 17:55 You know what I mean, though?

Trevor Noah 17:55 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 17:55 I can always tell. I can always identify the Africans. It's just I can, but, like, sometimes in that first moment-

David Kibuuka 18:01 Mm

Vic Mensa 18:02 ... that glimpse might not give me the whole picture. You know what I'm saying?

David Kibuuka 18:05 Mm.

Trevor Noah 18:06 Wait, where would you-

Vic Mensa 18:07 So I, I could see-

Trevor Noah 18:07 Where would you think Eugene's from? Does he look like-

Vic Mensa 18:09 Philly

Trevor Noah 18:09 ... he's from a part of... Philly? What?

Vic Mensa 18:11 Philadelphia.

David Kibuuka 18:13 [speaking foreign language]

Vic Mensa 18:13 [laughs] Until he did that.

David Kibuuka 18:15 [laughs] Until he did that.

Vic Mensa 18:17 In my mouth. He gets along with-

David Kibuuka 18:18 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 18:18 Until he stood up. I saw his butt.

David Kibuuka 18:20 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 18:20 [laughs] I be like, "This guy's from South Africa. Thickest man on the planet." [laughs]

David Kibuuka 18:27 [laughs] This guy just said-

Vic Mensa 18:28 A gay man would be in heaven.

David Kibuuka 18:29 [laughs] Until he stood up.

Vic Mensa 18:31 Coming to South Africa. He couldn't get- [laughs]

David Kibuuka 18:34 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 18:34 He lies to his fucking self.

Vic Mensa 18:36 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 18:37 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 18:37 Don't let them niggas show up in South Africa-

David Kibuuka 18:40 Oh, man

Vic Mensa 18:40 ... and never go home.

David Kibuuka 18:42 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 18:42 Uh, no, but you're right, though, w- about, uh, going to places and not realizing that, um, your, like, worldview from home-

David Kibuuka 18:52 Yeah

Vic Mensa 18:52 ... doesn't apply. Like, I was in Montreal one time and, uh, walking down the street, talking to my buddy on the phone, FaceTime, got a French girl with me. I'm stunting. I'm like, "Yeah, man, you know, niggas out here, I'm real international. You know, I'm doing my thing." You know what I'm saying? And a man rode by me on a, on a bicycle, on a road bike, and he's just pedaling, and I'm stunting. And the man just, whoosh, grabbed the phone-

David Kibuuka 19:20 The phone

Vic Mensa 19:20 ... and kept riding, fast as hell. I'm so s- so stunned, you know what I'm saying? Because this is a very beautiful place. I'm thinking I can physically overpower anybody that tries to rob me in this place. Um, but I wasn't ready for the crackhead on the bike. And so I chase him, can't catch him. You know what I mean? I, I was going on this wild goose chase to try to find my phone. I'm doing Find My iPhone. I trace my shit to a park full of crackheads on bikes, so many crackheads on bikes. I can't distinguish who-

David Kibuuka 19:53 Your crackhead.

Vic Mensa 19:55 I don't know who's the one that's... My crackhead, literally.

David Kibuuka 19:57 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 19:57 Exactly. I don't know which crackhead is my crackhead.

David Kibuuka 19:59 Your nigga. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 20:00 See, this, this is when it gets racist.

David Kibuuka 20:02 Oh, sorry.

Vic Mensa 20:03 It's, it's-

David Kibuuka 20:03 Sorry. Sorry

Vic Mensa 20:03 ... but, uh, so the-

David Kibuuka 20:04 Sorry

Vic Mensa 20:04 ... so one of them came out, and he-

David Kibuuka 20:06 We're fine now too. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 20:07 [laughs] So the one, one of them came out, you know, and, and I'm like, "Man, this might be the one", you know?

David Kibuuka 20:12 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 20:12 So now I'm racist, you know. I'm like, "This might be the one." And so I'm like, "Man," you know what I'm saying? "Did you happen to... You know what I'm saying? Do you got a iPhone?" You know. And he pulled out, like, a way older iPhone.

David Kibuuka 20:24 Ah.

Vic Mensa 20:24 He's like, "I didn't steal no iPhone. I got... This is a iPhone." Oh, he said, "What kind of iPhone is that?" "I, iPhone 13." He said, "This is iPhone 6, nigga. I'm, I, I'm crazy. Apologize." You know.

David Kibuuka 20:33 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 20:34 [laughs] I'm like-

David Kibuuka 20:34 Where's your girl in all of this? [laughs]

Vic Mensa 20:37 She actually was riding with me. She was trying to find the phone.

David Kibuuka 20:39 Oh, wow.

Trevor Noah 20:40 Ooh.

Vic Mensa 20:41 She was riding with me the whole time. This, this ain't my girl, you know. I, I have a girl, but this was a girl.

David Kibuuka 20:46 Yeah, iPhone 13 though.

Vic Mensa 20:47 You know.

Trevor Noah 20:48 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 20:48 iPhone 6.

David Kibuuka 20:49 iPhone 6. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 20:50 And, um, you know, I wouldn't apologize to the nigga. Whatever. I'm trying to find my phone in this bi- in this crackhead on bike park.

Trevor Noah 20:57 Can I just say, just to interject there, I'm always intrigued by people who present as crazy, say they are crazy, but then request something that is quite logical.

David Kibuuka 21:07 An apology.

Vic Mensa 21:07 An apology.

Trevor Noah 21:08 Yeah. He's, "I'm crazy. Now apologize."

Vic Mensa 21:10 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 21:10 You know, I'm like, "Well, if you were crazy, you wouldn't care about apologies." [laughs]

David Kibuuka 21:14 Also true.

Vic Mensa 21:14 No, for real. He was crazy, though. He was crazy. He was crazy.

Trevor Noah 21:17 I don't know.

Vic Mensa 21:18 I don't know.

Trevor Noah 21:19 Wait, so now here you are in a park full of crackheads, mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 21:22 And, uh, I didn't find a phone. I found some crack, you know. I, I- [laughs]

David Kibuuka 21:27 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 21:27 I try to get the phone. Motherfucker like, "I don't have your phone, but I have crack." You know. And they try to give me some crack. And the police come, whatever, and, uh, all the crackheads disperse in different directions. I didn't get my phone, but I did learn a valuable lesson-

David Kibuuka 21:41 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 21:41 ... which was don't be trying to stunt in someone else's environment-

David Kibuuka 21:47 Yeah

Vic Mensa 21:48 ... 'cause you just don't know what challenges-

David Kibuuka 21:51 Mm

Vic Mensa 21:51 ... you may face.

David Kibuuka 21:51 Nope.

Vic Mensa 21:51 You know what I'm saying? It might not seem as dangerous as-

David Kibuuka 21:54 Nope

Vic Mensa 21:54 ... the streets of the South Side of Chicago, but I didn't know that they rob niggas in different ways-

David Kibuuka 21:59 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

Vic Mensa 22:00 ... in Montreal. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 22:01 The worst thing about, the worst thing about being robbed by somebody on a bicycle is, is that-

David Kibuuka 22:06 It's crazy

Trevor Noah 22:06 ... it's, it's a very, it's a very whimsical way to be robbed.

David Kibuuka 22:10 Mm.

Trevor Noah 22:10 Do you know what I mean? Because, like, if you get robbed at gunpoint-

Vic Mensa 22:14 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 22:14 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 22:14 ... it makes you feel like you were part of something meaningful.

Vic Mensa 22:18 Something extreme.

Trevor Noah 22:18 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if someone pulls out a gun and they're like, "Give me-

David Kibuuka 22:20 A story to tell as well. Yeah

Trevor Noah 22:21 ... give me your phone. Give me your wallet."

David Kibuuka 22:22 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 22:22 No, but even after it happens, if... Let, let's say if people were watching you, there's a certain amount of bravado that you get to maintain.

David Kibuuka 22:28 For surviving a gunshot.

Trevor Noah 22:29 "Wow, man, I, I can't believe you got robbed. I saw what happened, and you were there, and you had to put your hands up, and the person..." Or even a knife, you know. You know what I mean?

David Kibuuka 22:35 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 22:35 When you

Trevor Noah 22:36 get robbed by somebody on a bicycle, it is one of... Because just think of a bicycle, and then the person grabs your phone. You said you were on a FaceTime.

Vic Mensa 22:45 Yes.

Trevor Noah 22:46 So now they're on a FaceTime with this person. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 22:48 I never thought about that. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 22:49 So one minute you as Vic are like, "Man, let me tell you what I'm doing out here."

Vic Mensa 22:53 Whoosh.

Trevor Noah 22:53 And then whoosh.

Vic Mensa 22:54 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 22:54 "Let me tell you what I'm doing out here."

Vic Mensa 22:56 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 22:56 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 22:56 Now they're riding away, but you're in the background chasing them. Nobody looks cool-

David Kibuuka 23:01 Yeah

Trevor Noah 23:01 ... chasing something that is way faster than them. So when you chase another human being-

David Kibuuka 23:05 It also looks unrealistic.

Vic Mensa 23:05 Very whimsical.

David Kibuuka 23:06 You'll never catch a bicycle.

Trevor Noah 23:07 Yeah, when you, when you chase another, another human being, you both are running. When someone's riding a bicycle and you're-

David Kibuuka 23:12 And you're running

Trevor Noah 23:12 ... chasing the bicycle, you just look like a child left behind by something.

David Kibuuka 23:16 Mm.

Trevor Noah 23:16 Like, all your swag-

Vic Mensa 23:17 It was like a clown show, for sure.

Trevor Noah 23:18 It is.

Vic Mensa 23:19 It was a clown show.

Trevor Noah 23:19 It's gone.

Vic Mensa 23:19 All, all my swag with the girl was kind of-

Trevor Noah 23:21 It's gone

Vic Mensa 23:22 ... evaporated.

David Kibuuka 23:22 But I love that she stuck with you, man.

Vic Mensa 23:23 She did.

Trevor Noah 23:24 No, that, that's actually really impressive. It... I almost feel like she was in on it now.

Vic Mensa 23:27 I kind of do too because she then sent me a phone, like, a handful of years later saying that she had found it.

David Kibuuka 23:34 Oh, wow.

Vic Mensa 23:34 And I, I don't know. I didn't buy it, though. I felt like she-

Trevor Noah 23:36 She had found it?

Vic Mensa 23:37 I feel like she just wanted to come to my house.

Trevor Noah 23:38 Vic, you got played.

David Kibuuka 23:40 Yeah, no, you got played.

Vic Mensa 23:41 I got played.

Trevor Noah 23:42 This is-

David Kibuuka 23:42 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 23:42 This feels like a, this feels like a scam.

Vic Mensa 23:44 She's the one that really-

Trevor Noah 23:45 Yeah, yeah. No, this feels-

David Kibuuka 23:45 How did she find the phone?

Trevor Noah 23:47 How do you find a phone randomly in another country? She-

David Kibuuka 23:49 She's from there

Trevor Noah 23:50 ... she doesn't have his Find My iPhone?

Vic Mensa 23:52 She was coordinating with the crackhead the whole time.

David Kibuuka 23:53 Man, you know how the shit we get up to in Philly? [laughs]

Trevor Noah 23:56 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 23:56 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 23:56 Oh, man, you told this guy the wrong thing. [laughs] You told-

Trevor Noah 23:59 So let me ask

Trevor Noah 24:00 a question.

David Kibuuka 24:00 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 24:01 Does, does, does Ghana feel like a version of home now? 'Cause you go, you go there quite a lot.

David Kibuuka 24:06 Mm.

Vic Mensa 24:06 Yeah, Ghana does, man. You know what I mean? I started going to Ghana when I was 11, and so I've, like-

Trevor Noah 24:11 Who, who on your, on your parents side, who's-

Vic Mensa 24:13 My father's Ghanaian.

David Kibuuka 24:13 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 24:13 So father's Ghanaian.

Vic Mensa 24:14 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 24:15 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 24:15 So I've been going back to Ghana for more years of my life than not.

Trevor Noah 24:20 Mm.

Vic Mensa 24:21 At this point, I've, like, developed a lot of my own longstanding relationships-

Trevor Noah 24:25 Ah

Vic Mensa 24:25 ... beyond my family.

Trevor Noah 24:25 I love that. Yeah.

Vic Mensa 24:26 You know what I mean? And so it definitely, it is home. It's, it's the place I've been most on the planet outside of Chicago and probably LA or something like that, you know?

Trevor Noah 24:35 Wow, that much?

Vic Mensa 24:36 For sure. Definitely outside of America, it's the place I've been the most.

Trevor Noah 24:41 What, what do y- what is the thing you find about Ghana that brings you a piece of home that you can't achieve otherwise? I, I, I ask this question selfishly because I've, I've started realizing ... I was talking to Eugene about this the other day. We were walking around in, in Johannesburg, in South Africa, and I was saying to Eugene-

David Kibuuka 24:59 'Cause you know, we thug like that.

Trevor Noah 25:01 [laughs] You told this guy the worst thing.

David Kibuuka 25:02 We walk around. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 25:04 I, I know it is kind- it is thugged out in Johannesburg.

Trevor Noah 25:07 So we, we were walking and, and-

David Kibuuka 25:08 We were walking Hillbrow

Trevor Noah 25:09 ... and I was, I was saying to Eugene-

David Kibuuka 25:10 'Cause we're not scared of anyone.

Trevor Noah 25:12 [laughs] I'm scared.

Vic Mensa 25:12 I'm sure you are, but-

Trevor Noah 25:13 I'm scared. We're scared. We're definitely scared.

David Kibuuka 25:15 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 25:15 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 25:15 No, what I, what I was saying was you take for granted, I've always taken for granted-

Vic Mensa 25:20 Mm

Trevor Noah 25:21 ... how much a place can keep pieces of you and create pieces of you. Do you-

Vic Mensa 25:26 Yeah

Trevor Noah 25:26 ... do you know what I mean?

Vic Mensa 25:27 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 25:27 So the reason I ask you about, like, that home side of things is because there's another Vic in Ghana-

Vic Mensa 25:33 The version, yeah

Trevor Noah 25:33 ... and I wanna, yeah, I wanna know, like, what came out of you because of Ghana that maybe you wouldn't have experienced otherwise-

Vic Mensa 25:39 Mm

Trevor Noah 25:39 ... just being in the US or being in Chicago.

Vic Mensa 25:41 It's much more peaceful,

Vic Mensa 25:43 and it's much slower paced. Like America, we are confined by time. Like, we're obsessed with it. We schedule our days in 30-minute increments. Like, I've got this meeting, then I have this Zoom call, and then I have this lu- lunch, then I have a breakfast. You know what I mean? I have so many scheduled events. Try that in Ghana. [laughs] You know what I'm saying? Like, it's not gonna happen 'cause people don't operate like that. People are not beholden to time in the same way.

Trevor Noah 26:15 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 26:16 A nigga be six hours late for something, and that's just, like, regular. You know, it's-

Trevor Noah 26:20 It's not even late

Vic Mensa 26:21 ... so that's kind of on time.

Trevor Noah 26:22 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 26:22 It's just something to expect. And as I'm spending time in Ghana, there's always a process of, like, low-key decolonizing my mind as it pertains to time to allow things to happen at their own pace more and to stop being so rigidly connected to, to my ideas of, of time and schedule.

Trevor Noah 26:45 Hmm.

Vic Mensa 26:45 And it becomes more of a, it becomes more of a peaceful experience.

Trevor Noah 26:50 Do you think it made you more chilled as a person?

Vic Mensa 26:53 I think when I'm there, but then I get too chill, and then I try to come, like, eight hours late to some shit, and I miss the whole thing, you know? I, I, I'm still trying to find the balance.

Trevor Noah 27:02 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 27:03 You know? Like, how do I fit in this while still, like, accomplishing shit? Um, it's always a little bit of a, of a tug-of-war, but in general though, I do admire

Vic Mensa 27:14 the way that people in West Africa, people in the Caribbean are not, um, so, yeah, controlled by time.

Trevor Noah 27:23 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 27:23 Like, not so-

Trevor Noah 27:24 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 27:24 ... in fear of time.

Trevor Noah 27:25 Time.

Vic Mensa 27:25 I feel like Americans live in a constant fear of missing the moment, you know? But being in the moment is, is the way to not miss the moment.

Trevor Noah 27:34 Yeah. Even, even the phrase wasting time I find is one that is often used in America and in the West in a way that isn't used in, at least in my experience, in Africa or in the Caribbean. You, you can't waste time because time's always happening.

Vic Mensa 27:50 Mm.

Trevor Noah 27:50 You don't have it.

David Kibuuka 27:51 Mm.

Trevor Noah 27:51 You, you never have it. So you're either doing with it w- what you please, or you're not doing with it what you-

David Kibuuka 27:56 Mm.

Trevor Noah 27:56 But you cannot waste time, you know? And so-

David Kibuuka 27:59 Can I interject please?

Trevor Noah 28:00 It, it's actually, I was actually gonna-

David Kibuuka 28:01 Is it possible for me to interject?

Trevor Noah 28:03 Yeah. But I was actually gonna say this about you. I was gonna say you'd be proud to know, you know, 'cause you inspire me to read books about things.

David Kibuuka 28:08 Thought to waste time.

Trevor Noah 28:09 No, no, no, you do.

David Kibuuka 28:10 I was like, yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 28:10 There's a, there's a, there's a book that I read actually that was saying, like, this thing is actually quite real, but it actually goes to, um, the environments that people came from. So-

David Kibuuka 28:22 Mm

Trevor Noah 28:22 ... people in Africa, especially in, like, West Africa, Central Africa, et cetera-

David Kibuuka 28:25 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 28:26 ... the Caribbean never suffered food scarcity due to weather or to time.

David Kibuuka 28:32 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 28:32 So they never needed to develop a relationship with time.

David Kibuuka 28:34 Yes.

Vic Mensa 28:35 Mm.

Trevor Noah 28:35 Because time didn't define your ability to exist.

David Kibuuka 28:38 Yes.

Trevor Noah 28:38 Right?

Vic Mensa 28:38 Mm.

Trevor Noah 28:38 But if you grew up in places like Sweden, England, et cetera, time was the difference between living and dying. If you missed the time of the crops, if you missed the time of planting, if you missed the time of a carriage that was gonna pick you

Trevor Noah 28:51 up in the snow, it's death. So time is more important to Europeans-

Vic Mensa 28:55 'Cause people in Africa and the Caribbean could just go get that avocado-

Trevor Noah 28:58 Yeah, exactly

Vic Mensa 28:58 ... at any time.

Trevor Noah 28:59 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 28:59 Planted their faces.

Trevor Noah 29:00 No, but, uh-

David Kibuuka 29:00 Waited many, many decades

Trevor Noah 29:00 ... but I thought you would appreciate that, Dave. Sorry, yes.

David Kibuuka 29:02 No, I, I do appreciate that. That is, um-

Vic Mensa 29:04 That's crazy

David Kibuuka 29:04 ... that is great.

Trevor Noah 29:09 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 29:09 The, [laughs] the, um-

Trevor Noah 29:10 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 29:10 [laughs]

29:10 No, no. The thing, no, the thing that this reminds me of

David Kibuuka 29:14 is yesterday, Trevor-

Trevor Noah 29:16 The whole thing-

David Kibuuka 29:17 Sorry

Trevor Noah 29:18 ... reminds you of yesterday

David Kibuuka 29:18 ... I'm, no, I'm telling Vic.

Trevor Noah 29:19 Oh.

David Kibuuka 29:20 Yesterday Trevor texted me, and he was like, um, "Let's chat about what we're gonna do with, you know, this podcast," and that whole thing, of today. You know, that kind of thing, 'cause we, yesterday. Then he said in his text, this is related to time. In his text, he said, "I'll call you at 2:30."

Trevor Noah 29:40 I feel like this guy is just using this opportunity-

David Kibuuka 29:42 No, no [laughs]

Trevor Noah 29:42 ... to expose me, but let's carry on.

David Kibuuka 29:44 No, no. No, no.

Trevor Noah 29:44 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 29:44 He, no, this is all part of it.

Trevor Noah 29:46 I'm sure. Yes.

David Kibuuka 29:47 He said-

Trevor Noah 29:47 Carry on, Dave.

David Kibuuka 29:48 Yes. No, no, he said-

Trevor Noah 29:49 It, it ends with me being condemned-

David Kibuuka 29:50 No, no, no

Trevor Noah 29:51 ... but please, please continue.

David Kibuuka 29:52 No, just where we are, the main character over here said, "I'll text you at 2:30." Then he didn't text at 2:30. Oh, he said, "I'll phone you at 2:30." He didn't phone at 2:30. Then he phoned at 7:30. To your point of Africans, no, really. He phoned at 7:30, which I'm also African, so I didn't, when he said, "I'll text at 2:30," I didn't have that like, "Oh, I'll phone at 2:30." I didn't have that, "Oh," you know, at all because I'm African. But when we did get to 7:30 when he called, if you hadn't called at all, I would've been fine with it. I'd have been like- Well, he didn't call. We'll meet the next day. Do you know what I mean?

30:29 Yeah.

30:29 I'll call you at 5:00 to talk about tomorrow. I didn't call you, I'll just assume he's doing something, then we meet the next day. You know, you get where I am as a person? Cool. But then at 7:30, 'cause I've known this guy for many years, so at 7:30 he called me. He did call. But he called... You know when someone sort of, like, calls you when, because they, when they know that you won't, like, really be able to pick up the phone?

30:56 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 30:56 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 30:56 No, this is bullshit.

30:57 No, no, no, no.

30:58 Yo, what?

30:59 No, no, no. Wait, wait.

Trevor Noah 31:00 What if they hang up after two rings?

David Kibuuka 31:01 Yeah, you know that.

31:02 No, no, no, no.

Trevor Noah 31:02 And then you're like-

David Kibuuka 31:02 Because you know he's not gonna-

31:03 You don't even hang up.

31:04 No.

31:04 You-

Trevor Noah 31:04 I won't say anything.

David Kibuuka 31:05 That's what happened. That's what happened.

Trevor Noah 31:06 I won't say anything.

David Kibuuka 31:06 Shall I tell you how?

Trevor Noah 31:07 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 31:07 Because 7:30, you know that thing, where you know we know it. Like, because I called directly after.

31:14 [laughs]

31:14 You know when it rings one, two, three-

31:16 Yeah

31:17 ... and then it goes off, then you ring back directly afterwards.

31:20 And then-

31:20 They should pick up

31:20 ... they're shocked that you called back.

31:21 No.

31:22 Yeah.

31:22 He didn't pick up. He didn't pick up.

31:23 Of course you were shocked.

31:24 No, because he was trying, he was going, "Okay, I can't call him at-

31:29 Thinking about

31:29 ... uh, I can't call him at 2:00 AM because then obviously he's sleeping." Do you know that kind of thing?

31:33 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

31:33 "But I can't call him at 4:00 because then he won't be, like, engaged in something he'll pick up." So then this guy's going like, "Hm, when is a time that-"

31:43 [laughs]

31:43 Like, he's there. When is a time when I know that-

Trevor Noah 31:47 The most dramatic pickup

David Kibuuka 31:47 ... it will be a, it will be he-

31:49 I called

31:50 ... it'll be, I called, you didn't pick up.

31:52 Yeah. No.

31:52 Most likely you in the bathroom-

31:54 No

31:54 ... or I come back, miss c-

31:55 No.

31:55 Then if, 'cause think about it.

31:56 [laughs]

31:56 So I called you direct, two seconds, and then I called again. And then-

32:00 Wait, so he didn't pick up the first time?

32:02 So this is what happens, 'cause I was in a Indian restaurant.

Trevor Noah 32:05 I knew this would be me-

David Kibuuka 32:06 This is what happened

Trevor Noah 32:06 ... being snitched on.

David Kibuuka 32:07 No, no, no.

32:08 But carry on.

32:08 This is what happened. Ding, ding. Then I was doing a thing, then I was like, "Because I'm just fine now." Ding, ding, off. Not even many rings, then I go.

32:17 Ah.

32:17 'Cause it comes back, then I go call back. You know what I mean?

32:20 Yeah, yeah.

32:20 No call. 'Cause then I know this is, he was just trying to do that.

32:24 Tick a box.

32:24 Then... Yes. Tick a box. Then what happened is-

32:27 [laughs]

32:27 ... I stopped, I left it because maybe so, you know what I mean.

32:31 How long did you leave it for?

32:32 Then for, like, two minutes. You know what I mean?

32:34 Yeah, that's a good time.

32:34 Then, yeah. So-

32:35 'Cause you're giving him space to call back.

32:36 To, yes. Then I called again. So now I look like an idiot. Then I, then I called again, and then he didn't pick up. Then, you know, like, you know on, 'cause it's a WhatsApp call, the WhatsApp also makes you feel more thirsty than you are.

32:50 Yeah.

32:50 'Cause WhatsApp says-

Trevor Noah 32:50 WhatsApp tells you if a motherf-

David Kibuuka 32:51 Yeah

Trevor Noah 32:52 ... has been on the phone.

David Kibuuka 32:52 Yes. 'Cause, yes.

Trevor Noah 32:53 Oh, this nigga Trevor Noah was available-

David Kibuuka 32:54 Yes, yes

Trevor Noah 32:54 ... two minutes ago

David Kibuuka 32:55 ... and, and then WhatsApp also-

Trevor Noah 32:56 That's why you ain't picking up now?

David Kibuuka 32:57 Wh- WhatsApp also does that thing where it says-

32:59 Contact

32:59 ... "Would you like to record a voice message?"

33:01 Voice, yeah.

33:02 I don't want to record a voice message. I'm not the one, he's calling me. And then-

33:06 You didn't start this conversation.

33:07 Yes, I didn't start it.

Trevor Noah 33:08 You done it gone. My bad, my bad.

David Kibuuka 33:08 And even the pro- the, the promise of "I'll call you at 2:30," why?

33:11 Yes, yeah, yes.

Trevor Noah 33:12 This is a, this is

Trevor Noah 33:13 a good place to explain.

David Kibuuka 33:15 Why I got a new iPhone?

Trevor Noah 33:16 No. This is, people have very different experiences in life.

David Kibuuka 33:19 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 33:20 And I think one of my gifts has always been being able to understand that everyone is consuming the same reality from their perspective.

David Kibuuka 33:28 Mm-hmm. [laughs]

33:29 Don't make it deep. Don't make it deep.

Trevor Noah 33:31 Let me explain why.

David Kibuuka 33:31 He gonna say I have ADHD-

Trevor Noah 33:32 No

David Kibuuka 33:32 ... or whatever he tells everybody to have.

Trevor Noah 33:34 [laughs] No, let me explain. So-

David Kibuuka 33:37 What if he says AIDS?

Trevor Noah 33:38 I love [laughs] I love, I love your experience.

David Kibuuka 33:40 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 33:40 I'll tell you what happened. This is actually f- this is actually great. It's, it's a very poignant thing to chat about, you know? I feel like Vic will even have great opinions on this. So you are correct, I said to you, "I'll call you at 2:30."

David Kibuuka 33:51 Why did you say 2:30?

Trevor Noah 33:53 Because that is when my previous engagement was gonna end. So I knew, so I knew my thing ends at 2:00.

David Kibuuka 33:57 Oh, you wanted to catch momentum.

Trevor Noah 33:59 So I was like, my thing ends at 2:00. I'll, I can make the call by 2:30. Okay?

David Kibuuka 34:03 And then also remember-

Trevor Noah 34:04 No, no-

David Kibuuka 34:05 ... this is unprompted. I'm not asking for this.

Trevor Noah 34:06 Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

David Kibuuka 34:07 He's not asking for 2:30.

Trevor Noah 34:08 I, I, he's, I'm not-

David Kibuuka 34:08 I'm not asking for this call.

34:08 He saw a 12:00 to 2:30.

Trevor Noah 34:11 Yes, but wait.

David Kibuuka 34:12 Do you know what I mean? I'm not asking for this call.

Trevor Noah 34:12 Yeah, yeah. But wait, wait, wait. I w- do we need to tighten up? Are we-

David Kibuuka 34:15 You know I'm on your side here.

Trevor Noah 34:16 All right. The, um, so-

David Kibuuka 34:18 This guy used to record albums at the Apple Store

Trevor Noah 34:20 ... no, you never know. But I mean, you know?

David Kibuuka 34:22 He's cool with anything.

Trevor Noah 34:23 But you know there's tricks to these things sometimes. There's like a little, you know? So okay.

David Kibuuka 34:27 2:30.

Trevor Noah 34:27 So, so, so this is what I'm saying. The 2:30, you are completely correct my friend. And let me first say, before saying anything else, I apologize.

David Kibuuka 34:33 Ah, don't apologize. I don't accept.

34:34 Ah, he doesn't mean it.

34:35 I don't accept because you're trying to-

Trevor Noah 34:37 No. Wait.

David Kibuuka 34:37 Yeah, no, no.

Trevor Noah 34:37 No, wait. First of all, let me say I apologize-

David Kibuuka 34:39 No

Trevor Noah 34:39 ... [laughs] for, for sending that stupid-

David Kibuuka 34:41 I'm about to pick up. No, no, no.

Trevor Noah 34:43 No. Now, now let me, let me explain what happened.

David Kibuuka 34:44 No, I don't want, I don't accept.

Trevor Noah 34:45 So now let me explain what happened. So-

David Kibuuka 34:46 I don't accept on your behalf.

34:47 Yeah, as you do.

Trevor Noah 34:48 No. So how, no, so how I get around, I get around, I get around riding a bicycle. That's how I prefer-

David Kibuuka 34:53 Can you do iPhones?

Trevor Noah 34:53 Wait. This is how I get a- [laughs]

David Kibuuka 34:54 [laughs] It's him.

Trevor Noah 34:57 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 34:57 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 34:58 You should have looked harder.

David Kibuuka 35:00 [laughs]

35:01 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 35:02 So I, so I get around riding a bicycle, right? Okay.

David Kibuuka 35:05 Mm.

Trevor Noah 35:05 Ride bicycles, ride bicycles. So the thing that I had planned didn't end at the time that I thought I'd planned, whatever. Then I get on a bicycle, so now I cannot make this call. Riding the bicycle, riding the bicycle, get to the next thing. Now I've missed the time. Should have said something but didn't, fine.

David Kibuuka 35:18 You don't have AirPods.

Trevor Noah 35:19 But I also know, no, but I also know, no, no, no, y- making AirPods on a bike is terrible because the wind goes into them. Maybe this new CEO at Apple will fix this. There's so much wind that goes in that the other person on the other side, [mimics wind] . That's all they're hearing. So I was like, "There's no point in making this call." I also knew that my friend, if he was plagued by the time, he would say like, "Yo, yo, yo, we need to chat." But I knew-

David Kibuuka 35:41 I wasn't plagued by the time

Trevor Noah 35:41 ... I knew, no, I knew this. So let me explain what happened now. When I made the call, 7:30, I just finished something. I was done. 7:30, I made the call. I was like, "All right, cool." Now this is a pet peeve that I have that is actually affecting people's friendships, might I say.

David Kibuuka 35:58 Did he leave it?

Trevor Noah 35:58 No.

David Kibuuka 35:58 Oh.

Trevor Noah 35:59 WhatsApp lies about how many rings are occurring.

David Kibuuka 36:03 Ah.

Trevor Noah 36:03 When you phone somebody on WhatsApp-

David Kibuuka 36:05 Wow. So this is now-

Trevor Noah 36:06 But wait

David Kibuuka 36:06 ... this is, this is a deep lie you're about to go into.

Trevor Noah 36:08 You, can I tell you something? Let me tell you something about my pet peeve, my friend.

David Kibuuka 36:12 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 36:12 And remember, I'm the tech guy. Don't forget this. WhatsApp lies to you.

David Kibuuka 36:16 Same one who couldn't call while he was riding a bicycle.

Trevor Noah 36:18 Let me explain, let me explain to you. WhatsApp will lie to you. Your phone will be ringing. You go dial. It'll start ringing on your end, but it's not ringing on the other end.

David Kibuuka 36:27 No, but calling and ringing is two different things.

Trevor Noah 36:28 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

David Kibuuka 36:29 Yeah. You are not right.

Trevor Noah 36:29 It does that sometimes.

David Kibuuka 36:30 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 36:31 But still-

David Kibuuka 36:31 Yeah

Trevor Noah 36:31 ... it will ring on your... So what I'll do, like with Lawrence for instance, I'll say How, how long did that ring on your side? He'd be like, "It rang once." I'm like, "Nah, I've been waiting for, like, 10 rings on my side." We, we tracked this on purpose. WhatsApp will make it seem like it's ringing on the other side, but it's not ringing. You think you've been waiting for long. The other person hasn't waited at... When I called you, do you know how I-

David Kibuuka 36:51 This guy is-

Trevor Noah 36:51 No, but I know-

David Kibuuka 36:51 You know who said-

Trevor Noah 36:52 ... how long I rang for

David Kibuuka 36:53 ... you know the last person who said this? The last person who said this was literally Albert Einstein. Do you remember he said the theory of relativity.

Trevor Noah 37:00 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 37:00 Time is different on one, your side. Time is... This guy is trying to-

Trevor Noah 37:04 No.

David Kibuuka 37:04 No. No, no, no, no.

Trevor Noah 37:05 So let me explain what happened. So, so, so what happens is-

David Kibuuka 37:07 Wait, I don't, but it could depend on the ringtone

Trevor Noah 37:08 ... so on, no, so on his side... No, so on his side, what happens is you saying it rang, brr-brr, and then it was done. I waited for long.

David Kibuuka 37:14 Ai.

Trevor Noah 37:14 No, no, I'm telling you, from my side. It rang, it rang, it rang, it rang, it rang.

David Kibuuka 37:17 How long did you wait?

Trevor Noah 37:18 It rang for a very long time. Then I was like-

David Kibuuka 37:20 You agree

Trevor Noah 37:20 ... "All right, this guy's clearly not next to his phone, and he's not on his phone." Done. Then I got onto a bicycle, so if you phoned me while I'm on a bicycle, I'm now not gonna answer that call.

David Kibuuka 37:32 Why?

Trevor Noah 37:33 I'm not pulling out my phone while I'm riding.

Vic Mensa 37:36 He's on a bike. That-

Trevor Noah 37:37 I'm on a bike, my friend

Vic Mensa 37:38 ... that's reasonable.

David Kibuuka 37:38 It was him.

Trevor Noah 37:39 I'm on a bike now. I'm not gonna pull out my phone. So now you're calling me back while I'm on a bike.

Vic Mensa 37:43 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 37:44 The calls come in. At the-

David Kibuuka 37:45 You see, if you had AirPods, you would've said-

Trevor Noah 37:47 At the end of the journey-

David Kibuuka 37:48 You're like, "Yes"

Trevor Noah 37:48 ... at the end of the journey, then I look at my phone. There are many things that have been missed. But I'm like, you know what? We'll get to them another time, another day, and I know that my friend isn't stressed by them.

David Kibuuka 37:58 No, okay.

Trevor Noah 37:59 And that's how we move on.

David Kibuuka 38:00 No, that's... I, I wasn't-

38:01 Hey, do you have your phone with you?

Trevor Noah 38:02 Either way, I apologize.

David Kibuuka 38:03 Well, well, I was, yes, I do.

38:04 Do you have your phone with you?

38:05 Yes, but, but I didn't want to test that.

Trevor Noah 38:06 He's calling back.

David Kibuuka 38:06 The thing that... No.

38:07 Put it on speaker.

38:08 No, no, no.

38:09 'Cause I wanna hear-

38:09 Yeah, I don't, I don't wanna hear

38:10 ... how many rings versus-

Trevor Noah 38:10 I'm gonna do it right now

David Kibuuka 38:11 ... 'cause I have a theory that it could be the ringtone. You could have those ringtones that go brr-brr, brr-brr.

Trevor Noah 38:17 This is-

David Kibuuka 38:17 And then he's like boop, boop

Trevor Noah 38:19 ... Vic, can I ask you a question? How many friends do you have in your life that might actually be your enemies?

David Kibuuka 38:23 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 38:24 People who are trying to bring you down.

Vic Mensa 38:27 I got a handful of far more sinister frenemies than this.

David Kibuuka 38:30 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 38:30 Okay, let's, let's see here. Let's see. Speaker. It's ringing already.

David Kibuuka 38:34 One.

Trevor Noah 38:35 Yeah, but we're on the same Wi-Fi.

David Kibuuka 38:37 Ai.

38:37 Uh, uh-uh, uh-uh. Now you're looking for... Wait, do it again. When I share your ringtone lapo.

38:42 Go.

38:43 On full volume. Wena, speaker lapo ne? My nigga.

Trevor Noah 38:45 Yes, but we're on the same Wi-Fi.

Vic Mensa 38:47 My nigga.

David Kibuuka 38:48 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 38:49 [laughs] We're on the same Wi-Fi here.

David Kibuuka 38:50 Doesn't matter.

Trevor Noah 38:51 Okay, okay, wait.

David Kibuuka 38:51 A call is a call. 'Cause I wanna hear the ringing versus his ringing.

Trevor Noah 38:55 I'm gonna try again. I'm gonna try again.

David Kibuuka 38:56 Remember, I called you even just before... [phone beeps]

Trevor Noah 39:00 This is what technology does to us in society.

David Kibuuka 39:02 He switched it off.

Trevor Noah 39:03 That's why I'm-

David Kibuuka 39:03 No, why is... [laughs]

Trevor Noah 39:04 That's why we-

David Kibuuka 39:05 You know, this-

Trevor Noah 39:05 In society, guys.

David Kibuuka 39:06 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 39:06 Can I just say-

David Kibuuka 39:08 No

Trevor Noah 39:08 ... can I just say, Vic, let me ask. Actually, you know, Vic-

Vic Mensa 39:10 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 39:11 You know, Vic, this is the perfect segue.

David Kibuuka 39:12 And-

Trevor Noah 39:12 This is a per- perfect segue.

David Kibuuka 39:14 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 39:14 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 39:14 You know, Vic, I, this is the perfect segue for me to ask you.

David Kibuuka 39:17 No.

Trevor Noah 39:17 As somebody who-

David Kibuuka 39:18 No

Trevor Noah 39:19 ... as somebody who uses-

David Kibuuka 39:20 Go back and finish. This shit will never fly, yo

Trevor Noah 39:21 ... as somebody who uses technology

Trevor Noah 39:24 to connect with people, do you ever fear its, its ability to disconnect you from people? And, and, and I, I mean this-

Vic Mensa 39:33 100%

Trevor Noah 39:33 ... you know, so you actually got me. Uh, April 1st, you put out the video. I remember being very sad.

David Kibuuka 39:39 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 39:40 He, Vic put out a video saying he was quitting Instagram.

David Kibuuka 39:43 Oh, when he was playing with us.

Trevor Noah 39:44 And he was quitting speaking publicly.

David Kibuuka 39:46 Yeah, I was upset.

Trevor Noah 39:46 And it was, and it was slides.

David Kibuuka 39:47 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 39:48 Each slide I got more emotional.

David Kibuuka 39:49 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vic Mensa 39:49 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 39:50 I got more sad.

David Kibuuka 39:51 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 39:51 He's talking about all the money he's lost for being outspoken.

David Kibuuka 39:54 Yes.

Trevor Noah 39:54 He's talking about how, you know, it's not worth it anymore. He's just gonna go into a hole and not say anything in soci- Yo, I was deep.

David Kibuuka 40:00 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 40:00 And I was feeling it.

David Kibuuka 40:01 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 40:02 And then the last slide, he was like, "April Fools".

David Kibuuka 40:04 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 40:05 I didn't appreciate that.

David Kibuuka 40:06 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 40:06 'Cause I thought at some point we just get over April Fools, but not Vic Mensa.

Vic Mensa 40:10 That was fun every time.

David Kibuuka 40:11 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 40:12 But no, but you know, you know what it did? It, it honestly did bring up in me... I, I thought to myself, I was like, yeah, but, like, you're putting out these videos at a pretty frequent rate now.

David Kibuuka 40:22 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 40:23 The one thing you can't control is where the videos go, how the videos go, how people even pick out a piece from the video-

Vic Mensa 40:30 Mm

Trevor Noah 40:30 ... splice it together. 'Cause you, you've curated something. You've put out a message, but then there's somebody out there who's gonna take the message and cut it-

Vic Mensa 40:36 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 40:36 ... and, and make it seem like Vic Mensa said this, or make it seem like Vic Mensa said that.

David Kibuuka 40:39 Mm, pick what they like out of it, mm.

Trevor Noah 40:41 How do you, how do you process it, and does it affect what you do or do not say?

David Kibuuka 40:45 Sorry, just for, this is a real thing. Before, uh, you go into that, for those who don't know, let's say my mom was watching. Do you know what I'm saying? Just could you describe the videos?

Trevor Noah 40:54 Oh, yeah. Okay, no, if you... Actually, this, no, this is a good, this is a good point. For those, for those who don't know, it's the, you've seen them.

David Kibuuka 41:00 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 41:00 If you-

David Kibuuka 41:01 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 41:01 I think Dave is secretly telling us he hasn't seen them.

David Kibuuka 41:03 I have seen them. I have.

Trevor Noah 41:03 No, no, I'll, let me tell you what they are, Dave. Dave does this sometimes. He'll be like, "Pretend my mom," but it's really him. So Dave, Vic Mensa, uh, uh, you probably know him from his, his rap career, hip hop, et cetera, uh, fashion, all of these things. But recently, Vic, uh, has blown up online for putting a series or for creating a series where he speaks to issues happening in the world, and I think the biggest thing that's made-

David Kibuuka 41:27 In his backyard

Trevor Noah 41:28 ... in his backyard, or a backyard. I'm not assuming it's his.

David Kibuuka 41:30 Is that your backyard?

Vic Mensa 41:32 Oh, no.

David Kibuuka 41:33 Feel like that's Dave.

Trevor Noah 41:33 So-

David Kibuuka 41:34 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 41:35 And what's, what's made it really engaging is not just the content. It's, like, the style and the, and the way that he does it. So he picks an orange off of a tree.

David Kibuuka 41:42 First

Trevor Noah 41:43 ... and then he walks up to the camera, and he starts discussing something while he's peel- peeling the orange, and then he eats the orange. And-

David Kibuuka 41:51 And sometimes looks at the orange while he's peeling it.

Trevor Noah 41:52 Yeah. And then I don't know-

David Kibuuka 41:54 Which I feel like is very intentional 'cause everyone knows-

Trevor Noah 41:55 I don't know why or how this happens

David Kibuuka 41:57 ... where their thumbs are. But you, you go, sometimes you look.

Trevor Noah 42:00 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 42:00 'Cause that's what made me realize it's a real orange.

Vic Mensa 42:03 Oh, you thought it might have been AI.

David Kibuuka 42:04 Yeah, I thought it was, I was like... But when, when your thumbs were in it, and then you were like-

Trevor Noah 42:08 Yeah, and so-

David Kibuuka 42:09 ... 'cause some oranges are harder-

Vic Mensa 42:09 Oh, oh, close up

David Kibuuka 42:09 ... than other oranges.

Trevor Noah 42:10 They are.

Vic Mensa 42:10 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 42:10 This is true. This is true.

David Kibuuka 42:11 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 42:11 You actually have to think about it.

David Kibuuka 42:12 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 42:13 But anyway-

David Kibuuka 42:13 Yeah

Trevor Noah 42:13 ... these, this, this is huge. Nominated for a Webby now.

David Kibuuka 42:16 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 42:17 It's become... It's, it's, it's-

David Kibuuka 42:18 It's a thing

Trevor Noah 42:18 ... it's become a piece of internet culture-

David Kibuuka 42:21 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 42:21 ... in a way. You know when you know you've achieved that? Is when people parody it.

Vic Mensa 42:25 Mm.

Trevor Noah 42:25 So I've seen people now go to a tree and pick another fruit to do a joke about something.

David Kibuuka 42:31 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 42:31 Yeah, the guy that brought the Jack Harlow controversy to light-

Trevor Noah 42:34 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Vic Mensa 42:35 ... he started it with the tree.

Trevor Noah 42:36 Exactly.

Vic Mensa 42:37 He said, "You realize how this doesn't make sense?" 'Cause he pulled a bag of chips.

Trevor Noah 42:40 Exactly, yes.

Vic Mensa 42:40 Um.

Trevor Noah 42:41 So, so-

David Kibuuka 42:41 And just another question, just a quick one. What are like, just-

Trevor Noah 42:45 Quickly, what are like the range of topics that you sort of would talk about in those kind of videos?

Vic Mensa 42:49 I'm talking about things that are happening in the world, geopolitical things, uh, my mental health, like experiences that are happening in my life, uh, a lot of what's going on in America, African history and events and things like that. Just a lot of the same things I would h- talk about in conversation with y'all, you know what I'm saying? Um, the question maybe originally was, how do you deal with-

Trevor Noah 43:15 Or, or has it affected you?

Vic Mensa 43:15 ... the fragmentation of like-

Trevor Noah 43:17 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Trevor Noah 43:18 yeah. Yeah

Vic Mensa 43:18 ... of your words online? You know, I think part of, part of it for me is definitely doing my best to not be too attached to response, which can be difficult, but, um, to try to stay driven by message, you know what I mean? Try to, try to stay driven-

Trevor Noah 43:37 Mm

Vic Mensa 43:37 ... by purpose. I think about a time I was on your show, like must've been 10 years ago.

Trevor Noah 43:41 Yeah, on The Daily Show.

Vic Mensa 43:42 You know, when I came back from Palestine, and I was on your show speaking about my experience in Palestine and in the West Bank, and how it reminded me of, uh, American racism and Jim Crow. And, um, that was early in the common parlance of discussions about Palestine.

Trevor Noah 44:04 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vic Mensa 44:05 You know what I mean? For, um, for the American populace, you know what I'm saying? And yeah, at that time I experienced a lot of blowback, not particularly for being on your show or what I said on there, but generally for speaking my mind.

Trevor Noah 44:21 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 44:21 You know what I mean?

Trevor Noah 44:22 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 44:22 About, about what I felt.

Trevor Noah 44:23 Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. Shut up. Who are you? It's, yeah, it's the usual. Yep.

Vic Mensa 44:27 You know, and the like people in my team and in my circle that I didn't know felt very differently-

Trevor Noah 44:33 Yeah

Vic Mensa 44:33 ... about that.

Trevor Noah 44:34 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Vic Mensa 44:34 Um, and, and for sure throughout the years there's been so much fallout and consequence and loss of money and loss of opportunities for, um, for being outspoken, like for saying the things that I believe. But ultimately I have tried the opposite, you know what I mean? I've tried to like muzzle myself and, and be silent at times when I knew I had something to offer of value, and that was pretty soul crushing too. You know, that, that didn't like, that didn't lead me in the right direction either. And I feel like maybe I've started to f- feel that leaning into purpose and like being driven by my purpose serves me. You know, that it's bet- it's better for me, it's better for the world. And if people fragment it, if people misunderstand it, if people misuse it, um, that's gonna be a part of it. I'm sure there's been so many times when things that you've said-

Trevor Noah 45:31 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

Vic Mensa 45:31 ... have been manipulated and-

Trevor Noah 45:34 Yeah, I mean, look at what WhatsApp did to me with my friend.

Vic Mensa 45:36 WhatsApp is the culprit. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 45:37 Just that alone. I mean, look at it. We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break. You know what I love about spring? Everything just feels fresh again. The weather shifts, people start going outside more, and suddenly you feel like you should be eating something that didn't come out of a packet. That's why I like going to Whole Foods Market this time of year. Whole Foods Market is your go-to destination to celebrate the fresh flavors of spring with seasonal produce at its juiciest, plus limited time flavors throughout the store. This is the time to get together and share vibrant finds with your loved ones, and you feel it as soon as you walk in. You've got organic bagged salad kits, fresh produce, potatoes, parsnips, radishes, spring onions, artichokes, all the things that make you feel like you've got your life together. And then of course you go in for that and you leave with things you didn't plan for, like a peach apricot rose Italian soda, or those 365 by Whole Foods Market strawberry pretzels that somehow disappear before you even get home. And if you're hosting or even just showing up somewhere trying to impress people, the bakery has you covered. The mango yuzu Chantilly cake, the strawberry shortcake, these are the kind of desserts where people don't ask questions, they just assume that you know what you're doing. And the nice thing is, there are deals throughout the store, especially on 365 brand items, so you can feel responsible while still treating yourself a little, because that's really what spring is about. Starting fresh and then rewarding yourself immediately. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring and save at Whole Foods Market.

Trevor Noah 47:29 You know what, one of the things I appreciate about what you do though specifically is, uh, and I, I, I hope I can frame this correctly. I feel like some people create things online so that they can create more things online. And I, the reason it's hard to articulate is because people go like, "But isn't everyone trying to make things to make things?" No. I think of it like this. Okay, politicians, especially in America I find, spend all their time or a lot of their time campaigning so that they can be reelected-

Vic Mensa 48:03 Mm

Trevor Noah 48:04 ... so that they can campaign so that they can be reelected-

Vic Mensa 48:06 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 48:06 ... so that they can campaign so that they can be reelected.

Vic Mensa 48:08 It's about delivering the services and the promises. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 48:09 Then I go, "Wait, wait, wait. What was the point of getting into power if you never use that power for the people who voted you in?"

Vic Mensa 48:15 Right.

Trevor Noah 48:16 And they go, "As soon as I'm in, yeah, and I, uh, fundraising, I've gotta get more money and, and I've gotta get this," and I, yeah, I go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, but why?" "Well, so that I can get reelected" So that you can do something. You forget the initial purpose of why you came in. It would've been better for you to come in for a single term, do your damnedest to deliver, and just leave. It would've been better for you and it would've been better for, for your constituents. I think there's also something that's happening online where- There used to be a world where people would create things and put them online because they wanted to create things. But then now people create so that people can view them so that they can create so that they can view them so that they can create so they can-

Vic Mensa 48:58 Mm

Trevor Noah 48:58 ... you, you know what I mean?

Vic Mensa 48:59 Mm.

Trevor Noah 48:59 So that's when people become parodies of themselves.

Vic Mensa 49:01 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 49:01 They become caricatures of themselves. They, they, they do things to, to, like, make

Trevor Noah 49:06 you feel a certain way, right?

Vic Mensa 49:08 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 49:09 I don't say this to gas you up. Honestly, I never feel like you're trying to spark outrage. I never feel like you are trying to make something go viral. I never feel like you are ... Like, I don't, I don't feel riled up by your comments, both for you or against you.

Vic Mensa 49:25 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 49:25 And what I mean by that is I don't watch your videos and go, "Yeah, get them Vic," and I don't watch your videos and go like, "I can't believe Vic said..." I just listen to you and I find myself going, "Damn, what an interesting way to phrase that. That's a, that's an interesting lens that he applied on this topic," or, "That's, that viewpoint, wow, I like the way he put that together with..." But, but, but, like, is that ... Am I, am I reading that correctly?

Vic Mensa 49:47 Yeah, no, I-

Trevor Noah 49:47 Or is it just-

Vic Mensa 49:47 ... I, I appreciate that immensely coming from you, man. I'm, I'm just, like, a, I'm a consummate fan of your comedy and, and really your perspective. 'Cause I feel like you're somebody that shows me that mediums are just that. They're, they're avenues with which to express what is contained by the human being.

Trevor Noah 50:06 Oh, damn, thank you.

Vic Mensa 50:06 You know what I'm saying? And that, like, comedy is a medium for sure.

Trevor Noah 50:09 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 50:09 And then late night TV was its own medium.

Trevor Noah 50:12 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 50:13 You know, even this is its own medium. Um, I was watching, like, uh, your newest special, um, on, on Netflix, and I was just like, I was so glad to, to be watching you as a comedian.

Trevor Noah 50:28 Oh, thank you, man.

Vic Mensa 50:28 You know what I'm saying?

Trevor Noah 50:28 Thank you.

Vic Mensa 50:28 Because, like, I'm just a such a huge fan of you as a comedian, and that medium, you know what I'm saying? That, that way of looking at the world and dissecting it. Fucking Martin Luther King realizing he fought for [laughs] bland chicken.

Trevor Noah 50:44 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 50:47 So good. Um, and, uh, and the purpose of it, you know what I'm saying? Is eve- Like, as I've been doing the things I've been doing right now online, it's really in a way been my way of, um, dissecting how I see the world, but also, like, working on writing jokes and, like, making fun of it and having-

Trevor Noah 51:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right

Vic Mensa 51:09 ... you know, ha- having, um, genuine conversation the way I would talk to a friend. You know? 'Cause the world is fucking on fire. It's crazy, but we Black people, man, you know what I'm saying, we make everything fun. We ain't just, like, sitting around suffering about it.

Trevor Noah 51:24 No.

Vic Mensa 51:24 You know what I mean? I'm sure niggas even on the plantation. Yeah, that's, I guess that's what Joy in the Trenches was about.

Trevor Noah 51:29 That's, that's, that's literally what it's about.

Vic Mensa 51:31 For sure. Niggas on... You, you made a-

Trevor Noah 51:32 Yeah

Vic Mensa 51:32 ... plantation joke.

Trevor Noah 51:33 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 51:33 Like, the fucking overseer comes and you, you picking the cotton while he there. As soon as he leaves, you say, "You motherfucking dirty ass-"

Trevor Noah 51:39 Yeah, but it, I think that's-

Vic Mensa 51:40 "... wet hair, wet dog smelling ass-"

Trevor Noah 51:42 I think that's what it is

Vic Mensa 51:42 "... white motherfucker." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 51:43 Well, these are not my words. Let me just say. Vic has just added his own-

Vic Mensa 51:46 I would've been thinking about it

Trevor Noah 51:47 ... he's just paraphrased, uh, everything. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 51:49 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 51:49 Eugene was looking at me like-

Vic Mensa 51:50 Hey,

Vic Mensa 51:51 where's my friend?

Trevor Noah 51:52 I was like, "Who are you?" [laughs]

Vic Mensa 51:54 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 51:54 Wet ass, dirty ... [laughs]

Vic Mensa 51:55 Dirty dog smelling ass nigga. [laughs]

David Kibuuka 51:57 But, you know, something... I've realized that once, purpose is a selfish pursuit. It just when people get to experience it from you, they think there's more to it than there actually is. So for example, the example that you made about politicians.

Trevor Noah 52:14 Oh.

David Kibuuka 52:14 Sometimes you-

Trevor Noah 52:14 Shit, wait, hold on. Say that again.

David Kibuuka 52:16 So purpose is a selfish-

Trevor Noah 52:17 Purpose is a selfish pursuit

David Kibuuka 52:18 ... pursuit. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 52:18 Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David Kibuuka 52:19 So when people-

Trevor Noah 52:19 That's an interesting idea

David Kibuuka 52:20 ... see me and they enjoy it, they start thinking, they make it that, they make the result of your, of your purpose-

Trevor Noah 52:25 Like it was always for them

David Kibuuka 52:26 ... it was always for them.

Trevor Noah 52:27 Okay.

David Kibuuka 52:27 So when a, when a politician is campaigning, just maybe they like being on the road. Just maybe they like the staff meetings and the late campaign and the photo shoots, but they were never about service delivery. They were never about making sure that you get the water, but we see it in South Africa.

Trevor Noah 52:41 This is true. No, this is very true.

David Kibuuka 52:42 These politicians that are good at rallies, and they-

Trevor Noah 52:45 Yeah, they-

David Kibuuka 52:45 ... good at the campaign

Trevor Noah 52:45 ... yeah, they love the life.

David Kibuuka 52:47 Yes, but they never thought they'll have to actually sit down and understand what the budgets are,

David Kibuuka 52:51 how many people-

Vic Mensa 52:51 How do you guys feel about Julius Malema?

Trevor Noah 52:54 W-

Vic Mensa 52:54 'Cause-

Trevor Noah 52:55 I mean, it's-

Vic Mensa 52:56 Yeah, from-

Trevor Noah 52:56 That's like how long is a piece of string.

David Kibuuka 52:57 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 52:58 No, no, no, I'll, I'll tell you why. So the first thing I'll say is-

Vic Mensa 53:02 I see him from my American perspective, not knowing so much.

Trevor Noah 53:04 Okay, I'd love to know what-

David Kibuuka 53:05 Yeah, tell us. Yeah

Trevor Noah 53:05 ... tell us how you see-

David Kibuuka 53:06 Let me tell you

Trevor Noah 53:06 ... how you see him and then we'll tell you.

David Kibuuka 53:08 My nigga.

Trevor Noah 53:10 Yeah. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 53:10 [laughs] Just don't say it.

Trevor Noah 53:15 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 53:15 You just don't know what you're doing with that weapon. It's a brilliant weapon.

David Kibuuka 53:20 For, sorry, again-

Vic Mensa 53:21 A tool

David Kibuuka 53:21 ... for con-

Trevor Noah 53:22 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 53:22 ... for context, before you answer the Julius Malema, uh, question, for those who don't know, Julius Malema is one of the, like, people that people point to, to say that he is promoting the white genocide.

Trevor Noah 53:35 Oh, yeah.

Vic Mensa 53:36 Oh.

Trevor Noah 53:36 Julius Malema, I w- I would say, is, like, our most controversial publicly-

David Kibuuka 53:40 Of course

Trevor Noah 53:40 ... and internationally known-

Vic Mensa 53:42 Yeah

Trevor Noah 53:42 ... politician in South Africa.

Vic Mensa 53:44 Yeah. I mean-

Trevor Noah 53:44 Yeah. He's-

Vic Mensa 53:44 I see him and I love him

Trevor Noah 53:44 ... in fact, when Trump, when Trump came after South Africa, Julius Malema was, like, the thing he held up as, like-

David Kibuuka 53:49 Yeah

Trevor Noah 53:49 ... here's the example I'm using.

Vic Mensa 53:51 Yeah, yeah, because he had the kill the Boer.

Trevor Noah 53:52 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

David Kibuuka 53:53 Kill the Boer.

Trevor Noah 53:53 Yeah. The farmer.

Vic Mensa 53:54 The farmer.

Trevor Noah 53:55 Hoes. Hoes.

Vic Mensa 53:55 Like-

Trevor Noah 53:56 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 53:56 So hot. What a good song.

David Kibuuka 53:57 He did a dab.

Vic Mensa 53:57 I mean, like, it was fi... Yeah, I mean, that's how it felt to me as a-

Trevor Noah 54:01 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 54:02 ... as a Black American. I was like, "I resonate with this, this shit. The beat," you know what I mean?

Trevor Noah 54:08 It does have a vibe. Yeah.

Vic Mensa 54:09 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 54:10 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 54:10 Killer, literally. Um, Julius Malema. Yeah, I look at him not knowing so much.

Trevor Noah 54:16 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 54:16 And I love him. I mean, he, he seems like

Vic Mensa 54:19 he's, he's the one that is, um, fighting back by any means necessary. That's the feeling, the sense-

Trevor Noah 54:27 Okay. Yeah

Vic Mensa 54:28 ... that, that I get from him. When I was in South Africa, something that broke me was to realize that white people are maybe about 10% of the population-

Trevor Noah 54:40 Yeah, I think even less. Yeah

Vic Mensa 54:41 ... in, in South Africa, maybe even less.

Trevor Noah 54:42 Uh-huh.

Vic Mensa 54:43 And hold 90% of the wealth.

Trevor Noah 54:45 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 54:46 Then I think about America, where Black people are about 10%, 13%, and- Once again, white people hold 90% of the wealth.

Trevor Noah 54:54 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 54:55 And being there, being on the continent, you know what I mean, in this cradle of fucking civilization, and seeing that, that freedom was so partial.

Trevor Noah 55:06 Hmm.

Vic Mensa 55:06 You know me? And that the, uh, the ownership of, of the land and the wealth, um, was squarely not in the hands of the Africans was riveting. You know what I mean? The, the, the woman I was with at the time, she had to, like, check me at a, at a point in time. She's like, "You can't just get mad at every white person you see." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 55:27 Damn, that's funny.

Vic Mensa 55:28 You know? And I'm like-

Trevor Noah 55:29 That's funny

Vic Mensa 55:29 ... I'm like, "But why the fuck you niggas own everything?" You know?

Trevor Noah 55:32 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 55:32 And I, and I, and I'm livid, you know what I mean? And then I see Julius Malema, and he's like, "Kill the boar."

Trevor Noah 55:38 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 55:38 "The farmer." [laughs] You know? And I'm like, "That's my nigga." You know? My nigga.

Trevor Noah 55:44 My nigga. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 55:45 I'm my nigga.

Trevor Noah 55:46 I'm my nigga. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 55:46 Yeah, okay. This guy's with it, okay.

Trevor Noah 55:49 So-

Vic Mensa 55:49 So tell me how you guys feel.

Trevor Noah 55:50 All right. So, and Eugene, I mean, you'll interject anyway.

David Kibuuka 55:54 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 55:54 This, this is, this is how I see it. I think Julius Malema, in terms of his rhetoric, has one of the most progressive rhetorics that I've ever come across, and he, and he, he's inspired one of the more necessary conversations, not just in South Africa, but on the continent and in the world as a whole. And the argument, 'cause there's people who won't know

Trevor Noah 56:13 it, is if I distill it down, it is fundamentally this: Can you claim to give somebody their freedom if you do not give them the tools to actually exercise that freedom?

David Kibuuka 56:25 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 56:25 Right? And, and i- if I was to use an analogy here, oftentimes what I think he's speaking about in terms of restitution is he'll go, South Africa's racism, you don't have to go far back. You know? You, you don't have to go back, like, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years.

David Kibuuka 56:44 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 56:44 It's our parents, literally.

Vic Mensa 56:45 Yeah, 20 years.

Trevor Noah 56:45 Like, not, not figuratively. It is literally our parents-

David Kibuuka 56:49 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 56:50 ... who were the last, like, like, let's say adult victims of apartheid.

David Kibuuka 56:56 Apartheid. Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 56:57 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 56:57 And then we were born in apartheid.

Vic Mensa 56:59 In apartheid. Yeah. We're-

Trevor Noah 57:00 And then we experienced democracy and freedom.

David Kibuuka 57:02 And we grew up outside of it.

Trevor Noah 57:02 Yes.

David Kibuuka 57:03 Yes.

Trevor Noah 57:03 And so we grew up outside of it.

David Kibuuka 57:04 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 57:06 But when you, when you look at that, there are many things that the state stole from Black people and all other people of co- colored people, any, you name it. The state stole these things from them, took that, and gave it to the white population in South Africa.

David Kibuuka 57:23 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 57:24 And many of them, and this is something that I think is important to, to say, many of them unknowingly receiving it.

David Kibuuka 57:29 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 57:29 Which is, which is a part of the conversation people don't really have often. Many white people in South Africa were obscured from the reality of the situation.

David Kibuuka 57:37 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 57:37 So they were going, "We get good roads. We get free schools. We get unemployment. Seems like the government's doing a good job."

David Kibuuka 57:44 Opportunities.

Trevor Noah 57:45 And then the government would just go, "Hey, just so you know, man, these Black people are crazy out here. We're holding them back." And the only place they got their reality from was from the government. And so in the same way, it's funny, I remember when I went to the, uh, African American History Museum, one of the things you see, um, MLK talk about is he, in all of his writings, when he's trying to get journalists to come out and cover what's happening, he's saying in his writing, and I, I paraphrase this because I don't know if I'll say it accurate, but he says, "Because I truly believe when our white brothers and sisters see what is being done, w- see what is being done by the American government to Black people-

David Kibuuka 58:24 Yeah

Trevor Noah 58:24 ... I believe that they will stand up with us." So I f- I find it fascinating that even in America, MLK, and then in South Africa, white people were being, were, uh, were obscured from the truth. The, the truth was being obscured from them, right? So they receive these things. The government steals from Black people to make white people live a life that is as, as good and as easy as possible.

David Kibuuka 58:47 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 58:49 Democracy comes, but there is no restitution. There is no correcting of this. You know? The, the analogy I always use with people is I go, "Your house is robbed. The police come. They say, 'Hey, we've solved the case. You, you were robbed, and we caught the person who robbed you.' And you go like, 'All right, so what do we do now?' They're like, 'No, no, we're not gonna do anything now. They're gonna keep everything that they stole from your house, but we can

Trevor Noah 59:12 all agree that this was terrible.'" And you're like, "Wait, wait. That, that's it?"

David Kibuuka 59:18 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 59:18 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 59:18 It's like, "No, no, no, let's, let's start from here now."

David Kibuuka 59:20 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 59:20 "We do agree this was terrible, so let's, let's, let's move forward from here. But we don't wanna take it back from that person because, I mean, two wrongs don't make a right."

Vic Mensa 59:28 This is why I love Julius Malema though.

Trevor Noah 59:29 Right. But the issue is-

David Kibuuka 59:31 Hmm

Trevor Noah 59:32 ... and this is the issue I have with many politicians, rhetoric versus action.

Vic Mensa 59:38 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 59:39 Maybe I'm an outlier in saying this. Maybe I'm not. I think Julius Malema and many other politicians like him, not just in South Africa, but on the African continent, have fantastic rhetoric.

Vic Mensa 59:48 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 59:49 But the actions that they participate in do not necessarily do what they need to do to liberate the people that they're trying to liberate.

David Kibuuka 59:56 So I think, I think mostly it's a timing thing. So there's a strange thing about South African history that if you tell it the way it is-

Vic Mensa 1:00:02 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 1:00:02 ... you run the risk of being an apologist for the Afrikaner apartheid system.

Trevor Noah 1:00:07 Oh, that's interesting.

David Kibuuka 1:00:07 Because it starts in three parts. So the first part was the British, who oppressed the Black people, the Khoisan indigenous people of the country, and the Afri- and, and the, and the Black people.

Trevor Noah 1:00:17 Right.

David Kibuuka 1:00:18 And then when the British were like, "Okay, now you can have your own republic," and they left, they left the whole system to the Afrikaner. Then the Afrikaner started-

Trevor Noah 1:00:25 The Dutch at the time

David Kibuuka 1:00:25 ... the Dutch.

Trevor Noah 1:00:25 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 1:00:26 Yes.

Vic Mensa 1:00:26 Mm-hmm.

David Kibuuka 1:00:26 So they were like, "Okay, now we're gonna run this thing our way." And then they took the system that the British had and gave it a name. So before, it was just colonization, and then they called it apartheid. But now they were like, "Okay, now we're gonna promote two races here. Colored people will be the second-

Trevor Noah 1:00:41 Yeah

David Kibuuka 1:00:41 ... and then we'll be the first one, which is the Afrikaner." But even in the Afrikaners, not all Afrikaners benefited from apartheid. There was elitism as well. It went with surnames-

Trevor Noah 1:00:51 Mm

David Kibuuka 1:00:51 ... and which people were prestigious and who was educated. Because when it was first formed, there was a first group that was sent to Holland to go study architecture, literature, and art to create the Pernif paintings that we see that were all in government buildings, to create the architecture of the parliament and the union buildings. And the rich people gave up land, which is now owned by the state. Pretoria Hartbeespoort Dam-

Vic Mensa 1:01:14 Wow

David Kibuuka 1:01:14 ... were all owned by the elite who were connected with Netherlands or with Dutchland. So Afrikaans people did not just benefit. So what we see as historical suburbs and schools that are Model C, that we call Model C-

Vic Mensa 1:01:27 Yeah, yeah

David Kibuuka 1:01:27 ... which were the first to get integrated,

David Kibuuka 1:01:29 was because they were not protected by privilege. Those were working class neighborhoods-

Vic Mensa 1:01:34 Oh

David Kibuuka 1:01:34 ... where they put a stadium here and a school here. So the integration happened there first. So it was harder to penetrate the big-ass mansion suburbs that the elite people that owned the mines and the land and the farms were living in, and it will never happen in our country. So the second part about what I find, which is a weird social experiment with Julius Malema and the EFF, is revolution can never happen in a democratic society, and that kind of rhetoric of revolution. Remember that these guys grew up in the ANC of Peter Mokaba, who was a firebrand, who was the next spoken-up person after Nelson Mandela, and he just happened to be a young person when Nelson Mandela was released, and they grew up under him. So their rhetoric about what democracy... I mean, what revolution is and what freedom is, was mistimed. Because in the middle of democracy you can't shout those words-

Vic Mensa 1:02:22 Oh, that's interesting

David Kibuuka 1:02:22 ... while you yourself are in a Range Rover and a Mercedes Benz and living in old historic suburbs and your children are enjoying private schools. So his voice got lost in there. The second part about that group was he was not a lone wolf. There were two other guys who were involved in the building of the party that people liked as if it was a boy band. So there was, uh, the academic, which is Mbuyisa, Dr. Mbuyiseni Ndlozi. And there was another person who loves finance and academic, which is Floyd Shivambu. And those people left the party, and he was left alone to become a dictator.

Vic Mensa 1:02:53 Julius Malema, yeah.

David Kibuuka 1:02:53 Yes. But the funny part about that is there was an inquiry now in South Africa, and there was a parliamentary panel of it, which he, everyone expected to be the chair of it. He refused to be the chair of it, and he recused himself from a lot of testimonies of corrupt policemen that involved him.

Vic Mensa 1:03:09 Mm-hmm.

David Kibuuka 1:03:10 So he's losing the fight over and over. And right now, two weeks ago, he was found guilty of discharging a firearm in a rally. And he was charged, and he's gonna face time. So-

Vic Mensa 1:03:19 Julius Malema

David Kibuuka 1:03:19 ... yeah, he was sentenced

David Kibuuka 1:03:20 to five years.

Vic Mensa 1:03:20 Well, he said, "The farmer."

David Kibuuka 1:03:22 Yeah, then he go bra, bra, bra, brr, pa.

Vic Mensa 1:03:24 And then he shot the guy. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:03:24 Brr, pa.

Vic Mensa 1:03:24 That's my favorite part of the song.

David Kibuuka 1:03:26 [laughs] Well, yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:03:27 Now he's now serving time for it.

David Kibuuka 1:03:28 Yeah. So if, if he, if, if he was convicted and charged for, for helping a person who was being mistreated because of their race, I would be like, "Okay."

Trevor Noah 1:03:38 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 1:03:38 But for breaking the Firearms Control Act, discharging a machine gun in a-

Vic Mensa 1:03:42 See, this is funny. This is funny.

David Kibuuka 1:03:43 Mm.

Vic Mensa 1:03:43 This brings me to one of my other realizations about South A-

David Kibuuka 1:03:46 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:03:46 ... South Africa. It's so different.

Trevor Noah 1:03:47 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:03:48 Uh, I was learning about the hip hop artists, and they were like, "Man, in South Africa, being a hip hop artist and, uh, being a gangster is actually, like, a demerit to your career because it makes you seem, uh, less commercially viable." Because to hear about, uh, a well-known public figure going to jail for saying, "Brr, pa," and discharging a firearm-

Trevor Noah 1:04:08 That's so funny

Vic Mensa 1:04:08 ... this connects to things I like about artists. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:04:11 This is so funny

Vic Mensa 1:04:12 ... this connects to things that seem very familiar to me.

Trevor Noah 1:04:15 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:04:15 Like, man, South Africa was- showed me so much, bro. I was like, uh, first of all, I just think the entire idea of Afrikaners is hilarious. So you just a white nigga that put a extra A in your name? [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:04:27 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:04:27 And now you think you're an African? You're fucking Dutch. Like-

Trevor Noah 1:04:31 And French

Vic Mensa 1:04:31 ... go- and French, and go the fuck home to those two very distinct places. I look at fucking Elon Musk's, uh, loose-skin, Sith Lord-ass father-

Trevor Noah 1:04:42 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:04:42 ... who sits there and he says-

Trevor Noah 1:04:44 No, man. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:04:44 ... "Uh, America's becoming darker by the minute. Well, why would they want to do that? Do they want to go back to the jungle?" It's like, nigga, you got a place you could go back to, the Netherlands. That's right. They'll, they'll welcome you with fucking open arms. I just-

Trevor Noah 1:04:59 What's funny is they don't. That's, that's what-

Vic Mensa 1:05:00 Oh, they really don't.

Trevor Noah 1:05:01 No. That's the funny thing about the story that people forget-

David Kibuuka 1:05:03 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:05:04 ... is many of the original Dutch settlers who came to South Africa were outcasts.

David Kibuuka 1:05:09 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:05:10 The Netherlands was like, "We don't want these people." The same way the original people who settled in Australia-

David Kibuuka 1:05:13 Australia

Trevor Noah 1:05:14 ... were the outcasts. They were like, "We don't want these people."

Vic Mensa 1:05:14 They should go claim a new state and claim, uh-

Trevor Noah 1:05:18 Yeah, but, but to Eugene's

Trevor Noah 1:05:19 point-

Vic Mensa 1:05:19 [laughs] In, uh-

Trevor Noah 1:05:19 ... I think, I think the key thing that we lose in a lot of these conversations, and that's funny enough I think why many of your vis- videos have res- resonated with people, is when you peel back-

David Kibuuka 1:05:31 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:05:31 ... metaphorically and literally the layers-

David Kibuuka 1:05:33 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:05:34 ... class is the one thing that emerges constantly and consistently.

David Kibuuka 1:05:38 And it's not going anywhere, yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:05:40 True.

Trevor Noah 1:05:40 Do you get what I'm saying?

David Kibuuka 1:05:40 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:05:40 True.

Trevor Noah 1:05:41 So to your point, race being a fiction, it's like, yeah, it is, it is... You know, it's a subjective reality.

David Kibuuka 1:05:47 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:05:47 So race doesn't exist, but it also does.

Vic Mensa 1:05:49 But racism is, is very real.

Trevor Noah 1:05:52 Yeah, yeah.

David Kibuuka 1:05:52 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:05:52 The effects of race are very real.

Trevor Noah 1:05:54 Completely.

David Kibuuka 1:05:54 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:05:54 And race is a subjective, amorphous-

Trevor Noah 1:05:56 There you go.

David Kibuuka 1:05:57 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:05:57 There you go. But class, there's a, there's a, um, an English writer who said it beautifully one day. And sh- and she said, she said, "I cannot wait for the United States to finish its race war so that it can realize that it was fighting about class all along."

David Kibuuka 1:06:14 Class all along, yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:06:15 The entire time. But race was the, was the justification-

Trevor Noah 1:06:17 Yeah. No, and it's brilliant

Vic Mensa 1:06:18 ... for the creation of the, of class distinctions.

Trevor Noah 1:06:21 Class will always look for a thing.

David Kibuuka 1:06:22 But you've seen it-

Vic Mensa 1:06:22 For sure

David Kibuuka 1:06:23 ... in a, in a, in, in South Africa where there would be a... Our uncles or our dads would be working in a factory with white people.

Trevor Noah 1:06:30 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 1:06:30 And they would be great friends because of the class that they find themselves in.

Trevor Noah 1:06:32 Yeah, yeah. There's a solidarity in that class.

Vic Mensa 1:06:34 Mm.

David Kibuuka 1:06:34 And then one day your uncle would go visit his white friend's suburb, and he'd be like, "You are poorer than me." They'd be like, "But we work at the same place, and we earn the earn s- same salary."

Trevor Noah 1:06:43 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 1:06:44 It's like, uh, it's about classism. I've seen it the same way where-

Vic Mensa 1:06:46 And the class distinction in South Africa-

Trevor Noah 1:06:49 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

Vic Mensa 1:06:49 ... is fucking so shocking. Like, I-

David Kibuuka 1:06:51 Have you seen how white people in South Africa will treat a white beggar?

Vic Mensa 1:06:53 Oh, no, I haven't seen-

Trevor Noah 1:06:54 Yeah, worse than-

Vic Mensa 1:06:55 ... I haven't seen the white beggar.

David Kibuuka 1:06:55 I would, I would argue most of the time worse than black people.

Vic Mensa 1:06:57 I, I missed them. I was going to, uh-

David Kibuuka 1:06:58 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:06:58 ... to Soweto, and I was stopping by ... uh, my friend's family home.

Trevor Noah 1:07:05 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:07:05 And her uncle was massively wealthy. I had never seen this level of wealth except maybe in the homes of Jay-Z and Kanye.

Trevor Noah 1:07:14 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:07:15 And I asked what he did, you know? And he made his fortune selling toilet paper to the prisons. Interestingly, the same private prison companies that own facilities in America, GEO Group, CoreCivic, they own private prisons in South Africa.

Trevor Noah 1:07:33 Yep.

Vic Mensa 1:07:33 So they profit from the same confinement, destruction-

Trevor Noah 1:07:37 Yeah. Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:07:37 ... of Black bodies.

Trevor Noah 1:07:38 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:07:39 And I saw him making his fortune supplying those prisons as a way of shucking and jiving, for sure.

Trevor Noah 1:07:45 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:07:46 I go to Soweto, I'm going to get shisa nyama. You know what I mean? I'm-

Trevor Noah 1:07:51 Man

Vic Mensa 1:07:51 ... I'm catching my vibe, and this man jumps out, once again, like, to try to get me a parking spot.

Trevor Noah 1:07:58 Yeah, yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:07:58 You know, help me for a tip.

Trevor Noah 1:07:59 Okay, yes. Yeah, yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:07:59 And he was singing this song. He said,

Vic Mensa 1:08:01 "My name is Jack, I live in a shack. I might be Black, but I got a six-pack."

Trevor Noah 1:08:05 Did he-

Vic Mensa 1:08:05 And, uh, yeah, he had... That was his song. I remember it vividly.

Trevor Noah 1:08:08 No, a six-pack?

Vic Mensa 1:08:08 Um, oh, he was so hungry he had a six-pack.

Trevor Noah 1:08:11 Damn.

Vic Mensa 1:08:12 You know what I'm saying? And I was like-

Trevor Noah 1:08:13 Mm

Vic Mensa 1:08:13 ... th- he's really shucking and jiving.

Trevor Noah 1:08:15 Damn.

Vic Mensa 1:08:15 And it was crazy-

Trevor Noah 1:08:16 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:08:16 ... though, because I was like, damn, for a Black man to, to, to make it, to put food in his body in, in this society, I'm seeing shucking and jiving on a street level, and even the richest nigga is shucking and jiving though, like-

Trevor Noah 1:08:33 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:08:34 ... y- to achieve this momentous wealth. And that, that shit kind of, it frustrated me, man.

Trevor Noah 1:08:41 But I argue, though. But I argue, though, those are two spikes from a multi-pronged, uh, world because South Africa's, I mean, far from perfect. Don't get me wrong. But I will say only thanks to traveling I have come to appreciate how many more paths are starting to appear for Black people.

David Kibuuka 1:09:05 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:09:06 So there are, there are Black people who've, let's not even call it a fortune, 'cause not every person has made a fortune. There are Black people who are just, like, doing it th- you know, a, a completely different way. Like, you know, uh, I can think of, like, a woman who started out selling, you know, what we call a magwinya, but let's say, like, a version of, like, a fried donut type thing.

David Kibuuka 1:09:26 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:09:27 On the street corner, selling it out of a bucket, doing it. And then you go back there today and you're like, "Oh, wow, now she has, like, a, like, a store and an enterprise-

David Kibuuka 1:09:34 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:09:34 ... and she's running this thing." And, and then on the other hand you have accountants and you have lawyers. You still have a guy on the street begging and doing this.

David Kibuuka 1:09:40 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:09:40 And I, I, I'm not saying it's perfect, but what I, what I have appreciated about it is, is that it's, it's sort of, it's reminded me of the class story as opposed to the race story. And, and what I mean by that is even in South Africa... So you see what you said earlier in the conversation about Ghana, where they'll say, "Ah, white man," and they have a name for it. What did you say it is?

Vic Mensa 1:10:03 Obroni.

Trevor Noah 1:10:04 Say again?

Vic Mensa 1:10:04 Obroni.

Trevor Noah 1:10:05 Yeah, obroni.

David Kibuuka 1:10:06 In, in Nigeria it's oyinbo.

Trevor Noah 1:10:07 Oyinbo.

Vic Mensa 1:10:07 Yeah, I even have it on my T-shirt, obroni.

Trevor Noah 1:10:09 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:10:09 Man, I've been fighting over obroni my whole fucking life.

Trevor Noah 1:10:11 And then with us we have ngamla.

David Kibuuka 1:10:13 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:10:13 Or likho.

David Kibuuka 1:10:15 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:10:16 But it's said as like a, it's like, "Oh, you have achieved-

David Kibuuka 1:10:19 You've made it

Trevor Noah 1:10:19 ... you have achieved so much that you are now in the echelon of the white man."

David Kibuuka 1:10:23 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:10:24 That, that is how well you've done.

David Kibuuka 1:10:26 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:10:27 What I appreciate is, like, over time, not tomorrow, I think that slowly disappears. That slowly becomes, you know? And then we, we get away from it, and then hopefully we go, "Oh, okay, now we're just dealing with, like, a class thing." 'Cause without, without that we don't go anywhere.

David Kibuuka 1:10:43 Yeah, I also feel like, um,

David Kibuuka 1:10:47 South Africa was just built on a lot of systemic corruption as well. Like, a lot of stuff was given to people and businesses were given to people that didn't deserve it, and as soon as someone gets caught, the whole value chain doesn't get caught. So for example, in South Africa when apartheid ended, a lot of buildings were given to people who were literally children who didn't know what they were doing. They were just given these build- these title deeds of these buildings. So as they grew up as adults, they end up inheriting these buildings-

Trevor Noah 1:11:16 Yeah

David Kibuuka 1:11:16 ... owning them. So when the state wants the building they have to buy the building from them, right? So now you see it with, um, people who are got, are caught, like for example, there's a, there's the system called the tendering system where we come and then we bid. Whoever has the lowest price gets to supply the goods.

Trevor Noah 1:11:31 They have it here in America as well.

David Kibuuka 1:11:32 You have it as well?

Trevor Noah 1:11:32 Yeah, they have it in the US.

David Kibuuka 1:11:33 So the toilet paper story, he's probably a tenderpreneur. He probably put in a bid and then-

Trevor Noah 1:11:38 Yeah

David Kibuuka 1:11:38 ... someone tipped him, and then he got the thing. But the thing is what happened with that money is the money buys houses, buys cars, but the dealerships are not owned, luxury dealerships are not owned by Black people. Luxury estate agents are not Black people. So the money still circulates amongst the same people again.

Trevor Noah 1:11:54 The story always ends with the people people want it to end with. It's a-

David Kibuuka 1:11:56 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:11:57 You know, it reminds me of Miami. I always found it interesting that, like, every documentary that would teach you about the drug trade in Miami-

David Kibuuka 1:12:04 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:12:04 ... will, will talk about the money that drug dealers were spending.

David Kibuuka 1:12:07 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:12:07 You know? These Colombian drug lords and these-

David Kibuuka 1:12:10 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:12:10 But they never talk about the fact that the money went somewhere.

David Kibuuka 1:12:13 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:12:14 Corruption needs a cycle.

David Kibuuka 1:12:17 Yep.

Trevor Noah 1:12:17 You can't be corrupt alone. Just, you know when people will be like-

Vic Mensa 1:12:20 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:12:20 ... "Africa, Africa's so corrupt."

David Kibuuka 1:12:21 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:12:21 And I'm like, "With who?"

Vic Mensa 1:12:22 You ever seen that video of the so-called African politician who was like, "Corruption is not bad. It is only bad if I'm not

Vic Mensa 1:12:30 a part of it."

David Kibuuka 1:12:30 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:12:31 "If I am a part of that corruption, I defend it."

David Kibuuka 1:12:33 Yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:12:34 Yeah. But corruption, corruption-

David Kibuuka 1:12:36 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:12:36 ... with, corruption cannot be alone.

David Kibuuka 1:12:38 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:12:38 So when people go, "Africa is corrupt" I'm always like-

David Kibuuka 1:12:40 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:12:40 ... "Yes, but with who?"

David Kibuuka 1:12:41 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:12:42 You look at the stories. There'll be corruption.

David Kibuuka 1:12:44 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:12:44 There'll be an arms deal that's, that's corrupt with a French company.

David Kibuuka 1:12:48 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:12:48 Like a massive... We're not talking about, like, like, a mom and pop store.

David Kibuuka 1:12:51 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:12:52 Talking about, like, a French arms contractor.

Vic Mensa 1:12:54 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:12:54 It'll be with an American company. It'll be with, like a... Then you're like, oh, okay. There are outside forces that are really powerful that know they can come into Africa- Do deals with certain people, but then leave the corruption story-

Vic Mensa 1:13:08 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:13:08 ... in Africa

Vic Mensa 1:13:09 And, and, but still be the puppet master. I mean, that's the-

Trevor Noah 1:13:12 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Vic Mensa 1:13:12 ... that's the-

David Kibuuka 1:13:12 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:13:13 Oh, yeah, for sure

Vic Mensa 1:13:13 ... the whole long-term strategy is to be able to keep the system of corruption going without having to be the face of it.

Trevor Noah 1:13:20 Oh, yeah, for sure.

David Kibuuka 1:13:21 Mm.

Vic Mensa 1:13:21 You know? Even, like-

David Kibuuka 1:13:22 Mm

Vic Mensa 1:13:22 ... one of the common conversations between Africans and Black Americans is, uh, the idea that Africans, you guys sold your own. You sold us into slavery, and this is a common point of contention. Um, when I was studying, man, this book called, uh, How Europe Underdeveloped Africa-

Trevor Noah 1:13:41 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:13:41 ... by Walter Rodney, he illustrates so clearly the way that the Europeans stifled every mode of legitimate trade so that African states, nations, empires were left with only the option to deal in the most corrupt trade-

David Kibuuka 1:14:00 Damn

Vic Mensa 1:14:00 ... to deal in slaves. So certain, like, Dahomey kings sent emissaries to Portugal to request that the trade in slaves end and that they change to legitimate trade in goods, and Portugal was like, "Fuck no. We're cutting off all land routes. You can no longer-

David Kibuuka 1:14:20 No ways

Vic Mensa 1:14:20 ... you can't trade with your neighbors. We have superior naval capability. We're cutting off the sea.

David Kibuuka 1:14:25 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:14:25 You can't trade by sea. The only option we're going to leave you is that you trade in slaves." And, and the system of slavery that was, which is the system of corruption that was brought to the continent, was so wide-reaching, and it was so pervasive and all-encompassing that no uni- no, uh, single African state really had the agency to fully reject the system of slavery. So you end up in this place where, I mean, all your options have been exhausted. You know what I mean? And you're forced into slavery. But then it's so insidious because it leaves the idea even amongst yourself and your progeny and-

Trevor Noah 1:15:05 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:15:05 ... your descendants-

Trevor Noah 1:15:06 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:15:06 ... that you-

Trevor Noah 1:15:07 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:15:07 ... were the source of the corruption-

David Kibuuka 1:15:09 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:15:10 ... that led to your current state of destitution.

David Kibuuka 1:15:12 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:15:12 But really, it's just, it's still the puppet master. I mean, it's still the, the, the French national corporation-

David Kibuuka 1:15:18 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:15:18 ... that's trading arms with the rebel group that's fighting back against Burkina Faso's Ibrahim Traore. You know what I mean? It's still, like, a shadowy puppet master for sure-

David Kibuuka 1:15:29 Mm

Vic Mensa 1:15:29 ... that's funding all of the shit. But they want us to believe that Africa is so corrupt so that we think we're the source of our suffering.

Trevor Noah 1:15:37 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:15:38 You know what I mean?

Trevor Noah 1:15:38 That's one of the reasons I appreciate Donald Trump.

David Kibuuka 1:15:41 Jesus, plot twist.

Trevor Noah 1:15:43 No, for real.

Vic Mensa 1:15:44 I feel you, though.

Trevor Noah 1:15:44 Can I tell you, one of the reasons I appreciate him-

David Kibuuka 1:15:47 That's true

Trevor Noah 1:15:47 ... is that he has not ... Maybe, 'cause I don't think he understands why it's necessary, he's not participated in the farce-

Vic Mensa 1:15:57 Right

Trevor Noah 1:15:58 ... that has kept people seeing the world a certain way.

David Kibuuka 1:16:01 Explain.

Trevor Noah 1:16:02 Okay, so let's look at Venezuela as an example.

David Kibuuka 1:16:04 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:16:06 What did Trump originally say the whole Venezuela beef was about? He said, "The way this man treats his people." You know? He's talking about Maduro.

David Kibuuka 1:16:14 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:16:14 "Nicolás Maduro doing these things to his people. How can he do this? Freedom, democracy, we gotta..." You know what I mean? The people of the, the people of the country. They ousted Maduro, okay? They get Maduro, he's out. He's now in a prison-

David Kibuuka 1:16:29 Cuba

Trevor Noah 1:16:29 ... in the United States. What does Trump say afterwards? People go like, "So regime change? Are we... " He's like, "No, the people in there real happy. They're gonna let American companies in, and we're very happy." And you go, "Yeah, but what about the people? Remember you said the peop- " There were people cheering, by the way, when helicopters were flying in-

David Kibuuka 1:16:44 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:16:45 ... and there was gunfire the night that Maduro was taken.

Vic Mensa 1:16:47 Mm. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:16:47 There were people in the streets-

David Kibuuka 1:16:49 Cheering

Trevor Noah 1:16:49 ... of Venezuela cheering because they, and they were saying-

Vic Mensa 1:16:51 Each time

Trevor Noah 1:16:51 ... they were saying-

David Kibuuka 1:16:52 Mm. Every time

Trevor Noah 1:16:53 ... they were cheering going, "Oh, my, it's happening. He's being ousted." Like-

David Kibuuka 1:16:56 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:16:56 ... they were excited

Trevor Noah 1:16:57 for the change-

David Kibuuka 1:16:58 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:16:58 ... and the fact that they were gonna be freed from this dictator. And then Trump turns around, and he's like, "No, no, no, no, no. American companies can come in and do business again."

David Kibuuka 1:17:07 "And we're gonna own the oil."

Trevor Noah 1:17:09 Yes. And that's cool.

David Kibuuka 1:17:09 "We're gonna be taking care of the oil."

Trevor Noah 1:17:12 And we're happy.

Vic Mensa 1:17:12 And we have the oil. Yeah, I, I, I agree with you.

Trevor Noah 1:17:14 And then you go, "Okay, but what about the democracy side?" And he's like, "Eh, look, man, the point is American companies can come in and make the money." Same thing with Iran.

David Kibuuka 1:17:23 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:17:23 You go, "Why are you there? What are you actually doing there?" And any time he has a hint of optimism, look at what the optimism is about. You go, "Is it about the nuclear, uh, enrichment that they might have?" He's like, "Yeah, yeah. The point is the strait will be open, and we're gonna be doing this together. It's business, baby. W- uh, we're back. It's b- it's bus- " And you're like, "Oh, you..." That's why I say I don't know if he does it... I think he does it unknowingly.

David Kibuuka 1:17:50 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:17:51 He doesn't understand how valuable the farce was.

Vic Mensa 1:17:54 For sure.

David Kibuuka 1:17:55 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:17:56 Does that make sense?

David Kibuuka 1:17:56 That's a good, good one.

Vic Mensa 1:17:56 Because he's not-

David Kibuuka 1:17:58 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:17:58 ... aligned with, um, with the same-

Trevor Noah 1:18:02 No

Vic Mensa 1:18:02 ... decorum of the-

Trevor Noah 1:18:03 No

Vic Mensa 1:18:03 ... political machine.

David Kibuuka 1:18:04 Of the people.

Trevor Noah 1:18:04 No.

Vic Mensa 1:18:04 So he-

Trevor Noah 1:18:05 And class of people, yeah

Vic Mensa 1:18:05 ... he recognizes that, you know, he can manipulate these markets, and he can make a massive steal-

Trevor Noah 1:18:11 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:18:12 ... in this short period of time-

Trevor Noah 1:18:13 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Vic Mensa 1:18:13 ... and it doesn't-

Trevor Noah 1:18:14 Short period

Vic Mensa 1:18:14 ... matter to him

Trevor Noah 1:18:15 ... short period being the key

Vic Mensa 1:18:16 ... to continue. You know what I'm saying? It's just-

Trevor Noah 1:18:17 Yeah. Mm

Vic Mensa 1:18:17 ... it doesn't matter to him to continue the-

Trevor Noah 1:18:19 No

Vic Mensa 1:18:19 ... false veneer. And he's like, "This is about the oil."

Trevor Noah 1:18:22 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:18:22 Which is actually brilliant low-key because it breaks down all of the-

Trevor Noah 1:18:27 Mm

Vic Mensa 1:18:27 ... bipartisan lies and smoke and mirrors that they've been playing. 'Cause they've been warmongering, uh, you know, with Iran, like soft launching, you know what I'm saying, [laughs] these missiles for fucking, like, decades, you know?

Trevor Noah 1:18:40 But he was the first one to-

Vic Mensa 1:18:41 Democrats and Republicans.

Trevor Noah 1:18:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:18:42 But he's the first to just put it on Front Street to say, "No. Actually, we want the oil."

Trevor Noah 1:18:48 Yes.

Vic Mensa 1:18:48 "This, this is, this is what this is about."

Trevor Noah 1:18:50 Yep.

Vic Mensa 1:18:50 You know what I mean? This is about-

David Kibuuka 1:18:51 I- Oh, sorry. Yeah. 'Cause he's, he won Venez- 'Cause it's, he won Venezuela.

Trevor Noah 1:18:56 He won? Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:18:57 He won

Trevor Noah 1:18:57 I mean, he won. I, no, no, I, I agree with what David-

Vic Mensa 1:18:59 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:18:59 ... he won the, the, that was a, that was a an, you cannot de-

Vic Mensa 1:19:02 Easy victory

Trevor Noah 1:19:03 ... it was a vic- it was a victory.

Vic Mensa 1:19:04 Okay.

Trevor Noah 1:19:04 It was a first round knockout.

Vic Mensa 1:19:05 Yeah, first round knockout.

Trevor Noah 1:19:06 First, it was that Mike Tyson fight b- where people hadn't even come into the arena yet.

Vic Mensa 1:19:09 That's, that's where you feel-

Trevor Noah 1:19:10 That's what happened there

Vic Mensa 1:19:11 ... it's just like old recipe colonialism-

Trevor Noah 1:19:13 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:19:14 ... but in the modern age.

Trevor Noah 1:19:15 Yes, he's-

Vic Mensa 1:19:15 He's trying to use the old classic recipe.

Trevor Noah 1:19:16 Yeah, but that was a, that was a, you could not win more in the-

Vic Mensa 1:19:20 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:19:20 ... like any age.

Vic Mensa 1:19:20 And now he's-

Trevor Noah 1:19:21 Go in, the number of people who were killed is acceptable by American standards, right? Because it's almost like no Americans, I don't even think there was one, and they've taken the leader out, and they got someone who's amenable to what they want. So yes, a win.

Vic Mensa 1:19:32 Yes, then you're like, "He's losing Venezuela, I mean, he's losing Iran, then Cuba

Vic Mensa 1:19:37 w- for the series," 'cause it's gotta, it's gotta be tied. You won Venezuela.

Trevor Noah 1:19:41 [laughs] Won Venezuela, won, yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:19:43 Lost Iran, then the Cuban series. So then sometimes I think that, that the world should help Cuba so when it comes to the final, you know what I mean? Then-

Trevor Noah 1:19:53 But no one will.

Vic Mensa 1:19:54 Sorry?

Trevor Noah 1:19:55 No one will.

Vic Mensa 1:19:56 Yeah, because Cuba represents something that's so challenging and so dangerous to the supremacy of imperialism, and they represent the nigga they just couldn't kill. Like, Cuba has defied American supremacy-

Trevor Noah 1:20:11 Mm

Vic Mensa 1:20:11 ... for so long, and to be so close.

Trevor Noah 1:20:15 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:20:15 And Cuba has sent thousands of doctors to Africa-

Trevor Noah 1:20:20 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:20:20 ... and sent soldiers to Angola, and sent fighters to accompany, like, uh, Amilcar Cabral in Guinea. Like, I met with OGs that had photographs of them with weapons in the jungle-

Trevor Noah 1:20:34 Damn

Vic Mensa 1:20:34 ... that had stood side by side with Kwame Nkrumah, you know what I mean, and rocked with Patrice Lumumba, and they're 90 miles from Florida. You know what I mean? And so the world can't come to Cuba's defense because Cuba has defied the idea that the American way is better for too long. You know what I mean?

Trevor Noah 1:20:59 Hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:20:59 They stand for something so significant, and it's interesting, though, because when I'm there, the official policy that was laid out by, uh, Lester Mallory in, like, 1960, an American, uh, diplomat, was to bring about, um, I'm paraphrasing, suffering, destruction, and starvation to the people of Cuba to the point that they revolt against their own and overthrow the government.

Trevor Noah 1:21:24 Right.

Vic Mensa 1:21:24 That was the official stated policy. And so much time has passed, and so many people in Cuba have been born under these current conditions that many of them only blame their own government.

Trevor Noah 1:21:39 Hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:21:40 Many of them don't even consider the American sanctions. Let-

Trevor Noah 1:21:45 As being part of the issue.

Vic Mensa 1:21:46 Never-

Trevor Noah 1:21:46 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:21:46 ... never mind the fact that fucking American sanctions, not just in Cuba, but around the world over the past 50 years have killed, like, I don't know, like, 50 million people. It's some astronomical number of people that have died-

Trevor Noah 1:21:57 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:21:57 ... from American sanctions. Uh, but once again, that shadowy puppet master effect of being able to circumvent and add in suffering, starvation, and destruction through a third party, uh, like, type of manipulation, it leaves the people feeling like it's their fault. It's very similar to the way that Africans will feel, uh, Africans often will be like, "Well, what about the corruption that," you know what I mean? "That we are corrupt."

Trevor Noah 1:22:26 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:22:26 We'll feel that.

Trevor Noah 1:22:27 I know exactly what you mean.

Vic Mensa 1:22:27 You know what I'm saying? And I felt that when I was in Cuba, and it's not that the, um, that the government of Cuba or the government of Iran, that, that these are, uh, perfect entities. You know what I'm saying? But they're under the heel of, of imperialism. Like, how can one operate perfectly under the heel of imperialism?

Trevor Noah 1:22:45 That's, that's probably the biggest paradox in all of this, is there are no perfect messengers, and then the story has been dictated by the victors, right?

Vic Mensa 1:22:58 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:22:58 So I, I struggle with this all the time. I, I, I don't know how you process it. I go, "You would be lying as a person if you said that Cuba hasn't shown many of the benefits of not adhering to, like, a strict capitalist system." You know?

Vic Mensa 1:23:15 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:23:15 People educated just because you're gonna be educated. Some of the best teachers, some of the best doctors, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And it's important to state, with almost nothing. Like, if you think of resources that the country has almost nothing.

Vic Mensa 1:23:25 Word.

Trevor Noah 1:23:25 Right? But then you'd also be lying if you didn't talk about the oppression of those same people by that government. You'd be like, "Yeah, but what about the people and what..." You, you know what I mean. What I've noticed is interesting is that the West does a particularly good job-

Vic Mensa 1:23:40 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:23:40 ... of framing its oppression and bad deeds-

Vic Mensa 1:23:44 Of Cuba

Trevor Noah 1:23:44 ... as, no, no, no, of anyone-

Vic Mensa 1:23:46 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:23:46 ... as an outlier.

Vic Mensa 1:23:47 Hmm. Right.

Trevor Noah 1:23:48 You know what I mean?

Vic Mensa 1:23:49 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:23:49 So if you say to America or Americans, you go like, "Man, look at how many people in America starve or die because the system is designed to make them starve and die from sickness, et ce-" people be like, "Yeah, well, well, that, that's when the system doesn't work well. That's, that's, that's not what it's supposed to do."

Vic Mensa 1:24:06 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:24:07 And you're like, "Oh, okay." And then you go like, "Man, look how many schools you've bombed or how many kids you've killed around the world or..." If we put that number on any other nation or any other group, I think as the world we agree, we'd probably go after them, right? Like, we, we wouldn't, that would just not be a thing.

Vic Mensa 1:24:24 We'd have to liberate them and bring them democracy.

Trevor Noah 1:24:27 But then America goes, "Yes, we know, we know we, we bombed the school. That is an unfortunate side effect of wa- but we weren't, we were not trying to do it, and so we're actually the good guys."

Trevor Noah 1:24:40 And it's, it, it always breaks my mind because it does two things. On the one hand I go, it's all unraveling right now in the world. I th- I think we, we live in a time that is unlike many other times-

Vic Mensa 1:24:53 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:24:53 ... in that there is no one central narrative that anyone controls anymore. And while I'm happy about it, it also terrifies me because- I don't believe that anyone was, like, let's say, telling the truth about their country or central power, but I also don't think the world can survive if everyone believes nothing and nobody's a good guy. And, like, do you know what I mean?

David Kibuuka 1:25:16 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:25:16 If every government's bad and everyone is bad and everyone is not doing the right thing, then what incentive do we have to be part of anything?

David Kibuuka 1:25:28 Yeah. Or even outspoken. I think, um, there's enough people who with ... who are supposed to have opinions and who have a platform that are having too much of a good time within the rottenness of the system. So if Nelson Mandela, for example, was having a shitty time-

Trevor Noah 1:25:40 Yeah

David Kibuuka 1:25:40 ... and he says, "My people are also having a shitty time," we're all having a shitty time.

Trevor Noah 1:25:44 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 1:25:44 So if the people with opinions are also like, "I can also take a business flight to New York and I have an S class," and, and, and, and those voices get stifled. So I think that's what's happening around the world right now, is there's an outlier once in a while, someone who's doing well and has an opinion, and can influence those with opinions to also have more opinions. But there are those who don't have a platform, who are not having a good time, who can't say much and do much as well. So I think we have to give balance to that. There's enough information out there for people to make up their own minds, but I think when people are faced with the day-to-day struggles, it's very hard for them to turn on the news and feel sorry for people who are being bombed far away from where they are.

Trevor Noah 1:26:22 What do you, what do you think changed? Because when I look back, especially at American musicians and actors even-

David Kibuuka 1:26:30 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:26:30 ... this is literally how I grew up. I grew up watching, you know, the stories about race and class-

David Kibuuka 1:26:35 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:26:35 ... and all that, oftentimes through the lens of, like, American artists.

Vic Mensa 1:26:38 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:26:38 You know, and then there were obviously the ones before my time. But when I think of, like, the Nina Simones and the Muhammad Alis and the ... When I, when I watch those interviews, I go, "Damn."

David Kibuuka 1:26:46 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:26:46 'Cause I mean, Dave, like, we were on The Daily Show, but have you ever watched those interviews and been like, "Man-

Vic Mensa 1:26:51 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:26:51 ... Late Night was no ... Like, Late Night now is like, "So tell me, tell me about the time you, uh, you rode a horse and, uh, ate a banana. That was a crazy time." And then you go back and watch-

David Kibuuka 1:27:00 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:27:00 ... Late Night from, like, decades ago, and it's like, "So, um, Mr., Mr. Ali, y- you say that America's inherently racist. What do you mean by that?"

David Kibuuka 1:27:07 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:27:07 And you're like, "Damn, this is Late Night..." D- do you get what I'm saying?

David Kibuuka 1:27:11 Yeah, because those influential people were also not having a good time, so when they got a chance to speak, they would actually

David Kibuuka 1:27:16 raise up-

Trevor Noah 1:27:16 No, but they were a- they were ... I would argue they were having as good a time as you could be having now. Maybe I'm wrong.

David Kibuuka 1:27:25 No.

Trevor Noah 1:27:25 But now, like, you, you are an outlier, whereas back then, I don't know that you would be an outlier per se.

David Kibuuka 1:27:31 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:27:31 Mm. I think COINTELPRO just been very effective. You know, I mean, Black people have had so many mass movements and elevations of consciousness, and they're always followed by, like, cataclysmic events of biochemical warfare. Like, crack cocaine hits the streets not long after, um, the Black Panther Party is in the footsteps of Malcolm X, like, shifting mental, uh, the, the consciousness of the people. But then you experience crack cocaine, you experience mass incarceration. You get to a point where kids of my generation in Chicago that are in the working class, so many of them are, like, three generations of fatherless homes. I mean, everybody's been incarcerated.

Trevor Noah 1:28:28 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:28:28 Millions of men incarcerated.

David Kibuuka 1:28:30 Mm.

Vic Mensa 1:28:30 And, and so many parents addicted to drugs, like, passing that down to, to their children. That becomes, once again, something that we often feel like we feel ownership of the, of the ways we've been poisoned.

Trevor Noah 1:28:47 Hm.

Vic Mensa 1:28:47 And then we, then we put that into our art. We make that our focus. We make that our music. We, we lose sight of, uh, anything other than the suffering and the struggle that, that we experience, and ascending out of it is kind of seen, um, only from a material context. You know what I mean? Because it's so ... It's, it's, it's so dire. The circumstances are so dire-

Trevor Noah 1:29:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Vic Mensa 1:29:10 ... that it's like, cool, get the S class, get the first class flight. That's it.

Trevor Noah 1:29:15 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:29:15 You know what I'm saying?

David Kibuuka 1:29:15 Get out the, get out the hood.

Vic Mensa 1:29:16 Just, just get out the fucking hood.

Trevor Noah 1:29:18 Yeah, yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:29:18 That's, that's the only goal, you know what I'm saying? [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:29:21 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 1:29:21 And how, and then from one of the-

Trevor Noah 1:29:22 We lose, we lose the dream of, of there not being a hood in that way, and then we just wanna get out of it.

Vic Mensa 1:29:28 Just wanna get out of it. And then you even see, like-

Trevor Noah 1:29:31 Mm

Vic Mensa 1:29:31 ... ways in which, um, the entertainment industry has, uh, controlled opposition and platformed focused corrosive messaging-

David Kibuuka 1:29:45 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:29:45 ... and uplifted those things, um, very intentionally. And, uh, and, and it just becomes pervasive, you know what I mean? Like, that's the, that's the dominant thread of, of conversation. But it doesn't last. I think the pendulum swings.

Trevor Noah 1:29:59 Yeah, mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:30:00 You know what I'm saying? I think we're coming back to a time when for sure things are d- even when I was on your show 10 years ago talking about, talking about Palestine, like, that was a real fucking outlier.

Trevor Noah 1:30:11 Yeah, it was.

Vic Mensa 1:30:11 It's not now.

Trevor Noah 1:30:12 No.

Vic Mensa 1:30:13 And, and that's one, that's one issue that people often latch onto and, you know, call us single issue voters or whatever.

Trevor Noah 1:30:20 Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

Vic Mensa 1:30:20 But, but what happens in, uh, Palestine, the money that is funding this, uh, genocide in Gaza is very connected to our everyday lives because it affects the money that's not going into schools. It affects the money that's not going into-

David Kibuuka 1:30:32 Healthcare

Vic Mensa 1:30:33 ... healthcare. It affects the money that's not going into affordable housing. Like, it's all very connected, and things have changed in a way in the past 10 years. Have the material realities changed? No.

David Kibuuka 1:30:43 Mm.

Vic Mensa 1:30:44 You know what I'm saying? But I do think the people's consciousness has to, like, shift before the ability to shift the material realities.

Trevor Noah 1:30:51 It's also, it's also-

David Kibuuka 1:30:51 You know what, uh-

Trevor Noah 1:30:52 Yeah?

David Kibuuka 1:30:52 A thing that I think, um, people don't recognize a lot is that-

Trevor Noah 1:31:00 Don't say racism is good, like you normally say in our group chats.

David Kibuuka 1:31:02 Like I normally say. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:31:06 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:31:06 My nigga.

David Kibuuka 1:31:06 Is the, is the-

Trevor Noah 1:31:07 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:31:07 I'm a nigga.

David Kibuuka 1:31:08 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:31:09 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:31:09 It just sounds like I'm a nigga, so it's like-

Trevor Noah 1:31:11 [laughs] Oh, yeah. That's ... I don't even hear it like that.

David Kibuuka 1:31:14 That is [laughs] is the, um, is the fact that some of the things that people do-

Trevor Noah 1:31:20 Are like, I don't know, maybe I won't say this clearly, but we see people, then we go, "People are good." It's feels like people are good. You know, in the world? Yeah. They're just generally good. Then when something bad happens, it almost seems so unfathomable that it's, that you're like, no, either life just sort of like panned out like that- Mm-hmm ... or you are a conspiracy theorist. I remember talking to a friend about this when I first came to the US, long before The Daily Show, long before. I was, I was in, um, I was in Los Angeles, and I was going around doing comedy clubs and nights, and I'd, I would meet these comedians. I remember one night I was at what they call an urban night, you know? So it's a Black comedy night. Now where we're from, that's just the nights. You know what I mean?

David Kibuuka 1:32:06 At night.

Trevor Noah 1:32:07 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 1:32:08 Amani guys everywhere.

Trevor Noah 1:32:10 [laughs] So it's all, it's all an urban night. [laughs]

David Kibuuka 1:32:13 With the Ghanaian butler going, "You can go." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:32:16 [laughs] So we're like, "Yo."

David Kibuuka 1:32:17 "You know where you're going." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:32:18 [laughs] Like, and, and, and we had this conversation. [laughs]

David Kibuuka 1:32:22 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:32:22 [laughs] And he said something that, man, it really stuck with me. He said, um, he said, he said... He was, we were talking about like conspiracy theories and not believing and, and, you know. And then he said to me, he said, "Man, one of the things I wish, I just wish that African Americans didn't have as many conspiracy theories as they have."

David Kibuuka 1:32:41 Mm.

Trevor Noah 1:32:41 And this is a Black man saying this, by the way.

David Kibuuka 1:32:43 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:32:44 And then I said to him, "If anything, I, I feel like Black people should be full conspiracy theorists only, especially in America."

David Kibuuka 1:32:53 Oh, wow.

Trevor Noah 1:32:53 Because the amount of times the conspiracy theory-

David Kibuuka 1:32:56 Has actually been true

Trevor Noah 1:32:57 ... has been true for Black people in America. I go, "I don't understand why you are... I'm actually impressed that you're not f- fully a conspiracy theorist."

David Kibuuka 1:33:04 Yeah, but even the term is to cover up what could be potentially the truth.

Trevor Noah 1:33:08 Yeah, but I'm just saying-

David Kibuuka 1:33:09 Conspiracy theory.

Trevor Noah 1:33:09 It's always true. [laughs]

David Kibuuka 1:33:10 You know, it's like, oh.

Trevor Noah 1:33:11 Pretty much always.

David Kibuuka 1:33:12 Theory.

Trevor Noah 1:33:12 I actually, you, you would love this.

David Kibuuka 1:33:13 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:33:13 I actually, I actually met someone who worked at the CIA, and I asked him the question. I said, "Yo, um..." Uh, it wasn't me, it was a friend of mine asked it while we were there. He said, "How many conspiracy theories are true?" And the guy laughed and he said, um, he said, "Obviously, I can't say anything to you," but he said, "But I will tell you this. Oftentimes at the agency, we would be grateful..." This was a really interesting phrase. He said, "We would be grateful at how crazy conspiracy theorists were because half the time they were correct, but half the time their conspiracies were so crazy that we never needed to like step in and, and-"

David Kibuuka 1:33:52 And balance it

Trevor Noah 1:33:53 ... and it was this interesting concept to me where I went like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, so half the things you think-

David Kibuuka 1:34:00 Are crazy

Trevor Noah 1:34:01 ... whatever you are and whoever you are in your world, half the things that you think are crazy are probably true."

David Kibuuka 1:34:06 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:34:07 "And then half the things that you think are true are probably crazy. The difficulty is we'll, we'll just never know." Yeah, that's how I feel about the, about the files, man. It was like, I used to, I used to look at some of my friends and some of the online discourse. It'd be like, "Really, guys? A secret cabal of blood-drinking Democrats abusing children globally behind the scenes? Are you serious?" Then you see the goddamn files and you're like, "Oh." Deep. Oh, yeah. Hmm. Okay. Deep.

David Kibuuka 1:34:41 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:34:42 This was real. Deep. These blood-drinking pedophiles, like this, I, you couldn't have told me. That, I, I was like, I draw the line at that, you know? It, and it's where you should draw the line. Like men s- like if you, if you think of somebody telling you a story, to believe that is, uh, come on, it's crazy. And more and more people are starting to not question reality, but- Yeah, but that's what I mean ... I don't, I, I don't mean it in a bad way. No, but I- I mean- ... but I like what you're saying, 'cause I... Sorry to cut you off, but Dave, but that's, that's what, that's what like worries me, actually. I know, I, I hope I articulate this correctly,

Trevor Noah 1:35:19 but I sometimes feel like it is, oh man, what's the word I would use? I sometimes feel like it is safer maybe, or, or... Yeah, safe is the only word I could think of. For a society to collectively believe in a lie that moves them in the same direction. Yep. Same direction being the key phrase.

David Kibuuka 1:35:41 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:35:41 Yes. Than for everyone to just have their own reality. And I, I hold... It, it's a paradox in my brain, and it's something I struggle with because I do not wish for any of us to, quote-unquote, "be living a lie" or be living in a fake world. But then at the same time, if everyone believes their own thing and nobody li- believes anything, I genuinely believe that's when society just disappears as a concept. I mean, if you had a central religion as a central, like, it, ideas. If, if we take away religion being bad or good- Yeah ... but it just goes like, "Guys, let's believe that we should be nice to each other." Yeah. Then you go, okay. As opposed to, "I should be nice to some people or not nice to..." I, I'm saying to your- Yeah, yeah, no, I'm with you. Yeah ... "Let's be nice to each other, otherwise you'll go to hell." Yeah. You know, is like a lie. But, um- It is? [laughs] But, but it could help- It, it actually is a lie ... people move in a- Because accept- It is? Yeah, it's accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. In, in a direction ... that's, that's the thing. It's not about being nice to other people. Should I talk, and this, I don't want to go into this. But I just don't want Eugene to go- You don't? I don't want Eugene to go to hell for the wrong reasons. No, no, no. I don't want to go into this.

David Kibuuka 1:36:45 You don't?

Trevor Noah 1:36:46 This is- Go nobly. No, just hold on. [laughs]

David Kibuuka 1:36:49 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:36:49 [laughs] Yo, this man just said, "Go nobly." [upbeat music] Don't press anything. We've got more What Now? After this. [upbeat music]

Trevor Noah 1:37:04 What do you, what do you think people get the most wrong about you, then? Like, 'cause I mean the, uh, uh, yeah, I'm, I'll throw it out there. I could be wrong about this, but when I see, like, Vic Mensa, there's so many iterations of you that I've seen over time, as you would with any artist in the public eye. But there's so many different iterations of you. I wonder what people get wrong about you that you see out there, where you're like, "No, that's not me," or, "That's not how I am anymore," or, "That's, that's never been me."

Vic Mensa 1:37:30 I think people used to think that I was very serious and always wanted to fight somebody.

Trevor Noah 1:37:34 You did give off that vibe, actually.

David Kibuuka 1:37:36 Fight over the-

Trevor Noah 1:37:36 No, no, no. You did give off that vibe.

Vic Mensa 1:37:38 [laughs] You said I did give off that vibe?

Trevor Noah 1:37:38 I was one of those. No, no, no. I, I believed that. Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:37:40 You thought that I was very serious and I always wanted to fight?

Trevor Noah 1:37:42 100%. I'm glad you said that, actually.

Vic Mensa 1:37:43 Even when I came on your show?

Trevor Noah 1:37:45 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:37:45 Okay, okay.

Trevor Noah 1:37:46 No, I knew you weren't gonna fight me, but I was like, in this, in the hallway-

David Kibuuka 1:37:50 Who was gonna win?

Trevor Noah 1:37:51 ... I pray to God nobody bumps this person.

David Kibuuka 1:37:54 If he fought you.

Trevor Noah 1:37:54 I pray to God that-

David Kibuuka 1:37:54 Who was gonna win?

Trevor Noah 1:37:55 Who? If he fought me?

David Kibuuka 1:37:56 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:37:57 No, V- come on, look at this guy.

David Kibuuka 1:37:58 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:37:58 He's from Chicago. I'm from-

Vic Mensa 1:38:00 He from Johannesburg.

Trevor Noah 1:38:01 No, my friend.

David Kibuuka 1:38:02 Me?

Trevor Noah 1:38:02 No, my friend.

David Kibuuka 1:38:02 Wait.

Trevor Noah 1:38:03 No. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:38:05 [laughs] Not you. You're not gonna win.

David Kibuuka 1:38:08 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:38:08 [laughs] No fucking way. Oh, man.

Vic Mensa 1:38:11 I, I think that's, that's probably the biggest thing people got wrong about me-

Trevor Noah 1:38:13 You know, one thing, one thing I will say about Johannesburg maybe versus Chicago, I don't know if it's the same. You'll tell me

Vic Mensa 1:38:17 ... if we can go head-to-head, have our cities battle.

Trevor Noah 1:38:19 No. No, no.

David Kibuuka 1:38:20 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:38:20 One of the, one of the most, one of the most important things Johannesburg taught me growing up with it was Hillbrow, Alex, wherever, is knowing when and how to run.

David Kibuuka 1:38:29 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:38:30 Like fleeing was never seen as a, you know, yeah-

David Kibuuka 1:38:33 As a sign of cowardliness. Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:38:34 ... people would be like, they would d- maybe as a joke, but yo, th- th- you, like running-

David Kibuuka 1:38:38 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:38:38 ... was actually a high-level skill.

David Kibuuka 1:38:40 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:38:41 If you knew when to run, you were just as good as knowing how to fight.

Vic Mensa 1:38:43 Oh, yeah. It's an art. It's an art.

Trevor Noah 1:38:43 So I don't know if it's the same in Chicago.

Vic Mensa 1:38:46 Yeah. I mean, shit, I ran from the pol- I feel like I'm a-

Trevor Noah 1:38:48 No, not the police

Vic Mensa 1:38:48 ... professional runner from the police.

Trevor Noah 1:38:49 No, no, no, not the police.

Vic Mensa 1:38:50 And violence.

Trevor Noah 1:38:50 Okay, okay, okay.

David Kibuuka 1:38:51 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:38:51 I'm talking about like if someone stepped to you, could you run?

Vic Mensa 1:38:54 One-on-one?

Trevor Noah 1:38:55 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:38:56 No.

David Kibuuka 1:38:57 Huh?

Trevor Noah 1:38:57 Two, two on one?

Vic Mensa 1:38:59 Possible.

Trevor Noah 1:39:01 Three on one?

Vic Mensa 1:39:01 Yes.

Trevor Noah 1:39:02 Okay.

Vic Mensa 1:39:02 I'm out.

Trevor Noah 1:39:03 Okay.

Vic Mensa 1:39:04 One on one, somebody steps to me with no weapon, how could I run?

Trevor Noah 1:39:07 Okay. All right. Hmm. No, I can't.

Vic Mensa 1:39:09 That, that would be a violation of my moral code.

Trevor Noah 1:39:11 There you go. See me, one on-

David Kibuuka 1:39:12 You know-

Trevor Noah 1:39:12 So if you say, when you-

David Kibuuka 1:39:13 You know what would be a violation of my moral code? Dying.

Trevor Noah 1:39:16 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:39:17 Yeah, but he ain't have a weapon. He's not gonna die.

David Kibuuka 1:39:18 Oh, I know.

Vic Mensa 1:39:19 He's gonna get whipped.

Trevor Noah 1:39:19 It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

David Kibuuka 1:39:21 I don't wanna be a surprise ghost.

Trevor Noah 1:39:23 Okay, so you, so you were, so you weren't, you've never b- or w-

Vic Mensa 1:39:26 No

Trevor Noah 1:39:26 ... you were not or you've never been like ultra-serious wanting to fight all the time?

Vic Mensa 1:39:30 No, no, no, no. I've always been Gemini, though, so maybe half the time I, I coulda been like that.

Trevor Noah 1:39:35 Okay. Okay.

Vic Mensa 1:39:35 Always been everything funny to me, all jokes. But also serious and wanting to fight.

Trevor Noah 1:39:42 Okay. No, but I like. That's balance.

David Kibuuka 1:39:43 Yeah. But people who believe in zodiac signs are very pragmatic 'cause they look at you and they go, "What star sign are you?" You're like, "I'm a Scorpio." Like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. It makes sense now." And you're like, "Why?" Then they tell you what your star sign means and-

Vic Mensa 1:39:55 Gemini is really like that, though

David Kibuuka 1:39:56 You see?

Vic Mensa 1:39:56 Gemini is like very-

David Kibuuka 1:39:57 You see?

Vic Mensa 1:39:57 ... polar, very polar. I mean, Kanye is a Gemini.

David Kibuuka 1:40:00 Scorpio? Who, w- and then what-

Vic Mensa 1:40:03 A Gemini

David Kibuuka 1:40:03 ... what about those ones? Yeah. Scorpio.

Vic Mensa 1:40:04 I don't know nothing about Scorpios. I know about me, nigga.

David Kibuuka 1:40:05 How many star signs do you know, Gandhi? Taurus.

Vic Mensa 1:40:07 Me.

Trevor Noah 1:40:08 Yeah, but that Taurus is your son.

David Kibuuka 1:40:09 Taurus. Taurus is your son.

Vic Mensa 1:40:10 Oh, Taurus is my son.

Trevor Noah 1:40:10 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 1:40:10 And your dad.

Vic Mensa 1:40:10 But they say that the Tauruses are stubborn.

Trevor Noah 1:40:12 Yes.

David Kibuuka 1:40:13 Yes.

Vic Mensa 1:40:13 I just learned about them when I learned about my son.

Trevor Noah 1:40:15 Okay.

Vic Mensa 1:40:15 You know?

Trevor Noah 1:40:16 Gemini, Kanye.

Vic Mensa 1:40:16 Gemini is, is very polar.

Trevor Noah 1:40:19 Okay. Okay.

Vic Mensa 1:40:19 And, uh, and, and Cancers. I know Cancer.

Trevor Noah 1:40:22 Okay.

Vic Mensa 1:40:23 You know.

Trevor Noah 1:40:23 It's a deadly disease.

Vic Mensa 1:40:24 I know a little bit about Aries. My girl's an Aries.

David Kibuuka 1:40:26 Oh, you know a lot.

Vic Mensa 1:40:27 Um, Aries are fire, fiery.

David Kibuuka 1:40:29 [laughs] Look at this guy.

Vic Mensa 1:40:30 You know.

Trevor Noah 1:40:30 You know what I do like about star signs is it comes with a lot of grace.

David Kibuuka 1:40:35 That's what I'm saying. Pragmatic. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:40:37 Yeah, like, like-

David Kibuuka 1:40:37 You hear someone, you're like, "Oh, what star sign?"

Trevor Noah 1:40:39 Yeah, but what I m-

Vic Mensa 1:40:40 Oh, sure

Trevor Noah 1:40:40 ... what I mean by it is like-

David Kibuuka 1:40:40 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:40:40 ... star signs, they, they just, they come with a lot of grace. So someone will say, "Man, this person's stubborn." "Oh, they're Tau- ah, that explains it."

Vic Mensa 1:40:48 Right.

Trevor Noah 1:40:48 I think that, is that what you're saying, basically?

David Kibuuka 1:40:49 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:40:49 Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah.

David Kibuuka 1:40:50 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:40:50 Yeah. There's, there's, they, they allow people-

David Kibuuka 1:40:53 To be themselves

Trevor Noah 1:40:54 ... and to ha- and to contain all of themselves.

David Kibuuka 1:40:56 And they almost-

Vic Mensa 1:40:56 For sure

David Kibuuka 1:40:56 ... they almost make you feel like the mistakes that pe- the, the flaws that people have are not-

Vic Mensa 1:40:59 You blame it on-

David Kibuuka 1:41:00 ... of their own doing

Vic Mensa 1:41:00 ... yeah, you blame it on their nature.

David Kibuuka 1:41:02 Yeah, like, ah, it's the stars-

Vic Mensa 1:41:03 I, I mean-

David Kibuuka 1:41:03 ... and then you were born on a Tuesday-

Vic Mensa 1:41:03 Low-key, though

David Kibuuka 1:41:04 ... and a cold night

Vic Mensa 1:41:04 ... that is, that is like how, being a Gemini is definitely a, like mental, it is a mental illness at times.

Trevor Noah 1:41:12 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:41:13 You know what I'm saying? Because you're so polar.

Trevor Noah 1:41:15 Mm.

Vic Mensa 1:41:15 You feel one thing with complete passion, and the next day you think something entirely different. You know what I mean? One day I could be-

Trevor Noah 1:41:22 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:41:23 ... upset-

David Kibuuka 1:41:23 Mm

Vic Mensa 1:41:23 ... and wanna fight people all the time-

Trevor Noah 1:41:25 Uh-huh, uh-huh

Vic Mensa 1:41:25 ... and then the next minute, everything's a joke to me. But I think, like my process-

Trevor Noah 1:41:29 Hmm

Vic Mensa 1:41:29 ... of coming into a, a, a livable experience is to learn not to be a slave to my nature.

Trevor Noah 1:41:37 Hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:41:37 My nature as a Gemini is very dual. It's a duality. My nature is that way. But to have integrity is to, uh, intentionally choose to make decisions that I can rationalize from any side of my personality.

Trevor Noah 1:41:54 Huh.

Vic Mensa 1:41:55 And before, I wasn't like that at all. Like, I was, I was a slave to my nature. You know what I'm saying? And like my Gemini would be like, "Oh, I have to say exactly what I think to this person-

Trevor Noah 1:42:05 Right. Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:42:05 ... at the time that I think it. I have to tell him. I'ma slap him in his mouth. Be-

Trevor Noah 1:42:09 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:42:09 And he, he violated, so I am-

Trevor Noah 1:42:12 He deserves it [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:42:12 ... justified. You know what I'm saying? [laughs] Like this is the right thing to do.

Trevor Noah 1:42:17 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:42:17 You know?

Trevor Noah 1:42:17 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 1:42:18 It should be done.

Vic Mensa 1:42:19 Um, it should-

Trevor Noah 1:42:19 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:42:19 ... not only it should be done, it will be done.

David Kibuuka 1:42:21 Thine.

Vic Mensa 1:42:22 It, it has been done.

David Kibuuka 1:42:23 [laughs] It sounds like, it sounds familiar.

Vic Mensa 1:42:25 You know what I'm saying?

David Kibuuka 1:42:26 [laughs] Will that be done?

Vic Mensa 1:42:26 And like, you know, c- just, just growing.

Trevor Noah 1:42:29 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:42:29 Just growing is, is to come to realize that like although my, my natural proclivity, my inclination as a Gemini n- is to be this way, that I'm not beholden to that.

Trevor Noah 1:42:41 Huh.

Vic Mensa 1:42:41 Like I can have the discipline to not act out my fucking intrusive thoughts-

Trevor Noah 1:42:46 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Vic Mensa 1:42:47 ... at all times as a Gemini.

David Kibuuka 1:42:48 Intrusive thoughts.

Vic Mensa 1:42:49 You know? Those are the best ones-

Trevor Noah 1:42:50 Oh

Vic Mensa 1:42:50 ... but they also get you in a lot of Goddamn trouble.

David Kibuuka 1:42:52 Intrusive.

Vic Mensa 1:42:52 They can get you in years of trouble.

Trevor Noah 1:42:54 What are intrusive thoughts?

David Kibuuka 1:42:55 Here are mine.

Trevor Noah 1:42:56 No, I'm just saying, what are they?

David Kibuuka 1:42:57 All of you. Thank you.

Vic Mensa 1:42:58 Mine is to flip this fucking desk right now. [laughs]

David Kibuuka 1:43:02 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:43:02 Wait, these are the thoughts you guys are having?

Vic Mensa 1:43:04 Just when he said intrusive thoughts.

David Kibuuka 1:43:05 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:43:05 Just in that moment, I was like-

Trevor Noah 1:43:07 Damn

David Kibuuka 1:43:08 ... don't you have intrusive thoughts? Like when you're driving, you're like, "If I go eep like this, what would happen?"

Vic Mensa 1:43:12 Like in the airport-

David Kibuuka 1:43:13 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:43:13 ... you know you got a motherfucker in front of you-

Trevor Noah 1:43:13 Can I tell you?

David Kibuuka 1:43:14 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:43:14 ... you just wanna punch him in the fucking face.

Trevor Noah 1:43:15 You see, it's funny. That, that idea-

David Kibuuka 1:43:17 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:43:17 ... the first time that came into my head was because you said that. Y- you said this to me more than like 15 years ago.

David Kibuuka 1:43:22 You never think of it?

Trevor Noah 1:43:23 I've, I had never before you-

David Kibuuka 1:43:25 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:43:25 ... thought of possibly veering my vehicle into opposing traffic.

David Kibuuka 1:43:28 Just to see what happens.

Trevor Noah 1:43:29 Yes, but I'm saying-

Vic Mensa 1:43:30 He is your intrusive thought.

Trevor Noah 1:43:31 Actually, that's exactly what it is. This could be like Fight Club and you're not even real.

David Kibuuka 1:43:35 You ne- you never think of f-

Trevor Noah 1:43:37 Do you realize, you know, I just realized that right now-

David Kibuuka 1:43:38 I did this thing. What would happen?

Trevor Noah 1:43:39 I just realized

Trevor Noah 1:43:40 right now-

David Kibuuka 1:43:40 I'm Tyler Durden

Trevor Noah 1:43:40 ... you might not be real. You're Tyler Durden.

Vic Mensa 1:43:41 But it's really the Philly version of him as the intrusive thoughts.

David Kibuuka 1:43:44 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:43:45 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 1:43:45 From the African accent. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:43:47 He's like, "Young bull. Crash your shit, young bull."

Trevor Noah 1:43:50 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 1:43:50 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:43:50 "Allah whack bar. Crash that fucking car. Allah whack bar, young bull." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:43:56 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 1:43:56 Oh, man. You know, as we, when we started this conversation, I was wondering why I started gravitating towards your videos, and I understood what it was-

Trevor Noah 1:44:05 Yeah

David Kibuuka 1:44:05 ... a little bit now after speaking to you. It's you almost cut across from our generation of thinking, 'cause him and I go into these rabbit holes a lot, but obviously we say what we want to say in our way.

Trevor Noah 1:44:19 Yeah.

David Kibuuka 1:44:20 We don't say it the way that you say it. But there's two things that you taught me. The one thing that you taught me a long time ago, and it's something that my daughter taught me the other day, is, was giving people grace, one, and understanding when to use your privilege.

Trevor Noah 1:44:35 Hmm.

David Kibuuka 1:44:35 'Cause I've, I've always struggled with that. And then I remember when we started doing television, 'cause I started doing television way later than he did, and we did a show together. And there was this one director that was just a douchebag, and I just got angrier and angrier and angrier 'cause in my head, I saw what he was doing as a director as a racist move.

Trevor Noah 1:44:53 Mm.

David Kibuuka 1:44:53 And I was ready to quit the show. And I remember you called me to the side, and then you said to me, "Yo, you must understand one thing. They already don't want us here." And I was like, "They're the white people." You're like, "No, them as a crew, they already think that someone better can do this job. It's not about race. If you walk away, you're proving him right, but if you stick around, you're only gonna get better." Then I was like, "So it's not about race?" He was like, "Maybe it might be on the side."

Trevor Noah 1:45:21 Yeah, I always said you never know.

David Kibuuka 1:45:22 Yeah, on the side. A tinge of racism.

Vic Mensa 1:45:24 Oh, it's always about race.

David Kibuuka 1:45:25 Yeah, but basically-

Vic Mensa 1:45:26 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 1:45:26 ... the, the guy's sitting there going, "I know someone who could have done this thing better."

Trevor Noah 1:45:30 Yeah, should have even.

David Kibuuka 1:45:32 Should have done it better.

Trevor Noah 1:45:32 Mm-hmm.

David Kibuuka 1:45:33 And then that never left my mind because I was always ready to act on my intrusive thoughts. If someone steps in front of me, they're gone. And then you gave me that, and I was like, ah, it's using the privilege of knowing-

Trevor Noah 1:45:44 Mm

David Kibuuka 1:45:44 ... that you can do better-

Trevor Noah 1:45:45 Mm

David Kibuuka 1:45:45 ... and you can defeat them by just doing better. And there's the other thing that my daughter and I were discussing the other day. It had to do with a place that we booked, and then when we booked the place they said something can't be done. Until when, after booking the place, I showed up and they said, "You can do anything." And then I said, "Don't you feel bad for the fact that now you can do anything after they said you can't do anything?" And she said, "Dad, I would feel bad if we turned it down from an offer." Then I was like, "Why?" She was like, "No, it's not just everyone who can do what they like. And if I can do what I like because of how you do what you like and still get paid from it, then I would be remiss if I didn't take advantage of the fact that we can do what we like."

Trevor Noah 1:46:32 Hmm.

David Kibuuka 1:46:32 Then I was like, "Ah."

Trevor Noah 1:46:32 You know, the poignant thing about what you're saying, Eugene, there-

David Kibuuka 1:46:35 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:46:35 ... is that, um, Trev, he told you how to, like, improve the world.

David Kibuuka 1:46:42 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:46:42 'Cause you were like, "Look at the circumstance."

David Kibuuka 1:46:45 Yep.

Trevor Noah 1:46:45 "There's a better way to handle this."

Vic Mensa 1:46:47 Or just a different way, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:46:48 A different, yes, a more, more effective way you would say.

David Kibuuka 1:46:51 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:46:51 And then you, 'cause, like, Trevor's driving, [laughs] and you're like, "You know what? What if you just went into oncoming traffic?"

David Kibuuka 1:47:00 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:47:02 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:47:02 [laughs]

David Kibuuka 1:47:02 This is how we were exchanging it.

Trevor Noah 1:47:04 Ex- exchanging ideas. It's like ...

David Kibuuka 1:47:06 Yeah, and with your world, you are able to use everything that you've learned throughout life, throughout your art, throughout your career, to carry out these videos. You understand the privilege that you have.

Trevor Noah 1:47:17 It is the culmination of Vic Mensa, I feel like.

David Kibuuka 1:47:19 100%.

Trevor Noah 1:47:19 That's what I would call it.

David Kibuuka 1:47:20 Like 10 years ago, this Vic wouldn't exist, but with the travel that you've had, the, the work that you've done, the people that you've met, it makes whatever you have to say very poignant because you've lived it.

Trevor Noah 1:47:31 And if I may add to that, I don't think you should ever take for granted how descrawnifying the message-

David Kibuuka 1:47:39 Mm

Trevor Noah 1:47:40 ... like, how important that is.

Vic Mensa 1:47:41 What is descrawnifying?

Trevor Noah 1:47:42 So oftentimes the things you're talking about are delivered by scrawny people that nobody wants to listen to.

David Kibuuka 1:47:48 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:47:49 In dashikis.

David Kibuuka 1:47:50 Privilege.

Trevor Noah 1:47:50 No, no, you wish it's dashikis. I'm talking about, like, when he's talking about, like, anything, Iran, the petrol dollar-

David Kibuuka 1:47:56 Yep.

Vic Mensa 1:47:56 Oh, okay, yes

Trevor Noah 1:47:56 ... um, like race, um, you know, like, the, the, the, the carceral state. You, you name it. A lot of the time, the people who are talking about some of these topics-

David Kibuuka 1:48:04 Geeks

Trevor Noah 1:48:04 ... are scrawny-

Vic Mensa 1:48:05 Scrawny

Trevor Noah 1:48:06 ... geeks that nobody-

David Kibuuka 1:48:07 Old

Trevor Noah 1:48:07 ... wishes-

Vic Mensa 1:48:08 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:48:08 ... to, like-

David Kibuuka 1:48:09 Yes

Trevor Noah 1:48:09 ... you're like, no offense, but, like, the messenger.

David Kibuuka 1:48:12 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:48:12 You know that's one of the reasons that Nelson Mandela was chosen, right?

David Kibuuka 1:48:15 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:48:16 No, tell me about that.

Trevor Noah 1:48:16 Is because the ANC, he wasn't the most, like, senior member in the ANC. He wasn't, like, the, the, the guy.

David Kibuuka 1:48:21 He wasn't even the most outspoken one.

Trevor Noah 1:48:22 Yeah. And then someone saw him speaking-

David Kibuuka 1:48:25 Walter

Trevor Noah 1:48:26 ... yeah, it was, was, was Walter.

David Kibuuka 1:48:27 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:48:27 Walter Sisulu. And was like, "This guy, the thing that he's doing and the way he's doing it-

David Kibuuka 1:48:33 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:48:33 ... is the perfect vehicle for our message."

David Kibuuka 1:48:35 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:48:36 Because people realize ... I mean, it's the same reason Rosa Parks wasn't the first-

Vic Mensa 1:48:41 Right

Trevor Noah 1:48:41 ... person who had an issue on the bus.

David Kibuuka 1:48:43 Yep.

Trevor Noah 1:48:43 But she was the first person where civil rights leaders who were running that movement at that time were like, "She's the perfect person-

David Kibuuka 1:48:49 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:48:49 ... for us to take this forward."

David Kibuuka 1:48:51 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:48:51 You, you, I don't think you should ever take for granted that everything about you, just, like, one, it doesn't really exist.

David Kibuuka 1:49:01 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:49:02 Do you know what I ... There's no one else like you in ... If we overlap everything, what, you know, whether it's punk, hip-hop, the, the tattoos, the Chicago-

David Kibuuka 1:49:11 Race

Trevor Noah 1:49:11 ... the Ghanaian, the, like, you name it.

David Kibuuka 1:49:13 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:49:13 You name it. There's no one like you

Trevor Noah 1:49:15 doing that. So when that vessel presents that video, that message, and that story, someone can't be like, "Yeah, but of course you would say this, you, you, coming from Connecticut."

David Kibuuka 1:49:26 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:49:26 Do you know what I mean?

David Kibuuka 1:49:27 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:49:28 Yeah, of course it's easy for you to say, you, you know, because you, you, you, you're stuck.

David Kibuuka 1:49:33 I feel like that-

Vic Mensa 1:49:34 I like what you said about privilege too, man.

Trevor Noah 1:49:36 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:49:36 I mean, I, I think about privilege a lot, man, and that like, um- One has to be, like, cognizant and conscious of your privileges in order to even have an effective message. You know what I'm saying? In order to have an authentic message, because we all have different privileges. You know what I'm saying? We might be oppressed in ways, be it for our, our race. You know what I mean? We're all Black men on this show right now. Um, but we're also all men, so we also-

Trevor Noah 1:50:03 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:50:03 ... have a tremendous amount of privilege-

Trevor Noah 1:50:05 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:50:05 ... by being men. You know what I mean? By being able-bodied men. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's so many things that go into it. I, I think about that a lot, especially having, having a white mother and, um, having certain comforts in life that have come along with that, and with my father's occupation, him having the privilege to be the only one in his family to come to America.

Trevor Noah 1:50:29 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:50:29 You know what I'm saying? Like, the rest of my family in Ghana, they live in, in, in pretty, in pretty abject poverty. You know what I mean? By, by an American standard, for sure.

Trevor Noah 1:50:39 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:50:39 You know what I mean? It's f- by... It's far from the bottom of the barrel in-

Trevor Noah 1:50:43 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:50:43 ... in their community, but, like, f- by our standard, like-

Trevor Noah 1:50:46 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:50:47 ... not having working restrooms and-

Trevor Noah 1:50:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Vic Mensa 1:50:51 ... roofs caving in and... You know what I mean? Like, working jobs for 50, 60, $70 a month. Like, that's an unfathomable-

Trevor Noah 1:51:00 Hmm.

David Kibuuka 1:51:01 Reality

Vic Mensa 1:51:01 ... fucking reality.

Trevor Noah 1:51:02 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:51:02 You know what I'm saying? But, uh, my dad came to America. He had, he had the privilege to, to get an education here.

David Kibuuka 1:51:10 Mm.

Vic Mensa 1:51:10 And so I'm living a- as both the, the fucking result of, of a lot of privilege in the midst of a lot of oppression at the same time.

Trevor Noah 1:51:21 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:51:21 You know what I'm saying? And, and I think a lot of time, though, I can see even members of my own family, just people close to me, that might have, have trouble acknowledging their privileges because of the amount of trauma, pain, and oppression that they feel, which is valid, but it's like, yo, without acknowledging our privileges-

Trevor Noah 1:51:41 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:51:41 ... then the, the conversation is, is, is only half authe- it's only half real.

Trevor Noah 1:51:47 Mm.

Vic Mensa 1:51:48 You know? It's incomplete. You know what I'm saying? Without-

Trevor Noah 1:51:50 Incomplete, yeah

Vic Mensa 1:51:51 ... acknowledging our privileges, which is why I do, like, in this conversation, you're doing a lot for me by bringing a, bringing a renewed lens-

Trevor Noah 1:52:00 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:52:00 ... to class. Because I, I do think that I get caught up in the hamster wheel of a fixation on race. You know, even when you were talking and you were like, "Something about race," and I was like, "Everything's about race." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:52:13 Mm-hmm. [laughs]

Vic Mensa 1:52:14 You know what I'm saying? Because, yeah, in, in a way, like, in, in America-

Trevor Noah 1:52:18 But I argue it is

Vic Mensa 1:52:19 ... it, it also is, yes.

Trevor Noah 1:52:20 We, we had an episode, just to interject there.

Vic Mensa 1:52:21 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:52:21 We had an episode with Sam Morill, the comedian, right?

Vic Mensa 1:52:24 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:52:24 He was on this podcast. We, we made a joke about something, and I think it was, like, Jingle Bells maybe or something. Just a joke randomly. And then we, we, we talked about one thing, and then I said to Sam, I was like, "Oh, that, that actually has racist roots," like, fully, fully. And then we laughed, and we talked about it. And then he said something else, and I think we said Jingle Bells or whatever it was, and then I said, "Oh, that's also racist." And he's like, "What?" And I was like, "No, I'm joking. I don't know."

Vic Mensa 1:52:46 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:52:46 And then he said, he said, he's like, "Nah, knowing America, it probably is." We checked it up after the show.

Vic Mensa 1:52:51 It, it absolutely was.

Trevor Noah 1:52:51 It was fully racist.

Vic Mensa 1:52:52 It, it was. Like-

Trevor Noah 1:52:53 No,

Trevor Noah 1:52:54 so, so you, you, you are right. Is sort of even to what Dave was saying-

David Kibuuka 1:52:58 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 1:52:58 ... about conspiracies and all of that, both things are true at the same time.

Vic Mensa 1:53:03 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:53:03 It is always about race.

Vic Mensa 1:53:04 Mm-hmm.

David Kibuuka 1:53:04 But-

Trevor Noah 1:53:05 But it might not be.

David Kibuuka 1:53:06 Mm.

Vic Mensa 1:53:06 And then just that the, the class conversation is, is actually the bigger conversation.

Trevor Noah 1:53:11 It's always about class.

Vic Mensa 1:53:12 It's like where do you put the period on the sentence-

Trevor Noah 1:53:14 It's always about class

Vic Mensa 1:53:15 ... is, is important.

Trevor Noah 1:53:16 That's, I like that

Vic Mensa 1:53:16 And it's, I feel like when you put the period on the sentence only after race, then oftentimes you're left without a full sentence, and you're left without, like, a clear goal.

Trevor Noah 1:53:26 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:53:26 You know what I'm saying? Because if you just fixate on the racial dimensions of things without realizing how they're a, a front-

Trevor Noah 1:53:35 Mm

Vic Mensa 1:53:35 ... for the actual class-

Trevor Noah 1:53:37 Yep

Vic Mensa 1:53:37 ... struggle that exists-

Trevor Noah 1:53:38 Yep

Vic Mensa 1:53:38 ... this is a lifetime pursuit. You'll just be frustrated about-

Trevor Noah 1:53:42 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:53:42 ... racism for the rest of your motherfucking life.

Trevor Noah 1:53:44 Yeah. You, you bas-

Vic Mensa 1:53:45 That's what you-

Trevor Noah 1:53:45 You're basically chase-

Vic Mensa 1:53:46 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:53:46 ... 'cause what you're doing now is you're chasing the shadow as opposed to the thing that's casting the shadow.

Vic Mensa 1:53:51 Mm-hmm.

David Kibuuka 1:53:51 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:53:52 And a shadow is real, but it is not the thing that is causing itself. Does that make sense?

David Kibuuka 1:53:58 Yes.

Vic Mensa 1:53:58 Mm-hmm.

David Kibuuka 1:53:58 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:53:58 And so that's, that's the difficulty with, with, with this, is, like, we, we wanna be in a world... When I look at the, just, like, all the great minds, it's often been buried when people talk about their work, but MLK spent, like, a huge amount of his time speaking about class.

David Kibuuka 1:54:15 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:54:15 People now will make a, "Oh, equality for all racially," and it, that's more convenient-

David Kibuuka 1:54:20 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:54:21 ... because that has sort of been addressed sort of. You know? So people can be like, "Well, MLK's dream has been achieved." And it's like, no, no, no, but if you go look at what he talked about class-wise-

David Kibuuka 1:54:30 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:54:30 ... you're like, "Damn, no, no, no, don't... This guy's rattling the cage." And I think that's why there are politicians today that are experiencing the success that they are. I actually think the death of the, of the old-school politician is that they still think race is the number one cudgel-

David Kibuuka 1:54:47 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:54:47 ... and it isn't. Trump didn't win because of race.

David Kibuuka 1:54:51 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:54:51 People will say that he did, and there's definitely parts of his message that are t- intertwined in and around race.

David Kibuuka 1:54:57 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:54:58 But I argue the man won because of class. He appealed to class in a way that few people fully understand.

David Kibuuka 1:55:03 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:55:03 And that's

Trevor Noah 1:55:04 why him and Mamdani could be in the same room, and that's why people could say, "I voted for Mamdani, but I also voted for Trump." And people are like, "What? How?" Yeah.

David Kibuuka 1:55:11 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:55:12 Because both of them spoke to class.

David Kibuuka 1:55:14 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 1:55:14 So the person who's listening goes, "No, no, no, I heard what Trump said. He said that I've been left behind. I have been left behind."

David Kibuuka 1:55:23 Yeah. Even, even that phrase truth to power, because people always think you can only speak truth to power as it comes from a person who's under and then speaking to someone who's above. But someone who's above-

Trevor Noah 1:55:32 No

David Kibuuka 1:55:32 ... can speak to someone who's under-

Trevor Noah 1:55:33 Yeah

David Kibuuka 1:55:34 ... and speak their truth to that power, because that person also has power as well.

Trevor Noah 1:55:37 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:55:38 Martin Luther King really became-

David Kibuuka 1:55:40 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:55:40 In immense danger when he started talking about a poor people's movement

Trevor Noah 1:55:43 Oh, yeah. That was-

Vic Mensa 1:55:45 For sure that's when they assassinate you. I mean, Chairman Fred Hampton, he became that immense danger when he made the Rainbow Coalition combining-

Trevor Noah 1:55:52 Uh-huh. When he, when he pulled in poor white people

Vic Mensa 1:55:54 ... the poor white group-

Trevor Noah 1:55:54 Oh, it was-

Vic Mensa 1:55:55 ... the Young Patriots with the-

Trevor Noah 1:55:56 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:55:56 ... Puerto Rican Young Lords with the Black Panther Party.

Trevor Noah 1:55:59 Yep.

Vic Mensa 1:55:59 When you-

Trevor Noah 1:56:00 Mm

Vic Mensa 1:56:00 ... shift to a focus on class that doesn't ignore race, which is where I think a lot of the liberals m- lose me, is that they wanna look at class-

Trevor Noah 1:56:10 Mm

Vic Mensa 1:56:10 ... as if race is not an interconnected, intrinsically-

Trevor Noah 1:56:14 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Vic Mensa 1:56:15 ... important-

Trevor Noah 1:56:15 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:56:15 ... dimension of it. When, when, when you see people shift to a focus on class is when they become a real fucking threat to the power structure.

Trevor Noah 1:56:23 Dangerous.

Vic Mensa 1:56:23 And Martin Luther King was... I mean, he was, he was living dangerously.

Trevor Noah 1:56:29 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:56:29 Like, he gets sanitized as being turn the other cheek-

Trevor Noah 1:56:34 Mm-hmm

Vic Mensa 1:56:34 ... like just a pacifist, but he really wasn't a pacifist. He just had a very brilliant mode of combat, in my mind.

Trevor Noah 1:56:43 Mm.

Vic Mensa 1:56:43 Was that he understood that by using non-violent techniques, that he could heighten the contradictions-

Trevor Noah 1:56:53 Yes

Vic Mensa 1:56:53 ... with the cameras on. And he made sure the cameras was on so that you saw them getting beaten down and hosed and-

Trevor Noah 1:57:00 Sure

Vic Mensa 1:57:00 ... and bricked and hit with bats, and you saw them not responding with violence so that you had absolutely no question about who was the perpetrator.

Trevor Noah 1:57:10 Yeah. You couldn't edit it and get a snapshot.

Vic Mensa 1:57:13 Yeah. You just, you... It was, it was crystal clear-

Trevor Noah 1:57:16 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:57:16 ... who was in the wrong.

Trevor Noah 1:57:17 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:57:17 And Martin Luther King made sure of that. And I think a lot of my life I felt like, "Oh, I must choose between Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, and I'm more Malcolm X, 'cause I'm gonna punch the white motherfucker back in the face," you know?

Trevor Noah 1:57:29 Mm-hmm.

Vic Mensa 1:57:30 Um, but like really though, the, Martin Luther King's, his, his methodology, it took so much strength.

Trevor Noah 1:57:39 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:57:39 Like, it, it arguably takes more fucking strength to exercise restraint in the face of violence than to respond with violence. Not that that's the only strategy.

Trevor Noah 1:57:49 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:57:49 You know, I think those things have to exist concurrently. But yeah, learning more about Martin Luther, that's why I love that you used him in your newest, uh, used some of those stories in your newest special, because his legacy has been,

Vic Mensa 1:58:03 um-

Trevor Noah 1:58:04 Oh, it's been flattened

Vic Mensa 1:58:04 ... manipulated-

Trevor Noah 1:58:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Vic Mensa 1:58:05 ... and flattened-

Trevor Noah 1:58:06 Yeah

Vic Mensa 1:58:06 ... like you said, into, like, some fucking Disney Channel shit.

Trevor Noah 1:58:08 Yeah.

Vic Mensa 1:58:09 You know what I'm saying? And but really he was, he was super revolutionary.

Trevor Noah 1:58:13 What's interesting as well is how much they moved towards each other. You know, Malcolm X is always framed as this, like, burn it all down person. MLK is always framed as, like, kumbaya-

Vic Mensa 1:58:23 Right

Trevor Noah 1:58:23 ... let's all hug all the time. And if you look at their writings and what they, what they shared towards the end of their lives, they sort of gravitated towards the other. Malcolm X was going, "Hey, maybe we should speak more-

Vic Mensa 1:58:34 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:58:34 ... and maybe we should be a little softer." And, and MLK was-

Vic Mensa 1:58:37 Let's talk to white people, you know, they-

Trevor Noah 1:58:38 And M- MLK was like, "Nah, maybe, maybe we should, you know, protest. Maybe we should riot a little bit more. Maybe we should-"

Vic Mensa 1:58:44 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:58:44 It, it, it is interesting how we find that, that middle, and it makes me wonder with you, like, let's talk... You know, you've got old Vic Mensa where... Or, or rather-

Vic Mensa 1:58:55 Alternate universe Vic Mensa.

Trevor Noah 1:58:56 No, let's talk about the, like, the Vic Mensa that-

Vic Mensa 1:58:57 The Rick and Morty portal

Trevor Noah 1:58:58 ... people couldn't have, like, known-

Vic Mensa 1:59:00 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:59:00 ... because social media wasn't what it was.

Vic Mensa 1:59:02 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 1:59:02 Right? Who is this guy? Oh, he, hip-hop artist, but he's also he wants to fight all the time. He's angry, whatever. Now we see you. Like, in your videos

Trevor Noah 1:59:10 you're laughing, you're peeling that orange. By the way, how do you peel them so effic- Like, what, what type of orange is that? I wanna know.

Vic Mensa 1:59:17 AI.

Trevor Noah 1:59:17 No, no, no. Not-

Vic Mensa 1:59:18 [laughs]

1:59:18 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:59:18 No, no, no. I mean this, I mean this. Can I see your hands? Can I just see your hands?

Vic Mensa 1:59:23 These hands have peeled infinite oranges.

Trevor Noah 1:59:25 No, no, no. I, like-

Vic Mensa 1:59:27 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:59:27 I genuinely wanna know, like, how-

Vic Mensa 1:59:30 How do you start the peeling? Because usually I bite the-

Trevor Noah 1:59:33 Do you, do you peel orange-

Vic Mensa 1:59:34 Yeah, no, I bite the top first-

Trevor Noah 1:59:35 Let me tell you something

Vic Mensa 1:59:36 ... and then I'm like, "Ugh"

Trevor Noah 1:59:36 Let me tell you something.

Vic Mensa 1:59:37 Then I go in.

Trevor Noah 1:59:38 He-

Vic Mensa 1:59:38 Because my thumbs-

1:59:39 You're a nut. You bite it?

1:59:39 I don't trust my... Yo, you make it seem like it's the easiest thing.

Trevor Noah 1:59:42 I, I think-

Vic Mensa 1:59:43 My man, have you ever tried to start an orange?

Trevor Noah 1:59:44 You start-

Vic Mensa 1:59:45 Yes, I have. But how- [laughs]

Trevor Noah 1:59:46 Like, you... I've never seen a video where you go in and you're like, "Yo, let- let's talk about-"

Vic Mensa 1:59:50 Yeah

Trevor Noah 1:59:50 ... "the subjugation of pe-"

Vic Mensa 1:59:52 Uh. Uh.

Trevor Noah 1:59:53 You just peel-

Vic Mensa 1:59:53 'Cause you could end up with two halves. Yeah. So how do you... First, how do you penetrate?

1:59:57 I control... Whoa. Whoa.

2:00:00 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 2:00:02 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 2:00:03 Whoa. You're definitely not from Philly, Mr. Philly.

2:00:06 If you're watching, if you're watching, if you're watching this on YouTube, you will see my hands.

2:00:09 Ake.

2:00:09 And that's it, man. [laughs]

2:00:10 Take it easy, Ak.

2:00:12 [laughs] Ah, I gotcha, I gotcha.

Trevor Noah 2:00:16 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 2:00:16 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 2:00:16 No, but for real. How do you, like-

Vic Mensa 2:00:17 Oh, shit. I control the edit

Trevor Noah 2:00:19 ... those are, those are the two questions.

Vic Mensa 2:00:20 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 2:00:20 Okay. Secondly, how many oranges are on this tree?

Vic Mensa 2:00:26 Infinite. It blooms year-round.

Trevor Noah 2:00:30 These are the, the biggest things that have plagued me about this series.

Vic Mensa 2:00:33 And I'm the psycho for, for biting the first-

2:00:36 Yes, yeah. You're a nutcase for that

Trevor Noah 2:00:36 No, I don't think you're, I don't think you're crazy at all. Sometimes-

Vic Mensa 2:00:38 For biting an orange peel

Trevor Noah 2:00:39 ... sometimes an orange needs to be bitten.

Vic Mensa 2:00:40 Yeah. Then t- just to open up the-

Trevor Noah 2:00:41 No, no, he's right

Vic Mensa 2:00:42 ... the gateway-

Trevor Noah 2:00:43 He's right

Vic Mensa 2:00:43 ... for my thumb to go in-

Trevor Noah 2:00:43 I wanna, I wanna see you-

Vic Mensa 2:00:44 Oh, no

2:00:44 You know what it is. Sorry. Just a, a thing is, you know when you have a... It used to happen with beer drinkers a lot, but when they have a bottle of beer-

2:00:53 Mm-hmm

2:00:54 ... and then they can't open it.

2:00:55 Then they go with their teeth.

2:00:56 Yes. It's like, what do you... 'Cause some people are like, "No, I have to find a bottle opener."

2:01:02 Yeah.

2:01:02 You know? That's... So if you can't-

2:01:04 You roll the motherfucker first, then it gets softer. Somebody told me that, 'cause they saw me struggling to open them, and they was like, "Yo, you need to roll it."

Trevor Noah 2:01:10 Okay. So someone had... Okay.

Vic Mensa 2:01:12 Yeah, but the structural integrity-

2:01:14 They did

2:01:14 ... of the orange goes away-

Trevor Noah 2:01:14 No, no, no, no

Vic Mensa 2:01:14 ... when you start peeling it

Trevor Noah 2:01:15 ... this is true. It does become... It does. Yeah. But what I... This is all I was searching for.

Vic Mensa 2:01:19 Roll it.

Trevor Noah 2:01:19 I wanted to know if we've met you as a masterful orange peel, like, peeler-

Vic Mensa 2:01:26 Yeah

Trevor Noah 2:01:27 ... or if you have-

Vic Mensa 2:01:28 Yeah

Trevor Noah 2:01:28 ... developed into this man.

Vic Mensa 2:01:29 Over time.

Trevor Noah 2:01:29 Now you've answered my question.

Vic Mensa 2:01:31 Yeah. Once I had the tree, then I started to learn more about oranges.

Trevor Noah 2:01:33 Okay. Okay. I-

Vic Mensa 2:01:34 What did you learn about oranges, actually?

2:01:36 Well, just how to peel them. Like, how to roll it. I don't know the, the, the science of this tree. I don't know why this tree blooms year-round.

Trevor Noah 2:01:43 I j- I genuinely-

Vic Mensa 2:01:44 I actually don't know

Trevor Noah 2:01:44 ... I'm so fascinated-

Vic Mensa 2:01:45 But it does, though

Trevor Noah 2:01:46 ... I'm so fascinated by this tree

Vic Mensa 2:01:46 ... it blooms in all seasons.

2:01:47 Mm.

2:01:48 I have no clue why I wish I had a more witty answer for it, but-

Trevor Noah 2:01:51 What made you do it the first time?

Vic Mensa 2:01:56 I was talking about So- you know, I was talking about South Africa, low-key. It was, like, right around the time I was ta- talking about South Africa, near when the South African, um, the white, the white genocide-

Trevor Noah 2:02:07 Oh, yes, yes, yes

Vic Mensa 2:02:08 ... uh, wa- was taking place. And, um, I had a friend come over to, like, film something with me in my studio, and, um, and I just had that idea. It was, it was no, like, serendipitous moment. But it was right around the time when I was talking of, talking about the, uh, white genocide in South Africa.

Trevor Noah 2:02:25 But didn't it have that feel of, like ... Or at least me, if you'd asked me how you got to it, I'd have been like, "Whatever w- was in that balk- backyard was going down." So if you had, like-

David Kibuuka 2:02:35 Chicken there

Trevor Noah 2:02:36 ... chickens there, he was going, like, kill a chicken while I talk.

Vic Mensa 2:02:37 If I had chickens, then I was just like-

David Kibuuka 2:02:39 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 2:02:39 ... "You know, I am a voodoo man."

Trevor Noah 2:02:40 A sheep-

Vic Mensa 2:02:41 My grandfather was voodoo-

Trevor Noah 2:02:42 ... I break his neck

Vic Mensa 2:02:42 ... ceremony.

Trevor Noah 2:02:43 [laughs]

Vic Mensa 2:02:44 So it would've been a different vibe. I'd have been real Azalea Banks.

David Kibuuka 2:02:47 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 2:02:47 Wow.

Vic Mensa 2:02:47 I pull the goddamn chicken, I say, "You know what about racism?" [laughs]

David Kibuuka 2:02:51 [laughs]