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What Now? With Trevor NoahWhat Now? With Trevor Noah

Welcome To The Julia Louis-Dreyfus Brain Museum | What Now? with Trevor Noah Podcast

There’s probably only one actress who can try to strangle, burn and eat “Death”, and still manage to make us laugh. And that’s Julia Louis-Dreyfus in her new movie Tuesday.

Trevor NoahhostJulia Louis-Dreyfusguest
Sep 12, 202444mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 1:36

    Warm-Up Banter About Directing and "And Action"

    1. TN

      Okay. As soon as you're ready, I'm ready.

    2. JL

      I'm ready.

    3. TN

      Let's go. Start talking [laughs] . All right.

    4. JL

      Go.

    5. TN

      Let's do it. Let's go.

    6. JL

      Action.

    7. TN

      And action. What's ... Do you like the "and" when they do "and action," or do you just like "action?"

    8. JL

      "And."

    9. TN

      Doesn't "and" just become ... Isn't it like saying, "Action, action," basically?

    10. JL

      No, because "and" is before action, so it's half the beat before. It's like saying, "One, two, three, go," same thing. Same idea.

    11. TN

      Okay, so it just gives everybody, like, a moment to-

    12. JL

      Yes, as opposed to, "Action."

    13. TN

      Oh, yeah.

    14. JL

      Which means-

    15. TN

      I can feel that.

    16. JL

      You feel that?

    17. TN

      I can feel that. Does the, does the way a director kick off a scene influence how the scene goes?

    18. JL

      It can.

    19. TN

      Like, if you're doing, like, a really intimate, calm scene or, like, a- and someone's like, "Action," does that throw everything off? Or ...

    20. JL

      [laughs] What do you think?

    21. TN

      I don't know. I genuinely don't know.

    22. JL

      No. Yes, it would absolutely throw it off. It would be a disaster for everyone.

    23. TN

      Oh, I wanna be the director who switches it up. And action, Will Smith.

    24. JL

      [laughs]

    25. TN

      Yeah. That's great. That's great. Loved the way you ran across the bridge. [upbeat music] This is What Now? With Trevor Noah. Welcome to another episode of What Now?, the podcast where we have interesting conversations with interesting people, who oftentimes make us think or feel. And I think our guest today is, honestly, you know,

  2. 1:36 – 6:11

    Evolving a Career: Luck, Ambition and Bouncing Back

    1. TN

      the pinnacle of that. If you watched everything or anything, you'd know her from Seinfeld, uh, the character Elaine, the best dance move, uh, ever in history.

    2. JL

      Mm.

    3. TN

      Um, if you, uh, watched HBO or if you had access to the show, you know Veep, the show that satirized American politics, and then American Politicians was like, "Well, we're just gonna do that."

    4. JL

      Sorry.

    5. TN

      [laughs]

    6. JL

      Sorry, everyone.

    7. TN

      [laughs] Oh, wow. Um, if you watch movies, you know her from really wonderful, fascinating movies that oftentimes don't match up with what you think she would be doing from what you've seen her doing on TV.

    8. JL

      Mm.

    9. TN

      And today we're having a conversation about one of those movies. It's a film called Tuesday, a fascinating story about a mother and daughter who are grappling with death that is knocking at their door in the form of a macaw. So, uh, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, welcome to What Now?

    10. JL

      Thank you, Trevor.

    11. TN

      It's so good to have you, especially considering, like, A, how busy you are, and then B, how famous you are. I, like, do you ever ... No, I, I, I was thinking about this, and it, it sort of framed, you know, what I'd wanna talk to you about today, and it's, it's evolution in all forms.

    12. JL

      Mm.

    13. TN

      And it's not really about the fame. It's just about, like ... So let's, let's call it impact even.

    14. JL

      Okay.

    15. TN

      You know? You, you, you have impact in the '90s, starring in one of the most successful sitcoms of all time.

    16. JL

      Yeah.

    17. TN

      And then, you know, you have impact in the, the 2000s on Veep as one of the ... You know, it's the most successful-

    18. JL

      Yeah

    19. TN

      ... like, hardcore, you know, HBO, like, you know-

    20. JL

      Yeah

    21. TN

      ... just go all in. But that's, that's the vibe at the time. SNL, I even forget SNL. Think about, like, 'cause that was before my time as in I wasn't watching American TV. And then now you're doing it again in film, and you're in the podcast space, which makes me feel good, by the way.

    22. JL

      Why?

    23. TN

      Well, because if you're doing podcast, then I think I'm in the right space at the right time.

    24. JL

      You're perfect for podcast because you're, you're such a conversationalist, and you-

    25. TN

      Oh, thank you.

    26. JL

      You are. Yeah. I mean, I've heard your podcast. You're, you're quite good at it, just to-

    27. TN

      Well, thank you. Thank you very much

    28. JL

      ... throw some back at you.

    29. TN

      Thank you very much. I like to start with a little, little self-compliments.

    30. JL

      Yes.

  3. 6:11 – 10:08

    Why She Works: Fishing, Teamwork and Play

    1. TN

      one of my, my favorite people I've seen speak about this is Denzel Washington, where he-

    2. JL

      Oh

    3. TN

      ... he like, he doesn't take it as seriously as people would think he does.

    4. JL

      Right.

    5. TN

      But he loves doing it, and he respects the craft, and he... But he also goes, "What a fun, silly thing to be doing."

    6. JL

      It's ridiculous.

    7. TN

      You know what I mean?

    8. JL

      Yeah. You're making a living doing pr- pretending.

    9. TN

      Yes, pretending, but then making people feel real.

    10. JL

      Yeah, which I love. I remember when I was little, really little, and I was in the car with my mom, and she was driving, and she was, I don't know, talking to somebody in the front seat. And I was listening to the conversation, and I was noticing how it didn't sound like people acting. It was people talking. So I've already started to notice things like that.

    11. TN

      How old were you when this was happening? What do you-

    12. JL

      Maybe eight.

    13. TN

      Wow.

    14. JL

      But I remember noticing that. And anyway, I don't know why that just popped into my head, but it did.

    15. TN

      You're just sitting in the car-

    16. JL

      Listening

    17. TN

      ... and you're going, "This is, this sounds real."

    18. JL

      This sounds real, yeah. This sounds real.

    19. TN

      When did you know you wanted to do that? Like, I, I-

    20. JL

      Oh, from the get-go. I mean, I don't remember knowing that I didn't want to do it. [laughs] I've always wanted to do it.

    21. TN

      But what did you want to get into, the show or the business?

    22. JL

      The show. I wanted to be in a show.

    23. TN

      Yeah?

    24. JL

      Yeah. I mean, I wanted to, you know, play a part.

    25. TN

      I, I, I, I was listening to your conversation with Conan, which was really great, and, and the two of you talked about how there used to be like a linear path to success. It was like you, you, you do a, you make a sitcom-

    26. JL

      Yeah

    27. TN

      ... and then you hope that another one comes, and then maybe there's a movie, and then your life is over. You, you, you've broken that mold time and time again, and when I speak to people who are in the industry, like if I say, "Oh, I'm gonna be talking to Julia Louis-Dreyfus," it's amazing how they all admire you for forging like a, like a, like a new idea of what you can do.

    28. JL

      Hm.

    29. TN

      Do you feel that for yourself as well? Do you ever... Like, what I mean is, do you think to yourself, "I'm going to do something new purposefully," or i- is it the luck that's coinciding with you just wanting to work?

    30. JL

      I, it's not something, necessarily something new. I wouldn't sort of, uh, characterize it as such. I would say I'm gonna do something that gets me going, and I'm gonna find that again. Does, does that make sense?

  4. 10:08 – 11:42

    The Real Julia vs. Her Public Persona

    1. TN

      And w- were you like, I've met you out, and I feel like, like at the club, I want everybody to know this, you were partying hard. We were at the club.

    2. JL

      Yeah.

    3. TN

      It was a good time. I was like, "Wow."

    4. JL

      It was a great time.

    5. TN

      I was like, "JLD, what you doing in the club?" She's like, "I can't hear you." I was like, "That's 'cause we're in the club."

    6. JL

      Yeah, I know.

    7. TN

      But when we met, when, when-

    8. JL

      And we were wasted.

    9. TN

      [laughs] No, but when I, when I met you out, I was, I was, um, pleasantly surprised at how close you are to some of the characters you play. Obviously not as crazy and as quirky as, as-

    10. JL

      No

    11. TN

      ... you know, as some of the moments, but there's, there's, there's the underlying current of you in everything.

    12. JL

      Sure.

    13. TN

      You know, and then, and then, you know, like, like in this, in this new movie, for instance, that you're in, Tuesday, I, I don't recognize you, to be honest.

    14. JL

      Okay.

    15. TN

      I don't, I, well, no, which I think is a good, like I see parts of what I th- who I think you are, but-

    16. JL

      Yeah

    17. TN

      ... but I, I don't see you you, you know?

    18. JL

      The, the me that you know.

    19. TN

      Yes, the, yeah, exactly.

    20. JL

      Mm-hmm.

    21. TN

      Exactly.

    22. JL

      Hm.

    23. TN

      Who, who do people think you are versus who you are? Like, how far do you think those two are from each other?

    24. JL

      Well, they always think I'm gonna be funny, which I'm not. I mean, I am, but I'm not, you know?

    25. TN

      Yeah, but you are.

    26. JL

      But you know what I mean.

    27. TN

      Yeah, okay. Yes.

    28. JL

      I'm sure it's the same for you. Uh, pe- uh, people are expecting-

    29. TN

      Yes

    30. JL

      ... uh, something to come from you.

  5. 11:42 – 17:07

    Tuesday: Genre, Animation and Denial

    1. TN

      Yeah, Tuesday was, um, first of all, thank you.

    2. JL

      Oh, wow.

    3. TN

      I know it's a weird thing to say, but thank you.

    4. JL

      Oh, wow.

    5. TN

      So I, 'cause I, I, I watch things before they interview, and then sometimes they're terrible.

    6. JL

      Yeah.

    7. TN

      And I don't mean that in like a, like a, like a disparaging, it's just like they're terrible.

    8. JL

      Well, they can't all be good, right?

    9. TN

      Yes, exactly. Uh, um, you know, half my stand-up I'm sure is terrible, so I understand, but I don't put it out. But this was like, it wasn't just amazing, it, it was also way deeper than I thought it was gonna be, and I didn't know what to expect.

    10. JL

      Oh, good. Oh, good

    11. TN

      I'm not gonna lie. I, so I watched it cold.

    12. JL

      You had no idea?

    13. TN

      No idea what I was getting into, which is like, I, which is how I like to watch movies.

    14. JL

      Sure. That makes sense.

    15. TN

      Yeah.

    16. JL

      Yeah.

    17. TN

      And then I, I got into it and I was like, "Is this a horror?" Then I was like, "No, it's not. No. Wait, what, what is happening here?" It's really disconcerting.

    18. JL

      Yeah. Well, I mean-

    19. TN

      You know what I mean?

    20. JL

      Yes. It's a fantasy. It's a, it's a sort of a fairy tale, um, with magical realism, and you go on this journey with, with m- with the sort of three main characters.

    21. TN

      Yeah.

    22. JL

      M- my character, Zora, my daughter, Tuesday, and of course Death.

    23. TN

      I almost don't wanna spoil it for anybody.

    24. JL

      Yeah.

    25. TN

      But I wanna talk about the themes and the story. I will say things that hopefully will make people watch the movie.

    26. JL

      Okay. That's good. But-

    27. TN

      But won't make them understand the movie.

    28. JL

      Okay. There's, but we won't be able to pick it completely apart anyway, 'cause it's sort of multilevel, that movie, I think.

    29. TN

      L-

    30. JL

      But anyway, I'm so curious to know what, uh, appealed to you or didn't or whatever about the movie. I really am.

  6. 17:07 – 19:24

    Death, Denial and Not Believing We'll Die

    1. JL

      Yeah. But you know what else is weird? We're all g- I mean, this movie, uh, you know, it's a, it's a conversation starter, I suppose, about death and dying-

    2. TN

      Mm-hmm

    3. JL

      ... and afterlife and all of that, and it is an extraordinary to consider that we're all gonna die, and we don't really think about it too much. But it's funny to think that all the people in this room, you know, we're all gonna be dead one day.

    4. TN

      You hear that, folks?

    5. JL

      Weird. Did I-

    6. TN

      We're all gonna be dead

    7. JL

      ... creep you out?

    8. TN

      [laughs] That's what I loved about the movie-

    9. JL

      [laughs]

    10. TN

      ... was you were playing, in my opinion, everybody's idea of who should and shouldn't die.

    11. JL

      Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm. Okay.

    12. TN

      Like, you represented the idea that we all have of who, like, we all think we know who should and shouldn't die and when they should and shouldn't die.

    13. JL

      Yeah. I'm negotiating with death.

    14. TN

      Yes.

    15. JL

      Yeah.

    16. TN

      I have a friend who always says, "You don't know that you're gonna die." He, he has this theory, and I, I actually believe him. He goes, "We all do not know that we're gonna die."

    17. JL

      Well, what, what-

    18. TN

      We, we think, like, we, as a theoretical idea-

    19. JL

      Okay

    20. TN

      ... we understand that death is the conclusion of life.

    21. JL

      Yes.

    22. TN

      But he argues, and I, I, I felt it in this film in a way, he argues that nobody knows that they're gonna die. Like, we- I, I know it, it seems like it's-

    23. JL

      Well, would he agree that your body will stop working at some point?

    24. TN

      No, no, no, he b- he says, but he just says as people-

    25. JL

      Because if that's not the case, your friend needs some major help.

    26. TN

      No, no, no. So this is what, this is what, what he said for me tied into the film, because every day people are dying.

    27. JL

      Yes.

    28. TN

      Right? I would argue that most people are shocked when they die.

    29. JL

      Shocked, or, and the people around them are shocked.

    30. TN

      Yes, but, and that's what he's saying, is because nobody knows. Like, nobody ... It's like we don't know that it'll happen. We don't believe that it'll happen, we're told it like a theoretical thing.

  7. 19:24 – 24:21

    Physical Comedy, Falling and the Veep Almonds Scene

    1. TN

      Okay, so this is what I wanted to ask you about comedy-wise. I, I'm fascinated by physical comedy.

    2. JL

      Mm-hmm. It's really fun, isn't it?

    3. TN

      It is both-

    4. JL

      [laughs]

    5. TN

      ... the lowest form of comedy, and simultaneously the highest.

    6. JL

      Yes. Yes.

    7. TN

      And so I wanted to know from you-

    8. JL

      [laughs]

    9. TN

      ... like, like how are you thinking of physical comedy in a movie about death that's really sad, but you're still doing something really funny, but it's not the same way you would do the funny as Elaine? Like, okay, like the scene for instance where you grow to the size of the room.

    10. JL

      Mm.

    11. TN

      It's very funny.

    12. JL

      You think?

    13. TN

      I th- You didn't think it was funny?

    14. JL

      Uh, no, I didn't think of it as being funny, but I'm delighted you did. It's fine.

    15. TN

      Oh, damn, I might have that comedian brain thing where I laugh at the wrong things.

    16. JL

      It's okay. It's, you know, you're the winner, you laughed.

    17. TN

      I, well, I didn't laugh. I thought it was funny.

    18. JL

      Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah.

    19. TN

      It didn't make me laugh, but I went, "This is a funny ... Your-

    20. JL

      It's weird. I would say it's weird.

    21. TN

      Yes. Yes.

    22. JL

      It's weird. But that's different than physical comedy, you know? I think. I mean, in my view.

    23. TN

      Well, but you ... Well, but you're the expert, I would, I would defer to you.

    24. JL

      Well, I mean, when you say physical comedy, I'm thinking of using, uh, your body sort of physically to get the laugh, to enhance a joke, as opposed to in this film there's all this crazy physical stuff that happens, but i- it wasn't in service of a joke necessarily. Does that make sense?

    25. TN

      That makes complete sense.

    26. JL

      Okay.

    27. TN

      And so the way I interpret physical comedy is I go, how does somebody do something with their body that can make you laugh whether or not the int- That's why I talk about falling.

    28. JL

      Yeah, falling is great.

    29. TN

      Like, I think f- I think falling is the best physical comedy f-

    30. JL

      Yeah. [laughs]

  8. 24:21 – 30:01

    Grief, Loss and Relationships That Shift

    1. TN

      I couldn't help find myself wondering when I, when I was watching the story about Tuesday, I couldn't help wondering how much of it you drew from your, from your life, or how much of it, like-

    2. JL

      Oh

    3. TN

      ... reminded you of, of your life. You know? You, you've shared, um, you know, your story of, of, like, the pain of loss in your life.

    4. JL

      Yes.

    5. TN

      You know, losing your dad, for instance.

    6. JL

      Yes.

    7. TN

      And, and just, like, how much he meant to you, his love of poetry and, and, you know, the, the way he connected with you as a human being and shaped you into who we see you as today. And you know, you've, you've shared your journey, for instance, diagnosed with cancer and, and how that affected you, et cetera. When you're watching the movie Tuesday, I feel like everyone can and will connect with it because everyone has or will deal with loss and grief in some way, shape, or form. And I wondered when, when you were, like, when you were doing that, was, was there a part of you that was either remembering or processing or feeling or e- y- you know, did, did it connect with you in a way that went just beyond the story?

    8. JL

      Oh, without question. The entire movie. I, I tapped into my experience, um, as someone who is, I've lost, uh, a number of people who were very close to me. I d- I certainly tapped into that. I tapped into the ferocity that I feel as a mother, um, and my bond with my children. Yes, I would fight death-

    9. TN

      Mm

    10. JL

      ... to save my child's life. I would fight death. I wouldn't even hesitate. So I tapped into all of that stuff, all of it. And, um, to, because that's your job as a, as an actor. You have to bring honesty.

    11. TN

      Yeah.

    12. JL

      And so that's what I was, I did. And was not, it was not easy.

    13. TN

      How do you move on after, uh-

    14. JL

      Loss?

    15. TN

      ... like, like loss?

    16. JL

      Well, it, I mean, in my experience anyway, and people suffer all kinds of different loss and, um, of course, but in my experience, you know, it obviously, it takes time. And, and then, um, something that sort of helped me, and I've found it to be the case, is that it's not like the relationship with the person that you've lost has ended. It's just shifted. So for example, you mentioned my father. So I think of my father all the time. I, I feel as if I still have a relationship with him, and it's maybe more of a mysterious spiritual relationship.

    17. TN

      Mm-hmm.

    18. JL

      But he's very much in my, my being. And, uh, so it's a shift. It's a shift. What about you? Have you had a lot of loss?

    19. TN

      The only loss I've experienced in my life, I think, is my grandmother. I remember thinking about this. Wh- when it happened, I didn't realize that I'd never experienced grief until that moment.

    20. JL

      Mm. Were you with her when she passed?

    21. TN

      No. No, I wasn't.

    22. JL

      Okay.

    23. TN

      But I remember when my gran passed, it was a, it was, it's almost like there was a door inside my chest that had never been opened.

    24. JL

      Oh.

    25. TN

      And all of a sudden, somebody opened it.

    26. JL

      Yeah.

    27. TN

      And I was feeling something that I, I couldn't, you know, it's like a, it's like a color on a wheel that, that doesn't have a name or label attached to it.

    28. JL

      I see.

    29. TN

      So you go, it is neither sadness, nor, nor is it, nor is it joy, but it feels like both at the same time. I, I, I can't explain it. I, I found myself crying, but also smiling.

    30. JL

      Ah.

  9. 30:01 – 34:27

    Wiser Than Me Podcast and Advice to Her Younger Self

    1. TN

      So you're also the host and creator and, um, driving force behind a podcast that has become really successful, uh, Wiser Than Me. It's different because it's, it's not the same type of project.

    2. JL

      No.

    3. TN

      It's not attached to a giant studio. It's not a machine.

    4. JL

      Right.

    5. TN

      But it still excited you, I'm assuming.

    6. JL

      It did. Yeah.

    7. TN

      And it's-

    8. JL

      I mean, it excited me because i- it was r- that decision was really driven by my own, my own curiosity. I mean, for real. And, um- And sort of like consternation at the fact that older women become invisible, and older men, particularly older white men, are not s- invisible. And that irritates me, but m- but it's not really being driven by irritation. [laughs] It's being driven by curiosity, 'cause I saw this p- um, documentary about Jane Fonda, which if you haven't seen it, you really should 'cause you'd really be interested in it. And so it got me thinking like, "Wow, I didn't know all of this about Jane Fonda. She's got this huge life. She's done all so many different things."

    9. TN

      Yeah.

    10. JL

      I- and I hadn't really cons- given that consideration, and then I thought, "Well, who else is... There must be so many older women in the universe who have done so many things, and we're not hearing from them in an in-depth kind of way, and I wish that somebody would do that." And then I thought, "Okay, I guess I'm gonna do that." 'Cause I was r- 'cause I was very curious about it, but it's hard work doing a podcast, in case you didn't know.

    11. TN

      Yeah, but yours seems like it's, it's particularly hard because you, you, you have a conversation with a person who you admire that sort of like starts in the benign and really blossoms into this beautiful examination of life and how you see yourself and the stories you'll tell and the stories they'll tell-

    12. JL

      Yeah

    13. TN

      ... and, and the advice that they'll give you, like, on the show.

    14. JL

      Yeah, it's amazing, right?

    15. TN

      D- do you know what I mean? Like, like there was one episode, I forget who it was, and she was, she was basically like chastising you for being worried about death and aging and everything.

    16. JL

      Isabella Allende.

    17. TN

      Yeah. It was, but it was really amazing. It was, it, it feels like you are, in a way, connecting us with a... It's, it's spiritual. That's the way I'd put it.

    18. JL

      Mm. It feels spiritual to me as I'm doing it, even though it's, just takes so much time. [laughs] But it does. It feels, every time I finish one of these conversations, first of all, I'm exhausted, and, but I am, you know, half the time I'm weeping, and I feel, uh, uh, better for it.

    19. TN

      If you were interviewing you as like, like the young you. Let's say it was, it was, let's say you were on your podcast-

    20. JL

      Mm

    21. TN

      ... as you now, but then speaking to you when you were, like, kicking things off. Is there anything you would change? It, it doesn't seem like there's anything changeable in your life.

    22. JL

      Oh, that I would tell myself?

    23. TN

      Yeah.

    24. JL

      Oh, absolutely. Sure.

    25. TN

      No, like what?

    26. JL

      Well, you think I'm making a joke, but I'm not. I would say wear sunscreen. I'm not kidding you. Wear sunscreen.

    27. TN

      Hmm.

    28. JL

      I know. It's not deep, but it's really practical. And I would say trust your instincts.

    29. TN

      When did you ever not trust your instinct and, and regret it?

    30. JL

      I was not as s- as self-assured as I wish I could've been when I was, uh... I, I, I had an interior monologue of questioning myself a lot-

  10. 34:27 – 37:29

    Evolving Comedy and Balancing Audience and Authenticity

    1. JL

      I do.

    2. TN

      [laughs] Um, I saw, I, I, I was reading this thing about, uh, w- I think it was a profile in The New York Times, and they were asking you a question that I feel like everyone is getting asked all the time. I, I don't remember-

    3. JL

      Right

    4. TN

      ... people not being asked it in the last, let's, let's say, like, seven-ish years. And the question was, "Do you think that there is comedy that cannot be told?" And, you know, "Do you think that comedy people are becoming more sensitive?" And, and I really loved your answer.

    5. JL

      Good. I'm glad.

    6. TN

      No, I really, I really loved your answer because, maybe because I agree with it. It would be funny if I like, "I loved it, and I think it's wrong."

    7. JL

      [laughs]

    8. TN

      But I... [laughs] No, I loved it because I agree with it.

    9. JL

      I loved it. You're full of bullshit.

    10. TN

      Yeah. I love the fact that you said there is nothing wrong with being sensitive-

    11. JL

      [laughs]

    12. TN

      ... to how comedy is or isn't affecting people.

    13. JL

      Right.

    14. TN

      Right? And I, I also agreed with, like, the sentiment that, like, it's not like you can't make the jokes.

    15. JL

      Exactly.

    16. TN

      People are making jokes.

    17. JL

      People are continuing to make jokes.

    18. TN

      Yes.

    19. JL

      It's continuing. Nobody's, we're not being hamstrung. And I'm in big favor of being, of evolving. [laughs] Of evolving. Think of what entertainment was 50 or 60 years ago.

    20. TN

      Yeah.

    21. JL

      I defy you to look at that. We have evolved from then, and I think we must continue to evolve. Yeah.

    22. TN

      Yeah, I completely agree.

    23. JL

      Yeah.

    24. TN

      I also don't think there's anything wrong in accepting that evolution does not necessarily mean that the past was bad. I think sometimes we're unfair to ourselves as people, and I go, especially as a comedian, I'm like, "Comedy's gonna evolve."

    25. JL

      Yeah.

    26. TN

      Society evolves. Like, there are things that society, you know, used to deem very acceptable that it doesn't anymore. Like, right now, we could be doing things in comedy or in conversations that people think are cool today, and then in 20 years they'll be like, "Oh." We might even go, "Huh. I can't believe I-

    27. JL

      "Oh"

    28. TN

      ... I spoke like that."

    29. JL

      "Oh, I can't believe-

    30. TN

      "Can't believe I said that."

  11. 37:29 – 40:53

    Driving Metaphor, Politics and Laughing Together

    1. TN

      How is, like, so here's what I think. I always think it's about acknowledging the possibility that you might share the world with somebody else, but then still moving forward with what's true to you.

    2. JL

      Yeah.

    3. TN

      You know? So it's like, I, I, I try and do comedy the way I drive, like when I'm on the road. I drive because I'm trying to get somewhere, and I, you know, I'll change lanes when I feel it's appropriate, but I acknowledge that there may be other people using the road.

    4. JL

      So I am amazed that you've brought this up, because I have often thought that if government and pe- and people in societies ... Let's see. I w- wanna articulate this just right. I wish very much that politics could work exactly as you say. Because, eh, to, to, in other words, you, you wanna get ahead of the car in front of you. Okay, that's fine. But you're not gonna do it so that you d- unless you're out of your mind, you're not gonna do it so you're gonna drive that other car off the road, right?

    5. TN

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    6. JL

      So there are parameters of respect that are built in. And, uh, self, uh, y- preservation.

    7. TN

      Yeah.

    8. JL

      We all wanna get somewhere quickly, I s-

    9. TN

      Yes

    10. JL

      ... assume.

    11. TN

      Yeah.

    12. JL

      But there is an understanding that we're all doing it at once, and that has to be understood. Anyway, I don't know. I sounds maybe silly, but that made me think.

    13. TN

      No, I, I, I, I, I love that. I think it's because, here's what I, I, I mean, it, I could be wrong. I think what's happened in the world is we are, in many ways we've become so insulated from each other that we no longer believe that other people are actually moving in a direction that is similar to us. There wa- there was something that we should never take for granted about everyone watching the same show, even if you didn't like it. But having a similar point of reference about what reality is and where you wanna go and how you see other people.

    14. JL

      Yes.

    15. TN

      And I think politics is the same now. We, we, we now exist in a space where people go, "It's me and it's you, and you're not trying to do the same thing. I don't even think your kids are real human beings. Are they kids?"

    16. JL

      It's me or you.

    17. TN

      Yes, exactly.

    18. JL

      Mm-hmm.

    19. TN

      Zero sum. And I feel like, going back to the beginning of this, like with comedy, I don't think comedy's a zero sum game. I think it is possible to laugh with and at people, with them knowing that it is, like they're doing it with you as well. Does that make sense?

    20. JL

      Totally. And, and to that point, so I had the great opportunity, honor, to meet Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan.

    21. TN

      Oh, wow.

    22. JL

      This was a number of years ago. This was back when Veep was on the air. And she told me that she and Justice Scalia, who was alive, obviously, at that time, they would get together weekly and talk about the show.

    23. TN

      No ways.

    24. JL

      Swear. And they would talk about the show and what they loved, and blah blah blah blah, and laugh about the episode. And that was a dream. That is a dream to me. That is a dream to me. I'm pretty almost 100% sure nothing about any decisions Scalia ever made is, lines up with how I think. However, the fact that he was able to enjoy it, and she was, and they were both able to laugh at it, that's-

    25. TN

      That is magic

    26. JL

      ... that's magic. It is.

    27. TN

      That is magic.

    28. JL

      It's magic. That's magic. Yeah. So there you go. Mm-hmm.

  12. 40:53 – 44:44

    What Now: A Musical, Marvel and the Brain Museum

    1. TN

      All right. Um, there's a question I ask everybody on the podcast.

    2. JL

      Okay.

    3. TN

      Um, uh, because of the name of the podcast, What Now? And everyone has a, has a different what now for me. After speaking to you, I feel like the what now question for me is more like, what now as you go into this stage of life, if we wanna call it that, because it, you know, it feels like now you're in a different movie vibe, but also like a different person vibe. Is there a what now for you? Where do we find you and, and what is the now, like that you're moving on to?

    4. JL

      Oh. Well, I feel like I'm just starting. So I feel like I'm just, like I've got a lot more to get done.

    5. TN

      In life?

    6. JL

      Yeah. Yeah, I do. I feel like I'm-

    7. TN

      Oh, boy

    8. JL

      ... I'm still going. Like, l- well, I am still going, but what I mean is, is that there's a lot more for, that I would like to be able to chew on.

    9. TN

      Oh.

    10. JL

      Sink my teeth into. Yeah.

    11. TN

      Do you know what it is? Or-

    12. JL

      No. But I just feel that way.

    13. TN

      That's a great way to be.

    14. JL

      I'd like to do a musical on film. Yeah, that would be really fun.

    15. TN

      I like this for you.

    16. JL

      Mm.

    17. TN

      I also ask you because I've noticed in a bunch of your interviews, people, you'll say something like this and then it happens. I don't know if you've noticed that about yourself.

    18. JL

      No, I haven't.

    19. TN

      Someone asked you if you'd ever do a Marvel movie, and then you were like, "Yeah, I'll do it, pew pew," and then you were in one Pew Pew.

    20. JL

      [laughs] Yeah. And I just, I just wrapped like a week ago.

    21. TN

      So this could be-

    22. JL

      Pew, pew pew, pew.

    23. TN

      [laughs]

    24. JL

      That's, that's the movie, guys. I just gave it away.

    25. TN

      Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. But, um, this has been fun.

    26. JL

      Really fun. I mean, it's really nice to just have a conversation and talk. Yeah.

    27. TN

      Well, that's what I've-

    28. JL

      I really appreciate it

    29. TN

      ... selfishly always wanted to do with you.

    30. JL

      Mm.

Episode duration: 44:44

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