Wesley Morris: How Critics at Large See the Stories We Miss

Trevor sits down with Pulitzer Prize-winning critic Wesley Morris for a wide-ranging conversation that uncovers the hidden stories in everyday culture. From Carlos Alcaraz’s accidental buzz cut becoming the real drama of the US Open (and why men rarely have to explain their appearance), to the deeper meaning behind by-gone baby names, looted ancient artifacts, and Trump’s complicated relationship with museums. They dive into why blockbuster movies have abandoned regular human stories, how Superman reboots reflect America’s shifting self-image, and why horror films and death-obsessed songs are dominating right now. Wesley breaks down the superpower of a “critic at large”: spotting trends everyone else misses and connecting them to what they really say about us. Thought-provoking, funny, and full of unexpected insights—this one will make you see the world a little differently. If you haven't already.... Subscribe to the channel here: http://bit.ly/SubscribeTrevorNoah Or follow the podcast on your other favorite platforms... SiriusXM - Apple Podcasts - https://bit.ly/WhatNowOnApplePodcasts Spotify - https://bit.ly/WhatNowOnSpotify 00:00:00 – Superman Movies Mirror America’s Mood Swings 00:00:32 – Trevor Roasts Wesley & Eugene’s “Old Man” Names 00:01:45 – Dead Names: Judith, Arnold, Ethel & Martha Ann 00:03:05 – Wesley Morris: The Superpower of a Critic at Large 00:04:36 – Names Are Dying — And Assimilation Is Killing Them 00:08:40 – Why Barack Didn’t Become the Next Big Baby Name 00:10:36 – Critic at Large vs Regular Critic: What’s the Difference? 00:12:33 – Would Wesley Write About Carlos Alcaraz’s Buzz Cut? 00:14:14 – US Open Fashion Chaos: From Wing Vents to Serena’s Outfits 00:15:11 – The Alcaraz Haircut: Accident or Rebellion? 00:18:15 – Carlos Had to Apologize for His Hair — Men Rarely Do 00:22:21 – When Women Cut Their Hair Short, It’s a Scandal 00:25:03 – The Hidden Burden: Appearance Pressure on Athletes 00:30:34 – How Wesley Decides What’s Worth Writing About 00:31:46 – Museum Etiquette Rant: Stop Cutting In Front of Paintings! 00:35:36 – Should Looted Art Go Back Home? The Big Debate 00:43:46 – Art Gains Meaning From Suffering & Displacement 00:46:44 – Should All Ancient Art Return to Egypt? 00:54:38 – Museums Dignify Civilizations — And Prove We Existed 01:01:33 – Trump’s Obsession With Museums & Controlling the Narrative 01:10:52 – Trump Is Shaped By Whoever Whispers In His Ear 01:27:08 – Horror Movies & “Die With a Smile”: Our Current Death Drive 01:28:20 – Superman Reboots Reflect America’s Self-Image 01:39:24 – Why We No Longer Get Human Stories Like Forrest Gump 02:04:17 – The Joy of Thinking Deeper About Culture 02:11:45 – Wesley’s Top Movies of the Year: Weapons, Sinners & More"

Trevor NoahhostWesley Morrisguest

Dec 25, 20252h 15mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

130 min read · 26,407 words

0:00 – 0:32
Superman Movies Mirror America’s Mood Swings
1. TNTrevor Noah
  [upbeat music] It's fascinating to look at when Superman movies come back and when they don't.
2. WMWesley Morris
  Oh, yes
3. TNTrevor Noah
  And when they do well-
4. WMWesley Morris
  Yes
5. TNTrevor Noah
  ... and when they don't.
6. WMWesley Morris
  That's a great point.
7. TNTrevor Noah
  And when-
8. WMWesley Morris
  It's a great point
9. TNTrevor Noah
  ... it's like-
10. WMWesley Morris
  Great point
11. TNTrevor Noah
  ... there's a moment when America's telling a story about itself being exceptional and fighting the Russians and fighting communism.
12. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah.
13. TNTrevor Noah
  Superman's the thing.
14. WMWesley Morris
  Mm-hmm.
15. TNTrevor Noah
  And then that story, like, fades away. Superman fades away. And then the Superman that becomes popular and comes out is, like, a gritty, non-Superman-y Superman.
16. WMWesley Morris
  Mm-hmm. That's the Trump, that's the first Trump Superman, yeah.
17. TNTrevor Noah
  That's like the-
18. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah
19. TNTrevor Noah
  ... and then now the n-
0:32 – 1:45
Trevor Roasts Wesley & Eugene’s “Old Man” Names
1. TNTrevor Noah
  now the, the American Superman sort of thing is, like, back, and the parents are even more folksy and the... You know what I mean? It's like a... It's, it's interesting-
2. WMWesley Morris
  Mm
3. TNTrevor Noah
  ... to think about, like, what we're experiencing in our world, and then the question, then the question becomes, is the art imitating life or is life imitating art? [upbeat music] This is What Now? With Trevor Noah. This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Eat well for less. You guys both have, like, old-man names.
4. WMWesley Morris
  Um, you know. [laughs] Terrible.
5. TNTrevor Noah
  No, but it's true, though.
6. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah, like you never-
7. TNTrevor Noah
  Wesley, Wesley's a very, like, not-now name.
8. WMWesley Morris
  Wes is a young person.
9. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah, yeah, Wes.
10. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah, is that right?
11. TNTrevor Noah
  Wes. But Wesley-
12. WMWesley Morris
  I would like to see the birth certificates, 'cause I'm sure they're not even bothering with the leaves.
13. TNTrevor Noah
  No, but think about it. Wesley is a, is, like, an older name in that way.
14. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah.
15. TNTrevor Noah
  And then Eugene is also a name.
16. WMWesley Morris
  I prefer mature, not older. [laughs]
17. TNTrevor Noah
  I mean, you can take it the way you want. I meant it not as a slur-
18. WMWesley Morris
  Oh
19. TNTrevor Noah
  ... or a slight, 'cause I, I don't see age.
1:45 – 3:05
Dead Names: Judith, Arnold, Ethel & Martha Ann
1. WMWesley Morris
  I appreciate that. What do you see? I, I, uh...
2. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah. [laughs]
3. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs] That went well. That did. [laughs] Yeah, no, I, I was just talking about women's names that you're just never gonna get again.
4. TNTrevor Noah
  Like?
5. WMWesley Morris
  Ruth.
6. TNTrevor Noah
  Ethel?
7. WMWesley Morris
  Ruth, Ethel.
8. TNTrevor Noah
  Margaret.
9. WMWesley Morris
  M- my grandmother's name was Martha.
10. TNTrevor Noah
  Oh, I like Martha.
11. WMWesley Morris
  Um, that's kinda not dead yet. Um, there's a, there was a Hazel.
12. TNTrevor Noah
  But Martha always felt incomplete.
13. WMWesley Morris
  Why? My mother... Martha Ann.
14. TNTrevor Noah
  You see?
15. WMWesley Morris
  Martha Ann.
16. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
17. WMWesley Morris
  That was her-
18. TNTrevor Noah
  Martha's feeling. Yeah
19. WMWesley Morris
  ... yeah, Martha Ann.
20. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
21. WMWesley Morris
  Everybody called... People called her Martha, but only if they didn't know there was an Ann. If you knew it was Martha Ann-
22. TNTrevor Noah
  Then it was Martha Ann
23. WMWesley Morris
  ... it was Martha Ann, yeah.
24. TNTrevor Noah
  Where's your mom from?
25. WMWesley Morris
  Uh, Philadelphia.
26. TNTrevor Noah
  Okay.
27. WMWesley Morris
  Judith, there's another one.
28. TNTrevor Noah
  That's, yeah.
29. WMWesley Morris
  My mother's name is Judith. My father's name is Arnold.
30. TNTrevor Noah
  Arnold can come back.
3:05 – 4:36
Wesley Morris: The Superpower of a Critic at Large
1. TNTrevor Noah
  into a blind environment and not know what I have been... But for Negroes, I will do it.
2. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
3. TNTrevor Noah
  For two Negroes, I will definitely-
4. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
5. TNTrevor Noah
  I will do it.
6. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
7. TNTrevor Noah
  So, so let me explain. Right? The reason I say you're the perfect person is because of what I would like this episode to be. I was trying to explain to a friend the other day what a critic at large is basically doing.
8. WMWesley Morris
  No. [laughs]
9. TNTrevor Noah
  See?
10. WMWesley Morris
  Okay. I, I am that friend. Go ahead.
11. TNTrevor Noah
  No. No, no, no, no, no. But I was... Oh yeah, it was you.
12. WMWesley Morris
  Mm-hmm.
13. TNTrevor Noah
  So-
14. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
15. TNTrevor Noah
  For a second I was like, "Are you taking the..." Then I was like, "Oh yeah, it was-
16. WMWesley Morris
  All Negroes look alike to him
17. TNTrevor Noah
  ... it was, it was you.
18. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs] Because he, he was like-
19. TNTrevor Noah
  We're all one
20. WMWesley Morris
  ... "Must have been another Negro."
21. TNTrevor Noah
  We're all-
22. WMWesley Morris
  It was we are all one.
23. TNTrevor Noah
  It was we are all one.
24. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
25. TNTrevor Noah
  So-
26. WMWesley Morris
  What office are you running for? [laughs] Okay. Trevor Buttigieg.
27. TNTrevor Noah
  So-
28. WMWesley Morris
  Not even, Pete wouldn't even try that.
29. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah, Pete wouldn't do that.
30. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah.
4:36 – 8:40
Names Are Dying — And Assimilation Is Killing Them
1. WMWesley Morris
  Ethel. Those are my, my parents' names. Ethel's an aunt.
2. TNTrevor Noah
  Uh, yeah.
3. WMWesley Morris
  I'm so good.
4. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah. But I'm saying-
5. WMWesley Morris
  I think we're holding a seance here.
6. TNTrevor Noah
  Oh.
7. WMWesley Morris
  Did she, did she also- [laughs] Did she like wearing purple? Ethel? Yeah. 100 perc- Ethel was basically purple. I see her now. But that's, that's alcohol.
8. TNTrevor Noah
  [laughs]
9. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs] I just, just...
10. TNTrevor Noah
  So this is what I mean. Names are, like, a perfect place to start this conversation in-
11. WMWesley Morris
  Mm
12. TNTrevor Noah
  ... because there's a generation that'll have a name.
13. WMWesley Morris
  Mm.
14. TNTrevor Noah
  Right?
15. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah.
16. TNTrevor Noah
  So now we go, "Oh, there's no more Judiths, there's no more Ediths, there's no more this, there's no more that, there's no..." Then I go, yes, but all it takes is one moment, one elected official-
17. WMWesley Morris
  Mm
18. TNTrevor Noah
  ... one famous athlete-
19. WMWesley Morris
  Mm-hmm
20. TNTrevor Noah
  ... one-
21. WMWesley Morris
  To bring it back
22. TNTrevor Noah
  ... movie star. Like, a name, a character, something, and all of a sudden it comes back.
23. WMWesley Morris
  Mm.
24. TNTrevor Noah
  Right?
25. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah. I like this. This is, I, this is definitely persuasive. There's one problem.
26. TNTrevor Noah
  Let's go.
27. WMWesley Morris
  Well, I think that the cycle has basically begun to eat itself, right?
28. TNTrevor Noah
  Oh.
29. WMWesley Morris
  So, like, it's a... It used to just be maybe a line, but now it's a circle. So, you know-
30. TNTrevor Noah
  Explain the line.
8:40 – 10:36
Why Barack Didn’t Become the Next Big Baby Name
1. WMWesley Morris
  new name.
2. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
3. WMWesley Morris
  Um, but in the meantime, in order for the name thing to change, like, here's a, here's a test. How many Baracks do you know?
4. TNTrevor Noah
  Only one.
5. SPSpeaker
  Only one.
6. WMWesley Morris
  Right. Exactly. I think there's something about-
7. TNTrevor Noah
  That's interesting
8. WMWesley Morris
  ... I also was, like, naming your kid Jesus, in a way.
9. SPSpeaker
  Jesus.
10. WMWesley Morris
  Right?
11. TNTrevor Noah
  It, it is a bit like, it's very unique.
12. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah, ex-
13. SPSpeaker
  It's-
14. WMWesley Morris
  We had the same thought.
15. SPSpeaker
  Yes.
16. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah. Um-
17. SPSpeaker
  Think we did?
18. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah, you just-
19. SPSpeaker
  What else we have?
20. WMWesley Morris
  ... you said Jesus.
21. SPSpeaker
  What else? What else do you have? I have, um, $5,000. What do you have?
22. TNTrevor Noah
  Well, you don't have $5,000.
23. SPSpeaker
  We don't have the same thoughts anymore then.
24. TNTrevor Noah
  Definitely. Definitely. Do you-
25. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
26. TNTrevor Noah
  Was that a thought to get $5,000 or to, like-
27. SPSpeaker
  It was exotic
28. TNTrevor Noah
  ... have in your possession-
29. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
30. TNTrevor Noah
  ... $5,000?
10:36 – 12:33
Critic at Large vs Regular Critic: What’s the Difference?
1. WMWesley Morris
  This episode?
2. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah, this episode.
3. WMWesley Morris
  Okay.
4. TNTrevor Noah
  You help us to understand or help us learn how to process the world through the lens of a critic at large.
5. WMWesley Morris
  Hmm.
6. TNTrevor Noah
  Because I'll try, I'll try and break down what you do, and you'll, you'll correct me on the other side of it where- wherever I go a, a, like, astray. When I think of what a critic at large does, the first thing I do is I have to separate it from a critic generally.
7. WMWesley Morris
  Sure.
8. TNTrevor Noah
  So a critic is somebody who is criticizing or, um, commenting on the elements of any particular thing, food, movie, et cetera, et cetera, but that's it. A critic at large is somebody who is looking at society, all of the elements that are within that society-
9. WMWesley Morris
  Hmm
10. TNTrevor Noah
  ... and then tries to notice how the shifts in that society are telling us a story that the society itself doesn't notice.
11. WMWesley Morris
  Hmm.
12. TNTrevor Noah
  You know what I mean? And, and, and so, like, when I was, when I was thinking of examples, actually, I'll, I'll play this out with you and I'll see if I'm, if I, if I have it right here.
13. WMWesley Morris
  Okay.
14. TNTrevor Noah
  Would you write about the US Open just, uh, uh, coming back to New York for another year?
15. WMWesley Morris
  No.
16. TNTrevor Noah
  Okay.
17. WMWesley Morris
  No.
18. TNTrevor Noah
  Would you write about, um, uh, Tsarna, Jannik Sinner beating, um, uh, just, like, a random person in one of, like, the early rounds?
19. WMWesley Morris
  Okay. Uh, perhaps.
20. TNTrevor Noah
  Okay, but it's not, that's not a yes.
21. WMWesley Morris
  I mean, depends on who, who won, won, he played Denis Shapovalov-
22. TNTrevor Noah
  Uh-huh
23. WMWesley Morris
  ... in, like, the fourth round or maybe the f- fourth round, I wanna say. Uh, that was a good match. He took a set off him, maybe the third round. Um, but no, that, what, I mean, I, I would, that would be a data point.
24. TNTrevor Noah
  Okay.
25. WMWesley Morris
  I would make a mental note-
26. TNTrevor Noah
  Okay, okay
27. WMWesley Morris
  ... remembering Denis Shapovalov got a set off Jannik Sinner.
28. TNTrevor Noah
  Okay. Would you write about people's reaction to Carlos Alcaraz cutting his hair off?
12:33 – 14:14
Would Wesley Write About Carlos Alcaraz’s Buzz Cut?
1. WMWesley Morris
  Yes, 100%.
2. SPSpeaker
  That's the Ethel Lodge punt.
3. WMWesley Morris
  No-brainer.
4. TNTrevor Noah
  Do you see what, you remember what I told you? So now I would love for you to explain why. 'Cause you love tennis.
5. WMWesley Morris
  Yes.
6. TNTrevor Noah
  You are absorb, you are observing-
7. WMWesley Morris
  Mm
8. TNTrevor Noah
  ... a US Open as it's playing out.
9. WMWesley Morris
  Yes.
10. TNTrevor Noah
  Why is it that Carlos Alcaraz cutting all of his hair off-
11. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
12. TNTrevor Noah
  ... and the reactions to it is what you would write about at the tennis and not the tennis itself?
13. WMWesley Morris
  Well, it's connected to the tennis.
14. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah, of course it is.
15. WMWesley Morris
  Right? Um, it's that the US Open is the place where people do the weirdest stuff to themselves. Um, I mean, just, like, a recent-ish history of weird clothes in here at the US Open, there was a player named Dominic Hrabaty, H-R-A-B-T-Y-
16. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm-hmm
17. WMWesley Morris
  ... who showed up at the Open, I'm pretty sure it was the Open, and he had, his shirt had two vents in the back. They were, like, cut out of the shirt-
18. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm-hmm
19. WMWesley Morris
  ... like two holes, like, where wings might maybe have once been.
20. TNTrevor Noah
  [laughs] Like angel wings.
21. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah.
22. SPSpeaker
  Mm-hmm.
23. WMWesley Morris
  And he played, I mean, I don't know, he maybe lasted to the third round. He was one of those, Hrabaty was one of those players, like, he could give you trouble every once in a while-
24. TNTrevor Noah
  Right
25. WMWesley Morris
  ... and he would l- he would make it to the third round of just about every tournament. Um, but he wore that outfit, and it's like, what, what's the story here? And, you know, he, it just got him a lot of attention. It was a weird thing to wear, and it made no aerodynamic sense. He claimed, I think the claim was that it did, it helped his tennis.
14:14 – 15:11
US Open Fashion Chaos: From Wing Vents to Serena’s Outfits
1. TNTrevor Noah
  Okay.
2. WMWesley Morris
  It helped, something about the airflow on his back, and it just felt really good to hit a backhand. Um, Serena, every great terrible thing she ever wore pretty much happened at the US Open.
3. SPSpeaker
  Wow.
4. WMWesley Morris
  So into this history of, like, things people wear at the US Open comes Carlos Alcaraz, who was wearing in his sort of purple getup, a th- you know, purple, magenta, whatever getup. You know, standard pretty good thing to wear at the Open. But he shows up with a haircut they, it looks like he got 30 seconds before he got on court.
5. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
6. WMWesley Morris
  You could still see nicks.
7. TNTrevor Noah
  There was, like, yeah, it was a fresh, fresh, fresh, fresh, fresh buzz, fresh cut.
8. SPSpeaker
  So what I thought the final was not-
9. TNTrevor Noah
  No, no, no, no, no, no
10. SPSpeaker
  ... was actually the final result.
11. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
12. WMWesley Morris
  No. Well, the final, it's, like, funny story about the final is we learned how fast hair can grow.
13. TNTrevor Noah
  [laughs]
14. WMWesley Morris
  Because by the end of the tournament, he looked like himself again.
15. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah, he did.
16. SPSpeaker
  So when was the haircut in
15:11 – 18:15
The Alcaraz Haircut: Accident or Rebellion?
1. SPSpeaker
  relation to the, the final?
2. WMWesley Morris
  The claim was that he wanted his brother to touch up-
3. TNTrevor Noah
  Yes
4. WMWesley Morris
  ... his haircut maybe that day, and, you know, made a mistake. And this is why you don't... I mean, there, this is-
5. SPSpeaker
  You don't buy it.
6. WMWesley Morris
  Oh, I believe it. 100% I believe it.
7. SPSpeaker
  Okay.
8. WMWesley Morris
  Well, wait. Oh, my God.
9. SPSpeaker
  Oh.
10. WMWesley Morris
  Do I not believe it?
11. SPSpeaker
  You know what?
12. WMWesley Morris
  I didn't even give it a second thought.
13. TNTrevor Noah
  I believed it.
14. WMWesley Morris
  I believed it.
15. TNTrevor Noah
  Eugene doesn't believe it at all.
16. SPSpeaker
  I, I, I don't buy it. There's something also I don't buy at the US Open that I'll talk to you about.
17. TNTrevor Noah
  Wait, wait, wait. So you don't buy it at all?
18. SPSpeaker
  I don't buy it at all.
19. WMWesley Morris
  What do you think happened?
20. SPSpeaker
  Here's a critic at large.
21. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
22. TNTrevor Noah
  No, no, but tell me why you don't buy it.
23. SPSpeaker
  I'm not a detective. Here's a critic at large.
24. TNTrevor Noah
  No, but tell me why you don't buy it.
25. SPSpeaker
  Having a conversation about it, about it.
26. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah.
27. SPSpeaker
  Because I feel like there's certain sports or certain arts where you need to do something crazy to stand out. And I think cutting your hair-
28. WMWesley Morris
  Oh, interesting
29. SPSpeaker
  ... is one of those.
30. WMWesley Morris
  But not that haircut
18:15 – 22:21
Carlos Had to Apologize for His Hair — Men Rarely Do
1. WMWesley Morris
  don't know.
2. TNTrevor Noah
  But what was interesting to me was that he addressed it and pseudo apologized, and that's, that's what made me think of you. I went-
3. WMWesley Morris
  We don't expect this of you, Carlos
4. TNTrevor Noah
  [laughs] Yeah, but, but like-
5. WMWesley Morris
  You've got the best hair in men, in men's tennis. Why would you do this?
6. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm-hmm.
7. WMWesley Morris
  To us?
8. TNTrevor Noah
  [laughs]
9. WMWesley Morris
  That's the apology.
10. TNTrevor Noah
  For exactly that reason.
11. WMWesley Morris
  He knows.
12. TNTrevor Noah
  For exactly-
13. WMWesley Morris
  See.
14. TNTrevor Noah
  This, now you see this is what I mean.
15. WMWesley Morris
  Mm-hmm. [laughs]
16. TNTrevor Noah
  This is what your ... No, but this is what your brain does, though.
17. WMWesley Morris
  Mm-hmm. But what were you thinking when you saw it?
18. TNTrevor Noah
  I, I won't lie, I wasn't thinking too deeply about it.
19. WMWesley Morris
  Okay.
20. TNTrevor Noah
  Because I, uh, a few months ago, David Beckham was cutting his own hair. He cuts his own hair.
21. WMWesley Morris
  Okay.
22. TNTrevor Noah
  And then he was cutting his own hair, and then he messed up. And then like-
23. SPSpeaker
  Guys fall for these scams all the time.
24. TNTrevor Noah
  You calm down.
25. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
26. SPSpeaker
  [laughs]
27. TNTrevor Noah
  You just calm down. And Da-
28. WMWesley Morris
  Wait, what were the scams?
29. TNTrevor Noah
  And David Beckham just like, he was like, bzz, and he, he, like, just messed up a little bit.
30. SPSpeaker
  Oh, I see.
22:21 – 25:03
When Women Cut Their Hair Short, It’s a Scandal
1. WMWesley Morris
  was no hair.
2. TNTrevor Noah
  Right.
3. SPSpeaker
  Um, Halle Berry go through such as well? There was a point where Halle Berry cut her hair off, right?
4. TNTrevor Noah
  When she cut it short.
5. WMWesley Morris
  Right. She, it was short.
6. TNTrevor Noah
  Short, okay.
7. WMWesley Morris
  And people were like, "Eek." Right. But she's still Halle Berry.
8. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
9. WMWesley Morris
  Like, it doesn't matter-
10. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah
11. WMWesley Morris
  ... what Halle Berry does to her hair.
12. TNTrevor Noah
  Sure.
13. WMWesley Morris
  Like, it's just, doesn't matter. Um, Sigourney Weaver in that fourth Aliens movie, right? Like, what is Ripley ... What is, what is going ... Or the third Aliens movie, I wanna say.
14. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
15. WMWesley Morris
  Is it the third one or the fourth one? I think the Rin- the Winona Ryder one.
16. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
17. WMWesley Morris
  Um, when women go short-
18. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm-hmm
19. WMWesley Morris
  ... that way, it's just a scandalous thing.
20. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm.
21. WMWesley Morris
  And it's usually received as some attempt to, like, get closer to masculinity. But with Carlos Alcaraz, 'cause he's already so boyish, it just, it did, it neither toughened him up. It made him seem even younger somehow.
22. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm-hmm.
23. WMWesley Morris
  Um, like, truly, like, he had just, like, like, climbed out of the caul of, of, you know, that, that, that protective coating that, that animals and people-
24. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah, like [imitates slithering]
25. WMWesley Morris
  ... are born. Yeah. Ex- like an Alien movie, actually.
26. TNTrevor Noah
  [laughs]
27. WMWesley Morris
  Like, and I think that, like, there was ... It just was too much for people to accept that this had happened, and you could hear the buzzing when he took the first-
28. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah
29. WMWesley Morris
  ... when he took the court that first match.
30. TNTrevor Noah
  Mission accomplished.
25:03 – 30:34
The Hidden Burden: Appearance Pressure on Athletes
1. TNTrevor Noah
  this is critic at large now.
2. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah. This is, like, a thing women always... I mean, in addition to all the other shit that women have to take on a tennis court with them, right? Like, you know, I hope my body cooperates.
3. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
4. WMWesley Morris
  I hope I don't hear somebody say some stupid sexist shit in the third row, which happens not, I mean, I don't wanna say not infrequently, but I've heard it. Like-
5. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm
6. WMWesley Morris
  ... somebody saying something to Sabalenka about something.
7. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm.
8. WMWesley Morris
  Amélie Mauresmo, they called her a man. Would go to these tennis tournaments and they would just call her a man. That's the thing she had to hear-
9. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm
10. WMWesley Morris
  ... I mean, maybe her whole career. Serena Williams, Venus Williams.
11. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm-hmm.
12. WMWesley Morris
  The things that they, I mean, Sloane Stephens. Uh, just, like, the things you have to put up with just because they're in earshot. Um, now here's a man having to, like, explain his physical appearance in a way that I don't recall a male tennis player, male athlete really having to do. Unless you're Djok- Unless you're, unless you're Djokovic and, or, or, or Luka, Luka Dončić.
13. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14. WMWesley Morris
  Who it's the opposite problem. It's like he was being dogged for years for being overweight-
15. TNTrevor Noah
  And then he lost a ton of it
16. WMWesley Morris
  ... and out of shape. Lost the weight and now everybody's like, "Well, I mean, I don't know how this is gonna go. He lost the weight."
17. TNTrevor Noah
  [laughs]
18. WMWesley Morris
  This guy can't win.
19. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm.
20. WMWesley Morris
  Like, got traded, got into the best shape of his life because he needed to. I mean, I don't, I don't know what Luka needed, but, like, it can't hurt that he's in better shape. [laughs]
21. TNTrevor Noah
  Oh, no, no.
22. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah. Right?
23. TNTrevor Noah
  I mean, that's what, that's what LeBron said, right?
24. WMWesley Morris
  Right.
25. TNTrevor Noah
  He said he improved his longevity by years by dropping, I don't know the exact number, but it was, it was a pretty substantial amount. I think, I stand to be corrected, maybe 20 pounds.
26. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah.
27. TNTrevor Noah
  Maybe more.
28. WMWesley Morris
  I mean, it's-
29. TNTrevor Noah
  He was just like, it just, it just helped him-
30. WMWesley Morris
  Hmm
30:34 – 31:46
How Wesley Decides What’s Worth Writing About
1. WMWesley Morris
  Well, you know, I'm-
2. SPSpeaker
  [laughs]
3. WMWesley Morris
  Well, it's funny 'cause I'm making this podcast now.
4. SPSpeaker
  Yeah.
5. WMWesley Morris
  It's called Cannonball, and a lot of my time is being spent, like, figuring out, you know, how much time to spend making our show-
6. SPSpeaker
  Okay
7. WMWesley Morris
  ... and how much time to spend writing these pieces. Um, and it's, I'm now at a place where, like, I'm like, "Oh, I think I've st- I've struck a balance where writing, I can write pretty much as often as I used to and still make this show."
8. SPSpeaker
  Mm.
9. WMWesley Morris
  Um, so the, the answer to your question, the last thing I think was published that was a, that was a piece that had nothing to do with the show was about how to look at art in museums. Like, like, not-
10. SPSpeaker
  How to look at art in museums
11. WMWesley Morris
  ... how to, let's be, I'm gonna be extra clear, how one should position oneself to not be cut off by some other art looker, right?
12. SPSpeaker
  Mm.
13. WMWesley Morris
  Like, how does one stand? How should one stand? How far away from a painting do I need to stand to keep your ass from cutting in front of me while I'm looking at it?
14. SPSpeaker
  And to make sure I still enjoy the full-
15. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah
16. SPSpeaker
  ... experience of w- of looking at the art.
17. WMWesley Morris
  I'm having a moment with this piece of art.
18. SPSpeaker
  Wes.
19. WMWesley Morris
  What?
20. SPSpeaker
  Wes!
21. WMWesley Morris
  Like, is it two feet? Is it-
22. SPSpeaker
  Yeah
23. WMWesley Morris
  ... is it six inches? You know,
31:46 – 35:36
Museum Etiquette Rant: Stop Cutting In Front of Paintings!
1. WMWesley Morris
  I mean-
2. SPSpeaker
  Oh, w- now you see that-
3. WMWesley Morris
  Yes
4. SPSpeaker
  ... that's such a left field turn for me.
5. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
6. SPSpeaker
  Why did you think that was significant? Art seems like such a, like, it's such a niche world. It's such a, you know, highfalutin world. Is w- why did that-
7. WMWesley Morris
  Mm.
8. SPSpeaker
  What were you, what did you get to in that piece-
9. WMWesley Morris
  Uh
10. SPSpeaker
  ... that wouldn't be obvious when I read the headline?
11. WMWesley Morris
  I think it's not the deepest thing I've ever written.
12. SPSpeaker
  No, no, no.
13. WMWesley Morris
  But-
14. SPSpeaker
  But still, what, what, what did you-
15. WMWesley Morris
  Well, I think it's just that everybody makes this mistake, and nobody really thinks that it's a problem. It's the, it's the, it's the kind of etiquette, you know, I am probably 15% Larry David, you know?
16. SPSpeaker
  Only [laughs]
17. WMWesley Morris
  Like, well, no, no, really, because the 85% is why I'm, I'm in this job and not, you know-
18. SPSpeaker
  [laughs]
19. WMWesley Morris
  ... doing Curb Your Enthusiasm.
20. SPSpeaker
  [laughs]
21. WMWesley Morris
  But I think the degree to which, you know, there's a Larry David in a lot of us.
22. SPSpeaker
  Yeah.
23. WMWesley Morris
  Um, it meets up in these areas in which decisions are made on our behalf-
24. SPSpeaker
  Mm
25. WMWesley Morris
  ... allegedly to make them easier, but make them worse.
26. SPSpeaker
  Yeah.
27. WMWesley Morris
  I would identify packaging as this, you know? Like-
28. SPSpeaker
  Yeah
29. WMWesley Morris
  ... I mean, famously, there's a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode where, like-
30. SPSpeaker
  Yeah, the episode with the, where he buys the, the scissors that open the package.
35:36 – 43:46
Should Looted Art Go Back Home? The Big Debate
1. WMWesley Morris
  Oh, sent back to-
2. SPSpeaker
  Yes
3. WMWesley Morris
  ... the Prado. The Prado took it back.
4. SPSpeaker
  Yeah.
5. WMWesley Morris
  Okay.
6. SPSpeaker
  Yeah, in 2022.
7. WMWesley Morris
  All right. The Prado-
8. SPSpeaker
  It was unceremoniously removed.
9. WMWesley Morris
  The Prado, it comes home to the Prado. I mean, it really should be in northern Spain with the Basque people, honestly. That's where it belongs. It should not even be in Madrid. But we'll take it, 'cause the Prado's one of the great museums. More people will probably go to Madrid than-
10. SPSpeaker
  Mm
11. WMWesley Morris
  ... go to wherever they would put it. I mean, maybe at the Bil- at the Guggenheim Bilbao. Um-
12. SPSpeaker
  Do you think all art should be back where it's from?
13. WMWesley Morris
  No. That's a great question. That's deep.
14. SPSpeaker
  Mm.
15. WMWesley Morris
  Trevor, what do you think?
16. SPSpeaker
  Oh, you can't throw it back to me.
17. WMWesley Morris
  All right. I'll think. I'm, I'll think.
18. SPSpeaker
  You said no.
19. WMWesley Morris
  All right.
20. SPSpeaker
  I, I feel like it's not art if it's with its people. I feel like it's art when it's not home.
21. WMWesley Morris
  Oh. Mm.
22. SPSpeaker
  When people get to view-
23. WMWesley Morris
  Mm
24. SPSpeaker
  ... something that doesn't belong there-
25. WMWesley Morris
  Mm-hmm
26. SPSpeaker
  ... and they get to stare at it longer. It happens when people are people-watching.
27. WMWesley Morris
  I love that.
28. SPSpeaker
  Someone looks unfamiliar, they stay longer.
29. WMWesley Morris
  I love that.
30. SPSpeaker
  So it becomes, it has significance when it's not at home.
43:46 – 46:44
Art Gains Meaning From Suffering & Displacement
1. SPSpeaker
  I think art is sometimes meaningless without it being attached to some suffering of some sort.
2. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm.
3. WMWesley Morris
  Wow.
4. SPSpeaker
  Pieces being stolen, an artist that cut off his ear because he was frustrated.
5. TNTrevor Noah
  [laughs] Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong. The, the Mona Lisa's the perfect example.
6. SPSpeaker
  Yes, the Mona Lisa.
7. WMWesley Morris
  Right, right.
8. SPSpeaker
  Forever and ever going around.
9. TNTrevor Noah
  It was, it was nothing, really.
10. SPSpeaker
  Yes.
11. TNTrevor Noah
  Not nothing. Let's, you know, let's calm down, Trevor.
12. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
13. SPSpeaker
  [laughs]
14. TNTrevor Noah
  It wasn't nothing.
15. WMWesley Morris
  This is like me, I went to a party once and was like, "The Constitution's a stupid document."
16. SPSpeaker
  Brrt, brrt, brrt, brrt.
17. TNTrevor Noah
  [laughs]
18. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs] I had, like, 17 gay men looking at me like. [laughs]
19. SPSpeaker
  [laughs]
20. WMWesley Morris
  I'm just saying, I think that, like-
21. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah, no, that's fine
22. WMWesley Morris
  ... the following a mem- anyways.
23. TNTrevor Noah
  I'm not saying it, I'm not saying it's... But I do find it interesting too, exactly what you just said.
24. WMWesley Morris
  Mm.
25. TNTrevor Noah
  That the Mona Lisa owes a lot of its fame to the fact that it was stolen-
26. WMWesley Morris
  Mm-hmm
27. TNTrevor Noah
  ... and that begins its journey of... Before that, there was no lion.
28. WMWesley Morris
  Mm.
29. TNTrevor Noah
  There was no famous anything. The, it was just one of the paintings. But when the painting got stolen, the lore of the painting-
30. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah
46:44 – 54:38
Should All Ancient Art Return to Egypt?
1. TNTrevor Noah
  No, but here's, here's the question.
2. WMWesley Morris
  But-
3. TNTrevor Noah
  Actually, you know what, you know what I wonder? This is, I, I like that you both asked the question through the lens of people, but I didn't hear either of you ask the question through the lens of time, and I think that's actually the more complicated one to answer.
4. WMWesley Morris
  Right.
5. TNTrevor Noah
  Is, like, what I mean by this is if your people, your family, your city, your country, your whatever you wanna use, have agreed or done something in a different time to you, whose time gets to supersede the other person's time? So this is what I mean.
6. WMWesley Morris
  Mm.
7. TNTrevor Noah
  There was a time when the Egyptian government welcomed, um, archeologists from England-
8. SPSpeaker
  Which is archeology, yeah
9. TNTrevor Noah
  ... who were funded by some rich person who just wanted to have-
10. SPSpeaker
  Right, right
11. TNTrevor Noah
  ... like, stuff nobody else had.
12. SPSpeaker
  Yeah.
13. TNTrevor Noah
  They paid for all of these-
14. SPSpeaker
  Expeditions
15. TNTrevor Noah
  ... expeditions. They paid for the, like, the... They were the ones who were like, "Yeah, go and do this because we get to benefit from what you're doing in some way." But that's a time. And then you find, like, today's government, not just of Egypt, of any country, might go, "No, we want our, we want our stuff." But you were given it by another time, and that's where I think it actually becomes more complicated.
16. WMWesley Morris
  Yes, 100%. Because, again, like, who, who adjudicates? Who votes?
17. TNTrevor Noah
  Yes.
18. WMWesley Morris
  Like, what... Uh, you know, I think with respect to time, I think you learn from it, right?
19. SPSpeaker
  Yeah.
20. WMWesley Morris
  You just [laughs] give the looted stuff back to the people, the descendants of the people from whom it was stolen. But I, I think maybe we're talking about a statute of limitations.
21. SPSpeaker
  Yeah.
22. WMWesley Morris
  Like, there's a statute of limitations and anything, let's just, let's just, I don't... There could actually be one, and I don't know, but I've never heard of, of, of these collections spoken of in this way. But, like, let's just say that the statute of limitations is, like, a century.
23. SPSpeaker
  Mm.
24. WMWesley Morris
  Right?
25. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
26. WMWesley Morris
  There's, like, beyond a certain point in n- 1900, with exceptions for, for looting-
27. SPSpeaker
  Mm-hmm
28. WMWesley Morris
  ... um, and/or theft, right? Like, just outright theft, but that's sort of more of a, that is a sort of interpersonal, um- ... legal question, whereas we're talking about kind of international law at some point too-
29. SPSpeaker
  Yeah, yeah, I'm talking more like a, a thing-
30. WMWesley Morris
  Right
54:38 – 1:01:33
Museums Dignify Civilizations — And Prove We Existed
1. SPSpeaker
  anywhere, 'cause we got more What Now? after this. Whole Foods Market makes holiday hosting simple with delicious prepared dishes, must-have ingredients, and gifts that are just as thoughtful as the food. And look, I'll be honest with you
2. TNTrevor Noah
  Every holiday season, I tell myself, "This year, Trevor, this year, you're gonna cook something." And every year I absolutely do not. Because the holidays sneak up on you. One minute you're still finishing the Halloween candy, and the next, someone's asking you, "So are you gonna bring a signature dish?" Signature? Guys, I don't even sign my emails. So I've developed a system, a Trevor holiday system. I go to Whole Foods Markets, I buy everything, and then I behave like I made it myself. I walk in with confidence. That's the key. Chest out. Confidence and a nice bowl. You see, if you put something in a bowl, people assume you cooked it. It's science. And Whole Foods makes it too easy. The heat and eat dishes, ooh, guys, creamy mashed potatoes, green beans, stuffing, all the classics. All you have to do is warm it up, transfer it into your own dish, and suddenly you're getting compliments like, "Wow, Trevor, you really brought this this year?" Yes, I did bring it. And that's technically true. And the desserts, wow, guys, let me tell you something. The holiday rum cake, oh. [laughs] Oh my goodness, the tres leches. Those desserts look like they require childhood trauma, a French grandmother, and 12 hours of your life. Nope, I bought it all at Whole Foods, carried it in, put it on the table, and I let the lies flow. Someone said, "Trevor, this is incredible. What's your recipe?" And I said, " [laughs] You know a chef never tells," because in this case the chef doesn't know, because the real chef was Whole Foods. And if you're responsible for the main course, I mean, they've got spiral cut ham, bone-in rib roast, the heavy hitters. One year I showed up with king crab legs. People were silent. They were stunned. They weren't really impressed. They were confused, because nobody expects king crab at Thanksgiving. But it tasted good, so they got over it. And to round everything out, I grab 365 by Whole Foods Market staples. Green beans, stuffing, dinner rolls, the fundamentals. The 365 brand is basically how I fill the table without filling my stress levels. And here's the part people don't think about, the gifts. Whole Foods Market has cookie gift boxes, beauty gift sets, candles, flowers. I even built a cheese board as a present. Yeah. Not the board, the cheese on top of it. It's one of those gifts that looks thoughtful, but it's really just cheese that's put in the shape of something. People love it. So yeah, my holiday hack is really simple. Whole Foods Market does the work, I take the credit. Everybody wins. And honestly, that's what the holidays are about. Good food, happy people, and lies told with love. Shop for everything you need at Whole Foods Markets, your holiday headquarters. [upbeat music] It makes me think of the idea that maybe the mistake we make sometimes in society is we search for a concrete answer that'll, that'll exist for all time.
3. WMWesley Morris
  Mm.
4. TNTrevor Noah
  But maybe the answers-
5. WMWesley Morris
  Mm
6. TNTrevor Noah
  ... are always shifting.
7. WMWesley Morris
  Mm.
8. TNTrevor Noah
  And if we can-
9. WMWesley Morris
  Oh, yeah
10. TNTrevor Noah
  ... if we can get comfortable with that-
11. WMWesley Morris
  Yes, yes, yes, yes
12. TNTrevor Noah
  ... if we can get comfortable with that, maybe then we'll be better at answering the questions, because we understand that the question is not permanent.
13. WMWesley Morris
  Trevor-
14. TNTrevor Noah
  Okay?
15. WMWesley Morris
  ... you should, you should just run. Just run.
16. TNTrevor Noah
  Run where?
17. WMWesley Morris
  Away from here. [laughs]
18. TNTrevor Noah
  [laughs] No, because here's, here's, here's why I say this, okay?
19. WMWesley Morris
  That's a good one. Yeah.
20. TNTrevor Noah
  I love what you just said about stories and art and the people, because let's start with, you know, a simplistic idea of where this, this, this journey begins.
21. WMWesley Morris
  Mm-hmm.
22. TNTrevor Noah
  There's a tribe somewhere in Africa, they're making their craft.
23. WMWesley Morris
  Pottery.
24. TNTrevor Noah
  Pottery.
25. WMWesley Morris
  Yes.
26. TNTrevor Noah
  Plates, whatever. They're making jewelry.
27. WMWesley Morris
  Yes, bronze.
28. TNTrevor Noah
  You know, the Zulu were smelting gold long before Europeans were, et cetera, et cetera. So they're just doing their thing.
29. WMWesley Morris
  In Mapungubwe they were making rhino statues there.
30. TNTrevor Noah
  Exactly. Exactly.
1:01:33 – 1:10:52
Trump’s Obsession With Museums & Controlling the Narrative
1. WMWesley Morris
  that some curator thought to put a Horace Pippin painting, well, no, in the Prado. In the Prado in Madrid. There are no... There's very little African American art. There's lots of American art, very little art by African Americans.
2. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm-hmm.
3. WMWesley Morris
  There's a Horace Pippin that is just in the, the, the American 20th century art section.
4. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
5. WMWesley Morris
  It's just sitting there next to Ad Reinhardt and, you know, I don't know, Mel Gusow. [laughs] Um, and wait, Mel Gusow's a critic at The New York Times. Forget that. Um-
6. TNTrevor Noah
  He should be there.
7. WMWesley Morris
  Like, he should not be there.
8. TNTrevor Noah
  [laughs]
9. WMWesley Morris
  Uh, like right next to Joseph Stella.
10. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
11. WMWesley Morris
  Right? And there's like, Horace Pippin is just like a little tiny, or not, not insignificantly sized Horace Pippin. He's just among these great white artists.
12. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm.
13. WMWesley Morris
  Um, and it just fills you with pride. Like, I came all the way over here, didn't need to see any Black shit.
14. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Okay.
15. WMWesley Morris
  But here we are, just like a great... And it's like, it is a story... You know, I don't remember which one, which, which Pippin is at the Prado, but it's a, or is it a Bearden? Now I'm just all over the place.
16. TNTrevor Noah
  You can just say names, and I'm gonna-
17. WMWesley Morris
  It, it won't matter
18. TNTrevor Noah
  ... stay here because I don't know-
19. WMWesley Morris
  But I, I-
20. TNTrevor Noah
  I don't know the names of any artists
21. WMWesley Morris
  I believe-
22. TNTrevor Noah
  So you can just say them
23. WMWesley Morris
  ... it's actually not Horace Pippin, it's Romare Bearden.
24. TNTrevor Noah
  You can call it-
25. WMWesley Morris
  Um-
26. TNTrevor Noah
  You can say Judith. You can say-
27. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
28. TNTrevor Noah
  ... Arnold. You can, I'm just gonna be like mm-hmm.
29. WMWesley Morris
  There's a great Romare Bearden that lives at the Prado.
30. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm.
1:10:52 – 1:27:08
Trump Is Shaped By Whoever Whispers In His Ear
1. WMWesley Morris
  in which I think, depending on, like, how, depending on what the Smithsonian body chooses to do in response-
2. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm
3. WMWesley Morris
  ... to the threat-
4. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm-hmm
5. WMWesley Morris
  ... I think there's a world in which, you know, forget the presidential library, like, one of those museums becomes his.
6. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm.
7. WMWesley Morris
  Right? And it is filled with, with, with not just his version of American history, but the history of him.
8. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm.
9. WMWesley Morris
  Right? He thinks, I mean, it's, I don't-
10. TNTrevor Noah
  Wow
11. WMWesley Morris
  ... I can't recall a person who simultaneously, you know, I'm not a historian. Like, I'll let, like, the Smithsonian staff, like, come at me when I say this, um, because they would know better than I would. But I can't think of a living person of that level of prominence with that degree of power who also simultaneously knows nothing about [laughs] history, but also has a deep understanding that he is making it as he goes.
12. TNTrevor Noah
  That's fascinating. What a conundrum.
13. WMWesley Morris
  Mm-hmm, right?
14. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
15. WMWesley Morris
  And so he, I'm gonna say he doesn't like that history, not only because it [laughs] defaces white people, like, like, blames white people. It's that he honestly can't imagine himself-
16. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm
17. WMWesley Morris
  ... in that story.
18. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm.
19. WMWesley Morris
  He can literally say he never owned slaves, right?
20. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm-hmm.
21. WMWesley Morris
  He can say he never enslaved anybody. He can't say he never rented to a Black person. [laughs] He can't say, he can't say, "I, I, I never," he can't say, "I never didn't."
22. TNTrevor Noah
  Right, yeah.
23. WMWesley Morris
  He can't say, "I never denied a whole," you know, there are lots of things he can't say he didn't do.
24. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm-hmm.
25. WMWesley Morris
  He can't imagine himself, he cannot, it, he can't, he doesn't have the empathy to understand the degree to which, or he's denied himself access-
26. TNTrevor Noah
  To that
27. WMWesley Morris
  ... to an empathy, because he, he performed it once. [laughs] He went on that tour and came back and was like, "Works for me." So I think-
28. TNTrevor Noah
  You might be a little more generous in your reading of him than I would be
29. WMWesley Morris
  Probably, probably. I am, I-
30. TNTrevor Noah
  No, and I'll, I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. I... The thing that's, in many ways, scares me more with Donald Trump is I feel like he is completely shaped by the people he is with at any given time.
1:27:08 – 1:28:20
Horror Movies & “Die With a Smile”: Our Current Death Drive
1. TNTrevor Noah
  could you?
2. WMWesley Morris
  But-
3. TNTrevor Noah
  People are terrified.
4. WMWesley Morris
  I think though-
5. TNTrevor Noah
  And I, what I mean people, I mean like the money is terrified. I don't mean like the people, people.
6. WMWesley Morris
  Oh, yes. But what's interesting is these things have a way of happening anyway.
7. TNTrevor Noah
  Anyway, yes.
8. WMWesley Morris
  Right?
9. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm-hmm.
10. WMWesley Morris
  So I think that's really fascinating that like the horror movie is, like the most interesting things happening at the movies in, at least in this country, involve horror, right?
11. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm-hmm.
12. WMWesley Morris
  Involve, you know, the un- like the darkest, grimmest, and not just like, you know, there's a, there's a crazy person at the door, but like there are mysterious things happening that don't seem to make a lot of sense.
13. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm.
14. WMWesley Morris
  And it's interesting to me that like our death drive is on the charts, right? Like I'm obsessed with the fact that Die With a Smile [laughs]
15. TNTrevor Noah
  [laughs]
16. WMWesley Morris
  This Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars song that, that won't die is called like, is still in the top 10. It is as of this, as of our conversation right now-
17. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah
18. WMWesley Morris
  ... it is number 10. It has been in the top 10 for a year. Like when we were kids, songs didn't last, you'd, like if you got a song to last in the top 10 for a week-
19. TNTrevor Noah
  A week.
1:28:20 – 1:39:24
Superman Reboots Reflect America’s Self-Image
1. WMWesley Morris
  Right?
2. TNTrevor Noah
  You were like a, yeah.
3. WMWesley Morris
  So the idea that you've had a song that's been in the top 10 for a year, it, like it probably more than a year at this point, is just mind-blowing to me. And maybe it's not more than a year, but it's definitely almost a year. And it's about like, you know, I'd rather like, you know, it's coming back to me, the melody just hit me. Just wa-
4. TNTrevor Noah
  [laughs]
5. WMWesley Morris
  Just like washed over me. Um, you're, you don't have to deal with this. I don't know if you're doing the Grammys this year, but you don't have to deal with this song, 'cause it-
6. TNTrevor Noah
  I really thought that was the lyrics of-
7. WMWesley Morris
  It was last year's song
8. TNTrevor Noah
  ... I thought that was the lyrics of the song.
9. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
10. TNTrevor Noah
  I was like, no.
11. WMWesley Morris
  All right.
12. TNTrevor Noah
  I was like, you-
13. WMWesley Morris
  They knew. No. I, I think, it's just fascinating to me that that song is about, not about like spending the rest of my life with you, not about like, but you know, I- I'm, if I get like, you know, another, another bit of time with you, I will die with a smile. Like-
14. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm
15. WMWesley Morris
  ... it's just a-
16. TNTrevor Noah
  It's pop
17. WMWesley Morris
  ... it's a beautiful sentiment, but it's just telling, the song is called Die With a Smile. I'm kind of a literal-minded person. You put it, you put it on a plate like that, I'm, I'm going to put my fork in it. [upbeat music]
18. TNTrevor Noah
  Don't press anything. We've got more What Now? After this. [upbeat music] I, I wonder then when, so when you, you see that, that's what I mean about like how you see these things and how you think about them. Going back to what you said about horror movies.
19. WMWesley Morris
  Hmm.
20. TNTrevor Noah
  I don't think I would think about that just off the bat.
21. WMWesley Morris
  Mm-hmm.
22. TNTrevor Noah
  But we do have to ask ourselves why certain things are more popular when they are, and what they're tapping into, when they're tapping into it. Like, you know, there's, there's more obvious ones that you can see in hindsight, like movies like Rambo and all of those things. America was telling itself a story.
23. WMWesley Morris
  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
24. TNTrevor Noah
  And it needed to tell itself the story, and it did it successfully, you know? And even in like the cartoons and stuff like that, like when I think of like Popeye, Popeye was telling me a story.
25. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs] It was definitely telling a story.
26. TNTrevor Noah
  You know? And, and, and-
27. WMWesley Morris
  Of domestic violence?
28. TNTrevor Noah
  W- who is-
29. WMWesley Morris
  And the way they-
30. TNTrevor Noah
  Oh, Bluto.
1:39:24 – 2:04:17
Why We No Longer Get Human Stories Like Forrest Gump
1. TNTrevor Noah
  screaming."
2. SPSpeaker
  [laughs]
3. TNTrevor Noah
  "That's your only role."
4. SPSpeaker
  [laughs]
5. TNTrevor Noah
  And then Superman-
6. SPSpeaker
  You've ruined it for me now
7. TNTrevor Noah
  ... or The Hulk or whoever-
8. WMWesley Morris
  Hmm
9. TNTrevor Noah
  ... DC or whatever-
10. WMWesley Morris
  Gonna destroy your office
11. TNTrevor Noah
  ... they're gonna... Yeah, but all you, your only role is to scream and run, and then pray Superman swoops you off the ground before the thing falls on you, and pray that, you know, Storm creates a little tornado to prot- But that's your only ro- They don't even, like, help the superheroes. There's not even, like, a thing where it's like-
12. WMWesley Morris
  No
13. TNTrevor Noah
  ... "If it wasn't for you, people of Earth, this wouldn't..." No.
14. WMWesley Morris
  Hmm. It's like, "Y'all wouldn't be anything without us."
15. TNTrevor Noah
  Your job is to have your hot dog cart that gets blown up.
16. SPSpeaker
  [laughs]
17. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
18. TNTrevor Noah
  And all you do is run away. Your job is to have your car fall off a bridge, and then that superhero comes and lifts it and holds the bridge, and then you get out with your family. That's your only purpose.
19. WMWesley Morris
  Hmm. But that's us turning everything over to these powers, right?
20. TNTrevor Noah
  But that's what I mean.
21. WMWesley Morris
  Like-
22. TNTrevor Noah
  But I'm saying, like, you don't, you don't think of the power of that because... And I'm sure some people watching this will be like, "Ah, come on, man, movies." But one of the best analyses that was, like, like of sociology was the, the Eddie Murphy special when he talked about Rocky. Do you remember that bit?
23. WMWesley Morris
  Oh, yes.
24. TNTrevor Noah
  And he talked about-
25. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah
26. TNTrevor Noah
  ... like, what it did for, like, white working class males. "Yo, Rocko. Hey, Rocko."
27. SPSpeaker
  [laughs]
28. TNTrevor Noah
  He... And I think it was very astute. It made a lot-
29. WMWesley Morris
  It's true
30. TNTrevor Noah
  ... of people who were like, "Oh, that's me. I- I'm a, quote unquote, nobody."
2:04:17 – 2:11:45
The Joy of Thinking Deeper About Culture
1. WMWesley Morris
  do you guys... Like, are there, like, South African critics that you, that you like a lot?
2. SPSpeaker
  Well, there was one that Trevor brought up the other day.
3. WMWesley Morris
  Who?
4. SPSpeaker
  Which we grew up watching on television every Sunday.
5. TNTrevor Noah
  Oh, Barry Roninger?
6. SPSpeaker
  Yeah. That was-
7. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah, he was legendary.
8. SPSpeaker
  Oh.
9. WMWesley Morris
  Okay, I'm into that.
10. TNTrevor Noah
  But he would-
11. WMWesley Morris
  I would love to-
12. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah, he, he was a film critic, but he was-
13. SPSpeaker
  Every Sunday.
14. WMWesley Morris
  Barry Roninger?
15. SPSpeaker
  Yeah.
16. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah.
17. WMWesley Morris
  Okay.
18. TNTrevor Noah
  Passed away many, many years ago, but, like, he was the first person I think most of us encountered where he would... He wouldn't tell you, like, the movie was cool or fun or... He di- he didn't use any of those words or ideas. He, he critiqued what it was trying to do and what it meant-
19. WMWesley Morris
  Hmm
20. TNTrevor Noah
  ... and how it w-
21. SPSpeaker
  Mm. Mm
22. TNTrevor Noah
  ... but in a way where like I remember sitting in front of the TV as a 10-year-old and I felt like I needed, like, a monocle and a glass of tea.
23. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
24. TNTrevor Noah
  No, because of how sophisticated he made me feel.
25. WMWesley Morris
  Oh, interesting.
26. TNTrevor Noah
  Do you know what I mean?
27. WMWesley Morris
  Mm-hmm.
28. TNTrevor Noah
  Like, I would, I would... And then when I would go to the cinema, I would stand then with my friends and I'd be like, "Ah, yes, I've heard that it relies too heavily on tropes of..." [laughs]
29. WMWesley Morris
  [laughs]
30. SPSpeaker
  [laughs]
2:11:45 – 2:15:45
Wesley’s Top Movies of the Year: Weapons, Sinners & More"
1. WMWesley Morris
  I'm still not sure about Sinners in terms of, like-
2. TNTrevor Noah
  100%
3. WMWesley Morris
  ... what is going on in it.
4. TNTrevor Noah
  100%.
5. WMWesley Morris
  Um, whereas Weapons, it's- it's pretty cl- there's some ambiguities, but-
6. TNTrevor Noah
  It ties it up. It's pretty, yeah
7. WMWesley Morris
  ... its ambiguities aren't really its selling point. It's the crispness of its filmmaking and its, its real attention to how to build and generate and exploit suspense. Um, but Sinners is just, like, God damn it.
8. TNTrevor Noah
  It's a great film.
9. WMWesley Morris
  Like, this, the first hour of that movie alone, I could have watched two of that.
10. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah, that's just like a film film.
11. WMWesley Morris
  Yeah. And this is like ... And it's just a very satisfying i- work of ideas.
12. TNTrevor Noah
  Hmm.
13. WMWesley Morris
  Um, and sometimes a work of ideas is almost better than a perfectly made movie.
14. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm-hmm.
15. WMWesley Morris
  Um, so I mean, those are the two. And then there's this movie that's gonna come out in the fall, um, by Kelly Reichardt called Mastermind that's about, um, that's got, um ... Oh, my God, what's that guy's name? I'm not used to saying it. Uh, he's the Irish guy who was in Challengers, who is not Mike Faist. Um-
16. TNTrevor Noah
  Irish guy in Challengers.
17. WMWesley Morris
  Y- anyway, that guy, whose name will occur to me while I'm saying this to you, um, he tries to commit, you're not gonna believe this, an art heist. [laughs]
18. TNTrevor Noah
  Mm. Full circle moment.
19. WMWesley Morris
  And the question is, um, is he going to pull it off? Um, and I won't ruin it for you, but this movie has ... It's just, you, it's thrilling because you're watching a director whose movies you've been, I've been watching for-
20. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah
21. WMWesley Morris
  ... years.
22. TNTrevor Noah
  Been yearning for.
23. WMWesley Morris
  And she, she's just really, she's an art house, she's an art director. She doesn't care wh- I don't think, I don't know if she cares where her movies get played, but, like, she just, all, she's into texture. She's into, like, atmosphere. Plot is not really her thing.
24. TNTrevor Noah
  Yeah, yeah.
25. WMWesley Morris
  This woman was like, "You know what? I wanna, I wanna tell a story, beginning, middle, end, suspense, surprise." This movie has the, the ending of the year.
26. TNTrevor Noah
  Oh, wow.
27. WMWesley Morris
  It's got-
28. TNTrevor Noah
  Big words.
29. WMWesley Morris
  Um, it's called Mastermind. It is, it is very, very good with that Irish actor that you're gonna see all over. What, is it Josh O'Connor? Is that it? It's Josh O'Connor. Um-
30. TNTrevor Noah
  We, we, we believe in no googling in our friendship.

Episode duration: 2:15:51

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