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What Now? With Trevor NoahWhy AI Won’t Destroy Us with Microsoft’s Brad Smith | What Now? with Trevor Noah Podcast
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Chapter summaries
Opening Teaser and Welcome to Brad Smith
The episode opens with a teaser on whether AI could replace humanity, then Trevor Noah welcomes Brad Smith. Noah explains how they met in 2016 and the range of topics he wants to cover.
- •Teaser: Smith says he doesn't want to replace humanity
- •Noah recorded the episode at the Microsoft CEO Summit in Seattle
- •Noah and Smith have known each other since October 2016
- •Topics planned: AI, geopolitics, elections, misinformation and disinformation
Building Trust Across Borders: Electricity, AI and Data Centers
Noah asks how Smith holds together deals and relationships while on the road about 120 days a year. Smith says investment must genuinely benefit others, using the example of electricity access and a French minister's worry about dependence.
- •Smith travels roughly 120 days a year
- •Permission to invest depends on genuinely benefiting others
- •700 million people still lack electricity, 43% of people in Africa according to Smith
- •Data centers built in France are subject to French law and regulation
- •Smith says the company must win trust in a new equation
Diplomacy and AI as a Unifying Idea
Noah asks what leaders are missing in diplomacy now that people seem to avoid sitting at tables. Smith says AI is a unifying idea because no leader he has met wants humans subjugated by machines or a machine starting a war.
- •Real differences exist, but talking helps people find common ground
- •No country or military leader wants machines to subjugate humans or start wars
- •Smith does not frame AI as a common foe but as a reminder of shared humanity
- •Noah says AI illuminates the human experience by making people clear-eyed about moral questions
Tools and Weapons: The Three-Legged Stool
Noah brings up Smith's book Tools and Weapons and asks why AI should be seen as both. Smith uses the broom example, says the tech sector failed to anticipate the weaponization of social media, and describes society as a stool of government, business and civil society.
- •Technology can be used for both good and bad, as with a broom
- •Smith believes the tech sector is doing better than five years ago and must improve substantially
- •Russians weaponized social media while the industry was too idealistic to anticipate it
- •Healthy societies rest on government, business and nonprofits
- •Smith says Russian operatives work to sow dissension between these groups
Russian Disinformation and Global Perceptions
Noah asks about Microsoft's warning before the Ukraine invasion and why some parts of Africa and South America view Russia differently. Smith explains how Russian influence operations work by telling plausible stories amplified through technology and social media.
- •Most of Europe is united after seeing Russian forces enter Ukraine
- •Russia runs a global cyber influence operation
- •Effective misleading stories are just plausible enough to be believed
- •Deepfakes are sometimes used, but social media does most of the amplifying
- •The goal, as relayed from a conversation with Navalny, is to persuade people that no one is trustworthy
The TikTok Debate
Noah asks about TikTok, its popularity with young people and the government's concerns. Smith says China already limits American services, the US moved more slowly, and the concern has shifted from privacy to disinformation, with a sale to trusted owners as a possible answer.
- •Smith says it would be a shame if TikTok went away because of reduced competition
- •China doesn't allow most American platforms, and the US has now taken a similar position
- •The debate began around privacy but turned on use for disinformation and influence operations
- •Smith suggests a sale to companies and brands the public trusts, leaving courts to settle the legal questions
A Principled Company: Defense and Protecting Civilians
Noah asks where a global company's loyalty lies when it operates in other countries' domains. Smith lists Microsoft's principles: it defends countries rather than conducting offensive operations, and it protects civilians as a universal principle rooted in the Geneva Convention.
- •Microsoft works defensively and does not engage in offensive operations
- •Protecting civilians is a universal principle from World War II and the 1949 Geneva Convention
- •Smith says the company stands up for civilians of every nationality
- •Shared principles unify the company's role everywhere
Elections, Social Media and Lessons Not Yet Learned
With many elections ahead worldwide, Noah asks why Microsoft sees social media's influence differently from social media companies. Smith says people find criticism of their work hard to accept, that early euphoria blinded the industry, and that regulators should fix past social media mistakes rather than just move on to AI.
- •Most people feel good about their work, which makes criticism hard to accept
- •Social media was once seen as the savior of democracy and a great equalizer
- •That euphoria is a warning for how we approach AI
- •Governments say they won't repeat social media mistakes with AI, but Smith asks whether the old ones will be fixed
- •Solutions need tech companies, governments and nonprofits acting together
Technology, Isolation and Disagreement
Noah asks how it is that technology keeps people in their own rooms while we want them in the same room. Smith traces the pattern from the automobile and telephone to smartphones, and says social media makes it easier to avoid people who disagree with us.
- •Social media fans discord and displaces in-person time
- •Cars and telephones also weakened local ties in earlier generations
- •The iconic image of the last decade is family members absorbed in their own screens
- •Avoiding people we disagree with makes our worldview smaller
- •Smith urges listening, talking and having a thick skin
The Dark Side of AI: Misuse and Widening Divides
Noah asks about the scary side of AI. Smith worries that bad actors will use it for fraud, bullying and election interference, and that it could deepen social divides, and he says defense is possible through AI detection, public education and attention to the digital divide.
- •Smith's two main worries are people amplifying existing harms with AI and AI worsening social divides
- •Examples include school bullies, fraud against seniors and election interference
- •Fighting criminal activity requires thinking like a criminal to anticipate it
- •Smith says defenses include using AI to detect AI and public education
- •Roughly three billion people lack internet access, widening the technology divide
AI's Upside: Healthcare, Lower Barriers and Curiosity
Noah asks what excites Smith most about AI's potential. Smith points to expanded healthcare access and drug discovery, to AI lowering the barrier to doing hard things, and to curiosity as the trait of successful people.
- •Many people lack access to a doctor, and AI can accelerate drug discovery
- •AI lets people ask for help to do things they don't know how to do themselves
- •Smith says curiosity is the trait most common in successful people
- •He calls AI the best thing invented for curious people
Philosophy of AI: Making People Better, Not Replacing Them
Noah asks where humans fit if AI does the thinking work. Smith says Microsoft's mission is technology that empowers people rather than replaces them, and that he doesn't believe machines can do everything people can. The conversation closes with thanks and a recommendation of Smith's book.
- •Smith comes from the liberal arts side and sits weekly with engineers
- •Microsoft's mission is empowering people to do what they couldn't before
- •Smith thinks those who say machines can do everything underestimate human creativity
- •He doesn't want a future where people have nothing to do but go to the beach
- •Noah recommends Smith's book as even-handed, optimistic but cautious
