What Now? With Trevor NoahZohran Mamdani: New York's New Mayor Pops In
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
65 min read · 13,073 words- 0:00 – 2:00
Intro and why nothing is ever off the record
- TNTrevor Noah
[upbeat music] This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Eat well for less. [upbeat music] God bless. How you doing, man? Good to see you. Congratulations, by the way. Thank you very much. What did he win? Very much. Huh? He won an all-expenses-paid trip- Almost the family- To, to the Upper East Side. Yeah. [laughs] All-expenses-paid trip to the Upper East Side. Call a number. [laughs] What, what number mayor are you, by the way? They're saying it's 112. No ways. Yeah. Peaches and Cream. [laughs] Ha, ha. What? I see what you did there. They should sing at your inauguration. [laughs] Do, do, do, do. Uh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. You know what's stuck in my head? What? Peaches and Cream? Kanda. [laughs] Kanda. Ay, Kanda. Ay, Kanda. And oh yeah, I made it. Kanda. Yes. [laughs] Kanda. That was a vibe, man. That was me. We made, we made Sound City top 10- That was me the whole- ... songs of the week You don't even understand the whole- Top 10. There's another one too. It's like- Who's that other guy? You, you- Hab. You aged... Hab, yeah. Yeah, I grew up with him. Where is he? He's in Kampala. Oh, just- Has he reached out to you? Yeah, yeah, no, I'm in touch with him. He's a close friend. When, when you won, did H- U- H-U-D say, "You did it"? [laughs] We were like, is it H-A-B or is it Hab? H-A-B. [laughs] It is H-A-B, right? Yeah, it says- So it's H-A- Hab, Hab. Sorry, I thought you were asking me to spell. No, I didn't know if it's- Yeah, yeah. Hab ... if it's... We were like, 'cause it was- [laughs] He knows ... all in caps. [laughs] Then we were like, is this, is it Hab or is it H-A-B? Did, did Hab text you and go, "How did you convince them?" [laughs] [laughs] 'Cause I'm sure Hab remembers rolling with you, trying to go to a radio station- Hab, Hab remembers ... in Kampala trying to get your song played. And then he was like, "You couldn't convince one station manager in Kampala." [laughs] How did you do this? "The whole of New York. How?" [laughs] You know the reason his name is Hab? Tell me. Was, if we're off the record or off camera. Nothing is off the- Uh- Nothing's off the record. Okay. Don't say anything- Zohran expresses- [laughs] ... when the red light is on. It's like- [laughs] Nothing is... Let me tell you the first
- 2:00 – 4:00
Cameras change the truth even when people pretend they don’t
- TNTrevor Noah
thing. Can I tell you, I'll give you a tip- [laughs] Give it to me ... that I learned v- like, very early on with The Daily Show and everything. Yeah. Nothing is off the record. And they're never gonna know. N- no. [laughs] When you, if you, when you walk out the room- That's what they never find out ... let me explain. Let me explain. Let me explain. When you walk out... This has always fascinated me in America- Yeah. Yeah ... is when I'll see people. Mm-hmm. Like, some footage will come out from 20 years ago or something- Kanda ... and it'll be something that was sort of behind the scenes. Oh, sorry. Sorry, sorry. No, not Kanda, man. [laughs] Sorry. [laughs] The, the, remember the, the ninjas who were dancing? [laughs] That middle ninja. That was the other video, though. What would I know? Yes, yes. [laughs] That was that one. So- You know, my regret is that my dad dressed up as a ninja- You're lying ... for that video. Nah. And the director of the video taped over that part. No. No, man. Uh-uh. So it's gone. That middle ninja stole the show, though. [laughs] Yeah, there was one, there was one ninja in one of the- Too much swag for a ninja. I was like, "This one, this ninja's Black." [laughs] "This is a Black ninja." [laughs] Oh, man. Yeah, tell me about this thing about America, 'cause I'm trying to learn- No, no, no ... as much as I can. So, yeah, so what I was saying is, like, I was always intrigued by how people would trust just, like, a handshake agreement everywhere. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. People are like, "Oh, this is off the record," but there's a camera rolling- Mm-hmm ... and the sound recording. Mm-hmm. And we're like, "This is off the record," and then 10 years later or five years later or even a day later, the clip comes out, and then people are like, "But, but that was behind the scenes." You're like, "Yes, there's a camera." Mm. [laughs] When you're wearing a microphone- Mm-hmm ... when there's a microphone, when there's a camera- Mm ... it's somewhere. Mm, 'cause the editor's like, "I'm not part of your agreement." It's somewhere. Remember grab them by the pussy? I wasn't there, but- [laughs] Why are you saying, "Do I remember?" Zoran, please, man. [laughs] I'm leaving this between you guys. The way he said, "Do you remember?" You're right, actually. I shouldn't have done... It made it seem like- I accept your apology. Yeah, I apologize. Yeah. But my point is that was all off camera. Hmm. You know who also owes us an apology? That was all off camera. Who? The editor that edited Zoran's dad out of the Kanda. [laughs] I still can't believe he recorded- [laughs] But that's how you... Zohran- Yes ... I think it was definitely
- 4:00 – 6:00
From Kampala to New York City
- TNTrevor Noah
you when you were- Oh, by the way, this is a, this is a special, like, this is... I was like, how do, how do we make this time special with you? And I thought to myself, you've got Zohran Mamdani on the podcast. But I was like, how many, you know how many tie-ins we have in our lives, right? So born in Africa, born in Africa, then, uh, Ugandan, right? Born in Uganda. Then I was like, do you know how many Ugandans I have in my life? In my head I thought to myself, I was like, I collect Ugandans. Then I was like, but you can't say that. Don't say it like that. Also. No. Say it anyway. No, no, no. They don't collect ones. But I, no, no, I'm saying I wasn't gonna say it. [laughs] This is off the record. [laughs] This is off the record. Okay. I'm letting you know- The thought process ... this is in my head. This is off the record. Yeah. So you can't use it against me. [laughs] So then I was like, "I collect Ugandans." Then I was like, but you can't say it like that, so you gotta be like, "I'm in... I have a lot of U..." I don't know how this happened. Mm-hmm. I have a lot of Ugandan friends in my life, like, a lot of Ugandan friends. Mm. You say it like it's a- Like a what? ... it's a problem. No, no, no. You made it sound like a problem, Zohran. [laughs] Don't put that on me. See how it feels like- Don't put that on me ... when someone puts you in a scene that you're not in You owe me an apology. I'll take my apology now. Which camera? Not to me. No. [laughs] This is not about them. The deposition one. This is straight to me. [laughs] Straight to me. I'll take my apologies, Zohran. I apologize. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you very much. So- [laughs] ... then I was like, I'm just gonna bring them all in. So I was like, my, my best friend, who's Indian, my other best friend, who's Ugandan and South African. Ah. They've even got microphones. Let's go. They can just throw things in. Come on. [laughs] Where, where in Uganda, by the way? Kampala. Okay. That's where I was born. Where were you born in Kampala? Mogadishu. Okay. In Sambeya Hospital. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yes. But I moved to South Africa, like you. I can, I can hear. Yeah. And to New York, like you. You guys hated that place, huh? What? [laughs] Which place, South Africa or Uganda? Two places before you were like, "Uh-uh. Uh-uh." [laughs] It actually is a crazy story. Think about it. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. You guys both came from Uganda. Yes. I mean, you're not helpful to me because my parents are like, "I mean, look at what Zohran's done." [laughs] [laughs] I'm
- 6:00 – 7:00
When people still know you as Zohran
- TNTrevor Noah
sorry, man. I'm sorry. [laughs] He's raised the ceiling for what's possible. I mean, like, uh- They thought you had achieved. Yes. [laughs] And now they're like, "Wait, you could have done this. This is what you could have done." How many people are shock- Eugene and I were talking about that the whole day. Like-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... there's gotta be a section of people in your life who are still shocked at the idea of you being the mayor of arguably-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
H-A-B is one of them
- TNTrevor Noah
... the most important cities in the wo- H-A-B.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Oh, H-A-B.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, hub, not hab.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Oh.
- TNTrevor Noah
Different hub. Hab, think of hab.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Oh, not the, oh, but hab.
- TNTrevor Noah
No, but, but there must be, like, genuinely, at, just on, like, a personal level, there must be a ton of people out there who go, they just know you as Zohran.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
And then now you are Zohran Mamdani, the m- next mayor of New York City.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's true, not just in Kampala, but also here in New York City. I mean, there are people I would play on our rec soccer team with, and I was just reading this article today about, um,
- 7:00 – 9:00
How public life quietly changes private life
- ZMZohran Mamdani
about a lot of their reactions and reflections. And-
- TNTrevor Noah
Do you still play with them?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I haven't in a while.
- TNTrevor Noah
Why not? I saw you still have the skills, by the way.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs] It's-
- TNTrevor Noah
I was very impressed
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... highly edited. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
No, no, no, no. Those, you can't edit those skills.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
There are a lot of-
- TNTrevor Noah
No, no, no, you're lying
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... a lot of edits.
- TNTrevor Noah
You can't, no, you can't edit those skills. You, you, like you play, what position did you play?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I have the classic journey of someone who played up top and then lost all of their speed and now plays at left back. [laughs] That's, that's where I am.
- TNTrevor Noah
I started my journey at left back.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
You know when-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
That's, I, I-
- TNTrevor Noah
You know when people say-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
It is ending
- TNTrevor Noah
... you know when people say I fell off to your position?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs] Yeah, I, I used to be good and then now I play where you play all the time.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
That's, that's me, Trevor. That's me. I, I genuinely love that for you, man. I just like-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Thank you
- TNTrevor Noah
... how much, how much has your life changed now? Like, is it, and I don't know if this is just anecdotal, but we were chatting with Ryan about this. We were going, it feels like your social media has gotten a little more serious now. Which makes sense-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... but I don't know if that's just how it looks online. Do you, do you feel like a, a more serious shift in your life?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I think, I don't feel burdened by it.
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm.
- 9:00 – 12:00
Serious power without losing your sense of humour
- TNTrevor Noah
this is your life.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
It'll never be the same after this moment.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
It won't. It won't. But I think that's, what I love though is that you learn different parts of the city because of what your life is like now.
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You know, I think, like, for my wife and I, we, going out at night, like going for a walk at night-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... it has a different kind of meaning now because it's where we can find a little bit of anonymity, right? And so you start to appreciate the city at an hour that you otherwise wouldn't have gone before because you didn't have to make that kind of a decision.
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, okay. Do you have a night voice?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
It would be, "I'm Zohran. I-"
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You can't still be Zohran with a night voice.
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, oh. Who?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mr. Cardamom.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yes, yes.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs] Mayor Cardamom.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mayor Cardamom.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mayor Cardamom to you. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
When the, when the nights of New York get rough and Zohran can't do it, I'm here.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Hey, that's what I'm talking about. Yes.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
That's it.
- TNTrevor Noah
Don't go anywhere, 'cause we got more WhatNow? after this. Whole Foods Market makes holiday hosting simple with delicious prepared dishes, must-have ingredients, and gifts that are just as thoughtful as the food. And look, I'll be honest with you. Every holiday season, I tell myself, "This year, Trevor, this year you're gonna cook something." And every year I absolutely do not. Because the holidays sneak up on you. One minute you're still finishing the Halloween candy, and the next, someone's asking you, "So are you gonna bring a signature dish?" Signature? Guys, I don't even sign my emails. So I've developed a system, a Trevor holiday system. I go to Whole Foods Market, I buy everything, and then I behave like I made it myself. I walk in with confidence. That's the key. Chest out, confidence, and a nice bowl. You see, if you put something in a bowl, people assume you cooked it. It's science. And Whole Foods makes it too easy. The heat and eat dishes, ooh, guys, creamy mashed potatoes, green beans, stuffing, all the classics. All you have to do is warm it up, transfer it into your own dish, and suddenly you're getting compliments like, "Wow, Trevor, you really brought this this year?" Yes, I did bring it. And that's technically true. And the desserts, wow, guys, let me tell you something. The holiday rum cake, oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh my goodness, the tres leches. Those desserts look like they require childhood trauma, a French grandmother, and 12 hours of your life. Nope, I bought it all at Whole Foods, carried it in, put it on the table, and I let the lies flow. Someone said, "Trevor, this is incredible. What's your recipe?" And I said, " [laughs] You know a chef never tells," because in this case the chef doesn't know, because the real chef was Whole Foods. And if you're responsible for the main course, I mean, they've got spiral cut ham, bone-in rib roast, the heavy hitters. One year I showed up with king crab legs. People were silent. They were stunned. They weren't really impressed. They were confused because nobody expects king crab at Thanksgiving. But it tasted good, so they got over it. And to round everything out, I grab 365 by Whole Foods Market staples: green beans, stuffing, dinner
- 12:00 – 14:00
What kind of mayor New York actually needs
- TNTrevor Noah
rolls, the fundamentals. The 365 brand is basically how I fill the table without filling my stress levels. And here's the part people don't think about, the gifts. Whole Foods Market Has cookie gift boxes, beauty gift sets, candles, flowers. I even built a cheese board as a present. Yeah. Not the board, the cheese on top of it. It's one of those gifts that looks thoughtful, but it's really just cheese that's put in the shape of something. People love it. So yeah, my holiday hack is really simple. Whole Foods Market does the work, I take the credit. Everybody wins. And honestly, that's what the holidays are about. Good food, happy people, and lies told with love. Shop for everything you need at Whole Foods Markets, your holiday headquarters. [upbeat music] That's what I'm talking about.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
All right, so I, I know we don't have a lot of time with you, so I, I, I wanna ... I spent a lot of time thinking about this. I was like, "You're a very busy person now, and, you know, you're doing all these things." And I was trying to think, if somebody was watching this episode, what would they hope to get from the conversation? There were only three things that really, really stuck out for me, like, three, three larger ideas. One was how you see the future of New York City, how you wanna build it, how you wanna change it, w- what you wanna improve, what you think the challenges will be, et cetera. It's like the job-job part of it. Uh, the second part of it is the human being.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
And the reason I say that is because in everything that I've seen of yours, genuinely, i- it's, it's either, like, caricatures of people who hate you-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm
- TNTrevor Noah
... or just, like, pieces about what you wanna do. But people sort of don't know you you. And I, I, I think a lot of people would, would like to know who the human being is-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... behind some of these ideas. And then the last part is just, like, random shit that we'll talk about, like, 'cause you're also, like, a pers- You see, like now, you, you did a joke with us. I think you're the first politician I know who's ever told me, like, a joke. Maybe Obama was.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
The first time where I was like, "Oh, this person actually knows humor."
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Do you know what I mean?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
But
- 14:00 – 15:00
What happens during a mayoral transition
- TNTrevor Noah
you're just, like, a, like, a dude. You're just, like, a guy.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Just a guy.
- TNTrevor Noah
He is. [laughs] At night. [laughs] He's Karate Man. [laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, man. So let's ... Okay, let's talk about New York.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Wait, hold on. Where are you from?
- TNTrevor Noah
South Africa.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Where in South Africa?
- TNTrevor Noah
Born in Pretoria-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Okay
- TNTrevor Noah
... but now living in Johannesburg. Does this count against our time, by the way?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Sorry. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs] You know I love you, Eugene.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
It's all right. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
I just wanna know if this counts against our time. [laughs] Yes, it does.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Wait.
- TNTrevor Noah
What did you say? Does this count against our time? No, before that. You know I love you, Eugene. [laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You finally got it.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You finally got it.
- TNTrevor Noah
Thank you.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
How many podcast episodes did this take?
- TNTrevor Noah
50.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Huh?
- TNTrevor Noah
Thank you.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You are loved.
- TNTrevor Noah
Thank you.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You are, you are seen.
- TNTrevor Noah
Thank you.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You are enough.
- 15:00 – 17:00
Choosing people without owing anyone favours
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Okay
- TNTrevor Noah
... uh, by way of Pretoria, South Africa.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Johannesburg by way of Pretoria, South Africa.
- TNTrevor Noah
Jose, stand up. Come on. Okay. Yeah, yeah. You, you know, you know this.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Come on.
- TNTrevor Noah
You know this. So let's talk about New York, and then, and then we'll go, we'll go through your life. Sorry, Eugene. Sorry.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
'Cause now they're gonna be like, "You've run out of time."
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
And then I'll be like, "Some of that time was taken by Eugene just ... " You know what we can even do? We can edit you in saying things about your life.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
We just ... We'll ... When you leave-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah, that'd be-
- TNTrevor Noah
... you, you're just gonna sit here and just be like, "And then I ... "
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
And we'll put that in.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
And we'll call Ryan to s- to double.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah. And then we'll put a stunt double in.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Ryan, you'll be Zohran's stunt double.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
And then you must just, like ...
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah. But anyway, so le- let's, let's ...
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs] Sorry.
- TNTrevor Noah
No, you're safe. Um, actually, run us through the process, right? Um, w- like, what's, what's, what are the orders of business that you're, that you're doing right now? Like, let's, let's, let's go from-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Hm
- TNTrevor Noah
... the shortest term, and let's build out as, as, as, as-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Sounds good
- TNTrevor Noah
... your, your job as mayor. So what are you doing right now?
- 17:00 – 19:00
A government that says how instead of no
- TNTrevor Noah
who's where. You get what I'm saying?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
No, and I, and I, I-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yours, yours is, is, is different though. So how do you pick, and where do you pick?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I think it, it's, it's on an assessment of the work that people have done. And it's quite liberating actually to come into this position and not have to owe favors. You know?
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah. Oh, damn.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Not, not, not be, like-
- TNTrevor Noah
Unburdened. You-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You're just actually making decisions based on-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... do you think this person can do the job? How can they show you that they've already done the job? And at ... You're looking for this combination of a fluency-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... with what it looks like to work within government, and an imagination that is unburdened by the difficulties of working within that government.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Right? So sometimes you would think that the more time you spend in government, the less ambitious you become about what you can do within government.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
But one of the reasons that I hired Dean Fuleihan to be my first deputy mayor, he had served 47 years in, working in government at the city and the state level, is the first time we sat down for adni chai at Kahwa House, he, he told me about how he transformed-
- TNTrevor Noah
Adni chai, like the drink?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Like the drink.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay. Okay.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You ever had adni chai?
- TNTrevor Noah
Just making sure. I ... Ryan, have I had it? I'm assuming. Variations of it.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I'm sure the closest Indian's asked.
- TNTrevor Noah
I've had variations of it. [laughs] No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. The closest Indian- I'm right here. The closest In- I'm right here. Yeah, but you weren't with me drinking. [laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You owe-
- TNTrevor Noah
He monitors-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You owe Zohran an apology
- TNTrevor Noah
... he monitors my- Give me an apology.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You owe- I apologize. Like, I accept.
- TNTrevor Noah
Sharp
- ZMZohran Mamdani
But yes, I've had chai.
- 19:00 – 20:00
Why imagination disappeared from American politics
- TNTrevor Noah
do it. But then I'm assuming you're also interviewing people who, like you, are new to a position.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
'Cause that's, that's the weird paradox, right?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
You've never been mayor of New York, and now you're going to be mayor of New York. So how do you then judge a person who's never done the job? Like, what, what are you looking for in those people where you go, "Hey, you haven't done this, but I think you can"?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Vision.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You, you're, you're looking to hear from them about how they would actually transform the position-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... that you're asking them about. There, there, there's a real temptation, especially when you're looking at a job of this scale, and you're looking at ... You know, we're talking about positions that oversee-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... agencies of tens of thousands of people. There's a temptation to say, "I'm just going to keep the trains running on time."
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm. Mm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
But that's not enough. That's not enough in a city that's the most expensive in the United States of America. It's not enough in a city where one in four people live in poverty. You have to both be able to continue to operate things as they are and push them forward to delivering the city we deserve.
- TNTrevor Noah
Why do you think, or do you think ... 'Cause I mean, I do, so I don't wanna bias you. But, like, it feels like particularly in America, and maybe
- 20:00 – 22:00
Faith, ambition, and believing things can be better
- TNTrevor Noah
other parts of the world, it feels like conservatives have been pretty good at imagining and hoping. And then liberals or progressives or however people wanna, you know-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... left side of the spectrum, have sort of adopted this idea of like, "Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, it, it, it, it w- let's just keep it working well and y- you can't really change much. You can't ... " I, like, do you know how many interviews of yours I've watched where people say, "Zohran, now I agree with your politics. I, I love what you're saying, but I just don't know that we can do it. I just, I just don't think you'll be able to get it done. I just don't." But not once have I seen somebody interviewing, like Trump-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... for instance, on a right wing platform go like, "Ah, dog, I don't know about that wall. I don't know, man. That's a big ass wall. How are you gonna do it?"
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I, I-
- TNTrevor Noah
Do, do you get what I'm saying?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I, I do. I think it's, it's ... You have people ... It seems like Republicans have a limitless imagination.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah. Mm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
And as Democrats, we're constructing an ever lowering ceiling of possibility. It's, it's right here.
- TNTrevor Noah
Wow. Yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You know? And we are robbing ourselves of ambition and imagination, and we're telling people that their choice is between settling or sacrifice, and neither of these are enough. You have to have an affirmative vision of how life can be better than this, because this life already is suffocating people.
- TNTrevor Noah
I sometimes think it's because of the decline of religion on the left.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Tell us more. I, I could pro- I, I'm ... Look, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And you know y- you will tell me if you- [laughs] Wait. There's one thing. [laughs] I will tell you. [laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Hello?
- TNTrevor Noah
Is when I'm wrong.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Am I allowed to speak?
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs] Yeah. I like that you say that into a microphone- [laughs] ... as if the microphone wasn't placed there for the possibility that you may speak. [laughs] Am I allowed to speak? You literally look ... You know what you look like right now? You look like somebody at those, like, town halls- [laughs] Yeah ... where they came from the crowd, and then they don't know how anything works. Or a checker who's about to make an announcement. But let me, let me say this point, and then, yes. [laughs] Let me say ... So, so, so this is the thing-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Before you say this point, though.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Did you steal this point from me?
- 22:00 – 23:00
Why people stopped trusting politics
- TNTrevor Noah
There's, there's a distinct possibility.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Okay, okay.
- TNTrevor Noah
As friends, we all-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Okay. No, no, continue. Continue.
- TNTrevor Noah
As friends- [laughs] I mean, I don't know how you are with your friends. Yeah. But if my friend has a great idea-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
It's mine
- TNTrevor Noah
... it becomes a part of my- [laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... my thinking. This, this point might have come by way of a friendship Tupperware. That's exactly what it is. And when it was open, no one was taking responsibility for what's inside. Preach, Eugene. Preach. Tell people about these relationship Tupperwares. [laughs] Huh? Instead of focusing on where the Tupperware ends up, you should focus on the fact that your friend took the meal that was inside the Tupperware- And enjoyed it ... and enjoyed it. And shared it.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
But he may return it with another meal inside.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah. That's true. That's true. Inshallah. Many of the ideas that you have came from me. And some of that ...
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Which idea of yours did I ... No. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs] So the, the owner of the idea, to me- [laughs] The owner of the idea is not important. Oh, man. I think good ideas l- should live beyond people. [laughs] But if you think about religion and-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm
- TNTrevor Noah
... and how
- 23:00 – 24:00
How politicians should be judged when they fail
- TNTrevor Noah
in most parts of the world-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... religion is declining.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
But it's declining in areas where people are particularly left-leaning or progressive or ... You know what I mean? You see it- I don't think religion is declining. I think faith is declining. Yeah. Well, but the two have been combined for a long time. Yeah, yeah. Right? Absolutely, yeah. And one of the things that, like, faith requires of you- Mm-hmm ... is the ability to believe that this current state that you're in is not the end. Mm-hmm. There is a possibility that something can be greater. 100%. And even though you cannot see it- Yeah ... you believe that it can hap- Yes. It requires literally everything that you just said. Mm. Do, do you know what I mean?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
And, and I think that I've found over the course of the campaign that it's often in houses of worship where New Yorkers still have that trust.
- TNTrevor Noah
Really?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Still have that faith.
- TNTrevor Noah
Interesting. Mm-hmm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
And it's, by and large, lost when it comes to politics. You know, I mean, there are so many people who look at politics as irrelevant to their material struggles on a day-to-day basis, and part of that is because of their own experiences
- 24:00 – 26:00
The three promises that matter most
- ZMZohran Mamdani
of believing in politicians who have not delivered, and thinking that the rational decision is to take as much space as you can.
- TNTrevor Noah
Got it. How, how do you, how do you find, uh ... Oh, just real quick. Yeah. I just wanna know, like, this is a, this is a difficult one, like, with delivery How do you think the public should judge a politician's delivery or lack thereof? Because some things that people set out to do won't be achieved because that's how life is.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
You aim for something and you fail, right? And then some are because of regulation or kickbacks or, you know, corporations or lobbyists or-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
So s- s- one part of it is because of, like, a mud and a sludge.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
And then the other one is because just life is like that. So how, how would you like people to judge you when you're in the mayorship and go, "All right, Zohran, this thing you did achieve, so that's one side. But for the things that you, you didn't," like, how would you want people to judge your s- your failures, which are inevitable in anything that people do?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
We, we built a campaign around three policy commitments.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Freezing the rent for rent-stabilized tenants, making the slowest buses in America fast and free, delivering universal childcare. We have to deliver these things.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
And-
- TNTrevor Noah
That's non-negotiable
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... to, to me, I think it's every day I'm going to wake up pushing these three things forward. And there's no question there are ... This is incredibly difficult work. There are things you will try and you will fail. I think what, what frustrates so many is that there are so many things where it looks like someone is not even trying.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
They are just admitting defeat from the beginning.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You know, they are describing something as unrealistic or impossible. Um, Madiba said, "It's always seems impossible until it's done."
- TNTrevor Noah
Nelson Mandela-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Right
- TNTrevor Noah
... for those who don't know. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Can I ask a question?
- TNTrevor Noah
You're gonna say Nelson Mandela took that from you as well.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
I know how you work. I know the shit that you were gonna say. He's gonna be like, "Where did he get that idea? Where did he get that idea?"
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Who was in prison with him?
- 26:00 – 28:00
What power a mayor actually has
- TNTrevor Noah
Mister O- I'm the only person with ideas. Please, share some with us, Dave.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] Before you say something, I'd like to say it probably wasn't his idea, 'cause he's been quiet. When you started speaking- He was, yes ... he didn't say anything after that. The, the ti- the title was my idea. You know when you get those movies that have the same title, but it's a different movie? The title was my idea, but the-
- TNTrevor Noah
Like the one where the ... Oh, no, never mind.
- SPSpeaker
Okay. So now, uh, Mayor Elect Mamdani, do you know your powers? You know, like, 'cause you ran for mayor, but-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... at some point there's like, you have powers, certain powers.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
So do you know them all? Is- do they give you, like, a book, "These, these are your actual powers"?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
They, they don't give you a book.
- SPSpeaker
Do, do, do ... No, I'm-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
But-
- SPSpeaker
I'm saying ... You know what I mean. Like-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
No, I, I, I, I do. I have, I have, um, definitely an awareness of, of what power this jobs comes with.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I'll give you an example on the three policies I was speaking of. The first one, freezing the rent for rent-stabilized tenants, city of eight and a half million people, about two and a half million live in housing called rent-stabilized housing.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Right?
- TNTrevor Noah
And what does that mean? Just because I-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm
- TNTrevor Noah
... I see people conflate-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah
- TNTrevor Noah
... stabilized versus-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
C- re- rent control is a very small-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, yeah, yeah
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... proportion.
- TNTrevor Noah
So help us understand.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
We're talking about rent-stabilized.
- TNTrevor Noah
What is rent-stabilized? What does that mean?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Rent-stabilized basically applies to half of all tenants in New York City.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay.
- 28:00 – 30:00
Why Trump understood power before anyone else
- ZMZohran Mamdani
the third points that I brought up of making buses fast and free, delivering universal childcare, these are things that have to be done in partnership with Albany, state government, right? The, the reason that it was at a core part of my campaign though is any mayor with an agenda that is as ambitious as the crisis in front of them-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... will require state partnership.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Because the city is effectively a creature of the state, especially after the 1970s fiscal crisis. So one of the most impressive achievements in city politics in the last few decades was the creation of universal pre-K. That was done by the previous mayor, who ... Mayor de Blasio, who ran on that as part of his agenda, needed Albany to get it done. There were all these articles written about how it was unrealistic. He went up against a governor who was very much opposed to it, and he won the funding for that because of the coalition that he built.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
And so my point here is that there are some things you can do directly yourself. There are other things you will have to build the coalition around you to do, but all of these things have to be part and parcel of it. Because I can tell you, to my mind, one of the most frustrating things you can tell a New Yorker when they call your district office is, "Oh, that's not, that's not actually my jurisdiction."
- TNTrevor Noah
Ah, yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
"You should call this person," or, "You should call at that level." Being the mayor of this city comes with immense power, not to say total power at all, but immense power to at least start an agenda and then start to deliver that agenda when you build the coalition you need. That's where I see the possibility in these three things.
- SPSpeaker
So okay, great. This is great.
- TNTrevor Noah
Wait, you know, when you, when you say the thing about the, the book of power-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- TNTrevor Noah
... it makes me think of, like ... I think you and I actually had this conversation. We talked about how-
- SPSpeaker
Mostly me giving ideas. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
We talked about how ... A- again, I don't care where good ideas come from.
- SPSpeaker
No.
- TNTrevor Noah
You know? Uh, my idea-
- SPSpeaker
I'm joking. I'm joking
- TNTrevor Noah
... is people shouldn't worry about their egos.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Um, but no, but we, we had this conversation about-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, no, I'm joking. I'm joking
- TNTrevor Noah
... we, we, we talked about, we're talking about Trump, and we literally, we, we, we-
- SPSpeaker
Yes
- TNTrevor Noah
... joked and we said, "It feels like
- 30:00 – 31:00
The tools government forgot it already had
- TNTrevor Noah
Trump was the first person to read that book."
- SPSpeaker
Hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Do you know what I mean?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
Because there's so many things-
- SPSpeaker
No one can be done.
- TNTrevor Noah
No, because there's so many things where Trump is doing it, and then people are like, "Uh, can a president do that?" And then it's like, "Oh, yeah, he can." And you're like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We didn't know that you could do all of these things." And I think that's sort of what the question is.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah, and I, and, and I think it's ... Look We have this transition. We have four incredible co-chairs. One of them is Lina Khan. And Lina Khan-
- TNTrevor Noah
Can we get Lina Khan on the show, by the way? She's one of my favorite human beings. No, can I tell you, I, I ... We'll have a separate conversation about this.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I'll pass the request on.
- TNTrevor Noah
I'll tell you why. I hate-
- SPSpeaker
Does it take away from our time?
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
Okay. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
But it's, but it'll add time value. It'll add value.
- SPSpeaker
Okay. Okay.
- TNTrevor Noah
No, I'll tell you why.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Lina Khan, like you see in, like on a wall of like superheroes.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
The way I hate monopolies, mergers, acquisitions, and you know this as my friends-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Orlando Pirates.
- TNTrevor Noah
I don't think that counts.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
What about the Orlando Pirates? [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
What about ... Sorry.
- TNTrevor Noah
But thank you for that, Eugene.
- 31:00 – 33:00
Are ambulances too loud in New York
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Trevor, what the hell?
- SPSpeaker
Mergers.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mergers. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Acquisitions. Kaiser Chiefs.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh, man.
- SPSpeaker
What are we doing?
- TNTrevor Noah
It goes my brain, like Orlando Pirates. [laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Cortaz with no Russian.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
No. Anyway, she's ... I'll tell you, she's a hero because I, I think she taps into-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
She's amazing.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... and I think that's maybe why you picked her. Part of it is she taps into the understanding that not everything is happening on the surface the way you think it is.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
And then you go like, "Why did that happen? Why did that happen?" And then she's like, "Oh, let me show you where it started."
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm-hmm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Like she's at the origin story-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm
- TNTrevor Noah
... of a lot of these things.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
She, and she spoke about that when she first got to her job, she felt like she was experiencing the great forgetting.
- SPSpeaker
Wow.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Where she got there and it felt as if so many people working in government had forgotten the tools they had at their disposal.
- TNTrevor Noah
You see? That's, that's what I'm talking about.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
And, and-
- 33:00 – 35:00
Small problems that quietly destroy trust
- TNTrevor Noah
citizenship. As citizen.
- SPSpeaker
Hey, hey, Uganda.
- TNTrevor Noah
Wait, wait, wait, Dave. Dave, wait. No, but actually, I, I do like this question because I, I think ... You know why? As I get it, macro versus micro.
- SPSpeaker
Yes.
- TNTrevor Noah
I think these are like the nice things-
- SPSpeaker
That's what I mean
- TNTrevor Noah
... to try and understand. I, I'll, I'll interpret for you.
- SPSpeaker
So now.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
So now, one, we all agree that ambulances are too loud.
- TNTrevor Noah
Way too loud in New York.
- SPSpeaker
When, when-
- TNTrevor Noah
Way too loud. I agree.
- SPSpeaker
They're too loud.
- TNTrevor Noah
They're way too loud.
- SPSpeaker
One ambulance, and the entire Manhattan knows that, you know that-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yes, I agree
- ZMZohran Mamdani
One-
- TNTrevor Noah
You don't even know-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Someone's about to lose their life.
- TNTrevor Noah
You don't know. You don't even know.
- SPSpeaker
No, no. Don't join that. But that's the point. That's my point.
- TNTrevor Noah
Is that too much of an inconvenience for you?
- SPSpeaker
For the car to tell you-
- TNTrevor Noah
No, Eugene, Eugene, Eugene
- SPSpeaker
... that, that someone is in-
- TNTrevor Noah
No, let me explain. Let me explain. Eugene, wait. Let me explain. Let me explain. I, this is what Dave means really. You don't even know where it's coming from.
- SPSpeaker
No.
- TNTrevor Noah
It's pointless at some point. It's like no-
- SPSpeaker
It knows where it's going. That's the most important part.
- 35:00 – 40:00
Why buses being slow is a political choice
- TNTrevor Noah
be having dinner, and this guy's coming up.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I know too many guys like this anyway.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
No.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Now I'm the mayor, I still know these guys.
- SPSpeaker
No, because you have these, you have these, these big ideas. That's what I'm saying.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
In your book, I'm sure you can say that, and most people will, will agree.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Most people will ... No. No, no, no, 'cause we all agree, at some point we're gonna need an ambulance. We all agree.
- TNTrevor Noah
Small, small injury, small, small siren.
- SPSpeaker
S- small siren. Big injury, big siren.
- TNTrevor Noah
Can ... No. N- now, on, on a real though, can you ... Like w- are those the kinds of things that you actually can do unilaterally, or do you need to like ... Is there a board? Is there a ...
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs] On, on-
- TNTrevor Noah
No, I think there's a-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
On this question, I have-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, yeah. I mean it. I mean it. I know it sounds crazy
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... no idea.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay, okay. What about, what about something like-
- SPSpeaker
So you don't know what's in the book.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs] I am not gonna sit here-
- SPSpeaker
So you don't know what's in the book
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... and pretend that I even know the process-
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... by which you would consider trading volume for-
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
No
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... for silence.
- TNTrevor Noah
Severity of injury. [laughs]
- 40:00 – 44:00
How free buses make cities safer
- TNTrevor Noah
into that position, how do you manage that perception? So sirens is a good one. When you live in a city where you constantly hear sirens, it seems like something's always going wrong. Recently, when I traveled to London, Amsterdam, all these, I was, I was shocked at how quiet it wa- But I ... It took me a while to realize something was, like, missing.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm. And then you're like, "Wait. It's quiet." And the, the quiet just makes you feel like-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Where's Dave?
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs] Man. [laughs] That was a good one. Can I tell you something? Can I tell you something? Your timing is impeccable. This, this Uganda on Uganda violence-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
It's so beautiful
- TNTrevor Noah
... I'm here for it.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
I'm here for it.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I thought it was the dictator that started it. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
All I, all I, all I'm waiting for Zohran to turn and do is look at you and be like, "Why are you Dave?" [laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs] "Why are you Dave? Are you not Dave?" Um, okay. So, uh, help me, help me understand why you chose the three. The, the freezing the rent, that, I mean, I hope is self-explanatory to everybody.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm. Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
The cost of living is, it's unsustainable in New York and in many places in the world.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah.
- TNTrevor Noah
If people cannot afford to live, then they, they don't even wanna be part of that society. The buses.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Mm.
- TNTrevor Noah
He- help me understand wh- why foster buses and free buses.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
So these are the slowest buses in America.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
That's not-
- TNTrevor Noah
Like, like what do you mean by that? Like the speed that they go?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
The speed, right? We're talking about an average speed, um, in certain parts of Manhattan, around five miles an hour.
- TNTrevor Noah
That's like wa- that's walking fast.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You can, you can beat the bus when you walk.
- TNTrevor Noah
Like running type thing. Yeah, yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Um, and what we see is that more than a million New Yorkers ride the bus.
- TNTrevor Noah
Okay.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
It costs $2.90. That is out of reach for one in five New Yorkers.
- 44:00 – 47:00
When convenience becomes something you have to buy
- ZMZohran Mamdani
it to be such that it is the option you choose. So that's what it comes back to. And the other part of this is this is disproportionately hurting working class New Yorkers. Yeah. Because a bus rider, the average salary of a bus rider is around $30,000 a year, right? We are talking about the most working class New Yorkers who are dealing with some of the most substandard public transit, and it's a political choice. It feels like New York has, like many cities in the world, fallen into the trap of fixing what needs to be fixed for the wealthy, and then sort of ignoring or pushing aside the problems that affect the poor. I mean, I think about, [laughs] I think about when you fly. Yeah. We have made it such a difficult experience to go through T- TSA- Mm-hmm ... that there's now a financial incentive to sign up for a separate program- Yeah ... that can move you through it quicker. Yeah. I mean, we have monetized the dysfunction of flying. Do you think that's by design though? I'm gonna leave that to you and Dave, man.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, convenience is up for sale.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Absolutely.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I mean, it's-
- SPSpeaker
Convenience has been up for sale for the longest time
- ZMZohran Mamdani
It's, but it's absurd to me that w- that you should have to pay for the experience that you should already be getting. You already paid. This, anyway.
- SPSpeaker
This is a, a-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
This is a real question about the-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I thought you said no more questions.
- SPSpeaker
No, no. Oh, on that topic.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Oh, on that topic. This a real, a real question on the buses. How come you didn't go with, um, like the people who were paying- Hmm ... can, who ... You know, 'cause some people not don't mind paying, but they, like, they can pay in a way to keep the revenue coming in, and then people who can't pay- This is, this is a good question ... can't pay, then they have a way of like, okay. So this, this is in effect a question about universal approach versus means tested. Means tested would say if you make a certain income or less, then you should be eligible for a reduction in your fare or the elimination of your fare. There already exists a program in New York City called Fair Fares, where if you make a certain amount of money or less, you'll get a reduced fare. The MTA, by last estimate, when they were testifying at the state, they said about 40% of eligible New Yorkers are enrolled. The question was asked to them, what would success look like? They said 50%. So success looks like leaving 50% of your eligible population out of your program. And so whenever you create a means tested program, you are comfortable to some level with saying goodbye to people who would be eligible for it because you know the hurdles of creating a bureaucratic system of proving eligibility, of applying, of receiving, and then of using. Versus if you make something free at point of use, you capture the entirety of everyone you're looking to serve. And this is the difference, is that the safety of that bus, the
- 47:00 – 50:00
Why childcare is pushing families out of cities
- ZMZohran Mamdani
efficacy of how it is moving, the question of the doors, all of this is tied to the elimination of fare at once. Mm-hmm. And when we made those five bus routes free, we found the s- most significant increase in riders was among New Yorkers making $28,000 a year or less. Hmm. They're already eligible- Yeah ... for Fair Fares, but less than 20% of them were enrolled in that program. So that to me is if, if you are serious about reaching everyone- Yeah ... then here's how you do it. Hmm. You know what it's similar to, funny enough? It's, it's similar to what I feel like they're doing with voting in America. Mm. Right? They are systematically making it harder and harder for people to vote, but basing it, like, the premise is, "No, no, no, it's super easy to vote." Hmm. "All you have to do is-" Show up.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
"All you have to do is ... All you have to do is-" Take the day off. "All you have to do is ... All you have to do ..." You know what I mean? It's like, get this ID. Oh, but this new type of ID needs this type of identification and- Hmm ... and then it's like, "Well, which ones do you accept?" "Oh, your, your gun one." "Oh, we take the gun one. NRA will work." "Oh, but this one doesn't work, and this one ..." Do you know what I mean? It should be five minutes. And then to your point ... Yeah, and more importantly, it's the trick of saying, "It's free." Mm-hmm. "You're free to enter." Mm-hmm. But then the process of coming in is not really free. Hmm. Do, do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's like the trick of the interns. Like, to be an intern you've got to be a pretty rich kid. I work for free. Yeah, but do you know how much you have to earn to work for free? Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Hmm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
And I feel like that's, that's, that's what you're tapping into. With the, with the childcare thing, is that- Well, it's the economic ... is that a similar ... No, no. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. There's a similar principle. Yeah. Is like, with the childcare thing, what do you think-
- TNTrevor Noah
I mean, it, it seems obvious. Some people would go ... And we've seen, uh, discussions around this, you know, privatization and shit. They'll be like, "Oh, the private sector should be dealing with this." Well, why is the government getting involved in childcare? Shouldn't just, you know, companies provide childcare? Wh- wh- why do you think it's important for the state to step in, for the, for the city to step in?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Well, look, wh- when the city and the state doesn't step in, companies have to put forward childcare benefits, childcare services. Why should that be a company's job?
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Y- you are seeing companies having to provide a service that should be provided by the city and the state.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I mean, quite literally, you have companies that have childcare on site. You have companies that are giving annual stipends for, you know, paying towards childcare. The point of this is that if we do not treat this as the social crisis that it is-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... it's, we are going to make ... We're going to pass this cost on, and this is actually a cost that we should be bearing at a city and a state level. And the average cost of childcare in New York City for s- one child is $22,500.
- TNTrevor Noah
But that's close to what you just said the-
- SPSpeaker
Average
- TNTrevor Noah
... earning, the average earning was for ... I mean, that's, that's insane.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
It is cheaper to send that same child 18 years later to the City University of New York than it is to find childcare for them.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
That's how expensive it is. And we often talk about delivering universal childcare in the language of how much it will cost and how difficult it will be-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... as if it doesn't already cost this
- 50:00 – 52:00
What universal childcare would actually look like
- ZMZohran Mamdani
city and state an immense amount today. In 2022, we lost $23 billion in economic activity because of the absence of universal childcare.
- TNTrevor Noah
E- explain how.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Because you had people leaving this city, leaving this state. After housing-
- TNTrevor Noah
Oh
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... the number one thing driving people out of this city, childcare.
- TNTrevor Noah
Whoa.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
They're going anywhere they can find childcare for cheaper. And it's not just people whose kids they can't get childcare for, it's also childcare workers who cannot live off of the average salary at a home-based setting of $10 an hour.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
People cannot live off of that. And we keep asking ourselves, why, you know, why, why, why is it so hard to raise a family in the city? It's like, look at the cost.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I was sitting on the M57, the slowest bus in Manhattan, a few months ago, and a city worker was seated behind me. She started speaking to me about how she had two kids. The only reason she could make it work here was because her 84-year-old grandmother would take care of those kids every single day.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
And she told me that when her 84-year-old grandmother has to go to the doctor or she feels sick, the only option this mother has is that she has to take a sick day from work.
- SPSpeaker
Take a day off. Mm-hmm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
'Cause she can't afford childcare. We are pushing people out of the city, and frankly, people are feeling it when they're making 40K a year. They're feeling it when they're making 100K. They're feeling it 200K, 'cause $22,500 is an immense amount of money after tax.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm-hmm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
And we could be providing this.
- SPSpeaker
Question based-
- TNTrevor Noah
So, so-
- SPSpeaker
This is a real question, real question based on the child-
- TNTrevor Noah
We're gonna run out of time.
- SPSpeaker
No, we-
- TNTrevor Noah
This is your last que-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, no, real question
- TNTrevor Noah
... choose your last question well.
- SPSpeaker
Yes. Based on, on childcare, what is this gonna look like, uh, like practically?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Do you know what I mean? What is, what does it mean?
- TNTrevor Noah
Zohran's gonna come look after your child.
- SPSpeaker
No, man. Come on. You see, you are now wasting my time.
- 52:00 – 54:00
Socialism, dignity, and what people really care about
- ZMZohran Mamdani
is building on the infrastructure we already have.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
And what that means is it's going to be something built out that includes both center-based care and home-based care, right? There are many New Yorkers who feel more comfortable sending their child to a neighbor who is providing childcare for a few children on that block. There are other New Yorkers who prefer sending their child to a childcare center. And we can look at universal pre-K, which we were talking about earlier, as a model for both how it took an immense cost burden off of the backs of working families, but also how it stood up an entire infrastructure, because this is the thing that's also missing in so much of city government, is a sense of urgency, of actually being able to scale something up. And that, to me, the commitment we've made, delivering childcare for New Yorkers from ages five down to six weeks of age. And so what we have right now is we have universal pre-K. We have 3-K in New York City, but it is broken. The first order of business is to fix 3-K, and then we look at 2-K, we look at 1-K. We look at delivering childcare for children right now that if their parents don't have the money or they don't have a family member, we see that those parents often leave.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I mean, 80% of New Yorkers with children under five cannot afford childcare in the city.
- TNTrevor Noah
80%.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
80%.
- TNTrevor Noah
I, I find myself wondering about labels a lot and how they limit our ability to think, you know, because your name, synonymous, socialist, and then people who are trying to be disparage you, communist, and ... But you see a lot, "Oh, this socialist, he's trying to turn America into ... This guy doesn't like..." And yet every time I hear you speak, you talk about how much money the thing will generate-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Hmm
- TNTrevor Noah
... for businesses, for people themselves, for co- Do you, do you ... When you think of how people process the label of socialism or the idea behind it, do you think they themselves have an understanding of what it actually means versus what they've been told it means? Do, do, do you get what I'm saying?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Yeah.
- 54:00 – 55:00
Why movements are built by teams not individuals
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I think as a, as a Muslim socialist, I'm familiar with bad PR. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs] It's-
- SPSpeaker
Good old MS.
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
You know, those damn MSes.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
It's, it's a long journey to explain. Um, but I think, you know, many people have caricatures in their head as to what it means.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I often turn to Dr. King to, to describe socialism. He said, "Call it democracy or call it democratic socialism. There must be a better distribution of wealth for all of God's children in this country."
- TNTrevor Noah
Hmm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
It comes back to dignity. It comes back to ensuring that whatever you need to live a dignified life, that you have that. You should not be priced out of a necessity.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
We're not talking about want or like.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
We're talking about need. You should not be priced out of, of, of being able to- Have a home to call your own, of being able to send your kid to school-
- TNTrevor Noah
Right, right
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... being able to ride the bus. And I've found actually that when you're speaking to New Yorkers one-to-one, they've actually had far fewer questions of how I describe my politics-
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... and far more
- 55:00 – 58:55
Why this conversation is not finished yet
- ZMZohran Mamdani
of does my politics include them. Do, are their struggles part of my focus? And, and I've found that there are many people who might describe themselves in a different way, but when I speak about what this would mean for New York City, they start to see themselves in that vision. And that's, I think, the key of this, is how is this a politics that actually reflects the struggles of working people?
- TNTrevor Noah
Do you think your politics and your campaign connected with people because you actually connected with people?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I, I think a lot of it also had to do with the incredible team I had around me.
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
To be honest, I, I, I ... Someone was asking me the other day about people trying to make videos the way that we made videos. Uh, and I was saying that part of it is it, it misunderstands that it's not as much who's in front of the camera, it's also who's behind the camera.
- TNTrevor Noah
Mm.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
You can see a distinct moment-
- TNTrevor Noah
Yeah
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... in the campaign when I stopped making the videos. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
[laughs]
- ZMZohran Mamdani
It's, it's the moment when the campaign became legitimate.
- TNTrevor Noah
Right.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Right? [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
Right.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
Um, and I, and I think that that, that losing sight of the collective and thinking it's all about the individual, it means you lose sight of how this campaign was built.
- TNTrevor Noah
All right. Your team is telling us we gotta wrap up. W- do you promise-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
We didn't even talk about Mzansi
- TNTrevor Noah
... th- that's why I'm saying do you promise to come back? Make, let, give, give me one. That's the only promise I want. Dave wants ambulances.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I promise. I, I promise to come back. [laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
You promise to come back?
- ZMZohran Mamdani
I promise.
- TNTrevor Noah
You don't have to, by the way.
- ZMZohran Mamdani
[laughs]
- TNTrevor Noah
You can say no, and then I don't-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
This, look-
- TNTrevor Noah
Then I don't have the promise
- ZMZohran Mamdani
... this is my only way.
- TNTrevor Noah
No, no. Then I don't have the promise-
- ZMZohran Mamdani
No
- TNTrevor Noah
... and I don't mind. I just-
Episode duration: 58:56
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