Zohran Mamdani: New York's New Mayor Pops In

Trevor Noah 0:00 [upbeat music] This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Eat well for less. [upbeat music] God bless. How you doing, man? Good to see you. Congratulations, by the way. Thank you very much. What did he win? Very much. Huh? He won an all-expenses-paid trip- Almost the family- To, to the Upper East Side. Yeah. [laughs] All-expenses-paid trip to the Upper East Side. Call a number. [laughs] What, what number mayor are you, by the way? They're saying it's 112. No ways. Yeah. Peaches and Cream. [laughs] Ha, ha. What? I see what you did there. They should sing at your inauguration. [laughs] Do, do, do, do. Uh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. You know what's stuck in my head? What? Peaches and Cream? Kanda. [laughs] Kanda. Ay, Kanda. Ay, Kanda. And oh yeah, I made it. Kanda. Yes. [laughs] Kanda. That was a vibe, man. That was me. We made, we made Sound City top 10- That was me the whole- ... songs of the week You don't even understand the whole- Top 10. There's another one too. It's like- Who's that other guy? You, you- Hab. You aged... Hab, yeah. Yeah, I grew up with him. Where is he? He's in Kampala. Oh, just- Has he reached out to you? Yeah, yeah, no, I'm in touch with him. He's a close friend. When, when you won, did H- U- H-U-D say, "You did it"? [laughs] We were like, is it H-A-B or is it Hab? H-A-B. [laughs] It is H-A-B, right? Yeah, it says- So it's H-A- Hab, Hab. Sorry, I thought you were asking me to spell. No, I didn't know if it's- Yeah, yeah. Hab ... if it's... We were like, 'cause it was- [laughs] He knows ... all in caps. [laughs] Then we were like, is this, is it Hab or is it H-A-B? Did, did Hab text you and go, "How did you convince them?" [laughs] [laughs] 'Cause I'm sure Hab remembers rolling with you, trying to go to a radio station- Hab, Hab remembers ... in Kampala trying to get your song played. And then he was like, "You couldn't convince one station manager in Kampala." [laughs] How did you do this? "The whole of New York. How?" [laughs] You know the reason his name is Hab? Tell me. Was, if we're off the record or off camera. Nothing is off the- Uh- Nothing's off the record. Okay. Don't say anything- Zohran expresses- [laughs] ... when the red light is on. It's like- [laughs] Nothing is... Let me tell you the first

Trevor Noah 2:00 thing. Can I tell you, I'll give you a tip- [laughs] Give it to me ... that I learned v- like, very early on with The Daily Show and everything. Yeah. Nothing is off the record. And they're never gonna know. N- no. [laughs] When you, if you, when you walk out the room- That's what they never find out ... let me explain. Let me explain. Let me explain. When you walk out... This has always fascinated me in America- Yeah. Yeah ... is when I'll see people. Mm-hmm. Like, some footage will come out from 20 years ago or something- Kanda ... and it'll be something that was sort of behind the scenes. Oh, sorry. Sorry, sorry. No, not Kanda, man. [laughs] Sorry. [laughs] The, the, remember the, the ninjas who were dancing? [laughs] That middle ninja. That was the other video, though. What would I know? Yes, yes. [laughs] That was that one. So- You know, my regret is that my dad dressed up as a ninja- You're lying ... for that video. Nah. And the director of the video taped over that part. No. No, man. Uh-uh. So it's gone. That middle ninja stole the show, though. [laughs] Yeah, there was one, there was one ninja in one of the- Too much swag for a ninja. I was like, "This one, this ninja's Black." [laughs] "This is a Black ninja." [laughs] Oh, man. Yeah, tell me about this thing about America, 'cause I'm trying to learn- No, no, no ... as much as I can. So, yeah, so what I was saying is, like, I was always intrigued by how people would trust just, like, a handshake agreement everywhere. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. People are like, "Oh, this is off the record," but there's a camera rolling- Mm-hmm ... and the sound recording. Mm-hmm. And we're like, "This is off the record," and then 10 years later or five years later or even a day later, the clip comes out, and then people are like, "But, but that was behind the scenes." You're like, "Yes, there's a camera." Mm. [laughs] When you're wearing a microphone- Mm-hmm ... when there's a microphone, when there's a camera- Mm ... it's somewhere. Mm, 'cause the editor's like, "I'm not part of your agreement." It's somewhere. Remember grab them by the pussy? I wasn't there, but- [laughs] Why are you saying, "Do I remember?" Zoran, please, man. [laughs] I'm leaving this between you guys. The way he said, "Do you remember?" You're right, actually. I shouldn't have done... It made it seem like- I accept your apology. Yeah, I apologize. Yeah. But my point is that was all off camera. Hmm. You know who also owes us an apology? That was all off camera. Who? The editor that edited Zoran's dad out of the Kanda. [laughs] I still can't believe he recorded- [laughs] But that's how you... Zohran- Yes ... I think it was definitely

Trevor Noah 4:00 you when you were- Oh, by the way, this is a, this is a special, like, this is... I was like, how do, how do we make this time special with you? And I thought to myself, you've got Zohran Mamdani on the podcast. But I was like, how many, you know how many tie-ins we have in our lives, right? So born in Africa, born in Africa, then, uh, Ugandan, right? Born in Uganda. Then I was like, do you know how many Ugandans I have in my life? In my head I thought to myself, I was like, I collect Ugandans. Then I was like, but you can't say that. Don't say it like that. Also. No. Say it anyway. No, no, no. They don't collect ones. But I, no, no, I'm saying I wasn't gonna say it. [laughs] This is off the record. [laughs] This is off the record. Okay. I'm letting you know- The thought process ... this is in my head. This is off the record. Yeah. So you can't use it against me. [laughs] So then I was like, "I collect Ugandans." Then I was like, but you can't say it like that, so you gotta be like, "I'm in... I have a lot of U..." I don't know how this happened. Mm-hmm. I have a lot of Ugandan friends in my life, like, a lot of Ugandan friends. Mm. You say it like it's a- Like a what? ... it's a problem. No, no, no. You made it sound like a problem, Zohran. [laughs] Don't put that on me. See how it feels like- Don't put that on me ... when someone puts you in a scene that you're not in You owe me an apology. I'll take my apology now. Which camera? Not to me. No. [laughs] This is not about them. The deposition one. This is straight to me. [laughs] Straight to me. I'll take my apologies, Zohran. I apologize. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you very much. So- [laughs] ... then I was like, I'm just gonna bring them all in. So I was like, my, my best friend, who's Indian, my other best friend, who's Ugandan and South African. Ah. They've even got microphones. Let's go. They can just throw things in. Come on. [laughs] Where, where in Uganda, by the way? Kampala. Okay. That's where I was born. Where were you born in Kampala? Mogadishu. Okay. In Sambeya Hospital. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yes. But I moved to South Africa, like you. I can, I can hear. Yeah. And to New York, like you. You guys hated that place, huh? What? [laughs] Which place, South Africa or Uganda? Two places before you were like, "Uh-uh. Uh-uh." [laughs] It actually is a crazy story. Think about it. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. You guys both came from Uganda. Yes. I mean, you're not helpful to me because my parents are like, "I mean, look at what Zohran's done." [laughs] [laughs] I'm

Trevor Noah 6:00 sorry, man. I'm sorry. [laughs] He's raised the ceiling for what's possible. I mean, like, uh- They thought you had achieved. Yes. [laughs] And now they're like, "Wait, you could have done this. This is what you could have done." How many people are shock- Eugene and I were talking about that the whole day. Like-

Zohran Mamdani 6:15 Hmm

Trevor Noah 6:15 ... there's gotta be a section of people in your life who are still shocked at the idea of you being the mayor of arguably-

Zohran Mamdani 6:23 H-A-B is one of them

Trevor Noah 6:23 ... the most important cities in the wo- H-A-B.

Zohran Mamdani 6:27 Oh, H-A-B.

Trevor Noah 6:28 Yeah, hub, not hab.

Zohran Mamdani 6:29 Oh.

Trevor Noah 6:30 Different hub. Hab, think of hab.

Zohran Mamdani 6:32 Oh, not the, oh, but hab.

Trevor Noah 6:32 No, but, but there must be, like, genuinely, at, just on, like, a personal level, there must be a ton of people out there who go, they just know you as Zohran.

Zohran Mamdani 6:41 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 6:42 And then now you are Zohran Mamdani, the m- next mayor of New York City.

Zohran Mamdani 6:46 Yeah. I mean, it's, it's true, not just in Kampala, but also here in New York City. I mean, there are people I would play on our rec soccer team with, and I was just reading this article today about, um,

Zohran Mamdani 7:01 about a lot of their reactions and reflections. And-

Trevor Noah 7:03 Do you still play with them?

Zohran Mamdani 7:04 I haven't in a while.

Trevor Noah 7:05 Why not? I saw you still have the skills, by the way.

Zohran Mamdani 7:07 [laughs] It's-

Trevor Noah 7:08 I was very impressed

Zohran Mamdani 7:08 ... highly edited. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 7:10 No, no, no, no. Those, you can't edit those skills.

Zohran Mamdani 7:11 There are a lot of-

Trevor Noah 7:12 No, no, no, you're lying

Zohran Mamdani 7:12 ... a lot of edits.

Trevor Noah 7:12 You can't, no, you can't edit those skills. You, you, like you play, what position did you play?

Zohran Mamdani 7:16 I have the classic journey of someone who played up top and then lost all of their speed and now plays at left back. [laughs] That's, that's where I am.

Trevor Noah 7:24 I started my journey at left back.

Zohran Mamdani 7:26 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 7:26 You know when-

Zohran Mamdani 7:27 That's, I, I-

Trevor Noah 7:27 You know when people say-

Zohran Mamdani 7:28 It is ending

Trevor Noah 7:28 ... you know when people say I fell off to your position?

Zohran Mamdani 7:32 Yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 7:33 [laughs] Yeah, I, I used to be good and then now I play where you play all the time.

Zohran Mamdani 7:37 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 7:38 That's, that's me, Trevor. That's me. I, I genuinely love that for you, man. I just like-

Zohran Mamdani 7:44 Thank you

Trevor Noah 7:44 ... how much, how much has your life changed now? Like, is it, and I don't know if this is just anecdotal, but we were chatting with Ryan about this. We were going, it feels like your social media has gotten a little more serious now. Which makes sense-

Zohran Mamdani 7:57 Yeah

Trevor Noah 7:57 ... but I don't know if that's just how it looks online. Do you, do you feel like a, a more serious shift in your life?

Zohran Mamdani 8:03 I think, I don't feel burdened by it.

Trevor Noah 8:06 Hmm.

Zohran Mamdani 8:06 I feel like sometimes that's implicit in the sense of the seriousness. It's, you can both take it for the weight that it has and also not lose sight of the fact that it's an incredible opportunity.

Trevor Noah 8:17 Right.

Zohran Mamdani 8:18 And I think for me, the idea that it's my job to represent this city that I love, and that my job means I get to speak to New Yorkers and go across the five boroughs and see people in their own lives, it's amazing. Um, and then there's also, there are parts of it that are absurd now. You know, like I told my landlord I was moving out, um, and, [laughs] and she, she was, you know, jokingly saying, you know, "Make sure you clean up the apartment. If you don't, I know where you're moving to." [laughs]

Trevor Noah 8:50 [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 8:51 And I remembered, oh yeah, everybody knows.

Trevor Noah 8:53 Yeah, everyone knows everything about you.

Zohran Mamdani 8:54 Everybody knows everything.

Trevor Noah 8:54 Like, there's, there's pre, this is, this is your life.

Zohran Mamdani 8:57 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 8:58 Forevermore, this is,

Trevor Noah 9:00 this is your life.

Zohran Mamdani 9:00 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 9:01 It'll never be the same after this moment.

Zohran Mamdani 9:02 It won't. It won't. But I think that's, what I love though is that you learn different parts of the city because of what your life is like now.

Trevor Noah 9:10 Hmm.

Zohran Mamdani 9:11 You know, I think, like, for my wife and I, we, going out at night, like going for a walk at night-

Trevor Noah 9:18 Yeah

Zohran Mamdani 9:18 ... it has a different kind of meaning now because it's where we can find a little bit of anonymity, right? And so you start to appreciate the city at an hour that you otherwise wouldn't have gone before because you didn't have to make that kind of a decision.

Trevor Noah 9:28 Oh, okay. Do you have a night voice?

Zohran Mamdani 9:31 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 9:31 It would be, "I'm Zohran. I-"

Zohran Mamdani 9:34 You can't still be Zohran with a night voice.

Trevor Noah 9:35 Oh, oh. Who?

Zohran Mamdani 9:38 Mr. Cardamom.

Trevor Noah 9:39 Yes, yes.

Zohran Mamdani 9:41 [laughs] Mayor Cardamom.

Trevor Noah 9:42 Mayor Cardamom.

Zohran Mamdani 9:42 Mayor Cardamom to you. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 9:44 When the, when the nights of New York get rough and Zohran can't do it, I'm here.

Zohran Mamdani 9:49 Hey, that's what I'm talking about. Yes.

Trevor Noah 9:53 [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 9:53 That's it.

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Zohran Mamdani 12:53 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 12:53 All right, so I, I know we don't have a lot of time with you, so I, I, I wanna ... I spent a lot of time thinking about this. I was like, "You're a very busy person now, and, you know, you're doing all these things." And I was trying to think, if somebody was watching this episode, what would they hope to get from the conversation? There were only three things that really, really stuck out for me, like, three, three larger ideas. One was how you see the future of New York City, how you wanna build it, how you wanna change it, w- what you wanna improve, what you think the challenges will be, et cetera. It's like the job-job part of it. Uh, the second part of it is the human being.

Zohran Mamdani 13:22 Mm.

Trevor Noah 13:23 And the reason I say that is because in everything that I've seen of yours, genuinely, i- it's, it's either, like, caricatures of people who hate you-

Zohran Mamdani 13:32 Mm

Trevor Noah 13:32 ... or just, like, pieces about what you wanna do. But people sort of don't know you you. And I, I, I think a lot of people would, would like to know who the human being is-

Zohran Mamdani 13:41 Yeah

Trevor Noah 13:41 ... behind some of these ideas. And then the last part is just, like, random shit that we'll talk about, like, 'cause you're also, like, a pers- You see, like now, you, you did a joke with us. I think you're the first politician I know who's ever told me, like, a joke. Maybe Obama was.

Zohran Mamdani 13:55 Mm.

Trevor Noah 13:55 The first time where I was like, "Oh, this person actually knows humor."

Zohran Mamdani 13:58 Mm.

Trevor Noah 13:58 Do you know what I mean?

Zohran Mamdani 13:59 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 13:59 But

Trevor Noah 14:00 you're just, like, a, like, a dude. You're just, like, a guy.

Zohran Mamdani 14:04 Just a guy.

Trevor Noah 14:05 He is. [laughs] At night. [laughs] He's Karate Man. [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 14:09 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 14:11 Oh, man. So let's ... Okay, let's talk about New York.

Zohran Mamdani 14:14 Wait, hold on. Where are you from?

Trevor Noah 14:16 South Africa.

Zohran Mamdani 14:17 Where in South Africa?

Trevor Noah 14:18 Born in Pretoria-

Zohran Mamdani 14:19 Okay

Trevor Noah 14:19 ... but now living in Johannesburg. Does this count against our time, by the way?

Zohran Mamdani 14:22 Sorry. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 14:23 [laughs] You know I love you, Eugene.

Zohran Mamdani 14:24 It's all right. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 14:25 I just wanna know if this counts against our time. [laughs] Yes, it does.

Zohran Mamdani 14:27 Wait.

Trevor Noah 14:27 What did you say? Does this count against our time? No, before that. You know I love you, Eugene. [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 14:40 You finally got it.

Trevor Noah 14:42 [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 14:42 You finally got it.

Trevor Noah 14:43 Thank you.

Zohran Mamdani 14:43 How many podcast episodes did this take?

Trevor Noah 14:46 50.

Zohran Mamdani 14:46 Huh?

Trevor Noah 14:46 Thank you.

Zohran Mamdani 14:48 You are loved.

Trevor Noah 14:49 Thank you.

Zohran Mamdani 14:49 You are, you are seen.

Trevor Noah 14:51 Thank you.

Zohran Mamdani 14:53 You are enough.

Trevor Noah 14:54 [laughs] [claps] [sighs] Is this what it took? So- Is this- Come on. Jo- Johannesburg-

Zohran Mamdani 15:00 Okay

Trevor Noah 15:00 ... uh, by way of Pretoria, South Africa.

Zohran Mamdani 15:02 Johannesburg by way of Pretoria, South Africa.

Trevor Noah 15:03 Jose, stand up. Come on. Okay. Yeah, yeah. You, you know, you know this.

Zohran Mamdani 15:05 Come on.

Trevor Noah 15:05 You know this. So let's talk about New York, and then, and then we'll go, we'll go through your life. Sorry, Eugene. Sorry.

Zohran Mamdani 15:09 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 15:09 'Cause now they're gonna be like, "You've run out of time."

Zohran Mamdani 15:11 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 15:11 And then I'll be like, "Some of that time was taken by Eugene just ... " You know what we can even do? We can edit you in saying things about your life.

Zohran Mamdani 15:17 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 15:17 We just ... We'll ... When you leave-

Zohran Mamdani 15:19 Yeah, that'd be-

Trevor Noah 15:19 ... you, you're just gonna sit here and just be like, "And then I ... "

Zohran Mamdani 15:22 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 15:22 And we'll put that in.

Zohran Mamdani 15:23 And we'll call Ryan to s- to double.

Trevor Noah 15:24 Yeah. And then we'll put a stunt double in.

Zohran Mamdani 15:25 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 15:25 Ryan, you'll be Zohran's stunt double.

Zohran Mamdani 15:27 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 15:27 And then you must just, like ...

Zohran Mamdani 15:28 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 15:29 Yeah. But anyway, so le- let's, let's ...

Zohran Mamdani 15:31 [laughs] Sorry.

Trevor Noah 15:32 No, you're safe. Um, actually, run us through the process, right? Um, w- like, what's, what's, what are the orders of business that you're, that you're doing right now? Like, let's, let's, let's go from-

Zohran Mamdani 15:41 Hm

Trevor Noah 15:41 ... the shortest term, and let's build out as, as, as, as-

Zohran Mamdani 15:44 Sounds good

Trevor Noah 15:44 ... your, your job as mayor. So what are you doing right now?

Zohran Mamdani 15:46 Right now is the transition period.

Trevor Noah 15:47 Okay.

Zohran Mamdani 15:48 So right now is the time where we are vetting applicants. We're making hiring decisions. We're building out the team. So it's this ... It's, it's a bit of a strange period, because everyone knows about the election.

Trevor Noah 16:00 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 16:00 Everyone knows about January 1st, and then you have these two months in between. And so typically in these two months, it's a lot of kind of pomp and pageantry.

Trevor Noah 16:07 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 16:08 We want to get ahead of January 1st.

Trevor Noah 16:10 Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 16:11 We want to make the decisions and the appointments in advance of January 1st. And what this also means is we wanna build that team.

Trevor Noah 16:17 Okay.

Zohran Mamdani 16:18 So, so far we have made a few decisions of first deputy mayor, you know, chief of staff, uh, police commissioner, and then in the next few weeks, we have to start filling out additional top positions.

Trevor Noah 16:31 What, what do you, what do you base that on when you, when you're picking that? And, uh, the reason I ask this is because you're such a unique candidate, right? So if you had come through the, the regular pipeline of, oh, establishment, establishment-

Zohran Mamdani 16:43 Mm

Trevor Noah 16:43 ... I almost feel like it would've been pre-picked for you in a weird way.

Zohran Mamdani 16:46 It would've been who you knew.

Trevor Noah 16:47 Yeah, 'cause we always see that happen, right?

Zohran Mamdani 16:49 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 16:49 It's like when Hillary Clinton was running-

Zohran Mamdani 16:51 Yeah

Trevor Noah 16:51 ... then you'd be like, "The person she's gonna pick is the person who used to be the person who used to be the person."

Zohran Mamdani 16:56 Mm.

Trevor Noah 16:56 You're like, "Oh, it's all, like, the same team."

Zohran Mamdani 16:58 Mm.

Trevor Noah 16:58 And then you just shift around

Trevor Noah 17:00 who's where. You get what I'm saying?

Zohran Mamdani 17:01 No, and I, and I, I-

Trevor Noah 17:02 Yours, yours is, is, is different though. So how do you pick, and where do you pick?

Zohran Mamdani 17:05 I think it, it's, it's on an assessment of the work that people have done. And it's quite liberating actually to come into this position and not have to owe favors. You know?

Trevor Noah 17:13 Yeah. Oh, damn.

Zohran Mamdani 17:14 Not, not, not be, like-

Trevor Noah 17:15 Unburdened. You-

Zohran Mamdani 17:16 You're just actually making decisions based on-

Trevor Noah 17:17 Mm

Zohran Mamdani 17:17 ... do you think this person can do the job? How can they show you that they've already done the job? And at ... You're looking for this combination of a fluency-

Trevor Noah 17:25 Yeah

Zohran Mamdani 17:25 ... with what it looks like to work within government, and an imagination that is unburdened by the difficulties of working within that government.

Trevor Noah 17:33 Okay.

Zohran Mamdani 17:34 Right? So sometimes you would think that the more time you spend in government, the less ambitious you become about what you can do within government.

Trevor Noah 17:40 Yeah, yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 17:41 But one of the reasons that I hired Dean Fuleihan to be my first deputy mayor, he had served 47 years in, working in government at the city and the state level, is the first time we sat down for adni chai at Kahwa House, he, he told me about how he transformed-

Trevor Noah 17:56 Adni chai, like the drink?

Zohran Mamdani 17:57 Like the drink.

Trevor Noah 17:58 Okay. Okay.

Zohran Mamdani 17:58 You ever had adni chai?

Trevor Noah 17:58 Just making sure. I ... Ryan, have I had it? I'm assuming. Variations of it.

Zohran Mamdani 18:03 I'm sure the closest Indian's asked.

Trevor Noah 18:03 I've had variations of it. [laughs] No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. The closest Indian- I'm right here. The closest In- I'm right here. Yeah, but you weren't with me drinking. [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 18:09 You owe-

Trevor Noah 18:10 He monitors-

Zohran Mamdani 18:11 You owe Zohran an apology

Trevor Noah 18:11 ... he monitors my- Give me an apology.

Zohran Mamdani 18:13 You owe- I apologize. Like, I accept.

Trevor Noah 18:16 Sharp

Zohran Mamdani 18:17 But yes, I've had chai.

Trevor Noah 18:18 Sharp, sharp. Yes. [laughs] Sharp, sharp. Sharp, sharp. So, so yeah, so you were sitting down having chai.

Zohran Mamdani 18:24 And he talked about how he transformed the culture of the Office of Management and Budget from a culture of no to a culture of how.

Trevor Noah 18:33 Mm-hmm. Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 18:34 And to me, that is an example of what we're trying to do with government. Because when you say you have an ambitious policy proposal, you wanna deliver universal childcare, you wanna make buses fast and free, there will be so many people you can find who can tell you it's impossible to do that.

Trevor Noah 18:46 Right.

Zohran Mamdani 18:46 And the people you're actually looking for are not the ones who tell you it's easy, they're the ones who tell you it's difficult, and here's how they're actually gonna do it.

Trevor Noah 18:52 So you're interviewing people for the job, or you're picking people for the job-

Zohran Mamdani 18:56 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 18:56 ... and you're trying to find a balance between the people who've shown that they can

Trevor Noah 19:00 do it. But then I'm assuming you're also interviewing people who, like you, are new to a position.

Zohran Mamdani 19:04 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 19:04 'Cause that's, that's the weird paradox, right?

Zohran Mamdani 19:06 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 19:06 You've never been mayor of New York, and now you're going to be mayor of New York. So how do you then judge a person who's never done the job? Like, what, what are you looking for in those people where you go, "Hey, you haven't done this, but I think you can"?

Zohran Mamdani 19:17 Vision.

Trevor Noah 19:18 Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 19:18 You, you're, you're looking to hear from them about how they would actually transform the position-

Trevor Noah 19:23 Yeah

Zohran Mamdani 19:23 ... that you're asking them about. There, there, there's a real temptation, especially when you're looking at a job of this scale, and you're looking at ... You know, we're talking about positions that oversee-

Trevor Noah 19:31 Yeah

Zohran Mamdani 19:31 ... agencies of tens of thousands of people. There's a temptation to say, "I'm just going to keep the trains running on time."

Trevor Noah 19:37 Mm-hmm. Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 19:37 But that's not enough. That's not enough in a city that's the most expensive in the United States of America. It's not enough in a city where one in four people live in poverty. You have to both be able to continue to operate things as they are and push them forward to delivering the city we deserve.

Trevor Noah 19:52 Why do you think, or do you think ... 'Cause I mean, I do, so I don't wanna bias you. But, like, it feels like particularly in America, and maybe

Trevor Noah 20:00 other parts of the world, it feels like conservatives have been pretty good at imagining and hoping. And then liberals or progressives or however people wanna, you know-

Zohran Mamdani 20:12 Yeah

Trevor Noah 20:12 ... left side of the spectrum, have sort of adopted this idea of like, "Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, it, it, it, it w- let's just keep it working well and y- you can't really change much. You can't ... " I, like, do you know how many interviews of yours I've watched where people say, "Zohran, now I agree with your politics. I, I love what you're saying, but I just don't know that we can do it. I just, I just don't think you'll be able to get it done. I just don't." But not once have I seen somebody interviewing, like Trump-

Zohran Mamdani 20:38 Yeah

Trevor Noah 20:38 ... for instance, on a right wing platform go like, "Ah, dog, I don't know about that wall. I don't know, man. That's a big ass wall. How are you gonna do it?"

Zohran Mamdani 20:45 I, I-

Trevor Noah 20:45 Do, do you get what I'm saying?

Zohran Mamdani 20:46 I, I do. I think it's, it's ... You have people ... It seems like Republicans have a limitless imagination.

Trevor Noah 20:52 Yeah. Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 20:53 And as Democrats, we're constructing an ever lowering ceiling of possibility. It's, it's right here.

Trevor Noah 20:59 Wow. Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 20:59 You know? And we are robbing ourselves of ambition and imagination, and we're telling people that their choice is between settling or sacrifice, and neither of these are enough. You have to have an affirmative vision of how life can be better than this, because this life already is suffocating people.

Trevor Noah 21:18 I sometimes think it's because of the decline of religion on the left.

Zohran Mamdani 21:23 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 21:23 Tell us more. I, I could pro- I, I'm ... Look, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And you know y- you will tell me if you- [laughs] Wait. There's one thing. [laughs] I will tell you. [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 21:33 Hello?

Trevor Noah 21:33 Is when I'm wrong.

Zohran Mamdani 21:34 Am I allowed to speak?

Trevor Noah 21:36 [laughs] Yeah. I like that you say that into a microphone- [laughs] ... as if the microphone wasn't placed there for the possibility that you may speak. [laughs] Am I allowed to speak? You literally look ... You know what you look like right now? You look like somebody at those, like, town halls- [laughs] Yeah ... where they came from the crowd, and then they don't know how anything works. Or a checker who's about to make an announcement. But let me, let me say this point, and then, yes. [laughs] Let me say ... So, so, so this is the thing-

Zohran Mamdani 21:55 Before you say this point, though.

Trevor Noah 21:56 Okay.

Zohran Mamdani 21:57 Did you steal this point from me?

Trevor Noah 22:00 There's, there's a distinct possibility.

Zohran Mamdani 22:01 Okay, okay.

Trevor Noah 22:02 As friends, we all-

Zohran Mamdani 22:02 Okay. No, no, continue. Continue.

Trevor Noah 22:04 As friends- [laughs] I mean, I don't know how you are with your friends. Yeah. But if my friend has a great idea-

Zohran Mamdani 22:09 It's mine

Trevor Noah 22:10 ... it becomes a part of my- [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 22:11 Yeah

Trevor Noah 22:11 ... my thinking. This, this point might have come by way of a friendship Tupperware. That's exactly what it is. And when it was open, no one was taking responsibility for what's inside. Preach, Eugene. Preach. Tell people about these relationship Tupperwares. [laughs] Huh? Instead of focusing on where the Tupperware ends up, you should focus on the fact that your friend took the meal that was inside the Tupperware- And enjoyed it ... and enjoyed it. And shared it.

Zohran Mamdani 22:33 But he may return it with another meal inside.

Trevor Noah 22:36 Yeah. That's true. That's true. Inshallah. Many of the ideas that you have came from me. And some of that ...

Zohran Mamdani 22:40 Which idea of yours did I ... No. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 22:43 [laughs] So the, the owner of the idea, to me- [laughs] The owner of the idea is not important. Oh, man. I think good ideas l- should live beyond people. [laughs] But if you think about religion and-

Zohran Mamdani 22:59 Mm

Trevor Noah 22:59 ... and how

Trevor Noah 23:00 in most parts of the world-

Zohran Mamdani 23:01 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 23:02 ... religion is declining.

Zohran Mamdani 23:04 Mm.

Trevor Noah 23:04 But it's declining in areas where people are particularly left-leaning or progressive or ... You know what I mean? You see it- I don't think religion is declining. I think faith is declining. Yeah. Well, but the two have been combined for a long time. Yeah, yeah. Right? Absolutely, yeah. And one of the things that, like, faith requires of you- Mm-hmm ... is the ability to believe that this current state that you're in is not the end. Mm-hmm. There is a possibility that something can be greater. 100%. And even though you cannot see it- Yeah ... you believe that it can hap- Yes. It requires literally everything that you just said. Mm. Do, do you know what I mean?

Zohran Mamdani 23:33 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 23:33 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 23:33 And, and I think that I've found over the course of the campaign that it's often in houses of worship where New Yorkers still have that trust.

Trevor Noah 23:43 Really?

Zohran Mamdani 23:44 Still have that faith.

Trevor Noah 23:45 Interesting. Mm-hmm.

Zohran Mamdani 23:46 And it's, by and large, lost when it comes to politics. You know, I mean, there are so many people who look at politics as irrelevant to their material struggles on a day-to-day basis, and part of that is because of their own experiences

Zohran Mamdani 24:00 of believing in politicians who have not delivered, and thinking that the rational decision is to take as much space as you can.

Trevor Noah 24:07 Got it. How, how do you, how do you find, uh ... Oh, just real quick. Yeah. I just wanna know, like, this is a, this is a difficult one, like, with delivery How do you think the public should judge a politician's delivery or lack thereof? Because some things that people set out to do won't be achieved because that's how life is.

Zohran Mamdani 24:24 Mm.

Trevor Noah 24:24 You aim for something and you fail, right? And then some are because of regulation or kickbacks or, you know, corporations or lobbyists or-

Zohran Mamdani 24:34 Mm.

Trevor Noah 24:34 So s- s- one part of it is because of, like, a mud and a sludge.

Zohran Mamdani 24:37 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 24:37 And then the other one is because just life is like that. So how, how would you like people to judge you when you're in the mayorship and go, "All right, Zohran, this thing you did achieve, so that's one side. But for the things that you, you didn't," like, how would you want people to judge your s- your failures, which are inevitable in anything that people do?

Zohran Mamdani 24:56 We, we built a campaign around three policy commitments.

Trevor Noah 25:00 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 25:00 Freezing the rent for rent-stabilized tenants, making the slowest buses in America fast and free, delivering universal childcare. We have to deliver these things.

Trevor Noah 25:11 Okay.

Zohran Mamdani 25:12 And-

Trevor Noah 25:12 That's non-negotiable

Zohran Mamdani 25:13 ... to, to me, I think it's every day I'm going to wake up pushing these three things forward. And there's no question there are ... This is incredibly difficult work. There are things you will try and you will fail. I think what, what frustrates so many is that there are so many things where it looks like someone is not even trying.

Trevor Noah 25:33 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 25:33 They are just admitting defeat from the beginning.

Trevor Noah 25:36 Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 25:37 You know, they are describing something as unrealistic or impossible. Um, Madiba said, "It's always seems impossible until it's done."

Trevor Noah 25:45 Nelson Mandela-

Zohran Mamdani 25:46 Right

Trevor Noah 25:46 ... for those who don't know. [laughs]

Speaker 25:47 Can I ask a question?

Trevor Noah 25:48 You're gonna say Nelson Mandela took that from you as well.

Speaker 25:50 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 25:51 I know how you work. I know the shit that you were gonna say. He's gonna be like, "Where did he get that idea? Where did he get that idea?"

Speaker 25:58 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 25:58 Who was in prison with him?

Trevor Noah 26:00 Mister O- I'm the only person with ideas. Please, share some with us, Dave.

Speaker 26:04 [laughs] Before you say something, I'd like to say it probably wasn't his idea, 'cause he's been quiet. When you started speaking- He was, yes ... he didn't say anything after that. The, the ti- the title was my idea. You know when you get those movies that have the same title, but it's a different movie? The title was my idea, but the-

Trevor Noah 26:17 Like the one where the ... Oh, no, never mind.

Speaker 26:19 Okay. So now, uh, Mayor Elect Mamdani, do you know your powers? You know, like, 'cause you ran for mayor, but-

Zohran Mamdani 26:29 Mm-hmm

Speaker 26:29 ... at some point there's like, you have powers, certain powers.

Zohran Mamdani 26:32 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 26:33 So do you know them all? Is- do they give you, like, a book, "These, these are your actual powers"?

Zohran Mamdani 26:37 They, they don't give you a book.

Speaker 26:39 Do, do, do ... No, I'm-

Zohran Mamdani 26:40 But-

Speaker 26:40 I'm saying ... You know what I mean. Like-

Zohran Mamdani 26:41 No, I, I, I, I do. I have, I have, um, definitely an awareness of, of what power this jobs comes with.

Speaker 26:48 Mm-hmm.

Zohran Mamdani 26:48 I'll give you an example on the three policies I was speaking of. The first one, freezing the rent for rent-stabilized tenants, city of eight and a half million people, about two and a half million live in housing called rent-stabilized housing.

Trevor Noah 27:00 Okay.

Zohran Mamdani 27:00 Right?

Trevor Noah 27:01 And what does that mean? Just because I-

Zohran Mamdani 27:02 Mm

Trevor Noah 27:02 ... I see people conflate-

Zohran Mamdani 27:03 Yeah

Trevor Noah 27:04 ... stabilized versus-

Zohran Mamdani 27:05 C- re- rent control is a very small-

Trevor Noah 27:07 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Zohran Mamdani 27:07 ... proportion.

Trevor Noah 27:08 So help us understand.

Zohran Mamdani 27:08 We're talking about rent-stabilized.

Trevor Noah 27:09 What is rent-stabilized? What does that mean?

Zohran Mamdani 27:10 Rent-stabilized basically applies to half of all tenants in New York City.

Trevor Noah 27:13 Okay.

Zohran Mamdani 27:14 And it means that their rent, whether it will increase or stay the same, is determined by a board called the Rent Guidelines Board.

Trevor Noah 27:21 Okay.

Zohran Mamdani 27:21 The board is composed of nine appointees, all of whom are appointed by the mayor.

Trevor Noah 27:26 Yes.

Speaker 27:26 Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 27:26 So we have seen this board freeze the rent in the past. We have seen this board raise the rent like it has under Eric Adams more than 12%.

Speaker 27:34 No.

Zohran Mamdani 27:34 So when I talk about freezing the rent, I'm talking about this board composed of mayoral appointees finally giving tenants the relief that they deserve.

Trevor Noah 27:41 Okay.

Speaker 27:41 So that-

Trevor Noah 27:42 On the-

Speaker 27:42 Sorry, just to clear that up.

Zohran Mamdani 27:43 Yeah.

Speaker 27:43 So that is like ... Do, do you know what I'm ... Do you know the question? 'Cause sometimes when it comes to politics-

Zohran Mamdani 27:48 Mm

Speaker 27:48 ... people will be like, you know, you vote the person in, then later on it's like, "No, technically, I didn't have that power bec-", you know, you know that kind of thing.

Zohran Mamdani 27:55 No, people try to obfuscate what their responsibility is.

Speaker 27:58 Yeah, exactly.

Zohran Mamdani 27:59 And I think the, the, the second and

Zohran Mamdani 28:00 the third points that I brought up of making buses fast and free, delivering universal childcare, these are things that have to be done in partnership with Albany, state government, right? The, the reason that it was at a core part of my campaign though is any mayor with an agenda that is as ambitious as the crisis in front of them-

Speaker 28:19 Mm

Zohran Mamdani 28:19 ... will require state partnership.

Trevor Noah 28:22 Okay.

Zohran Mamdani 28:22 Because the city is effectively a creature of the state, especially after the 1970s fiscal crisis. So one of the most impressive achievements in city politics in the last few decades was the creation of universal pre-K. That was done by the previous mayor, who ... Mayor de Blasio, who ran on that as part of his agenda, needed Albany to get it done. There were all these articles written about how it was unrealistic. He went up against a governor who was very much opposed to it, and he won the funding for that because of the coalition that he built.

Trevor Noah 28:54 Okay.

Speaker 28:54 Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 28:54 And so my point here is that there are some things you can do directly yourself. There are other things you will have to build the coalition around you to do, but all of these things have to be part and parcel of it. Because I can tell you, to my mind, one of the most frustrating things you can tell a New Yorker when they call your district office is, "Oh, that's not, that's not actually my jurisdiction."

Trevor Noah 29:14 Ah, yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 29:15 "You should call this person," or, "You should call at that level." Being the mayor of this city comes with immense power, not to say total power at all, but immense power to at least start an agenda and then start to deliver that agenda when you build the coalition you need. That's where I see the possibility in these three things.

Speaker 29:33 So okay, great. This is great.

Trevor Noah 29:34 Wait, you know, when you, when you say the thing about the, the book of power-

Speaker 29:37 Mm

Trevor Noah 29:37 ... it makes me think of, like ... I think you and I actually had this conversation. We talked about how-

Speaker 29:41 Mostly me giving ideas. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 29:43 We talked about how ... A- again, I don't care where good ideas come from.

Speaker 29:47 No.

Trevor Noah 29:47 You know? Uh, my idea-

Speaker 29:49 I'm joking. I'm joking

Trevor Noah 29:49 ... is people shouldn't worry about their egos.

Speaker 29:52 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 29:52 Um, but no, but we, we had this conversation about-

Speaker 29:55 Yeah, no, I'm joking. I'm joking

Trevor Noah 29:55 ... we, we, we talked about, we're talking about Trump, and we literally, we, we, we-

Speaker 29:58 Yes

Trevor Noah 29:58 ... joked and we said, "It feels like

Trevor Noah 30:00 Trump was the first person to read that book."

Speaker 30:02 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 30:02 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 30:03 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 30:03 Because there's so many things-

Speaker 30:04 No one can be done.

Trevor Noah 30:04 No, because there's so many things where Trump is doing it, and then people are like, "Uh, can a president do that?" And then it's like, "Oh, yeah, he can." And you're like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We didn't know that you could do all of these things." And I think that's sort of what the question is.

Zohran Mamdani 30:15 Yeah, and I, and, and I think it's ... Look We have this transition. We have four incredible co-chairs. One of them is Lina Khan. And Lina Khan-

Trevor Noah 30:23 Can we get Lina Khan on the show, by the way? She's one of my favorite human beings. No, can I tell you, I, I ... We'll have a separate conversation about this.

Zohran Mamdani 30:30 I'll pass the request on.

Trevor Noah 30:30 I'll tell you why. I hate-

Speaker 30:31 Does it take away from our time?

Trevor Noah 30:33 [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 30:33 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 30:34 Yes.

Speaker 30:35 Okay. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 30:35 But it's, but it'll add time value. It'll add value.

Speaker 30:38 Okay. Okay.

Trevor Noah 30:38 No, I'll tell you why.

Zohran Mamdani 30:39 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 30:39 Lina Khan, like you see in, like on a wall of like superheroes.

Zohran Mamdani 30:42 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 30:42 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 30:43 The way I hate monopolies, mergers, acquisitions, and you know this as my friends-

Zohran Mamdani 30:50 Orlando Pirates.

Trevor Noah 30:52 I don't think that counts.

Zohran Mamdani 30:53 What about the Orlando Pirates? [laughs]

Speaker 30:54 [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 30:54 What about ... Sorry.

Trevor Noah 30:55 But thank you for that, Eugene.

Speaker 30:55 What about counting things he hates? [laughs]

Trevor Noah 30:58 [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 30:58 [laughs] God,

Zohran Mamdani 31:00 Trevor, what the hell?

Speaker 31:01 Mergers.

Trevor Noah 31:01 Mergers. [laughs]

Speaker 31:02 Acquisitions. Kaiser Chiefs.

Trevor Noah 31:06 [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 31:07 [laughs]

Speaker 31:07 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 31:07 Oh, man.

Speaker 31:08 What are we doing?

Trevor Noah 31:09 It goes my brain, like Orlando Pirates. [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 31:13 [laughs]

Speaker 31:13 Cortaz with no Russian.

Trevor Noah 31:15 [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 31:15 [laughs]

Speaker 31:16 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 31:16 No. Anyway, she's ... I'll tell you, she's a hero because I, I think she taps into-

Zohran Mamdani 31:20 She's amazing.

Speaker 31:20 Mm-hmm

Trevor Noah 31:20 ... and I think that's maybe why you picked her. Part of it is she taps into the understanding that not everything is happening on the surface the way you think it is.

Zohran Mamdani 31:29 Mm.

Trevor Noah 31:29 And then you go like, "Why did that happen? Why did that happen?" And then she's like, "Oh, let me show you where it started."

Zohran Mamdani 31:33 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Noah 31:34 Like she's at the origin story-

Zohran Mamdani 31:35 Mm

Trevor Noah 31:35 ... of a lot of these things.

Zohran Mamdani 31:35 She, and she spoke about that when she first got to her job, she felt like she was experiencing the great forgetting.

Speaker 31:42 Wow.

Zohran Mamdani 31:42 Where she got there and it felt as if so many people working in government had forgotten the tools they had at their disposal.

Trevor Noah 31:47 You see? That's, that's what I'm talking about.

Zohran Mamdani 31:48 And, and-

Speaker 31:49 You nailed it

Zohran Mamdani 31:49 ... and I think we ... It's, it's ... There is a need for imagination for the new kinds of policies and proposals you put forward, and also an ambition to use your existing set of tools-

Trevor Noah 32:01 Yeah

Zohran Mamdani 32:01 ... to actually transform people's lives.

Speaker 32:03 Mm-hmm. [upbeat music]

Trevor Noah 32:05 Don't go anywhere, 'cause we got more What Now after this. [upbeat music]

Zohran Mamdani 32:14 Do you think people-

Trevor Noah 32:15 Can I ... Just one more question. Just, sorry, sorry, really. This is now-

Speaker 32:18 He's not sorry

Trevor Noah 32:19 ... sorry. Now, okay, I'm done.

Speaker 32:20 He's never sorry.

Zohran Mamdani 32:20 He's never sorry.

Trevor Noah 32:20 Okay, one more question.

Speaker 32:21 Never sorry.

Trevor Noah 32:21 Now, in, in just to wrap up the powers thing, do we all agree as New Yorkers that ambulances are too loud?

Speaker 32:29 It is something-

Trevor Noah 32:29 Oh, I feel like this has turned, this has literally turned into those-

Speaker 32:32 Oh, this is one of my things

Trevor Noah 32:32 ... it really has turned into a, um, a town hall.

Speaker 32:35 No, I'm just, I'm just-

Trevor Noah 32:35 No, your posture. Can I tell you, I always look at when I watch town halls-

Speaker 32:38 Sure

Trevor Noah 32:38 ... and people come up and do this thing, I'm always like, "Who are these people?" I didn't know I'm friends with one of them.

Speaker 32:43 Hey. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 32:43 The po- like the posture, the everything.

Zohran Mamdani 32:45 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Noah 32:45 Just like, "Can we all agree, uh, that ambulances are too loud?"

Speaker 32:50 Also, also-

Zohran Mamdani 32:50 And, and speaking of powers.

Trevor Noah 32:52 Yes, exactly. [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 32:53 Here's my pet issue.

Speaker 32:55 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 32:55 But, but yes. He like, he like-

Speaker 32:56 No, we're talking about mergers and acquisitions. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 32:59 I like how Dave gave himself

Trevor Noah 33:00 citizenship. As citizen.

Speaker 33:02 Hey, hey, Uganda.

Trevor Noah 33:03 Wait, wait, wait, Dave. Dave, wait. No, but actually, I, I do like this question because I, I think ... You know why? As I get it, macro versus micro.

Speaker 33:11 Yes.

Trevor Noah 33:11 I think these are like the nice things-

Speaker 33:12 That's what I mean

Trevor Noah 33:12 ... to try and understand. I, I'll, I'll interpret for you.

Speaker 33:14 So now.

Trevor Noah 33:14 Yes.

Speaker 33:15 So now, one, we all agree that ambulances are too loud.

Trevor Noah 33:18 Way too loud in New York.

Speaker 33:19 When, when-

Trevor Noah 33:19 Way too loud. I agree.

Speaker 33:21 They're too loud.

Trevor Noah 33:22 They're way too loud.

Speaker 33:22 One ambulance, and the entire Manhattan knows that, you know that-

Trevor Noah 33:26 Yes, I agree

Zohran Mamdani 33:26 One-

Trevor Noah 33:26 You don't even know-

Zohran Mamdani 33:27 Someone's about to lose their life.

Trevor Noah 33:28 You don't know. You don't even know.

Speaker 33:28 No, no. Don't join that. But that's the point. That's my point.

Trevor Noah 33:29 Is that too much of an inconvenience for you?

Speaker 33:31 For the car to tell you-

Trevor Noah 33:32 No, Eugene, Eugene, Eugene

Speaker 33:32 ... that, that someone is in-

Trevor Noah 33:33 No, let me explain. Let me explain. Eugene, wait. Let me explain. Let me explain. I, this is what Dave means really. You don't even know where it's coming from.

Speaker 33:38 No.

Trevor Noah 33:38 It's pointless at some point. It's like no-

Speaker 33:39 It knows where it's going. That's the most important part.

Trevor Noah 33:41 Yes, but nobody knows where it's coming ... But anyway, finish asking it.

Speaker 33:43 Cool. So now, would you say that, that in some way or form the citizens of New York, both documented and document ... I'm not even joking, 'cause you're trying to expose me. But, um, uh-

Trevor Noah 33:56 [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 33:56 [laughs]

Speaker 33:56 But-

Trevor Noah 33:56 Trying?

Speaker 33:57 But now-

Trevor Noah 33:58 Trying

Speaker 33:58 ... would you say that it is, that you pledge-

Zohran Mamdani 34:02 Yeah

Speaker 34:02 ... to have a, like some sort of database, not a database, but link, so that we can see what's inside the ambulance?

Zohran Mamdani 34:09 This is Gestapo. Yeah.

Trevor Noah 34:10 So o- or-

Zohran Mamdani 34:10 What's going on? [laughs]

Trevor Noah 34:11 Or because, because-

Zohran Mamdani 34:12 I never, I never knew where the next-

Trevor Noah 34:14 No, no, no. [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 34:15 ... [laughs] sentence was going.

Trevor Noah 34:16 Because-

Speaker 34:16 Or where the next ambulance was gonna go.

Trevor Noah 34:18 Welcome, welcome to Dave.

Zohran Mamdani 34:19 No.

Trevor Noah 34:19 Welcome to D-

Zohran Mamdani 34:20 No.

Trevor Noah 34:20 You just summed up Dave.

Zohran Mamdani 34:21 No. What?

Trevor Noah 34:21 If there was a review of Dave, that would be-

Zohran Mamdani 34:23 So if it's too loud, you wanna know what's happening inside?

Trevor Noah 34:26 [laughs] Can I tell you? No, I'm gonna tell you.

Speaker 34:28 Well, if there's better ambulances-

Trevor Noah 34:28 You want to know, I think, I think what he wants to know-

Speaker 34:31 You want silence?

Trevor Noah 34:31 ... is, is it justified being loud?

Speaker 34:33 Yes.

Trevor Noah 34:33 Has the person stubbed their toe?

Speaker 34:35 Yes.

Trevor Noah 34:35 Or is this person in cardiac arrest?

Speaker 34:36 Yes, that's what I mean.

Zohran Mamdani 34:37 No, but more importantly, are you asking can-

Speaker 34:38 Or will you decrease the volume? Do you know what I mean? If the ... Not everybody is having a emergency the way these ambulances tell us.

Trevor Noah 34:45 [laughs]

Speaker 34:45 That's not possible. So now-

Trevor Noah 34:47 Do, do you regret being mayor yet? [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 34:52 [laughs]

Speaker 34:52 [laughs] I'm saying, in your-

Trevor Noah 34:54 This is your life

Speaker 34:55 ... in your-

Trevor Noah 34:55 You know this is your life, right?

Speaker 34:56 In your book of powers-

Trevor Noah 34:57 You're gonna be having-

Zohran Mamdani 34:58 This is my life anyway

Trevor Noah 34:58 ... you're gonna be having dinner.

Zohran Mamdani 34:59 No, I like it.

Trevor Noah 34:59 You're gonna

Trevor Noah 35:00 be having dinner, and this guy's coming up.

Zohran Mamdani 35:01 I know too many guys like this anyway.

Trevor Noah 35:04 [laughs]

Speaker 35:04 No.

Zohran Mamdani 35:04 Now I'm the mayor, I still know these guys.

Speaker 35:06 No, because you have these, you have these, these big ideas. That's what I'm saying.

Trevor Noah 35:10 [laughs]

Speaker 35:10 In your book, I'm sure you can say that, and most people will, will agree.

Trevor Noah 35:15 [laughs]

Speaker 35:15 Most people will ... No. No, no, no, 'cause we all agree, at some point we're gonna need an ambulance. We all agree.

Trevor Noah 35:20 Small, small injury, small, small siren.

Speaker 35:22 S- small siren. Big injury, big siren.

Trevor Noah 35:24 Can ... No. N- now, on, on a real though, can you ... Like w- are those the kinds of things that you actually can do unilaterally, or do you need to like ... Is there a board? Is there a ...

Zohran Mamdani 35:32 [laughs] On, on-

Trevor Noah 35:32 No, I think there's a-

Zohran Mamdani 35:33 On this question, I have-

Trevor Noah 35:34 Yeah, yeah. I mean it. I mean it. I know it sounds crazy

Zohran Mamdani 35:36 ... no idea.

Trevor Noah 35:36 Okay, okay. What about, what about something like-

Speaker 35:38 So you don't know what's in the book.

Trevor Noah 35:40 [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 35:42 [laughs] I am not gonna sit here-

Speaker 35:43 So you don't know what's in the book

Zohran Mamdani 35:45 ... and pretend that I even know the process-

Trevor Noah 35:48 [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 35:48 ... by which you would consider trading volume for-

Trevor Noah 35:53 [laughs]

Speaker 35:53 No

Zohran Mamdani 35:54 ... for silence.

Trevor Noah 35:54 Severity of injury. [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 35:56 For silence.

Speaker 35:56 No, you don't know what's in the book. That's the thing.

Trevor Noah 35:59 [laughs]

Speaker 35:59 Because it could be-

Trevor Noah 35:59 Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir

Speaker 36:00 ... it could be in the book.

Trevor Noah 36:01 Thank you for your time, sir.

Speaker 36:02 It could be an easy thing.

Trevor Noah 36:02 Thank you. Thank ... This, as you can see, so Dave definitely lives in New York, uh, a- and experiences ... This, this is actually what I, what I love about it is like, as you, as you're building up in this transition and you're getting ready for these things, how do you find ... So you have these three big, um, policies that you've run on. You've gone rent. We are aiming to freeze the rent, especially where we can immediately, and then work on helping other people. The second thing you're going with is the buses.

Zohran Mamdani 36:25 Buses, yeah.

Trevor Noah 36:25 They need to be faster, they need to be free.

Zohran Mamdani 36:27 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 36:28 And the third thing you're working on is the ...

Zohran Mamdani 36:29 Childcare.

Speaker 36:29 Childcare.

Trevor Noah 36:29 Childcare.

Zohran Mamdani 36:30 And then number four is Dave

Trevor Noah 36:32 Number four is Dave [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 36:33 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 36:33 Right. So, I mean, you've made it

Zohran Mamdani 36:34 You've made it.

Trevor Noah 36:35 You've made it.

Zohran Mamdani 36:36 Yeah, it is.

Trevor Noah 36:36 You've made it. So-

Zohran Mamdani 36:36 At this point-

Trevor Noah 36:37 Yeah

Zohran Mamdani 36:37 ... it's the only way out.

Trevor Noah 36:38 [laughs] So, so my, my question is wh- when you're in that, is there, is there a system- Oh, man ... for you as mayor to go, "These things are small but annoying, and they actually make a difference in people's lives." Mm. Like, like the s- Mm ... the sound of sirens or, for instance, or-

Zohran Mamdani 36:52 No, I, I think-

Trevor Noah 36:53 Like, how do you, how do you find those balances?

Zohran Mamdani 36:54 I think this is ... It's, it's not just that government has often said, "A crisis is too big. We cannot tackle it."

Trevor Noah 37:01 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 37:01 It's also that government has said, "This issue is too small. It's not worth our time."

Trevor Noah 37:05 Mm-hmm. Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 37:06 And as much, as much as we laugh, issues of this scale, whether it be the sound of something or the noise of something-

Trevor Noah 37:14 Yeah

Zohran Mamdani 37:14 ... or ... These, to New Yorkers, are examples of a city that's not working for them.

Trevor Noah 37:18 Yes, it is actually.

Zohran Mamdani 37:20 Whatever it may be. And you need to be able to prove that your city government takes it seriously because wherever you are losing people's faith, losing people's trust, that's also where you're losing their faith and trust in an ambitious agenda. You know, I was at a town hall with an incoming city council member, and his name is Ty, uh, at Rochdale Village in Southeast Queens, and a, an older woman got up, and she had a question for me. She said, "Will you honor a promise that was made to me multiple mayoral administrations ago?" And I was like, "Oh, you know, what is this promise going to be?" [laughs] Um, and she said they promised to put a speed bump at this corner, and it hadn't been done for more than a decade. And I was thinking to myself, "How could I ask her to believe in the possibility of delivering universal childcare if the same government couldn't even get her a speed bump?"

Trevor Noah 38:17 That they had promised.

Zohran Mamdani 38:18 That they had promised more than a decade ago. Because when you betray that promise-

Trevor Noah 38:22 Yeah

Zohran Mamdani 38:22 ... you are telling that New Yorker that they should not look to city government as something or someone that could deliver on their needs.

Trevor Noah 38:31 Mm-hmm.

Zohran Mamdani 38:31 And they start to turn away. And then when you ask ourself, "Why aren't more people voting? Why aren't more people invested? Why aren't more people engaged?" A lot of it is based on experiences like this-

Trevor Noah 38:39 Hmm

Zohran Mamdani 38:40 ... where the best that they can hope for from their city government is neglect or ignorance, and we have to win people back through the power of example. You can't finger wag your way to getting someone invested in the politics of their own city. You have to prove it to them. You have to prove that you were right to believe, and here we are actually delivering it. I don't know if I can prove it to you, Dave, but, uh-

Trevor Noah 39:01 Can I, can I say-

Zohran Mamdani 39:02 [laughs] With the ambulance specifically

Trevor Noah 39:02 ... can I say although I joined the mob in laughing at you-

Zohran Mamdani 39:06 Mm

Trevor Noah 39:06 ... I will say, though, this is a issue that I fully stand behind.

Zohran Mamdani 39:09 Which part of the issue?

Trevor Noah 39:10 The, the ... No, no. The, the, the sound- Transparent ambulances or silent ones I'll tell you why. No, I'll tell you why.

Zohran Mamdani 39:14 Mm.

Trevor Noah 39:15 It, it's, it's an idea that I've had that maybe I got from you.

Zohran Mamdani 39:19 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 39:20 And this idea has always been-

Zohran Mamdani 39:21 Dave

Trevor Noah 39:21 ... this idea has always been there's a, there's a disconnect in politics-

Zohran Mamdani 39:25 Yeah

Trevor Noah 39:25 ... and in the management of cities, countries, states, et cetera, where there are the things that will dramatically change your life, that are actual things that you need to happen, and then there are things that make you think your life is getting better or getting worse, but they aren't actually.

Zohran Mamdani 39:40 Mm.

Trevor Noah 39:41 Mm. And it's a strange thing that people have in society. You know what I mean? Some things can make people feel safer. Some things actually make you safer.

Zohran Mamdani 39:48 Mm.

Trevor Noah 39:48 Some things can make you feel like a city's functioning. Some things actually make it function, and it, it, it ... I'm always intrigued-

Zohran Mamdani 39:53 Perception and reality

Trevor Noah 39:54 ... the, the ... I'm always intrigued, uh, around, like, how a politician manages that. When you get

Trevor Noah 40:00 into that position, how do you manage that perception? So sirens is a good one. When you live in a city where you constantly hear sirens, it seems like something's always going wrong. Recently, when I traveled to London, Amsterdam, all these, I was, I was shocked at how quiet it wa- But I ... It took me a while to realize something was, like, missing.

Zohran Mamdani 40:17 Mm.

Trevor Noah 40:18 Mm. And then you're like, "Wait. It's quiet." And the, the quiet just makes you feel like-

Zohran Mamdani 40:23 Where's Dave?

Trevor Noah 40:24 [laughs] Man. [laughs] That was a good one. Can I tell you something? Can I tell you something? Your timing is impeccable. This, this Uganda on Uganda violence-

Zohran Mamdani 40:32 It's so beautiful

Trevor Noah 40:33 ... I'm here for it.

Zohran Mamdani 40:35 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 40:36 I'm here for it.

Zohran Mamdani 40:36 I thought it was the dictator that started it. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 40:37 All I, all I, all I'm waiting for Zohran to turn and do is look at you and be like, "Why are you Dave?" [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 40:42 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 40:42 [laughs] "Why are you Dave? Are you not Dave?" Um, okay. So, uh, help me, help me understand why you chose the three. The, the freezing the rent, that, I mean, I hope is self-explanatory to everybody.

Zohran Mamdani 40:56 Mm. Mm.

Trevor Noah 40:56 The cost of living is, it's unsustainable in New York and in many places in the world.

Zohran Mamdani 41:01 Yeah.

Trevor Noah 41:01 If people cannot afford to live, then they, they don't even wanna be part of that society. The buses.

Zohran Mamdani 41:06 Mm.

Trevor Noah 41:07 He- help me understand wh- why foster buses and free buses.

Zohran Mamdani 41:11 So these are the slowest buses in America.

Trevor Noah 41:14 Okay.

Zohran Mamdani 41:14 That's not-

Trevor Noah 41:15 Like, like what do you mean by that? Like the speed that they go?

Zohran Mamdani 41:17 The speed, right? We're talking about an average speed, um, in certain parts of Manhattan, around five miles an hour.

Trevor Noah 41:24 That's like wa- that's walking fast.

Zohran Mamdani 41:25 You can, you can beat the bus when you walk.

Trevor Noah 41:26 Like running type thing. Yeah, yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 41:28 Um, and what we see is that more than a million New Yorkers ride the bus.

Trevor Noah 41:33 Okay.

Zohran Mamdani 41:35 It costs $2.90. That is out of reach for one in five New Yorkers.

Trevor Noah 41:40 Wow.

Zohran Mamdani 41:40 So when you make the bus free, you not only provide economic relief, where you ensure that it's universally accessible, you also actually make it safer. We did this at the state legislature. I've, I've been a state assembly member for a few years.

Trevor Noah 41:56 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 41:57 And I worked with, uh, Mike Gianaris, a state senator. We made five bus routes free in New York City. When we made those bus routes free, after a year, assaults on bus drivers dropped by 38.9%.

Trevor Noah 42:10 On the bus drivers?

Zohran Mamdani 42:11 On the bus drivers, because unlike the train, the act of fare collection on the bus happens on the bus.

Trevor Noah 42:17 Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's their job. Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 42:19 And, and bus drivers and, and unions have shared anecdotally that about 50% of assaults happen around the farebox. So when you eliminate the farebox-

Trevor Noah 42:31 Mm

Zohran Mamdani 42:32 ... you make for a safer ... experience for the bus driver, for everyone on the bus. Yeah.

Speaker 42:36 Mm-hmm.

Zohran Mamdani 42:37 And what's fascinating, back to the point you were just making about perception and reality, is when they made a few bus routes free in Boston under Mayor Wu's leadership, they found that even more than the safety that was provided, is that people felt safer to an even higher degree than that. There you go. Right?

Speaker 42:51 Mm-hmm.

Zohran Mamdani 42:51 We saw this as well in Kansas City to varying extents in, in different parts of the country. And it has the economic benefits, has the public safety benefits, and even has benefits of bringing people who would otherwise be driving their car or taking a taxi and getting them on the bus. Hmm.

Speaker 43:06 Wow.

Zohran Mamdani 43:06 More than 10% of the new riders on these five bus routes were otherwise going to use private, uh, private vehicle. So it becomes economically viable for them. And, and I think what it comes back to is that if you pair the making of the bus free, which then also enables you to use any door to board- Yeah ... you don't have to wait behind anyone who's looking for their MetroCard or used to be looking for their coins. You can just board and exit. You speed up the time at each bus stop. In b- in Boston, you cut the dwell time by 23%. So there's a speed that's incorporated in this. And then the other part of this is that the city owns its own streets.

Speaker 43:39 Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 43:39 The city can speed up a bus-

Speaker 43:41 Mm-hmm

Zohran Mamdani 43:41 ... through the infrastructure it chooses to build or not to build. Got it.

Speaker 43:44 Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 43:44 Bus lanes, bus ways, bus rapid transit. It's a political choice that that bus is traveling at five miles an hour. Hmm. You can make that bus be the most obvious way to get around the city. Right now, so often New Yorkers are taking the bus because they have no other option. We want

Zohran Mamdani 44:00 it to be such that it is the option you choose. So that's what it comes back to. And the other part of this is this is disproportionately hurting working class New Yorkers. Yeah. Because a bus rider, the average salary of a bus rider is around $30,000 a year, right? We are talking about the most working class New Yorkers who are dealing with some of the most substandard public transit, and it's a political choice. It feels like New York has, like many cities in the world, fallen into the trap of fixing what needs to be fixed for the wealthy, and then sort of ignoring or pushing aside the problems that affect the poor. I mean, I think about, [laughs] I think about when you fly. Yeah. We have made it such a difficult experience to go through T- TSA- Mm-hmm ... that there's now a financial incentive to sign up for a separate program- Yeah ... that can move you through it quicker. Yeah. I mean, we have monetized the dysfunction of flying. Do you think that's by design though? I'm gonna leave that to you and Dave, man.

Speaker 45:04 Yeah, convenience is up for sale.

Zohran Mamdani 45:06 [laughs]

Speaker 45:07 Absolutely.

Zohran Mamdani 45:07 I mean, it's-

Speaker 45:07 Convenience has been up for sale for the longest time

Zohran Mamdani 45:09 It's, but it's absurd to me that w- that you should have to pay for the experience that you should already be getting. You already paid. This, anyway.

Speaker 45:22 This is a, a-

Zohran Mamdani 45:23 [laughs]

Speaker 45:23 This is a real question about the-

Zohran Mamdani 45:24 I thought you said no more questions.

Speaker 45:25 No, no. Oh, on that topic.

Zohran Mamdani 45:27 Oh, on that topic. This a real, a real question on the buses. How come you didn't go with, um, like the people who were paying- Hmm ... can, who ... You know, 'cause some people not don't mind paying, but they, like, they can pay in a way to keep the revenue coming in, and then people who can't pay- This is, this is a good question ... can't pay, then they have a way of like, okay. So this, this is in effect a question about universal approach versus means tested. Means tested would say if you make a certain income or less, then you should be eligible for a reduction in your fare or the elimination of your fare. There already exists a program in New York City called Fair Fares, where if you make a certain amount of money or less, you'll get a reduced fare. The MTA, by last estimate, when they were testifying at the state, they said about 40% of eligible New Yorkers are enrolled. The question was asked to them, what would success look like? They said 50%. So success looks like leaving 50% of your eligible population out of your program. And so whenever you create a means tested program, you are comfortable to some level with saying goodbye to people who would be eligible for it because you know the hurdles of creating a bureaucratic system of proving eligibility, of applying, of receiving, and then of using. Versus if you make something free at point of use, you capture the entirety of everyone you're looking to serve. And this is the difference, is that the safety of that bus, the

Zohran Mamdani 47:00 efficacy of how it is moving, the question of the doors, all of this is tied to the elimination of fare at once. Mm-hmm. And when we made those five bus routes free, we found the s- most significant increase in riders was among New Yorkers making $28,000 a year or less. Hmm. They're already eligible- Yeah ... for Fair Fares, but less than 20% of them were enrolled in that program. So that to me is if, if you are serious about reaching everyone- Yeah ... then here's how you do it. Hmm. You know what it's similar to, funny enough? It's, it's similar to what I feel like they're doing with voting in America. Mm. Right? They are systematically making it harder and harder for people to vote, but basing it, like, the premise is, "No, no, no, it's super easy to vote." Hmm. "All you have to do is-" Show up.

Speaker 47:48 Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 47:48 "All you have to do is ... All you have to do is-" Take the day off. "All you have to do is ... All you have to do ..." You know what I mean? It's like, get this ID. Oh, but this new type of ID needs this type of identification and- Hmm ... and then it's like, "Well, which ones do you accept?" "Oh, your, your gun one." "Oh, we take the gun one. NRA will work." "Oh, but this one doesn't work, and this one ..." Do you know what I mean? It should be five minutes. And then to your point ... Yeah, and more importantly, it's the trick of saying, "It's free." Mm-hmm. "You're free to enter." Mm-hmm. But then the process of coming in is not really free. Hmm. Do, do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's like the trick of the interns. Like, to be an intern you've got to be a pretty rich kid. I work for free. Yeah, but do you know how much you have to earn to work for free? Hmm.

Speaker 48:26 Hmm.

Zohran Mamdani 48:26 And I feel like that's, that's, that's what you're tapping into. With the, with the childcare thing, is that- Well, it's the economic ... is that a similar ... No, no. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. There's a similar principle. Yeah. Is like, with the childcare thing, what do you think-

Trevor Noah 48:37 I mean, it, it seems obvious. Some people would go ... And we've seen, uh, discussions around this, you know, privatization and shit. They'll be like, "Oh, the private sector should be dealing with this." Well, why is the government getting involved in childcare? Shouldn't just, you know, companies provide childcare? Wh- wh- why do you think it's important for the state to step in, for the, for the city to step in?

Zohran Mamdani 48:56 Well, look, wh- when the city and the state doesn't step in, companies have to put forward childcare benefits, childcare services. Why should that be a company's job?

Trevor Noah 49:05 Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 49:06 Y- you are seeing companies having to provide a service that should be provided by the city and the state.

Trevor Noah 49:10 Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 49:11 I mean, quite literally, you have companies that have childcare on site. You have companies that are giving annual stipends for, you know, paying towards childcare. The point of this is that if we do not treat this as the social crisis that it is-

Trevor Noah 49:22 Yeah

Zohran Mamdani 49:23 ... it's, we are going to make ... We're going to pass this cost on, and this is actually a cost that we should be bearing at a city and a state level. And the average cost of childcare in New York City for s- one child is $22,500.

Trevor Noah 49:36 But that's close to what you just said the-

Speaker 49:38 Average

Trevor Noah 49:38 ... earning, the average earning was for ... I mean, that's, that's insane.

Zohran Mamdani 49:42 It is cheaper to send that same child 18 years later to the City University of New York than it is to find childcare for them.

Trevor Noah 49:49 [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 49:49 That's how expensive it is. And we often talk about delivering universal childcare in the language of how much it will cost and how difficult it will be-

Trevor Noah 49:57 Yeah

Zohran Mamdani 49:58 ... as if it doesn't already cost this

Zohran Mamdani 50:00 city and state an immense amount today. In 2022, we lost $23 billion in economic activity because of the absence of universal childcare.

Trevor Noah 50:10 E- explain how.

Zohran Mamdani 50:11 Because you had people leaving this city, leaving this state. After housing-

Trevor Noah 50:16 Oh

Zohran Mamdani 50:16 ... the number one thing driving people out of this city, childcare.

Trevor Noah 50:19 Whoa.

Zohran Mamdani 50:20 They're going anywhere they can find childcare for cheaper. And it's not just people whose kids they can't get childcare for, it's also childcare workers who cannot live off of the average salary at a home-based setting of $10 an hour.

Trevor Noah 50:30 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 50:31 People cannot live off of that. And we keep asking ourselves, why, you know, why, why, why is it so hard to raise a family in the city? It's like, look at the cost.

Trevor Noah 50:41 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 50:42 I was sitting on the M57, the slowest bus in Manhattan, a few months ago, and a city worker was seated behind me. She started speaking to me about how she had two kids. The only reason she could make it work here was because her 84-year-old grandmother would take care of those kids every single day.

Trevor Noah 50:58 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 50:59 And she told me that when her 84-year-old grandmother has to go to the doctor or she feels sick, the only option this mother has is that she has to take a sick day from work.

Speaker 51:06 Take a day off. Mm-hmm.

Zohran Mamdani 51:07 'Cause she can't afford childcare. We are pushing people out of the city, and frankly, people are feeling it when they're making 40K a year. They're feeling it when they're making 100K. They're feeling it 200K, 'cause $22,500 is an immense amount of money after tax.

Trevor Noah 51:20 Mm-hmm.

Zohran Mamdani 51:22 And we could be providing this.

Speaker 51:23 Question based-

Trevor Noah 51:23 So, so-

Speaker 51:24 This is a real question, real question based on the child-

Trevor Noah 51:26 We're gonna run out of time.

Speaker 51:27 No, we-

Trevor Noah 51:27 This is your last que-

Speaker 51:27 Yeah, no, real question

Trevor Noah 51:28 ... choose your last question well.

Speaker 51:29 Yes. Based on, on childcare, what is this gonna look like, uh, like practically?

Zohran Mamdani 51:34 Hmm.

Speaker 51:35 Do you know what I mean? What is, what does it mean?

Trevor Noah 51:36 Zohran's gonna come look after your child.

Speaker 51:38 No, man. Come on. You see, you are now wasting my time.

Trevor Noah 51:40 You're gonna put in the youth. [laughs]

Speaker 51:41 What is it-

Trevor Noah 51:41 It's never a waste of time when a joke is in ... Can we all agree-

Zohran Mamdani 51:44 Never

Trevor Noah 51:45 ... there's ... Thank you.

Zohran Mamdani 51:46 Never.

Trevor Noah 51:46 Jeeva.

Zohran Mamdani 51:47 Never.

Trevor Noah 51:47 Never. Jokes are never a waste of time.

Zohran Mamdani 51:49 In fact, never.

Speaker 51:52 Hmm.

Trevor Noah 51:52 Anyway, continue.

Speaker 51:53 But do, do you know what is this, what does it look like practically-

Trevor Noah 51:55 That's a great question, by the way

Speaker 51:55 ... practically?

Zohran Mamdani 51:57 You will see a system that

Zohran Mamdani 52:00 is building on the infrastructure we already have.

Trevor Noah 52:02 Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 52:03 And what that means is it's going to be something built out that includes both center-based care and home-based care, right? There are many New Yorkers who feel more comfortable sending their child to a neighbor who is providing childcare for a few children on that block. There are other New Yorkers who prefer sending their child to a childcare center. And we can look at universal pre-K, which we were talking about earlier, as a model for both how it took an immense cost burden off of the backs of working families, but also how it stood up an entire infrastructure, because this is the thing that's also missing in so much of city government, is a sense of urgency, of actually being able to scale something up. And that, to me, the commitment we've made, delivering childcare for New Yorkers from ages five down to six weeks of age. And so what we have right now is we have universal pre-K. We have 3-K in New York City, but it is broken. The first order of business is to fix 3-K, and then we look at 2-K, we look at 1-K. We look at delivering childcare for children right now that if their parents don't have the money or they don't have a family member, we see that those parents often leave.

Trevor Noah 53:08 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 53:09 I mean, 80% of New Yorkers with children under five cannot afford childcare in the city.

Trevor Noah 53:13 80%.

Zohran Mamdani 53:14 80%.

Trevor Noah 53:17 I, I find myself wondering about labels a lot and how they limit our ability to think, you know, because your name, synonymous, socialist, and then people who are trying to be disparage you, communist, and ... But you see a lot, "Oh, this socialist, he's trying to turn America into ... This guy doesn't like..." And yet every time I hear you speak, you talk about how much money the thing will generate-

Zohran Mamdani 53:40 Hmm

Trevor Noah 53:41 ... for businesses, for people themselves, for co- Do you, do you ... When you think of how people process the label of socialism or the idea behind it, do you think they themselves have an understanding of what it actually means versus what they've been told it means? Do, do, do you get what I'm saying?

Zohran Mamdani 53:59 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 54:00 I think as a, as a Muslim socialist, I'm familiar with bad PR. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 54:04 [laughs] It's-

Speaker 54:05 Good old MS.

Trevor Noah 54:06 [laughs]

Speaker 54:07 You know, those damn MSes.

Zohran Mamdani 54:09 It's, it's a long journey to explain. Um, but I think, you know, many people have caricatures in their head as to what it means.

Trevor Noah 54:18 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 54:19 I often turn to Dr. King to, to describe socialism. He said, "Call it democracy or call it democratic socialism. There must be a better distribution of wealth for all of God's children in this country."

Trevor Noah 54:29 Hmm.

Zohran Mamdani 54:29 It comes back to dignity. It comes back to ensuring that whatever you need to live a dignified life, that you have that. You should not be priced out of a necessity.

Trevor Noah 54:39 Yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 54:39 We're not talking about want or like.

Trevor Noah 54:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Zohran Mamdani 54:42 We're talking about need. You should not be priced out of, of, of being able to- Have a home to call your own, of being able to send your kid to school-

Trevor Noah 54:50 Right, right

Zohran Mamdani 54:50 ... being able to ride the bus. And I've found actually that when you're speaking to New Yorkers one-to-one, they've actually had far fewer questions of how I describe my politics-

Trevor Noah 54:59 Mm

Zohran Mamdani 54:59 ... and far more

Zohran Mamdani 55:00 of does my politics include them. Do, are their struggles part of my focus? And, and I've found that there are many people who might describe themselves in a different way, but when I speak about what this would mean for New York City, they start to see themselves in that vision. And that's, I think, the key of this, is how is this a politics that actually reflects the struggles of working people?

Trevor Noah 55:21 Do you think your politics and your campaign connected with people because you actually connected with people?

Zohran Mamdani 55:27 I, I think a lot of it also had to do with the incredible team I had around me.

Trevor Noah 55:31 Yeah?

Zohran Mamdani 55:32 To be honest, I, I, I ... Someone was asking me the other day about people trying to make videos the way that we made videos. Uh, and I was saying that part of it is it, it misunderstands that it's not as much who's in front of the camera, it's also who's behind the camera.

Trevor Noah 55:45 Mm.

Zohran Mamdani 55:45 You can see a distinct moment-

Trevor Noah 55:46 Yeah

Zohran Mamdani 55:46 ... in the campaign when I stopped making the videos. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 55:49 [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 55:50 It's, it's the moment when the campaign became legitimate.

Trevor Noah 55:52 Right.

Zohran Mamdani 55:53 Right? [laughs]

Trevor Noah 55:53 Right.

Zohran Mamdani 55:53 Um, and I, and I think that that, that losing sight of the collective and thinking it's all about the individual, it means you lose sight of how this campaign was built.

Trevor Noah 56:04 All right. Your team is telling us we gotta wrap up. W- do you promise-

Zohran Mamdani 56:07 We didn't even talk about Mzansi

Trevor Noah 56:08 ... th- that's why I'm saying do you promise to come back? Make, let, give, give me one. That's the only promise I want. Dave wants ambulances.

Zohran Mamdani 56:14 I promise. I, I promise to come back. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 56:15 You promise to come back?

Zohran Mamdani 56:16 I promise.

Trevor Noah 56:16 You don't have to, by the way.

Zohran Mamdani 56:17 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 56:17 You can say no, and then I don't-

Zohran Mamdani 56:18 This, look-

Trevor Noah 56:18 Then I don't have the promise

Zohran Mamdani 56:19 ... this is my only way.

Trevor Noah 56:21 No, no. Then I don't have the promise-

Zohran Mamdani 56:22 No

Trevor Noah 56:22 ... and I don't mind. I just-

Zohran Mamdani 56:23 I give you the promise.

Trevor Noah 56:23 All right. Then I-

Zohran Mamdani 56:24 Because I, I-

Trevor Noah 56:25 I'll take three minutes and, and then I'll let you ... Here's a few things that I was-

Zohran Mamdani 56:27 Because I, I wanted to talk about-

Trevor Noah 56:28 Yeah, go. What were-

Zohran Mamdani 56:29 I wanna talk about Cape Town.

Trevor Noah 56:31 Yeah. They really have to go, like right now.

Zohran Mamdani 56:34 Mind blow.

Trevor Noah 56:34 Your team is like, "Right."

Zohran Mamdani 56:34 Okay.

Trevor Noah 56:34 What did you wanna talk about? Cape Town and?

Zohran Mamdani 56:36 Cape Town.

Trevor Noah 56:36 And?

Zohran Mamdani 56:37 Casper Nyovest.

Trevor Noah 56:38 Open the door and come get him. Casper Nyovest.

Zohran Mamdani 56:39 I wanted to talk about Kwesta.

Trevor Noah 56:42 Wow, this guy's deep in- We're missing- This guy's deep in South African-

Zohran Mamdani 56:45 I wanna talk about Ricky Rick.

Trevor Noah 56:46 This guy. Man. Rest in peace, Ricky Rick, man.

Zohran Mamdani 56:49 Bozonkai.

Trevor Noah 56:50 Yeah? You gotta come back.

Zohran Mamdani 56:50 I love that song.

Trevor Noah 56:51 You have to come back. You know what? You know what I do?

Zohran Mamdani 56:53 And I, and I wanna figure out how we can get Major League DJs on Spotify.

Trevor Noah 56:57 You know what we're gonna do?

Zohran Mamdani 56:57 Because I have listened to Slica Soci on YouTube-

Trevor Noah 57:00 This guy

Zohran Mamdani 57:00 ... for too long.

Trevor Noah 57:00 We're gonna, we're gonna do a trilogy. This was just the politics stuff. Oh, come back. Part two, we're gonna do Zohran's life stuff. Also, we're having the elections of mayor of Joburg next year. Part three, just South Africa. If, if you're available.

Zohran Mamdani 57:13 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 57:13 Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for, thanks for taking him ... [laughs]

Zohran Mamdani 57:17 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 57:18 It'd be so f- it'd be so funny if you've just got like a dinner reservation.

Zohran Mamdani 57:21 [laughs]

Trevor Noah 57:21 That. That would be so blazing. I wish. I wish. No, no, no, I wouldn't ... I'm just saying it would be funny. Anything for a joke. I don't c- if you take him, if this ends in a joke, if Zohran's like, "I gotta go, I gotta go, I gotta ..." And then he gets in like, "For two. Table for two, please."

Zohran Mamdani 57:33 Yeah. [laughs]

Trevor Noah 57:33 And then he gets in. Me and Shabalala. [laughs] Yo, man. Zohran Mamdani, thank you very much.

Zohran Mamdani 57:38 Thank you.

Trevor Noah 57:38 Take, take your man away. To be continued. We've never ended a podcast like that. That'll be dope. No, we've never. This is a first. To be continued. Part one. [outro music] This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Whole Foods Market has everything you need for the holidays, whether you're a guest or hosting the big dinner. Whole Foods Market has convenience and cost-friendly finds that'll delight everyone at your table, plus great gift ideas, all of which follow the Whole Foods Market's strict ingredient standards. Shop for everything you need at Whole Foods Market, your holiday headquarters. [upbeat music] Thank you so much for watching the episode. If you enjoyed it, pass it on to a friend. If you didn't enjoy it, pass it on to your friend still. Let them suffer for a change. And don't forget to engage with us in the comments. Uh, if you wanna, uh, suggest a guest, maybe there's questions you want, maybe there's ideas that you have, you can chat to us. We will read through the comments, and we'll get into it. Either way, I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for hanging out with us on What Now? And remember, we do this for you, so we would like to hear from you. Till next time, thank you. [outro music]