Did Apple Actually Duo It?

Speaker 0:00 Doc on the right. God. Okay, so it's such a good idea. I, I- Unless you're a lefty ... unless you're left-handed. [laughs] W- in which case, become right-handed. [laughs] You're holding it. You're holding it wrong. Yeah. Can you-

David Imel 0:09 [upbeat music]

Speaker 0:13 Yo, what is up people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We are your hosts. I'm Marques. I'm Andrew.

David Imel 0:19 And I'm David.

Speaker 0:20 And over at the producer desk, we have Adam and Ellis.

Speaker 0:22 Hello.

Speaker 0:23 We, uh, video listeners, video viewers, you can already tell we're in a new place, because it's Apple Event week, and the news of the week is the event that happened here in California. And we figured before we flew home, we might as well use one of their nicely, uh, loaned podcast studio spaces to tell you, tell you guys all about what happened. So, here we are. We have to, 'cause it's out on a Wednesday, and we have to get this out. Yeah, we are- It's Thursday right now. We are crushing this. This is gonna be great. Uh, but we do have a lot to talk about, so we should just jump directly into it. Now, I see here that we have this nicely organized doc, where we have some of the more chill announcements first. Oh. AirPods first, Watch first. Don't say thank you, 'cause he's gonna say, "But I'm going to go off-screen-"

David Imel 0:59 Exactly

Speaker 0:59 ... [laughs] and miss all of the stuff you guys wrote. No, no, no. You know what? Let's stick with it, 'cause retention-

David Imel 1:03 I wrote a lot of work, Marques

Speaker 1:03 ... retention's very important, I say. But just to, just to make sure people know what's coming, we are talking about the, the AirPods, we're talking about the new Watches. We are also talking about the new iPhone 18 Pro and Pro Max, and the new folding iPhone Duo, uh, which is all that we got. We did not get new base iPhone 18s. We did not get new iPhone Air or SE or anything like that. If you watched the Impressions video, we know, we kind of assume that's coming, like, early next year.

David Imel 1:30 Yeah.

Speaker 1:30 So we kinda, like, they, they did the thing where they made room for the big important thing, and we talked a lot about foldable, and we will also talk a lot about foldable. But let's do the other stuff first.

David Imel 1:38 Good.

Speaker 1:38 Yeah.

David Imel 1:39 Good.

Speaker 1:39 Great. Okay. Well, I figured the way that I organized this document was sort of least updates to biggest updates. Nice. Okay. Um, which is kinda how Apple usually presents this stuff. They're like, "You guys love AirPods. Here's the same thing again." Yeah. They actually started off by reminding us that iOS 27 exists- Right ... and that Siri exists, so it's the sort of re-announcement stuff for people who didn't watch Dub Dub. I forgot about that. Well- That was a big deal, because a lot of these people are buying new iPhones, but they didn't... They were not on the betas. They weren't on beta five, you know? Yeah.

David Imel 2:08 I'd argue they started with, um, a CEO pass-off.

Speaker 2:11 That's true. Yeah. Also very true.

David Imel 2:12 We did... I di- I liked the little, uh, Tim Cook, like, "I'm not the main character. That's your guy."

Speaker 2:17 Yeah.

David Imel 2:17 I thought that was a cute way to do it.

Speaker 2:18 That was a good nod. That was a good nod. Yeah. He had such main character energy. I mean, he always does. [laughs] You know? He always does. But he did nod it off to, uh, to Turnus- To Turnus ... who, who did the whole event, as we expected. Yeah. Yeah.

David Imel 2:28 Something we asked on our Man on the Street pod, which will actually come out after this, is do we think, uh, was it, "Hello and good morning," do we think that's a catchphrase or no? It sounds like he did not say that on-

Speaker 2:39 Hello and welcome.

David Imel 2:39 Hello and welcome?

Speaker 2:39 Yeah, yeah. That's-

David Imel 2:40 Hello and welcome. Yeah.

Speaker 2:41 Yeah. Do we- Is that what... That, that's what he started with?

David Imel 2:42 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:43 Only on the stream. On the stream. Like, in person he said, "Wow." Okay, that's actually... I feel better about that- [laughs] ... because-

David Imel 2:49 I like wow

Speaker 2:49 ... whenever you see the little, like, lowercase hello text, I think that's, like, when you first boot an iPhone, that's what it says or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And then we all know Tim Cook's sort of trademarked opening line at every keynote was, "Good morning," maybe five, six, seven, eight, nine times. Yeah. Which is great, but then I was like, Turnus can't say, "Good morning." No. He has to say something else. No. So, what will he say? And I figured it would be a lowercase hello. It kind of was.

David Imel 3:09 A lowercase hello?

Speaker 3:10 On the screen. Uh, specifically a lowercase hello.

David Imel 3:11 What does a lowercase hello sound like?

Speaker 3:13 Hello. Hello.

David Imel 3:14 Hello.

Speaker 3:15 Yeah. And I think he can do it.

David Imel 3:17 Hello.

Speaker 3:17 It's not like... You know, Tim Cook has this, like, radiating energy when he says, "Good morning." It's, "Good morning." It's a capital G and a capital M.

David Imel 3:24 That was a good one.

Speaker 3:24 Thank you. Yeah, that was good.

David Imel 3:25 That was great.

Speaker 3:25 It was pretty low-key. He was practicing at home.

David Imel 3:27 Is he here?

Speaker 3:27 [laughs] You know?

Speaker 3:30 Turnus is very low-key. So, yeah. Low-key. Um. So, they did the, they did the CEO handoff. Turnus leaves the event, dives in. AirPods 5 is the first product we get, and as you said, probably the fewest amount of updates, but also pretty reasonably expected updates. Mm-hmm. It gets, uh, the $129 price tier, has ANC. It's more powerful ANC, and it has a non-wireless charging case, and I think it has slightly thicker mesh, so it has a little bit better passive cancellation as well. Uh, but then there's a $149 version- Yeah ... that adds a wireless charging case and, uh, the little volume control on the stems from the Pros- Yeah ... which I really like. Mm-hmm. Uh, at this point, you basically have the Pros without the rubber tips. Yeah. So, nice. Yeah. That's, that's good. And they sound pretty good, and yeah, it's interesting that if you pay $20 more to get the wireless charging case, and they just call it AirPods 5 with wireless charging case. Yeah. You also get, like, the volume thing on the stem. For some reason, that's not on the standard model. Yes.

David Imel 4:28 Yeah.

Speaker 4:28 Um, it also gets an extra hour of battery life over the version that doesn't have the wireless charging case. Yeah. And the total battery life is 20 hours on the non-wireless charging case and 22 on the wireless charging case. Apparently, it's a slightly bigger battery in the case, too. That's strange. Um- I don't get it. It's two SKUs, but they have two names.

David Imel 4:45 It is.

Speaker 4:45 I'm gonna say it's worth the $20. [laughs] Yeah, I think so.

David Imel 4:47 And you get the Find My speaker, too, right?

Speaker 4:49 Yeah.

David Imel 4:49 Yeah.

Speaker 4:49 That's the other thing. Yeah, you don't get- Yeah ... a Find, Find My speaker on the... I don't even know why they're making the non-wireless charging version.

David Imel 4:55 This is... As a non-AirPods user, this was already very confusing to me-

Speaker 5:00 Yeah

David Imel 5:00 ... 'cause I forgot the AirPods 4 had the... AirPods 4 and AirPods 4 with ANC, correct?

Speaker 5:05 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

David Imel 5:06 So, the way they described things in comparison were like, "This is 50 per- or 1.5X more powerful ANC over last year's model."

Speaker 5:13 Yeah.

David Imel 5:13 But then the other one was just like, "You actually get ANC," so I was just lost for this entire-

Speaker 5:17 Yeah, the la- last year, the AirPods 4, there was a version with ANC and a version without. Yeah.

David Imel 5:22 Yeah.

Speaker 5:22 So now they both have ANC. Now they all have it.

David Imel 5:24 But one has wireless charging and one doesn't.

Speaker 5:25 But one has wireless cha- It's... I don't know why they made the cheaper version. I think just to keep it at that price point, I suppose. But- Yeah.

David Imel 5:32 It is funny that it's with the wireless charging case, but the actual-

Speaker 5:35 Is actually different

David Imel 5:36 ... is actually different with the stem.

Speaker 5:37 Yeah.

David Imel 5:37 Yeah, that's... Yeah.

Speaker 5:38 Yeah. Which is confusing, but- It's interesting. Um- Yeah ... I think a lot of the software stuff is more interesting than the actual hardware. The Live Translate- Yeah ... I wanna try. Um, obviously the passive no- the, the noise cancellation is always better for me in the silicon-tipped Pros that actually stay in my ears. Yeah. But for the people who allegedly are out there that just don't want that, that really, really want the hard-tipped earbuds, and it stays in their ears, 'cause they have the perfect ear. Like Brandon. Brandon and his- No, I'm jealous of his ear

David Imel 6:04 ... this, this week, we met someone yesterday that said that.

Speaker 6:06 This, this to me feels like- Now you get the same headphone and you just get to pick which one fits your ear better.

David Imel 6:12 Yeah.

Speaker 6:12 Which I think is a good thing. I think most truly wireless headphones, the worst part about them is finding one that fits your ear.

David Imel 6:17 Yeah.

Speaker 6:17 Now you have two options for it without-

David Imel 6:19 Yeah

Speaker 6:19 ... losing much else.

David Imel 6:20 Yeah, yeah. So that was good. That was basic- that was pretty basic. The next, bigger thing

David Imel 6:24 that we'll shift to is the Apple Watch Series 12 and Ultra 4, which actually are, in my opinion, bigger upgrades than we usually get from the Apple Watch, um, Series upgrades because they completely redesigned the bottom of the Apple Watch.

Speaker 6:37 Yeah.

David Imel 6:37 Which adds a bunch of different things.

Speaker 6:39 Yeah.

David Imel 6:39 Yeah.

Speaker 6:40 I have two really big thoughts about them.

David Imel 6:44 I'm excited.

Speaker 6:44 And I think the review has to dive into these thoughts.

David Imel 6:48 Yeah.

Speaker 6:48 But we should first talk about the physical-

David Imel 6:49 Yes

Speaker 6:49 ... updates.

David Imel 6:50 Yes.

Speaker 6:50 Which most of them are around, like, the cluster of sensors on the underside of the watch-

David Imel 6:54 Mm-hmm

Speaker 6:54 ... which have been, you know, slowly evolving over the years. They've been adding a couple sensors here and there, but they completely redesigned them, added way more photodiodes, way more sensors, way more LEDs, more powerful and bigger LEDs.

David Imel 7:05 Yeah.

Speaker 7:05 And all of this is in the name of measuring your heart rate way more frequently and way more accurately.

David Imel 7:11 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 7:12 And then they published a paper, uh, which I'm gonna link below, 'cause I think it's really interesting, where they com- they took a huge sample size of people and compared it to a whole bunch of other different wearables, including the Whoop, including wearable rings-

David Imel 7:24 Yeah

Speaker 7:24 ... and concluded with scientific rigor that it is the most accurate heart rate sensing wearable.

David Imel 7:30 Oh, so they did publish a paper.

Speaker 7:32 Yeah, yeah.

David Imel 7:32 That's what I was wondering yesterday during the event. I was like, "Where is this paper?"

7:35 It's a public paper on the website.

Speaker 7:36 Yeah.

David Imel 7:36 Nice.

7:36 Yeah.

7:36 Okay, cool.

7:37 Yeah.

Speaker 7:37 Yeah. Uh, so that to me was... That's a direct shot at all of this... Like, we've j- we've talked about all the year, like, the Whoops and then the Whoop competitors, which is like, okay, obviously Whoop has their subscription, so people are attacking that.

David Imel 7:48 Right.

Speaker 7:48 You, you have Fitbit Air, you have the Garmin f- the, what is it called? The-

David Imel 7:51 The Circa.

Speaker 7:52 Circa. Like, all of these are trying to directly, essentially, build Whoop, but for not as much money.

David Imel 7:59 Yeah.

Speaker 8:00 And along comes Apple. No subscription for an Apple Watch. You get the Apple Watch. Obviously it's in the ecosystem, but it's allegedly, well, now scientifically confirmed- [laughs]

David Imel 8:09 Yeah

Speaker 8:09 ... just as accurate, if not more so, than a Whoop.

David Imel 8:11 Yeah.

Speaker 8:11 And they redo the health app-

David Imel 8:13 Yeah

Speaker 8:13 ... which is coming in an update later this year, that adds a lot of the interpretation of the data.

David Imel 8:18 Yeah.

Speaker 8:18 'Cause there's, there's always been a ton of data, but it's... The health app's been just like a-

David Imel 8:23 Gross

Speaker 8:23 ... like a s- like a doctor's office, just, like, tons of lists of stuff that it's been collecting.

David Imel 8:27 Yeah.

Speaker 8:28 And it's not really fun to poke through there, but AI is gonna sort of, you know, unveil your sleep score and your health age and your-

David Imel 8:34 Yeah

Speaker 8:34 ... readiness today and all that stuff. So that'll give you some recommendations.

David Imel 8:38 I wish you guys could have heard Andrew go off about health age yesterday when we were watching the event.

8:41 [laughs]

Speaker 8:42 I don't even remember what I said.

David Imel 8:43 I know you were-

Speaker 8:43 I was on a blacked out. I'm sure.

David Imel 8:44 Yeah.

Speaker 8:44 It is, it is such a direct... I mean, 'cause Whoop, you know, Whoop does your Whoop age.

David Imel 8:49 Everyone-

8:49 A lot of things do.

8:49 A lot of things.

8:49 Garmin does a thing.

Speaker 8:50 Yeah, yeah.

David Imel 8:51 Everything does it now. Yeah.

Speaker 8:52 Yeah. And this is... It's, it's directly... It's not cloning, but it's giving you the exact same set of features. So if you were choosing between any of these, if you were cross-shopping-

David Imel 9:00 It's great entertainment.

Speaker 9:01 Yeah.

David Imel 9:01 Yeah.

Speaker 9:02 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

David Imel 9:02 There are so many small things about the updates to, like, the health app and the way that they're tracking data that I feel like are direct attacks at the things that we're trying to attack the Apple Watch. Every year, the Pixel Watch is making a big deal about how many more times it tracks your heart rate over, like, compared to the Apple Watch, and now Apple just came in and they're like, "Nope, we're doing it 60 times,"

Speaker 9:22 [laughs]

David Imel 9:22 "uh, a minute now." Uh, 60-

Speaker 9:24 No, 60 times-

David Imel 9:25 Sorry, 60 more frequently

Speaker 9:26 ... more frequently.

David Imel 9:26 Yes.

Speaker 9:26 Every five-

David Imel 9:28 Yes

Speaker 9:28 ... seconds in the background, polling for heart rate.

David Imel 9:30 Yeah. And-

Speaker 9:31 All day, every day, all day during your sleep

David Imel 9:33 ... 24 times more frequent heart rate variability readings compared-

Speaker 9:36 Yeah

David Imel 9:36 ... to Series 11. Um, yeah, okay, so the readiness thing and, like, the new health app redesign, my hot take is that they are preparing to release a Fitbit Air competitor because-

Speaker 9:46 [gasps]

David Imel 9:47 Yes. Like, look, this is not confirmed. [laughs]

9:50 Have to make that clear.

Speaker 9:51 I'm into this. I'm into that idea.

David Imel 9:51 So a, a lot of the, the changes in the health app kinda bring all the stuff that you would normally look at on your watch into, like, this more visual design. Like, they have this new petal design inside the new health app-

Speaker 10:02 Yeah

David Imel 10:02 ... that takes, like, all of these readings, like you were talking about. And usually it was just, like, charts and lists and all these things you have to scroll, scroll, scroll. Now they have a whole tab that just has this petal design that they call it, which is sorta looks like flower petals with things like your sleep score and, like, your readiness score and all of these things, and it gives you sort of this barometer of how good you're doing in each thing. And if the more filled those bars l- are, the, the better you're doing.

Speaker 10:26 Yeah.

David Imel 10:27 And if you look at, like, the Fitbit Air or, like, the Whoop, this is the thing that they do really well, is, like, when you actually look at your phone, that's the only surface you have to actually see your information. [laughs]

Speaker 10:38 Yeah. That's fair.

David Imel 10:38 On the Apple Watch, they design most of that information to see on the Apple Watch screen.

Speaker 10:43 Okay.

David Imel 10:43 You're not opening the health app on your, on your phone that often.

Speaker 10:46 So putting that display in the health app prepares them to have an equivalent with no display on your wrist.

David Imel 10:51 Yeah.

10:51 I just don't think they would wanna do anything to get an Apple Watch off your wrist.

10:55 I think that there are a lot of people who just don't wanna wear the Apple Watch that much. I mean, I think that-

11:01 I know you don't. I, I-

11:02 I don't

11:02 ... just don't think that's a big enough sample size of people. I think they, I think they want all of the extra Whoop competitor, Fitbit Air competitor, extra Garmin. I mean, Garmin's been doing this forever also. They want all those crazy metrics, especially with, like, an Apple Watch Ultra replicating Garmin kind of stuff.

11:16 Yeah.

11:17 Totally makes sense.

11:18 Yeah.

11:18 I just think they also want the... Especially 'cause they announced all this stuff, like the 15-second live rewind and listening all day kind of stuff.

Speaker 11:25 Yeah, which will be interesting.

David Imel 11:25 They want that on your wrist all the time.

Speaker 11:27 I have thoughts on that.

David Imel 11:28 And if the screenless-

11:29 Yeah

11:29 ... one doesn't have that, they much prefer having-

11:31 Yeah

11:32 ... the thing listening to on your wrist.

11:33 I do. I think they're gonna offer both.

Speaker 11:34 I agree. It's kinda like-

David Imel 11:35 I don't know

Speaker 11:35 ... Apple would love to sell you an Apple Watch, and if you... But I also think that the screenless fitness trackers are, like, a separate new growing category-

David Imel 11:44 Mm-hmm

Speaker 11:44 ... that if they don't offer anything, they're just going to leak Apple Watch users into that until they offer some-

David Imel 11:50 We'll see. Like Fitbit Air is-

Speaker 11:50 ... I don't know, equivalent.

David Imel 11:51 Yeah.

Speaker 11:52 And so the... We've seen pe- I'm an example. I, I have leaked out of Apple Watch into a screenless fitness tracker.

David Imel 11:57 Yeah.

Speaker 11:57 And that's not everyone. That's obviously a small group of people. But Whoop is huge.

David Imel 12:01 I think-

Speaker 12:01 Fitbit Air is huge

David Imel 12:02 Yeah.

Speaker 12:03 Lots of these scri- feen- s-

David Imel 12:05 Screenless

Speaker 12:05 ... Lot-

David Imel 12:05 Doing great, sweetie

Speaker 12:06 ... It's, it's 8:00 in the morning

David Imel 12:07 Screenless.

12:07 Screenless.

Speaker 12:07 Lots of these feenless screenness trackers.

David Imel 12:09 [laughs]

Speaker 12:09 Yeah, lots of these screenless fitness trackers are, uh, are interesting products, and I think if Apple could find a way to make it- ... ecosystem pull, they would.

Speaker 12:18 Yeah.

David Imel 12:18 I think, do we think the screen-less fitness tracker is only popular because Whoop had all these very specific metrics and calculations, and we're so much better than everyone else and we all know this crap?

Speaker 12:27 No, I do think it's a different type of person.

Speaker 12:28 Yeah.

David Imel 12:29 I don't know.

Speaker 12:30 You're wearing one right now.

David Imel 12:30 I, I'm just wearing a, a watch right now that's not a smart watch. I know, but I'm not wearing a screen-less fitness tracker because I don't care about it.

Speaker 12:35 I think the screen-less fitness tracker is a slightly more health-focused, slightly more athletic type of, like, buyer-

David Imel 12:42 Yeah

Speaker 12:42 ... versus the Apple Watch is, it's the most popular watch in the world.

David Imel 12:45 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 12:45 It's the definition of, like, the baseline casual-

Speaker 12:48 Yeah

Speaker 12:48 ... I'm going to maybe get into this a little bit. So if they could offer something for the people who are like, "I want more than the Apple Watch will give me, and I don't want the screen on my wrist, and I wanna run an ultramarathon, and the Ultra watch is not what I want," it's just-

David Imel 13:01 Well-

Speaker 13:01 ... a possible new thing to sell them.

David Imel 13:02 I think my reason for that is I think everyone likes the Whoop because the metrics are different. Now everyone's copying it. I think more people are going to keep screen on their wrist now because they get the benefits of that with notifications and everything.

Speaker 13:13 I did think about that.

David Imel 13:14 And they get all the new metrics. And I also think an ultramarathon's the number one time you want a screen on your wrist.

Speaker 13:19 Yeah, yeah.

David Imel 13:19 Because you want all that stuff up to date. That's why Garmin dominates ultramarathon runners.

Speaker 13:25 Mm.

David Imel 13:25 Because you have a huge battery life-

Speaker 13:26 Yeah

David Imel 13:26 ... with constant information feeding to you.

Speaker 13:28 Yeah.

David Imel 13:28 And you do not carry a phone with you.

Speaker 13:30 You know what I, I did think about that, which is last year it was so easy for me to leave the Apple Watch because there was no black one.

Speaker 13:35 [laughs]

David Imel 13:36 [laughs] That's why?

Speaker 13:37 There was only, there was only dark blue.

David Imel 13:40 Okay. That's more niche to why you would buy it.

Speaker 13:41 Which is... It's, Series 11 is fine. It's a very nice watch.

David Imel 13:43 [laughs]

Speaker 13:43 And I didn't wanna wa- wear the Ultra, so I was like, they didn't have a black one. It's like, you know what? I could, I could leave the Apple Watch.

Speaker 13:47 [laughs]

Speaker 13:48 Now they have a Series 12 and it has all these new features, and it has one more data-

Speaker 13:52 And black

Speaker 13:52 ... and there's a black one. [laughs]

David Imel 13:53 Ooh.

Speaker 13:54 And so I, I do see a point, Andrew.

Speaker 13:55 My favorite new number one feature. [laughs]

David Imel 13:55 [laughs]

13:55 Do you miss having a screen?

Speaker 13:57 I don't.

Speaker 13:58 Yeah.

Speaker 13:58 I don't miss having a screen.

David Imel 13:59 This is what I'm saying.

Speaker 13:59 Yeah. No, I-

Speaker 14:00 As-

Speaker 14:00 Yeah, I think a lot of people are like, "Oh, my God, I can get all this without the annoyance of having a screen on my wrist."

David Imel 14:05 I think you guys are in our bubble too much.

14:07 I know, man.

Speaker 14:07 Yeah.

Speaker 14:07 Oh.

Speaker 14:07 No, I, I, I don't miss the screen.

David Imel 14:09 People ask me about the Fitbit Air all the time.

Speaker 14:10 Yeah, but I don't think people want the thing on their wrist.

David Imel 14:11 I think 'cause no one wants the Pixel Watch.

14:13 [laughs]

Speaker 14:13 The-

David Imel 14:14 I think you guys are all thinking of these watches that no one really wants.

14:16 No, but these are iPhone users

14:17 ... but the Apple Watch is the most popular watch in the world.

Speaker 14:20 Yeah.

David Imel 14:20 I mean, it, yeah.

14:21 I don't know. Yeah.

Speaker 14:21 Because watch is one category, and it's enormous, and this smaller but growing category of not a watch but a fitness tracker-

David Imel 14:29 Yeah

Speaker 14:29 ... the debate is how big is this category? Is it big enough to warrant Apple's attention to make something new?

David Imel 14:34 All right. Well-

14:34 Yeah

14:34 ... neither of us, so what's the bet? How many years until this comes out?

Speaker 14:37 [laughs] My, okay, max two.

Speaker 14:40 It's not gonna come.

David Imel 14:40 Max two?

Speaker 14:41 But I d- I do think it's gonna come out in a year.

David Imel 14:43 I don't think this comes out in two years.

Speaker 14:44 I think the, the-

David Imel 14:45 Whoa

Speaker 14:45 ... iPhone, Apple Watch event.

David Imel 14:45 Okay.

14:45 No shot.

14:46 What's the bet?

Speaker 14:46 No, it's not coming out ever.

David Imel 14:47 [laughs]

Speaker 14:47 Yeah, it's not coming out.

Speaker 14:48 What, what would a screen-less Apple Watch even be? Like, the whole thing about the Apple Watch is that-

Speaker 14:52 Well, it wouldn't be an Apple Watch.

David Imel 14:53 The amount of work they put into their bands is crazy.

Speaker 14:55 I know, but, like-

David Imel 14:55 I'm not saying they wouldn't make a good one. I'm just saying I don't think they're making it.

14:58 Imagine you just wear a, an Apple Watch bracelet-

Speaker 15:00 All-

David Imel 15:00 ... and it just has the tracking in it

Speaker 15:01 ... but don't all the, the screen-less ones already plug into Apple Health? Like, like, genuinely, what would be the, the offering there that-

Speaker 15:07 Apple would have to find a way-

David Imel 15:09 That I can't listen to you all the time

Speaker 15:09 ... to make theirs plug into the ecosystem better than everyone else's.

David Imel 15:14 Yeah.

Speaker 15:14 And you're right, a lot of these do dump the data into Apple Health already, which is a great point.

David Imel 15:17 That's a good point.

Speaker 15:17 And I wonder what Apple... If, if they were to jump in, I don't think there's any way they'd do it without finding something to add to theirs that no one else can do.

David Imel 15:25 I would argue everything they launched-

15:26 Mm

15:26 ... at this event is their, like, cool, stop buying that with your Apple Watch. You have it all on your Apple Watch now. There's no point of you getting a screen-less track-

Speaker 15:33 That did feel like-

David Imel 15:33 I agree with that.

Speaker 15:34 But-

David Imel 15:34 But I do think those are more targeted at the AI wearables that are gonna come out, which-

Speaker 15:38 Okay, let's talk about that

David Imel 15:38 ... let's get to that.

15:39 Oh, thank God.

Speaker 15:40 So-

David Imel 15:40 Wait, wait, wait. What's the bet?

15:40 [laughs]

15:41 Yeah, I just wanted the bet to end.

Speaker 15:42 Okay, what are the bets?

David Imel 15:42 [laughs]

15:42 Two years? What are we doing?

Speaker 15:43 A year from now.

David Imel 15:44 A year.

Speaker 15:44 They're gonna launch it at the iPhone 19 event.

David Imel 15:46 Wow.

Speaker 15:47 That's coming.

David Imel 15:47 All right, what's the, what's the, the stakes?

Speaker 15:50 Uh, I don't know.

David Imel 15:52 Okay.

Speaker 15:52 Embarrass me somehow.

David Imel 15:53 Um, no.

Speaker 15:54 [laughs]

David Imel 15:54 Embarrass you. [laughs]

15:54 We have to print out a full-size picture of the other person's face and put it on your laptop for a year.

Speaker 15:59 A year?

Speaker 15:59 A year?

David Imel 15:59 [laughs] A year.

16:00 I love that.

Speaker 16:01 I love it.

Speaker 16:01 I think you have to drive to work for a week with a full-size cardboard cutout of the other person in your car.

David Imel 16:05 [laughs]

16:05 [laughs]

Speaker 16:06 That's just to get by the DMV.

David Imel 16:07 Are you buying the cutout?

Speaker 16:08 Yeah.

Speaker 16:08 Yeah.

David Imel 16:09 Okay, deal.

16:09 [laughs]

Speaker 16:10 Look, if it makes the people who pass me on the highway think I have more friends than I do-

David Imel 16:13 [laughs]

Speaker 16:13 ... then that's a win for me.

Speaker 16:14 All right, perfect. We'll do that.

David Imel 16:15 Deal. Lane is gonna hate that.

16:16 [laughs]

Speaker 16:16 I'll do that.

Speaker 16:16 Or be very scared. [laughs]

Speaker 16:18 But be prepared to have a full-size David in your car-

David Imel 16:20 Okay

Speaker 16:20 ... all the time.

David Imel 16:21 Yeah.

Speaker 16:21 This is my other... And I'm not gonna say it's a conspiracy theory, but the more, the more I listen to Apple talk about this watch, these watches, and specifically the new features that they added which are sort of tied into the AI and software, the more I couldn't stop thinking about what we're expecting to come in this, uh, this standalone AI device race. So for those who don't know, the Series 12 Watch and the Series, or the Ultra 4-

Speaker 16:48 4

Speaker 16:48 ... have these new features where, uh, Siri, uh, taps into the S11 chip to essentially, and this is gonna be an oversimplification, but constantly be listening for conversations or words to be said in the Apple Watch's microphone.

Speaker 17:03 Yeah.

Speaker 17:03 And at any point, to summarize that for you in the Siri app. There's two features. There's one that's called, like, Live Rewind-

Speaker 17:12 Oh

Speaker 17:12 ... which is something just happened and I want a summary of the last 15 seconds. I hit a button on the watch, and because it's always processing data, it takes that raw 15 seconds of audio, processes it in the secure exclave, doesn't ever go to the cloud or leave your device unencrypted, but gives you a transcription-

Speaker 17:29 Yeah

Speaker 17:29 ... or a summary of what you were just listening to. It's gonna be hard to explain to the public without saying your watch is constantly listening to you.

Speaker 17:35 That's true.

Speaker 17:35 They're gonna try, but that's one of the features.

Speaker 17:37 Yeah.

David Imel 17:37 I know you like the other one more, but that demo to me felt so much like the what kind of dog is this, where you're taking the picture of the dog-

Speaker 17:44 [laughs]

David Imel 17:44 ... and the person standing right there. Like-

Speaker 17:46 Yeah

David Imel 17:46 ... please-

Speaker 17:47 Yeah

David Imel 17:47 ... read me the specials again while the waiter's standing right here.

Speaker 17:50 That was exactly-

David Imel 17:51 Like, "Hey, I missed that."

17:52 By the way, Andrew, in our briefing about this, multiple people were like, "Why wouldn't you just say can you say that again?"

Speaker 17:57 [laughs] I-

David Imel 17:57 And they were like, "You know, I don't know."

17:59 15 seconds just seems too short. Like, you're, the person's still there. You can just-

Speaker 18:02 Yeah

David Imel 18:02 ... clarify.

Speaker 18:03 You, okay, Apple is clearly very, very, very nervous about these features.

David Imel 18:07 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 18:07 They are both put under the audio intelligence umbrella, which is a new thing they're doing because they already have visual intelligence, smart branding.

David Imel 18:13 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 18:14 But they are so nervous because this is the thing the public's gonna freak out the most at. Um, like-

Speaker 18:19 It's opt-on, opt-in

David Imel 18:22 It's gonna be in beta.

Speaker 18:23 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 18:23 It's... Like, every question we would ask, they were like, "We're not really sure, and so give us feedback when you use it-

Speaker 18:31 Yeah

David Imel 18:31 ... and we'll see. We'll maybe adapt the way it works." So they are just, they are, like, they're stepping on coals right now. They're being very, very careful.

Speaker 18:38 Yeah. To-

Speaker 18:39 So-

Speaker 18:39 So that's-

Speaker 18:39 I just wanna say, there's a giant blowback already with meta glasses.

Speaker 18:43 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 18:43 Yeah.

Speaker 18:43 Having every watch in the world potentially recording people is gonna make a lot of people a lot nervous.

David Imel 18:48 They're so-

Speaker 18:48 I think, so meta glasses are videos and used in, people are wearing them in, like, bathrooms and stuff.

David Imel 18:53 Yeah.

Speaker 18:53 That's way weirder than having it on.

David Imel 18:55 Than a private conversation where the person's wearing a watch.

Speaker 18:56 It's... Li- listen, I'm not saying this is fantastic-

David Imel 18:58 Yeah

Speaker 18:58 ... and I agree with David that this is a very Apple...

David Imel 19:01 It is-

Speaker 19:02 Apple knows privacy is their thing.

David Imel 19:03 Yeah.

Speaker 19:03 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 19:03 They know they're trying to tiptoe on this-

David Imel 19:05 Yeah

Speaker 19:05 ... and make it as safe as possible, but yes, I think-

Speaker 19:07 I'm sorry, Andrew, can you say that one more time?

David Imel 19:08 [laughs]

Speaker 19:09 [laughs] As you hold up your wrist. Just a, real quick, the other feature is that if you have it enabled during the day, uh, in a s- on a separate new tab in the Siri app, there's a recap button-

David Imel 19:19 Yeah

Speaker 19:19 ... which will show you all day a sort of a summary of some transcriptions and important things you may wanna remember from your day. And once again, these are very difficult features to market-

David Imel 19:30 So hard

Speaker 19:30 ... without essentially saying your watch is always listening to you for your convenience.

Speaker 19:35 'Cause it is.

Speaker 19:36 So-

David Imel 19:36 [laughs]

Speaker 19:37 Yeah

Speaker 19:37 ... that being said, I hear all of this, and then you think about w- what is, what are these rumors we've all been seeing about, like, oh, OpenAI-

Speaker 19:44 Yeah

Speaker 19:45 ... is gonna come out with some piece of hardware, and their angle is gonna be something where essentially it's listening to you all the time to deliver some feedback or some value to you with AI processing that information. That is at least looming on the horizon, and I think Apple, with all of these features in the watch, has decided that this is their way of offering the equivalent of that before the OpenAI device comes out.

David Imel 20:09 Yes.

Speaker 20:09 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 20:10 And trying their best with the privacy angle of, okay, with the S11 chip and the secure enclave and the encryption-

David Imel 20:17 Yes

Speaker 20:17 ... and all of the way that we're processing it. I need to get, like, an exact explanation of how this feature actually works-

David Imel 20:22 Yeah

Speaker 20:22 ... and how they explain it to the public just to see how it lines up. But that's the other theory, which is, like, the Apple Watches are specifically... Like, there are teams of people working on these products, and there's definitely a group in a room that's like, "We kill Whoop with this." And then there's definitely also a group in a room that's like, "We get ahead of OpenAI's new thing with this."

David Imel 20:42 Yeah, it's right down the hall. We pass them in the way.

Speaker 20:44 [laughs]

Speaker 20:44 [laughs] Yeah.

David Imel 20:44 Yeah.

Speaker 20:45 So it is fascinating to see them, like, nervously go, "I, I guess we have to do this with the watch," and here it is.

David Imel 20:52 They made a big deal about the privacy stuff, but it, a lot of it is, like, very hard to explain to the public-

Speaker 20:58 And, oh, yeah

David Imel 20:58 ... and even to me 'cause I still don't really understand. Like, they say, like-

Speaker 21:01 I got texts from people that were like, "I don't like that feature."

David Imel 21:04 Wow, yeah. I mean-

Speaker 21:05 Just straight up, that's the one thing they didn't like.

David Imel 21:07 They say Apple does not create or store audio recordings, which I guess I, I...

Speaker 21:12 What is a recording? [laughs]

David Imel 21:13 Like, this is, this is-

Speaker 21:14 What, what is a recording? [laughs]

David Imel 21:14 What is a photo, people?

Speaker 21:15 Yeah, yeah.

David Imel 21:16 This is literally what is a photo because it is taking... When we asked them about this, we're like, "How do you do that?" They're like, "Oh, we're, we're looking for signals." And I was like, "Yeah. Words are signals, bro."

Speaker 21:27 [laughs]

David Imel 21:27 Like, I don't, I don't really understand.

Speaker 21:30 Yeah.

David Imel 21:30 They're kinda reworking the way that this is explained to people.

Speaker 21:33 I almost wanna try to explain it now, but I, I almost know I'm gonna get part of it wrong.

David Imel 21:37 Yes.

Speaker 21:37 But it's like there are always sounds happening and feeding into the microphone, kind of the same way your Google Home sits on your desk at home-

David Imel 21:44 Yes

Speaker 21:44 ... and isn't technically always recording, or the way your Pixel sits on your desk and isn't always listening all the time. But when either a-

David Imel 21:53 Is it-

Speaker 21:53 ... a song starts playing or you say, "Hey," the magic hey G words, it, it, the technology is good enough to, without recording you all the time-

David Imel 22:02 That's... Yeah

Speaker 22:02 ... understand that that is a trigger to start recording you. I-

Speaker 22:04 No, but it, David is right, though, 'cause it is record-

Speaker 22:07 It is.

David Imel 22:08 Exactly.

Speaker 22:08 It's unprocessed.

Speaker 22:08 It is, there's a memory buffer being filled.

Speaker 22:11 So-

David Imel 22:11 Yeah.

Speaker 22:11 Yes, yes

David Imel 22:11 ... I think this is the, I think this is the technicality-

Speaker 22:13 Yeah

David Imel 22:13 ... is it's the memory buffer.

Speaker 22:15 Yes.

David Imel 22:15 They're like, "It's not stored, but it's put in-

Speaker 22:17 Well

David Imel 22:17 ... RAM, and then we dump it out of RAM." And I think that-

Speaker 22:20 When you ask for it or when it identifies a signal in it.

David Imel 22:23 RAM is storage, and storage is RAM, basically.

Speaker 22:26 Which is true.

David Imel 22:26 You know?

Speaker 22:26 That's why they have to explain it very carefully.

David Imel 22:29 It's... [laughs]

Speaker 22:29 [laughs]

Speaker 22:29 Also, every example you just gave, no one believes. Everyone thinks my phone is listening to me all the time.

Speaker 22:35 I... Yeah.

David Imel 22:35 Yeah.

Speaker 22:35 My homepod-

Speaker 22:35 We do hear that a lot

Speaker 22:36 ... or my Google is listening to me all the time, so-

David Imel 22:38 Yeah.

Speaker 22:38 Yeah

Speaker 22:38 ... we're just in the stage where we kind of assume if it has an on button-

David Imel 22:41 Yeah

Speaker 22:41 ... it's listening to us.

Speaker 22:42 [sighs]

Speaker 22:43 I don't know. I, I'm thinking about this more 'cause we do know that a lot of those devices are. Like, there've been enough, like, leaks of data centers, like, oh, pe- recordings of people's homes have come out. But maybe there is a wacky, wacky world where-

Speaker 22:55 [laughs]

Speaker 22:56 ... none of this audio is getting written to a buffer. It's getting passed through an A to D converter, and every bit is getting analyzed in real time and then, and then dumped, but it's never getting written.

David Imel 23:04 That's what they say is happening. Um-

Speaker 23:06 My thought was just it's not storing audio recordings, it's just transcribing every time it hears words, and now I have a transcription of things.

Speaker 23:12 But I don't-

Speaker 23:12 Does that count as an audio storage?

Speaker 23:14 I don't think you can do a transcription without filling a buffer. I think that needs to go backwards and forwards through bits.

David Imel 23:18 I mean, yeah, they have to process data in order to... Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 23:21 It has to be processed if it's giving you a daily brief-

Speaker 23:23 Yeah

Speaker 23:24 ... at the end of the day.

Speaker 23:24 They gave a lot of credit-

Speaker 23:25 It needs to understand what you were saying.

Speaker 23:27 They gave a lot of credit to the S11 chip in-

David Imel 23:30 Yes

Speaker 23:30 ... their explanations of it-

David Imel 23:32 Yes

Speaker 23:32 ... specifically in these watches, which is that there is this new part of the chip which does a lot of this processing, that doesn't touch the other parts of the chip or the other memory-

David Imel 23:40 Yeah

Speaker 23:40 ... of the system, never goes to your phone, et cetera. So that's what I wanna dig into in trying to understand how this all works.

David Imel 23:46 Yeah.

Speaker 23:46 I will say if there's any company that the general public might trust to pull this off, it's maybe Apple.

David Imel 23:52 It is.

Speaker 23:52 Which is why they can't mess it up.

Speaker 23:54 Which is, yeah, why it's important that they-

David Imel 23:55 Yeah

Speaker 23:55 ... explain it clearly, et cetera.

David Imel 23:57 Yeah, which is why they call it a secure enclave, too. That's, like, the whole reason it's an enclave and not an enclave, 'cause it's, like, separated from the rest of the chip.

Speaker 24:04 Yeah.

David Imel 24:04 And they have, like, an always-on processor going on. They also made a big deal about the fact that the, you can never access the raw data.

Speaker 24:11 Mm.

David Imel 24:11 Like, there is no way to access, like, the sound data that is happening, either from a third party, from Apple themselves, et cetera. There are no speaker labels, so, like, when you get those transcriptions and stuff, they don't want you to be able to be like, "Oh, Andrew said that," or, "David said that."

Speaker 24:24 Oh, okay.

David Imel 24:24 And that's, I think, a big deal because people... Like, again, it's not only the person that's wearing the watch that has to be nervous. It's everyone around you. Like, when you see meta glasses and you're like, "Oh, God."

Speaker 24:34 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 24:35 They, Apple doesn't want a situation where people see an Apple Watch and they're like, "I can't say anything."

Speaker 24:39 That would be worst case.

David Imel 24:40 That would be worst case. Um, it's also end-to-end encrypted. The other thing is they said you can set it up so that it only goes during certain times of the day or during certain focus modes.

Speaker 24:51 That was the most confusing to me-

David Imel 24:53 That's very cool

Speaker 24:54 ... because if I remember correctly in the event, they said something like, "You control when it's on," which to me immediately says-

David Imel 25:00 ... record, stop recording.

25:01 Which there is a button-

Speaker 25:02 They also have that

David Imel 25:02 ... there is, yeah.

25:03 Yeah.

25:03 And that's-

25:04 Yeah

25:04 ... that's like a Plaud, a Meeting Notes-

Speaker 25:06 Yes

David Imel 25:06 ... kind of like AI device thing of like, let's do this conversation.

25:10 Plaud's the first one you went to?

Speaker 25:12 Plaud.

David Imel 25:12 Plaud.

25:12 Well, probably because they've sponsored the [laughs] podcast before, disclosure. Um, but, uh, but then it was like, oh, or maybe you just don't want it running at night. I was like, hold on. That's a very different thing. [laughs]

Speaker 25:23 Yeah.

David Imel 25:23 Does that... So this means it's running, and now you-

Speaker 25:26 I mean, again-

David Imel 25:26 ... you set up when you don't want it running

Speaker 25:27 ... recording, running, it's like-

David Imel 25:29 Yeah.

25:29 Yeah.

Speaker 25:29 I think they're-

Speaker 25:30 Wait, no, this is good though, 'cause now we can definitively know there's no ghosts. We're, we're right on the edge.

David Imel 25:35 [laughs]

Speaker 25:35 If it's running all night, paranormal activity could have lit- never been made.

Speaker 25:39 Can you imagine waking up and seeing like an AI summary that's like, "Ghosts were having conversations"-

David Imel 25:43 [laughs]

25:43 [laughs]

Speaker 25:43 That's what I'm saying. Now we'll know. Also, quick, quick correction.

Speaker 25:46 I know I sleep talk every night.

Speaker 25:47 The most Apple way possible, um, the secure enclave was actually part of M4 and A18.

Speaker 25:53 But this is an exclave.

Speaker 25:54 Sorry, exclave. I, I misspoke.

Speaker 25:56 Okay.

Speaker 25:56 But, um, I, I think they just, just declined to mention it until, uh-

Speaker 26:00 Huh

Speaker 26:00 ... until this generation. I'm, I'm pretty sure-

David Imel 26:02 Or this is-

Speaker 26:03 I know they have a new pro- part of the processor that is separate from the rest of the chip.

Speaker 26:06 Totally, but I think they've been doing this processing on a separate part of the chip since M4 and 18. I'm like trying to find the exact confirmation, but when you s- Google around Apple exclave, there's articles a year and a half old about it.

Speaker 26:18 Okay. Interesting. Yeah.

David Imel 26:19 Well, this is all under the audio intelligence umbrella.

Speaker 26:22 Yeah.

Speaker 26:22 Yes.

David Imel 26:23 So they are going to be walking very slowly, testing this stuff. It's opt-in. You can decide when to have it on. I do think that having it on in certain focus modes is kind of a cool idea.

26:33 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 26:33 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 26:34 And again, this is a direct shot at all the dedicated AI hardware, and I think that there's a lot of things throughout this event, and we'll get to more of it.

Speaker 26:41 Yeah. The first 20 minutes.

David Imel 26:42 Well, the first 20 minutes, where it-

26:43 [laughs]

26:44 ... felt like John Ternus was just like, "Yeah, you guys could go do your fun little thing." Like, he talked... Okay, he talked about the phone. He r- said that the phone was something else. What, what did he call it? Your intelligent-

Speaker 26:56 Intelligent hub

David Imel 26:56 ... personal hub.

Speaker 26:58 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 26:58 That's what he called it, and I completely agree with that, because I've always called my phone David's PDA, 'cause you know how you can name your phone.

Speaker 27:04 [laughs]

David Imel 27:04 Because phones are not just phones. They're, they're everything now, right?

Speaker 27:08 Yeah.

David Imel 27:08 So his point was like, all the... We have a bunch of computers all over your body, and they can do everything that this dedicated AI hardware can do.

Speaker 27:16 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 27:16 So why would you ever buy that? And I feel like, to your point, Marques, of getting ahead of OpenAI, he's just trying to plant that in people's heads.

Speaker 27:23 And I th-

David Imel 27:23 You don't need dedicated hardware.

Speaker 27:24 And I tend to think he's right.

David Imel 27:26 I do too.

Speaker 27:26 Like this is one... This is what happened when I, when I reviewed the Humane pin, which is Hu- And we talk about Humane all the time, but their fatal flaw/decision they had to make was do we want this product to live alone without ever having to talk to your phone? Because one, we know we're not Apple and we cannot talk to the phone the same way Apple accessories can, and two, if we want this product to be used all the time and to collect all the information and whatever, we want the user to wear it all day and have it actually be useful, we need it to be with them even when their phone's not with them and useful even when their phone's not with them. And so it has to live separate from the phone. As soon as it lives separate from the phone, it loses all the context of the phone.

David Imel 28:07 Yeah.

Speaker 28:07 Doesn't know any of your contacts.

David Imel 28:08 Yeah.

Speaker 28:08 Doesn't know any of your history. It doesn't know any of your information, and it has to do all of that, and that was where it was doomed. And that's why my conclusion, and a lot of other people were like, "Oh yeah, smartphones are still, uh, pretty great."

David Imel 28:19 Gotcha.

Speaker 28:19 And they can, they are a better starting point for whatever AI assistance you want in your life.

David Imel 28:24 I, two things. One, I think Humane had like 17 fatal flaws. Let's not-

Speaker 28:28 Agree

David Imel 28:28 ... just say it's one thing. [laughs]

Speaker 28:29 Agree. But I do think that was like one of the-

David Imel 28:31 That was like the only thing. [laughs]

Speaker 28:31 ... fundamental ones.

David Imel 28:32 Yeah.

Speaker 28:32 Yeah.

David Imel 28:33 And yeah, it's, everyone keeps talking about dedicated, we're gonna get this dedicated AI thing. Uh, Apple's like, "We're on every single person in the US pretty much already. We can just add this stuff to it-"

28:43 Well-

28:43 "... and you're wearing it already. You don't need an extra thing."

28:45 And the entire, the only thing that makes all of this new wave of AI stuff work is context, and every single piece of digital context that goes through your life goes through your freaking phone.

Speaker 28:54 It's already on your phone. Yeah.

David Imel 28:56 You can't just do that with a new piece of hardware. Like, you'd have to-

Speaker 28:59 Yeah

David Imel 28:59 ... fully commit every single service in your life to going through this new piece of hardware, which no one can do.

29:04 And carry it with you all the time.

29:06 Carry it with you all the time. Like, OpenAI's supposedly, allegedly making a speaker that you're supposed to carry around with you. Like, come on, guys.

29:13 Yeah. [laughs]

29:14 It's a Bluetooth speaker that you carry around with you?

Speaker 29:16 Yeah.

David Imel 29:17 Anyway.

29:17 Wi-Fi speaker, David. [laughs]

Speaker 29:19 [laughs]

David Imel 29:20 Wi-Fi speaker. Okay. We, uh, I'm, I wanna just really quickly mention the actual physical new changes to the watches-

29:26 How dare you

29:27 ... before we move on. Uh, so-

29:29 Ceramic. There it is

29:29 ... Series 12, there's new ceramic, which Brandon is super happy about.

29:33 So is Rich.

Speaker 29:34 So is Rich.

David Imel 29:34 Yeah.

Speaker 29:34 Sort of.

David Imel 29:35 Which is very happy about. They have a pearl white version and a night blue version.

Speaker 29:38 Mm.

David Imel 29:38 They're much more expensive. They're 899.

Speaker 29:41 Yep.

David Imel 29:41 Wow.

29:41 As opposed to the 399 of the aluminum. [laughs] Um, there's also a, there's new, two new natural options for the aluminum, which is like a natural gold and a, one that's just called nat- It's radiant gold, and one's just called natural. Those are 300 bucks more than the r- the regular one, which is, they're all kind of expensive.

29:59 Wait, the ceramic's more expensive than the Ultra 4?

30:02 Yeah.

30:02 [laughs]

Speaker 30:02 Yes.

David Imel 30:02 No, it's the same... Oh yeah, it is.

Speaker 30:04 It's 100 bucks more than the base.

David Imel 30:05 Oh, 100 bucks.

Speaker 30:05 Yeah.

David Imel 30:06 So that's kinda crazy.

30:07 [laughs]

30:07 I don't know. Whatever. There's-

Speaker 30:08 They're doing the thing where they offer a whole bunch of prices, a whole bunch of colors and finishes, and you just kinda pick which one you like.

David Imel 30:13 Yeah.

Speaker 30:13 We saw a band for the Watch Ultra-

David Imel 30:16 [laughs]

30:16 I mean-

Speaker 30:16 ... that was titanium

David Imel 30:17 ... we always saw that. Yeah.

Speaker 30:18 It's a Hermes titanium band.

David Imel 30:19 Those are always... Yeah.

Speaker 30:21 It was $2,200?

David Imel 30:21 Yeah.

30:21 What?

30:22 For the band?

Speaker 30:23 That happens every year.

David Imel 30:24 That's it?

Speaker 30:24 You can-

David Imel 30:25 No, but-

Speaker 30:25 You can get in there deep with those-

Speaker 30:26 That's what I... Yeah

Speaker 30:26 ... those watch bands, man.

David Imel 30:28 Okay. Ultra 4, um-

30:28 Wait, real quick.

30:29 Yeah.

30:29 Just on Series 12.

30:30 Yes.

30:31 Rich noticed very specifically that it seems like the crown is almost like offset-

Speaker 30:35 Mm-hmm

David Imel 30:35 ... in all the stuff they showed on it. Did it, did you guys notice that at all?

Speaker 30:38 Offset in what way?

David Imel 30:39 It's like the, it's always like sitting flush right across the... I'm doing hand gestures on a podcast, [laughs] but-

Speaker 30:44 But like offset

David Imel 30:45 ... like you could almost see-

Speaker 30:46 On a YouTube channel

David Imel 30:46 ... the gap in between it

Speaker 30:47 ... there, there was a gap between the bottom of the crown and the wall of the watch in the, in the renders that they had in the event.

Speaker 30:51 That, on the event screen.

David Imel 30:52 We'll have to look at that when we get the band.

Speaker 30:53 Like a, mm.

David Imel 30:54 It's so minuscule, but-

Speaker 30:55 It was not a large gap-

David Imel 30:55 Yeah

Speaker 30:55 ... but it was the, the crown was not flush against-

Speaker 30:58 Little poke in

Speaker 30:58 ... the body of the watch.

David Imel 30:59 It's one of those things where you see this for-

Speaker 31:00 12 generations.

Speaker 31:01 Yeah

Speaker 31:01 You're like, "Wait a minute. That looks different."

Speaker 31:03 I also need to take a look at some- something I noticed during the hands-on time is it seemed like the bezels were slightly bigger, but I think what it... I was doing research on this, and what it actually seemed like was that they made the body slightly larger of the-

Speaker 31:15 Mm.

Speaker 31:15 Mm-hmm ... of the d- so, and so the bezels feel bigger compared to the display. But I do think it's notable-

Speaker 31:20 Huh

Speaker 31:20 ... that the new Apple Watch wallpaper, the, like, built-in wallpaper, is just a black OLED screen with, like s- a few pieces of information.

Speaker 31:27 Mm.

Speaker 31:27 Mm. And it seems like every time they do that, it's to hide the [laughs] bezel size.

Speaker 31:31 Mm.

Speaker 31:31 Hmm. So we'll check that out when we actually get it, but, um-

Speaker 31:34 Yeah, I'll check it out

Speaker 31:35 ... you know, I-

Speaker 31:35 I'm not too worried

Speaker 31:36 ... I'm not too worried, but okay, Ultra 4, uh, same $800 price. It has a larger battery. Now they say over two days of battery life, which I think is a big deal for them. And, uh, specifically aimed at Garmin and a couple of these other companies, they now have a max extended workout mode, which gives you 45 hours of battery life, which they said is enough for ultra-marathons. [laughs]

Speaker 31:57 [laughs]

Speaker 31:57 They hit us with a 100-mile run. Yeah. They're like, "This is good enough for running 100 miles," which I think is the final boss. I don't think you get any more- [laughs] ... intense of a long workout- Yeah ... than this will last you a 100-mile run. Yeah. So I think we've done it. Yeah. I think we've gotten there. Yeah. And I think this is funny because when the first Ultra came out, if you remember, we interviewed, um, what-

Speaker 32:16 Hella

Speaker 32:16 ... Hella, yeah. And he specifically was like, "Yeah, I have to pass my Apple Watch off to my team to charge while I'm running because it won't last 100 miles." Wow. So I feel like this is, like, directly targeted at those people who have to buy other devices specifically to, for one task. Yeah. Which is just, you know, funny and whatever. Um- You can hot swap Apple Watches.

Speaker 32:37 What?

Speaker 32:38 You can? Yeah. Did you know that?

Speaker 32:40 No.

Speaker 32:40 Do you need to know-

Speaker 32:40 Marques is the only person that knows that in the whole world

Speaker 32:42 ... during an exercise? Uh, I don't... Oh, that's a good point. Probably not during the exercise. You have to probably end the exercise. Yeah, you probably lose, like, 10 seconds of data. Yeah. Like- Well, yeah, but then you start a new workout, and it's like, why is your heart rate 300 BPM? [laughs] Yeah. Uh, are you dying? Okay. [laughs] We have so much left to get to, um, but we really have to take an ad break, so. Let's take a quick break, which means-

Speaker 33:01 Mm

Speaker 33:01 ... we didn't forget. It's time for trivia. [upbeat music]

Speaker 33:09 [laughs]

Speaker 33:09 [laughs] This is crazy. You guys don't know, but for some reason, the audio for us-

Speaker 33:13 I think there-

Speaker 33:13 ... is, like, too bit. It is very weird

Speaker 33:14 ... there's, like, a loose cable somewhere.

Speaker 33:16 Yeah.

Speaker 33:16 That's, like, the only explanation.

Speaker 33:17 And it's hilarious. It's- It sounds like there's someone in the next room playing the sound. [laughs]

Speaker 33:20 Right.

Speaker 33:21 I vote you leave it.

Speaker 33:22 Should I just leave it? We'll see. We'll see.

Speaker 33:23 I'm so scared of, were you paying attention every year.

Speaker 33:25 Um, you guy- Here's the thing.

Speaker 33:26 I'm not gonna get it.

Speaker 33:27 You guys were paying attention.

Speaker 33:28 Yeah.

Speaker 33:28 I've rewritten this question, like, three times-

Speaker 33:30 Yeah

Speaker 33:30 ... because my question was just discussed, so.

Speaker 33:33 Oh.

Speaker 33:34 Way to go. But-

Speaker 33:35 Nice

Speaker 33:35 ... I do have one.

Speaker 33:36 Okay. Okay

Speaker 33:37 ... uh, early on in their event, Apple noted how many Siri requests they get per day.

Speaker 33:42 Oh, they did.

Speaker 33:43 Did they?

Speaker 33:44 Prices- Yes.

Speaker 33:45 I do.

Speaker 33:45 [laughs] And I remember when they said it, I was like, are all of those intentional requests? I was doing-

Speaker 33:50 Ooh.

Speaker 33:50 Oh, that's a good point.

Speaker 33:51 That's such a good point. I was trying-

Speaker 33:52 I was trying to do the math, I was like, is this only, like, averaging two people, two requests a day?

Speaker 33:56 [laughs] Whoa. Never mind.

Speaker 33:58 Anyway. How many?

Speaker 33:59 Price Is Right rules.

Speaker 34:00 Mm.

Speaker 34:00 How many times do people query Siri?

Speaker 34:02 Is that, like, the amount of total Siri requests they get? Yes. Not- Okay ... individual people. Total que- Okay ... requests they get every day.

Speaker 34:09 Yeah.

Speaker 34:09 They did say it.

Speaker 34:09 Mm.

Speaker 34:10 They did say it. I was, I just wanna tell you, I was paying attention. I love-

Speaker 34:13 You can't prove it.

Speaker 34:15 I just don't remember this number at all. [laughs] Based on the answers, you can't prove it.

Speaker 34:17 I've written this question so many times, 'cause you guys were f- actually paying amazing attention.

Speaker 34:21 My, my, uh, my knowledge of the Apple keynote is, like, in these chunks of, like, hyper-focus- Yes ... and then taking-

Speaker 34:29 Yes

Speaker 34:29 ... a quick 12-second break to t- live tweet- Yes ... and write things down.

Speaker 34:32 Mm.

Speaker 34:32 And then hyper-focusing. And that is where the magic happens. That's where I'm most scared of the question being-

Speaker 34:36 Yeah

Speaker 34:36 ... 'cause then I'm hyper-focusing and I'm like, I know I just heard something interesting 12 seconds ago. Dude. I don't have the feature on my watch. Yeah. [laughs] I have no idea what they said. When I was re- when I was writing the podcast last night, the notes, I went back and, like, watched the different segments of the keynote, and I was like, "I don't remember this." [laughs] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 34:51 Yeah.

Speaker 34:51 Because we're just, yeah, we're, like, taking f- quick photos, tweeting, we're, like, taking notes, and, like, you, you're not paying as much attention as you- Our TV turned off halfway through.

Speaker 34:58 Oh, yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 34:59 And when it turned back on-

Speaker 35:00 Yeah, we had to, like, emergency switch to a laptop.

Speaker 35:02 That's funny.

Speaker 35:03 Also, the TV, we, we were so confused because the TV had really bad color accuracy, and so it looked like John Ternus was wearing all black.

Speaker 35:11 Oh.

Speaker 35:11 And then we flip on-

Speaker 35:12 Kept seeing, like, screenshots of him

Speaker 35:13 ... or, like, we'd flip on Speed Stream and he was wearing a red shirt, and we were like, is there an outfit change-

Speaker 35:18 [laughs]

Speaker 35:18 ... that we have yet to get to?

Speaker 35:20 Whoa. A red shirt. Wow. That's wild. Anyway.

Speaker 35:22 Excuse me.

Speaker 35:23 A burgundy.

Speaker 35:23 A burgundy.

Speaker 35:23 Were you paying attention?

Speaker 35:25 They missed out... I know we have to go to... I wish they called it oxblood. I think that would have been-

Speaker 35:28 [laughs] I, I... Okay, well, I'll never get a job at Apple now. It's for sure one of the purples. I don't disagree.

Speaker 35:32 [laughs]

Speaker 35:33 That would be amazing. Okay. All right, well. Anyway, we'll think about that. Answers will be at the end, like usual. We'll be right back.

Speaker 35:38 Oxblood. [upbeat music]

Speaker 35:47 This episode is in partnership with Airbnb. You know you don't need an excuse to travel. Travel is a joy in and of itself, and it should be immersive, not just about the tourist landmarks. It's about getting to know the people and the culture. It's about seeing the world through fresh eyes. Airbnb really is the perfect way to do that. I've used Airbnb, actually, to book a lot of stays all over the world. I've used it for tech events, also for ultimate Frisbee tournaments, and for vacations around the US, and it's just a comfortable way to get to, get that unique experience wherever you travel. Like, for example, right here in sunny California, where I've experienced, uh, phenomenal cuisine. My favorite-

Speaker 36:18 Like what?

Speaker 36:19 In-N-Out. [laughs] But for real, booking a place with Airbnb makes traveling so much easier and so much more unique. Whether I'm traveling by myself or with my Frisbee team, I always look for places to stay through Airbnb. When you explore new cultures and meet new people, you discover new things about yourself, and Airbnb is the best way to book your perfect stay

Speaker 36:36 for your next adventure. Support for the show comes from Granola. You ever have that sinking feeling where a meeting ends and everyone's nodding along in agreement, but then the next day you're digging through your notes and you realize you forgot everything you're actually supposed to do? That's where Granola can come to the rescue. Granola is an AI-powered notepad that makes your meeting notes useful. It captures what happens in your meetings and turns it into clean, structured notes with decisions and action items pulled out and made easy to find. Granola integrates seamlessly with how you already work. No setup or configuration or friction. Your messy meeting calls become something you can actually reference weeks later when your notes are searchable and organized and actionable. This way, you get better notes in a central place while you get to stay present in your meetings without the extra work. Once you try it in your first meeting, it's hard to go without it, and you can try it totally free. Head to granola.ai/wave. That's granola.ai/wave to get your time back. Go to granola.ai/wave to try it on your next call. All right, welcome back.

Speaker 37:30 You've made it this far into the podcast, you deserve iPhone chalk talk.

David Imel 37:33 Chalk.

Speaker 37:33 [laughs] I'm gonna start that over.

David Imel 37:34 Yeah, yeah.

37:35 I like that.

37:35 Why? [laughs]

37:35 I'll take chalk.

Speaker 37:36 All right, chalk. We're talking.

David Imel 37:37 Chalk.

Speaker 37:37 Now, we're- you deserve the iPhone talk. Uh, iPhone 18 Pro, Pro Max, and iPhone Duo. I guess since we're doing an order of most changes-

David Imel 37:46 Least

Speaker 37:46 ... we should save the, the Fold for last, so the 18 Pros.

David Imel 37:50 18 Pros.

Speaker 37:51 There's only a few really significant changes, and if you wanna even call them significant. Like-

David Imel 37:55 Yeah

Speaker 37:55 ... new colors. They always do that.

David Imel 37:56 Yeah.

Speaker 37:57 They have, uh, the obvious new one, which is-

David Imel 38:00 They have two obvious new ones

Speaker 38:00 ... oxblood-

David Imel 38:01 [laughs]

38:01 [laughs]

Speaker 38:01 ... is what we're calling... [laughs]

David Imel 38:03 Yeah. It's a, it's like a, like the color of leather, like you stain leather oxblood.

Speaker 38:06 I think it's a good visual for people. But it's also burgundy, it's like deep-

David Imel 38:09 It's the client one

Speaker 38:10 ... wine red.

David Imel 38:10 Wine red

Speaker 38:11 ... wine red.

David Imel 38:11 It's wine.

Speaker 38:12 Yeah. So that's... I think that feels like the flagship-

David Imel 38:14 Merlot

Speaker 38:14 ... new color. There's also a glacier, which is like David's pants, maybe lighter than-

David Imel 38:18 Yeah

Speaker 38:18 ... it's like light blue, sky blue.

David Imel 38:20 Yeah.

38:20 Sky blue.

Speaker 38:21 Silver-

David Imel 38:21 If your Kelvin value is the same as ours, then yes. [laughs]

Speaker 38:23 Exactly.

David Imel 38:24 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 38:24 Uh, silver and, uh-

David Imel 38:26 And silver is a little different.

38:28 The silver is better-

38:28 This year

38:29 ... this year.

Speaker 38:29 You're right

David Imel 38:29 ... Ellis disagrees with you, but, uh, the silver is better this year.

Speaker 38:32 It's more uniform.

David Imel 38:33 Do I disagree?

Speaker 38:33 'Cause the last, the last silver one had, like, the glass cut out for wireless charging and everything. It was white.

David Imel 38:37 Mm-hmm.

38:37 Yeah.

Speaker 38:38 Now it's just more uniform.

David Imel 38:40 I, I like-

38:40 A closer color match

38:41 ... I liked my two-tone iPhone. I, I thought that was cool.

38:43 Ellis called it the panda yesterday, and I was like-

Speaker 38:45 Mm

David Imel 38:45 ... you don't-

Speaker 38:46 You don't understand

David Imel 38:46 ... you cannot, no.

38:46 My sweet summer child.

38:47 Yeah.

Speaker 38:48 There have been panda phones in the past.

David Imel 38:49 There's a panda phone-

38:50 Yeah

38:50 ... and it's a Pixel.

38:51 I had a panda iPhone 4S when my fingerprint reader went bad, and I replaced it with a white one-

Speaker 38:56 [laughs] See, you see-

David Imel 38:56 ... a white one

Speaker 38:57 ... you keep saying panda, but like-

David Imel 38:58 Yeah

Speaker 38:58 ... that's some contrast

David Imel 38:59 That... I need the word

Speaker 38:59 ... we used to have panda phones.

David Imel 39:01 That's true.

39:01 Like the soft panda.

Speaker 39:02 Like the Pixel 2 was-

David Imel 39:03 Back when you guys were crossing the Oregon Trail.

Speaker 39:05 [laughs]

David Imel 39:06 [laughs] I mean, Pixel 2 days, we were crossing the Oregon Trail, bro.

Speaker 39:09 Yeah, it felt like it.

David Imel 39:10 There was a lot, there was a lot going on back then.

Speaker 39:11 You could squeeze your phone back then.

David Imel 39:12 That's true. [laughs]

Speaker 39:14 Um-

David Imel 39:14 We had a few years before-

Speaker 39:15 Anyway, yeah. New gray, silver.

David Imel 39:16 You could squeeze your phone.

Speaker 39:17 Um, but there's also a all matte black phone, and I just gotta say, that's the one that's calling my name. A lot of people have been asking me, I'm just spoiling it now, "Are you gonna get a Fold, Marques?" I think I'm gonna get a matte black Pro.

David Imel 39:27 Damn.

Speaker 39:28 Uh, so there's new colors.

David Imel 39:28 That's the second time he's mentioned the only thing he cares about-

Speaker 39:30 I just wanna make it clear

David Imel 39:31 ... is the color black. [laughs]

Speaker 39:32 That's what's selling me.

David Imel 39:33 What is it about phone manufacturers this year and making matte black? 'Cause Google did it, too.

Speaker 39:36 Uh, [clears throat] they are finally listening to me.

David Imel 39:38 [laughs]

39:38 'Cause-

Speaker 39:39 Yeah.

David Imel 39:39 It only took-

Speaker 39:40 They're finally-

David Imel 39:41 ... most of your lifetime

Speaker 39:42 ... they tuned in.

David Imel 39:43 Eventually.

Speaker 39:43 They're tuned in, yeah.

David Imel 39:44 Fair, fair enough.

Speaker 39:45 Uh, new chip inside, so A20 Pro chip. So we, again, we're just getting the Pro phones, no baseline phones. So A20 Pro chip, it's a two nanometer chip now.

David Imel 39:52 Speed's favorite feature.

Speaker 39:54 Um, yeah. [laughs]

David Imel 39:55 I just wanna really quickly-

39:56 Why? [laughs]

39:56 ... we didn't mention that Speed was here.

Speaker 39:57 Speed was here.

David Imel 39:58 The couple clips we saw from his stream were very funny.

Speaker 40:01 It is truly-

David Imel 40:01 I appreciate how much effort he put into it.

Speaker 40:03 He's a great example of free will, man. [laughs]

David Imel 40:05 He's so good. He's so good.

Speaker 40:06 He-

David Imel 40:06 Yeah.

Speaker 40:06 He, he went up to Jon Ternes, took the phone out of his hand, and did a back flip.

David Imel 40:10 [laughs]

Speaker 40:11 In the hands-on area.

David Imel 40:12 Yeah.

Speaker 40:12 That was amazing.

David Imel 40:13 That was... This man did not know-

Speaker 40:14 I just wanna say-

David Imel 40:14 ... it was dangerous.

40:15 So what Adam's referencing is he's, like, looking at the Fold on the, the ha- in the hands-on-

40:19 I saw it

40:19 ... on the, like, thing. And he just goes, "It's so thin. It's, it's so thin. It's 'cause of the A20-

Speaker 40:24 [laughs]

David Imel 40:24 ... and all the compatible components-

Speaker 40:26 [laughs]

David Imel 40:27 ... and, uh, C2." And I was like, "You are the greatest entertainer ever alive." [laughs]

40:30 That's, that's the equivalent of Jimmy Fallon going, "Ten to sir."

Speaker 40:35 [laughs] Is actually exactly the equivalent, yeah.

David Imel 40:36 It was even good 'cause, uh, the C2 is a modem, right?

Speaker 40:39 Yeah.

David Imel 40:39 Like, no one has ever made a modem entertaining.

Speaker 40:42 No.

David Imel 40:42 Yeah.

Speaker 40:42 I can see that he, he-

David Imel 40:43 No

Speaker 40:43 ... probably got pre... Anyway, he, he was-

David Imel 40:45 He got brief. He was doing his best

40:46 ... he watched the whole event.

Speaker 40:46 He was doing his best.

David Imel 40:47 Yeah.

Speaker 40:47 Yeah.

David Imel 40:48 All right, so-

Speaker 40:48 Um, but-

David Imel 40:48 The t- it's, like, based on the M6 'cause the M6 was two nanometers, so they're using that technology, that process.

Speaker 40:54 Yeah.

David Imel 40:54 Six core CPUs, two super cores, and four efficiency cores.

40:57 What is a super core?

40:59 Okay, so when I was-

Speaker 40:59 It's just a high performance core.

David Imel 41:00 Okay.

Speaker 41:01 They, they just renamed a high performance core.

David Imel 41:02 Oh.

41:02 Yeah, yeah.

41:03 This is the cores they renamed.

Speaker 41:04 Yeah.

David Imel 41:04 Yeah.

41:04 Okay, got it, got it.

41:04 Super core. Uh, seven core GPU-

Speaker 41:07 Yep

David Imel 41:07 ... which they says has... It's, they, which they say has up to a 40%, uh, performance increase. That is sort of a nebulous idea, like a 40% GPU performance increase. Do you get more frame rates on games? Do you get higher fidelity?

Speaker 41:21 A lot of these kind of feel like unlabeled graphs.

David Imel 41:24 Yeah.

Speaker 41:24 We'll talk about the vapor chamber in a second, and one of the claims was f- like 50% more sustained performance.

David Imel 41:31 Yeah.

41:32 Compared to what?

Speaker 41:33 What? Like, what does that actually mean?

David Imel 41:35 Yeah, right. What does each test-

Speaker 41:35 We will, we will find out. Is that longer? Is that higher threshold? Whatever.

David Imel 41:39 Yeah.

Speaker 41:39 We'll find that out.

David Imel 41:39 They added a separate neural, a second neural engine, so now they have 32 cores in their neural engine as opposed to 16.

Speaker 41:45 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 41:45 They're clearly trying to get in early with the AI stuff. They're trying to, like we said, they're trying to cut off the knees of every other AI company.

Speaker 41:52 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 41:53 Or shoot an arrow in their knee or something.

Speaker 41:55 [laughs]

David Imel 41:56 Where is this metaphor going?

Speaker 41:57 It's about Skyrim.

David Imel 41:58 Is that Skyrim?

Speaker 41:59 That was Skyrim. I got that.

David Imel 42:00 I'm sorry, I was, I was on Facebook yesterday, and I saw a really cringe Facebook post I made when I was, like, 14. Um-

Speaker 42:05 That's all of them

David Imel 42:06 ... and it was about taking arrows to the knee.

42:07 Well, do you care to share with the class?

Speaker 42:08 It was definitely an arrow in the knee post.

David Imel 42:09 It was arrow in the knee joke.

Speaker 42:10 Nice.

David Imel 42:11 Which is not funny anymore.

Speaker 42:12 Yeah.

David Imel 42:13 Yeah.

Speaker 42:13 [laughs]

David Imel 42:13 Okay. 50... [laughs] I don't know. 50% increase in memory bandwidth. Uh, and it's, it's a new package. It's a new CPU, or a new SOC package. It is actually physically wider than the, uh, A19.

Speaker 42:27 Yeah.

David Imel 42:27 Um-

Speaker 42:27 They-

David Imel 42:28 ... that doesn't really matter to most people, but

Speaker 42:29 ... they explained it as moving the memory off of the top of the CPU-

David Imel 42:34 Yeah

Speaker 42:34 ... to directly next to the CPU, which obviously we don't think about that as meaning all that much, but that packaging means that they can more directly cool the CPU with that vapor chamber.

David Imel 42:43 Yeah.

Speaker 42:44 And it still being right next door makes it still accessible. I f- I heard a really good analogy f- yesterday, which is, like, thinking about these, these CPUs as, or these system onto chips, as, like, Manhattan real estate.

David Imel 42:54 [laughs]

Speaker 42:55 Every little bit of it is so important, and if you wanna move something around or add something, you really have to consider everything around it.

David Imel 43:02 Right.

Speaker 43:03 So the die getting a little bit bigger, but also being two nanometer, kinda balanced out, um, the fact that they're moving things around.

David Imel 43:10 Which is funny to me 'cause I remember when they invented stacked memory, and they made a big deal about-

Speaker 43:14 It was a big deal

David Imel 43:14 ... the RAM is closer to the chip, so you can move the data faster, et cetera.

Speaker 43:18 Yeah.

David Imel 43:18 And now they separated it again, but I assume that there were, like-

Speaker 43:21 It's right next door.

David Imel 43:22 Yeah.

Speaker 43:22 They're neighbors.

David Imel 43:22 It's right next door. They're neighbors.

Speaker 43:23 Yeah.

David Imel 43:23 Yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, th- they made a big deal about the better vapor chamber. Last year, if you remember, was the big vapor chamber year. That was, like, one of the big things about the 17 Pro. They-

43:33 You know, it was orange, too.

Speaker 43:34 [laughs]

David Imel 43:35 It was also orange, or clementine, or whatever. Uh, they did a also big deal about the new vapor chamber, which is 3X larger.

Speaker 43:42 Three times the surface area.

David Imel 43:43 The surface area.

43:44 The surface area.

Speaker 43:45 And the en- essentially the entire mid-frame of the phone is- ... is thermal, like-

David Imel 43:51 Vapor chamber

Speaker 43:52 ... it's not, it's not all vapor chamber-

David Imel 43:53 Yeah

Speaker 43:53 ... but the whole mid- middle section of the phone is to design to wick heat away from the CPU.

David Imel 43:58 Yeah.

Speaker 43:58 Which is a lot.

David Imel 43:59 Which they say is 40% better. A net- again, better is a nebulous term. They showed us some graphs. They actually had a thermal camera in one of our briefings where they showed us the difference in heat dissipation.

Speaker 44:11 Yeah.

David Imel 44:11 Did look better, but again, these are very specific set of-

Speaker 44:15 Very notably, the thermal cameras-

David Imel 44:17 Yeah

Speaker 44:17 ... just for context, were pointed at the back of the phone, which makes sense.

David Imel 44:20 Yeah.

Speaker 44:20 That's the part you're holding.

David Imel 44:22 Yeah.

Speaker 44:22 So when you point a thermal camera at the back of the phone and see less heat, that generally means that the phone that you are holding in your hand feels less warm.

David Imel 44:29 Yeah.

Speaker 44:29 Which is great.

David Imel 44:30 Yeah.

Speaker 44:30 I don't know if the rails are warmer, I don't know if the screen feels warmer.

David Imel 44:33 Yeah.

Speaker 44:33 But it's great to not hold a warm phone.

David Imel 44:34 They did add a new layer to also dissipate heat on the screen, though.

Speaker 44:38 That's nice.

David Imel 44:38 Yeah, I remember seeing that in the briefing as well.

Speaker 44:40 Yeah.

David Imel 44:40 There is a noticeable difference-

Speaker 44:43 In the fall off?

David Imel 44:43 ... in the, in the depth of field.

Speaker 44:45 Okay. Did you get to look at, like, is the ISO lower-

David Imel 44:49 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Speaker 44:49 ... or like noticeably faster shutter speed maybe?

David Imel 44:51 Yes, yeah. It does-

Speaker 44:52 Okay

David Imel 44:52 ... dynamically change that information. I don't really care.

Speaker 44:56 [laughs]

David Imel 44:56 I, I think that, like, what's interesting about smartphone cameras for a long time was, like, everything was always in focus, and that was the biggest difference between a smartphone camera and a real camera, was depth of field basically automatically told you whether something was a professional camera or not.

Speaker 45:11 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 45:11 Eventually, these sensors got bigger and bigger, and now we have some. It still has sort of that, you know, it has that, like, that look where it looks a little bit plasticky.

Speaker 45:19 Fringy.

David Imel 45:20 Fringy, weird stuff. So now, yeah, you can do this. My, my take on why they did this is, one, they needed something to change, two, they know that the ca- that the sensors are gonna get bigger and bigger. And when I look at whenever we reviewed, like, the Sony phones with the 1.0 type sensors, Sony did not optimize those well. Like, they-

Speaker 45:39 Yeah

David Imel 45:39 ... either they're-

Speaker 45:40 Their hardware

David Imel 45:40 ... blown out or there's so much depth of field that nothing's in focus-

Speaker 45:44 Yes

David Imel 45:44 ... because it's just, like, really, really narrow, and I think Apple is just trying to get ahead of that and kind of, like, prepare for a world where-

Speaker 45:52 That's valid

David Imel 45:52 ... that is the case.

Speaker 45:53 I think that this... Uh, yeah, I think this variable aperture would make a, would make the biggest difference on the biggest sensor.

David Imel 46:01 Yes.

Speaker 46:01 So, like, if we had the 1.0 type sensor, when we take, like, a f- I take a lot of, like, [laughs] in my testing anyway, like, closeups of, like, things in my hand or, like, right in front of me-

David Imel 46:09 Mm

Speaker 46:09 ... just to see what the falloff is like.

David Imel 46:10 Yeah.

Speaker 46:11 And I'll take a photo, and part of the object I'm taking a picture of will be slightly out of focus.

David Imel 46:16 Yeah.

Speaker 46:16 Which is annoying. It looks worse, and I think if you stop down that photo to F4, it looks much better.

David Imel 46:22 Yeah.

Speaker 46:23 So m- yeah, I don't know. I... The- honestly, the biggest difference I saw was, like, the point lights.

David Imel 46:27 The sun stars, yeah.

Speaker 46:28 The little point lights.

David Imel 46:28 It's cool.

Speaker 46:28 When I change the aperture, it would change to a different number of points on the star.

David Imel 46:32 Yeah.

Speaker 46:33 Mm.

David Imel 46:33 So there are y- things-

46:34 Well, re- I would say-

46:35 Yeah, yeah

46:35 ... we were talking about this last night.

46:36 Yeah.

46:36 Ho- it feels so similar to S8 and S9, where-

Speaker 46:39 Mm

David Imel 46:40 ... the phones are exactly the same, and they're just like, "We need to change something. Variable aperture." This is the iPhone 17 with some incremental upgrades and a variable aperture.

46:47 I very much think that's mostly the case.

46:50 Yeah.

46:50 Because, I mean-

Speaker 46:50 Matte black. Don't forget matte black.

David Imel 46:51 Matte black. [laughs]

46:52 [laughs]

46:52 A lot of their advertising, and, like, even John Turner before the event tweeted this, like, little video-

46:58 Mm-hmm

46:58 ... of this aperture skylight closing, and, like, co- like, it was, like, blown out, and then it condenses the light into a little circle. It seems like they needed something to be like, "It's different. It's different. It's different," and this will be useful in the future, and I wish that Sony would implement this in their phones, too. I wish, uh, like, eventually, all, all smartphones are going to need variable aperture if you don't want everything to be out of focus.

Speaker 47:19 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 47:19 Um, but yeah, for now, it's basically pointless. It was crazy how big of a difference it is from, like, if you change to F4, suddenly the sun stars are, like, really sharp sun stars.

Speaker 47:31 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 47:31 Generally, with, uh, large lenses and large sensors, you don't really get that sun star until you stop down to, like, F8, F9.5, F11, something like that.

Speaker 47:41 Yeah, that's just, like, the... This is so in the weeds-

David Imel 47:44 The aperture blades

Speaker 47:44 ... but, like, how many blades the aperture is-

David Imel 47:46 Yeah

Speaker 47:46 ... which-

David Imel 47:46 If you have more aperture blades, it creates more of a circle.

Speaker 47:49 Did they say how many blades this one has?

David Imel 47:50 There are six.

47:50 Six.

Speaker 47:51 Six.

David Imel 47:51 Yeah.

Speaker 47:51 Oh.

David Imel 47:51 They went pretty in-depth-

47:52 So were you paying attention?

Speaker 47:53 I did not notice that.

David Imel 47:54 Yeah, about-

Speaker 47:54 I did not hear that.

David Imel 47:55 Yeah, there are six. They're, they said they're thinner than a human hair, which is kinda crazy.

Speaker 47:58 They have to be, yeah.

David Imel 47:59 I guess they would be, 'cause hair is not that thin, to be honest.

Speaker 48:02 [laughs]

David Imel 48:02 I'm just gonna say it.

48:03 Damn. [laughs]

48:04 Anyway, yeah. So, so if you... Generally, lenses that are more expensive have more aperture blades because when you close down the, their-

Speaker 48:12 Stay spherical.

David Imel 48:13 Yeah, they stay spherical.

Speaker 48:14 Okay.

David Imel 48:14 Um, [laughs] I don't wanna get... I could get way too deep about this.

Speaker 48:17 We are getting-

David Imel 48:17 I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Speaker 48:18 Yeah. [laughs]

David Imel 48:19 I'm sorry. I was a... Yeah. Anyway.

48:20 Well, I have one question about the blades-

48:21 Okay

48:21 ... before we move on.

48:22 I studied the blades.

48:24 Yeah?

48:24 Just so you know.

48:24 You're a blade master?

48:26 Yeah.

48:26 That feels like a thing from somewhere.

Speaker 48:27 Blade blade?

David Imel 48:27 Um-

48:28 While you were...

48:29 David's my blade blade.

Speaker 48:30 [laughs]

David Imel 48:30 Um-

48:31 Thanks.

48:31 Uh, wow. Uh, nice.

48:33 [laughs]

Speaker 48:34 I was studying blades.

David Imel 48:35 Can you hear or feel them-

48:38 No

48:38 ... moving in the camera?

48:39 No.

Speaker 48:39 It's kind of crazy.

David Imel 48:39 But it is-

Speaker 48:40 You can see it

David Imel 48:40 ... but you can see, like, when you press the, the aperture change buttons, you can see it, like, suddenly change.

48:46 Oh, wow.

48:47 You can see the point lights, like, suddenly change, so it's really interesting.

48:50 Yeah.

48:50 Yeah, I think it's pointless, uh, for now. I, uh-

Speaker 48:53 Yeah

David Imel 48:53 ... they, like, had some i- cool images where it's like there was a person with, like, holding, like, a... They had an earring, and so there was, like, the light on the earring that was, like, a sun star, and I was like, "Sure, whatever."

Speaker 49:03 I think that, that, that feels like on the level of, like, that phone that had, like, the S in the, in the, like, reflection on the back-

David Imel 49:08 Oh, the OnePlus One

Speaker 49:08 ... where they-

David Imel 49:08 Where they just like... Yeah

Speaker 49:09 ... where they noticed it-

David Imel 49:10 Yeah

Speaker 49:10 ... while they were shooting, and they were like, "Let's talk about that."

David Imel 49:13 [laughs]

Speaker 49:13 Like, sure.

David Imel 49:14 Yeah, but something that is, uh, very fun and interesting, they added pro controls, which I really like.

Speaker 49:20 Yeah.

David Imel 49:20 Uh, Pixel has had this for a while now, so Apple's finally bringing it. Now, it's interesting 'cause they don't have, like, a separate pro control menu. It's just at the top. It's like, like, they added all these little settings at the top that you can change, and they have things like white balance. They have things like aperture, shutter speed. The shutter speed thing is cool. I wish you could do more than one second. You can only do one second, which is kind of annoying.

Speaker 49:42 Hm.

David Imel 49:42 Um, but now you can do things like you can do a second lon- a second long exposure, and you can, like, whip the phone a little bit, so you kinda get this, like, motion blur effect. It's just, like, nice to have more control over those things, and-

Speaker 49:53 Yeah

David Imel 49:53 ... every year Apple is going to add a little bit more of pro control, but without giving you everything that the third-party apps have access to. So that's super nice, um-

50:03 I have a question about that.

50:04 Yeah.

50:04 They said customizable pro controls.

50:06 Yeah.

50:06 Can you move the, the, like, buttons around?

50:08 Yeah, I think that-

50:09 Okay

50:09 ... I was messing with this.

50:10 Yeah.

50:10 You can... I was able to remove and add different ones.

50:14 Oh.

50:14 But I wasn't able to change the order.

50:16 Oh, okay.

Speaker 50:16 Oh, interesting.

David Imel 50:17 I'm not sure if I was just doing it wrong. [laughs] But yeah, I c-

50:19 Well, it's-

50:19 You could long press one-

50:20 Yeah, yeah

50:20 ... and be like, "I don't need the histogram, I don't need shutter speed, but I do want ISO and manual focus." So you could pop those in-

50:24 Yeah

50:24 ... and you tap it, and it would go into the spot.

50:26 Yeah.

Speaker 50:26 Oh.

David Imel 50:26 But they were always in the same order.

50:27 Dope.

50:27 Something that was-

50:29 ... pretty interesting to me was that in a very Apple way, the white balance was not in kelvin. They had like... It-

50:35 No, it was

50:35 I saw the white balance. It changes dynamically. It didn't give... It didn't say, like, 2200 or whatever. I-

50:40 But mine did.

50:41 Really?

50:41 Yeah, at the bottom, and it, it would, like, abbreviate it.

50:43 Oh, at the bottom.

50:43 It would say, like, 5.2.

50:45 Yeah.

50:45 And I would slide it, it was, like, 4.2, but then when you look down at the bottom, it would say that's 5200.

50:49 Oh, that's how they do it.

50:50 Yeah.

50:51 That's actually smart.

50:52 Just to, like, have a tiny little... Oh, yeah, at the to- yeah, at the top where it's indicating it.

50:56 At the top.

50:56 Yeah, it'd say, like, 5.2 or something.

50:57 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 5.2, and I was like-

50:58 Yeah

50:58 ... did they just s- like, compress the, like, 2200 to 7800 into, like, a-

51:02 Yeah, just a 5.2k is what they wanted to say

51:05 ... a 10. Okay.

51:06 Yeah.

51:06 So anyway, pro controls are really helpful. Um, I believe that's probably just gonna be an iOS 27 feature. Uh, I think people might have said that it- I didn't know they didn't have that. [laughs] I'm gonna be... I'm curious-

51:16 Yeah.

51:16 They had the camera control how many years ago. I assumed this came with pro controls.

51:19 [laughs]

Speaker 51:19 No, that's, that's just for being annoying.

David Imel 51:20 [laughs] Yeah, that's just... Or launching the camera. [laughs]

Speaker 51:23 Yeah.

David Imel 51:23 So you're saying it's an iOS feature. I'm curious if they put-

51:26 I think it is

51:26 ... this on the base iPhones.

51:28 The what?

51:28 Because in the, in the Pixel-

51:30 Who are those?

51:30 [laughs]

51:31 I didn't see anyone.

Speaker 51:31 Which we see-

David Imel 51:32 Yeah. Well, when we get the, you know, the new iPhone 18, we'll have pro controls. I don't think so. Like, in the Pro Pixels-

Speaker 51:37 Okay, they call it pro controls

David Imel 51:37 ... we get the pro controls in just the Pro phones. Mm. Yeah. And you don't get it on the base Pixels.

51:42 That's possible, 'cause they call it pro controls. And Apple basically-

51:45 Yeah

51:45 ... hasn't... Like, they did put ProMotion in the regular phone.

51:47 ProMotion is the only thing that ever made the jump.

51:49 It's the only thing, and it still isn't, um, LTPO ProMotion. It's like-

51:54 Right

51:54 ... it's not 1 to 120 hertz on there.

51:56 You really don't think they're gonna add that to the base iPhone?

51:58 I-

51:58 I don't.

51:58 I, um-

51:58 Just because of the word pro? Yes.

52:00 I think it's possible.

52:00 Just 'cause of the word pro.

52:01 You know? Yeah.

52:01 That's wild. [laughs]

52:02 Uh-

Speaker 52:02 You bet

David Imel 52:03 ... something else that they have, uh, they have the audio mix feature, which kind of, like-

Speaker 52:07 Oh, my God

David Imel 52:07 ... zones in on certain things.

52:08 Wait, please explain this to us.

Speaker 52:10 That was the funniest part of the event.

David Imel 52:10 The demo of that was just, like, here's a guy playing the piano, and it switches, like... He's still playing the piano and nothing.

52:15 Yeah, but it, like, isolates it more, I guess. So-

Speaker 52:17 Yeah, I tho- I just thought that was-

David Imel 52:19 Yeah

Speaker 52:19 ... like, narratively and cinematically one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

David Imel 52:21 The demo-

52:22 Yeah

Speaker 52:22 ... was very, like, sleek-

David Imel 52:23 Yeah

Speaker 52:23 ... like, serious Apple event. They're like, "Dink, dinka, dinka, dinka, dinka, dinka, dinka."

David Imel 52:26 [laughs] Yeah, the song was weird. [laughs]

52:28 The song was a weird choice.

52:29 That was a weird... Yeah. Uh, okay. The cinematic mode now gets 60 FPS, which they specifically, and I appreciate this from Apple [laughs] they mentioned this is so you can slow it down 2X times.

52:39 [laughs]

52:40 And I was like, "Yes, never watch 60 FPS video."

52:43 [laughs]

52:43 Always watch 30 at, at, uh-

52:45 Yes

52:45 ... 0.5 speed.

52:46 Very important.

52:46 Time lapse you can now do in 4K. That's cool. Smart focus tracking, this was sort of a, sort of competing against, um, like, dedicated cameras. Because things like, you know, a dedicated Sony camera or something will track the subject even when it moves pa- when it gets occluded, and they mentioned you can, like, tap on a person, like, playing soccer or whatever, and if it gets occluded, it will stay tracked on that person.

53:09 Oh, okay.

53:10 Which is a big deal. Like, um, a, a lot of dedicated camera companies have been doing this recently.

53:14 Yeah.

53:15 Other big thing, they are supporting SynthID from Google. This is the standard that, uh, basically d- leaves an invisible watermark on an image that you can-

53:23 Brr, brr, brr, brr

53:24 ... ask Gemini or whatever if it's a real photo. However, [laughs] they spent a quarter second on that, because they said, "We support SynthID, but also we have a new thing called Apple Reference Image," uh, which they say signs data at a pixel level at time of capture. Private cloud compute becames, uh... Eh. Private cloud compute creates an unalterable reference image, like a digital negative.

Speaker 53:46 I love this.

David Imel 53:46 I do not yet understand how this works.

Speaker 53:48 [laughs]

David Imel 53:48 So I do not want to say this is great or this is bad.

Speaker 53:51 Yeah.

David Imel 53:51 But I do want to look into it, so when we have more time, I'm going to dive deeper into this. Most Apple thing ever, it is the xkcd comic of there are 17 competing-

54:01 Standards

54:02 ... standards.

54:02 Yeah.

54:02 Let's create an 18th competing standard.

54:04 Yeah, but this is on the most popular camera in the world.

54:07 Yeah, but-

Speaker 54:07 It's at, it's at the, the Pixel sensor level or something.

David Imel 54:10 Yeah, whatever.

54:11 Surely.

54:11 Yeah.

Speaker 54:11 Surely it works.

David Imel 54:12 At the sensor level. Real quick to explain how it works if people didn't see it, is that you can, I, I guess, through your phone be able to, any picture-

54:20 Yeah

54:20 ... see what the original photo taken was-

54:22 Yes

54:22 ... to see if there are any changes made through AI.

54:23 Yes.

54:23 But actually, like, physically see it, unlike-

54:26 Yes

54:26 ... these other things, which are just like- Interesting ... AI was used in here.

54:29 Correct.

54:29 I think it's interesting, 'cause sometimes we get photos that are gonna say AI was used, but it might be, like, to get a bird out of the background or, or something.

54:36 Yeah.

54:36 Or the far more malicious versions, we can see, like, that is not even remotely close to what this looked like.

54:42 But I think the problem with this is, like, if someone takes a photo on their phone and then they alter it or whatever-

54:49 Mm-hmm

54:49 ... they're the only ones that have the digital negative. So if they're the ones that are trying to, you know-

54:53 Espec- I assumed the digital negative follows it all of the time.

Speaker 54:56 AI.

David Imel 54:56 I thought it gets somehow imprinted. Just, like, in... Yeah.

54:59 Well, probably only if it's, like, edited. If that, if that metadata follows the image, which would have to be, like, supported by other third-party-

55:07 Well, Ellis brought up a great point yesterday when we were talking about this-

55:10 ... editing programs

55:10 ... where he said this would be great for, like, Safari to have a little thing that pops up if you see an image that was a reference image.

55:17 Yeah.

55:17 And you'll have, like, a, "This is a real picture."

55:19 Right.

55:19 You know? I mean, maybe I shouldn't have assumed, but I just assumed this followed the picture wherever it goes.

55:24 No.

55:24 Otherwise, it feels-

55:25 I think that's the goal

55:25 ... it's probably baked into the metadata ... for everyone to support it. Yeah, my guess is it's in the, the data.

Speaker 55:28 Yeah, but that's a good point, David. Like, if I upload a picture to ChatGPT and say, like, you know, "Make me Batman," or something like that-

David Imel 55:35 I don't-

Speaker 55:35 ... and then I download a JPEG from ChatGPT-

David Imel 55:38 Correct. I doubt that will be-

Speaker 55:39 ... like, will I be able to right-click it and be like, "Show me the reference image"?

David Imel 55:42 I don't think so.

55:43 Yeah. We'll find out.

Speaker 55:43 But it's baked into the, the Pixel sensors.

David Imel 55:44 It's baked in... Yeah, it's baked into the Pixel, but not the iPhone. Um-

Speaker 55:48 If it, if it does work like that, there's a... We have an amazing short opportunity on our hands-

David Imel 55:53 [laughs] That's... Yeah

Speaker 55:54 ... of, like, pushing photos, like, to their absolute extreme, and then make pe- making people guess what the original photo was.

David Imel 55:59 Also, by the way, the thing that breaks all of these things is screenshots. [laughs]

56:03 Oh.

56:04 Like-

56:04 Damn

56:05 ... I remember when, you know, when, uh, the Content Authenticity Initiative came out, and we did a whole video on the studio channel about how this works, and C- CP- C2PA, you can just take a screenshot and it's gone.

56:18 Yeah, but I think the-

56:18 You know what I mean?

56:19 ... the thing is that moving forward-

Andrew Manganelli 56:22 We probably shouldn't trust any image unless we see a watermark on it like that.

Speaker 56:26 Yeah.

Andrew Manganelli 56:27 Like, just assume it's fake.

Speaker 56:28 And I think the point of this is that i- when you post an image online, someone can say, "That's not real." And then you can back it up-

Andrew Manganelli 56:36 Yeah

Speaker 56:36 ... with, "I have this digital negative. Apple says this is real, whatever." So it is, it is good that they're doing something like this.

Andrew Manganelli 56:42 Yeah.

Speaker 56:42 Um, also good that they're supporting SynthID.

Andrew Manganelli 56:44 Yeah.

Speaker 56:45 Whatever.

Andrew Manganelli 56:45 I don't think this is for, like, our pictures of, like, removing a bird so it's a prettier picture. I think this is for, like, events are happening.

Speaker 56:52 Yeah.

Andrew Manganelli 56:52 Look at what's happening, like, here's the real picture.

Speaker 56:54 And I think you can be like, "I can confirm that this is-"

Andrew Manganelli 56:56 Yeah.

Speaker 56:56 Yeah. If it goes through the correct way.

Speaker 56:57 And it solves the problem that SynthID creates where, like, I, I've heard a lot of creators talk about posting photos on Twitter that get the AI edited thing.

Andrew Manganelli 57:06 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 57:06 And it's like the only AI edit was, like, I boosted the exposure.

Speaker 57:10 Yeah, in Photoshop or something.

Speaker 57:11 You know?

Speaker 57:11 Or like now- I've had the label when I didn't do anything.

Speaker 57:13 Exactly.

Andrew Manganelli 57:13 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 57:13 Yeah.

Speaker 57:13 So now the label can have... If you're really curious, you can actually see for yourself like, "Oh, no, this is essentially the image that was taken."

Andrew Manganelli 57:21 Yeah.

Speaker 57:21 Yeah. I think that's better.

Speaker 57:22 I mean, what, what's a photo, am I right, guys? But-

Speaker 57:24 It's kinda cool-

Andrew Manganelli 57:25 That's where we're at

Speaker 57:25 ... 'cause when they showed the, the digital negative version, it was, like, without the Apple processing, too.

Andrew Manganelli 57:30 Yeah.

Speaker 57:30 It was, like- Yeah ... a more basic photo.

Andrew Manganelli 57:32 I was just gonna ask that.

Speaker 57:33 It doesn't look like the photo looks when you, like, take it and then Apple does the processing, does the smoothing, does the exposure boost-

Andrew Manganelli 57:39 Mm-hmm

Speaker 57:39 ... whatever. Oh, let me get that, that. I know. I was like-

Andrew Manganelli 57:42 So-

Speaker 57:42 ... can I just use that?

Andrew Manganelli 57:42 Wait, so there are shadows?

Speaker 57:44 There are shadows.

Speaker 57:45 [laughs]

Speaker 57:45 There are shadows.

Andrew Manganelli 57:46 Cool.

Speaker 57:46 We got shadows, boy. Okay, last big thing, um, that is actually two things, because Marques and I got a really interesting demo with a microscope [laughs] . Yeah, they didn't- Yeah ... as far as I can tell, they didn't say this in the keynote. They didn't. Okay. Yeah, it was wild. So the Dynamic Island on the Pros is 25% smaller. Neat. I think in the keynote they mentioned now there's more room for three live activities up there instead of two. Cool.

Andrew Manganelli 58:10 Stepbrothers meme.

Speaker 58:10 So much room for activities.

Andrew Manganelli 58:11 Yeah [laughs] .

Speaker 58:11 What we didn't really get the details on, which I do think is fascinating, is the way they're doing that is just by taking the infrared blaster, basically the Face ID cluster, the infrared, and moving that behind the display. And they actually move it over to the left-hand corner. To the left, yeah. So there is a bit of a different, like, pixel pitch and pixel matrix over that circle where the Face ID hole is. Yeah. You would never know looking at the phone.

Andrew Manganelli 58:36 It's like, I, I was like, was I not paying attention when you kept reading this during a roll-

Speaker 58:40 Yeah

Andrew Manganelli 58:40 ... last night? I was-

Speaker 58:41 It w- it's n-

Andrew Manganelli 58:41 I didn't know that's why it's there

Speaker 58:41 ... it was genuinely a cool thing to know. And then we even got to, like, stare at it. Like, under a microscope you can see the difference in pixels. Yeah. It's just kind of like what we're about to talk about with Duo, which is there are less pixels there- Yeah ... in the top left corner, and so if you are pixel peeping really, really hard- Yeah ... you can see that it's a little bit pixelated in the top left corner. That's how they achieve the smaller Dynamic Island. Yeah. This is basically the same technology that they use for under display cameras, where they basically just leave gaps between the OLED, and then the-

Andrew Manganelli 59:08 Oh

Speaker 59:08 ... camera can, like, fill in that information.

Andrew Manganelli 59:09 But you can see it on the under display camera on the Duo.

Speaker 59:12 Yeah, 'cause they use- Yeah, well, that's a separate- That needs way more information. Yes. This is just infrared-

Andrew Manganelli 59:15 Got it, okay

Speaker 59:15 ... so they didn't- Yeah ... have to drastically- Right ... uh, remove as many pixels. Yeah. So it's interesting that they put it in the top left corner. Um, they showed us a little demo with two little Apple logos, like one on the denser OLED and one on the one with gaps. If you look really close, you can see it, but again, it's in the top left corner. And they said, 'cause now, you know, the, the f- Face ID camera has always been pretty wide. I think it was, like, three generations ago of iPhone they made it, like, a wider sensor, so if your phone's just, like, sitting on the table- Oh, right ... it'll still recognize you. Yeah. It still has that p- power. Yeah. So I think that's pretty cool. Um, it makes the Dynamic Island smaller. It, it's, yeah, it's 25% smaller, but it also looks, like, shorter. It's kind of- Oh ... like, strange and weird. Um, yeah. Now they have three live activities, we said that. That was, that was basically it. Yeah. I don't know. It's pretty good. So the Pros are 100 bucks more. Yeah. Uh, 1,200 for a Pro, 1,300 for a Pro Max.

Andrew Manganelli 1:00:06 So are all the old phones.

Speaker 1:00:07 All of the catalog of old phones they're still selling, also basically all 100 bucks more, so the price hikes finally hit iPhones. Yeah. Um, but they are no longer the highest end phones Apple sells.

Andrew Manganelli 1:00:18 It's very funny, though, because you can say, you can't say anymore, like, "Oh, just wait till the new one comes out and you can get the old one for cheaper."

Speaker 1:00:25 It actually went- Yeah ... up $100.

Andrew Manganelli 1:00:26 Oh, that's true.

Speaker 1:00:27 Yeah.

Andrew Manganelli 1:00:27 I didn't think of that.

Speaker 1:00:28 Everything, everything's more expensive. Yeah. But we'll talk about the most expensive thing right after one more quick break. That's right. Trivia time.

Andrew Manganelli 1:00:38 Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba.

Speaker 1:00:39 That one sounded like a jukebox.

Andrew Manganelli 1:00:40 I was gonna say, I was getting used to it, and then the-

Speaker 1:00:43 [laughs] The static

Andrew Manganelli 1:00:44 ... it swapped it [laughs] .

Speaker 1:00:44 Yeah.

Andrew Manganelli 1:00:45 Trivia.

Speaker 1:00:45 I, I spent so much time on this, like, special-

Andrew Manganelli 1:00:47 [laughs]

Speaker 1:00:48 ... like, version where it's, it combines... No, it didn't. Yeah, whatever.

Andrew Manganelli 1:00:51 I love it.

Speaker 1:00:51 Anyway, thanks.

Andrew Manganelli 1:00:51 Well, during the AirPods 5 announcement, the actress was in the train station looking at departures, and two of the cities that trains were going to were delayed.

Speaker 1:01:00 Come on. I don't even remember.

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:01 What cities were those trains going to?

Speaker 1:01:03 I don't even remember this ad. That's diabolical. In the background?

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:05 In the... No, no, it was in the screen.

Speaker 1:01:07 On the giant board?

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:07 There were shots of it, too. It showed it twice.

Speaker 1:01:09 She's looking at it.

Speaker 1:01:10 Yeah, so it's a shot of her in the foreground and the board in the background.

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:12 She walks up to it, she looks at it, they change to delayed, and then it changes-

Speaker 1:01:15 I remember that

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:15 ... and it cuts back to that shot again, and you can see in the background that the two cities-

Speaker 1:01:18 I'm not gonna get this

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:18 ... are delayed.

Speaker 1:01:19 I'm not gonna get this. This should be worth-

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:20 What?

Speaker 1:01:20 ... 15 points each. I don't even remember this ad at all.

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:22 I'll give you three points per city if you get it.

Speaker 1:01:24 It's not even worth me trying to guess. That is the exact time to tune out mentally from the keynote-

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:30 That's why I picked it

Speaker 1:01:30 ... when that is happening.

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:31 Well-

Speaker 1:01:31 'Cause I was paying attention to other things

Speaker 1:01:33 ... there, there's a hint here, because she was in Los Angeles Union Station, uh, which-

Speaker 1:01:37 Oh

Speaker 1:01:37 ... was one of the subway stations I transferred in on my way to high school, so that station is very special to me.

Speaker 1:01:42 So I'm crossing LA off the list.

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:43 Ellis Island's delayed.

Speaker 1:01:44 Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:45 [laughs]

Speaker 1:01:45 There's... No, but, but they are two cities that have trains from Los Angeles.

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:49 I was gonna say, funny-

Speaker 1:01:49 That's a good hint. It's not gonna help me.

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:51 [laughs]

Speaker 1:01:52 But- Funny that Apple pretends there's public transit in California.

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:54 [laughs]

Speaker 1:01:54 Oh, go home.

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:56 I will to Northern California.

Speaker 1:01:58 How? How?

Speaker 1:01:59 Look, I took, I took-

Andrew Manganelli 1:01:59 In my car

Speaker 1:02:00 ... Los Angeles' public transit-

Andrew Manganelli 1:02:01 [laughs]

Speaker 1:02:02 ... to school every day for four years.

Speaker 1:02:04 Okay.

Speaker 1:02:04 It works.

Andrew Manganelli 1:02:05 All right, Ford Motor Industries.

Speaker 1:02:07 Well, we will, again, learn at the end those answers. We'll be right back. [upbeat music] Support for the show comes from Square. The business platform that helps sellers become neighborhood favorites. These days, buying stuff is a breeze with tap-to-pay, whether it's a quick bite from your favorite food truck or a new accessory for your tech. Every day, we interact with businesses who rely on Square to make our transactions so fast and so simple. Square brings payments, points of sale, inventory, staffing, and online sales together in one easy-to-use system. Their hardware is sleek and simple, and comes with software that's just as intuitive to use in your everyday operations.

Speaker 1:02:48 Were you paying attention?

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David Imel 1:04:32 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 1:04:32 ... but it was literally the biggest thing at the event, which is hilarious, but I enjoy that anyway.

David Imel 1:04:36 Yeah.

Speaker 1:04:37 Um, so it's called iPhone Duo. It starts at $2,000. I think we guessed maybe two episodes ago how much we thought this phone would cost, and I think all of us were over.

David Imel 1:04:47 Yeah, I think by a lot.

1:04:48 Well, there was-

1:04:49 Except Alex

1:04:49 ... there was one podcast episode, s- I only know this 'cause someone bl- blue skied this at me.

1:04:54 Oh, my gosh. [laughs]

1:04:54 Whatever that's called. Skeeting?

Speaker 1:04:55 Yes. [laughs]

David Imel 1:04:56 Um, where they, they said, "Wow, David, you b- guessed the price correctly." And I was like, "I thought it was 2,400." And then there was apparently an episode many weeks ago where I said 2,000.

Speaker 1:05:05 Oh. All right. Fair.

David Imel 1:05:07 Weeks or years ago.

1:05:08 It must have been a long time ago.

Speaker 1:05:09 Okay.

David Imel 1:05:09 'Cause someone also tweeted at us that I think the first Waveform episode ever, we were talking [laughs] about the iPhone Fold-

1:05:14 Really?

1:05:14 ... something like that.

Speaker 1:05:15 Wow.

Speaker 1:05:15 Wow.

Speaker 1:05:16 Well-

David Imel 1:05:16 Well-

Speaker 1:05:16 See, that's how long we've been waiting for this. [laughs]

David Imel 1:05:18 My expectations clearly creeped up, but-

Speaker 1:05:20 Yeah

David Imel 1:05:20 ... the funny thing about this is it's still a $2,000 phone, but it feels affordable because of what we were expecting. [laughs]

Speaker 1:05:26 Yeah.

Speaker 1:05:27 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 1:05:27 Yeah.

Speaker 1:05:27 So the fundamentals of this phone are exactly what you've been seeing in the leaks and rumors. It is a smaller passport-shaped book style foldable. It's a 5.4 inch display on the front. It's a 1 by 1.4 aspect ratio. 1.4, I, I believe notably is the square root of two, which is very important. Uh-

David Imel 1:05:47 [laughs]

Speaker 1:05:47 ... when you open it, it is a 7.6 inch... Oh, were you paying attention?

David Imel 1:05:51 Yeah.

1:05:51 [laughs]

Speaker 1:05:51 Well...

Speaker 1:05:52 It's a 7.6 inch display-

David Imel 1:05:54 They made a bigger model

Speaker 1:05:54 ... which is a 1.4 by 1 aspect ratio, but wide now.

David Imel 1:05:58 Yeah.

Speaker 1:05:58 Um, they're both higher refresh rate. They're both bright. The outside has a corner cutout. There's no face ID. There is just a touch ID power button.

David Imel 1:06:07 Touch ID.

Speaker 1:06:07 Uh, the frame is titanium. It's a little heavier than some other Folds, uh, and then-

David Imel 1:06:11 It's asymmetrical

Speaker 1:06:12 ... it is asymmetrical at the front.

Speaker 1:06:14 Mm.

Speaker 1:06:14 Uh, this was a bigger deal to some, uh, especially those who have used a bunch of foldables that are now basically all rectangular screens.

David Imel 1:06:21 Yeah.

Speaker 1:06:21 But it's rounded on the right-hand side-

David Imel 1:06:23 Yeah

Speaker 1:06:23 ... and squared on the left-hand side.

David Imel 1:06:25 Do you think that's why they called it Duo?

Speaker 1:06:26 I was waiting to ask that.

David Imel 1:06:27 'Cause it looks like a D?

Speaker 1:06:29 It kind of does look like the letter D.

David Imel 1:06:30 We didn't hear the rumor of Duo 'til last minute.

Speaker 1:06:33 Yeah.

Speaker 1:06:33 So...

Speaker 1:06:33 Yeah.

David Imel 1:06:34 I tweeted last week, "It's kind of crazy that we don't know the name of this yet," and every reply was like, "It's Ultra, you idiot."

Speaker 1:06:40 [laughs]

David Imel 1:06:40 "We've known this forever. It's Ultra."

1:06:42 Marques shot a short last night-

Speaker 1:06:44 Clearly not

David Imel 1:06:44 ... right after A-roll, and he goes like, "It's the iPhone Ultra," and puts it down. Like, nailed that line.

Speaker 1:06:49 [laughs]

David Imel 1:06:49 And we all s- paused for a minute. What'd you just say? [laughs]

Speaker 1:06:52 [laughs] Yeah.

David Imel 1:06:52 [laughs]

Speaker 1:06:53 Oh.

David Imel 1:06:53 He's like, "I wrote-"

1:06:53 You gotta be really careful.

Speaker 1:06:54 I've been calling it the Ultra in my head. Yeah, so anyway, it is... Yeah, it's that small sh- it's small size, 7.6 inches open.

Speaker 1:07:00 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:07:01 And there are many, many interesting little things about it that are different from some of the other foldables we have.

David Imel 1:07:07 Yeah.

Speaker 1:07:08 The thing that we've all been comparing it to in our heads is the Samsung Galaxy Z Fold8, which is also a small 5.5 inch screen when it's closed, and a 7.5 inch, uh, small rectangular screen when it's open. Dual cameras. Like, same idea of a phone.

David Imel 1:07:22 Yeah.

Speaker 1:07:22 But there are, y- yeah, just a lot of little things that are different that we can-

David Imel 1:07:26 Yeah

Speaker 1:07:26 ... sort of dive into each one. I tend to think almost every little thing about the Fold is good and, like, well-considered.

David Imel 1:07:33 Yeah.

Speaker 1:07:33 And then there are just a small number of things

Speaker 1:07:35 that are a little odd to me.

David Imel 1:07:37 Yeah.

Speaker 1:07:37 So, uh, let's just talk about the things that are different.

David Imel 1:07:41 Yeah.

Speaker 1:07:42 Volume buttons are at the top of the phone. Not sure how they landed on that, but they are at the top instead of the right-hand side. I think that's fine. I think that means you go right for higher volume, left for lower volume.

David Imel 1:07:52 Yeah.

1:07:53 I think that screams to me that this is a i- like, this is turns into an iPad.

Speaker 1:07:58 Yeah.

David Imel 1:07:58 Yeah. 100%.

1:07:58 It just really feels like an iPad when you do it on the top like that.

Speaker 1:08:02 Uh, also on the outside of the phone, dual cameras. So it's an ultra-wide, which is the same as the 18 Pro, and then a new 48-megapixel primary camera, which without much testing I'm going to assume is on the same level as Samsung. It's like a smaller sensor-

David Imel 1:08:16 Yeah

Speaker 1:08:16 ... but it's the primary sensor.

David Imel 1:08:17 Because it is even thinner than the iPhone Air when it's open.

Speaker 1:08:20 Huh?

David Imel 1:08:20 So, yeah.

Speaker 1:08:20 We're, we're so confu- All three of us who were in the hotel room watching the event wrote down 12 megapixel telephoto for that second camera.

David Imel 1:08:27 No.

Speaker 1:08:27 Okay, so-

Speaker 1:08:27 Yeah.

David Imel 1:08:28 I figured it out after.

Speaker 1:08:29 Yeah, during the keynote, they, they talk about that, but it's, it's just a digital crop.

David Imel 1:08:33 It's just a cropping.

Speaker 1:08:33 It's the same as the Air-

David Imel 1:08:34 I hate that they do that

Speaker 1:08:34 ... where it's a 48-megapixel-

David Imel 1:08:36 Yeah

Speaker 1:08:36 ... main camera that then can be-

David Imel 1:08:39 Binned

Speaker 1:08:39 ... uh, binned to a 12-megapixel-

David Imel 1:08:41 To 12 megapixel

Speaker 1:08:41 ... telephoto.

David Imel 1:08:41 Dude, I got fusioned.

Speaker 1:08:43 Yeah.

Speaker 1:08:43 Yeah.

Speaker 1:08:43 It's the fusion.

David Imel 1:08:44 You got fused.

Speaker 1:08:44 I got freaking fusioned.

Speaker 1:08:45 You got con-fused.

David Imel 1:08:47 [laughs]

Speaker 1:08:47 I say the wrong thing-

David Imel 1:08:48 Con and it was about fusion.

Speaker 1:08:49 Yeah.

Speaker 1:08:50 I said the wrong thing on Man on the Street-

Speaker 1:08:51 Yeah

Speaker 1:08:51 ... like, to four different people.

Speaker 1:08:52 Oh, no.

Speaker 1:08:53 And I'm just going, "Do I look like a moron?" [laughs]

David Imel 1:08:54 [laughs]

Speaker 1:08:54 No, no, we both doubled down, too. Like, "No, we're pretty sure-"

David Imel 1:08:57 We're [laughs]

Speaker 1:08:57 ... it's a standard and a telephoto.

Speaker 1:08:58 Yeah. I would've loved that, but no.

David Imel 1:09:00 Yeah.

Speaker 1:09:00 But no.

David Imel 1:09:00 Yeah.

Speaker 1:09:00 I like telephotos.

David Imel 1:09:01 No, so that's that. And like you point out, it is thinner than an iPhone when it is-

Speaker 1:09:04 Open

David Imel 1:09:05 ... open.

Speaker 1:09:05 iPhone Air.

David Imel 1:09:06 So each half of it-

Speaker 1:09:07 iPhone Air. Yeah.

David Imel 1:09:07 Sorry, iPhone Air.

Speaker 1:09:08 Yeah.

David Imel 1:09:08 Uh, which is probably why, uh, they didn't have enough room for Face ID in the-

Speaker 1:09:12 Yeah

David Imel 1:09:12 ... in the top of that thing.

Speaker 1:09:13 Yeah.

David Imel 1:09:13 And so they did the, the fingerprint reader power button.

Speaker 1:09:15 I think it all con-

Speaker 1:09:16 They haven't put it in the MacBook yet, so yeah.

David Imel 1:09:17 I think it all confirms our thought of, like, iPhone Air as, like, one-

Speaker 1:09:21 Yeah

David Imel 1:09:22 ... of the new Fold that we're gonna see.

Speaker 1:09:23 One half of the Fold.

David Imel 1:09:23 It's like-

Speaker 1:09:23 Pretty much

David Imel 1:09:24 ... now we have two iPhone Airs with a haircut, and-

Speaker 1:09:26 It even looks like it

David Imel 1:09:27 ... it, it looks just like it.

Speaker 1:09:28 Yeah. Um-

Speaker 1:09:28 Can I tell you something that Marques told me on the way here that is a deal breaker for me?

David Imel 1:09:31 Was it in confidence?

Speaker 1:09:33 No.

David Imel 1:09:33 Okay. [laughs]

Speaker 1:09:34 [laughs]

David Imel 1:09:34 I was gonna say

David Imel 1:09:35 do it anyways, but... [laughs]

Speaker 1:09:36 [laughs]

Speaker 1:09:37 There's no action button.

Speaker 1:09:39 Yeah.

David Imel 1:09:39 Yeah.

Speaker 1:09:39 That's crazy to me.

Speaker 1:09:41 Yeah.

David Imel 1:09:41 Yeah.

Speaker 1:09:41 Is it?

David Imel 1:09:42 I-

Speaker 1:09:42 Okay. [laughs]

David Imel 1:09:43 ... don't use my action button as much as maybe you do.

Speaker 1:09:45 Really?

Speaker 1:09:45 I don't anymore.

Speaker 1:09:46 That is-

David Imel 1:09:46 What?

Speaker 1:09:46 ... I used to use it more.

David Imel 1:09:47 That's insane.

Speaker 1:09:48 I was really into it the first year.

Speaker 1:09:50 You guys are missing out on a whole world.

Speaker 1:09:51 Uh, do you... I mean, maybe we'll get more into this later, but you, you use it a lot.

Speaker 1:09:54 Well-

David Imel 1:09:54 Every day

Speaker 1:09:55 ... when I had an iPhone-

Speaker 1:09:55 Every day

Speaker 1:09:56 ... I used it all the time.

David Imel 1:09:57 Are you gonna-

Speaker 1:09:58 I ran my life through the action button.

David Imel 1:09:59 Adam, are you gonna buy a Duo?

Speaker 1:10:00 Hm. Not anymore.

David Imel 1:10:01 [laughs]

Speaker 1:10:01 I need the action button. That's, like, what I miss most about iOS was the action button.

Speaker 1:10:04 Very in- very interesting.

David Imel 1:10:05 Yeah.

Speaker 1:10:05 And shortcuts.

Speaker 1:10:06 Okay.

Speaker 1:10:06 But anyway.

David Imel 1:10:07 Can we talk about some of the software in the closed mode? I thought it was really interesting-

Speaker 1:10:10 Yeah

David Imel 1:10:10 ... the dock on the right.

Speaker 1:10:12 Yes.

David Imel 1:10:12 Um, the-

Speaker 1:10:13 Yeah.

David Imel 1:10:13 Why do I keep forgetting the name of the, like, your Wi-Fi... Your status icons, right?

Speaker 1:10:18 Status, yeah.

David Imel 1:10:18 Are all in this, like-

Speaker 1:10:19 Status indicators

David Imel 1:10:19 ... single, like, button now.

Speaker 1:10:21 Yeah.

David Imel 1:10:21 They do a lot of cool software stuff in liquid glass that, like, right aligns everything. Sounds like you're gonna cut me off here.

Speaker 1:10:26 [laughs] We're, we're both-

Speaker 1:10:27 I thought it was a button, too.

David Imel 1:10:29 It's not a button.

Speaker 1:10:29 It's not a button.

Speaker 1:10:30 Yeah.

David Imel 1:10:30 What?

Speaker 1:10:30 It looks like a button. I pressed it many times. It doesn't do anything.

Speaker 1:10:33 It's round.

Speaker 1:10:34 You slide down-

David Imel 1:10:35 Okay. [laughs]

Speaker 1:10:35 I know.

David Imel 1:10:35 It's not that cool anymore.

Speaker 1:10:35 It looks like a button.

David Imel 1:10:36 It's... How is that not a button?

Speaker 1:10:37 But when you slide down from the corner, then it expands and everything pushes down. I think you should be able to press it like a button.

David Imel 1:10:42 It's a button.

Speaker 1:10:42 It looks like one.

David Imel 1:10:43 It's circular. It's, my thumb is attracted to it like a-

Speaker 1:10:45 There's about-

Speaker 1:10:46 [laughs]

David Imel 1:10:46 [laughs]

Speaker 1:10:46 ... 15 seconds of clips of me-

David Imel 1:10:48 On a mosquito zapper, yeah

Speaker 1:10:49 ... in 8K pressing it and nothing happening.

David Imel 1:10:51 [laughs]

Speaker 1:10:51 I'm like, "Why is this not a button?"

David Imel 1:10:52 Okay.

Speaker 1:10:53 Yeah. Yeah. Um-

David Imel 1:10:54 I have so many thoughts on the dock thing.

Speaker 1:10:55 Dock on the right. God. Okay, so it's such a good idea. I, I-

David Imel 1:10:58 Unless you're a lefty.

Speaker 1:10:59 Unless you're left-handed, w- in which case, become right-handed. [laughs]

David Imel 1:11:02 You're holding it, you're holding it wrong. Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 1:11:04 Can you not just, like, hold it upside down?

David Imel 1:11:07 Uh...

Speaker 1:11:07 That's what Marques said.

David Imel 1:11:08 Yeah, it's...

Speaker 1:11:08 I don't know.

David Imel 1:11:09 Well, then your-

Speaker 1:11:09 Well, then your selfie camera's on the bottom.

David Imel 1:11:11 Okay. Okay.

Speaker 1:11:12 So...

Speaker 1:11:12 Chin cam.

David Imel 1:11:12 Wait, I have to, I have to talk about this.

Speaker 1:11:14 [laughs]

David Imel 1:11:14 I have to talk about this.

Speaker 1:11:15 Okay, talk about the dock.

David Imel 1:11:15 This is what I like so much. Okay. macOS has a dock on the bottom, right?

Speaker 1:11:20 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 1:11:20 It is this area that you can technically use. If you use the, the full screen button, if you use the big green button, it fills the entire screen, full screen, whatever. But generally, most of the time, windows and tabs and whatever are sitting above the dock. So it's this little area that's reserved for, you know, switching apps, doing these things, whatever. It's reserved. That's exactly what they did on the Duo-

Speaker 1:11:44 Mm

David Imel 1:11:44 ... is that they left this little margin on the side of the screen that basically is a dock, which you can only have four icons. I wish you could have more apps, whatever.

Speaker 1:11:53 Really bummed about that.

David Imel 1:11:53 But it makes it really easy to h- uh, to switch apps if you're right-handed. [laughs] Um, and when you're h- when you have apps open and stuff like that, all of Apple's apps have now been redesigned to make it so all the toggles and stuff are on that side as well.

Speaker 1:12:08 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 1:12:09 They, the... Something w- I noticed when I was using it is, like, a lot of notifications and stuff do not feel centered like they would on a regular iPhone-

Speaker 1:12:18 Slightly

David Imel 1:12:18 ... where it comes in from the center. They're slightly to the left, and at first, your brain is like, "This is kinda weird," 'cause it's offset.

Speaker 1:12:24 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 1:12:24 But you eventually kind of start to understand, like, oh, this whole second, this whole side-

Speaker 1:12:28 Uh-huh

David Imel 1:12:28 ... of the phone is just for interacting with.

Speaker 1:12:30 You know what I'm getting flashbacks to?

David Imel 1:12:32 What?

Speaker 1:12:32 The Samsung Galaxy Note Edge.

Speaker 1:12:35 The Edge.

David Imel 1:12:36 Oh, yeah, with the little-

Speaker 1:12:37 Remember that phone?

David Imel 1:12:38 The stock ticker?

Speaker 1:12:38 It was just a regular phone.

David Imel 1:12:40 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:12:40 Rectangular, but then peeling off the right-hand side-

David Imel 1:12:42 Yeah

Speaker 1:12:42 ... of the phone was this little extra margin-

David Imel 1:12:44 Yeah

Speaker 1:12:44 ... which was, like, kind of a launcher and a clock-

David Imel 1:12:47 Yeah

Speaker 1:12:47 ... and you could put little tickers in there.

David Imel 1:12:49 Yeah.

Speaker 1:12:50 Interesting stock ticker.

David Imel 1:12:50 But that phone was terrible to use, so.

Speaker 1:12:52 It was. [laughs]

David Imel 1:12:52 [laughs]

Speaker 1:12:52 No, I do... You're right.

David Imel 1:12:53 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:12:54 It, it almost makes the actual content on the front fold a little more normal i- in terms of aspect ratio-

David Imel 1:12:59 Square it up

Speaker 1:13:00 ... of a regular-

David Imel 1:13:00 Yeah

Speaker 1:13:00 ... because you just have this extra room for stuff. It would be awesome if the dock could be way bigger, because you're dedicated-

David Imel 1:13:05 Yeah

Speaker 1:13:05 ... in that room.

David Imel 1:13:06 Yeah.

Speaker 1:13:06 But yeah, little buttons-

David Imel 1:13:07 Yeah

Speaker 1:13:07 ... will come up, different things depending on what app you're in will all come right aligned.

David Imel 1:13:11 And, like, I'm sorry, software developers, 'cause you're gonna have to make an iPhone Duo version of every version of your app with all the, like, buttons and stuff. But in the way that John Ternus, like, kinda describes s- what smartphones are now as a intelligent personal hub, again, I love this idea that, like, it's a computer that you carry with you in your hand and in your pocket.

Speaker 1:13:32 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 1:13:32 And because of that, you have a dock. You have a usable area, and you have a dock area.

Speaker 1:13:37 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 1:13:37 And I just think that's a really cool way to, like, rethink the idea of, like, a PDA or a smartphone that no one else has really done yet. Uh, it'll be-

Speaker 1:13:45 Is there any way to hide the dock?

Speaker 1:13:46 I couldn't find any dock customization.

David Imel 1:13:48 Mm, they're using all that... It, they're, they're dedicating that space, so then it would just be-

Speaker 1:13:52 Yeah

David Imel 1:13:52 ... empty probably.

Speaker 1:13:53 Yeah.

Speaker 1:13:53 You can make it, like, like an app full screen or something.

Speaker 1:13:55 Yeah.

Speaker 1:13:55 Like, you know how on, on Mac you can just-

David Imel 1:13:58 When-

Speaker 1:13:58 ... automatically hide it

David Imel 1:13:58 ... when apps are open, the dock is hidden, right?

Speaker 1:13:59 Yeah, the dock's hidden.

David Imel 1:14:00 Oh, okay.

Speaker 1:14:00 Yeah, the dock's hidden.

David Imel 1:14:01 Oh.

Speaker 1:14:01 Every app opens full screen.

David Imel 1:14:03 Yeah.

Speaker 1:14:03 But as soon as you go home, the dock comes in from the right side.

David Imel 1:14:05 Oh.

Speaker 1:14:05 No, no, no.

David Imel 1:14:05 But-

Speaker 1:14:05 This is, this is Apple, okay? It's a computer, but it's not, like, a computer, you know?

David Imel 1:14:09 Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 1:14:09 What's a computer?

David Imel 1:14:10 I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. It's, it's rethought in interesting ways.

Speaker 1:14:11 It's kinda like the same way on Android phones, or at least foldables, they slide the dock in from the bottom-

David Imel 1:14:16 Yes

Speaker 1:14:16 ... and then when you open an app, it hides. We've just gotten used to that coming up from the bottom, 'cause that's where docks usually are.

David Imel 1:14:21 Yeah.

Speaker 1:14:21 But this one's on the right. It's more reachable.

David Imel 1:14:22 Yeah.

Speaker 1:14:23 W- I want more customization of that dock.

David Imel 1:14:25 For sure.

Speaker 1:14:25 Yeah.

David Imel 1:14:25 100%, 100%.

Speaker 1:14:27 So yeah, that's really nice.

David Imel 1:14:28 Yeah.

Speaker 1:14:29 Uh, you open the phone, you get this big, not huge, but bigger iPad Mini-type, uh, internal OLED display. And by the way, the iPad Mini's not OLED. It's just-

David Imel 1:14:40 Oh

Speaker 1:14:40 ... this is the nicest-

David Imel 1:14:41 Yeah

Speaker 1:14:41 ... seven-and-a-half inch Apple display.

David Imel 1:14:42 Yeah.

Speaker 1:14:43 And, um-

David Imel 1:14:43 Can we talk about the animation?

Speaker 1:14:45 Yeah. [laughs]

David Imel 1:14:45 It's so good.

1:14:46 I, I know.

Speaker 1:14:47 It, it is-

David Imel 1:14:48 Every time I-

Speaker 1:14:48 ... maybe the most important piece of software [laughs] on this phone.

David Imel 1:14:51 Which is so weird to say, but-

1:14:53 Every time I get excited about this, I feel like I'm a shill.

Speaker 1:14:57 I-

David Imel 1:14:58 Yep.

Speaker 1:14:58 [laughs]

David Imel 1:14:58 I, like, literally can't think about it-

Speaker 1:15:00 Because it's such a-

David Imel 1:15:00 ... without being like, "Someone's gonna yell at me about thinking that."

1:15:01 It's such a basic thing, but for some reason, it's the most delightful possible thing.

1:15:07 It sparks joy.

Speaker 1:15:07 I-

David Imel 1:15:07 It does spark joy

Speaker 1:15:08 ... people were describing it as, like, gradienting out. But when you really, like, look at it, w- so when it's closed and it opens, it's essentially leaving the screen behind and getting out of focus, right?

David Imel 1:15:19 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:15:19 And then because the screen feels like it stays there as you turn and see the screen on the interior, it's the same screen.

David Imel 1:15:25 It's-

Speaker 1:15:25 And you're like, "Whoa."

David Imel 1:15:27 Yeah.

Speaker 1:15:27 And as you're opening it fully, you're starting to see the screen that's-

David Imel 1:15:31 It's-

Speaker 1:15:31 ... like, invisible that's-

David Imel 1:15:32 It's so good

Speaker 1:15:33 ... and it snaps. Oh, my goodness.

David Imel 1:15:34 It makes you believe-

1:15:35 It's so good

1:15:35 ... it makes you believe that it's a, a real glass window.

1:15:38 Yeah.

Speaker 1:15:38 Yeah.

David Imel 1:15:39 That you are just, like, moving this glass. And it l- like, for some reason, there's b- the in between animation that the, f- your eyes are collecting is, like, as you're moving it and seeing that icon still being there-

Speaker 1:15:51 Yeah

David Imel 1:15:51 ... it just makes it feel like you're opening a glass-

Speaker 1:15:54 Whoever was in charge of this animation cooked. Uh, I think this animation's really important for several reasons.

David Imel 1:16:00 Yeah.

Speaker 1:16:00 One is, you, you used the word glass-

David Imel 1:16:02 Yeah

Speaker 1:16:02 ... which is, like, liquid glass kinda falls into this-

David Imel 1:16:03 Yes

Speaker 1:16:03 ... so, like, that's convenient for them. But-

David Imel 1:16:05 Yes

Speaker 1:16:05 ... two is, it intuitively gives you a, a little bit more of an understanding of the continuity that's happening, which is-

David Imel 1:16:12 Yeah

Speaker 1:16:12 ... when you're closed, you have the thing that's on the single screen. When you open it, you kind of get an idea of I am extending something to the left-

David Imel 1:16:20 Yes

Speaker 1:16:20 ... of my current screen.

David Imel 1:16:21 Yes.

Speaker 1:16:21 So I'm, like, adding to the left.

David Imel 1:16:22 Yes.

Speaker 1:16:23 So when it's open, whatever is on that right-hand screen when you close it from the left, you are aware that that is what's going to stay on the screen.

David Imel 1:16:29 It's still there. Yes, the continuity.

Speaker 1:16:31 So it's, it's-

David Imel 1:16:32 Yeah

Speaker 1:16:32 ... it's intuitive, but it helps you to understand what you're going to get when you close it.

David Imel 1:16:36 Yeah.

Speaker 1:16:37 And-

David Imel 1:16:37 Yeah

Speaker 1:16:37 ... it's very fast. And this, I didn't expect to hit me l- as hard as it did, but a lot of foldables, I've been using these for years, and, uh, Dave 2D talked about it in his video, but we've just gotten used to there being a little bit of a delay-

David Imel 1:16:48 Mm

Speaker 1:16:48 ... when you close a foldable. There's just a, a beat, and then it's ready to go.

David Imel 1:16:51 Yeah.

Speaker 1:16:51 And you open it, and there's a beat, and then it's ready. And there's just a little beat. And sometimes there's, like, a fun animation, like butterfly wings or whatever on your wallpaper or something. Uh, but this one, by the time I, like, swivel it open as fast as I can, like, the inside screen's already open. And by the time I close it, by the time I start to see the outside screen, it's already on.

David Imel 1:17:10 That's so cool.

Speaker 1:17:11 So it's a really fast animation.

David Imel 1:17:12 Yeah.

Speaker 1:17:13 I will not lie and say I didn't see any bugs. I did see some foldables bug out in the hands-on area and-

David Imel 1:17:18 Yeah

Speaker 1:17:18 ... bug out as we were testing them.

David Imel 1:17:20 Yeah.

Speaker 1:17:20 And I imagine this is a really hard animation to make it work perfectly every time, but for all of those reasons, I really want it to work perfectly every time-

David Imel 1:17:27 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:17:27 ... because it's really good.

David Imel 1:17:29 Yeah.

Speaker 1:17:29 So-

David Imel 1:17:30 Yeah

Speaker 1:17:30 ... that is, like, the thing, I posted a short of it. It's, like, the thing that helps you understand what's different about this foldable.

David Imel 1:17:36 Yeah.

Speaker 1:17:37 Everyone appreciates that.

David Imel 1:17:38 Yeah.

1:17:38 It had like 20 million views by the end of last night.

Speaker 1:17:40 It literally has 20 million views on Twitter.

David Imel 1:17:41 Yeah.

1:17:41 My entire feed was just UX designers losing their minds on it.

Speaker 1:17:44 Yeah. [laughs]

David Imel 1:17:45 It, by the time I think I had gotten back from recording Pod, the top-

Speaker 1:17:49 Yeah

David Imel 1:17:49 ... comment on the Galaxy subreddit was, "Why can't Samsung do this?"

Speaker 1:17:52 Oh.

David Imel 1:17:52 And by the time I woke up this morning, someone already put the animation [laughs] on a Samsung Fold.

1:17:56 Like, yeah, crazy.

Speaker 1:17:56 Yeah.

David Imel 1:17:57 Yeah.

Speaker 1:17:57 Which is in- I wanna see how well that works, 'cause if that's a third party, like, how do they do that?

David Imel 1:18:00 It's definitely third party, yeah.

Speaker 1:18:01 And is it gonna work?

David Imel 1:18:02 It also isn't perfect.

Speaker 1:18:02 Yeah, sure.

David Imel 1:18:03 But that's not what I'm saying.

Speaker 1:18:03 It's not built... Yeah.

David Imel 1:18:04 It was cool.

Speaker 1:18:04 It's still cool, though.

David Imel 1:18:05 Yeah.

1:18:06 Yeah.

Speaker 1:18:06 Um-

David Imel 1:18:06 And it makes sense to me why we knew everything about the Duo's hardware, but we had no idea how the software was gonna work. Like, Apple keeps that on lock, because this is the stuff that actually separates them from those other companies-

Speaker 1:18:18 Yeah

David Imel 1:18:18 ... and makes people like them, and the intuitiveness. The other super intuitive thing that I thought was really cool is when you open the device and, you know, you get the same, uh, continuity of the display from the front camera, and then you sort of extend it to the left. Normally, on your phone, you have multiple, like, home screens, right? You swipe to the right, you swipe to the left, and it shifts everything and it's like, oh, we're on a new page, new page, new page.

Speaker 1:18:40 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 1:18:40 But on the Duo, when you have it open and you swipe to the right or you swipe to the left, everything kinda just flows. And so it's almost as if there's one big, like, homepage that you can't see.

Speaker 1:18:52 It's a big canvas of pages.

David Imel 1:18:53 You're just moving, you're, like, shifting the canvas back and forth.

Speaker 1:18:57 Yeah. It's a-

David Imel 1:18:57 And the way that the animation works makes it feel like there's, there's just all of these apps that are sitting on your screen, and widgets and whatever, and you're kinda just, like, shifting the page back and forth.

1:19:07 Wait, so the home screen, like, scrolls instead of being paginated?

1:19:10 Yes, it scrolls instead of paginating.

Speaker 1:19:11 Well, no, no, it is paginated.

David Imel 1:19:12 Oh.

Speaker 1:19:13 But it, the animation as you move between pages helps you to understand that they are, like, separate.

David Imel 1:19:19 Yeah.

Speaker 1:19:19 So, like, on a, on a Oppo Find N6, you swipe and all, all of it moves at once.

David Imel 1:19:25 Mm-hmm.

1:19:25 Yeah.

Speaker 1:19:26 But on the Nia, or sorry, the Duo. [laughs]

David Imel 1:19:28 [laughs]

1:19:28 [laughs]

Speaker 1:19:29 On the Duo, you swipe, and, like, page, page.

David Imel 1:19:32 Yeah, it's like...

Speaker 1:19:33 And that little set-

David Imel 1:19:34 Oh, I love it. Love it

Speaker 1:19:34 ... that little distinction helps you understand that there's another page here-

David Imel 1:19:37 Yeah

Speaker 1:19:37 ... and there's another page here. So it's just, it's a clever-

David Imel 1:19:39 It's a subtle animation flow, but it-

Speaker 1:19:41 Yeah

David Imel 1:19:41 ... feels really cool. And even when you swipe into the app drawer, it's not like, boop, we're on the app drawer page. It's like the app drawer, like, flows in on the right side-

1:19:49 Mm

1:19:49 ... and then flows back out.

Speaker 1:19:50 Yeah.

David Imel 1:19:51 And it's-

1:19:51 The Apple du-flow.

1:19:52 It's r- yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 1:19:53 [laughs]

David Imel 1:19:53 It's kinda hard to explain, but I think-

Speaker 1:19:55 Yeah

David Imel 1:19:55 ... when we get it on video it'll be easier to see.

Speaker 1:19:57 Definitely.

David Imel 1:19:58 Yeah.

Speaker 1:19:59 But yeah, that inside screen, man, it is-

David Imel 1:20:01 Paper-like

Speaker 1:20:01 ... really good. Really, really good. So the two things that make it great, one is it has this, they called it a nano-texture finish-

David Imel 1:20:09 Yeah

Speaker 1:20:09 ... but it's some sort of an anti-glare finish on top-

David Imel 1:20:11 Yeah

Speaker 1:20:11 ... that makes it both really, really good at rejecting reflections-

David Imel 1:20:16 Yeah

Speaker 1:20:16 ... really great at, really good at hiding the crease, and really smooth to the touch with your finger as you, as you actually scroll.

David Imel 1:20:23 Yeah.

Speaker 1:20:23 Um, and, and yeah, this is one of the least crease visible foldables ever. It's not invisible, but on the scale of, like- First gen foldables to today's foldables, like with N6, this is right next to N6 with best I've ever seen.

David Imel 1:20:38 Yeah.

Speaker 1:20:39 You can run your finger over it and feel it a little bit-

David Imel 1:20:41 I will find N6

Speaker 1:20:41 ... but it's pretty close to not there.

David Imel 1:20:43 Yeah.

1:20:43 It's smart. I mean, like, we've gotten to the point, enough companies have made folding phones, creases have been getting better, but the number one way to see a crease is a weird light reflection.

Speaker 1:20:52 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 1:20:52 Yep.

1:20:53 Cut light reflections out-

Speaker 1:20:54 Exactly

David Imel 1:20:54 ... crease kinda goes away.

Speaker 1:20:56 Yeah.

David Imel 1:20:56 There are always going to... It is... Uh, anti-reflection still has reflections in some spots. I see people clipping out one frames out of everyone's video like, "Oh, my God, there's a giant crease in that." It's like, you are going to see it at some point on any phone.

Speaker 1:21:08 Yeah.

David Imel 1:21:08 I don't know if we will ever-

Speaker 1:21:09 Yeah

David Imel 1:21:09 ... get past that.

Speaker 1:21:09 Yeah.

David Imel 1:21:10 But it's, it was a smart move.

Speaker 1:21:11 Yeah. And as you look at content on the display, it really, like the, the bezels are even all the way around. There is a display, under-display selfie camera, so it's uninterrupted.

David Imel 1:21:21 Oh.

Speaker 1:21:21 Uh, but it looks-

David Imel 1:21:23 Is it?

Speaker 1:21:23 ... well, mostly uninterrupted, so it looks really, really good. Now, you wanna talk about that camera?

David Imel 1:21:26 Yeah, we can talk about that camera.

1:21:27 I do, 'cause nailed the crease. That camera did not nail it.

1:21:30 Real quick on the crease before we get there, they are using a titanium backplate, and that was Samsung's big innovation in the fold eight, too.

Speaker 1:21:37 Yeah. I heard them-

David Imel 1:21:38 Which I thought also helps get rid of the cr- the crease a little bit.

Speaker 1:21:40 I also heard, and maybe I'm making this up in my head, I heard carbon fiber back structures or something like that.

David Imel 1:21:45 Oh.

Speaker 1:21:45 There's a lot of engineering in the hinge-

David Imel 1:21:47 Yeah

Speaker 1:21:47 ... that I might not be quoting perfectly.

David Imel 1:21:48 And there's like 10 layers of display panel as well-

Speaker 1:21:51 Yeah

David Imel 1:21:51 ... that they use. So anyway, we can get to the under-display camera now. [laughs]

Speaker 1:21:53 Yeah. Okay.

David Imel 1:21:54 Yeah.

Speaker 1:21:54 So they do have the selfie camera on the front display. It's a corner cutout. And they do have, when you open it up, on the right-hand side, top middle, uh, behind those pixels is an under-display selfie camera. We've seen this before, okay, in Samsung foldables. They've tried this for a couple generations, and the idea was that they have this pixel matrix that has gaps between pixels, and they have to-

David Imel 1:22:16 It's like the Face ID

Speaker 1:22:17 ... yeah, they have to shine those pixels twice as bright when the display is on, 'cause it's half as many pixels. But it does a decent job at sort of like covering the hole.

David Imel 1:22:27 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:22:27 And then when you actually open the camera, it blacks out all those pixels and the camera can see through it. But it doesn't look great. [laughs]

David Imel 1:22:35 No.

1:22:36 No.

1:22:36 No.

Speaker 1:22:36 Those, those pixels-

David Imel 1:22:37 In two senses-

Speaker 1:22:38 Yeah

David Imel 1:22:38 ... yeah.

Speaker 1:22:38 The, the, the... Well, I don't actually, I guess I don't mind as much the, like, slightly pixelated look.

David Imel 1:22:44 I wanted to, to ask you. I talked about David, with David in the car this morning. I've seen some videos where I don't noti- pre, like, it activating, just when you're using the, the interior screen.

Speaker 1:22:53 Yeah.

David Imel 1:22:53 I've seen some videos where I don't notice it. I've seen some vi- videos where I can't not see it.

Speaker 1:22:58 I-

David Imel 1:22:58 And it's very annoying.

Speaker 1:22:59 Yeah.

David Imel 1:22:59 Like, it's very visible. I was... I said to David, it reminds me of, like, if you take two colors of paint that are very contrasty, they look like they should be apart. But when you take two colors of paint that are supposed to be the same color-

Speaker 1:23:10 [laughs] Yeah

David Imel 1:23:11 ... but are off-

1:23:11 Yeah

1:23:12 ... it's infuriating.

1:23:13 You know, yeah.

1:23:13 So, like, once you see that and you know it's supposed to be hidden-

1:23:17 Yeah

1:23:17 ... but you can see it, it's r- really frustrating and it's really obvious, I thought.

Speaker 1:23:21 It's one of those things where I wonder how much it being on camera-

David Imel 1:23:24 Yeah

Speaker 1:23:24 ... and, like, the moiré of, like, those pixels being in focus is, like, amplifying it a little bit.

David Imel 1:23:28 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:23:28 In person, I didn't mind it so much.

David Imel 1:23:30 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:23:31 Um, what I am more bummed about is how bad it makes the footage from the camera look.

David Imel 1:23:35 Yeah.

1:23:35 Yeah.

Speaker 1:23:35 Now, this is, to be fair, probably the least used camera on the device. Like, you'll use it for some FaceTimes-

David Imel 1:23:40 Yeah

Speaker 1:23:40 ... and maybe for some selfies if you really want to. I have a sample video from it in my hands-on video where you can tell.

David Imel 1:23:46 Yeah, it's not great.

Speaker 1:23:46 Doesn't look that good.

David Imel 1:23:47 It's hazy, for sure.

Speaker 1:23:48 Um, but like I said, we had this years ago. Samsung tried this. They never really got dramatically better.

David Imel 1:23:54 Yeah.

Speaker 1:23:55 And then they just stopped, and they just started doing the hole-punch cutout again.

David Imel 1:23:58 Yeah.

Speaker 1:23:58 And everyone was fine with it, and it looks like a good quality camera again.

David Imel 1:24:02 [sighs]

Speaker 1:24:02 And now Apple's doing it, and it doesn't look that much better. Like, we see a lot of new things. Apple waits till the right moment, jumps in, does it their way. This isn't, like, better than Samsung's version. So I wonder how long this lasts.

David Imel 1:24:12 Personally, I prefer this to a giant cutout.

1:24:16 Really?

1:24:17 Yeah.

Speaker 1:24:17 A giant cutout?

David Imel 1:24:17 I never wanted Samsung to go back to the regular camera. I-

Speaker 1:24:21 Interesting

David Imel 1:24:21 ... 'cause I think Apple thinks this way, too, where they're like, "We would prefer that we have this mostly uninterrupted interior display," and then-

Speaker 1:24:30 Feels more magical.

David Imel 1:24:31 Yeah, and then when you do use the camera, it shows up, but you just generally don't. And even if you did for, like, FaceTime or whatever, who cares about, like, if the, if it's, like, ultra sharp for FaceTime-

Speaker 1:24:42 That's fair

David Imel 1:24:42 ... you know? It's like the Zoom camera. It's the FaceTime camera. It's-

1:24:45 I think it's, like, one of those things-

1:24:46 I don't know

1:24:46 ... though, that it's, maybe it's not perfectly sharp, but now the more variables you introduce into it, like weird lighting conditions, I'm assuming are gonna be affected-

1:24:53 Yeah

1:24:53 ... even stranger than it. So, like, if you FaceTime outside, is now the whole thing gonna be in- crazy washed out and-

1:25:00 Yeah, it is hazy and stuff.

1:25:01 The more variables-

1:25:02 Yeah

1:25:02 ... it's kinda like how we say, "Oh, you can take a photo on the iPhone 1 in good lighting and it's gonna look great."

1:25:08 Yeah.

1:25:08 We, we think, "I thought it used to be bad." It's the variables.

1:25:12 I understand what you're saying, yeah.

1:25:12 Now we have a camera that's like-

1:25:13 Yeah

1:25:13 ... it can handle anything, and that doesn't feel like it's gonna handle-

1:25:16 Yeah, in low light, this is probably gonna be really bad.

1:25:18 Awful.

1:25:18 Like, especially bad, because like-

Speaker 1:25:20 Some of the, some of the first gen, uh, under s- under-display selfie cameras, when I take a photo in the office, uh, the overhead lights would get, like, doubled-

David Imel 1:25:28 Striped, yeah

Speaker 1:25:28 ... because the pixels, you could see the pixels through. It looked like you were looking-

David Imel 1:25:32 Yeah

Speaker 1:25:32 ... from behind the screen. It was-

David Imel 1:25:33 I remember this

Speaker 1:25:34 ... it was bad.

David Imel 1:25:35 Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1:25:35 And I, you know, we'll take this into other conditions. Apple's perfectly lit environment revealed that it looked-

David Imel 1:25:40 Yeah

Speaker 1:25:40 ... meh, but we'll see.

David Imel 1:25:41 I think that they just think about what is the amount of time that people spend using the screen versus using the camera on the interior of the screen.

Speaker 1:25:48 Which is probably the calculus they did-

David Imel 1:25:49 Yeah

Speaker 1:25:49 ... and they were like, "People almost never use this camera. Let's make it look better."

David Imel 1:25:53 That's my argument to get rid of it. Just-

Speaker 1:25:55 Get rid of it entirely

David Imel 1:25:56 ... just get rid of the inside camera.

1:25:57 You can't, you can't FaceTime then.

1:25:58 That's fine. Close the phone.

Speaker 1:25:59 Yeah.

David Imel 1:26:00 It's a Duo.

Speaker 1:26:00 It's such... It-

David Imel 1:26:01 I kind of agree with you

Speaker 1:26:02 ... does make sense to FaceTime-

David Imel 1:26:03 Yeah

Speaker 1:26:03 ... with that interior, 'cause now you have bigger screens of the other people-

David Imel 1:26:05 Yeah

Speaker 1:26:05 ... you're talking to.

David Imel 1:26:06 Yeah, but if I'm opening up the thing, it's because I wanna watch something more than I wanna be a part of ... Like, I, I wanna-

Speaker 1:26:11 Don't you wanna watch another person's face?

David Imel 1:26:13 No, I wanna watch the pe-

1:26:14 That's what I'm saying. Like, I'm not gonna open it up to, like-

Speaker 1:26:15 Yeah, but they have to see you.

David Imel 1:26:17 Yeah, close it, I mean. Like, use the phone closed with the front camera.

Speaker 1:26:19 Yeah, but what if you have two people, two... What if there's three people on FaceTime? Now you can see their faces better because it's-

David Imel 1:26:25 Everyone's been getting along fine with their regular phones.

Speaker 1:26:27 [laughs]

David Imel 1:26:27 That, that doesn't mean we can't do things better.

Speaker 1:26:29 Okay, hold on. What about the FaceTime where you tilt it halfway, and it's pointed at you from across the room, and you prop it up-

David Imel 1:26:34 That's cute

Speaker 1:26:35 ... and then you walk around.

David Imel 1:26:35 That's real cute. But-

Speaker 1:26:37 Yeah. [laughs]

David Imel 1:26:37 ... my argument is-

Speaker 1:26:37 I kinda agree

David Imel 1:26:38 ... the inside screen is for watching things and doing things.

Speaker 1:26:42 Oh.

David Imel 1:26:42 And if they wanna make the hit, take the hit, and, like, just remove the inside camera, and be like... The inside screen is perfect, 'cause it's beautiful.

Speaker 1:26:49 Mm.

David Imel 1:26:49 It's, like, the nano texture is sick. It's, like, a great display.

Speaker 1:26:51 Yeah.

David Imel 1:26:52 Just remove the camera. It's fine.

Speaker 1:26:54 So we have all three-

David Imel 1:26:55 [laughs]

Speaker 1:26:55 Disagree.

David Imel 1:26:55 We have all three spectrums. We have-

Speaker 1:26:57 Yeah

David Imel 1:26:58 ... make it a whole bunch, cut out.

Speaker 1:26:59 Crumple.

David Imel 1:26:59 I think it's fine. Get rid of it entirely.

Speaker 1:27:01 Just remove it.

Speaker 1:27:02 Yeah.

David Imel 1:27:03 Yeah. So we'll-

Speaker 1:27:03 Ellis says make it crumple. [laughs]

David Imel 1:27:04 Yeah.

Speaker 1:27:05 Yeah.

Speaker 1:27:05 Yeah.

Speaker 1:27:06 Yeah. I also think because we have the nano texture on the rest of the display, and you don't see any reflections, that portion does reflect more light. Like, if you, if you, like, tilt the phone in different directions, the rest-

David Imel 1:27:19 A little

Speaker 1:27:19 ... of the phone is, like, not really reflecting that much, but you see it more because it's like-

David Imel 1:27:22 Like, catches the light

Speaker 1:27:23 ... it catches more light.

David Imel 1:27:24 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:27:25 Yeah. So you know, I don't know. It's not a huge deal. Uh, you can now use the Apple Pencil with USB-C on both the outside and the inside.

David Imel 1:27:32 Oh.

Speaker 1:27:33 Yeah.

David Imel 1:27:33 Not yet.

Speaker 1:27:34 Not yet.

David Imel 1:27:34 Later this year.

Speaker 1:27:35 You will-

Speaker 1:27:35 Later this year

Speaker 1:27:35 ... be able to.

David Imel 1:27:36 [laughs]

Speaker 1:27:37 Yeah.

Speaker 1:27:37 Wait, only the USB-C one? You can't use Apple Pencil 2?

David Imel 1:27:39 Mm-mm.

Speaker 1:27:39 The-

Speaker 1:27:40 Or Pro

Speaker 1:27:40 ... okay, the reason for this almost definitely-

David Imel 1:27:42 Is fair

Speaker 1:27:42 ... is because you have to be able to charge the pencil, and Apple is so scared of selling people pencils that only magnetically charge to iPads [laughs] that you can't-

David Imel 1:27:51 But the charger.

Speaker 1:27:52 You can't. Yeah, the only way to charge it is-

David Imel 1:27:54 You mean, like, a separate dock charger?

Speaker 1:27:56 Yes.

Speaker 1:27:56 I guess, but still.

Speaker 1:27:57 What do you mean, you guess?

Speaker 1:27:58 Yeah, I guess you could... They could-

David Imel 1:27:59 I guess they could

Speaker 1:27:59 ... Apple could just sell us new chargers.

David Imel 1:28:00 It's a piece of plastic that big-

Speaker 1:28:02 I guess

David Imel 1:28:02 ... with a magnet in it.

Speaker 1:28:03 Yeah.

David Imel 1:28:03 Like, this is not rocket science.

Speaker 1:28:04 This is-

Speaker 1:28:04 I, they could-

David Imel 1:28:05 Ellis

Speaker 1:28:05 ... easily sell the Pr- I mean, it is annoying that you can't use the Pencil Pro on-

David Imel 1:28:10 Yeah.

Speaker 1:28:10 Mm

Speaker 1:28:10 ... the Pro, like, the big iPhone. But I think they're just afraid-

David Imel 1:28:15 I-

Speaker 1:28:15 ... of selling people a thing that is-

David Imel 1:28:16 I think that is it. It just stinks for someone who has an iPad already, and maybe-

Speaker 1:28:19 Yeah

David Imel 1:28:19 ... like, is carrying it, and that's where it's charging.

Speaker 1:28:21 Yeah.

David Imel 1:28:21 And you could pop it off and use it on your phone instead.

Speaker 1:28:23 Yeah. Something that's cool, someone brought an iPad Mini, um, to the demo area to show, like, the difference. The size is barely different of the actual display, but it makes the iPad Mini look like it's 20 years old. [laughs]

Speaker 1:28:35 'Cause of the bezels.

David Imel 1:28:35 The bezels.

Speaker 1:28:35 They gotta refresh the iPad Mini.

David Imel 1:28:37 It's funny.

Speaker 1:28:37 They have to refresh it. The iPad Mini is one of the most neglected high-potential products.

David Imel 1:28:41 I love mine.

Speaker 1:28:41 I lo- But what if it had an-

David Imel 1:28:42 It's so... It's, like, the only Apple thing I own, and it, it's my favorite

Speaker 1:28:43 ... I got my dad one, too. I love the iPad Mini, but what if it was an OLED and had, like, a really nice screen with an anti-reflective finish and, like, thinner bezels?

David Imel 1:28:50 He runs into you every five seconds.

Speaker 1:28:51 "Oh, hey, look. You got a iPhone Duo."

Speaker 1:28:53 I love that thing.

Speaker 1:28:53 "Look, it's iPhone Duo."

Speaker 1:28:54 It would, it would look-

David Imel 1:28:55 [laughs]

Speaker 1:28:55 Yeah

Speaker 1:28:55 ... great.

David Imel 1:28:55 The hinge is broken.

Speaker 1:28:56 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 1:28:56 [laughs]

Speaker 1:28:57 How, how long do you think we have to go before someone attempts to fold an iPad Mini and-

Speaker 1:29:01 [laughs]

Speaker 1:29:01 ... thinking it's a Duo?

David Imel 1:29:03 A while.

Speaker 1:29:03 Zachary Lionel does.

David Imel 1:29:05 [laughs]

Speaker 1:29:05 [laughs]

Speaker 1:29:05 He's gonna do it. Um-

David Imel 1:29:07 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:29:07 IP68, fully-

David Imel 1:29:09 Yeah

Speaker 1:29:09 ... uh, dust and water-resistant.

David Imel 1:29:10 Second phone, sec- second foldable with Xbox Game Pass.

Speaker 1:29:12 Pixel 10 Pro Fold and this.

David Imel 1:29:14 11 Pro Fold, too.

Speaker 1:29:15 Oh, 10 Pro Fold and... Sorry.

David Imel 1:29:17 10 Pro Fold was the first one.

Speaker 1:29:18 Was the first one.

Speaker 1:29:18 Yeah.

David Imel 1:29:18 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:29:18 And 11 Pro Fold.

David Imel 1:29:19 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:29:20 And now this.

David Imel 1:29:20 Yeah, now this.

Speaker 1:29:21 So that's nice.

Speaker 1:29:22 That's a big deal.

David Imel 1:29:22 One other thing we're, if we're speaking about Zack, is they had a very specific part where they mentioned the antenna parts and that they were reinforced.

Speaker 1:29:29 [laughs]

David Imel 1:29:29 'Cause they looked very similar to where the Pixel Fold antennas are-

Speaker 1:29:32 Oh

David Imel 1:29:32 ... which is where Zack keeps snapping them. But they specifically said there's reinforcements in those antennas.

Speaker 1:29:37 Zack is, like, challenging himself.

Speaker 1:29:38 That's gotta be one of the hardest videos to watch, dude.

Speaker 1:29:41 Yeah.

Speaker 1:29:41 Yeah. When he put sand in that thing, oh my God.

David Imel 1:29:43 [laughs]

Speaker 1:29:43 I mean, it always is for any phone.

Speaker 1:29:45 And you know you're gonna watch it, too.

Speaker 1:29:46 That's a s- With the new YouTube views, that's a 75 million view video-

Speaker 1:29:50 Yeah, I know

Speaker 1:29:51 ... when he snaps that in half.

Speaker 1:29:52 Yeah. That's true. Um-

David Imel 1:29:54 Yeah.

Speaker 1:29:54 Okay, so they have got two colors. I- they have, like, this pearlescent white, which-

David Imel 1:29:59 The best color.

Speaker 1:30:00 Eh.

David Imel 1:30:00 It's great.

Speaker 1:30:01 And then they had a, like, a midnight blue. What was it called?

Speaker 1:30:03 Black.

Speaker 1:30:04 Sun-

David Imel 1:30:04 It's not.

Speaker 1:30:05 No, it's like dark sky.

David Imel 1:30:05 Oh, it was dark sky.

Speaker 1:30:07 Dark sky, night sky.

David Imel 1:30:07 Night sky. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:30:08 Something like that.

David Imel 1:30:08 I'm gonna just look at it.

Speaker 1:30:09 They rhymed when they said both of them together. [laughs]

David Imel 1:30:11 Yeah.

Speaker 1:30:12 Oh, Pearl... Yeah. Oh, yeah, they, they rhymed.

David Imel 1:30:14 Starlight and night sky.

Speaker 1:30:15 It rhymed.

David Imel 1:30:15 I'm just looking at it.

Speaker 1:30:15 Yeah. Starlight, night sky.

David Imel 1:30:17 Night sky-

Speaker 1:30:17 That doesn't rhyme at all

David Imel 1:30:18 ... is the better color unfortunately.

Speaker 1:30:19 This is, like, a Jeopardy question.

David Imel 1:30:20 [laughs]

Speaker 1:30:21 Starlight, night sky-

David Imel 1:30:22 What is Starlight-

Speaker 1:30:22 ... iPhone Duo. [laughs]

David Imel 1:30:24 No, it's star white.

Speaker 1:30:25 Star white.

Speaker 1:30:26 Star white.

David Imel 1:30:26 Yeah.

Speaker 1:30:26 Star white.

Speaker 1:30:27 Why would they-

David Imel 1:30:27 Star light is, like, the, the yellowy-

Speaker 1:30:29 The goldy

David Imel 1:30:29 ... MacBook color.

Speaker 1:30:30 Why would they do that?

David Imel 1:30:31 Kinda looked like that.

Speaker 1:30:32 Star white-

David Imel 1:30:32 Because-

Speaker 1:30:32 ... and starlight? That's confusing.

David Imel 1:30:34 And then they went with burgundy. [laughs]

Speaker 1:30:36 [laughs]

Speaker 1:30:37 Hey, I'm, uh-

Speaker 1:30:38 Wine, wine barrel.

David Imel 1:30:39 Oxblood.

Speaker 1:30:40 Look, for a first-gen-

David Imel 1:30:41 Yeah, very close

Speaker 1:30:41 ... I, I'm gonna call this first-gen. For a first-gen foldable from Apple, uh, I think they overall did a pretty good job. I s- I mentioned that there are things I don't like. I don't love that it's only four items in the dock. Like, let me put five-

David Imel 1:30:55 Yeah

Speaker 1:30:55 ... or six. Like, let me customize that more. I don't love that it's only two cameras, but that's about as it's g- as good as it's gotten for this form factor.

David Imel 1:31:03 Oh.

Speaker 1:31:03 Like, the big Ultra one has had triple cameras, but this isn't the big Ultra one.

David Imel 1:31:07 Yeah.

Speaker 1:31:08 I think $2,000 is a pretty good price. I just, I, yeah, I think the animations and the software are what really make this phone different.

David Imel 1:31:15 Yeah. Speaking of the software, there's a few things that I wanna talk about with it. Um, they obviously had to bring more use cases to the Fold to actually entice people to have the Fold. Some of them are a little silly. Some of them are kind of intuitive. Some of them are things that the Android manufacturers have done that are either good or bad. Uh, one of them is kinda weird and interesting, is you can now d- you know standby mode. There's standby mode-

Speaker 1:31:40 Don't talk bad about standby mode

David Imel 1:31:40 ... which you do not, do not call it standby mode.

Speaker 1:31:42 Yeah.

Speaker 1:31:42 Why not?

David Imel 1:31:43 Why?

Speaker 1:31:43 'Cause it's the greatest feature Apple-

David Imel 1:31:45 It's awesome

Speaker 1:31:45 ... has ever released at anything.

Speaker 1:31:46 I didn't say it was bad.

David Imel 1:31:47 Oh, okay.

Speaker 1:31:47 You said it was weird.

David Imel 1:31:48 Yeah.

Speaker 1:31:49 Okay, but your implementation's kinda weird.

Speaker 1:31:51 It's awesome.

Speaker 1:31:52 You ha- Okay, do you remember the Lenovo, Lenovo Yoga Book 9i?

David Imel 1:31:56 Yes.

Speaker 1:31:56 Yeah, of course.

David Imel 1:31:56 The tent mode?

Speaker 1:31:57 Yeah.

Speaker 1:31:57 The first foldable laptop.

David Imel 1:31:59 Yeah.

Speaker 1:31:59 Well, or at least 360 hinge laptop.

David Imel 1:32:02 Your point, David? Don't talk bad about the Yoga Book.

Speaker 1:32:04 This, this is awesome, dude.

Speaker 1:32:05 [laughs]

Speaker 1:32:05 The new, the new alarm clock thing, the, the tent mode-

David Imel 1:32:08 It's-

Speaker 1:32:08 ... with the underglow.

David Imel 1:32:08 Look.

Speaker 1:32:09 Beautiful.

Speaker 1:32:09 It's cool. Okay, so here's what this is.

David Imel 1:32:11 [laughs]

Speaker 1:32:12 Uh, you can put it in tent mode.

David Imel 1:32:14 [laughs]

Speaker 1:32:14 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:32:14 It's weird that we put everything in tent mode.

David Imel 1:32:16 Go on.

Speaker 1:32:16 You got a big, you got a big clock on the right.

David Imel 1:32:19 Mm.

Speaker 1:32:19 You got a big time, and then you got a little calendar.

David Imel 1:32:21 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:32:21 And you don't need to be charging it now, uh, because it can go down as low as one hertz. So now you can just have it on your bedside table. Um-

Speaker 1:32:29 Don't forget the glow

David Imel 1:32:30 What do you mean the glow?

Speaker 1:32:31 It wakes you up with a soft underglow.

Speaker 1:32:33 Yes.

David Imel 1:32:34 Yeah.

Speaker 1:32:34 The inside-

Speaker 1:32:34 The inside-

David Imel 1:32:35 Oh

Speaker 1:32:35 ... interior screen can glow on to-

David Imel 1:32:36 Okay, that's actually kinda cool.

Speaker 1:32:37 It's sick.

David Imel 1:32:38 Because-

Speaker 1:32:38 Welcome. Welcome to our side

David Imel 1:32:38 ... like, the Philips Hue lamp and stuff that, they have, like, sunrise lamps, and their whole thing is that there's a glow next to your face.

Speaker 1:32:44 Mm-hmm.

David Imel 1:32:44 And that wakes you up.

Speaker 1:32:44 I don't know how much that's gonna do. But-

David Imel 1:32:46 It does cost a lot of money.

Speaker 1:32:47 It looks cool.

David Imel 1:32:47 It looks cool. You know, it's... Are you gonna tent mode all the time, Ellis?

Speaker 1:32:52 I don't think I would buy one.

Speaker 1:32:53 Yes. [laughs]

Speaker 1:32:54 But yeah.

Speaker 1:32:55 Yesterday-

David Imel 1:32:55 Okay. All right

Speaker 1:32:55 ... when we recorded our podcast yesterday-

David Imel 1:32:57 Yeah

Speaker 1:32:57 ... he was like... We were talking to a guest who came on, and he goes, "Oh, tent mode is so sick. I do really hope they make a stand that's a wireless charger."

David Imel 1:33:04 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:33:04 "Then you could put stand mode on it." And she goes-

David Imel 1:33:05 How would that work?

Speaker 1:33:06 ... "And it would charge from the inside." [laughs]

David Imel 1:33:08 Yeah, how would that work?

Speaker 1:33:09 [laughs]

David Imel 1:33:09 Yeah, you'd have to... You can slap a... By the way, it does have MagSafe.

Speaker 1:33:12 Oh, so you, you, you, you-

David Imel 1:33:12 Um

Speaker 1:33:12 ... you could put a camera that sees light through the screen, but God forbid a little wireless electricity goes through that thing.

David Imel 1:33:18 [laughs] Well, it'd have... It's, like, a big-

Speaker 1:33:21 There's a lot

David Imel 1:33:21 ... there's a lot of z dimension there.

Speaker 1:33:22 There's a lot between that coil and the iPhone.

David Imel 1:33:24 Yeah, there's a lot in there. [laughs]

Speaker 1:33:24 They have a trillion dollars. [laughs]

David Imel 1:33:26 They have $5 trillion, Ellis.

Speaker 1:33:28 [laughs]

David Imel 1:33:28 Let's be clear.

Speaker 1:33:29 They'll, they'll figure it out.

David Imel 1:33:30 Okay, so [laughs] other little changes. They did the thing that we've done since the beginning of time with foldables that I just don't really understand, where, you know, you can have the big video with, playing back when it's sideways, or you can fold it 90 degrees, and then there's playback controls, and the video is smaller.

Speaker 1:33:47 Yeah. I've never done that in my life.

David Imel 1:33:47 I have no idea why people care about this. Um-

Speaker 1:33:51 Yeah.

Speaker 1:33:51 And just use the example of, like, a livestream with chat on the bottom. That makes way more sense.

David Imel 1:33:55 Yeah.

Speaker 1:33:55 Maybe you do wanna read the chat on the bottom. But-

Speaker 1:33:57 You see the Netflix version of this?

David Imel 1:33:58 Yeah.

Speaker 1:33:59 I-

Speaker 1:33:59 Oh, God.

David Imel 1:33:59 So this is a very specific-

Speaker 1:34:01 Like, yeah

David Imel 1:34:01 ... to Netflix implementation.

Speaker 1:34:02 Yeah.

David Imel 1:34:03 So, yeah.

Speaker 1:34:03 So the Netflix app, you fold it halfway. The top half is playing your video. The bottom half is generating a, like, a glowy-

David Imel 1:34:12 Diffused

Speaker 1:34:12 ... diffused reflection of the bottom of your video-

David Imel 1:34:15 Yeah

Speaker 1:34:15 ... so that you can kinda-

David Imel 1:34:16 It feels immersive

Speaker 1:34:17 ... see it reflect-

David Imel 1:34:18 It's like those TV lights that you can have that, like-

Speaker 1:34:20 Yes, it's exactly

David Imel 1:34:21 ... kind of glow on the side

Speaker 1:34:22 ... exactly. It's exactly like that.

David Imel 1:34:23 Yeah. Uh, cool.

Speaker 1:34:25 Cool.

David Imel 1:34:25 I guess.

Speaker 1:34:25 Yeah.

David Imel 1:34:26 [laughs]

Speaker 1:34:26 I don't... It's very weird.

David Imel 1:34:27 First thing I asked was, "Can I turn that off?" [laughs]

Speaker 1:34:29 Yeah.

David Imel 1:34:30 It's weird.

Speaker 1:34:30 Yeah.

David Imel 1:34:31 Uh, and then they have a feature that I think a lot of other foldables have, where it's basically universal copy-paste between apps, uh, which is cool. So you can, you can have two apps open, and you can do the thing where you can, like, press and hold on an image, and it'll cut it out, and then you can drag it into another thing. W- I don't know how many people are gonna use this. They always use, like, Keynote as an example, which is a soft-

Speaker 1:34:51 Yeah

David Imel 1:34:51 ... a piece of software that I do n- I've never known a single person that has ever used Keynote.

Speaker 1:34:55 This is more for, like, emails or texting for me.

David Imel 1:34:58 Yeah, yeah, emails and texting w- is really nice, 'cause, so you have your email open, and you've got an image, and you wanna text it to someone. You can just drag it.

Speaker 1:35:04 Yeah.

Speaker 1:35:04 I also found it super useful-

David Imel 1:35:04 That's-

Speaker 1:35:05 ... for, like, two-factor.

David Imel 1:35:07 Yeah.

Speaker 1:35:07 Like, open up, like, Authy on the left-

Speaker 1:35:08 Oh, true

Speaker 1:35:08 ... and then just drag it over.

David Imel 1:35:09 And these are things that every other foldable has had for a very long time. So they're, they're doing all that stuff. Um, they just also implemented the small things, like the tent mode, which is, you know, strange.

Speaker 1:35:19 My takeaway from, like, my very limited, brief, early hands-on... And this, this comes out in October, so we'll have, like, a month or two-

David Imel 1:35:25 Yeah

Speaker 1:35:25 ... on this. But, like, my... I'm used to using, like, the, the Fold, Z Fold 8, and, like, the latest generations of foldables from other companies. And they are all, they all feel, like, very, to me, very intentional. Like, I get that phone, and I, when I open it up, I'm, like, deciding to be productive with it, and that's, like, an event. And then I close it, and it's over. But the, the, the Duo feels, like, a little playful. It feels like it's way more willing to go back and forth between open and closed. The animations are very thoughtful. It's just, it feels more fun to use.

David Imel 1:35:56 They heard Elsa-

Speaker 1:35:56 Despite being not any more functional.

David Imel 1:35:58 They heard-

Speaker 1:35:58 Yeah

David Imel 1:35:58 ... Elsa. There's no more whimsy in tech.

Speaker 1:36:00 Yeah.

David Imel 1:36:00 And that animation-

Speaker 1:36:01 Yeah, you got it

David Imel 1:36:02 ... had some whimsy to it.

Speaker 1:36:03 Yeah.

David Imel 1:36:03 We got a little hint of it.

Speaker 1:36:04 They did. They listened.

David Imel 1:36:04 Yeah.

Speaker 1:36:05 They did.

David Imel 1:36:05 So yeah, also, um, it uses the new C2 modem, which is supposed to be faster-

Speaker 1:36:10 Oh, yeah

David Imel 1:36:10 ... than C1X. Uh, it adds 5G millimeter wave for people who care, which is one person.

Speaker 1:36:15 [laughs]

David Imel 1:36:16 Uh, it has 50% charge in 20 minutes, which is nice. That's fairly quick.

Speaker 1:36:21 All-day battery.

David Imel 1:36:22 All-day battery life, baby.

Speaker 1:36:23 Never would've guessed. All-day battery.

Speaker 1:36:23 Trade-

David Imel 1:36:24 All-

Speaker 1:36:24 They got a trademark on it

David Imel 1:36:24 ... 24 hours of charge when using both screens equally. Which, look, the interior display is always gonna use a lot more power, so I'm at least glad that they give us these averages.

Speaker 1:36:34 I need to test it.

David Imel 1:36:34 That's kinda nice.

Speaker 1:36:35 I don't know how to use that number. I don't know how to-

David Imel 1:36:37 I, the numbers were-

Speaker 1:36:38 I know. I know.

Speaker 1:36:38 I appreciated them giving us more numbers, but they were-

David Imel 1:36:40 More averages

Speaker 1:36:41 ... kind of confusing.

David Imel 1:36:42 They are confusing. Um, also, it's eSIM only worldwide, which is a little bit different, 'cause usually European models of iPhone Pros have, uh, eSIM.

Speaker 1:36:49 Yeah.

David Imel 1:36:50 I mean, have a physical SIM.

Speaker 1:36:50 Try to maximize the battery.

David Imel 1:36:52 That's about it, yeah. So it comes out October 23rd with pre-orders on October 16th. And again, 1999. So we're gonna go to trivia now.

Speaker 1:37:01 Let's do it.

David Imel 1:37:02 [laughs]

Speaker 1:37:03 [laughs] We've been typing today on this phone.

Speaker 1:37:04 You got my letter?

David Imel 1:37:05 [laughs]

Speaker 1:37:07 Yelling at you.

Speaker 1:37:07 Guys, could you scroll all the way down and, and read what I wrote?

Speaker 1:37:09 Worldwide-

David Imel 1:37:10 You wrote something

Speaker 1:37:10 ... how many times per day do people query Siri?

Speaker 1:37:14 Hmm.

David Imel 1:37:15 Price Is Right?

Speaker 1:37:15 Pri- uh, yes, Price Is Right rules. If you go over, you are eliminated.

Speaker 1:37:20 Oh.

David Imel 1:37:20 From Apple campus.

Speaker 1:37:21 Yeah.

David Imel 1:37:22 We'll have security come and take you out.

Speaker 1:37:23 'Cause we can do that.

Speaker 1:37:24 There's actually a hole below your chair, and it'll just open up.

David Imel 1:37:26 [laughs]

Speaker 1:37:26 Whoa.

David Imel 1:37:27 No, it's more of a very compressed-

Speaker 1:37:28 Oh, I just dropped my pants

David Imel 1:37:29 ... spring that shoots you out-

Speaker 1:37:30 [laughs]

David Imel 1:37:30 ... the, the roof.

Speaker 1:37:32 All of Apple Campus is actually a convertible for that reason.

Speaker 1:37:34 Yeah.

Speaker 1:37:35 And by convertible, I mean there's no ceiling.

Speaker 1:37:37 [laughs]

David Imel 1:37:38 I was like, "Do you guys hear that?" And it's 'cause it's the trivia music. I-

Speaker 1:37:41 Yeah.

David Imel 1:37:41 The trivia music is just white noise in my head at this point.

Speaker 1:37:45 Nice.

Speaker 1:37:45 All right, uh, everyone read out your answers. Actually, David wins.

David Imel 1:37:49 [laughs]

Speaker 1:37:49 [laughs]

Speaker 1:37:50 What did David say?

David Imel 1:37:51 We're spaced out by, like, 2 billion each. I wrote 1 billion.

Speaker 1:37:54 Uh, David wr- uh, the, it was 2.5 billion, so you-

Speaker 1:37:57 That's 2.5

Speaker 1:37:58 ... you both went over.

David Imel 1:37:58 Okay.

Speaker 1:37:59 I thought it was 3.5-

David Imel 1:37:59 Okay, but-

Speaker 1:38:00 ... so I went a little under.

David Imel 1:38:00 Yeah, you're the answer. I put 3.2.

Speaker 1:38:01 I was like, "Through that audio listeners."

David Imel 1:38:02 I wrote 5 billion. I was too high.

Speaker 1:38:04 Okay.

David Imel 1:38:04 All right.

Speaker 1:38:05 Yeah.

David Imel 1:38:05 Yay.

Speaker 1:38:05 Uh, during the AirPods 5 announcement-

David Imel 1:38:06 Marques is really depressed. Vital triggers are going on

Speaker 1:38:08 ... during the AirPods 5 announcement, what cities were the trains going to-

David Imel 1:38:11 Oh, geez

Speaker 1:38:11 ... that were delayed?

David Imel 1:38:12 From LA.

Speaker 1:38:14 Sure. I don't know.

David Imel 1:38:14 Is Pasadena a different city than LA?

Speaker 1:38:16 It is a different city, but it's not far enough to warrant getting on a big old train.

Speaker 1:38:20 Yeah, you could walk there. It's very walkable, California.

David Imel 1:38:22 Right.

Speaker 1:38:23 I, I was-

Speaker 1:38:23 Specifically northern California.

David Imel 1:38:24 Specifically naming two California cities, and I'm having a hard time.

Speaker 1:38:26 That are in the general-

David Imel 1:38:27 If you were paying attention-

Speaker 1:38:28 ... Southern California area

Speaker 1:38:28 ... I'll give you, I'll give you a hint. You want another hint?

Speaker 1:38:30 I, it won't help.

David Imel 1:38:31 Yeah.

Speaker 1:38:31 One of them is a macOS version.

Speaker 1:38:33 I have a hint for you.

David Imel 1:38:34 I was gonna actually write this before, but only because Adrian kept saying it yesterday.

Speaker 1:38:38 Oh.

Speaker 1:38:38 Flippity flip. Oh, you're gonna be wrong then.

David Imel 1:38:40 Flippin' rain. [laughs] Then I'm wrong. I'm not even flipping.

Speaker 1:38:42 Hey.

David Imel 1:38:43 It was Studio City.

Speaker 1:38:44 Why do you know what that is? That's where I grew up.

David Imel 1:38:47 Oh.

Speaker 1:38:48 Yeah.

David Imel 1:38:48 Oh, that's where I've heard this.

Speaker 1:38:49 That, yeah. [laughs]

David Imel 1:38:50 Okay, yeah. That's where I've heard this before.

Speaker 1:38:51 Is that one of the places?

Speaker 1:38:52 Also, there were two cities.

David Imel 1:38:53 [sighs]

Speaker 1:38:53 You could've put two cities.

Speaker 1:38:54 I can think of the other one.

Speaker 1:38:54 Studio City is in Los Angeles.

Speaker 1:38:55 It's...

Speaker 1:38:56 Uh, it's-

Speaker 1:38:56 Oh.

Speaker 1:38:56 Yeah.

Speaker 1:38:57 All right.

David Imel 1:38:57 Dang. No.

Speaker 1:38:57 I wrote San Diego as one.

David Imel 1:38:59 And what's the other one?

Speaker 1:39:00 Sonoma, which is not.

David Imel 1:39:02 That is not.

Speaker 1:39:02 I know a place.

David Imel 1:39:03 But San Diego, you got it.

Speaker 1:39:04 Heyo.

David Imel 1:39:05 Oh.

Speaker 1:39:05 Aw.

David Imel 1:39:05 That's three points. I said it was worth three points.