How to Become Resilient, Forge Your Identity & Lead Others | Jocko Willink

(soft rock music plays) Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. Today my guest is Jocko Willink. Jocko Willink is a retired Navy SEAL and author of numerous important books on leadership and team dynamics and the host of the Jocko Podcast. During his 20-year career with the U.S. Navy, Jocko served with SEAL Team 3 as commander of Task Unit Bruiser in Ramadi, Iraq, and elsewhere in the Middle East, as well as deployments in Asia and Europe. After retiring from the Navy, Jocko used his experience and knowledge gleaned from his time in the SEAL Teams as a way to develop tools that anybody can use to develop their leadership skills, both for leading themselves and for leading others. That took the form of several important books, the first of which was published in 2015 and is entitled Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALS Lead and Win. He has also authored several books for kids about leadership, personal development, and how to navigate various aspects of life. I've read both Extreme Ownership and The Way of the Warrior Kid, and I found them to be immensely useful in terms of actionable information and understanding of one's self and different kinds of relationships, both in and out of the workplace. Typically, guests on the Huberman Lab Podcast are scientists and/or clinicians. It was some time ago that I was a guest on the Jocko Podcast, and during the course of our conversation on his podcast, we quickly realized that many of the science-based tools that my laboratory has focused on and that I've used over the years and shared on the Huberman Lab Podcast had direct overlap and parallel with many of the tools that Jocko and other members of the SEAL Teams had arrived at independently, that is without knowledge of the underlying science. And in fact, he had many more tools that he had incorporated during his years in the SEAL Teams, as well as in business leadership, in family, and elsewhere in life, that I quickly realized it would be an enormously valuable conversation to have him on this podcast in order to share those tools with the general public. During today's episode, we discuss numerous tools that Jocko has taught and used over the years in a number of different contexts, including tools for generating more physical energy, and for generating more focus and cognitive energy, and for navigating sticking points, that is how to deal with lack of motivation, how to deal with difficult relationships in the workplace and elsewhere, and perhaps most importantly, how to think about and navigate the self. In fact, we spend quite a bit of time talking about this notion of the self and one's self-identity and how self-identity plays into our ability to engage in actions of specific types consistently over time, where it can hold us back, how to gain better perspective, and how to help others gain better perspective so that we can work better with them and them with us. We also go deep into the likely scientific mechanisms underlying why the tools that Jocko teaches and uses are so effective. In fact, one thing that you'll immediately notice is that Jocko was writing things down and I was writing things down throughout the conversation, and that just reflects the fact that he's not just an immensely powerful teacher, he's also a practitioner and an avid learner. He's always seeking knowledge. So we kick back and forth our ideas about what likely does and does not underlie different tools and techniques, focusing, of course, mostly on what works in the practical sense in the world. What I can assure you is that by the end of today's episode, thanks to Jocko's immense generosity and curiosity, you will come away with a large number of tools and much richer understanding of how to navigate and enhance mental health, physical health, and performance in all aspects of life. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast. Our first sponsor is Maui Nui. Maui Nui is venison that is by far the most nutrient-dense and delicious red meat commercially available. Maui Nui spent nearly a decade building a USDA-certified wild harvesting system to help balance invasive deer populations on the island of Maui. The solution they built turns the proliferation of an otherwise invasive species into a wide range of nutrient-dense products, from fresh butcher cuts and organ meats to bone broth, jerky, and even pet treats. The quality and nutrient value of Maui Nui meats is extraordinary. For instance, their bone broth has an unmatched 25 grams of protein per 100 calories. As I've talked about with guests and in solo episodes of this podcast, getting adequate protein intake, and in particular high-quality protein intake, is extremely important. Current research suggests that most people should be getting about one gram per pound of body weight of quality protein per day, and Maui Nui meats are of the absolute highest quality in terms of the amino acid profile and other nutrients contained in their venison. If you would like to try Maui Nui venison, go to mauinuivenison.com/huberman to get 20% off your first order. Again, that's mauinuivenison.com/huberman to get 20% off. Today's episode is also brought to us by Eight Sleep. Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep-tracking capacity. I've discussed many times before on this podcast about the key importance of temperature in regulating the quality of your sleep. Put simply, in order to fall asleep and stay deeply asleep throughout the night, your body temperature has to drop by about one to three degrees, and waking up, conversely, involves your body temperature increasing by about one to three degrees. Now, people vary in their core body temperature and whether or not they tend to run hot or cold throughout the night, but with Eight Sleep mattresses and mattress covers, you can literally program in the exact temperature that you want to sleep in, and that allows you to fall deeply asleep, go into slow-wave sleep and REM sleep, that is rapid eye movement sleep, in the exact sequence that you need to in order to have the best quality sleep, and it will even track your sleep for you. I've been sleeping with an Eight Sleep mattress cover on my mattress for about eight months now, and it is incredible. My sleep was already pretty good, and now it is fantastic, and I feel so much more alert and focused. My mood is far better throughout the day. I thought I was optimized, and with Eight Sleep, now I realize I had a lot more room to improve my sleep and my daytime wakefulness. If you'd like to try Eight Sleep, you can go to eightsleep.com/huberman and check out their Pod Pro Cover and save $150 at checkout. Eight Sleep currently ships in the USA, Canada, UK, and selected countries in the EU and Australia. Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman to save $150 at checkout. Today's episode is also brought to us by LMNT. LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't. That means the exact ratios of electrolytes are in LMNT, and those are sodium, magnesium, and potassium.... but it has no sugar. I've talked many times before on this podcast about the key role of hydration and electrolytes for nerve cell function, neuron function, as well as the function of all the cells and all the tissues and organ systems of the body. If we have sodium, magnesium, and potassium present in the proper ratios, all of those cells function properly, and all our bodily systems can be optimized. If the electrolytes are not present and if hydration is low, we simply can't think as well as we would otherwise, our mood is off, hormone systems go off, our ability to get into physical action, to engage in endurance and strength and all sorts of other things is diminished. So with LMNT, you can make sure that you're staying on top of your hydration and that you're getting the proper ratios of electrolytes. If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to DrinkLMNT. That's L-M-N-T.com/huberman, and you'll get a free LMNT sample pack with your purchase. And right now, LMNT has two special flavors for the holidays, chocolate caramel and mint chocolate. By the way, both of those taste extremely good cold, and even better, I find, heated up. Uh, believe it or not, you can have them as kind of a tea. They're delicious, and all of their flavors are delicious. For the ones that you drink typically cold, I like the raspberry flavor, the watermelon flavor, and frankly, I like the citrus flavor as well. They're all delicious. So again, if you wanna try LMNT, you can go to LMNT, L-M-N-T.com/huberman. The Huberman Lab Podcast is now partnered with Momentous Supplements. To find the supplements we discuss on the Huberman Lab Podcast, you can go to Live Momentous, spelled O-U-S, livemomentous.com/huberman. And I should just mention that the library of those supplements is constantly expanding. Again, that's livemomentous.com/huberman. And now for my discussion with Jocko Willink. Jocko Willink, welcome.