Build a Strong, Pain-Proof Back | Dr. Stuart McGill

(Upbeat music) Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. Stuart McGill. Dr. Stuart McGill is a distinguished professor of spine biomechanics at the University of Waterloo. As a professor for more than three decades, Dr. McGill has analyzed the spines of injured people as well as healthy people, and developed methods to treat spine injuries and pain, as well as to improve spine biomechanics in anybody. He has authored more than 250 peer-reviewed research articles on these topics, making him a true world expert. During today's episode, we discuss spine anatomy as well as the common sources of back pain, and we discuss some of the controversies as to the origins and different treatments for back pain. As you'll quickly learn, there is no one specific source of back pain, nor is there one specific solution to back pain. But, as Dr. McGill spells out very clearly, there are things that anyone and everyone can do in order to strengthen their back and to reduce the amount of pain they may be experiencing. He explains some specific ways to self-diagnose your back pain, which, of course, is critical for understanding what specific things to do as well as to avoid in dealing with any pain, and as it relates to applying in sport and in everyday life. Dr. McGill and I also discuss several of the avid controversies within the field of back pain and the treatments for back pain. We talk about the so-called biopsychosocial model of pain, which points to the various sources that pain can arise from. Everything from emotional, to lack of sleep, to specific locations in the spine and brain and elsewhere in the body, and the ways those mesh together to give us what we call pain, as well as to direct us towards specific treatments for pain that tend to be especially effective. Dr. McGill is a true encyclopedia on the topics of back physiology and anatomy, sources of back pain, and treatments for back pain. So it's truly a special opportunity to be able to learn from him in such immense detail and in such a clear and actionable way. By the end of today's episode, you will have a quite thorough understanding about the anatomy and physiology of the back as it relates to a healthy back, to back pain, and of course, you'll have various remedies for dealing with back pain, preventing back pain, and for strengthening your back for all sorts of different kinds of movement. Not just for exercise and sport, but also to move through your daily activities pain-free and with ease and mobility at any age. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast. Our first sponsor is Helix Sleep. Helix Sleep makes mattresses and pillows that are customized to your unique sleep needs. Now, I've spoken many times before on this and other podcasts about the fact that getting a great night's sleep is the foundation of mental health, physical health, and performance. Now, one of the keys to getting a great night's sleep is to make sure that your mattress is suited to your unique sleep needs. What does that mean? Well, if you go to the Helix website, you can take a brief two-minute quiz, and it asks you questions such as, "Do you sleep on your back, your side, or your stomach? Do you tend to run hot or cold during the night?" Things of that sort. Maybe you know the answers to those questions, maybe you don't. Either way, Helix will match you to the ideal mattress for you. For me, that turned out to be the Dusk mattress made by Helix. I started sleeping on a Dusk mattress about three and a half years ago, and it's been far and away the best sleep that I've ever had. So if you'd like to sleep better by sleeping on a mattress that's customized to your unique sleep needs, go to helixsleep.com/huberman, take that brief two-minute sleep quiz, and Helix will match you to a mattress that's ideal for you. Right now, Helix is giving up to 30% off mattresses and two free pillows. Again, that's helixsleep.com/huberman to get 30% off and two free pillows. Today's episode is also brought to us by BetterHelp. BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out entirely online. I've been doing weekly therapy for well over 30 years. Initially, I didn't have a choice. It was a condition of being allowed to stay in school. But pretty soon I realized that therapy is an extremely important component to overall health. There are essentially three things that great therapy provides. First of all, great therapy consists of having good rapport with somebody that you can really trust and talk to about the issues that you're dealing with. Second of all, that therapist should provide support in the form of emotional support or directed guidance. And third, expert therapy should provide useful insights. Insights that allow you to better understand not just your emotional life and your relationship life, but of course also your relationship to yourself, and to career goals and school goals. Meaning, excellent therapy should also inspire positive action. BetterHelp makes it very easy for you to find an expert therapist with whom you really resonate with, and that can provide the benefits that I just described. If you'd like to try BetterHelp, you can go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month. Again, that's betterhelp.com/huberman. Today's episode is also brought to us by Waking Up. Waking Up is a meditation app that offers hundreds of guided meditation programs, mindfulness trainings, yoga nidra sessions, and more. I started practicing meditation when I was about 15 years old, and it made a profound impact on my life. In recent years, I started using the Waking Up app for my meditations, because I find it to be a terrific resource for allowing me to really be consistent with my meditation practice. What I and so many other people love about the Waking Up app is that it has a lot of different meditations to choose from. And those meditations are of different durations, so it makes it very easy to keep up with your meditation practice, both from the perspective of novelty, you never get tired of those meditations. There's always something new to explore and to learn about yourself, and you can always fit meditation into your schedule even if you only have two or three minutes per day in which to meditate. I also really like doing yoga nidra, or what is sometimes called non-sleep deep rest, for about 10 or 20 minutes, because it is a great way to restore mental and physical vigor without the tiredness that some people experience when they wake up from a conventional nap. If you'd like to try the Waking Up app, please go to wakingup.com/huberman, where you can access a free 30-day trial. Again, that's wakingup.com/huberman to access a free 30-day trial. And now for my discussion with Dr. Stuart McGill.Dr. Stuart McGill, welcome.