JRE MMA Show #151 with Bo Nickal

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What's up, Bo? How are you?

Good. How you doing?

What's happening?

Not much.

I was gonna ask you, w- we were just looking at that photo of Karelin and talking about the Soviet program and the doping program. Did you ever see that movie, uh, Icarus?

Yeah, I did watch that.

Fucking wild.

Crazy. I- I thought it was just insane too how it didn't even really start off the way that it ended. Like, he wasn't even really trying to like figure all this stuff out. He just like fell into it, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Total dumb luck.

Yeah, but I mean, since I- I wrestled my whole life and stuff and pay attention to the international scene, it's like, it's not really a secret. Like, everybody kind of knows, right? Just like, that's the first legitimate real proof that somebody's kind of come out with. But I mean, everybody kind of knew, like that's what's going on.

But that was so insane though, that they had a hole in the wall where they were-

Yeah.

... handing through-

The urine samples, right? Yeah.

... the dirty urine and getting back clean urine and then submitting that. And if it wasn't for microanalysis of the jars, then they realize, oh, the Soviets had figured ... well, it wasn't the Soviets, it was the Russians, had figured out some way to- to open up these unopenable jars-

Yeah.

... 'cause they had scratched them-

Right.

... in little places.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, they freaking ... they wanna win really bad. And it's like, for them too, it's a- it's a different level. Like, uh, the guys that- that won that were very successful, um, maybe 10, 15, 20 years ago, those guys are like big government positions and stuff. Like m- like in the U.S., in the U.S. you win the Olympics in wrestling, you win like a quarter million bucks and it's a big deal for like a month and then you kind of move on. But over there, it's like you're kind of set for life.

Really?

So it's like ... yeah, it's like a different ... it's a completely different, uh, kind of motivation I think.

Yeah, what is it like competing when you know that there's like state-sponsored programs that are involved in these other countries-

(laughs)

... doping up their athletes?

It's pretty weird. You know, I think that because like I said, I kind of grew up ... you grow up with an understanding o- of it, knowing like this is kind of the way it works, uh, you just ... you're ready for it, you're prepared, you understand, but ... and I'm sure I've competed against a lot of guys that were doping and doing stuff, but the one experience that I had that was like, uh, really kind of prominent in my mind, so I wrestled this dude ... I- I wrestled at a tournament in Rome. This was a few years ago and I was trying to go up from ... I was in between weights, so my weight was, uh, 86 kilos or 97 kilos, and I was ... and I ... it was kind of having a little trouble with my lower back, so I was like, "I don't wanna cut, I just wanna like get bigger." And so I came in, uh, and I was weighing, uh, like 210, which the weight class is 213, 97 kilos, and I was like, "I'll be fine, like I'll be good." And, uh, I rolled up, uh, to this second round match and I was wrestling this Ir- Iran- Iranian dude, and my coa- uh, my coaches weren't there with me so I had like some different coaches and they didn't really warn me who this dude was. I had wrestled the number one Iranian guy a few months earlier and I tech- I tech falled him, like I killed him, so I was like, "I'm gonna smash this dude, like I don't even ... I don't give a crap." This dude comes out, he's like two inches taller than me, freaking jacked as hell, and, uh, does a forward roll and h- like squat jump and his feet are like over my head, and I'm like, "What the hell is going on here?"