Joe Rogan Experience #1443 - Jonathan Ward
Joe Rogan (host), Jonathan Ward (guest), Guest (secondary / off-mic researcher) (guest)
In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, featuring Joe Rogan and Jonathan Ward, Joe Rogan Experience #1443 - Jonathan Ward explores artisan Car Builder Jonathan Ward On Craft, Cars, And Resilience Jonathan Ward, founder of ICON and TLC, talks with Joe Rogan about obsessive craftsmanship, from hand‑built leather jackets to radically reimagined classic vehicles like derelict Mercurys and Broncos.
Artisan Car Builder Jonathan Ward On Craft, Cars, And Resilience
Jonathan Ward, founder of ICON and TLC, talks with Joe Rogan about obsessive craftsmanship, from hand‑built leather jackets to radically reimagined classic vehicles like derelict Mercurys and Broncos.
They dig into Ward’s philosophy of honoring original automotive design while upgrading drivability, safety, and technology, including ambitious electric conversions and future trends in EV hot‑rods.
The conversation widens into industry problems—aftermarket junk, copycat builders, overregulation in California, and the broken incentives in education, healthcare, and law.
Ward also reflects on personal priorities in light of his wife’s cancer, arguing for passion‑driven work, personal accountability, and using crises like COVID as a catalyst to rethink life and society.
Key Takeaways
Honor original design language while modernizing function.
Ward aims to keep the era‑correct look and character of classic vehicles—often including weathered paint and patina—while upgrading drivetrains, brakes, interiors, and safety so they drive like modern cars without becoming trendy or dated.
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Short, high‑quality creative loops keep artisans fulfilled.
As his shop scaled up, Ward missed hands‑on making; building leather goods in a home studio—from sketch to finished jacket or wallet—restored his tactile connection to craft and is becoming a second brand and revenue stream.
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EV retrofits need to prioritize engineering, not just bolt‑on kits.
Most electric conversions simply bolt motors to old transmissions, sacrificing efficiency and safety; Ward argues for purpose‑built solutions with proper thermal management, modern battery tech, and transmission‑less or planetary setups.
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Protecting brand integrity means saying no, even when money is offered.
Ward refuses projects that don’t excite him or align with his standards, believing true passion and obsession are prerequisites for exceptional work and long‑term brand value, even if that limits volume or short‑term profit.
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Small manufacturers are squeezed by regulation and legal risk.
From zoning disputes over lifts to complex emissions and labor rules, Ward describes how California’s legal and regulatory environment diverts time and money away from innovation and fair wages, threatening niche craft businesses.
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Technological progress doesn’t guarantee adoption—politics and money matter.
Stories of toroidal engines, Bloom Boxes, hydrogen concepts, and the film “Who Killed the Electric Car? ...
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Crises can refocus life on health, accountability, and meaningful work.
Ward’s wife’s cancer and the COVID outbreak pushed him to re‑evaluate what actually matters—health, family, and doing work you love—and he urges people to use uncertainty as a reason to pursue passion projects, even nights and weekends.
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Notable Quotes
“If you're not totally into it and you're not balls deep into it, then pull out and zip up and go home.”
— Jonathan Ward
“At the end of the day, what's actually getting used and enjoyed and creating more memories—one of my vehicles that are hacked and ‘ruined,’ or something sitting in some static collection gathering dust?”
— Jonathan Ward
“Nothing that’s worth doing is easy. But once you understand the importance of being impassioned about what you do, the risk… it’s not even debatable.”
— Joe Rogan
“I honestly have guys that I think I should be paying 70, 80, 90, 100 grand a year to do what they do, ’cause they’re artists and they deserve it. The bullshit of running a business in California… means I can’t.”
— Jonathan Ward
“As the world becomes more digital and people become more disconnected, there’s something about a functional piece of art… When I drive your Bronco, I feel like I’m driving your sculpture.”
— Joe Rogan
Questions Answered in This Episode
How far should builders like Ward go in modernizing classics before they lose the soul of the original car?
Jonathan Ward, founder of ICON and TLC, talks with Joe Rogan about obsessive craftsmanship, from hand‑built leather jackets to radically reimagined classic vehicles like derelict Mercurys and Broncos.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
What would a truly well‑engineered, off‑the‑shelf EV ‘crate system’ for retrofit hot rods need to include to be both safe and future‑proof?
They dig into Ward’s philosophy of honoring original automotive design while upgrading drivability, safety, and technology, including ambitious electric conversions and future trends in EV hot‑rods.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
How can small, craft‑driven companies realistically protect their IP and design language from copycats without burning bandwidth and money?
The conversation widens into industry problems—aftermarket junk, copycat builders, overregulation in California, and the broken incentives in education, healthcare, and law.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
To what extent are regulations necessary for safety and emissions, and where do they cross the line into actively killing innovation and small manufacturing?
Ward also reflects on personal priorities in light of his wife’s cancer, arguing for passion‑driven work, personal accountability, and using crises like COVID as a catalyst to rethink life and society.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
What practical steps can someone in a ‘safe but miserable’ job take, starting nights and weekends, to move toward the kind of passion‑driven work Ward describes?
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Transcript Preview
... one. Jonathan, you are the first man ever... Not only the first man I've ever met who made his own leather jacket-
(laughs)
... but absolutely the first man who made his own leather jacket who's ever been on the podcast wearing that jacket.
Why, thank you so much.
It's a fucking sweet jacket, man.
I'd show you my G-string, but it's probably-
(laughs)
... a little much for this time of day. (laughs)
Well, how are you functioning... Uh, is it, like, on the side? How are you tying that one?
Well, I like... I prefer a center rear yank.
Oh.
So does my wife 'cause it's... She can just put the leash right on it and, you know-
Nice.
... two for one. Keeps her, keeps me on the-
When did you get into making leather stuff? Is that a, a recent thing?
Uh, about three years ago. But, I mean, Joe, my whole life I've just been a rampant fan of craftsmanship.
Mm-hmm.
And I've done various deep dives throughout my life into, like, all sorts of different art forms. In fact, the reason automotive design became my thing and turned into a business was because my hobbies of painting and sculpting and, and finish carpentry, woodwork, and all these different things. If you think about it, transportation is like this incredibly communicable extroverted combination of so many different art forms.
Yeah.
So, I've been also as... In my travels in the last 10 years or so, or, uh, maybe five, I've really been focusing on... Always have been focusing on, like, getting immersed in that local culture. But now I've stepped that up a notch and I'm doing, like, these deep dive travels into different art forms of different cultures, so leather craft. I've been visiting tanneries and studying for masters in the US and in, uh, Morocco and Mexico. I just got back, liks- last week, uh, from Mexico doing it.
Really?
Yeah, it's super fun. And it's zen because for me now at this point, the scale of the shop is such that I'm actually doing a disservice if I'm out there actually building your car, right? And 'cause that's what I used to do. I'd weld it and shape it when I was on the floor. But at our size, I'm, I'm not. And our fill rates, as you recall, suck. It takes forever for us to finish anything. And there's something about just literally putting on your podcast, going in my spare bedroom at home 'cause my son's off at college, so the second his ass was out of there it was like, "Leather studio."
(laughs)
And I totally built that sucker out with really good audio and lighting and stuff. So, being able to come from sketch to a finished good within a matter of weeks 100% myself, independent of everything, I needed that. I wa- I really kind of felt I was losing that t- tactile craft connection at work.
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