JRE MMA Show #39 with Donald "Cowboy" Cerrone
Donald "Cowboy" Cerrone (guest), Joe Rogan (host), Narrator, Narrator, Narrator
In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, featuring Donald "Cowboy" Cerrone and Joe Rogan, JRE MMA Show #39 with Donald "Cowboy" Cerrone explores cowboy Cerrone Exposes Gym Politics, Near-Death Dive, and Wild Life Donald “Cowboy” Cerrone joins Joe Rogan to unpack his public split from the Jackson-Wink MMA gym, describing how money, loyalty, and internal mismanagement led to a profound falling out before his Mike Perry fight.
Cowboy Cerrone Exposes Gym Politics, Near-Death Dive, and Wild Life
Donald “Cowboy” Cerrone joins Joe Rogan to unpack his public split from the Jackson-Wink MMA gym, describing how money, loyalty, and internal mismanagement led to a profound falling out before his Mike Perry fight.
He details what he sees as the decline of one of MMA’s top teams into a “puppy mill,” why he built his own BMF Ranch facility, and how he struggles balancing being both fighter and self-coach.
Cerrone also recounts a terrifying, almost fatal cave-diving incident, his first DMT experience, and his addiction to high-risk adrenaline pursuits like skydiving, racing, and mounted shooting.
Throughout, they riff on parenting, toughness, psychedelics, hunting ethics, flat-earth conspiracies, sexuality, and the limits of acceptable language in today’s culture.
Key Takeaways
Loyalty clashes with money in high-level MMA gyms.
Cerrone feels betrayed that Jackson-Wink chose to corner newcomer Mike Perry against him, arguing that Winkeljohn prioritized a paying client over a decade-plus of loyalty and confidential fighter knowledge.
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Gym culture and quality control can make or break fighter development.
He criticizes Jackson-Wink for letting almost anyone train and even coach, turning what was once an elite, tightly controlled room into a chaotic environment where unknowns can injure pros and real instruction suffers.
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Elite fighters still need a ‘general,’ not just talent and facilities.
Running his own BMF Ranch forced Cerrone to be both fighter and program director; he stresses how much high-level athletes need objective coaches to set structure, throttle training, and make hard decisions for them.
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Staying calm in chaos is a literal survival skill.
His cave-diving story—getting lost in total blackout silt and nearly running out of air—shows how panic compounds danger; methodical breathing, self-talk, and tracking time/air are what ultimately got him out alive.
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Psychedelics can reframe fear and priorities for high-risk performers.
Cerrone’s DMT trip made his injuries glow on an ‘out-of-body’ version of himself and allowed him to question his fears and motives, opening the door to mushrooms and a different way of evaluating risk and life.
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Adrenaline and risk are central to Cerrone’s identity and happiness.
From skydiving and cave diving to dirt-track car racing and mounted shooting, he leans into activities most people find terrifying, and he views living fully now—while he’s young and capable—as more important than playing it safe.
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Fighters are building post-career paths through promotion and media.
Cerrone is launching an amateur ‘Cowboy Fight Series’ to discover prospects and bring winners to his ranch, and he’s moving into movie stunts/acting and even dirt racing, planning for life beyond active UFC competition.
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Notable Quotes
““It’s turned into like a puppy mill. It’s all about money now and not the old Jackson.””
— Donald Cerrone
““The relationship between a coach and a fighter is very intimate… for someone to violate that in that way?””
— Joe Rogan
““I’m supposed to be just a soldier. How come I have to be the general and the soldier?””
— Donald Cerrone
““Panic kills everybody involved.””
— Donald Cerrone
““I’m gonna fight till I don’t love it anymore.””
— Donald Cerrone
Questions Answered in This Episode
How common is the kind of loyalty-versus-money conflict Cerrone describes at Jackson-Wink across other top MMA camps?
Donald “Cowboy” Cerrone joins Joe Rogan to unpack his public split from the Jackson-Wink MMA gym, describing how money, loyalty, and internal mismanagement led to a profound falling out before his Mike Perry fight.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
What structural safeguards could gyms implement to prevent ‘puppy mill’ dynamics while still staying financially viable?
He details what he sees as the decline of one of MMA’s top teams into a “puppy mill,” why he built his own BMF Ranch facility, and how he struggles balancing being both fighter and self-coach.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
How does nearly dying in a cave or on extreme adventures actually change the way a fighter approaches risk inside the cage?
Cerrone also recounts a terrifying, almost fatal cave-diving incident, his first DMT experience, and his addiction to high-risk adrenaline pursuits like skydiving, racing, and mounted shooting.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Could psychedelics like DMT or psilocybin be responsibly integrated into athlete mental health and performance programs?
Throughout, they riff on parenting, toughness, psychedelics, hunting ethics, flat-earth conspiracies, sexuality, and the limits of acceptable language in today’s culture.
Get the full analysis with uListen AI
Where should the line be drawn between protecting people from hateful language and over-policing words in a way that stifles honest expression, especially from fighters?
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Transcript Preview
(glass clinks) Yes, sir. (ice cubes clinking)
Cheers.
Cheers. (glasses clink)
And we're live.
And we're live. There's so much to talk about.
Obviously. So much to talk about.
It's been years.
It's been a while. It's been a while.
It's been a while.
And, uh, one of the reasons why you're here is 'cause I was supposed to have Jackson Win- I mean, we should just get right into this. I was supposed to-
You think we should get into it or should we-
Yeah.
... let the...
Let the Budweiser settle in?
Let the Budweiser kick. I haven't even eaten breakfast. I specif-
(laughs)
...cally didn't eat breakfast. I'm like, "I'm gonna drink beer with Joe. I already know he's getting me beer, and that way it can hit me a lot faster and I'll loosen up my lips a lot sooner."
We can do whatever you want, man.
(laughs)
It's up to you. You're looking thick, dude. How much do you weigh now?
Man, so I've been, um... So here's a crazy story. I go to, I go to, um, the PI to... 'Cause Dana tells me I can't go to 55, so I go to talk to the PI-
He told you you can't go? Why?
Well, 'cause he says I'm, I'm getting old and older. Well, I should say he said old. I'm getting old. And he's worried-
The weight cut's too hard.
... the weight cut, right? So I said, "All right. I'm gonna go to the, to the PI. You guys have this amazing facility with..."
The PI stands for Performance Institute, if people don't know.
Yeah. For some... There you go.
UFC Performance Institute.
And, uh, they have trainers and dietician, nutrition, right? So I'm, I'm going there to meet with them to get a, a guideline and some kind of plan that we can attack so I can go to Dana, like, "Look, I met with your guys. They said it's okay." While I'm there, second day into all this, like, crazy testing you do, right? They have all kinds of tests that they run where you get on these bikes and... I mean, like, fuck, I was at like a Olympic training center (laughs) testing. Um, uh, I wanted to say Joe Silva walked in, but then that's not right 'cause he's not there anymore. So, uh...
Nick Maynard?
No. Um-
Sean Shepard?
... Shelby comes in and says, "Cowboy, uh, Mike Perry really wants to fight you. You wanna take this fight?" And I was like, "Uh, well, I thought I was going to 55." And he said, "Yeah, he called you out and really wants to fight you." And I was like, "Well, fuck, okay, I'll fight him. Sure. Done. That's fine. But next one, can I go to 55?" You know? Like, goddamn. So the... how this Perry thing all started was, um, Felder's opponent got hurt. Um, I called to fight Gaethje 'cause, 'cause Vick got hurt. So I was like, "I'll go to 55, fight Gaethje." Um, and then crazy shit just happened. And then the Perry fight, they offered me and I called Perry, said, "Hey, man, I know we're training together, but this is 10 days notice. Let's do this." He's like, "Fuck yeah, man. It'd be great. Let's do this." So that's how that started and then w-... I didn't get to fight. That was the end of it for me. I went to UFC to go back to 155, then all of a sudden he's calling me out and-
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