Joe Rogan Experience #1226 - Mike Baker
Joe Rogan (host), Mike Baker (guest), Guest (guest), Guest (guest), Narrator, Narrator
In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, featuring Joe Rogan and Mike Baker, Joe Rogan Experience #1226 - Mike Baker explores ex-CIA officer unpacks black budgets, covert wars, and modern geopolitics Joe Rogan and former CIA officer Mike Baker discuss Baker’s upcoming TV series “Black Files,” which explores hidden U.S. defense and intelligence budgets, secret programs, and historical black operations. They move into a wide-ranging conversation on secrecy, leaks, and the culture of special operations, including the ethics of operators writing books and revealing missions. The discussion then shifts to contemporary geopolitics: Syria, ISIS, the Kurds, Russia, China, Huawei, cyber-espionage, and space warfare, as well as Trump’s presidency, media dysfunction, and the government shutdown. They close by touching on domestic issues like student debt, universal basic income, surveillance capitalism, and classic conspiracy cases like JFK and MLK.
Ex-CIA officer unpacks black budgets, covert wars, and modern geopolitics
Joe Rogan and former CIA officer Mike Baker discuss Baker’s upcoming TV series “Black Files,” which explores hidden U.S. defense and intelligence budgets, secret programs, and historical black operations. They move into a wide-ranging conversation on secrecy, leaks, and the culture of special operations, including the ethics of operators writing books and revealing missions. The discussion then shifts to contemporary geopolitics: Syria, ISIS, the Kurds, Russia, China, Huawei, cyber-espionage, and space warfare, as well as Trump’s presidency, media dysfunction, and the government shutdown. They close by touching on domestic issues like student debt, universal basic income, surveillance capitalism, and classic conspiracy cases like JFK and MLK.
Key Takeaways
Hidden intelligence and defense budgets fund both historic and cutting-edge programs.
Baker explains that agencies like the CIA are funded through classified lines buried inside the Defense Department budget, financing everything from the U‑2 program to current tech and intelligence operations that rarely see public scrutiny.
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Secrecy culture in special operations is eroding under media and political pressures.
He argues that when senior officials publish memoirs revealing sensitive history, it implicitly encourages lower-level operators and SEALs to write tell-all books, weakening the traditional ‘silent professional’ ethos and risking sources and methods.
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Pulling U.S. forces from Syria risks abandoning Kurdish allies and empowering adversaries.
Baker is ambivalent about endless deployments but stresses that a rapid withdrawal would leave Kurdish partners exposed to Turkish attack and likely allow ISIS to morph and reconstitute, repeating post-Iraq mistakes.
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China’s long-term strategy centers on information dominance, not just trade advantage.
He frames Huawei and Chinese cyber-espionage as deliberate tools in a state strategy to control information infrastructure globally, including embedding telecom hardware in NATO allies’ systems to gain access to Western communications.
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Cyber and space domains are becoming decisive fronts in future conflict.
Baker notes that anti-satellite and cyber capabilities can blind or cripple an opponent’s communications and surveillance, making initiatives like a ‘Space Force’ less absurd when viewed in the context of Chinese and Russian investments in these areas.
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Big tech’s data harvesting poses a more pervasive privacy threat than government spying.
He points out that companies like Amazon, Google, mobile carriers, and ad networks track location, conversations (via always-on assistants), and behavior at scale, with the public more outraged by NSA headlines than by corporate surveillance that directly monetizes them.
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Structural issues like student debt and weak public schools feed long-term instability.
They highlight the massive U. ...
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Notable Quotes
“You sign a piece of paper at the very beginning that says you’re being given the responsibility of handling extremely sensitive information… and your obligation is to shut your mouth.”
— Mike Baker
“I have no idea why any president ever thinks it’s a good idea to say, ‘We’ve defeated the enemy’ when we’re talking about radical Islam. Shut the fuck up. Stop saying things like that.”
— Mike Baker
“China has a policy: information domination. They’ve determined the next modern, large-scale war is going to be won by whoever has control over information.”
— Mike Baker
“We seem to be willing to give up a surprising amount of privacy… as long as we don’t think the government’s doing it.”
— Mike Baker
“We’re living in a very unique country… there is no other place I would rather be as a country.”
— Mike Baker
Questions Answered in This Episode
How much transparency about black-budget programs is realistically compatible with national security, and where should that line be drawn?
Joe Rogan and former CIA officer Mike Baker discuss Baker’s upcoming TV series “Black Files,” which explores hidden U. ...
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Given the risks Baker outlines, what would a responsible U.S. withdrawal from Syria actually look like in terms of timing and guarantees to Kurdish allies?
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How should democratic societies regulate or counter foreign companies like Huawei that are deeply integrated into critical infrastructure without crippling global trade?
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Is there a workable model where universal basic income reduces poverty and crime without significantly undermining personal motivation and responsibility?
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What additional evidence would be needed to resolve lingering doubts about the JFK and MLK assassinations, and is full historical clarity even achievable at this point?
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Transcript Preview
Four, three, two, one. (hands clap) Mr. Baker, how are you?
Mr. Rogan, I'm doing well. Thanks very much. (laughs)
Fine. What's going on, man? What are you doing in town?
Uh, just, uh, was in town doing, uh, some, uh, work on a sizzle reel for a show, uh, a new show.
Can you talk about that?
Can we talk about that?
Can you tell people what it is?
Well, there's actually two of them. Uh, one I can talk about. I can tease it a little bit. Um, the marketing department, I guess, has to approve everything that's said. Um, it started out, it's going to be on the Discovery Network, I think a science channel. And it, uh, we're starting the main filming in February, and we should be finished by the end of March. So, you know, stand by. But it started with a discussion about, um, hidden budgets in the Defense Department.
Like dark art stuff?
Yeah. It's going to ... The show's going to be called Black Files.
Oh.
Uh, and ...
Like UFO-type shit?
Well, there's going to be some of that, uh, some. But, but from a, you know, not from a, you know, you know, did they li- land, did they not? It's, it's ... We're really actually kind of tearing into, um, some of the programs that were funded by, you know, hidden money, uh, in the Defense Department. And-
Now, how do they do that?
Well, (sighs) I mean, if you take like the CIA, for example. Uh, the agency's budget is hidden inside. It's not hidden, but it's placed inside the Defense Department, and it's, and it's a classified piece of information, obviously, 'cause, uh, a lot of, you know ...
So the Defense Department gets a certain budget. The CIA gets a piece of that, but nobody's-
Gets a piece of that.
... allowed to know how much-
Right.
... or where it's spent.
Right. 'Cause obviously, you know, the Russians, the Chinese, whomever would like to know, you know, how much money is, uh, sent over (laughs) to the agency so that they can get a sense of size, resources, capabilities.
Right.
That sort of thing. Um, so, eh, that's where the, the show concept started. You know, what-
Mm-hmm.
What is that money spent on? Eh, both in the old days and, and now, so it's like, it's, it kind of spans, you know, historical operations and events and activities and special units, and it comes up to the present time and says, you know, where is, you know, money being devoted now for new technology or new programs, new operations, new intelligence-gathering efforts, whatever it might be. So it's, yeah, I think it's, it's got a lot of promise. You know, hopefully people tune in and find it interesting. (laughs) Uh ...
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