Joe Rogan Experience #1923 - Mike Baker
Narrator, Narrator, Joe Rogan (host), Mike Baker (guest), Narrator, Narrator, Narrator
In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, featuring Narrator and Narrator, Joe Rogan Experience #1923 - Mike Baker explores ex-CIA Operative Dissects China, Crypto, Classified Docs, And Deep State Joe Rogan and former CIA officer Mike Baker range across geopolitics, intelligence, and domestic policy, starting with crypto collapses like FTX and how basic due diligence could have exposed them. They dive into U.S. tax policy and the IRS expansion, Biden’s classified documents and Chinese-linked funding of think tanks, and why Baker sees China—not Russia—as the long-term strategic threat, including TikTok data collection and industrial espionage. The conversation covers the Russia‑Ukraine war, Iran’s nuclear ambitions, and the risks of escalation, then shifts to the “deep state,” CIA oversight, and Tucker Carlson’s claim that the agency killed JFK, which Baker treats skeptically. They close on culture and work-life issues—pandemic policy, remote work, religion, parenting—and Baker’s new audiobook on how CIA lessons apply to building a business.
Ex-CIA Operative Dissects China, Crypto, Classified Docs, And Deep State
Joe Rogan and former CIA officer Mike Baker range across geopolitics, intelligence, and domestic policy, starting with crypto collapses like FTX and how basic due diligence could have exposed them. They dive into U.S. tax policy and the IRS expansion, Biden’s classified documents and Chinese-linked funding of think tanks, and why Baker sees China—not Russia—as the long-term strategic threat, including TikTok data collection and industrial espionage. The conversation covers the Russia‑Ukraine war, Iran’s nuclear ambitions, and the risks of escalation, then shifts to the “deep state,” CIA oversight, and Tucker Carlson’s claim that the agency killed JFK, which Baker treats skeptically. They close on culture and work-life issues—pandemic policy, remote work, religion, parenting—and Baker’s new audiobook on how CIA lessons apply to building a business.
Key Takeaways
Basic due diligence can prevent massive fraud losses, even in complex sectors like crypto.
Baker argues that early, disciplined investigation of founders, governance, accounting practices (e. ...
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The IRS hiring surge is likely to hit small and medium businesses more than billionaires.
He contends that 87,000 additional IRS agents cannot realistically focus only on ultra-wealthy audits; in practice, they will target smaller enterprises where audits are easier and more numerous, effectively a revenue land grab.
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Foreign funding of U.S. think tanks can quietly shape policy and narrative.
Using the Penn Biden Center’s reported $54 million in Chinese-linked and anonymous donations as an example, Baker suggests an investigative look at top think tanks’ donors versus the policies they promote to understand influence operations.
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China’s strategy is long-term data and tech dominance, not just short-term spying.
From TikTok’s permissive data policies to Huawei and rare earth control, Baker says China indiscriminately “hoovers up” data and IP—some of which may have no current use but could be weaponized decades later for economic or security leverage.
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The U.S. needs intelligence agencies but must guard against political capture.
Baker defends the CIA’s core mission—understanding adversaries’ plans and intentions in a non-benign world—while warning that problems arise when senior figures get too close to politics; he insists career officers are largely apolitical but oversight and skepticism are essential.
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Major conflicts like Ukraine, Iran, and potential China-Taiwan crises lack clear Western endgames.
He notes huge U. ...
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Work culture is being reshaped by remote work expectations and generational attitudes.
Post-pandemic, employees push for hybrid or fully remote arrangements and generous parental leave, while employers struggle with productivity, office underuse, and entitlement; Baker predicts a soft reversal as economic conditions tighten and job leverage shifts back to companies.
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Notable Quotes
““Decentralized is not the same as unregulated.””
— Mike Baker (on crypto and the need for some oversight)
““China’s the bigger issue in the long term. We just need to be able to multitask.””
— Mike Baker (comparing China to Russia amid focus on Ukraine)
““If you actually think there’s a firewall there, then it’s incredibly ignorant or naive, or both.””
— Mike Baker (on the idea that TikTok data is walled off from the Chinese government)
““It’s not a benign world. If we want to fly blind, then I guess, yeah, you could get rid of the agency.””
— Mike Baker (defending the need for the CIA)
““I think the thing people are weirded out by when it comes to intelligence agencies… is that they kind of act autonomously.””
— Joe Rogan (on public fear of a ‘deep state’)
Questions Answered in This Episode
How should democratic societies balance civil liberties with the kind of aggressive counterintelligence posture Baker argues is necessary against China?
Joe Rogan and former CIA officer Mike Baker range across geopolitics, intelligence, and domestic policy, starting with crypto collapses like FTX and how basic due diligence could have exposed them. ...
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What specific transparency and oversight mechanisms would meaningfully reduce ‘deep state’ concerns without crippling intelligence capabilities?
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If half of all crypto trading volume is potentially wash trading, what does a sane, investor-safe regulatory framework look like without killing innovation?
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To what extent are foreign-funded think tanks and university programs already shaping U.S. policy toward China, and how could that influence be made visible to the public?
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What realistic endgame scenarios exist for the Russia–Ukraine war, and which ones the U.S. and NATO are actually planning around, if any?
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Transcript Preview
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Speak up for horseshit, Jamie. You're just gonna let them ban bullshit? That could be a problem for bullshit.
Well, some bullshit's fun.
I think you abdicated your responsibility.
Some bullshit's fun and should just be, that's the bullshit you like.
Yes, some bullshit is fun.
Like wrestling or whatever.
(laughs) Yes. But wrestling doesn't cost people billions and billions of dollars when it doesn't go right.
Well...
Do you think that, that fucking guy who crashed, uh, FTX, the Binance guy, do you think he had any idea that he was gonna crash his business too?
Oh.
'Cause-
Kinda like collateral damage? I mean-
Yeah, well he's, they're going under. He's lost like $15 billion over the last few days.
Yeah, I, probab- I would say no, he didn't see it coming. No.
But fucking duh.
(laughs)
(laughs)
Fucking duh. You just, you, you basically showed everybody how vulnerable this money on a c- hard drive is. This like, weird-
I'm mining. I'm mining for coin.
Are you? You're mining?
No, no, no, no. I'm just kidding.
Wonderful idea.
I know. It's so profitable to mine.
(laughs)
It was either that or cobalt, and crypto seemed easier.
So Jamie, you were saying that people were mad... First of all, they were mad at Peter Zion, for-
Mostly that.
... yeah, for saying what seems to be the case, is that a lot of crypto is just horseshit.
Well, the one comment he made that I think that just, I would go against too is that it has no intrinsic value, 'cause it seems that like, a lot of things have no intrinsic value.
Right.
So...
Well, it doesn't have a value unless we agree it has a value, and you can buy a lot of stuff with cry- I mean, Antonopoulos, doesn't he buy everything? Like, pays his rent, everything with Bitcoin?
There's tons, yeah, tons of stuff you could do with it, tons of stuff going on with it. It has uses.
Yeah.
I don't know if they're all the uses everyone thought they'd be by now, or what's going on with it, 'cause there's obviously a lot of confusion.
But then people are mad at you.
Well, just 'cause I, I, he had to leave. We had, you know, he had a flight to catch.
Right. So, they were mad that you didn't grill him about-
Right, so just let him speak.
... you know, stand up for bullshit.
Let him speak, like on, on a, whatever.
No, I thought they were mad 'cause you invented crypto.
Oh.
I didn't know, I wasn't sure where this was going.
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