Elon Musk: War, AI, Aliens, Politics, Physics, Video Games, and Humanity | Lex Fridman Podcast #400

The following is a conversation with Elon Musk, his fourth time on this, the Lex Fridman Podcast.

(whistling)

(laughs)

(whistling)

I thought you were gonna finish it.

(whistling)

It's one of the greatest themes in all of film history.

(whistling) Yeah, it's great.

So, I was just thinking about the Roman Empire, as one does.

(laughs) There's that whole meme, uh, where (laughs) old guys are, are thinking-

Yeah.

... about the Roman Empire at least once a day.

Yeah. And half the population is confused whether it's true or not. But more seriously, thinking about the wars going on in the world today, and as you know, uh, war and military conquest has been a big part of, uh, Roman society and culture. And it, I think, has been a big part of most empires and dynasties throughout human history. So...

Yeah. They usually, uh, came as a result of conquest. I mean, there's some, like the Austria-Hungarian Empire, where there was just a lot of, uh, sort of clever marriages. Um...

But fundamentally, there's an engine of conquest.

Yeah. Almost always.

And they celebrate excellence in warfare. Many of the leaders were excellent generals.

Yeah.

That kind of thing. So, big-picture question, grok-approved. I ask if this is a good question to ask, and-

Kid-tested, grok-approved?

Yeah. (laughs) Uh, at least on fun mode.

(laughs)

Uh, (laughs) uh,

(laughs)

...to what degree do you think war is part of human nature versus a consequence of, uh, how human societies are structured? I ask this as you have somehow controversially been a proponent of peace.

I'm, uh, generally a proponent of peace. I mean, ignorance is perhaps, in my view, the real enemy to be countered. That's the real hard part. Not, you know, fighting other humans. Um, but a- all creatures fight. I mean, the, the, the jungle is a... You look at the j-... People think of, of this nature as perhaps some sort of peaceful thing, but in fact, it is not. There's some quite funny Werner H- Werner Herz- Herzog thing, where he's, like, in the jungle, like, saying that it's, like, basically just murder and death in every direction.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, the, the, the plants and animals in the jungle are constantly trying to kill and eat each other, every single day, every minute. So it's not like, uh, you know, we're unusual in that respect.

Well, there's, there's a relevant question here, whether with greater intelligence, uh, comes greater control over these base instincts for violence.

Yes. We have much more of an ability to control our, our, um, Olympic instinct for violence than, say, a chimpanzee. And in fact, if, if one looks at, say, chimpanzee society, it is not friendly. I mean, the, bonobos are an exception. Um, but chimpanzee society is, uh, filled with violence, and it's quite, quite horrific, frankly. But that's, that's our limbic system in action. Like, you don't want to be on the wrong side of a chimpanzee. He'll eat your face off and tear your nuts off.