Jeremi Suri: History of American Power | Lex Fridman Podcast #180

The following is a conversation with Jeremy Surrey, a historian at UT Austin, whose research interests and writing are on modern American history, with an eye towards presidents and in general, individuals who wielded power. Quick mention of our sponsors: LMNT, Munk Pack, Belcampo, Four Sigmatic, and Eight Sleep. Check them out in the description to support this podcast. As a side note, let me say that in these conversations, for better or worse, I seek understanding, not activism. I'm not left nor right. I love ideas, not labels, and most fascinating ideas are full of uncertainty, tension, and trade-offs. Labels destroy that. I try ideas out, let them breathe for a time, try to challenge, explore, and analyze, but mostly I trust the intelligence of you, the listener, to think and to make up your own mind together with me. I will try to have economists and philosophers on from all points on the multi-dimensional political spectrum, including the extremes. I will try to both have an open mind and to ask difficult questions when needed. I'll make mistakes. Don't shoot this robot at the first sign of failure. I'm still under development, pre-release version 0.1. This is the Lex Fridman Podcast, and here is my conversation with Jeremy Surrey. You've studied many American presidents throughout history, so, uh, who do you think was the greatest president in American history?

The greatest American president was Abraham Lincoln, and, uh, Tolstoy reflected on this himself actually, uh, saying that, uh, when he was in the Caucuses, he asked these, um, peasants in the Caucuses who was the greatest man in the world that they had heard of, and they said Abraham Lincoln. And why? Well, because he gave voice to people who had no voice before. He turned politics into an art. This is what Tolstoy recounted the peasants in the Caucuses telling him. Uh, Lincoln made politics more than about power. He made it an art. He made it a, a source of liberation, and those living even far from the United States could see that, uh, model, that inspiration, uh, from Lincoln. Uh, he was a man, uh, who had two years of education, yet he mastered the English language and he used the language, uh, to help people imagine a different kind of world. Y- you see leaders and presidents are at their best when they're doing more than just manipulating institutions and power, when they're helping the people imagine a better world, and, and he did that as no other president has.

And you say he gave... he gave voice to those who are voiceless. Um, who are you talking to, uh, a- about in general? Is this about African Americans or is this about just the populous in general?

Certainly part of it is about, uh, slaves, uh, African Americans, and many immigrants, uh, immigrants from all parts of Europe and other areas that have come to the United States, but part of it was just for ordinary American citizens. The Republican Party, for which Lincoln was the first president, was a party created to give voice to, uh, poor White men, as well as, uh, slaves and others, and Lincoln was a poor White man himself. Uh, grew up without slaves and without land, which meant you had almost nothing.