Daniel Kahneman: Thinking Fast and Slow, Deep Learning, and AI | Lex Fridman Podcast #65

The following is a conversation with Daniel Kahneman, winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics for his integration of economic science with the psychology of human behavior, judgment, and decision-making. He's the author of the popular book, Thinking, Fast and Slow, that summarizes in an accessible way his research of several decades, often in collaboration with Amos Tversky...... and what, what people can do.

So, the effect of the in group and the out group?

You know, the- it's clear that those were people, you know, you could- you could shoot them. You could- you know, they were not human. They were not- there was no empathy or very, very little empathy left. So occasionally, you know, they might have been- and, and very quickly, by the way, uh, the empathy disappeared if there was initially. And the fact that everybody around you was doing it, that, that completely- the group doing it and everybody shooting Jews, I think that, that, uh, makes it permissible. Now, how much, you know, whether it would- it could happen, uh, in every culture or whether the Germans were just particularly efficient and, and disciplined so they could get away with it.

Mm-hmm.

That's-

It's a question.

It's an interesting question.

Are these artifacts of history or is it human nature?

I think that's really human nature. You know, you put some people in a position of power relative to other people and, and then they become less human. They- they become different.

But in general, in war, outside of concentration camps in World War II, it seems that war brings out darker sides of human nature, but also the beautiful things about human nature.

Well, you know, I mean, what it- what it brings out is the, the loyalty among soldiers. I mean, it brings out the bonding. Male bonding, I think, is a very real thing that- and that happens. And so- and, and there is a certain thrill to friendship and there is certainly a certain thrill to friendship under risk-

Yeah.

... and to shared risk. And so people have very profound emotions up to the point where it gets so traumatic that, uh, that little is left, but-

So, let's talk about psychology a little bit. Uh, in your book, Thinking, Fast and Slow, you describe two modes of thought system. One, the fast, instinctive and emotional one, and system two, the slower, deliberate, logical one. At the risk of asking Darwin to discuss (laughs) , uh, theory of evolution, uh, can you describe distinguishing characteristics for people who have not read your book of the two systems?

Well, I mean, the word system is a bit misleading, but it's- at the same time it's misleading, it's also very useful.

Yes.

But what I call system one, it's easier to think of it as, as a family of activities. And primarily the way I describe it is there are different ways for ideas to come to mind, and some ideas come to mind automatically. And the example- a standard example is two plus two, and then something happens to you. And, and in other cases you've got to do something, you've got to work in order to produce the idea. And my example, I always give the same pair of numbers as 27 times 14, I think.