Simon Sinek: Leadership, Hard Work, Optimism and the Infinite Game | Lex Fridman Podcast #82

The following is a conversation with Simon Sinek, author of several books, including Start With Why, Leaders Eat Last, and his latest, The Infinite Game. He's one of the best communicators of what it takes to be a good leader, to inspire, to build businesses that solve big, difficult challenges. This is the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. If you enjoy it, subscribe on YouTube, review it with five stars on Apple Podcasts, support it on Patreon, or simply connect with me on Twitter @LexFridman, spelled F-R-I-D-M-A-N. As usual, I'll do one or two minutes of ads now, and never any ads in the middle that can break the flow of the conversation. I hope that works for you and doesn't hurt the listening experience. Quick summary of the ads. Two sponsors: Cash App and MasterClass. Please consider supporting the podcast by downloading Cash App and using code LEXPODCAST and signing up to MasterClass at masterclass.com/lex. This show is presented by Cash App, the number one finance app in the App Store. When you get it, use code LEXPODCAST. Cash App lets you send money to friends, buy Bitcoin, and invest in the stock market with as little as $1. Since Cash App allows you to buy Bitcoin, let me mention that cryptocurrency in the context of the history of money is fascinating. I recommend A Cent of Money as a great book on this history. Debits and credits on ledgers started around 30,000 years ago, the U.S. dollar, created over 200 years ago, and Bitcoin, the first decentralized cryptocurrency, released just over 10 years ago. So given that history, cryptocurrency still very much in its early days of development, but is still aiming to, and just might, redefine the nature of money. So again, you get Cash App from the App Store or Google Play and use the code LEXPODCAST, you get $10 and Cash App will also donate $10 to FIRST, an organization that is helping to advance robotics and STEM education for young people around the world. This show is sponsored by MasterClass. Sign up at masterclass.com/lex to get a discount and to support this podcast. When I first heard about MasterClass, I honestly thought it was too good to be true. For $180 a year, you get an all-access pass to watch courses from experts at the top of their field. To list some of my favorites: Chris Hadfield on space exploration; Neil deGrasse Tyson on scientific thinking and communication; Will Wright, the creator of SimCity and Sims, on game design, I love that game; (laughs) Jane Goodall on conservation; Carlos Santana, one of my favorite guitarists, on guitar; Garry Kasparov on chess. Obviously, I'm Russian, I love Garry. (laughs) Daniel Negreanu on poker, one of my favorite poker players. Also Phil Ivey is, uh, gives a course as well, and many, many more. Chris Hadfield explaining how rockets work and the experience of being launched into space alone is worth the money. By way of advice from me, the key is not to be overwhelmed by the abundance of choice. Pick three courses you want to complete, watch each all the way through from start to finish. It's not that long, but it's an experience that will stick with you for a long time, I promise. It's easily worth the money. You can watch it on basically any device. Once again, sign up at masterclass.com/lex to get a discount and to support this podcast. And now here's my conversation with Simon Sinek. In The Infinite Game, your most recent book, you describe the finite game and the infinite game. So from my perspective o- of artificial intelligence and, uh, game theory in general, I'm a huge fan of. Finite games, from the broad philosophical sense, is something that, in the robotics, artificial intelligence space, we know how to deal with. And then you describe the infinite game, which has no exact static rules, has no well-defined static objective, has n- the, the players are known, unknown, they change, there's a dynamic element. So this is something that applies to business, politics, life itself. So can you try to articulate the objective function here of the infinite game, or in the, in the cliche broad philosophical sense, what is the meaning of life?