Walter Isaacson: Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Einstein, Da Vinci & Ben Franklin | Lex Fridman Podcast #395

I hope with my books I'm saying, uh, "This isn't a how-to guide, but this is somebody you can walk alongside."

Mm-hmm.

You can see Einstein growing up Jewish in Germany. You can see Jennifer Doudna growing up or... as an outsider, or Leonardo da Vinci or Elon Musk, you know, in really violent South Africa with a psychologically difficult father, and getting off the train when he goes to an anti-apartheid concert with his brother, and there's a, a man with a knife sticking out of his head, and they step into the pool of blood and it's sticky on their soles. This causes, you know, scars that last the rest of your life, and the question is not how do you avoid getting scarred, it's, you know, how do you deal with it?

(wind blowing) The following is a conversation with Walter Isaacson, one of the greatest biography writers ever, having written incredible books on Albert Einstein, Steve Jobs, Leonardo da Vinci, Jennifer Doudna, Benjamin Franklin, Henry Kissinger, and now a new one on Elon Musk. We talked for hours on and off the mic. I'm sure we'll talk many more times. Walter is a truly special writer, thinker, observer, and human being. I highly recommend people read his new book on Elon. I'm sure there will be short-term controversy, but in the long term, I think it will inspire millions of young people, especially with difficult childhoods, with hardship in their surroundings or in their own minds, to take on the hardest problems in the world and to build solutions to those problems, no matter how impossible the odds. In this conversation, Walter and I cover all of his books and use personal stories from them to speak to the bigger principles of striving for greatness in science, in tech, engineering, art, politics, and life. There are many things in the new Elon book that I felt are best saved for when I speak to Elon directly again on this podcast, which will be soon enough. Perhaps it's also good to mention here that my friendships, like with Elon, nor any other influence like money, access, fame, power, will ever result in me sacrificing my integrity, ever. I do like to celebrate the good in people, to empathize and to understand, but I also like to call people out on their bullshit, with respect and with compassion. If I fail, I fail due to a lack of skill, not a lack of integrity. I'll work hard to improve. This is the Lex Fridman Podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Walter Isaacson. What is the role of a difficult childhood in the lives of great men and women, great minds? Is it a requirement, is it a catalyst, or is it just a simple coincidence of fate?

Well, it's not a requirement. Some people with happy childhoods who do quite well. But it certainly is true that a lot of really driven people are driven because they're harnessing the demons of their childhood. Even Barack Obama's, uh, sentence in his memoirs, which is, I think every successful man is either trying to live up to the expectations of fa- of his father or live down the sins of his father. And for Elon, it's especially true 'cause he had both a violent and difficult childhood, and a very psychologically problematic father. He's got those demons, uh, dancing around in his head, and by harnessing them, it's part of the reason that he does riskier, more adventurous, wilder things than maybe I would ever do.