Steven Pinker: AI in the Age of Reason | Lex Fridman Podcast #3

You've studied the human mind, cognition, language, vision, evolution, psychology from child to adult, from the level of individual to the level of our entire civilization, so I feel like I can start with a simple multiple-choice question. What is the meaning of life? Is it, A, to obtain knowledge, as Plato said? B, to obtain power, as Nietzsche said? C, to escape death, as Ernest Becker said?

(laughs)

D, to propagate our genes, as Darwin and others have said? E, there is no meaning, as the nihilists have said? F, knowing the meaning of life is beyond our cognitive capabilities, as Steven Pinker said, based on my interpretation 20 years ago? And G, none of the above?

Uh, I'd say A comes closest, but I would amend that to attaining not only knowledge but, uh, fulfillment more generally. That is, life, health, stimulation, uh, (clears throat) access to the, uh, living, cultural, and social world. Now, this is our meaning of life. It's not the meaning of life, uh, if you were to ask our genes. Uh, the, their meaning, uh, is to, uh, propagate copies of themselves, but that is distinct from the meaning that the brain that they, uh, lead to sets for itself.

So to you, knowledge is a small subset or a large subset of-

It's a large subset, but it's not the entirety of human striving because, uh, we also want to, um, interact with people. We wanna experience beauty. We wanna experience the, the richness of the natural world. Uh, but, uh, understanding the, what makes the universe, uh, tick is, uh, is, is way up there, for some of us more than others. Uh, certainly for me, that's, uh, the, the, that's one of the top five.

So is that a fundamental aspect? Are you just describing your own preference? Or is this a fundamental aspect of human nature is to seek knowledge to s- to, uh... In your latest book, you talk about the, the, the power, the usefulness of rationality and reason and so on. Is that a fundamental nature of, of human beings? Or is it something we should just strive for?

Uh, it both. It is, we're, we're, uh, capable of striving for it because it is one of the things that make us what we are, homo sapiens-

Mm-hmm.

... uh, w- wise man. Uh, we are unusual among, uh, animals in the degree to which we acquire knowledge and, and use it to survive. We, we make tools. We strike agreements, uh, via language. We, um, extract poisons. We predict the behavior of animals. We, uh, try to get at the workings of plants. And when I say "we," I don't just mean we in the modern West, but we as a species everywhere, which is how we've managed to, uh, occupy every niche on the planet, how we've managed to drive other animals to, to extinction. And the refinement of reason in pursuit of human well-being, of, uh, health, happiness, social richness, cultural richness is our, uh, our, our main challenge in the present. That is, uh, using our intellect, using our knowledge to figure out how the world works, how we work in order to make discoveries and strike agreements that make us all better off in the long run.