
The Simple Tool That Will Transform Your Family Dynamic
Mel Robbins (host), Guest (guest)
In this episode of The Mel Robbins Podcast, featuring Mel Robbins and Guest, The Simple Tool That Will Transform Your Family Dynamic explores transform Family Tension Using Mel Robbins’ Powerful ‘Let Them’ Tool Mel Robbins explains how to radically improve family dynamics by shifting focus from controlling relatives to managing your own reactions and intentions. She introduces the “Let Them / Let Me” framework: accepting that family members won’t change (“let them”) while taking full responsibility for how you show up (“let me”). Using the metaphor of an interconnected spiderweb, she shows how one person’s behavioral shift can send calming ripples through the entire family system. Robbins also addresses challenging situations—political conflict, stepfamilies, estrangement, and aging parents—emphasizing compassion, frame of reference, and the urgency of limited time together.
Transform Family Tension Using Mel Robbins’ Powerful ‘Let Them’ Tool
Mel Robbins explains how to radically improve family dynamics by shifting focus from controlling relatives to managing your own reactions and intentions. She introduces the “Let Them / Let Me” framework: accepting that family members won’t change (“let them”) while taking full responsibility for how you show up (“let me”). Using the metaphor of an interconnected spiderweb, she shows how one person’s behavioral shift can send calming ripples through the entire family system. Robbins also addresses challenging situations—political conflict, stepfamilies, estrangement, and aging parents—emphasizing compassion, frame of reference, and the urgency of limited time together.
Key Takeaways
Stop trying to change your family; change how you respond instead.
Robbins stresses that parents, siblings, and in-laws are unlikely to change, especially as they age. ...
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Use the ‘Let Them / Let Me’ tool to reclaim your power.
When relatives criticize, instigate, or disappoint you, saying “let them” mentally steps you out of the drama. ...
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See your family as a web where your behavior sends ripples.
Viewing family as a spiderweb helps you understand that every emotional tap—arguments, guilt, jokes, silence—shakes everyone. ...
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Use frame of reference: step into their shoes before reacting.
Instead of staying locked in your own hurt, imagine what it’s like to be the parent whose kids moved away or the sibling raised in a different era. ...
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Drop power struggles about being right, especially over politics and lifestyle.
Research shows people only consider new views when they feel heard, not attacked. ...
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In blended families, prioritize kids’ grief and need for security.
Robbins notes that divorce is a ‘hurricane’ to the family web; children didn’t choose this change and are grieving a lost life. ...
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Act now as if time with your family is limited—because it is.
Recognizing you may only have a handful of holidays left with aging parents clarifies priorities. ...
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Notable Quotes
“It only takes one person in a family to change absolutely everything—and that person is you.”
— Mel Robbins
“Your family’s not changing. They are who they are. Your power is in how you show up.”
— Mel Robbins
“You get so caught up in being upset that you never step into their frame of reference and remember this is their first time being human too.”
— Mel Robbins
“A guilt trip is like any other road trip—you get to decide if you’re getting in the car or not.”
— Mel Robbins
“If you want to win the tug-of-war in your family, drop the rope.”
— Mel Robbins
Questions Answered in This Episode
Where am I still trying to control or ‘fix’ a family member instead of using ‘let them’ and focusing on ‘let me’?
Mel Robbins explains how to radically improve family dynamics by shifting focus from controlling relatives to managing your own reactions and intentions. ...
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If I treated my family like an interconnected web, what specific behaviors would I stop feeding because they shake everyone?
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How would my choices with my parents or siblings change if I truly believed I only had ten more holidays with them?
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In my blended or extended family, whose grief or perspective have I not fully acknowledged or stepped into yet?
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What kind of daughter/son/sibling/parent do I actually want to be—and what is one concrete way I can start acting that out at the next family interaction?
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Transcript Preview
What if I told you it was possible for you to have a much better relationship with your family, whether it's your parents, or your siblings, or your in-laws, or your adult kids, that it is possible, no matter what's happened, for you to change the dynamic with anyone in your family, even somebody with a really difficult personality? Well, that's what you and I are gonna talk about today. We're gonna talk about a simple tool and a whole new approach to your family dynamics, whether they're good, whether they're bad, whether they're fun, whether they're sad, because here's what I know. The second that you are done listening to this, you're gonna have absolutely everything you need to shift how you show up, and I'm telling you, it only takes one person in a family to change absolutely everything, and after listening to this conversation today, that person that's gonna change your family is you. (clock ticking) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. It is always such an honor to be able to spend time together with you, and if you're brand new to the Mel Robbins Podcast, I wanna welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. And here's what's super cool about the conversation we're gonna have today. Because you hit play on this episode, I know something about you. I know that family is important to you, and whether or not you have a great relationship with your family or a horrible relationship with your family, whether or not you're best friends with your siblings or you barely talk to 'em, here's what I know. You are interested in ways in learning how to be more deeply connected. You want the relationship to be stronger. And I have great news. It can happen, and it can happen based on some simple things that you're gonna learn today that I learned the hard way, that I've also been researching for the last couple years, simple tools that you can use to fundamentally shift the way you think about family and the way you show up when you are dealing with your family. And everything that you're gonna learn is going to apply to absolutely everything related to family, whether it's the family group text chat that drives you bananas or that you wish was slightly different, whether it's the dynamic when y'all get together, whether it is things that's happened in the past that you can't just let go, whatever it is that's standing in your way or causing frustration or that you just wish would change, this conversation today is gonna create an entirely new possibility for you, because all it takes is one person, and today you're gonna learn that person is you. And what we're gonna talk about is so important, it has had a huge impact on my life. I truly hope you share this episode with your family. In fact, if you're gonna be driving somewhere over the holidays with them, just put this on in the car 'cause it can't go anywhere, and as you're all listening, you'll probably kinda look at each other and then look ahead and kinda nod and... 'Cause we do wish things could be better. You deserve to have more fun, and I'm gonna teach you how you can start to bring it. So, my mission today in having this conversation with you is to really help you improve your relationship with your family, because let's start with fact number one. Your family's not changing. They are who they are. You've gotta learn how to let them be who they are, but here's the cool thing. If you change your approach in terms of how you show up, the energy you bring, your mindset around your family, you are so powerful that simply changing your approach can send positive ripples through the entire family dynamic, and that will change everything over time. It's your responsibility to figure out what kinda relationship you have with your family. If you love your family, if you're having a lot of fun with your family, if your favorite time of year is to go see your family, that's fantastic, and today you're gonna learn a few things that's gonna make it even better. But if you dread seeing your family, if you are anxious about it, if you feel like you gotta brace or that somebody in your family's always instigating something... There's members of our family that are like that. They just can't help themselves. They gotta, like, pick and poke and twist and, and it's not fun. It's not fun. But I'm gonna keep hammering this point over and over. You can't change another person, because people only change when they feel like it. And you're also going to learn that the family dynamics have been in place for a very long time, but that doesn't mean they can't shift in a very positive way, because we're gonna talk about how you can use the let them theory and the laws of human behavior and the facts about how families are to positively influence any interaction. And here's how we're gonna start this conversation, because I'm not a part of your family, you're not a part of my family, but here's what I do know. All families are the same in one regard. They are an interconnected system, and so we're gonna start our conversation with a metaphor for how I think about family, and this metaphor is gonna change everything, because you're going to, perhaps for the first time, see your family and your extended family in an entirely new way. In fact, the family dynamic... And this is a really important thing to kinda zoom out and think about it, because you think about it like brothers and sisters and parents and the golden child and the favorite one, and I'm never this, and I'm the middle, and I'm a this, and I... And there's so many labels and so much history in families that you forget to zoom out and think about what actually is a family. A family is a interconnected web of people. It's a system. Like, I actually think about a spiderweb. Think about a spiderweb, and you see it in the morning and all the dew is on it and glistening. All those little strands are all the connections of family.And if you think about the center of it, that's your parents and your grandparents, and then everything flows out from there. And look, I'm not saying that the system or the web is fair, or it's right. It's just the reality. Y'all are connected, and you have been since you came into this world. And so when you make a change, it's like somebody going up to the upper right-hand corner of Charlotte's web and going tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. What happens? The whole web shakes. The dew drips off. The spider goes running around, because you're all interconnected. In fact, I write about this extensively in the Let Them Theory book. There's an entire chapter, chapter six, page 95. And let me tell you the title of the chapter that's about family, How to Love Difficult People. Now, the reason why I named the chapter about family How to Love Difficult People is because family just cuts different. I think the purpose of family in some cases is to teach you how to love people that you don't like sometimes, right? Because there are people in your family you don't like, and you may never like 'em. But guess what? You're still connected via that web, whether you talk to 'em or not. Every time there's a family group chat text and somebody texts something annoying and you roll your eyes, it's like somebody went tap, tap, tap to the web. It impacts you. So I'm gonna teach you how to accept the reality that your family's not changing. Let them. Your power is in not managing your family, or worrying about your family, or being triggered by your family. Your power is in the second part of the Let Them Theory, which is let me. Let me decide what kinda relationship I want. Let me decide what kind of daughter, or son, or father, or mother, or sister, or brother I wanna be. Because just because you got somebody that tap, tap, taps the web and is an instigator doesn't mean you have to let it affect you. It doesn't mean you have to chime in. In fact, you're gonna learn tools today that are gonna have you look at family completely differently. And since I wrote about this extensively in the Let Them Theory book, I wanna read to you a little bit about family, just so that we're on the same page about why your family can be critical and harsh, and they say things that are like, "Wha- Like, what are you doing?" You know, why your parents have to step in, or why somebody has to say, "E- Enough, enough. Could you just be nice? Could you just like, can we just have fun, please?" So family tends to be a lot harsher to your face, because they have a stake in your happiness and in your success. I mean, it's true. If you're an interconnected web and you got somebody who is just stuck, and sad, and depressed, and sending ripple waves through it, it affects everybody, because they're worried about you. And that's why people tend to be a little bit harsher than your friends are, because your happiness or your sadness affects everybody, because you're connected, which is very different than your relationship with your friends. And a lot of the time when your family cares, how do they show it? They show it by pushing you. You know, when they don't like your friends, or they think you're headed down the wrong path, or they think that you could get a better job or take better care of yourself, what do they do? They freaking tell you. I know, it's annoying. And most of the time, it's how your family shows you that they care. They want more for you, they want you to be happy, and they see all your potential that may be going to waste. However, when somebody says something to you about your life or your choices, or they're a little judgy, it crosses the line all the time, doesn't it? It doesn't feel like care. It feels like criticism. Now, here's why this cuts deeper. Your friends can give you suggestions and opinions, but when your family does, you're like, "Don't talk to me about that. I don't wanna talk about it. We need boundaries. I gotta like," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The reason why is family relationships cut deeper than any other relationships that you have. Why? Whether you talk to them or not, whether it's positive or negative, you're still connected. You're connected energetically. You're connected through the past. You're connected through everybody's expectations about the future. And knowing that people in your family are gonna have a reaction, because you're part of an interlocked web of relationships that's been in place for generations, knowing this is gonna help you navigate this better, because I'm gonna keep coming back over and over to say, your parents aren't changing. Let them be who they are. Your siblings aren't changing, and neither is the dynamic, or the past, or the favoritism, or whatever else you think is unfair or amazing. Let your siblings be who they are. I'm not saying that these expectations or that this interconnected system is right. I'm saying it's the reality. And when you accept reality and you really are able to look at things not through emotion but through facts, then you are empowered to change how you show up so that your behavior and your actions and your energy align with what you actually want. And I'm assuming that you're listening to this and you hit play because you would love to be more connected. You would love less drama. You'd love to have more fun. I mean, who wouldn't? So do I. I don't wanna spend the time that I have with my family feeling tense, or resentful, or arguing about stupid things or big things. I'd like to feel the interconnected web to be more supportive. I'd like to pull in and be excited, and that's what we're gonna talk about today. Really starting with this understanding of the larger context of the situation is gonna help you control how you show up. And so I wanna talk about changes first, okay? Everything from the web, to the dew, to the tap, tap, tap, to the way that things going on outside the web, the weather can impact it and tear it and shake it.That's the family system. You can also see that you get entangled in it, and you don't wanna be. And now, I'm gonna teach you this tool that I've been talking about a lot online and here on the podcast called the Let Them Theory. Now, if you haven't heard about the Let Them Theory, let me just tell you what it is real quick, and then we're gonna jump into how you use the Let Them Theory to navigate this web, to separate yourself from it, and how you're gonna use it to create stronger, more supportive, more fun, and loving relationships with your family. So what is the Let Them Theory? The Let Them Theory is a mindset tool that helps you stay focused on what you can control, and using the Let Them Theory, you're gonna learn that two simple words, "let them," will change your entire approach to life, because let's be honest, family can be really annoying, you've known these people for a long time, since you've been born or they've been born, and their behavior impacts you whether you like it or not. And so you're gonna find that you're going, "Let them, let them, let them, let them, let them." Because the number one rule with this mindset tool is that you can't control other people. Your power is in controlling your response to other people, and that's why you're gonna use this with your family all the time, because you're gonna start to realize that every single time you get frustrated or emotional or upset about something, the problem really isn't you. The problem is you've unknowingly given power to other people, and when it comes to family, you've given all this power to your family's drama, or your sister's emotion, or your mother's disappointment, or you've allowed your dad's politics to affect you. And when you allow other peoples' opinions or their drama or their, uh, behavior to impact you, that means other people have power over you. But here's the thing. You know that tap, tap, tap that I'm talking about? You feel that if you're entangled in the web. The Let Them Theory has two parts. The first part is let them. Let them, when you say, "Let them," you step back from the web and you're not tangled up in it, and you give space for that interconnectedness to be there, and you see it and you understand the power of it, but you separate from it. And then when you say, "Let me," you focus yourself on where you have power, which is what you say, what you do, what your energy is, and what you bring to that web. "Let me" is when you go, "Tap, tap, tap, let's have some fun. Tap, tap, tap, I'm gonna step away from this conversation." "Let me" is where you see yourself as separate and you decide when you join in, you decide what you bring to it. And that's why this theory is so revolutionary, particularly with your family, because right now, you're entangled in the web. And the reason why the Let Them Theory has changed my family dynamics and it's gonna change yours is that when you're an adult, you're not responsible for managing other peoples' emotions. You gotta let your mom be disappointed. You gotta let your stepbrother be an instigator on politics. You're not responsible for parenting them. You are responsible for your emotions and you're responsible for how you react to things. If you've had enough of the political talk, then say something. If somebody is acting like a child in an adult body, get up from the table and leave. It's not your job to try to control, fix, or manage someone else's emotions. It's their job. But when you're the parent or you're the stepparent and you're dealing with a child, it is your responsibility to help a child feel seen, heard, safe, and supported. And that's why this theory is gonna help you so much, because it's gonna help you understand inside of this very electric and energetic dynamic of emotions and history and opinions and expectations about what the family is and who should do what and how things have already gone, what is yours to manage and what isn't. When you're an adult, you're not responsible for your mother, you're not responsible for your father, you're not responsible for how your brother-in-law or your sister-in-law or anybody else shows up. You're responsible for you, so let them. And then focus on, "What do I want? Who do I wanna be?" Because the second you go, "Okay, I want my family to be more fun, I want my family to be more connected, I want my family to be more interested, I want my family to be more supportive," now you have the roadmap for how you show up. And when you show up in a positive way and you're like, "I'm not gonna get plugged into the BS, political crap that always happens, I'm not doing it," let them. That piece and that ability to step back is another version of tap, tap, tap, but you're sending a calming wave through the entire web. And that's the coolest thing about the Let Them Theory, is that you and I have spent years trying to change our family, managing them, feeling like it's your responsibility for your mom to be happy, for no one to feel guilty, for everything to go okay, for the right plates to be put out, for the centerpiece to look this way, for everybody to get the right present, for nobody's feelings to get hurt, to try to control your temper when the golden child gets all the attention and every... and the grandchildren over here are the favorites. Like, that's how we've been doing it. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. It's a whole new way to do family, and that is to see your family for who they are and let them, and then to take a step back and go, "Okay, well, what do I want?" Step one, you have to decide what kind of relationship you wanna have with your family, and you gotta take responsibility for it, and you're gonna use the Let Them Theory to stop yourself from managing other people, fixing other people, uh, from engaging in the old dynamics, and you're then going to say, "Let me," and you're gonna focus on your part in it.How do I wanna show up? How do I want to bring the fun? What is it that I want to lean into, and what am I gonna opt out of? And when you start to get very clear about that, you now have a roadmap for what's in your control, which is how you show up, how you respond, how you engage, what energy you bring, what conversations you initiate, which ones you participate in, which ones you don't. That is all in your control, and if you just stay laser-focused on that, I promise you, no matter how challenging the dynamic is or anxious you may feel, you have the power to influence everything, because you're part of the system and the web, and you are way more powerful than you think. And the more that I have focused on, "How do I just bring peace? How do I bring acceptance? How do I make everybody feel the love? How do I bring things that we can all bond over, whether it's family Olympics, or it's the puzzle we're gonna lay out, or it's a really fun dance mix?" the more things have changed. And in fact, one of my brother-in-laws said to me, like two years ago, he looked at me, like right in the face, and he said, "You know, Mel, you've really changed." And I thought, "Yes, I have," because I made a decision to. Don't expect your family to change, because your family and your relationship and how you feel when you're with family is your responsibility. But don't be surprised that when you start to change, and you get serious about what you want to feel and what you value, in terms of how you show up as a daughter or a sister or a grandchild, that everything starts to change. And that's the power of your influence. So, I'm sure you're sitting there wondering, "Okay. Well, if you were able to change not only the family dynamic, Mel, for yourself, but also so much so that somebody in your family is commenting on it, what were you like before?" I'd probably be your worst nightmare as a sister-in-law, honestly, because I'm loud, I'm opinionated, or at least I used to be this. I'm still that way, but I really temper it. I had a lot of expectations and opinions about how things should go, and my husband's family are full of amazing people who are also very opinionated. And so, I would engage in the web of energy, which involved a lot of debating, a lot of poking and twisting. Um, you know, it's almost like in every family, because there's dynamics between siblings, and then you bring in spouses and kids and grandkids, it's like the dynamic between the siblings starts to, again, ripple through the whole web. And so you've got three boys, very competitive at sports, at skiing, with each other. They're all successful, except for my husband. And my husband's a successful person. I think he's the most amazing human being on the planet. But his success is not measured in money. His success is measured in the impact he makes in the lives of the men he works with and in his work as a death doula, and in who he is as a human being, and how he shows up as a partner and as a father. And Chris comes from a family where the success is really celebrated in financial success, and that trickles all the way down through the generations. And so there's always been this kind of dynamic of competition and debating and lots of drinking at the table, uh, which would always end in tears and fighting and somebody storming off. And a lot of that changed when Chris's father died, like 14 years ago. And even though we all really like each other, and I think everybody wants to be really close, there was always this like underlying, I don't know what it is, just disconnection. And I think that's true in a lot of families, that you get together and you just really wanna get along, and then all the old energy comes up. And so, I just decided when I started getting serious about my own work on myself and being a better person and not feeling so anxious all the time or on edge all the time or insecure all the time, that as I started to try to settle my nervous system and just be more chill and be more loving and accepting and bring different energy, everything shifted, because I opted out of the debates. I walk away from conversations where somebody in the family, whether it's my family or Chris's family, they wanna stick in the knife and twist it, and a lot of times, it's kind of jokes at my husband, because I'm the breadwinner, and he's not. And I just walk away from it. I don't say anything. And that doesn't mean that I'm rolling over. It means it's not worth my time and energy. If that's what you're gonna do with your time with your family, then do it, but I'm not gonna give my time and energy to this. And as I slowly backed away from it, I noticed I wasn't affected by it. And what's interesting about that kind of form of bullying or that sort of instigating or that sort of antagonism, which always comes from a desire to be seen, it comes from a place of actually wanting to connect in a weird and toxic way, but when I pulled away from that, it... Like, when somebody doesn't have a target, it starts to disappear. When there's nobody chiming in back to you, you're talking to yourself. And a lot of the times, I think we are showing up in family in particular with old patterns and old behaviors and just kind of modeling what's always been done, and we don't mean to be hurting each other, but we are.And so, instead of looking at my family members, whether it's my kids, or it's my sibling, or it is Chris's family, as the source of how I'm gonna change this, because that's probably what you're doing, right? "If only I can get my mom to stop making me feel guilty. If only I can get my sister-in-law to stop, like, talking politics. If only I could get my parents to stop playing favorites." You're looking at someone else as the source of all power in your life, and that's how you give your power away. Other people are not responsible for your relationship with your family, you are. And when I finally realized that and started going, "Wait a minute, let them, let them be who they are, let them live their lives, let them have their opinions, let them have their emotions, let them do life however they're gonna do life," the more I said, "Let them," the better my life got and the better my family got. And the more I could see people who, for who they were, instead of getting sucked into the drama of the moment, and the more you can see the good in people, not just the small, petty stuff in the moment, because I'm not perfect. Like, I wouldn't like me as a sister-in-law based on how I used to be either. I wouldn't want somebody that competitive and that insecure and, you know, that opinionated. That wouldn't be fun, and you wouldn't want s- somebody like that either. And so I just really went to work on myself, 'cause I didn't like what it felt like to be me, and I definitely didn't like the tension and the competition and the friction that I felt in family. And it wasn't there all the time, but I knew I was a part of it. And so y- that's why I say it's your responsibility. You want more fun? You want more connection? You want more peace? It begins with you. If you wish the people in your family saw the good in you, you gotta learn how to see the good in them. If you wish your mom or your dad would stop using a guilt trip to get you to come home for the holidays or to do things the way that you wish that they would do them, then you need to see that a guilt trip is like any other road trip. You get to decide if you're getting in the car or not. Let them be disappointed. You're not their parent. They're a- an adult. When you gi- And here's the amazing thing, when you give adults the space to feel their emotions, it's kind of amazing how the emotion dissipates. When you engage, and you try to manage, and you try to wrestle people's opinions or emotions to the ground, that's when all this, like, friction stays together. There's a whole different way to do this, and it has to do with just letting people be. And the more you let people be themselves, the better your relationships get, and the more space you give to the family dynamic, the more you'll see the good in other people. And that brings me to this tool that we write about extensively in The Let Them Theory. I'm gonna turn to the page, 'cause I wanna read to you. This tool is so important. (clears throat) And I need to give credit to my buddy, Lisa Bilyeu. Lisa Bilyeu is the founder of Quest Nutrition. She hosts this show called Women of Impact. She's a good friend of mine, and she shared this tool called frame of reference. And frame of reference is a fancy way of just saying, have you even bothered to step into your parents' shoes? Have you even bothered to step into your sister-in-law's or your, uh, brother's shoes? We're so focused on our own experience and our own history that we never take the time to step into someone else's shoes and try to see the situation from their point of view, and that's what frame of reference is. The second I started to go, "Oh, wait a minute, this is my parents' first time being human too. Oh, wait a minute, what must it feel like to be a parent who loves their kid, and the kid moves far away, and you only see 'em three or four times a year? What must that be like? What's their frame of reference? Wow, all their friends have their family nearby, they don't. Of course they wanna see you. Of course they're gonna pressure you. Of course they're disappointed when they're not a priority." You know, we get so caught up in being upset or angry that Mom wants it done this way, and, "No, no, no, no, no, have you stepped into her frame of reference and thought about the fact that this is her first time being human too? It's her first time being a parent too. It's her first time being a grandparent too?" You know, when you step into a wider family dynamic and you marry into a family, you have not been there since the beginning. You don't know what it's been like for all of the siblings this whole time because you weren't there. And so kind of going let them makes you be the bigger person. It lets you see that this is a web of people, and if you wanna be a part of it, then get serious about, what are you gonna bring to the web? Is it fun? Is it peace? Is it connection? Is it interest? Is it compassion? Is it a calm demeanor? Or are you gonna bring your politics? Are you gonna bring your attitude? You gonna bring all the injury and upset you haven't worked out with the therapist? Are you gonna bring your belief that we should just be one big happy family and just put everything to the side? Because those expectations also send shockwaves through the system. And that's why I'm gonna keep on reminding you, and this is the coolest thing, you get to decide what your relationship with your family is. How cool is that?Imagine if you decided that you were going to, instead of icing everybody out, instead of being crossed-armed and, and tense about it, what if you were going to do the work? And you're gonna bring the let them theory to every family group chat, every gathering with your family, and you're gonna let your sister do her thing, you're gonna let the grandkids do their thing, and you're gonna focus on how you show up. Because one of the things that can really tear families apart are opinions, whether it's about politics, or religion, or how you should be living your life, or the person that you're dating, or it could be anything, I wanna really just unpack how you're gonna use the let them theory and this tool frame of reference to really try to understand where someone's coming from, instead of debating it. And I'm not talking about topics where somebody is denying your fundamental rights to live your life and to choose who you love and to worship whatever god you want or not. I'm talking about the petty things that we debate all the time, because the problem is that when you get into a standoff with somebody, it's not really about the thing you're talking about. It's literally a power struggle. It's about who's right. And in fact, as w- I was sitting down to tape this conversation, my dear friend Cindy stopped by the house. And Cindy is a grandmother. She has two sons. She has four granddaughters. And I was like, "Cindy, I want you to sit down in my chair, here's a mic, and tell me a little bit about what it's like with your family. What are you excited about? What are you a little nervous about?" And boy, oh, boy, I think you're gonna relate to everything Cindy had to say.
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