How To Know If Your Relationship Is Over & 6 Pieces Of Advice To Make It Work | Mel Robbins Podcast

(ticking clock) After much trepidation, I decided (beep) it. I'm going to answer this. And the truth is, I don't talk about this topic of relationships and marriage and giving advice about it all that much, because the fact is, I don't think I do know the secret to marriage. And this is kind of one of those episodes where I'm the (beep) . (laughs) And, yeah, I- I'm just gonna admit all the things that I did wrong in the hopes that you don't repeat the mistakes that I made. (instrumental music plays) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to what will be a brutally honest episode of the Mel Robbins Podcast. So first off, I'm super, super excited that you're here. My name is Mel Robbins. I'm a New York Times best-selling author and an expert on change and motivation. And since we have started this podcast, I have been flooded with questions, and I love getting all of your questions, but this one right here has stuck with me.

Hey Mel, it's Jennifer. Can you do a podcast not on marriage advice, but something about how marriage is so wacky, hard, and unusual, and worth staying the course? I went back and listened to your opening podcast and was so blown away by the exposure of what you've gone through, but also of the impact upon your marriage. And so I'm kind of blown away that your marriage existed through all of that. I feel a lot of cultural pressure and voices about leaving marriage, but not so much about staying, like maybe the pendulum has shifted generationally from, quote, "stay for the kids," to, quote, "leave to make yourself happy." But isn't there another way, another kind of perspective on the why of staying? Do you think you could talk about that? I love the show, your vibe, your honesty. It really helps. Thank you so much, Mel.

Thank you for this question. I love your vibe, and I love the question itself. And I also want to thank you for distinguishing between the request of asking for advice about marriage and relationships versus just talking about my experience of how hard and wacky having a long-term relationship can be. And the truth is, I don't talk about this topic of relationships and marriage and giving advice about it all that much, because the fact is, I don't think I do know the secret to marriage. I've been married for 26 years, but I feel like my husband Chris and I, we are still figuring out the secret to marriage. And I also worry, if I'm being perfectly honest, and I promise this would be a brutally honest episode, that if Chris and I started giving relationship and marriage advice, and we somehow held ourselves out there as the model for a marriage that works, it would blow up our own marriage. I mean, I don't know if you've ever noticed this, but it seems like every other day, there is some author or influencer that has been giving relationship advice who then announces that they're getting divorced, and I personally do not want to get divorced. But I can't stop thinking about your question, and you're not the only one who has been asking me to talk about the secret or the strategies or just some of the things that Chris and I have learned along the way after being together for 28 years and being married for 26 years. So Jennifer, after much trepidation, I decided, fuck it. I'm gonna answer this. And the first thing I want to talk about is your observation about whether or not that pendulum has shifted generationally when it comes to advice about marriage, and in particular, when marriage gets hard. And I agree with you. I think for somebody our age, and for those of you that may be new to listening to this podcast, I am 54 years old. My husband is 53 years old. We have three children who are, uh, gonna be 24, 22, and our son is about to be 18 years old. And Chris and I have been through a lot of ups and downs. And growing up, the relationship was always, "You got to stay together for the kids," and I personally think that is the world's worst advice, and a lot of the research bears out the fact that your kids know when you're miserable. And if you're staying only to tough it out for the kids, your kids are now seeing a model of a relationship that is profoundly dysfunctional. And the way that they learn about relationships is by observing you. And so I don't think you should stay for your kids, and I think that is lousy advice. And a lot of us, uh, have heard that advice for a long time. What I believe is that if you do decide that you're gonna stay in a relationship, you have to do that for yourself. And when you consider the reasons why you want to stay in a relationship, if you put yourself first, it may be that it matters to you based on your values to keep your family intact. And one of the things that I think a lot of people don't think about when times get really tough is that your marriage is actually more than just you and your partner. Your marriage is your family. It's your network of friends that you've built together. It's the, uh, history that you've created together. And so if you see value in what you've created to date, that's a really valid and important reason to work on your marriages, to work on your marriage and relationship and try to work through the challenges that have come up. But that right there is very different than staying for the kids out of guilt and shame. So stay because you want to stay. Work on it because you want to work on it based on your values and based on what you feel in your heart.And I also agree with you, Jennifer, that there has been a big swing. I mean, you see it all over social media. Leave to make yourself happy. You know, if you're unhappy in that marriage, you just walk right out that door. And I would extend this conversation that you and I are going to have today beyond marriage, because I think that the same things that make a marriage healthy and happy and go the distance are the exact same thing that makes a friendship, uh, happy and healthy and go the distance. And we live in this world, and I worry a lot about this, where people are really quick to just X people out, to ghost somebody, that, you know, I'll, I'll tell you something about being in the content space. Anytime you put up something on social media and you talk about narcissism or toxic behavior in other people, the, the post goes crazy. People love to just talk about other people being toxic, and I worry about the fact that we have gotten to a point where the pendulum has swung and people are starting to feel like, "When things get tough, I just leave. When somebody's a jerk, I just walk out. Whe- if they're the problem, then..." And the fact is, the exit door is usually not where you find the best answers. That's typically the easy out. I have found over and over and over again that the answers to a better relationship are usually in the mirror, and so what I want to say about that is this. If you're in a relationship with somebody who's abusive, leave. If you're in a relationship with somebody who's narcissistic, leave. If you're in a relationship that makes you absolutely miserable and you have tried to work through everything, you should leave and that will make you happy. But if you're leaving because you don't want to do the work, that's a problem, and that habit of bailing when things get tough, you're just going to take that right into the next relationship. And that's why I am saying it's not necessarily the answer that's going to make you happy. So, the reason why I think that it is important in a friendship or in a marriage or a relationship to stop yourself from walking out the door and just pause long enough to do the work to stay is, number one, I don't know a single person who has truly put in the work to repair a marriage or a friendship who regretted it. But I do know a ton of people who just got frustrated and got divorced and they now regret that they didn't try harder, or that they now miss friends that they ghosted or stopped talking to years ago over something stupid because they were too afraid to have the hard conversation. And so I do, based on the 28 years that I have been in a relationship with my husband, I have seen this over and over and over again. So, if you are willing to put yourself in pause and attempt to repair the marriage or the friendship, you're not going to regret that effort. Second, and I've already alluded to this, a marriage isn't just a relationship that you have with your partner. It's the community, it's the friendships and the networks that you've built. It's the history that you have together. And so when you end a marriage or a friendship, the truth is you basically blow apart all of those things. And so that's another reason why it's worth trying to work on it if you still see something for yourself inside this relationship or friendship, you know? And I think a lot about the fact that, you know, when people get divorced, I would love to think that everybody can have a modern divorce, and you can blend families and ex-spouses can be partners and everybody can be with their new partners and blended families and have holidays together, and that's how it should be if you're gonna end a marriage. But that's not the norm. And so I just want to be honest, 'cause I don't think we think through these things, that you won't have the same relationship with the sister-in-law that you love. You will not be going to, uh, your old in-laws, if you adore them, for the holidays anymore. Friends are gonna feel funky because they're gonna feel like they got to go with the one or the other in terms of your relationship, and that just is how it is right now. I wish it were different, but I promised you I'd tell you the truth. And now I want to just deliver even tougher love about whether or not you decide to end this marriage. Because the fact is, let's just say that you end this thing, right? What are you gonna do? Oh, I know exactly what you're gonna do because you've also seen this a million times. Once you get out of this marriage, you're going to be highly motivated to get in the best shape of your life, to get back out there, to get healthier, to be more brivant (ph) , to be more vibrant. Why? Well, so that you can attract somebody better. What if you were to just do that now? I mean, why not do that now for yourself? And, you know, again, I want to say, don't stay with somebody who's abusive. But if you're sitting there bitching to your girlfriends or your guy friends or just your friends in general and your family that you've become roommates and that your spouse is no more fun and you don't know who you're married to anymore, but underneath all that, you just wish it were better, you still love this person, don't just throw in the towel because you're frustrated. Do the work. That's, that's what I've learned. And, and, you know, you, you talked about the fact that in some of the beginning episodes, I shared a little bit about our story, and, you know, a lot of you already know it, so I'm not going to go into great detail. But, you know, for those of you who are new who are listening to the podcast, back in 2008, I had lost my job. We were 800 grand in y- debt because my husband's restaurant was going, uh, under. His restaurant business was really struggling. He hadn't been paid in months. We were just...Ugh, leans on the house, drinking ourselves into the ground. And I got to a point where it was easier to be angry at Chris and to just be resentful of him, and to be like, "I'm- I- I don't like you. I don't- I don't wanna be with you. Like, you fucked this up." Like, as if it wasn't partially my fault too. And I want to say something to you, if you're sitting there thinking that the grass is greener. And look, maybe the grass is, but I want you to stop and consider something. If I ever get pissed off at my husband, and I'm like, "You know what? Chris is annoying. I just can't stand this about him or that about him," or, "He's always, like, thinking about something, he doesn't talk, and he's not that fun, and he doesn't make me laugh," or bah-bah-bah-bah-bah, whatever you may bitch about. I stop and say to myself, "What's the average 50-year-old guy like?" I mean, anybody my age, sorry dudes, but any one of you that gets to the age of 50, you got shit in the closet. You got stuff that you have lied about. You've got things that you're ashamed of. You've got things that you haven't worked through. And so here I've got two options. I can either turn toward the person that I was once in love with and do the work to make it better, to grow together, and I could roll my d- or I could roll the dice, and I could end something because I'm frustrated or pissed off, or things got challenging, or whatever the situation may be, and I could literally go try to create a relationship with somebody else who, by the way, I have not seen what this person has been doing for the last 28 years. So I don't know what the hell they're telling me, whether it's the truth or not. I don't know what trauma they have buried beneath their skin. I don't know what kind of bullshit they did in their prior marriage. But if you're willing to turn toward the person that you're with now, you know at least part of the story. (laughs) And for me, it has always seemed worth it, no matter how hard things got with Chris, no matter how scary things got, no matter how much we resented and hated one another, no matter how much we were drinking, I never got to the point where I thought, "It's way better to roll the dice and try to meet someone new than to try to work it through with this person right here." And, you know, the truth is, and I'm sure this is true about you, I- I've talked about juicy peaches and embracing your juicy peachiness on this podcast, but there are days I am not a peach at all. And so when a marriage goes off the rails, when you get to the point where you're roommates, it's not just your partner's fault. And that gets to this concern that I have, that we are so quick to just cut people out of our lives, to call people toxic, to end something 'cause we're sick of it, and we haven't even done the work to try to fix it. We haven't had the harder conversation. And so, you know, that's it. I feel like it is always worth working on it. And so if you're struggling in your relationship or you're struggling in a friendship, absolutely hit the pause button. Do not spend another second bitching to your girlfriends or your guy friends about the situation, and put your time and energy into working to make it better. Because I guarantee you, you have not communicated what you're feeling clearly. You have not made requests about what you want. You have not started unpacking where things went off the rails. And the truth is, if you're willing to work on it, you can make it better. I don't care how long or how little you've been married, if you're willing to work on it, you can make it better. And I think that is the secret to a long-lasting marriage, relationship, friendship. It lasts 'cause you're willing to work on it. And that brings me to the most important caveat of all of this, and I think this is the biggest single truth about relationships. Relationships only work if both of you are willing to work on it together. This is not a one-way street. There is no halfway on this. There is no, uh, "I'm gonna fix myself and that fixes my marriage." You will never change your marriage on your end, on your own. Period, full stop. And so if you're listening to this and you have somebody that won't work on it with you, I need you to listen to the takeaways that I'm about to give you, the lessons that I've learned, actually very recently, after being married, uh, to the same person for over 26 years. These are lessons that I have learned very recently after Chris and I have been in marriage therapy for two years, and, you know, even saying marriage therapy is kind of weird, because I think about going to therapy like going to the gym, that it's a way to make something better. In fact, at this point, I have benefited so much and learned so much about my husband that I didn't even know, uh, having been married to him for the first 24 years. It's so incredible to have a third person who is not sleeping with you guys or living with you guys to weigh in on what they observe. It has been one of the greatest things that we have ever done for our relationship. I'm kicking myself for not having done it sooner. And so, you know, that's... And so what I wanna do is I wanna share with you, 'cause I'm just getting so many questions, "How did you guys go the distance? How did you make it through the challenging times? How did you do it?" The way we did it is that we were both willing to do the work. And no matter how far apart Chris and I felt or were, or how much we were strugglin- struggling in our lives or our careers or financially or with addiction or whatever it may have been, the one thing that I can say is that we were always willing to work on it.And no matter how pissed off we got with one another, or frustrated, or isolated from one another, I knew deep down that he did love me and that I loved him. And, you know, having faced bankruptcy, and having been unemployed, and having struggled to pay for groceries with three kids under the age of 10, I know that when life gets hard, it is so much easier to be frustrated and angry 'cause you're triggered than it is to be afraid. And, you know, back when the restaurant business was really struggling, I was so pissed at Chris. Like, I was just resentful. I was resentful that he wasn't successful. And he knew it. He could feel it. And that only contributed to the shame that he felt. The fact is, there are going to be years in your relationships, when it goes the distance, that are amazing, and years that completely blow, years where you feel very connected, and years where you feel like you're in your own corners. And the past couple years, um, and kind of going through the craziness that happened during the pandemic, it's been really painful, and it did some real damage to our relationship. And so, this is why, Jennifer, I'm so happy that you did not ask for marriage advice, because again, I'm gonna say, everything I'm about to share with you, these are not the secrets to the perfect marriage. I am not the expert in what your marriage should look like. I like to keep my marriage between Chris and I. In fact, there are things that Chris and I talk about with our therapist that our kids don't know. You want to know why? 'Cause it's not their fucking business, and they shouldn't know. And your kids are not your therapist, and they're not involved in your marriage, and you shouldn't be talking to them about the stuff that you're mad about related to your partner. That's terrible to do that. Work on it with your partner, because the more time you spend complaining and griping about your partner to your friends or your family or, dear God, do not do it with your kids, you need to be spending twice that amount of time talking to your spouse. See, that's why you're not connected. That's why you have problems, 'cause you're not actually talking to your spouse. So, when we first started seeing a therapist, it was in 2020, and we decided to go to therapy because we had some major things going on, um, because obviously the pandemic turned our life upside down and we were both at our wits' end and we were fighting a lot. And here's one of the first things that our therapist said to us, and it really has stuck with me, and I think that this framework will really work for... This framework will be really helpful for you too. He observed that Chris and I are excellent at the transactional aspects of life. We can cook dinner together, we can sync up our calendars, we can run errands, we can do projects around the house, we're really great at parenting together. We get the day-to-day stuff done. We love spending time as a family. We have meaningful work that we feel connected to. But here's what happened. Somewhere during the past probably five to eight years, we got so swept out... We got so swept up in the doing that we stopped being connected. And the fact is, I was very resentful that he wasn't successful in his career. At least in the beginning I was really resentful. And I can see that my resentment made me turn on him, and it made me turn on him when he needed me most. Like, I stopped believing that he would be able to save that business. And so I can see, and I will admit, and this is kind of one of those episodes where I'm the asshole (laughs) and, yeah, I- I'm just gonna admit all the things that I did wrong in the hopes that you don't repeat the mistakes that I made, I can see that I was engaged in what I've seen people call the quiet quitting, and for me it was the quiet quitting of a marriage. And you might not even be conscious to this. You might be doing this in your job. You might be doing this in your family. You know, when people use the term, "We've become roommates," I think that what you're talking about is that you're in a relationship where one of you is quietly quitting. You're doing the bare minimum. Your resentment and griping is building. Maybe you saw your parents doing it, enduring something. And for Chris and I, in all of the doing, we lost that deep emotional connection to one another that we had worked so hard to build over the years, and resentment, for me, had started to really come in. And he could feel it. And the emotional connection that you have, that's glue for your relationship. When it becomes really transactional, there will be resentment, and there was resentment on Chris's side too. And that emotional connection is what was missing for Chris and I. The love was there underneath it all, but there was this, like, mid-layer that had, that had built up that made us really lose a connection to one another, and I remember this particular moment. It was right around... Right before we went to therapy, a really close friend of ours, uh, saw us at a, uh, like a dinner that friends of ours had just invited a bunch of us over for a barbecue, and she called me the next day and she said, "Is Chris okay?" And I said, "Yeah, I think Chris is fine. Why?" And she said, "Something's wrong with him, Mel." And I said, "What do you mean?" And she said-... there's just something missing, like the light behind his eyes is gone. There's normally this, like, magnetic connection between the two of you, and I haven't seen the two of you in a couple years, but it's just ... Something's wrong." And she was right. What was wrong was, number one, we were missing the connection. We were disconnected. And there were a lot of other things wrong too, one of which I would come to learn is that Chris was really struggling with depression. And so that brings me to, well, what do you do? How do you get the connection back? Mel, if I'm gonna hit the pause button and before I just shove the middle finger in the air and say, "You're the problem. I'm outta here. I'm gonna be happy. I'm leaving. I'm done," what do I want you to stop and think about before you do that? Well, there are six things that you gotta do, in my personal opinion, that you can do and that do work if both of you are willing to work on it. And I gotta take a quick pause for a word from our sponsors, and when we come back, we're gonna go step by step through these six things that I did in my marriage that I know will probably help you in your marriage and friendships too. Welcome back. It's Mel, and we're talking about what I've learned in the last couple years about marriage. And my husband and I, as you now know, have been married for 26 years. We've been together for 28 years. We started, uh, seeing a marriage counselor, a therapist, whatever you call him. He's amazing. Dr. Cooper, I love this man. Um, thank you, Dr. Cooper, if you're listening. I wanna share with you kinda six observations that I have from my personal experience about why it matters, why it's important to work on it, and what you need to do if you do want to repair a relationship that's broken or you wanna improve and continue to grow together. So the first thing is, mm-mm, you have to be intentional and say to yourself, "I am gonna turn this around. I'm gonna make it better." Because there's no half-assing your marriage. You have to decide to make it better. Wishing it were better is what you're already doing, and it's very different than committing to make it better. Nothing in life is gonna change until you make a decision to change it, and then you have to schedule in what you're doing with your partner to change it. And see, I look at marriage as this sort of, like, living thing. It's like a container in which you and your partner either grow, or you wither and dry. I know that sounds, like, brutal and dramatic, but it's true. And if your marriage or your friendship matters to you, make it a fucking priority. It's really simple. If you want anything to grow, I mean, this is common sense. You gotta care for it. You have to tend to it. You gotta water it with kindness, with interest, with support. You have to tend to both your and your partner's ongoing growth. I mean, it's critical to your marriage. And I've said this a bazillion times, and I'm gonna keep reminding you. Our marriage is not perfect. It's not the ideal. It is ideal for us. And I've already shared with you that there were years that are wonderful, where we were wonderful to each other, where we were together all the time and investing in each other's growth and growing together, and then there were those years that sucked. We caused each other a lot of pain. And I want you to view the painful stuff in a relationship like weeds in a garden. Over time, if you're not careful, those weeds, they fucking take over. So do not ignore the little shitty stuff, 'cause weeds, they start out as this teeny little thing and then have you ever noticed you, like, go away from your garden for a couple days and it rains and then the sun comes out and these teeny little weeds are, like, five feet tall? That's the little shitty irritating stuff. Talk about it. Ask for what you need. Clear the air. Do not harbor resentment. And I'm telling you, therapy, if you can afford it, get yourself to therapy. It is a gift. You know, Chris and I were already talking to an individual therapist, but that's not working on your marriage, by the way. That's working on yourself. And you should work on yourself. But it wasn't until we came together and made it a priority that things really started to shift. And one of the things that I love about talking to a therapist is that, for me, I get more out of a 45-minute call with a therapist... We have never met our therapist in person. We do the entire thing virtually. But hitting the pause button every other week to truly unpack something that happened between the two of us, listen to one another. That's, that's the hard part for me I'm learning, to learn about one another. This is better than any damn date night could ever be, because we're not just, like, going out and having time alone. We're actually investing in our growth. That's very different than having a steak and a bottle of wine. Like, we're digging out the weeds in our relationship so that things can blossom and bloom so that when we do go out for that meal and, and, you know, that night out, it's actually more than just a dinner date. It's something that has real depth to it. So for you, you know, if you can't afford therapy, I totally get it, but, uh, I totally understand. I have been in that place in my life. There are free online courses you can take together. There are books that you could read together. In fact, the episode that we just released, Dr. Nicole LePera, her brand-new workbook, How to Meet Yourself, is a guided journey through knowing yourself better. You could use that. $25. Use (laughs) that to make your marriage better. So there are things that you can do if you get intentional.So, number two. This is also something that is critical. It seems like common sense, but you gotta do it. You gotta develop a genuine sense of interest again in the person. You were interested when you first met them. Remember that? But I bet along the way, you started to decide, "Oh, I know everything I know about this stupid person. Ugh, there they go again." Eye roll. Well, in therapy, I learned a lot about Chris that I didn't know, and I'm gonna say it again. In therapy, I learned a lot about my husband that I didn't know, and w- I'm talking 24 years into marriage, things that I didn't know. I'm not talking about deep, dark secrets. I'm talking about the way that his thoughts and his feelings impact him. You know, I may... I... And... Like, for example, I had no idea how traumatized Chris was by his childhood, because it wasn't like anything horrific happened to him, and his mom is one of my closest friends, but he was a latchkey kid. His parents were always working. His brothers were way older. Nobody was ever around, and so it was this sort of slow death march of isolation and feeling constantly alone. His experience was, "When I get home, nobody's there. When I play baseball, nobody shows up. That if I ask for something, I get teased. Nobody listens." So he stopped asking. You know, in fact, he stopped asking to such a degree that he used to have a nickname in his family. When he was little, you know what they called my husband? The Monument. You wanna know why? Because he didn't talk for two years, and everybody laughs about it. It was like some big joke, and the truth is, it's actually really sad. I mean, they laughed about it 'cause nobody knew any better, and because he was just a little kid that felt like he was unseen and un- and wasn't worthy of love. His needs didn't matter. He didn't know how to ask or... It just shut him down even more. And so I learned that part of the reason why he never asked for anything is because his experience growing up is that nobody gave a shit, and that helped me go from being annoyed at how quiet he is to really wanting to help support him, because the fact is, he isn't the most effusive person. He's not the hardy har har guy. He's a deep thinker. And being interested, yes, it means be interested in somebody's hobbies, be interested in what happened to them, be interested in what they're saying, but it also means be interested in learning more about them as a human being, and we're all guilty of assuming we know someone just because we've known them for a long time. So starting today, here's how you can apply this. Assume, starting today, that you don't know a lot about the person that you're with, that there's a whole part of them to discover. And I'm not talking about some deep, dark secret. I'm just talking about how they feel, how their childhood impacted them. You know, just think about yourself for a minute. When I think about how much I've changed, my God, in the last four years, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, I've lived that in my own mind and body. Unless you talk about it and listen to each other, you're not gonna know that. I can give you another example of how little we know about each other. So when I was hosting (laughs) this daytime talk show, we did an episode where Chris was on, and there was this, uh, like, marriage expert relationship person, and (laughs) Chris revealed on national television that when it comes to being intimate, he prefers to have sex in the morning. I had been married to the guy for 22 years. I had no idea (laughs) that's, uh, that's what he preferred. So you're not going to really get connected to someone unless you're interested in learning more about them. So ask more questions, be more curious, and that interest also means be loud and celebratory. I've been working on this. I mean, Chris, as he's leading his men's retreat called Souldary, I'm cheering for him. As he is pursuing a master's in spiritual psychology, I am rooting for him. As he is studying and getting a certificate to be a death doula, I am, like, clearing the schedule, making sure he's got time to do that. As he is pursuing a certification to do integration therapy for the new psychedelic modalities, I'm, like, all in. Him feeling supported and celebrated, that makes him know that I'm not only interested, but that I love him enough to be supportive in the things that he wants to do. And of course, he is cheering loud for me. And this isn't just obvious. This is also researched. Celebrating and sharing wins is critical. It's probably one of the reasons why you're roommates. You need to start pointing out what's going right instead of griping about the shit that's going wrong. Researchers from UCLA discovered that the single most crucial factor in tightening or destroying a bond that you have with your partner is how you react to good news in one another's lives. How you react to good news, based on research, way more important than how you react to any bad news, and here's why. You see, researchers found that celebrating your partner gives your partner an emotional lift, whereas playing down big news, like, "Oh, that's okay. That's okay," it leaves a lasting chill. And so you can start implementing that practice immediately. The next time your partner has something good happen, big or small, celebrate that shit. Show them how proud you are. Give 'em a high five. Hug them. And if they don't have something amazing going on, freaking call it out. "Thank you for taking the dog out. Thank you for doing this." The small things really matter, because when they're ignored, those small things become weeds and resentment that grow and that separate the two of you.Now, the third thing, we did an entire episode on this. I call it get on the fun bus. I'm serious. In therapy, one thing that I said over and over to Chris is this. Our life is too serious, man. I am so sick and tired of talking about all the serious shit. I am tired of the problems. I am tired of just feeling like life is a grind. We need to have more fucking fun. And the thing about fun, and we talked about this on the episode about having fun with your family around the holidays, is you're not having fun unless you plan to have fun. I think we all make the mistake of thinking that, "Oh, fun has to be spontaneous." No. When you were little, your parents planned all the fun shit you did, and so you gotta get serious about inserting fun again. In fact, I want to share a story with you. This is how important this is and how this simple concept infuses a dead relationship with new energy. It infuses that roommate syndrome that you may be feeling with this new rhythm and fun that can happen. You know, instead of that slow quitting, you can pick up the fun again and start to reinvest in each other. And I'm telling you right now, the more that you can bring fun back into your relationship, just like you did when you were dating in the beginning. Remember those days? There's a reason why dating is fun, because you're planning fun things to do. Just this past weekend, we had flown from Southern Vermont to Northern California to go to a business meeting, and we had 90 minutes before we had to get to the start of this business meeting, and as we're driving from the San Francisco airport, I'm like, "Oh my God, have you ever seen the Redwood Forest? I think Muir Woods is right here." Neither one of us had never been there. So we pull off the highway, it is 4:15 at night, the Muir Woods National Forest is closing in 45 minutes. There is a dark, looming rain crowd- cloud coming, and it looks like it's about to rain horizontally. We drive straight to Muir Woods with 30 minutes to spare. We were the only ones there. It was so fun. And there were this dark cloudy sky, so it felt like we were in a Hobbit movie. We hadn't planned it. It was so fun and it reminded me, we need to do more of that. So the fastest way to create more energy, go see a great movie, go exercise or hike together, take dancing lessons, cook something new, check out a concert, head to a theme park, ride a rollercoaster, go skinny dipping. It doesn't matter what you do. Do something that you used to do when you were dating. Just make it fun. And what if your partner doesn't want to do any of these fun things? Total bump on the log. All right, well, when we come back, I have somebody who's struggling with that, and we're going to hear her question next. All right, welcome back. Uh, I'm Mel Robbins, and we're talking about the things that I have learned after being married for 26 years, and, uh, being in and working with a marriage therapist with my husband for the past two years. And so we've covered a couple of them, and now I want to address a question that I am getting a lot, and this one comes from a listener named Jen.