The Neuroscience Of Meditation - Steven Laureys | Modern Wisdom Podcast 318

Sometimes I, I hear from colleagues, like, "We've got it all explained." And, and nothing is, is further from the truth. We don't understand how from something material, an object like this, something immaterial, thoughts, perceptions, emotions, arise.

(wind blowing) Why are you studying something as fluffy as meditation as a neuroscientist?

(laughs) It's a very good first question. Actually, I never, ever thought I would be giving a podcast interview like this one on a subject that I considered indeed as fluffy, esoteric, whatever, um, definitely not evidence-based. Uh, remember a journalist, uh, as a medical doctor, uh, specializing in the study of consciousness and the damaged brain, I did my PhD thesis, and that was in 2010. Uh, shortly after, a journalist asked me, "Well, what do you think, uh, about mindfulness?" And I remember at the time, that's the scientist in me checking quickly, well, what's been published? And I wasn't convinced. So I, I, I really, um ... a lot has happened since then, uh, and here I am now as a neurologist, uh, prescribing, uh, meditation in my consultation as a scientist studying, um, what's happening in, in the mind of, of, uh, these guys who are experts in meditation. Also personally, I think I, I enjoyed the benefits, even if definitely I'm not a, a Zen master at all.

Why? Why? What's drawn you to this interest?

Well, uh, as, as is often the case, I think, and I also see it in, in, in the patients, uh, I see in the outpatient clinic, it was a personal crisis. So, um, we ... the details are in the book, but very shortly, uh, 2012, um, I suddenly was, uh, dad alone with the three young kids. Um, and not feeling well, uh, feeling anxious about how I would deal with that, feeling also guilty, how could this happen, you know? You have this little voice in your head, probably sounds familiar. And so, of course, you can't change the past and you're worrying about the future, and, uh, then other things are, uh, happening. I was smoking a lot, I was drinking. The psychiatrist prescribed me sleeping pills, antidepressants. And it was, it was clear that this wasn't the inspiring dad I wanted to be. So I started doing yoga. Um, but then it was, um, meeting a Buddhist monk in Paris where I gave a TEDx 2013 about my area of expertise, which is, uh, the damaged brain and changes in consciousness. And Matthieu Ricard, um, translator of the Dalai Lama, talked about his area of expertise, meditation, compassion. And I still don't know why, but, uh, very quickly, uh, we, we got along well. And he said, well ... obviously, I, I, I, he felt I, I wasn't, uh, well, and said, "Come with me. I'm, I'm going on this retreat." And, uh, that was the first retreat organized by Mind and Life Europe, a beautiful, um, German monastery. And that was for me a new world. Um, and so I said to him, "Well, you come to my lab in Belgium, Liège, as a guinea pig." And, and so it happened. And, and yeah, a new area of research, uh, started.